assassination

[wintry mica]

Can’t believe I didn’t notice when I read the notes lmao

[ebon thorn]

ah

Black Rook Hold, Eye of Azshara, Darkheart Thicket, Vault of the Wardens, Neltharion’s Lair, and Court of Stars.

sad

[wintry mica]

Still surprised it would beat 252 guardian trink

Do you have relatively low crit?

[ebon thorn]

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/character/eu/silvermoon/Snowxd

[hollow river]

Be glad that you don’t have to farm another freaking trinket

[ebon thorn]

38 with gland

[fleet anchor]

Not actually having anything fun to do with all of these QoL improvements because they're spending the entire patch doing the QoL improvements they should have done a year ago. 😄

[oak sky]

lmao

[hollow river]

Haha

[oak sky]

.5 patch isnt for content tho

[wintry mica]

We won’t have as much to complain about either

[hollow river]

No new content ):

[ebon thorn]

252 SFA is 112dps over gland, but the EoC is 161dps

[wintry mica]

Which is like half the game at this point

[fleet anchor]

But the current content is kinda trash, and that's part of the problem with the 9.1 patch as-is 😦

We really gonna farm SoD and do Torghast and Korthia for another 6mo? I just don't see it lol

[wintry mica]

Yea but I feel like we knew we’d be without new content for a while when 9.1 came out

[fleet anchor]

People are basically bored with SoD already

[wintry mica]

It’s so much better than CN tho

[hollow river]

i would be too if i had killed all the bosses

[oak sky]

cn was gamer

i didnt raid mythic tho

[wintry mica]

Xymox made me want to kill myself

[fleet anchor]

SoD is too easy to be interesting to farm. Basically everyone is just gonna be doing sales for ages. lol

[wintry mica]

We had 4 hunters running seeds and they would fuck up constantly

[fathom flax]

Gland scales good though

[fleet anchor]

One note I'll say about simming the Legion trinkets though

Really not 100% sure they are gonna sim correctly because I don't know if they updated the older versions of the trinkets to have the new scale ID they added for non-stat trinkets in 9.0.5

[fathom flax]

Gimme a 252 phial, I’ll trade you one of my two 252 shadowgrasps

[ebon thorn]

yeh

[fleet anchor]

When they buffed all the non-stat trinkets by 10%

[ebon thorn]

considering they went from 900 ilvls or some shot to 50

sim scaling might be a bit whack

[fleet anchor]

If they don't have the right scale ID they won't have that new table value

[wintry mica]

I wouldn’t be surprised if blizz did something other than just scaling the ilvls up which is what I assume sims do

[balmy condor]

I mean

there's also no way they leave broken legion m+ trinkets

[wintry mica]

Yea anything broken will get found on ptr

[balmy condor]

stuff will get insta nuked

[ebon thorn]

wasnt theresome broken dagger for wotlk they had to hotfix?

or was it oversimming

[balmy condor]

there's no way

[fleet anchor]

Not saying broken, just saying they may be slightly undersimming

[fast hound]

also there is that cos 10% auto attack dmg ring

[oak sky]

fun detected

[wintry mica]

I forgot about that ring

[fathom flax]

I’ve tried simming it and the proc is only for level 49 and below at the moment so you will have to wait til it enters PTR

[balmy condor]

tbh I wish they kept all the legion and bfa m+ in

and you could just walk up to the pedestal

and pick a level

[wintry mica]

Wait

[fleet anchor]

Tirathon's Betrayal could be ok

Ring is gonna be no-brainer though

[wintry mica]

That ring is crit haste with 10% aa damage yea

[balmy condor]

ring is dead before the patch launches

[wintry mica]

Looks like there is something to farm

[fleet anchor]

It should be easy to get because it's on everyone's loot table

[wintry mica]

If it isn’t nuked

[balmy condor]

dead on my screen

does not survive more than 2 rounds of tuning

[drowsy hollow]

This is Blizzard, it'll get fixed 9.2

[fleet anchor]

maybe

[fathom flax]

10%->1%

[drowsy hollow]

Right after most of us farm it

[fleet anchor]

If they are too aggressive about nuking Legion M+ it's gonna be very counter productive

PR-wise

[balmy condor]

sure

[fathom flax]

Do you reckon they learned about rotationally available BIS items

[balmy condor]

but if they're not aggressive enough

[fleet anchor]

Like if there isn't any loot to get from it

Nobody will run it

More than once

for luls

[balmy condor]

they're going to have gear out there

[wintry mica]

At least we have 2 weeks to farm it if there is a decent drop

[balmy condor]

obtained in a 1 week time frame

that's never obtainable again

[fleet anchor]

It's up for 2 weeks

[balmy condor]

and that's honestly worse pr

[drowsy hollow]

The first time only

[ebon thorn]

but its rotational

[fathom flax]

Not everyone is gear capped from m+ and a lot people might enjoy not having to do SL dungeons

[ebon thorn]

next week might be diff set of dungeons

[fleet anchor]

I mean the first time is all that matters for that issue to some degree

[fathom flax]

Like plaguefall was alright the first 30 times but now

[drowsy hollow]

There's so many timewalkings you'll see only one a year basically

[fathom flax]

That’s a bit of an exaggeration

[fleet anchor]

I'll be easier to get that ring over 2 weeks than getting Phial to drop probably given how many people it drops for 😛

[wintry mica]

Someone did the math and it would be legion timewalking every 4.5 months

Assuming it’s just put in the rotation

[drowsy hollow]

But literally every melee and hunter will want that ring

[wintry mica]

If it doesn’t get nerfed before it goes live

[fleet anchor]

It's like a 23% chance the ring will drop

From every run haha

Since it's on everyone's loot table

[drowsy hollow]

It'll drop and the caster will be like, sorry, I need it

[fleet anchor]

I mean they were being passed out like candy in Legion

It was really easy to get 😛

[wintry mica]

Still think blizz will err on the side of caution and prefer things to be weaker rather than op

[fleet anchor]

Well I think that's why they are capping at Valor upgrade levels

Not GV

[drowsy hollow]

They deliberately kept set bonuses out of it

[fleet anchor]

It's gonna be 246 max

[drowsy hollow]

I want arcway

[wintry mica]

I guess with two weeks do we get tyrannical and fortified?

[fleet anchor]

Said they have their own affixes

[wintry mica]

Yea made it sound like it would be legion style affixes

So fort and tyrannical would be only on 10+

[drowsy hollow]

You know dang well they'll throw a teeming week in

[wintry mica]

Teeming court of stars

Fun times

[fathom flax]

Better than spiteful

[wintry mica]

I just remember court of stars almost always being a pain

[fleet anchor]

But anyway, I'm still kinda worried that like.. yeah they are doing all of the QoL that everyone asked for over the last 18 months in one go. And that's gonna help the game a lot. But not really the state of why people find the game meh right now?

Like most of those issues contributed to people being in a bad mood about this patch, but the 9.1.5 patch doesn't actually address why the 9.1 patch itself is kinda meh in a lot of ways.

