assassination

[vestal wren]

probably because they care about the information ^^

[slow marsh]

It's all of it. Trinkets and dagger damage procs, which are affected by vers, make getting free vers from an ability that you can simultaneously reduce the CD on better

[balmy condor]

Fantastic, I would be more than happy to help people who care about the information

In fact, nothing would make me happier than to help alleviate their concerns

Please tell them to talk to me

[vestal wren]

i mean i already stated why its problematic and you seemingly disagree.

so we had the discussion

[balmy condor]

I mean it’s a difference of opinion right

But if people think the information is wrong or want an explanation

Regarding the pin

[vestal wren]

its about it being missleading

[balmy condor]

Then I’m happy to help them with that

[slow marsh]

Do the Sims currently reflect the sbs bug(s)?

[vestal wren]

yes, and its fine to have diffrences in opinion

[limber lion]

No

[slow marsh]

Oh ok

Yet they are pinned right

Weird

[balmy condor]

Maybe I should add that necro is oversimming

[vestal wren]

as mentioned, its also not to me obviouse that i shouldn't use the set.
rephrasing it from:
THE EFFECT IS WORKING VERY AWKWARDLY AND THIS MAY CHANGE, DO NOT HARD COMMIT
to sth like
DONT USE IT BECAUSE IT SEEMS BUSTED ATM
woudl already eliminate all concerns i guess

[slow marsh]

That when something is confirmed a bug

Is not a problme

[balmy condor]

Sure I can do that

[slow marsh]

But something that MIGHT be a bug

Is misleading

[vestal wren]

nice

[slow marsh]

Just seems weird is all

To nitpick over one thing but not the other

[balmy condor]

Is that better?

[vestal wren]

yes

[balmy condor]

Fantastic

I’ll also add the thing about necro oversimming

Since we’re already at it

[wild beacon]

I still don't understand and I will definitely be going all in balls to the wall

[vestal wren]

necrolord is a covenant ability that you don't deliberately switch to or commit resources you would need somewhere else.

[slow marsh]

Except you're commiting your whole ass cov choice to it

So actually that's wrong imo

Respectfully of course

[balmy condor]

I would say that time is a resource you’re committing, similarly to the time you’re committing leveling gems

[vestal wren]

yes but you could spend your upgrades on frost in this case without gaining benefits or even lowering your output

[balmy condor]

But ya know

That’s just pedantic

And we’re not about pedantic arguments

Just facts

And good info

[limber lion]

Yeh I swapped and got locked for 2 weeks

Similar to how Embers are timegated as well

[slow marsh]

2 weeks of cov selection is about the same as rank 4 on 3 gems no?

[balmy condor]

Roughly yeah

[slow marsh]

Rank 3 for sure

[balmy condor]

Yeah rank 3 for sure

[slow marsh]

Which is where frost starts to take over considering your crit

[balmy condor]

Rank 4 on all 3 might be rough

[slow marsh]

Also

You need all the Dom gear anyways

And you need one of the gems high as well (dps)

[golden prairie]

220 gloves gang where you at

[slow marsh]

So ultimately you are spending resource on 2 gems

And that's worst case scenario

[vestal wren]

the problem right now is that you have limited ressources

this problem solves itself over time

[gloomy knoll]

i mean realistically

if this shit isn't even good until

END GAME builds anyways

it's not really an issue

[balmy condor]

The covenant thing or the gem thing?

