And that’s nightstalker
#assassination
spice spire
dawn ivy
idk how to explain it but it seemed like people were talkiung about there being two different ways the 4pc worked
and it didnt make any sense
limber lion
Actually yeah, that is true
The Exsang effect works for the duration of Vendetta
meaning that newly applied dots would still have the exsang effect applied to them
grim hornet
yep
limber lion
Exsang itself would just snapshot the previously existing dot
So that is a small difference
But nothing giga
dawn ivy
i guess maybe thats what they were refering to, not sure
spice spire
Yeah was gonna day, even with that snapshot the gain is hella minimum, yeah,
grim hornet
its just more energy in vendetta but u will have to refresh dots during it so...
whole mason
Well, it says Vendetta cause XXX on your target, which means it is talking about the action rather than the debuff. Otherwise, the target thing should be omitted.
grim hornet
nah, 2p needs to be poisons also
limber lion
Well, it says Vendetta cause XXX on your target, which means it is talking about...
Yeah again, that's the power of Blizzard tooltips
warm parcel
Its not just energy. Its also more ticks in same time frame. Which isnt nothing
limber lion
You can't really say for sure what is what
grim hornet
ye
dawn ivy
nah
warm parcel
Shaking up the build
limber lion
I've been praying for Exsang meta for a long time
dawn ivy
an exsang type build
limber lion
But I doubt this will do it
Sure we'll have the Exsang effect, but the build will still be the same
grand ridge
it was fun early in legion
grand ridge
thats the last time I can remember it being worth using
dawn ivy
again it will not be the meta build but fuck me if subterfugre exsang doesnt sound kinda fun to see the burst
gaunt halo
I thing how good this bonus will turn out will heavily depend on how good the other classes bonuses are
whole mason
as lazy or succinct as blizzard used to be, I cannot say a reason if not necessary for them to put extra words there.
drifting cloud
Possibly aiming to shift meta to exsang, which is cool
cant tell if weak is trolling us
warm parcel
Why
limber lion
thats the last time I can remember it being worth using
Legion when it was 400% faster and 8.3 with 70% haste and Shrouded Suffocation
dawn ivy
waitwaitwait
drifting cloud
you ever run alac vs exsang sim? 
dawn ivy
was exsang 400%
warm parcel
Idno
limber lion
yeh
balmy condor
drifting cloud
yeah 400 was prepatch hfc farm
dawn ivy
ah okay see i dont remember it ever being that haha
drifting cloud
it was absurd
balmy condor
Got nerfed into the ground
whole mason
only for a short period as 400% as i recall
warm parcel
Thats what this tier is saying to me; were trying to get you off alac. Maybe some other changes alongside and boom
limber lion
There were a lot of other problems in the kit back then
balmy condor
Unsurprisingly, 400% exsang is also bad btw
grand ridge
would be nice if the 2 set gave us some sort of aoe benefit
limber lion
Thats what this tier is saying to me; were trying to get you off alac. Maybe som...
Probably won't be happening as Alacrity is one of our strongest talents and Exsang is literally the worst dps talent we have
gaunt halo
The 2 set is somewhat aoe. The 4 isn't
limber lion
They would have to do something to that row
balmy condor
There is no buff that they can do to exsang other than like “your bleeds tick out X% faster and also do Y% more damage” or a complete rework
balmy condor
The 2 set is somewhat aoe. The 4 isn't
It’s 0 aoe actually
whole mason
I believe it is okay; considering 1min V and 1 min F
dawn ivy
make it passive
gaunt halo
Oh right it's on the debuff target
dawn ivy
make exsang just 100% of the time double your tick rate
warm parcel
There is no buff that they can do to exsang other than like “your bleeds tick ou...
You know ive been on that 
for the past 4 years
Still on it
limber lion
Same.
limber lion
Exsang is fun, too bad it's shit
balmy condor
You either makes bleeds crazy strong and burst relevant
gaunt halo
We don't know if class changes are planned though
whole mason
why we're bundling the two...we can have the 4p and alac...
warm parcel
Maybe they actually hired class devs
balmy condor
why we're bundling the two...we can have the 4p and alac...
That’s what it’s gonna be
balmy condor
Maybe they actually hired class devs
Don’t overdose
grand ridge
we will have whichever sims better
limber lion
why we're bundling the two...we can have the 4p and alac...
There is no other option
That's the problem
soft shale
you can make exsang be able to put 1 more rupture and garrote while its up
and suddenly
it becomes kinda ok
grand ridge
if it was an aoe thing
limber lion
It's not a buff
grand ridge
that would be so much fun
limber lion
Exsang is a cast
whole mason
I mean alac hasn't been taken away
limber lion
?
dawn ivy
yeah we're just toying with the idea
dawn ivy
what it would look like if we did try 4p/exsang
whole mason
yes, and with 4p we still can choose alac, right?
limber lion
...............
warm parcel
Yes the ex talk is all just copium
balmy condor
Yes
limber lion
yes
dawn ivy
yeah you got it
limber lion
What part of "always" don't you get lol
limber lion
As we do
fickle jolt
Remember this is datamining. Testing will change things and they have completely reworked bonuses and buffs before. I expect the set bonuses to change before they go live.
whole mason
i think we should clam down on exsang talk for a moment; it is really not healthy for us discussing such a loser talent
limber lion
wtf
dawn ivy
alright
drifting cloud
I think you need to read the room better
dawn ivy
im gettin the crossbow, you count to 10
balmy condor
limber lion
Only talk about the good stuff and the stuff that is op
warm parcel
Remember this is datamining. Testing will change things and they have completely...
