also pally has to cast repetence and rogue has instant blind
#assassination
strange python
so can break the blind and still keep dps uptime whereas i had to keep it in repentence bc the buff would go off
guess thats why the hp was lower
drifting cloud
does the pala even get the soft enrage
strange python
i finished roughly 6mins 20 secs in
strange python
one was already dead by 5min 45 mark
drifting cloud
random yt video kill it in 4:30
hollow river
Soft enrage should be 5 min in
strange python
literally took me 5 pulls after completing the rogue one
AHAH
rogue one was like 100 for me
hollow river
random yt video kill it in 4:30
strange python
i reckon
drifting cloud
ok I lied its like 4:55
strange python
yeah i killed mine on rogue around 6 mins no drums tho
tidal gorge
Drums was what I needed. I did sooo many pulls without them and then killed it in like 5 pulls with them
fathom swift
outer cairn
i got maybe 2-3 more pulls and then calling it for the night
outer cairn
this goddamn trinket covers the pools and you can't see themn
upbeat needle
misty holly
what in the absolute fk. That is some bs.
astral comet
kingsbane was fun
outer cairn
fuck this. going to bed. i had jarl deasd twice now and i can't get back to it. so glad they aren't making any changes
goddamn axes at the beginnign are just murdering me
astral comet
are u starting the fight on top of jarl?
tidal gorge
You can dodge the first several axes if you stand there, but you should move by about when you want to refresh garottes in your opener
misty holly
I want to go to the paladin discord just to talk trash about how Blizzard gave them the baby version of mage tower because they can't handle the adult one.
tidal gorge
Cause when they swing back around they all cross thru there
astral comet
tbf if they had same hp as rogue one they'd die to enrage
outer cairn
wow i love how i evasion and get killed by jarl
god i hope blizz pulls their heads out of their ass
astral comet
dont give him ur back xd
outer cairn
w/e done for the night. over this shit
tidal gorge
You'll get it tomorrow, it sounds like you're basically there. But a little tilted atm 😉
outer cairn
i'd already had it if i hadn't broken fucking blind. so stupid.
astral comet
just leave it there today if you're mad rn
outer cairn
now i can't seem to survive long enough to get back to it
outer cairn
i'm furious. i been at this for fucking days
meanwhile fuckers got it cause of a bug and shit
no reprecussions
but fuck those that are struggling
astral comet
I do believe getting it without any bugs would feel better
provided how much time you've invested into it already
outer cairn
i'd have it if they hadn't buffed the goddamn health so much with minimal testing
fucking definition of insanity here
astral comet
if you've been spamming sin one for this whole time i'd honestly suggest u take a break from it and try other towers
then come back to it later
outer cairn
they need to just tune it
astral comet
when are u exactly dying?
outer cairn
but thats an unpopular opinion to anyone that has already gotten it
astral comet
cuz u cant die before 5 min mark right
outer cairn
just dumb shit. pools are masked by the fucking trinket or axes come out of no where or runes are to far away and getting bumped
astral comet
but thats an unpopular opinion to anyone that has already gotten it
nah i mean ppl who already got it will tell u to get gud
it is hard but its not impossible
misty holly
I had to take a break every hour.
DO one flask worth of pulls. Go do something else for a while
Too much at once is tilting for sure
strange python
Yeah i noticed when i evasion
it only dodges when im facing them
so if you have your back on jarl he will hit you
outer cairn
yeah i'm not spending 7500 gold for anymore of these flasks. i bought two and i got one left. i don't even need it to do 1.1k. i just need to not die to stupid fucking shit and make it to the 5 min mark and survive that stupid shit and keep sig in blind and get jarl dead again and then focus runeseer
sand canopy
it only dodges when im facing them
evasion is always like that, same as warrior parry
astral comet
just what server are u playing on that sells a flask for 7500 lol
cobalt pelican
strange python
yeah just letting skaddosh know thats why he may be getting hit
when he evades
ahaha
sand canopy
can abuse the bonk to get hit to far runes though if your healthy enough
strange python
i hate the bonks
outer cairn
w/e i'm done for the night. can only pray blizz fucking listens to the majority of people. it did not take me this long to kill this shit in legion
astral comet
cuz in legion leeching healed u way too much and u killed it before 4 minutes
in antorus gear that is
outer cairn
i did it before 7.3
sharp stump
Don’t forget guys, blizz bad and it’s not my fault
misty holly
yeah i'm not spending 7500 gold for anymore of these flasks. i bought two and i ...
Oh shit are you on my server?
I posted my extra flasks for 7500 last night
and 2 of them sold
lol
sand canopy
what kind of flasks cost that much lol
strange python
i only used normal flasks for mine and normal haste food
like the current ones
just sharpened my blades too
sand canopy
yea flasks are 300g on my server haha
misty holly
greater flask of the currents is like 19 more agility than shadowlands one
tidal gorge
Wait really? lol
outer cairn
greater flask of the currents is like 19 more agility than shadowlands one
yes those ones. but i don't need them
sand canopy
O.o thats insane
outer cairn
i don't use drums. all i have is the seed trinket
tidal gorge
I used SL crit food, SL flask, 150g old drums, seed trinket
sand canopy
same, full SL gear + the legion puddle trinket
misty holly
if your on my server I'll send you a couple more flasks
outer cairn
and i'm doing the damage. now its just surviving and not dying to dumb shit
misty holly
Lightninghoof
astral comet
actually since u can use older xpac consums
does that mean u can use the legion drums with 25% haste?
pogs?
strange python
yeah i always had them all together for cleave
just gotta keep on your toes to dodge axe
sand canopy
the burting blood potion is insane, used it to manage fury war tower
outer cairn
its usually only the first set. afterwards he's in the middle and i just kshot him again to stop him for a bit and its manageable
strange python
i walk in and out
outer cairn
worst is popping trinket and can't see pools or she puts pools all around the rune dude so its damn near impossible to hit him with his shield up
tidal gorge
She puts puddles where you are for the most part, so if it's getting unmanageable kick the caster and move him
astral comet
actual budget mage tower
outer cairn
whatever. try tomorrow
tidal gorge
Ya, plus you got til January, so don't stress too much about time
lean fossil
i mean @outer cairn dont get me wrong. i feel its over tuned but its still doable. ive been slowly grinding on it and im right there for the kill
rocky ruin
maybe i am missing this in the FAQ but which is the best lego for m+ as necro, currently low ilvl but plan on doing 20+
atm running Zoldyck and doing 5.5k overall average at 212 ilvl
slow marsh
zold
rocky ruin
so zold is the best?
