assassination

[timid cloud]

But m'uh duelist buff...

M'uh haste...

[quasi grotto]

whats wrong with nadj?

oh PINS

[slow marsh]

theo was already better than nadj

idk why you feel baited

[quasi grotto]

was only like 4 dps increase for me at the time

but finally got it simming over 50 for me so swapping now

[slow marsh]

if you sim theo with reroll crit/haste then it beats nadj almost every time unless you're using obed and dont have much crit

[quasi grotto]

but was questioning is that dps depend on getting crit tea time?

gotta re roll before raid basically then log >

?

[slow marsh]

yeah you can reroll every hour

then log out after you land on whatever yuou want

which should be crit but haste is solid too

vers and agi are both under the topgear theo sim by a bit

[strange python]

so reroll if your on agi?

[slow marsh]

agi or vers yeah

[timid cloud]

Why is Agi bad for us, I'm really bad at math, I was always just curious, since Agi if we have like 1.6k agi would be like...50ish right? That's a fair amount, is it not? Need me one of them mathy boys.

[slow marsh]

50 agi or 3% flat crit / haste

[deep solstice]

I think it's not so much that agi is bad, but more that more agi doesnt really scale Winds of Winter much, whereas haste and crit do

[slow marsh]

the agi is good if you use UH but nobody does that now

[deep solstice]

My question is why so few people play the MFD build. Sims like 100 dps higher than vigor for me

[timid cloud]

It's still only like a 50 or less for me on my sims, at least.

It feels so bad without a fair amount of haste or outside of Flag for me, at least personally.

[deep solstice]

Nadija also sims 10 dps behind for me, regardless of talents. Maybe it's an itemization thing?

[spice spire]

it is

an itemization thing

[viscid spear]

Update about the campaign quest: if you switch covs while on a quest it drops it, but you pick up where you left off and just need to go pick it up.

It also binds you to the first soulbind so you have to switch it if you don't use that one.

[uneven hamlet]

My guess is ep vig is so good that ppl don't mind to change it to MFD

[spice spire]

new tech + people like to keep it simple on prog specifically. also it only sims higher if you're venthyr

[slow marsh]

It's the same reason as why people started using ep / vig in the first place

they don't care what sims higher they want what feels better

[golden basalt]

BS feels imo a lot better than ep

[uneven hamlet]

Mfd has a kind of learning curve too

[golden basalt]

but ive kinda defaulted into ep since its just there

[limber lion]

I mean it is an extra button to press

EP doesn't do anything

But anyone thinking about MfD; give it a shot.

It's honestly pretty fun and only pretty aids on super heavy aoe encounters

[slow marsh]

heavy aoe is where it shines the most if you can handle it

[limber lion]

Technically yes

But most people tend to only concentrate on the MfD portion and then they play worse overall

[slow marsh]

true

[limber lion]

Trying to snipe stuff

The Eye is a perfect MfD fight.

[slow marsh]

similar to sbs sin though

pain is perfect mfd

too

[limber lion]

For sure but SbS is definitely easier than MfD.

You throw SBS on everything instead of the target that dies the soonest

[brazen zodiac]

is that how you'd play sbs in st? just throw that shit off cd?

[gusty mirage]

can confirm

[golden basalt]

as sin you throw it instead of mut in opener

and then not to cap on sbs stacks

[gusty mirage]

if I go out of my way to snipe mfd resets

[limber lion]

You want to throw SBS on everything

[gusty mirage]

I end up just just going straight stupid

[brazen zodiac]

really? ok

[limber lion]

You want the dot on as many targets as possible.

[brazen zodiac]

okay

[limber lion]

Prioritizing mobs that die sooner than later

[brazen zodiac]

so its just kinda another fun bleed to keep up ig

[gusty mirage]

@limber lion when your soulbind is broken and you have a sale in 40 minutes

[limber lion]

Sure

[brazen zodiac]

lmfao

[limber lion]

just go tea boy

[gusty mirage]

I know I should

but fatal flaw 😦

BLIZZARD PLEASE

I'm actually getting griefed

[limber lion]

kinda weird bugs ngl

[gusty mirage]

rimefrost doesn't work, I'm getting vers instead of crit

[deep solstice]

I've been playing MFD with dashing, been fun. Had not tried it with obediance yet....plan to for KT tonight

[limber lion]

Dashing MfD is great.

I got like 4 r1's the first reclear I did with it

[deep solstice]

Ya it pumps pretty well

Kinda dislike that nadija sims a bit ahead with obe tho. She feels so much more RNG

[brazen zodiac]

i dont remember if i read correctly but did someone say itd be a pretty huge loss to use nadija with the bug?

[deep solstice]

Oh ya, is she giving Vers for sin as well, or was that just for outlaw?

[gusty mirage]

probably not a huge loss, but theo triple potency probably gaps it by quite a bit now

[brazen zodiac]

its in the pin, ye

[gusty mirage]

because 20% vers is still a good chunk of damage

[brazen zodiac]

how much is the gap?

kinda relative but estimate if ya can

[limber lion]

who knows

[brazen zodiac]

hm okie

[deep solstice]

Ah cool. So I dont have to play nadija. I am happy with that.

[limber lion]

it's not really possible to sim without apl implements for us filthy casuals

[brazen zodiac]

yeah i was thinking thatd be the case

[limber lion]

and really varies profile-by-profile

[brazen zodiac]

mhm

okie dokie

[limber lion]

idk if the bugs are implemented or not, do you know? @gusty mirage

[gusty mirage]

I'm checking right now

[brazen zodiac]

thank u

[gusty mirage]

but tbh I could probably sim it w/ fatal picking vers

and see

[limber lion]

Yeh go for it

[deep solstice]

I think flaw was only adding like 300ish dps anyway right? so it shouldnt be too massive a loss if it's vers instead

[slow marsh]

it is

@gusty mirage just gonna have to live with theo for a bit

[deep solstice]

simming draven for the memes

[brazen zodiac]

thats cope

[golden basalt]

possible to sim with death at the end for extra burst hehe

?

[limber lion]

draven bad

never pick draven

[golden basalt]

well yea

[deep solstice]

lol ya. My sim did say that playing obe with theotar is throwing tho

(that's dashing)

wtb crit tea tonight tho.

[strange python]

hello guys 1 question

[limber lion]

Hello

[strange python]

When do we use the guardian trinket? always aligned with flag?

