assassination

[hollow river]

You can sim for something like this

[timid coral]

there's a pin in sub channel that explains how you can sim this

[long hawk]

Yh figured it out. I got 3% agi from the favour and I’m offline sitting on it till raid thanks.

[hexed ravine]

guys can i play sin with kyrian or i should def go venth?

[alpine latch]

Are you pushing for Hall of Fame or +30s?

If not, do whatever the hell you want man

[timid talon]

go venth, kyrian feels bad to play

[dark token]

You can play sin with what you want but if you like doing damage venthyr or necro is the play

If you wanna RP with animals kyrian and night fae are top tier choices tho

[pale dew]

Just because someone isn't top 1% doesn't mean they wanna play a non optimized build and have it feel like shit.

Like do you really think only the top players enjoy or want to min max? Come on..

[hexed ravine]

i kinda want both

raiding and m+

idk how is sin in m+

[alpine latch]

All of the covenants feel fine, for all specs. Just because something isn't hyper-optimized doesn't mean it's not fun to play.

Everyone forgets that this is a game that's meant to be enjoyed

If you find something fun, run it.

If you're in a guild that prefers you to be hyper-optimized, move on and find a new guild

There's thousands of them out there ...

[hollow river]

Ummm

To some people optimizing is the fun

[alpine latch]

Cool, then do it

I'm responding to someone asking if Kyrian is acceptable to play as

And the answer is Yes

[hollow river]

Yeah I know that

Depends on what their goal is

[alpine latch]

I never said it didn't

But if you're not pushing +30s or Hall of Fame, the need to min-max isn't there.

You may enjoy it, but you don't have to if you don't

There are people who've played Survival for the last 5 raid tiers that have CE

[hollow river]

Feel like you should lower that to +25s at the highest lol

[alpine latch]

Probably

[dark token]

This argument is pretty overdone, the vast majority of people want to play what is best and minmax their char even if they aren't going for wf

[alpine latch]

I use 30s to prove a point, lol

[hollow river]

And those people who played survival

Probably optimized like animals

[dark token]

Now they probably put less effort into it than if you are going for wf but they still wanna try

A lot of people look up talents to use instead of picking random ass ones that are fun for example

Covenants are similar

The only thing you can do is say 'kyrian is 5% worse for dps" and let people make their own decision on if they like aesthetics or w/e enough for 5% dmg

Instead of dictating what they should or shouldnt play

[hollow river]

Yep

[red atlas]

obedience > doomblade ?

[hollow river]

Sim yourself

Or if you need 1 leggo for both raid and m+, obedience is decent for both

[obtuse robin]

cant wait for reset and dashing to be bis

[alpine latch]

lol

[obtuse robin]

[alpine latch]

Right?

[red atlas]

im simming more with obedience 😮

[alpine latch]

Then make it

It's good for both ST and m+, so if you want to boost one thing to r6 immediately, it's the best choice.

It's a great all-around legendary that also works well (albeit with different secondaries) with Sub

[opal rivet]

Hello! Can you please help me, what is the most convenient/easy legendary to use in mythic plus dungeons for average players? I would be very happy if it also does good damage and maybe even removes a button but it is okay if it does not do those things. Thank you for your time.

[hollow river]

None of them remove a button

[hollow river]

What covenant are you?

[opal rivet]

Necrolord but I can switch to any

[hollow river]

U only play m+?

Necro is good for m+

[opal rivet]

I am currently using that cute PvP one that makes stuns 10% shorter if that adds any information

[opal rivet]

Yes, 👍

[hollow river]

Probably want Zoldycks of necrolord

For m+

[opal rivet]

Thank you, I am going to look at this one right now!

[hollow river]

You’re welcome

[hollow river]

Pins and FAQ have good info and guides.

[heavy coral]

!mut

[prisma monolith]

Ambush is currently only used from blindside/sepsis proc, not from stealth.
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3).
Some other factors to consider are increased poison applications, blindside, and doomblade. This is true for all talent combinations and legendaries.

[wary pawn]

think im going crazy, my vendetta is casting itself alone after flag? is it even possible?

[vast forum]

Macro?

[thin imp]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7qQV6kbfJdEr213LVKSR9G

a bit disapointed about the sylvanas' dagger )=

[hollow river]

yep

double 252 should still be bis tho

[thin imp]

but the normal one is easily replaced by a 242

[hollow river]

oh wow thats a 226 dagger compared to Normal sylvanas dagger

[thin imp]

yea..

[hollow river]

i thought Normal dagger was better than 252 OH

whats going on here

[thin imp]

That was my thought as well

[hollow river]

fuuuuuuuuu

[thin imp]

I mean 19 dps difference, probably a 236 OH will give me more

[hollow river]

yeah looking like it will

so i'm basically wasting my time in normal

[thin imp]

probably it makes a better difference for sub

[hollow river]

other than still needing chest and shoulders for dom slots

maybe

[jagged osprey]

finally got all my unholy shards

[wild beacon]

yeah my 3rd one dropped last night

[hollow river]

same

[sharp zodiac]

Imagine having a helmet to put them into

[hoary holly]

is outlaw significantly better than assass for M+? if so, should i pick necro if i want to raid and M+?

[lavish lichen]

what kind of keys are you trying to do?

[hoary holly]

like what level? as high as possible but realistically up to like 17-20 range

[alpine latch]

Sin is perfectly fine for that

[urban gale]

why are assass logs off the chart on eye

[alpine latch]

Our 2T cleave is top notch

[brisk orchid]

and we have no downtime when he does the beam

As you can just shadowstep through it

[hoary holly]

for pvp most rogues go sub right? and venthyr in that case?

[urban gale]

where does the shadowstep land, right in front?

[brisk orchid]

Front left corner

[urban gale]

interesting

[brisk orchid]

So you just wait for it to go past that point and shadowstep

0 downtime

[winter vapor]

welp, thats super useful info, ty!

[alpine latch]

Do it once at the beginning of the fight, like on pull. It ALWAYS takes you to that spot.

If you don't, you'll probably die the first time. Once you know, you ignore beam altogether

[brisk orchid]

During beam phase just make sure dots are up on the add, funnel energy onto boss - by the time beam is finished and add has returned it’ll be time to reapply dots to the add again

If you want a replay to see, my last two parses would have done this strategy 100%. On the phone though so it’s a pain to get exact link for replay

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/draenor/pretense#difficulty=4

[plain spruce]

how does Dauntless duelist work when a boss dies, like in the Nine?

[drifting cloud]

you will reapply on next target

[plain spruce]

does Fan replace Mut at 3 targets or 4?

[tulip nacelle]

3 for poisons 4 to generate

[exotic pulsar]

Is there a time threshold for how long to hold on to vendetta / flag while the other one is on cooldown? The guide says every other one but sometimes that is a 30 second difference. Seems excessive.

[tulip nacelle]

use both on cd

only sync if you won't lose a cast

[exotic pulsar]

That's something hard to tell at this point in the tier since players are getting such extreme dps increases daily.

