assassination

[strange python]

sin leader boards bruh

[spice spire]

Now that’s toxic

[strange python]

I musta done a few as sub

[thorny pond]

and yet I am done with the raid

got every item

[spice spire]

I haven’t had an io upgrade in like 90 days

[verbal mantle]

had me in the first half homie

[bleak sky]

I can't get into first page

[subtle tundra]

2 of my scores is from sub, the rest is assa so technically im still like 99.9% assa main, right?

[thorny pond]

uh

75%

or whatever you mean by 2 scores

[bleak sky]

maybe 50% assa

[subtle tundra]

2 score, 2 rio

[thorny pond]

like 2/8 or 2/16

[strange python]

I hold top 1-5 night fae sin parses for heroic though...everyone trolls about being NF, but i love it.

[thorny pond]

oh 2 points

so 2/10 kekw

[nocturne geode]

@strange python im up there with you too

🙂

[strange python]

nice

[slow marsh]

I mean my man is kinda on to something though. You can't complain about externals if you're kyrian sin

[strange python]

It's wierd though, sometimes they dont make their way onto the covenant leaderboards, and i dunno why

[thorny pond]

Kyrian... sin?

[slow marsh]

@kind talon

[nocturne geode]

i have a couple kyrian sin parses too

[spice spire]

mr. iceblades

[thorny pond]

oh no

[nocturne geode]

(:

[spice spire]

I don’t feel so good

[bleak sky]

ghost and tech the 2 out of 5 nf sin enjoyers

[kind talon]

sup?

am i still rank 1 kyrian sin heroic

no shiot

[nocturne geode]

hell yea

i mostly do it to say it can be done

(:

[slow marsh]

I already committed to playing dreadblades next heroic clear or I'd knock you off

[bleak sky]

"sin otp" 🤔

[thorny pond]

dreadblades NF

do it

[nocturne geode]

he refuses

to much hate in his heart

[spice spire]

Caught lackin king

[slow marsh]

Hey man sometimes absence makes the heart grow fonder

[spice spire]

[slow marsh]

I can't beat my own parses without KA so may as well do some trolling ya know

[nocturne geode]

trolling?

[bleak sky]

nf outlaw inc

[slow marsh]

Yeah like play night fae

[nocturne geode]

https://tenor.com/view/pratinha-prata1-gif-19486473

[slow marsh]

The real question is who's playing sin in ptr raid testing

[spice spire]

Desecrating this pure sin channel with night fae

[slow marsh]

Cuz I know I am

[nocturne geode]

i have been

[slow marsh]

I see a lot of sub rogues on streams just saying

[nocturne geode]

those are followers of a false god

lol

[gusty mirage]

[bleak sky]

realms up

[strange python]

lol i always play chess until realms come up

[thorny pond]

thnx king

[slow marsh]

The true watcher

[timid cloud]

Praying for my kings.

[thorny pond]

Eat Loot Pray

[spice spire]

loot today brothers

Only based loot

[deep solstice]

There must be a few people logged out at the vault.

[timid cloud]

I logged out right next to it.

[thorny pond]

Every week

[deep solstice]

This is a very long 10%.

[thorny pond]

I go to sleep next to it

[timid cloud]

I wish I could log out on the shelf above the BFA chest again for good luck.

[strange python]

mine's been at 100% lol

[thorny pond]

and every day I give thanks and confess my sins to a shrine of Ion

[timid cloud]

[deep solstice]

Maybe we logged into FF14 by mistake.

[nocturne geode]

say world server down for me

says*

[thorny pond]

Got on my monk just fine

[timid cloud]

[thorny pond]

high pop servers look like they are going down tho

[strange python]

yeah i'm a52 - definitely can't log in

[nocturne geode]

[bleak sky]

stormrage took many tries to get in

[thorny pond]

stormrage is my home but a PoS at that

[strange python]

You alliance?

[thorny pond]

toon not found 🏓

yeeeee

[bleak sky]

2nd rogue is 😦

[thorny pond]

Horderage is lul

[exotic plume]

is this a bug?

[strange python]

I played horde on KT back in the day - when wpvp was a thing

[bleak sky]

I get my vaults from shittiest characters to best characters

[exotic plume]

he was at 20% at like 6:10

[strange python]

That's how I spent my time.

[bleak sky]

so i get increasing disappointment from vault when Im done

[strange python]

lol

Sometimes I wait til Thursday to get mine on my alts - that way i can be disappointed again

[thorny pond]

Then you climax Minalba?

[bleak sky]

[thorny pond]

heck ya bud

[strange python]

I don't think there's anything my rogue can use in the vault honestly

[thorny pond]

it's still fun to open ghost

[strange python]

yeah true

[thorny pond]

like not sega dreamcast on christmas morning fun but like a nice hoodie fun

[strange python]

ok i do have a 246 haste/crit ring - that if i got a 252 iw ouldn't complain

[deep solstice]

So many people at mage tower

[hollow river]

What?

[spice spire]

EZ

[thorny pond]

3rd one in as many weeks

[spice spire]

Oh

[exotic plume]

wow.. I thought it was the enrage because I didnt get an achievement but there is none LOL I guess I finished the mage tower 5 times the last 4h

[viscid schooner]

Niceee

I wish i was that lucky

I only get gear that I already have

[thorny pond]

I wish I got one before prog was well over on even RF

[limber lion]

[thorny pond]

You don't even play Cev

come back

we need you

[limber lion]

who does?

[timid cloud]

https://i.gyazo.com/b266d6c6fb11529d369473dd83e68a8c.png

[thorny pond]

me

[timid cloud]

Shit...

[limber lion]

giga belt poggiewoggie

[timid cloud]

[bleak sky]

tokens

[gusty mirage]

alright boys

[strange python]

edge of night from the vault boysss

[gusty mirage]

I check vault now

[strange python]

249 version tho

[gusty mirage]

3 shots at a 259 edge

[strange python]

:DDD

finallyt

252 dagger main hand and 249 edge offhand?

or other way around?

[timid cloud]

Yeah.

Higher ilevel in main hand.

[slow marsh]

massive 9.2 neck

[timid cloud]

LOL

[strange python]

LOL

[viscid schooner]

Is that necklace good?

