assassination

[strange python]

Night Fae should be close though

[limber lion]

Necro is as good as dead

[strange python]

That lego isn't absolute trash

[limber lion]

Sure isn't, but NF soulbinds and Sepsis itself are trash

[strange python]

Yes if you compare it with obe

When we cast sepsis though, we stand in the pool and basically get 60% of a lust

in the one tree

Dreamweaver, that's pretty good

I mean - i'm not thinking it'll be top, just another option

[limber lion]

It's not great

[strange python]

I enjoy NF, necro, and venth so - i'm good either way really

Kyrian? 😦 pog

[limber lion]

Same, I hope NF does well

[strange python]

Kyrian is like - just frustrating to me

I'll animacharge 2 and just never be able to get it

As for like looks, feel, transmog, the actual place we go - i like venthyr the best but

[limber lion]

We've played Venthyr since 9.0.5, time for a change

[strange python]

So guys…. What do you think we’ll have as a new class on next xpac? 👻

[strange python]

Would be nice

They could still re-tweak the necro lego

that's literally all they'd have to do

Even something stupid - "While SBS is on your target, they take [x] increased dmg from your poisons"

a literal built-in balancing knob, so easy to tune

[vestal wren]

is there a covenant/legendary combination that looks promising?

[heavy trail]

Some folks are so mean, I applied to a +2 TOP as my 207 rogue and a guy whispered "WTF man get some gear you @# newb before joining mythics". Oh well lol

[strange python]

Obe/dashing-muti

To me - I think venth + doom/dashing and night fae + doom/dashing look most

[strange python]

Well, ppl usually sucks 🙂

[vestal wren]

double legendary will def. be interesting

[strange python]

lol - queue for 20's for 2 hours...finally get in one and watch 2500's die to the first boss til we're out of brezes

[vestal wren]

not sure if deathly works well on assassination

[strange python]

I just don't want to see necro die

[heavy trail]

I mean even at 200ish a 2 isn't really all that bad to try...

[strange python]

Not refering to you, I was meaning group leaders

They want a 250 guy for +2

Easy

well one of the issues is that there are people that are 240+ queueing for them you know

[heavy trail]

Sometimes when I am gearing alts or whatever to learn the rotation, I purposely do not invite parse lords because it trivializes already "trivial" content

[strange python]

Same reason our 220's can't get into a normal run until our io updates with our main hah

Yeah but I’ve seen 226 fire mage on Season 1 doing 2k overall so 🙂

I don’t know man

[strange python]

absolutely!

b00sted

lol i tried sub yesterday

in a +18

thought i was gonna get kicked

i dunno if my stats were bad (crit/haste) lol but I was not proud

[heavy trail]

I havent played rogue in a while but I remember trying sub in keys and found it to be kinda hard to get into and not that much fun. Maybe it's different currently but for whatever reason I have always found ass to be a challenge/interesting.

I can tell I probably wont smoke my survival/unholy on aoe burst but man, even at 207 ilevel I am dunking 220s in ST (though, not because I am great, but the other player not being so hot lol)

[strange python]

Sometimes I surprise myself with my aoe lol

It's usually running Poison Bomb though where I get the most surprised

[heavy trail]

TOP you run that over CT ?

[limber lion]

You should always run CT in m+

[strange python]

Just depends on how I feel...or maybe i see a monk and a boomie so I give up on aoe and just run it, i dunno. I dunno what the actual answer is - probably CT is always the best.

[limber lion]

No exceptions

[heavy trail]

@limber lion Thanks. Sorry bit of a newb atm since it's been ages since I played my R 🙂

[thorny pond]

CT is low cost good reward

[spice spire]

Just like speaking with you, beach

Always good reward

[thorny pond]

why thank you sir ⭐ you a real one

passing knowledge along to these open mind

Professor MakeItQuake

[gusty mirage]

[alpine radish]

Could be worse, sap second pack in mists 18 for the healer and 2dps somehow pull it while me and druid are getting shroom buffs to find them ded, do less than 8k on first boss and then give up in maze because they weren't good enough

Joys of da pug life

"we are gonna go down to 17" okay cyaaa

[dusty ether]

Salutations, I was curious if there has been any conversations about Kyrian Assa possibly being a thing in 9.2? I figured with the cov leggo + another it may prove to be powerful?

[thorny pond]

Just doesn't really fit the kit or set bonuses but it's too early to tell

We don't have as much CP control as OL and Sub so it's harder to maximize the potential as well

[soft shale]

the only bonus that has sinergy with the tier is the legendary duskwalker's

apart from that until ptr drops we dont know much

[spice spire]

Zoldyck’s 🤨

[soft shale]

if there is an execute fight true

although the tier seems kind of a joke

[spice spire]

Never forget your 9.0 roots where it was the best legendary.

I wish I could

It doesn’t seem very good, no

[soft shale]

it was not the best just good on denath

[spice spire]

I’m hoping PTR shows differently. In 9.0, before the Doomblade buff it definitely was the best lol

And it was dark times

[gusty mirage]

how

Oh

Nvm I get what you mean

[spice spire]

Classique oxi

[gusty mirage]

Shut up

[spice spire]

When emotes available king

Gotta use the juice

[gusty mirage]

Didn’t ask + don’t care + you play frost mage

[spice spire]

Real

[gusty mirage]

Haven’t had my coffee yet alright?

[ember mural]

get a room you two

[gusty mirage]

how’s work?

[ember mural]

[soft shale]

im the same i cba doing more emotes

hachadneko for life

also i suck at photoshop

[spice spire]

Nah oxi has some fire down the pipe

[gusty mirage]

Estimated time of delivery is December 5th should be done earlier though

[spice spire]

I was gonna say she seems like she’s close already

Can’t wait

[thorny pond]

Caramel frap shot chased with a double black espresso shot?

[gusty mirage]

Grande blonde roast with 2 shots of espresso. Black no sugar

[thorny pond]

I like my women like I like my gravy: thick and rich

[gusty mirage]

[small basin]

anyone playing mfd in m+?

simming quite a bit better for me

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/r9PCnrCSpcyzGEt8KDVwE9

[strange python]

Maybe your vers gems are throwing it off

[gusty mirage]

wouldn't throw it off by +200 gain though

[strange python]

yeah i know

[small basin]

yeah i dont wanna regem, cos i use the same stuff for pvp so

i changed the wrist gem to crit tho

[strange python]

Does the sim like start/stop combat though

[gusty mirage]

it makes sense because obedience mfd is better for ST

no it chains

[strange python]

I dunno, for me vigor just feels better for trash, etc.