slow marsh
yeah
if you play venthyr you can go obedience but ye for necro zold is better than deathspike by a mile
rocky ruin
isnt necro best for dungeon and better than venthyr?
slow marsh
Technically yeah
But with being able to freely swap people usually bounce between the two depending on what group needs
rocky ruin
ok
and venthyr will do more st with obediance so if my group needs more st i should go venthyr?
and that wont ruin my aoe correct?
slow marsh
yeah i would think of it more as priority damage vs just ST but yeah
and yes obedience wont "ruin" your aoe as long as you are using it smartly
balmy condor
Usually people don’t even run necro anymore tbh
rocky ruin
if i were to go venthyr i should go get obediance?
and be more of a st focus/prio damage focus
slow marsh
i'd say yes but you can still play zold on venthyr
usually people recommend zold for fort weeks and obedience on tyran weeks
rocky ruin
ok so i just go full venthyr and swap between weeks keeping venthyr for both?
balmy condor
Typically Just venthyr and obed and then cope on prio damage
slow marsh
i mean group needs always trumps but yeah that's the general idea
balmy condor
For every week
slow marsh
yeah i was also gonna say or you could just go obedience for everything
rocky ruin
Typically Just venthyr and obed and then cope on prio damage
cope?
slow marsh
Esp for like lower keys you'll never really get to have fun in aoe anyways so
slow marsh
yes
rocky ruin
even on tyrann weeks
balmy condor
Yuh
rocky ruin
will my ST spike hard when i make that full swap?
slow marsh
i mean you're 212 ilvl
so probably not really
but you'll be on the right path for sure
rocky ruin
last question
if i run the shiv conduit and I just used shiv but i have a dot close to falling off, should I just let the dot fall off or cancel an envenom cast to redot
slow marsh
depends on when the mob will die
rocky ruin
boss mid fight
balmy condor
If you’re in single target you can refresh if you have to, in aoe you have enough energy for it to not matter
rocky ruin
i put obeience on back right?
slow marsh
are you raiding on this toon at all
rocky ruin
i will eventually
slow marsh
then yea
rocky ruin
b4 next teir
ty for the help
am i missunderstanding the obeidience lego or is the vers bonus only 0.5%
i get the cd reduction is great and the haste is good from flag, but is it really only .5%?
slow marsh
.5% per stack
wild beacon
my toddler's input to the discussion
rocky ruin
ah ok
what does that average the cooldown at in ST/prio assuming i do it all correct?
slow marsh
in m+ you should be able to get it to 1min for sure in aoe
rocky ruin
ty
strange python
Plaguefall mount doable as rogue?
midnight wharf
Hello, new to rogue here. I have the obidience lego max, but i really want to switch to necrolord. Is there a high gap between covenants ? Which is easier for a new player? thx in advance
rocky ruin
i have 10% haste withoyut any buffs, is that enough?
fallow otter
i have 10% haste withoyut any buffs, is that enough?
Enough for what
rocky ruin
general m+
fallow otter
Hello, new to rogue here. I have the obidience lego max, but i really want to sw...
Venthyr I would consider easier, you can do some min max with sbs with adds
rocky ruin
idk if thats an answerable question
fallow otter
Not really, you can do m plus with any amount of haste
You can sim your gear to have a guide of what gear to use from your selection but apart from that just keep getting drops and sim again
oak sky
i have 10% haste withoyut any buffs, is that enough?
if you havent i would do a dungeon slice sim to see what of your gear fits best
bottom line is crit is most important, you could add mastery if you want more aoe
haste is still pretty good for st/ prio and it also isnt turbo useless in aoe
rocky ruin
so how does fan of knives combo point generation work?
ruby birch
You gain 1 cp from it +1 for every target it crits
junior rampart
I wish fan of knives had same interaction as shuriken storm. Combo points per each enemy hit rather than depending on crit
rocky ruin
a crit on any combo generating spell will give an extram point right?
misty holly
They should have let us join 2 covenants in 9.2 rather than equip 2 legendaries.
drifting cosmos
too many buttons
misty holly
imagine all the interactions between soulbinds that have to be simmed
marble hemlock
balancing nightmare
The original covenant system already had that issue, and that didn't stop them either though ^^
rocky ruin
lol
oak sky
a crit on any combo generating spell will give an extram point right?
only fan and mutilate and shiv and ambush
not garrote
rocky ruin
i think ive seen my mutilate generate 4 combo points b4 am i wrong or can it do that?
oak sky
yeah it can
because mutilate kinda hits double
2 daggers, 2 parts to the damage, 2 possible crits
oak sky
4 is also fine
umbral rapids
before a finisher
rocky ruin
is it more important to get slice and dice up or just keep rupturing/crimson tempist in aoe
golden basalt
Envenom extends slice n dice so you don’t really need to think of it
fathom nest
How good is the Court of Stars Ring for sin?
balmy condor
Very
junior rampart
Does Raging Battle-Axe only hits main target or does it interact with other mobs below 30% health if our dots and bleeds are applied already?
junior rampart
Oh got it. Thank you.
umbral rapids
because you're on weekly ?
not sure if it's there yet
also koji found new stuff
scenic jetty
right let's try Night;y
vestal wren
koji nerfed our preciouses ring 
umbral rapids
vestal wren
(i am joking, its rly nice that he makes the sim as accurate as possible)
oak sky
big
umbral rapids
simming higher than guardian trinket afaik
oak sky
more than the ring
vestal wren
potentially nerf zone
copper sundial
distant mist
still no ring or trinket T_T
kind talon
：）
slow marsh
Bing bong
oak sky
still no ring or trinket T_T
viscid spear
dawn ivy
how good is that ring now with the 25% "nerf"
kind talon
how good is that ring now with the 25% "nerf"
what?
dawn ivy
koji mentioned the ring isnt working as intended/assumed and its performing a little worse than current sims
kind talon
I mean Ye
It’s still bis for sin
Probably outlaw too
Maybe worse for sub now idk
nova flax
Maybe worse for sub now idk
It hurts sub because of the haste. I also dont think it would be bis for outlaw because mythic sylv ring + they craft celerity on their ring. I could be wrong though.
errant swallow
Good morning my assassination friends.
hoary crown
Assa or sub for sanctum?😁
hoary crown
Okay thanks mate!😁
strange python
On Fatescribe - damage taken from Despair.
