assassination

[hollow river]

Then it’s nothing but ownage until Sylvanas

[ebon notch]

[frosty bridge]

If you survive the boredom that is KT

Never had less fun in a game

[cerulean nest]

239 guardian trinket or 252 eye trinket? I know sims cant exactly predict the eye

[ebon notch]

sim told me the eye simmed over the 239 guardian

🤷‍♂️

[gloomy knoll]

@balmy condor do the subsequent vanishes need mfd utilized on the 3rd crit for envenom as well

or does that only matter for the opener

[soft shale]

mfd get synced with flag more than vanish i think

but you'll have it again if you play obe i guess

[gloomy knoll]

i won't be playing ob

xD

[cerulean nest]

yeah but sims assume 100% eye uptime

[gloomy knoll]

but that sounds reasonable

considering it says u can hold mfd for flag

[ebon notch]

you should defo have close to 100% uptime

[bleak sky]

I leave for a couple of days and now we might play MfD

[arctic walrus]

if you're gonna vanish > env > mut > env and mfd outside of ma, if you will be vanish > mut > env then use mfd to get a 2nd env in ma

it's all minor either way you go

just fit shit inside shiv and you'll be fine

[zinc frost]

Eye uptime is better than you think, unless your healers hate you

[gloomy knoll]

@arctic walrus say you got shiv coming up in your vendetta like 9 seconds in right and you flag earlier with the vedetta

are you holding the mfd for the shiv window

or just using earlier with flag + vendetta

[arctic walrus]

Bro

I’m not a fucking scientist and can tell you every decision based on every second difference between 4 cds

[gloomy knoll]

[arctic walrus]

In your specific case you can hold mfd because if it’s 9 seconds on shiv

[gloomy knoll]

i'm just wondering is it more important to fit mfd with shiv or with flag

[arctic walrus]

It will come up with flag 3s left

You can hold mfd for shiv flag vend

[balmy condor]

More important with flag

[gloomy knoll]

gotcha

[balmy condor]

Way more important

[arctic walrus]

Or just fucking use it cuz nothing matters and your winds didn’t crit and you’re not getting pi and some guy from China has 16 fairies, 3 kindred spirits, and 10 windfuries

[drowsy parcel]

log degeneracy wont take over until 9.1.5 i think

its not so bad right now

[gloomy knoll]

i mean this tier in general is just bad

when you have so many external things

like pi, wft, sylv daggers, innate crit, uh set, frost set, etc

[soft shale]

i mean log degen will begin soon with cross realm

[gloomy knoll]

kind of kills any motivation to parse monkey

[soft shale]

well it goes even further beyond

[drowsy parcel]

i agree, its real bad

[soft shale]

because it will be pilot too

[drowsy parcel]

but its no so bad yet

can still top log without externals

[soft shale]

just remember they will ToS as much as they want

[gloomy knoll]

yea

it'll get much worse with cross realm lol

right now it's manageable just need some slight rng

this apm

with mfd

is painful ngl

and this is with dashing i can't even imagine what obe feels like

[soft shale]

i really like mfd

[drowsy parcel]

never played necro i take it

[gloomy knoll]

not since nathria

[real solar]

what apm.. it’s 1 more ability smh

[gloomy knoll]

did not enjoy necro much

on st

[real solar]

that’s off gcd

[gloomy knoll]

apm means how many buttons you press in a minute

vigor increases your energy gain so you press more buttons

i.e. spec feels slower or faster

mfd makes it feel slower

[full tendon]

Vigor 4 lyfe

[ebon notch]

bro its still super possible to log

you just gotta really get your cd timings down

[gloomy knoll]

i didn't say it wasn't

[ebon notch]

gotta know the fight like the back of your hand

i mean without externals also

[gloomy knoll]

i just said it kills motivation when there's so many externals

[ebon notch]

i really hope they remove raid buffs

at some point

because its super dogshit joining a group that doesnt have a monk or doesnt have a warrior

like buff enhancement already so its fucking viable to have one in a raid group outside of wft

[gloomy knoll]

yea not having wft makes or breaks some specs

like arms warrior

without wft just sounds painful xD

[soft shale]

i mean rogues get around 15% dps increase by getting linked to a kyrian moonkin and mages too

and other many things like demo locks with rallying/blood dk leggo etc

there are so many fuckery that can go on

[gloomy knoll]

In practice mfd seems to de sync with shiv a lot

I get why you just slam on cd and only hold for flag

[torn atlas]

Is Poisoned Knife a reasonable solution to snipe ranged explosives this week? Or is the 40 energy worse than just running and auto/muting it?

[full tendon]

I use it /shrug

Auto is best, but it's usually relatively urgent and/or far away, so I knife a lot of them

[torn atlas]

Yeah any in melee I just tab and auto. Have been using knife but wasn't sure if best practice or just negligible difference.

[full tendon]

Getchu a resto sham who shocks em all

(Easier said than done, lol)

[torn atlas]

Our healer is actually an rsham haha. But somehow our group has struggled a bit more with this week than previous and he's been stuck full healing at times and needed a hand with the bombs.

[full tendon]

Tbh I kinda sit out explosive weeks. PUGs all think it's someone else's job, so it's exhausting.

[worldly citrus]

Why was MFD/Obed not simmed BIS until now so late into patch?

[lunar elm]

whats this mfd thing and what do i need to know about it

[balmy condor]

Pins

[balmy condor]

Because that’s how research works

If the sims were to play optimally from the start, then an AI would’ve probably already taken over

On top of that

It’s only “bis” because ep/vig has become the rage this tier

It doesn’t outsim bs/deeper

Which is the actual bis single target that everything uses

[lunar elm]

its such a small dps gain tho:/

doesnt feel like its really worth playing

[balmy condor]

It’s 0.8%

Almost 1.5 with a lego swap

You’d probably swap rings and trinkets for the dirt that gain walks on

[zinc frost]

But extra button to press

[lunar elm]

^^

[gloomy knoll]

any1 know if remnant orbs reset mfd

[lunar elm]

and more torghast

[balmy condor]

The horror

[balmy condor]

Nope

[gloomy knoll]

sadge

ty

[bleak sky]

mfd on soulrender

[lunar elm]

so rn im playing frost dashing if i wanna play mfd obe do i need to fix my secondary stats or still stack crit?