[gusty mirage]

I ALMOSTED OPENED THE VAULT IN OUTLAW SPEC

[slow marsh]

no

[gusty mirage]

I JUST HAD A HEART ATTACK

[viscid schooner]

Haha okay

[spice spire]

Oxi

No

[gusty mirage]

I was trying to get a friend the painsmith weap last night

[slow marsh]

i opened in outlaw and got helmet upgrade so

[bleak sky]

show loot

SHOW LOOT

[gusty mirage]

😐

2 sylv items

none dagger

[viscid schooner]

There is a dagger

[gusty mirage]

AVOIDANCE ON CHEST LETS GO

[viscid schooner]

Not the one you want

[gusty mirage]

yeah I've vendored that thing 6 times already

thing sucks

[spice spire]

I mean chest is decent tho

[nocturne geode]

ancient cypher ring crit/haste 252 w socket on rogue 🙂

[spice spire]

So W?

I technically called it @gusty mirage

Call me Nostradamus

[slow marsh]

@gusty mirage do you have that ring already

[spice spire]

He has 252 cipher

And if he has 246 melandrus

[slow marsh]

bloodoath better for next patch tho

[limber lion]

for like

2 days

sure

[slow marsh]

yeah

[spice spire]

Yeah LMAO

[slow marsh]

gotta get that r1 while he can

[spice spire]

The epic min-maxing

[strange python]

what about 2x edge of night 246 ilvl vs 1x 252 dagger + 1x edge of night, whats better?

[slow marsh]

for sin it's the 252 + eon

[gusty mirage]

bruh I'm stacked on rings

call me tom brady

[slow marsh]

ZAMN

well played sir

i'm glad that the green name has also buffed your wit

[bleak sky]

sim it

but prob 252 + eon

[strange python]

ahh aight

[pearl ingot]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/upcoming-legion-timewalking-trinket-tuning-split-damage-w-large-damage-buffs-325310?webhook

is it a nerf for whetstone?

[slow marsh]

yeah

[pearl ingot]

will it only hit 5 enemys now?

[nocturne geode]

my alt rogues first vault yet my main has killed every week since week 1 and seen zero of these

new main

[slow marsh]

maybe i hsould make a new rogue

[nocturne geode]

fucking blizz

gimme my rerolls back

[strange python]

so not worth farm whetstone then? if i got shadowgrasp 252 and 252 phial atm

but still worth farming the vault of the wardens trinket right?

[spice spire]

In order, Bailey. No, and yes

Farm faulty

[bleak sky]

gotta sim it to make sure king

faulty is prob an upgrade yes

[spice spire]

Whetstone loss but still sim, unsure if it’s updated

[strange python]

ezez

[spice spire]

That would be an @fleet anchor question possibly?

[pearl ingot]

whetstone does so much dmg in m+

[strange python]

yeah im making a few sims atm with the eon

so happy i got it

[spice spire]

Nerf on reset - it’s now capped, shared damage and 50% upgrade of damage

[slow marsh]

no shot faulty isn't an upgrade tho

I was gonna casually do any low rerolled nelth lair keys to try and see if that mark of dargrul is any good now but looks like it isn't

[hollow river]

Did you complete it on another spec or something?

Because that’s the only you wouldn’t get the achieve

[fleet anchor]

Sims aren't updated yet. It's being worked on.

[spice spire]

Thanks, wasn’t sure Koji

[tiny ember]

So bois what are the chease shit for the mage tower shit any suggestion what to get

[gusty mirage]

We appreciate your work Koji

[limber lion]

There isn't much, you just have to keep grinding and learn the fight.

You can use gear that has more sockets as well as unbridled potions, but that's about it.

It's all about consistency and learning the fight.

You can do it with your current Shadowlands setup

[tiny ember]

oh lets see how many tries

is it the same challange it was in legion?

[limber lion]

Leech definitely helps so if you can find items that have leech on them, that will help a ton

[limber lion]

Yes, but it is tuned a lot better

[mystic garden]

do any legion trinkets do better than PHIAL /SFA?

[limber lion]

Meaning, it's quite a bit more difficult

[limber lion]

Like I said, Faulty Countermeasure is better than SFA

[tiny ember]

cheers so just get unbridled the rest is if you got leach lovely

[limber lion]

Yup

[mystic garden]

is that for every spec ?

[limber lion]

Just don't get discouraged if you don't get it in 5 tries

[limber lion]

yes

[tiny ember]

Kind sir I got my prot paladin chalalnnge in legion the first time it was aroudn i wiped 130 times XD if it goes down in 20 I'll be dissapointed

[limber lion]

Practice makes perfect

[sharp bear]

Surprised to see faulty is that good

Time to start the farm than

[strange python]

Lack of weapon tokens to get loot makes me wanna quit this game :/

[glacial bough]

is tricks of the trade being recorded and uploaded somewhere? im at the office rn lol

[gusty mirage]

yeppers, whispyr and seli are both streaming it on twitch so it'll be available via one of their vods until its uploaded to the RH youtube channel

[glacial bough]

oh sweet, thanks oxi

[gusty mirage]

[strange python]

Green name >_>

[gusty mirage]

We'll post the links to their vods until its uploaded to the RH youtube channel

[gusty mirage]

[strange python]

Use your powers to make blizz bring back weapon tokens.

Or loot vendors

[mystic garden]

yoooo did 2 dungeons last week and got a 252 phial in my sole vault slot

POG

[gusty mirage]

grats!

still haven't seen a max level phial all expac

[mystic garden]

ty

[gusty mirage]

[mystic garden]

up until today same

[strange python]

Same. 3 vaults every week since launch

Lots of oozes tho

[gusty mirage]

lots of ocarinas for me

[strange python]

Accept your role, simp

Blizzards telling you something

[gusty mirage]

I do have a druid

[limber lion]

@gusty mirage hello can i get help with my log pls i need a log review and i saw you on the sidebar

[gusty mirage]

absolutely

I see that you have a lot of 99s this tier and I'm going to need you to work toward 100s

[limber lion]

where do you see those 99's?

