assassination

[harsh lantern]

Eye was easy

as it should

But I’m worried for next boss haha

[hollow talon]

im like one night away from killing painsmith

we doing ok considering we started mythic 1 week late

[harsh lantern]

yeah I just started mythic last Sunday

Find my guild in a pug

[hollow talon]

next 2 bosses are much easier than painsmith

[harsh lantern]

Got invited after 3rd pull lol

[hollow talon]

guardian average pull count is like ... 10

and fatescribe is like 30

which is one night of prog

[harsh lantern]

I just wanna blast but we raid sat Sunday

Snooze all week

[hollow talon]

so hopefully we will be 8/10 by the end of the week

[harsh lantern]

U got it 🙂

[hollow talon]

hope i get fisting weapon from painsmith

[harsh lantern]

My friend got on his alt dh in weekly quest yesterday

He had like green weapon on xd

[hollow talon]

idk if i really believe outlaw being top single target but i gotta try it to see it myself

but i think you need the painsmith fisting weapon + sylv dagger and some bis gear to achieve those results

[harsh lantern]

for sure

[cedar star]

You do

[harsh lantern]

It’s done with bis gear in the sim

[hollow talon]

cause i dont really see many outlaws in the parse rankings so i think you really need those pieces

for those results

i do miss playing outlaw tho played it all last tier

you kinda get carpel tunnel but its fun

[harsh lantern]

I’m really enjoying the 35apm sleeper spec

[hollow talon]

yeah i dont finish raids with wrist pain anymore lol

[winged basin]

My RL discovered I have been applying to other guilds

[hollow talon]

how did they find out ?

i always feel a little bad searching for new guilds while im still in a guild

[winged basin]

I wasn’t watching my mouth and an officer was in chat when I said I got a response on an app

[hollow talon]

feels like going on dating app while in relationship

maybe not that extreme

but like job searching while still having ajob

[harsh lantern]

[hollow talon]

what are they gonna do... sit you for trials like they're already doing?

[winged basin]

but I got sat for mythic reclear and am gonna lose out on remnant vault loot this week cause of it. RL said his original roster had me on it but the GM made him bring 2 dhs in to fight against each other

[hollow talon]

[hollow talon]

this sounds like the dumbest thing i've ever heard of

you might be better off without that guild lol

[fallen arch]

Toad

[winged basin]

I popped off after raid yesterday. Linked the GM the grey parsing mage that they had in trialing in my place, and told him no way you were in a healthy state of mind to trial this person over bringing me :p

[fallen arch]

What’s keeping you in there atm?

[winged basin]

Waiting on apps

[fallen arch]

Ah right

[winged basin]

and I like some of the folks I raid with

At this point it’s a progressive meme it’s funny

[fallen arch]

Are you in EU?

[winged basin]

Negative, US

I wish I was EU, seems like a better community

[fallen arch]

Think twice

We have Russians and French ppl

[kind talon]

idk man most ppl who play this game anyways are notsmart

[winged basin]

Oh no lol

[kind talon]

also

[winged basin]

I have French Canadians!! A lot of them in my guild too

[fallen arch]

No offense

[kind talon]

ppl hate rogues

just how it is

[fallen arch]

Yeah they do

[kind talon]

unless ur applying and getting into like

top500 + guild, chances are that they have a thing against rogues

for no reason

because we are a "dps only class" with "no raid utility"

[fallen arch]

But there’s no denying rogues are super valuable this tier

[winged basin]

They brought in the other rogue and funneled him like 3 pieces

[fallen arch]

To have at least one, cos of tuning

[kind talon]

depends on the guild

honestly

[winged basin]

He just got frost set bonus so he’s almost caught up to me, still pumping on em tho

[fallen arch]

Our cleave and st is just too good to ignore atm

[kind talon]

some ppl still hate rogues / melee

for no reason

cant change their mind

[fallen arch]

Ye ofc but that’s their problem

[kind talon]

ye

[winged basin]

I just don’t have a sylvanas kill so no good log for it

that looks meh

[kind talon]

how do u not have a sylv killl

[fallen arch]

That’s explainable

[winged basin]

I wouldn’t accept an app from someone who hasn’t guild heroic sylvanas for a ce guild

[kind talon]

idk i got into a ce guild with 0 mythic prog

[fallen arch]

That’s small minded

If you have 9/10 with an avg of 97 parses

[kind talon]

@fallen arch bro i couldve gotten rank 1 heroic sylvanas parse today

but the pug didnt have

monk

[fallen arch]

I bet your ass they’ll have you trialling

[kind talon]

and no enhance shaman either

[fallen arch]

If I wouldn’t have been a fat fingered twat I’d have Ceverion’s parses too

[kind talon]

so fucking pissed

[fallen arch]

But shit be like that

[kind talon]

🔫

[fallen arch]

Rip 😂

[winged basin]

I only have 90 avg rn cause my shitty KT log

[fallen arch]

What’s your r.io?

[winged basin]

1964

[fallen arch]

Pump that up too

[fast nacelle]

Ppl care too much bout of parses

[kind talon]

mythic parses are a meme

[fallen arch]

I’m for sure that’s also a deciding factor

[kind talon]

heroic parses kinda matter man

[fast nacelle]

Do they

[fallen arch]

Oh yes definitely

[kind talon]

i mean

[fallen arch]

But it’s a parameter on which you can value someone

[astral plover]

What is it that makes Dashing so good?

[kind talon]

if you're parsing grey/green on every boss in heroic you probably shouldnt be in a CE guild

[winged basin]

I def care about parsing

I care too much about it sometimes

And my mythic parses are meh

[harsh lantern]

Parsing is only fun left

game sucks

[quaint carbon]

hmm would that be normal than 246 IQD sims higher (like 20 dps ish) than a 246 totem ? thought totem was rly good

[fast nacelle]

the issue are not the parses nor the player who focus too much on the parses
the issue is that the averague top 100-10000 guild only takes high parse guys

[kind talon]

ye

its fine

[kind talon]

id say 100-1000

top 10000 guild is progging normal rn

lmao

[fast nacelle]

nah.. the worse the guild the more expectation of the officers

[quaint carbon]

i got 246 IQD and i was wondering if it was worth spending Valor to upgrade my totem

[fast nacelle]

i got friends who are declined by world 3-5k guilds bc they play off meta

like feral.. (he s very good on it.. for his casual level... but its feral so he got declined)

[kind talon]

ppl get declined by world 3-5k guilds for any reason

because those guilds are bad

[limber lion]

This is honestly very, very far from r1.

[kind talon]

and don't have good logic

[limber lion]

115 allstar points is a lot.

[fast nacelle]

they are bad cause the officers are bad

[limber lion]

A monk/Enha won't make the difference.

[fast nacelle]

to most extend you decide as officer how good/bad your guild is long term
most officers dont realize that

[kind talon]

probably wouldve been like r2

[fast nacelle]

cause they suck

[winged basin]

We are a 810 region guild now, we were 1536 region last tier

My goal is like a top 500 guild

[kind talon]

nvm @limber lion wouldve been like rank 3

gg

[limber lion]

Out of curiosity

[winged basin]

but I need to go in with a group and just pump

[limber lion]

Why are you looking at region rank?

