And raid
#assassination
regal cape
strange python
ventyre?
strange python
obediance?
regal cape
Obedience/finality
Finality is great in dungeons, but obedience isn't far behind and has the flexibility of working for sub in raid/sin in raid/sin in m+
strange python
obediance can be good for sub in m+ or i really need finality
regal cape
Obedience is fine for sub, it's my 0nly 262 lego so I always use it. You'll miss out on a bit of consistent aoe damage. But unless you're in a coordinated group it won't really matter. I'd just build Obedience for the diversity
strange python
oh ok
cuz i got obediance 235 and doomblade 235 and idk what to craft next dashing finality or celerity if i got outlaw xD
but at least they are all cloak excepte for celerity
regal cape
I mean for 235s you lose nothing but gold to just fuck around and build whatever lego. If you Sim dashing a bit and find a scenario it excels in for you I'd build that. Or if you want to try more sub build finality for dungeons with bigger average pulls.
strange python
is not gold problem is soul ashe tought 2k each week when 235 cost 5100 xD
granite scaffold
How far behind is kyrian from venthyr, thinking of playing assasination for fun but don’t want to switch
shut flame
Checked yesterday top rio sins, they all running heirmir in m+, tho marileth sims higher at least for me. Is it due to some specific scenarios or playstyle or whatever, that makes heirmir better overall?
olive peak
Checked yesterday top rio sins, they all running heirmir in m+, tho marileth sim...
It's just better for high m+ due to SBS... Heirmir is good because it's +3% agility and 18% crit on every pack pretty much
shut flame
Well, dslice should take that, and still
fallen arch
Checked yesterday top rio sins, they all running heirmir in m+, tho marileth sim...
What does Marileth sim higher on for you? Dungeon slice?
shut flame
Yep
fallen arch
Cos that’s a bit of a funny sim
It’s to be taken with a big grain of salt
So try em both out for yourself I’d say and see what is better in the real world
fiery mauve
Ya but preemptive strike is pretty pog no?
Also the buffs from marileth based on dung
Prolly aren’t included in sims
shut flame
On the other side, mnemonic device does pretty much small amount of damage
balmy condor
It’s to be taken with a big grain of salt
just wanna say that dungeonslice is completely fine, accurate, and trustworthy
timid talon
going to sim for bis only in dslice now
balmy condor
for m+? sure, go for it
fallen arch
Oh ye I mean, use it to see what might be good for m+
But it’s just not the same as a patchwerk sim
pseudo hamlet
Whispyr, are you back? 😄
fallen arch
For instance, does it take into account restealths with shadowmeld as NE?
Does it take into account double/triple pulls?
Which have bigger impact on overall dps in a dungeon than 3 more of secondary a than b
shut flame
Nop, afaik, 5 targets there, in sample
balmy condor
For instance, does it take into account restealths with shadowmeld as NE?
had to double check this one, no it doesn't, think that's a NE specific thing because of how sims handle restealths
balmy condor
Does it take into account double/triple pulls?
technically yes, it goes up to 9 targets, which is above the cap
for what it's worth, higher pull count dungeonslices have been tested, including adding in prides/lieutenants and routes that people like gingi/jpc/naowh/dorki ran on 23/24's last season, and the difference in evaluation doesn't really shift at all
balmy condor
Whispyr, are you back? 😄
not 100%, I'm lurking and dipping my head in every now and then, soon 
clear plover
Does venth sin is better than necro (bug fixed)?
timid talon
for st, yes
clear plover
trying to see if is still good for doing some m+ and raid
fallen arch
for what it's worth, higher pull count dungeonslices have been tested, including...
Good to know, thanks
balmy condor
any time homie
balmy condor
Everything ok?
fallen arch
Ah damn, stay strong dude. Hope you feel better
dark token
Serious question to all sin players why don't you guys play feral, it's like sin but more dmg, a more fun rotation, and you get flight/travel form and shit which is overpowered as hell for quality of life
dark token
Ive been considering swapping to feral for that reason
balmy condor
<a:ANAzusaGiggle:816303653442158654>
oak sky
aw man sorry to hear ur having a rough time whispyr
fallen arch
Serious question to all sin players why don't you guys play feral, it's like sin...
Cos you look like a dog while doing it
Takes out the fun for me
sharp zodiac
Rest up whispyr! Sorry to hear!
pale plank
does it matter which shards goes into which gear? or i can just socket when gear socket i have available?
oak sky
i think it only matters that you have the set bonus piece
arctic walrus
does it matter which shards goes into which gear? or i can just socket when gear...
the only thing that matters is to have the appropriate slot that enables set bonuses. This would be helm (unholy) shoulders (frost) and chest (blood) other than that, you are free, even in those pieces, to socket whatever into them
pale plank
alright, and how do u get high than rank 2 shards?
wait nvm
i had to open the shop again and i was fine
fallen arch
Serious question to all sin players why don't you guys play feral, it's like sin...
I think because most guys here want to be versatile with the other specs
Also it might be more damage rn, but that’s not always the case
drowsy coral
Isn't feral slower than assa on ST and completely different in AoE ?
fallen arch
No clue, never tried it. Also I just checked and it doesn’t sim better for t27 bis now
brisk orchid
Feral is slower than Sin yeah, I mained it for 8 years before going rogue this tier
polar matrix
!pd
prisma monolithBOT
Pandemic takes up to 30% of the duration of a applied dot/buff and adds it to your new applied one. The duration depends on the new instance.
Example: Garrote (18 sec) can be extended by up to 5.4 seconds from an existing instance.
Note: Pandemic applies to most but not all debuffs/buffs
grizzled orbit
Can anyone tell me why my boots keep simming without a frost shard in the socket? I def have one in the slot. https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/bQavBL2BGJyhckpeZ5hw9w
balmy condor
you hit replace gems and only selected 3 gems
but you have 4 slots that can use gems
leaving one empty
grizzled orbit
right!!! I had one blood equipped. Thanks Weebspyr.
balmy condor
pleasure
limber lion
@balmy condor 
hollow river
nova crypt
What Legendary are y'all playin in m+ ?
limber lion
Zoldyck for everything.
nova crypt
Does it scale in Solo Target better too?
oak sky
@limber lion do you run obe in any content?
nova crypt
Ok so zoldyck for m + and raid? Played doomblade in raid so far
oak sky
doomblade is better in raid
limber lion
<@!165215952479322112> do you run obe in any content?
