assassination

[mystic gate]

hey so ikinda feel like flag is different in assa than sub is it fine to not reach 30 stack ?

[hollow river]

Yeah usually

[violet hemlock]

Ye sin has a hard time generating and spending 30 cps

[hollow river]

If you’re running mfd you should be getting close

[violet hemlock]

wait did u write SoD instead of should... ooh no the tier has lasted too long

[hollow river]

Phone autocorrect

[peak bobcat]

With MFD you normally get around 26-27 no lust

[violet hemlock]

why is phone autocorrecting to SoD... thats also erm....

[hollow river]

You can get 28 pretty consistently

[hollow river]

Swipe to text as well

[mystic gate]

yea tried it on dummy but its does go on nerv since i played sub a lot

[hollow river]

I swiped S-O-D too directly instead of s-h-o-u-l-d

[hollow river]

You should get 28-30 somewhat consistently with vendetta

[mystic gate]

cool ty

[mystic gate]

but what about the tier set tho are we goin to still use mfd ?

[violet hemlock]

nope we arent gonna run venth either

[mystic gate]

waiiittt goin nightfae ?

[spice spire]

This is in the pins.
But if you run venthyr you’ll be locked into MFD.

Early on, venthyr is fine, but other covenants gain with tier set

[hollow river]

Too many necro advocate CFs

[spice spire]

I didn’t even advocate Necro there

[hollow river]

But you would’ve if given the chance!

[gusty mirage]

that's why it's stinky in here now

[hollow river]

[gusty mirage]

[mystic gate]

noooo venth goin to be fine till the end

[slow marsh]

I played some necro for some heroic bosses this week to brush up

[spice spire]

Nah I try to provide the whole picture of what’s best for everyone. My decisions aren’t always what’s best

But I don’t give my personal decisions as gospel either - numbers talk

[drifting cloud]

(but we ignore those)

[simple rivet]

nec is fun (:

[gusty mirage]

his personal decisions or numbers?

[drifting cloud]

why not both

[gusty mirage]

[spice spire]

Real

Like you ignore my personal decision to love you

[glass tulip]

fun does not equal good, that's why we still have outlaw players

[strange python]

Kinda surprised how close all the specs look next tier (enhance and Boomie aside)

Sin is only marginally behind sub but is like 10 places lower because everything's so close

[limber lion]

What kind of list are you looking at?

[bleak sky]

tier lists

[strange python]

Someone in my guild threw up a general sim list

I mean Sims are Sims but still interesting

And obviously a lot of classes aren't done and will be improved, but not like I have anything else to do/look at with this game for the last 2 months

[limber lion]

Yeah for sure :P

[viscid spear]

[limber lion]

Can you link the sheet?

[strange python]

Uhh. Yeah lemme try to find it. It's just a screen grab

[limber lion]

Yeh, usually simc posts a list when a tier releases but I don't think they've done one yet

or I'm just blind

could very well be the latter

[strange python]

It looks like the simc one, could be an early build that's not public yet

[balmy condor]

theres also a lot of random bullshit ones going around

that ones seems kinda legit

[strange python]

It, at the very least, looks right for sin/sub/enhance

[balmy condor]

at least rogue number wise

[limber lion]

That looks pretty good yeah

[bleak sky]

warrior seems off no?

fury at least

[limber lion]

I wouldn't know

[strange python]

Too high or low?

[limber lion]

I'm a blind rogue player

[bleak sky]

low

[limber lion]

I only know rogue numbers

[bleak sky]

same with frost dk

[strange python]

I wouldn't doubt that some classes aren't fully updated yet

Warlocks are famously heinous at updating their shit

Anyways, assuming this is even remotely close to accurate, it's interesting how close the majority are. Obvious outliers aside

[spice spire]

https://tenor.com/view/crying-jessie-pinkman-breaking-bad-he-cant-keep-getting-away-with-it-gif-5612942

Every time I see boomkin numbers

[glass tulip]

That's sv hunter propaganda

[strange python]

We had four boomies, three rerolled because "Boomie is dead"

[glass tulip]

also shaman over 18k

[strange python]

I think this was before the SV set nerf fwiw

[spice spire]

Shaman is gaming rn

[strange python]

I would say I'm sad that sin is going from great back to mid table, but a lot of the 9.2 fights seem pretty good for sin so far

[glass tulip]

we'll perform better than them anyway

[lone wren]

Sin will still be very solid, great prog spec. Fantastic boss damage

[glass tulip]

thats all we do

big boss dam and cloak

[bleak sky]

that's me on 9.2

but || resto ||

[gusty mirage]

where's feral?

[strange python]

Gotta imagine sub is the better option until at least 4pc

[strange python]

Blizzard deleted it?

With the 4set nerf

[gusty mirage]

poor kitties

[strange python]

The ninja nerf was delwte

[gusty mirage]

[drifting cloud]

did surv have a number before the set fixes?

Im gonna assume no

[limber lion]

high.

very high.

[vestal wren]

it has my tier profile 👀 and i think thats not even baseline in simc

[strange python]

Wonder who put this together/where they grabbed it from

I'm assuming it's not quite accurate, but it looks kinda close

[vestal wren]

it has a high error margin likely

[brave moth]

Is there gonna be patch changes we dont know about yet tommrorrow on american servers?

[vestal wren]

nobody knows

its impossible to predict patch changes nobody knows about

[ashen scroll]

Frost beating arcane and fire looks weird af too

[cerulean nest]

with the better energy regen rate with full 4p etc. should I consider going orc instead of belf lol

[brave moth]

Belf 15 energy anyway pretty useles, i play belf cuz it looks better.

[limber lion]

Why stop there

just go Mechagnome

or Void Elf

[strange python]

Pretty sure frost was the second highest simming spec in the game in 9.1. Sims won't translate directly to live.

[limber lion]

[cerulean nest]

you know id be mechagnome if I could lmao

[limber lion]

cross faction raiding

ez

[alpine latch]

We need what, a timed 18/untimed 19 next week to go into 9.2 with a +15 key?

[spice spire]

Unsure on exact numbers

If it’s the same as last tier, yes

But 20 is safe area

[alpine latch]

Will Lt's still be there next week?

Or do they get removed during pre-season?

