and when u have that on some targets you should be overflowing in engergy
#assassination
pulsar sable
wintry mica
usually ill do 4 garrotes, ct, then star fan/rupture spam
zinc frost
Throw bone spikes if you are playing the best covenant 
pulsar sable
if you venth id rather play sub in dungeons and necro if anything else
loud mason
how many stacks of obedience do u guys usally get 😛 ? st raid fights
strange python
so basically
slow marsh
I did my first key as outlaw yesterday and I hated my life
strange python
ass = poo poo in keys
wintry mica
no
halcyon zealot
no
wintry mica
its fine
halcyon zealot
rofl
oak sky
Damage is pretty good
wintry mica
just not the best
oak sky
Iron wire is good
slow marsh
So much work for less damage than sin
wintry mica
iron wire is super underrated
pulsar sable
i really like outlaw, it jsut feels so consistent and smooth to play in m+
odd heath
Assassination is good on keys tbh
strange python
how is outlaw in raid
odd heath
Worse than outlaw, better than most specs
halcyon zealot
assa can actually bring a strong damage profile if you have a set group of 5 you run with, i play with a hunter boomy and hpal, assa fits out profile very well
for boss and LT, 2-3t mob pack pulls, very valuable
zinc frost
how is outlaw in raid
Honestly all 3 specs are in a good place in all content
spice spire
Big pulls are where you feel the difference tho
slow marsh
You don't carry big pulls so it doesn't matter
spice spire
But boss damage you’re usually 
even in full “AoE” mode
slow marsh
Sub wins those all day
odd heath
As assassin u pull 10-15k every pack and blast st when it matters
spice spire
Yeah 13-18k when lock is just pulling 30 is just a 
zinc frost
Yeah as long as you accept your role as boss/tormentor blaster your good 😜
slow marsh
I noticed people just don't pop CDs enough as sin
pulsar sable
oh so far i like bonespike while doing worldquest atleast, feels nice to have another button to press
wintry mica
yea i ran with my buddies arms warrior the other day and was just like useless
halcyon zealot
ya or hunter casually doing 45k every other pack cuz they are both a 2 min and 1 min class
strange python
so when do i use crimson tempest
spice spire
I ran with a lock/sub/myself as sin, and you definitely have a role in doing dungeons
wintry mica
all the time
twin prism
how much better is the unholy/frost set over blood?
pulsar sable
alot
slow marsh
Prio CT over rupture at 3+
spice spire
so when do i use crimson tempest
You use it to apply the bleed, And then refresh it. You do not spam CT in AoE. In ST you’ll keep it up outside of shiv windows
loud mason
How much obedience stacks do u guys usally get each use, raids st ?
pulsar sable
is there any reason to do the abomination buiulding questline now that i swapped to necro or am i wasting time?
wintry mica
~25
strange python
i got a lot to learn god damn
zinc frost
I noticed people just don't pop CDs enough as sin
I honestly think people don’t realise how much time they have between bosses/tormentors so they “save” vendetta when they could be using it more often
odd heath
Assassin also is a lot more engaging to play on m+.. sub is like.. ss bp ss bp ss bp zzzzzzzzzzzz
Outlaw is just.. press flurry
wintry mica
yea but the shuriken tornado burst feels nice
odd heath
yea but the shuriken tornado burst feels nice
It does
slow marsh
how much better is the unholy/frost set over blood?
Blood is equal to UH in ST and with it's consistency makes it better. UH is better in aoe
odd heath
All cds up, 40k burst
slow marsh
I honestly think people don’t realise how much time they have between bosses/tor...
Exactly
wintry mica
yea i definitely still dont vanish enough in m+
strange python
why subterfuge over master assassin in keys
wintry mica
multiple empowered garrotes is really good for trash
wintry mica
and not even that bad on bosses either
slow marsh
Outlaw is just.. press flurry
Press flurry, press pistol shot every other ss, keep ghostly up, oh roll the bones cuz it's at 2s left on buffs, btw your vanish has been up for 10s you should vanish ambush, nice noob you overcapped cp cuz you have BS up
halcyon zealot
I honestly think people don’t realise how much time they have between bosses/tor...
people also have this weird thought process that CDs need to be up on the pull of a boss so they over hold
wintry mica
yea best advice for learning when to CD in m+
strange python
so when it comes to a shiv sindow
wintry mica
do a run and just pop that shit on CD every time
strange python
do you want to get as many envenoms in as much as possible
slow marsh
No
odd heath
Press flurry, press pistol shot every other ss, keep ghostly up, oh roll the bon...
Ye.. not too hard, I just don't like the apm and having the same rotation for St and aoe
wintry mica
think of shiv as more of an uptime buff
you shouldnt ever delay it because you dont have enough energy
strange python
so what do you do in a shiv window
wintry mica
ideally spam mut and envenom
strange python
ok
wintry mica
but you still keep dots up if they are going to fall off
strange python
ok
hollow siren
u can fit 2-3 good envenoms in if you pre dot
oak sky
You want to envenom in the shiv window, you just dont want the mentality that you need a certain amount of envenoms in it
hollow siren
ye
strange python
ok that makes sense
pulsar sable
holy fuck why is so fucking satisfying to use
strange python
what is a good combo point amount for envenom
wintry mica
max-1
slow marsh
Ye.. not too hard, I just don't like the apm and having the same rotation for St...