I'm near the top, but I always eat that first one because I'm supposed to MD that add to the tank without affinity.
I also run that rune there.
But what are you guys doing for the first Despair (when the add isn't in position to LOS yet) - I could just go stack with Ranged...maybe that's what people do? Or just eat it? I'm not dying, I absorb most of it, and can pop Crimson Vial which takes care of the rest. But I just don't want to look bad on the charts when they're calling people out for damage taken from stuff.
Oh - I'd also have to check but I know a few times it's been called for a wipe right there (too many dead, whatever) and i'll just eat two to the face. I dunno if that's what adds up to me taking so much damage from it.
strange python
yeah that's what I was thinking
shut garnet
so u dont have to LoS it, just dont be on top of the add immediately
strange python
Seems logical but wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something.
shut garnet
u can also cloak them btw
strange python
8% btw
hollow river
You can also feint it can’t you?
strange python
I wasn't sure if that would reduce the dmg - i'm not specced into that "all damage" thing
hollow river
Might just need to be ready to step to a ranged player if they are not in the LOS spot
spice spire
!def
prisma monolithBOT
Rogue Defensives usability: http://tiny.cc/q602uz
hollow river
hollow river
spice spire
GM mr. notrickz
strange python
Yeah ok - I should be good, thanks for the tips
spice spire
@gusty mirage 
hollow river
Have a good day yo
spice spire
You as well brethren 
pseudo hamlet
So, if I use the droptimizer and the ring is still showing -X% DPS I shouldn't chase it, eh?
spice spire
On nightly, yeah
pseudo hamlet
On nightly, yeah
ok, it's +1% 
gusty mirage
<@192059095279337473> <:monkascheme:585734083590750219>
No I’m not updating the book of shadows for the mage tower
Before you bring it up
glass tulip
He was talking about despair on fatescribe
nocturne geode
oxi being cute today already no way :3
gusty mirage
He was talking about despair on fatescribe
Oh he usually likes pinging me to add things (like the tormentors)
spice spire
Nah I don’t hate you enough for MT 
gusty mirage
Nah I don’t hate you enough for MT <:kekl:753617830296944660>
“Enough” 
spice spire
Nah I just saw some blue on fatescribe and wanted to know if you had updated data brøther
gusty mirage
Feinting despair? I can sort through my logs and check
I’m almost positive it works
I just avoid putting a hard yes or no without checking it first
gusty mirage
As for beams I have no idea if feint works idk if I’ve ever even tried it
spice spire
I feel like that’s not something you can afford to do on prog
So maybe you can try soon
coarse bear
What is the easiest and hardest classes to do Val kyr challenge on?
wintry sonnet
What are some op trinkets for the mage tower assa challenge?
wintry sonnet
Is the faulty countermeasure worth getting?
vestal wren
yes it is
hollow river
What are some op trinkets for the mage tower assa challenge?
Nyenthedra or whatever the first boss of Emerald Nightmare is called drops a good trinket
Ravaged Seed Pod iirc
glass tulip
Whetstone might be good in place of another on use
I had phial / salvaged fusion but it didnt do that much
golden basalt
I used phial/soulrender trink on my kill, but it was mainly due to my decanter having leech on it
rustic plover
wow first try with ravaged seed pod and its a kill
strange python
as necrolord asssass in keys, would you use the bonespike conduit always?
even if its 185ilvl
strange python
and your others are 226-239
small basin
its one of the best conduits for necro
strange python
hmm aight
biggggg ceeebs ahah
need to upgrade my venth one too
probs holding my dps back
small basin
im playing plague deviser with pre-emptive first strike / lethal poisons/ sudden fractures
but some people play bonesmith too
small basin
which would be well placed steel/ sudden fractures normally
maybe poison katar for high pull count stuff
yeah plague deviser simming higher for me
annoying having to use fleshcraft to keep up the mastery buff tho
strange python
thanks for tip on the conduits, find it interesting tho how plague sims better for you and bone better for me
wonder why that's the case
oh iknow maybe bc i sim for dungeon slice
strange python
plague probably higher for patchwerk
strange python
ahh intersting
hmm
your sims higher then mine tho
maybe i need to try out what youve got on on plague
spice spire
plague probably higher for patchwerk
Bone smith is higher than plague Most of the time
Also if your SF conduit is low ilvl, just run LP+WPS. Plus maim mangle is oddly decent if running Doomblade
strange python
aight for keys yeah? so i got LP at 226, WPS at 239, PK 239 and SF 200 ilvls
spice spire
Yeah so it depends on dungeon for max output at that point. WPS really good on low target counts, PK gains value the higher the target count. Lp is just genetically good for all content.
SF is more of the same, but being down 3 levels probably pushed the others up.