[crisp shard]

Is there any way to sim kyrian Druid buff on us? @balmy condor

[bleak sky]

wait til sims are implemented I think

[lunar elm]

okie

[balmy condor]

I think the weirdest thing I see from the community is the group that complains sin is too slow and doesn’t have anything interesting, and then 5 minutes later you get people saying they don’t have enough keybinds

[balmy condor]

Same stats

[balmy condor]

Spreadsheet pinned in #wow-general

[lunar elm]

ok if whyspir says stacj crit i be stacking crit

[crisp shard]

Ty

[hollow river]

Would anyone be willing to look at my painsmith logs

[slow marsh]

only if you look at mine where i'm trolling with wound poison

[hollow river]

Lmaoo

I just can’t figure out what I’m doing wrong tbh

[zinc frost]

I think if someone makes a log thread we can check it out, whisp usually makes them

[hollow river]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Fygr1m4MWY9XJk2G#fight=5

here's one where i played sin, died around ~30 sec before wipe

my issue is usally after inermissions im stuck at 5-6k dps and our other rogue (sub) is usually popping back up to 7k (overall)

[versed mica]

Everyone talks about haste cap, where my crit cap connoisseurs at?

[gloomy knoll]

the fuck is haste cap

[versed mica]

It's the magical number of haste you hit where sin isn't "slow"

And it triggers @balmy condor

[brazen zodiac]

oh no not the "u can feel the haste" convo

[balmy condor]

man I love the feeling

that I get from alacrity

such a great talent

really rounds out the spec

who's with me

alacrity? haste? cool right

yeah

[obtuse robin]

i personally cant wait to add an other button with mfd

[sudden hound]

i played mfd obe tonight in our heroic kt/sylv clear and it honestly feels fine to play. outside of opener feeling slow

[ebon notch]

only problem ive had with my mouseover macro is that if im not mousing smth itll put it on my target

so if im off by a millimeter then i mfd the wrong target

[brazen zodiac]

@obtuse robin u almost done pwning?

[ebon notch]

but thats legit just a skill issue

[brazen zodiac]

i finished my homework

[obtuse robin]

my raid is in an hour

[brazen zodiac]

o okie

we can do it after then ima probs go make some chicken or maybe a taco

r u on painsmith?

[obtuse robin]

its a sale run

[brazen zodiac]

oh lmfao

[obtuse robin]

$$

[brazen zodiac]

my guild does that too. said they give their raiders like 100k or some wild shit

[balmy condor]

out of curiosity

do you guys know

how much haste %

you need for 1 extra apm roughly

1 more button push per minute

[obtuse robin]

let me see

my answer is ask koji

[versed mica]

2% :)

[balmy condor]

koji's got more important shit to worry about

the answer is 3.5%

[obtuse robin]

lmao

[versed mica]

Oh I was close woah

[obtuse robin]

so every 3.5%

i can press another button

[balmy condor]

you press 1 extra button, every minute

yeah

I honestly find it difficult as a musician to distinguish between 45 and 46 bpm

but ya know

people really FEEL the difference from 10% -> 15% haste

so what do I know

[versed mica]

The question is when are we gonna pick exsang

[balmy condor]

never

[versed mica]

Please answer daddy whispyr

[balmy condor]

its awful

[versed mica]

No that can be right whispyr pls

Cant

With enough haste and crit

It will happen!!!

[balmy condor]

you can be 126% haste, 100% crit, 126% mastery, 126% vers, and 30 second exsang cooldown

[obtuse robin]

ok next question

[balmy condor]

and it would still be MILES behind alacrity

[obtuse robin]

at what % haste does exang become good

oh

there u go

[versed mica]

[balmy condor]

like I think I tested an ilvl 900 character, which some extra stats on top

made exsang 30 seconds

and tripled the bleed out speed

and it was still like 2.5% behind

[versed mica]

As much as I like it

Alacrity is a lazy talent

[balmy condor]

exsang is just awful without something to jack up bleed damage

[versed mica]

It needs to go ans rogue needs like, actual talent choices

[balmy condor]

shrouded was the only reason exsang was viable

[versed mica]

Beeg bleed

[ember mural]

miss exsang

rip

[versed mica]

Exsang just needs to be baseline

Along with blindside

Just give sin everything and then make actual interestibg talents

SBS would be good baseline too

Or even flag

[full tendon]

CT baseline

Don't need 4+ more buttons tbh, just gimme CT

[zinc frost]

Having to spec into AoE feels bad

[full tendon]

It does

[zinc frost]

It would be the same as if when they introduced black powder and having to spec into it as sub

[proper pendant]

whats sbs

[full tendon]

Serrated Bone Spike

Necro ability

[brazen zodiac]

@ebon notch

[proper pendant]

ahh

[brazen zodiac]

!!!!!

we gettin better!!

[zinc frost]

Big pumper

[obtuse robin]

6 more to go

[brazen zodiac]

!

[ebon notch]

hell yeah bro

the illegal tech on the eye

is to get a warlock to set up a gate

you go dot up and shiv one add

pandemic window

gate over

and do the same to the other

staying on one eye is for noobs

[brazen zodiac]

haha

[amber fossil]

huge shoutout to Whispyr and others who mentored me. Sorry I don't recall everyone's names, but yall helped me go from single digit parses to the 70's in a single conversation

you guys are awesome

[bleak sky]

[zinc frost]

Huge, gratz

[brazen zodiac]

@ebon notch

!!!