Yeah it's not bad in theory. Like I understand how it's supposed to work I just need to play it more and get comfy with it. Also I need to figure out something else for my rolls cuz I was having a hard time with my rolls without just staring at my bar
spice spire
There are quite a few questions you have, if you haven’t checked it I’d recommend going to #assassination-faq and reading the guides @strange python 
hollow siren
just dump it
slow marsh
holy fuck why is <:bonespike:819633877840298023> so fucking satisfying to use
It really is. I'm thinking about swapping back again
zinc frost
holy fuck why is <:bonespike:819633877840298023> so fucking satisfying to use
Welcome to the best covenant
pulsar sable
its so fucking nice in world content
odd heath
Yeah it's not bad in theory. Like I understand how it's supposed to work I just ...
I played outlaw a lot on bfa and on some prog bosses on CN, but I can't stand the high apm, my boomer wrists can't take it
zinc frost
its so fucking nice in world content
Just wait until you start doing bonespike snipes in m +…
loud mason
im in the middle of raiding atm, could someone send me an link or something on how obedience window should be played?
i keep only gettin 20-25 stacks :\
pulsar sable
how does bonespike work with blade flurry in outlaw?
static mirage
Does the deathly shadows tech give us any real benefit? Is it worth committing the soul ash to?
zinc frost
Only works for sub
wintry mica
yep patched for sin and outlaw
oak sky
With blindside deeper you can get like 26-29 stacks but only expect 20-25 with ep vigor
wintry mica
not good for us anyway
loud mason
should i run the obedience legendary on ner zhul, even thou i only get 20-25 stacks?
or doomblade?
static mirage
Thanks! Good to know
wintry mica
odd heath
should i run the obedience legendary on ner zhul, even thou i only get 20-25 sta...
Whatever sims higher
slow marsh
I played outlaw a lot on bfa and on some prog bosses on CN, but I can't stand th...
Haha feels. The apm is fine for me it's more the amount of effort that's going into it for just a hair more dps than sin gives. Since it's faster paced and I'm just learning it again since wrath I'm making a lot of cp / energy cap mistakes and it just feels bad. It'll get better as I do it, just don't know if it's worth
strange python
whajt is a fast way to level a rogue
wintry mica
i like sin cause its so forgiving when you have to do mechanics
strange python
just dungeons and questing?
wintry mica
whajt is a fast way to level a rogue
pay blizz $60
strange python
i meant 50-60 lmao
odd heath
Haha feels. The apm is fine for me it's more the amount of effort that's going i...
Ye.. it's easier to make mistakes due to high apm and less time to think, but u will get used to it!
abstract flicker
idk how and what i am doing wrong but i ve 2k dps more overall as assa then outlaw in keys
wintry mica
just burning through campaign with flying is pretty quick now too
slow marsh
Sin is good idk why people still don't get that
wintry mica
but dungeons i think is still the fastest if you have a group or insta queue
slow marsh
Sin has been good for months
wintry mica
yea but people only care about what is "best"
pulsar sable
Haha feels. The apm is fine for me it's more the amount of effort that's going i...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mVvH9E5p3E check this out, this wa helped me alot to learn to not fuck up my cp usage in m+
odd heath
yea but people only care about what is "best"
So u go there and blast them as assassin, that's what I do hehe
slow marsh
Well with updated tech sin does like 20 more dps than sub in 5min ST full bis so
abstract flicker
do you consider with best gouge or why is outlaw "best" ?
slow marsh
@pulsar sable thanks. I've seen that actually
wintry mica
if we are talking theoretically then outlaw sims highest at full bis gear
abstract flicker
how is outlaw dmg better? what keys we talkin about 15sh?
slow marsh
Outlaw is better suited for keys that are more punishing because it can generally be played more consistent as long as you have equal skill level in all specs
Like 20s
15s who cares do what you want
oak sky
You can easily do 15s as any spec in the game
pulsar sable
yeah outlaw is just really consistent and not punishing in higher keys compared to the other specs
its just has nice consistent pumpage
slow marsh
Makes sense
wintry mica
actually no second
pulsar sable
sub is really good now aswell
wintry mica
cause JPC is first now
zinc frost
Yeah jpc started pumping back to the no. 1 spot
pulsar sable
tho outlaw with frost is pumping really ahrd in the raid now aswell so think alot of ppl will be playing outlaw overall now
slow marsh
All 3 specs are very close right now for all content so just play what you're best at
wintry mica
frost set actually feels good in raid
I dont miss having unholy set proc at the wrong times
oak sky
When sylvanas pushes wrong it feels so bad
slow marsh
I'm forcing myself to learn outlaw for fun just cuz I want to learn it
zinc frost
Yeah spec balance is top tier atm. Please don’t nerf anything blizz 🙏
pulsar sable
i just got my frost shoulders from kt in normal and we have4 out hc guild reclear 2morrow so havent gotten to test frost yet
wintry mica
thats what Im doing right now too
I have absolute shit luck with daggers so I am getting ready to swap to outlaw if I get a wep from raid
dark token
You can easily do 15s as any spec in the game
you can easily do 20s in any spec in the game
they are super nerfed compared to last season
wintry mica
by the end of the season yea
lethal zodiac
how come that i have 38% crit and doom is still better then dashing for me? with frost rank 4s https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/39gPVMP7N6syPmk2Vk21yz
slow marsh
you can easily do 20s in any spec in the game
True with a premade
dark token
i mean i play random shit like sin in 20s and i have a friend who is survival hunter
wintry mica
because you didnt sim with bs/ds
dark token
pug most of em
slow marsh
Survival isnt bad tho
bleak sky
how come that i have 38% crit and doom is still better then dashing for me? with...