Another copium enjoyer
Its only ptr
gaunt halo
Exsang is cool and all but have you hear about our lord and savior nf rogue?
whole mason
i think its data mining on ptr...
fickle jolt
No copium here. Just waiting before I bring out the salt
warm parcel
Im sorry man. Its just historically been ..
Well
Ptr is what you get
Might get a number changed
balmy condor
Not a lot to be done with it either honestly aside from a rework
fickle jolt
I mean, it could get worse 🤪
grand ridge
I want duskwaler/obedience
ebon thorn
its okay guys, master poisoner, nightstalker, mfd, venom rush and hidden blades will be meta for sure
grand ridge
1 min vendetta and flag
balmy condor
But like if they change the 2pc from 25 to 30% crit wow wee
ebon thorn
balmy condor
You mean today?
balmy condor
Mfd is currently meta pick
warm parcel
Oh
balmy condor
warm parcel
Letsgoo
balmy condor
Green name caught slippin
warm parcel
What happened
limber lion
Would have been for longer if someone had pushed the apl changes previously...
Which were suggested back in CN
warm parcel
Hey I logged in for the anniversary
limber lion
limber lion
MfD has always been good and we already did some research into removing the pre-pull condition for one
balmy condor
Cp good
warm parcel
Sync shiv to it?
limber lion
And we're Venthyr haters here
versed mica
there's got to be a blizzard employee in this disc, they made 4pc exang bc they knew whispyr was gonna be bombarded by exang meta now!??!?! questions
balmy condor
Sync shiv to it?
Nah on cooldown, sync to flag
limber lion
Sync shiv to it?
Slam on CD, sync to flag
warm parcel
Yeye
balmy condor
there's got to be a blizzard employee in this disc, they made 4pc exang bc they ...
They hate me for sure
limber lion
there's got to be a blizzard employee in this disc, they made 4pc exang bc they ...
I've also been consistently talking about it here and hoping that they add Exsang
So that's good news
I was happy when I woke up
warm parcel
When exactly did the meta dip
whole mason
why they hate you
limber lion
Only to realize 3 minutes later that it's kinda shit
warm parcel
I wanna dig some logs now
versed mica
lmaoo
drifting cloud
its not really meta weak, its better but 80% dont even play it
balmy condor
why they hate you
They’re so jealous of the 5 page guide on the mage tower I have to write in the next couple weeks
limber lion
When exactly did the meta dip
Just kinda recently as Vel and Whispyr got the MfD changes pushed to the apl
warm parcel
:(
limber lion
Like a month or so ago
dawn ivy
yeah mfd is a bit cringe feeling
warm parcel
About when I stopped reading commits
versed mica
god i hope the mage tower is a push over like people are claiming
balmy condor
god i hope the mage tower is a push over like people are claiming
It’s not really
versed mica
having no feint heal leggo makes me scared
limber lion
They’re so jealous of the 5 page guide on the mage tower I have to write in the ...
hey daddy, how do i complete the assass rouge wizard tower??? i tried a poison build but it no work
balmy condor
Honestly I threw like 2 hours at it and couldn’t do it
I know of 3 people that did it
And it took them all day
ruby oyster
wasnt assa tower super easy back then? i dont remember it well
balmy condor
It was back then
Because you took double heal lego
And just tanked it
But you can’t do that anymore
whole mason
back then you have all the kit
now considering the fact they even nerfed the bottle
vial
i mean
balmy condor
Self healing got nerfed quite a lot since then
grim hornet
dunno why don't want to implement the pickpocketing reagens for vial tbh...
grim hornet
it seemed so much fun
ruby oyster
i remember taking heal lego for sub tower because i had no idea how to play that spec lol but that was quite late into xpack
limber lion
Is the mage tower in the game currently?
balmy condor
My fails on ptr were 90% just running out of heals
grand ridge
just skip this round and come back with a set bonus from this new tier
balmy condor
Is the mage tower in the game currently?
No
limber lion
Ah
grand ridge
save yourself some frustration
versed mica
implying sin tier set bonus will help
arctic hare
Honestly I threw like 2 hours at it and couldn’t do it
Apparently, you gotta stun one of them and keep going
warm parcel
Madge
limber lion
But it was done and perfected by Whispyr/Vel via dm's
balmy condor
Wowhead explicitly put in the prompt that it should be geared towards people with current gear, no socket cheese or anything
And I’m like
Bruh
How
arctic hare
Like, use blind on one of them, do your best to stunlock the other and go hahaha
arctic hare
Cause apparently that was the strat back in legion
drifting cloud
btw whats the difference between old mfd apl and if you just have 25s pull timer now where you can get the snd up for free?
just the covenant lineup?
soft shale
flag things
balmy condor
btw whats the difference between old mfd apl and if you just have 25s pull timer...
Old mfd apl cast it at -10
warm parcel
Ye at oct 7 now
limber lion
btw whats the difference between old mfd apl and if you just have 25s pull timer...
I did suggest changing the pre-pull condition to 25s, but after some thought it was an awful idea
drifting cloud
is it easy to make a -25 mfd sim? 
limber lion
So the pre-pull condition was just completely removed
balmy condor
is it easy to make a -25 mfd sim? <:monkaHmm:756570808813617254>
Not really
versed mica
oh, did we have to complete the mage tower challenges on every single spec to get the mog?
balmy condor
oh, did we have to complete the mage tower challenges on every single spec to ge...