[spice spire]

Yes they’re there next week

[limber lion]

Lt's?

Is this a deez nuts joke?

[bleak sky]

no

it's liutenants from M+

[alpine latch]

lieutenant is a hard word to spell

[bleak sky]

varruth, fire guy, frost guy, soggy

[alpine latch]

And my confidence was shaky on it

lol

[limber lion]

Ah right :P

[gusty mirage]

that and sergeant

pronounced like "sarge" but ser

[spice spire]

Whatever, I knew what you were saying

[alpine latch]

❤️

[spice spire]

Not here to bully spelling errors, as many as I’ve made with autocorrect

[tight ginkgo]

ez hack for lieutenant is "lie u ten ants"

my 6th grade english teacher was goated

[glass tulip]

not even true by a long shot lol

I would die if I had to wait for energy for garrote in my opener

[strange python]

You technically do have to wait cause it's a global ;)

Makes flag feel better in general though

[glass tulip]

monkey brain press button go flash

[radiant gale]

Have they said if it's just Cosmic Flux to go from rank 6 > 7 or if we need soul ash and cinders too?

[obtuse robin]

did the podcast start yet i dont hear anything

[spice spire]

Yes, it’s been going for over an hour

If you are having issues, listen on one of the streams, it’s pinned

[agile geode]

why not next exp sbs baseline

[spice spire]

Because it’s still bugged

I wish tho

Gonna miss my boy

[autumn prism]

what lego is looking spicy going into 9.2 ?

[slow marsh]

Tiny Toxic Blade

[bleak sky]

mawsworn rat

[slow marsh]

Is it tho?

inb4 jailer fight just has a shit ton of rats randomly spawning

[spice spire]

Yes

[slow marsh]

how

[spice spire]

I mean first and foremost.
Exsanguinate

[slow marsh]

I thought they said they fixed that, it just doesn't snapshot

[spice spire]

afaik only with the 4p, not the talent

[slow marsh]

oh who cares about the talent tho

Hopefully that thing is gone forever

[honest vale]

we changing up stat priority with dom sockets leaving?

[violet hemlock]

less crit

sim yo self

[spice spire]

Still gonna be more haste/crit but not as crit focused for raid, yeah.
Always sim upgrades, blah blah blah

[slow marsh]

mastery stonks

[glass tulip]

2000 cosmic flux iirc

And that's it

[radiant gale]

Gang gang

[lone wren]

No way it's useless. It lines up with every vendetta (at least with current set up) and you use it for faster pooling before you start your burst. In the opener you use it right before starting your opener burst. It's actually so useful.

[bleak sky]

it's not that big

[hollow river]

Yeah better to hit it outside vendetta I feel like too, whenever you’re starved

Passive belf crit or w/e likely bigger than it though

[spice spire]

It is

It’s literally, do I have an empty global (usually means you need energy) hey I pressed it

Also it’s an AoE purge for the slimes in PF

Or if someone doesn’t kick the shields on the bugs in Mists

[gusty mirage]

y'all ever stop and think of how cool airplanes are?

[bleak sky]

sometimes

[woven ruin]

I like turtles...

[gusty mirage]

🐢

oh

@ember mural look its a spurs fan

[candid badger]

anyone know what the ideal cov/legendary set up is going to be for the first 5 weeks before tier set and double legendary? haven’t had much time to look into it yet

[bleak sky]

[gusty mirage]

yep, whispyr simmed it. It's in his sims spreadsheet

https://bit.ly/3yX1GQc

[ember mural]

https://tenor.com/view/lads-its-tottenham-tottenham-hotspur-tottenham-spurs-roy-keane-gif-18914644

[candid badger]

thank you!

[gusty mirage]

[slow marsh]

[steep sundial]

do I use the Sylvanas dagger always in off-hand no matter if the ilvl is higher than the other dagger?

[slow marsh]

what does sim say

[steep sundial]

I don't have it yet maybe never will lol just asking because a guy said me this and i was wondering why he had his higher ilvl sylvanas dagger in the off-hand

[slow marsh]

was he outlaw

[steep sundial]

assa

[slow marsh]

then he was trolling

[steep sundial]

oh, okay 😄

[alpine latch]

Is there a plater addon that shows what can be dispelled by BEs?

I should probably look for that

That might be something good to have now that I'm back on Horde side

[slow marsh]

cev's plater does

[alpine latch]

Does it?

[spice spire]

Yes

[alpine latch]

I should have it then, perfect

I haven't ran many keys as a BE.

It's been less than a week since I've been back

[slow marsh]

It just shows up as a blue icon on the right so you'll know, similar to enrage effects

[spice spire]

No worries

[alpine latch]

Back when I was on A52 I wasn't using Cev's plater. IDK who's I was

Now I'm using that with a few small mods

[brazen zodiac]

good morning

[pale knot]

anyone got some good plater profile they could share ?=o

[bleak sky]

!cev

[pure moth]

https://wago.io/gf0Dg_Ujr

[cerulean nest]

im having second thoughts about sub now

ugh

it's 9.1 all over again

[bleak sky]

play whatever makes you happy

[glass tulip]

except 9.0 NF rogue

dont be gaslit in the past

like I was

[spice spire]

Is that the ninjbreadman?

[glass tulip]

Not nearly as tasty

[brazen zodiac]

dont play assassination tho i heard its suuuuper bad

[hollow river]

It’s terrible

Down galacticly

[brazen zodiac]

i hear if you even change your spec to assassination ur computer explodes

[spice spire]

Can confirm

But I do it anyway

[hollow river]

Quake is on his 5th computer

[spice spire]

Today

[hollow river]

He just won’t give up

Dude’s loaded

[brazen zodiac]

make that 6th i just heard another go

[limber lion]

won't happen if you never have to change to it

[agile geode]

[cerulean nest]

see im a sin boy by nature

but the black powder

but the kyrian dam

but the m+ potential

both are appealing in different ways

[bleak sky]

so you time your 25s as sin and after that go sub

[alpine latch]

Well guys, I got my portals goal done. I'm 4 shy of 2400

And I can't muster up the giving a fuck to hit it

Sad day...