this is just doomblade sim, there's no dashing here
dark token
its only like 23-24+ where you really need to play meta
wintry mica
this is just doomblade sim, there's no dashing here
oh that too lol its just a sim of the chest
lethal zodiac
heck i added it
wintry mica
add bs/ds also
drowsy parcel
and poison conduit
zinc frost
Yeah definitely a lot easier this season 19/20 tyrannical keys actually felt nice to do lol
pulsar sable
this abomination questline really ruined the fun of swapping covenants, jesus christ
wintry mica
recently ive just ignored everything but the transport network on characters ive swapped
bleak sky
Yeah definitely a lot easier this season 19/20 tyrannical keys actually felt nic...
and god damn, obedience feels GOOD in keys
pulsar sable
i thought i had to do this quest line. rip
wintry mica
youll have to do the cov campaign
pulsar sable
im not even sure what thois questline is, its the w1 where you create "princess" or w/e the name was
pulsar sable
yeah i assumed it was for that so i just commited but holy fuck its boring
pseudo hamlet
Are there "highest sims" done like it was always before? I mean the combinations of bis gear set for each covenant etc?
slow marsh
No
zinc frost
Only one is for frost set in the sub channel but that’s about it
slow marsh
But I did them personally for sin and sub for fun
Just comparing bis to bis
Sin beats sub by 20 dps
pseudo hamlet
Oh ok
pulsar sable
might only beat it by 20 dps but its like 20 times more fun
obtuse robin
for you or at bis
pseudo hamlet
Was wondering about something, but just noticed that we dont have dom socket in the pants... So it's better to get the pants instead of helm, even if helm has a higher DPS gain according to raidbot(still don't have the dom socket helm 
)
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3DNA7vWTmmQrD1wAmQqVPe
slow marsh
Sorry sub and sin diff is closer like less than 10 dps full bis
The bis gear is different for both specs so it's annoying
alpine latch
Jesus
dark token
The bis gear is different for both specs so it's annoying
Not really you go big crit on both
narrow ravine
no enchants on your weapons?
pulsar sable
wouldnt mind having that gear tbh
slow marsh
This isn't me this is full bis sims
alpine latch
Surely someone doesn't actually have that gear, right? Please tell me no one has that gear...
dark token
Just a lil more haste as your secondary priority on sin, and vers for sub
Not much different due to raid gear stat distribution
It's like 2 different pieces
slow marsh
Just a lil more haste as your secondary priority on sin, and vers for sub
Yeah but it equals to like 100 dps diff overall
There's like 4 pieces you swap
Sub doesn't mind mastery and sin hates it
Also a lot of "bis" profiles use sylvanas belt when the lower ilvl belt is better
alpine latch
It's crazy how that is 2k higher than Cev sims as he sits right now. He can get 2k more damage... Holy shit
alpine latch
I know
alpine latch
I'm saying, Cev sims like 10.2 right now (and I don't even know if he's in ST talents/leggo, I didn't check)
He's probably higher
but still, shit
Okay, so I can gain 3500 DPS in theory. Good to know.
slow marsh
Cev can sim like 140 higher if he sims bs DS but he likes ep vig
Point is that there aren't updated sims comparing specs in full bis so I just did it myself for a friend to see
balmy condor
Point is that there aren't updated sims comparing specs in full bis so I just di...
yet.
slow marsh
Yet indeed
I'm not worried about it, I just have a rogue guildie that was asking me for them
It was more that the most recently updated sims in a certain spec channel are not accurate by any means
zinc frost
@balmy condor mans got covid and still streaming 🙏 bless your soul
balmy condor
dark token
I'm saying, Cev sims like 10.2 right now (and I don't even know if he's in ST ta...
Don't think that's hard to get tbh, if you get r4 of frost set and like 1-2 mythic pieces you will sim that much
People look at huge dps gaps but it's almost always shards
If you don't have a shard set or it's low rank it's a huge difference
alpine latch
I have 2 Mythic pieces and r4 and I definitely don't sim like that... lol
My weapons need work, and I need a new phial
lyric dock
I'm at 9.6 with r4 frost and no mythic pieces so yeah he's right
lyric dock
41 crit 17 haste. Tons of crit 246 dagger 246 phial
alpine latch
Yeah, you have much better gear than me. You have 6 252 items
That's 6 pieces of Mythic-level gear
dark token
have you been doing vault weekly?
drifting cloud
do you even have 5 sockets
alpine latch
I'm fucking tired of killing normal bosses
alpine latch
I just want my damn items
bleak sky
I'm fucking tired of killing normal bosses
have you cleared heroic every week?
arctic hare
Crap, i'd better go do LFR for the gems I need
bleak sky
- some mythic bosses?
alpine latch
have you cleared heroic every week?