[gloomy knoll]

you just do normal unholy set stuff now

[vestal wren]

gems/domination sockets/embers

[slow marsh]

The same exact thing is applied to necrolords being bugged

[balmy condor]

Oh okay

[gloomy knoll]

and worry about it when you already start leveling up frost

cuz u done with unholy

[vestal wren]

bugs rly need to be fixed asap

[slow marsh]

Well yeah sure they do. But we can look at blizz track history for bug fix timers

[vestal wren]

esp. for necrolord, i think the sbs bug is for m+ players quite a pita

[glass grotto]

Im about to just go Venthyr if the bugs continue

[gloomy knoll]

not even a +30 lvl obedience and edge makes obedience good 😦

[slow marsh]

At the end of the day we are nitpicking the fact that certain people asked about a potential gain of 300 dps that previously fell through the cracks. Then it was explored in sims and confirmed. Now we are saying that it might be bugged, we aren't sure yet though so don't go all in but it could be a thing so keep an eye out. A pin was made that very clearly conveys all of that information. But for some reason that shouldn't be allowed? Even though the necrolord thing exists and that's not an issue?

[gloomy knoll]

guess i need a lot more gear

[slow marsh]

Come-on, surely we are better than that

[vestal wren]

we are sure its bugged

its just not in simc

[indigo mulch]

Whsts bugged about it?

[vestal wren]

koji talked about it in here too

[slow marsh]

Ok so shouldn't the Necro sims be taken down then

Because sbs is bugged

[indigo mulch]

Tryinf to find what was buggy

[slow marsh]

Also shouldn't the outlaw pins be addressed as well if this is how it's going to be handled

[slow marsh]

Frost 3 set bonus

[vestal wren]

i am not sure what you try to iterate on

the complain was only that the pin stated that you should sim it but "use at your own risk" more or less

this makes it appeal as save to use, what we adressed by changing wording

this was not about taking any sims/information down

but rather correct it to keep the information transparent and avoid wrong conclusions

[slow marsh]

I'm iterating in the clear double standard that is being sey

Set

That's all

[vestal wren]

what double standard?

the sims/information about the frost set is still in the pins and can be observed

[slow marsh]

The double standard that's been highlighted for the last however long

[vestal wren]

i don't rly understand your point

[slow marsh]

Outlaw pins very clearly state frost is the way to go and invest in that. Sims clearly show Necro is very close to venthyr and better in multi target so invest in that

Just seems silly

[vestal wren]

oh

i didn't know outlaw had a pin for it too

[slow marsh]

Well alright then

[vestal wren]

ill ask solo to put a disclaimer on top

[slow marsh]

Like I fully support wanting to make sure people have all the most up to date and accurate information. I sit in here all day and night answering as many questions as I can with the most up to date info I have, and explaining why x y and z are the way they are. But with stuff like that the standard just needs to be the same across the board for everyone.

[potent chasm]

hi all, I see some rouges opening like this... is there a reason for that or did I miss anything?

[abstract venture]

Regardless, thank you for the hard work making it easy for us to get the knowledge for free.. @slow marsh you are complaining about something you are getting for free bro..

[vestal wren]

i thought the information went through, koji even stated this some hours ago

[slow marsh]

Technically the vendetta blood fury should be after the flag rupture but yeah that's correct

[limber lion]

That is the correct opener, what exactly is out of order in your mind?

[slow marsh]

That's not really what's going on but ty for your concern

[vestal wren]

i hold everyone to the same standard 😛

[true jewel]

snd between two first mutilates

[balmy condor]

Do you hold yourself to that same standard?

[limber lion]

It is there, it's just cropped out

[slow marsh]

Yes I know that's your intention and I by no means want to come off as having disrespect towards you

[vestal wren]

i hope so

[balmy condor]

Aight let’s begin then

[slow marsh]

But sometimes intention doesn't match the actions

[potent chasm]

I thought this is the opener,^^

[potent dagger]

i'm turning mad T_T

[balmy condor]

I think it’s misleading that you’re comparing covenants with legendaries in here

These two sections here highlight the wrong lines

Fae here is a loss in aoe entirely because it’s not comparing soulbinds at all

[vestal wren]

#1 is because it isolates the legendary powers. You need a baseline to compare it to if you want to know the relative gain
#2 is a oversight in my update, thanks for mentioning it
#3 is the same as #1 as it only looks at it in isolation

[true jewel]

Not correct at all i think, should use shiv when u have 3-4 cp to vanish and go envenom mutilate enveom empowered

[balmy condor]

Perhaps adding something like “covenant ability” to #3 would be better then don’t you think?