[winged basin]

idk, ain’t that what everyone looks at?

[limber lion]

No.

I don't know of anyone who actually looks at region rank, instead of world rank.

[fast nacelle]

its really hard to find a guild where you feel happy to stay

[limber lion]

I mean you're free to do whatever you want and compare yourself to whatever you want.

But haven't heard of someone looking at region rank properly before :P

[fast nacelle]

i know many people who have struggle to find a guild without drama/ppl leaving every 2 weeks

[winged basin]

I was under the assumption people wanted to be in the higher guild for your region

[limber lion]

Some people want to be higher on ladder

Regardless of what section you categorize it in.

Region, world, realm, whatever.

But normally people just look at world rank.

Not region/realm.

[slim wagon]

I read that a lot in reddit about "us rank x" which to me means absolutely nothiong as metric ^^

[kind talon]

world rank is just the best way to look at how good your guild is

[winged basin]

Hmm, will start looking at world then

[kind talon]

region rank is OK

realm rank is actually meaningless

unless you're looking for a guild and dont wanna xfer servers

[winged basin]

Top 500 might be a bit too good then

[hollow talon]

this was my story every raid week it was a struggle

at least this tier we do good single target

[ruby birch]

Realm rank is decent for looking for guilds on your own realm

[kind talon]

🙂

[winged basin]

Cause we 2692 world

[kind talon]

ya thats what i said

[ruby birch]

Region rank is more useless than realm rank imo

[slim wagon]

region rank means nothing, I had realm first ragnaros in vanilla only we were a few months behind every other realm cause everyone was horrible in that server

[gusty mirage]

That’s not terrible there’s a lot of guilds out there

[hollow talon]

tbh last raid before assa buffs there was little reason to bring rogue

outlaw didnt do as good as other cleave specs

[limber lion]

Probably not a CE guild then?

[hollow talon]

and no utility

[harsh lantern]

I quit rogue for monk last tier

[limber lion]

Maybe you should aim to get to a CE guild first :P

[harsh lantern]

Ww was free

[gusty mirage]

[harsh lantern]

just can’t stand that downtime

[hollow talon]

it was a struggle and a half to get raid spot in more competitive guilds

[ruby birch]

WoW is plagued by "meta" where guilds like to take meta classes and specs regardless of the fact that they don't know how to utilize them

Which is why rogue struggled in 9.0

[limber lion]

Been working out pretty well for me.

[hollow talon]

this tier rogues are doing a lot better

last tier was a struggle @limber lion

[limber lion]

That's true.

[kind talon]

cev just pwned you man

gg

[limber lion]

CN was awful for rogues altogether.

I wasn't benched because my guild in CN was not the best.

[hollow talon]

[limber lion]

Like wr 800 or something.

But I definitely would have been benched in my current guild

[ruby birch]

I wasn't benched because we prefer skillful players rather than meta classes

[hollow talon]

ya i started in a lower guild

[kind talon]

"my current guild"

[gusty mirage]

[kind talon]

ceve just flexing

[hollow talon]

but as i changed guilds and moved up the ranks i got more and more bench

[kind talon]

on everyone

[ruby birch]

I was still forced into sin tho cuz sub sucked ass

[hollow talon]

[kind talon]

[limber lion]

I've yet to see bench personally.

[kind talon]

method btw

[limber lion]

Maybe that'll happen next tier

Maybe not.

[kind talon]

no shot

[gusty mirage]

Tbh same

[kind talon]

ceve

u will never see bench

ez clap

[ruby birch]

Feint tier set returns next tier with infinite soak mechanics

[limber lion]

Wouldn't be so sure about that.

[hollow talon]

as long as rogues have good single target they will see raid spots

[gusty mirage]

But I’m also not in a super hardcore guild

[lavish lichen]

Play buff class ez no bench

[hollow talon]

last tier was bad cause sin and sub were meme specs

[limber lion]

Not getting lucky with rng gear and bad tuning will destroy any rogue.

[lavish lichen]

Cev the warrior main

[hollow talon]

and outlaw wasnt as good as other cleave specs

[kind talon]

then you will play warrior

[winged basin]

CE goal oriented?… idk when I joined my goals were to get Castle Nathria CE and then we got to sludgefist guild started losing members so we merged and that was the end of our prog

[kind talon]

[winged basin]

I wanna get CE so bad this tier

[harsh lantern]

You can ez bro

Blizz gives you a tear

Year*

[limber lion]

Yeah, I think you should make that your primary goal first

Before aiming for top 500 or something.

[hollow talon]

this tier should be one of the easier ones

[limber lion]

Small steps at a time.

[gusty mirage]

don’t you say that about our boy

[hollow talon]

last tier was rough with SLG

[ruby birch]

You've got time

[slim wagon]

when doing dungeons as assassin, do you spam fok for combo points at 5-6+ targets or? When do you drop mutilate from rotation

[winged basin]

Full sends only

[kind talon]

if rogue gets dumped on cev will be a warrior guarantee

gg

[gusty mirage]

At 4+ targets fok becomes your primary builder r

[ruby birch]

On 4 or more targets u fok

[kind talon]

and then i'll have to go to Skyhold discord to interact with him

[runic maple]

Closest my guild got last tier was start of p3 slg kek

[limber lion]

Incorrect.

[kind talon]

oh?

[limber lion]

I will either play rogue or be benched, those are the 2 options for me.

[ruby birch]

Why

[kind talon]

fuck yeah cev

❤️

[ruby birch]

P3 SLG is when the fight ends

[hollow talon]

i tried playing mage last tier cause rogues werent doing so hot

[runic maple]

We just ran out of time

[ruby birch]

Like p3 is a joke

[hollow talon]

that shit SUCKS

[ruby birch]

That's sad

[slim wagon]

Ok thank you both.

[runic maple]

Yh

[lavish lichen]

How many rogues does method have?

[ruby birch]

I thought u meant disbanded

[lavish lichen]

Like mains I mean

[limber lion]

Well, I'm the only real rogue main afaik

[half tartan]

Old guild GM made an analysis that a lot of good people in lower ranked guilds do not apply to higher ranked guilds because of fear of rejection and anxiety

[lavish lichen]

Ohh that’s lit

[limber lion]

But one of the officers does play a lot of rogue

But apparently he's not a super tryhard rogue main like me, I think?

[hollow talon]

gotta do it just like dating apps

swipe right on everyone

[limber lion]

I'm not 100% sure of what's going on in there yet

And who plays what

[lavish lichen]

Gotcha makes sense

[limber lion]

The officer rogue does have 2 mythic Sylv daggers though

So...

[lavish lichen]

Just press buttons

[half tartan]

I've given up on dagger dream

[lavish lichen]

Daggers are a crutch

[manic pebble]

you can only get 2 renown this week?

[limber lion]

Yes

[lavish lichen]

ALSO

[manic pebble]

shame

[gusty mirage]

Had a buddy who trialed for club camel and he crumbled under the pressure kinda. He died to a lot of avoidable mechanics on fights he’s never really seen. That level is just a different environment

[lavish lichen]

Means you gonna get traded dagger now EZ

[limber lion]

Yeh maybe

[runic maple]

I have accepted my fate as being one with the no sylv dagger squad

[lavish lichen]

Going from watching a video

[limber lion]

Still a pretty rare drop and would require for both of us to be in the same group

[lavish lichen]

To reading the journal

Is a large step

[gusty mirage]

I wonder if this is the tier I get CE

[lavish lichen]

This is the most free CE I’ve ever seen

[gusty mirage]

Freer than nzoth?