[limber lion]

No

You use it on cooldown

As much as possible

[strange python]

oho

[limber lion]

It always deals full damage as long as you get full value out of it.

And stay glued on a target.

[deep solstice]

It doesnt scale with the haste/vers part of flag?

[strange python]

okay

thank you so much @limber lion

[limber lion]

No worries :)

[strange python]

I get a little bit crazy when I press it and sylv on myth does veil

it's like... heartbreaking

[limber lion]

I mean you can hold it before a veil

That's completely fine

[deep solstice]

get you some raid timers

[limber lion]

Does, but you should be pressing it on cooldown regardless to ensure you don't miss casts.

[strange python]

I got them but sometimes I miss them cause i'm silly 😛

[limber lion]

It's all gucci

Live and learn

[deep solstice]

Ya I guess it would be a minor optimization to align it with the buff part if you wont lose a cast then

[limber lion]

Very minor.

[deep solstice]

ya

[limber lion]

I would just use it right away in the opener

And on cd as much as possible after that

[strange python]

yeah I do and more or less almost press it on cd now

but phial did more damage (246)

[limber lion]

yeh, don't think about it too much

[strange python]

not so much tho but enough

[deep solstice]

If playing nadija it might line up with euphoria/flaw more often if you delay it? I'd have to look into that

[brazen zodiac]

mfd sounds fun on kt if youre up stairs or maybe im wrong

[limber lion]

Sure but we don't really play around Thrill Seeker.

But yeah same rules apply to everything pretty much

[balmy condor]

0.3%

[deep solstice]

Well, fuu posts stuff about 0.1% dps gains, so worth considering xD

[limber lion]

Feel free to hold to get more value as long as you don't miss out on casts.

Yeah I mean, dps increase is a dps increase

But so is playing better

And hitting the boss more

[balmy condor]

that's cause every fucker asks the same question 90 million times so it has to be addressed more than "this is an actual gain" btw

[limber lion]

And having better gear

And a better fight length

And more supporting abilities from your team

[strange python]

is that even normal? I mean 246 phial > amplifier?

[deep solstice]

Control what you can control. Feels better to at least know what is optimal so you know how to improve your play

[balmy condor]

the amount of "when do we symbols" is crazy

[limber lion]

Yeh for sure

[strange python]

on a mm sylv kill

[limber lion]

Completely fine

[strange python]

damn that trinket is broken man... xd

never got a max version on vault

sadge

[limber lion]

Me neither big guy

You and me buddy

[strange python]

hahaha are we the only ones?

[deep solstice]

I got a phial, but guardian trinket doesnt wanna drop.

[limber lion]

Nah, there's plenty of people who still don't have it.

[balmy condor]

same

[strange python]

I'm sure the last week before 9.2 hits I'll get it

for sure

[balmy condor]

guardian doesn't exist

[drifting cloud]

if you did 220k with it on a 14min sylv kill

youre using it wrong

[limber lion]

People mostly just don't care enough to grind m+ weekly though

[deep solstice]

/sad

[strange python]

I miss 1 cast I guess on interphase

[drifting cloud]

it has rng but mine did 335k today

[strange python]

lolwut

did you use it on adds?

[limber lion]

Ryler is a tryhard

[strange python]

what was your sylv ST damage?

[drifting cloud]

what, overall?

[strange python]

no, not overall, just on sylv

[drifting cloud]

6mil

[strange python]

maybe you used it during adds or smth, I mean...

[drifting cloud]

I did but it still did 260k on sylv

[odd heath]

hey @balmy condor, do you know how can I sim the paladin's Night fae external with the covenant legendary? I'm using external_buffs.blessing_of_summer=5, but it doesnt apply the legendary portion of the spell (equinox). I tried some variations after the external buffs, but it didnt work out

[strange python]

I'll try to check next week

[drifting cloud]

well just check other logs everyone runs it

[strange python]

maybe I'm doing smth wrong, I'll use the flag + amplifier on cd

[limber lion]

Ryler is a bully

Don't listen to him

[strange python]

ahhaah

[balmy condor]

can't sim with the legendary

[strange python]

he made me sad

[drifting cloud]

I mean sample size of 1 is pretty pointless

[odd heath]

damn =/

[balmy condor]

the damage goes to the paladin anyway

so it's not some secret parse tech

[drifting cloud]

and the trinket is dumb anyways with rng procs

but its just that good regardless

[balmy condor]

let the paladins figure out the damage I guess

[limber lion]

This was Ryler's damage with it today anyways

The 330k was from 4 days ago

[odd heath]

its more of a research tbh, but thx for the info

[balmy condor]

yeah for sure

[limber lion]

np

[drifting cloud]

oh I just had a log opened in tab didnt notice it wasnt from today

[strange python]

gotcha

I did smth wrong but not so so wrong

I'll try my best on next

ty all guys 😄

[drifting cloud]

I guess it highrolled 4 days ago

[limber lion]

I mean Ryler just has it macro'd to his Flag

So that's an option if you'd like

[drifting cloud]

yeah I mean I dont see anything wrong with that

[limber lion]

Nothing wrong with it

[drifting cloud]

if im delaying flag its because im not going to lose casts so same goes for trinket?

they both require uptime

[limber lion]

Not maximum efficiency fortnite ultra gamer move

but otherwise fine

[strange python]

hahahaha

[golden basalt]

Macro it with mut

[strange python]

you guys are madmen

[limber lion]

True, but in that particular case you would want to hold the last trinket more

To get more value out of the Flag haste portion

[drifting cloud]

thats too advanced

[limber lion]

A good 4 seconds of extra holding

[strange python]

HHAHAHA

[limber lion]

for that spicy 0.3 extra dps

not 0.3%

[strange python]

0.3 flat

gotcha

[slow marsh]

did someone say we can get +.3 dps ?