So basically only sync the very last cast of a fight

[tulip nacelle]

yea

[exotic pulsar]

well first and last of course.

[plain spruce]

Sims all say obedience is slightly better then doomblade but doomblade sims higher for me, does it only get better with highest possible gear?

[short token]

are we mind numbing for soulredner adds?

[willow prairie]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[cobalt pelican]

you're mind numbing in every raid fight ever regardless

[edgy ginkgo]

you think dashing scoundrel is a safe pick for a rank 6 legy with frost set? or do you think it will be bad if the set is getting nerfed?

[cobalt pelican]

only as a second legendary

[plain spruce]

from what i have read it seems frost is getting nerfed less then unholy

[cobalt pelican]

crafting it first is dumb, crafting it second is dumb if you multispec

[edgy ginkgo]

so i should choose between doomblade and obedience instead, right?

[cobalt pelican]

yes

dashing builds are cool and all but they're very much an 'in a while, maybe, if things line up'

not that the legendary is bad rn but

[edgy ginkgo]

... the others are better atm 😛

or more consistent

[cedar star]

Playing Obedience + having fusion amplifier is so weird

Literally every cd is Desynced lol

Almost makes me want to run Doomblade because it makes syncing cd’s easier

[cobalt pelican]

it's not really that complicated

just mash your trinket on cd it's not like.. a fancy button

[storm quest]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[noble gyro]

As Venthry what rank 6 legendary should i craft first Doom or obedience?

[limber lion]

You need to make that decision yourself.

Sim it.

If you want to play Sub as well, probs Obedience.

[cosmic sandal]

hey lads, anyone know a good guide for dom sockets? I have a pair of 249 gloves with crit haste, and a pair of 239 gloves from the raid with dom socket, crit/vers. the crit haste gloves sim higher than the raid gloves. but im not sure if shard of dyz is better? does that make sense

or should i not worry about dom sockets unless i get the set bonus

[kind talon]

u can sim it

with raidbots

[noble gyro]

Thanks

[mortal pike]

So how do the unholy set bonus stacks work?

[ancient peak]

is it worth trying to sync fusion amplifier with the haste from flagellation?

[obsidian socket]

i think its better to sync it with flag in general?

[viscid spear]

Got my 3rd UH shard

[obsidian socket]

both are 1:30 CD

[viscid spear]

[strange python]

It's always better to sync beneficial stuff up to the point where you lose a cast

This is just a general rule of dps

[manic harness]

Cooldowns are multiplicative

[obtuse robin]

idk from seeing alot of these top parses including cev they do not hold flag for the 2nd vendetta

[manic harness]

They become much more powerful together than cast alone

[strange python]

Note the stipulation

[ancient peak]

i mean a lot of trinkets have no interaction with our kits

[obtuse robin]

what stip

general?

[strange python]

Till the point you will lose a cast

[obsidian socket]

what do u mean lose a cast

[strange python]

If you think you're going to lose a cast. Fucking send it

[manic harness]

Don't allow yourself to let the boss die without using the CD

[obsidian socket]

oh so a 5 min fight youre getting 2 vendettas, 3 flags, 3 fusions

[obtuse robin]

wait but that doesnt matter if ur not gonna get a 3rd round of any thing cuz boss is dead

[strange python]

"my trinket is ready. But flag is still a while off... But if I use the trinket NOW I'll get to use it again before the end of the fight. Kk. Send it"

[obtuse robin]

they still dont hold flag

[obsidian socket]

if you wait 20 seconds to start fusion, then youll lose the third fusion i trhink?

[strange python]

Big

Fat

Depends

This is on the fly stuff

Generally speaking even the best of the best won't KNOW they got it right till afterwards

[obsidian socket]

usually the first flag is in vendetta window anyways so using fusion with vendetta window is better

[obtuse robin]

buy lose a cast you mean the boss is dead right

[strange python]

Kinda? I guess...

I mean think of it this way. The worst thing that can happen is the boss dies just as all your cds refresh

The best thing that could happen is you chained every cd you could and the boss dies at the end of a cd combo

[obtuse robin]

ok so even on long fights like kt and sylv they still not holding flag for 2nd ven they just use it on cd

im just saying its what i noticed just now past 30 min looking at logs

[strange python]

Just don't LOSE a cast of something big because you sat on it for too long

This is always bad

This shit is big in keys.

All these guys who never touch cds until a boss. Etc etc

SUUUUUUPER common

Then they struggle to finish 15s and can't work out why

I guess the one thing to tack onto that concept though is making sure the profile of your output matches the requirements of a fight.

Eg. If phase 1 is 30 seconds long and phase 2 is MEGA important to push fast. Yeah you sit on that cd

This is fight dependent though.

[limber lion]

With so many bosses having some sort of intermission, you have to always be mindful of your cooldown usage. Even more so this tier than in CN.

You generally want to cast everything on cooldown, but it doesn't really work on every single boss.

[halcyon zealot]

has anyone taken the time to figure out the % difference between high rolling Agi with party favors vs getting say vers, for example? (im sure its a very minimal difference, just curious)

also, i was trying to see what the Sim defaulted too, and i see this on a quick sim

[strange python]

It's basically sweet fuck all

[halcyon zealot]

does that mean it runs each buff for 1/4 of the sim and takes an average, or am i dumb

[strange python]

But really you can't control the buff that much

[halcyon zealot]

oh i know you cant, i was just curious is all, not worth trying to Game it

[strange python]

So just know which one is best for YOU and if you get that one. Don't reroll it

[halcyon zealot]

well, i would assume at this point, main stat is best for everyone

[strange python]

It will change a bit depending on gear and such of course

[drifting cloud]

you have a pin in sub channel

to sim them all

[strange python]

Maybe. I think the haste one comes out best for me

[obtuse robin]

look at the sub pin

it has the inputs to put in raidbotds

[halcyon zealot]

ya i am now, didnt know that existed xD

[obtuse robin]

for partyfavors

[strange python]

They're dumb close though.

[obtuse robin]

for me haste is 30 dps ahead the rest

the worse one is agi beleive it or not

[strange python]

Same for me

[obtuse robin]

gotta love flat values

[halcyon zealot]

damn really? thats interesting to me tbh

[obtuse robin]

yea cuz 3 % agi is 3% of agi u already have while the others is just straight up 3 % on top

[halcyon zealot]

yaaa haste best and agi worst for me aswell, ive rolled vers 4 times today tho so im owning

[odd hazel]

just got 3 unholy shards

im stuck blue now cause i accidentally hit the reaction for it

rip me

[arctic hare]

Welp

looks like they aren't doing nerfs at all

for shards anyways

https://www.wowhead.com/news/blizzard-not-proceeding-with-shards-of-domination-set-bonus-nerfs-323610

[young nacelle]

[heavy forge]

:(

I kinda wanted it, I liked the scoundrel build

[alpine latch]

Woot! Got my Unholy and Frost sets completed tonight.