This is all a sim thing though
I can toss it through if you’d like
strange python
ahh aight, yeah i might sim it myself just about to head to bed tho, but thanks for being helpful
ima sim after vault i reckon
hopefully i get the sylv daggers 😄
spice spire
if you need any help, just dm me. Avid necrolord enjoyers have to stay strong
strange python
your sims higher then mine tho
actually your sims higher then mine probably bc of conduit ilvls ahah just saw 252
spice spire
Daggers one time
strange python
<:Prayge:817252593344577556> if you need any help, just dm me. Avid necrolord en...
trueee, im enjoying necrolord too much, started as venth but when patch came out, havent gone back AHAH
small basin
actually your sims higher then mine probably bc of conduit ilvls ahah just saw 2...
yeah lol
all 252
it sims a lot more now i got that broken trinket from legion too
strange python
what trinket is this?
small basin
and yeah i like necrolord a lot
strange python
is it must have?
strange python
i got 252 shadowgrasp totem and 252 phial atm
ahhh that trinket - not the faulty countermeasure one
I was about to say - my faulty isn't hitting 100k lol
small basin
i'll be surpsied if it doesnt get nerfed tbh
strange python
Do we get closer to monks when we use it?
strange python
spice spire
But better
small basin
ye
spice spire
Which is horrifying
strange python
Yeah - i really like it - was able to get a few decent parses with it. I hope they don't nerf countermeasure.
small basin
whetstone is an aoe pad trinket
spice spire
Whetstone is the best AoE trinket available too which is sketch 
strange python
If I really cared about my AOE in dungeons, i'd just do them as sub, honestly though
oh goddamn
spice spire
I’ve a feeling if they touch trinkets those two will be up there
strange python
maybe i should farm it
spice spire
If you’re already farming cos for ring
small basin
but yeah im trying to get ring
spice spire
You’re accidentally farming whetstone
strange python
lol i randomly did a 14 when i logged in last tuesday...it was court - got the ring lol
then i did over 70 vault runs for the trinket
weak plover
Can confirm. Got two whetstones by accident
small basin
and you could play sub
strange python
is the ring that good?
small basin
but sub is boring
strange python
the ring is like between 50-85 dps, but it's in the nightly build sims (not sure if in weekly yet)
strange python
oh shit
well yeah - that too - it replaced a crit/vers 246 for me so
didnt see the bonus buff
small basin
and as we know a lot of assa damage is melee hits so
makes sense
good for outlaw too
spice spire
the ring is like between 50-85 dps, but it's in the nightly build sims (not sure...
It is not yet in the weekly
strange python
how much increase in auto attack damag e 246
spice spire
36 iirc
weak plover
85~
strange python
yeah that's correct 36 each hit is what the tooltip reads
it changes based on armor, etc though
spice spire
But that’s mitigated some by armor it ends up being about an 80 dps gain over a similar statted 246 per sims
strange python
or i should say can show less than 36 depending on armor, etc
shit
ive been sleepign on these legion dungeons
strange python
was like what is the point of these if you cant get it at 252
but i guess they'd still be strong at 246
what you get from vault of wardens?
spice spire
A 246 faulty is stronger than a 252 fusion amp which is our best trinket
Faulty countermeasure
glass tulip
Faulty countermeasure - votw
Jeweled Signet of Melandrus, Windscar Whetstone - CoS
strange python
hmmm both 2 min cds, guess you use faulty with vendetta and whetstone as you please?
yeah i macro'd faulty with vend
That's the thing that does it for me - 2 min/2 min - i hate having like a 3 min trinket, then there's math involved and you gotta look stuff up.
glass tulip
with whetstone being 90 seconds its up for about every other pull in a dungeon
strange python
I wouldn't mind getting that haha
glass tulip
+17 DOS, pressing it on cooldown (Slicing maelstrom comes from Whetstone)
strange python
usually my garrotte and rupture same as crimson or just below ahah
probably focus targeting for team, our job
glass tulip
bc I was just fuckin around
strange python
aight you guys have made me keen, farm conduits, cos and vault
cerulean nest
fcm still not nerfed? wasnt there a blue post
glass tulip
Some people think its about nerfing trinkets in mage tower
so we dont know what they are actually going to be doing
like ravaged seed pod
kindred rapids
and nerf phial while you're at it
glass tulip
kindred rapids
it's too strong
glass tulip
3 ring drops none in my name, sad
spice spire
May not even be used next patch
glass tulip
28 runs
kindred rapids
while we're tuning trinkets can we buff the kt trinket
spice spire
If it hasn’t been by now, no shot
fallen fable
On how much sec is pandemic for garrote and rupture?
tight ginkgo
re: trinket nerfs -- unless there's another blue post I haven't seen -- the post states "we are currently in the process of deploying hotfixes (some of which have already gone live) to bring about the following groups of changes to the Mage Tower portion of Legion Timewalking ... we intend to make several targeted adjustments and bugfixes to enchants, gems from Burning Crusade Heroic Dungeons, and trinkets that come from Legion Timewalking"
Wowhead linked to it but only included the second half so /shrug
spice spire
On how much sec is pandemic for garrote and rupture?
30% of given time. So assuming a base garrote, it should be 5.4s and a rupture should be (at 5cp) 7.2s iirc
glass tulip
re: trinket nerfs -- unless there's another blue post I haven't seen -- the post...
Right, it's talking about inside of the mage tower. That's what the whole post is about
fallen fable
30% of given time. So assuming a base garrote, it should be 5.4s and a rupture s...
Thank you!
spice spire
No worries best of luck 
glass tulip
also 3.6 seconds for a max CT
outer cairn
Damage is still there. It’s these overlapping mechanics that are getting me. Like back to back runes with Jarl chasing me. Like come on.
glass tulip
the holy trinity boys, I've got it all
outer cairn
I’m holding 1.2 mostly now. But damn.
glass tulip
you got this bro
outer cairn
I can’t even get to the 5 min mark cause of shit.
glass tulip
outer cairn
I’m back at work. Figured I’d do some pulls over lunch.
cerulean nest
is the whetstone good outside of fatty pulls m+?
like is it even relevant for raid
subtle tundra
yes, its very good on 4/10 fights
cerulean nest
soulrender KT Sylv fate?
outer cairn
I’ll just stream later and maybe someone can give me some better tips for survival but feel like I’m getting bad overlaps or just screwing it up somewhere.
solid venture
soulrender KT Sylv fate?