I’m a little confused just looking at the deltas and seeing fae at a 0.8% loss

[slow marsh]

No offense but I actually was looking at that whole sheet a couple days ago when I was toying with the dashing idea in the first place and felt the sheet was all over the place as a whole and the fact there were no combinations of everything working together led me to just closing and ignoring

[balmy condor]

Cause it was my understanding korayn and niya are very good in aoe

[vestal wren]

Sure, why not

[slow marsh]

Like there's so many isolated data points that are almost completely irrelevant because of how misleading it is in the grand scheme of how it all works together

[balmy condor]

I’m also not too sure posting things like this doesn’t lead to more confusion, because this looks like obedience is basically akaari level, and resounding is giga

So I see that and I go wow kyrian huge

But lashing is a big part of why obedience is good

[fallow glacier]

Not true, shiv immediately after vendetta, followed by vanish mut

[vestal wren]

there are several things that make venthyr good

[balmy condor]

I know there are

[vestal wren]

lashing and obedience are the 2 big parts

i can just remove it if it seems missleading

[balmy condor]

But I also get that everything is very micro isolation

Is a bad representation of what actually happens

No one (hopefully) is going to look at a sim between venthyr and kyrian at 0 renown and make a decision on that

[potent chasm]

many guides don't tell this^^

[balmy condor]

Or look at a soulbind chart and see built for war on draven as the strongest in the game and run that

You know what I mean?

[vestal wren]

i mean it rly depends what we want to point out

if we discuss how representative our sims are

this is also very missleading

the problem is it does not account for lower gear levels and don't consider renown levels

its a short time issue as over long time we will have renown

breaking stuff down to individual systems is one approach, and it def. has flaws but so has every approach

[slow marsh]

I mean that's a slippery slope imo lol

[vestal wren]

e.g for subtlety showing theo is actually bad given nadja wins out till you unlock party flavours

mikanikos needs high renown to become this powerful

[slow marsh]

Cuz now you need to have sims for every ilevel breakpoint and every week renown unlock and so on and soforth

[balmy condor]

Why would I show something that changes with 2 weeks of renown

[vestal wren]

the same reason you don't want bis lists

you don't want people to make wrong decisions

[stuck knoll]

But none of these systems work in isolation

Like at all

[slow marsh]

Literally everything

[balmy condor]

There’s a difference between someone taking a 30 ilvl loss from a vault because they don’t understand bis lists

[stuck knoll]

So showing them in isolation is the same problem

[balmy condor]

And someone looking at what the strongest combo is at max soulbinds

[vestal wren]

oh, absolutely ronkles

e.g. for subtlety, nadja wins out for now till this reset

yet its easy to just look at the chart and go with theo

in the end its a player issue who didn't sim

[slow marsh]

Those are questions that are answered in the channel every day

[balmy condor]

It says “best combination for each soulbind”

[slow marsh]

Those questions are why the channel exists

Meanwhile we can look at pins to see the max potential and make decisions along the way accordingly

[balmy condor]

There’s a reason it says that and not “best combination for each soulbind at 80 renown specifically and not before that because party favors btw”

[fallow glacier]

It’s a minimal difference, but fitting more muts into your MA window allows for more envenoms in your shiv

[balmy condor]

Because not having full soulbind trees 2 weeks into a patch is normal

That’s implied

[vestal wren]

i had a section about mythic week renown levels in my spreadsheet

[balmy condor]

Do you think people see 11.5k on the sim and go “hm, that seems really high I’m only at 8k, I wonder how that’s possible with mythic only out for a week”

Like

It’s that high

Because it’s supposed to be

[vestal wren]

so, what are we discussing?