[limber lion]

literally 0.3 flat dps

yeh

[slow marsh]

where how

/ scratches neck

[brazen zodiac]

haha

[strange python]

/ spit on wow

/ whistle

[golden basalt]

/ spit on theotar

[strange python]

good night guys

[limber lion]

I miss WoW

[strange python]

thank you for the infos

[gusty mirage]

I miss minecraft with the boys

[limber lion]

good night, have a good one

[drifting cloud]

also dont forget trinket is higher ilvl than vial so it has more agi

[limber lion]

that was fun, didn't have much time to play back then either :(

or well, all of my time went into WoW

and now I'm just out of time

[gusty mirage]

I forgot to cancel the server

[limber lion]

oh shit

[gusty mirage]

so its up for another 3 months

[drifting cloud]

played damn theotar

and I rolled 2x vers and agi tea

should have just gone back to nadja

[slow marsh]

when that happens to me

i go outlaw

xD

[gusty mirage]

just rolled agi tea boys

going to go cry

[slow marsh]

ff

15

[gusty mirage]

if I keep getting griefed like I have this week I'm about to go cut down trees in new world

[slow marsh]

you wont

[frank haven]

Am I wrong for making Zoldyck Insignia for my first leggo if I only plan on doing m+?

[golden basalt]

nope not really

but if you only plan on doing m+ you might wanna reconsider sin

[small basin]

is dungeon slice decent for assa?

or just do patchwerk multi target

[balmy condor]

dungeonslice is good for all rogue specs

[small basin]

ok

damn i sim like 9.8 k lul

rip

[balmy condor]

the number is less important than the actual comparison

[small basin]

alright

my gear is a bit vers heavy because its mostly pvp stuff

[echo geyser]

@balmy condor NF sin omega copium for sin right? m+

[balmy condor]

NF sin is dogshit

forget it exists

[echo geyser]

absolute cooked

i knew it

[balmy condor]

erase it from your consciousness

[chilly marsh]

any change for sin in 9.1.5? for m+?

[balmy condor]

no

[chilly marsh]

good im lazy to cahnge things LOL

[pure moth]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3ZFeKUWzzLZc18DNhivxSi The sim puts a heroic guardian trinket above a 252 shadowgrasp totem now. Did i miss checking something off in the sims? I feel like this shouldnt be the case.

[balmy condor]

no that's pretty normal

[small basin]

roughly how much dps will i get going from r4 to r5 frost set

doomblade

[balmy condor]

300ish

[small basin]

oki

[balmy condor]

should craft a dashing though

[small basin]

i only do the heroic raid once a weel lol

dont mythic raid

[brazen zodiac]

is it normal for emeni to sim higher than other soulbinds? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/dgwyhvr9p8NLLLd7K5vSZv idk shit about necro lul

[normal mist]

How much of an upgrade is a 233 EoN compared to a 239 dagger?

[soft shale]

only on off hand

and not much sadly for assa

[normal mist]

A 233 compared to my 239 off hand was a loss in DPS. A 246 one was a 100dps gain

[drifting cloud]

yeah 233 eon sucks for assa

[normal mist]

I really thought the numbers would be bigger

So damn sad

[timid cloud]

More of a Sub thing.

[soft shale]

sub and outlaw gain a lot from edge even on low ilvl in off hand that is correct

sadly assasination just does not have a lot of cp gain it does damage in other ways

[amber fossil]

hmm, dashing only sims +19 higher than doomblade (frost, necro)

41% crit atm

doesnt seem right, or worth the mats to make it

[subtle tundra]

you got baited by zerocool?

[amber fossil]

no, from this comment

[subtle tundra]

i tried playing zoldyck these 2 days, its goddamn awful
0 dmg at the important times

[pastel shale]

I only run Zoldyck on Sylvanas

[subtle tundra]

any time there's an important mob i do dog damage

just gonna send obedience 24/7

[small basin]

zoldyck that far behind for st?

[balmy condor]

keyword here is necro

[balmy condor]

yes

[subtle tundra]

it is a noticeable amount behind, also you have 0 burst without obe

playing zoldyck is just "trying" to be an overall class

which assa just isnt

having flag very often is also omega good

[small basin]

hm

im necro

maybe making zoldyck was a waste of gold lul

[subtle tundra]

you whatever you want to be, hello? this is 9.1.5

[small basin]

i like playing necro

bonespike is fun

[subtle tundra]

you can play whatever you want my guy

[balmy condor]

I mean honestly with cov swapping and cinder farming these days

if you want to be a single target spec

you just play sub

[subtle tundra]

my perspective is from pushing high m+

[balmy condor]

and get funnel

[subtle tundra]

no thanks

[balmy condor]

like I would personally never play obed sin

cause obed sub is just strictly better for that purpose

[subtle tundra]

it is strictly better

but not by miles

[sudden canyon]

my best sin sims are about 500 dps behind my sub sims. what fight would i want to play sin for?

[balmy condor]

none

[jaunty steeple]

Embers catchup when

mfw stuck with frost set

[sudden canyon]

okay will i started leveling my frost shards to have my sin ready if needed lol

i just got rank 5

[drifting cosmos]

did they increase the ember drop rate at all?

[jaunty steeple]

nope

[balmy condor]

nop

[jaunty steeple]

still 40 for a heroic full clear

10 for the weekly quest

mythic bosses are 1 more each

[drifting cosmos]

that sucks

[echo geyser]

someone came into my stream and said, someone said NF sin is legit for m+

i had big doubts so

just came here and double checked with whispyr

[timid cloud]

No one is doing that.

[charred wraith]

would be cool if we could send them from one char to another, they continue to drop even after every shard is upgraded

[echo geyser]

omega copium NF gamers

[timid cloud]

Yeah, the only way it'd even be remotely close, is if it had some of the Torghast powers.

Even then...

[soft shale]

you can stagger korayn all day and still only do 3k less dps pog

[subtle tundra]

zerocool was specc'd into nf for some reason

hidden m+ omega tech

[soft shale]

maybe if no one is nightfae for mists

[echo geyser]

now with uncap

[subtle tundra]

15k overall, bet all the chinese just dont log

[echo geyser]

u cant even not hit all mobs

so its just once per big pack

unless u chain

[soft shale]

u can not hit my man didnt learn of the side fok

[echo geyser]

with target cap it could extend once or twice maybe

[charred wraith]

lol just outrange 2/3 of the pull size

[echo geyser]

[charred wraith]

then slowly go closer

[soft shale]

we played that shit all patches with sub to get the fw secret tech going

[subtle tundra]

what if i just log off with nf every night and see the dmg

[charred wraith]

ez korayn min max

[soft shale]

and still do less damage than venth kek

[subtle tundra]

make the leggo aswell

[balmy condor]

ban @subtle tundra you know what you did

oh

forgot the !