[small basin]

yeah i really like mfd when it lines up with flag tho

and for starting pulls

[gusty mirage]

I've played both and they do similar damage, vigor just makes life easier because of the extra max energy

[strange python]

I always play what i like so

[small basin]

guess you can play either

[gusty mirage]

vigor makes it so triple garroting is easier

[small basin]

i prefer mfd so

[strange python]

and if what i like is too bad, i trick myself into not liking it

[gusty mirage]

yeah you definitely can

[small basin]

yeah you need max energy to triple garrote

with vigor you can do 4

[gusty mirage]

yeah so it's just a trade off of where you get the damage, mfd has a greater potential for damage because of the resets you'll get throughout a dungeon

so it's really just preference, plus assa aoe is kinda poo poo anyway

so in the grand scheme of things its whatever

play what you like 🙂

[small basin]

yeah

i really like obediance for tyran

[gusty mirage]

yeah, obe's really really good for tyran

plus zold is boring

[small basin]

yea

[gusty mirage]

and does nothing for the majority of the boss fights

[thorny pond]

It’s just a boring lego

[gusty mirage]

just like all our legendaries

[small basin]

yep

want something like greenskin

for assa

😛

[gusty mirage]

you don't enjoy "lol this does more damage passively" legendaries?

[thorny pond]

I enjoy dashing and dusk bc they affect the game play

Tf is doomblade and zolds? Slightly bigger stat sticks

[sinful cradle]

How does dashing affect gameplay???

[gusty mirage]

gives him an extra 2 apm

ZOOMIN

[sinful cradle]

Like ye huge aoe sure you can defo feel the slight energygain

[gusty mirage]

but those two extra actions per minute

[sinful cradle]

But your also just drowning in energy from all the bleeds you put up

[spice spire]

But the poison crit brother

Oh wait

Back to passive

[obtuse robin]

yo our savoir whyspr is not fucking around

@balmy condor excellent wowhead read

[limber lion]

Ty

[obtuse robin]

lol

[small basin]

duskwalker could be fun if vendetta wasnt so boring

didnt it have a dot in bfa with the trait

[thorny pond]

cleave mostly but yea energy regen rate in general is at least more fun vs "Do more damage passively"

Like it's not <<<<<<< better design wise but < in my opinion

[gusty mirage]

Yw

[deft vault]

yeah there was the trait nothing personnal that gave vendetta a dot

[slow marsh]

Thank you

[gusty mirage]

Yw

[thorny pond]

Oxi you are such a Chad

Phenomenal jawline

[spice spire]

Impeccable jawline tbh. Most chad rogues have them. You ever seen cev’s? Man could cut a diamond with it

[obtuse robin]

oxi face reveal

[thorny pond]

More RDJ is what I see

[oak sky]

@balmy condor banger writeup as usual

[balmy condor]

[strange python]

f'in rofl

he must do that ball chew exercise

like that's not even a muscle - that's bone

[obtuse robin]

that dude is the ceo of jawline

[strange python]

is it like real though, or did he have surgery or something

[obtuse robin]

appertnly real

[small basin]

need to be careful round those sharp edges

[quasi grotto]

linkkkkk

[balmy condor]

https://ptr.wowhead.com/news/rogue-9-2-tier-set-bonuses-guide-writer-first-impressions-325068?webhook

[obtuse robin]

really good

[limber lion]

It's okay

[fading wigeon]

I read it in the tub with a glass of wine

Candles and all. Good stuff

[balmy condor]

leftover pinot from thanksgiving?

[thorny pond]

Everyone thinks it’s wrong bc it obviously sounds good

[fading wigeon]

Hell yeah lol

[limber lion]

Should have sucked up to Ion plenty more, surely the devs read Wowhead posts

But yeh, a great read, would recommend

[obtuse robin]

as soon as i got to the napkin math i was straped in

[limber lion]

I've tried to put on some weight and I feel like all the excess fat goes straight to my chin and belly. Not a good look

[oak sky]

Work out + build muscle + W

[limber lion]

Whispyr forgot to mention about the insane nf nightstalker exsang build, but it's okay, we should keep it a secret from the public

[obtuse robin]

[limber lion]

Yeh the reason why I didn't work out more as a teenager was because I was so skinny. Now I'm normal weight but bodyfat percentage through the roof

Need to get on it asap

[oak sky]

Get it done cev

[subtle tundra]

ya got this

[spice spire]

Tbh I’d think playing the violin would put some toning there. When you streamed you looked great tho king

[cerulean nest]

fuu making subtlety sound a lot more appealing on first glance in that guide than sin

sad :/

not that it's amazing/perfect either obviously

[spice spire]

There’s some potentially good things for sub. I think whispyr’s write up was personally very fair in his criticism of “good direction, could be better execution but also don’t neuter M+”

[limber lion]

Quite the opposite actually :p

[spice spire]

Wow that’s sad. I guess because it’s a very sedentary job?

[cerulean nest]

oh yeah write-up wise theyre both nice. I just meant the descriptions of the tier sets as they currently stand

[spice spire]

Yeah, it just doesn’t seem strong

[limber lion]

Yeah well it's not common really. I think I got unlucky with loose chin-skin genetics. A lot of violinists do tend to get rash on their neck/jaw, which with healing might turn to unwanted fat. But not that much, usually there's something else behind it :p

The occupation being very sedentary is true, but definitely not as bad as 9-5 office work

[spice spire]

Ahhhhhhhhh and yeah Cev, trust me I know

[subtle gyro]

I finally got my Aotc guys! Recorded the kill 🙂 Thanks to all who have Pmed me and gave me tips on better play.

[limber lion]

Great job!

[subtle gyro]

Its on Youtube if anyone cares to watch it : : ) Not that its a big deal, but ive never posted kill videos before.

[spice spire]

Yo congrats my dude! CE next

[subtle tundra]

time to play a +26 without tea because great game design

[spice spire]

[bleak sky]

rolled crit tea 5 hours before raid so I can't play the game til then

[charred wraith]

what is this, wow classic

[balmy condor]

Venthyr gaming

[subtle tundra]

its fine, ptr goes up next week omega nf buffs we furry gaming

[balmy condor]

Fae stay dead

[limber lion]

TO gamers rise up

[subtle gyro]

Fae is still gonna be garbo

[limber lion]

Yo take that back

[jaunty steeple]

furry = bad

[subtle gyro]

ask nicely? : )

[kindred rapids]

any word on frostrime yet?

[hollow river]

Still broken afaik

[subtle gyro]

missing mah fatal flaw

[jaunty steeple]

yesterday I had a prog night on Sylv

I had

ONE

[hollow river]

Hope all my NA gamers had a lovely Thanksgiving

[jaunty steeple]

proc of frostrime

in 3 hours

[thorny pond]

You as well mr

[kindred rapids]

Does it still proc on healing or smth?

[jaunty steeple]

who knows

[kindred rapids]

MW was still getting healing from it

[jaunty steeple]

unsure if the brokenness has to do with rogue, amount of frost shards equipped, or what

[limber lion]

Thanks you too! :-)

[limber lion]

It breaks if you use the set.