[balmy condor]

I mean we’re pointing out downsides to each other’s process

[slow marsh]

Uhhhh I think how you don't hold yourself to the same standard that you are holding others

Then you came with a weak counter argument

[vestal wren]

but i don't

[slow marsh]

And now we are here

[vestal wren]

the spreadsheet is just additional information, it could be trimmed down to only show the final sims

[stuck knoll]

I think that we've had our public airing of grievances and Fuu and Whispyr should finish this in dms

[slow marsh]

Fair

[vestal wren]

having a diffrent approach to see individual impact of systems is not bad per se, it just allowes you to look at individual stuff

[slow marsh]

I think this would be great actually

[faint harness]

the most important question (imo) about all of this is: "who am i making this for?". If the answer is casuals and people that need help, breaking everything down in micro levels is not going to be helpful. Having a goal to work for like showing a future, decently realistic sim which likely contains close to the best items, best conduits, legendary and soulbind is far more understandable for a majority of people.

[vestal wren]

but why not both, the charts/sim links in #subtlety-faq show link to the max gear simulaitons
and if you want to deep dive you can go to the spreadsheet

[faint harness]

Yea i mean now there is, but it hasnt always been the case. I just think its important to think about who is meant to get information whenever you make something.

[gloomy rose]

I think most of the stuff here is very well done, you cant cover all situations and if people just look at the highest number in first list they see and go for that, its their own fault

[vestal wren]

oh absolutely, we have a high amount of precious people who spend a lot of their time trying to keep everything up to date and providing a lot of information and value to the community

[pseudo nimbus]

Guys if I have 4CP and can cast Garrote is it better to use it and then cast Envenom with 5CP or the other way around to build towards next Envenom?

[plush garnet]

Whats an acceptable overall for say a 15 m+ ?

[olive peak]

Depends on the dungeon

Anything from 7-9k depending on pulls

[limber lion]

It really depends on the dungeon, the group, the tank etc.

There's a lot of variable in M+.

[plush garnet]

7.2k overall on a NW? not awful? 15 key

[limber lion]

Use it to get 5 CP.

[vestal wren]

rly hard to say, i wouldn't get myself hung up on a specific number

[limber lion]

It's not too too great, but it's hard to say.

[olive peak]

It's not good for NW

Considering it had some big pulls

And weps aswelll

[indigo mulch]

It all depends on your comp and how ur tank is pulling.

[olive peak]

Last time I did NW I had 13k but I used one. Orb too

[indigo mulch]

If you timed it then it's fine.

[plush garnet]

Was timed indeed

[indigo mulch]

Im a lil sad they nerfed the weapons.

=c

So @vestal wren is the frost bonus somewhat bugged or is it just overlooked and overtuned?

[vestal wren]

koji did talk about it in the channel

i just leak this (from yesterday)

so possible that it does less than expected

[potent dagger]

@balmy condor may i ask you a question ?

[celest marlin]

Which lege to go for rank 6 first? any advices?

[potent dagger]

depend on you covenant and if you play solely assa or sub as well

and if you play for raiding or mm+ or both

[vestal wren]

i think whispyr is sleeping rn, he is na

[celest marlin]

Venthir hc raid and around 15 m+ keys

[potent dagger]

a great all rounder will be obedience if you are venthyr , doomblade for raiding , zoldyck for mm+ of not venthyr

[grizzled orbit]

It’s reset day, he’s waiting patiently by his vault prob.

[hollow escarp]

also, don't ask if you can ask, just ask 🙂

[potent dagger]

i was wondering , we are simming that sub > assa between 5-8 target

and sub > assa on pure ST

but i have the feeling that assa will beat sub again on more targets

since sub if purely capped to 8 target damage wise , and assa wan spread crimson tempest

and rupture

[vestal wren]

giveme a sec

do you want a scuffed sim with the best 5-8 target talents for sub (so dark and ns) or with more realistic m+ choices?