Just one
limber lion
Still using MfD at 25s is definitely a gain if you're into that sort of stuff
But not by much properly
versed mica
well shoot, might as well just do the outlaw or sub one, it'll probably be 10x easier
gaunt halo
I did manage to complete assa mage tower on the ptr. But that was likely just due to the decanter bug in timewalking
balmy condor
Sub is quite hard too
gaunt halo
But seeing that the decanter bug was still a thing in tw last week it will likely not be fixed
balmy condor
I did manage to complete assa mage tower on the ptr. But that was likely just du...
Yeah I completed it with some cheese but they hotfixed everything out and then couldn’t do it again
I don’t count the cheese stuff
gaunt halo
So if you don't care about your dignity there will probably be easy ways
versed mica
I thought the achieve was just completing every single mage tower scenario, not necessarily on every spec
warm parcel
It doesnt prepull snd at all and still wins?
versed mica
unless they changed that/I misunderstood
balmy condor
It doesnt prepull snd at all and still wins?
Yep
warm parcel
sullen fossil
So.. we are getting a bote exsang without ss? :C
gaunt halo
I thought the achieve was just completing every single mage tower scenario, not ...
For the mount achievement. There's a second achievement for all specs
warm parcel
I need my 25s timers
balmy condor
So.. we are getting a bote exsang without ss? :C
Sure yeah
sullen fossil
Fml
balmy condor
It’s a very discount bote
versed mica
For the mount achievement. There's a second achievement for all specs
there a reward or a title for second one?
gaunt halo
there a reward or a title for second one?
Just a fos i think
versed mica
then yeah idc lmao
warm parcel
Yup
balmy condor
Codex will give like
versed mica
they need to change 2p to make shiv give the player a buff that increases crit chance of bleeds by 25%
balmy condor
3% stam
versed mica
then it won't suck as bad
balmy condor
Cause no renown
warm parcel
Well
warm parcel
They still sticking to assa being st fantasy
limber lion
They should definitely add "- and poisons" to the Shiv line
versed mica
^ that too
dawn ivy
god yes
grim hornet
i don't even know why they didn't in first instance
limber lion
The new 4p Exsang works on poisons as well
dawn ivy
its legitimately weird that its not
limber lion
So kind of a weird choice for them to not include it in the Shiv thing
balmy condor
If it affects the application is could be okay
dawn ivy
yeah
versed mica
dashing would go nice with it if that was the case
balmy condor
I hate this patch just for all the feelcraft cope
versed mica
lmfao
soft shale
dont worry i will feelcraft the fuck out of outlaw rc+dust
ffor assa only if vanish was not so troll
grim hornet
that's sounds horrendous tbh
soft shale
they could also play dust
dawn ivy
on GOD all this expac has done is blue ball me for the next expacs design
this expac feels like a wash
whole mason
toxic onslaught imo leads to energy overflow?
limber lion
This was supposed to be the good expansion
dawn ivy
limber lion
toxic onslaught imo leads to energy overflow?
Definitely will
dawn ivy
they....they said theyll listen this time
balmy condor
Everything will with 4pc
hollow river
I hate this patch just for all the feelcraft cope
balmy condor
Tbh
limber lion
Yeh
dawn ivy
and ff14 surely scares them enough to make 10 good
hollow river
Let us dream
limber lion
and ff14 surely scares them enough to make 10 good
Scares who?
grim hornet
yo NoTrickz
grim hornet
the dream
hollow river
yo NoTrickz
Sup
grim hornet
the dream is true
whole mason
so a 10 is going to happen, right?
grim hornet
and achievable
limber lion
so a 10 is going to happen, right?
Go ask Ion
balmy condor
so a 10 is going to happen, right?
Of course it is
hollow river
A 10?
whole mason
Then I'm happy:)
grim hornet
sylv is daed on my end
dawn ivy
10.0
hollow river
Oh
limber lion
sylv is daed on my end
Whatchu mean, Sylvanas is part of the good guys now
grim hornet
at 301 pull count
versed mica
@limber lion are you memeing or is toxic onslaught actually decent when paired with other leggos
limber lion
Ah right, the fight
hollow river
We’re at ~405
limber lion
<@!165215952479322112> are you memeing or is toxic onslaught actually decent whe...
Meming, probably still bad
hollow river
grim hornet
oh my oh my...
limber lion
Well, the soulbinds are not the best to be honest
hollow river
We don’t raid next week either
grim hornet
i wish u best of lucks
limber lion
And Sepsis is bad
hollow river
soft shale
toxic onslaught has problems with assa as even DW that is the best soulbind
is kind of weak
and no legendaries work really well with sepsis itself
limber lion
Yeh
grim hornet
well, at that point a small break will do u well i think..
versed mica
it would be funny if you could equip outlaw AR leggo and get 6% increase dmg from onslaught AR 
soft shale
as 1:30 min cd is kind of weird for every combo
dawn ivy
i wish theyd just double the proc rates of things instead of cutting their duration in half
limber lion
it would be funny if you could equip outlaw AR leggo and get 6% increase dmg fro...
Toxic Onslaught + Celerity
balmy condor
it would be funny if you could equip outlaw AR leggo and get 6% increase dmg fro...