[lavish lichen]

Imo yes

Nzoth was scaling higher over time

[odd heath]

Nzoth was free later in the patch

[lavish lichen]

You get dom bonus in a couple weeks

[gusty mirage]

Well if this tier lasts as long as the last 2 tiers it should be pretty good to go

[lavish lichen]

And smash everything

[ruby birch]

Emerald ehm night ehm ehm mare

[lavish lichen]

Also there will likely be delays from everything going on at blizz (that’s just a guess tho)

[cerulean nest]

declined this guy from a group bc he was 216 ilvl

[ruby birch]

Ragnaros

[lavish lichen]

EN was an anomaly

[gusty mirage]

Jesus

[winged basin]

I wonder what that’s like

On a plus side, by the time I get the dagger I’ll be able to use it in time walkers!

[final tree]

can you get sylv dagger from the heroic 4 weekly dungeons cache?

[winged basin]

Yes!

[naive wigeon]

So I got a Phial out of my vault that I know is supposedly really good for us, do I try and play around the stacks and my shiv window or do I just let it do it's thing and not care much about it?

[limber lion]

Shiv does not affect phials' damage.

[final tree]

thanks

[limber lion]

You don't do anything with Phial.

It's just free, passive damage.

[naive wigeon]

Oh I thought it did

Because shiv increases nature damage, and nowhere does it say it wouldn't

[limber lion]

That's the problem with Blizzard tooltips

They're not always correct

Or they lack critical information.

[lavish lichen]

Don’t the majority of class abilities not interact with trinkets and such?

[limber lion]

Yes.

Most abilities do not affect trinket damage

[naive wigeon]

Fair enough lol, I just remembered that Infernal Cascade synergized with the Kael'thas and Denathrius trinket on a fire mage back in 9.0 so I just kinda assumed this would be the same

[alpine latch]

Blizzard finally learned about allowing trinkets to be buffed when trinkets were just 1-shotting everything back in Cata/MoP 😂

[sinful flicker]

Does anyone know if Dashing and frost set are still pretty decent?

[clear shadow]

yes with high crit and gear @sinful flicker

[half tartan]

made the switch r4 frost was pretty big at 41 crit 245 ilvl

[sinful flicker]

how high crit are we talking about?

[civic trellis]

Haha lol

[strange python]

Hey rogue pros, I recently switched from DH to Rogue, and on the DH discord they maintain a spec guide that is more thorough than what is on wowhead or icy veins. Is there something like that here? If not, what is generally considered the best guide on all things assassination?

[gray pond]

Where can we learn the damage calculation of skills?

[gloomy rose]

check the FAQ channel here and the pins in this channel, should contain most of what you need

otherwise ask

[red plaza]

Usually 40%+, but there’s no magic number. Best you can do is sim yourself

[alpine latch]

Rogues have a LOT of resources, but ultimately the guides and SimCraft updaters for Rogues are in Discord. Read the guides, keep an eye on pins, and skim through the chats here and you'll learn a ton.

[pale plank]

!guides

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[pale plank]

All good resources

Check pins or on #assassination-faq

[strange python]

Thanks everyone

[old summit]

!def

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Defensives usability: http://tiny.cc/q602uz

[abstract flicker]

hmm simms telling me to go r4 frost set over r4 unholy now with doomblade. it says should be 200-300 dps gain but idk i did like 1k less on KT and 1k less dps on sylvanas? do i have to watch a specific playstyle that differs from unholy or where is my dmg gone`?

or is frost really FULL ST (guardian like) playable and better

[cedar star]

Frost with Dashing in my case is bis both ST and at every size of AOE

[pale plank]

Me too

[cedar star]

And the survivability difference is so huge that unholy is sad

[harsh lantern]

^

[pale plank]

Oh that’s the best thing that came with frost, HUGE shield

[misty bough]

sup boys! is 62 renown max today?

[hollow river]

There could be soooo many factors causing your dps to be lower

[harsh lantern]

Frost set makes heal parse

Just a tank

It’s nuts

[thorny pond]

frost and token is a healer basically

[harsh lantern]

yeah lmao

[hollow river]

We’re you in a pug? Did you have all the same raid buffs? How similar were the fight time lengths? Etc...

[thorny pond]

@abstract flicker link some logs

[hollow river]

On kt and sylv if unholy procs during cleave/aoe then that is more damage

Check boss damage maybe

[harsh lantern]

Yes

[misty bough]

ty

so next week is empowered conduit?

[ashen fulcrum]

You mentioned token are yall raiding with theotar?

[harsh lantern]

for nadja

[thorny pond]

this week

just not potency

[misty bough]

i thought it was 63?

[harsh lantern]

no I’m not

[ashen fulcrum]

Nadja is 63

[harsh lantern]

nadja in raid

just saying token is nuts

[ashen fulcrum]

Yea I love it for m+

[thorny pond]

Theo is a -11 DPS loss for me in general, a gain with crit tea, so I take him regardless since the defensive gain is huge

[pale plank]

For KT fight, i got down in the phylactery Bcz of my ST, so I do almost aoe on that fight

[ashen fulcrum]

That accretion and the empowered SnD is far healing

[kind talon]

[pale plank]

So u will probably do more with frost in that case

[harsh lantern]

I like when fatal flaw procs and crit is like 65%

[kind talon]

frost does more in aoe

[misty bough]

well-placed steal is gonna be the empowered one right

[pale plank]

It does?

[misty bough]

i dbout lashing is better

[kind talon]

lashing

[harsh lantern]

or lashin

[kind talon]

[ashen fulcrum]

Lashing scaaaars

[pale plank]

Even when I am full ST spec?

[misty bough]

I doubt lashing is gonna be better

[abstract flicker]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/eredar/cassey#difficulty=4&boss=2422 4.8 & 11.8 unholys r4 set today frost r4

[harsh lantern]

I got 252 well placed

So I’m doing lashin

cause mine sucks

[misty bough]

i think everyonen got a 226 lashing

[kind talon]

yes because it is funneled by all of the bleeds you have on every target

and poisons as well

[misty bough]

maybe someone got lucky and got it to 239

[harsh lantern]

Not me XD

I could go kill M sire real quick

I haven’t done anyone conduit farm

[ashen fulcrum]

Now that we prio spec specific conduit upgrades its unlikely to upgrade right?

[misty bough]

its gonna be what

5% damage

and it does what

5k?