[hollow escarp]

rupture is not really an aoe ability

wouldn't add it in the "aoe cap" family

[potent dagger]

@vestal wren realistic m+ choice ^^

[limber lion]

Feel free to hit me up if you need help :)

[potent dagger]

i was wondering that since i play with a savage tank and he pull frenquently 10-15 mobs at a time

[potent dagger]

thanls ^^ so the question stay the same :p

[vestal wren]

with the tier profiles and set bonuses, 5 targets:

8 targets

sims:
5t: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/nYpZgfaU3DzoaMLe8omjWU
8t: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/q2LFp9S2aXhcRANRQ1nprA

[potent dagger]

could you try with 10 target ?

[vestal wren]

sure

just keep in mind that this is just a quick sim, so its probably not using the best possible setup

10 targets
sim:https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/weVdL7WPE2wC9kXU6Rzimv

[potent dagger]

ok so

[vestal wren]

but its possible better to use necrolord configurations, giveme a sec to change

[potent dagger]

the assasination damage still increase

but that will take a ridiculous amount of mobs for us to compete -_-

[marble hemlock]

i mean

whats the point of these sims though

when the assa aoe sim isnt even geared for aoe

running 50mastery rating

when mastery is by far the highest simming stat for aoe

[limber lion]

Why are you simming with the Unholy Effect if the question was directed at M+ anyways?

The set effect is not active in dungeons.

[vestal wren]

yes thats why i stated that i kept the set active

[marble hemlock]

its not gonna change the general outcome of the result, that sub has higher sustained aoe than assa in largescale aoe, buts weve had this discussion a few times when it comes to m+, where it actually is important to use a m+ gearset 😛

[vestal wren]

you are absolutelty correct in your critique

[limber lion]

Sure, but why?

[vestal wren]

i probably misunderstood the use case

ill dissable the set bonus and sim both on necrolord hence its probably the highest on sustained aoe

giveme a sec

[grizzled orbit]

This pin is giving me anxiety. I had everything planned out, and now I may have to craft another legendary soon. 😭

[subtle tundra]

i mean, the frost thing is just for pure single target scenarios, right?

[limber lion]

Staying Unholy is a safe bet.

[hollow escarp]

have you simmed your character with dashing and frost set?

[subtle tundra]

and also on sylvanas blindside isnt as good

[limber lion]

Yes, but we wouldn't recommend it.

[subtle tundra]

neither did i

im against going for it until you have everything else

[abstract flicker]

which stats on zoldyck m+ only? mastery crit?

[marble hemlock]

yep

[vestal wren]

dungeon slice: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/np5nb4oBoJXYVozdd2Yhcx
6t: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/o25CqMuPwKV1Si9yhTGPrJ
8t: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ghGNA2NDQUAiRyjn1tpDPY

so again, keep in mind there are a lot of shortcommings like seli pointed out with gear as one example

[potent dagger]

Yeah but that won't close the gap i think

[vestal wren]

both sub/sin have some shortcommings so you could improve both

[potent dagger]

or at a absurd number of target

[abstract flicker]

@marble hemlock how much mastery/haste/crit u play with in m+?

[vestal wren]

but yes the general trend will continue to have sin behind

[potent dagger]

so ... sub training on the way -_-

[marble hemlock]

the fact that sims arent really a good approximation of what actually happens in a dungeon is the bigger factor here. sims only help you so much to get trends, but in the end it matters how you apply them, and most dungeons are a big combination of different fighting styles, where CD management and priority damage matter more than blanket overall

[vestal wren]

but you just need to do a low target cleave sim and suddenly sub looks a lot worse

[potent dagger]

yeah two to three target is the sub weakness

[marble hemlock]

in long sustained aoe, sub will definitely win out on the meters, but a dungeon isnt a long sustained bigpull

[vestal wren]

^this cant be emphasized enough, sustained aoe is rather niche

[marble hemlock]

also

[hollow escarp]

a niche in ardenweald

[limber lion]

M+ is full of variables so simming for it is honestly close to impossible

[marble hemlock]

you need to have fun in m+

this isnt fun

[vestal wren]

also just for reference this is sin vs. assa on 3 target sustaiend:

[marble hemlock]

would sub even wanna play necro tho for m+?

it always felt awkward to weave in SBS as sub

[spice spire]

Sin vs assa

[vestal wren]

it sims higher

[spice spire]

Does that mean sin is the bis abbreviation?

