assassination

[balmy condor]

now it's 1.4% set bonus

[slow marsh]

I think the 4p + dusk will make us ok

[oak sky]

numbers arent set, everything on ptr is somewhat subject to change

[slow marsh]

But I'm still gonna push for changes in ptr

[balmy condor]

well the problem is you can't go higher than 100% crit

and 100% crit doesn't sound good either

[obtuse robin]

so where the fuck did koji get the 2p is a flat 10 % increase

dratnos said the same thing

[slow marsh]

Koji is koji

[balmy condor]

WHAT

[dawn ivy]

he never said that

[fleet whale]

what weed are they smoking

[dawn ivy]

calm down

[fleet whale]

like how

[balmy condor]

no shot

koji said that

[dawn ivy]

he did not say 10% lmfao

[limber lion]

[gloomy knoll]

it was like a 0 dps loss to take that talent in nathria i don't see how we wouldn't take it here

[obtuse robin]

sec

[fleet whale]

since you have a pic of a shibe, i'll be nice and assume it's prolly just misunderstanding a comment they made

[obtuse robin]

am i dumb

'

[dawn ivy]

TO

BLEEDS

[obtuse robin]

ok

[fleet whale]

he just misread

[slow marsh]

Being forced to play obed and 2 and 4p interacting with bleeds we will be running CT in ST mark my words

[limber lion]

To bleeds my guy

[fleet whale]

no big deal

[dawn ivy]

whispyr is talking in full context of the spec

[obtuse robin]

like homie said its 3 am

[oak sky]

14%->15.4%

[dawn ivy]

not just bleeds haha

[oak sky]

not literally

obviously

since thats not how math works

[fleet whale]

it's fine everyone it was just misread

[balmy condor]

okay well 10% to bleeds would be 1.5%

which is higher than my napkin math

but still 1.5%

[dawn ivy]

what are legion 2p normally at?

[oak sky]

[fleet whale]

yeah 1.5% is weak af for a tier

[dawn ivy]

3-4%?

[fleet whale]

antorus full set was like 12% or something

[limber lion]

Who remembers stuff like that

[dawn ivy]

id like to see everyones % gain from 2p and 4p

[fleet whale]

but considering antorus set is literally dashing

[limber lion]

I mean some specs are definitely crazier than others

[fleet whale]

it was def higher than 1.5%

like 1.5% would be considering very week for a tier set bonus, i remember looking at spread sheets for this

[fallow otter]

Me2

[slow marsh]

We're gonna end up lower dps than the current tier

[fallow otter]

But I can't put my finger on location

[oak sky]

why do you say stuff like this

[hoary night]

let me make a prediction here: we go for Obedience + Duskwalker, stats in crit and mas, with MfD talent

[balmy condor]

if you just say the vendetta effect is 100% more bleed damage for 20 seconds every 2 min, then that's a 16-17% increase

[slow marsh]

Why not

[balmy condor]

to bleeds

which would also be like 2.5% or whatever

put em together, you get 4%

[fleet whale]

i don't see duskwalker being the play btw

[oak sky]

because how would you know

[balmy condor]

add some extra for shiv + vend big burst stonks

[fleet whale]

even if it synergizes with the set

[balmy condor]

you're at like what

5%? 5.5%?

[slow marsh]

Cuz frost set

[balmy condor]

for a 2 and 4 set combined

[oak sky]

and?

[strange python]

Tbh sub tier seems much better 😦

[limber lion]

We will never stack mastery and with the frost set gone neither will we stack crit

[obtuse robin]

[balmy condor]

sub tier is much much better

[strange python]

Yep…

[limber lion]

It's haste time again boys

[fleet whale]

too bad we have 0 corruption

[obtuse robin]

[fallow otter]

Far too early to be doom and gloom

[oak sky]

@slow marsh frost set exists but you don't know how much damage we gain past our baseline with just gear, especially since you dont know the stat priority for next tier or any of our gear options

[strange python]

Poor outlaw 😂😂😂😂

[fleet whale]

outlaw one seems fine tbh

[slow marsh]

I am from the future I know all

[oak sky]

obviously

[limber lion]

Surely with Doomblade we'll do more

[balmy condor]

I think it's hilarious as well that people remember 8.3 so fondly for exsang, but even with shrouded and galecaller and exsang and haste corruptions and vita, the whole bleed build was only like 1% ahead of toxic blade and double dose

[obtuse robin]

they gave us a tier where we were good we had our fun

[balmy condor]

[limber lion]

Insane 0.1% interaction from Doomy

[fleet whale]

do people really remember 8.3 fondly

[balmy condor]

yes

very

[slow marsh]

Cev does

[balmy condor]

why do you think people are hype for vendetta exsang

exsang means 8.3 and 8.3 means fun build

ook ook infinite haste

[oak sky]

zug zug

[limber lion]

Yeh but I think that's also one reason why people enjoyed it so much, because it allows you to play something else which changes up your rotation once every 2 years

Not because we were forced to do so

[obtuse robin]

so did cev wish this into existence

[slow marsh]

Hey if sub can have infinite shadowblades and outlaw gets infinite good buffs shouldn't sin get infinite shiv at least?

[dawn ivy]

it was also way more fun than anything we'd had that expac

[limber lion]

I couldn't care less about faster or slower apm on Assa

[strange python]

So, summarizing we habe to change to NF covenant 😄

[balmy condor]

infinite shiv is probably better than whatever this is

[limber lion]

But Exsang was a breath of fresh air

[thorn turtle]

Is it hard rn to get on par with u all if I’m 220 ilvl? Catching up is kinda strange

[limber lion]

But this is not exactly what I had in mind

[balmy condor]

spam m+ to 246

[fleet whale]

it would prolly help if blizz bothered to give exsang any sort of animation

it's literally just evis copied over

[limber lion]

Some people like to play the exact same rotation and spec for years and years

I like it when we get new stuff that changes shit up

[oak sky]

that doesnt make the talent good

[balmy condor]

animation does not change that it's the worst talent on the tree

[limber lion]

Doubt this tier set will do much in terms of that though.