[soft shale]

shadowblades pog then you rememeer you hare nf

[subtle tundra]

opa

[charred wraith]

speak to me when you have tried

[soft shale]

hey shiv works with sepsis

big damage

1k dot becomes 1.2

[timid cloud]

📝

[charred wraith]

yeah thats math

[timid cloud]

Wouldn't know, I'm bad at it.

[charred wraith]

does deathspike suck for sin?

[timid cloud]

Sucks for all.

[oak sky]

wait, everyone else isnt playing nf sin now?

[charred wraith]

its fin-ish for outlaw if you wanna clown in lower keys

[timid cloud]

Wait, everyone else isn't playing Master Poisoner, Nightstalker, Venom Rush, & Hidden Blade?

Yeah, true, well it is a 4fun legendary.

[oak sky]

i thought that was standard

wtf

my life is a lie

[timid cloud]

What in de name of de loa...

[oak sky]

deathspike is good overall but the single target is really bad @charred wraith

[charred wraith]

yeah sure it gives 0 st

[hollow river]

@gusty mirage finally got a new PB

[mortal summit]

anyone have a macro that will all mutilate to also be ambush if blindside procs?

[gusty mirage]

😮 ?

[strange python]

should i use frost shards if i have 29% crit?

or is that too low

[gusty mirage]

I'd sim the difference between the 3 in top gear

but it's probably still the best even at 29% crit

[amber fossil]

I was around 30% and didn't sim higher until rank 5 frost

[strange python]

yeah

it sims like tiniest bit lower

i normally M+ so was just wondering

trying to get dem daggers

[amber fossil]

for me it finally sim'd higher when I also equiped all high crit gear, even if it was lower ilvl

[oak sky]

!amb

!mut

[prisma monolith]

Ambush is currently only used from blindside/sepsis proc, not from stealth.
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3).
Some other factors to consider are increased poison applications, blindside, and doomblade. This is true for all talent combinations and legendaries.

[oak sky]

!ambush

[prisma monolith]

Macroing Ambush to Mutilate only works with the use of a addon.
It comes with the downside that it often requires multiple key presss.
Suggested addon to use(Gnome Sequencer):http://tiny.cc/mxb6tz
Showcase Video: #assassination message

[oak sky]

@mortal summit ^

[mortal summit]

guys thank you!

WAIT so I dont even ambush like literally ever unless I have blindside proc.....

[oak sky]

yep

[arctic hare]

Welp

Did my first full clear tonight

Well

technically, the rest of the full clear lol

Anyone know the ID for SFA?

so I can put it and test if its better than what I've got?

Got it, nvm

[hollow river]

70% 2nd plat. that decent?

[gusty mirage]

yessir

[hollow river]

boss needs to die man

[spice spire]

Notrickz getting that mental warfare done unto him

[hollow river]

Bro I’m so washed rn

[modest mural]

Is assasination bad for Mythics? I dont want to really do anything past 15's. Everything I have read puts Sub ahead, but I like the playstyle of Assasination better

[oak sky]

assassination is plenty good enough for 15s

[spice spire]

Assassination is good up until the low 20s even. You can definitely still do big dam in a key, but it’s a little harder 😛

[modest mural]

Other than Crimson Tempest, what else would you suggest I change around? I am running DS leggo

[spice spire]

Subterfuge and run either Zoldyck’s or obedience pending what’s needed. But obedience is a solid all around pick

[modest mural]

Thanks guys!

[upbeat needle]

rank 4 tarragrue is me peak

😦

#MakeTarraGiveAllStarPoints

[fallow otter]

Hahaha no

[kind talon]

congrats

[storm belfry]

Nice

[glass tulip]

balancing KT damage sucks bro hooooly

I love holding cds for both down phases :)

[latent stream]

It is what it is

[glass tulip]

it is what it is

[latent stream]

Padding with crimson outside is a wet dream of mine

[glass tulip]

I was originally outside for 2 pulls

then we realized its not even close if I dont go target the remnant

[latent stream]

assa pretty good in there

[glass tulip]

mhm, its been very tough for our group to manage the pools though during the 60-20 phase

lots of downtime, thank god for bleeds lol

[balmy condor]

Gotta stack better

[glass tulip]

Yeah I have 2 people who are not stacking enjoyers

[balmy condor]

Hugs as close as possible to the puddles

And then pray

[glass tulip]

I was thinking of making a WA to track it and bait them in the middle of the platform

like between melee and ranged

[balmy condor]

Probably not great

[glass tulip]

agreed, hence why I am grinding renown and not doing that

[latent stream]

How many melee's are you sending down mate if its that bad

[glass tulip]

3

:)

with a melee healer so 4

[latent stream]

then I cant relate xD

[glass tulip]

How many for you?

[balmy condor]

We sent down 3+1 as well

[latent stream]

We got 3 rogue so whatever rogue is currently in the grp and a holy pala

so 1 rogue and 1 holy pala

[balmy condor]

Dh rogue feral + hpal + boomy + hunter is what we sent

[glass tulip]

ours is almost the same

[latent stream]

and the pala tries to stay away wich is nice

[glass tulip]

DH rogue NF feral + monk + 2 boomy

[latent stream]

but we just yolo it honestly

[nimble tartan]

we do 2 rogue, 1 hpal, 2 boomie, 1 sp or mage

we have a dh come down rq and tag it and port up

[glass tulip]

Yeah I want our dh to go up, hes kind of a maniac in the jar

playing momentum trying to manage puddles

[balmy condor]

Yikes

[latent stream]

haha get him out

get him to tag and dip

[glass tulip]

yeah we'll be rearranging before monday

[latent stream]

Btw I gotta ask has anyone actually gotten a Edge of night in Assa loot spec 😂 , we have a thing going in the guild where it only ever drops in sub

[glass tulip]

I got a singular 233 from vault

havent seen it since week 2

[latent stream]

We got 3 rogues in the guild

ramfam has 3 259s I got 1 and our third rogue does not have any

and he has the most kills on sylv as well

[glass tulip]

I'm our one and only, unfortunately

The other one we had through heroic ended up being garbo

and no more have applied since

[latent stream]

Does the dagger actually have lower drop chance compared to other weapons, cuss Ive gotten the damn remenant dagger countless times

[glass tulip]

🤷

oh another question: do you guys do the regular 4th phase lust on KT?