I don't see any :(

[gusty mirage]

in my heart

you 99'd my heart but never 100'd it

[limber lion]

anyway, here's my log

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/g48nrk9P2zp67NTR#fight=26&type=damage-done&source=26

i was contemplating holding shiv a bit but I think this is decent?????

[gusty mirage]

hmm your bleed uptimes need work

[limber lion]

damn

[gusty mirage]

high 80%s? TRASH

[limber lion]

what would you do during the intermission?

[gusty mirage]

Bleed your teammates

like a true assassin

[limber lion]

[gusty mirage]

your dps really fell off during intermission

[limber lion]

yeah :(

i try to fix it but I don't know how

[gusty mirage]

I'd recommend blasting CDs beforehand

[limber lion]

ok!! i'll try

[gusty mirage]

so that you do less damage after intermission

and it won't feel as bad

[limber lion]

but what about the p3 damage check?

it was very tight already on this pull :(

[gusty mirage]

sounds like a warlock/fire mage issue

[limber lion]

true

i'll try ty!!!

[gusty mirage]

[fleet anchor]

O snap, you're green name now?

[gusty mirage]

warlocks madge

[gusty mirage]

yeah I had to promise I'd name my firstborn child Ronkles

[fleet anchor]

Haha

[iron orchid]

I didn't even notice oxi turned sexy

green

i meant green

[cerulean nest]

macro to vendetta and forget about it right?

[spice spire]

Damn mr. Deïræ

[limber lion]

i found this r1 demon hunter log and I tried to replicate it on assa but it's really hard :((

what to do

[polar cape]

rofl

[cerulean nest]

for faulty

[hollow river]

[polar cape]

carpal dream right there

[limber lion]

very intuitive rotation indeed

[strange python]

My warlocks and druids rage at me simming for 12k every raid

[gusty mirage]

step 1: open talents
step 2: click outlaw
step 3: click activate
step 4: buy one of these birds

Step 5: Put it on sinister strike and afk

[limber lion]

thank you mr!!!!!!!!

great help mr green guy

[gusty mirage]

Step 6: Buy a 2nd bird and put it on dispatch

[limber lion]

wow

how many birds do you have?

[fleet anchor]

Just get refunds on every cast, ezparse

[gusty mirage]

I personally throw a flounder on my keyboard, it's more intuitive for hitting shiv oncd

[limber lion]

damn I tried spamming Envenom 20 times in a row as well but I never got a refund idk if it's bugged or something??

[polar cape]

his outlaw rotation is caculated with the flock apm

[fleet anchor]

Did you try playing Venom Rush?

[limber lion]

:O

https://tenor.com/view/mind-blown-gif-11131691

[normal mist]

fishing while listening to the podcast, sweet.

[gusty mirage]

[obtuse robin]

oxi green

[gusty mirage]

[placid pagoda]

is there anyway to see how many attempts at MT you did?

[arctic walrus]

if you have to count just know you're at too manyj

[spice spire]

Damn.

[strange python]

Gotta run, but seems like a nice, productive discussion. I really hope that "Community Council" has representation from folks like that and isn't just filled with yes-men.

[alpine latch]

@limber lion Are you going to let him call us trash like that?

[limber lion]

it's okay, he's just mad that he's still target capped

[alpine latch]

lol

[spice spire]

Wait @alpine latch hol up

[alpine latch]

I didn't do it... I swear

[spice spire]

[alpine latch]

Yeah man - I got a Veinripper

I gotta test this out

I already beat the #2 DPS in my guild by 3k DPS

Maybe if I'm playing a spec I don't know they will have a chance

We still don't have the numbers for Mythic, so we're just re-clearing Heroic every week

[spice spire]

[thorn fjord]

I know that i'll most likely be playing Sub starting tier two 😦 But i'm enjoying sim for the time being

[alpine latch]

We're picking up people but we also just had 2 people leave, which is a net gain because now we have tons of battle rezzes not being wasted on baddies

[spice spire]

I just like to give Palmer guff

All rogues are chill

[thorn fjord]

<- Toxic rogue

[tiny ember]

ok the assa challange is not bad at all

an hour ish

[alpine latch]

Typically speaking, if people don't bust your balls around here it means they don't like you

[tiny ember]

soon as you figure out the overlaps around 5 min it's acutally easy

[proven moth]

Except mut rogues

[thorn fjord]

This is our guild dynamic

[spice spire]

Or you’re not around a lot

[alpine latch]

Big true there

[spice spire]

perhaps

[kind talon]

whats a mut rogue

a mutt?

[sonic schooner]

Hello fellow mut gamers

[spice spire]

Mut rogue is an older termed used to describe assassination since Mut is a shortening of mutilate

[kind talon]

yeah i was joking

kekw

can we please add mut rogue to the bot filter

[sharp zodiac]

It’s an abomination is what it is

[spice spire]

Nah it’s fine

Also I wasn’t sure dekai

[kind talon]

calling me dekai like we're friends

news flash

we are friends

[proven moth]

Now kissu!

[glass tulip]

Blessed week

[alpine latch]

I heard you're actually caffeinated @kind talon and it's all a big lie

What say you?

[kind talon]

slander

[sturdy mesa]

Mashallah brother he's real

[fleet anchor]

Updated now as per #tc-updates

[bleak sky]

i've said this like 4x before but

why don't you pursue a Mythic guild again?

[timid cloud]

Someone tried mentioning that Sin was the BM of Rogues....then I remembered Outlaw is closer to it than we ever will be.

[alpine latch]

Because if I wasn't playing with my two friends, WoW isn't worth playing

[fleet anchor]

I think this might be in the context of it being easier to approach

Outlaw is not really what I would recommend to a newer player tbh

[proven moth]

I only run M+ with friends. I don't like raid with friends.

||you can always reroll to monk or dh ||

[balmy condor]

die

[timid cloud]

WHOA

[balmy condor]

in the game

obviously

[fleet anchor]

Outlaw is very high APM and rotationally a bit complicated (despite the memes) while Assassination is a bit more methodical and easier to learn.