[wild beacon]

Yeah it did look fun/interesting

[young nacelle]

yeah i finally got my unholy set as all this talk of nerfs was going out. so im glad they arent fucking with it at all

[alpine latch]

I just leveled frost anyway... Fuck it, baylife.

[cursive silo]

That woud still be better with high gear right?

[heavy forge]

tbf it's 75dps behind doomglade with my current gear

I guess with a bit more gear it'll be above

I'm only 237 atm

[heavy forge]

hope so

[obtuse robin]

frost is still going to be ahead

with high crit

[cobalt pelican]

(if it ever actually works properly)

(and you don't have to hit more than 1 thing)

[obtuse robin]

so whyspers initial sim stil in play

frost 300 dps ahead

of unholy

if not bugged

[proper mango]

Side Question, do you ever use your Flag outside of Vendetta? (bcs of the cooldown differnce)

[opaque tree]

You guys know what are the top 3 dps Domination gems are right now?

I know they are going to hotfix this coming week

[proper mango]

Frostfire just posted a link above about Blizz not changing the shards

[cursive silo]

The top 3 gems are the only 3 dps ones lol

[proper mango]

lul true

[opaque tree]

oh, lol

I thought there were 4?

[proper mango]

nah every kind has 1 dps shard

[opaque tree]

So Bek, Zed, and Cor

only ones?

[cursive silo]

Probably idk the names

[proper mango]

but the blood one ist the worst imo

[opaque tree]

yeee that's them

blood is worst??

[cursive silo]

Theres 1 unholy that gives some passive damage too

[opaque tree]

It looks like the best, lol

[cursive silo]

But its kinda sucky

[opaque tree]

Is Unholy the best?

[proper mango]

Depends on what you do

[cursive silo]

No best is unholy easily

[proper mango]

For raiding its the worst

[cursive silo]

Frost is good on fights you can abuse it

Blood is good everywhere but sylv

[spare flame]

There a trick to shadowstepping nerhzul knock mythic?

[cursive silo]

Step boss and/or statue not players

[spare flame]

ty

[proper mango]

It says you need to have 50% or more total health then the target you attack, how does this work on ayhting that has more hp than you for 99% of the raid bosses

[cursive silo]

50% more health% lol

Not total health

[proper mango]

"Your damage is increased by 1.5% when you have 50% or more health than your target."

than your target

[cursive silo]

Yes

[proper mango]

what does it compare then

[heavy forge]

that mean once the boss is at 50%

[cursive silo]

So when youre at 100% hp

[heavy forge]

you have 50%hp more

[cursive silo]

It procs on anything at 50 or below

[proper mango]

Ahh okay i read it wrong then i guess

[heavy forge]

oh theotar is ahead of nadia even with full tree

wouldn't have thought so

[opaque tree]

Unholy looks like it would do the most damage

but.. I guess it doesn't proc much?

[cursive silo]

It probably is

[opaque tree]

it's over 10secs but it's a nice bit of damage

[cursive silo]

Maybe even with blood

[proper mango]

it should be

[cursive silo]

Frost sucks in sims but you can abuse it in a lot of fights

[opaque tree]

I wonder if it can proc multiple at a time

like on KT Fan of Knives

[proper mango]

abuse in what way?

[cursive silo]

Just procing it

On random adds or w/e

[lavish lichen]

Frost you mean?

[sick cairn]

Anyone saw the wowhead post that shards are not gonna be needed at all?

[lavish lichen]

Needed?

[sick cairn]

Nerfed

[lavish lichen]

Or nerfed

[sick cairn]

Autocorrect

[lavish lichen]

Yes

[sick cairn]

Sry

[lavish lichen]

People are discussing it like 5 lines above yiur message haha

[sick cairn]

Came here in a panic

Hahaha

[slow marsh]

yeah good news after all lol. didn't think they'd do it tbh

[sick cairn]

Is the dashing frost shard still BIS even though we’re necro?

Or do we stick to doom blade

[delicate canyon]

What legendary is everyone rocking?

[simple stratus]

still no bonespike fix

big sad

[acoustic breach]

does 2x sylv daggers stack?

[sick cairn]

Why does the bug feel like 9.0.2 bonesspike but even worse

[mental girder]

As soon as news went out about shards I crafted my 262 obedience cloak haha

[grizzled orbit]

How do you guys open on the nine?

[cobalt pelican]

from stealth usually

[agile geode]

Guys

Can someone explain me the last soulbind of heirmir?

I dont understan that 3%

[steady glen]

with the nerfs reverted is UH or Frost BIS?

[odd hazel]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7DtvcsRn4dpZQLuPzgd7zn

whelp

these unholy shards are nuts

not even max rank shards and its a almost 700 increase

[half quarry]

guys on bloodmallet aparently frost set is better on higher levels XD

[cobalt pelican]

haha wow really

that's epic!!

[half quarry]

for sngt and for aoe are crazy better so yeah im gonna start going for that

[timid talon]

@limber lion there is a blue post about not nerfing set bonuses now, if you wanna edit the pin

[cobalt pelican]

nobody still knows what shards will look like next week so it's not really any different

[timid talon]

They literally said they're not changing them

https://www.wowhead.com/news/blizzard-not-proceeding-with-shards-of-domination-set-bonus-nerfs-323610

[cobalt pelican]

besides the part where they said they might change them

[wild beacon]

almost identical to me, that 3rd unholy shard boosted a lot

[cobalt pelican]

did you skim over that part

[timid talon]

"but we will not reduce the power of Shards now that many players have earned and upgraded them."

reading hard

[cobalt pelican]

oh ok

i kinda forgot how dumb average spec chan goers are

continue

[cursive silo]

They are buffing/fixing instead of nerfing

Is all the post says

Lol

[odd hazel]

OOOOF

[sick cairn]

do we still go dashing frost for BiS if we are necro?

[odd hazel]

if it sims better for oyu sure

[sick cairn]

dont really know how to sim that

haha

[bleak sky]

check the "replace existing gems/enchants" on raidbots
select max tier frost/blood/unholy gems
add legendary to your gearset
run sim
wait a lot

[sick cairn]

ah...

aiight thanks

[strange python]

The replacement function does some funky shit with my Dom sockets

[lavish lichen]

They said they are not NERFING them. It literally says they COULD change them lol meaning the others could get buffed

[twilit imp]

Yo, does it matter if I have my edge of night in the MH or OH, it's a % effect so I assume it doesn't?

[cursive silo]

Just equip your highest ilvl dagger in main hand

[ebon notch]

so vendetta doesnt affect the shadowgrasp totem or trinkets in general correct?

[mental trout]

Hey, is it bad to get PIs if some one intends to apply for a mythic raiding guild. My buddy is saying that mythic raiding guilds look for "pure dps". that they dont want to see parses of people who always get PI

does that have any truth to it? like are people who are getting pi suppose to ask to not get PI lol?