[slow marsh]

I like new stuff too

[thorn turtle]

But new rating system kills me, don’t need rio anymore right?

[obtuse robin]

yea thats why i like the 4pc but ppl are just focused on the numbers

[balmy condor]

rio and in game io are the same number

[fallow otter]

In ST sure, but in many fights had cleave

[oak sky]

the 4pc doesnt really change anything

[slow marsh]

But I like new stuff that's nice, not new stuff from value bin at Fred Meyer ya know

[dawn ivy]

@thorn turtle do rift farms

[thorn turtle]

What’s that hesus

[gloomy knoll]

iuno

[dawn ivy]

@thorn turtle fastest way to farm to ~235 ilvl

[obtuse robin]

it changes what buttons we press during cd's?

[gloomy knoll]

i think it has more potential than we give it

[oak sky]

we already have to refresh during shiv and vendetta

[gloomy knoll]

crimson tempest does like 10-15% of my damage and that's not using it in opener and letting it fall off during shiv

[oak sky]

i see no difference

[dawn ivy]

it 100% changes our current rotation in raid

[gloomy knoll]

does it seem insane no but i'm sure it's better than we think rn

[obtuse robin]

wat

[slow marsh]

It's the same exact gameplay unless we have to use CT in ST

Even then the principal is the same

Just press it more often

[limber lion]

I mean I can definitely see Subt/Nightstalker beating MA with this change

[gloomy knoll]

yea

[oak sky]

this is potentially true

[limber lion]

Maybe we can use the MA legendary now as well

[gloomy knoll]

back to the old vanish rupture days

[limber lion]

[hoary night]

I just wonder if this vend exsag stack with our regular exsag

[slow marsh]

Subt is like -40 or something close currently with no Dom set

[balmy condor]

it will

[gloomy knoll]

regular exsang is dog poop and will never be used

[limber lion]

Probably but it doesn't sound great

[oak sky]

i swear cev

[limber lion]

?

[slow marsh]

I imagine just with 2p subt overtakes that 40 dps

CEV STOP

[fleet whale]

i imagine it would stack but that doesn't sound as good as you think

[slow marsh]

You've done enough

[oak sky]

i just think its funny ur always on the ma leggo stuff

[fleet whale]

cause of diminishing returns and all of that

[slow marsh]

We have this 4p because of you

[limber lion]

MA is the best legendary we have in the game and it's not even close

[gloomy knoll]

it is a fun leggo

[slow marsh]

Actually wait yeah keep talking about MA I'd much prefer that to exsang

[fleet whale]

plus you would likely still want the haste from alac for this vendetta exsang

[dawn ivy]

maybe if vanish wasnt a 2 minute cd

[limber lion]

Ya'll go bonkers over boring ass passive shit

That you'll never feel

[slow marsh]

Hey guys my uncle who works at blizzard just texted me that they're changing the sin 4p

[oak sky]

i mean we already play MA talent

[limber lion]

mi brain goes when i see dat 3 apm increase from dashing

[subtle tundra]

Obe is the best leggo and youre wrong

[limber lion]

MA talent and the legendary are different things

[spark scaffold]

Doesn't it sound a bit like they are trying to make mastery a more used stat for sin and outlaw?

[dawn ivy]

sure

[oak sky]

i know the leggo lasts longer

[fleet whale]

it will still be garbo

[dawn ivy]

but not enough for us to actually grab it

[limber lion]

We will mainly be stacking haste again in 9.2

[fleet whale]

for both

[spark scaffold]

Since atm its dead last at any gear level

[dawn ivy]

but it will be worth having now maybe

[limber lion]

Big doubt

[fleet whale]

also note that haste is basically a better version of mastery

[limber lion]

Haste is the stat for yall

[slow marsh]

He said that 4p is changing to when you cast vendetta, you reset the cooldown on vanish

[limber lion]

Mastery is bad

Just because we get 20s of exsang everyb2 minutes

Will not make mastery good

[gloomy knoll]

every 1 minute

[limber lion]

Yuk

[gloomy knoll]

duskwalker obedience 1 minute sin meta

[oak sky]

the sim recommends 50 more mastery on top gear

[balmy condor]

@slow marsh initial sims btw put dusk/obed about 1.5-2% behind obed/dashing btw

[slow marsh]

He told me that Cev wouldn't shut up about MA so they changed it

[balmy condor]

seems.... maybe?

but it's probably close

[gloomy knoll]

dusk meta it is babeeee

[spark scaffold]

Not saying it will be good, but also probably not as bad as it is atm

[dawn ivy]

thats excluding the new set bonus ofc?

[balmy condor]

yeah no set bonus no sylv dagger

[spark scaffold]

I'd have 0 mastery if i could

[fleet whale]

I sometimes think you guys just want to have a different leggo be meta just to a have a different leggo to be the meta

[dawn ivy]

yes....

[limber lion]

Yo omg guyd

[dawn ivy]

lol

[oak sky]

(they do)

[obtuse robin]

yes lol

[slow marsh]

If it's within 1% I'll take the 1min CDs any day

[limber lion]

Zoldyck will be meta omfg guys!!!

Imagine the value

[balmy condor]

I mean dusk obed is good synergy tbh

[limber lion]

Exsang

Extra bleedy boy crita

[gloomy knoll]

also makes tier set better

[dawn ivy]

doubles the 4 pc

[limber lion]

Zoldyekv for 30% more damage for infinite damage stack glitch

[obtuse robin]

well my uncle also works for bliz zand said zovaal dies at 35

[limber lion]

Waow

[slow marsh]

Talk about SCALING

[obtuse robin]

so yea no zold

[balmy condor]

dusk on it's own is 4% behind, but it's 1.5% on my most optimized profile, and if 4 set is 2%, then it's basically equal

[gloomy knoll]

crimson tempest + either ns juiced rupture or + sub juiced garret + obedience vers/haste every minute is pog

[slow marsh]

I'm assuming that's without CT as well

[limber lion]

What about NS/Subt + Doomblade/MA uwu

[balmy condor]

MA is probably dead

[slow marsh]

No shot obed MA is a thing

[limber lion]

Yeh most likely won't be

[oak sky]

flag without MA

[spark scaffold]

How much does dusk reduce vendetta in 1 min usually?