The shard itself works fine

[jaunty steeple]

I think when I've run some keys with my healer who also had all 3 shards on, it still worked for them

but unsure

[subtle gyro]

are they even aware of the issue or?

[jaunty steeple]

[hollow river]

Hope the eu gamers also had lovely days q:

[jaunty steeple]

[timid cloud]

Frostrime works for healers, just doesn’t work for us.

[jaunty steeple]

[thorny pond]

I am a healer

[bleak sky]

so does this mean it works in M+?

or use set = equip 3?

[jaunty steeple]

doesn't work in M+

[bleak sky]

[limber lion]

Are you sure?

[jaunty steeple]

99%

I tested it quite a lot a couple of weeks back

[limber lion]

I've only heard of issues when using the set

But fair enough

[bleak sky]

where ramfam

[jaunty steeple]

ran multiple keys with Tel on purpose

just to see

[limber lion]

Yeh

Unlucky :'(

[weak socket]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/assassination-rogue

[strange python]

I went to go try this...and was disappointed when exsang didn't even work on sepsis

[spice spire]

[gusty mirage]

wait why would exsang work on sepsis

[balmy condor]

Cause sepsis is chemically induced inflammation of the BLOODSTREAM

BLOOD = BLEED

OOK OOK

[spice spire]

whisp, you aight king?

[limber swallow]

You shall address our king as Fu Zan, sir.

[balmy condor]

I don’t wanna write mage tower guide man

;(

[spice spire]

*OOF

[earnest hare]

is the best way to get dashing scoundrel now is to just use 2k research for the recipe?

[rigid pine]

Just put bleeds on everyone and feint to get healed for 20% hp

[balmy condor]

Yes

[timid cloud]

Stop please...you’re hurting me...

[earnest hare]

so with this i have 1 in 7 chance? https://i.gyazo.com/620e85576270bf3ae27730fdd8fcfbd1.png

[spice spire]

ye

[earnest hare]

or does it prio assasination spec first

fuckin ay

[rigid pine]

You can try getting some of the others that are account wide. I think they're bought from vendors, things like judgement of the arbiter or echo of eonar

[earnest hare]

how much research can u average per rift?

true ill try that

[sour wraith]

are you being forced to?

[balmy condor]

I mean, that’s how jobs work, yeah

[sour wraith]

oh didn't realize it was a job xd

blink twice if you're being held hostage

[balmy condor]

Wowhead pays xD

[sour wraith]

fair enough lol

[marble hemlock]

wait

wrong one

[earnest hare]

for the revered covenant legos, if im not that covenant will i still unlock those if use the research thing?

[marble hemlock]

meant to use that one

[oak sky]

Whispyr's writeup will make our tier set good

[balmy condor]

Like you don’t have to write two of them

[oak sky]

[balmy condor]

[spice spire]

true actually

get bent seli

[marble hemlock]

no i dont

we have writers for each challenge, not for each class/spec

so

[balmy condor]

seli doing the least

[thorny pond]

who has more xmas spirit? seli or whis?

[oak sky]

Seli

Cutie kitty

:D

[balmy condor]

I bring no cheer

no festivities

there will be (1) santa hat, mandated by tradition

[thorny pond]

Father Johan will eat you

[balmy condor]

all other christmas joy and jeer shall be devoured by the all hungering

[thorny pond]

So Whispyr is a venth

confirmed

[spice spire]

whispyr can devour me any day

ya feel

[thorny pond]

Did threads of fate, dungeon per zone and all WQs. Barely level 58

Damn

[hollow river]

Pretty sure WQs are the slowest way of leveling

Mostly side quests+dungeons

[balmy condor]

https://tenor.com/view/wink-blushing-cute-pretty-anime-gif-16146491

[thorny pond]

If they were in the area

[quasi scroll]

What am I doing wrong here? I used to be good at this... https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/jrfxW8FyJbpPLM7A/#fight=last&type=damage-done

[oak sky]

You dropped this 👑

[balmy condor]

no u

[oak sky]

😘

[gusty mirage]

don't be flirtin with my mans

[spice spire]

Bro?

[oak sky]

He deserves it

[gusty mirage]

YOU GOT SUMTHIN TO SAY?

[spice spire]

YEAH HOMIE

[balmy condor]

[slow marsh]

yo can i get in on this

[oak sky]

Yea

All are welcome in the sin rogue polycule

[spice spire]

Ice blades you got a wife homie Smdh

[oak sky]

True

[slow marsh]

o

i didn't realize it was like that

[oak sky]

Its not a joke

Its not a phase

[gusty mirage]

I'm telling val

[oak sky]

I'm telling all of your girls

[slow marsh]

why gify so damn big

[timid cloud]

[spice spire]

Hol up

[hazy beacon]

hello can you explain me a thing about covenant dudes?

it's like, I'm reading the suggestion to play Theotar in guide, yet most of the time I check assa logs I see Nadija

[balmy condor]

lot of people think nadjia is better because they sim really close, and nadjia in the past has simmed higher

but if you roll any theotar tea other than agi, theotar is automatically better

also thrill seeker is a dogshit soulbind ability and it should be considered a war crime to enjoy it

[marble hemlock]

hold up

[hazy beacon]

you meant Nadija is auto better?

[balmy condor]

no

I mean if you roll any tea

that is not agility

theotar is better

[hazy beacon]

I thought main stat tea is something we are aiming for... very well, ty

[balmy condor]

agility tea is really really bad

crit is like 160 dps better or something

[hazy beacon]

offtopic question-is it the same for sub?

tea-wise

[balmy condor]

yes but vers > crit > terrible

[sudden canyon]

been venth since release. any covenants i should have leveled that have competitive numbers?

!spreadsheet

!spreadcheeks

😦

[balmy condor]

necro in keys is cool, fae if you're cringe, kyrian if you wanna play a different spec

[hazy beacon]

ty Whispyr, I wonder why 73% of top 200 sylvanas logs are Nadijas slaves... anyway back to readingh

[spice spire]

Necro is a based covenant

[hazy beacon]

Necro is a based covenant (1)

[sudden canyon]

yea i was gonna do necro just for the mogs

and aesthetic

[balmy condor]

theotar hasn't caught on yet, that's bout it

it took a while for theotar to sim higher and then for people to realize it's tea dependent, and the information to move around

takes a lot of time

ep + mfd is strictly better than ep + vig in raids as venthyr right now

but you still see a ton of people playing vigor

and idk maybe it's but I think externals just makes it harder for optimizations to see the light

[oak sky]

Just wait for me to get some gear whispyr

[balmy condor]

if 100 people get simped to the moon and play like trash

[oak sky]

Ill be topping the leaderboards in no time

[balmy condor]

and 10 people play good but don't get simped

[oak sky]

[balmy condor]