Pretty sure that’s how that works actually
versed mica
INVEST INVEST STONKS
soft shale
the problem is that the AR does not give 0.8 gcd too
muted ivy
limber lion
Well, don't get too excited
soft shale
that is also a minus for sub and assa
limber lion
Procing AR doesn't mean that you proc Toxic Onslaught
TO is proc'd from the Sepsis stealth ability
Some people thought that getting a proc with Celerity would mean that you also get ShB/Vend, which is not the case
That would be nutty if that was true
It's not like Torghast
:p
balmy condor
It’s actually procced automatically at the end of sepsis now
grim hornet
sadly
dawn ivy
how is that not a leggo
balmy condor
limber lion
It’s actually procced automatically at the end of sepsis now
Yeh, still tied to Sepsis though
versed mica
sin stealing outlaw leggos, its time
limber lion
Good
versed mica
outlaw ranged spec when
grim hornet
i think im gonna have a blast with my pocket minigun
warm parcel
ol tier seems cool
clever kindle
the pantheon of death looks 
balmy condor
U Look 
king
dawn ivy
wow that pantheon fight has most of its abilities already datamined
halcyon silo
I missed a lot of stuff, but I saw that the tier sets came out is the Sin one any good?
dawn ivy
ehhhh
not really
but more time will show how we will do
many classes/specs are looking at their set and thinking it wont compare to their neighbors so we'll just have to see
halcyon silo
Ah ok.
halcyon silo
Just looked and I see. The sub one seems kind of busted
warm parcel
seems alright to me
dawn ivy
we need to see the real functionality of the sub set
because imo if it works how those crackheads in #subtlety think, its going to be way too strong and gets gutted like akaaris in beta
balmy condor
Sin set is very underwhelming
steel ridge
it has little dungeon value, thats for sure
halcyon silo
Yeah it is very unfortunate
balmy condor
It has little value*
steel ridge
i can see it slap in a pvp situation xD
wide ridge
what are the chances we stack mastery and use the vendetta leggo with new tier set? 
fair glade
Hey guys how are you today?
balmy condor
Pvp who cares tho
balmy condor
what are the chances we stack mastery and use the vendetta leggo with new tier s...
Very low
halcyon silo
It will be good for burst though?
dawn ivy
yeah sorta
balmy condor
It’ll be okay yeah
dawn ivy
thats what its intention is LOL
fair glade
Which leggo do you use atm for raiding?
balmy condor
It’s not like giga venth boomkin burst
cobalt pelican
even if bleeds are good it's unlikely mastery will be insane anyway
balmy condor
But it’s something
cobalt pelican
probably just.. tolerable
halcyon silo
Which leggo do you use atm for raiding?
Dashing
balmy condor
Yeh
Mastery probably gets an honorary mention
Just because venth gives every other stat in spades with obedience
spice spire
probably just.. tolerable
No shot, oshosi was right all along, truly a Nostradamus of our time
halcyon silo
Well wouldn't this be good for Necro? And maybe stack it with the Multilate bleed lego?
fair glade
Okok thanks i'm a bit frustrated with brigant i can't really seen the gaining energy i might not play good
spice spire
Well wouldn't this be good for Necro? And maybe stack it with the Multilate blee...
It would! If Necro had a good legendary to work with.. unfortunately deathspike is 0 ST so it’s not even an option
grand ridge
will the mutilate bleed ticking faster really make much of a difference
whole mason
Necro 's problem is in its leggo
spice spire
Compared to a +5-6% venthyr legendary
balmy condor
Necro is big dead
sonic schooner
😔
balmy condor
Deathspike actually a waste of a legendary slot
gaunt halo
That's their theme
whole mason
unless they make new leggos
spice spire
Whispyr murdered my boy :/
sonic schooner
Whisp u hurt me
spice spire
unless they make new leggos
99.99999% they won’t
dawn ivy
its going to be an absolute TRAGEDY if they allow alot of the covenant abilities across all the classes to not get some light this expac
they really should look at deathspike
grand ridge
instead of balancing the covenants they are making it easier to switch with that one legendary
halcyon silo
They just need to make the necro lego actually do something
grand ridge
because the 2 legendary thing is going to make covenants even more imbalanced
spice spire
They gotta fix the legendary first 
spice spire
because the 2 legendary thing is going to make covenants even more imbalanced
But now you have the option to choose so it’s a moot point
That’s true
gaunt halo
Maybe just make both bonespikes hit a st? For double cp? But even then it would probably be bad
spice spire
Not as bad as it once was at least 
sonic schooner
we were able to play kinda everything but now we will be set to venthyr or trolling
😔
dawn ivy
well, for sin yeah
grand ridge
I've only been venth on my rogue
dawn ivy
outlaw goes kyrian
grand ridge
ah yes the pirate gun angel
grim hornet
Angel of death
dawn ivy
i still think sub stays venthyr despite numbers pointing towards kyrian
gaunt halo
Aren't people going kyrian sub already?
muted ivy
Both still good probably
placid cobalt
quick question guys, what happens if you soak black pools on mythic sylvanas with COS active? do u soak pools and get no stacks or they just stay on the ground?
muted ivy
Stay on ground
dawn ivy
you dont soak any pools
placid cobalt
ohhh ok ok thanks
muted ivy
Gl buddy
spice spire
In reality - none of this matters until PTR goes live and testing can happen
balmy condor
Man - IDK which of the rogue set bonuses Iike more
Sub > outlaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> sin
spice spire
Because blizzard took tips are pretty 
bleak sky
WHERE PTR 🤬
alpine latch
Sub > outlaw >>>>>>>>>>>>> sin
You've changed Outlaw boi
spice spire
After American thanksgiving
gaunt halo
I think it heavily depends on what base class changes we will get with 9.2 if any
alpine latch
I'm working on learning Outlaw right now for m+. I just don't enjoy Sub, honestly
halcyon silo
Blizzard hates sin rogue
gaunt halo
9.1 had a bit of class changes didn't it?
