assassination

[spice spire]

sorry to bastardize your work chief

[hollow river]

Whispyr did you actually go outlaw for a fight or was that a meme

[balmy condor]

I played like 15 pulls on painsmith as outlaw cause we were dps stopping and my dps didn’t matter

[hollow river]

How did it feel?

[balmy condor]

Pretty trash

[hollow river]

We’ve only been baiting the P1 hammer and been aiming to push the rest for the most part. We hit 2% last night

Ouch

[balmy condor]

But acro strikes makes balls pretty comfy

[hollow river]

Yeah that’s what I was thinking

As sub I tend to just nado/storm balls and evis boss

Unless the ball actually makes it a few squares from where it started

But even as sin, my dps has been really bad and idk why. Only for this fight.

I feel like I’m losing a lot of my frost procs or something

[frozen zenith]

sharp stones + phantom fire in raids or oil + phantom fire?

[balmy condor]

!oil

[prisma monolith]

Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ

[lavish lichen]

liar

you were legit doing the same damage LOL

[balmy condor]

[lavish lichen]

anti outlaw propaganda

[balmy condor]

It was all flurry on balls tho

[lavish lichen]

"2nd highest ball damage"

😂

[balmy condor]

I can’t keep up with havoc man

Chaos bolt half hits balls

:(

[leaden pawn]

Is the necro ability still bugged?

[balmy condor]

Depends what bugs

But yes

They reverted the 9.0.5 bugs to 9.0

[arctic hare]

HAHA!

I won a roll for PHIAL!

[balmy condor]

How many runs?

[arctic hare]

heh...

What If I were to tell you

that I haven't farmed for it like, at all

not actively at least

If the amount of runs were there, probably like 10? at most

[balmy condor]

Gz

That’s hella lucky

[arctic hare]

Yeah

its at 226 atm so I'm simming to see if its better than 252 IQD, which I highly doubt

Otherwise, it'll just be puttin valor into it

Next goal is to either get a 252 OH or a 252 Phial

So why is it that Phial is just so powerful? i mean, its a 30 second dot every 5 seconds, does it just increase the dmg if it stacks up?

[balmy condor]

Does a lot of damage

[arctic hare]

Like, stacks 3 times,

Does that mean the dmg ticks will stack up to three times? or will it be my next 3 melee hits or somethin like that

holy christ

Its actually better than a 252 IQD

at 226 of all ilvls

Wait, can it apply to multiple targets?

[balmy condor]

No

It applies randomly to one target

[arctic hare]

Dannnnnng lol

Hmm, now to try simming it for AOE, see which one is better

Oh, 226 beats out a 226 SFA

in pure ST though

Oh crap, you're right

[balmy condor]

Just comes into channel, doesn’t know any better, doesn’t read the faq

[sacred zodiac]

from faq Q: Is phial affected by shiv?
A: No, most of our buffs are 'whitelisted', meaning they only affect specifically our spells. This means shiv does not affect trinket, the extra crit from master assassin does not affect trinkets or necrotic wake weapons, ep is only our spells, nightstalker doesn’t work on trinkets, etc. There are very few exceptions to this, such as between the eyes on outlaw, and deeper daggers affecting all shadow damage on sub. Sin has no such interaction. (Alacrity is just raw haste, which does have some interactions).

[balmy condor]

And then lies

It’s even the main question

I could’ve been like “are trinkets affected by our buffs”

Man hits the nail on the head

And doesn’t realize it’s a screw

[sacred zodiac]

blind leading the blind

[zinc frost]

[arctic hare]

Lol

I read it a while ago, just totally forgot about the trinkets, I'm just happy to have it regardless of whether or not shiv works with it

[balmy condor]

Nah I’m not mad at you

[arctic hare]

Ahh, okay

[balmy condor]

It’s the guy that just drops in to say some nonsense

[arctic hare]

🤣

[balmy condor]

Not knowing, and asking questions
Knowing, and asking questions
Knowing, and not asking questions
Not knowing, and not asking questions

All fine

[sacred zodiac]

keep holding shiv for that sweet phial cd tho

[balmy condor]

The moment you pretend to know

That’s when we got issues

[zinc frost]

Pretend to know and impart “wisdom”

[balmy condor]

The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, but the illusion of knowledge

Or something like that

Idk who said it

:/

[obtuse robin]

bruce lee said that i think

[balmy condor]

Maybe, seems too philosophical for Bruce lee though

[obtuse robin]

lee was liek that tho

u must flow like water etc

[balmy condor]

Yeah

He was more metaphorical

Anyway

Trinkets aren’t buffed by anything

[zinc frost]

People just pick up things here and there and just interpret to something completely wrong

[balmy condor]

And that’s the lesson we all learned

[zinc frost]

Then go “oh but whispyr said that” even tho it was not even close

[quasi venture]

Its all a preference after all

[balmy condor]

We’ve had a couple instances of “cev said” recently

I’m glad he’s feeling the frustration too

[zinc frost]

Just lots of voodoo-feelycraft

[unborn eagle]

people that have like 40% crit how much haste do u have?

[gusty mirage]

I have 47% crit and 17% haste

[unborn eagle]

ty

[gusty mirage]

np

[unborn eagle]

working on the frost swap

[strange python]

wait i just read that whitelist thing thats cringe

u cant buff stuff like phial

[balmy condor]

Nope

Vendetta doesn’t work either, neither does elaborate planning

[strange python]

it hasn't always been this way though, surely? i could swear that some years ago effects like these would buff things like procs and trinkets

[balmy condor]

Trinkets and external things like blood/frost are their own thing

[gusty mirage]

how about if I press the bind really hard? @balmy condor

[balmy condor]

They removed a lot of stuff from interacting with spec mechanics around legion

[strange python]

ahh

[balmy condor]

There’s still some things that are global

Celerity for example

Or deeper daggers buffing all your shadow damage, including blood set

But then there’s things like shadowgrasp totem, which counts as a pet, so that doesn’t get buffed by deeper daggers

Generally speaking, if you have to ask “does X interact with Y trinket/effect” the answer is typically no

[strange python]

[obtuse robin]

but cev told me

jk

[viral locust]

You guys think it's better to run Obedi or Zold for M+ as Sin? (I'm venthyr, obviously.)