[drowsy hollow]

Hopefully the dbm disguise code still works

[fleet anchor]

Proof will be in 9.2 really

And how quickly they can turn it around

[wintry mica]

True but I feel like this is way more than we would normally get with a .1.5 patch

[drowsy hollow]

I hope we get 9.2 ptr before Thanksgiving

[fathom flax]

Double legendaries and tier sets 9.2

Gimme dat

[drowsy hollow]

I still don't want tier sets

Unless they drop in m+

[fathom flax]

That makes no sense but that’s cool man

[fleet anchor]

I mean that's one way of looking at it but ultimately all that really matters is time passed and if people are having fun

[fathom flax]

Gimme power creep haha

[fleet anchor]

So the last patch cycle being slow doesn't help matters

[wintry mica]

For sure I’m getting burnt out on the grind but all the qol stuff makes me more excited for 9.1.5

[drowsy hollow]

What's strange for preferring m+ and not wanting to raid for big power increases and locking loot from being useful from m+

[fleet anchor]

I mean we're basically getting 9.1.5 after the one year anniversary of the game lol

[wintry mica]

Being able to fuck around with other covenants is something I’ve been wanting for a while

True

We also had COVID fuckin shit up

Have*

[drowsy hollow]

Still faster than legion or BfA system fixes

[fathom flax]

In Current patch you already have to raid for power, the dom shard set bonuses don’t work but the gems do lol

[fleet anchor]

For BfA 8.2 was already out by now, time-wise

[drowsy hollow]

The gems are super minor though

[wintry mica]

But hopefully we are pleasantly surprised by 9.1.5 launch date

[drowsy hollow]

Set bonuses usually aren't

[fathom flax]

Sure.

[wintry mica]

If you are talking purely m+ then yea the gems are minor

[drowsy hollow]

Yeah, it's part of why I'm against set bonuses unless they work in the raid only

Or they are earnable in m+ somehow

[fathom flax]

I don’t agree with your opinion that just because you can’t or won’t access it means that no one should lol

[fleet anchor]

Well I think they should have just made M+ items drop with dom sockets this season...

I don't really see why not

[fathom flax]

Dom socket is a bad system

But it’s what we’ve got

😦

[drowsy hollow]

Cause raiders want to be special

[fleet anchor]

That may well be, but it's the system for this season

And it was silly to make the two content sets totally different

I don't really think it's a raider issue tbh

Raiders would have been more than happy to be able to have useful GVs to finish their sets 🙂

[drowsy hollow]

A lot also say they want to go back to the only loot worth getting being the raid

[fleet anchor]

Just Blizzard putting minimal effort into the system

[fathom flax]

Hey 1.5k research is good from gv sometimes

[fleet anchor]

That's all tbh

System was just half-baked

[drowsy hollow]

I've talked to so many raiders who think they deserve better rewards than you can earn in m+

Simply cause one takes 20 people

[fleet anchor]

I mean Mythic raiding should definitely give better rewards than M+ in a general sense, but sockets or no sockets has little to do with that

[tacit wedge]

Where my EoC farmers at?

[fleet anchor]

That's just a reward structuring issue

[fathom flax]

2017

[fleet anchor]

to have such a binary difference

At least when they have the GV set up how it is

[drowsy hollow]

I am the type to think raiding is antiquated design and the game needs to move on from 20-30 man content haha

[fleet anchor]

Maybe but if you fully kill raiding in WoW, then we may as well just pull the plug on the game 😛

[fathom flax]

You don’t enjoy something so the rest of us miss out? Cmon mate raiding is fun

[drowsy hollow]

Raiding is annoying. Too many people.

[tacit wedge]

M+ timewalking wants to have a talk with you

[fathom flax]

Kara isn’t in the dungeon pool

[tacit wedge]

Malding

[fathom flax]

And tells me you were late to work today

[drowsy hollow]

When I'm leading heroic pugs on my tanks I cap my groups at 2/3/9 haha

[tacit wedge]

w0t

[fathom flax]

You said it wanted to talk to me

[tacit wedge]

Yes

[drowsy hollow]

Except for outlaw. They're malding

[strange python]

we are blasting in m+ as it is

i woke up with a boner ngl

[dark token]

Hot take, m+ and raids should have separate tier sets

Make a dungeon gear set with useful m+ buffs

[drowsy hollow]

If it's square root scaling uncapped is nice but not op

For assassination it actually scales deadly poison more than fok itself

[dark token]

I agree I think we should have 10 man raids, something like tazavesh or karazhan could be made harder and 10 man content dropping 252 gear

[violet hemlock]

And CP gain

Fok CP gain from it being uncapped is nice

[drowsy hollow]

If raid guilds keep dying eventually they'll go to 10 or 15m mythic

[vestal wren]

i wouldn't mind 10 man mythic raiding

20 man is fine too but it often feels like blizz could lift some restrictions

lifting some cross realm restrictions and maybe thinking about cross fraction play would make it easier to find guilds/players

[violet hemlock]

Problem with 10man raiding is u have like 8 required classes

[vestal wren]

thats a easy solvable problem, just make multiple classes have the same class benefits

[drowsy hollow]

Back to WoD woo

[flint raptor]

maybe back to the old "scrolls" system

weaker version from the classbuff itself

[drowsy hollow]

I like the flavor of buffing up before a raid too much to agree to giving them up

Rogues don't need the utility, but wouldn't be against them having an expose armor effect like monks

[willow eagle]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/dJfTctWozpzEkv6zXisSxk

seems like obedience is coming slightly ahead for me

[drowsy hollow]

Nice

Now find a Kyrian bear or tree and make them bind you only for another 1300 dps

[lethal yoke]

Are heroic and Normal Sylv daggers better than a 252 stitchflesh scalple?

[violet hemlock]

In offhand maybe

Sim it to find out

[halcyon tapir]

Trying to get a higher remnant parse... is it worth using a 5pt rupture on balls when they invulnerable just for the energy regen or just hit them with a garrote or low cp rupture?

[rigid tartan]

ive noticed that my best Sylv Heroic log by far is with Obedience. Its solid for sure

[wind totem]

I have a very specific quetsion that probably can't be answered but I will give it a shot anyway. With the aoe cap remove but abilities having a reduced dmg after X enemies. Will that affect Crimson Tempest DoT or just the initial dmg?

In wotlk there used to be a similar thing with all aoe with a target cap of 10 or so and rogues were least affected because our dmg came from putting deadly poison on everything with fan rather than the actual fan damage.

[feral wasp]

Hi guys, I have a question regarding warcraft logs. In this run I thought I performed good but still i got low parses. What am i doing wrong? I am the rogue named "Psyborc". https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/af6vqMVrdgPBpjHk/

[wind totem]

Looking at your guardian log since it's a ST fight and easiest to disect.

For starters you have the lower ilvl weapon in the MH, no idea why.
Your uptime of Garrote and Rupture should be almost 100%, instead it's 89.92% and 87.91% respectively.
You should be casting shiv on CD. in a fight that's 4:08 long you can have 10 shiv casts. Instead you have only 7.

Also due to fight length you can have 3 vendetta casts but because you delayed your first one until 11 seconds into teh fight and the second one by another 8 seconds, you missed a cast.

Same thing for Flagellation. You are holding it for no reason.

You had 23 blindside procs and only 22 casts of ambush. Also for some reason you are playing Vigor with Blindside. No idea why. You pair blindside with Deeper Stratagem and Elaborate planning with Vigor but you don't mix them up.

Your gear is also a little on the low side. Are you sure with your crit and gear that frost set and dashing sim higher than unholy set and doomblade?

[brazen zodiac]

yo me next wtf

[vestal girder]

3.4 exp lock LF big dam necro assa for 3v3 eu. dm me

[deft obsidian]

👀

[vestal girder]

h

👀

[feral wasp]

Thank you very much mate, your comment is very helpful. Gotta work on those.