[glass tulip]

either way well done pal

the portals are very nice to have

[alpine latch]

Yeah, it's honestly great

[bleak sky]

ye portals are fun

[paper nacelle]

still got next week right?

[alpine latch]

My original goal was 2200, then 2300, then all portals + 2400

I got close

I need the time to just relax before next tier anyway

Although with Phial getting nerfed IDK how hard I'm pushing to grind that out. It's going to be a weird tier... lol

[clear finch]

You sound like me, Palm lol. I made it to 2500 and finally took a break. The goal line was originally 2100 🤣

[alpine latch]

I don't even necessarily care about m+, but my friends do

And they're the reason I still play

So I figured I might as well get decent at it so they want to play with me still

lol

[hollow river]

is there 3 agi daggers from new raid? lol

[glass tulip]

i only knew of 2 but rygelon is end boss lvl so thats the only one we really want

[alpine latch]

I didn't realize there was 2

lol

My guild won't be AotC for 4-6 weeks

So I'm not rushing to learn all of the raid stuff

[hollow river]

i see 2 278 daggers

lihuvim and skolex

unless one of the is incorrect and meant to be int dagger but

this is from my loot sheet on readycheck.io

[glass tulip]

yep

3 agi

[limber lion]

The high ilvl dagger was added after the fact.

Because everyone kept complaining about it.

[glass tulip]

something about making it fair for everyone to have boost ilvl weapons

since that was originally the only one left out or something

[hollow river]

i mean

[limber lion]

It's not uncommon though.

[hollow river]

it's pretty sick there's 3 daggers

since we're the only class that can get them

[limber lion]

Previously there has been weapons that didn't have a higher ilvl variant.

[hollow river]

and the two low ilvl ones are crit/haste crit/vers

that's comfy

[thin trout]

okay I underestimated the set bonus for sin - hotdamn ~1 min vendetta/flaggelation is crazy

[bleak sky]

we're not running flag

[thin trout]

also 2-3 targets with suberfuge and set bonus also sweet

plz no night fae

😢 i never played night fae

[bleak sky]

guess what

[thin trout]

nooooooooo

yolo i'll be the boomer that will be like back in my day we used to play venthyr

[carmine dawn]

ponys can use flag

actually

[thin trout]

ty

[bleak sky]

jake why are you not jake

[carmine dawn]

#off-topic message @bleak sky

[bleak sky]

[carmine dawn]

[abstract flicker]

i have 250 ilvl equipped and playing zoldyack in m+ still struggle to get over 10k overall dps? am i shit or this is normal as assa?

19-22 keys almost

[bleak sky]

too many variables to say anything about that

[abstract flicker]

i mean if there plenty of people doing 12k+ in same keylvl i am doing some things wrong for sure

[zinc frost]

Could also be how many your tank is pulling etc

[winter vapor]

are you playing Necro then if your using zold?

[abstract flicker]

no venthyr

[hollow river]

[winter vapor]

theres one of your issues

I've been there (for a very long time) obedience is way better for venth

[hollow river]

From what I remember it’s pretty even

[violet hemlock]

dmg is too dependant on other shit to know if ur doing good or bad how u tell if ur doing good is how easily ur team times a key lvl

[hollow river]

Obedience was just a better overall choice for m+/raid

[winter vapor]

well, I think it feels better personally, and my numbers went up quite a notch when i started using it

so it;s anecdotal but thats my 2c

(my M+ group blames mage tower so )

I will caveat to say I dont think i've hit 10k very often, so don't take my word for it

[carmine dawn]

blames mage tower for what

[winter vapor]

for learning to press buttons

I was being carried for a good while in m+

[hollow river]

Until you start failing keys because of dps I wouldn’t worry about it as much

Rogues job in keys is typically prio damage and boss damage. People tend to worry about overall damage on the meters too much.

[abstract flicker]

dmg isnt the problem most of the time, if we fail keys we failed some other shit mechanics etc

[hollow river]

Mhmm

[abstract flicker]

yeah thats my point

im stressed about the other too doing 11k+ and me sitting there with nearly 10k

[winter vapor]

personally I feel Obe gives us more priority damage, but again its an opinion

[hollow river]

If you have 2 aoe blasters in your group your prio is kinda needed over more aoe like if you went necro

That’s just how it’s going to look 90% of the time as a rogue friend

[abstract flicker]

im ok with that if thats the case for all of us

topping the mete on bosses is fine for me 😄

[hollow river]

A lot of other classes use burst CDs on aoe trash which gives them higher overall damage

I’m not going to say you couldn’t be doing a bit more damage, or if you could be

Too many variables like group comp, dungeon route, key level, mistakes from anyone in the group that throw a wrench in the works etc etc

[brave moth]

Will we get all the 9.2 patch notes tommrow as it launches in America?

[limber lion]

We already have.

[brave moth]

When?

[limber lion]

4 days ago.

https://www.wowhead.com/news/official-shadowlands-9-2-eternitys-end-patch-notes-325994

[vast plover]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/assassination-rogue

[pallid bough]

So'leah's Tech? 👀

[limber lion]

So'leah was nerfed just recently.

Probably bad now.

[spice spire]

Generic stat stick that was also pre nerf

[limber lion]

Raid trinkets still don't work.

[pallid bough]

rip

[pallid bough]

wdym bro

use the 5 min on use vers trinket

[limber lion]

as in they are not implemented in simc yet.

[pallid bough]

I know

I was jk

[limber lion]

Or maybe they are now, but weren't a week or so ago when the sims were made

yeh

The vers trinket is probably busted

[pallid bough]

I havent been paying attention to this discord tbh

I have been stunlocked by Lost Ark

but 1340 now, so just chilling

[limber lion]

wtf

[pallid bough]

anyways dont wanna derail this convo into lost ark

but yeah Pong told me that the 5 min vers trinket is big

[limber lion]

just created a new char on euw because euc is aids

but yeah

the trinket looks pretty poggie

[pallid bough]

since it can be used with no ICD right?

[limber lion]

especially on fights around 5:30-6 minutes

[pallid bough]

well that too yyeah

[limber lion]

oh I don't know about that

[pallid bough]

Jailer seems like a big fight

yeah

[limber lion]

and that doesn't really change anything

[pallid bough]

long fight*

[limber lion]

such a long cooldown just means that it has a shit ton of power when you press it

[pallid bough]

that trinket would have been

3 uses

in sylv

[limber lion]

So fights which end right after will push the trinket to sick limits

[pallid bough]

yeah

really big

[thorn sierra]

does the dungeon loot upgrade tmw to the higher it lvl?