Personally, no.
But always sim yourself 
oak sky
i dont have obe crafted
limber lion
Ok so zoldyck for m + and raid? Played doomblade in raid so far
Zoldyck for m+, Doom/Dashing/Obe for raid.
oak sky
but i figured if you did then it might be a good idea to at least test it 
nova crypt
Zoldyck for m+, Doom/Dashing/Obe for raid.
Ok nice ty m8, i'll try it
timid talon
dashing + frost feels powerful too, seeing those winds crits is just 
dark token
I personally sim quite a bit higher with obe in m+ over zoldyck
ornate lake
Keep in mind that zoldyck is really easy to use, always will have 100% uptime. With obe you have to press that button every instant it comes of cd and have enough uptime to build 20+ stacks.
dark token
Also dashing scoundrel is kinda weird it's actually good in cleave too
ornate lake
If you want the Sim value of it
dark token
Extra energy
ornate lake
In m+ you are gcd capped anyway. Enough bleeds is max energy already
dark token
Since I have 262 dashing and 235 everything else it actually is best for me to run dashing In all content
sudden canyon
Why is finding a sylvanas pug on na alliance so duckin cheeks
ornate lake
With enough I ment 5 bleeds. That's the sweets pot
dark token
Why is finding a sylvanas pug on na alliance so duckin cheeks
Group with oce players
I'm serious
fallen arch
Why is finding a sylvanas pug on na alliance so duckin cheeks
Hc?
sudden canyon
I need my dagger game
dark token
Oce is the only good alliance region
sudden canyon
Yes what time do the oce boys come on
timid talon
Oce is the only good alliance region
also the most toxic
sudden canyon
I got lucky enough to have some boys from the alliance first 10/10m I’m my clear last week but they couldn’t stay for sylv that was sad
fallen arch
Find a guild to do it with?
dark token
Get online like 6pm oce on reset day you will find some blaster pugs
fallen arch
Finding pugs is a lottery for that kind of boss
dark token
Or right at NA reset in general
Also I don't get why sylvanas HC is hard? Literally seems easier than fatescribe/KT
sudden canyon
My buddy logged on 30 minutes ago found a group and killed it in 2 pulls.
grizzled orbit
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/hGDgCCxpjJvDFQdQRMiTZt I finally got a 10k sim. 
sudden canyon
I have a lockout I’m just nervous to RL it. I know the fight as a melee only and I can’t be bothered to coordinate healer cds
grizzled orbit
R5 frost <:thonk:516310701791510539>
ill be there in like 2 weeks. +whatever gear I get between now and then, it will be over. Don't kill my vibe man!!
kind talon
I have a lockout I’m just nervous to RL it. I know the fight as a melee only and...
For sylvanas?
timid talon
ill be there in like 2 weeks. +whatever gear I get between now and then, it will...
was going to welcome you to the club but ill hold off on the trophy for now
pale plank
wowhead guide is recommending to use sharpening stone for both wep, but i have see lots of top parse go with one sharperning stone on one wep and shadowcore oil on the other
which one should i go with?
cunning star
!oil
prisma monolithBOT
Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ
cunning star
Run that simulation and just go with its recommendations.
timid talon
Dashing seems to be simming lower than doomblade for me, even with frost rank 4
same ilvl cloaks too
prisma monolithBOT
timid talon
I think its because i have a 252 maim and mangle
tropic pike
even if i wanna go kinda ST build cos its tyrannical
fallen arch
Yes even then
Its not worth to run doomblade
Cos doomblade does nothing for you in aoe
Zoldyck solid on all situations
rotund drift
genuine question: why isnt essence of bloodfang considered a good choice for m+? wouldnt it be really good with fan of knoves?
arctic walrus
What it do
fallen arch
also on tyrannical is it worth running poison bomb?
Helll no
fallen arch
genuine question: why isnt essence of bloodfang considered a good choice for m+?...
If fok was uncapped, maybe
rotund drift
What it do
combo point generators have a chance to apply a 6sec dot
limber lion
It just doesn't sim well enough
rotund drift
ah ok
limber lion
It's just worse than Zoldyck
rotund drift
tyvm for the honest answer !
rotund drift
yeah, on paper it sounds fucking awsome xD
thing is, i cant really go for master assassin cuz my tank doesnt really appeal to it ahha
fallen arch
Run zold?
slow marsh
thing is, i cant really go for master assassin cuz my tank doesnt really appeal ...
Your tank doesn't appeal to letting the rogue restealth? Rip rogue
Id say learn sub then
cursive silo
U need to restealth as sub
arctic walrus
It's just worse than Zoldyck
Zold enthusiast not a obe believer?
arctic walrus
U need to restealth as sub
Not really
cursive silo
Gives 10 sec snd and 4 cp pog
slow marsh
Press shuriken and snd
arctic walrus
Or you just storm and get a 40s snd and 6cp
cursive silo
Imagine losing a gcd
slow marsh
Must be tough
But yes thematically it doesn't make a ton of sense that the spec that heavily leans into stealth and shadows relies the least on stealth as an ability even compared to pirate sword boys
cursive silo
Well it doesn’t rely on it because its so stealthy it can do stealth things with shadows 🤔
rotund drift
Id say learn sub then
nah sub is too much weeb xD
slow marsh
Not getting restealths in keys is kind of hard trolling
rotund drift
the 20s still worked out, so idc xd
ancient kraken
restealthing is overrated unless you play MA. you lose to much time
whole mason
May I ask if there is a specific reason that vendetta is cast after flag in sims?
shadow pivot
restealthing is more of an outlaw thing now
vast forum
is subterfuge not a reason enough to stealth?
cloud nymph
Hai, sorry to bother, but I see that EP + Vigor is favored over Blindside + Stratagem, I just don't understand why
And I really dislike not understanding things I play haha
sinful cradle
Preference and its better with extra adds during the fight
cursive silo
Slightly different damage profile
noble umbra
does anyone know/have a good pandemic WA
static glacier
May I ask if there is a specific reason that vendetta is cast after flag in sims...
