assassination

[timid cloud]

It’s actually Gengar.

[solid venture]

gengar isnt even a psychic pokemon

[sonic schooner]

Gardevoir

[junior rampart]

mewtwo

[soft shale]

there is a man in jail in a gardevoir related problam maybe he was a sin rogue

[viscid spear]

Alakazam drips so much it needs two spoons to lap it up

[thorny pond]

https://tenor.com/view/kendo-shinai-bonk-doge-horny-gif-20995284

[viscid spear]

Hitmonchan used Feint!

[nocturne geode]

"Hitmonlee used shadowstep"

[slow marsh]

It's for sure Gardevoir

Tapu gang is maybe close but that meta was so annoying I forget they exist

[hexed frost]

Yes i'm not going to lie it works. 11 weeks of 2/10 M and 8/10 H and no daggers. Do 3/10H one week and bam!! Dagger

[fallen arch]

Mewtwo, and not even close

[bleak sky]

I saw you applying to my guild chief

[balmy condor]

He’s making the rounds

[bleak sky]

He's trying to bench me >:(

[gusty mirage]

there's only one way to solve this

trial by combat until the death

[balmy condor]

That’s what he’s trying to do with me as well man!

[bleak sky]

TOO FAR MAVVERICK

[gusty mirage]

I know a guild on zul'jin looking for a rogue

[slow marsh]

kekw

[limber lion]

The 4p is definitely interesting after having tested it out a bit

Changing pandemic timers during Vend and having to reapply bleeds just before Vend runs out goes hard

[gusty mirage]

I just wish they'd shift away from envenom being a big part of our damage to make it feel less shitty

ya know

they pigeon hole us into a certain playstyle for like 4 years

then they release a 4pc that should fix it but it just feels bad

[slow marsh]

Yeah it's a nice change of pace and benefits us if you can pull it off

[gusty mirage]

maybe this is the way

[slow marsh]

i just dont like that it's a bug and not intended so it could in theory get 'fixed' and we lose a lot of power because of it

[gusty mirage]

if they fix the bug they buff the shit out of the 2pc

[slow marsh]

test with CT in ST bruh

[gusty mirage]

they're not going to leave us with a net dps loss from 9.1 to 9.2

fuck CT in ST

[slow marsh]

I was doing a lot more dam with CT in ST testing last night

pretty much only envenom as a true filler / keep snd up

[limber lion]

But it's in our hands to choose whether or not we want it to stay or not.

[slow marsh]

true

[limber lion]

But yeah, it's definitely a new way of playing

And I find it interesting

[slow marsh]

I wouldn't mind it tbh I just think if they could do a x2 tick rate or at least x1.5 tick rate then it'd be slightly better idk

[limber lion]

Trying to find ways to maximize dps during Vend windows just got interesting

Instead of slamming a Vend down

and continuing the normal rotation

[slow marsh]

Yeah I like hte way it forces you to think that's true for sure

[limber lion]

But I think that's the interesting bit

If only the tick rate changed, nothing would change

like our rotation would be exactly the same

[slow marsh]

Fair

[limber lion]

The effect is what makes it interesting

And changes the rotation

Having played the spec for 5 years now

I think it's fair to get a bit more flavor

[slow marsh]

No I agree

I just wish we had more ways to spend cuz even with a 50p generator it's still rough

Even gemming full mastery it's a bit rough at points

Without lust

[limber lion]

Yeah that's true, Mutilate is a pain in the ass

It's the nature of the class unfortunately. An expensive generator and a gcd cap of 1s.

Now if TO's AR gave gcd reduction

then oh boy

[thorny pond]

Okay Push

[limber lion]

wut

[thorny pond]

He’s on the NF copium

[limber lion]

He stole my bit?

That bitch.

[lime edge]

Bring back expedient

[thorny pond]

He’s parsed well this tier because he’s push and people see him as Nf and think they can copy

[limber lion]

Playing with Subterfuge is definitely interesting with this set

You have to hold Vendetta slightly so you can get 2 full empowered garrotes and a third garrote just before Vend ends on the last second

Instead of overlapping empowered garrotes with normies

[slow marsh]

how are your flags though @limber lion

[limber lion]

I mean, I'm playing Duskies without Obedience

so it's kinda whateve

but I'm 100% sure we'll play MfD next tier.

[slow marsh]

well yeah but i mean just in general

i agree

it's too hard to get high stacks without it

[limber lion]

DS is too slow and Vigor is too much energy

MfD is perfect

[slow marsh]

also mfd rupture in vendetta

[limber lion]

DS requires so many generators, Vigor just overcaps everything

[slow marsh]

or mfd ct

[limber lion]

Yeh

Guess I'll give CT a go now

[slow marsh]

I mean i'm pretty confident that if they make 2p buff bleeds any more than than the 1% it is now then CT will be the play for everything

[limber lion]

Gotta say

I'm not a hater of CT

But it's definitely omega quick during Vendetta's

[slow marsh]

Yeah it is

but all our damage is bleeds in vend now anyways so

[limber lion]

Would need better weak auras to track this shit, my pack is garbo

[winter vapor]

do you pause a bit when doing opener with MFD?

[bleak sky]

for a brief moment yeah

just arcane torrent there and you're good

[slow marsh]

just torrent 5head

[bleak sky]

if it's during lust you probably don't need it

it's just the first garrote that feels a bit starved

[slow marsh]

I thought you used afenar

[limber lion]

I do yeah

I use a modified one, but the one I use in ptr is the default Afenar

which hasn't been updated since 9.0

Also not a big fan of how CT is up there

Much rather throw Slice out of the main frame

[slow marsh]

yeah

if we end up using CT in ST perma like I think we will then i'll move it in for slice too

[limber lion]

If CT is the play, I'll have to switch em up yeah

[slow marsh]

Or I might take shiv out and put it there

[thorny pond]

CT during vend gets refreshed what, 4 times if it clips ?