[spice spire]

No, 3/1

[marble hemlock]

its worse than gland now

[limber lion]

gg

[marble hemlock]

apaprently the vers trinket is kinda shit for necro too

[limber lion]

That sounds so scuffed

Oh well, I'll be Night Fae whenever I get the trinket anyways

[umbral rapids]

do you only get the buff at the end of the channel?

[marble hemlock]

inb4 they change it so using the trinket randomly blinks you in a direction and uses your soulshape CD

[umbral rapids]

i would love to see that ngl

[marble hemlock]

nah, you get it when you use it, but you have to manually cancel your fleshcraft, and it means youre not getting the actual shield benefit of it

[umbral rapids]

all your ranged randomly soulshaping

yeah it's awkward

[marble hemlock]

you also lose the ability to use it for msth like marileth soulbind passive etc.

[umbral rapids]

but i guess you can click and cancel the channel

it's a little dumb yeah

[marble hemlock]

cant use it properly as defensive utility, as youll auto-use it when you wanna use your DPS trinket

its pretty weird

[upbeat needle]

pls don't tell me 5 min trinket is gonna be the go to for sin

[lapis trail]

Korayn or Niya for ST rn?

[slow marsh]

DW

[echo geyser]

dreamweaver

[lapis trail]

boring

ty lol

[viscid spear]

It's hilarious that we pick the actual fairy as our soulbind, so unbecoming of an Assassination Rogue

[umbral rapids]

Hello ! So I haven't played sin since 8.3 and i was messing around with it raid today, I'd like some advice please .
The things i know i'm messing up : i mess up openers and when i press vendetta sometimes (I inted on the nine) but that's just practice stuff. I'm mostly curious about what's happening in shiv etc.
I know i'm a bot no flame

Tarra : https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/xaG9Dbwtr4gM1zhj/#fight=last&type=damage-done&source=19
The Eye : https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/kvh2TAjYdLbFzXKC#fight=1&type=damage-done&source=20
The Nine : https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/K7XmhZ1gf9FCwPy3#fight=8&type=casts&source=8&view=timeline

[brazen zodiac]

sup ice

[cunning needle]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[fathom flax]

Is there a list somewhere of items you get from the creation catalyst?
Off tier items, because I’m pretty sure if you put non tier in you just get another of the same with different stats right?

[oak sky]

I was under the impression that creation catalyst was just for tier gear

[fathom flax]

Nah I’m pretty sure if you put, for example, a belt in, you get a belt with different stats

But the result is fixed

[oak sky]

Would be a pretty big waste of a catalyst charge early on

Ig maybe later it would just give you free raid loot

[fathom flax]

Early yes, but looking at the raid off pieces most of them are kinda trash

[oak sky]

I would think it just gives you a raid off piece

Which you could just substitute for a better m+ piece

[fathom flax]

https://youtu.be/B0qNvz5s8aY

It’s just Kelani but

If you goto 2:10 or whatever he shows putting non tier slot items in and getting good stats

But idk, something to chase I guess

[amber fossil]

wow, 8 weeks till devs turn on CC

[mental dune]

CC?

[balmy condor]

Creation catalyst

I assume given the rest of the convo

[amber fossil]

yes

but since it's not meant for gear acquisition, I apprec the help with crappy vault/drop rng

good info Orrock, thx for sharing

[lucid birch]

Are my rogue homies pumped for patch day

[rigid charm]

it's gonna be patch night when maintenance is done at 6pm

[spice spire]

I am if you are mister Dsnow.

[fathom flax]

Pumped to spec sub for a few weeks 😦

[lucid birch]

I am! So then you are too

[spice spire]

[brazen zodiac]

hey quake!

im so excited!!!!! 9.2!!!

[spice spire]

Howdy vita

[viscid spear]

I didn't get anything done tonight like I wanted, spent two hours on a HC Sylv kill that didn't happen and I drank too much and now I'm going to bed

[spice spire]

I had a migraine and woke up three hours ago

[viscid spear]

Go back to sleep, you're dreaming

[spice spire]

I’m dead inside mister ash

[tight ginkgo]

[glass tulip]

when you wake up theres new content

[brazen zodiac]

idk whats going on

[timid cloud]

[bleak sky]

can't sleep when you had nightmares of spending 300k on useless shit and being poor at the start of the patch

[oak sky]

already poor

cant have that nightmare

[vestal wren]

i sleep a lot better knowing that shadowdust is fixed in 9.2 for subtlety, so we can return to only small shananigans

[oak sky]

oh thats

so good

poison bug when/

[ashen scroll]

Wait they fixed the dust opener?? Pog

[vestal wren]

they did, we can now savely return to deathly shadow pre pull shananigans and sylvanas mythic mh weapon swaps

[ashen scroll]

[slow marsh]

I hope they take away your free slice and dice too 😜

[ashen scroll]

Ds is just snd right, that's more comfort/clean for an opener

Hey, im fine with that, just get that cringe mfd opener away from me

[slow marsh]

Mfd prepull is like 4 dps

[ashen scroll]

Didn't u have to tome/leggo swap. I never fully knew what it was because it was too cringe for me to want to do it

[slow marsh]

And it somehow makes the opener feel worse

Oh sub mfd swap stuff yeah that was cringe af

[ashen scroll]

Oh the sin mfd thing. I remember when i was learning sin i was recommended ceverions logs and the opener confused the fuck out of me lmao

[slow marsh]

Yeah there's some prepull stuff you can do for some bosses by using the pots to generate cps to have slice already up and open with a full rupture as long as you hit first

But it's not nearly as good as the sub prepull stuffs

I'm sure they'll figure something new out in no time that we can cringe about

[ashen scroll]

Prepulls/sac bug... It's just so annoying

[oak sky]

wait i thought deathly was long gone

[slow marsh]

Meh I mean in some ways it's part of the game so it's fine

[ashen scroll]

Like i went back to look, id break top 15 for guardian if that shit didn't exist, but nah 40 i guess