Perhaps to maximise the post flag buff uptime in vendetta?
shut garnet
its not necessarily the post flag that u vendetta, its post both bleeds being applied
and obvs u always open with a flag->rupture
vast forum
i think a 30% stronger initial flag would be more valuable than that 1 sec of bleed, no?
kind talon
whats the argument here
whole mason
It is not just the opener, but it is in example exec listed that flag is always before vendetta if sync'd
That's why I wondered.
kind talon
vendetta before or after flag is pretty minimal
split furnace
My opener: mut-snd-garrote-mut til 5-6 cp-vendetta-flag-rupture-mut til 5-6 cp-shiv-vanish-env-mut-env-normal rot
sinful cradle
If youre playing MA talent you want to swap garrote and muti around
Some people also do flag rupt shiv vendetta vanish muti env muti
Other than that looks decent enough
split furnace
Thank you sir
During m+ bosses we do use ctempest or never touch it?
Single target bosses I mean
sinful cradle
Outside of shiv windows
steel geyser
Mut snd mut garrote flag rupture vendetta shiv vanish mut env mut
Is the usual opener
With some mut added if ur unlucky
On crits
split furnace
Always flag at max Cp or even -1 is fine?
steel geyser
Ye
And you use CT on ST
Outside of shiv
Only
You should read the #assassination-faq it answers all of this and maybe more!
split furnace
Thank you sir I sure will 🙏
shut garnet
i think a 30% stronger initial flag would be more valuable than that 1 sec of bl...
its the fact that u also get 2gcds extra in vendetta near the end, which usually is like an extra envenom or so
so then the q becomes is a 30% initial flag better than a 30% mut envenom
random fossil
lads are we staying with heirmir?
vast forum
so then the q becomes is a 30% initial flag better than a 30% mut envenom
it's initial flag + the 5 lashes from rupture
which is pretty huge if u ask me
90% sure it should outweigh 30% env + mut
vast forum
well, the question was more along the lines of "were both options simmed"
shut garnet
@balmy condor 
balmy condor
<@!167090536602140682> <:AYAYA:619222826909564938>
fallen arch
Even if other class is Hunter and warrior?
Doesn’t matter what ur running with
quasi venture
Get better matey 
fallen arch
Absolutely no reason not to run ct in any dungeon
It’s usually ur top damaging ability overall
Poison super meh
And unpredictable
balmy condor
well, the question was more along the lines of "were both options simmed"
btw yes they were
slim jay
Is zoldyks still the play for tyrannical?
I tried a 16 pf with doomblade to see how it would be for tyrannical. Seemed my iverall dps suffered.
But maybe i just played bad
quasi venture
its not bad. more beneficial for higher key then 15s ofc. but overall you still get more value then with doomblade.
fallen arch
The problem is that doomblade just does nothing for any type of aoe situation
And Zoldyck is a litte behind db in single target, but it has value in everything
frozen zenith
so is doomblade > obedience rn?
for raid
because from what I see almost every top parse uses doomblade, sometimes dashing
fallen arch
Hard to say what’s best for you
frozen zenith
ik sim yourself but Im talking in general
fallen arch
Might be one of those three
frozen zenith
hm aight
fallen arch
In general I think in the end dashing will be best
quasi venture
well in general with full bis gear the choice would be dashing so
fallen arch
With the best kind of gear
quasi venture
none of the above
frozen zenith
ye true
clever vapor
Would someone be so kind to send me the frost shoulders string so I can sim myself please? Ilvl and stats don't matter?
quasi venture
Would someone be so kind to send me the frost shoulders string so I can sim myse...
what do you mean? you can gear compare em in raidbots. dont need a string for it.
whole mason
btw yes they were
Thanks for the clarification.
quasi venture
if thats what you mean.
quasi venture
shoulder=,id=186298,gem_id=187308,bonus_id=7188/6652/1485/6646
but
that is so not worth it
you have to change the gem id
if you dont want unholy
quasi venture
ofc, but you want to sim a pair of shoulders you dont have correct? with a dom socket to active frost bonus right?
clever vapor
yeah
quasi venture
yea you can do that in gear compare, there is a option to put any rank gem in the item you choose.
and the string will still take your other gems with it so your head hands etc
clever vapor
I'll check it out since I haven't really used that 😄
pure niche
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
clever vapor
Thanks for the help!
quasi venture
np.
lusty surge
does anyone know what the syntax would be for custom APL in raidbots to force a trinket to sync with vendetta?
i tried "actions+=/use_item,name=salvaged_fusion_amplifier,sync=vendetta" but i get an error
warm parcel
safe rover
do you like having up to 900 main stat
pallid spear
a setbonus is around 1000dps(depending on rank). if its important to do absolute maximum dps then well theyre important
pallid spear
if they actually raid then yes i think so
takes like 3 ids on average, 1 if you are omegalucky and 5 if you are unlucky id say
and u can get 1 in 1 id but i may not be the one you want
twin prism
yeah this week i got 1 shard total
i already started 2 weeks late
so im pretty fucked
pallid spear
thats kinda sadge, only the1 dropped by sylvanas?
twin prism
yep....
pallid spear
damn im sorry mate
pallid spear
happened to our prot pally too but he straight up looted unholy bonus the ID after
ill pray for you 🙏
twin prism
ahhahahahah thanks
bleak sky
whispyr 
lethal zodiac
31 pf runs still no trinket should I consider stop playing wow
fallen arch
So much more sweet if it drops now
You’ll get 3 in a row now +1 in the vault
That’s how it works
lethal zodiac
So you're saying i should go for run 32
wary pawn
31 pf runs still no trinket should I consider stop playing wow
same boat
lethal zodiac
I wasnt in any other dungeon besides pf since I have ksm
pallid spear
thank god i only had to do 4 runs with 4 trader 😶🌫️
burnt star
Yepper
tawdry sparrow
Drop rate of that thing is stupid.. also over 20runs atm
burnt star
We have to many loot option on that damn dungeon
tawdry sparrow
Not even sure if its worth it to grind tbf
tawdry sparrow
I have the ooze trinket on 252 atm.. if you look at bloodmallet the gains aint huge
Unless am reading wrong
lethal zodiac
tawdry sparrow
Ok 😊
lethal zodiac
next run for sure
fallen arch
Poor guy
tawdry sparrow
@burnt star just simmed it.. 246 would be 50dps increase.. not sure if its worth to torture myself lol
real bay
yuge
frigid kestrel
I refuse to hard farm Phial again, last time I farmed is I got one out of the vault two days later.
subtle tundra
ill have to do my 4th grind for it on monk soon, looking forward to it!