[ebon notch]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[brazen zodiac]

debating if i should take

ct on heoric for soulrender

tbh

[ebon notch]

nah go PB

just dot shit up

[brazen zodiac]

im probs gonna dot 1 add honestly they die so fast lfmao

[ebon notch]

they only die fast in the brands

go and get ready to dot them when they spawn

[brazen zodiac]

should i dot them all up

they have two dks

so

[ebon notch]

do what you can

[brazen zodiac]

i didnt parse well on the nine :C

trolled so hard

[hollow river]

My guild has completely stopped heroic runs :/

I need to get into some boost runs

[brazen zodiac]

@ebon notch

:D!

[hollow river]

Look at this man go

Tearing it up

[ebon notch]

hes gaming dude

they grow so fast

[hollow river]

I applied to Accelerate and gonna do Boosting Buddies next

Don’t think I can get into Huokan because of last tiers parses

[fathom flax]

Guild died on pain smith

Big f fellas

[spice spire]

F.

[gloomy knoll]

i don't think boosting communities care about last tier

tried mfd during sale today

honestly feels really good on bosses where i can get resets

doesn't feel too bad elsewhere once you get alacrity ramped up

it's just that initial bit where you're ramping up alacrity where you feel the energy loss but that's to be expected i suppose

[ebon notch]

are these NA boosting communities?

[hollow river]

ye

[hollow river]

Huokan does afaik. they want 90% avg on mythic of previous tier is what i was told

[drifting cloud]

if you have 90-95 in hc you get in easily, depends on the community a bit

[ebon notch]

as long as you have 95 average you're fine tbh

[drifting cloud]

but they just need bodies for loot share

almost all of them

[hollow river]

im at 85% avg atm

and my guilds done reclearing unless someone else quits and we have to gear another toon

[ebon notch]

on mythic or

[hollow river]

h

i don't think i'll be boosting mythic for a couple more tiers, i just started playing back in january but i'm working my way up

[gloomy knoll]

the heck really

i'd assume as long as you had like 95+ you gucci but who knows, that's kind weird tho wonder why they'd care about previous tiers

[gloomy violet]

if im running a set of unholy gem, is doomblade better or dashing scoundrel?

[balmy condor]

About the same

Can just sim it

[gloomy violet]

whyen i sim it , doomblade is 0.1% better

[balmy condor]

Insane

[gloomy violet]

so if i have a set of frostgem

dashing scoundrel is for sure the way right ?

[balmy condor]

Yeh

[gloomy violet]

alright thanks so much

[balmy condor]

Np happy dashing

[gusty mirage]

[violet jackal]

It’s 90% average heroic of current

Starlight wants 95% heroic and mythic

[scarlet spade]

Does the frost/dashing build require necro or can you pull it off as venthy?

[hollow river]

dashing usually better for venthyr

idk now with the new mfd build obedience might be better for some fights

check the pins and FAQ

[scarlet spade]

perfect

[hollow river]

MfD updates should be implemented in Nightly raidbots build soonish

[slow marsh]

whispyr help me

i am r word

pain break brain i no work no more

[brazen zodiac]

there there partner

i have good news for u

actually i dont gl bro u got this?

[balmy condor]

I'm watching powerwash simulator

is this less fun

[slow marsh]

yes

[balmy condor]

that's unfortunate

so what's this break in brain

[slow marsh]

i can't figure how to sim myself with obed mfd

[oak sky]

[fallen arch]

Pls stop

Nobody wants to play mfd

Get rid of it

[slow marsh]

whgen i copied apl and ran in advanced sim with a top gear obed it didn't work so idk im dumb

[balmy condor]

[toxic quail]

Yo Whispyr, Kyrian isn’t as scuffed as I thought. I been knocking out some good parses with Kleia or whatever and frost set.

I think the best is 7.4K on Sylvanas tonight in our sale run.

[balmy condor]

Ye I mean it’s okay

It’s just ya know

Not great

[zinc frost]

You can almost say it’s not a …. Good option

I’ll see myself out

[toxic quail]

Haha I mean it seems like a pretty good option.

But I’m def going back Venthyr cause I like Door of Shadows for all the little stuff.

[fallen arch]

Liking door of shadows

[balmy condor]

Yo keep it in #outlaw man what

[gloomy knoll]

que

keep what in outlaw

[balmy condor]

Oh

Someone got perma muted in there earlier for trolling about how sims are bad and stupid for like a week

Your meme fits perfectly

[gloomy knoll]

oh

no i was just saying one pull of kyrian sin on sylvanus doesn't equate to a good covenant

[balmy condor]

Universal meme

[toxic quail]

I mean I was using it for mythic prog this past week and still pretty good mate. Haha

Anything is viable.

[gloomy knoll]

viable yes

good no

[toxic quail]

Haha

[gloomy knoll]

a differential of 3.51% isn't going to make or break much at this point in the tier but early on in prog when people were wiping in p3 sylv at 45-46% i'd say that kyrian sin would be kind of troll/bad

but as always is game play what u want is for fun

[toxic quail]

Haha yep.

[fallen arch]

Lots of necro’s out there too

Not like they’re trolling?

[toxic quail]

Must be if they aren’t what the picture says. :p

[fallen arch]

[balmy condor]

Any fae?

[toxic quail]

I’ll go Fae next week.

Nothing better to do man.

We don’t use the sepsis free ability right?

[balmy condor]

Correct

[balmy condor]

Sinfall is emptier without you though

[slow marsh]

do you know when mfd apl change will go into nightly ?

[balmy condor]

Are you looking for something more specific than “the next 1-3 days”?

[slow marsh]

no

[toxic quail]

Yeah I miss running around seeing your yellow name.

[slow marsh]

I just want to know how hard i should go for cinders to craft 262 obed

or if it can just wait

[balmy condor]

Can just wait

[slow marsh]

it'll just hover around +50 right?