halcyon silo
I couldn't understand learning sub I tried. I just like Sin's playstyle
gaunt halo
I'm fine with sin just being average in raid. But I fear m+ will become even worse than this season
dawn ivy
as long as rogue can be top tier i might have a shot at being on roster
idc what spec i gotta play i just dont WANT it to be outlaw
gaunt halo
The 3 dps spec classes usually have a good chance at 1 being decent
spice spire
We’re fine this season - it depends on a lot of things next season. And I don’t think doing the mental gymnastics on a million what ifs is productive so for now I’m on borderline 
overdose
dawn ivy
(or kyrian sub please god dont make me play that mini game with 4 rng factors)
limber lion
The 3 dps spec classes usually have a good chance at 1 being decent
The 3 dps spec classes usually have a good chance at 1 being a dogshit spec
gaunt halo
That aswell. But atleast it's not like ret where it's either good or you need a new class if you wanna dps
dawn ivy
destro locks 😴
grand ridge
what's annoying about outlaw is their set bonus is also single target, but thanks to blade flurry it's also great for aoe
gaunt halo
Set bonuses are all over the place between all the classes. I'm curious how they wanna balance all this with 2 leggos
spice spire
what's annoying about outlaw is their set bonus is also single target, but thank...
Blade flurry being problematic for ST stuff 
In other news the sky is indeed blue
halcyon silo
Gunslinger class for Outlaw lol
balmy condor
Flurry makes outlaw so awkward to balance tbh
If you buff literally anything
You’re buffing single target and aoe at the same time
Like you can’t buff pistol shot, or bte
Cause it all just flurries
If you buff flurry, you start using that in single target probably too
halcyon silo
Lol
balmy condor
Just a mess
meager swallow
Breakdown the negatives to the set bonus verse the positives at first glance for assination.
dawn ivy
uh
bad
the entire set is assuming we do big dam with dots
and we dont
so
bad
paper math done by smarter people than I said 2p is less than 1.5% increase and the 4p is barely decent
grand ridge
I hope the extra energy we get during vendetta makes duskwalker/obe become a thing
And we can flag/vendetta once a minute
Or close to it
dawn ivy
the energy we get from 4p wont be the reason we go dusk/obe
soft shale
dont worry you will go necro
dawn ivy
we can already take those two and get them synced to 1 minute
soft shale
for faster sbs ticks
gaunt halo
Aren't we pretty much energy capped in vendetta anyway?
soft shale
just problem is deathspike is kinda troll
dawn ivy
eh
grand ridge
We can use the overhead from vendetta to give ourselves more mastery vers too
dawn ivy
alright now
its going to take quite a bit of crit and haste for us to actually LOOK into mastery
soft shale
i dont think people look forward to refresh rupture three times in 20 secs
dawn ivy
it might be better than this tier but it wont be much better than it already is
im fine with it honestly
grand ridge
They will if dps meter = big
soft shale
well at least garrote is kinda decent to use every like 6 secs in that window
dawn ivy
its going to be akward trying to get garrote on a council fight
if your main target just keeps dropping garrote while youre trying to set up 3 lmao
grand ridge
If you have a ton of energy from vendetta and the 4 set letting a garrote or two fall off on your alt targets won't be a huge deal
Plus if subterfuge becomes meta you can garrote them all every other vendetta
spice spire
dont worry you will go necro
There’s absolutely no way
Those ticks are worth the obedience difference
spice spire
I did but even then saying “you’ll go necro” is hella troll
If deathspike even resembles an ST legendary it’s positioned well sure, but no shot it’s happening
And I’ve been a necrolord overdoser
soft shale
i mean if deathspike was decent st the tier set has all the sinergy for necro
but then you remember deathspike is a leggo
spice spire
It’s true 
soft shale
like its so funny they make the tier so lackluster in theory and the only cov that would benefit apart from nf that is also troll
has the shittiest st leggo
gloomy knoll
i dont think people look forward to refresh rupture three times in 20 secs
It’d just be twice
You’d set up dots before vendetta do your shiv window and then refresh after shiv window
viscid spear
Are we sure anyone at Blizz plays the class, let alone this spec?
frosty bridge
Are we sure anyone at Blizz plays the class, let alone this spec?
I'm sure they do
in LFR
viscid spear
I mean the other two specs have pretty decent sets and then there's ours
spice spire
I’m pretty sure qwik’s alt is a rogue
muted ivy
They’re thinking back to BfA rogue but forgot that our bleeds do no dam now
peak bobcat
Mastery stack inc
muted ivy
Plz no
viscid spear
Mastery stack inc
muted ivy
Imagine another DoT class stacking mastery, very unique
hollow river
I definitely thought all the tier sets would be more powerful
Or a bit more interactive
Outlaws is probably the main gameplay changing one
golden basalt
Idk, its a BtE proc
Sub going super sonic with insane ShB uptime seems like a bigger gameplay change
muted ivy
Tfw max was like “these sets are gonna be nuts cuz someone’s probably just been banking them” and I was like ya that’ll totally happen
pearl basin
My wishlist was one of:
Envemon crits cause all dots to tick again
Vendetta applies to all enemies 8yds around target
Sounds more interesting than what we got
indigo ginkgo
i di call it exsaguinate set tier next patch, its was the normal call for them, we had 2 dead talents never used, of course they would get a way for us to at least consider ! exsaguinate and master poison
limber lion
i di call it exsaguinate set tier next patch, its was the normal call for them, ...