[limber lion]

I mean lets be real

Doom/Dashing probs bis

[slow marsh]

Dusk already brings vend to 1min currently

[balmy condor]

dusk cuts vend to about 1:10 cd

[gloomy knoll]

what about with added obedience haste

[limber lion]

Does Doom's dot get affected by the exsang thingu?

[dawn ivy]

ive been getting it to 1 minute pretty reasonably

[limber lion]

Probs right

[gloomy knoll]

probably

[spark scaffold]

Damn so you can line up obe and vendetta

[slow marsh]

It'll be guaranteed 1min maybe 55s

[spark scaffold]

Thats so useful for prog rather than having 2 mins

[slow marsh]

Ye

[oak sky]

i think its assumed yes rn

[limber lion]

I hate Duskies

Ngl

[slow marsh]

I hate it too

[balmy condor]

sim lines up vend/obed every 1:10

[dawn ivy]

yeah because of flag

[spark scaffold]

Unless you have heavy execute phase i'd always rather have 1 mins

[dawn ivy]

flag rarely gets the full 30 stacks

[gloomy knoll]

with 4 pc you get more energy

[dawn ivy]

but maybe with more energy we can more reliably get closer to 1 minute

[gloomy knoll]

= more stacks

[slow marsh]

We likely get the 30 stacks next tier tho

Every time

[dawn ivy]

well

[balmy condor]

you're overcapping in vend anyway

[dawn ivy]

we're already almost gcd capped right now

[gloomy knoll]

nah you run out of energy

after like

6-7 seconds

and are back to normal

you'd be juiced on energy the entire vendetta now

[fleet whale]

how much you crit determines how many flag stacks you get, or how quickly you get them

[spark scaffold]

With pi, hero and 51% crit i still get only 28-29 stacks

[fleet whale]

not so much energy

[spark scaffold]

Idk about getting 30

[gloomy knoll]

i mean both do

[slow marsh]

We are one or two globals from 30stacks currently so surely we get 30 with higher haste

And crit

[limber lion]

We will not be getting 30 stacks

[slow marsh]

We

[dawn ivy]

we wont get full 30

[gloomy knoll]

but even if it's

[slow marsh]

You're retired

[gloomy knoll]

1:10

[limber lion]

We're sitting at 45% crit currently

[gloomy knoll]

it's still pog

[limber lion]

It's tied to crit chance

Not energy/haste

[fleet whale]

just run BS

[gloomy knoll]

the point is they line up

[dawn ivy]

we literally dont have the window to get it even if we were global locked

[fleet whale]

and get lucky procs

[limber lion]

If we don't crit with Mutis, unlucky

[fleet whale]

and there you go 30 stacks

[slow marsh]

We'll still be stacking crit to drs boys

[spark scaffold]

Wait why 45% crit though

[fleet whale]

yeah there's gonna be a soft crit cap to reach for 9.3

[slow marsh]

True we might only get 28 stacks

[fleet whale]

so you can get those flag stacks

[gloomy knoll]

as long as dusk makes

[hoary night]

27 is what we usually get

[gloomy knoll]

vendetta + flag line up it's pog

[limber lion]

Whatchu mean

[gloomy knoll]

even if it's 1:10 insteaf of 1 min

[spark scaffold]

My simms say 50% is worth at least with current gear

[slow marsh]

Yeah it'd still line up for sure

[limber lion]

Well that's your character

[fleet whale]

sims are different

[limber lion]

It's not the same for everyone

[balmy condor]

dusk without obed is still 66 seconds

[fleet whale]

for each person

[limber lion]

Dusk + Toxic Onslaught

Ya'll are sleeping

[slow marsh]

Boooooooooo

[spark scaffold]

Sure, but how much is bis gear in terms of crit chance?

[fleet whale]

you can't even combine those leggos

[spark scaffold]

Like full bis

[slow marsh]

Dusk loses value with toxic

[oak sky]

this has to be it

[balmy condor]

45%

[slow marsh]

1.5min cd

Wasting vendetta time

[limber lion]

45*, but you don't have bis gear

[oak sky]

i affirm myself to the church of ceverion, king of the fae

[spark scaffold]

Hmm, where the hell am i getting 50 from

[limber lion]

No point looking at bis gear

[oak sky]

[dawn ivy]

@balmy condor how is the sim not able to get vendetta to 1 minute?

[fleet whale]

plus full bis is hard to reach

[limber lion]

My guy

[dawn ivy]

im doing it right now i swear to god

[limber lion]

Your profile is different

[slow marsh]

Crit tea

[balmy condor]

[slow marsh]

It's a sim boys calm

My sim also gets 1min

That's not really the point

[spark scaffold]

Nope no crit tea, and yes I know i don't have bis gea

[hoary night]

My first idea of obe+dusk is right the day they release the cov leggo

[spark scaffold]

Missing the kt neck thats probably the reason

[fleet whale]

i heard a rumor that blizz is gonna add nighthold in for legion timewalking
and in that tw raid, you will be able to get a level 60 version of COF

[balmy condor]

yeah for sure that's the reason

[fleet whale]

seems to be huge for dusk

[limber lion]

Kt neck is like 80% haste

[balmy condor]

KT neck also isn't used in the bis profile

[spark scaffold]

Using the nerzhul 252 one so yea

[balmy condor]

but

I think he's onto it

[slow marsh]

Crit neck is still better atm

[oak sky]

depends on profile!

[limber lion]

I mean I'm using that and it sims better than the KT one

[slow marsh]

Yeah yeah yeah

[spark scaffold]

Where can i see the bis profile?