[wintry mica]

no thats dumb

but if you get like 4 PIs and a fight and still dont get high parses that could hurt your chances

[honest pendant]

Hey I'm trying to find some good daggers for ass rogue that are above level 200

My current ones that I'm using are the ones you redeem for honor in oribos

[wintry mica]

get lucky in korthia or just run dungeons

korthia armaments can get you 2 220s

[steep obsidian]

the logs will show you got PI any decent guild will look at more then just your raw dps parse

[narrow ravine]

I purchased korthia armaments on all my alts with stygia and mailed them to my alt, had like 45 to open

Might get lucky

[wintry mica]

im still using double korthia daggers

at least they have good stats

[honest pendant]

O

I can't run mythics because no-one wants me in their group

:(

[narrow ravine]

Run m+ until you get a dagger and upgrade it with Valor

[manic pebble]

Same

[wintry mica]

run your own keys until you can build your score up

[honest pendant]

I have never done one

[honest pendant]

Wheredo I get keys tho

[wintry mica]

by running a dungeon

[honest pendant]

Sorry I'm relatively new

[honest pendant]

Any specific? Or just any

[narrow ravine]

Do a mythic 0, you get a 2 key

[wintry mica]

if you are new, focusing on the campaign and korthia is the easiest way to catchup with gera

[narrow ravine]

Then start your own group

[honest pendant]

I'm level 60 rn and doing these covenant quests

Annoying as fuck

My item level is like 186 or something like that

[manic pebble]

Necro only, venth only, need kyrian

I hate these

[honest pendant]

I like the stewards

Tiny owls

[manic pebble]

Why can’t covenants be only cosmetic

😠

[honest pendant]

idk

@wintry mica heroics or normal

For keys*

[manic pebble]

Mythic

[honest pendant]

What

I can't do mythics without a group though

[manic pebble]

You have to play mythic 0 to get a key

[sudden canyon]

can i get a No Chaos Bane role call

rng shards ontop of rng gear

for 10% gains

wtf

[honest pendant]

How though

No-one wants me in a group

[mental trout]

finally got my last unholy shard today, last boss we kill on heroic! was 9/9 but some how one of my frost shards just vanished lol. didnt even have it in a piece of gear either... gonna have to do item recovery or some shit =makes no sense.

[thin trout]

yey no nerfs

[wintry mica]

you cant item recover dom shards fyi

you probably overwrote it instead of removing it with the stygia item

[mental trout]

thats stupid... =/ It was just in a bag, i didnt even have it in a piece of gear to even over write it.

its was tel though which i wont be using so its what ever

im 8/9 and will just get it next week

on the bright side last week i was so hype to finally get into the 8k sim range...

now after the unholy shard im chilling

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/sj652J2fs7UCaoRmQvgEgm

didnt get to raid with it yet though =/ Super hype to slap some bosses with chaos bane

[torn atlas]

Shit I was happy to hit 7.7k when all 3 unholy dropped for me last night.

[mental trout]

still need to upgrade one more shard also, only need 15 embers and ill have rank 4 Bane.

ah maybe i did overwrite a frost

forgot i did have it in a piece =/ testing a sim like an idiot lol

Had some pretty good parses with out Chaos bane to, way to hype to see what the parses are like next Raid!

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/tichondrius/crimpdini

[narrow ravine]

I still have no helm drop so I am thinking about upgrading my frost set now

[mental trout]

yea my frost set was only like 350dps less then my unholy

you get embers fast enought i unno your call

what i dont know is if you get embers from all the bosses in Heroic, when you go to normal can you get any more or is it once per boss?

[wild beacon]

i've heard no, you just get 1 chance per boss per week (regardless of extra kills on other difficulties) but would be happy to be proven wrong

[wintry mica]

If you kill it in heroic you won’t get embers for any lower difficulty

As far as I’m aware lower difficulties reward less and if you do normal and then heroic you end up with the same as if you just cleared heroic

[topaz echo]

my guildmate cried hard enough to the point he woke up with a shard back in his backpack

so writing a ticket does work if you threaten to cancel your sub and point out an obviously flawed design

[steep obsidian]

the tool to unsocket a shard should have just been a quest reward rather then in a vendor that you can easily miss

also the default ui shouldnt let you screw up so immensely by destroying a shard by overwriting it

[fallen arch]

Then why does crying about sbs not help

Who do I have to screw to get that one fixed

[thorny pond]

Uh, not allowed anymore

[strange python]

Holy fuck is it tilting to raid with a monk tank who rolls to reposition

[steep obsidian]

lol

welcome to all of my sire progression with a blinking boss

I gave up bitching about it

[leaden bloom]

what are thoughts on dashing/frost gems build?

[reef axle]

Nerfs not going through so I think we staying unholy

[azure flare]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/blizzard-not-proceeding-with-shards-of-domination-set-bonus-nerfs-323610

yeee booiiiii

[arctic walrus]

It’s A very specific play style that you realistically only play on 1/10 bosses

[azure flare]

what boss would be the play for it?

[arctic walrus]

Guardian

You need deeper/bs which so many fights just favor vigor ep

[azure flare]

I see, interesting 👀

[strange python]

So tired of asking them to just walk

[steep obsidian]

I am tempted to play sub on remnant which i probably should be anyway just for the extra step

[last mountain]

Hey quick question what is the interaction with envenom and flayedwing toxin

[fallen arch]

None

[strange python]

I am now without dagger. Feels nice, but the non dagger damage is sad looking at logs.

Also when we hold dps it hurts my soul

[fallen arch]

Holding dps always does

[fallen arch]

No interactions for sin with trinkets

[slow marsh]

dashing allows you to play without ep / vig just fyi. it's by no means a niche fight build. it's a niche gearing build

[strange python]

We shouldn't be holding DPS for 30 seconds for final shatter

But we're also 50 pulls in and still wiping to bad dispels

[summer onyx]

is there any recommendation list for anima powers for m+?

[slow marsh]

necro dagger, axes, stone ward, whatever

[sterile chasm]

How much You sim?

[slow marsh]

if other dps take volcanic then maybe take it too to perma cc packs

[topaz echo]

how much do axes do for you? i've only had bad experiences with them before

it was smth around 2-3%~ which is probably less than a flat stat increase

[idle star]

how much of a dps difference is theotar this week with max soulbinds compared to Nadja?

[hollow river]

roughly ~75 dps

would have to sim yourself to know for sure

could be diff

but i think the sim takes the average out of all the different buffs into 1 dps increase

[slow marsh]

decent amount. not quite sure exactly how much

i mean its not great but its something

[modest barn]

in the #assassination-faq, what are the 0's for the talents

[olive night]

personal preference, you can pick whatever you want.

[upbeat needle]

if I full clear heroic and get shards I can get shards to drop on normal and mythic, yeah?

[gloomy fern]

no

only one chance per boss no matter what difficulty

[fathom flax]

Thank god the nerf isn’t happening

My rank 4 unholy set isn’t wasted lol

[idle star]

you got rank 4?

you clearing mythic or something

[void needle]

So with the shard nerf not happening are we safe to craft our doomblades?

[idle star]

your obidience you mean?