[slow marsh]

But the annoyance is when they let it go on for so long

[ashen scroll]

The dps buff is gone, cp stayed

[slow marsh]

They still get slice from it just not the amp

[oak sky]

that makes more sense

[slow marsh]

And sub vanish is a joke so the slice is still worth doing

[ashen scroll]

Slice is just comfort

[vestal wren]

deathly did get fixed, so you lose the damage amp

[ashen scroll]

The dps gain is trivial

[vestal wren]

you still get 5 cp pre pull

[slow marsh]

Hey 5cp is 5cp right

[vestal wren]

damage gain is, low tho as sozin mentioned (subtlety):

[slow marsh]

Yee I remember it's better for venth which is what I play anyways

[ashen scroll]

If u min max, you'll do it, but if you're guild pulls early you're stuck with it for the pull

Sozincide has been coined in my guild... Hehe

[slow marsh]

That's why you make sure you pay attention to the yellow thing flying in the air lol

[vestal wren]

i was surprised when i did the sim yesterday on it

because it was dps neutral on kyrian before

[ashen scroll]

Nothing i can do about hunters clicking the boss lmao

Ngl i am also surprised its 68 dps gain

That is 68 dps right?

[vestal wren]

deathly is 1-2 sec pre pull

[ashen scroll]

Feelscraft would have said like 20

[vestal wren]

also deathly pre pull does not require additional bar slots

[slow marsh]

I mean not having to press slice in open is more than just comfort so it makes sense

[vestal wren]

just replace your snd with snd + gear swap to raid gear

[slow marsh]

Ye that's what I do

[ashen scroll]

Yeah i have a separate macro for it

Having to swap your macro for kyr/venth sub sets

I forget occasionally lmao

[slow marsh]

True but that's better than having to have a separate vanish bind for the dust prepull

[ashen scroll]

Yeah that is fucked lmao

My vanish bind is already weird enough

Alt-1

Sin is fun to play

[vestal wren]

i think i use v for vanish

[ashen scroll]

Stealth is shift-1 so at the time it made sense

V would be practical tho

[vestal wren]

c or v, not sure atm (i use shift + c for character window)

the other one is sprint

and x is door of shadows XD

[ashen scroll]

For some reason i don't use z or x for rogue. C is cvial

[slow marsh]

V is my door and z is vanish

[ashen scroll]

I'll probably put breadblades on z tho, if we end up using it

[oak sky]

outlaw for sure will in raid

[ashen scroll]

Pogg

[slow marsh]

Yeah it will

[oak sky]

i think theyre going deeper dreadblades KS venthyr

like everythings different

[ashen scroll]

KS?

Pls no

[oak sky]

i think maybe

[vestal wren]

outlaw with breadblade and dust

[ashen scroll]

I'd rather be in control of my character lmao

Dust is super fun

[oak sky]

I think the KS thing is with dust

[slow marsh]

Yes KS

It's 5% over rush

[oak sky]

KS was already simming higher for venth I think

[ashen scroll]

I thought it was kyr dust? To double down on the cp cdr from kyr

[slow marsh]

It was but in margin kinda

Now it's huge

Kyr dust is good too except you have 10s to get all 4 animacharges

[ashen scroll]

Oh

No shot

If u have good rolls that's not even possible to do lmao

[slow marsh]

Yeah

[oak sky]

and isnt dust especially sick since it reduces flag and dreadblades

[slow marsh]

And tier is less predictable than shadowtech

[oak sky]

and KS

[slow marsh]

Yes

[ashen scroll]

Flag cdr?? Pogg

[oak sky]

and all of those arent normally reduced

[slow marsh]

And vanish is on 45s cd average

[oak sky]

outlaw gets super short flag cd

[ashen scroll]

Is it a 45s flag now? I've only played sub venth so im used to 1mim flags

[oak sky]

not sure

[slow marsh]

Flag is back up when the intial 24s is done

[oak sky]

I think with dreadblades+ maybe deeper it goes really low

[slow marsh]

For opener

[ashen scroll]

I guess sin but sin doesn't get full 30 unless you mut rng like crazy

[oak sky]

sin gets 25 minimum with mfd

[slow marsh]

Sin flags are 1:10ish

Which is why venth didn't pan out as of now with double leggo

Because you waste too much dusk cdr trying to sync with flag

[ashen scroll]

Woah that's gunna be real spicy. Maybe outlaw is prog-able for raid

[oak sky]

outlaws tuning is a little low overall but it doesnt look that bad

[slow marsh]

Their numbers are still low yeah but the concept is good

[oak sky]

like even without dreadblades up their flags still just fill up with the cp machine gun

[slow marsh]

Yeah they make oodles of cp but don't really have anything to do with them

Dispatch is fine but it's just under tuned

And bte even at 6cp doesn't do much either

[hollow river]

buff pistol shot

[slow marsh]

They can't

Then you play qd and it's too good

[bronze marsh]

baseline gsw

[ashen scroll]

Their entire tier is pistol isn't it

[slow marsh]

Yeah

[oak sky]

kinda yeah

[slow marsh]

It's main gauche makes cps and PS charges their gat and at 6 they shoot a 6 CP bte

[ashen scroll]

More bte uptime pog

[slow marsh]

More uptime on already 80% uptime yeah

[ashen scroll]

I didn't test sin on the ptr, does sin play faster now?

[oak sky]

little bit

[slow marsh]

During vend yes

[oak sky]

not a lot bit

[slow marsh]

You're global capped during vend

[ashen scroll]

That's great to hear

[slow marsh]

Out of vend it's the samish

[ashen scroll]

Outlaw-esque playstyle is fun

[jovial spear]

Everyone rolling Night Fae in 9.2? Or sticking with Venth?

[slow marsh]

I mean you're just mashing Mut every global and finishing at 5/6, it's not like you have to GS, ss, ps, mfd dispatch etc

[ashen scroll]

True, but waiting for energy is a feelsbad. So global capped is fun

[mortal pike]

hows the new 2 set looking for assa in keys?