[balmy condor]

Yeh

[slow marsh]

cool i can be ok with that then

ty

[shell ivy]

How bad is it if I use my sub obe that is crit vers 😭

[zinc frost]

Won’t make much difference

Cloak stats aren’t huge

[fallen arch]

Superbad, bosses might laugh at you for doing that

[shell ivy]

[fallen arch]

They might not notice the difference

[balmy condor]

Might as well delete your character at that point bro

Almost as bad as crit mast bracers

[shell ivy]

[fallen arch]

[shell ivy]

I’m actually wondering if I should try out sin for KT prog now

Cause of obe

Sub seems to have more burst so I can’t tell

For phylactery that is

[arctic walrus]

sin can do equal if not more damage than sub on the remnant

[shell ivy]

We’ve wiped a couple time for the damage check, as 2x boomie 1x spriest 1x bm hunter and 1x sub rogue

[ebon notch]

Wait what how

[shell ivy]

But we did reach last phase twice

[fallen arch]

It’s the hunters fault

Ez

[ebon notch]

Aren't both the boomies ramping

[fallen arch]

Always blame the hunter

[ebon notch]

Also true

[shell ivy]

So I’m actually wondering if sin would help if the damage is actually better

But also don’t wanna fuck up timings for p1

[ebon notch]

I mean they should both pump hard enough

Can you link the phylactery log

[fallen arch]

Daps wanna make sure boomies bad

[ebon notch]

Yes

[fallen arch]

[ebon notch]

Cause that comp is completely fine for phylactery

Should never fail damage check

Unless someone is being Sus

[fallen arch]

Probably one of them popped before that by accident

[shell ivy]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/TpgZtqJkFyaVGM91/

[fallen arch]

Zero dps on phylactery

[shell ivy]

They both seem to do good enough

I mean we did reach p3 twice as I said so damage is good if nothing goes bad, it still kinda close like 2-3 secs

[ebon notch]

Your hunter

Isn't using CDs

He's nightfae right?

[fallen arch]

Told ya

It’s the hunter

[shell ivy]

Pretty sure he’s holding cd because something is going on up there

We’ve had to damage stop aswell but also not reach dps sometimes idk it’s so inconsistent Notlikethis

[ebon notch]

And then here one of the boomies fucked their ramp I guess?

[shell ivy]

He died iirc

[ebon notch]

I mean you hold DPS at the end

Not at the beginning

So pump that shit then wait

Get it to like 62% or smth

[shell ivy]

Ofc

[ebon notch]

Then stop if you have to

[shell ivy]

I mean it’s veryyyy inconsistent

[ebon notch]

But don't just not press anything

Yeah but it shouldn't be is the point

If anyone has to reduce DPS that should be you, cause you can literally just walk away from the boss

Let everyone else blast and you adapt around them

[shell ivy]

Yeah I mean im mostly looking for comparison with what I can do myself, don’t really care about whose fault I just wonder if me going sin would help

[ebon notch]

You going assa won't make your raiders play better

[rocky pecan]

Well I'm on prog on kt tho phylactery and we go 4 dps 1 heal even if is boomi died they are alot of dps in phylactere shouldn't happen

[ebon notch]

Make that hunter pop his 2 mins and see how it goes

[rocky pecan]

We kill phhla with 2 less dps....

[ebon notch]

Yeah but is your hpal popping ashen or

[rocky pecan]

Nop

[ebon notch]

Cause then it's basically another DPS

What's your comp down there

[rocky pecan]

2 venth boomy assa dh pal heal

Dh leave at 85% then 45%

When boomi ramp is hight

[ebon notch]

We did it with 2 venth 1 nf boomie me and hpal

I hold DPS if raid leader says so and yeah

[oak sky]

daps

[ebon notch]

If they fuck their ramp we wipe if they don't we kill

@oak sky <3

[shell ivy]

I still believe I can change smth

[rocky pecan]

I just said that cauz they are 6 OK there bbomi failed a ramp but with 2 more dps

[shell ivy]

don’t like blaming others

[ebon notch]

I mean you can DM the hunter and tell him to use wild spirits

That's you changing smth

[shell ivy]

🤔🤔

[ebon notch]

How close were you to phasing every time

[rocky pecan]

Why not change hunter stay top and dh go down if you have dh

[shell ivy]

Like 3 secs

Kick issues

[ebon notch]

Then save your pot for it

If you really wanna change something

[shell ivy]

We potting for second phylactery

[ebon notch]

Don't pot on pull and pot in phylactery instead

What

You aren't double potting?

[rocky pecan]

If you pot second you don't have for lust

[shell ivy]

We should have it back

[ebon notch]

Yeah

[shell ivy]

Lot of dmg stop

[rocky pecan]

Even with

[ebon notch]

Yeah but not 5 mins worth on 2nd phylactery

[rocky pecan]

Let me check

[ebon notch]

Nah your hunter is hard fucking trolling

On your best pull he didn't wild spirits once

[shell ivy]

I need to know the difference with assa really, how much dps are they pulling down there usually

[ebon notch]

He's legit saving it to pad on boss damage

When you stop dps anyway

I'll get my log hold on

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/WrVfwLFAx8NmJd7M#fight=22&type=damage-done

I solo'd last phylactery

[brazen zodiac]

@ebon notch help

black is roasting me for not using theo

[ebon notch]

Ye

[brazen zodiac]

and is using u as an exampe

[ebon notch]

Tell him to play nice

And show you how to sim it

[brazen zodiac]

oh he did

lmfao

its only like a 45 dps increase idk

[ebon notch]

Then go use Theo wyd

Smh

[brazen zodiac]

not using theo and being based

[ebon notch]

Cringepilled

[brazen zodiac]

choked and swallowed

[obtuse robin]

[ebon notch]

@obtuse robin no bully

[obtuse robin]

if you only knew

how

[shell ivy]

For last one I have to pop flag which I didn’t the first time we reached it so I felt bad all evening

[kind talon]

[obtuse robin]

small brained this person is

[ebon notch]

What

[rocky pecan]

You CD on last one dapsp?