Neither of those talents will see play with the tier set
That's not how talents work either
If a talent is bad, you rework/buff the talent
You don't build a tier set around a talent that's rotten to its core
indigo ginkgo
that when you play the class, but do they play the class on blizard ?, i think they just trow ideas, and then came look to foruns for the revamp !! aahahaah
limber lion
that when you play the class, but do they play the class on blizard ?, i think t...
But you said they built a set so we could test new talents
indigo ginkgo
i just wont a good tier set
limber lion
And that's just not how it works
And yes, some of them do play the game
I'd argue that most do
indigo ginkgo
wrong expression from my part
grand ridge
Honestly I'm just happy we have set bonuses again
hollow river
Sub going super sonic with insane ShB uptime seems like a bigger gameplay change
Yeah idk about super sonic
grand ridge
This one isn't the best one we've seen but there are some interesting bonuses. I really like the prot paladin one
hollow river
They seem to think the sub tier is lackluster too
faint harness
They seem to think the sub tier is lackluster too
All depends on how the 4p works
if that shadowstrike gives cps, it will have gameplay implications. If its just a dmg proc, then ye not very exciting
fading adder
if that shadowstrike gives cps, it will have gameplay implications. If its just ...
I can’t imagine we get CPs from it. Itd be beta akaari shit all over again
slow marsh
That our tier set was some jank ass shit
faint harness
I can’t imagine we get CPs from it. Itd be beta akaari shit all over again
nah not even close
hollow river
if that shadowstrike gives cps, it will have gameplay implications. If its just ...
True true
faint harness
akaari was doubling the CP gain from shadowstrike
hollow river
Imagine if it works like nado
faint harness
this thing will proc like 15-20 times on a 5 min fight
faint harness
so it could give cps without being busted
fading adder
I’d love to see it give CPs. The speed of the class would be great. I’d assume we’re going to be near energy capped when we hit vendetta and all our bleeds are running through at Mach 3
faint harness
not sure you can spend all that energy ngl
soft shale
the problem is
fading adder
There’s two separate thoughts in that lol
fading adder
Right. It’s gunna be really awkward in that 10 second window
faint harness
i mean if you can deplete like 3 whole ruptures in 1 vendetta thats pretty good burst
i guess
soft shale
and garrote
what i find so sad in the crossfire
is that necro is completely dead
when that set is made for it
fading adder
I wonder what’ll sim higher. Subterfuge or MA
faint harness
I wonder what’ll sim higher. Subterfuge or MA
subterfuge for sure right
soft shale
ma is weak as f rn
fading adder
Id imagine it’d be similar to where we were with shrouded suff in bfa
Not nearly as hard but similar design philosophy
slow marsh
subterfuge for sure right
Yeah
It's already only less than 40dps behind MA if you turn off Dom set
NS is also real close but I'm assuming subt is the one that sees play for raid
fading adder
Sin will have some nutty openers
slow marsh
Not really. Kinda just feels bad idk
After sleeping on it it feels worse than it did last night
faint harness
slept on the set
slow marsh
Lmao you eu noob
Well to be fair I went to sleep around 330 am and it's currently 830almost
indigo ginkgo
do we still get full energie returns on that ruptures tiking on the vendetta buff from set ?
limber lion
Likely
viscid spear
Static-X starts playing
BLED FOR DAY-E-YAY-E-YAYS!
limber lion
Most definitely even
slow marsh
I’m pretty sure qwik’s alt is a rogue
No shot it's actually played
indigo ginkgo
juice envenoms then
limber lion
Not really
spice spire
Didn’t he do some mid tier keys with it?
shell ivy
its quite sad how sin's bonus is like super boring but its probably the best for ST compared to sub and outlaw
limber lion
its quite sad how sin's bonus is like super boring but its probably the best for...
Not true
shell ivy
dunno compared to other sepcs
slow marsh
We will hardly be able to envenom anymore
shell ivy
isnt it only for aoe tho
slow marsh
No
limber lion
Lol no
slow marsh
Outlaw is also better ST than us
shell ivy
i mean it'll be one potential more SS after an evis or rupture
plain onyx
rank 5 is the cap level of shards guys ?
limber lion
Yes
limber lion
i mean it'll be one potential more SS after an evis or rupture
Do you know what the 2p does?