[limber lion]

Let's just say you won't be using Envenom during Vend

One cheeky Envenom to maintain SnD but that's about it

But yeah, idk, we'll see what happens

Really depends on what happens to the 2p

if anything

[thorny pond]

So it’s looking like 8-10sec before vend is up you’ll want to env, build CT build again then depending on your tier 30 talent vanish rupture (NS) vanish garrote (subt) then build and you will need to build to CT almost immediately

[prisma carbon]

CT in ST is wack

[thorny pond]

It used to be that way for a bit

[limber lion]

Yuh

[nocturne geode]

[thorny pond]

But if we take duskwalkers we’ll have some timing conditions to hold flag/vanish, but Dw in theory gets vend to line up with shiv better

[nocturne geode]

my brain is going to hurt getting used to this

[limber lion]

The gar/rup clipping is the biggest thing honestly

You have to think about it good 10s in advance so you don't fuck it up

[thorny pond]

Need to see sims but we’ll prob also need to drop a shiv in there somewhere. My guess is it depends on your tier 30

Like #slamshiv may have one condition now

[slow marsh]

MA isn't completely out yet though I think, we'll have to see when we get double leggos

[golden basalt]

Bit late to the party but are you using subterfuge in this scenario then instead of MA?

[nocturne geode]

yes

[thorny pond]

My guess is DW since our 4pc is more damage the more time we have in vend

[slow marsh]

Cuz with MA you almost guarantee 1min flat flag with vanish whereas with subt you can really only get like 20-25

I mean the talent

[thorny pond]

Yea it depends. I just think an empowered rupture or subt garrotes are going to outwork the 2min MA

[slow marsh]

Subt is huge no denying that at all but with obedience it'll just come down to efficiency again i think

[limber lion]

Subterfuge

[slow marsh]

I think it'll be subt over NS almost every time

[dim bough]

Anyone got a good summary for AoE rotation/priority?

and/or opener?

[limber lion]

depends on the covenant quite a bit

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/assassination-rogue

[thorny pond]

Also though obedience is a nice addition, we’ll probably line up flag with vend since we’ll finish more

[limber lion]

The wowhead guide covers it pretty well

[golden basalt]

Was playing around with subterfuge as well, feels pretty good but it’s as you say, vendetta window becomes really different then the current MA meta

Gonna take a while to get used to

[limber lion]

I love it

[thorny pond]

I’m just spitballing here

[limber lion]

Gives me a lot of incentive to theorycraft

[thorny pond]

Yep ^

[slow marsh]

I'm spitballing ideas to myself that if we can get consistent 50sec vends like we are right now in ptr then is losing an entire vendetta worth lining up with flag every time

[thorny pond]

I like the idea of saying fuck flag. We get obedience (maybe TO dream alive)

[golden basalt]

I don’t mind it, refreshes my interest in the spec

[thorny pond]

But I think NF may have a case just because the resource gain from TO will be big in our vend windows

[slow marsh]

NGL Cev should hold on to his TO take a bit longer cuz that meme could become reality

[thorny pond]

And NF also is a positive feedback with DW

[limber lion]

I mean, I swapped to NF on retail

and I can't swap back

I have no choice but to dedicate to the meme

[golden basalt]

[limber lion]

If Sepsis wasn't dogshit then I would gladly play NF

[thorny pond]

Sepsis feels like poo but the cov may be big

[limber lion]

I like TO

[thorny pond]

TO DW MfD Sin may be pretty big

[slow marsh]

I feel like it's gonna be one of those things where dusk + 4p is too good for it's own good

If they fix TO to reduce global

during AR

we could get closer to 40-45 sec vendettas

[thorny pond]

DW reduces based on spent energy. TO gives more energy regen in our biggest return window

[thorny pond]

Don’t even need that part

[golden basalt]

NF is the only covenant I haven’t touched, does the “free stealth cast” from regular sepsis give empowered stealth bonuses like subterfuge?

[slow marsh]

Kinda cuz we can't spend fast enough right now

during vend you're almost hard capped the whole time

[golden basalt]

Or is it just free ambush

[slow marsh]

no that's the biggest reason why it's bad

[golden basalt]

Yea that’s dog

[slow marsh]

that and the soulbinds are bad

[brazen zodiac]

Hi ice

[golden basalt]

Dream weaver could potentially be pretty good no

[brazen zodiac]

How r u

[thorny pond]

The new vend 4pc will be huge churn. But TO also benefits more so from the ShB extra CP

[golden basalt]

Field of blossoms a pretty big haste bonus

[slow marsh]

but we are clearly getting a ton of power back into our vendetta whereas currently in retail flag is our biggest cd

[limber lion]

Just an ambush

It's not free

So you never press it

[slow marsh]

So if we get vendetta on 45second cd and full send venth loses some value

[limber lion]

You let the Sepsis buff run out

[gusty mirage]

fae is kaka

[limber lion]

instead of using the proc

[golden basalt]

ah

[slow marsh]

Unless duskwalker 😮

[golden basalt]

So Blindside is just what sepsis wishes to be

[slow marsh]

no arguements there

[thorny pond]

Flag just won’t have good synergy in a system where we have one big window and if it doesn’t line up it’s average. The cov that gives best return on that vend window will be the play

[slow marsh]

That's what I mean that dusk + 4p will be so good that it makes obedience worse

[thorny pond]

As of now kyrian could but no
NF has good soulbinds and TO can pop

[slow marsh]

Kyrian is our worst option

[limber lion]

The fact of the matter is that Sepsis is just bad.

Flag does more damage and it gives haste

[golden basalt]

I’d like TO if it gave AR and ShB on cast rather than expiration

[slow marsh]

The most probable outcome as of right now is we just play venthyr and full send everything on cd

[thorny pond]

In practice yes. 7pt Rupts and CTs for low cost in vend would be really good but good luck gaming the system for all 4 anima charges

[slow marsh]

the soulbinds are also kinda not great for us

we would end up using mika

[thorny pond]

My Greek feathery friend would like a word

[slow marsh]

but not have giga apm like other specs

[thorny pond]

Pelagius stealth buff

New arbiter

New aoulbind tree

[slow marsh]

kekw

[thorny pond]

No more doubt

Just giga cdr

[rotund oak]

[thorny pond]

Every slot is a potency

[slow marsh]

I would mind pela mastery build massive ruptures

but NF is better than kyrian and NF is trash still so yeah

We would play deathspike necro over both of those

[thorny pond]

I talked to Oxi a bit about a theoretical shift in sub towards mastery but sin will be haste crit forever because of resource churn

[slow marsh]

na

crit mastery looking good right now

[thorny pond]

Potentially.