95 out of those 100 simped people will be on leaderboards

and it'll feel like "oh well 95% play like X"

[uncut flax]

Practice kyrian sub or bring mfd to the top of leaderbords what to do what to do

[arctic walrus]

Mfd is at the top of the leaderboard though? I know cuz I’m there duh

[oak sky]

Its just too easy

[sudden canyon]

!lego

!necro

!legendary

!kms

[oak sky]

Whats the question

[uncut flax]

He wants to know something about lego, necro, legendary and kms

[oak sky]

Certainly seems like it doesnt it

Theres a couple ways we can put those together i just need to know which one haha

[sudden canyon]

just wanted to see if there a spreadsheet for sims comparing legendaries across covenants specficially necro

[spice spire]

Yeah

It’s in the FAQ

[oak sky]

There was an old one

[balmy condor]

Yeh

Faq still up to date

Cause nothing changed

[spice spire]

It’s old but it’s still generally correct

[balmy condor]

My spreadsheet will update soon

[spice spire]

Doomblade good for Necro ST. Aoe will be Zoldyck’s

Ezpz

[oak sky]

Does it have mfd as well?

[spice spire]

Noooooo

[sudden canyon]

the raidbot links on whispyrs are broken now

[spice spire]

I haven’t gotten it to sim better

[oak sky]

I didnt mean necro

[spice spire]

Yeah they delete after a month iirc

[balmy condor]

Don’t need the links, there’s a little table for dashing doomblade covenant

[spice spire]

Ohhh the sims. I’m actually not sure

[oak sky]

Dashing venthyr>doomblade venthyr>>doomblade necro~= dashing necro

[clever kindle]

if there are fights with persistent adds in the next tier necro could slap

like eye

[oak sky]

[balmy condor]

Deathspike for sure man

Great raid lego

[oak sky]

5 charges to the moon

[clever kindle]

I have a 99% parse on eye as necro, not saying deathspike is good

[sudden canyon]

scales with more necro rogues in the group

[clever kindle]

hopefully they look at stuff

[balmy condor]

You have to play deathspike next patch though

[oak sky]

Deathspike is auto worse than obedience in raid

Just how it is

[balmy condor]

Double legendary kills necro

[oak sky]

Its 0% vs 6%

Ish

[clever kindle]

theyll fix bonespike and make deathspike good

[sudden canyon]

blizzard will be more active about balancing covenants and legendary combinations in 9.2 ptr

[uncut flax]

What about mfd+obedience FAQ.
20 prepull mfd then with 1st flag+vendetta+shiv, then on cd with shiv, with 2nd flag, on cd with shiv and the cycle is over with next mfd with flag+vendetta+shiv, right?(assuming no extra targets for mfd)
Any extra tips to know about with mfd/obedience especially?

[oak sky]

Its like not even worth to prepull mfd afaik and also you dont force it with shiv

[balmy condor]

Yeah

[spice spire]

That’s coping too hard king

[balmy condor]

It’s with flag, on cooldown, flag, on cooldown

Over and over

[sudden canyon]

coped to close to the sun

[uncut flax]

Is it for shiv only or for prepull either?

[oak sky]

You can prepull if you want but its probably like 2 dps

Saves you 1 global

And its 22s

You need a 25s pull timer

And shiv is not a gain

[sudden canyon]

so is dashing with frost better than doomblade forst on necro?

[oak sky]

I remember the day they posted the pin

[oak sky]

Dashing gets better with really insane gear

Doomblade is better until then

Dashing is better way sooner with venthyt

[sudden canyon]

i only have r5 blood and frost

[oak sky]

Frost is always best

No matter what leggo

[sudden canyon]

necro doesnt like UH?

[oak sky]

Nah

Sin in general likes frost

Necro likes it too, bleeds tick a lot so they also crit a lot

[sudden canyon]

might just make a zoldyck i dont have one. ill have to see how much of difference doomblade and dashing would be.

[oak sky]

Zoldyck is good for aoe/m+ either covenant

[sudden canyon]

u go pants crit/vers or crit/haste?

[timid cloud]

[sudden canyon]

true where do u even swap covs

[balmy condor]

In oribos like normal

[oak sky]

Crit haste or crit mastery

Mastery is good for aoe but most people go haste anyway

[charred wraith]

you ll all see, council type fight, necro gonna rise

[oak sky]

But you only kill one at a time

[charred wraith]

waiters

[oak sky]

Waiters dont increase your damage to the boss

[sudden canyon]

"im funneling for resource"

[charred wraith]

yeah i am

[oak sky]

Also necro you have to go deathspike instead of obedience

Sorry for doing it but i gotta kill the cope

[charred wraith]

np i can always go outlaw and blade flurry all the spikes on the main target

[sudden canyon]

imagine getting a 4 peice that makes ur 2minute close to 100% stronger and then not using the 1:30 ability that gives you giga haste durring ur 2 minute window

[clever kindle]

100% stronger

[oak sky]

It doesnt make your 2 minute close to 100% stronger

But who knows they might have changes planned when ptr goes up

[sudden canyon]

hopefully

[clever kindle]

yeah cant wait to reapply bleeds mid vendetta half negating the damage gain of making the bleeds tick faster

[oak sky]

Its fine we already reapply in vendetta sometimes we just have to do it more now

[clever kindle]

assuming it affects 1 set

Yeah but generally you try not to

[oak sky]

Not really

[sudden canyon]

so like what the point exsanguinate?

[oak sky]

Its not in your control

At least not always

[clever kindle]

there isnt one currently

well know more once ptr is up

rather, playable

[oak sky]

If you mean the set bonus, its because it would still do some more damage since it would basically double your dot damage, though like its being said it can decrease other damage in vendetta

If you meant the talent

No

:)

[gusty mirage]

outlaw still capped

[oak sky]

Cap matters in raid

[gusty mirage]

don't make me

don't you make me

[oak sky]

Im making you

:)

[gusty mirage]

[oak sky]

W

[limber swallow]

that is amazing.

[oak sky]

King whispyr

Always giving us a nice kekg

[balmy condor]

[timid cloud]

I’m scared.

[balmy condor]

What are you scared of

[vestal wren]

that somehow has a robotic sound to it, might be my speaker

[timid cloud]

This, this scares me.