Not really worth on sylv cuz p3 dmg is the only thing that matters
I'd rather add painsmith to your list
cerulean nest
if I'm being real...I got it on my very first run, simmed it and it was a mega downgrade, so I gave it away lol. but im just progging KT and Sylv, we arent reclearing, and I dont care about m+
still feel sick about it
solid venture
It's just a pad dmg trinket really
solid venture
Yeah for m+ obviously it's the best trinket to have but in raid I would never use it unless I wanna do hard padding for parses
small basin
ye
fleet anchor
I'd rather add painsmith to your list
I would argue it's really good for parsing on Painsmith but not really super useful.
I mean padding on the adds is like the most unimportant part of the fight unless you have a really AoE-lite comp
spice spire
I would argue it's really good for parsing on Painsmith but not really super use...
It also depends on damage profile given in raid. Yeah you pretty much said my counter point in the second post
fleet anchor
All just depends on what you are going for I guess
spice spire
Like adds for soulrender live with my guild, so whetstone is actually almost necessary I feel
TFW no green rogue 
fleet anchor
Realistically it'll be good for parsing on any fight that has "burst AoE" profiles that let you get more damage in than average
Trinket is somewhat overrated in a way but can be pretty strong when you sync it with above-average target counts to multiply the value
Which means it's probably worth grabbing just because it does have a rather unique niche
cerulean nest
well that makes me feel better
like I said, we arent reclearing any more, so I wont miss parsing
fleet anchor
I am curious if they do nerf it though, because the blue post the other day said they were looking at some of the Legion trinkets
spice spire
Wasn’t that pertaining to mage tower though?
fleet anchor
Wonder if they make it split+scale AoE like every other AoE trinket
spice spire
It was in a post that was focused on scaling to the tower - specifically faulty. Unless I’ve also missed a blue post
fleet anchor
and trinkets that come from Legion Timewalking.
To me, I was reading between the lines a bit there that it could come with tuning changes to those trinkets specifically
It was in the context of the Mage Tower but it could end up being global tuning, who knows
spice spire
I thought as well - but since it was on a post pertaining to the mage tower I thought, eh 
If it is a nerf, cool, if not
fleet anchor
Historically the fact is that Blizzard has nerfed almost any good item from TW in the past. (Ask me how I know... RIP every trinket I've ever farmed from TW lol)
nocturne torrent
Hey friends, wanting to knock the MT out on my rogue alt was just curious you would recommend being the easiest? I did Sin back in Legion
spice spire
I’ll still farm because faulty is neat - and whetstone does fill a niche that we don’t have elsewhere so eh
fleet anchor
spice spire
Hey friends, wanting to knock the MT out on my rogue alt was just curious you wo...
It seems the outlaw rogue tower is the easiest if you’re familiar with the spec. I think the assassination one is fine though
Much harder than legion at this point
outer cairn
It seems the outlaw rogue tower is the easiest if you’re familiar with the spec....
What makes it the easiest?
fleet anchor
(I remember every DH in Legion farming the shit out of Skardyn's during first TW week only to have Blizz nerf it to the ground 2 days later lol)
nocturne torrent
okay so I should probably try outlaw
gusty mirage
(I remember every DH in Legion farming the shit out of Skardyn's during first TW...
so you're telling me I have hope to skip the grind
fleet anchor
I’ll still farm because faulty is neat - and whetstone does fill a niche that we...
But yeah probably the safe bet is to try to farm them anyway and see what happens
But who knows
gusty mirage
spice spire
What makes it the easiest?
Less of a damage check, seems many outlaw players got it within 10 or so tries, while assassination has had a few people take several several hours to do so
spice spire
But yeah probably the safe bet is to try to farm them anyway and see what happen...
No harm in farming rn 
gusty mirage
No harm in farming rn <:happybear:629579632349413387>
spice spire
Except for @gusty mirage ‘s mental
fleet anchor
so you're telling me I have hope to skip the grind
lol I mean maybe some hope. I do think Countermeasure is overtuned atm for sure when they changed the coefficient late on PTR, but honestly no clue if they will view it as enough of a problem to change.
Whetstone being like the only uncapped AoE trinket right now is kinda funny too
But no idea if they view it as a problem or not. The argument Blizzard usually makes is just availability being a problem
gusty mirage
that's my issue with it too, the fact that it's only around for 2 weeks
spice spire
March isn’t it?
tidal gorge
I don't know why they haven't made timewalking rotate every week in parallel with the other weekly things tbh. There are enough timewalking eras now that it would make sense to be its own thing
ember mural
it's every 3 weeks and they have to cycle through 6 expansions now
gotta cycle in the pet battles 
spice spire
18 weeks circa 4.5 months yeah?
fleet anchor
I didn't see it on the calendar but maybe I missed it
fleet anchor
Hmm interesting
outer cairn
Less of a damage check, seems many outlaw players got it within 10 or so tries, ...
I’ll check out a guide and may try it. I’m still pretty familiar with outlaw. Sin is just giving me a rough time with mechanics.
fleet anchor
Actually could be pretty problematic for them to have that stuff strongly tuned in a way, since mid-March may be with the new seasonal ilevel
And would be really strong early in the tier
vestal wren
they did cut the intervals a bit shorter to my knowlage
gusty mirage
with zero bad luck protection
gusty mirage
they did cut the intervals a bit shorter to my knowlage
yeah they moved it from once a month to once every 3 weeks
fleet anchor
atm Countermeasure is likely the strongest budget trinket available so unless the new raid comes with an even stronger trinket it's gonna be very very good for next tier ilevel
Fusion Amp is really good to begin with
gusty mirage
because a 246 countermeasure being 150+ dps over an amp is ridiculous
spice spire
Tickling sack
gusty mirage
even w/o the frost shards it was simming 120 dps higher for me
spice spire
The goat next tier, trust
spice spire
Yeah it’s a bit of an over budget trinket
fleet anchor
For its ilevel it's busssted lol
vestal wren
didn't they nerf sack already once?