[slow marsh]

you mean your dashing? xD

[native belfry]

You’re safe to craft whatever, you’re getting a new 262 leg in 2 cds

[slow marsh]

yeah all 3 builds are really close for the most part, until you start getting really good gear then dashing frost pulls ahead by a decent amount.

Given they still follow through with fixing some of the proc issues like they were going to

[native belfry]

Well they said they’re going to implement some changes so maybe

[idle star]

wtf where the heck is Theotar?

[native belfry]

On the right of the soulbind device?

[idle star]

ok so i got the agi 3% pot.

[north basin]

again blizzard doing amazing job with rollercoaster nerfs and reverse nerfs. prolly should hire more talented folks

and still no necro bug fix.

[potent dagger]

You kniw what is happening in blizzard right now no ?

Even gm don't answer to request currently

[vestal wren]

i think people know

[potent dagger]

@vestal wren judging by the sentence of @north basin i Wonder lol

[wild beacon]

I have rank 4 unholies and we haven't even cleared heroic fully yet

[vestal wren]

its fair to complain, in the end its still a product/service they offer and their internal issues are seperate topics

[pseudo burrow]

good take from fuu 👍

[vestal wren]

to be clear, i am all for them solving those issues first

[potent dagger]

And they say that frenchies are the worst customers lol

XD

They still havent fixed the poison issue dunno how many time it will take for them to solve the sbs issue

[vestal wren]

if i would priorize those bugs i would say sbs is the one that needs more attention

assassination is even with the poison bug in a excellent position

and it in the end does not impact gameplay experience

[open reef]

Id say for now play what You have or what you want and in few weeks everyone will be able to swap on set that pulls ahead

[native belfry]

Do we need to play around Chaos Bane proc somehow specifically?

[fathom flax]

I’ve actually done 0 mythic, just fill cleared normal and almost full cleared heroic since w1

[zinc frost]

Especially if they are all about meaningful choice, I’ve never cared about what is highest simming covenant but grinds my gears if the one I enjoy the most is annoying af to play cause of a bug

[fathom flax]

But now I need 150 for r5

[vestal wren]

i think the problem with the sbs bug is just player feedback

[limpid plinth]

How much costs to upgrade 1 shard from rank 3 to 4

[vestal wren]

e.g. it just feels terrible losing sbs resets to a bug

[minor anchor]

30 @limpid plinth

[zinc frost]

Bone spikes are actually the most fun in mythic plus with sin, hoping they give it the attention it needs 🙏🙏

[limpid plinth]

Oh nice i can upgrade them all to 4 then

[north basin]

bonespike really good ability, got used to very quickly.

sometimes it even eat stack and not giving 1 cp xD noticed yesterday on mythic nine.

[atomic temple]

!deathly

[vestal wren]

deathly is only a thing for #subtlety

[cloud reef]

Whats the bug with sbs and sin poison bug?

[vestal wren]

sbs bug list (from 📌)

!pb poison bug:

[prisma monolith]

Deadly Poison doesn't apply on some casts like Garrote, Rupture, and Shiv.
It's a minor bug but "notable" in that it does have some noticeable impact on DPS.
Should be around a 100-200 dps loss

[north basin]

anyone tried emeni this reset in m+? with pustules?

good aoe results? and overall dps increased?

[sterile chasm]

Hello

Sylvanas dagger works on aoe?

Or hit only main target?

[tacit wedge]

Fellas, which anima do you usually use in pugs? Stone Ward/Book/Necrotic/Axe?

[vestal wren]

they don't work in aoe on multiple targets

[tacit wedge]

Was thinking of taking champion's brand instead of raging haste to avoid loadint even more damage in my exec

[fathom flax]

Prydaz + necro dagger or Phoenix flame depending on dungeon + vial + champ brand

[fathom flax]

It’s 50 embers to rank 4 then 50 to rank 5, per shard

I would hazard a guess, and this is how I’ve done it, level Unholy to rank 4, then other 2 dps shards, then go back and get unholy5

[reef axle]

with obe do u just use flag off cd? no holding it for vend?

[sinful cradle]

Pretty sure its not 50 embers for 3 --> 4

Think it was 30 embers to upgrade 3 to 4

[limpid scarab]

hold flag for vendetta only if u don't lose a cast during the fight.

[reef axle]

even with obe?

[lethal magnet]

yes

[winged basin]

[fathom flax]

It’s 50 embers 1->4

5+15+30

Then 50 to 5

[wary pawn]

so best strat is 3 unholy rank 4 then save 150 for rank 5 i guess?

cuz no nerfs inc

[sinful cradle]

He asked for the cost for 3 to 4 tho

[fathom flax]

I definitely read his question wrong

[vestal wren]

context?

[winged basin]

No context, just method tweet saying hi to da rogues

I just unironically spam kek, it’s turned into a habit

[wind totem]

Whats the contexxt for this?

oops nvm

someone already asked

[winged basin]

Ye no context, I’d imagine Method is looking for rogue players? I just thought it was a nice thingy cause nobody says anything to the shadow bois

[idle star]

we have a NF BM hunter sustaining 10k on heroic Remnant...

noone else is anywhere near this dude

are any of you sustaining 10k dps on heroic bosses?

[slim wagon]

does tarragrue coount ? 🤣

[fallen arch]

Ye Nine

[idle star]

any ST bosses?

[fallen arch]

And Fatescribe

[grim jay]

close. dormazain as sub 9.8k with a fuck-up. tho it has addspawns

[idle star]

our NF BM hunter has his cov ability as TOp dmg and is sustaining 10k ST

like why am i even playing a fkn melee?

when i can play a braindead BM

[grim jay]

I mean

thats not a question that shouldve come up just now

tho melees are the better people

[late birch]

guess i can upgrade my UH set now

[young nacelle]

yeah i just upgraded all mine lmao

[deft obsidian]

Guardians yeh

But heroic stuff is super quick kills now

[winged basin]

I got all 3 frost shards last night and mythic tarragrue shoulders, worth using the frost set in its current state? I don’t have the helm for the unholy set because rng gods hate me

[hollow river]

How we feeling now that shards aren’t getting nerfed boys

[olive peak]

Yea I upgraded mine to rank 3 cause my luck is terrible too.. it's about 4-5% of my dmg so not bad for now

[hollow river]

Wonder if they buff frost shards now

[limber lion]

Maybe, probably at least pushing the frost set fix in if nothing else.

[hollow haven]

I did 10.1k dps on remnant hc as sub rogue

[limber lion]

link logs

@idle star

let me see

[hollow river]

Time to start playing hunter ele mage

Rogue too hard

[undone summit]

We can go and upgrade unholy now right ?

[gentle gyro]

as it turns out, parses are meaningless

[limber lion]

Yes

[shut garnet]

[gloomy fern]

[shut garnet]

you lacking an unholy set i imagine or?