[zinc frost]

Both are good, zold will give you more consistent damage - obedience will give you more uptime with flag where you can almost have it up for every pack. I run obedience in higher keys personally.

[viral locust]

I just want my overall to look good. 😅

And then do you run Theotar or Nadija?

[zinc frost]

Theo for m plus

[stiff mural]

question:

I was checking around on WCL and i saw that dashing scoundrel/bloodstained shroud were used about evenly. Dashing "was" simming highest for me until i finally fot my 3rd frost shard this week for assasination.. now it's saying bloodstained is much higher now. Anyone got this as well?

[balmy condor]

seems weird

[hollow river]

hmm yes, indeed

very weird

[balmy condor]

Usually higher level frost will skew more and more towards dashing

What we working with iLvL/crit/covenant wise

[stiff mural]

239 ilvl (no sylv daggers just 246/242 daggers from m+) my crit isss 33% and im venth

[arctic walrus]

link it

[balmy condor]

Lil low on the crit front but I would assume dashing better

Unless it’s like

Rank 1 frost

[stiff mural]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fX6qDqEC6K3Wzb9RxZ1Adv

yea im like 9 stygian from rank 2

is the damage jump huge from rank 1? i noticed this winds damage was kinda creeping up towards my top 4 dps overall on a lot of things id have been dpsing

[arctic walrus]

no you're just reading it wrong

in your original sim, it's starting you off with poisoned katar as a conduit

that change alone is what is resulting in +200 damage, by putting in the proper conduits

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gH9o3MvYFQdxjEGKtAuboR

this is what the actual difference is for legendaries, but this margin will only grow smaller as you upgrade frost more and more

[stiff mural]

yea, i caus ei also do M+ and i put the right ones into my sim then i decided to add the option for the other back leggo to compare out of curiousity

[balmy condor]

Rank 1 to rank 5 is 1000 dps

[brazen zodiac]

@balmy condor https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/q1JZ9k4Re2zjoD7h5aiY7R

i have seen the way

the way of the zoldyck

[balmy condor]

[brazen zodiac]

whats the average sim in dslice anyways?

or average overall? on most dungeons i can get to like 9kish but i dont rly have any frame of reference of whats high or not

[zinc frost]

9-10k is good for overall, you can pump higher but it’s just dependent on how big your group pulls

[winged kindle]

Overalls will vary based on group, dungeon, and key lvl. And affixes. But 9k is decent, however there’s lots of variables to consider

Use your overall as a personal baseline and see if you can improve without losing out on interrupts and taking unnecessary damage. That’s what I do at least

[balmy condor]

The actual number on dslice doesn’t really matter that much

[unborn eagle]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/b9RL7S9JcYifQBpXp1XjZU disappointing thought frost/dashing would be bigger

[gusty mirage]

doom's just really good for necro cuz of sbs

[unborn eagle]

ya im not to worried about it got to rank up the shards first anyways tel/kyr only r2 atm

[brazen zodiac]

yeah? what's it supposed to represent tho? just curious

[balmy condor]

nothing

[brazen zodiac]

i see i see

[balmy condor]

dslice shows a mix of single target, cleave, and aoe

it doesn't reflect any dungeon in particular

nor should it

[brazen zodiac]

yeah i figured that much

[balmy condor]

there's too much variation for the number to mean anything

[brazen zodiac]

i just kinda thought it was like st + 2 additional mobs or somethin like that

how come its considered relatively accurate for rogue specifically then?

[balmy condor]

2 minute boss fight followed by 4 minutes of alternating small/large packs

that have variance in both their times as well as pack size

[brazen zodiac]

ah

[balmy condor]

because we optimized for it

[brazen zodiac]

i see i see

[balmy condor]

dungeonslice brings with it a host of things that normal sims don't really have to care for

like varying target counts

the time to death of mobs

[dry galleon]

how do u use fusion trinket after ur opener, do u save for vendetta or just send it on cd

[balmy condor]

warrior APL for example is single target, aoe, and that's it

sin apl adjusts timings based on how many targets are bleeded, when things are going to die, etc etc

[balmy condor]

on cd

[brazen zodiac]

vendetta doesnt effect trinkets

i think

[balmy condor]

nothing does

the only thing that affects trinkets is vers, crit, and depending on the trinkets, haste

so there's some slight gains for casting hasted trinkets during flag

[balmy sage]

Hi, basic things to play assa in m +?

[balmy condor]

but it usually is a little sketch

[zinc frost]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[zinc frost]

These cover the basics unless you wanted to know something specific

[balmy sage]

ty

[slim jay]

wooooo

[idle star]

Im not even excited about this xpack. If i had of seen that dagger a couple months ago i may have been super stoked. But now WoW is boring the ever living crap out of me. I can barely log in...

[slim jay]

then take a break

[zinc frost]

Gratz!

[slim jay]

ty <3

[dark token]

This

[pseudo barn]

Personally I've seen this game go trough alot of ups and downs during my years in it. And every now and than a rough patch hits live and all hell breaks loose.

To say I've been more stoked about this game would be correct. But every time i quit it, i come back after sone time. It mighy be just nostalgia, but in all honesty, i grew up with this game, and after trying mostly every other mmo i can say for sure, at least for me, there's nothing like this game.

And with all its flaws, its still, in my honest and humble opinion the best game I've played.

[amber fossil]

I can appreciate that, Tyra. There is a reason why many have played this game for decades, but for me, the most impactful, ass cliching fun I had was playing Tribes 2. It was a real eye opener.

[velvet nacelle]

i'm sure this is old hat, but i haven't been raiding a ton lately and finally finished upgrading my winds set: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/wgjh71bKD8pZAqRn#fight=36&type=damage-done&source=3&ability=355733

winds doing 60k average hit is sexuaaaaaaal

now if i could just get my ilvl up

[plain thistle]

you would do something like 80-90k winds 😛

[velvet nacelle]

i've been screwed by my vault for like 4 weeks in a row

pulled the 3 tokens every week

in fairness, i've only done 1 15 a week

[plain thistle]

I actually did a 110k hit last night, on roh kalo

[velvet nacelle]

haven't gotten a drop from the dungeons or anything from the vault

i keep getting dom socket slots

or like rings with terrible stats

[balmy condor]

cev hit like 200k last week

[slim pebble]

I’m 0/10 on this damn dagger on heroic and normal

[velvet nacelle]

i got the dagger on normal on my first run which is how i knew i'd never get the heroic this tier

still using a 226 as my offhand

[ebon notch]

Yh but that was on trash with weapon I think

My peak was 120k on fate

[opaque tree]

I just have a question about Crimson Temp if anyone could give me some insight. I use it for keys, but on ST fights, is it worth it to keep it up?

not having the envenom buff feelsbadman

[zinc frost]

It’s worth if using doomblade or zoldyck

[opaque tree]

wait, doomblade benefits from the bleed dot?