[gloomy knoll]

i mean we'd have a lot more haste

[limber lion]

Nowhere

[slow marsh]

There isn't one

[gloomy knoll]

and less crit than right now next tier right

cuz no frost set

[limber lion]

You don't need it

Just follow your sims

[slow marsh]

It's 100% irrelevant

[balmy condor]

you'd have to come to my house and pry it from my hard drive

[fleet whale]

bis lists died in legion

[limber lion]

If you sim yourself every time, you'll eventually get bis gear

[limber lion]

Legion?

My guy we had those in 9.0

It was chaos

[slow marsh]

Yeah cuz we won't stack into drs

[balmy condor]

but yeah

bis lists are terrible metrics

[fleet whale]

people may have tried to make them

[hoary night]

the point is depending on raid fight style it makes you a 'tactical utility' class, so you have ~1 min huge cooldowns to take down an urgent add

[balmy condor]

looking at them for anything other than a quick profile to test APL's on is actually just trolling

[slow marsh]

[limber lion]

Not only did we try, we had proper bis lista

But they're awful

[fleet whale]

but with how blizz changed gearing, a lot of tcers advocated not showing or using bis lists

[limber lion]

And you shouldn't look at em

[slow marsh]

I'd hate to waste CDs on an add

When a boss is alive

[balmy condor]

we literally had bis lists in 9.0 to test the waters

[limber lion]

That's not true

Lol

[fleet whale]

how could you have a reliable bis list in legion

[slow marsh]

Bis lists make people make stupid gearing decisions

[fleet whale]

have everything titanforged in it?

[limber lion]

You do realize that we still have bis lists for sims

[spark scaffold]

Sure but when you are 2-3 items from bis it doesnt hurt to know beforehand if kt neck or nerzhul one will be better at full bis

[limber lion]

They're just not shared publicly everywhere

[balmy condor]

unless I made this for nothing and it was all an awful nightmare I haven't woken up from yet

[limber lion]

Because people can't use them right

[slow marsh]

If you're 2-3 items from bis them your droptimizer will tell you

[balmy condor]

^

[limber lion]

Like, just sim your shit

[balmy condor]

also you would need to use droptimizer to begin with to know you're 2-3 items from bis

[limber lion]

And don't delete 252/259 items

And you're gucci

[balmy condor]

because how else would you know

[slow marsh]

Literally you can swap ring and kt/nerzhul neck will be bis for you

[spark scaffold]

I do sim my shit, but basicly what iceblades said

[slow marsh]

Yeah so top gear+ droptimizer will tell you what to do

And the difference between those in that example is still only like 20 dps

[balmy condor]

here's a fun experiment

without changing gems or enchants

just gear pieces

if you had every possible drop at 252/259

how many profiles do you think sim within margin of error

[gloomy knoll]

and we don't now??? i got 50% base crit foo

[slow marsh]

We do now

We won't in 9.2

[oak sky]

a lot

[spark scaffold]

I'd think 2

[slow marsh]

Kekw

[limber lion]

2?

[slow marsh]

Actual 2

[limber lion]

Oh boy

[obtuse robin]

my brain hurts

[slow marsh]

He forgot the 0

[gloomy knoll]

more than 1

[limber lion]

Every single ring/neck/armor combo

And you say 2

[strange python]

Bahahahahahah

[oak sky]

its definitely like 20

if not way more

[spark scaffold]

I did want to say 20

[oak sky]

because of how many combos there are

[spark scaffold]

Just mistyped

[slow marsh]

Nice try Mr

[spark scaffold]

At least the ring neck combos are like 6

[limber lion]

Listen

[balmy condor]

at least 6

[limber lion]

He said every single gear drop

[strange python]

Hahahahaha pls don’t grt salty

[limber lion]

Not just rings/necks

Think about it

[balmy condor]

no no, he's correct

it is at least 6

every ant hill has at least 6 ants

[limber lion]

Every single armor/jewellery from m+ AND raid

[slow marsh]

Well

Dom slot exists

[obtuse robin]

yo im dead

[slow marsh]

So

[oak sky]

i lied its at least hundreds

🙂

if margin of error is like 15 dps or so

[limber lion]

It's like 5dps

[spark scaffold]

There are items that are locked anyway

[slow marsh]

It's .01-.02%

[balmy condor]

usual margin is 5-7

dps

[slow marsh]

Damn

That's a thin margin

[balmy condor]

0.05%

[limber lion]

Good one icyboy

[slow marsh]

Yo it's almost 2am I'm just here for the memes

[spark scaffold]

Is there any way to get an exact number?

[slow marsh]

Does it matter

[limber lion]

What do you mean by that?

Exact number of what?

[obtuse robin]

nah this guy is a master trol dont get baited

[balmy condor]

an exact number? no

[spark scaffold]

Top gearsets

[slow marsh]

100 dps isn't going to get you rank 1

[limber lion]

Huh

[slow marsh]

Let alone 5-7

[gloomy knoll]

so i was right

it was more than 1

[spark scaffold]

Not saying it will, just curious

[slow marsh]

This man is a genius

[balmy condor]

it's definitely closer to 100 than it is to 1

especially if you min-max for gems

[thin trout]

why not buff 2set to bleeds ans poisons =[

[balmy condor]

start min-maxing for gems and you can get a shit ton of combinations that sim at the same dps on the dot

[slow marsh]

Cuz then it'd be good

[thin trout]

stoopid bleeds

[slow marsh]

I cant

[balmy condor]

[obtuse robin]

lmao

[slow marsh]

I can't even bring myself to type it

[obtuse robin]

yea go kyrian and play outlaw im down

[balmy condor]

stand trial

for your crimes

[slow marsh]

I was gonna meme with some stupid troll shit

But I couldn't I chickened out

But for real rip Necro

The dream is actually dead

[limber lion]

Toxic Onslaught gamers rise up

[obtuse robin]

[slow marsh]

Let the record show that Cev is now the NF sin gamer

[misty holly]

Is Cev coming back for 2 legendaries?