[kind talon]

[warm parcel]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/HZ4QNMV3f6h1LGRF#fight=19&type=damage-done

[gloomy fern]

this is what unholy set does

[warm parcel]

Not quite 10k but ait

[shut garnet]

[kind talon]

jesus

[gentle gyro]

ye. but the point was, i was complaining about parsing grey 1 week prior

and i don't think i improved so drastically

[soft shale]

yea just buy a pocket kyrian druid

they come in all sizes someties with a hunter

[gloomy fern]

only adds dmg to the druid doesnt it

[soft shale]

leggo gives 8% crit

all the time

and 16% when he activates ability

[gloomy fern]

ah

[limber lion]

Yeah not quite

[warm parcel]

Interesting to choose to crusade against hunters in rogue spec channels

[soft shale]

together we are in the raid uselessness department

[limber lion]

speak for yourself.

:____________)

[gloomy fern]

[soft shale]

our main forte is just bring more dam

[limber lion]

yeah lots of it

far from useless.

[soft shale]

wait until frost set takes off

immortal rogues inc

[gloomy fern]

cev venthyr sub yet?

[soft shale]

also im being very unlucky with conduit upgrades anyone has gotten anything good yet

[kind talon]

r u t6 archivist

[soft shale]

yea

im 5k into paragon

[limber lion]

Venthyr, sure

Sub, ehhh

[gloomy fern]

[deft obsidian]

Gonna run it on Soulrender, see what all the faff is about

[wise gull]

Cev is too powerful to turn to the dark side

[soft shale]

cev and seli are going to make assa great again

we will watch your career with great interest

[reef axle]

if u get sylv dagger, can u use it in off hand if the other dagger is high ilvl?\

[limber lion]

Already beating most sub parses on mythic.

[limber lion]

Yes, use it in your off-hand.

[gloomy fern]

you have best gear in game

[limber lion]

I tried it, had better results with sin.

[gloomy fern]

even better than me

[limber lion]

Not true.

There's people that are better geared.

I had best gear the second week, sure.

[deft obsidian]

I figured CT pops decently on adds anyways?

[odd hazel]

cevs like

250?

damn didnt know

[limber lion]

hell nah

[odd hazel]

isnt he only like 239

[gloomy fern]

im only 247

[limber lion]

Nah, I got some upgrades yesterday

I'm like 242 now

massive stonks

[odd hazel]

so you have better gear then him

weird champ

[deft obsidian]

I had a huge week one, then been crap the last 2 weeks

[soft shale]

yea cev sacrificed week 1 luck

[limber lion]

[wise gull]

242 gang

[gloomy fern]

they keep giving me gear

[soft shale]

trader guild

reported

kek

[mild dagger]

231 gang 20 pf runs still no phial gang

[gloomy fern]

got 252 gloves, 252 neck traded yday

[deft obsidian]

Pepelands see the truly value of shadowbois

[gloomy fern]

[limber lion]

??????

252 totem

[mild dagger]

Must be nice

[limber lion]

phial

my guy

[gloomy fern]

u checking wcl?

update it

[limber lion]

oh shit

246 dagger inc?

[gloomy fern]

nah neck and waist

[soft shale]

big gains

[mild dagger]

Guild tank does a pf with me gets phial and is like idk I might need for off spec

[quaint sequoia]

Really wished they gave rogues some kind of raid utility

[soft shale]

i got hc neck yesterday

[limber lion]

jesus fuck

that neck is nasty

[quaint sequoia]

like crit buff or give back smoke bomb

[wise gull]

my gear stonks will be up once i replace my 226 chest/shoulders

[limber lion]

wtb mizu's gear

[mild dagger]

I shroud before pulls and turn it off when my friends get close to boss so they get smacked

[soft shale]

yea he is jacked

[gloomy fern]

no shoulders for last dps shard

[mild dagger]

What more utility do you need

[limber lion]

yeah

this though

[gloomy fern]

not fair

[limber lion]

Lmao

[deft obsidian]

First vault, true love

[quaint sequoia]

haha love it, but that doesn't get u invites to pugs 😛

[mild dagger]

I’m malding

[gloomy fern]

actually no point for me to run m+ @limber lion i can only get ring, 252 phial

[limber lion]

.

[gloomy fern]

and thats if its vault

[soft shale]

im running m+ now to get the mastery crit set rolling

[limber lion]

yeaah, my only upgrade from m+ is phial as well

but like 10 items from the vault

[soft shale]

yea vault items can still be lit

[gloomy fern]

i have the 200 iq strat with only 5 mythic kills though for 2 chances on sylv dagger

[limber lion]

Sylvanas this week

Dagger from boss and from vault

[soft shale]

i have 4 m kills calculated

[gloomy fern]

u havent killed sylv hc this reset?

[deft obsidian]

Real news, swapping to outlaw to get a painsmith wep to trade then forgetting to swap back to sin for hc Sylvanas and mythic remnant last night. Sadge

[limber lion]

Ah no, talking about mythic

We did kill Sylvi HC

[mild dagger]

Is sylvanas dagger a big ST upgrade

[gloomy fern]

u think u get it before reset

[soft shale]

also next week we have hc chest

so a lot of prayges

[limber lion]

Well, we have like 4 days

[gloomy fern]

OT?

[limber lion]

We're currently at KT

idk, depends on how we do

if we suck, then oh well

[soft shale]

kt can be fucku after mana change

[limber lion]

nah it was pretty hcill

we did a few pulls

We just get one extra set of tank adds

nothing too bad

[gloomy fern]

painsmith depression right now

[wise gull]

im scared of painsmith

[limber lion]

Painsmith was my favorite boss.

[shut garnet]

did u switch to sub for it?

[limber lion]

No

[shut garnet]

fair enough

[gloomy fern]

think im gonna be lazy funnel boss instead of ball

[limber lion]

Still did more damage than any public sub log

[gloomy fern]

[limber lion]

and more p3 damage than anyone

so

worked out fine

[limber lion]

Oh you just wait

It'll be

"stop dps"

[gloomy fern]

ye i know

[limber lion]

"mizu, for real, stop dps"

"mizu, go away from boss"

[gloomy fern]

already stops for 30s

during p1

[limber lion]

Yup

[gloomy fern]

[limber lion]

P3 is pumping all the way through though

That's fun

[shut garnet]

on paper at least sub seems better since u can funnel ball dmg and ss bp the adds

dunno how much sin can do to those unless ur running CT like JUST for that

[limber lion]

For sure, it's the versatile pick for the fight.

Well, I didn't really do any damage to the adds

[soft shale]

we have ret+monk so adds

lets say get vaporized

[ornate lake]

Finally boys!