I just doubt lashing is gonna be the one to empower

[kind talon]

bro

what

[harsh lantern]

lashin gives the 🥤

[kind talon]

lashing is sin's best conduit by far

wps sucks

[misty bough]

I assume empowering it is gonna increase the initially damage

which is low as fuck

[ashen fulcrum]

It just raises the effective ilvl of the conduit

[misty bough]

which is initiall damage

[ashen fulcrum]

When you look at the sim comparisons for the conduits it has big jumps for each tier towards the end

[kind talon]

ok

[pale plank]

Damn, well my RL might still need my down there Bcz the other melee is a monk and DH, I get destroyed in aoe situations

[kind talon]

@misty bough

[thorny pond]

If it is your #1 conduit without empower, it will be with it

[ashen fulcrum]

Its all lash damage I think

[kind talon]

let me show u something

u gain .23% damage from empowering wps

[misty bough]

u got a pic for lashing aswell? 😄

[kind talon]

u get .5% from lashing

[ashen fulcrum]

B U F F

[kind talon]

[misty bough]

POG

tyvm

[pale plank]

Lmao my lashing scars is at ilvl200 hopefully now after this week patch I can get one to drop a lot faster

[kind talon]

just farm korthia stuff.

[kind talon]

you can get it to 226 for free

from the items that drop from korthia chests

[harsh lantern]

I’ll do that today

hate that place tho

Makes me wanna sleep

[kind talon]

yeah

me too

sucks that gems are so powerful

🥱

[harsh lantern]

Ye

[kind talon]

like

50 dps?

per gem or something

🥱

[main hearth]

No doubt. The music in that place 🥱

[harsh lantern]

“Tier sets” 😴

[pale plank]

I thought they were random, from one of ur lowest conduits

[misty bough]

it does

[kind talon]

yes, but its free

[pale plank]

Lmao

[ashen fulcrum]

Im like halfway through tier 5 its excruciating

[kind talon]

u just get it

without buying it

and the droprate is not bad at all

[upper trout]

is the sylv dagger supposed to be only like 1% damage increase from a dagger of comparable ilvl? did it get nrfed?

[ashen fulcrum]

I got about 1-2 a day

[harsh lantern]

I’d rather just use gold lol

They let you p2w everything else

[kind talon]

nah its just not good for sin rogue

comparatively

[harsh lantern]

Ye only 1.4% better than my 246 OH

from heroic sylv

[misty bough]

this quest fucking sucks

[vestal wren]

lashing is probably the best for sub/sin to empower
for outlaw its probably cto

[kind talon]

which one is that?

[misty bough]

Some stupid campaign shit

aaaaaaaaand i got teleported out

[kind talon]

i would strongly consider Deeper Daggers for sub

in fact, it most likely would be the best for sub to empower given blood set utilization

sin lashing
outlaw cto
sub DD

[misty bough]

are those for ass btw

[vestal wren]

i think lashing sims higher, but feel free to double check

[kind talon]

nah well placed steel is an outlaw conduit

[kind talon]

i dont have access to a blood set sub profile on hand

[pale plank]

@misty bough u don’t have to do it in stone born form, just hop on a mount and fly to those stones

[misty bough]

blizzard in a nutshell innit

[pale plank]

If that’s the quest I think it is

[misty bough]

y

[unreal epoch]

As sin when should I be pooling energy?

[fallen arch]

#assassination-faq

[red plaza]

Literally the first question 😂

[fallen arch]

And as necro?

[kind talon]

probably sf but im about to do a boost

[fallen arch]

Probably SF

Ye gonna sim it in a bit against wps

[kind talon]

ye

[fallen arch]

Shouldn’t matter a whole lot

[kind talon]

prob SF

by a lot

tbh

[hollow river]

Are the 252 conduit upgrades from adamant vaults loot spec specific like korthia conduit upgrades?

[red plaza]

Yeah, it’s the same item. Death bound shard or whatever

[sullen bronze]

hey, did Fine Razorwing Quill (trinket) work for Doomblade (Legy) ?

[gloomy rose]

for nerzhul doing the mass dispel on malevolence, we shadowstep on the other player with malevolence right? so we face each other, I as a rogue have my back from the platform and shadowstep as soon as I get dispelled?

[gloomy rose]

no the legendary doesnt interact with anything beside rogues own bleeds

[sullen bronze]

thx

[gusty mirage]

that's what I do

[gloomy rose]

alright thanks

[fallen arch]

Don’t have to do like a 180 or smth right?

[prisma cypress]

you guys reckon the titanic ocular gland is better than decanter of endless howling? i know it sims higher but that doesn't reflect uptime or the dps lost from the debuff

[lavish lichen]

Use this to sim titanic ocular gland more accurately
(shadowlands.titanic_ocular_gland_worthy_chance=.8)
.8 means 80% uptime, change that to your desired value

[fallen arch]

Doesn’t it always sim that at 75% by default?

[gloomy rose]

I thought the trinket would be bad because of the downside, but honestly with frost bonus I dont drop under half in raid unless its really going downhill

no numbers to back it up, but generally I feel like the uptime is way bigger than I expected

[prisma cypress]

how much uptime should i expect on a progression fight?

[fallen arch]

You can check your logs and see what the uptime is

[pale plank]

I am using decanter and I prefer it over ocular gland

[lavish lichen]

Almost certain it assumes 100% with no changes

[pale plank]

Well I am progging so the debuff is a big no no for me

[prisma cypress]

i only really have logs for farm bosses where it's like 95%+ uptime

but i imagine prog is going to be considerably lower

[gloomy rose]

I think it depends, you have bosses where its either you die or you are full hp

[pale plank]

Plus I think decanter is simming higher for me Bcz of the crit

[prisma cypress]

gland gives more crit, if crit is your highest stat

[pale plank]

Hmmm…. Let me sim real quick brb

[timid coral]

does MA (talent) apply to frost set proc?

[prisma cypress]

if it did, would that be a good enough reason to desync vanish and vendetta?

[gloomy rose]

checked the logs, when we progressed the eye of the jailer, which seems like kinda bad boss for it, I had 93% uptime on the worthy buff

[pale plank]

It’s only giving me a 29dps increase, yea I will stick to decanter, Bcz of prog

[gloomy rose]

but thinking back on it I probably didnt use the frost set back then either, so it might be higher

[timid coral]

actually does vendetta buff frost, for that matter?

[prisma cypress]

i doubt it

that'd be kind of double dipping

[alpine latch]

Are you guys running Shard of Zed in m+?

[hollow river]

Just never take damage EZ

[pale plank]

From WH

[alpine latch]

Yeah, I'm aware it's there. I'm asking if people are running it.

[formal lichen]

hmm Death gods signet ilvl 252: haste: 187 mastery:74 or entwined gorger ilvl 252: 151 crit 107 vers ?
I know I should sim, but kinda thinking, what to take if I look on it for the long run? I alrdy got a crit/vers ring 252 Ilvl in ritual commanders ring. (I'll mostly go M+)

[pale plank]

I am too lazy to switch, I just run all frost and dyz

[lavish lichen]

Zed would probably be the first piece I drop

Depends if you raid or not tbh

If I didn’t want to run 5 gems and didn’t have a mythic helm I’d prob go for 252 m+ helm and add a prismatic socket

[tacit wedge]

i have a stupid question
but how to sim different shard set? top gear?

or gear compare?

[kind talon]

can do either one.