I thought it was only garrote, rupture, and SBS

[gusty mirage]

You maintain it as a dot outside of shiv windows

Only thing that changes that is if you’re playing dashing

[zinc frost]

^

[glass tulip]

dashing scoundrel seems kind of sus

[opaque tree]

okay, ty

[zinc frost]

Why?

[glass tulip]

just testing leggos on different raid encounters and obviously lots of things can change but dps just seems low and slow compared to others

[zinc frost]

Dashing benefits off high crit and frost set which is why it sims the highest for most

[limber lion]

Not true lol

[glass tulip]

I have a rank 4 frost set and 42% crit

so that's not the issue but im just not sure what is. comparing it to my most similar kill time / ilvl it was 600+ dps lower so maybe I just had a dogshit fight

idk I guess I'll keep swapping it in and out to see

[zinc frost]

Are you venth or necro? Necro doesn’t benefit as much from dashing but shouldn’t be that much of a decrease in dps.

[gentle flower]

im trying to be a mut roguee

https://i.imgur.com/xyXMXDe.png

is this normal

[glass tulip]

venthyr

like I said, Im just gonna swap it in and out bc there's no easy diagnosis here

[rocky pecan]

Cev using trash weapon on boss 😎🔫 ahhaah

Did I see ambush? I think I never pressed this touch since I play sin may I'm wrong?

[gentle flower]

blindside

[rocky pecan]

Oh

[gentle flower]

sims higher for me than planning

[rocky pecan]

I hate blindiside

Y for all it sim better almose

Almost*

[lean coral]

yeah most people dont play blindside even tho it sims higher

[rocky pecan]

But not that much ppl like

[gentle flower]

so um

new to mut rogues

[vestal wren]

ep might end up better next tier, but its hard to predict

[gentle flower]

how do i aoe

just spam fan of knives?

[lean coral]

fok spread rupture if shits gonna live long enough

if not just evenom main target

CT if speccedinto it

[balmy condor]

Yes

[gentle flower]

that was heroic guardian btw

and alright neat

[brazen zodiac]

can sin hit like 10k dps overall generally in dungeons or am i learning outlaw for keys

[zinc frost]

Hit 10.5k in a 20 mists yesterday, so yep! Can definitely pump

[brazen zodiac]

:D

can i ask what your stats were and such? maybe my gears not where it should be for m+ then

i feel like ive only ever hit like 9kish overall maybe/mostly less

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/q1JZ9k4Re2zjoD7h5aiY7R im using all this rn minus the cloak and legendary but ill have em next week.

[zinc frost]

Stats are 45 crit, 13 haste and 30 mastery

[brazen zodiac]

oh and some 233 Dom socket instead

hm

[zinc frost]

That’s using obedience as well. But should be able to achieve more with zold. Just all comes down to how big your tank is pulling as well

[brazen zodiac]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/kxVJMy4mkAf7gwX6Ero8xM

current sim

hm maybe obedience is bait

or maybe I just suck and I ain't pressing my buttons right

[zinc frost]

Gotta remember as well, d/slice is more of a guideline in m +, lots of variables to account for. Especially since I can do more overall even tho my d/slice is less.

[brazen zodiac]

do you think my gears bad

[zinc frost]

Not at all, I’d aim for some more mastery and a bit less haste though

[brazen zodiac]

weird it was telling me i needed more haste and haste was simmimg better

i think i have like 400ish mastery 29%

[zinc frost]

Yeah sometimes it asks for more haste in d/slice but mastery is really good in keys

[shrewd night]

Gotta remember as well, d/slice is more of a guideline in m +

Key words being "guide" and "line"

You have to take into account your team as well. Its no point gearing for overall, but rather fill the gaps of what your teammates bring. If you got trash blasters, might as well gear for singletarget etc etc

[brazen zodiac]

im guessing regardless it'd be better to use the dom pieces over regular gear for the dps shards

also yeah good point

[zinc frost]

Especially when your doing halls and have to tunnel the Shards. Rogues are pretty good at leveling out a pack. Especially this week when you don’t want the worst ones bolstered.

[brazen zodiac]

do you run Theo and if so do you use WPS over Katarina?

[zinc frost]

Just try not to get too caught up in overall, yeah we can pump in keys when we can but others will handle the aoe for us

[brazen zodiac]

katar*

[zinc frost]

Yeah I run Theo, I don’t use katar too much.

[brazen zodiac]

idk im still finding myself top dps in st during boss fights so i just kinda assumed i needed to up my aoe

do you cast shiv off cd still in aoe and evonom of

or*

[zinc frost]

Yeah I do

[brazen zodiac]

eveonom*

[zinc frost]

It’s good for prio damage once bleeds are up

[brazen zodiac]

usually for like big packs like the one in SD at the start i kinda just stealth 4 gar, CT like twice, vendetta some random, vanish then gar again, then apply rupture to everything, then idk scream at the screen

and flag somewhere in the middle lmfao

like after first series of gars. everything's kinda dead before i press shiv which makes me wonder if i should press it at all

i kinda wanna complete all 20s for the luls and maybe push into a 21 but idk if im playing properly to do it

[zinc frost]

Still good to get into the habit of pressing shiv, especially in higher keys where you need the prio damage, unless you need rage dispel. Timing 20/21s will come down to pulls, interrupts, stuns and a good route before damage becomes an issue. 9k overall is perfectly fine for a sin rogue in those keys

A good group will know the importance of a rogue in keys and that our aoe isn’t the best compared to others but prio damage is pretty damn good

[brazen zodiac]

hmm okie dokie

[slow marsh]

press shiv after your garrotes before ct

[brazen zodiac]

noted!