[soft shale]

pog

[thorny pond]

Ayyyy

[limber lion]

Yeah, we had massive blasters for adds as well

Didn't need my damage whatsoever

[ornate lake]

guidlie ele sham with enh spec got it, had to outroll another guildie

[soft shale]

can get a good snd then cp ready for flag at least

[limber lion]

I mean, I just maintained Alacrity through the intermissions

and then rup fok rup a few adds

and then pump boss

[soft shale]

yea the other rogue was assa also on nerz until the ball hp killed his dps

[limber lion]

I mean it's fine

[gloomy fern]

p3 is only dps check

[limber lion]

I did way more damage this week than the last weeks

but I guess I got a few upgrades

and well, the kill was also 1 min faster

[gloomy fern]

this reset was first with a set

[limber lion]

love it

[quasi venture]

kinda satisfying

[dark crag]

This week was so good, 5 gem slots, fusionamp trinket, normal sylv dagger

[gloomy fern]

ppl keep updating my simdps on wowprog

they so jelly

[late birch]

im sure this was asked before but is it okay to end on like -4 CP to squeeze extra into Flag?

[valid leaf]

I got 2x 252 daggers from vault do i swap one for sylvanas dagger if i get it dropped today

[limber lion]

I used to have #1 simdps in the world in Ny'alotha

And in EP

Good days.

Stacking infinite stars before logging off

[valid leaf]

My mind is telling me noo
But my body my body is telling me sim it KEKW

[limber lion]

400 corruption profile

[gloomy fern]

im only 6 world 2 rogue

[limber lion]

that's still super dank

[gloomy fern]

nothing beats 2x hc sylv. 252, hc sylv beats hc sylv - norm sylv though

or at least for sub

[thin imp]

hmm yesterday I got what I thought was a great substitution to my 226 dagger, de sylvanas normal dagger

[late birch]

I cant see bis soulbinds and stuff in pins anymore

[thin imp]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7qQV6kbfJdEr213LVKSR9G

just 19 more dps

[thin imp]

so no sure about this )=

[gloomy fern]

just looks very wrong use nightly

[thin imp]

Okay, I will give it a try

[gloomy fern]

but im a sub player dont know how much edge of night is for assa

should be way more

[cobalt pelican]

kinda bad

like it's worth using but it's nowhere near subs gains

[thin imp]

it did 37.9k in The nine fight, which was 1.57% of my damage

[quasi venture]

its like 14 dps increase with sylv hc dagger if its mist daggers atleast in 252

[gloomy fern]

unlucky

there is a better spec if u wanna utilize ur new shiny dagger

[cobalt pelican]

assassination spends like half of the amount of cps sub does across a fight or something stupid

• no deeper daggers/whatever

[thin imp]

yea, I have to do the sim for sub and see the actual difference, I was planning to go sub anyways for some bosses but at work atm

[quasi venture]

Imagine seeing daggers drop tho

[thin imp]

I got excited, sim and all the excitement went through the window

[quasi venture]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6CRF5MXT352PyUhAYW2QxH my sim atm, and sylv hc dagger is like 250 dps increase for me so il take anything atm...... done 40+ mists i think this season not a single drop

[odd hazel]

What stats are you guys pushing for with party favor ?

[thin imp]

whatever it rolls, the difference is rather small

[thin imp]

that vial, that ring, I offer a 233 sylv dagger e.e

[odd hazel]

Figured but was curious if should just reset until we get crit

[quasi venture]

haha. yea, gonna look better when i cba to get tier 6 aswell. but urgh

[alpine latch]

Well .. Fuck. My. life. I upgraded Frost for the nerf and they are reverting it altogether

I knew I shouldn't have done it

[quasi venture]

[mild dagger]

[quaint carbon]

!def

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Defensives usability: http://tiny.cc/q602uz

[cobalt pelican]

i like the way everyone just rounds their 10 dungeon runs for items up to the nearest 100

omg guys i did like 100000 plaguefall runs today and all i looted was 2 anima and a stick of gum

[wise gull]

its true

it took me like 100 plaguefalls for my phial

[quasi venture]

took me 300,000 runs to even question the existance of phial. whatever do you mean @cobalt pelican

[rocky pecan]

i would like to see that 300 000 run

[quasi venture]

yea it's all recorded under 🧢

[dark crag]

I can give you 1 run

But it took me 2 runs for dagger and ring with socket

[silk thunder]

I am just a bit weary of refarming the same gear. Bring back Soul Cap...or any fun non passive trinket.

[vast forum]

I've done 30+ pfs and 8 ppl who needed/couldn't trade looted phial

[alpine latch]

You get into keys?

Took me an hour to get into a 13

[wise gull]

pretty hard if you dont have io

[alpine latch]

Yeah, I'm only like 1400. Been spending a good chunk of time in other games

Trying to branch out and get back to enjoying gaming again

[wise gull]

even 13/14 plaguefalls will have many applications in the 2.1k range

hard to compete

[prisma cypress]

i got a phial from my second plaguefall run. still using 220 weapons though

[narrow ravine]

target your weakest link for m+ score, if you have a low one bring it up eventually you will hit 2k

but its a lot of work yes

[fair void]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/b5qxtt2p8VCwutXWisozY1 what do you think guys? is there something i should change or fix?

[vast forum]

I don't pug

[silk thunder]

Pushed for 2k in the 1st couple of weeks to be able to get in keys and upgrade gear

Ton of work to get that done

[narrow ravine]

make sure you don't have any 0 point dungeons for sure, you need points in both fort and tyr weeks

[silk thunder]

Burned out on keys for a bit

[odd hazel]

I’m at 1903 right now. Just sad I got a key I don’t need any more this week

[narrow ravine]

they make everything a grind these days

[odd hazel]

It’s an mmo

[narrow ravine]

you can trade in your key at the end of a run for a random new one at least

[odd hazel]

Only if it’s equal or higher

[alpine latch]

Woah, look at this guy who has friends and an active guild ....

[wise gull]

speaking of burnout

[prisma cypress]

if there's no grind then people complain they've got nothing to do

lol

[silk thunder]

Archivist rep is a real grind

[wise gull]

in the past 2 weeks

[silk thunder]

Ouch.

[prisma cypress]

back to WoD where you just log in for raid and that's it

[silk thunder]

Gear farm or boosting

[wise gull]

gear farm

[narrow ravine]

what setup are you guys going into keys with, been trying sin for a few weeks and wonder if I should alt spec for m+

[wise gull]

i play sub in keys

feels pretty good rn

[narrow ravine]

havent touched sub since BfA

[odd hazel]

Sin is fine in keys, EP/Sub/vigor/CT

[subtle tundra]

sin really pog in keys

[narrow ravine]

might give it a go

[prisma cypress]

im considering playing sub on fortified weeks

[subtle tundra]

but...

[silk thunder]

Sub does good in keys once you get the rhytum down

[subtle tundra]

assa aoe of tyra is dogshit cause it takes time to ramp

how's that your train of thought

[silk thunder]

I prefer to just mindlessly mash flurry

[prisma cypress]

train of thought is that trash dps doesnt matter as much on tyrannical

[wise gull]

shuriken tornado go brrrr

[subtle tundra]

it does

[wise gull]

all dps matters

[prisma cypress]

it all matters, but bosses are a greater proportion on tyra

[subtle tundra]

you gain the time lost on long bosses from going through trash extremely fast

bro

[prisma cypress]

and they're the "hard part"

your group will most likely have other dps that are better suited to aoe

[vast forum]

Well if i didn't have them, i wouldn't be playing the game

I envy the determination of people who play "solo"

Only pugging must be a nightmare

[narrow ravine]

I still dont have a dom helmet, so I can upgrade frost set but not unholy, feels a bit risky right now

[alpine latch]

I've gotten AotC and multiple Mythic bosses each tier while pugging. I'm in a guild, but I'll have AotC before they do and I'll probably be 2-3 bosses deep into Mythic before they even start it.