Said noone ever.
burnt star
50 is big. Also consider that u will never change it
real bay
+164 from my 226
wintry cloud
I only saw one in all these runs, but it does exist, trust.
carmine latch
do you have to spend 2500 stygia to pull out domination shard in order to uppgrade it everytime?
spare python
fastest way to farm 2k stygia ?
carmine latch
I know the Helsworn Chest up where the world boss is at, in the maw, drops 250 stygia acc bound. You could pick those up on alts, dont know if its up weekly or daily.
pale plank
Run around the maw killing rares, doing the dailies, the assault
peak musk
scoundrel is crit/haste? cant sim stat weights atm 😮
pale plank
For me yes, crit/haste sims better for me out of all the other stats
exotic hare
crit/vers or crit/haste on legendary back?
manic pebble
do I always use BS when it procs or use it when my energy is low?
pale plank
do most people already have a set bonus?
Try to maximize ur runs, do LFR, Normal, and heroic every week, I got super lucky and I got it doing only normal and lfr in 2weeks
I don’t have a single sylv dagger, but are u guys running 2sylv dagger? Or one and tanglewood thorn?
pale plank
Oh so I don’t have to farm for that god damn mist daggers?
Man I am tired of doing that dungeon already
thick wagon
were all 3 bugs of SBS fixed? or just the 2?
arctic hare
I should probably try to use droptimizer
pale plank
U should and it’s easy to use
arctic hare
Lol, okay
Hmm, should I sim for 252 weekly chest? since I probably won't be doing a 15 this week
lethal zodiac
go for 246
arctic hare
I just went for the one I had, so 246 is good for now
lethal zodiac
since im sure that is the highest itemlvl that you can upgrades items to
prisma cypress
if doomblade and obedience are close in dps, does one tend to pull ahead with more gear, or do they stay about the same relative to each other?
uneven hamlet
if doomblade and obedience are close in dps, does one tend to pull ahead with mo...
dashing is the way
thick wagon
dashing is the way
unless you are necro for some reason and doomblade pulls ahead from the bleed bonus to envenom
uneven hamlet
unless you are necro for some reason and doomblade pulls ahead from the bleed bo...
even for necro, dashing pulls ahead in high gear (at least in mine sims)
prisma cypress
i'm 230 right now, mythic gear is a long ways away for me, trying to decide which piece to craft right now
with the understanding that dashing scoundrel frost will probably be the play in the long run
devout spire
is it normal that the Kel-trinket use-effect cant crit?
rocky sluice
I’m open to any argument or criticism but honestly guys, doom blade , obedience , and dashing scoundrel are all very close to each other
quasi venture
well. not really. but they are. but still not really.
rocky sluice
Yeah lol. Is DS the best one now? Hard to say
quasi venture
with frost shards and right amount of stats dashing beats the shit out of the rest. dashing with unholys not so much, obediance is great.. for somethings. Doomblade works great even with frost shards. but 262 dashing beats doomblade 
prisma cypress
i guess i'll go with obedience for now and then craft DS in the future
rocky sluice
I am salty for making my doom blade 262 already
prisma cypress
doomblade sims 20-25 dps higher than obedience for me currently, but i'd feel bad making a 262 knowing that there will come a time when it's useless
quasi venture
well as @limber lion showed yesterday in his sim is that his 262 doomblade sims higher then a 235 dashing with frost. so its not a giga waste, so you will have time to scrap soul cinders to craft a dashing in 262 without loosing to much.
burnt star
235 dashing with rank 4 frost beats my doomblade/uh combo. And also beats my doomblade/r4 frost
zealous talon
Hello guys! Can obidience still compete with doomblade and dashing scoun in ST and M+?
ornate lake
Yeah it is dependant on your crit rate. So you have to sim yourself.
zealous talon
Kk ty!
fiery fable
is dashing good to use in m+? or is zolycks still the better legendary?
ornate lake
Zoldyck is best
You can use dashing in m+ but only the poison crit is beneficial. You're already energy capped due to amount of bleeds. Zoldyck has higher value and on every target as well.
fiery fable
okay cool thanks! i was also wondering if the frost set/ds leggo good if im necrolord as well
fathom flax
so ive got a 235 obed (wasted) and a 235 doom, seems i should make a 235 zolds and a 262 dashing
then make zolds 262 down the road
and hopefully not worry about legendaries for the rest of patch
shadow pivot
We still have 8 months atleast until 9.2 you'll have plenty of 262s down that road no worries
fathom flax
its not the ash or whatever its just the gold sink
i have like 3m but i dont like spending it on shit thatll be outdated
exotic hare
235 cloak is 40k for me on tarren mill eu
real bay
12k silvermoon
red plaza
Can always buy the mats and tip a crafter to make it for you. Everybody should at least have 40+korthite by now
burnt star
i sell all the korthite i get
limber lion
!oil
prisma monolithBOT
Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ
limber lion
He's just taking a slight break from Ravenholdt.
ashen creek
Anyone have a nice plater profile for assa keys? Just swapped to it
ashen creek
https://wago.io/gf0Dg_Ujr
Thank you!
terse talon
https://wago.io/gf0Dg_Ujr
im using ceverions plater profile but added the No Rupture mod, really nice addition for m+ 🙂
agile geode
Cev u swap back to necro?
limber lion
No, not yet.
sudden canyon
how is dashing in M+
limber lion
It's okay, not the best.
sudden canyon
i was guessing its decent in trash heavy dungos with the FoK conduit.
icy mason
is there any specific trigger that causes my flagellation to start at 1 stack and never progress beyond 1 stack for its entire duration
limber lion
is there any specific trigger that causes my flagellation to start at 1 stack an...
It gets parried.
icy mason
oh okay cool. so its something i can prevent. thanks
exotic hare
Does anyond play assasin in m+? Hows your overall dmg
limber lion
Depends on the dungeon, usually around 10k+
exotic hare
What leg are you usin?
limber lion
Zoldyck.
exotic hare
Best trinket i should aim for next to phial
wild birch
limber lion
Phial + Fusion Amp is the best combo.