[strange moss]

is dashing scoundrel good for aoe? and what missives should i be using when crafting it?

[pseudo hamlet]

I saw @balmy condor post about the 9.1.5 changes. But is the septic shock buff any good? I mean, can we speculate that NF will be comparably strong with other covenants?

[balmy condor]

Probably not

[balmy condor]

No, crit haste

[strange moss]

how come it sims highest in hectic add cleave on blood mallet?

sorry for the noob questions

[balmy condor]

Because hectic add cleave is a fucking nonsense sim type and I hate bloodmallet for using it

[strange moss]

haha whats a good sim to look at?

nvm pinst

[pseudo hamlet]

I guess dungeon slice on the raidbot 😄

[strange moss]

ty

[balmy condor]

Yeah dungeonslice is fine

Basically heres noob simmer tldr for fight types

Patchwerk 1 target 5 min - standard single target, can change to 3 min if you’re giga dps guild slams the fights

Patchwerk 5 target 1:30 - poor man’s dungeonslice if the only thing you care about is aoe and nothing else

Dungeonslice - Mixture of single target, cleave, and aoe. Good “overall” sim type, which is useful for m+

Hectic add cleave (HAC) - a boss with many low health adds spawning around it. Similar to horridon, phase 1 sire kind of, basically single target but with giga burst aoe thrown in

Cleave add - kinda useful sometimes maybe not really? Would be similar to something like eye, but isn’t really a good 1 to 1 comparison, super niche

Light/heavy movement - basically the same as patchwerk but it stops casting every now and then. Decent for seeing uptime-type things, but doesn’t really change anything in the evaluation compared to just doing patchwerk

[brazen zodiac]

just did a 17 with 3 rogues

im crying lmfao

[strange moss]

what's a good website for learning sin opener? i can't find anything up to date

[balmy condor]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[balmy condor]

Any of these are fine

[ancient rain]

I swapped to kyrian hoping I'll drop 100 dps like the sims but I'm on average 800 dps lower

[shadow tusk]

any legion trinkets to look out for when that time comes or is phial just king

[shadow tulip]

Why would you do that?

Kyrian pot is good, but I found ER to be really obnoxious to play

[ancient rain]

For sub pvp and white wings

[balmy condor]

Only thing worth mentioning atm is a ring from court that has an effect

[shadow tusk]

Aight, thanks

[tiny ember]

but where they all diffretn specs

[pseudo hamlet]

Any big-simmer would like to help me with Dungeon slice? I think that I am choosing right items, but not really sure if they're 100% the best(too many of them, did like ~5-6 sims already).
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4C9DSvkUcjUJ6LbfmXQjgL

[wind totem]

I don't understand what you need help with? The sim tells you what to equip.

[pseudo hamlet]

Yes, but I cannot choose every item in my bag because of the limits.

[wind totem]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jYMgeRY9hj3rDx55PTFdJb

here

i got premium

selected everything that made sense

nvm i simmed you patchwerk lol

[uneven summit]

what is the biggest sim we´ve had on assa so far?

[wind totem]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/mEXnsgCxpmGcZGBFAxt2TW

Here's your dungeon slice sim

[pseudo hamlet]

Thank you!

...as least you guys know who's to blame with high queues on the site

[wind totem]

Imagine having to wait in queue lmao. Get premium

[brazen zodiac]

2 sin 1 outlaw

i ran pure st talents by accident too

funny shit lfmoa

[feral wasp]

I get blindside + vigor higher than eb+vigor. Why do you think this is the case?

[uneven summit]

yeah patchwerk, was thinking numberswise, seems like im limited to around 10500

[heavy coral]

Why my sims are so shit https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/wzJfPZ14sX6jdLfRphVCNS

[vale marten]

how much crit yu got?

[drifting cloud]

I mean youre missing a dom socket, 4 sockets and set is r4? not sure how much you think you should be simming

[exotic rose]

Hey guys, how does Winds of winter works from the frost set? Does it hit your current target every 20 seconds? I thought it was AOE dmg but it doesn't look like it when I checked logs, always just one instance of dmg.

[drifting cloud]

its the last target you crit that it hits not current target iirc

[bold flume]

13% haste too low in exchange for 48% crit? sim says yes, but ill doubt on that 😄

[heavy coral]

41%

[vale marten]

yeh i guess its the rank 4 frost set then

[fallen arch]

‘Sim shit’ at almost 10k

Ask the bm hunters in your guild how they feel about that

[heavy coral]

Is the 4th dom socket so impactful really

[heavy coral]

Looking at other rogue friends, im pretty low

[fallen arch]

Yeah they’re also 10/10 mythic and rank 5 frost

[drifting cloud]

I mean if you had 5th dom, 4 sockets and r5 frost youd be simming over 10.5k

with the same items

or well not alot over 10.5 it would be pretty much 10.5

[heavy coral]

Should be getting r5 this week

[drifting cloud]

set is 300~, 4 sockets rougly 150-200, and mythic eye gloves should be around 100 dps

and 239 fusion amp is probably beaten by a few trinkets aswell for assa

[heavy coral]

Ok, what would be the shard to go, as 5th one

[drifting cloud]

bek

[severe rain]

Thoughts on aoe cap removal for sins in m+? I feel like zoldyk+crimson bleed and poisons on all targets should do some numbers

[fallen arch]

I wanna say hell yes but lets wait for tuning

[heavy coral]

@drifting cloud thanks man, helps alot

[severe rain]

I really really love sin but doing much better with sub in m+ atm, would love to see assassination pump in mythics

[rocky pecan]

how is that even possible ?

[wind totem]

I have a stupid question. How do I make the sim try 2 different potency conduits in the empowered slot?

[wind totem]

No idea. I just did a sim.

[rocky pecan]

just select 2 potency and sim will put best on empowered

and nvm for my quuestion first theotar is defensive so normal

[wind totem]

Doesn't work. it doenst think there are differnet combinations and i cant launch the sim

https://i.imgur.com/zQn0C8j.png

[rocky pecan]

youu selected only 1

oh

[wind totem]

?????

[rocky pecan]

y

select another potency

youu have no combination possible actually youu selected 2 potency for 2 potency slot

[wind totem]

well yeah

I know i want those 2 potency

I just want them swapped to see which is better in which slot

thats kinda my point

[rocky pecan]

y

select another one take 3 potency and start youur sim

you will see best combination with wps on empower and lashing on empower and you choose

you uwill have something like that

[wind totem]

yeha lashing empowered sims -7dps lol

thanks

[rocky pecan]

np^^

[rocky pecan]

y after -7 is kinda margin error

[fallen arch]

Negligable difference

[wind totem]

yeah i know

I fully expected this kind of result but I was curious nonetheless

[rocky pecan]

empowered slot arent that big difference tho so

[wind totem]

Yeah I know.

Like I said. Curiosity.

I literally care more about my empowered endurance and finesse conduits lol

shadowstep range for example

[shadow tusk]

what do you get like 1 yard?

[frigid wigeon]

With simming aside, what do you guys consider the best trinkets for sin rogue?