[slow marsh]

There's some wiggle room for fights but yeah NF after 4p is overall a lock

[oak sky]

ok in keys

just like now basically

other classes got really sick aoe from sets ours is ok

[jovial spear]

Aight, thanks 🙂

[slow marsh]

It's nice that we got some aoe but it's nothing to write home about yeah

Sub aoe and funnel is still better

[mortal pike]

I'll do anything to keep not playing sub

maybe ill just stick to outlaw

was kinda hankering oging assa this tier rofl

[vestal wren]

i wouldn't brag with subtleties aoe tho

[ashen scroll]

[mortal pike]

maybe ill just stay a pirate

[vestal wren]

i am btw. excited for 9.2. I want to see people experiment with talents and legendary powers

[mortal pike]

maybe ill stab

[slow marsh]

I mean regardless you still press symbols, dance, storm, powder and do 25k

[ashen scroll]

It's really boring

[mortal pike]

Does anyone who did a lot of ptr raid testing have thoughts on how assa felt on the fights?

[ashen scroll]

I started playing outlaw in keys barring hoa and dos

[slow marsh]

Versus sin having to decide every global how long something is going to live and if it's worth bleeding or should I just envenom and when should I shiv ? And oh vanish is up better Garretx3 etc

[slow marsh]

Good

[mortal pike]

Hows sepsis feel?

Honestly never gave NF a shot this expac at all haha

[slow marsh]

It's press and forget so it's fine

Just sepsis shiv and that's it

[ashen scroll]

Yeah nty lmao. Brain is too small to do that

[slow marsh]

Or I guess now shiv sepsis idk who cares

You don't have to deal with flag stacks so it's a plus imo

[oak sky]

seems like outside vendetta its sepsis shiv inside its shiv sepsis

right?

[slow marsh]

Yeah

That's right

[hollow river]

can literally sepsis->shiv and run away from boss if absolutely necessary if you'll be back in time for your AR+Blades

[slow marsh]

Stupid bonk thing makes it actually matter which order and stupid backwards conduit septic shock

[hollow river]

wait it's different inside vendetta

LoL

how unintuitive

[slow marsh]

It's sped up in vend now

[hollow river]

ye

so you get the whole thing in it

[oak sky]

since it fits yeah

i had been thinking about it

[hollow river]

i wonder how much dps sepsis->shiv outside vendetta is

[slow marsh]

It's just a matter of getting the first tick of septic shock or getting the bonk

[hollow river]

or if you can just shiv->sepsis without much detriment at all

[slow marsh]

If you shiv sepsis you don't get the bonk in shiv

[hollow river]

likely miniscule to simplify the rotation

[slow marsh]

It's not iirc

[hollow river]

[oak sky]

its definitely not miniscule but also definitely not a massive gain or anything

being lazy adds up tho

[slow marsh]

Ye

It's better to just get it right

You're giving up free damage for no reason

[brazen zodiac]

sup guys

[slow marsh]

If not

[hollow river]

0.04% or something just wouldn't matter to 90% of people

same as how a lot of people don't pool energy period

[oak sky]

oh race doesnt matter

oh pooling doesnt matter

oh that one gear piece doesnt matter

oh covenant doesnt matter

[slow marsh]

Yeah that's always a slippery slope cuz where do you draw the line like agreon is detailing

[oak sky]

and thats why i simmed the sylv belt

which i never even got

[zinc frost]

But that’s what min/maxing is all about, you either care about the minute details or ya don’t

[slow marsh]

It's k I never got KT or painsmith legs

[oak sky]

neither

damn

i got both

[slow marsh]

Those boes lasted me all tier pog value

[oak sky]

i got the boe too

it covered my raid expenses for the entire tier

[slow marsh]

I got one too and gamed the system so I got a 2 for 1

[hollow river]

Seems like a pointless argument tbh

But obv you wouldn’t be “minmaxing”

[oak sky]

if its outside margin its a minmax

[slow marsh]

I mean you're talking about sepsis shiv vs shiv sepsis which I get doesn't look like it would matter but it does

[hollow river]

You*

Eh likely similar to the shiv before MA window argument

But a little bigger difference

[slow marsh]

You do you ig

[hollow river]

Nah I mean I’ll do it how it’s meant to be done

I’m just discussing

The more complicated things get the more mistakes are likely to be made by someone trying to minmax without experience

Kinda pointing back to the discussion on the podcast earlier today about minmax etc

[oak sky]

didnt watch it

too early

[slow marsh]

Sure I get that

Focusing on sepsis shiv or shiv sepsis when you're letting bleeds drop is pointless

[hollow river]

For example I see sub “underperforming” on WCL averages next tier simply based on the up tick in skill expression and RNG

Sin doesn’t get a bunch of rng but the skill expression is definitely rising quite a chunk going into this tier

Comparative to how it’s been thus far in the expac

[balmy condor]

what are we talking about with shiv?

[oak sky]

stepsis

[slow marsh]

Sepsis shiv vs shiv sepsis in and out of vendetta

[oak sky]

order

[balmy condor]

[oak sky]

yeah

[slow marsh]

Bonk vs septic shock tick

Yeah it's dumb

[oak sky]

wait

[hollow river]

Just discussing how vendetta shiv->sepsis and no vendetta sepsis->shiv

[oak sky]

dont we not even play septic shock

[balmy condor]

shiv sepsis and sepsis shiv is within margin

we play septic shock

[hollow river]

Thanks

[oak sky]

right its 3rd

[hollow river]

I figured it was

[hollow river]

[slow marsh]

Like whoever made the septic shock conduit

I would like to hear their thought process on making it backwards

[oak sky]

i already miss lashing

for not being dog

[slow marsh]

Dw we get to keep it for a few more weeks

[balmy condor]

septic is very not dog

[oak sky]

see it does more ✨ damage ✨

dog dog design existing

[slow marsh]

Septic itself is good but the design being backwards is dog imo

[oak sky]

L ratio dont care etc

[slow marsh]

Also why do we call things dog and not cat

[balmy condor]

we still get pretty much full value regardless of which way it increases

[oak sky]

cat>

dogs are dirty too

dirtier anyway

[slow marsh]

But my MA sepsis shiv dreams

I'm jk I've never thought of that ever

[oak sky]

the most scuffed opener ever

sepsis MA

[hollow river]

Now that’s cursed

[slow marsh]

Yeah we're gonna uh hold vanish until this thing bonks even though the damage is front loaded cuz this conduit here uh

[balmy condor]

septic noticably better than lethal poison btw

[slow marsh]

What about in cleave tho

[hollow river]

Great I have to buy more conduits

Dang it whispyr

[oak sky]

i have 226 septic i think

[slow marsh]

Nerds not even prepared for 9.2 come on

[balmy condor]

idk irrelevant fight type

[oak sky]

i have all covenants 80 im good

[slow marsh]

You're right

[hollow river]

I don’t have any 80 yet

[balmy condor]

think it basically pulls equal on 3

and then loses on 4

[slow marsh]

I forgot patchwerk st only fight type

[oak sky]

need to make a new achievement for notrickz

BTC

behind the curve

[hollow river]

Bitcoin?