[balmy condor]

It’s just a scary story cev tells children, like Krampus or el chupacabra

[timid cloud]

[limber lion]

Stay woke children

[spice spire]

Unfortunately I still am

[elfin chasm]

erm, how do u guys play MFD sin

energy problems in first opener without lust

awkward rotation

[balmy condor]

In opener you wait for energy

Mfd you cast in flag, on cooldown, in flag, on cooldown, over and over

[elfin chasm]

im playin with 49 crit, 9% haste, so mut SnD, mut (now at like 10) energy without garrote and rupture, so waiting for energy is like so long
so im going with mut SnD, Vendetta mut garrote flag rupture, shiv MFD envenom, vanish env env

[balmy condor]

That’s a dps loss

[limber lion]

It's literally just 2 gcd's where you have to wait a bit. It's not the end of the world

[golden basalt]

Its not that bad, imo its only noticeable if you dont crit on the mut after snd

[subtle tundra]

if you have 50% crit, its impossible not to crit ez

[slow marsh]

The forsaken texts

[thorny pond]

Yikes

[last imp]

if i’m putting obedience on a cloak i want crit/haste right

[spice spire]

If you’re one tricking assassination sure

[torn frost]

I remember reading somewhere that they was planning on making snd passively managed did that ever come to anything?

[spice spire]

If you wanna multispec crit/vers

[spice spire]

Yeah that’s been live for a while. SnD is extended via envenom through cut to the chase

[torn frost]

Is that for pve too?

[spice spire]

Yes

[torn frost]

Ooo I may have to try Sin then last time I got@overwhelemed managing bleeds and snd

[spice spire]

Good luck!

[torn frost]

Is necro still the go to spec or venthyr

[last imp]

i’m def not multispec lol

but i might look into crit/vers still

[thorny pond]

Depends on content. Venth is a little stronger ST but necro is good cleave and I think SBS is the most fun ability of the 4 for sin

[thorny pond]

Vers is good, survivability and it’s not a bad stat

If you go dashing I’d go crit haste tho

[spice spire]

There’s no multispeccing there; silly.

[sonic schooner]

With the incoming 2 leggos, venthyr is becomming the prime choice cuz obediance is the only covenant leg that s not trash

[violet jackal]

Yes, this was pinned a month ago by our fearless leader

[vestal wren]

only covenant legendary thats rly bad is necro

but venthyr def. stands out

[thorny pond]

Yea I can't see them changing RC around and they probably like the niche Deathspike fits. TO seems good but Sepsis is meh so I could see that getting a change

[vestal wren]

the problem with sepsis is that NF overall isn't that strong

sepsis would need a buff or the NF soulbinds in general

[thorny pond]

lil of both would be great

[vestal wren]

double legendary could also lead to some interesting combinations

[thorny pond]

I sure hope

NF and DW could have good 4pc synergy

[quasi grotto]

Is ptr going live Monday ?

[gusty mirage]

they usually release them thursday afaik

[vestal wren]

ptr release/update is usually wednesday

thursday/friday on rare occasions

[gusty mirage]

makes sense

probably remembering that because 9.1 ptr was pushed on a thursday?

either that or 9.1.5

one of those two

[vestal wren]

it could be wed next week

TW releases a week after, so they don't have a big reason to not release it

also they want to get ptr out to start boss testing

[quasi grotto]

Oh okay, I know they said after thanks giving, but I have no idea how long thanks giving is 😂

[vestal wren]

my big hope is that we see tier set implementations

current tier sets are dummy spells

(the datamined ones)

[drifting cosmos]

its funny to read all those guild writer's first impression of tier sets

it seems many tier sets effects are just so bad and many complains

[vestal wren]

i do expect blizz to change that

[drifting cosmos]

i wonder what was like in legion, didnt join discord back then

[vestal wren]

there seemes to be a very high incentive from devs to get feedback for them so that they can work with that

[drifting cosmos]

didnt see much discussions

[vestal wren]

just for reference

[drifting cosmos]

like this monk tank set, 0 dps value while dh tank set 0 defensive value

[vestal wren]

t21 4p was given feedback that it was terrible for subtlety rogue

but blizz did not correct/change anything about it after they nerfed it significantly

[drifting cosmos]

yea it was, i remembered i used 2p2p for a while

[vestal wren]

thats basically why subtlety wasn't the play in atbt at all

it was okay to play it

but nobody did after the initial weeks

and people played it initially because subtlety was good in the last tier and the itemlevel jump between tiers was non existent

[drifting cosmos]

but sub was still the play back then cos the funnel dmg only sub can do

[vestal wren]

so you could clear the new mythic with no new gear

[muted ivy]

I think RC would be more interesting if it made the anima charged finisher be empowered some other way rather than just giving more anima charged cp

[vestal wren]

sub was played in m+ for dunnel

people didn't even exploit it in raids

[drifting cosmos]

yea i meant in keys, yea

[vestal wren]

(at least not in atbt)

[drifting cosmos]

in raid sin was better i guess even with this rng pb?

[vestal wren]

e.g. you could rly exploit subtlety on aggramar

but you only saw that at all very late in farm

and there was no real reason to do so, the fight was not a damage check and was about control

and playing around subtlety would just make the fight way harder

[muted ivy]

i hate how they killed sub funnel because they happened to design a fight where that type of funnel dmg was way better than anything else

[drifting cosmos]

it seems like a lot of tuning needs to happen

if its possible

once it made to live, nothing big will change, only numbers wise

and then we have to wait for 10.0

[vestal wren]

i did hear rumors of rogue getting utility

and tbh i think specs play decent enough atm

so the game is not in a bad state gameplay wise

[drifting cosmos]

it is content wise

[vestal wren]

9.2 makes the game a bit more strict

the 2nd legendary being locked to the covenant ones does mean covenant choice is rly bad

at least for many classes in the game

i can't talk to much about 9.2 content. The preview did not impress me but i wasn't impressed by new content since legion

i don't rly want to fall into to much negativity and blizz might surprise us with very good content in 9.2

[drifting cosmos]

i mean as in this patch is way slower and also less content in general, ie m+ dgns

[vestal wren]

what 9.2 seemingly brings is a hopefully good raid and 2 new m+ dungeons

[drifting cosmos]

but also we are in a very strange times so yea

[vestal wren]

the entire xpac was painfully slow

if you compare it to legion you had about twice the duration of patches

and there was a lot more content in legion

[drifting cosmos]

yea i think we had 1 or 2 more system in legion

[vestal wren]

legion had its issues but content was not one of it

sl in contrast has content as one of the big deficits

what is totally fine, the company decided for a slower pace and at least a lot of players from the community seem to be fine with that

[drifting cosmos]

not really lol consider wow lost so much playerbase

content got to be one of the reasons

[vestal wren]

a lot of ppl left the game

and we don't have official numbers but we can use some metrics to estimate a rough number

[muted ivy]

the quality of the content isn't the problem, it mostly how the systems make you interact with the content that drives people away

[vestal wren]

e.g. we talked with koji about that recently, and it seems like the amount of unique players logging for encounters are down quite significant

some classes can have go as low as ~20% of the players remaining for their class in terms of amount of logs

i think its usually between that and 40% (probably more like 30%)

[drifting cosmos]

compare to when

[muted ivy]

to some extent the pacing of releases as well, but I'd argue the biggest factor in people quitting entirely is how the systems blizz implements affect the game

[vestal wren]

compared to first raid

its also normal that the number of logs gets reduced over time

because the start of the xpac/first raid has a lot more people engaged

[strange python]

They need to give us some aoe dmg as sin rogue. And remove S/D...yes its easy to keep up, but it doesnt make rogues any more fun...