[ebon notch]

Wdym

[kind talon]

"i solo'd last phylactery" with 4 other ppl

kekw

[ebon notch]

Yeah boomies saved ramp for lust and I popped everything downstairs

[ebon notch]

As in they didn't use their CDs

[oak sky]

cding 3rd phylactery

[ebon notch]

Yeah ik

Was giga cringe

[rocky pecan]

Hum you won't xd boss then

[ebon notch]

But I had to prove I wasn't a pad lord

[rocky pecan]

Kek

[oak sky]

"pad"

[brazen zodiac]

in my defense

im trying

:C

[ebon notch]

Dude @kind talon look at p3 only damage and show flupsy ramp

[shell ivy]

I held shadow blades and didn’t use flag (I don’t remember if I had it) but in my mind I wanted to have it for burn phase

but we didn’t reach damage check then so I felt bad

[ebon notch]

Boss damage doesn't matter on KT

You always stop DPS

[kind talon]

lmao

i love how

[shell ivy]

P3 that is

[kind talon]

u ended the boss during lust

[ebon notch]

Use what you need to on the parts that matter

[kind talon]

[oak sky]

only time boss damage matters is p3 and if you fail checks

[kind talon]

boss died like 5 seconds after lust ran out

sick boss

[ebon notch]

Yeah cause our boomie did 30kdps

He fucking destroyed it

[kind talon]

pogpogpog

[ebon notch]

@shell ivy get your hunter to pop wild spirits and you won't have problems

[shell ivy]

Don’t really wanna ask anything I just wondered if I could change something myself but if not then that’s fine as we did reach p3 twice

[ebon notch]

If my raid leader saw that

I was saving CDs

And we were missing damage checks

He'd put me on the bench so hard I'd break my asshole

[fallen arch]

/gkick

[shell ivy]

Do u know how to do a zoom on phone on wlog

[fallen arch]

Ye go to browser

[ebon notch]

No and I'm also on phone

[fallen arch]

Instead of using it in discord

[balmy condor]

[ebon notch]

Just sort by enemy damage>remnant

[shell ivy]

I just wanna see each phase

Phylactery

[arctic walrus]

browser > landscape

[shell ivy]

It’s aidssssasss

[ebon thorn]

!deathspike

[ebon notch]

Sorry for my colourful language @balmy condor

[ebon thorn]

@balmy condor i did a sim and deathspike kinda won over everything else by a decent amount, but is it still bugged

[fallen arch]

As sin?

[ebon thorn]

ya

[fallen arch]

Show sims?

I would love for deathspike to be actually good

[ebon thorn]

i mean

its dungeon sim though so idk how accurate

[fallen arch]

It should be fairly accurate

The thing is, it doesn’t do shit on bosses

[balmy condor]

Yeah that’s normal

Deathspike crushes dslice

[ebon notch]

Pad leggo

[ebon thorn]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2UpeM9y6TDmaGKQRMGTrwF

[fallen arch]

254

[ebon thorn]

Thinking about going back venthyr though 🤔

[ebon notch]

Cba with that dagger RNG

[oak sky]

yeah deathspike is sick just your single target with it

[kindred rapids]

I don't care what wcl says, BS/DS pumps on remnant

[slow marsh]

Sure if you never dot orbs I guess

[balmy condor]

Bs/ds does sim higher on cleave add though

…Is what I would say if I didn’t know any better

[kindred rapids]

Conclusive proof, right here: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/proudmoore/manwi#boss=2432

ignore the confounding factors

like ilvl and kill time

[kindred rapids]

but it actually does

I don't understand why the BS logs are so bad

[balmy condor]

:/

https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/5za9utFtT6rNXXjMBr8QSq

Where does it say that though

That’s pre-mfd change as well

:/

[kindred rapids]

fair, I meant for me: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/VoEKjh1VXR96sFsxwSMqL

oh, EP MFD

yeah

going to try MFD on soulrender, should be good there

even though the logs are overwhelmingly EP /vig

you also don't get mfd resets on orbs so

[quaint carbon]

Do you rupture or evenom when switching target and you have 5 cp? KT add room, or eye eyes?

[balmy condor]

Doesn’t actually matter in this case because that’s before we even account for the ~1% apl gain that isn’t in yet

[balmy condor]

Rupture is always the priority if they live long enough

[kindred rapids]

ah, I see

I'm behind the times

[balmy condor]

Actually right on time

This reset is probably the first decent surge of ep mfd

[quaint carbon]

Aight yeah I thought that ty

[balmy condor]

Should start to become fairly common in the next month just by logs

[slow marsh]

Yeah

It was just discovered yesterday so

[balmy condor]

Takes time to get through the sea of parses

But it’ll get there

[slow marsh]

Just like dashing

Obed's time is coming

I need 1k cinders for mine kek

[balmy condor]

Just when you thought whispyr was done spreading the gospel of obedience

[slow marsh]

I was already thinking about it just for the timings value but this kinda locks it in

Also gives me another reason to push for pi again

[rocky pecan]

you do obe crit hast or crit vers ( for sub spec tho) ?

[balmy condor]

I mean there’s not really a fight where you would take obedience for the aoe

Crit vers for sub

[slow marsh]

Oh well

Soulrender?

Kt isn't for aoe but just timings in general

[balmy condor]

Obedience is good on soulrender for timings and cp gen

And also dashing not liking ct doesn’t help

[slow marsh]

K

[balmy condor]

But dashing beats obedience on 3

Could take obed for idk

[rocky pecan]

dashing help to feed frost set tho no ?

[balmy condor]

KT if you’re staying up?

[balmy condor]

It does yeah

[slow marsh]

Dashing does feed frost which is nice. My winds were cranked in this week soulrender

[rocky pecan]

idk how many we lost on frost set with mfd obe prolly not that much

[balmy condor]

How many we lost?

[slow marsh]

Maybe how much we lose?

[balmy condor]

Are we talking frost set damage

Or like

Overall

[rocky pecan]

no frost set

[balmy condor]

Or losing people that go dashing

[slow marsh]

I think how much frost dam we lose yeah

[rocky pecan]

overall we should win

[slow marsh]

Oh NVM just when I thought I had it translated

[balmy condor]

Bout 100

1700 with dashing, 1600 with obed

[jaunty kayak]

what happened to mfd? i kinda slept in a cave

[balmy condor]

Pins

[slow marsh]

We use it now

Is what happened

[jaunty kayak]

ah..im necro so not my business as of now xd

[slow marsh]

I'm assuming we still hard stack crit tho even with obed frost right? It's not gonna swing to haste at all?