[slow marsh]

like from my pov we have too much energy nothing to do with it in vend

[thorny pond]

Haste is tick rate, very minimal energy return

Tick rate is more energy but also more big dam dam

[slow marsh]

it's a lot when you have over 100% in cds

it's so much wasted energy

[thorny pond]

Just don’t waste it nerd

MfD

Or bust

[slow marsh]

gcd capped it's impossible

[nocturne geode]

the issue is you cant not waste it

you literally trained energy in cds

[thorny pond]

Move feint off GCD. Problem solved

DW buff right there

[slow marsh]

feint on cd to generate for dusk pog

[limber lion]

NS breakdown is pretty.

[subtle tundra]

YOU'RE PRETTY

caps

you're pretty*

[slow marsh]

tru

[limber lion]

ty u2 hun

[thorny pond]

You know what will be fun… asking for PI outside of vend for better cdr

[slow marsh]

true

but it's auto going to demo

already

[thorny pond]

Not if I cut the power to our warlocks house

[slow marsh]

we would have to beat demo burst + fire mage burst which doesn't seem to be an option right now

[thorny pond]

What if your warlock sucks

[slow marsh]

gkick

[thorny pond]

Simp for your priest

Be the raid lead

You have options

[whole mason]

Does 4pc speed up sepsis?

[limber lion]

Yes

Or

well

it should

[slow marsh]

demo locks are already trying to arrange payments for pi

[limber lion]

but it's bugged

[thorny pond]

No more bad attitude Ice

Warlock can eat my taint

Ranged do mechanics

Melee do damage

Simple

[slow marsh]

I will say if we somehow can get vend down to 30s with PI then sure but idk if that's mathematically possible with our 1s gcd

[arctic walrus]

[thorny pond]

I don’t feel capped with PI outside of vend

It flows nice

[nocturne geode]

i saw talks of nf rogue now im scared

[slow marsh]

don't be scared

[thorny pond]

Embrace

[slow marsh]

everything will change when we see what the 2p changes will be anwyays

[thorny pond]

Nah

[nocturne geode]

i dont have enough compium stored

[thorny pond]

2pc will just get aoe love

[slow marsh]

well not everything. we will still run dusk+cov

[whole mason]

Not possible

[limber lion]

Hey cutie, how's your day been so far?

[arctic walrus]

THere is nothing to do!

[whole mason]

U need to spend 90 energy per second

[thorny pond]

I wish alacrity wasn’t a thing

Tune that row

And give us something good

[gusty mirage]

don't talk about my child like that

[thorny pond]

It’s a lazy design. It was good for OL. We need a spec defined row there like sub

[gusty mirage]

I mean its good for assa too

[thorny pond]

But we get the generic shit

[limber lion]

[gusty mirage]

just exsang fucking blows donkey dicks

and so does venom rush

[thorny pond]

Yea

Tune the row

[gusty mirage]

leave alacrity and add good choices for the other two

[thorny pond]

And change alacrity to idk, hemo

Alacrity will always get chosen

Always

So even if exsang and VR were good

[slow marsh]

no we need to spend 45 energy / second consistently for 90s to get 30s vendettas

[thorny pond]

Like last I checked DS is last in that tier for sub

[whole mason]

If it is 30s cd vend, you only have 30s to spend

[bleak sky]

!oil

[prisma monolith]

Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ

[slow marsh]

So we pretty much need to be gcd capped for 90s. We're already gcd capped during vend so that's -20. Figure out a way to have energy for every gcd for 70s and we win WoW

[thorny pond]

Nap time. DM me more crazy ideas

[slow marsh]

we'd have 10 seconds to spend before another vendetta but I don't think it changes the overall math but idk i'm not a nerd I just like to break things and make the nerds re-crunch the numbers

[whole mason]

You activate vend, it starts cd for 120sec, you want it to be a however 30 sec one, you need to spend 90*30 energy in 30sec.

[slow marsh]

K well sure then you win

All I know is that we can get it to 45-50 seconds without lust

[stable ibex]

theotar or nadjia for keys?

[limber lion]

Theo

[stable ibex]

thank you

[limber lion]

:)

[grave scroll]

so for ass rogue

9.2 = necrolord?

[iron orchid]

nothing's confirmed

as it stands right now, on ptr, with only one leggo, it looks fine but i ain't even sure it's working properly

[grave scroll]

so i can stay nightfae on my alt coolcool

nf is bae

[limber lion]

9.2 is the only covenant we will 100% not be playing.

Even if it gets mega buffed, it's not happening with Deathspike being a thing.

[iron orchid]

True

[slow marsh]

inb4 all the fights have mega adds and deathspike isn't as bad as it seemed at first esp with emeni

[obtuse robin]

[gusty mirage]

only way they can save it I think is seli's idea of having SBS stack but that'd be so broken in other content

[slow marsh]

i mean full hopium take would be they use minimal effort to fix our tier ste then work on covs

[gusty mirage]

that's a tall task in 2-3 months of work

they still have to tweak new content & the tier sets, etc etc etc

then they have to balance pvp and shit around double leggos

and then new m+ affix

[slow marsh]

yeah ik that's why it's like ultimate hopium

[limber swallow]

could make it so consecutive hits on the same target do reduced damage, so it's not completely broken to have the bonus hits hitting 1 target and it's also not completely useless in single target

[viscid spear]

More like Slowpoke

[nocturne geode]

SADGE

[viscid spear]

Don't worry I still love you mostly

[slow marsh]

The only way you could really "fix" necro for 9.2 would be either entirely rework deathspike or rework sbs to not be infinite bleed

[hollow river]

Give it a duration but make it do more dam

Still think DS should make the initial damage multiplicative to a certain stack threshold

[charred wraith]

why do you touch the dot?