[shadow tusk]

phial + fusion amp

[idle star]

Fusion amp is a little awkward. Stupid 1.5 min cd. Buff its power and its cd by 30 more seconds :p

[pseudo hamlet]

It's cool with because Flagellation has the same CD 😄

[fathom flax]

Phial + Gland, the ultimate low effort gamer

[arctic hare]

lol

[subtle tundra]

man i hope they dont make fok and ct do normal dmg until 5 targets and then reduced damage, they are currently capped at 8 not 5

[loud silo]

fok is capped at 5?

[subtle tundra]

no

[loud silo]

oh nvm im dumb

[kind talon]

thats what will happen

lol

[subtle tundra]

that'd be dumb

[kind talon]

for every ability

including bladestorm, black powder etc

it's w/e

[subtle tundra]

its not w/e, that would mean nerf on 6-8t 😦

[kind talon]

[dire acorn]

did anyone play on PTR with uncap changes? do we know roughly what "REDUCED DAMAGE BEYOND 5 TARGETS" mean?

[fiery mauve]

Yeah probably an oversight since like a billion specs are listed

Or not

Tune in next week

[dire acorn]

was mostly interested to know how much damage % reduction the extra targets are at this point

[subtle tundra]

well, is ptr up with the changes?

[fiery mauve]

Afaik no PTR is not up

[dire acorn]

ah, mb then

[subtle tundra]

and if its like 10% reduced dmg from 6-8 targets, its not even that much dps loss, so i can cope with that atleast

cause poisons are a big part of aoe

that, and no more 2 cp foks on 20 targets, make me happy

[dire acorn]

yea for sure

[kind talon]

FoK uncap is good for spreading poison

past 8 targets

which i think is pretty sick

[odd heath]

Cp generation is the bigger winner with uncapped fok btw

[kind talon]

ye

kinda sick

[terse talon]

!ds

[prisma monolith]

Macroing Ambush to Mutilate only works with the use of a addon.
It comes with the downside that it often requires multiple key presss.
Suggested addon to use(Gnome Sequencer):http://tiny.cc/mxb6tz
Showcase Video: #assassination message

[hollow river]

i do not foresee this occuring

they want to retain players and give them what they've been asking for, not the opposite

but we will see

[dry copper]

how would 'reduced damage' work for CT? Just the initial hit reduced damage, or the dot too?

i would assume just the on-hit, which would make sin surprisingly good in aoe.

[strange python]

I can only imagine they will reduce the dot damage too

[hollow river]

It would be very complicated for them to reduce the damage of the dot en masse passed only a certain number of targets

We just have to wait and see what happens

[fallen arch]

They might have to tweak zoldyck numbers too

[hollow river]

hmm, maybe

depends on if they do reduce the dot damage, and how it's tuned. might not even be relevant

[burnt star]

Not that complicated: have ct bleed do formula damage bases on initial damage

Past 5 target

And like applying a higher cp rup. Have better ct bleed overide lower ct bleed

I do realise That one might be more complex..

[tropic ocean]

abilities dealt very reduced dmg beyond x targets in bfa too

so if they scale it similar

should be fine

[polar flower]

so is assass frost as well as outlaw and sub is uh?

according to faw

faq

[lavish lichen]

Sub is blood

[burnt star]

Uh/blood

At the very least.. sub is not frost. So might be good to sim uh/blood and see for yourself

They are close enough that if u already have 1 lvled up. U can still use it

[polar flower]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/82kDnJuuBb9euznJbmfkpk

thats what r4 is showing

it is an alt tho

just got both 3 uh and 3 frost

[alpine latch]

Ugh .. Another 7 PF keys last night and no Phial. I swear this game hates me.

[kind talon]

Gg

[lavish lichen]

Dw bro

You’ll get it

Then upgrade

Then get it in vault and have 2 like me

Ez

[alpine latch]

It's all I need for a 10k sim. I'm so close..

[harsh lantern]

U got this

[limber lion]

I paid 2.5m for my Phial. It's a bit rough :D

[pale plank]

Lmao don’t forget to try M+0

[slim pebble]

I got mine on m0 after trying 10 PF keys in one week

[odd heath]

I got funneled my phial in a guild m+ run lol, done with that purpose, for raid prog

First funnel run it dropped

[pale plank]

I got mine there and it’s a pretty good chance too compared to having a loot table of the whole dungeon

[gusty mirage]

[slim pebble]

Now I just need to farm totem because I don’t have a raid team to get M guardian

[dim estuary]

hey guys, could I have your feedback about assa for +15-17 keys with obediance ?

[slim pebble]

Are you asking if that’s the best option?

[narrow ravine]

Zoldyck is probably better for keys, but im not venthyr

its not tied to a burst window

[odd heath]

I'm playing assassin and going obe or zoldycks, testing.. they are doing pretty much the same overall

But I prefer zoldycks tbh

[slim pebble]

I’m necro so I just crafted zoldyk. Excited to try it out

[narrow ravine]

its more about if you want consistency or burst windows

[alpine latch]

You paid 2.5m to loot your own phial naturally... lol

[floral shoal]

I got my friends to go in with any char that has an agi dps loot spec so 5 chars could loot it. 3 runs and the phial was mine.

[alpine latch]

I'm just running everything 10+ that I can get into

[narrow ravine]

I just despise burst window gameplay, if you get picked for some mechanic or have to be out of position, you ruin that burst, consistent passive damage is preferred

[alpine latch]

I have over 5k Valor and I'm willing to blow it all on Phial

[slim pebble]

Especially in higher keys more sustained is the better play IMO

[limber lion]

Well, almost

I did get it in a boost that I bought iirc

[narrow ravine]

what else are you going to spend gold on...

[limber lion]

But I was the one to loot it, yes.

But I was afk for like 3 hours doing other things

So I don't mind

[alpine latch]

Ohhh, you did AFK runs?

Did you go through Starlight for that?

[limber lion]

I'm EU

No Starlight here :P

[narrow ravine]

has anyone done the estimates on the night fae buff?

[limber lion]

I'm a squadleader in Dawn

[alpine latch]

Damnit, I always confuse the one you sell through with Starlight. lol

[limber lion]

So all the boosting and buying boosts is done there

[alpine latch]

I wish I had the logs to sell heroic runs. I'd do it all day/night

I just enjoy killing bosses

[ember hinge]

Dumb noob question I couldnt quite see in the FAQ: Do I pop my finishers at 4CP if the only combo builder I have off cooldown is Mutilate ?

[alpine latch]

You finish a Cap or 1-Cap, always

[dim estuary]

Since i'm going to do more m+ runs the first 2 weeks, I should craft zoldyck first and then obediance when I start raiding ?

[alpine latch]

I went Obe since it's good for both.

Zoldyck is clearly better for m+ but it's close enough to not set me back

[narrow ravine]

go for the one you will use in all situations, then specialize later

[dim estuary]

Having Flagellation every 1 min looks so damn cool

Ok guys thanks I'll def go Obediance first then, since I wanted to play sub too it seems to be the best choice

[alpine latch]

If you're going Sub as well, I believe you make that Crit/Vers

If you're pure Sin it's Haste/Crit

[dim estuary]

on sub-faq they say this so I guess i'll go Haste Crit to optimize sin

[narrow ravine]

its not a ton of stats being a cloak

[dim estuary]

perfect then, thanks guys

[pale plank]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

The following is a general recommendation, but you will always get more accurate results through simming your gear
through Top Gear.
Critical Strike >= Haste > Versatility > Mastery
Note: Having a frost set equipped makes crit much better, usually making it your best stat by a good margin.