[slow marsh]

ideally on your vendetta target but just press it on something if it's on cd

[brazen zodiac]

even if im not gonna be using even?

[slow marsh]

it will still get used

[brazen zodiac]

using eveonom*

ah ok

[slow marsh]

it's better to use it for some damage vs holding it for a lot of damage but never using

just use it on anythign that will live 9 seconds

also if you're not flagging in aoe you should

[brazen zodiac]

yeah i am

i wish i had weakauras that said use x stupid bitch

cause even with the giant weak aura of all my abilities i can't look lmfao

too fixated on ccing cause lord knows nobody else will qq

[slow marsh]

i set mine to glow real menacingly-like (more like annoy tf out of me until i press)

[brazen zodiac]

mines pretty easy to see im just a troll haha

when should i press flag?

[slow marsh]

yeah the cc thing is why i stick with outlaw in keys right now tbh

press flag at full cp just like normal

[brazen zodiac]

so after shiv and before CT

?

[slow marsh]

so like garrote x4 shiv flag ct vendetta

[brazen zodiac]

ahh ok ill try it

[slow marsh]

using cds more often is the key for pumping those extra numbers as sin. a lot of time people hold them too much for 'prio dam'

[brazen zodiac]

yeah that's my mistake, especially with iqd

[slow marsh]

ye just slam that shit on cd

[brazen zodiac]

i just can never remember if ill have time before a boss

when would u recommend vanishing and reapplying

after cts up on all the mobs?

[slow marsh]

during garrote pandemic

[frosty bridge]

!sims

[prisma monolith]

Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html

[brazen zodiac]

oh so reapply onto the mobs who already have it? usually i just apply it to others mobs but ig if ur referring to like 3 or 4 or 5 mobs

[slow marsh]

yeah i mean if you have a huge pull sure

just put it on stuff on cd

ezpz

[brazen zodiac]

ezpz

do u think I'm trolling by running titanic over phial

or iqd over phial

[alpine garden]

Simmed it?

[slow marsh]

no i think you can run either setup depending on what you're going for but ye i'd just sim it

[brazen zodiac]

yeah i did and it said titanic iqd but I always find Sims weird with iqd so just wanted opinions

[slow marsh]

if you dont have the iqd weak aura, get that and it sims just fine

but yeah that setup sounds fine for m+, the biggest thing is just getting a feel for when things die / how long it takes between packs for optimizing. Until then just slam everything on cd

[brazen zodiac]

noted thx sir

or maam

[zinc frost]

Timing CDs is king, knowing how much time you got for vendetta/flag to pop off.

@brazen zodiac good luck pumping them keys

[brazen zodiac]

thank u :D

homework for 4 days then keys for the rest!

[wanton creek]

Finally get 233 sylv dagger to replace 220 one and it’s a 7 dps loss 😂😂😂

[north basin]

246 sylv is likee +30 dps over my 246 offhand.

sad )

for sub it will rox thou

and i still dont havee 246 sylv )

[wanton creek]

Why’s it so much better for sub?

[north basin]

i think its 2 things, conduit of 16% iincreased shadow damage in sub. and second sub doing more finishers than sin

[gloomy stone]

Can I make it somehow that a blindside proc activates my stealth action bar, like sepsis does. I‘m using the default UI.

[wanton creek]

What is sepsis

[gloomy stone]

The NF special

[wanton creek]

Nf rogue?!😱

[gloomy stone]

Sure 😎

[glass tulip]

what does mastery scale for rogues? aka why would I want higher mastery running M+

currently averaging about 9k overall with 42crit/20haste/20mast/8vers, keeping CT up, rupture on 3-4 targets, ST prio on big adds

[wanton creek]

Bleeds and poisons

Assuming it amplifies zoldycks effect

[glass tulip]

the speed they tick or how hard they tick?

[wanton creek]

It’s flat damage I’m sure?

[glass tulip]

also I don't use zoldycks

since ive already built 3 cloaks for raid lol, not farming torghast again for a minute

[zinc frost]

Yeah mastery is increased damage for bleeds/poisons. So how hard they tick over

[wanton creek]

How many cinders do you get for re runs of torg 12

[pale ibex]

https://soulash.eu/

[proper pendant]

do cov assaults give renown

[vocal karma]

yes

[proper pendant]

fk

guess i gotta do it

lmao

[undone eagle]

Guys due to great vault, if im already curved but i dont kill sylvannas this week, is there still a chance that sylvannas drop will come in my great vault?

im trying to get edge of night zz

[lavish lichen]

Yes

[wanton creek]

I always thought vault was from bosses you killed not the entire loot table

[olive lion]

35 keys in less than 2 weeks and not a single weapon drop

kinda cringe

[gentle flower]

for assassination

when do you shiv?

on cd? or before or after envenom?

[proper pendant]

where?

[fallen arch]

The former

[gentle flower]

so on cd?

[fallen arch]

The gcd when it comes of cd you hit it

[gentle flower]

word

[fallen arch]

No matter how much energy or cp u have

[zinc frost]

A slam shiv emote would be a good addition

[fallen arch]

Yes

[alpine garden]

Its the loot table of bosses you have ever killed

[gusty mirage]

https://tenor.com/view/rage-keyboard-what-is-your-problem-green-smash-gif-18195947

[proper pendant]

how about you slam deez nuts

[crimson valley]

Theotar tea priority @~240? Agil or secondary?

[proper pendant]

it gives u a rng one

[ebon notch]

Huh that's what you told me no? Trash before KT?

[rocky pecan]

shadowmeld is Alliance no ?

i though no more ppl play this side im surprise

so truueeeee

skin>skill

every expac is same

welll you uhave some problem as me with mog we cant make a thing good apparently XD

❤️

[fallen arch]

I don’t think mog looks good tho on female night elf

It’s too big for ladies

But lets discuss in #transmog

[stiff tapir]

What id do to be a Tauren rogue

-.-

[proper tapir]

Nope

[gusty mirage]

https://www.wowhead.com/item=128807/coin-of-many-faces don't let your dreams be dreams

[cerulean nest]

someone say shiv slam?

https://tenor.com/view/eddie-guerrero-wwe-wrestling-gif-6032176

[thorny pond]

Tattoo shiv on your back so you slam shiv every time you go to bed @cerulean nest

[gusty mirage]

now this is peak chad gamer advice

[cerulean walrus]

Tattoo shiv on your chest so you can shiv slam someone’s mother every night

[thorny pond]

You think you’re playing sin and sleeping with someone’s mom?