[balmy condor]

where would you be cleaving with fae

[oak sky]

bro lords of dread stocks

[hollow river]

@oak sky I don’t have sockets/conduits/renown/anyofthatgarbage

[balmy condor]

[slow marsh]

Whenever I want to pull my shirt down and cleave

[hollow river]

And I got CE

[oak sky]

i have everything

except all conduits 252

i have most of them

good enough

[balmy condor]

my fae pantheon parse I must optimize for 4 target burn phase

[oak sky]

so true

[ashen scroll]

I have all conduits except the cov ones at 252, fuck em

[hollow river]

I have one week to get everything

[oak sky]

just dont get sockets

[slow marsh]

The question is would korayn first strike be better or worse overall than marileth necrolord on a mixed fight

[hollow river]

I’m not even rank 6

[balmy condor]

worse

[hollow river]

I can likely buy sockets after conduits I’d imagine

[oak sky]

just play dreamweaver for prio or whatever

[hollow river]

I’ve never spent the research crap

[oak sky]

aoe doesnt exist

construct invented by ww monks

[slow marsh]

And sub rogues

With their tornados

[balmy condor]

if want overall damage:
if single target = fae
if anything add = necro

[slow marsh]

I want a solid balance

I don't want to have to choose you see

[balmy condor]

wrong game ig

[slow marsh]

I want my cake and I want to eat it too

[balmy condor]

play sub

[slow marsh]

Spec*

[balmy condor]

dunno

[slow marsh]

Yeah

[hollow river]

Complains about having meaningful choice

[slow marsh]

Hey at least I have 252 conduits

[hollow river]

My time is valuable friend

[oak sky]

is necro really worth with cleave

like is the double bleed enough to make deathspike not shitty

[slow marsh]

I mean Kevin stonks maybe

[oak sky]

like I can see it being good on fights with actual aoe

but it doesnt seem good enough on like 2T or whatever shit like that

[slow marsh]

Probably 3t sustained or add resets makes deathspike good?

Doubt 2t is enough

[oak sky]

yeah like pantheon it seems good because p3 matters

[slow marsh]

Also tons of add resets in pantheon

[oak sky]

and like early on necro of course can be good

[slow marsh]

Well maybe not tons but add resets

[oak sky]

since you dont have deathspike yet

[balmy condor]

necro obliterates on 1 target with 60% single add uptime

it's not even close

[oak sky]

[balmy condor]

^

[oak sky]

i dont want to ask

but i want to ask

[slow marsh]

Nice

Nf for 2 bosses pog

[oak sky]

damage to main target with add uptime

does necro still win

[balmy condor]

how much uptime would you like

[slow marsh]

69%

[oak sky]

idk whats realistic i didnt test at all

but like

[slow marsh]

Necro is going to be stonkers bro

[oak sky]

i would think intermittent adds would be better than a consistent add

[slow marsh]

These fights shit adds out

[hollow river]

Sausage boss has an add but it’s pretty miniscule uptime

[slow marsh]

Like a ww's wet dream

[hollow river]

May as well count as 3rd ST boss

[slow marsh]

Sausage boss add is up a large % of the time

[oak sky]

halondrus looks necro af

right

tons of swapping

[hollow river]

Not anymore no

[slow marsh]

Halondrus doesn't have pillars anymore

It's a dps check shield

[oak sky]

oh did they fuck with it that much

[hollow river]

That add on sausage got decimated

[oak sky]

i knew they did some changes

[hollow river]

In our testing and everyone’s I watched

[oak sky]

im gonna have to theorycraft in heroic week

[hollow river]

Yeah

[slow marsh]

I mean the add should get decimated because it poops everywhere but you still get resets

[hollow river]

If the fights similar in mythic I’d likely run nf for it

[slow marsh]

Agreon I highly recommend just brush up on your Necro and be thankful like me that they made the cov hearthstones swap when you swap

[balmy condor]

it takes

[oak sky]

ok

thanks

[balmy condor]

very little uptime

for necro to win overall

[hollow river]

Ooh

But loses a bit of prio

[oak sky]

i just set up my covenant hearthstone

[oak sky]

but any more uptime and it wins probably

[slow marsh]

Also more add resets is more Kevin

[oak sky]

yes

[hollow river]

Ye I could see it

[oak sky]

but more dot uptime is more high cp bonespike

[balmy condor]

this is at 60%, which is standard cleave add

[slow marsh]

Nf will be nice for mobility though so there is that

[oak sky]

im so down for necro

[hollow river]

[oak sky]

fuck fae bro

[slow marsh]

Yeah

I figured the prio would go up too

[hollow river]

Fae is just qol utility

Very useful

[oak sky]

everyones gonna be necro

[hollow river]

[oak sky]

this a necro tier

[slow marsh]

Na not everyone

[oak sky]

[hollow river]

[oak sky]

maybe not at the start

[slow marsh]

I'd recommend fae to newer players over Necro idk

[oak sky]

but theyll see everyone doing more damage as necro then go necro

[slow marsh]

Necro is for the sin chads

[oak sky]

im guessing we need a weakaura

for kevin

[slow marsh]

For what

Got one

[oak sky]

or is heimir better

[slow marsh]

Kevin

Koji did apl updates and it beats heirmer iirc

[oak sky]

cool

glad I prepped necro

[slow marsh]

Yeah after the fixes to deathspike and sbs with tier I was already banking on playing Necro

[clear finch]

The talk of Necro/Fae is only once certain breakpoints are met tho right? Like... initial prog is going to be straight up Venth right now yes?