[balmy condor]

I mean maybe a little?

Won’t matter

[brazen zodiac]

if i have to wait another 2-3 weeks to build zold im gonna cry

[balmy condor]

You don’t have to go out and get a whole new set

[slim jay]

i just swapped to venth, which version of the tea do people take?

[balmy condor]

The one they’re given

[slim jay]

is it random

?

[balmy condor]

Yes

[brazen zodiac]

unless ur based and u log in 4 hours before raid

[rocky pecan]

yup

[slow marsh]

Well no but I would have to farm korthia for a socket on my haste ring which is a rip

[slim jay]

thats makes things easier

[balmy condor]

The difference between them is also nothing to write home about

[slow marsh]

It's only 50 dps nbd

Not like if I roll AGI I immediately swap to outlaw or anything

[slim jay]

just making sure

[balmy condor]

I have so much crit it wants haste

:(

[brazen zodiac]

me too whisp :C

[slow marsh]

How much is so much though

Without cheesing

[slim jay]

crit and haste are equil for me right now

[balmy condor]

I had 47% last week

Managed to skim it down to 42% with some swaps and re enchanting m

[rocky pecan]

im at 44% crit 19% hast

[slow marsh]

I'm at 47% too right now

50 if I get crit roll

[rocky pecan]

you guys are playing assa with theo this week ?

[slow marsh]

Yet somehow even with 97% crit during MA I still manage to only get 2 cp on my 2nd muti after snd

Feels

[brazen zodiac]

ima try it after @obtuse robin flamed me for an hour over it lmfaoo

[static acorn]

Just a question with the sims for m4d, are they accurate to the openers change you put in the message? The APL on them shows it m4d->vendetta->shiv->vanish on the opener

[brazen zodiac]

i thought it wasnt out yet

in nightly

[slow marsh]

I been playing with Theo for a minute

[static acorn]

no i mean the sims they linked

[brazen zodiac]

@balmy condor it was so funny. black was like "YOUKNOW WHO ELSE USES THEO? FUCKING WHISYPR" lmfaoo

[balmy condor]

Yeh it showed neutral doing either

[balmy condor]

Yeah on sub

[brazen zodiac]

i simmed it and its like a 60ish dps increase so idk

ima try it for fun ig

[balmy condor]

I use nadjia for sin

[slow marsh]

I made the swap when I had thrill proc twice during mechanics

[static acorn]

I just use nadjia sin and theo sub and then cry w draven outlaw

[brazen zodiac]

@obtuse robin >:(

[static acorn]

cuz i aint playing outlaw till I can go necro for it

[brazen zodiac]

is necro required for outlaw?

[static acorn]

it's just more fun

[slow marsh]

No

I play venthyr outlaw

[rocky pecan]

same

[balmy condor]

No way in hell I would play theo on sin when I play mostly sub

[slow marsh]

Yeah I mean makes sense tho

[brazen zodiac]

aaaaa

[slow marsh]

Nadjia on sub is trolling

[brazen zodiac]

i check on warcraft logs and theo under performs for the most of it but sims tellin me its a decent increase

[static acorn]

Like I played tons of venth outlaw already, it's fine but venth sub just feels better to me (big sub guy here) so I won't willingly choose venth outlaw over it, but if its necroutlaw vs venth sub, it's a competition.

[brazen zodiac]

idk what to believe

[slow marsh]

Although now with the conduit energy it's not bad unless you're swapping mid raid

You can believe everything you see on wcl boys

[static acorn]

I could even maybe see myself playing necro sin cuz the only fights I play them for are ones w multidot potential anyway

[balmy condor]

I’m a big fan of “doesn’t matter”

[slim jay]

ive been necro sin this whole patch

[slow marsh]

Wcl takes at least two weeks if not three to four to reflect newer stuff

[slim jay]

it feels good on fights like the nine

[balmy condor]

Theo vs nadjia? Probably doesn’t matter
Mfd before or after or during or uhhhhhhhhhhh boneless? Probably doesn’t matter

[static acorn]

I mean if you want the answer it's probably just "sims assume 100% theo, in practice you run around and get fucked cuz the tank decides the boss NEEDS to be 5 feet further forward"

[balmy condor]

More haste? More crit? Probably doesn’t matter

[static acorn]

Same shit happens w poison bombs

[slow marsh]

Yeah I mean Theo vs nadjia sin is a spread of like 50-60 dps it doesn't matter

[static acorn]

I just play theotar sub cuz i like not being obligated to take dauntless duelist

Did they ever make dauntless not a buggy piece of shit?

[slow marsh]

It's not gonna get you a 99 playing one or the other

[brazen zodiac]

u right tbh

fuck yo stats - whisypr

[static acorn]

cuz I've been avoiding running it since M Council prog where it was like haha, fuck your buff on anything but first boss

[slow marsh]

I mean from his perspective it's 100% correct though. People worry way too much about stats or sim #s when they should be worrying about missing shiv casts

[static acorn]

Fuckers be busy ignoring the hole in their pool letting all the water out

[slim jay]

stats are a crutch

[static acorn]

(its me, im fuckers. Too impatient to play sin :P)

[slim jay]

take your gear off cowards

[static acorn]

I did find out though, the most fun playing sin is to be had on tarragrue with the 30% cost reduction anima power

[slow marsh]

🤮

[static acorn]

plays at the pace of BFA max expedient sin just w/o the damage or exsang and that last 10% is brutally slow again

[fair glade]

is there any situation playing exsangue?