Some of our players said they saw some guilds doing it in P2 to have a better transition

[latent stream]

Never heard of p2 BL

4th for sure

We even have to hold like 10 secs somtimes for 2mins to come back for the dowstaris burn, so I feel like a lust would be kinda counterproductive if that makes sense

[glass tulip]

We hit the blizzard a couple of times and the DoT wiped the group

so RL wanted to push that

[latent stream]

In that case there is nothing wrong with trying it, but the last phase will not be as free

[glass tulip]

That was my thought

im very afraid to see the end of the fight with no lust

[restive crypt]

i'm going to be crafting the flagellation cloak what stats would i be putting on it? just crit and verse?

[timid cloud]

If you’re using it for all forms of content or you have any intentions at all of playing sub***...you should go crit / verse, it’s usually the safest play.

But if it’s sin then usually crit / haste

But....

[restive crypt]

cheers, i usually only raid with sin

[jovial junco]

Ive been Outlaw forever , switching to Sin for a bit....what would be the best Lego for both Raid and M+ ....Dashing ? or would I be better off with 2....Im Necro Btw

[slim wagon]

for necro sin, doomblade might outsim dashing, you should simyourself.

For M+ as necro use zoldyck

[jovial junco]

Ok Ill have a bit of a look before making.....back is better rite ?

[ashen totem]

as venthyr, do you guys go obedience in m+?

[tacit wedge]

zoldyck

always

[upbeat needle]

ehh

obedience is a good pick

If I'm venthyr I'd go obedience, flag as a 1min CD that you can just send is really good

Especially in shit like TOP

[jovial junco]

Hey man you are talking about Lego placement for Zoldyck and Necro ?

[ashen totem]

Yeah just kinda curious cause even tho zoldyck remained solid, was wondering how obedience changed the game, if it did

[upbeat needle]

just imagine you're doing a dungeon, right?

and you have flag every minute

pretty much it tbh

very consistent

[upbeat needle]

Necro Sin you're gonna want Dashing with Frost for Raid and for keys you'll want Zoldyks

You're gonna need two leggos if you wanna be optimal but if you want to just make one I guess you can use Doomblade but it's meh in keys

[jovial junco]

Ok so I will need 2 then......both back is fine I guess

[upbeat needle]

Yessir

Oh Zoldyk's can't go on back

iirc

I think it's legs

[tacit wedge]

zoldyck legs

[upbeat needle]

ye

[tacit wedge]

obediance back

[upbeat needle]

He's necro

[slim wagon]

zoldyck on legs, dashing + doomblade on cloak

[upbeat needle]

but Obedience/Dashing/Doomblade are all on back

[jovial junco]

Ok ...sweet I have to shuffle around a bit , but should be fine , gonna keep using outlaw for keys atm , so Dashing for Raid will be fine I guess ?

[tacit wedge]

yes

[jovial junco]

Awesome ...I have all the shards at max already so keen to try it out with Dashing

[ashen totem]

I dont rly play sin in keys, been wanting to make zoldyck since 9.0 8 legos, no zoldyck

[tacit wedge]

CT being target uncapped is the reason i stopped playing outlaw in keys

[jovial junco]

It wont really make a difference will it ? 5 cap I mean.....maybe no diff for outlaw but a buff for others possibly

[ashen totem]

Meh, outlaw is fine. Ppl barely pull over the cap for it to matter up to like +22 keys

There is ardenweald in dos, and a couple of pulls in halls

[jovial junco]

Double pulls

[tacit wedge]

not really? for my experience, now that everything is softcapped, tanks pull bigger

[ashen totem]

Havent seen any tank drastically change their route or pulling cause "x class got uncapped now"

And half of the dungeons are pretty limiting, dont rly allow for it, stuff like top or spires, mists...

what ends up happening is, uncapped classes just naturally do better in specific spots of the dungeon, like the double pulls in spires, the double in mists and stuff, things that ppl always pulled anyway

[tacit wedge]

degenerate pulls

[glass tulip]

obed for tyrannical/prio damage, zoldyck for fort/better aoe

[versed mica]

My blood dk just goes all dps talents, pulls huge packs, and beats everyone's dps now

The blood dk tank in my m+ group I mean

[ashen totem]

My blood dk dies in heroic tarragrue

[limber lion]

@drifting cloud have you done any boosts recently?

[limber lion]

No, every item has the same drop chance.

Of course the more items the boss can drop, the lower the chance of getting a specific item from a boss is.

[strange python]

Don't worry, when i do finally get the 246 dagger, i'll just get a 252 in my vault the following tuesday.

[alpine latch]

So I know there's been a lot of MFD talk in raid, but I'm still not seeing any of the top parses use it

[uneven hamlet]

I accepted my fate, I'll drop the mythic one when we get our CE in a month

[alpine latch]

Confused as to if it's better, why it's not being ran at all by the top performers

[strange python]

@alpine latch if I had to venture a guess - it'd just be that it's not that much better - and during progression, people tend to prefer an easier route. Once things are on farm (assuming that player is still reclearing) people get bored and try different, more prone-to-error and technical specs?

The sim can play perfectly you know.

[spice spire]

Sub 2% gain at most and it takes some thought process to pull off

Not saying you or anyone is stupid for not doing it, as it’s not my preference either. But it’s another mental note to make while playing

[alpine latch]

Yeah, I just figured I'd be seeing it more on top parses

Normally as things become better in the sims I start seeing it more and in this case I'm not

[spice spire]

People play assassination to be comfy - mfd less comfy

[odd heath]

Personally, all my parses are better with mfd

Nice to snipe some mfd resets

[pure moth]

Im not a fan of mfd, but i only tried it once lol

[strange python]

I quite like it - i kinda keybinded myself into a corner this xpac though

I've got a floater i could use - but i enjoy having that floater for stuff hah

I basically redid all my keybinds to help my hands - turned 40 this year and can't hit keys quite like I used to when I started playing...I dunno if anyone else has that excuse lol...but it's kinda mine.

Thought about playing arcane mage, but it put me to sleep lol

[golden basalt]

I don’t really miss Vigor except for in the opening it’s really awkward when mut-snd-mut doesn’t bring you to 4 CP for flag-rupture and you kinda just sit waiting for energy to throw another mut

With vigor it just flows better

[strange python]

Oh...we finally got Soulrender down last night.

[golden basalt]

But mfd during flag is poggers

[strange python]

so 4/10M now...can't complain about that.