spice spire
Imagine If mastery were good
gusty mirage
I'm not sure if they even bothered
because it wasn't super problematic at 233 ilvl
but next season they'll definitely have to
vital haven
iirc they did nerf it
spice spire
Yeah if you stacked sacks it was absolutely bonkers
gusty mirage
Yeah if you stacked sacks it was absolutely bonkers
fleet anchor
I think once they fixed that it was fine, but very overbudget for its ilevel
If it scales from M+ drop it'll definitely be like very high on the chart lol
spice spire
Even for MT, it’s very good
fleet anchor
Honestly So'leah's could end up being very good too
But it will depend on how the budget scale ends up being for next tier
gusty mirage
I hope so, it's kind of cool
variety of gearing is always a good thing
I wish they'd put that idea into trinkets
rather than Phial and insert random raid trinket here
gusty mirage
It's not super critical for this season
but but I need the extra deeps 
spice spire
shy dust
rather than Phial and *insert random raid trinket here*
Raid trinkets are usually cool
Don’t you dare insult the memory of Coral and Inkpod
fleet anchor
Raid trinkets are usually cool
Laughs in Uldir
fleet anchor
hahaha
gusty mirage
Don’t you dare insult the memory of Coral and Inkpod
I miss coral 
shy dust
World boss trinket*
fleet anchor
Coral was so good
gusty mirage
what I don't miss is the dollar store version of coral that flag used to be
fleet anchor
Yeah original design was obviously "inspired" by Coral 100%
gusty mirage
gusty mirage
I remember asking how to best use flag in December
gusty mirage
"Yeah you kinda just don't press it"
like damn dude I made a great choice here
meaningful choice
shy dust
I miss the original KT trinket that was a scuffed coral
fleet anchor
Yeah I'm very glad Sephuz was able to be coaxed into spending time to redesign it when they brought him on to help with Rogue stuff mid-beta.
shy dust
Till they reworked it like 4 times
gusty mirage
Sephuz will be sorely missed
obsidian aurora
any legion item/set worth getting raid/m+?
fleet anchor
Yeah Sephuz was a champion. They brought him on for beta and I linked him the bugtracker and he fixed like 20 issues by the end of one day. 🤣
Not even joking
gusty mirage
I killed his named demon in d3 yesterday and just got sad
spice spire
any legion item/set worth getting raid/m+?
Faulty countermeasure - Vaults
Whetstone and signet of melandrus - Court of stars
gusty mirage
^
tidal gorge
That sounds impressive Koji. I wonder what his secret is
gusty mirage
Probably a combination of passion for his work and being damn good at what he does
fleet anchor
Haste buff was part of the theme, obviously 😛
tidal gorge
Yeah, it does have a nice ring to it
tidal gorge
Stop missing all my puns Oxi 
fleet anchor
Yeah I was really sad when he left WoW the first time. I'm glad we got a little bit of his work for SL before he disappeared forever, but we'll miss him for sure.
gusty mirage
Stop missing all my puns Oxi <:peepomad:585733840954458124>
I will choose to be deft if I want to be
https://twitter.com/johnyangx/status/890648580196769792 the greatest irony in wow history
fleet anchor
haha
glass tulip
do you think he has Sephuz's Proclamation? 🤔
fleet whale
kind of surprised that he didn't get Sephuz's secret. Leggos were being given out like candy back in 9.3
drifting cloud
I dont see thoridal on that pic fake news
gusty mirage
I dont see thoridal on that pic fake news
don't you speak ill of our lord and savior sephuz
HE WAS ALL WE HAD 
ruby oyster
kind of surprised that he didn't get Sephuz's secret. Leggos were being given ou...
that was before patch was released iirc
near bane
as lvl 60 the assa challenge feels way easy btw
still I die from Banshee's Wall
sometimes seems like the hitboxes are broken
gusty mirage
ye its best not to greed the edges
just take the L on damage and stand in the middle
near bane
it is wise to keep Sigryn full blind?
glass tulip
Usually you want to break her out
Only after 5:00 minutes is when I would leave her in blind to be conserving your cooldown for the overlaps
gusty mirage
yeah I only kept her in full blind toward the end when I needed to stabilize hp or when overlaps started getting hectic
gusty mirage
np, gl on the tower 
near bane
do you hero on pull?
near bane
haha
edgy orbit
I'm just waiting to see if the nerf it a bit tomorrow.
fleet anchor
I kinda wish I had some videos or something of me doing it in Legion. That's all been lost to time. I saw that Reddit thread a bit ago breaking down the difference in DPS requirements for the tank ones.
I don't think it's 2x the damage requirement for the DPS ones but I think it's definitely higher in a general sense
The DPS check for the Sub one for example is just notably tighter than when I did it initially in Legion
glass tulip
Missing blood of the father also didnt wipe you
according to guides I tried watching when I tried it on ptr
fleet anchor
I think it wiped you if you were too late on it but not nearly as quickly as now
glass tulip
yeah the one I saw they missed like 3-4 ticks and blinded and leeched back up in like 3 hits
balmy condor
But you needed everything
fleet anchor
I definitely remember dying to it the first time I did it in Legion and didn't know wtf was going on and let it full cast lol.. but on the current version you almost need to be sitting it, which wasn't really the case before.
I was kinda shocked how fast it killed me the first pull this time
balmy condor
Yeh
fleet anchor
wtb longer Blind range
echo geyser
swap to outlaw
fleet anchor
<:monkascheme:585734083590750219> swap to outlaw
I tried that but for some reason it put me in a different challenge 🤔
echo geyser
thats what i get for reading without context
fleet anchor
hahaha
But yeah, Rogue ones are totally doable. I think some minor nerfs will be fine but I think they'll probably be pretty conservative about adjustments
arctic walrus
fleet anchor
I'd maybe nerf the damage output of the mobs a little bit for the Assassination one if it were up to me. Sub one probably just needs a tiny HP nerf in P2. Outlaw one probably similar to the Assassination one that they just need to tone down the damage output a bit to compensation for the fact that Outlaw sustain is garbo compared to Legion.
Considering Feint pants were kinda the go-to for both Assassination and Outlaw in Legion for these types of cases, it's not really a comparable situation for HPS
Also like Assassination got the DR effect from Crimson Vial and such too which was nice
radiant gale
Would getting the 8.3 cloak or HoA be worth it just for the mage tower?