[narrow ravine]

made my 262 dashing today, seems to be fairly competitive with both doomblade and zoldyck

[kind talon]

nice bro. zoldyck is bad in raid tho

zoldyck is the m+ leggo my dude

[narrow ravine]

I know, I had doomblade for raid, and was going to make a zoldyck for m+ but dashing is pretty close to it in m+ and id get a bit more scaling on raid with dashing over doom

its kinda the best of both worlds

[woven ruin]

Having a 2nd and 3rd spec for these random 226 conduit upgrades dropping in korthia sucks when u dont play either spec

[wispy plaza]

I am having some trouble understanding maybe someone can explain it a bit better at the moment i would rather stick with ep/vigor + doomblade since its from what i can see a competitive play style and one i find fun.

That being said what factors go into deciding what set of gems to invest in out of blood/unholy/forst cos from the sims seems like a 300 dps diff of frost and unholy but is that sim bait or the real deal ?

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cyVmnfT7eXxAxqyeGLEUCh

[somber thistle]

People still use zoldyck? Obedience m+

[narrow ravine]

necrolord

[somber thistle]

Oh ya necro

[regal ledge]

How do I sim which shards are better

[narrow ravine]

in top gear, select override your enchants/gems, then select all 5 of the shards you want to sim

as it will replace your gear with the ones you pick

[regal ledge]

okay think I got it

[alpine latch]

I'm going Zoldyck next. Obe/DS/Obedience are all within 50 DPS for me in terms of ST.

I simmed them this morning. They are insanely close

[narrow ravine]

its nice having some close choices to pick from, I hate when one thing is 20% better than all the rest

[kind talon]

i think zoldyck is the choice for m+

[kind talon]

Obe dashing obedience?

do u mean doomblade?

[narrow ravine]

it is, but dashing is within 100 dps of it, and dashing scales higher than doomblade with frost

dashing in dslice is pretty close to zoldyck

so I can wait and make zoldyck later if I need, 3rd times the charm

[alpine latch]

Derp. Yes

Sorry for the typo

[spice spire]

No mistakes only perfection

[late whale]

can anyone tell me why blood sims higher than uh gems on this sim?
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jf9WDGAiBUwdnpof7sh7fz

[manic pebble]

only +43 dps 😦

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/bvkmFB6gAQDNNrRMm6miNb

[plain thistle]

because thats rank3 unholy vs rank 4 blood

and blood isnt bad

[half tartan]

Actually nuts how amazing the shield from frost can be; https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Q4xg29d73ZbJnPhW#fight=14&type=healing&source=12&start=4018421&end=4034916&pins=0%24Separate%24%23244F4B%24damage%241%240.0.0.Any%240.0.0.Any%24true%24185457059.0.0.Rogue%24false%24354632^0%24Separate%24%23909049%24damage%241%240.0.0.Any%240.0.0.Any%24true%24185457059.0.0.Rogue%24false%24350427^0%24Separate%24%23a04D8A%24damage%241%240.0.0.Any%240.0.0.Any%24true%24185457059.0.0.Rogue%24false%24354634^0%24Separate%24%23DF5353%24damage%241%240.0.0.Any%240.0.0.Any%24true%24185457059.0.0.Rogue%24false%24350073 Rogue shield healing during a tough spot on Remnant(torment / aura of spite / malevolence) over a 16 second period

This value may outweigh a slight dps decrease from Unh for those between on the fence

[kind talon]

brother the damage is better too

[plain thistle]

and its a shield, zero overheal

[kind talon]

there is no reason to play anything else

literally 0 reaso

to play any other set for sin and outlaw

[lethal zodiac]

you forgot the conduit "[Lethal Poisons]"

[low oar]

So I just swapped from my tier 4 unholy set to tier 3 frost set for raid last night

Even at t3 it's doing 10% of my DPS

[kind talon]

hes playing dauntless duelist brother

[lethal zodiac]

nvm my bad+

[low oar]

And that doesn't even consider the shield and the heals

[kind talon]

x% of your dps doesnt matter

[half tartan]

Not my log but good knowledge will sim lethal poisons on my build when I get home

[kind talon]

unholy's damage increase is invisible cause its mainstat

[low oar]

It's 10% of my damage, I know it's invisible but 10% is a shit ton

[kind talon]

well yeah

UH set is around 10% as well

[low oar]

And that's a tier lower

Not to mention I'm working on crafting dashing as well, which will widen the gap

[half tartan]

Cool thing about the shield too is that you get rewarded for better play (more DPS) lol 😆

[kind talon]

the shield is just stupid OP

on jah

[half tartan]

Frost set : Winds of Winter
100 yd range
Instant
While inside the Maw or Torghast, each time you deal a critical strike, the Winds accumulate 6/9/12/15/18% of that effect, up to a cap of 180/270/360/450/540 per critical strike.

Every 20 sec, the Winds unleash, dealing Frost damage equal to the total accumulation and and surrounding you in the Winds for 20 sec, absorbing 100% of damage dealt by the Winds.

[low oar]

Plus the absorb from the frost shard itself

T4 is a 6k absorb

[hot chasm]

Thought even sylv normal dagger was BiS in offhand, but the 252 from Nerzul sims higher

[kind talon]

not for sin rogue

[north pecan]

Any synergy with gland and frost/dashing?

[kind talon]

yes

[kind talon]

is that rank 3 or 4?

[low oar]

It's BiS offhand for outlaw because they get way more finishers off

[kind talon]

sub as well

[hot chasm]

ahh I see

ty

[half tartan]

The frost gem shield equated to 273 HPS + 981 from the set totaling at 1250 HPS during the entirety of a fight

For the log I linked

[low oar]

That's tier 2

Tier 3 is 360 cap per

[half tartan]

Rank 4 for the log linked

[low oar]

Yeah but you posted 9%/180 cap

That's tier 2

[clever kindle]

rank 4 hps is good

🙂

[half tartan]

I simply linked the effect to educate since in game icon doesnt show too many details

[clever kindle]

Ill have rank 5 tonight

[low oar]

It's 6/9/12/15/18 cap is 180/270/360/450/540

I'll have rank 4 next week because I upgraded unholy to rank 4 before the buff. I got cucked

[clever kindle]

I was there in 8.3, I wasnt letting the build switcheroo happen on me again so I just bit early on dashing because by the time we had data on everything Id have enough for another leggo and to get my unholy up since I had put some embers into the unholy dps gem

[narrow ravine]

pre buff, I was not getting my helm drop so I started upgrading frost first, then they buffed it

[clever kindle]

or almost anyways, and if they were close it didnt matter enough, so I made a max rank scoundrel cape pre buff

[narrow ravine]

lucked out

so does scoundrel work based on the envenom debuff on the target? or during envenom all targets with poisons get extra crit?

[clever kindle]

Frost shield + fleshcraft makes you soooo tanky

[kind talon]

yeah but theres nothing reasonable to use fleshcraft on this raid

other than

painsmith intermission

[narrow ravine]

frost, flesh and leeching poison, I also run with recuperator, condenced anima sphere and cloacked in shadows for even more tankiness

[half tartan]

I'm curious if it would be worth it to make notes on the rogue guides upon the effectiveness of the healing from blood / shield from frost(if it isn't noted already).