Nope. 9/10 - Just got my first KT/Sylvanas kill last week and I'm 1/10M
dark token
if you do 3 mythic bosses and 4 15+ keys a week you will catch up quick
alpine latch
My guild is only 7/10H, so I've been pugging KT/Sylv and Terragrue
bleak sky
rough
bleak sky
so you've missed like 4 chests in total from raid I think?
alpine latch
Oh, probably more than that yeah
drifting cloud
dont worry they were all 9 ring
alpine latch
I've been clearing a lot of normal for what I still need - just unlucky with gear
I had all 9 Shards before I even had 3 sockets (and I bought my gloves the second I could)
I need to start farming PF for Phial and the dagger
abstract flicker
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/eojxJHo3cK989vKeDoYAwg compared to some other sims with similar ilvl i sim lower. is it cause phial is missing or why?
alpine latch
Phial, no Edge of Night OH
sturdy stirrup
what stats should i use for doomblade legendary
drifting cloud
crit haste
sturdy stirrup
thank you
harsh rapids
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
blissful crane
Hey, Im kinda confused, anyone know why I get a higher parse with lower dps ? look at wipe 5 compared to kill 1. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/FbTZ6tNwQf9ARP2c/#fight=37&type=damage-done
On painsmith
slow marsh
wipe parses are weird for sure
gusty mirage
wipe parses are weird for sure
slow marsh
blissful crane
Okay, Ill keep that in mind 😄 thanks!
arctic hare
Hmm, analyzed my logs, suprisingly enough i didn't have any major issues on lots of the bosses, awesome
Heh, Roh Kalo, that was, that didn't fare well for me
runic maple
any1 know if relic of frozen wastes is a sim bait?
drifting cloud
how can it be a sim bait when its not good
regal cape
It does its damage in 3 different parts in logs/details don't forget
runic maple
so its a bait then, it sims higher than most trinkets
regal cape
I mean it does dam
It just doesn't scale like shadowgrasp, pump passively like Phil, or give tons of stats like titty gland
If it's the best you have, use it
regal cape
Over ooze?
runic maple
yh
wintry mica
sounds about right
regal cape
I mean yea having one active is solid
Don't need to sync it with anything
Just send it
runic maple
alright, so I'll start using frozen then
have seen some ppl in the past asking if its a bait so I got curious
regal cape
Yee, just be aware if you're expecting to see it do dam in logs/details it's split into phys hit, autos, and frost bonus hit
runic maple
cool
regal cape
Which individually look like it does a lot less damage
runic maple
ye
jovial spear
Im struggling a bit with the opener. For me it feels a bit "clunky" ? Is that because im not going with Vigor?
hollow river
Is it possible for not pooling to equate to ~1k dps loss?
drifting cloud
no lol
hollow river
Didn’t think so
hollow river
Kk
wintry mica
yea probably not, thatd be 2% dps loss at 10k
drifting cloud
yeah youd have to go out of your way to antipool
like try to have 0 cp 0 energy 1 global before shivs
hollow river
I’m usually 1k under my simmed dps on patchwerk
drifting cloud
and stuff
wintry mica
you arent ever going to be doing your sim dps
but do you have all the same buffs as the sim?
jovial spear
Depends on the fight as well tbh 😛
narrow ravine
no one gets to the sims, for one, my group never has a windfury totem
hollow river
Just feel like I shouldn’t be THAT far off on a fight like guardian
I’ve been trying to get better about pooling for shivs, flag etc
narrow ravine
did you get picked for any mechanics?
hollow river
Just a couple threat neutralizes
But I sprint out last second and step back to boss
narrow ravine
yeah im a bit behind my sim too on that fight
halcyon zealot
if you’re simming with WFT on, you’ll get baited, unless you actually have the group
shadow tusk
Frost set critting for 85k seems legit 
hollow river
Wft is only like 200ish dps isn’t it
halcyon zealot
i personally just leave all buffs on cause i use it as a comparison to other gear more than “this is the number of dps i should be doing”
it’s around 350 on my profile
narrow ravine
my sims say 9k and I got 8350 on guardian
halcyon zealot
that’s good.
narrow ravine
but yeah sims are doing stuff my guild isn't like WF totem
wintry mica
sims are also always fixed duration
if a fight time lines up with ur cds a bit better or worse it can make a difference
narrow ravine
true, when the boss dies does determine if you are in the peak or the valley of your cooldowns
limber lion
sims are also always fixed duration
Incorrect.
All sims have variance
They are not static sims whatsoever.
shadow tusk
spell variance, but not duration right?
narrow ravine
my kill was 4:41
limber lion
It's generally 10,000 iterations with 20% variance in both ways.
limber lion
spell variance, but not duration right?
No, there is duration variance.
Meaning when simming for 5mins, it sims anything between 4 to 6 minutes
dusk mason
hey guys if you dont have like 30% + crit. would it be better to go with unholy shards ? or still chase the frost shards ? ... how much more behind is unholy at this point ? roughly
limber lion
hey guys if you dont have like 30% + crit. would it be better to go with unholy ...
You need to sim it yourself.
wintry mica
limber lion
It's different for everyone.
shadow tusk
Your end goal should be looking towards frost tho
dark token
sylvanas dagger sucks lol https://i.imgur.com/0lskm9d.png
obtuse robin
thats a normal dagger we know
shadow tusk
0.9% sucks 
dark token
thats a normal dagger we know
this is heroic sim
narrow ravine
0.9% of people will get mythic sylvanas daggers
dark token
mythic dagger pretty good tho
obtuse robin
then sim it with bs/ds and the proper frost setup
dark token
this is bs/ds and proper frost setup
edited for heroic
kt shoulders will never drop
wintry mica
why would you expect upgrading an OH sylv dagger to heroic ilvl would give you that much dps
dark token
tbh i thought it would go MH
narrow ravine
I remember droptimizer was made to let you know what bonus rolls you should try for, doesn't make any sense now, you get what you get, there is no priority on gear if it drops nothing
dark token
double daggers
narrow ravine
you should prioritize getting this shoulder item, yeah sure thanks ill wish harder that it drops next time
wintry mica
ill trade my KT shoulders for a heroic dagger please
dark token
ill trade my KT shoulders for a heroic dagger please
deal
soft shale
phial gamerrr
cerulean nest
just need that sweet sweet daggy now
soft shale
i got dagger today so happy
cerulean nest
atta boy
soft shale
still need chest and ring from her still
obtuse robin
like 87 dps when ur 245 thats alot bro
wintry mica
Im hoping I get mine tomorrow
i finally got remnant dagger this week so at least i only have 1 220 korthia dagger
literally one wep drop since 9.1 released
narrow ravine
252 dagger from weekly
wintry mica
i had to take heroic remnant dagger from vault this week which just felt bad
halcyon zealot
yeah at this point in 9.0 i had 2 weps and phial from vault, haven’t seen either yet this patch
wintry mica
i got a totem from vault and then just upgraded a dropped phial
ran PF way too many times at the start of the season
is there a way to make a macro for a keybind to cast ambush during a proc, but another different spell the rest of the time
balmy condor
is there a way to make a macro for a keybind to cast ambush during a proc, but a...