[austere gorge]

guys, please help me decide for 262 legendary. obedience or dooblade?

i dont know how to sim can someone help me ? il give me code 🙂

[wise gull]

Sounds like you should be somewhere else

[thorny pond]

Do you play sub?

[austere gorge]

ventyr sin bro

[thorny pond]

Do you also play sub

or a OTP sin?

[alpine latch]

I want to go back to my Alliance guild, but they're full right now and told me that they won't replace someone for me to come back until the next tier.

[narrow ravine]

go to raidbots.com do Top Gear, you can sim different legendaries at 262 with that but it might be more complicated, like you might need to sim different soulbinds and other things

[austere gorge]

i play outlaw as of now on my m+

[wise gull]

there are plenty of guilds out there

[austere gorge]

but if m+ better sub . i can go for it

[thorny pond]

Bruh, do you or do you not play sub in any PvE content

[wise gull]

even if the process is intimidating, you'll probably end up happier

[thorny pond]

that's my question

[narrow ravine]

they sound like they don't really want you back and are being passive aggressive about it

[austere gorge]

no bro, i only play Sin

[thorny pond]

then pick which you want. They are both close enough

Obedience gives you better options for sin M+ till you get zolds

[alpine latch]

You literally just said you played Outlaw for m+ and now you're saying you only play Sin in PvE content. Which is it?

[austere gorge]

sorry, i misunderstood. ok . i play sin on raids.. and sin/outlaw on m+

[alpine latch]

Sub, in theory, is better - if you can perform it at the same level or higher than you do Outlaw.

Venthyr also isn't ideal for Outlaw, I believe if you're Sin/Outlaw you want to go Necro

[thorny pond]

Meh. Outlaw you get better CC tools which high M+ cares about. If you're just a 15 andy any spec is fine

[wise gull]

It varies between dungeons

[alpine latch]

Sure

[wise gull]

Outlaw is without a doubt better in ToP/PF

[alpine latch]

Outlaw, in theory, is the best m+ spec though. Sub might do more damage but Outlaw brings more CC

[austere gorge]

which is better in raid? sub or sin?

[thorny pond]

Are you good at WoW?

[manic merlin]

Depends on the fight

[alpine latch]

Played at the same level? Probably Sub, but honestly it really depends on the fight and your own skill level

[lavish lichen]

Honestly kinda new myself and the way I’m seeing it

If you want to play rogue optimally

[alpine latch]

They are pretty competitive, so whatever you're better with will probably end up being best

[lavish lichen]

You play all 3

[austere gorge]

so playing sub/sin obedience is better?

😛

nicee thanks guys for inputs

[alpine latch]

If you want to be good, master one, not all 3.

[wise gull]

if you're probably going to only play sin in raid, just make doomblade

[lavish lichen]

You can master all 3

[manic merlin]

Best thing you can do if you gonna m+ actively and mythic prog is to play sub and sin

[narrow ravine]

harder to try and make good legendaries for more than one spec at a time

[alpine latch]

You can master all 3. But it's better to spend your time learning the ins and outs of perfecting one spec than half-ass knowing all 3.

[narrow ravine]

its more late tier when you go all 3

[austere gorge]

actually, im more comfortable doing sub/sin.. so i think
I will just stay with my doomblade for a while..

[manic merlin]

not because outlaw is bad or anything like that, its just that it requieres different weapons, stats and covenant to perform

[alpine latch]

If you're a Venthyr, just make rank 6 Obedience first.

It's great for ST and m+, Sin and Sub

[wise gull]

If he's been playing sin up until this point he should just make doomblade

By the time he's comfortable on sub he'll be able to make 262 obedience

[alpine latch]

For my gear level, Doomblade gets me 26 DPS more than Obedience

[manic merlin]

this

[alpine latch]

The doomblade/obedience DPS difference is insanely close for me. Not sure how gear changes that, but at 230-something, the difference is almost nothing

[narrow ravine]

I think that is the best thing about rogues right now, there are so many damn close setups

[prisma cypress]

i think it's pretty damn close for everyone

[alpine latch]

Yup

That's the point

[austere gorge]

thanks guys! il go for sub/sin then..

[alpine latch]

Yes, you can gain 20-30 DPS doing Doomblade, but you can also use Obedience cross-spec AND for different types of content.

[narrow ravine]

like venthyr vs necro, doom vs obed, frost vs unholy, dashing

[prisma cypress]

yeah, that's what sold me on obedience

[narrow ravine]

you can build your rogue several ways and be nearly the same

[alpine latch]

If I don't want to do Torghast one week, that's fine because Obedience is good enough. I don't need that extra 30 DPS to get AotC and a few Mythic bosses killed

[wild mural]

You don’t need 30 dps unless you’re clearing the raid week 1 tbf

[hasty crater]

I mean not rly. A lot of people play necro sin which is good in raid and then necro outlaw in keys

[subtle tundra]

necro not good rn cause its buggy

[hasty crater]

Okay yeah buggy is something else, but necro sin is rly good if stuff works correctly

[alpine latch]

Necro is so much better in Torghast too

Venthyr gets shit for power

[sick aspen]

would there happen to be any log analyzers around that are available?

[narrow ravine]

wowanalyzer but not sure its been updated for 9.1 yet

[sick aspen]

don't think it is, was hoping someone to find someone here who's more proficient at reading them than I am

[alpine latch]

I don't think it was updated for 9.0 either, lol

Just post it, if someone has time they'll take a look

[thorny pond]

link

[slow marsh]

Link em in here

[hollow river]

This is different for everyone

[silent fossil]

doomblade actually sims less for me last i checked lol

[hollow river]

Yeah but for some people it’s still ahead like 200dps

[silent fossil]

they must have wild profiles

[hollow river]

Everyone’s profile is different

Last I checked doomblade was ahead 100dps

[silent fossil]

ofc just curious what stat weighting they have or what gear level they have for that to occur

[hollow river]

Probably changed by now haven’t checked in a week or so

From what I’ve seen the most of, the less gear you have the more doomblade is ahead

[alpine latch]

Exactly, that's why I prefaced it by saying that for me the difference was almost nothing, so I went with Obedience first and I'll be making DB/Zoldyck/Dashing after.

[hollow river]

Yeah either way all leggos are good 😁

I’ve got all the main ones for all specs except dashing

[silent fossil]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pfVyTpGdS94woPydUTWBUX im at work and this site sucks on mobile. can you take my raw input and keep sack cuz i aint using that eyeball shit and sim it with a doom cloak

[hollow river]

You can