One extra ss means extra value from the 2p
slow marsh
They get sub's shadow tech as a 2p and their main St prio button gets reset
shell ivy
oh true i was only comparing the 4p ones
why does the 2p feel so much better than the 4p
bruh
i guess they go together anyways
limber lion
Oh yes they do
faint harness
I’m pretty sure qwik’s alt is a rogue
the devs have also said qwik havent said a word to anyone yet
faint harness
so him pushing some class agenda is very likely not even a thing
shell ivy
so the fact that we will have less envenoms? in our vendetta window make it not as good as it seem?
spice spire
I doubt he’d even push class agenda as that’s not really his job, yeah?
slow marsh
Yes
faint harness
exsang isnt very good by itself
slow marsh
Exsang sucks and this is only a slightly better exsang
faint harness
but i will say that if this exsang can snapshot, it will make assa more interesting
8.3 levels of interesting
spice spire
Exsang does snapshot
faint harness
ye but does vendetta exsang
slow marsh
We get some more value out of it since we'll play dusk and have 1min flag + 1 min vendetta but the 4p still not gonna be a big increase
shell ivy
man the sin one is quite sad compared to sub
if the SS gives cp
its gonna be poggers
slow marsh
It's sad compared to both
faint harness
the 2p should work on poisons too
slow marsh
It's on top 3 worst bonus list
shell ivy
It's on top 3 worst bonus list
oof
limber lion
If the 2p gave crit to poisons as well it probably be decent
faint harness
ye
shell ivy
have u read all of thjem? which one is the best
limber lion
arcane and fire are nuts
shell ivy
mage stonks it seems
faint harness
destro seemed good at first glance but after looking at the 2p more its probably not as good considering where destro starts off baseline
gusty mirage
Ayo fuck mage like real talk
slow marsh
Can't have fire be not meta for more than half a tier. Better pump it up
faint harness
fire mage is already a top tier spec and getting a huge set bonus
spice spire
ye but does vendetta exsang
I would think so? Nightstalker is looking like the better snapshot talent though, I’d think
faint harness
true
slow marsh
Na NS snap isn't as good
spice spire
But again this is a lot of “I think” until PTR is out
faint harness
50% ruptures pog
gusty mirage
fire mage is already a top tier spec and getting a huge set bonus
And they’ll magically shit out like 3k dps again by 9.2 I’m sure
slow marsh
You have to take mfd
viscid spear
Fire becomes the Fire, how fun
faint harness
also, current casters are not losing daggers or special weapons worth several % of dps
gusty mirage
Fire just magically seems to find more and more damage
faint harness
they got a "bugfix" that gave them 5% dmg mid patch 🙂
its one of the things only a fire mage can get
viscid spear
I'll be playing Toxic Onslaught with Exsang
wrangle this little piggy up, boys! Yeehaw
spice spire
I'll be playing Toxic Onslaught with Exsang
Based
slow marsh
Fire mages are gonna be in venth boomie territory, deaths included
slow marsh
Start combust a half hp, kill themselves in 5 globals
limber lion
gusty mirage
I legit can't wait to play TO Exsang no cap
slow marsh
STOP
limber lion
Grove Invigoration gives like 123809 mastery
spice spire
I can only take so much cope
limber lion
imagine
spice spire
Oshosi had a sleeper agent among us all along :/
faint harness
i wonder if sepsis works on the vend exsang
limber lion
Wouldn't think so honestly
slow marsh
Sepsis isn't poison
limber lion
Doesn't with Exsang talent
indigo mulch
Sepsis is magic.
faint harness
oh right
indigo mulch
Isent it?
faint harness
its nature dmg
spice spire
Ye
limber lion
Wat
slow marsh
It's nature damage and buffed by shiv but not a poison
faint harness
weird shit
spice spire
Correct
faint harness
it being buffed by shiv is why i think it might work
gusty mirage
So they gonna fix the poison application bug now that they decided to give us a 4pc that speeds up poison ticks?
spice spire
No shot
slow marsh
If NF was ever gonna work it would've been with pseudo 100% crit this tier
faint harness
that could be pretty good with toxic onslaught, getting blades and AR like 5 seconds into the vendetta dmg
indigo mulch
Exsang vendetta with scundrel and venthyr leggo seams pretty legit to me though 😒
slow marsh
Na
faint harness
too much energy
slow marsh
Dusk
slow marsh
It already is
limber lion
Dusk + Obe
gusty mirage
Or Doomblade
Ye I was thinking doom was going to be good if it works on the dot
limber lion
Yeh because it's bad
indigo mulch
I dunno 25% crit from crit during vendetta will just give you unlimited energy :S
slow marsh
Crit has no affect on energy
proven brook
He means with dashing
slow marsh
Dashing affects poisons our trash 2p affects bleeds
indigo mulch
Oh yeah, its not poison your right
slow marsh
My love child that is dashing's days are over
indigo mulch
Then yeah, dashing is poo tier.
gusty mirage
God that probably means another tier of mfd
slow marsh
It's dusk obed for venthyr and not sure if anything else can even compete but people will try to do some NF stuff
gusty mirage
slow marsh
Vigor
spice spire
God that probably means another tier of mfd
BASED
spice spire
Deeper tier
indigo mulch
Overcapping energy is a good problem to have though 😄
Means more buttonmashing!
😄
spice spire
EP/Deeper is inevitable kings
slow marsh
I want ep/deeper
proven brook
Yeah ep/deeper is super likely
faint harness
its funny how blizz killed necro with 1 single change
limber lion
Nah DS is dog
faint harness
without going too much into boss journal spoilers
limber lion
Necro is goner
faint harness
sadge
grand ridge
Venthyr is best anyways
slow marsh
DS isn't dog, we will just be required to have the extra energy cap to not waste more than we already will
limber lion
DS isn't dog, we will just be required to have the extra energy cap to not waste...
wat
spice spire
Deathspike, king
slow marsh
You said DS right after we talked about deeper
gusty mirage
limber lion
I said DS right after Push talked about Necro
spice spire
Caught in 4K 
slow marsh
Ok well you're such a boomer I just figured you were late
spice spire
slow marsh
Seeing as you're retired and all
spice spire
Mf aren’t you married
limber lion
still mashing my keys faster than anyone else
gusty mirage
slow marsh
My birthday is Tuesday I'll be 29
indigo mulch
How many seconds can we actually shave off with duskwalker though?