!bs
prisma monolithBOT
Macroing Ambush to Mutilate only works with the use of a addon.
It comes with the downside that it often requires multiple key presss.
Suggested addon to use(Gnome Sequencer):http://tiny.cc/mxb6tz
Showcase Video: #assassination message
wintry mica
thanks whispyr ill just do it normally if it has that issue
wintry mica
yea, i just need to cave and actually expand my key binds that ive been using forever
drifting cloud
you can just never play bs 
wintry mica
i havent
drifting cloud
people did it last tier and its even more forgiving this tier
wintry mica
but its getting to the point where I will need to swap over soon or gimp myself a bit
hollow river
Wft is only like 200ish dps isn’t it
gusty adder
Does frost/scoundrel gain value off being vent compared to necro?
fallen arch
wintry mica
Wft is only like 200ish dps isn’t it
yea right around 210 with my sim
split furnace
guys do you if the totem trinket hits the wheels on painsmith?
hollow river
Yet
hollow river
guys do you if the totem trinket hits the wheels on painsmith?
Hits what youI target
wintry mica
does winds of winter always hit your target too?
cause i saw a guildies hit anduin during the p3 transition
hollow river
O.o
dusky vault
does winds of winter always hit your target too?
Hits your last crit target which is typically your current target
wintry mica
it was a frost mage so maybe he icelanced them both or something
cold rampart
dont tell me we go frost set
hollow river
We sure do
wintry mica
yep
cold rampart
fuck me
wintry mica
well sim yourself
hollow river
Ya sim of course
wintry mica
but frost once at r3 was better for me
hollow river
It’s better with a bit of higher ilvl gear and high crit
cold rampart
and tell me we go necrolord
winter vapor
iiiiis there any worth in logging M+ to be reviewed? or is it better for raids only?
hollow river
Nothing inherently wrong with it
But most people record their m+ gameplay and watch it
To look for mistakes and such
winter vapor
hm, not sure I have the time investment, just pulling some fairly low numbers just now (albeit, PF so)
dark token
just realized dashing scoundrel is totally a worse tier set
tier sets are so cool they were turned into legendary bonuses yet blizzard still rolled out shards
cold rampart
well sim yourself
100 dmg +
wintry mica
thats like all current legendaries almost lol
hollow river
What rank did you sim them at
cold rampart
4 and two 3
hollow river
Huh
wintry mica
the lowest ranked gem in the set determines the set bonus
woeful meteor
wasnt doomblade a tierset aswell
wintry mica
ye
dark token
lol
cold rampart
should i taste all at high rank?
hollow river
The thing with frost is you have to optimize by stacking crit and crafting Dashing gives a bit of a boost as well
wintry mica
frost will pull further ahead a t higher ranks and gear in general
cold rampart
The thing with frost is you have to optimize by stacking crit and crafting Dashi...
wait so doomblade isnt good with frost?
hollow river
1 portentous 2 foreboding
The set bonus would only be foreboding then
hollow river
wait so doomblade isnt good with frost?
It’s fine
narrow ravine
doomblade is fine with frost
hollow river
Dashing is just a little better
wintry mica
its still close but dashing is a bit better
narrow ravine
it CAN be better if your gear supports higher than 32% crit
dark token
so uhhh
harsh anchor
Are we in a cave ; bit of an echo in here
narrow ravine
sim yourself
wintry mica
new meta
dark token
archmage's greater incandescence is 15% agi
narrow ravine
hmm
hollow river
True
wintry mica
would be funny if it was actually decent
dark token
narrow ravine
10 seconds of extra agi vs the loss of about 200 secondary stats?
cold rampart
again i simmied both and the diff between max unholy and frost set is 60 dmg
wintry mica
so frost is still better
and the difference will probably grow as you get more gear
or dashing
narrow ravine
also sim different combinations of convenant abilies, found dashing to sim higher with lethal poisons rather than maim
gusty mirage
just realized dashing scoundrel is totally a worse tier set
well naturally, it's blizzard's MO
cold rampart
frost is much better LOL
hollow river
Lmao
gusty mirage
"here's something cool, we're going to take it away for no reason"
wintry mica
yea maim is usually used with doomblade but the extra poison damage works well with dashing
gusty mirage
3 years later "Here's that cool thing you liked, but worse. Enjoy!"
hollow river
LOL
idle star
Isnt the 3% dmg from dauntless better than a third conduit?
wintry mica
sometimes?
dauntless usually wins in sims but its not that far ahead of triple potency nadjia
idle star
Lethal poisons does sound good with dashing. Im swapping to assa next week when i get 262 dashing and rank 4 frost
wintry mica
nah i think talking about two different things
arctic hare
They're talking about dauntless
being better on Guardian specifically
but there are adds on the guardian fight?