[chilly viper]

was there any op/decent items we'll be able to get from TW legion 🤔

[alpine latch]

Not really, no

[odd heath]

AA ring

[alpine latch]

If Arcway was in the rotation casters would have had a possible 2pc bonus

[odd heath]

52 dps increase for me

[kind talon]

The auto attack ring

Is quite insane

[odd heath]

Every other trinket is a downgrade

[alpine latch]

52 DPS isn't exactly "insane"

[odd heath]

It isn't

But I'll farm it either way

[kind talon]

I mean

[alpine latch]

Yeah. It's a small upgrade, but it's not what I would call insane like d just did

[kind talon]

It’s 10% auto damage for free on a ring

That has bis stats

[rocky pecan]

It's 3 dps increase the ring for me idk how it's even possible kek

[kind talon]

It’s flagged incorrectly in some places

[odd heath]

U can gear compare it on raidbots

[rocky pecan]

I have done with gear compare

Will retry later

[kind talon]

It’s not working correctly iirc

Doesn’t correctly apply

[rocky pecan]

Y need to see

When it will be on ptr I think

[kind talon]

Yeah

[alpine latch]

I mean, let's be honest....

We'll all try to get it

And if it's better, we'll use it

[rocky pecan]

We don't know

[odd heath]

It is better than any 246 for sure

[kind talon]

Depends if they keep the effect on it

[alpine latch]

But I doubt it will be insanely powerful

[placid pagoda]

got my first pink parse

[rocky pecan]

Cauz who know if they don't delete the bonus

[kind talon]

If it has the effect on it

It will be the best ring

[chilly viper]

just annoying legion m+ won't be permanent

[kind talon]

Ye

It is

[rocky pecan]

This is the real problem if you are totally unlucky

[chilly viper]

didn't they say it would be an event like on calendar can't read

[kind talon]

Yes

[rocky pecan]

It will be there for the first 2 week of release something like that and after idk

[chilly viper]

yeah

[strange python]

hi guys obedience or dashing scr

[chilly viper]

Dashing

but sim

need a lot of crit

[verbal mantle]

Sim your character and you will know.

[strange python]

i got 32

[rocky pecan]

Prolly not enough

I'm at 47 a'd it's 40 dps increase

Vs doom

[strange python]

hmm

how would i sim this exactly

[chilly viper]

top gear

first option under your SimC input

then click add items & you can pick the legendary you want to sim

[strange python]

thanks

[rotund moat]

Rotational question...
If you got garotte + rupture up on the boss with more then enough time left (raid) and you are building up combo points and are at 4 combo do you use mutilate to get to 5 and waste the extra points it generates or do you envenom already and then start building it up again?

[fallen arch]

FInish at 4

And I think u mean envenom

[rotund moat]

yeah sorry, envenom

[fallen arch]

U don’t ever wanna waste cp with mutilate

[mystic fractal]

do you finish at 4cp for rupture too, or like FOK to always 5cp rupture

[fallen arch]

Oof no, never fok pls on single target

Finish at 4

Shiv is fine at that point

Or garrote if its in pandemic

But u dont have to fish for 5cp finishers ever

#assassination-faq

[pale plank]

Is there a Wa that tells u when u are in pandemic window?

[spice spire]

Yes

Afenar’s does

And cev’s plater for multi target

[fallen arch]

Luxthos does too

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[fallen arch]

I bet Devlin’s does too

[echo geyser]

When u play dashing do u guys just press envenom last sec to extend the buff

Not even spamming inside haste buffs like lust etc

[kind talon]

U spam inside shiv and vendetta

[fierce hill]

Pretty sure you still pump during Vendetta and shiv

[kind talon]

And you pool outside of those windows

[echo geyser]

Is envenom same duration as EP?

[fallen arch]

Its longer I believe

[drowsy parcel]

envenom is 6 sec

or 7 with ds

and pandemics

so like 8 or 9

[echo geyser]

Oh envenom pandemics

Well i guess u dont have to refresh last sec always then

[fallen arch]

Nope

[echo geyser]

So maybe useless to even track envenom buffs on WA?

[kind talon]

Nah you still do

[fallen arch]

I wouldn’t say useless

But it’s not something I really am focused on during rotation

[kind talon]

Worth to delay it to pandemic instead of early refreshing

And it looks nice

[echo geyser]

So when is perfect refresh for pandemic

2 sec?

[kind talon]

2

Well

Between 0 and 2

It doesn’t matter when you refresh it as long as it’s during pandemic

Perfect refresh is a myth

[hollow escarp]

yeah, sometimes you have to refresh a rupture and envenom might fall off

[drowsy parcel]

i had 95% envenom uptime on a guardian kill the other week

[fallen arch]

Rather that than the rupture falling off

[echo geyser]

With dashing?

[drowsy parcel]

ye

[echo geyser]

Curious how much energy u got from lego

[drowsy parcel]

how can i see that in log?

[fathom flax]

It’s like 12%ish

Link log

[kind talon]

Check resource tab?

[drowsy parcel]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/drf9QpCKHwW2BX1g#fight=29&type=auras&ability=32645

[hollow escarp]

639 energy gained from dashing

[fathom flax]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/drf9QpCKHwW2BX1g#fight=29&type=resources&spell=103&source=5

[kind talon]

636 baby

Huge

[echo geyser]

Thats kinda hot

Venthyr?

[drowsy parcel]

necro

[hollow escarp]

nice

[echo geyser]

[fathom flax]

That is heaps

[hollow escarp]

cool kids club

[echo geyser]

I want dashing now

[fallen arch]

Necro db club

And imma stick with it

[hollow escarp]

I got both

[fallen arch]

Oh ye I got both too

But with ep/vig

Db wins for me

[hollow escarp]

I played a bit with dashing even if it sims lower

[fallen arch]

On all scenario’s

[hollow escarp]

same

[drowsy parcel]

dashing is like 100 dps higher than doomblade for me on single target

[fallen arch]

Does the gameplay change much with dashing?

[drowsy parcel]

i play doomblade on soulrender and fatescribe

[fallen arch]

It’s in my bags but havent put it on

[kind talon]

Should play doomblade on painsmith ideally

[hollow escarp]

idk

[drowsy parcel]

i did yesterday on accident cause i forgot to swap after soulrender

[cedar star]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/2hGbP1QzRraD6Jwg/#fight=23&type=damage-done&ability=1&options=2 filtered

https://www.wowhead.com/item=134542/jeweled-signet-of-melandrus?bonus=1826:1472

So am I crazy or is this passive insane. 130+ dps just from the passive with perfect stats

[kind talon]

And I think dashing is better soulrender and fatescribe no?