[proven moth]

We won't hold hands in sinfall anymore Whispyr

Gotta hang out in peak of serenity now

[balmy condor]

can we hold feet

[spice spire]

Thanks for the quick implement koji! You’ve been working overtime the past week or so between the ring and the updates

[balmy condor]

interlace some toesies

[alpine latch]

Wut

[spice spire]

Sorry I pinged you earlier

[alpine latch]

I have so many questions

[proven moth]

But let's not tell our GFs about it

[balmy condor]

[spice spire]

You just gotta accept it for what it is king

Dw

[proven moth]

[alpine latch]

I'm not mad at it, I'm just trying to work out how that's even possible

[timid cloud]

Shinu. @balmy condor

[proven moth]

Practice... like almost everything

[spice spire]

Yeah man just some foot holding

[alpine latch]

Feet are gross. I'm good

[timid cloud]

[spice spire]

It’s a way to get around premarital hand holding tbh

[balmy condor]

the devils gateway

foot to hand pipeline

[proven moth]

It's about excercie. You start first curling your toes then spreading them out. Once you feel confortable you can hold feet with your boys uwu

[alpine latch]

You know why so many guys nowadays have a foot fetish, don't you? It's because they all lost their virginity to a sock.

[proven moth]

#MuscleMemory

[timid cloud]

One day you’re holding hands, next you’re sucking some toes.

You’re capping so fucking hard right now.

Get me out.

[bleak sky]

raid with friends is truly monkaS

[timid cloud]

EJECT EJECT

[balmy condor]

anyways, now that I have done my mod duties of derailing a perfectly reasonable conversation about spec choice

I will go eat lunch and make it someone elses problem

[spice spire]

Yes man

Been tempted too many times by the devil

[proven moth]

Make a pin about the TW trinkets

[balmy condor]

They suck

[balmy condor]

I'll fix this one at some point

[spice spire]

I deadass thought you pinned they suck

[timid cloud]

It is a very Whispyr thing to do.

[proven moth]

I don't trust Whispyr since he plays Sub in raid

[bleak sky]

kings you should all be pushing keys what are you doing here

[bleak sky]

AND IN KEYS

degen

[spice spire]

Working

[spice spire]

Sir?

Io check

[proven moth]

I'm grinding weapon XP in warzone since Vanguard it's not worth and I'm in a 3rd world country where dollar it's expensive AF

[timid cloud]

📢 I don’t know who needs to hear this but Echoing Reprimand is not as fun as you think it is. You are being gaslit. 📢

[bleak sky]

f

[proven moth]

Bastion it's not fun at all. Be an edgy vampire

[bleak sky]

dumb green class

[strange python]

wtf

what fight is that

[bleak sky]

first nw pull

[spice spire]

Gonna assume that’s an hoa or nw pull

Yeah

[strange python]

There's just no reason for it

[manic rampart]

how much dps do u need in the mage tower to beat it before the enrage?

[spice spire]

Lowest I’ve seen is 990

[glass tulip]

thatcould be after the RP though?

[spice spire]

Just keep bleeds up and do mechanics

[loud light]

1100-1200 is more in line with jarl being dead when he needs to be dead

[glass tulip]

^

[spice spire]

Iirc it wasn’t - not 100% on it because I forgot who did it, but you’ll mostly see the 1100s clear it ezpz

[manic rampart]

just asking because i cba using consumables and im at around 1.1k currently

[spice spire]

Should be fine then, do mechanics and it’s free

[limber lion]

Depends a bit on which part of the encounter

If you're doing 1.1k after the pull, it's very low.

There is literally no reason not to use consumables

[red plaza]

money

😛

[manic rampart]

^

[glass tulip]

but what are you gonna spend 20k on if not to clear content

[manic rampart]

its just some alt

if its doable without why not do it without

[limber lion]

It doesn't really cost much to keep consumables up.

Because it's unnecessary handicap

You'll be spending much more time on it than necessary

You could get that 20k in 10 minutes

[manic rampart]

sure but ive done most of them so far without and it worked just fine

[limber lion]

And then clear the tower in less time

Well you do you.

[manic rampart]

sure i might need a try or some more but it works

[limber lion]

Let us know how it goes and how long it took you.

[balmy condor]

Just have more money

[agile geode]

guys. rogue challenges are doable without any old gear or similar?

[limber lion]

Yes

You don't need any old gear or cheese

You just go in with your current Shadowlands setup

[agile geode]

kk thx

[red plaza]

Yeah the only "cheese" I would recommend would be unbridled fury pots since they are so strong. But they aren't necessary

[manic rampart]

does feint work against the spinning axes?

[near bane]

that means?3 rupture over CT?

2 rupture+CT refresh

no snd?

[balmy condor]

yuh

[spice spire]

That means prioritize keeping your bleeds up that includes Rupture and CT, since you’re kiting a lot. Everything else is extra

[manic rampart]

took me a few tries

[glass tulip]

impressive

[balmy condor]

gratz! I have a question though, specifically how do you get out of bed in the morning knowing that behind your monitor, that font lurks in the shadows waiting to be brought out

[steel geyser]

We need you to make a gold farming guide then

[kind talon]

LMFAOOOOOOO

[manic rampart]

bis font

[limber lion]

Do a single boost run.

[manic rampart]

i dont use it for the chat tho its hard to read

[steel geyser]

That doesn't take 10min, liar !

[glass tulip]

why spend 20 minutes of boosting when you could get a degree in microeconomics and play the auction house :)

its called the sigma grindset and making passive income

[limber lion]

Sigh

[toxic estuary]

hello i have a question , w the first question on the faq do we pull 30 - max energy on every envenom?

[red plaza]

you don't pool for envenoms, you pool for shiv windows

[toxic estuary]

oh in the faq it says envenom

is that just shiv instead

[alpine latch]

I tried to get into boosting... But since I'm not a Mythic raider I'm not allowed 😦

[bleak sky]

boost M+ then

[alpine latch]

NA Alliance .. it's feelsbadman

[steel geyser]

❤️

[bleak sky]

you can boost on alliance lol

[clever kindle]

how can you boost that which has no players

Its like picking a small town to make a taxi career

[tropic ocean]

with that degree might as well just buy 20$ token for 1 min 200k

[red plaza]

hmmm you're right. Pooling envenoms ultimately pools for shivs, so in essence it's kinda the same thing? I personally just don't think about it until shiv is about to come off CD. It's much better though to not overcap energy and miss casts though.