Sack of terror is a good alternative, but not the best when you're at higher ilvl as it's capped to 233 and falls behind others at 246+
exotic hare
Aight thanks
rocky sluice
dashing leggo missives are crit/haste, yeah?
dark token
going dashing scoundrel makes crit so good it outvalues my fusion amplifier, making eye of the jailer trinket bis
slow marsh
dashing leggo missives are crit/haste, yeah?
Yes
slow marsh
going dashing scoundrel makes crit so good it outvalues my fusion amplifier, mak...
You might not have enough crit then, or your fusion amp isn't high enough
rancid pier
Is scoundrel good with uh too or just frost?
pale plank
does cloak of shadows block those fatescribe intermission balls?
manic pebble
does cloak of shadows block those fatescribe intermission balls?
yes
pale plank
alright thanks
alpine garden
Whats the easiest way to sim different shard sets? Just add them all under top gear?
fallen arch
Whats the easiest way to sim different shard sets? Just add them all under top g...
Yes
And I think u have to tick the box to remove current shards
alpine garden
Cool, cheers
silver loom
for m+ it's still zoldyck the go to if u aren't venthyr?
fallen arch
Yes
silver loom
even on tyrannical?
fiery mauve
Zoldyck is stronk
I prefer it to obedience in m+
Mostly since you can’t really hit 27+ stacks
Preference ofc
silver loom
i just like doomblade a lot, i have obedience but returned to necro
silver loom
i see
sand sigil
whats the qualitative explanation for why lethal poisons starting to outperform SF this tier as opposed to last? dashing increasing poison crit chance id assume?
fallen arch
Does it?
sand sigil
cuz i wanted to run sf in bonesmith so id only have to swap conduits 4 times for raid per week which is sustainable, but if i gotta run cto + sleight outlaw and steel + lethal poisons sin, then i gotta run plague deviser for outlaw ://
well all the top sims running lethal over sf
bonesmith
fallen arch
Hmm
sand sigil
st anyways im not sure about boss + add or dslice
fallen arch
Back to the sims for me then
sudden canyon
does dahsing affect PB
scenic kelp
hey guys my sims say this https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/5K9bBvQmHtGjg8V9FroAHx https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/j3w1wqJ1s5KNPnc6ZoowQd but more ppl are going on nadjia. should i go for nadja or theotar for raid?
arctic walrus
@sand sigil link a sim so i can just look at it through your own profile
astral plover
Fk me, i cant decide to go either Unholy or Frost
somber breach
Same here, does anyone know if frost set bonus is potentially more consistent than UH?
I am 1 week away from r5 unholy. but with no tuning, frost > unholy at rank5. at least for my sims since I can hit 40% crit
fallen arch
Frost is just better
I wanted to commit to unholy too but it makes no sense at this point
somber breach
unholy can cuck you if you don't have high stacks going into your shiv/vanish/envenom window
so I can see frost being more consistent
mighty bolt
Will frost shards outperform unholy ones at which point?
somber breach
you'll have to sim it. for me its r4 frost outsims my r4 unholy and r3 frost is only 8 dps behind
mortal pike
Also it dpeends on your gear
somber breach
that's also w/ 235 dashing against my 262 doomblade
somber breach
same, but aren't you missing out on the crit synergy?
mortal pike
you dont need it
At least for m
me
I need like
44% crit before dashing really takes over
mighty bolt
I don’t want to swap leggo 😦
It’s the same for venthyr and necro? Or some covenant are more oriented for frost and other for unholy?
alpine garden
Well after much messing about on raidbots, it appears that unholy and frost shards are within 1dps of each other for me, so yaaaay
slow marsh
does dahsing affect PB
No
slow marsh
well all the top sims running lethal over sf
Yeah higher conduit lethal poisons outweighs the bleed ticks over time for sin. I don't envy how you have to choose one or the other D=
slow marsh
Poison and envenom
fallen arch
Well after much messing about on raidbots, it appears that unholy and frost shar...
For now maybe
Sim em at rank 5 both
fallen arch
Well after much messing about on raidbots, it appears that unholy and frost shar...
Also don’t forget that as your gear becomes better, frost is likely to pull ahead
regal cape
Yooo anyone else have a warlock in their raid team just decide to swap to ENH for the melee homies
fallen arch
That’s a selfless thing to do..
regal cape
Hes an aff player who hates the other options, and hates lock this tier. Hoping he =enjoys melee, but yea kinda pog for the team. We have arms, DH, Fost dk, then I sub/sin. So kinda perfect
Is rogue still not benefiting on OH swings from Windfury. Or am I mis remembering
fervent rune
I believe rouges are top behind arms warrior for benefit from it
So I’m guessing that’s not the case
limber lion
That's the whole shenanigans we had at one point
where people were theorizing playing Dashing + PB in M+
slow marsh
Fuck me
limber lion
(Ended up being worse than Zoldyck + CT, but eh, it's fun to test stuff)
sudden canyon
anybody thats recently swapped from BS/DS to EP/vigor?
slow marsh
And I remember the talks about that too
slow marsh
Even worse. I'm getting boomer brain....I need a break
balmy condor
whats the qualitative explanation for why lethal poisons starting to outperform ...
this is correct btw SF is still pretty much go-to with doomblade
fervent rune
Sf?
neon cloak
dashing + MP? is a no no?
neon cloak
noted
fervent rune
Ahh gotcha
sudden canyon
i seen sum1 share a SS where their dom gear showed the ranks of all their shards. any1 know what that is?
addon or WA
arctic walrus
better than what
fervent rune
Sim it
sudden canyon
how do u guys play KT? do you bother rupturing tank ads that are far
fervent rune
I would probably keep UH at rank 4 seeing how frost will pull ahead overtime if not already
cedar star
I would probably keep UH at rank 4 seeing how frost will pull ahead overtime if ...
This is what I did
cedar star
So in the pin he mentions you need a specific gear set to make it work
But he doesn’t say what that set is
Or what the stat prio is
And when I stalk his armory he is outlaw
south hollow
is it normal for the frost set with doomblade to sim higher than with dashing scoundrel or did i fuck something up
frosty cedar
long dong crit
limber lion
And when I stalk his armory he is outlaw
kind talon
So in the pin he mentions you need a specific gear set to make it work
what r u talking about
which pin
odd python
M+ with dashing - WHAT talent build?
limber lion
Also says which stat you want.
cedar star
limber lion
M+ with dashing - WHAT talent build?