[cerulean walrus]

3 APM gives you plenty of time to do other things while playing

[thorny pond]

Yea but the drool down your chin is a turn off

[gusty mirage]

but true

[frigid kestrel]

!def

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Defensives usability: http://tiny.cc/q602uz

[real pewter]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/dBYNsXXekvV3YDBEiQtr8b Can someone tell me why I have a dom socket item simmed?

Like, what is it indicating?

I already have that item equipped

[gusty mirage]

what are you trying to sim

just conduit changes I'm assuming?

[real pewter]

Yeah

[rancid spade]

!oils

!oil

[prisma monolith]

Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ

[gusty mirage]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/xg7MnyNbRJhR8M9kVnEnQG

it's showing the chest cause I think your current chest doesn't have an enchant?

yep

thats why its showing the chest

[real pewter]

Ahh I see

thank you

[gusty mirage]

np

[woven ruin]

@alpine garden nope, the last 2 bosses need to be downed every week I thought?

[drifting cloud]

they do not

[woven ruin]

So if I just down the 1st 3 on heroic every week, I'll get a chance at heroic sylv loot?

[drifting cloud]

if youve killed her once yes

[fallen arch]

You get 3 chances every week if you kill all of em

[woven ruin]

Understand. The Q was if you downed her last a month ago, is her loot still im the vault chance in the current week? I was under the assumption u had to get her every week for a vault chance.

[fallen arch]

Nope you don’t have to

[alpine garden]

Don't nope someone if you don't know yourself 🤣

[winter vapor]

!defense

[plain thistle]

!def

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Defensives usability: http://tiny.cc/q602uz

[plain thistle]

there you go 🙂

[wind totem]

Seems to be abandonded though. There is no info after Eye.

[balmy condor]

yeah been really busy

with uh

stuff

not abandoned though

just really slow

[winter vapor]

its a lot to go through

but ty

can we cloak guardian bombs?

[balmy condor]

yes it removes them completely

[winter vapor]

mutters after being beaten by spriest ty whispyr

Gland over Decanter generally or?

[balmy condor]

depends

would sim it

ideally neither

[winter vapor]

fair, turns out he couldn't trade anyway

[gusty mirage]

yeah but its best to save in case you need to soak

@balmy condor would it be better to start the tazavesh stuff or try to fill in stuff I've tried in raid?

[balmy condor]

raid first then taz

[gusty mirage]

aye aye captain

[quasi grotto]

im cloaking the soaks with cloak. why meeeeeeeeeeee

[gusty mirage]

unless its toward the end you don't want to cloak the bombs anyway

need them to charge the pylons

[quasi grotto]

thats very true

extra 2 seconds uptime on hc tho XD

[gusty mirage]

tru

[cerulean nest]

anyone getting bugs with picking up/throwing nerzhul orbs, or has that been fixed?

(i'm not the one doing them, just curious)

[balmy condor]

idk what bug that is

[cerulean nest]

https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveWoW/comments/oxjfub/mythic_nerzhul_orbs_of_torment_bugged/

[quasi grotto]

as a rogue you shouldnt be doing them

[cerulean nest]

like I said, i'm not lol

[quasi grotto]

well unless theres no other classes for them

oh okay didnt read that

just gopt this open on 2nd monitor

[gusty mirage]

that entire fight is borked tbh

[balmy condor]

might be just server problems tbh from the sounds of it

I haven't seen it in my raid

[cerulean nest]

for sure

[gusty mirage]

I haven't seen it either but I've heard plenty of people complain about it

[arctic walrus]

@balmy condor unleash the news

[gusty mirage]

@arctic walrus

[quasi grotto]

what news

asa is dead

?

[balmy condor]

mfd is goated

[rocky pecan]

demn

[quasi grotto]

is MFD actaully becoming an option

[balmy condor]

well

it's becoming

the option

[limber lion]

it's always been an option

[arctic walrus]

the better option*

[cerulean nest]

elaborate?

[shy dust]

it does more damage with 0 resets

[balmy condor]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/na6rWPEHUweLWbzc79f1XE

[quasi grotto]

everything is an option give or take right

[halcyon zealot]

[cerulean nest]

so what, you'd just use it prepull and on CD?

with BS?

[balmy condor]

you don't prepull

[limber lion]

Sure, if your pull timer is 30s

[balmy condor]

and then hold for 15 sec to sync with flag

[cerulean nest]

ah

so literally just treat it as a flag booster

[rocky pecan]

depend on fight

you ucan usue tho on add since he reset etc etc

so

depend

[ebon notch]

does it reset on nerzhul orbs?

[balmy condor]

no

this might be more apparent

basically if you're playing ep/vig atm

you wouldn't

and would go mfd

[cerulean nest]

any logs of people using it?

just wanna see

[balmy condor]

I mean kinda

but these sims are literally 15 minutes old

so

I doubt anyone is playing with the new conditions

that I just posted

[arctic walrus]

i will say this is basically what I was doing last week

the only fight I didn't get fucked on though was eye

[balmy condor]

did you sync with flag

or just on cd

[cerulean nest]

where does it fit into opener?

instead of second mut?

[arctic walrus]

I guess yes?

[ebon notch]

on my sim mfd is better by 1 dps

lmao

[slow marsh]

what hte hell is this sludgefist mfd stuff now

why

WHY GOD WHY

[limber lion]

it's lit

Ngl MfD is pretty fun in 1-3 targets

but on something like kt

skip

[slow marsh]

good luck necro bois

[balmy condor]

it's not good for necro

[slow marsh]

so it's literally just for the +5 flag stacks

[balmy condor]

this is specific for venthyr

[ebon notch]

nvm i resimmed and its a 22 dps loss

🤷‍♂️

[balmy condor]

now it's an 80 dps gain

very cool

[ebon notch]

i simmed nightly

am i missing smth

[balmy condor]

?

it's not in nightly

that's just my sim

[ebon notch]

ahh igy

[slow marsh]

he literally just did it 15 mins ago lolol

no apl update

[ebon notch]

ye mb was confused

will be fun to try out

so you always line it up with flag unless you get resets?