[slow marsh]

No

[static acorn]

Don't think so

[slow marsh]

No

No

[static acorn]

Cuz alacrity

exists

and is stupid

10% passive haste y'all

[slow marsh]

Cuz exsang bad

Even with 180% haste

[slim jay]

pvp burst maybe

[fair glade]

mmh yeah that's what i was thinking but just te bo sure

[static acorn]

revert venom rush to its legion variation

delete alacrity straight up and buff the other options to it's level

(I'm PRAYING that dreadblades sims well enough to run it over alacrity on outlaw when the time comes)

[gloomy knoll]

i don't mind alacrity on sin

[static acorn]

I mean I don't mind its performance it's just boring that its a forced choice and is nothing but 10% passive haste

[gloomy knoll]

sin needs something to increase its apm so if it wasn't alacrity it'd be something else that basically does the same job

[slow marsh]

Dreadblades won't outsim alacrity

[static acorn]

I doubt it will but a man can dream

dreadblades should also just be baseline

[slow marsh]

Fair

[gloomy knoll]

alacrity on outlaw is cringe

on sin kinda a necessity

[static acorn]

But yeah idk sin should just have its energy regen increased then

if alacrity+vigor is necessary to make you not get energy starved during your opener

then just buff the fucking energy regen

[slow marsh]

Sin is fine idk

[gloomy knoll]

old venom rush was also purely passive and served the same purpose as alacrity

[fair glade]

true

[static acorn]

Yeah but at least it was FULLY passive. Alacrity is passive until theres an intermission then you better hope you pooled combo points to blow a finisher during the nothing happening just to keep it up

[gloomy knoll]

i prefer that

tbh

[static acorn]

Prefer which

[gloomy knoll]

has some skill expression at least

the alacrity version

lazy rogues lose all their haste

better track your buffs buckeroo

[fair glade]

i think im one of them currently x)

[slim jay]

would alacrity phase out with more stats later in the expac or nah

[slow marsh]

Yeah idk I think you guys might just be worried about the wrong stuff altogether lol. But yeah change talents around I agree with that in general

[static acorn]

Probably not

[gloomy knoll]

nope

[slate sequoia]

Is Guardian trinket still bis when playing Obedience?

[slow marsh]

Na it's free 10% haste

In a row of shit talents

[fair glade]

frost shard on rank 3/4 are better than unholy one rank 5? or should i wait before switch

[gloomy knoll]

probably, sim it if you want to be sure

[gloomy knoll]

sim it

[fair glade]

did it but it seems to be lower, i'm sad xD

[gloomy knoll]

then you already got your answer

[sinful cradle]

Well theres your answer

[gloomy knoll]

might be because of your gear btw

i use frost 4 over unholy 5 on my sin

is much better

for me at least

[fair glade]

got too much haste imo

[gloomy knoll]

is not about haste is about crit

what your crit at

[fair glade]

36% for the moment

[gloomy knoll]

kinda low

think my sin set has like 45ish

u wanna be at least like 40ish

[fair glade]

wow and haste is not a prob?

[slow marsh]

Or you know

When the sim says it's better

[gloomy knoll]

haste is still good for sin but crit is obviously bis for frost set

but yea

just use topgear

takes all the thinking out of it

[fair glade]

just need nerzul neck or sylvie ring to be fine

[gloomy knoll]

i think bis is

arachnid ring, kelth neck and sylv ring

[slow marsh]

Bis is what sims say

[gloomy knoll]

nah i'm talking actual maxed bis

not what you got on hand

[slow marsh]

Kt neck isn't actual bis

[gloomy knoll]

but obviously bis changes depending on other gear

the sims i've seen have it as bis

[slow marsh]

Nope remnant neck is and that's why you sim =]

Because kt neck can be good depending on your setup

[gloomy knoll]

why do you keep acting like i'm some sim denier lol

[fair glade]

x))

[slow marsh]

Cuz bis list talk is kinda frowned on is all

[gloomy knoll]

yea because bis lists are pointless

like this conversation

y'all have a nice day

[slow marsh]

[fair glade]

remannt and sylvie loots gives so much crit that i understand you want it as bis but it might be hard to have a good amount haste on another pieces

[zinc frost]

No real change just wasn’t really tested/researched

[arctic hare]

Focus on crit/haste pieces

That might help with the haste problem

[hollow river]

KT neck and there’s some haste/crit boots from raid as well. Can be good items depending on how much crit you’ve got

[hollow river]

[burnt star]

U have a true "bis" when u look at drop optimiser and theres 0 upgrade..

[shrewd night]

wdym, farm them tertiary stats

[nocturne geode]

yea from your m+chest

quintuple rng

[hollow escarp]

farm multiple 252 dom gear so you don't have to swap shard gems

[nocturne geode]

tertiaries on dom slots

[gusty mirage]

Check out Mr. loot piñata here getting multiple items

[nocturne geode]

i never got loot off of eye at all till we extended

[hollow escarp]

yeah, I don't have to spend gold on enchants, just swap the item when I need a different enchant

[burnt star]

Still looking for a 252 dagger mh :(

[gusty mirage]

[burnt star]

Despite getting 3 m+ chest every week

[gusty mirage]

Soon

I stopped doing 10 keys a week like a month ago

Less depressing to get 2 garbage options than 3 tbh

[burnt star]

Also sylv dagger doesnt want to droo

[hollow escarp]

and here we give daggers to warriors for transmog

[shrewd night]

was about to say, why look for 252 daggers when you should be looking for 246 and 259

[burnt star]

Its still a 96 dps increase compare to 120 for any if the m+ dagger

[gusty mirage]

Ye just loot the items 4heads

[burnt star]

The 246 sylv dagger is worst in mh then 252 m+

[shrewd night]

[shrewd night]

Not if you have 2

[gusty mirage]

I’m using a 246 crit mastery dagger in my OH because sylvanas hates me

It’s okay it’ll drop in my sale tonight

[hollow escarp]

and you'll have to trade it

[shrewd night]

There is always next week

[gusty mirage]

The fuck I will

I’ll gquit before trading it

[hollow escarp]

deducted

[shrewd night]

Just dont loot it, let it go to mail

[burnt star]