[odd heath]

Gz

[strange python]

thx

[loud jungle]

no assass in the top keys since 9.1.5 😦

[strange python]

CT needs something more behind it imo

Or maybe it should just be baseline and the talent should buff it significantly or something.

[clever kindle]

Eh, Sin should have to lose something to focus on aoe, you can't just be great at everything.

[spice spire]

Not much changes with uncapping. Very few pulls take huge advantage of it

[clever kindle]

Thats how you end up with MOP classes with 76 abiltiies that all do the same shit

[strange python]

great link ww monk great - or just like on par with everyone else great?

[clever kindle]

WW monk is hot garbage outside of aoe

[spice spire]

Yeah WW monk on bosses is pretty

If you don’t pull shit with, they’re hyper useless

[clever kindle]

If we're going to use a single target boss as reference

And outlaw isn't normally this high on single target, it's mostly synergy with the current frost gems

[strange python]

man i gotta gear my feral

[loud jungle]

havoc DH in the best spot

right in the middle

[spice spire]

Simming well with some new demonic tech too

[clever kindle]

Havoc also has raid utility, good damage, great aoe

infinite survivability

[strange python]

Any time I play my feral - i just miss too much stuff from the rogue toolkit though

[loud jungle]

yeah, really good in keys too

[spice spire]

Venthyr dh

[loud jungle]

maybe i should have kept playing my havoc kek

[strange python]

lol my son is venth dh

kid's a beast

[spice spire]

With the legendary you can do some nutter damage

Lining eye beams up makes it GIGA

Truly demonic tech

[soft shale]

yea venthyr dh is funny

[alpine latch]

I know that Item Level parsing isn't that big of a deal

but I hit 97% on Guardian

And I feel damn good about that

[gusty mirage]

well yeah uncapping wasn't going to make assassination magically do the most damage out of all the rogue specs

[dense hamlet]

[gusty mirage]

it's still the worst of the 3 by far

even with it being uncapped and outlaw being capped

if we still did bfa sized pulls

then yeah it'd overtake outlaw

but we don't because blizzard hates us

[alpine latch]

Something tells me my 45% crit and 19% haste probably isn't ideal for Outlaw...

lol

[gusty mirage]

why not

[alpine latch]

IDK - haven't started really digging into Outlaw. I've been a Sin rogue since Legion

[gusty mirage]

I mean crit's good regardless of spec

BTE buffs crit % against that target by 20%? iirc

and critdamage by 200%?

for rank 2

meaning with your 45% crit you're critting 65% against your BTE target

seems pretty good to me

outlaw also plays frost shards

so its a 2 fer

[alpine latch]

I'll probably only run Outlaw in keys

[gusty mirage]

perfect 😛

[alpine latch]

I need to farm PF and get a Pox though, since we're not killing Mythic Painsmith

[gusty mirage]

high crit is good for all rogues in m+

[alpine latch]

I really like Sin in keys, but for raging weeks especially, I never have shiv up when I need it

[gusty mirage]

ye its unfortunate that 1/3 of our utility is tied to a dps cd for assa

which is a big reason it's the worst of the 3 this expac

lose out on a lot of damage for a soothe that's kind of necessary on weeks like this

[visual prairie]

trying necro for first time. sbs dot is buffed by zoldyck i guess?

[clear shadow]

or u can just not shiv and say sorry im sin

[visual prairie]

and is there any fine tuning to using SBS. seems like i remember try to use it during gemstone window. is that still a thing?

[arctic hare]

FEAR THE CHILDREN!

[spice spire]

Yes

And yes it’s bugged by Zoldyck

Gemstone window rule is only ST

In dungeons and shit spread it for cheap CP AND free bleeds

[arctic hare]

Sweeeeeet

[dark jewel]

are we not running nadjia since bugs?

[visual prairie]

theo sims higher for me regardless

[golden basalt]

Mainly theo

Nadija beat theo for me by like 80 dps but pretty sure the loss of crit just makes theo better for me atm

I just hate the umbrella and especially the cd on the tea

[visual prairie]

i do hate the umbrella

but i also hate seeing my guy shout for the nadjia thing while in some intermission

[gusty mirage]

essentially yeah

they were pretty close before the bug with theo outsimming nadjia for a lot of people

now the clear choice is theo

[brazen zodiac]

weird

[cunning granite]

is there a bis list for m+ ?

[gusty mirage]

not really no

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/droptimizer run that, and down below where it has sim options change it from patchwerk to dungeon slice

and it'll give you a good idea of what to target

[cunning granite]

cool

[gusty mirage]

and if you wanna know what pieces to target for raid just run it as patchwerk too

[cunning granite]

i am pretty optimized for raid

but i have the feeling i am doing less in m+

so i try now to get a m+ attire

[golden basalt]

Vers/crit rather than crit/haste is pretty good rule of thumb for m+

[cunning granite]

someone keen to help me build a

m+ attire?

[visual prairie]

can i sit there and you keep coming out of the dressing room and i nod or thumbs down

to a musical montage?

[cunning granite]

that would be awesome

but not efficent

this is all items i got

got about 10k valor to spend too

[mental trout]

is Sin the best M+ spec now or is Subtlety still the best?

[cunning granite]

i heard its sub

but i am necro

so sin it is for me

[mental trout]

really? i cant imagine the Cove changes it that much? I haven't played in like 4 months but back then necro sub was 100% fine.

[dense hamlet]

yeah i mean

fine isnt optimal

[cunning granite]

ye fine is everything

[dense hamlet]

venthyr is more fine

[cunning granite]

but for raid i like necro more

shield utility conduits

[dense hamlet]

sin or sub

[cunning granite]

sin

[dense hamlet]

yeah sin makes sense

sin is fine with necro

but necro sub

[cunning granite]

xD

[dense hamlet]

too weird to play

and dosent perform aswell

so

[strange python]

lol i agree it feels off (necro + sub)

but necro + sin feels so right

[cunning granite]

captain up the shields

xD

[mental trout]

so sin for raid, sub for M+ aye?

[cunning granite]

sin and sub is good for raid

sub vent m+ yes

sin necro is fine m+

[dense hamlet]

just play what ever ur comfortable on all 3 specs are doing very good

[plain onyx]

is torghast has no limits with runs now ?

[spice spire]

Correct

And runs give double

Embers

Feels good

[dense hamlet]

embers

Susge

[plain onyx]

embers or cinders ?