[balmy condor]

hold for max of 15 seconds to get it into flag

[ebon notch]

so 2nd one we slam at 60 seconds?

pog

[slow marsh]

would mfd snd not be a gain with this?

and now with mfd obed is > dashing by a hair

[arctic walrus]

the whole point is that mfd is no longer wasted on prepull for snd

[slow marsh]

isn't it kind of the same thing though just -1 cp

[arctic walrus]

with cttc being re established

0 energy guaranteed 5 cp is not the same as 50 energy minimum 2 max 4 cp

[slow marsh]

i mean with 49% crit it's always a 4cp snd on pull

for me

[arctic walrus]

i mean for all i care you can garrote in your opener from stealth for a 1 cp snd and it would work

[slow marsh]

i generally get 27-28 stacks when i'm flagging correctly and not in a tizzy with mechanics so i'm just wondering how it could be optimized more

not opposed to it by any means, already play it in outlaw but it's way better for them

[rocky pecan]

That change its cool some change tho

[ebon notch]

i wonder how much value it would gain on sylvanas mythic

resetting on the arrows and shit

[slow marsh]

yeah with resets it's pog for sure

no doubt

[ebon notch]

and the adds in intemrission

im curious how shit the energy regen will be tho

[slow marsh]

i mean ep / ds already sims higher for me currently

so

looks like i'll be a mfd sin gamer though judging by this right?

[arctic walrus]

it's not the greatest and you'll definitely notice on a no lust pull i'll tell you that much

[slow marsh]

wait it didn't sim vigor rip

[ebon notch]

yeah im really scared how the opener will look like with no lust

[rocky pecan]

it's only -12 for me personnally

[slow marsh]

it shows as a loss for me with whisp's apl unless i did it wrong which i probably did?

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/uZkiRNEWYbJscJ5U8LucXT

[balmy condor]

aight well 2 things

1

that's not a loss

2

that's not mfd

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fW89tTmSHdn2egS1EWE7FE

[ebon notch]

that could affect the results lmao

[balmy condor]

if you don't change anything, it's neutral, wild

[ebon notch]

what was it that changed in the apl to make mfd gain value?

[balmy condor]

#assassination message

[ebon notch]

thats it?

pog

[balmy condor]

yeah

no prepull, hold for flag

that's it

[slow marsh]

i used your apl nerd

how did i mess it up i literally just copy pasted lol

[balmy condor]

you used an APL that changed mfd usage

without taking mfd

that means

you changed nothing

I could give you a whole set of APL changes for sepsis

but you aren't fae

so

won't change anything in your sim

[slow marsh]

oops

well

i'm good i promise

[gusty mirage]

[ebon notch]

@balmy condor the stat weights wouldnt change at all right?

haste wouldnt gain value or smth

[balmy condor]

haste would probably gain some value

[tacit otter]

@balmy condor do you think those results change anything about m+? or vigor still the go-to?

[balmy condor]

it's about 0.3% in dslice

super minor

[ebon notch]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/hG8xBMrWRDwH7qTf#fight=last

did a log using it

didnt feel that bad

honestly

[tacit otter]

so more of a feel thing i guess, thank you

[ebon notch]

i cant remember the last time i did remnant as ep/vig so i dont really have dps to compare it

[balmy condor]

what are you doing remnant with

[ebon notch]

i always do bs/ds

[gusty mirage]

[ebon notch]

:3

[balmy condor]

but like

why

[gusty mirage]

y tho

[ebon notch]

kinda like it idk

[gusty mirage]

fair nuff

[ebon notch]

why should i not be

[balmy condor]

cause it's worse

[ebon notch]

oh how come

i didnt know

[balmy condor]

it's not single target

[ebon notch]

i only ever dot up the balls though

i never hard swap to them

[balmy condor]

yeah

so it's not single target

[ebon notch]

igy

mb

[cerulean nest]

when do you use mfd in opener?

thats my only question lol

[steel ridge]

You dont play mfd

[gusty mirage]

hold for flag

[full tide]

mfd is one of the things I enjoyed from playing outlaw

fun to snipe in M+

[gusty mirage]

and then after that only hold if flag willbe up in less than 15s or some shit iirc

whispyr can confirm that last bit

[full tide]

I've tried playing all talents on that row in M+ as Sin

just feels bad not to play Vigor for openers

[gusty mirage]

it's about the same as vigor in dslice

this is just for ST

[full tide]

oh right

[balmy condor]

[balmy condor]

during shiv

would be shiv vanish mut env mfd env

[slow marsh]

you do now as of like an hour ago

[gusty mirage]

also when testing the apl changes make sure you test it with MfD

@slow marsh 😛

[slow marsh]

a;ldskfnaksjdhnvidapfvnadiofvhbpadfkvbn

[gusty mirage]

ily ❤️

[steel ridge]

Wtf

[gusty mirage]

blame vel

this is his fault

[balmy condor]

well

[steel ridge]

Lemme guess, some updated sim says mfd is 0.2% better and now all hell breake loose

[balmy condor]

you can blame

a lot of people

[gusty mirage]

last bit will definitely be true

as for the exact % I think its a bit more than that

[steel ridge]

Just like when KS suddenly outsimmed BR and everyone got killed?

[balmy condor]

people play ep/vig atm

and it's like

0.6% better than that

[willow eagle]

Nobody uses ks tho

[balmy condor]

0.8% at the top

[willow eagle]

Mfd for sin sounds really sweet tho

[slow marsh]

i play ks

get good noobs

[steel ridge]

sure

[full tide]

Man

I'm excited

[steel ridge]

Sometimes, the difference between trolling or meta is just an apl update

[balmy condor]

to be fair, it's only for venthyr

[full tide]

Obedience is fun, we'll not have to choose to hold or split with vendetta

[balmy condor]

and only because we play ep/vig right now

[zinc frost]

I go to bed and wake up to mfd being viable, you guys are mad I love it.