slow marsh
Not 30 yet boys let's go
slow marsh
Dusk currently gives us 1min vendetta
grand ridge
If you can press a key on your keyboard once every second I think you can manage
slow marsh
I'm young at heart
grand ridge
It's more about playing a lot
slow marsh
Like 8 years old intellectually
spice spire
Tbf between myself, oxi, and lazy you’re the youngest barely
slow marsh
It balances out
gusty mirage
Ok nevermind you're old as fuck
slow marsh
Oxi is a lawyer tho hes allowed to be old
dark token
Where tier set sims 
slow marsh
In the trash
gusty mirage
spice spire
True
indigo mulch
Damn really? Eff you oxi for being hot and having a good job with a lot of money.
bleak sky
monkaS boomers
limber lion
I look like a fetus and I'm 25
spice spire
I look like a fetus and I'm 25
That’s a damn lie
gusty mirage
Damn really? Eff you oxi for being hot and having a good job with a lot of money...
Minus the last bit ye
And the first bit
slow marsh
Needs shirtless stream for his debut back
indigo mulch
Your a lawyer!
spice spire
Anyway
gusty mirage
Needs shirtless stream for his debut back
You can find those already, onlyfans.com/ceverion
indigo mulch
I'm a head chef, i make like no money lol
limber swallow
what on earth is going on here?
limber lion
surely head-anything makes big boy bucks
indigo mulch
what on earth is going on here?
We're fangirling over oxi.
limber lion
except head-giver
gusty mirage
I'm a head chef, i make like no money lol
I do a lot of pro bono work
spice spire
Shiving on cooldown 
gusty mirage
limber swallow
We're fangirling over oxi.
zomg.. back off
spice spire
slow marsh
I was really hoping I would wake up and our tier set would just be a bad dream
proven brook
I do a lot of pro bono work
A man of the people
gusty mirage
Sorry boys I’ve got only two people I simp for, whispyr and cev
spice spire
Damn homie
Just stick a dagger through my heart rn
You’d have to loot one first tho
:/
gusty mirage
WOW
limber swallow
Sorry boys I’ve got only two people I simp for, whispyr and cev
you're hating on your fans... that's only going to make them love you more.
gusty mirage
It’s okay I’ll get it out of the vault after thanksgiving for sure
gusty mirage
you're hating on your fans... that's only going to make them love you more.
Idk why I even have fans
gusty mirage
You apparently have a number one fan king
spice spire
viscid spear
What are the chances they tweak the sets to not be so...💩?
kindred rapids
So is it time to pack it in?
slow marsh
Na
kindred rapids
We had a nice run
gusty mirage
I think they’re going to tweak some legendaries too because of the two leggo system
So who knows
bleak sky
So is it time to pack it in?
yes, shadowpriest reroll inc
gusty mirage
Y’all abandoning ship already? Smh
muted ivy
have fun overcapping insanity
limber lion
Ya'll are crazy if you're running away from the beauty that is Toxic Onslaught Exsanguinate Assassin Rogue
bleak sky
Y’all abandoning ship already? Smh
no but that's my next alt for sure
gusty mirage
NF rogue 
spice spire
Cev 
proven brook
Sheesh we got some non believers 😦
slow marsh
I mean a lot of people fotm rolled rogue this tier
drifting cloud
Ya'll are crazy if you're running away from the beauty that is Toxic Onslaught E...
slow marsh
So we should be sending them off
muted ivy
slow marsh
True
gusty mirage
If homies trying to play fotm they’re in the wrong channel
kindred rapids
When you could just be fotg and roll mage
You mean Boomie?
muted ivy
you mean warlock?
proven brook
If homies trying to play fotm they’re in the wrong channel
So true
slow marsh
I was gonna say something about how easy it was to parse as rogue as long as you have rank 5 frost
spice spire
I said flavor of the game, not of the expansion 
gusty mirage
You mean Boomie?
That’s because fire mages didn’t find their next 5-10% “bug fix” yet
spice spire
That’s because fire mages didn’t find their next 5-10% “bug fix” yet
All nerfs are just a buff in disguise 
gusty mirage
Seem to just shit out huge optimizations every other week
Fire mage will be bad in SL
viscid spear
Ya'll are crazy if you're running away from the beauty that is Toxic Onslaught E...
I'd prefer my nightmares to stay in my dreams
kindred rapids
Fire mage in my guild is already beating me on st. Might as well give up now 🤣
gusty mirage
At least they have a chance of killing themselves during combust now
It’s a gift from the gods
slow marsh
It truly is
polar cape
Hates mages tbh
viscid spear
Oddly we don't have a mage in our guild group, maybe that'll change
Also that loser Xy'mox is back
gusty mirage
Imagine that 4pc on a boss like mythic sylv where there’s an obscene amount of damage periodically
“Fuck I died during combust”
slow marsh
"HUGE BUST oh I'm dead"
viscid spear
"Where's my heals?!?1?"
slow marsh
Good thing they have 4 different ways to not die right
plain onyx
Got 50 embers to upgrade one, which one i should be going for ?
gusty mirage
Got 50 embers to upgrade one, which one i should be going for ?
Damage one first
For frost
Do tel last because it’s broken and will probably never be fixed before 9.2