EP/Sub/Vig/CT still
cedar star
Ah, I’m just blind
cedar star
Good thing I basically have his exact gear
limber lion
I did one run as Outlaw.
that's why it's showing up as Outlaw
Let me log out and back in and then you can update.
regal cape
Damn you're washed, not all 100s?
limber lion
Yeh, unlucky.
kind talon
rank 4 frost set
cedar star
I’m just annoyed I have to make another r6 lego. I got obedience which is great since I play all 3 specs
cedar star
But I fucking hate choreghast
regal cape
I mean I have like all mythic dom pieces, this reset I'll have r 4 frost and UH set. I just don't have dagger yet
limber lion
hc sylv dagger
it's not even that good on assa.
A 252 helm would be a bigger upgrade
kind talon
it's not even that good on assa.
yeah but its insane on outlaw
regal cape
I just want the dagger for sub
wary pawn
that parses lmao
strange python
do u guys still run zoldyck for m+ ?
limber lion
Yes
halcyon zealot
i do, personally think it’s still the best in practice even tho sims say otherwise
south hollow
Where are your mythic logs? 🤔
limber lion
Where are your mythic logs? 🤔
Private.
south hollow
noob
kind talon
no u
kind talon
💀
limber lion
I can screenshot them for you if you'd like.
kind talon
limber lion
It follows a similar theme though, not much to see.
kind talon
LOL
pure moth
Lol
south hollow
casually getting 100s
gloomy fern
show them lil bish
limber lion
fleet anchor
Glad the SBS stuff got fixed although I do think it was somewhat overblown in terms of its impact
limber lion
fleet anchor
Never felt good but also really didn't make a huge difference
limber lion
Never felt good but also really didn't make a huge difference
Yeh
But the feel factor is pretty giga
south hollow
😩
south hollow
That was cringe
fleet anchor
I think it is worth looking at Necro for Dashing because last I looked (as mentioned in tc-research) I was having a really hard time finding Dashing worth for Necro
Doomblade sims significantly ahead for my personal gear even with R4 Frost
limber lion
Dashing sims far ahead for me on Venthyr
south hollow
Get more crit
limber lion
It's not even close.
fleet anchor
Amount of crit is irrelevant for the value of Dashing
gloomy fern
but what about ur guardian log cev 
fleet anchor
Dashing gives crit, and the number of procs are the same
south hollow
fleet anchor
So the Dashing contribution is effectively static
fleet anchor
The main reason Doomblade is better for Necro is SBS scales Doomblade which makes it innately better
fleet anchor
Compared to Venthyr
gloomy fern
wait no assa beat 10k yet
limber lion
ye
hollow talon
do people have enough embers to have rank4 of two sets ?
fleet anchor
Would be borderline probably
limber lion
do people have enough embers to have rank4 of two sets ?
Yes
Exactly 2 sets for r4
Not a single ember extra.
hollow talon
ah ic
gloomy fern
u got some spare if u killed more mythic bosses
limber lion
Most people don't have a second r4
hollow talon
i wanted to try rank 4 frost but i think im short a fewembers
steel ridge
Dashing gives crit, and the number of procs are the same
How?
gloomy fern
south hollow
best % so far?
warped temple
youre huge! 😮
steel ridge
Not sure I understand the question
Why is the energy proc rate the same regardless of crit stat?
fleet anchor
Not the energy proc really, but the crit rate itself which is what drives the damage. Crit will gain a bit more damage via the energy component, but not the main factor for Frost value
limber lion
best % so far?
Like 64% or something
south hollow
close
limber lion
Just need a few pulls in P3 to get it down and we're gucci.
fleet anchor
Dashing is less than 1% ahead of Obedience for the default BiS Venthyr profile though so
fleet anchor
Not like anyone needs to panic about not having Dashing at max ilevel at this stage
steel ridge
Amount of crit is irrelevant for the value of Dashing
But thats what you said, but more crit is more energy
kind talon
hof is probably closed by next week
fleet anchor
But thats what you said, but more crit is more energy
Context. With regard to overall Frost shard value
limber lion
I kinda wanna do something else than raid every night
steel ridge
Context. With regard to overall Frost shard value
Ah ok
kind talon
SLG was a killer and sire was tough
but this tier is just kinda
if u raid more u get wr
limber lion
Yeah, we didn't raid yesterday or today
fleet anchor
With BiS profile for Necro, Dashing barely pulls ahead at extremely BiS levels
arctic walrus
@limber lion i wanna start reclearing so bad
fleet anchor
But it's only like
limber lion
Oh wells
fleet anchor
0.5% better than Doomblade
arctic walrus
limber lion
<@!165215952479322112> i wanna start reclearing so bad
That'll be sick
Sylv this week and reclear on Wednesday/Tuesday 🤞
arctic walrus
i'll have a mythic dagger by then 
fleet anchor
That's a profile with like 44% crit or so
hollow talon
vampy boy master race
kind talon
With BiS profile for Necro, Dashing barely pulls ahead at extremely BiS levels
Doesn’t necro give doomblade a bit of a boost too though
limber lion
For sure 
arctic walrus
it's gonna drop on the kill i just know it
gloomy fern
I kinda wanna do something else than raid every night
u say that but gonna raidlead hc boosts 23:59
fleet anchor
Doesn’t necro give doomblade a bit of a boost too though
Yeah I mentioned that earlier, #assassination message
fleet anchor
So yeah Dashing will pull ahead sooner for Venthyr
arctic walrus
spike counts as a bleed for db?
fleet anchor
Yes
arctic walrus
yooo
hollow talon
@limber lion the dashing in the pins, which soulbind is it?
arctic walrus
in an indirect way sure
kind talon
Dashing is a legendary
limber lion
<@!165215952479322112> the dashing in the pins, which soulbind is it?