!guides

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[heady drum]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/aFeenRrXBHQJ4v5uGLYVTA

when i finally get around 40% crit it wants me to swap lego? lmao

[clever kindle]

im running rank 4 frost and condensed anima sphere along with recuperator and nimble fingers and pulling that hard healing parse 98.5% avg

[kind talon]

imagine if u played venthyr with the theotar token

u would have

100s accross the board

[strange python]

Hey guys can u help me with positioning or some video how to do SS at remnant? still failing

[clever kindle]

#assassination message this is pretty close

[kind talon]

the boss needs to be right next to you

@strange python

and you need to have the mass dispell timer weakaura

[clever kindle]

Ill check tomorrow what hps is up to with rank 5

[kind talon]

ill link it sec

https://wago.io/CrwNCtWEH

[half tartan]

Do you guys prefer anima sphere (4ish percent healing 10s cd) with nimble steps(10% slow around you + 4 second aoe root when 35% HP 1m CD) or Finese(movement conduit) with 50% shield from health pots / health stones)

[kind talon]

when this goes off you shadowstep instantly

[prisma cypress]

can't you just shadowstep right when you get knocked back

or is something different on mythic

[clever kindle]

also am I the only one who is having Lethal Poisons outsim sudden fractures, even with Fractures being a higher ilvl conduit

[strange python]

okay i will try it

[strange python]

i am trying it but its not doing anything, like no path or shits...

[clever kindle]

You have to be facing the mob so just wait to get knocked back past and shadowstep down or flip your camera after you get dispelled and shadowstep

[strange python]

I am looking at remnant whole time and spamming SS after dispell but cant manage it

[clever kindle]

Idk I cheese every knockback, we killed remnant on mythic last night

[half tartan]

Malevolence Remnant of Ner'zhul nerzhul knockback immune shadowstep shadow step cloak of shadows knock

You have to give yourself space to react for shadowstepping, you can only shadowstep while on the platform, once the game registers you off the platform shadowstep no longer works. You can also use the temporary immunity(0.5 to 1 seconds is accepted widely) from cloak of shadows about a half second before the mass dispel goes off to immune the knock. Had I known this during my prog I would have been much more reliable.

[strange python]

u can immune Knockback?

[half tartan]

Yes, cloak gives you a temporary sub 1 second immunity

you have to time it

[strange python]

Oh will try it, i cant SS it idk i am boomer

[clever kindle]

Shadow step is very reliable, I would maybe clear your game cache and make sure you're hitting it right away after the knockback goes off

[lavish lichen]

0.5 seconds if I’m not mistaken

[clever kindle]

With that weakaura it makes it easy to see when the knockback is actually coming, but I think most groups strategies now shouldnt even require you to do that except to cheese extra damage

[strange python]

Yeah but i cant do SS

[clever kindle]

try clearing your cache that can mess with some weird stuff in game

Example: boss in legion thats on an elevator, having a partially corrupted cache would basically make the elevator move slower for me in my client then other people, so it would hit the ground and I would fall from halfway up

or bfa sorry, maybe legion too I cant remember

[strange python]

Yeah thanks guys, maybe i will make it but thanks thanks

[alpine latch]

I did the exact same thing. I had 9 shards before I had 3 Dom sockets. I still only have 3 Dom sockets 😦

I started building Frost before it got buffed because it's the only choice I had at the time

[wind totem]

Anyone know why most of the top parses on guardian are with ep /vigor instead of bs/ds?

[lean coral]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/mDssTfLgfip2gCdmfW4nxF

finally got t6

im free

[prisma cypress]

you mean 5?

[wind totem]

his gems are t4

i have no idea what he means

[fallow estuary]

hes talking about rep

he achieved t6 archivist's codex so he could now socket all his pieces

[half tartan]

Common consensus is that the gain is relatively small, Vigor / EP work better for painsmith and for Fatescribe and the difficulty of Guardian is kind of under tuned so unnecessary.

[lean coral]

yeah i meant archivist

im behind on gems cause of the swap to frost

[fallow estuary]

i had so much bad luck with shards

so when frost was buffed i still only had 1x unholy

so now my frost is t5

x)

[limber lion]

I'll be getting Korthia t6 in 2 days as well.

Can't wait.

[wind totem]

I have no idea why you are talkinga bout fatescribe and painsmith when i asked about guardian and you provided no explanation as to why they use it on guardian. Personally for me its over 100 dps difference on a pure ST patcherwerk for me. Which is not that small.

[alpine latch]

I think I'm a week out... As I get closer, I'm not 100% clearing it, so that day keeps increasing 😦

[fallow estuary]

if its 100dps difference you should go bs/ds on guardian

[half tartan]

Yeah just do it

[low oar]

100 DPS on a patchwerk is extremely small. That coincides to like 50 DPS in a real fight

[half tartan]

Some people prefer to have an abudance of energy***

[sharp zodiac]

When it’s that close your ability to play the class well will make the difference

[chilly viper]

Some people just perfet EP/Vigor playstyle, it's a little bit more fast paced

[fallow estuary]

also for some ppl ep+vig just sims higher than bs/ds

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/mvPopyTRTK569SH2AeSkn6

ep/vig sims 36dps higher for me

also vig gets stronger the more often you leave the boss

[cedar star]

Guessing it’s tied to the amount of haste you have?

[fallow estuary]

Get bombs on guardian = 50 free energy you wouldnt have with ds

[hollow river]

Can be tied to multiple things

[narrow ravine]

14 more stygian embers for t5 frost, so close but not sure ill get enough tonight

[granite pumice]

Hello folks.. converted from outlaw (been running it/combat for years) to assassin as of today in attempts to squeak out more DPS..

I'm a venthyr rogue and I was hoping to see if anyone had some tips to get more than 20 stacks of flag..

[kind talon]

make sure you flag right before a finisher

with max cp

thats it

[red plaza]

20-25 is the average stacks you should be shooting for as sin

[half tartan]

All I meant that typically guardian for progression is a short bridge(Most guilds between 5-25 pulls), between Painsmith and Fatescribe, and Vigor/EP tends to find value in those fights. Switching (for progression) a playstyle may not be optimal for rogues, you can call it lazyness or whatever but it's reality. Also, based on logs, most rogues have played and are used to EP/Vigor for a majority of the rest of the raid, that when switching to DS the energy feels short(at least in my experience), and the playstyle although very close, is slightly different. For a trivial progression fight I wouldn't find much value in switching personally.

[timid talon]

id like to add to that, with dashing the energy issue is not even noticable

you should swap on any fight that isn't 2+ targets

Guardian, pain, fate are all good bs/ds fights for prog, i guess you could swap on fate if you want to parse but no one's goal should be to parse on prog lol

[flat pike]

should i always save flag for vendetta? ie. when flag is up and vendetta isn't i wait the 30 seconds for them to align?

[timid talon]

KT really depends on your comp, but i still think bs/ds is more beneficial for why you bring a rogue anyway

[pale plank]

I run BS/DS for all the first 9/10 bosses. And EP/Vigor for sylv

[chilly viper]

What do you guys do as "rotation" for small aoe pack like fate's adds

Fan of Knives into evenom ?

[prisma cypress]

rupture em if they live long enough

otherwise yeah

fan if there are 4+

[violet jackal]

isn't it 3+ targets?

[limber lion]

Generally gar one, rup 1-2 and then fok/env the boss.

[limber lion]

No.