[echo geyser]

i want dashing on all

[hollow escarp]

dashing 5 dps lower

[drowsy parcel]

i think doomblade on ct bosses

[kind talon]

No

[drowsy parcel]

as necro

yes

[fallen arch]

Put speed on it

Win

[kind talon]

Dashing funnels

Into frost set

[hollow escarp]

so does db

[kind talon]

[fallen arch]

does it

[kind talon]

Yes it does

[bleak sun]

Hey with légion timewalking the court of stars ring Will be bis right ? (crit /haste /10% melee dmg boost)

[hollow escarp]

CT ticks are also below the frost cap so it also funnels

[fallen arch]

Oh funnels into frost gotcha

[kind talon]

Yeah you run dashing with CT

[fallen arch]

I read that wrong

[kind talon]

[cedar star]

Has to be

[kind talon]

So you have ct ticks and poison ticks

[cedar star]

It’s over 100dps for me just from the passive

[kind talon]

That are all funneling into frost set

Pogga

[drowsy parcel]

maybe

[hollow escarp]

yeah, but you also have big envenoms

[drowsy parcel]

im not convinced

[fallen arch]

Why are we simming shit like that

[hollow escarp]

from ct + sbs bleed

[fallen arch]

When it not even hit ptr

[kind talon]

It’s 5%

[hollow escarp]

10%

as necro

[drowsy parcel]

20%

[kind talon]

No

Doomblade with ct

[alpine latch]

Did someone say 34%

[kind talon]

Vs doomblade without ct

[hollow escarp]

uhm

[kind talon]

Is a 5% envenom difference

[fallen arch]

It’s 55% now

[kind talon]

Nothing else changes

[hollow escarp]

I feel that we are talking about 2 different things

[fallen arch]

Yes

Its kinda whatever because running ct also means fewer envenoms

[kind talon]

I’m just saying that just cause ur running CT on a boss doesn’t mean doomblade is the better leggo by default

[fallen arch]

Exactly

[hollow escarp]

so less envenom uptime

[echo geyser]

How unoptimal is it to run dashing on all fights as necro

[fallen arch]

U onow what would be cool

Running both at the same time

[echo geyser]

[fallen arch]

Db with dashing

[kind talon]

Yes but with doomblade leggo you maintain CT in singletarget, you don’t with dashing

[fallen arch]

Or dashing with zoldyck

[hollow escarp]

that explains my shit dps last week on soulrender

[fallen arch]

Ct has value tho there

[kind talon]

What happened kojack

[fallen arch]

Just means less boss damage

[kind talon]

I’m not talking about

Running ct vs running pb

It’s about whether u press the ct button when u have it talented

[hollow escarp]

on both kills I had the same boss damage, 8.2k

[kind talon]

Hmmmm

What was the difference

[hollow escarp]

didn't play dashing yet

will do it this reset

[kind talon]

Are you necro?

[hollow escarp]

it's 5 dps lower so all I need is like one drop of crit maybe

yeah

[kind talon]

Ye idk

[hollow escarp]

tbf, I'm on boss duty

[kind talon]

Dashing is more dps on soulrender for sure though

Dashing is still more dps

[hollow escarp]

just played CT for winds of winter funnel damage

[kind talon]

Because

You get CT and poisons critting for funnel damage

[hollow escarp]

envenom uptime kinda shit

[flat pike]

with the new target cap removal in 9.1.5, so will our fan of knives crimson tempest still hit for 8 targets, and reduced above that, OR will it hit for 5 targets now, and reduced above 5?

[hollow escarp]

based on the notes, reduced damage above 5 targets

[flat pike]

yeah ok that's what i thought, but looking at infexious gaming he said otherwise

makes sense though ye

[hollow escarp]

yeah

one of the cool things with this change is that we can get full cp bar now

with a fok

[flat pike]

yep

so i reckon crit will be valued less

also this seems like a nerf in places where tanks will pull 5-8 targets

[hollow escarp]

you still need crit, but idk, need to wait a bit to see how everything develops

[flat pike]

yea

[sick marsh]

Hello, I'm about to do my first sylvanas MM tries today. I'm simming higher atm with my outlaw build, but I can barely see ten outlaw in top parsers. Is there a special reason assasination is better on the fight ? Is this because there are tons of immune moments for her so assa can profit from vendetta bursts ?

[marble hemlock]

Vendetta lines up pretty well with the main singletarget DPS checks the fight has

You will occasionally lose uptime as well, whether its due to having to drop Wailing Arrows, spreading for Scream/Daggers/Veil or simply cause she disappears for a few seconds and teleports to a place outside of melee

But all 3 specs can perform very well on the fight

It'll mostly come down to how proficient and comfortable you are with each spec, as the fight has a fairly high requirement of individual mechanical skill, so playing a spec where the rotational gameplay isnt all muscle memory already might cause you to trip up more often than youd like

[sick marsh]

Okay thank you for all this ! I feel more comfy with outlaw because of range, but I sure can play assa. I guess I'll just do what is doing the most damages on the different tries.

[arctic hare]

I’m sorry, WHAT

Thank, god

[hollow escarp]

???

well, that's a given, the more mobs fok can hit, the more chances of getting crits and combo points

[arctic hare]

Good point

Still super happy about it

[marble hemlock]

assa is probably one of the specs that benefits from it the most

[iron orchid]

More cps, more poison applications too

[marble hemlock]

as most of our damage comes from damage over time effects that we apply with our initial hits, having those be uncapped will still greatly increase our aoe dmg potential on largescale aoe

[iron orchid]

Crimson tempest reduced damage above 5t is only for the initial hit right ?

[marble hemlock]

yeah

[iron orchid]

so we'll benefit a lot

[marble hemlock]

it was the same with stuff like seed of corruption in legion

i mean, the dot doesnt do a whole lot of dmg, but its gonna be nice, and further cement zoldyck as the go-to legendary for aoe

[iron orchid]

maybe will have an effect on sin best covenant for aoe

[spice spire]

Deathspike users in shambles rn

[marble hemlock]

the more interesting part would be fok hitting more targets, making CP gen more consistent on big pulls, while also applying DP to everything and proccing instant poison on each target hit

[iron orchid]

i mean fok uncapped means SBS kinda loses value

well Fok gains value where sbs doesn't

[spice spire]

Venthyr would gain aoe value then, yeah? Not that it lacks it with obedience, but even more so

[iron orchid]

I like venthyr a lot in dungeons nowadays, eventhough I've been kyrian for a few weeks now

[iron orchid]

well, that's what I feel is going to happen, but let's not forget this is only the first batch of adjustments

[marble hemlock]

ehhh, itd depent a lot on how things ultimately turn out. soulbinds will probably be more impactful than the actual covenant ability

[spice spire]

True

[iron orchid]

anyways we'll be able to swap freely

[arctic hare]

Imagine if crimson tempest gave energy like rupture and garrote does

[spice spire]

[arctic hare]

Lol, we have that emoji?

[marble hemlock]

you dont want that

it might sound nice at first

[iron orchid]

I'd feel guilty overcapping so much

[marble hemlock]

but we would want to multidot anyway

[spice spire]

That’s overcap nightmare

[arctic hare]

But why nottttt, though I guess we would be very oversaturated

[ancient rain]

It's not like having more energy than you need would make you not want to have it tho

[hollow escarp]

it feels bad and it makes your brain get used to "it's ok to cap energy"

which is bad

[marble hemlock]

the problem with having high energy sustain and easy saturation is that it limits our ability to scale into aoe properly, and can quickly devolve into gameplay that is just pressing the same 2-3 buttons again

[arctic hare]

Hmm, so havoc in a nutshell

[hollow escarp]

or sub

[arctic hare]

lol

Sub for me doesn’t seem all that bad actually

[hollow escarp]

nobody said it's bad

[arctic hare]

Though it is 2-3 button gameplay, true

I was thinkin in terms of energy oversaturation

[marble hemlock]

having CT generate energy would essentially just be a 0dps gain

on aoe, that is

[arctic hare]

So it is actually confirmed that crimson tempest will only scale down after 5 targets on the initial burst like what was just said?