[bleak sky]

fewer boosts, sure, but there are boosts

[tropic ocean]

alliance demand is high with low supply tho

[clever kindle]

just come to illidan and download blockchinese youll be rolling in gold in no time

[toxic estuary]

ah so u just send envenom but pool on shiv

[alpine latch]

You can for m+. But you, literally, can't boost NA Alliance raids. No one sells them unless it's a guild sale.

[bleak sky]

There's a single run on huokan every week

[alpine latch]

That's a guild sale

I asked on Hukoan, Starlight, Gold Cap, and one other carry server

They only do deals with guild carries for Alliance

[bleak sky]

you're saying this ant the other ones are >guild< runs?

[alpine latch]

Shrug, I'm telling you what they told me

I was specifically told that the only time they do Alliance carries for AotC was if a guild was offering it

[slow marsh]

Seems like an in house run to me

Looks like they still need dps

[bleak sky]

yep

[sharp zodiac]

Lol what ASC does 4 in house alliance sales a week

Wednesday Friday Saturday Monday

[alpine latch]

What is ASC?

[sharp zodiac]

Azeroth Sales Community

[alpine latch]

Never heard of them

I'll check them out

I presume they are the standard "5/10M and 90% or higher parses"?

[glass tulip]

I think I've heard they were the big guys before huokan

[sharp zodiac]

I think they just check heroic parses

[alpine latch]

Hmm

[sharp zodiac]

But they vet your logs

[alpine latch]

I have a 91% peak. I might be able to get in ...

I'll check them out

[spice spire]

Usually places check your median

[glass tulip]

I have never been accepted to a huokan run with a 98 average

[alpine latch]

That's not fair

[glass tulip]

have probably applied to 50 runs :)

[spice spire]

Jesus mavv

[glass tulip]

yeah idk they hate me

[spice spire]

Down cataclysmic

[glass tulip]

whats that

[spice spire]

Then some shitter like oxi gets in no problem

[hollow river]

Are you signing up unsaved?

[alpine latch]

Ah, yeah. My median average is only 67.8%. Best average is 91.8%. So I'd probably be fucked there too 😦

[hollow river]

I’ve gotten in with 91% avg

[glass tulip]

yep

[sharp zodiac]

Doesn’t hurt to try

[hollow river]

And low median

[spice spire]

I really gotta get a fatescribe kill in

That 69 dropping my 92 horrendously

[hollow river]

You just have to keep signing up

To every run every day every week

[glass tulip]

I have an 85 median

[alpine latch]

Okay, I'll check them out.

[glass tulip]

nah I stopped because fuck those guys

[hollow river]

It’s not easy because they take regulars>new people

[alpine latch]

I can trade everything including EoN

[glass tulip]

not worth my time

[hollow river]

They know they can trust their regulars to do the job

[kind talon]

Wait I have a 99 median wtf LMFAOOOOOO

I didn’t even realize

[glass tulip]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/id/30362182#difficulty=4

[kind talon]

[glass tulip]

decaf jfc

[hollow river]

Get out

[kind talon]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/illidan/dekaichinpo#difficulty=4

Zamn!

[sharp zodiac]

A lot of sales communities in houses are run by usually a HoF team so yeah sometimes there some favouritism who gets brought

Happens everywhere

[glass tulip]

outlaw raiding

[kind talon]

[glass tulip]

you're getting real close to hall of fame there fella 👀

[kind talon]

Who?

[glass tulip]

you

[kind talon]

I am

Idk why the system works like it does

But I just get to put the title on

Famed slayer

[glass tulip]

If you kill it with a guild that got hof you get the title

which is weird

[kind talon]

Yep

Nah I didn’t even need to kill it with them

I just joined and got the title

[glass tulip]

just gotta be in the guild

yeah

[kind talon]

[glass tulip]

join echo, go legacy raid and get all the famed titles

"how to get 10 years of experience in 1 year"

[kind talon]

True

Join echo

BRB moving to eu

[glass tulip]

I'm moving to denmark to take cev's spot on method

[alpine latch]

[kind talon]

Let’s goooooo

[glass tulip]

99% out of the 6 outlaw players in SoD

[kind talon]

Look at my sin average

[glass tulip]

range

[alpine latch]

😦

[kind talon]

[glass tulip]

im over here throwing stones in my glass hut

[kind talon]

I gotta step it up

[alpine latch]

I'm over here pumping hard for my 91.8%

And you just casually have a 99.9

[glass tulip]

also a world 100 level player

so

a bit different

[kind talon]

I wouldn’t say that tbh

[alpine latch]

According to wowprog I'm in the top 1k of all rogues in DPS! That should mean I'm the best, right?

[spice spire]

@kind talon you 3k gapping your team like the bot Palmer?

[kind talon]

I wasn’t in this guild when I killed the bosses

[kind talon]

No

[glass tulip]

what rank was the guild you came from?

did you get recruited or did you apply to this one

[kind talon]

Applied

[spice spire]

Dekai a self made man

[kind talon]

The guild I spent most of my time in this tier is 877

[spice spire]

Put respect on his name

[kind talon]

But before that it was

[glass tulip]

dang bro, that's a huge jump!

[kind talon]

World 4304

At beginning of the tier

[spice spire]

It was a good tier for the homie

We love to see it

[kind talon]

Eh

[crisp steppe]

The power of pressing 123 in right order

[glass tulip]

im not even getting callbacks from 600s

[kind talon]

Could have been better

Lol

[spice spire]

Numbers wise

Always can be

But you made some big jumps king

Don’t downplay that

[kind talon]

Yeah thanks bro appreciate it

[kind talon]

Still got work to do

[alpine latch]

That's one of my top kills on Eye

[zinc coyote]

Unreal. Haven’t touched my rogue since 8.1 outside of a leveling and maybe like 10 keys total in SL. Boosted an IRL buddy last night on his sub 220 rogue. 1 dungeon = 252 phial

[glass tulip]

yeah palmer you're getting hamstringed by your guild

in terms of parsing

[alpine latch]

Oh 100%

[kind talon]

[alpine latch]

My top Eye pull was a 98% and a 99% for item level

I can smash, but my guild is mostly bad

[glass tulip]

that log is insane lol

[limber lion]

He's also actively getting externals iirc.