Rogue didn't exist until SL so I never got those originally and I know it's not needed but are they kinda worth it?
fleet whale
I beat the sin challenge back in Legion without feint pants. I did have Prydaz however
radiant gale
Legion leggos are disabled too right?
radiant gale
Wait there's an enrage on this thing?
fleet anchor
Would getting the 8.3 cloak or HoA be worth it just for the mage tower?
Cloak is only a very minor budget advantage
HoA is a large one though
fleet whale
you also may want to use BFA shoulder, helm, and chest
radiant gale
So HoA is worth snagging? Got it. I can do that
fleet whale
cause of high primary stat budget
fleet anchor
Get ~20 secondary stat for free by using HoA over a normal neck
limber lion
is the enrage
I personally like the enrage because it forces you to optimize your damage on the encounter instead of blinding Sigryn and letting him sit the entire thing
radiant gale
I'd 100% do that strat too
limber lion
Yeah, doesn't really work :P
gusty mirage
I think you just do the intro to the story
then talk to some dude near the port
and go to the heart chamber and its insta level 50
fleet anchor
Yeah you shouldn't need to upgrade it or anything I don't think
radiant gale
The neck thingies are disabled too yea? Cause not in BfA anymore
fleet whale
yes otherwise it would all be faceroll lol
fleet anchor
Yeah the only reason you'd really use it is that HoA is just mega over budget
small basin
I personally like the enrage because it forces you to optimize your damage on th...
tbh i did this and still managed it lol
as i was getting slapped
radiant gale
Would the stats increase from default ilvl50 if it were higher?
fleet anchor
I remember when everyone was using it during SL beta raid testing and when it was scaled up to CN ilevel it was hilariously better than all the other drops
fleet whale
If you still have the mop cloak sitting around, that may help too slightly
fleet whale
damn I didn't even perma cc silgryn back in legion
only blinded when i had too, so i could do more damage
radiant gale
I want to perma CC him but idk if I could burst him down fast enough
For the Blind, should I let it fall off or just Blind and then hit again?
near bane
do you keep rupture on 3 targets?
noble coral
they def dont need to nerf the hp on sin
i didnt even use drums or pots
and easily did it
small basin
You CC'd Sigthe whole time and still did it?
yeah p much
noble coral
no timewalking gear
radiant gale
Remember what your dps was?
noble coral
1.1
radiant gale
Ouch I think I'm barely managing like 600 on some attempts
outer cairn
i've tried this and can't seem to keep 1.1 with just the two but idk
radiant gale
I'm just bad then lol
radiant gale
Oh I should run Subter? I was running MA
small basin
subter for sure
outer cairn
i keep dying to overlaps
small basin
its a cleave fight
outer cairn
runes 2-3 times in a row
radiant gale
EP or Poisoner?
small basin
poison
radiant gale
1, 2, 1, 1, 2, 2, 3?
radiant gale
Mkay
gusty mirage
free damage
and energy
small basin
just went haste/ vers gear mainly
radiant gale
And when am I Kidney Shotting Jarl? Whirlypoo?
gusty mirage
for fixate and whirlwind
radiant gale
Oh I just kited him during his enrage
small basin
then kidney when you have > 20 seconds to the next mechanic
gusty mirage
Oh I just kited him during his enrage
ye you'll have to sometimes
radiant gale
I did every time lol
Certainly am glad the HoA takes only 3 minutes to get
And when is a good time to use Vanish?
small basin
on cd for garotte x 3
radiant gale
Got it. I thought so but wasn't sure if there'd be a better time
Does Bigwigs not have the timers for this?
outer cairn
381k. i had to hit the hard time enrage because they all 3 kept empowering
radiant gale
Neck can be rank1 cause it's ilvl is 55 yea?
outer cairn
need more CT is probably where the damage was. jarl so close to dying too. at least its a bit more manageable if you kill him
small basin
whatevr it is
radiant gale
Yea know that. I'm just checking that's what you meant with having the neck
radiant gale
Maybe not you specifically lol
outer cairn
do they all just empower at 5 mins and thats it or do they keep empowering until you hit the 6:30 enrage?
because that seems a bit outrageious
small basin
they all start casting shit at one point
then they hard enrage and the main boss hits you really hard
placid radish
for more items
gusty mirage
<@!192059095279337473> why are ppl doing these
Better chance at non shit items
echo geyser
ayo
outer cairn
yeah i'm gettign to the 5 min mark, but that shit is just unbearable. if jarl ain't dead you only got like one chance otherwise. fucking hate this
timber gale
Finished sin challenge with abt 1:40 of attempts with Pod, unbridled fury, and a black dragon scale. had 18% leech which helped a ton - super fun fight
outer cairn
wish i could see how many pulls i have
timber gale
CT was my highest damage source; feels like keeping it up on everyone at all times is the most important thing
timber gale
Oh I honestly … had some really deep attempts mostly forgetting to snd
radiant gale
Oh word. Bigwigs had an update to readd the Mage Tower
timber gale
My brain prio was like, CT / FoK for poison, then garrote people, then ruptures - and make sure I vanish on cd for subterfuge
Opener was basically garrote all 3, fok CT, apply rupture to everyone, vanish garrote all, then try to get another CT - by that CT is when jarl started his first bs
If it helps anyone else, I actually evasion’d his first cast and then kidney shotted as it dropped - there’s 2 sets of runes during his first cast
And when I just stunned and ran off I found he could get close to a rune
So keeping him there and stunning him later saved me a lot of hp and had them in a good position to keep up CT after Sigryn’s blood
Shiv + SnD was for the shield, and I vendetta’d on CD any time I had just finished doing a mechanic
radiant gale
What poisons we using? I've been switching between Deadly and Would
steel ridge
Deadly ofc (this is pve)
near bane
I fuckin HATE the RNG movement of Axes and Fel Pools
they hit always too much right or left
and you can't predict them 100%
and ofc when happens they almost fuck up your try
jesus
radiant gale
I get screwed on the healy orb being in a pool lol
outer cairn
366 and jarl dead. fucking idk what i did i think i cloaked to kill jarl and take valks but then the shield had not gone off yet or something but my cloak stopped like a second before his bvlast went off. goddamnit
radiant gale
Cloak immunes the dark wing thing?