[balmy condor]

you can't have cev, he's mine

my finnish king

he doesn't know

nobody tell him

[slow marsh]

HE JUST WOKE UP

[late birch]

yo

i actually just woke up

message already deleted

fill me in?

[balmy condor]

[limber lion]

I'll definitely play the game some, but not as much as I used to

[balmy condor]

set bonus on sin is doggers

[slow marsh]

We are maybe ok but not cuz tier

[late birch]

WAIT WHAT?!

[obtuse robin]

dam method will fail without you 😦

[slow marsh]

Dusk will maybe save us

[limber lion]

Nah they'll do fine, they got Speed

[balmy condor]

cocaine

[slow marsh]

Yo have you ever done speed

[obtuse robin]

everytime i watch speed he plays monk

[slow marsh]

I can't imagine a whole guild on speed

Makes sense for rwf tho

[limber lion]

That's how you slam your head against raid bosses for 18 hours straight

[slow marsh]

I'm climbing the ladder and Im wondering how far I can go

[limber lion]

Good luck out there

Make us proud

[slow marsh]

I want to be just like you

Minus the retiring

Ofc

[limber lion]

Whatchu doing in here then

Go practice

[obtuse robin]

coping

[slow marsh]

It's 2am I'm in bed crying about sin tier set and how I'll have to play outlaw unless they change it

[limber lion]

Grinding the raid on heroic hundreds of times

[limber lion]

[slow marsh]

But really I'm jumping from 2.2k Andy to 1.1 guild

[limber lion]

That's good

[slow marsh]

I can for sure get into 500

[limber lion]

Just keep grinding and shooting high

You'll get there

[slow marsh]

But it'll be schedule stuff mostly I think

[silver fog]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/assassination-rogue

[dawn ivy]

the moment i got into a good guild, cev retired

[slow marsh]

Ye

After cev retired I lost all motivation

Then I watched whispyr stream trackmania and got inspired again

[obtuse robin]

lol

[late birch]

so can anyone tell me whats wrong with assa tier set?

[balmy condor]

bleeds do no damage

[slow marsh]

It's just not good

[balmy condor]

adding 25% crit on 40% uptime isn't good

exsang on vendetta isn't great either

bleeds are like 15% of our damage

[late birch]

I see, I remember in 8.3 it was out best build lol

[slow marsh]

We play around shiv and envenom currently and they are building around bleeds. It just doesn't work currently

[balmy condor]

#assassination message

[slow marsh]

Yeah that's the problem

Too many people talking nonstop about 8.3 all xpac and now they assume that's what we want again

[balmy condor]

oh #assassination message

I commented on that too

[slow marsh]

But we don't have a billion haste and Shrouded suff to make it work

[gaunt halo]

Faster bleeds sounds nice for more energy. But during vendetta you have enough energy anyway

[thin trout]

wait are we losing our domination set in 9.2? :"(

MAH CRITS

[balmy condor]

yes

[thin trout]

noooo

omg then our set sucks so much

[slow marsh]

And our spot at the top with them

[late birch]

https://tenor.com/view/pepe-why-pepe-pepehands-crying-gif-12683546

[thin trout]

like what am i supposed to feel

[gloomy knoll]

wait

[slow marsh]

Sadness

[gaunt halo]

It's still ptr so might be subject to change. Although I can't really see them go back on their initially idea completly

[viral locust]

Re-roll Boomkin until Venthyr gets nerfed, ez clap.

[dense kiln]

Take into consideration this is just the start of ptr and could change when tested

[slow marsh]

But turn that sadness into action and maybe we get retuned in ptr

[gloomy knoll]

yea sin might just suck

lol

they should add bleeds tick faster and also do more dam to the 4 pc

then it'd be super pog

[thin trout]

maybe bleeds and poisons

[slow marsh]

Idk I think if enough people yell at them that their idea is shit and that they need to rework it then maybe they will finally change it after 2 years

[gloomy knoll]

we'll get a change halfway through farm

6 months into the tier

[thin trout]

i'm just gonna make an alt just in case

doesnt seem good

[gaunt halo]

They will probably adjust numbers, but usually they tend to stick with their initial design

[slow marsh]

Yeah well

Their initial design is yet another example of how nobody on the dev team plays rogue

[gaunt halo]

I just say one thing to that: soothe on dmg cd

[slow marsh]

Lmao

Ok I have to stop it's making me want to rage tweet

[dense kiln]

With the sin tier set would it buff doom blade ? And would we see crimson tempest as st talent

[gaunt halo]

We don't really know about doom blade yet, but I think most people expect it to be affected

[dawn ivy]

doomblade would more than likely be affects

it already is "classified" as a bleed for the first half of doomblade

[gaunt halo]

And with ct i'm not sure. You'll be renewing bleeds a lot with the 4 set bonus anyway even without ct

[dawn ivy]

so i wouldnt be surprised its counted as a bleed for this effect

[limber lion]

CT will not be worth it

Don't worry

[gloomy knoll]

ct was basically a 0% loss in nathria

to take in st

i'd honestly be amazed if it wasn't worth it

[gaunt halo]

Keep in mind that the dmg per cp of the bleeds don't really increase if they tick faster. It just helps to get more dmg in the vendetta window

[cobalt pelican]

dmg per cp does increase if they tick faster though, it's just moved to the end of the fight

[limber lion]

That's not true

[gloomy knoll]

iirc ct was like 40 dps less than pb for me

in nathria

[cobalt pelican]

maybe in a very literal sense it doesn't increase but

[gloomy knoll]

and i'd assume the tier set would just make it even / better

[cobalt pelican]

kinda pointless to measure in that way unless you only spend cps once in an entire fight

[limber lion]

Was definitely more than that

Doomblade/Dashing don't really allow for CT

Especially Dashing

[gloomy knoll]

dusk might though

[gaunt halo]

What i meant is: if i have 5cp during vendetta. I can cast either ct or envenom. And currently envenom is worth more than ct. The set bonus doesn't really change this. Ct just ticks faster it doesn't deal more dmg