[marble hemlock]

based on how similar spells worked in the past, theres no reason to believe that the dot of DP or CT will deal less damage if they were applied from hitting more than 5 targets

[subtle tundra]

we'd be just like sub!

[heavy coral]

Alright so, got 6 embers on me right now, finished shaping fate+ killed hc sylvanas. Clearing full hc tommorow. Is it still possible for me to get 44 embers this week?

[marble hemlock]

https://wago.io/QIYlD-Jsv

[heavy coral]

such a BIS person wtf

[marble hemlock]

You can get 61 max per week, if you full clear mythic.

[arctic hare]

Whoa

Thats a pretty dang good amount

[marble hemlock]

Each boss gives 1 per difficulty, so 1 LFR, 2 Normal etc. for up to 40 when 10/10M
Worldboss gives 1
Each named mob gives 1 on normal and another one if killed on HC, so 2 each for 10 total
You get 10 from weekly

[arctic hare]

10 from weekly, welp, my fault for slackin on those

[marble hemlock]

So clearing the full hc would give you 10 from the trashmobs, and another 27 from the 9 remaining heroic bosses

[hollow escarp]

so rank 5 frost next week

[heavy coral]

[stray mural]

I feel like my average overall in keys has been 15m/16m. I’m roughly 244. Is that average?

I really don’t go below 8.5k dps overall

[bleak sun]

Depend mostly of your tank pull /gear

[stray mural]

Well I’m in that LFG trap right now trying to find a group. I’m pugging 18’s to 19’s trying to find a group to go beyond

[bleak sun]

On 20'+ with 247 im around 10k/12k without the frost gem %dmg thing

[stray mural]

Overall? Sheesh

[bleak sun]

But coordination is the most important thing

[alpine latch]

So on trash in m+

Garrote opener for silence

CT -> Fok -> Rupture

I focus on keeping up CT and at least 4 ruptures, yeah?

Anything else is just envenom

[marble hemlock]

You want to maintain as many bleeds as possible, provided they run full duration

You dont really want to use Envenom except as a filler if everything else is already dotted up

If you do, make sure you cast it on whichever target has the highest remaining HP

[alpine latch]

yeah

I'm doing it right, then

Also nice to double check some times 🙂

[deft obsidian]

Have I been sleeping on 1 from world boss all this time? 😂

[alpine latch]

Probably, but so am I

[deft obsidian]

Not exactly game breaking but still, outside of the first 2 weeks of launch I never bothered killing ha

I’ve just finished frost and the journey of blood begins 🙃

[hollow escarp]

you can do it if you don't do Korthia as it's big % for weekly quest completion

[rocky pecan]

Il miss 3 ember for r5 frost kek

Or have to kill from raznal to kt mm this week hum

[cerulean nest]

im saving up for full r5 frost before spending it lmao if things change

[rocky pecan]

Change already occur

[hollow escarp]

rank 5 Kyr is good for progression, big self healing

[deft obsidian]

I did the same, just waited until I had the 150 I needed and jumped right now

[cerulean nest]

?

[deft obsidian]

Truth

[rocky pecan]

They already do chznge on gem set

[cerulean nest]

im not sure what you mean

[hollow escarp]

they can always revisit them

[rocky pecan]

I mean they already done change

[hollow escarp]

I got scammed and upgraded Dyz to rank 5 one week before they announced Frost buff

[cerulean nest]

which change are you referring to?

[rocky pecan]

Y they can always but still if you think like that you can okay without any set tho xd

[deft obsidian]

Thankfully was holding for full r5 unholy as the news of frost came

Dipped outta that bane ASAP

[cerulean nest]

yeah I spent everything on r4 unholy, then took a week vacation, came back to frost buff and I've been two weeks behind ever since lol

[rocky pecan]

I think we kinda all spend on unholy at start

[deft obsidian]

I wish they just gave us more quests or something now. Bang bang r5 for all

Play what you want

Rejoice

[arctic hare]

lol

[quaint carbon]

considering im playing the same way, what are the things that cause parses to be so much different from one group to another ?

[rocky pecan]

?

[quaint carbon]

like i always thought i was doing pretty much the most when raid guild, and parses turns out to be pruples mostly, sometime blue. and when i find myself in a good group i get close to 90 or 95

without doing anything more crazier

[hollow escarp]

mythic logs?

[quaint carbon]

nahh HC, so i know some class and timing changed stuff but that much ?

[hollow escarp]

I wouldn't focus on stuff you can't control

so try to find mistakes in your logs

that you can improve on

like missing shiv/vendetta casts, overcapping energy,cp

[quaint carbon]

yeahh i still need to get better at reading logs but igues you right

focus on what u control

[visual prairie]

good groups are cleaner, faster kill, better log

[strange python]

Actually kinda hilarious hearing other specs whine about rogue

[arctic hare]

lol

[stray mural]

Whose whining about Rogue

[wintry mica]

outlaw rogues are whining about rogue lol

[hollow escarp]

[stray mural]

Imagine pigeonholing yourself into one spec

[clear shadow]

with winds of winter im top healing dps in raid

[wintry mica]

do you guys not have any blood sets in raid?

[hollow escarp]

2k hps gang?

[wintry mica]

thats usually the only dps i lose to

[obtuse robin]

got a rank 1 nurzul healing parse on teusday

2.9k hpsd

[hollow escarp]

that's more than what my alt disc priest does

[wintry mica]

lol

i think the highest ive had on a mythic kill was like 1800 hps?

[hollow escarp]

I had 2144 on dormazin

[wintry mica]

i feel like you can get top 100 easy if you swap to leech poison and actually use crimson vial

[hollow escarp]

with rank 4 Kyr

[wintry mica]

i guess it probably depends on the boss fight

but my r5 kyr is usually only like 300 hps or so

[obtuse robin]

just spectheo

[wintry mica]

if you just said fuck your dps parse you could probably cheese r1 lol

[strange python]

People just whining that rogue is "easy" lol

[wintry mica]

just stand in stuff and pop vial on cd

sin rogue is easy

but so are most of the classes in the game lol

[slim jay]

which potency conduit do we want in the enhanced slot?

[hollow escarp]

sim it

in top gear it will show which one is best for you

[strange python]

Sin has an easy floor, but I doubt any other class saying sin is easy could put up a 99. There's plenty of room to minmax

[wintry mica]

yea sims do empowered, and the difference between which you empower is usually tiny

empowered conduits are also in the pins

you could say the same about any class though obviously you arent going to just jump in and be getting 99s immediately

[obtuse robin]

sure but

[wintry mica]

sin rogue consistently has the highest "floor" in logs though

[hollow escarp]

we are slowly turning into healers that flex with dps logs

[obtuse robin]

like do other classes have a easy base but then u add stuff like pandemic and pooling

[wintry mica]

i feel like pandemic is pretty basic but maybe thats just me

[obtuse robin]

in thoery it is

but then add when should do it

b4 this after that

[wintry mica]

if you look at mythic or heroic logs you can see that sin rogue typically has a higher low end and a lower high-end

[sick cairn]

assassination feels systematic to me

i guess thats how i can describe it with the pandemic timers and doing this before that kind of biz

[wintry mica]

yea, I think there usually isnt much ambiguity into what you need to do next

[halcyon zealot]

this is true for any spec in the game

[ionic kiln]

I play assassin rogue so I can raid lead.