[slow marsh]

Until at least 2p yeah

And venthyr still has a chance as well imo

[oak sky]

I think necro on certain fights is good really early

[slow marsh]

Some people do value having synced CDs every minute ish even though it Sims lower

[plush garnet]

Hows sin looking for 9.2 in general? going to be strong? middle tier?

[clear finch]

I've legit been in my head over the last 2 days about which spec I want to commit to prog with lol. I sat at a target dummy as venth assa and kyr Sub and legit don't know what I want to do in life 🙃

[slow marsh]

As strong as you are

[bleak sky]

it's about 40 strong

[slow marsh]

Do you have daggers

[clear finch]

Sylv daggers? Nope. Never dropped/vaulted for me.

[slow marsh]

Ok then there you go

[timid cloud]

Well, technically still one more week of reclear boys. Will my alt rogue get some daggy waggys? We shall see.

[plush garnet]

doesn't really answer my question, but thanks anyway lol

[timid cloud]

That was the answer.

[bleak sky]

still raiding

[timid cloud]

Every spec is only as good as you are.

[slow marsh]

If you're good at sin it's strong, if you're not it's probably just mid

Play what you're best at

[empty hinge]

Look at the bosses and decide on which spec you’re going to perform the best

[plush garnet]

Theres a lot of information out there that people smarter than I put together to give a decent prediction on where the spec will fall in comparison to other dps

[slow marsh]

And they're largely shit

[plush garnet]

I understand you should play the spec youre best at etc ofc

[slow marsh]

So

[timid cloud]

Yeah, I checked out the Dratnos tier list!

[bleak sky]

assassin is not enhance shaman

if that's what you're asking

we're not simming 19k

[timid cloud]

Or current Boomkin.

[empty hinge]

Enhance stonks

[plush garnet]

lol that much I gathered 😂

[timid cloud]

Last time Enhancement simmed high, was Uldir, then look at how that ended up for them...

[empty hinge]

Antorus enhance

[timid cloud]

Good times. Strong times.

[junior rampart]

Let enhance have the good time in 9.2

[timid cloud]

No.

[ashen scroll]

It's too good tho, that's the problem

Add up wf damage and it's insane

[junior rampart]

Yea! Last patch it was boomkin. This patch let Enhance have some fun.

[ashen scroll]

They could nerf enhance by 5% and it would still be very strong

[empty hinge]

Is loot and valor capped this reset

[upbeat needle]

Make Enhance a tank spec

🙂 problem solved

[junior rampart]

Let them nerf but let it still be at top 3. Lol

It's an interesting spec to play

It's fun tbh

[timid cloud]

Yes.

They probs won’t uncap Valor until 9.2.5

Like they did this time.

Valor should reset tomorrow, should be able to buy conduits with research, I think, but maybe not sockets. Since in S1 they took out the sockets & conduit upgrades going into S2.

[waxen jungle]

Guys assa wont Play sylv dagger in 9.2 right?

[zinc frost]

It’s still gonna be good to have but just gets replaced a lot quicker

for OH

[waxen jungle]

Just found it in pins

Tyvm

[neon cloak]

So sub is the go to for 9.2 i guess?

[empty hinge]

Play what you enjoy and perform the best

[plush garnet]

I think it will be fight dependent, I think sin will pull ahead on pure ST fights

[neon cloak]

I enjoy playing the best spec possible 👀

[plush garnet]

just my opinion though,

[neon cloak]

I think Sub Kyr pull ahead

[limber lion]

They're close enough where you can play either

[scenic kelp]

hey guys, in pins its saying at start i play venthyr with obedience but my sims say that doomblade is better 😄 is it right or is obedience in situations better? sorry for bad english 😄 https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pamxQ9K8SW7XEHZhWeuADF

[limber lion]

Just play the spec you perform better on

[limber lion]

You need MFD

[potent dagger]

You will still play Assa @limber lion ? ^^

[limber lion]

Yes.

Always an assa boy

[potent dagger]

Necro ? :p

[balmy condor]

kyrian

[limber lion]

Venthyr 0pc, Necro 4p, Fae 4pc + double lego

[potent dagger]

i rather my wings to be extra crusty :p

[ashen scroll]

3 cov swaps during prog, love to see it

[neon cloak]

2p? 🌝

[potent dagger]

I might skip the necro phase :p

[lavish hazel]

Do we have a sheet with windfury totem dps gain ?

[limber lion]

Still Venth

[limber lion]

There is one pinned in #wow-general but it has not been updated for 9.2

[cloud nacelle]

So we go necro if we have 4p, but no double lego?

[limber lion]

I mean the difference between the 3 covenants is so small that it doesn't really matter

I just go Necro because I like to change things up

[plush garnet]

yeah keep in mind these are pretty small gains

[limber lion]

Anything that gets me off Venthyr

[rotund oak]

outlaw and venthyr hater Cev confirmed

[bleak sky]

If marileth truly is the play I'll miss gemstone windows

[potent dagger]

i will miss ob so much 😢

[limber lion]

Nah, I like all rogue specs.

[rotund oak]

butoutlawcanburninhelljklol 😅

[limber lion]

Can't even make a joke around these parts anymore

smh

@scenic kelp your Obedience is crit/vers as well. If it was crit/haste it would pull through quite a bit more.

[scenic kelp]

y ty i did a new sim with mfd and now obedience is ahead. i did obedience for sub 😄 i think i dont craft a new one for this small gain or?

[neon cloak]

What is the difference between sub and sin % wise

[limber lion]

Yeah the difference is like 20 dps. If you don't care enough for it, there's no reason to recraft it.

[limber lion]

Sub sims 16.7k with mythic gear, Assa sims 16.2k

[neon cloak]

Sub kyr and sin fae

[limber lion]

Correct

[scenic kelp]

but there a some situations where assa is better because bleeds and poisons are up for some mechanics i think?

[limber lion]

Sure.

It's not so black and white.

Sims are sims and should be treated as such

[plush garnet]

^

[limber lion]

Encounters always have their own thingies going on. Mechanics, movement, add spawns, intermissions, damage amps etc.

[scenic kelp]

gracias for you infos!