[glass tulip]

probably but the gap is just funny to see

there was a wowhead post on externals today. They basically said "get fucked"

[limber lion]

Yeah

[kind talon]

That post sucked

[limber lion]

Reminds me of my best HC Sire kill gap

[glass tulip]

Isn't the bigger concern raid buffs though?

rather than PI/KA

[kind talon]

Kinda

It’s both

[limber lion]

cute Sire

[spice spire]

That’s sauce

Assassination topping 9.0.5 charts XD

[glass tulip]

I've heard in FF raiding, the PI-like ability shows the damage increase on the giver, not the receiver

[glass tulip]

cheeky

[limber lion]

Yeah the problem is on Blizzard's end unfortunately

The combat logs are kinda poorly written so the externals are hard to track and fully evaluate.

That's why some of them also bug out when you get several PI's on top of one another.

[glass tulip]

I stand by my idea of a warcraftlogs bracket filter by # of externals

just like ilvl brackets

[limber lion]

Yeah that's been a common suggestion, but there's some shortcomings with the way combat logs work

[glass tulip]

immediately incentivizes 0 external parses while enabling blizzard's goal of having PI be used most optimally, I'm dumb but I dont see immediate drawbacks other than the developing of said system

[trail locust]

@limber lion hellowhat is best legendary for 8.2 raids forrouge

[kind talon]

[limber lion]

Shrouded Assassin very cool, very gooder

[trail locust]

thanks severi!1!

[limber lion]

np2!

[cerulean nest]

theres no difference which weapon gets sinful or celestial right

MH/OH i mean

[hollow river]

There’s no difference

[cerulean nest]

sick

sinful on MH gang

[hollow river]

That’s usually what I do

I usually run the same OH wep for outlaw anyway so I keep that one as Celestial

[bleak sky]

wait I don't i'm dumb

and now this message makes no sense because I accidentally deleted the one before, nice

[strange python]

I don't see the drawbacks of removing externals, either.

Blizzards argument that PI/kindred aff are interesting for prog don't really hold much weight

[glass tulip]

That isn't what I said at all

[glass tulip]

#assassination message
context started here

[slow marsh]

I mean I can understand from a dev perspective why they said externals are a community problem not a design problem

I don't agree with it but I understand

[strange python]

I get that. I'm just saying I fundamentally disagree with blizzards logic

And tbh I don't think blizzard believes it themselves

[slow marsh]

The fact that you have multiple externals that go to a single target in a 20man raid group is bad.

If they want to have stuff like pi and such then it should be very reduced and spread to affect a whole group

[glass tulip]

Right, but you misrepresented my idea so that's why I clarified

[strange python]

Fair

[hollow river]

If it becomes a problem within the community then fundamentally that has become a design failure

[slow marsh]

Not necessarily

[glass tulip]

Blizz said "we made 1 big banana so if the monkeys fight that is how it should be"

[slow marsh]

It's a community created problem which they are correct in. Design-wise it wasn't a problem until it became a problem if that makes sense

[hollow river]

If people dislike your design

It is a failure

[hollow river]

True

[slow marsh]

I agree that they need to change it now that it's a problem

[visual prairie]

i don't get it. why is it a problem?

[hollow river]

Arguments

[strange python]

Blizzard likes to design their game with an idea in mind and never consider the people who actually play and then blame those people for playing the way blizzard doesn't like

[slow marsh]

And why I disagree with their statement saying "not our problem you guys have a ranking website"

[hollow river]

Parse culture

[subtle tundra]

go open assa rogue warcraft log page, see the top people

[visual prairie]

ok

[strange python]

For people who finish progression early there's very little to do other than parse. It's discouraging to be unable to fight for top spots when you have 18 kills of farm

[visual prairie]

some serious first world problems

[tidal gorge]

I'm glad idgaf about parses. So much is padding anyway

[hollow river]

I don’t even care about mythic parses at this point

Because of the externals

[subtle tundra]

not even early tier, even midtier

[strange python]

I mean. Competitive players talking about competitive problems should have a voice too.

[slow marsh]

Because they're correct that the intended use of the externals is to kill the boss in an efficient manner during progression. The problem lies in the fact that it still only goes on one person out of 20

[hollow river]

It’s shit tier content

[slow marsh]

Ye

[strange python]

I'd buy this if this actually held up. It doesn't. No fight is tuned tightly enough for this argument to hold up.

[hollow river]

And Venthyr boomie is a thing

So

[strange python]

I just think blizzard is lying.

[slow marsh]

Except it does hold up in stuff like rwf and general progression

[strange python]

I think blizzard hates parses and is designing their game to diminish parsing but won't outright say it.

[hollow river]

Except they all still ram NF and Venthyr boomkins

Lol

Ran *

[slow marsh]

I don't think blizz gives a shit about parsing

[glass tulip]

That's true, that's like them copping out of balancing too. It fundamentally goes against their class balance philosophy "we made all of the classes as even as possible so that you can play all of them fairly in different situations"

If they don't care about damage ranking why do they care about balancing classes damage in tier sets, ST, multi, etc

[strange python]

Having played with at least a handful of blizzard devs, they absolutely hate that WCL exists. I don't know if they do on a team-level, but their design decisions tell me they probably do

[glass tulip]

its because otherwise a large percentage of players will pick the highest damage dealing class hence FOTM players

[slow marsh]

They probs hate that wcl exists because it proves how bad they are at balancing not because of parsing

[hollow river]

[strange python]

Agree to disagree I guess. The ones I know hate that parsing exists at all

[glass tulip]

They also probably hate that details is an addon

[slow marsh]

Yeah and they probably play night fae rogue too

[strange python]

And I think their design choices back up that they wish parsing didn't exist

[glass tulip]

It's an idea that is seen in a lot of other games which is ultimately that they design for the casual player

[strange python]

I think it's hard to argue that something like PI, or covenant locking, is for the casual player.