[spice spire]

Because snapping it infinitely creates the exsang bug from before

[slow marsh]

because the fact that the dot is infinite is a problem for balancing around it for ST

If it's a timed dot with increased damage then deathspike as is gains more value

[charred wraith]

its already unaffected by anything, isnt it?

[spice spire]

It is

Before 9.1.5 exsang worked with it

After seven apps it was 9k dps passively and like crashed the game

In PTR mind you

[charred wraith]

idk about 9.1.5 chief

[spice spire]

Also

9.0.5

Used to .3s being the finale

[hollow river]

So wait

Vendetta 4p is doing the same?

[spice spire]

No

[hollow river]

O ok

[spice spire]

It doesn’t interact at all

[hollow river]

Good

Umm

U sure

[spice spire]

30 minutes of testing says yeah

[hollow river]

Nvm

[charred wraith]

well if they couldnt find the solution so everything is great

[hollow river]

I misunderstood the pin

Don’t hurt me

[slow marsh]

yeah the bleed does the same amount of damage it's not getting hasted at all

[spice spire]

Ur good

Why would I hurt you for misreading mr. no trickz 🤨

[hollow river]

People be flaming over some random shit lately idk

[spice spire]

People want NL to be good which is the source of the discussion

[winter vapor]

what if they had it stack up

to a limit, with applications

[spice spire]

Can’t blame them either, love the gameplay

[hollow river]

They’d have to rework deathspike for necro to be good

That’s the biggest issue

[slow marsh]

yeah that was an idea already

[spice spire]

Among other things as well

[charred wraith]

i want it to be good too, but like lets adress the 99% of this problem, the deathspike

[slow marsh]

The issue lies more in the fact that the ability itself is created more for spreading to other targets

[hollow river]

I literally just said this if you scroll up 🙂

[slow marsh]

and then the leggo also wnats to spread to more targets

[winter vapor]

aw, my bad, didnt see it

[charred wraith]

and not stretch attention to minor things such as sbs dot

[hollow river]

The dot is very important wdym?

[slow marsh]

I mean fixing either or would make necro viable at least

the reason it's a non starter is because both exist together

[hollow river]

The dot is the majority of its damage

Iirc

Is it gets hasted like it should during Vendetta it’d do nearly twice the damage

[slow marsh]

it still wouldn't be enough

[charred wraith]

comparing the impact of the legendary on covenant performance and sbs working not as intended

[slow marsh]

to make up for playing deathspike in st

[hollow river]

Idk I hope the 2P is reworked to make our aoe bleed spread better

[slow marsh]

i highly doubt we get spread aoe anything

[charred wraith]

unless vendetta wont snapshot exsang effect, sbs interaction will stay like this

[hollow river]

I mean this is obv but it’s still an issue

The only gripe I have with rogue

Is not being able to blast aoe like the majority of wow classes

[slow marsh]

we'll be able to blast aoe if you really want to

you just lose too much in st to do it

[hollow river]

We’ve got multiple dead talents which is also a gripe, but many classes have dead talents

[slow marsh]

you can go necro deathspike + zold and blast add fights

but if we get brought to raid it'll be for ST prio with 4p so not worth

[hollow river]

Yeah but it won’t be worth

On prog for example

Yeah ik

And duskwalkers+Obe

If that is what we end up using we will be ST monster turret

[regal star]

If I don't have crit tea, should I swap to Nadija?

[limber lion]

Depends on the fight

But you're safe to use Theo with anything but Agi tea honestly

[limber lion]

Just need to get that 4p first

First week 4p, ez

[slow marsh]

ikr

[oak sky]

Clear normal clear heroic we got that bag baby

[thorny pond]

Just get fed tier

Is it tokens again or pieces?

[oak sky]

I dont think they said yet

Tbh what i was expecting is armor type pieces that adapt based on your class

[dry mural]

could I go Zoldyck over obedience for M+ as a venthyr. or is obe just that much better? doing like 18-20 key range. any opinions?

[oak sky]

Zoldyck is better for aoe, but obedience provides more st and prio

So depends on the key, week, and what your group or team has in the comp

[thorny pond]

Just bring back OG tokens. Incentive for more leather if it’s by armor type

[oak sky]

Idk what it used to be its just the first assumption i made

[thorny pond]

It was like warrior hunter shaman monk
Etc

Rogue was with mage Druid and Dk so it’s sucked for a it

[oak sky]

Maybe they go back to who shared a weapon token in nathria or something

[slow marsh]

In interviews they said they're leaning towards pieces not tokens but it's not final yet

It was brought up specifically in an interview why not tokens and they were like blah blah blah we're stubborn blah blah we will maybe think about it if everyone wants them again

[thorny pond]

I see
Master loot and tokens plz

[glass tulip]

@gusty mirage @bleak sky @balmy condor I'm making all the rounds, I already got agogf and hagl but I'm not sure which Min is in

I've applied to about 20 so far

[balmy condor]

oh no

he applied to hagl

he doesn't know

[gusty mirage]

[slow marsh]

I don't know either

[balmy condor]

first reclear they brought buyers, failed miserably, sold an item that a main raider needed, and then had like half the raid team leave

one of which is oxi

[glass tulip]

F

[gusty mirage]

some good folks in hagl

that's all I'll say

[glass tulip]

Is that why jawnathan wanted me to trial this week?

[gusty mirage]

well I just left

so they need a rogue

[balmy condor]

[gusty mirage]

I'm still friends with a ton of peeps in hagl

jawn removed me from bnet after I told him I'm taking another opportunity

[glass tulip]

I just want a place I can have fun and CE raid

[balmy condor]

oxi pulling out all of the lawyer pleasantries

[gusty mirage]

nah dude zombi, simple, and envy are homies

really good players too

[gusty mirage]

I mean they've gotten CE two tiers in a row

[slow marsh]

I feel like if you're a good player you'll never hate on someone taking a better opportunity

[gusty mirage]

all I'll say is there was some decisions I disagreed with, and that lead me to move

plus I hate ZJ

[slow marsh]

Well I'm on thrall now and idk how I feel about the est server vibe

[dawn ivy]

leadership of a guild can get really miffed that one of their best players is leaving them for something better because its an indirect insult to them

but gz on big moves @gusty mirage

[glass tulip]

Moving to zj sounds like a pain

A52 is where it's at

[gusty mirage]

thank you sir now I gotta compete with you on illidan

[glass tulip]

Where you at now oxi?