arctic hare
"you'd go dauntless on guardian
but there's a lot of little adds and stuff"
wintry mica
there are not adds on guardian so i assume they are talking about in general for the raid there are fights with adds that wont get any benefit from dauntless
arctic hare
Good point
idle star
Yeh true. And frost wind can hit any target you crit in that window so lethal posions would be better on add fights, heck maybe even the FoK conduit?
wintry mica
i doubt you would get enough value out of FoK to run it
youd have to be casting fan a lot
prisma monolithBOT
Rogue Defensives usability: http://tiny.cc/q602uz
regal cape
So maybe I'm just cooked but did I read it here that dashing affects PB and Envenom
wintry mica
yea lol
strange python
!bs
prisma monolithBOT
Macroing Ambush to Mutilate only works with the use of a addon.
It comes with the downside that it often requires multiple key presss.
Suggested addon to use(Gnome Sequencer):http://tiny.cc/mxb6tz
Showcase Video: #assassination message
balmy condor
I did 2 bosses and then had to trial and shit and then got covid
Idk when I'll get to it
but I'll try to add a couple more
wintry mica
are people at least submitting things
wintry mica
I think i sent one in about fatescribe and cloaking the bomb not leaving one on the ground
wait the beam?>
i mean I guess its good to know but like shadowstep is way easier lol
balmy condor
wait the beam?>
the debuff from the eyes
drifting cloud
whispyr tell me why I should play ep/ds dashing
drifting cloud
am I gonna hate it
wintry mica
they really were concise at least
balmy condor
am I gonna hate it
probably, just stick to vigor and say you can pool more for uptime or some copium shit
wintry mica
is there a particular reason bs/ds gains value with dashing? just the extra energy not being as need with vig?
balmy condor
ye
drifting cloud
but its +70 dps
regal cape
Tbh bs ds didn't feel absolutelt terrible pre dashing
balmy condor
but its +70 dps
regal cape
At least on sire prog/kills
wintry mica
ep/vig is just so comfy though
drifting cloud
its ep/ds not bs/ds
oak sky
ep/ds am i having a stroke
wintry mica
I havent even been simming ep/ds i just force it to only do ep/vig and bs/ds
gotta save those iterations for all the dom shit
oak sky
is there a defensives list for m+ lieutenants
because i know you can evasion soggodon's slam
oak sky
its not that i need help with it i just was wondering if there was the list
sharp zodiac
Cloak the slow/Frost circle on frost man
oak sky
in the command
sharp zodiac
Oh lol
oak sky
thanks though
trail anvil
I recently switched from Necro to Venth, and was wondering if there are common problems people see with people's usage of Flag? and or just simple things that can be optimized really quick as venth
wary pawn
got 3 frost rank 4, should i upgrade them to rank 5 first or go dyz bek r4 too?
shy dust
@balmy condor you can precloak the damage from chains on Sylvannas
That is my contribution
balmy condor
I’m just screenshot that and post it in the channel I guess
shy dust
light marten
So is DS the best legendary on every boss in SoD?
idle star
got 3 frost rank 4, should i upgrade them to rank 5 first or go dyz bek r4 too?
Lol.... upgrade the set
wary pawn
i know i brainfarted hard
idle star
If you can get rank 5 frost you are blasting bro
Red Lollie Yellow Lorry... bet you cant say this 3 times fast
winter vapor
quite a few high ranking rogues on Raider io are using doomblade O.o
idle star
They prolly necro still
winter vapor
I thought Zold's was still the go too
for m+, unless the gear is saving for their 'raid' day
drifting cloud
thats probably just what they logout as
balmy condor
^
winter vapor
fair
wondered if they were being the ST dps in the group but surely sub is better for that
manic haven
If you’re at 5 CP already, should you ship then envenom or envenom then shiv lads?
thorny pond
Slam shiv
sinful remnant
!bs
prisma monolithBOT
Macroing Ambush to Mutilate only works with the use of a addon.
It comes with the downside that it often requires multiple key presss.
Suggested addon to use(Gnome Sequencer):http://tiny.cc/mxb6tz
Showcase Video: #assassination message
buoyant bay
do you put DS leggo on cloak?
soft shale
yes
buoyant bay
ty
deft obsidian
Gotta say, night one trying frost/DS is much slower paced but seems legit. Heaps of self healing too 
exotic hare
thorny pond
Farm Korthia treasures for the upgrade
If it’s that low 2-3 will bring you back to decent range
Sire and world boss are pretty quick now too
gusty mirage
@balmy condor yea I'll get to updating it this week hopefully
at least the raid stuff I know works
hollow river
Patience is key young Padewaan
idle star
Yep and we are behind trying to upgrade it. I spent 90 embers on unholy rank 4 right as the buffs happened.
cerulean nest
sucks
kind talon
Just play sub
cerulean nest
ok
kind talon
Don’t need frost
halcyon zealot
and upgrade blood set? bet brb
kind talon
No
kind talon
For basically every sub rogues profile that I’ve seen up to this point
With realistic gear
deft obsidian
R4 frost sin > r4 unholy sub for me at least 🤷♂️
hollow river
Heretic
kind talon
The blood shards sim higher than frost
hollow river
“Realistic gear”
kind talon
Of course if you play outlaw or sin frost is better
hollow river
🧐
kind talon
Oh yes I’m sorry I should have looked at the profiles with double sylv daggers and 60% crit
kind talon
I’m sorry 🙇♂️
kind talon
It’s tooo lateeee
deft obsidian
Can’t even get myself a hc one 
kind talon
Your attempts at trolling are appreciated. I will acknowledge you as a brother.