[slow marsh]

It makes 0 sense to me that a developer would hate a public logging website unless 1. They are just bad like most others that hate it or 2. They don't like to be held accountable for the responsibility of the huge gaps in balance

[strange python]

I see externals coming back and covenant locking as their attempt to diminish log importance

[slow marsh]

Public logging immediately creates more pressure and accountability for balance and we all know how much blizzard loves accountability

[strange python]

Maybe I'm just more cynical

[glass tulip]

That's exactly what they are arguing though. They said specifically "On a gut level, a simple, compelling, familiar RPG concept is: a thing your class can do is give one person a buff."

And For covenant locking was the exact same thing. It was an RP choice. They wanted people to experience the game through the lens of their covenant instead of being able to choose what is most optimal in any given situation

[slow marsh]

Log importance isn't the end all be all of everything and there are certain exceptions but at the end of the day if I'm a dev working on class balance then wcl immediately becomes my biggest source of data

It actually makes sense if what you say is true and they all hate wcl because it explains why class balance has been so bad

[glass tulip]

When yellow man is on top of WCL so you know nerfs are incoming

[slow marsh]

When they have literally free data right in front of them to pull from

[strange python]

Yeah idk, maybe it's just my cynicism because I see all of this as PR bullshit

[slow marsh]

The fact that it's arguable that it's pr bullshit proves how bad they are at balance though

[glass tulip]

It looks relatively balanced tbh

from a purely numbers standpoint

[strange python]

Class balance closer than it's ever been imo

[glass tulip]

That's nearly vertical

[strange python]

Bro rip. Only person on our roster this week to not get 9 vault

[keen mantle]

whats that graph from

sanctum?

[glass tulip]

yeah

[keen mantle]

which spec of rogue getting the nerf first

😛

[strange python]

Rogue getting 9.2 nerf by losing Dom shards and by having bad legendaries (:

[tribal mauve]

finally in the 12k gang, after 50 runs to get the legion trinket è.é

[hollow river]

Not if we all quit the game because of that

They’ll listen to us

Or riot

[strange python]

How do I get GM to give me three vaults :(

DK in on 9 fights, I'm in on 7. Riot

Give raid buff plz

[fleet anchor]

It's actually not really

SL balance has been pretty awful statistically speaking

Legion was very significantly less divergent between median classes

[oak sky]

This patch specifically its pretty good other than the outlier boomie

[spice spire]

Idk man destro and aff lock vs rogue seems very unbalanced

I’m not saying it’s dumpster

Like for rogue specs specifically I’d argue this tier is the best it’s ever been

[slow marsh]

I was gonna say this but I was driving

[fleet anchor]

Had to go to Heroic for sample size since too many Mythic logs got purged from WCL

But you get the idea

Legion class balance for the non-outliers was actually REALLY close

SL is basically just random grab bag

[slow marsh]

SoD has been a shit show in general

Some things have been good but overall you just can't compare with stuff like domination shards existing

People literally couldn't play their characters because they didn't get the right gear + shard combos

[oak sky]

Idk like even those classes at the bottom have some clear scenarios where they are strong

Not every class needs identical st

Thats boring

[fleet anchor]

Also here's another visualization style

This is CN on the left, Uldir on the right

In absolute difference from the median spec

Vast majority of specs were within +/- 3% of the median in Uldir

[slow marsh]

Agree but that's not the point

[fleet anchor]

While CN had more specs +/- 10% from the median than not

[slow marsh]

You think that the artifact weaps had anything to do with that or more just class balance philosophy in general

[fleet anchor]

I had a third way of looking at it that is fun

Because the sorting in WCL gives the wrong impression

[subtle tundra]

koji any update on the tier set simssss

🥺

[slow marsh]

I didn't play during legion because I didn't like the idea of everyone having the same weapons. Kinda sad I wasn't more open to it

[fleet anchor]

Basically this visualization goal is "if you randomize the order, how even does it look?"

[balmy condor]

They’re available

[fleet anchor]

Again CN vs. Uldir

[subtle tundra]

1 pog

[oak sky]

Varas u swapped to sin color

[fleet anchor]

As you can see CN is very "bumpy"

because the balance is awful

[oak sky]

Sin tier set rewriteup when?

[fleet anchor]

Whereas Uldir is flat because most specs are very close

[cerulean nest]

link tho?

[balmy condor]

I’m running my profiles and stuff

[slow marsh]

When they change the tier again

[balmy condor]

And will make a pin

[cerulean nest]

bless

[spice spire]

A man of the people

[balmy condor]

But I have a write up for tomorrow on wowhead

[subtle tundra]

i gave in 😦

[spice spire]

The honey badger has decided his home

[oak sky]

See iceblades

I was extrapolating based on the other writeups today 🧐

[slow marsh]

Well deadline is a deadline tru

[spice spire]

Man you’ve been having a lot of content recently homie. Two pieces released today, and a write up tomorrow?! Wowzers!

[slow marsh]

Just feels bad when you kinda know it's gonna change again but you don't know when or how much

[fleet anchor]

My synopsis is already pinned in the meantime if you want a jist while you wait.

[spice spire]

Such a busy lad

[balmy condor]

what

[oak sky]

I mean the writeup is so they see clear feedback

[spice spire]

The marcelian podcast also dropped today

[balmy condor]

Oh

It dropped yesterday

[oak sky]

Like the brew and frost like their changes, prot warr wants more and all that

[balmy condor]

But yes

[spice spire]

I was trying to plug stealthily

[slow marsh]

I appreciate that we think about things in a similar way. I wish I was smart enough to crunch as hard as you tho

[spice spire]

3 in a row

[balmy condor]

Yeah this week is pretty nuts

[oak sky]

@fleet anchor i took a peek the other day when you put it up :)

[cerulean nest]

weak molars?

[spice spire]

A: it is indeed neat, but b. Legit busy week, idk how you keep up with it

[slow marsh]

Not really more just don't chew enough

[fleet anchor]

I did also give pretty detail feedback to Blizz on the forums, so we'll be pummeling them with data from all angles 😄

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/class-set-feedback-rogue/1143962/69

[slow marsh]

Yeah thought your post was well written

[balmy condor]

Nice

[slow marsh]

Whereas I just cut to the chase

[balmy condor]

[oak sky]

PAWGERS

[fleet anchor]

I didn't want to get into the weeds of suggestions since there's a ton of good ones floating out there already

But did wanna talk about some of the design issues with the set

I actually liked your suggestions a fair bit Iceblades as they are straightforward and would be more intutitive.