[slow marsh]

Fair but then I'd say it's that's just bad leadership take. As a leader it's a sign of success when people under you are moving up

[gusty mirage]

Back in March on Illidan

jumped up a few hundred WR

[glass tulip]

Oh I applied to them too

[slow marsh]

Leadership feeling insulted that someone is taking a better gig is just insecurity

[glass tulip]

Literally went down the list

[fading wigeon]

Are you guys all horde?

[dawn ivy]

statistically, most

but there are some alliance among us

[fading wigeon]

Ah ok

Wondering if the raiding scene is really better on horde. Or a perception thing

[slow marsh]

Alliance scum

[dawn ivy]

oh it is

[slow marsh]

It is

[dawn ivy]

100%

lol

[oak sky]

@gusty mirage new guild guy?

[glass tulip]

Horde raiding is far more popular

[oak sky]

[fading wigeon]

I may need to make the move

[glass tulip]

In NA

[gusty mirage]

yessir

[fading wigeon]

Maybe next patch

[oak sky]

Gz

[dawn ivy]

there are only 12 alliance guilds in the entire world 100 of SoD

so while it doesnt matter for most

its a glaring issue

[oak sky]

Probably mostly oce

[dawn ivy]

yep mostly oce and asia

[gusty mirage]

[oak sky]

[arctic walrus]

I loooove consequence

[slow marsh]

There's only like us 4-5 ally guilds in top 2/300

[gusty mirage]

I hear they have 2 really good rogues

[slow marsh]

I guess it's not too bad if you get in because you pretty much run the entire faction

[oak sky]

Vel, an alliance raider only missing m+ great vault loot

[arctic walrus]

only 1 left after me and rae quit

so apply apply apply!

[gusty mirage]

ah yes, the good doctor stands alone

[oak sky]

Are you guys going back for 9.2

Or just done

[balmy condor]

they're joining limit

[oak sky]

Quit =? Join limit

[balmy condor]

max loves rogues so much he actually recruited 3 for next tier

[gusty mirage]

yeah rogue in limit?

[slow marsh]

No shot limit is stacking rogues lmao

[gusty mirage]

warm up a nice bench spot

[arctic walrus]

quit =? come back for 9.2

[gusty mirage]

so essentially quit

[oak sky]

Fair enough vel

[gusty mirage]

Vel you actually quitting tho?

cmon man

who's going to dunk on me when you're gone? skip?

[oak sky]

[arctic walrus]

i mean i'll probably still play but I doubt i'll have time to raid

[oak sky]

Zad

[gusty mirage]

we're losing the goat guys, pay your respects

the man who discovered the mfd stonks

[oak sky]

o7

[bleak sky]

rip rogues

o7

[balmy condor]

o/

no salute from me

just an au revoir

[gusty mirage]

is it because of the master p is ner?

[slow marsh]

O7

[hollow river]

o7

[bleak sky]

damn this guy got a big ass head

[hollow river]

Fr

[slow marsh]

Ofc I do

[bleak sky]

to accomodate the big brain

[slow marsh]

It's to fit my big ass brain

[bleak sky]

[gusty mirage]

if your brain is swollen pls seek medical attention

[slow marsh]

It only really swells up when I'm watching your stream

[gusty mirage]

yeah well I warn you right in the description

[hollow river]

[slow marsh]

I never said I was complaining

[gusty mirage]

Sign this waiver pls

[slow marsh]

K

[gusty mirage]

[slow marsh]

No but really grats on your move

Can't wait to see your streams with better gamers

Cuz you'll have to come up with new stuff to blame wipes on

[hollow river]

[gusty mirage]

There's good gamers in my old guild

[slow marsh]

True

I didn't say they weren't good bro

[gusty mirage]

jeez

I'm 6th sin rogue in m+ on illidan

lost my 2nd spot

[arctic walrus]

I am your sleep paralysis demon

[slow marsh]

Geez

[gusty mirage]

@dark token

[slow marsh]

I'm prolly like rank 50

[gusty mirage]

I'm 72 overall

wtf

this server's full of gamers

[dark token]

Nice I haven't done a key in 3 months

[dawn ivy]

i miss being on prodmoore and just casually being in the top 5

[dark token]

Sin ranks were so scuffed

[gusty mirage]

I miss being on mannoroth in bfa where 1300 was #1 lmfao

[dark token]

I was #3 world @ 2500

[gusty mirage]

it was me and like 33 other people on that entire server

[gusty mirage]

LIAR

[dark token]

Oh yeah I did 2 keys in 9.1.5

[gusty mirage]

I actually recognize these names on the leaderboard

on ZJ I didn't know anyone on the leaderboard except for Ryfie and Ivanrah

[slow marsh]

Same tho

I'm 74 and 24 in specs and I have like one 20 timed

[dawn ivy]

my highest key this entire expac has been an 18 and it was day 1 of 9.1 when my old team needed a rogue

i gotta get back into m+

[slow marsh]

Same since I guess you can use it as part of apping to higher wr guilds

Might help make up for my lack of history if I at least halfway tried to push

[gusty mirage]

I mean

you'd have to push super high

for it to matter to top guilds

[dawn ivy]

but a decent 2400ish r.io score would be able to show people you know most of your class and can probably detect some sorts of dangers around your character

[slow marsh]

Easy

[dawn ivy]

but yeah youd need to be mdi r.io for it to matter to giga guilds

[gusty mirage]

idk I've met some terrible 2400 io players

like actually awful

pugged most of my way to 2544

[dawn ivy]

ktb brought in a couple of MDI guys round the same time i got invited

was kinda

[glass tulip]

key pusher is not always a good raider which seems strange

add padding andys

[dawn ivy]

i think its a mental thing

for raiders, raid is a weekly thing you HAVE to take a little seriously

but as a key pusher even when i was actually pushing r.io last expac, there were random pug keys i would basically int in

because i just didnt really care, didnt use consumables, got hit by shit because i was just not in the zone

[gusty mirage]

ye plus like you purposefully try dumb shit in higher keys

to see what you can get away with to cut time

[dawn ivy]

yeah

[slow marsh]

Yeah I mean m+ is side content so it doesn't mean nearly as much but I don't have anything else to do rn until new ptr stuff comes out so may as well try and beat oxi in sin io

[dawn ivy]

[glass tulip]

pushing IO lost my interest bc I dont have a group and pugs just hurt my soul

[dawn ivy]

i think if this next seaosn is even decent, ill jump in and maybe pug a decent r.io

when i transferred to horde, losing all my connections killed my drive

[gusty mirage]

last guy who tried that got dunked on

good luck

[glass tulip]

what are you at now oxi?