[drifting cosmos]

how to tell the difference of this unique player logging? i thought many would play alts

[vestal wren]

dragonmacer, i don't think that the content design is the biggest issue

[drifting cosmos]

yes, this SND is a lot of bs

AA such a big part of our dmg

[muted ivy]

that's what im saying

[drifting cosmos]

even in aoe

[vestal wren]

sin isn't terrible in aoe

[drifting cosmos]

i think he meant burst aoe

or burst-ish aoe

[vestal wren]

assassination is not a burst spec

[muted ivy]

sin and spriest have similar problems in aoe, their only real option is to use 1 Spender when it starts doing more dmg than their ST

[vestal wren]

so if the aoe is bad, it should get higher sustained aoe

burst niche is more #subtlety

[muted ivy]

i wish there was some way of actually having burst AOE other than Tornado :/

[drifting cosmos]

yea sp ramps slow af in aoe too, prob why i dont see many sp still playing in keys lol

[strange python]

Their aoe is a joke compared to other specs.

[vestal wren]

i haven't run any sims on it

but i would be very interessted in cross spec/class comparisons

outside of the little data points i have in my spreadsheet

[strange python]

Yea give us blade flurry 😝

[vestal wren]

i think the t22 2p we saw should affect poisons too

[drifting cosmos]

yea well, take out the meta specs, and see who is worse in aoe lol sounds like fun

[vestal wren]

i also focus more on 9.2

i think the current patch is done so far and works out fairly well for rogue

so even if there are pain points i can't complain

[muted ivy]

if you think about it Spriest and Sin are basically the same archetype but in their ranged/melee forms

[vestal wren]

9.2 will be interessting as domination sets brought some power to sin/outlaw

sub also has some nice synergy but not to the extend those 2 have

at least it seems like that to me

[muted ivy]

just kinda sucks that Sin's only option for aoe is waiting for CT to fall off and then re-apply it

[drifting cosmos]

has sp ever being op in keys? since legion

[bleak sky]

sp is pretty decent

[muted ivy]

OP? no, niche yes

[bleak sky]

has high aoe damage, just not stupid high

[vestal wren]

priest often has a good heal spot in m+

[muted ivy]

can be very very good, but requires a certain composition that fills it's weaknesses cuz they're so bad

[bleak sky]

in large enough packs you reapply CT earlier;
you're always rupturing something;
you're there for prio damage anyway

[muted ivy]

that's still just waiting for CT though, you just wait less

[strange python]

Their aoe is pretty good. Thing is that the slightest movement is annoying for em

[muted ivy]

aoe is also clunky as fuck

so much weird insanity thresholds

[slow marsh]

Deeper daggers says hi. But ye frost being able to crit on itself is nuts

I wish that we had a conduit like deeper. Makes no sense wps doesn't work with anything but deeper does

[arctic hare]

Uh, what

Frost can crit on itself?

[slow marsh]

Your winds spikes can crit yes

[arctic hare]

Thats

Terrifying

Yet, I love it

I never even thought about the dmg it did, as long as it did dmg

[slow marsh]

Yeah I mean it's not anything you can influence really so it is what it is

[arctic hare]

It eez what it eez

But yeah, seeing those winds spikes shooting to the top of my dmg is great

[slow marsh]

I'm gonna miss it

But then again I won't idk

[arctic hare]

I’ve definitely noticed a increase in the dmg from increasing my uptime on the evenom buff

[vestal wren]

unholy is quite close to blood, i updated the sims for it today you can look at them in #subtlety-faq

so while blood with deeper dagger is relevant, its not what makes sub good this tier

[slow marsh]

Ah yeah ik UH is pretty close and it wins for me on Kyrian but ye I was more just poking fun cuz Im jelly of deeper

[arctic hare]

Indeed

[slow marsh]

Sub was good for a lot of reasons not just that one thing ofc

[vestal wren]

i think sin/outlaw depend more on the domination sets

[slow marsh]

Indeed

[limber lion]

They definitely do

[slow marsh]

If it weren't for frost we'd all be playing sub

[arctic hare]

Sadly

[arctic hare]

Speak fo yoself

[slow marsh]

I'm hoping that sub isn't the default pick for next raid as well. Guess we'll see

[arctic hare]

I can’t stand sub, it just feels too clunky, I’m not even sure why

[slow marsh]

Once you force yourself to play it enough it'll smooth out

[arctic hare]

Tried it in aoe and it can’t even get near to what I’ve managed to pull off in assassination

[muted ivy]

what size aoe?

[arctic hare]

Ofc, thats prolly because I’m a heckuva lot more experienced with assassination

[limber lion]

Sub is hella better in aoe than assa

And it's not even close

And it's not exactly hard to pull off either

[muted ivy]

it's also literally like 4 maybe 5 buttons

[limber lion]

Literally SS - BP spam

[arctic hare]

Then I’m doing something EXTREMELY wrong with it

[limber lion]

Yes you are

[muted ivy]

SS-BP spam, and dance/symbols use

[arctic hare]

I tend to save the ST black powder spam

[limber lion]

Dance - Symbols - SS - BP - SS - BP - SS - BP

That's it

[arctic hare]

Hmm

I don’t like that rotation much, feels like I have a bit more to do in assassination

[limber lion]

You sure do

[muted ivy]

oh it's definitely boring

[vestal wren]

tbh i would prefere a more bursty damage profile in aoe with secret over bp

bp spam can get a bit boring

[limber lion]

You have to do a lot more in aoe to do damage as assa

[muted ivy]

but it's also definitely more dmg than sin

[limber lion]

But it's still less damage than sub

[vestal wren]

sub luckily has priod damage too, so you have some change in rotation from pack to pack

[limber lion]

Yeh

[vestal wren]

buffing bleeds would help sin a bit i guess

i am unsure i rly like multidotting as a mean to aoe

[arctic hare]

I personally enjoy the fullness that it adds to the rotationg

[muted ivy]

i wish Sec Tec was better in like a sustained aoe, so we had tornado for burst and Sec Tec for a more sustained/single target focus

[arctic hare]

But it could stand to do with just a litttttle bit less energy

[vestal wren]

secret needs a buff/change to be good

blizz missed that when buffing storm/bp

[gusty mirage]

Ah yes Secret technique the aoe ability that was only played because nothing else was available

That talents on life support

[vestal wren]

i like the idea to make CT work with WV

[arctic hare]

Huh?

[vestal wren]

for assassination in m+

[vestal wren]

tbh i think the row had a nice balance with secret for burst aoe, mos for sustained aoe and tornado for priority damage

[bleak sky]

what's wv?