hollow river
My lack of even Lfr daggie will be double compensated when I get ce
100% guarantee you I don’t get sylvanas dagger ever
If I’m lucky I’ll get vein ripper
But I need dual vein ripper on my enhance and phial etc so I’m not even bothering with phial on rogue
normal plaza
!bis
mental fog
Sup guys, i realy need some help
here is my top sins
here is my guardiam logs
I have 1000 crit 754 haste 97 mastery 246 versa
My frost shards is lv 3
strange python
what leggo should i craft if i want to do m+ and raiding
mental fog
Some on can tell what i do wrong ?
limber lion
Some on can tell what i do wrong ?
First of all, you don't have an enhancement shaman in your raid. Try simming without it to get a more accurate picture.
mental fog
But can only the shamam change my log from blue to purple?
lavish stag
garrote , rupture could/should have more uptimes 90% is quite low
10 shiv casts in 4:30 min fight is also a bit low
limber lion
The second thing is that your garrote/rupture falls off quite a few times.
That is really bad.
Are you aware of pandemic?
!pd
prisma monolithBOT
Pandemic takes up to 30% of the duration of a applied dot/buff and adds it to your new applied one. The duration depends on the new instance.
Example: Garrote (18 sec) can be extended by up to 5.4 seconds from an existing instance.
Note: Pandemic applies to most but not all debuffs/buffs
halcyon zealot
why r u FoKing on guardian 
limber lion
The third thing is that you didn't sync Flag/Vend/Vanish together on a 4:33 fight. This already increases it by quite a bit.
Generally you don't want to do that, but on a fight length like that it's perfect for syncing them together and the sim would sync them.
wary ice
is ther anything special about using flag w/ obedience for assa besides the generic cooldown rules of thumb?
mental fog
10 shiv casts in 4:30 min fight is also a bit low
I try pool some energy to cast shiv
craggy oak
The third thing is that you didn't sync Flag/Vend/Vanish together on a 4:33 figh...
on a side note continuing when you snyc and when you dont, rule of thumb for when to sync and when to not. other than if you dont miss a cast
and would you hold for all 3 vendetas or jsut the last
strange python
so if im ass rogue and i want to only make one legendary what legendary do i make if i want to do m+ and raid
strange python
im necro
craggy oak
sorry idk then
craggy oak
i would say venth if you are hard on the i only want 1 leggo,
cos your other choices outside of obedience for 1 leggo fits all are some what slim
knotty glade
What frost gem is priority to level up first ? Necro Assasin here
craggy oak
but plenty of people play necro and prefere it
full tide
Much prefer Necro
made Dashing today
262
Zoldyck for M+
Deathspike crafted before bugs
hope they fix
very fun
full tide
I don't think playing Necro Assass is a thing if you are firm on making one
craggy oak
so either gunna have to farm more leggos or swap venth either way something will have to give if you want somehwat optimal leggos for multiple situations
full tide
cause Zol is quite far behind in ST
alpine garden
What's the name of the cloak version of dashing?
strange python
ig i could make 2 but i hate torghast
full tide
Dashing and DOomblade lose a lot of value
If you enjoy Necro Assass
just do the extra 20 mins or Torghast
make a rank 1 Zoldyck
for M+
or a rank 1 Dashing/Doomblade for raid
full tide
it hurts to suggest that
strange python
y
full tide
do your torghast bro
strange python
i will
craggy oak
dashing with high crit
strange python
or is it preference
full tide
check pins for info on Dashing + Frost set
strange python
and doom with no frost set?
strange python
ok
full tide
Doom is fine with Frost
strange python
i shall check
full tide
my 262 Doomblade simmed higher with Frost gems rank 4
compared to 235 Dashing
34% crit
was what I simmed at
I'm not aware of a specific break point
craggy oak
idk i dont paly freost but all i know is there is a certain crit value you want,
full tide
probably as much as you can get xd
bleak sky
My good GAMER fellas
regal cape
There isnt a hard crit break point
bleak sky
We're progging on nerzhul right now and for some reason the orb people can't throw them away
regal cape
Frost scales well with crit and with ilv
bleak sky
Do you have any tips to not bug the orbs?
regal cape
and is great for like 3 legos
hollow talon
We're progging on nerzhul right now and for some reason the orb people can't thr...
We had a dh and a mage and offtank do them
How is it bugging?
bleak sky
We had a dh and a mage and offtank do them
Yeah, our warriors are doing
They click it, pick it up and can't throw them away. They get the slow debuff permanently
hollow talon
whats the crit break point for frsot dashing
My stat weight said haste was slightly better and I'm at 44 so that sounds right
Isn't it like an extra action button to toss it away?
strange python
so as a beginner assassin
ill make r1 doomblade and r1 zold
well i have to wait for doomblade so i might dodashing
idk bro
im malding
regal cape
Doomblade is good, Obedience is great for multi speccing
craggy oak
he is necro
regal cape
Zold is good in dungeons
strange python
i might just go venthyr tbh
obtuse robin
do u care more about raid or m+
strange python
probably raid
obtuse robin
but
strange python
i just do like 1-4 15's for weekly cherst
craggy oak
then go venth
full tide
You don't need any legendary to do some weekly 15s
Just make Doomblade/Dashing to rank 6
bleak sky
Isn't it like an extra action button to toss it away?