[dense hamlet]

cinders he meant

[plain onyx]

ohh okay thanks <

[pulsar sable]

so i just got rank 5 frost shards and im going to start playing ass instead of sub now and i just crafted dashing. i remember at the start of the patych that alot of ppl here were talking about swappiung to deeper blindside when using dashing but now i see alot of ppl still using vigor ep, whats the way to go with dashing?

[golden basalt]

EP and vigor/mfd if your venthyr is still, probably, overall the best set up

BS has its plays on ST with execute but EP is fine in all scenarios

Deeper feels like shit

[pulsar sable]

ok nice cus i heavily prefer vigor ep

[gusty mirage]

just take what you have now

[cunning granite]

thats why everyone and their dog is playing it

[gusty mirage]

and trade out haste for vers and mastery and mroe crit

bam done

you have m+ gear

[cunning granite]

i am kinda at 42% crit

xD

[gusty mirage]

more crit is good because of seal fate

[cunning granite]

but it kinda benefitrs the dom socets

these arent acctive in m+

[gusty mirage]

crit is the most important stat for us in m+

more CPs = more damage

[cunning granite]

ye

[pulsar sable]

around how much crit is my goal for raiding?

[dense hamlet]

around how much sims tell u

[gusty mirage]

^

you shouldn't chase any %

[pulsar sable]

aight

[gusty mirage]

you just top gear and replace gems/enchants

it'll tell you when to stop gemming/enchanting for crit naturally

[pulsar sable]

aight nice

tyty

[gusty mirage]

[pseudo hamlet]

Any noticeable difference for assa in M+ in 9.1.5?

[dense hamlet]

not realy

just uncapped

[gusty mirage]

yeah crimson tempest does a tiny bit more damage for pulls more than 8 target

that's the noticeable difference

lol

[cunning granite]

other question i had some trys at slyvi and started with crimson tempest but ive been told to go on bomb

[brave steeple]

assa will get more CP on avg in aoe being uncapped which is a decent improvement

[gusty mirage]

don't play CT for sylv

you'll never do any meaningful damage in aoe

ever

esp as assassination

if you're doing a good chunk of damage to arrows & adds in p2

your group sucks

[tropic ocean]

@subtle tundra in keys with obedience do you flag on cd or do u try to line it with vendetta?

been playing some since wednesday and usually doing 12-13k this week but think theres some upwards potential

[subtle tundra]

cd 95% of the time

[tropic ocean]

👍

[subtle tundra]

5% of the time its some important damage check/ end of the key and dont get anymore

[tropic ocean]

non cd i guess for upcoming torment or stuff like shard in halls to line with vendetta?

[subtle tundra]

usually those last at least a minute so i get another anyways

and i'd rather get more flags

[tropic ocean]

ic, cheers

venthyr sin plays a lot nicer than necro or kyrian before

[spice spire]

Holding flag feels so dog water

[subtle tundra]

i played necro and it felt like i just didnt have dmg

the overall was good but obedience makes venthyr the play

[spice spire]

Venthyr moves you into the more streamlined prio damage role

While NL is just trying to cover the weakness of the spec

[subtle tundra]

obedience does that

[gusty mirage]

you don't want to use a legendary that's useless for 70% of a pull?

[spice spire]

But poorer than necessary

[gusty mirage]

[subtle tundra]

you can play venthyr zoldyck

[spice spire]

Even without obedience, venthyr definitely helps

[gusty mirage]

you can

[spice spire]

I had to do venthyr Zoldyck last night

[gusty mirage]

but I hate it

I legitimately hate zoldyk

[spice spire]

Just reminded me how much I hate Zoldyck’s

[subtle tundra]

i was ok with zoldyck before 9.1

but then obedience reminded me what legendaries are supposed to be

[gusty mirage]

actually impactful?

[subtle tundra]

yes, and assa has none that affect your gameplay

[spice spire]

Idk man, even as Necro Doomblade felt like an actual legendary compared to Zoldyck’s

I hated db in keys 9.0.5, but 9.1 it felt like an actual legendary

[gusty mirage]

zold is nice for the fact that you don't have to do anything special

[spice spire]

While Zoldyck’s just felt like

Nothing

[gusty mirage]

but that also makes it incredibly dull

[spice spire]

The invisible killer

[subtle tundra]

also, it gives assa an AOE cooldown

poggies

[spice spire]

Obviously I ran Zoldyck’s majority but FUCK

[gusty mirage]

rogue legendaries in general have been largely boring

just passive damage

[spice spire]

AoE damage

[tropic ocean]

venthyr feels better for me with the kinda 1 minute bl

[spice spire]

TTB gains when

[tropic ocean]

or almost bl

[gusty mirage]

so boring that outlaw rogues started justifying using an inferior legendary

because "it feels better"

[charred wraith]

deathspike

[mental trout]

Do you guys remember when they said they were going to give rogues some sort of utility ?

[gusty mirage]

wtb PTR deathspike

@mental trout 9.2 for sure

[subtle tundra]

i can see playing zoldyck if you have a strong ST class with low cd

[charred wraith]

they did

[subtle tundra]

like a fire

[charred wraith]

its called damage

[tropic ocean]

i currently really.enjoy playing along shadowpriest in keys

somehow they broken with necro.and works out well

[subtle tundra]

but rn im playing ele/boomy so i need to carry tormentors/small packs

and zoldyck would handicap us

[hollow river]

I wanna try deathspike sin

Fuck single target damage

I’m a wannabe monk now

[charred wraith]

speaking of monks, there are so many awful monks now, its insane

[subtle tundra]

with how broken they are, obviously

[charred wraith]

dudes just aint pressing their cds or idk aint spreading crane mark

[subtle tundra]

monks do boomy lvl of dps with 1 min cd

on aoe

[hollow river]

???!!!?!?!?!?!?????

[tropic ocean]

well community malding again yesterday ive seen plenty of keys 18-20 on alt that denied 2.6, 2.7k ppl cuz they wanted ww

then settle for 2.4k ww 🤣

[charred wraith]

its a bit more than 1 min, but point stays yeah

[spark scaffold]

Hey guys, any news on the fatal flaw bug?

[hollow river]

Wdym I was holding my CDs for last boss????

[spark scaffold]

Is it fixed yet?