[slow marsh]

Yeah I wanted to be blunt about how it's bad and try to give some ideas for what direction to steer since it seemed to me they didn't really have a grasp on how to do what they want

[fleet anchor]

But we'll see what they do

[slow marsh]

I'm on board with the concept they are pushing I just don't like how they are presenting it

[fleet anchor]

I think there is something thematically really odd about the 2pc not buffing Nature damage when that's what Shiv is supposed to do to begin with

Like I get why they did it, but it feels odd haha

[slow marsh]

It does feel odd

[subtle tundra]

so the tier set for assa is a whole 6% dps?

[slow marsh]

Would be much better to tie it to something other than shiv

Imo

[spice spire]

Based on current state, yes

[subtle tundra]

[oak sky]

Tie it into what then?

[slow marsh]

Shiv is one of our spec identifiers so I get why they are hinging it onto shiv but we have other stuff

[oak sky]

Thats the problem

[obtuse robin]

and whats frost like 10 %?

[fierce wind]

new court of stars ring over 246 sylv ring or 252 painsmith ring?

[limber lion]

Yes

Sim it

But yes

[fierce wind]

finally dropped

[limber lion]

I hate loading everything on Shiv personally.

[fierce wind]

have sims been fixed?

[limber lion]

Yes

[slow marsh]

I agree

[fierce wind]

sweet

[limber lion]

#tc-research

Shiv isn't some exciting ability

[slow marsh]

Attach 2p to garrote

[limber lion]

You just press it on cooldown

[hollow river]

venthyr boomkina nerfed

[oak sky]

Oh its in weekly now huh?

[hollow river]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/patch-9-2-ptr-class-and-spell-changes-build-41462-venthyr-balance-druid-nerf-325329

[slow marsh]

Envenom would even be better than shiv as much as @limber lion loves it

[limber lion]

Honest question

But why would you ever use weekly?

[slow marsh]

Can't really do rup I think because sub has it too.

[oak sky]

Because its default i guess

[limber lion]

Change it

and never change back

[oak sky]

I did

[limber lion]

There is no reason to use weekly ever.

[timid cloud]

I do recall once...

A nightly got goof'd, so we had to use a weekly, for one or two days.

I think it was the gem changes.

[slow marsh]

Yeah that was a mess all around though

[fleet anchor]

Sometimes nightly is buggy but usually if that happens we get a new nightly lol

I agree I haven't really used weekly on Raidbots ever though, it's mostly not useful

[timid cloud]

So much can happen in a week.

[muted ridge]

Nerf to WF?

[hollow river]

no

seems to be a tool tip change afaik

[slow marsh]

Ye it was already that way

I remember there was a simc thing about it

[fleet anchor]

That's how it has been for a while yeah

That is the "nerf" to WFT that a lot of people didn't know about

And why WFT went down in value a lot for like Havoc

[slow marsh]

Ye that's the one

[fleet anchor]

Because unfortunately it's still affected by the DW miss penalty

Both for triggering and proc'ing

I have no idea why they did it this way lol

[hollow river]

sounds like announcements should've been made to the havoc community

[fleet anchor]

Since DW miss penalty is 19%, it actually means we trigger 0.81 (percentage of melee landed hits) * 0.81 (percentage of WF hits that hit) = 65% of the amount of like a 2H spec even for our MH

[balmy condor]

Avade is too powerful

[fleet anchor]

Which is really dumb

Actually Avade knew all this before and Max misunderstood, but yeah 😛

[balmy condor]

Max is too stupid

[oak sky]

avade just wanted windfury

[fleet anchor]

Literally talked about this issue with Avade like 2-3 months before Max even said anything 🤣

[balmy condor]

I just want someone to blame for demon hunters wanting to steal my wft

Give me a scapegoat

[fleet anchor]

Also people made up all the fake drama with Avade and Wordup that also never happened 😛

[balmy condor]

Who do I send the Twitter mob at

[glass tulip]

Tettles, always Tettles

[fleet anchor]

How it actually went in Havoc SimC channel.
Avade: I think WFT might be not simming right.
Me and Wordup: Look at logs and sims for an hour or two. "Me: Nah I think it's correct based on these logs and reflecting the PTR changes."
Avade: Ok cool, just wanted to check.

Peak drama

😛

But yeah it's really an odd change to WFT they made. Really punishes DW specs a lot for no reason.

[hollow river]

DW?

oh

[limber lion]

dual-wield

[hollow river]

dual wield

ye

[glass tulip]

dool weald

[oak sky]

i feel punished+exsanguinated

or something

[glass tulip]

[lime gulch]

don't forget they did it after it was even more bugged in late beta and decided they couldn't fix it so just turned off-hand off :c

• the avade thing was even more tame than that we had a good chat idk why people seem to think it was drama avade's a cool duder

[fleet anchor]

I remember there was some really odd stuff with the ICD and when OH ones always proc'd MH procs, etc.

Feels like WFT was never really properly implemented for SL 😦

[lime gulch]

yeah the big one was the old ICD was 0.5 (which was really cringe) and OH swings that procced fired MH swings and at one point they were also counted as a unique swing so could chain proc if there was a little latency after they dropped the ICD down to 0.3(?)

[hollow river]

Enhance in general seemed off this expansion

[lime gulch]

so they just decided nah no OH no problemo main hand only

(but we won't tell anyone shhh)

[fleet anchor]

Oh yeah I forgot about the latency thing with the lower ICD haha

Classic style chain procs 😮

[lime gulch]

the double dip downside for dual wield on it is just

such aggressively bad design

cos both things (up until today obv) no player in their right mind would notice

[fleet anchor]

Yeah it's not really something super apparent to most people

So it's just quite unintuitive design

[lime gulch]

so everyone overestimates the value because like, on paper it should be [X%] good

but without knowing arbitrary rules you have to just already know or go out of your way to test you'll never clock it

[fleet anchor]

Most people would probably naturally think a DW spec would have more procs.. and they end up possibly having less even with a faster swing timer, which is just funny.

[lime gulch]

yeah exactly it's counter-intuitive in that direction too

[slow marsh]

Higher swing timer higher procs duh