Yes, but it sometimes bugs out. They're not braindead lmao
strange python
i might just making dashing then
craggy oak
also sin aoe is kinda trash, you are there for st, so smash the boses down and the power dudes
and youve done your job
bleak sky
also sin aoe is kinda trash, you are there for st, so smash the boses down and t...
it's pretty decent on M+ not gonna lie
bleak sky
you get 10k+ every pull no problems
craggy oak
only lying to your self
regal cape
Dashing is a bit niche as a first lego
craggy oak
you aint ever gunna be doing crazy aoe
craggy oak
its consistant
bleak sky
~20k on aoe with cooldowns, 10-12k without them
regal cape
Like if you are swapping venth, Obedience/Doomblade is a very good combo
bleak sky
how is outlaw st
it's giga good with gear
regal cape
and gives you a very good lego for trying other specs
craggy oak
like i said consistant
bleak sky
it won't do 50k burst like a shaman
and once the burst settles you'll even it out
it's good, it's just not flashy
craggy oak
was going with the idea of he dont need to worry about a m_ leggo if he does 4 a weeek
and was jsutifying why
strange python
so as of now im making dashing at highest rank as necro
sinful citrus
Is there anything other than mythic raid and the weekly jailer forces quest that you can get embers from if you full clear heroic?
strange python
ig generally it doesnt matter that much because im not top end player
regal cape
It sounds like you just want to make dashing
which you can
but like doomblade is probably going to be more useful to you
strange python
i cant craft it this week
regal cape
yee
regal cape
Dashing is mostly part of using high rank frost set with high ilv
Feel frree to sim for yourself
strange python
a few people told me ass is better for a newer rogue palyer
regal cape
and close
craggy oak
but fuck the pirate spec
bleak sky
thats why idk what spec to play or what is decent rn
all 3 are real good
strange python
the only reason im really leveling and gearing a rogue is because my guild needs one
but im also the only monk lmao
craggy oak
guild needs rogue?
full tide
That makes
regal cape
?
craggy oak
they do nothing
final bough
shadowgrasp or IQD
sinful citrus
Who else is gonna stealth us before the pull?
craggy oak
i levels?
strange python
aight gg my rogue time was fun
sinful citrus
Big raid utility /s
craggy oak
maz said they were thinking about rogue in prog but took spriest instead cos they were ranges and did same st
so says it all
about "need"
craggy oak
taken time off work, got in worlds best guilds, sorry gotta bench ya cos bliz said no
strange python
so basically
fucking playing rogue in progression if ur the only monk in the guild
craggy oak
ye would be a throw
and all other phys dps dealer will be sad
and will be a overall dps loss
hollow river
cos of rng
thats literally every RWF
harsh harbor
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
craggy oak
how so previous tier
and was it in legion when they were making like 5+ of their classes for leggo rng, but nothing quite as abd as this shard shit
harsh harbor
Anyone have a solid plater profile for tracking Rupture and Garrote?
harsh harbor
thx
shell ivy
thats epic
balmy condor
wait does it glow on pandemic
Yeh
shell ivy
limber lion
Yeh, I personally prefer them so I don't miss anything
Each to their own
Whispyr has a king profile as well
balmy condor
Yuh
harsh anchor
Whispyr profile bis ngl
balmy condor
void pecan
Hit me with that platter profile whispyr
balmy condor
void pecan
bless.
deep nimbus
How many targets do you multidot in M+? Is it just 4 targets with garrote/rupture and 8 with tempest?
craggy oak
4 garrrotes, from stealth. ct and as many ruptures as you can
balmy condor
Everything that lives long enough
craggy oak
on mobs taht will live
balmy condor
You should only be envenoming to keep up slide and dice, or once things are going to start dying
deep nimbus
Oh okay thanks...I mained shadow for the longest time so I'm used to being a fake multidotter, gotta get used to playing a real one
dark token
4 garrrotes, from stealth. ct and as many ruptures as you can
MA in m+
fok -> rupture -> fok -> rupture garrote
then fok CT and spam fok rupture
outer lodge
I'm running necro+doomblade - running 252 wps + 226 sudden fractures, but 226 maim and mangle is now simming higher than sudden fractures. Should I just swap or is it still wroth using Sudden Fractures for some reason?
half tartan
SOrry to ask a maybe dumb question, but do you deathly shadows as assassin?
balmy condor
No
obtuse robin
how do i sim feast vs crit food
balmy condor
how do i sim feast vs crit food
!oil
prisma monolithBOT
Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ
balmy condor
Has it included
dark token
it was always annoying garroting 4 things now i can fok safely from range
i wont play deeper tho even though sim tells me MA + deeper + obedience is the m+ play
way too little energy
balmy condor
Oh you mean ma talented
dark token
yes
dark token
.3 difference to play deeper so MA + vigor feels a lot better
i can actually do like 25k on bigger pulls vs subterfuge always capped like 15k
balmy condor
Yeah sin m+ is a kinda weird place atm
wide ridge
would you guys go frost+dashing or unholy+obedience on M the nine?
dark token
Frost dashing every boss tbh
balmy condor
frost dashing everywhere
dark token
I had issues capping energy with 3 targets on the nine so I went ep vigor
balmy condor
ep vig
wide ridge
kinda crazy as f
ebon patio
Hey, qq, when a pack spawns inside mots labyrinth it always breaks me out of stealth if I'm kind of close, is this expected behaviour or a bug?
hoary holly
noob question: do I run zoldyck for M+ and doomblade for raids?