[hollow river]

No

[spark scaffold]

😦

[hollow river]

Don’t get your hopes up

[spark scaffold]

Did they at least say they're aware of it

[hollow river]

I’d expect it to be bugged til 9.2 if I’m being honest

[subtle tundra]

bonedust brew is 1 min and clones are 1.5min with 2 charges meaning they come off cd "faster"

[charred wraith]

there might be a timing where you wont have clones for the brew

[subtle tundra]

yes,twice a key

big deal omg

[pulsar sable]

gonna try going assassin next fweek for the first time on our sylvanas mythic progress, in phase 1 do i go tempest for arrow dmg or how do y'all do arrow damage? only fan?

[charred wraith]

dude cmon, 2 times is 2 times, we take those

[hollow river]

We don’t do arrow damage

[tropic ocean]

i just went full st

arrows not rly an issue anymore

[subtle tundra]

there's so much other classes can do for arrow dmg

[hollow river]

Your raid should be assigning CDs to blow up every arrow set

[subtle tundra]

and boss dmg p1 is irrelevant, so they can hold stuff for them

[pulsar sable]

so thats my opinion but i get yelled at if i dont go on arrows :S

[subtle tundra]

then your rl doesnt know the fight

[hollow river]

Then I wouldn’t go sin

[violet jackal]

Bone Spike, occassional fan of knives, or AFK our single target last night was super ahead of the timer. That everyone now has to join in on arrows

[pulsar sable]

i guess ill either talk to my rl about it and explain it to him or just go sub in "worst" case

[subtle tundra]

once your raid knows the dance of p1 you'll have to stop dps to get good phasing timer

for us during prog it was like 40 sec of raid leader screaming stop dps on boss

and it would still get pushed from tanks/healers

[violet jackal]

For the first couple of pulls I recommend just sitting on sylvannas and let your raid leader see what checks you are hitting

[subtle tundra]

tbh i hit all arrows but the first ones

since they are too far

[pulsar sable]

yeah i guess ill just talk to my rl and figure it out and take it as it comes

[hollow river]

I only hit arrows 2 during veil

Sometimes arrows 3 for combo points if they’re right next to boss

[subtle tundra]

2nd ones i go to them since its veil timer, and 3rd its stop dps

[hollow river]

Then I obviously hit intermission chains

Yeah i evasion and jump into sentinels during stop dps

[subtle tundra]

speaking of sentinels, has anyone else noticed you get targeted only once??

i mean fixated

i dont remember being fixated twice

[hollow river]

It’s every other set iirc

That You can be fixated

But never two in a row for sure

[subtle tundra]

👌

[tropic ocean]

same 🤣

[subtle tundra]

i joined a group and there's 3 french guys

i feel abused

[pulsar sable]

does the deathly shadows opener work for assassin aswell?

[dense hamlet]

no

[violet jackal]

Ramfamz timed a +30 46 minutes ago is that our rogue? 👀

[dense hamlet]

[hollow river]

Yea rams pretty sick

He’s streaming rn

[pulsar sable]

what is it that makes it not working? just reading at it i dont see why i shouldnt? i guess im missing something

[hollow river]

It’s a bug, that was fixed

[strange python]

apparently when sin switches, we don't keep the 20% debuff - but we lose vanish, which is an important cd for us.

*buff

[pulsar sable]

oh okok

[hollow river]

It only works for sub

[pulsar sable]

okok

another nbice reason to start playing ass instead

[hollow river]

[hexed frost]

Gamer moment

@echo geyser leave some breadcrumbs for the rest of us

[echo geyser]

im literally the key god this week

probably cause outlaw main

im rolling keys instead of bones

[oak sky]

@echo geyser gz on the 30

[scarlet warren]

yeah holy fuck man you're a god

do that pf next as outlaw and make the boys proud

[subtle tundra]

he isnt gonna troll the team that hard

do it as assa

[oak sky]

^

[scarlet warren]

sin is next level of trolling

outlaw is bis for pf

[subtle tundra]

no

[subtle tundra]

no

[oak sky]

Sin can handle a 30

I mean

Tbh

If silences are needed enough

👀

[scarlet warren]

i can maybe see it

thing is i think outlaw/sub are still tuned far better

[brazen zodiac]

teach me ur ways

[scarlet warren]

for pf at the very least actually

[subtle tundra]

outlaw isnt tuned far better 😦

[scarlet warren]

forgot sin is uncapped

[subtle tundra]

thats just outlaw copiums

[gusty mirage]

has nothing to do with fok and ct being uncapped

[scarlet warren]

no i know i forgot they didnt uncap it

[subtle tundra]

+1

[gusty mirage]

sin is the better 2-3T cleave spec

[subtle tundra]

assa isnt as bad as people make it be....

its just not popular

[gusty mirage]

flat dps will do that to a spec

[scarlet warren]

idk i havent seen like any sin rogues at all but i hope it is good in reality

[gusty mirage]

you're never going to do wow damage but you'll chug along doing your consistent 12k-13k

[scarlet warren]

i like all 3 specs a lot

[subtle tundra]

cause it isnt popular

[gusty mirage]

Varas out here timing 25s

[scarlet warren]

yeah sub has basically taken over this patch

meta wise i think

[gusty mirage]

I mean its fair that it has

it does more damage

[subtle tundra]

and most people have outlaw being the m+ spec so they just default to it
and sub just brings what people need rn

[scarlet warren]

yeah

[gusty mirage]

sin's the worst of the 3 but still really good

[oak sky]

He gotta show them

We

[gusty mirage]

just watch seli stream some keys

[scarlet warren]

varas do you record your sin keys?

[gusty mirage]

he's playing assa exclusively

[hexed frost]

I'm timing 21s as a sin. 12-13K overall on mists, halls and sanguine sounds good

[scarlet warren]

oh ok

ill watch him as well

[subtle tundra]

i've streamed a bit lately

today team isnt assembled 😦

[gusty mirage]

assa's grandfather of m+ is back

[scarlet warren]

dropped a follow

better see u blasting ltr this week

[subtle tundra]

my only problem is that my team isnt experienced in m+ and we dont have a 3rd dps

so we make many mistakes

[scarlet warren]

thats unfortunate

[subtle tundra]

sometimes we play with boomy and have to just play the whole route differently

but they learn and we're getting better

[scarlet warren]

yeah i know lots of players have left so finding ppl who still wanna push is kinda hard

big 3min cd classes really make an inpact like you just mentioned too

[subtle tundra]

like, we did SD and TOP a lot yesterday