[gusty mirage]

2491 sin/2544 overall

[slow marsh]

Yeah well it could be a fun father son adventure

[gusty mirage]

I aint ya dad

still my fav key of the expac

[obtuse robin]

dam nice melee tech

[balmy condor]

[oak sky]

Im top 20 on tichondrius

Or i was

[hollow river]

there are HELLA 2400-2500 players that aren't even AOTC

[oak sky]

Once im on winter break its gonna be push szn and monk gearing szn

[glass tulip]

I think im gonna alt warlock for 9.2

flavor of the month

[hollow river]

i was thinking the same

sadge

[oak sky]

We dont even know the fotm class for 9.2 yet

[glass tulip]

demo lock 100%

[oak sky]

Nothings final

[glass tulip]

theyre already stronk

[hollow river]

i mean warlock is always fotm

wut u mean

[oak sky]

Always makes it not fotm

Its a hero class

[hollow river]

fotm every month

[oak sky]

Its like saying mage is fotm

[hollow river]

it is tho 🙃

[glass tulip]

top 20 A52, twinsies

[gusty mirage]

mage is the true hero class of wow

[oak sky]

M+ and raid and pvp hero

[gusty mirage]

name one patch where mage was bad at anything in the game

I'll wait

[oak sky]

Warlock is just a raid hero

[hollow river]

wasn't it kinda meh in CN ST?

or am i trippu

[gusty mirage]

probably just accepted their propaganda

"WAHHHH WE SUCK WAHHHH"

[drifting cloud]

in bod mage was bad 😛

[hollow river]

[gusty mirage]

didn't frost mage make stormwall like ez mode tho?

[dawn ivy]

yeah bod was probably the closest to mage being bad

and then mechagon came out and fire mage became instantly better than every class in the game

[oak sky]

Fire was op in nathria until it got nerfed

[hollow river]

oh

[gusty mirage]

and then they found another magical 1k dps hidden in the bushes

and were fine again

[hollow river]

i started playing in CN, really late

[oak sky]

Yeah over and over fire mage has gotten nerfed then magically been good again

[gusty mirage]

"Oh would you look at that, we found a SMALL gain of 7%

"

7% is small gain for fire mage

[hollow river]

🤯

[oak sky]

Its like

They found dc

Then they got straight buffed in 9.1

THEN they found skb

[gusty mirage]

meanwhile we're sitting here losing our shit over the fact that we had an 11% legendary in obedience

and it got nerfed

[hollow river]

[gusty mirage]

and that deathspike was massive in m+ and now is useless

[hollow river]

like actually just fun detected bullshit

[gusty mirage]

nah its just rogues aren't allowed to be strong

[hollow river]

i will never understand how they do that kinda shit

[gusty mirage]

idk what it is

fire mage and warlock are allowed to reign supreme

because ya know, pure dps classes and all

[oak sky]

Its not like rogue is bad this tier

[hollow river]

nah it's not

it's just stupid stuff like

fire mage can do close to same boss dam while also padding insane on adds

[gusty mirage]

no for sure they gave us some love

but

like I just want one tier where we're just the best

[hollow river]

demo lock can do same boss dam, and still has potential to pad on adds

sin rogue is just bad at padding on adds unless they live long enough

[oak sky]

You want to make everyone else mad 😈

[hollow river]

but we're king boss dam

[gusty mirage]

yes, yes I do

[glass tulip]

without borrowed power from dom shards assa is nothing right now

[hollow river]

want to /spit on my foes

let them eat my dust on the damage meters

[gusty mirage]

I found a work around, you /point at them and then spit on the ground

tune in next week for more toxic gameplay tips

[oak sky]

Dont think this is true

Our baseline is still good

[hollow river]

or just /e Spits on ------

[gusty mirage]

it stings more when you do 2 emotes to get the point across

[oak sky]

We just need a competitive tier set

[gusty mirage]

ya know?

[hollow river]

hmm

[glass tulip]

Yeah idk, losing 15% damage by not having frost set will feel real bad I think

[dark token]

Assa was still pretty good ever since 9.0.5 venthyr buffa

[oak sky]

^

Only thing is a few classes got buffed since then

Sub, fire, etc

But we still havent seen what tuning is happening with 9.2 so its all extremely up in the air

Once double leggo testing and final tier sets are ready we can make more definite assumptions

[prisma carbon]

still waiting on the 500% buff to toxic onslaught

[hollow river]

in current stages sub and sin still looking decent

[gusty mirage]

pls no

let fae die

[hollow river]

outlaw needs some help i think

[oak sky]

Mmmm

[gusty mirage]

put it on a raft, set the raft on fire, and send it out to sea

[oak sky]

Their 2 pieces is a good start to their damage

[hollow river]

i barely tested in ptr though

[gusty mirage]

nah the 2pc is massive

4pc needs help

[hollow river]

my outlaw was doing 1k less dps

but i def wasn't playing optimally either

had like 500 ping

can i go to any dummies i want in PTR?

in oribos i was lagging like fuck

[gusty mirage]

yes

[hollow river]

kk

[gusty mirage]

I went to the valley of honor ones in org

less people

[hollow river]

if i get time ill go to org and test again

[oak sky]

Theres hella rogues in sinfall

Or there were

[hollow river]

wish there were items you could get to give you raid buffs on PTR

[slow marsh]