radiant gale
Oneat. Might try to save for that in case
outer cairn
but shouldn't use it if you can get in teh gap. which i got greedy
subtle tundra
<@!192059095279337473> why are ppl doing these
some people actually play for fun, wild though ik
radiant gale
I've been trying to use it for runes so I can just skrt skrt
glass tulip
I feel like stevie wonder trying to see the boss mechanics on the ground in Court of Stars
echo geyser
some people actually play for fun, wild though ik
shit i think vault is hella hard compared to cos
subtle tundra
its a 1 boss dungeon
more or less
you get past first boss, its free
if you know the mechanics, of course
gusty mirage
ye
and if you can get past first boss you should be able to clear the rest of it
it's just about not dying
vault is actually kinda free outside of first boss
charred wraith
i like how in dung journal it says to press defensive and pray if he transforms into a havoc demon
near bane
when usually you have one of the adds of the challenge dead?
I think my dps suck
can't get one killed in 6 min
outer cairn
i can't do this anymore. i can't even go more than 5 pulls without getting furious
strange python
Listen my son
outer cairn
andn now i'md eads in the instance and i keep getting dcd
strange python
Persevere through the darkness
You can’t let those 3 ruffians chuckle in your face
Focus brother
outer cairn
i can't even login. everytime i login i go to hit release and i get disconnected. thats how broke this shit is
strange python
near bane
i can't even login. everytime i login i go to hit release and i get disconnected...
it happens, just hit release as fast as you can
and persevere
as the arms challenge this one is just a matter of flawless execution and luck
glass tulip
this was our arms warrior. Perfectly uses a health pot to get one last global that gets the kill on it @near bane
near bane
this was our arms warrior. Perfectly uses a health pot to get one last global th...
yeah, mine was pretty close to this
glass tulip
ready for raid 
spice spire
slow marsh
ready for raid <a:NUT:839531569671569489>
fixed it for you
gusty mirage
fixed it for you
slow marsh
Still no ring though so joke's on me
normal mist
druid tank MT done! yey
slow marsh
You have CE don't cry
gusty mirage
don't tell me how to feel
slow marsh
i didn't
gusty mirage
slow marsh
I told you what to do. Big difference. I could never tell you how to feel brother
slow marsh
Just say you're a nerf believer
golden basalt
druid tank MT done! yey
I’m still planning on doing it for my alt, haven’t played much guardian before though so low-key scared
deep solstice
Is MFD still oversimming, or people just choose not to play it?
golden basalt
there are some items that WILL most likely carry you
any suggestions/hints?;)
normal mist
any suggestions/hints?;)
pod trinket from first boss EN and HFC ishkar trinket (intellect one, can confirm the name later) besides that 3 azerite pieces (head/shoulders/chest) and druid artifact weapons so you can double oil and double enchant
oak sky
Is MFD still oversimming, or people just choose not to play it?
Choose not to play it, dont know, or are too lazy
hollow river
Is MFD still oversimming, or people just choose not to play it?
Over simming?
deep solstice
Someone had said there was some APL issue a little while back with MFD
hollow river
It was under simming
deep solstice
ah
that makes more sense. It used to be roughly equal to vigor in my sim. Now 100 dps ahead
oak sky
Yeah there was a new optimization to use it during flag a couple months ago
A lot of us have been running it since it got figured out
deep solstice
I have been as well, I just like to double check
oak sky
^this
bleak spoke
slow marsh
maybe
deep solstice
been trying for countermeasure. But after 71 CoS and 20 vault, I am out of steam for this
glass tulip
I got pity trades from a paladin tank or I'd still be going
deep solstice
did you gem it?
glass tulip
am i missing something? ring sims at a 50 dps loss for me
change the sim to "Nightly" instead of "Weekly"
The ring's passive has not been fully implemented into raidbots yet
jaunty kayak
stupid question, but wth does DP stand for in the pins? it's been stuck in my head forever and still dont know what it means.. is it duskwalker's patch by any chance?
glass tulip
Duskwalkers Patch if I am not mistaken
deep solstice
Deadly would make more sense
jaunty kayak
aaaahh, that would make a lot of sense
fleet whale
considering he refer's to duskwalkers as just "dusk"
jaunty kayak
considering he refer's to duskwalkers as just "dusk"
exactly what i was thinking
thats why the dots werent connecting for me
deep solstice
WTB enhance shaman and Countermeasure. Sin simming actual numbers.
jaunty kayak
cheers lads 
glass tulip
I simmed top gear and it wants to me play faulty countermeasure / salvaged fusion amp with bs/ds 🤢
deep solstice
I dont even sim BS. Trap.
glass tulip
WTB enhance shaman and Countermeasure. Sin simming actual numbers.
you already get KA and PI's with your 259 daggies what more could you ask for 
deep solstice
Only in heroic sales. Usually
our loc and boomies cry if they dont get pi in mythic
deep solstice
And regardless of their sims, I actually get close to mine, and they do not. lol
glass tulip
the math checks out
thorny pond
Just don’t do mechanics. Just sit on boss
golden basalt
pod trinket from first boss EN and HFC ishkar trinket (intellect one, can confir...
Aight this sound great, gonna look into it, cheers mate
radiant gale
Do I need to use Shiv on Jarl so he can stop smacking me the heck around after my CS ends?
Cause his enrage crap
golden basalt
Shiv doesn’t remove it
Save kidney for it
And use evasion to stay in his face and continue dps
golden basalt
are you using master poisoner as well?
radiant gale
Yea
golden basalt
you can kite him quite hard and then shadow step to Rune dude to keep damaging
All in all once you get the mechanics down it’s a VERY tight dps check to beat the fight
So focusing to keep 1.1k dps + is the way to beat it
radiant gale
Peak at like 800 :\