[oak sky]

He means venomous wounds

Terrible idea

Makes it required for st too probably

[bleak sky]

hm

[vestal wren]

https://www.wowhead.com/spell=79134/venomous-wounds

[slow marsh]

If you mean VW then I'd have to disagree, we'd be actually forced to play CT for everything including ST and it wouldn't really solve anything in aoe because we already have a surplus of energy

[oak sky]

Ct is a good ability it just sucks we have to talent into it

[slow marsh]

We don't need more energy we need more ways to deal damage

In aoe

[vestal wren]

rly depends on pb tuning

[muted ivy]

i'd like it to be MoS for just general sustained dmg, Sec Tec for sustained aoe, and burst aoe/funnel

[vestal wren]

or well alternatives

i also think that HB is still a terrible talent

[slow marsh]

Kind of. CT consistency would make it way better than any other option

[vestal wren]

and should be exchanged with something good

[slow marsh]

I agree

[deft vault]

HB LUL why would we ever use that over CT that talent is so trash

[muted ivy]

Sin and Spriest have the same problem in aoe where their only option for an aoe spender is a talent that is super clunky

[gusty mirage]

ye I agree it'd be nice to buff sectec

[slow marsh]

If we are forced to talent for one of our biggest aoe buttons we should have an equally as good talent for ST. Which pb isnt

[gusty mirage]

leaving it as is after introducing BP was confusing

[oak sky]

The problem with spriest is the same as sub its basically a w button rotation

2

[vestal wren]

i think BP is okay-ish

i would have hoped to have more power of it shifted into FW

so that it does if combined with symbols do burst aoe

[muted ivy]

yah but sub isn't clunky with that rotation

[oak sky]

Yeah of course

[vestal wren]

and not hit like wet noodle and when FW is up hit slighly more wet noodle

i mean BP does do good damage, but just over time

[muted ivy]

the problem with spriest isn't the 2 button rotation, it's how awkward using one of those buttons is

[slow marsh]

Make current fw a class raid debuff and a new fw for sub that does some bursty thing

[muted ivy]

nah, i like fw as sub specific

should have something that makes sub feel more bursty tho

[oak sky]

I dont even want a raid buff like that

[muted ivy]

cuz shadowblades ain't it

[oak sky]

Theres enough of that

[bleak sky]

all I want is for fan of knives to be a good generator like shuriken storm

[vestal wren]

if we get a raid buff we get something that all 3 specs have

[muted ivy]

raid buffs are dumb and should be removed, raid utility maybe tho

[vestal wren]

like either something like a poison

[gusty mirage]

https://tenor.com/view/me-too-me-too-kid-incredibles-gif-19919940

[vestal wren]

or.. maybe smoke bomb

[slow marsh]

Yeah idk nothing is really better than smoke bomb idea

[muted ivy]

[obtuse robin]

well i like to aim for the moon so make ven a buff on yourself

[oak sky]

I would rather have smoke bomb than a raid buff

[vestal wren]

i don't think we will get anything before 10.0

[oak sky]

Being blanket required is cringe i would rather get damage

[muted ivy]

raid buffs are just cringe overall

[oak sky]

Kinda yeah

[vestal wren]

they are but are a valid factor when creating raid combos

[oak sky]

Stuff like rally and drs and damage profiles are way cooler than raid buffs tho

[slow marsh]

Yeah you have to have a certain number of raid buffs

[muted ivy]

more like required factor if you want to create an optimal raid

[slow marsh]

But as of now there's too many individual raid buffs/debuffs for the number of specs there are

If they overlapped with one other spec then it'd be fine

[muted ivy]

well raid (de)buffs are pretty much only class specific right? fort, battle cry, int, DH increase magic dam%, monk increase phys dam%

so you have like 5 spots in a raid locked to be a certain class

[slow marsh]

That's what I mean

[muted ivy]

assuming mythic

[slow marsh]

They should go to two classes not just one

[muted ivy]

ah

[slow marsh]

Not specs mb

[oak sky]

Other required things like pally/warlock/druid also exist

[slow marsh]

There's too many required things for there to be so many class specific buffs

Tin foil hat though it'd never happen because then they'd have to be more accountable to class balance

[muted ivy]

the thing is it doesn't matter about other class specific raid utility, raid buffs in that form are just 100% required while that utility CAN be worked around

[oak sky]

Class balance is good now why couldnt they replicate it

[muted ivy]

except for maybe warlock gate

[slow marsh]

I.e. if DH and rogue both got 5% magic debuff and DH isn't tuned well they don't come

Ofc we already get that as rogue but ye

[oak sky]

Gate/healthstones is turbo required

[golden basalt]

and summ portal for slackers

[oak sky]

Same with paladin devo aura and all their general utility

And druid general utility roar etc

But druid is more towards cool utility though

[slow marsh]

Ye I think that kind of stuff is fine. You should be taking things because of that, not because we need shout or 5% dam debuffs

[muted ivy]

but if you don't have a pally you're not gonna miss it as much as if you're missing a dh

it's GOOD to bring a pally/druid because of those things, it's REQUIRED to bring a dh because of their buff

[golden basalt]

any more info on the rogue utility Ion teased about a while back?

[oak sky]

Not yet

Maybe on ptr maybe 10.0 maybe never

[golden basalt]

wouldnt be surprised if it was the latter

[slow marsh]

No shot we get it in a random patch

It's an xpac thing

[golden basalt]

wouldnt mind seeing the dps raidbuffs go though

[spice spire]

Hold strong brothers

[oak sky]

My dream is we get something unique for an on use combat buff or something but a DR would do

[slow marsh]

Like ninja trick attack on FFXIV?

[spice spire]

The return of cata honor among thieves

[muted ivy]

raid wide crit buff

[spice spire]

[muted ivy]

on a cd of course

[vestal wren]

i think raid buffs should be provided by multiple classes, so you have more dynamic in raid combo creation

[oak sky]

Honestly the crit buff would be wild as hell

Idk if it would be good but its like another lust

Healthy i mean

[slow marsh]

You would just stack with lust. Boring

[muted ivy]

fair

[slow marsh]

And something like trick attack (5% dam buff for like 10sec) would literally change everything so that's also not good

[oak sky]

Yeah

I think its either smoke bomb or a new idea

[vestal wren]

tott did give a damage amp in wotlk

[oak sky]

Yeah but then we lose it for dungeons

[slow marsh]

It also just goes to the other rogue

And we get theirs

[muted ivy]

the flat stat/% dmg increase raid buffs are super cringe, other sorts of utility are cool

[golden basalt]

I agree

[muted ivy]

like rally is kinda a flat stat increase, but because it's a cd its something you can plan for rather than it just being required

[slow marsh]

Smoke bomb is most realistic but I'd like to see something creative like when you enter combat, for x seconds you get some raid buff

[oak sky]

I dont mind flat stat raid buffs existing as long as theres scrolls or another way of getting them

Like a 2nd class

[slow marsh]

Yeah like DH rogue should share magic debuff. Monk and hunter? Share phys

[oak sky]

When you really look at it though you would probably take priest and warrior either way, and mage has never been tuned bad enough to not get brought

[muted ivy]

the buff either has to be readily available at a similar level, or that class will be required to be in the raid
having 2 classes provide that buff will just mean you only need to have at least 1 of those 2 classes, but you still need the buff

[oak sky]

I dont want the magic debuff

Tbh

[slow marsh]

Me either but poison and we either get magic or phys

[oak sky]

We already have a raid buff poison its just not strong enough to get us brought by default

[muted ivy]

constant flat buffs are just dumb, there's no thought or planning put into getting them in your raid

[slow marsh]

Yeah so make them more accessible and it makes them less annoying

[muted ivy]

then why have them?