[pale plank]

They don’t live enough lots of pumpers in the group, just usually fan of knife and envenom fate

[limber lion]

We Mutilate on 1-3, FoK on 4+.

[lethal zodiac]

+1

[prisma cypress]

i think you fan on 3 if any of them aren't poisoned, or something

[limber lion]

To spread poisons, yes.

[flat pike]

do you guys wait 30 seconds for flaggelation to be up to align with vendetta?

[limber lion]

No.

[chilly viper]

maybe if you know boss will die before next one comes up

[flat pike]

ok ty bro

bros*

[kind talon]

what erra said is correct. if you know boss will die within 50 seconds to 1:30 seconds from the time your flag comes up

then you hold

[pseudo nimbus]

hey guys, shadowgrasp totem and decanter of endless howling (from soulrender) are both simming 10 dps from each other, which one would go for? decanter for the frost crits?

both 239

[shadow tusk]

decanter imo

[half tartan]

How does upgrading conduits work now? Does it pick all the assassin ones first, the assassin + covenant, the assassin + covenant + utility ones. (basically which are removed from the upgrade table, would it just be the 8 for off specs

[red plaza]

Current spec + covenant + finesse + defensive

[dark token]

random among those

[half tartan]

Got it so would just remove the 8 from the other 2 specs

[red plaza]

Yep 👍

[obsidian dew]

where can i find the bis rogue SoD socket stuff? or does it not matter?

i feel like i read over them in all guides

[alpine latch]

You mean the Shards? Ultimately, you need to be simming yourself, however for most people Frost seems to be the highest.

Some people sim higher with Unholy though

[clever kindle]

Realistically you can just pick a build then start gearing towards it, if you want to play a specific set up

Most builds are pretty close

[last stirrup]

is the painsmith trink especially good for the frost shard build? (cause shredded souls gives crit) I know i could sim but i don't have frost bonus yet and am mid raid :d tryna figure out if i'ma keep it

[alpine latch]

100% depends on your crit chance and other trinket options. It is really a "sim it" question

[last stirrup]

well it's when it dies so not mby super relevant for raiding

[warm plover]

This game wtf, I legit killed Sylvanas on HC 6 times and looted an item everytime but you guess, not the dagger

like wtf

[lethal zodiac]

no way a random hunter just traded me the amp trinket

[violet jackal]

4 kills 4 different pieces of loot for me lol

[warm plover]

3 chests 2 belts and 1 ring

[half tartan]

Is BiS frost assassin dashing sim close to the BiS sub sim? I understand that sub gets major extra value from sylv daggers. I remember somebody linking each at about 12.5k(pretty close) but I could be wrong.

[gloomy rose]

is it value to put bleeds on one orb on nerzhul when it spawns for the energy regen? does it even work?

[tawdry sparrow]

Am never gonna get those kel shoulders.. think i am 7 or 8 kills dry ln them.. (both normal and hc) always getting loot am not getting 😂 oh well, i’ll keep rocking my 213 lfr shoulders then 😅

[violet jackal]

yes

[gloomy rose]

thanks

[hollow river]

Check pins

Sub gains more value from daggers yes but sin bis isn’t far behind sub bis at all

[slow marsh]

i wish i had the 213

[tawdry sparrow]

😅

[half tartan]

TY for tip

[pulsar robin]

Is kyrian viable for ass/rogue or is damage week due to mastery focus compared to necrolord where its haste focused on bleeds?

[lethal zodiac]

hmm should i reroll to venthyr if i mainly raid?

and only do m+ for my weekly

[shadow tusk]

venthyr is best for raid, however if you wanna play outlaw necro might be the way

[lethal zodiac]

i mainly play ass

and if i should play a 2nd spec its prob sub

[shadow tusk]

venthyr and necro is in general really close but for ST venthyr pulls ahead

sub wants venthyr as well

[lethal zodiac]

ok real talk how annying is it to farm renown

annoying*

[shadow tusk]

Haven't done it in 9.1 but in 9.0 you could do the 1-40 grind in a couple of days of doing basic content

9.1 its supposed to be faster but idno

[clear shadow]

do you vendetta before or after flag

[shadow tusk]

after

but doesnt matter

[clear shadow]

why not before flag so u can get more damage put of flag

[drifting cloud]

because you want to have rupture up before you vendetta

[clear shadow]

flag deals like 30k though

or does vendetta only work off rogue abilities

[balmy condor]

You’re thinking way too hard

Just send it whenever you want

[clear shadow]

so is it ok to use after vendetta or am i losing out on some mutilates or envenoms during vendetta window

[drifting cloud]

its worse but you can still get r1 with it

[shadow tusk]

I've been doing both

havent noticed a difference

[clear shadow]

also if i have like 40% crit is it just better to run dashing over doomblade

[shadow tusk]

you'd have to sim that

assuming you have atleast t4 frost it probably is but sim it to be sure

[clear shadow]

sims say run dashing

i do have t4 frost

[shadow tusk]

send it

[lethal zodiac]

so run dashig i guess

[clear shadow]

alright cool im gonna try it out tonight

is there any scenario where i run ep vigor over blindside ds?

with dashing

[ornate lake]

sim that too tbh

bs/ds is a bit more ST oriented

[rare scaffold]

what is the single target opener for frost sin ?

[ornate lake]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[ornate lake]

nothing changes

[shadow tusk]

I only run blindside DS on guardian so far

[rare scaffold]

what about stats crit with haste right ?

[clear shadow]

alright cool

[balmy condor]

Yep but it’s mostly an ilvl thing for frost

Won’t really see the big gap until like 245-250

[ornate lake]

I run it on everything, but soulrender, KT

130 dps difference on ST.

[fading vortex]

@ornate lake check out the pinned posts too (just in case you haven't yet)

[ornate lake]

that EP/vigor doesnt swing balance too much?

[hollow river]

Only pure ST in the raid is terragrue and guardian

[ornate lake]

well 130 dps is for me enough

[balmy condor]

I think if you’re trying to go for boss damage bs/deeper is for sure correct

But there’s a lot of random adds and cleave where ep vig is better

[shadow tusk]

most targets has atleast 1 other target tho

[balmy condor]

I personally only run it on guardian as well

But I play sub anyways for guardian

[shadow tusk]

maybe terragrue but that boss doesnt matter what u do

[balmy condor]

Definitely not Tara

[hollow river]

You could literally press no buttons on terragrue

And do 10k dps

[balmy condor]

All the empowerment stuff goes away at 10%

[hollow river]

Like I said, no buttons

[balmy condor]

That’s pretty ugly for blindside

[hollow river]

[shadow tusk]

depends on what powers as well

vigor doesnt do much if u have the giga regen

or less resource cost rather

[clear shadow]

yea the one that gives u armor?

[ornate lake]

Yeah its a bit situational, but if add dmg isnt an issue for your guild but boss dmg is. bs/ds bueno

[half tartan]

all i get is Howling, poison spit, 30 percent damage stack, and 50 percent crit no crap buffs, and the rest of my raid only takes drop damage orbs and 15 percent buff green beam so I get like 6 beams at once

#justgetgoodpowers

[clear shadow]

huddled carvings and the heart seeking fang are top tier

[ornate lake]

elethium weight

[obtuse robin]

^^

[thorn grotto]

lumbering form - only good power

[ornate lake]

and ten of towers :<

[leaden garden]

Is asa one of the best, if not the best, melee atm? (honest question, have been away and its what i have heard)

[half tartan]

I feel weak on short cleave(nine), and aoe burst

[shadow tusk]

assa is really strong for sure yeah

not the best tho

[half tartan]

Single target we are only arguably weaker then a good feral / arms / boomkin?