Cuz rogue stacking isn't fun for them even though its kinda hilarious

Anyways if I'm being completely honest

I think that rogue could be very stackable if our tier changes go well

Stackable as in 2-3

[hollow river]

Atm the only thing looking stackable is demo and fire

[slow marsh]

Obvi depends on comp but just eyeballing the journal it seems like rogue will be pretty great towards the end of the raid

Well yeah demo and fire are bussin

[dawn ivy]

it depends on if warrior is good or not

[slow marsh]

It's still really early and it's heavy copium but I'm getting a sense that rogue funnel could be really good

[dawn ivy]

and i think arms is kinda dooky but fury sounds like its decent

[slow marsh]

Yeah I think we are directly competing with war / dh stacks from sod

I just think we will do better prio dam and live forever

[hollow river]

Without frost and blood

[slow marsh]

Yeah

[hollow river]

The true rogue tank tier is over

[slow marsh]

The good rogues will still live forever

[hollow river]

Fosho

[dawn ivy]

dh sounds like they have a really boring tier set but still does great

and its good st AND cleave

idk if their blade dance build is also the windfury build, but if it is, theyre certainly in the race for melee

[bronze pike]

dh tier set is wonky

[slow marsh]

Blade dance is more windfury than the eyebeam build

[hollow river]

Anyone got a link to the rogue tier set feedback thread

[slow marsh]

Pins

[bronze pike]

the discord is in flames because it doesnt push venthyr at all

and its "lower damage without firstblood"

[slow marsh]

They don't realize how good it is cuz they're too stuck on cycle of hatred

[bronze pike]

i do agree at a point that if a tier sets kills multiple builds, then its kinda lame. but overal everyone plays one build anyways despite dh having 4 overal competative builds

exxactly

dh will say "bla hblah we have 4 builds, then play venthyr eyebeam build regliiously all 9.1.5

then when new tier and patch pushes a new build its a issue. chaining 4 super blade dances in a row with the 4pc is fun lmao

it kinda sad that if anyone expresses any thoughts or opinion that the dh tier is fun or good, you'll get flamed to oblivion, even in the feedback thread. legit toxic wasteland

[slow marsh]

It's just how dh works

Then they try and claim windfury slots

[bronze pike]

im claiming them on my ret paladin, yummyummy free wake of ashes

[arctic hare]

I like them on my rogue

Slicendice go brrrrrt

[kind turtle]

Which soulbind tree do you take if you're raiding with Necro-Frost?

[balmy condor]

Heirmir

And then after raid is done you go back to torg to grind venthyr renown

[kind turtle]

ty, left-middle-left?

hahah TRUE

[balmy condor]

Whatever the 2 potency is with gemstone

[spice spire]

This would upset me if I knew how to read

[balmy condor]

How’s the obedience coming along king

[spice spire]

I only like to equip on the grue ig

While in in heirmir ofc

[nocturne geode]

dont lie whispyr we know nf gonna end up best

[balmy condor]

[nocturne geode]

someone spilled the beans earlier

dreamweaver is bae

[echo geyser]

[balmy condor]

I’m boutta rewrite the mage tower guide to the exact opposite so you all struggle harder than necessary

[echo geyser]

!remindme 3months

[small basin]

do we hold vendetta for shiv at all?

[balmy condor]

Shiv for vendetta 12 seconds

[small basin]

ok

but not the other way aroudn if that occurs somehow

[nocturne geode]

apprently some of the theory crafters in short were haveing trouble getting venth ability to line up properly so in theory venth could lose alot of value

[balmy condor]

[balmy condor]

Correct

[thorny pond]

You okay boss? Seem stressed

[balmy condor]

I’m actually mad chillin

Boutta take a nap at work

[echo geyser]

@balmy condor have a good nap

gz on CE btw

[balmy condor]

Tyty

[nocturne geode]

@balmy condor what are you thoughts on stats after haste so far? i read earlier that mastery and crit are really close now

[balmy condor]

That’s the early look yeah

[fresh kernel]

What is looking best for sin in 9.2 for covenant, still century?

[balmy condor]

Pins

Tldr yes

[fresh kernel]

Lol auto correct venthyr

[balmy condor]

I would assume with 4 set haste would be less important

But it’s really hard to estimate

Cause it obviously isn’t just energy, it’s dot tick rate

[nocturne geode]

i see

[balmy condor]

Atm tho early sims have stuff probably pretty close

[marble hemlock]

Non-believer

[balmy condor]

Cope

Bury your bone spikes

[thorny pond]

Cev and I will be NF TO slammers

Enjoy being virgin vampires

[marble hemlock]

I'm gonna bury my spike somewhere where you won't like it

[thorny pond]

https://tenor.com/view/horny-bonk-gif-22415732

[small basin]

i hope they redesign death spike

[balmy condor]

Hamburg?

[small basin]

i love necro

[thorny pond]

Selne, M+ is for you

[small basin]

true i dont really raid atm so maybe its fine

[thorny pond]

Venthyr will have two legos with some synergy
I’m big hoping NF copium

[small basin]

im gonna be pissed if i have to remake leggos again

[slow marsh]

I want NF to be good just because I prefer options

[small basin]

i like sepsis, esp with niya you get the big bleeds with the mastery

[thorny pond]

The cov one swaps now as you change. You get cinders and dust now when you destroy current lego

[small basin]

yeah its the gold man

[thorny pond]

Toxic Onslaught…. Let’s fucking go!

[small basin]

AR feels so much better on assa than it does outlaw to me xD

[thorny pond]

Probably because you aren’t getting the GCD redux

[gusty mirage]

its back

if you didn't get my ping earlier

[echo geyser]

[oak sky]

Pog

[small basin]

do we still pool on envenom if playing CT, like in m+?

[balmy condor]

Yep

But in aoe you just have infinite energy so no point pooling there obviously

[small basin]

sometimes my shiv is coming up and i have the option of using CT or waiting for shiv with higher energy

thats why i asked i guess

[balmy condor]

Shiv on cooldown always

[small basin]

yeah yeah i mean like

i can use CT low on energy and have no energy during shiv

or pool energy for shiv window

cos i know you dont use CT during shiv

[hollow river]

in aoe you'd CT even inside shiv iirc

[balmy condor]

Yes

[small basin]

yeah this is ST

sorry didnt say that

[fallen charm]

is it worth to use crimson tempest instead of envenom on 4+ targets?

only for the instant dmg

[oak sky]

No

You only use ct for the dot at all target counts

[fallen charm]

but why?

because of the poison application buff?