[gloomy knoll]

has no envenom interaction

[limber lion]

We only started using CT with like 60% haste back in 8.3

Like at some point it's +-0

But for it to be a gain it takes a bit

Like no reason to ever play CT on st encounters if it's ahead by 2dps

[gloomy knoll]

fair

[limber lion]

Only if it's ahead by a fair bit

[gloomy knoll]

but 33% uptime on vendetta juicing it, and shiv juicing it might make it decent

[cobalt pelican]

it was even more than 60% as well as supporting talents actually being playable

[limber lion]

Yeh could be, but who knows

[cobalt pelican]

v different to current

[gloomy knoll]

especially with 0 envenom interactions on leggos

[limber lion]

Whispyr said the tier set is likr 1.5% increase

So not giga

Also Envenom was bugged for the majority of CN

[cobalt pelican]

it's pretty rough to measure based on current sets that are very stat-warped and playing stuff like ma blindside

but it seems less good than i initially thought

i'm not sure, it's hard to tell

[limber lion]

It's not great

But time will tell

[gloomy knoll]

definitely doesn't seem busted or op by any means

and we lose a lot from losing frost

so who knows might need some love

[limber lion]

We'll do less damage in 9.2 than now

[gloomy knoll]

xD

[gaunt halo]

It's also completly st, while others are getting a nice bonus for aoe. That might actually make the m+ situation worse

[gloomy knoll]

yea it doesn't really help M+ at all

sin in M+ will be pretty bad comparatively next tier

[gaunt halo]

Meanwhile sub which is already strong in m+ gets 5 target shadowstrikes

[late birch]

so its settled, if assa doesnt get better in 9.2 we all rerolling enhance?

[limber lion]

Have fun

"doesn't get better" implying that we're bad currently

[kind talon]

why would u reroll enhance bro

[late birch]

relating it to the theorycrafting done for 9.2

[gaunt halo]

This tier was pretty good for eogues. All 3 specs were somewhat viable

[balmy condor]

"somewhat viable"

literally all 3 specs in the top 5

[gaunt halo]

Wasn't sure about outlaw 😄

But yeah even in m+ i'd say all 3 are viable although sub is quite ahead

[balmy condor]

outlaw is better than sub in some dungeons

[bronze pike]

TOP for example

[vestal wren]

the seasonal affix will also have impact on whats the prefered choice

[balmy condor]

plaguefall

spires

[bronze pike]

Cause add placement

[gloomy knoll]

last 2 affixes were meh

hopefully something better

[balmy condor]

prideful was okay

[gloomy knoll]

prideful was god awful

[balmy condor]

this one has been pretty underwhelming

[gloomy knoll]

the best strat was to not do it

and it forced you into doing the exact same route over and over

cuz 20% spawns and u wipe

if you pulling mobs

[balmy condor]

yeh but it changed routes

you run the same routes over and over right now as well

[gloomy knoll]

pretty much cuz you just go get buffs > clear dungeon

i want something like bfa season 4

[balmy condor]

and the best strat is to skip ice boy pretty much every time

[gloomy knoll]

where it enables you to do cool stuff

[balmy condor]

so whats the difference

you just walk past it now

[gloomy knoll]

there isn't much tbh

prideful was shit and this season is like

a slightly better pridefull

basically the same thing

where as bfa s4 was like hey use these cool portals to do w/e route you can possibly imagine also if you don't do them you fight them with the last boss

which was actually challenging / fun

[gaunt halo]

I think prideful put aome unnecessary pressure on tanks in the lower keys

[limber lion]

Bring back Reaping

[gloomy knoll]

and reaping was just mongo aoe which is also fun

big aoe big dam

[limber lion]

Reaping did nothing else but slow you down

But at least it was fun

Like you gained nothing from it

[gloomy knoll]

yea

it's just big aoe big dam ok that was fun lets keep goin

[bronze pike]

People always did the last boss with spider mini boss in 8.3

Didn’t like that at all lol

[gloomy knoll]

there were tons of keys where i did

blob + spider

or fear guy + blob / spider

like kings rest last boss with blob + spider

that shit was nuts

underrot last boss with 2 guys was nuts

compared to oh you just move slower on last boss now

if you don't do frost

[cobalt pelican]

went to find a log to do some science and

only 1 log loaded on my screen with no externals from guardian

unlkuckky

[limber lion]

Yes, fun game.

Hopefully double leggos/tier sets cause every single kyrian druid to swap covenants

Can deal with PI and whatnot, but KA is too much

[gloomy knoll]

A 1.5k Dps external is fine totally not game breaking at all

As ion said it’s a skill issue just play better 1.5k Dps isn’t that much

[limber lion]

Buuuuut then again we're getting rid of frost dom shards next tier

So it's gonna be a lot less valuable

But still probably bonkers

[gloomy knoll]

Thankfully

Probably at least 800 Dps still

Or around there

[cobalt pelican]

crits in pve in this game are still 200% right

i'm not a mega boomer

[gloomy knoll]

Yuh

[thin imp]

how is the tier set for rogue looking?

[slow marsh]

Kyrian guardian is supposed to be looking really nice right now

[dry void]

its meh

[slow marsh]

It's poop tell your friends

[balmy condor]

sin is disappointing
sub has the potential to interact with a bunch of stuff and go sicko mode
outlaw is okay

[agile osprey]

Sad 😦

[thin imp]

we are getting rid of gem sets in favour of gear set in 9.2 or do we keep both?