[thorn grotto]

A good feral

[half tartan]

they exist

but I always have to hear their shit about how they got a mechanic during incarn

[thorn grotto]

They are almost as degenerate as we are when we don't get a restealth between pulls in dungeons

[leaden garden]

I am venthyr on my rogue, is that alright for asa?

[obtuse robin]

best st

[leaden garden]

nice

[half tartan]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/28#boss=2432&dataset=95 95 percent tile Remnant
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/28#boss=2434&dataset=95 95 percent tile Soulrender

[thorn grotto]

Pumper survival hunters as well

[half tartan]

Survival 😆 💩

[loud mason]

Alright bois, after 6 weeks i finally got frost set, i read pins that its guchi in single target with dashing, but in m+ do i still use zoldyck ?

[shadow tusk]

yep

[obtuse robin]

survival is one aura buff from being best hunter spec

its good

[hollow river]

Honestly assa does seem to be falling behind some classes in Raid

Compared to last tier

[half tartan]

We are actually I think as strong as boomkins since they generally get PIs, along with Demo locks

[obtuse robin]

we sucked last tier?

[half tartan]

If we got PIs I think we'd push ahead

[hollow river]

No we didn’t?

[obtuse robin]

uh

[hollow river]

After 9.0.5

[shadow tusk]

assa wasnt good untill late

[obtuse robin]

well thats not last tier

theres a whole 9.0 were is started

[hollow river]

Assa was literally #2 ST behind only a priest

[balmy condor]

Tier was done at the time sin was good

[hollow river]

Well

I started raiding like a month or two before 9.0.5

Started playing the game in January/Feb

So I only remember the good times ok

[shadow tusk]

yeah, assa got buffed with a total of 18% aura

so they had a rough start

[hollow river]

Yeah i know

I mained outlaw when I first started raiding

[obtuse robin]

entire 1st tier

poop

[balmy condor]

Imagine thinking it was only 18%

[hollow river]

It was more yeah

Lots of aura buffs

18% was the last one wasn’t it

[shadow tusk]

well in increments

[balmy condor]

God no they don’t do 18% aura buffs

But it was closer to 25% at the end of it

[shadow tusk]

they did a what 6-8% intially or smth

[balmy condor]

Yeh but it multiplies itself

[obtuse robin]

and thats not including powered power from good ol venth

[shadow tusk]

yeah

[balmy condor]

18% is different than 6% 6% 6%

[shadow tusk]

math

[obtuse robin]

they also eased up with melee mechanics in raid

alot stuff added up

[kind talon]

math

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/754475784399355955.png?v=1

[snow forge]

oh boy that 500dps difference between venthyr and necrolord is illegal

[obtuse robin]

?

[hollow river]

Then I guess I’m a criminal

[snow forge]

its too much, i have to consider swapping again 😄

[hollow river]

Necro just doesn’t seem quite as good as it was at the end of last tier either, for ST comparison anyway

Still good in cleave I know

[shadow tusk]

they should just kill venthyr

[obtuse robin]

oh i c at max gear

[shadow tusk]

let everyone be necro

[obtuse robin]

i thought u simmed ur self and necro was down 500

lol

[snow forge]

with my gear (which is still good) difference is probably not that high, guess i should sim it. but in the end it wont change if we kill a boss or not

just a minmax decision

[obtuse robin]

not even close

[hollow river]

O.o

You guys have never had 1% wipes?

[strange python]

this game's weird, im simming unholy the highest all of a sudden like wtf

[flat kiln]

Does anyone know how cloak interacts with Fragments of Destiny on The Nine? I didn't have enough time to properly test it but it seemed like it might just make the debuff disappear without passing it to someone else?

[snow forge]

sure, we can go down that road and look whos fault it is (couldve executed the fight better too etc)

ill sim myself (as always) and make my decision :>

[charred wraith]

it just goes onto another player, like a dispell, so not worth it

[flat kiln]

Ah gotcha, thanks

[tacit wedge]

Year of the spear

[loud mason]

same stats as usual on dashing btw? cloak crit haste ?

[slow marsh]

Do the Sims with movement and Necro will start closing the gap ^_^

[slow marsh]

Yes

[loud mason]

aighty thanks

[balmy condor]

Decade of the dagger brother

[tribal mauve]

what a night boyz, got R4 frost, dagger on sylv + ring on sylv \o/

[hollow river]

Century of the sword sir

[kind talon]

millenium of the monk

[hollow river]

Oof

[meager mountain]

hey sin is taking 3 unh shards correct?

[cedar star]

No

[meager mountain]

kk ty

[cedar star]

Frost is the better scaling build

[meager mountain]

thank u

[cedar star]

But you need a lot of crit

[meager mountain]

i have 2 frost, 3 blood, and 1 unh lol

[hollow river]

Well it depends on your build

Your ilvl, your crit

In the late game, yes frost is better

[meager mountain]

26% crit 225ilvl (new alt)

[hollow river]

Will u raid mythic with it

[cedar star]

I personally would go frost even if unholy sims better (it will) so you don’t waste Stygian embers

[meager mountain]

ok so no blood

got it thanks guys

[hollow river]

No blood for sin

Sub

[alpine latch]

Unless you're really wanting to push Mythic raiding hard, you can run whatever you want honestly

[hollow river]

^

[meager mountain]

well im 3/10M so definitely not hard

[hollow river]

Unholy is pretty good

[alpine latch]

You can even run Blood, if you want. It's not ideal but it's honestly not very far behind Unholy

[hollow river]

I wouldn’t upgrade blood

[alpine latch]

Frost is like 500 DPS higher than Unholy for end game, and Blood is ~100 DPS lower than Unholy. If Blood is bad, so is Unholy

I wouldn't either

[hollow river]

Can definitely run the rank 1 tho if u have gear slots for it

[alpine latch]

But I also wouldn't upgrade any of the sets if I wasn't planning on raiding

I'd just upgrade it for m+

[meager mountain]

Okay i think im just gonna put them in my slots, and then i will gradually upgrade frost

[alpine latch]

It all depends on your goals with the character honestly

[meager mountain]

big dam

[alpine latch]

Having r5 Frost set doesn't help if you're just wanting to run some m+ with it, and if you're wanting to just having something fun to play in alt runs with your guild, any set will be fine.

Big damage in what? m+, raid, or PvP?

[cedar star]

The problem is this doesn’t account for the massive difference in survivability

[meager mountain]

i appreciate your replies, honestly. this is much better than the priest discord lol. Which i main

[cedar star]

Unholy vs frost and blood gives you much much less survivability

[hollow river]

xD

[cedar star]

It’s not a small thing

[alpine latch]

Yeah, I know - but again, we're talking about raid vs m+ vs PvP

I'm asking his goals and which modes he's playing