[obtuse robin]

and then in m+ it literally flips on its side and now sin is the hardest rogue spec to play

[wintry mica]

yea I definitely lost less dps raid leading on sin than other specs would

thank fuck my rl is back now

[sick cairn]

dont fall asleep in the process

[wintry mica]

I always ragged on people saying their dps was bad because they were raid leading, but I for sure was making a lot more mistakes

[sick cairn]

same here, when I RLed for sire

my DPS DROPPED

[wintry mica]

yea I think the last two weeks were the first weeks my parses went down

[sick cairn]

i was usually topping in my raid, but they said RL is gone and i should do it

[tame sigil]

Remember when everyone used to say Sub Rogue was really hard to play but no one played it... Then at the start of the expansion everyone played it and its actually really easy :v

[wintry mica]

well its definitely easier this expack than it used to be imo

[halcyon zealot]

i mean lets be honest

there is no spec in this game that is "hard"

wow isnt a hard game

[strange python]

Idk about that. I'm not sure that warriors and DHs have a ton of maximization relative to others.

[tame sigil]

Its the same with people who said Vanilla WoW was actually really hard compared to modern WoW

[sick cairn]

i never understood unholy DK

[wintry mica]

there are specs that are relatively hard though

[sick cairn]

i just cant play it

[tame sigil]

Then what, some dudes 2 manned Onyxia?

[wintry mica]

vanilla wow was only hard because everyone sucked dick at it

[sick cairn]

nobody knew anything

its like dark souls

[wintry mica]

now people understand how to theorycraft

[sick cairn]

when you first go through it its hell

but on ur 2nd playthrough its pretty easy

[wintry mica]

true

[tame sigil]

Dark Souls is just about learning enemy attack patterns, I mean you get that in WoW. Do a Mythic boss first time it takes like over 100 pulls and then weeks after that you're just face rolling it

[wintry mica]

dark souls difficult i feel like comes from clunkiness though

at least the first one

[strange python]

I'm just tickled by people saying current outlaw is noskill

[tame sigil]

Yeah I was never a huge fan, it felt a little artificially hard because of the tanky controls

[wintry mica]

i love it

more so the later ones in the series and sekiro/bb

[tame sigil]

Like Witcher 2 felt hard but in a way that was more than just overcoming the control scheme and attack patterns

[wintry mica]

I dont think anyone can really argue that outlaw isnt the most "difficult" rogue spec

[sick cairn]

i love the souls games haha

[wintry mica]

and outlaw is definitely more punishing of mistakes than most dps classes ive played this tier

[sick cairn]

well its the hardest rogue spec to min max in keys depending on affixes as well

[tame sigil]

Yeah Outlaw doesn't like fuck ups

[sick cairn]

true true

[wintry mica]

no cap hardest dps class ive played this expack is ST surv hunter

[sick cairn]

if you fuck up durign adren

your next ADR is soooo long

[stray mural]

I mean what are the fuckups playing Outlaw? Not pressing BF and making sure to finish properly?

[tame sigil]

Yeah stuff that messes up Restless Blades will really screw you

[stray mural]

It didn’t feel hard

[obtuse robin]

survival is about to be the best aoe class in 9.1.5 by alot if they not careful

[wintry mica]

its just more complicated as you have different rules/priorities depending on rtb

and its punishing of downtime

[stray mural]

Carve, Bomb, Carve, Bomb let’s go

[obtuse robin]

yea that can be busted

[tame sigil]

Its like most specs though, looking on the outside they seem easy at first glance but then you have to master all their nuances

[wintry mica]

even if the cdr on carve wasnt capped to 5

there is 0 chance that would make it live lol

one can dream though

[sick cairn]

the minmaxing i have to go through for MFD good lord

mouseovering everything

had to relearn everything i once knew about the spec

[stray mural]

It’s not a horrible loss if you misuse it

[tame sigil]

The one good thing about Spiteful weeks are those MFD snipes xD

[sick cairn]

haha yeah

[obtuse robin]

but ill be ok with survival being op in aoe if there st is meh and really hard

[sick cairn]

especially if u mix in SBS

[wintry mica]

their ST is okay

but like actually insanely hard to play optimally

you fuck up like one GCD and lose a ton of dps lol

[tame sigil]

They're just very spammy, I think they're the highest button presses per minute class or whatever

[wintry mica]

I think last i looked outlaw was second highest apm?

[sick cairn]

is 1st fury?

[wintry mica]

prot pally lol

[tame sigil]

Mmn, I thought it was top by a fair margin but not sure

[sick cairn]

oh what

[wintry mica]

if you are going off of APM from simcrafts sims

[tame sigil]

Ha, thats why no ones playing Prot? :v

[sick cairn]

naowh does a mean prot

[tame sigil]

WW Monk not even on there cause they just press spin now and then >:C

not salty

[wintry mica]

how is arcane mage kyrian only 33 apm

i feel like when i played arcane in 9.0 it was faster than that

[bleak spoke]

missiles channel time

[wintry mica]

oh yea

[shadow tulip]

What's the command for Whispyr's lego sim?

It's not in the sims anymore

[wintry mica]

theirs a sim in the faq now if thats the one you are talking about

[bleak spoke]

it's like how subtlety feels way faster than that cuz when you're active you're super active and when you're starved you're afk

[wintry mica]

i mean sub is like 9th on the list for highest apm

62

most classes are between like 50-65 though

[shadow tulip]

Yea, thanks

[bleak spoke]

yeh what i'm saying is like during the active periods you're pressing a lot of buttons and when you're not you're not

like when you're burning on arcane you're slamming the keys

and relying on spell queue to get the globals out

[wintry mica]

yea similar thing with venth boomy

30 seconds of really high apm

then 2.5 mins of slow

[gloomy rose]

on soulrender mythic do we go CT for the adds or just keep the bleeds up and funnel boss?

[fleet anchor]

Sub is lower in practice though because a lot of the actions get macro'd together

[bleak spoke]

tbh playing classes with fixed globals feels so much more pleasant to me because i always get paranoid i'll lose time between casts and it's a horror

ah, i don't macro anything koji

[wintry mica]

honestly it depends on what your group needs, but you dont lose that much ST by running CT

[wintry mica]

also CT does not help you funnel the boss

it does not grant energy regen

[fleet anchor]

You play Sub without Shadow Dance macros? 😮

[bleak spoke]

other than backstab/ss on stances

[wintry mica]

I cant even play sin without macros

i need my pickpocket on all my stealth abilities

[bleak spoke]

uh i macro on use trinkets i guess as well

[arctic walrus]

[stray mural]

I use focus kick/kidney macros

I have an M/O blind

[bleak spoke]

oh yeah but focus macros are something different entirely right

i guess i have like /stopattacks on cheapshot etc

as well

but that's for pvp stuff

[stray mural]

I mean it’s just a shift modifier on my actual ability so F is kick and Shift+F is focus kick

You dont lose uptime that way

[bleak spoke]

ah i have mouseover set focus to t and focus kick to shift t

[stray mural]

I just use X for set focus. I really don’t feel like I need to switch my focus mid combat.

[bleak spoke]

my actual kick is on shift 3 and i desperately wish it were like, not on a modifier but i'm too used to it to change now

[fleet anchor]

#showtooltip
/cast Symbols of Death
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast [mod:alt] Shadow Dance
/use [nostealth] 13

So many APMs 🤣

[bleak spoke]

@arctic walrus ❤️

[bleak spoke]