[balmy condor]

domination shards are bye bye

[thin imp]

buh )=

the set sounds way more weaker than the shards

[gaunt halo]

1/5th of dps just gone

[balmy condor]

I mean based on some initial math, the sin tier is probably a 1/3rd as strong

[agile osprey]

Gotta remember we get double leggo tho

[gaunt halo]

That applies to most sets though i assume

[limber lion]

We'll barely do more dps in 9.2 compared to current iteration

[unkempt drift]

surely zoldyk + deathspike is big aoe 😩

[limber lion]

Slightly more ilvl, but giga shards/daggers gone

[balmy condor]

willingly playing deathspike though

[gaunt halo]

Big aoe and sin rogue just don't go together

[unkempt drift]

diagnosed schizophrenics stand up

[limber lion]

Too bad double lego isn't exactly as groundbreaking and exciting for us than it is for some specs

[unkempt drift]

deathspike is fun fr

[limber lion]

We don't really get any over the top op combinations

[shrewd iron]

is it exsanguinate time in 9.2?

[limber lion]

No

[agile osprey]

So I feel like sub really might be the move....

[shrewd iron]

[balmy condor]

probably even worse of a talent than it is now

and that's saying something

[shrewd iron]

f

i got my hopes up

[balmy condor]

on the plus side though

it's already the worst talent on the tree

so the only way is up

[limber lion]

Imagine the nightstalker garrote vend exsang burst

[balmy condor]

I'm imagining

[cobalt pelican]

is the nightstalker buig still in the game

with tomes

[gaunt halo]

Yeah but all that overcapped energy

[balmy condor]

the wat

[cobalt pelican]

idr the specifics but it was an 8.3 thing

if you tomed in stealth unstealthed restealthed with ns you would keep it or some shit

[balmy condor]

that's what sub does on prepull atm

I don't think that works for sin

[cobalt pelican]

don't think sub existed when people were last abusing it besides like 2 guys

[agile osprey]

SUB HAS TO TOME PREPULL?? WHAT AM I RICH?

[slow marsh]

Maybe if they fix garrote applying poison (unless they already have which I doubt) then NS garrote opener is niceish

[cobalt pelican]

sub gets it through dance atm right

[gloomy knoll]

Yea

[balmy condor]

doesn't have to, but the full cheese involves tome into nightstalker mfd dark shadow, ye

[limber lion]

Why would that matter tbh

[gloomy knoll]

Problem is sin likes vanish so

Dust mfd doesn’t really help much lol

[cobalt pelican]

you didn't have to vanish

[limber lion]

Melee hits apply poison, we chillin

[gaunt halo]

Seems like a lot of effort for a little opener dmg

[cobalt pelican]

it was just a stealth/restealth thing

[slow marsh]

Cuz NS would snap garrote and deadly for vendetta right?

[cobalt pelican]

i need to dig up how this used to work

[balmy condor]

yeh

[cobalt pelican]

cause my brain is not what it used to be

[balmy condor]

I don't think the NS thing is still a thing though

[limber lion]

Deadly doesn't work like that

[balmy condor]

but idk

maybe some ancient jank

still exists

it's wow after all

[limber lion]

Deadly gets constantly re-applied

So even if it did snapshot, it would get overlapped immediately

[slow marsh]

It did work like that unless whisp lied to me

[limber lion]

Ye if you hit the target once

And then stop

Sure

Just like using a normal garrote on top of a subt garrote

It'll overlap

[slow marsh]

Na I think the dot snaps fam

[limber lion]

Wat

You do realize we are constantly reapplying deadly

Not once

Ecery 12s or whatever

[slow marsh]

Well then whisp is a liar

[limber lion]

Like legit multiple times a second

[slow marsh]

Take it up with him

[limber lion]

I don't buy it.

[slow marsh]

Cuz when I was doing my troll ass MA NS MfD CT m+ stuff

[agile osprey]

Any word on whether or not our raid gear will actually be useful in m+ again?

[slow marsh]

He gave me the low down

[limber lion]

Raid Gear willl always be useful in m+

[agile osprey]

you know what I mean

[limber lion]

Especially when it's the main place to get tier sets from

[limber lion]

I really don't

Raid gear and m+ gear is gear all the same

Nothing is different

[slow marsh]

That NS snapped deadly so opening with fan from stealth on multi target was about equal to CT

[limber lion]

We don't know of any op trinkets/unique effects yet

[agile osprey]

Will we get the set bonus in mythic plus, unlike domination shards where the bonus only applied to the raid and the maw.....?

[limber lion]

@balmy condor

[limber lion]

Yes

It is active everywhere

[gaunt halo]

But sets will also be available through m+

[balmy condor]

yeah

[agile osprey]

Ohhh

[limber lion]

It is not "raid gear"

It's available from multiple sources

[balmy condor]

NS buffs the application of DP from stealth as well

[limber lion]

There is no raid-specific stuff

[slow marsh]

Take that you sexy beast

[balmy condor]

you would just reapply the dot instantly afterwards though

[limber lion]

Sure but doesn't extra applications overlap the ns buffed dot

[balmy condor]

so

[limber lion]

Yeah

Get fucked

@slow marsh

[slow marsh]

Ok

I feel like I got played here

[limber lion]

I mean I did constantly say

That DP does snapshot

[slow marsh]

Well maybe I was distracted by your obnoxiously handsome Prof pic

[limber lion]

But it just gets overwritten

[limber lion]

What happened to your blades

What's this spiderman thing about

[slow marsh]

I got tired of them

[limber lion]

Fair

[slow marsh]

And oxi wanted me to go back to my peter Parker pic

So I met him halfway

[limber lion]

I'm pondering whether or not to launch the game

For old times sake

[balmy condor]

1v1 rust?

[limber lion]

Do a key or something

[limber lion]

My quickscope skills are a bit rusty, how about 1v1 chess?

[balmy condor]

I mean I'm actual dogshit chess

but I'm down

[slow marsh]

There since you asjed

[balmy condor]

chess.com?

[slow marsh]

Asked

[limber lion]

Good me too

Sure

[golden basalt]

so sin set will kinda just strongarm us into doomblade?

[gloomy knoll]

Duskwalker

[snow forge]

Any big brain ideas about 4set + exsang?