I didnt say thus buttttttt

Open the chest

[gusty mirage]

It won’t drop don’t worry

[burnt star]

Look at it

[hollow escarp]

I think the leader can see if people didn't loot

[burnt star]

Close the chest

No he cant

[gusty mirage]

It’s a guild run, sales only get things that we don’t need

[hollow escarp]

ahh

[lavish lichen]

Ofc they can

If you have a stupid rogue buyer sure

But If I was a rogue buyer I’d FOR SURE check if the rogue looted lol

[hollow escarp]

need my 2nd dagger for sub offspec

[gusty mirage]

If I could stop looting the KT neck and upgrade my 236 tarra shoulders that’d be kinda cool

[burnt star]

Rc loot council only pick up item u picked up

[lavish lichen]

Yes I can

[hollow escarp]

I think the leader can if they have RC loot council

[lavish lichen]

You can see what everyone loots

[hollow escarp]

also chest doesn't despawn if there is stuff in it

[gusty mirage]

Just don’t loot it and let it go to the mail

[lavish lichen]

If you didn’t loot ANYTHING not even gold you didn’t loot the box

[gusty mirage]

[burnt star]

Thats why u open it in single loot

And pick up everything ezcept said item

[hollow escarp]

nah, I like it to pop on screen

[burnt star]

U cant know if someone got an item or not

Unless he picks it

[hollow escarp]

that's how I got to trade away my first sylvanas dagger

[gusty mirage]

[hollow escarp]

don't feel sad for me

[shrewd night]

thats ok kojack, u dont deserve a dagger anyways

[hollow escarp]

I looted a 2nd one like 2 weeks later anyway

[gusty mirage]

[hollow escarp]

not a big upgrade for assa anyway

[burnt star]

Kinda big upgrade when u cant even loot a 252

Id take that +92

[harsh lantern]

jealous of sub

[burnt star]

239>252 gear doesnt even give that much

[hollow escarp]

same, I spend 5k research to socket the nerzhul neck that was only 15 dps increase

[burnt star]

Weird.. every socket gave me like 30-40 dps when i got mine

U using frost?

[hollow escarp]

I had 252 choker with socket already

so it was just a small upgrade over that

[burnt star]

Ah

That would explain it

[gusty mirage]

I use that 252 dagger for m+

It was a 7 dps upgrade

[arctic hare]

226 to 252 gives a lot

[gusty mirage]

Cool transmog though

Grabbed it instead of research for transmog cuz 7 dps ain’t shit

[burnt star]

Thats a 246>252 upgrade picture btw

[gusty mirage]

Ye that dagger is about equal to my 246 crit/mastery dagger in OH

Straight kaka

[burnt star]

Kaka

Haha

[spice spire]

+51 if I run unholy. +10 on frost

[gusty mirage]

+more if you switch Venthyr

[spice spire]

[viscid spear]

[drowsy parcel]

[spice spire]

[glass tulip]

[brazen fern]

Are these sims including banshees blight? Always thought that 246 Sylv Dagger will be better than 252 Dagger

[shrewd night]

It is, if you have 2

Yall have to make the effort of differentiating offhand and mainhand when doing sims and this sort of gear improvement

[fair glade]

To me banshees blight seems a weakbonus and without 259 another weapons are better

[burnt star]

banshee blight dps is really low on assa btw..

like if u run stat weight, ull see the 2nd stat u lose in dps are similar to what banshee's blight dps on a fight does

[spice spire]

Even so, the bonus could be worth depending on your set up

[shrewd night]

stat weight sims

[burnt star]

u know what stat weight gives u as info right?

[rocky pecan]

Stat weight 2021

[spice spire]

For me, running unholy it’s a +51, but drops significantly once r4 frost hits

[prisma cypress]

but if i dont sim stat weights then how will i know what to reforge

[spice spire]

A snapshot of what stats will give you in that exact moment. The best way to see if it’ll be better is to just top gear + add the info for the dagger

Stat weights have almost no use at this time as top gear covers everything we’d use it for, and better

[burnt star]

well that exacly

[shrewd night]

Only people doing stat weight sims are pawn enjoyers, prove me wrong

[burnt star]

but for the poiint i was trying ot make

its exacly what u need it to be

u want to know if equipping a 246 m+ dagger over a banshee's blight is worth it

so if u equip your 246 m+ dagger run a stat weight

[shrewd night]

No

Oh god no

[burnt star]

then look at the stat. and calculate rougly the dps it gives

[spice spire]

Yeah but your point is broken by: just top gear it and add the dagger in

[shrewd night]

NOOOOO

[spice spire]

Like

[burnt star]

then u can compare banshjee blight

[shrewd night]

AAAAAAAH

[burnt star]

it will be a rough estimate

[spice spire]

It is easily fixable by doing that instead of napkin mathing it

[shrewd night]

Gear compare AND top gear does a better job of that than doing some fucky stat weight sim jesus christ

[spice spire]

Because a bajillion sims are better than napkin math

[daring kraken]

Does anyone have the string/setting handy for testing top gear if slyv dagger is worth for sylv mythic? Aka boss dies at 45

[shrewd night]

Think fuu has a script for that ellinius, dont quote me on it tho

[cobalt pelican]

if you have double 252s and a 246 eon it's not close, don't use it on sylv

it's just enemy_death_pct=45

[daring kraken]

Ty

[burnt star]

btw ur wrong

a 252 mh + 246 off hand is better then 2 246

[shrewd night]

Link sim please

[burnt star]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pqPpQXsSZzEQyebVNtQgL5

[vital tapir]

why.

[thorny rain]

whats MFD Optimization?

[cobalt pelican]

why did you not sim the only actual useful combo

[thorny rain]

whats MFD stand for?

[cobalt pelican]

which is 252/eon

it's usually better than 2 252s by like 0.2-0.5% depending on on stats

rest is no go till mythics

[burnt star]

cose his point was having 2 eon was better

[icy iron]

@thorny rain marked for death

[burnt star]

so i only simmed that