Nadja for all of em
hollow talon
cool ty
kind talon
in an indirect way sure
Venthyr gives haste and crit which makes dashing give more energy right
Compared to like necro
gloomy fern
so am i crafting dashing and maxing my frost shards? vel
fleet anchor
It's not actually the crit rate that is that different
The BiS Venthyr setup actually averages less crit than the Necro setup
It's the Haste and Vers that help it out
Venthyr profile only has like 40% average crit rate on non-poisons, Necro is at like 44%
limber lion
so am i crafting dashing and maxing my frost shards? vel
That's what I'm doing
gloomy fern
ok im abandoning sub
limber lion
:O
gloomy fern
yes, to many elitist jerks like @strange python
strange python
Finally
fleet anchor
Also Doomblade probably would always be ahead if residual DoTs could crit, but that's an unfortunate side-effect
Since the Doomblade DoT itself can't crit and thus doesn't generate any Frost damage
olive tendon
Is Dashing Scoundrel worth using on m+? I mean can it compete with Zoldyck? When I check bloodmallet DS on HecticAddCleave is much higher than Zoldyck but I think that bonus energy regen. from DS is not so useful on m+.
hollow talon
kind of a noob question but at what fight length is it not worth to hold flag for vendetta
anything over 6 min?
thorny pond
If you're running obedience you can sync every other
otherwise as long as you won't miss a cast is the rule
hollow talon
so i think like 6 minutes if my math is right?
like over 6 min i guess
since u can get 4 flags in 6 min
and only 3 vendettas
drifting cloud
well youd hold vendetta for flag not other way around
unless I guess you know kill timer exactly then its whatever
hollow talon
woeful meteor
Holding vendetta for flag? Pretty sure thats the other way around
drifting cloud
well on a 6min kill timer youd just ven+flag at 4:35~
or on like 3:30 kill timers ven+flag at 3min
or well 3:30-4:05 same principle
actually on exactly 6min you would do 2min flag+vend, 3:30 flag, 5:00 flag+ven
big brain
balmy condor
like over 6 min i guess
lets say 6:30
you can vend on cd 0,2,4,6
you can flag on cd 0,1:30,3,4:30,6
if you currently would be syncing twice. if you sync lets say 3 times, by holding the second flag to 2 min, you would delay the other flags by 30 seconds, which would make you miss a cast. So that doesn't work, so you should launch it on that fight time.
we can do the same thing for say, 7:25
flag 0,1:30,3,4:30,6```
here you can shift your cds a little to sync.
```vend 0,2,4,6
flag 0,2,4,5:30,7```
would be acceptable
```vend 0,2,4:30,6:30
flag 0,1:30,3,4:30,6:30```
would also be acceptable, and net you 3 syncs over the normal 2
As long as the amount of casts is still the same, you can shift them around to fit whatever you want technicallywhispyr 
drifting cloud
its just easier to miss a cast of a 90s cd on longer fights because yeah you can educated guess kill timers but +- 20s can easily make you lose flag cast
-20 would be gear better execution +20 would be random deaths obv
fervent rune
Do we cast CT while vendetta is up? Outside of shiv window
balmy condor
Holding vendetta for flag? Pretty sure thats the other way around
like ryler pointed out, holding vendetta is actually a necessity on some kill times like 6 minutes, where you would naturally get 3 vendetta, 0,2,4, and 4 flags, 0,1:30,3,4:30. There's crazy wiggle room on that fight time specifically because you're coming up on a giga sync at 6 minutes which you're killing right before, so that allows you to shift cds a ton.
flag 0,2,3:30,5```
in this case would actually be 3 syncs as well, but you could also do something like
```vend 0,3,5:30
flag 0,1:30,3,5:30```
Holding flag a full 2 and a half minutes in this case is actually just fine, because you're still on the same amount of castsyes
woeful meteor
True ok thx
fervent rune
Ty
balmy condor
this whole cooldown planning in general is kinda important and just something that you should be naturally doing during progression anyways, sylvanas p2 is a pretty good example where you have your cooldowns for the first burn phase (the pull, or 0 seconds in this case), and you want it up for p3, but you want to use cds in between on the big adds
balmy condor
I did some log analysis for cooldown timings for uh unnamed person raiding at world 20 level
pretty fun tbh
but it can be a bit mind melting
especially if you're gonna throw obedience into the mix
like that shit
hurts
drifting cloud
for sub I assume or what?*
balmy condor
for sin
drifting cloud
why did person raid obedience as sin
hollow talon
sub doesnt seem as important, the cd's line up a little easier
cause everything is pretty close to a symbols cd
drifting cloud
I guess they crafted r6 for sub then played sin on sylvn or something
hollow talon
I guess they crafted r6 for sub then played sin on sylvn or something
this is what i've been doing lol
balmy condor
why did person raid obedience as sin
cause it pumps
hollow talon
bout to make dashing though
balmy condor
EP vig CT for sylv
gloomy fern
Sounds like bad jpc build
balmy condor
they switched to pb later
but the add damage was pretty good
either way
point is
hollow talon
Sounds like bad jpc build
jp cone trick would never
hollow talon
yeah i have a bad habit of sending stuff on CD but will try to plan ahead a bit more
hollow talon
esp on kills where i know the kill times
gloomy fern
With my fingers, on the keyboard
drifting cloud
only 1? what a pleb
fleet summit
anyone else experiencing mutilate opener taking you out of stealth and not giving combo points?
only started happening this week for me
steel gyro
I've had it a couple times. Does the animation/takes me out of stealth but no damage/combo points.
Have only noticed it in raid, so maybe instance lag or something?
heady drum
You boys play assa in dungeon? If so what anima powers / talents do you like to play with?
real kettle
only happens to me in sylv in big grps @fleet summit @steel gyro
balmy condor
You boys play assa in dungeon? If so what anima powers / talents do you like to ...
playing sub, but you would take the standard m+ talents in every key, and then go like necrotic/axe for tyrannical, or brand/plumage for fort weeks
the anima powers are giga boring tbh
everyone just takes the same shit
trail anvil
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
winged basin
anyone else experiencing mutilate opener taking you out of stealth and not givin...
This happens to me WAY more often then I wish it did. I notice it happens EVERYTIME after Painsmith intermission.
fleet summit
what trinkets are you using
winged basin
Phial + Fusion Amp personally
fleet summit
himm i have fusion + ticking sack
winged basin
But mut don’t wanna give cp after painsmith intermission. I just assumed he had hidden I-frames after intermission
fleet summit
usually happens to me on the pull
shell ivy
Pain smith gets immune for 1 sec when he returns i think, at least I learned that the hard way
fleet summit
i mean i guess the good thing is it doesnt seem to take energy but it does pop my gcd
shell ivy
Now I always wait a sec before doing anything
vivid prism
What legendary would y'all recommend to make as your first for raids and some m+
woeful meteor
If you are venthyr obedience
timid talon
ehhhhhhh
unless you're geared, its best to just do doom + zold
a few extra torghast runs wont kill you
if you really dont wanna farm it then obedience is fine
but its still behind doom on st for most of us
lyric light
Doom blade and obedience are great starters as you can run both in raiding and M + - I would not recommend zold until 15+ as your targets will die too fast.
proven brook
anyone else experiencing mutilate opener taking you out of stealth and not givin...