[oak sky]

Well you would spread ruptures in aoe to as many targets as possible

You only envenom if all the targets have dots or to maintain snd basically

Or a prio target

[fallen charm]

yeah I know that part

but let's say I'm with 5 mobs

all with rup

and snd is up

isn't ct more dmg?

[oak sky]

No

[fallen charm]

on 5 targets ct deals 5k instant dmg and envenon deals only 3k

[hollow river]

on 5 targets you will very rarely find yourself with any time to envenom for no reason

you will only really be using it to keep up SnD

other than that you'd envenom the target with the highest hp

[small basin]

envenom refreshes snd and increases poison chance

[hollow river]

CT doesn't ever get cast for the instant damage, until you're on really high amounts of targets

we're talking 10-12+ iirc

[fallen charm]

yeah I just realised that it's also physical dmg

so even on 5 targets it's like 500 extra dmg

better to evenom

[hollow river]

yep, better to envenom

in 2-8 targets you just upkeep the CT dot

[oak sky]

Even past there you just refresh a little earlier its not like you spam ct as filler

[fallen charm]

the duration is so low that it's hard to waste

[nocturne geode]

mission accomplished timed a +23 as nf LOL

[oak sky]

congrats!

you gimped yourself

@nocturne geode how did it feel

[small basin]

man when you get vers/ agi tea like 4 times in a row

feelsbad

[nocturne geode]

felt good lol

like a real accomplishment

still did decent overall too

[oak sky]

about how much

[nocturne geode]

around 12.5k

[oak sky]

what key

[nocturne geode]

mists

group wanted anf

and we didnt find one that qued fast enough so i swapped

/ shrug

[oak sky]

oh did you have it leveled

or just send

[nocturne geode]

i have it leveled bc i wanted the xmogs and stuff

[limber lion]

Good

[noble ingot]

how do you sim a specific tea from theotar ?

[balmy condor]

Shadowlands.party_favor_type=primary/versatility/crit/haste

Pick one of the 4

[noble ingot]

ty

[quaint carbon]

on what slot should i craft Dustwalker ? (in case for next patch)

[balmy condor]

Not sure yet, looking like boots

But you’ll have to recraft it anyways for the higher ilvl

So not much of a point crafting it right now

[quaint carbon]

ah true

[versed mica]

whispyr I don't recall if I said this to you yet but I read your suggested changes to sin and they actually sound really nice and fun

blizzard hire pls

[balmy condor]

thank you

[late birch]

@balmy condor You got link where I could read your suggestions? Im reading some from some rogue called "Showbíz"

Kinda like what they suggested

[balmy condor]

Depends which suggestions @versed mica is talking about

I made a Google doc a while back

With a rework

That’s what I assume he’s referring to

[late birch]

Ah, still got that link with you then?

Dont see it in pins

[balmy condor]

Yeah I’m finding it hold on

[late birch]

❤️

[balmy condor]

#assassination message

Some of the stuff is pretty out there

Because the idea was partly radical change

So some hot takes

[late birch]

Some of blizzards suggestions were "pretty out there" pepelaugh

[balmy condor]

I made envenom a talent, that got a lot of people pretty madge the first time around

[golden basalt]

Now remove envenom entirely

[balmy condor]

I wasn’t willing to start a war

[golden basalt]

That’s one easy way to do it

How hemo was sub and not sin still baffles me

[balmy condor]

Sub multistrike lives in my head rent free man

[bronze pike]

Seeing hemo gave me flashbacks

[marble hemlock]

It's a pretty noisy neighbor.

[balmy condor]

Are you a sub multistrike enjoyer

[marble hemlock]

No

But i live in your head rent free too, sub is having parties all night next door.

[balmy condor]

What was wrong with wod multistrike

[marble hemlock]

everything

idk, i just never liked multistrike as a stat

[balmy condor]

I liked that it did something more interesting than the other stats

[marble hemlock]

yeah, but it also did a lot of broken things

its hard to balance a stat like that when some specs benefit from it much much more than others

[balmy condor]

Mastery = things do more damage
Haste = things do more damage but also some energy
Crit = things do more damage but some cp
Vers = things do more damage but some damage reduction

[marble hemlock]

i think stats like spirit/mp5 were nice things

imo every spec/class should have a stat that increases resource generation, and move that part out of haste for rage/energy/focus

and personally id just like a real rework of mastery, to not just be a better or worse versatility

[balmy condor]

I agree

[marble hemlock]

GCD reduction from haste is also smth that should go away imo, should be a separate stat that does it

bring back actual cast times for casters

[oak sky]

multistrike = do damage more times

[balmy condor]

Well there were passives on each spec

That made it interesting

Similar to crit

[willow prairie]

Bring back arm pen

[late birch]

I mean, trying to make the fantasy pure bleeds make sense to kinda remove/replace

[oak sky]

so ur saying seal fate makes crit interesting

[balmy condor]

Not really but it’s undeniably more interesting than it would be without it

[oak sky]

haste is interesting on every non rogue class

come to think of it

[marble hemlock]

it is

we're somewhat hamstrung by already having a 1sec GCD

[oak sky]

shorter cds/ shorter gcd/ shorter cast times

but rogues all get auto speed and sin gets bleed ticks

[marble hemlock]

weve seen some design issues with this in MoP for combat in particular

when combat had such a high energy regen during CDs, that you would overcap a large percentage of it

and the "solution" was to increase SS energy cost and damage, which semi-fixed that issue, but hurt all the combat rogues that didnt have great gear

[oak sky]

our mastery could definitely be better that would be top of my list if we could rework sin

[marble hemlock]

with the spec being abysmally slow to play

most masteries are really boring

sub mastery rn is particularly disappointing

since all the secondary damage effects make it so that vers is just straight better