[oak sky]

I think they should just make scrolls for warrior mage priest buff since ive heard those existed in the past

Seems like a good idea

[slow marsh]

Because if you don't have them it makes it easier to cheese comps.

[muted ivy]

i'd rather take cheesing comps than having raid spots be completely reserved based on a perma buff

[spice spire]

I’ll cheese your comp

[muted ivy]

like ya higher end raids could cheese easier, but as long as it's tuned right it shouldn't be required to beat a boss

[slow marsh]

But that's what I mean is that if the debuffs that are in place to prevent super cheese comps are spread to 2 classes instead of just 1 then it at least loosens the required slots a bit

[muted ivy]

no it makes it easier to fill the required spots

there'd still be 5 spots

you would just have more potential choices

[slow marsh]

Yes and you have more leeway to take what you want instead of being forced for one of each

[muted ivy]

so just get rid of the buff, 5 spots also isn't going to majorly affect any cheese strategy anyways

[slow marsh]

I don't have as much a problem with the required slots in general, moreso the fact that you're required to specifically bring the classes

I think it would

But yeah I mean either way

[frosty bridge]

Yes raid (de)buffs are boring

just "cheap" game design to make sure a class is viable or brought

[slow marsh]

If those 5 required slots aren't there then that's just 5 extra boomie slots

[muted ivy]

for it to factor into cheesing or not you would have to stack like over 10 of the same class/spec

[slow marsh]

Then we complain about never getting brought to raid because there's no need to have us

[frosty bridge]

but honestly raid frames would look very orange if it wasn't for mandatory classes

[oak sky]

The crazy thing is pretty much every class that has a raid buff would get brought anyway

[muted ivy]

so give rogues some sort of raid utility/buff on a cd that makes raids want a rogue

[oak sky]

Actually this raid i think every class with a raid buff would get brought anyway

[slow marsh]

That stuff just comes down to tuning still and you're in the same spot

[vestal wren]

thats why those things should be on multiple classes so that you should usually have it covered by default even with a very random raid comp

[oak sky]

Not even just because of tuning

[muted ivy]

so then why have it at all?

[vestal wren]

fantasy

[oak sky]

Priest has barrier/pi paladin has devo on hpal and the most damage on prot pal and even ret was tuned for burst aoe

Warrior has rally and sick st with windfury

Dh has darkness

Mage was tuned well

[slow marsh]

Na cuz then you just take the best raid drs and ig ore the rest

Such as DH

And DK

Etc

You just don't take them any more cuz you can fill with x more rally

[oak sky]

The 2nd warrior isnt a raid buff

[frosty bridge]

2nd warrior is a rally tho

[slow marsh]

More rally

[muted ivy]

my guild had 1 night of sylv progress rekt because our dh had something irl come up last minute and we couldn't find a replacement

[oak sky]

Its interesting because in wf they had dk and double dh

[muted ivy]

if they didn't have the magic dmg debuff we could have worked around losing darkness

[oak sky]

Iirc both echo and limit did

[slow marsh]

Wf this tier was scuffed tho

[frosty bridge]

Echo had 3 warriors

Limit had 2 DH

[slow marsh]

It was shard diff max even confirmed

[muted ivy]

you can't work around losing 5% magic dmg

[slow marsh]

Limit had 2 dh cuz shards. Echo had wars cuz shards

[frosty bridge]

Exactly, comps in RWF this tier depended a lot on shard drops

well, not "a lot" i guess

[oak sky]

Limit was even gonna take a rogue if they got their unholy shards

[slow marsh]

Ye

[frosty bridge]

I mean Echo tried rogue on Sylv

ultimately dropped it

[slow marsh]

They had everything ready and just took whoever got a set

[frosty bridge]

Can't remember if it was Perfecto, Klaus or Kush but they did try rogue on sylv

[oak sky]

Next tier should be better

[frosty bridge]

Too early to speculate

[oak sky]

I mean in terms of gearing

[frosty bridge]

Ah ye

Well it will be tier sets this time

[vestal wren]

9.2 could be a disaster in gearing

[frosty bridge]

Could be even worse tbh

[oak sky]

Easier to manipulate tier gear than rng shard drops

[frosty bridge]

1 tier piece vs 4 etc

[hollow river]

Yeah idk man

[frosty bridge]

Some classes will do more damage with 2p compared to some with 4p

[oak sky]

Depends on tuning

[hollow river]

They made it sound like making a tier piece with m+ or pvp wouldn’t be released immediately

[oak sky]

But they should be able to get 4 set on most of their characters and 2 set on every character

[frosty bridge]

Well not to mention RWF will be at least 1 reset this time

[oak sky]

Very likely yes

[vestal wren]

its possible that you need to use one or two domination gems next tier
same with sylvanas dagger, you potentially use it in offhand for the rest of the xpac

[hollow river]

Hopefully not fuu

[frosty bridge]

That's also true, domination pieces will basically 100% be used in RWF

[muted ivy]

no way they let dom gems work in the new raid

[frosty bridge]

unless they disable em

[hollow river]

That’d be so shit for everyone who didn’t get one

[vestal wren]

if both is true you could have 4 (tier) + 2 (legendary) + 1 (dagger) + 2(domination) = 9 slots locked

[oak sky]

Dom sets are gone but yeah we could see gems

Unfortunately

[hollow river]

The singular effects will definitely work

[muted ivy]

god i hope not

[hollow river]

They will

[muted ivy]

u might be right tho

[hollow river]

No shot they don’t work at all

[oak sky]

Ideally the secondary stats would make up for the difference

[frosty bridge]

They could just add "... in Sanctum of Domination" and bingo

[oak sky]

But if it doesnt we get big sad

[hollow river]

IMO they should do a bigger ilvl jump

[muted ivy]

gives people a reason to farm the old raid

[hollow river]

Instead of the regular 13+13