Are you standing in front of the boss? Sounds like you are getting parried
torn atlas
anyone else experiencing mutilate opener taking you out of stealth and not givin...
Are you maybe getting parried by the boss? I'm finding it happens far more often in SoD than it did in CN.
indigo totem
Yeah I've been parried like that, annoying af, positioning isn't always ideal
abstract venture
grizzled orbit
My opener has been ruined completely on 2 occasions because of parry. Imagine your first 2 opening mutilates being parried back to back.
idle star
I always Sstep any boss that can parry me.
raven hawk
imagine not stepping the boss
idle star
If you dont use sprint + sstep before a boss pull you aint good
grizzled orbit
But not sylv, right? Wouldn’t be up for first chains. Neither ss?
idle star
I need frost shoulds so bad so i can seap to assa
grizzled orbit
But you’re sub 4 lyfe?
idle star
Apparently im not :)
modern heart
ye man im torn between all specs now
frost sin is fun, frostlaw is top on paper and sub is my baby
sick cairn
if BS, DS are simming the highest should we use them? or keep vigor and EP for SoD
nvm i saw the pin
idle star
After watching infexious new dashing frost guide, im sold
warm bluff
Are people waiting to see for DS leggo or stick to DOomblade?
cobalt pelican
you don't really need to wait and see, just sim your character for both now and where you potentially might be in a couple weeks and send it
agile geode
im simming 9.9 k as necro sin with 262 doomblade and 10k as venthyr sim with dashing
each with frost set ofc
im not gonna swap venthyr
i hope im not doing wrong choice
sick cairn
how do u sim urself as venthyr?
agile geode
necro too much fun
sick cairn
im necro as well and i wanna do that
agile geode
i'll let u see
sick cairn
u running heirmir right?
agile geode
maybe im wrong and with gear scaling venthyr will become huge
maybe or maybe not
obtuse robin
yea necro is like 170 dps less for me
zinc frost
I sim 200 less dps as necro, but I’m swapping back cause it’s 💯 more fun than venthyr in m +
agile geode
necro is funnier a lot than venthyr
mnemonic deals damage as %
u havnt to see recount
i guess
obtuse robin
wat
agile geode
it goes on combo with necro
sbs
and maim mangle
is better on necro cuz of more bleeds
i was wrong
its a bug
my good
best covenant all bugged
check the comments
indigo mulch
Okay, so correct me if i'm wrong here. Dashing gives you x amount of energy per crit of your poison correct? Does that mean it gives you 2 energy if you have 2 poisons up?
idle star
We only have 1 weapon posion so.... doesnt include trinket poisons
obtuse robin
sbs is poison no?
indigo mulch
No.
obtuse robin
oh
velvet nacelle
doesn't count as "poison"
dawn ivy
its a bleed
velvet nacelle
even if the tooltip might say it
dawn ivy
hence why it amps doomblade
obtuse robin
so
indigo mulch
I thought Deadly gave you 1 energy per crit per target. So if you have 4 targets all with deadly you would get 4 energy if all 4 poisons critted at the sametime.
obtuse robin
isnt deadly psion and the instant hit of deadly poison not count as 2 different?
indigo mulch
Ohh so its the proc that gives you the energy regen? Not the actual debuff?
Or dot rather
dawn ivy
that wasnt very clear so i deleted it
sick cairn
with rank 4 frost, scoundrel is better for me by like 40 dps
dawn ivy
it is both, in general.
obtuse robin
ok its 2
dawn ivy
both the initial hit and the dot can crit and give one energy
velvet nacelle
i need to make a new legendary next week, either dashing or doomblade on back, probably gonna do dashing just to have something new
indigo mulch
So you get the energy both from the dot and the proc of deadly?
velvet nacelle
my doomblade was on shoulders this whole time because me = lazy
indigo mulch
Dashing in theory sounds really good. ANything that speeds up the rotation is good in my eyes atleast.
dawn ivy
in reality, the energy gains are not that big tbh
indigo mulch
I don't have enough cinders to craft a 262 dashing yet though ;c
velvet nacelle
i have the cinders, i waited to make an r6 since i figured there'd be balance churn
i'm actually short on soul ash heh
obtuse robin
u can tell form the sims that the enrgy regen is no that big its alway like 30-50 dps higher then doomblade for everybody
velvet nacelle
only have 2800 soul ash so next week i'm gonna have to do like 2 repeat torghasts
2060 for doing 2 12s right? so yeah i'll be 300ish short if i don't do 2 extra
indigo mulch
Even if its not that much its still speeds you up a bit
indigo mulch
Depends on the fight though
hollow river
Ep deeper or riot
half quarry
velvet nacelle
yeah that's probably what i'll do next week
we're done raiding for the week in 2 hours and just got my last frost shard just now so not worth it to leave to do that now heh
mental trout
does any one use master assassin in mythic +
spice spire
I did this week to blast bosses as most of my guild is still a bit underleveled.
It’s not as good as Subt for sure lol
hollow condor
Hey guys, is it worth Swapping my obedience by Doomblade ?
idle star
I feel obidience is better for sub
cloud plinth
i have the same question is obedience or doomblade better for sin right now
timid talon
playstyle? doing the rotation normally?
agile geode
No
The playstile
I dont like flagellation
All dps in 1 spell
Compared to SBS is boring
My opinion
idle star
stupid unholy shards being rank 4.. can only afford to rank frost upto rank 2
blzizard sucks
blizzard
pale plank
do u guys CT on mythics? or stick do PB?
full tendon
CT all the way
bleak sky
do u guys CT on mythics? or stick do PB?
ep, subterfuge, vigor, ct
mental trout
speaking of CT, when are we suppose to be refreshing it? setting up a glow effect on WA now
broken quest
idle star
Worth using rabk 2 frost set iver rank 4 unholy+ sub?
true abyss
Okay I'm confused and need help please