[cerulean nest]

ty ty

[balmy condor]

bs/ds is still better single target

[steel ridge]

so is Outlaw

[full tide]

I don't like how bs/ds feels

[steel ridge]

Keeeeeekw

[limber lion]

Good thing you don't have to play it then

[full tide]

xD

[balmy condor]

yeah but no one willingly plays that dogshit spec

[steel ridge]

I so play both

[full tide]

I don't but I'm just wondering if MFD will feel slow compared to Vigor

[willow eagle]

Would you use blindside for sylv? Assuming p3 damage matters the most

[limber lion]

Blindside doesn't work there...

[oak sky]

we arent playing nightstalker though right?

[limber lion]

It doesn't benefit from the execute of Blindside

lol

[limber lion]

No

[zinc frost]

I saw someone streaming outlaw on painsmith prog recently..

[oak sky]

still ep, and this is only in multi target?

[limber lion]

Yes, no.

[balmy condor]

did that look willing

[ebon notch]

was it a bet

[zinc frost]

Nah it looked like you were under duress lmao

[steel ridge]

[balmy condor]

chat said I should play outlaw cause I have a heroic veinripper and heroic sylv dagger

we were dps stopping anyway

so I sent it

[steel ridge]

good boi

[balmy condor]

I mean

I raged at my raid lead after raid and got benched for it

so was I really?

[ebon notch]

wait what

why did your age

[steel ridge]

[oak sky]

do you guys have more wipes on pain than kirbyau on sylv?

[ebon notch]

nobody does

[balmy condor]

cause I went 40 pulls without dying once while we just hard stuck p2'd on a fight that doesn't drop anything of value, and is the worst fight they've released in like 3 expansions

4 hours of just watching my raid run into spikes

[limber lion]

Painsmith is the best boss in the entire raid.

[balmy condor]

0 forward progress

no it's fucking not I'll ban you

[steel ridge]

Good times

[oak sky]

kt is so much worse

its not even funny

[willow eagle]

Painsmith is bis

[balmy condor]

I did 2 nights of slg prog as a trial

[willow eagle]

Also drops bis weapon

[balmy condor]

I would do 4 pulls of slg than 1 pull of painsmith

[limber lion]

It legitimately is the best fight. Just because your team is braindead doesn't make it a bad fight

[balmy condor]

painsmith is the most dogshit fight

they have ever released

since I started playing

[limber lion]

It's legit a really fun fight

[quasi ledge]

Sylvanas takes that spot

[cerulean nest]

lmao

[limber lion]

And has a lot of personal responsibility

[balmy condor]

I will die on this fucking hill

you can't convince me

[limber lion]

Like you said, you can go an entire raid night without dying once

[grim tangle]

paintsmith is bad in bad guilds, just the same people dying in intermission all the time

[limber lion]

Just because there's a venthyr boomie inting your team

[balmy condor]

painsmith is worse than slg

[limber lion]

It's not a bad fight

hell no

[balmy condor]

it is

100%

[ebon notch]

painsmith has the potential to be fun, but the personal responsibility ruins it

[balmy condor]

I would rather be progging slg

[ebon notch]

nah slg was giga dogshit turbo ass

[balmy condor]

than painsmith

[limber lion]

Pre-nerf SLG was the worst shit in the world.

[balmy condor]

give me slg back

I want it

I WANT SLG

[ebon notch]

it was just a buggy broken mess i hate that boss

[balmy condor]

replace painsmith with slg

I would be happy

[oak sky]

ban me for this

mad cuz guild bad

[limber lion]

Painsmith > Sylvanas

[steel ridge]

Remnants of a broken man

[oak sky]

sylvanas seems ok to me

but im not progging yet

[ebon notch]

i only dislike sylv cause o fhow long it is

[oak sky]

so i cant judge it too well

[limber lion]

I love Painsmith because it's literally a showcase of who's dogshit at the game and who's not.

There's always 1-3 people who die on every other pull

Then there's 1-2 dudes who never die

[oak sky]

totally

agree

[limber lion]

A dogshit fight is where your entire team dies to reasons outside of your own

[oak sky]

now don't check my logs

[quasi ledge]

Sylvanas can suck a dick, only a good fight after 8 minutes of boredem

[willow eagle]

It's also a technically tight fight

[limber lion]

Sylvanas p3 is the best thing in the instance

Too bad it's 5 minutes of pleasure, 8 minutes of pain.

[gusty mirage]

p1 and p2 are miserable on heroic, I'm not looking forward to it on mythic

[ebon notch]

on heroic theyre piss easy

just hit boss

dont get hit by things

[balmy condor]

ego check you me all you want, personal responsibility fights are the fucking worst cause it just means I'm sitting there waiting for the brain dents in whatever guild I'm in to not int themselves into oblivion

[limber lion]

Painsmith is super chill as well because it's 100% scripted

[full tide]

how many beers deep are you whispyr?

[limber lion]

Nothing is random in the fight.

Every single ability and timer is scripted

[balmy condor]

it's the most brain degenerate gameplay

I have ever witnessed

[ebon notch]

your guild mates inting is the randomness

[limber lion]

Like a fight that changes every single pull

like Artificer

those are awful fights

A fight that is 100% the same every single pull

Are lit

[arctic walrus]

amen to that brother

[limber lion]

If people are still dying to spikes 100 pulls later, they should get their wrists slapped.

[balmy condor]

tell that to my guild "oh shit the balls came from the other side, that's just rng I guess we can't control that"

[limber lion]

Sad that a bad group of team mates ruins the fight for you :(

[balmy condor]

"dps stop here or else the timings are fucked"

[limber lion]

wtf

[oak sky]

holds on painer

[balmy condor]

cev

I'm telling you

I was screaming at my raid lead

[limber lion]

I mean, I get it

[ebon notch]

did you clip it

[limber lion]

But I just hate my team instead of the boss personally

But I guess you just hate both

[oak sky]

poor whispyr

[balmy condor]

I spend 9 hours wiping to heroic sylv pugs cause I can't make our heroic clears in guild time wise. Hopium for a dagger so I can improve my char for big deeps. Pug heroic sylv for 3 hours again the next day before raid, show up to raid. "hey dps stop, your dps doesn't matter". LIT. Watch the same 6 people run into spikes for 4 hours straight. LIT. Look at loot table, some dogshit ring, dogshit trinket, and a veinripper that I would have to either trade away, or play an awful spec

On top of that

I hate the fight

I hate backpedeling balls

[limber lion]