[golden basalt]

exsang prob even more dead now

[snow forge]

I just want kingsbane back

[teal bloom]

Isn't that 4set "apply a better version of exsang" KEKW

Vendetta applies*

[snow forge]

But we could exsang while we exsang

[golden basalt]

"BUT without losing alacrity"

[amber quail]

Exs as skill not talent you mean

Think about “ALL DOTS are affected by EXS”

[winter plinth]

Gimme 4 set exang and old SBS plz

[amber quail]

My sin set steam have: EXs skill with talent that work on all targets + CT talent that spread all dot onto main to all + MA lego + NS 😋

[sterile chasm]

This set is so bad

[limber lion]

Oh the broken version where you could literally cause the entire Blizzard server to crash after using Exsanguinate on a target too many times?

Yeh, they should bring it back

[winter plinth]

Yeah, but you'd be able to do it quicker!

[gaunt halo]

Just upgrade servers. Easy

[limber lion]

Just make Exsang and CT baseline and rework the entire talent tree

easy

[golden basalt]

YEA

easy

[deep dagger]

9.2 sets

Gonna be exciting to see how 4set and Exang works

[golden basalt]

200% faster

[deep dagger]

Did someone say

Burst window ?

Real question is, will we even be able to actually play with 200% faster lol

[ebon thorn]

add another 0 to the tiny toxin blade

[celest ruin]

5 piece set should be expedient 3

[golden basalt]

different openers are not necessarily bad

[dawn ivy]

sim yourself for stats and check out the opener it tells you to run

[limber lion]

What makes you think it's 200%

[gaunt halo]

I think the main thing with openers is that you want to get ~27 stacks of flagellation

[limber lion]

and not 100%^2

[dawn ivy]

so....

[golden basalt]

hmmmmmmm

[dawn ivy]

400%?

[golden basalt]

interesting

[dawn ivy]

good god

[limber lion]

1000%

[golden basalt]

400 kekw

[deep dagger]

Have we ever had any multiplicative stacking things in WoW?

[dawn ivy]

did you say 10000%?

[golden basalt]

yes

[limber lion]

Anyways, it's probably bad

[deep dagger]

Like what? I legit can't remember

[limber lion]

Don't get your fannies twisted

[golden basalt]

its already twisted

you did this, cev

[dawn ivy]

it will be a funny thing to try out for everyone on a target dummy

[limber lion]

It is currently the worst talent in the entire tree

[dawn ivy]

but yeah it wont be worth it

[limber lion]

So

Gonna take a lot to make it good

[celest ruin]

press vendetta, all your bleeds are gone after 1 second

[oak sky]

And alacrity is the best

[balmy condor]

you realize everything stacks multiplicatively in wow right?

[gaunt halo]

There might be some super niche applications like first boss mists or 3rd boss soa. But even then it's not worth taking exsang for the whole run

[golden basalt]

no

exsang is dead

[balmy condor]

if envenom does 100 damage, and crits, inside of vendetta and shiv(we'll say 30% shiv), it's not 100 * (1+1+ 0.3+ 0.3)

its 100 * 2 * 1.3 * 1.3

thats why stacking cooldowns is good

[potent dagger]

Hi guys , what's up ? i'm thinking to get back in game after two month of inactivity ? beside the removal of target cap , anything new to check for rogues ? Balance between spec is still the same basicaly ?

[golden basalt]

balance is good currently

sub has a lot of degenerate prepull shit if youre into that

[potent dagger]

Nah bug exploiting is not my stuff ^^

so nothing new ^^

thanks for the info

[whole mason]

this one maybe needs some revision, lol

[balmy condor]

?

[whole mason]

to (1+1+.3+.3)

(2+1.3+1.3) is actually bigger than *2 *1.3 *1.3

[balmy condor]

Oh

I get you

The point comes across though

[whole mason]

in case people take it literally

[balmy condor]

Yeh

Changed it

[quaint sequoia]

Well the 4set suck for us who don't like exsang gameplay 🙃

[limber lion]

[warm parcel]

Whats 25% critical strike tho

Blizz and wording

[balmy condor]

Shiv forces your bleeds to 25% crit during shiv

It’s a loss

[slim wagon]

the 4set makes sepsis run out faster thus giving the 12sec buff while vendetta is still running though ^^

[balmy condor]

Thinking it’ll work with sepsis

[warm parcel]

[balmy condor]

Get me in touch with your drug dealer

I’ll have what he’s having

[warm parcel]

Thinking it will work*

[balmy condor]

That’s what I said

[drifting cloud]

you forgot the secret game passive, if you happen to be bad and your shiv gets parried your set bonus doesnt work now

[warm parcel]

At all my man

[balmy condor]

Oh

[warm parcel]

Bad joke

[balmy condor]

I wasn’t that far in the dumps yet

[warm parcel]

Maybe set isnt tied to parry

Could be it only needs cast like ep

[whole mason]

4p should work just like exsanguinate, right? one time only thing

[warm parcel]

Reads like it yes

[grand ridge]

it does seem that refreshing dots unlike exsanguinate will allow the dots to still tick faster

exsanguinate only affects your current ones

[whole mason]

well, with exsanguinate, two set effects get everything done in 9sec and extra 25% crit?

[grand ridge]

as long as vendetta is up

[warm parcel]

Again blizz and tooltips. Could be anything

Gotta get to test

Would be nicer for sure tho

[drifting cloud]

if it only exsangs wouldnt that be so garbage

[limber lion]

Definitely nothing too giga

Faster damage on bleeds, more energy

That's it

[dawn ivy]

whats the alternative

i think whispyr tried to explain it

but whats the difference between the two?

[limber lion]

Could have been anything

Between the 4p and Exsang itself?

[dawn ivy]

yeah theyve talked about the exact details of the 4pc

[limber lion]

There's nothing different about the two, except one is tied to Vendetta and the other one is a talent

The 4p is tied to Vendetta cd, the Exsang talent is a 45s cd

[dawn ivy]

yeahyeah

[grim hornet]

but

[limber lion]

It's legit copy paste

[grim hornet]

if im in vendetta and then i use rupture, does that new rupture also tick x2?

[spice spire]

There’s only one hopium I’m on rn