I think the thing for me is that the deaths on Painsmith cause a singular wipe

[balmy condor]

I'm fucking malding out of my mind

[gusty mirage]

yep. NA guilds want to cheese an extra 2-3% before phasing to intermission

[ebon notch]

i think whispyr finna quit soon

[limber lion]

But failing a mechanic on something like SLG caused your entire team to wipe

[willow eagle]

Can feel you on the hc sylv pug

Succeeded to kill sylv on the 19th pug this week

[limber lion]

Like I can live with my venthyr boomie laying dead on the ground

[upbeat needle]

progging M Painsmith rn

major fucking mood

[limber lion]

Can't live when someone pulls a 360 noscope on SLG and pulls the Wicked Blade through the raid

But anyways, assa gamers

get ready for the mfd hype

[upbeat needle]

wym

[balmy condor]

can't live when the healers run into spikes

and then complain that there's nothing to heal

[ebon notch]

bruh people triggering the commandos at the wrong time

cause they wanted to pad

[balmy condor]

and then the idea is floated

[ebon notch]

so good

[balmy condor]

to 3 heal

[limber lion]

Our holy paladins were the worst as well

[balmy condor]

[limber lion]

is that like a common thing

[balmy condor]

I'm like yo

[willow eagle]

That talent sims slightly above with 0 resets right?

[balmy condor]

healers getting spiked

why don't we 5 heal

[limber lion]

Quite a bit higher

[balmy condor]

so they can focus more

on not dying every pull

[willow eagle]

So with resets

[balmy condor]

"oh but the p3 damage"

[willow eagle]

It's a ball

[balmy condor]

anyways

pin time

[limber lion]

[arctic walrus]

@balmy condor just guild hop bro

[limber lion]

i gotchu

[balmy condor]

lit

[limber lion]

there

[full tide]

I like my guild a lot but holy fuck the healers fall apart if they don't have 1 extra healer than is actually needed T_T

[arctic walrus]

-vel

[oak sky]

why so many words

[limber lion]

jk you can do it pretty boy

[oak sky]

why not just

mfd

[limber lion]

I honestly need to think about adding MfD to my scroll wheel

I feel like that would be a dank bind for it

[oak sky]

ive had it bound to shift on a mouse button

hopefully that works

[limber lion]

I also use a shift modifier but I'm not the biggest fan of shift modifiers on abilities that have resetting functionality

[oak sky]

hm

[limber lion]

Trying to snipe stuff with Shift+3 is not the smoothest

[oak sky]

yeah

i think mouse is pretty easy tho

even if 3 can be rough

[ebon notch]

mine is on ctrl 5

[oak sky]

so is new opener same but with mfd after vanish ends

[ebon notch]

and when i was on outlaw i had another mfd macro with dispatch attached to it

[willow eagle]

Cursed macro

[brazen zodiac]

@balmy condor

[zinc frost]

If you good bois didn’t neglect your pvp you’d have a bind for mfd ready to roll

[brazen zodiac]

hi ruptureered

[ebon notch]

play vigor

[brazen zodiac]

i did what u said and did 9.8k

!

[zinc frost]

[brazen zodiac]

most i ever did on SD :D

[balmy condor]

MFD Optimization
This is only applicable to venthyr. Other covenants would still play ep/vig.

There are 2 changes:

1. Do not prepull mfd into slice (Opener after the normal stealth stuff would be shiv->vanish->mut->envenom like normal, then mfd->envenom for the last second of ma)
2. Hold mfd for up to 15 seconds for flag

The gains are around 0.8% for dashing, and almost 1.5% for obedience. This makes obedience preferred again depending on kill time.
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fPYE61nH8RtBh1VENSxJCu

[brazen zodiac]

oh boy did i miss sometihg?

also what does mfd mean again?

[oak sky]

wait i have to make obedience now

[balmy condor]

marked for death

[brazen zodiac]

ahh okie

so this not applicable to me haha. that talent too funny for me to use >.<

was about to logon and smash that /simc >.<

[balmy condor]

time to learn

but also

it's not in simc yet

[brazen zodiac]

ah

[halcyon zealot]

crafting the 3rd 262 leggo for ST this tier let’s fucking gooooooo

[zinc frost]

If only those remnant orbs could benefit from mfd..

[brazen zodiac]

ive never used mark for death before. no idea how it works lmfao

[ebon notch]

i already have obed but its crit vers

my haste might get to dangerous levels

@balmy condor what kill times would be preferable for obed?

[oak sky]

this game sucks 🙂

[full tide]

same bro, I crafted 262 obe to play Sub sometimes

[red plaza]

Nothing wrong with crit vers obi 🙂

[balmy condor]

delete them

that 50 haste

is REQUIRED

[ebon notch]

see

[balmy condor]

cannot play without it

[ebon notch]

its a breakpoint

taht i will not lose

[oak sky]

time for torgy

[cerulean nest]

frost set without dashing sounds sad

[versed mica]

Wait what

Since when have we opened with shiv?

[cerulean nest]

he means after the other stuff

[zinc frost]

^

[balmy condor]

you know

out of all the things I thought people might get confused about

that was not one of them tbh

[versed mica]

Okay I'm even more confused now lmfao

[ebon notch]

you shiv just before you vanish

[buoyant mauve]

I thought it for a second, I must admit...

[versed mica]

Right

[ebon notch]

https://i.imgur.com/MhFnrvu.png

[cerulean nest]

@balmy condor if switching to Obe is theoretically better with mfd now, does that mean that frost set loses some of its value? since no dashing

[buoyant mauve]

but then I thought, that would be such a waste of combo points for flag so that's obviously not right

[balmy condor]

yeh

[hollow escarp]

that's what I thought at first, then I checked the raidbots report

[balmy condor]

BRUH

there's no way I'm the clown here

[hollow escarp]

well, idk

[cerulean nest]

so we going back to unholy then? (please for the love of christ no)

[hollow escarp]

it says "opener will be..."

[balmy condor]

there

is that better

[hollow escarp]

[balmy condor]

fucking

[hollow escarp]

I doubt anybody will actually open like that

[balmy condor]

top kek

[hollow escarp]

but it's just confusing at first sight

[ebon notch]

@balmy condor which kill times is obed more suited for tho?