[vestal wren]

assass is the best abbreviation

[grizzled orbit]

ass rogue is what people who hate us call us.

[marble hemlock]

its called assa

[spice spire]

[slow hazel]

Wow is sub so much ahead?

[marble hemlock]

only people who call it sin

are zoomers

[hollow escarp]

americans say sin, europeans assa mostly

[marble hemlock]

and zephyr

[spice spire]

All Americans are Zoomers confirmed

[marble hemlock]

pmuch yeah

[spice spire]

Kinda toxic, but ur not wrong

[hollow escarp]

boomers

[marble hemlock]

those arent people

[vestal wren]

boomers

[limpid plinth]

Or classic andys

[grizzled orbit]

What about people who say combat rogue? BOOMERS

[spice spire]

Classic Andys are boomers tho

[limpid plinth]

True

[marble hemlock]

mutilate didnt exist in classic

[spice spire]

What if I fall it combat and sin? Does that make me a boomer and zoomer?

[grizzled orbit]

Only if you call it combat in retail.

[marble hemlock]

anyway

both sub and assa are looking strong for m+ rn

assa is obviously superior

[spice spire]

Yes

[marble hemlock]

cause it has iron wire

[vestal wren]

outlaw is immo still the better choice overall

[spice spire]

Unbiased opinions in the assassination channel

[marble hemlock]

nah

[limber lion]

Just play the spec you enjoy more.

[marble hemlock]

outlaws are just nibbling on celery while coping that theyre still good in m+

[hollow escarp]

sub has cheap shot in dance, but it's a dps loss

[marble hemlock]

but theres a new boss in town

or should i say... back in town

[spice spire]

Tab and stab gaming

[marble hemlock]

gouge is less and less useful atm in dungeons, so that one edge that outlaw had is kinda disappearing

and sub/assa just straightup beat outlaw in st

[hollow escarp]

gouge got replaced by volcanic

[marble hemlock]

yeah

but also

mobs you wanna gouge

got nerfed pretty hard

[vestal wren]

isn't outlaw quite close in st sims?

[marble hemlock]

idk

but it cant compete with assa or sub who can both hold their CDs for short st fights

killing a general in 30sec and needing high ST for it

outlaw wont be able to compete

not consistently anyway

[vestal wren]

oh thats a good point

[marble hemlock]

even if it was 1min or so

at the end of the day, outlaw ST is too hit and miss due to SS rng

[vestal wren]

you can def. use your cooldowns more strategic on sub/sin

[marble hemlock]

so its not that consistent

its not as bad as pride to have longer general fights

where longer fight = group wipes

[vestal wren]

i did hear people start to skip some of the defensive generals

[marble hemlock]

but its still fairly drastic timeloss, and assa doesnt care about vendetta timings. even if the general is before a boss, it just means you get vendetta back on the boss during execute

yeah, it depends a bit on the last boss

you can usually run the 50% movespeed slow on most bosses

[soft shale]

yea the movespeed and phys guy sometimes i've already seen

[vestal wren]

did you play sub too or not appealing to you rn?

[marble hemlock]

phys guy can be done on some bosses, but not all of them

i dont think ill even try sub, unless the funnel is gonna become relevant

[soft shale]

yea some bosses its too hard but the funniest shit is the slow does not affect intermissions

like stradama or devos

sub was only really good if the tank pulled packs into mini bosses/bosses for me

otherwise pug life is rough as f

[marble hemlock]

playing sub aoe "rotation" just makes me wanna shoot myself with a poisoned noose where the water is deepest

[grizzled orbit]

I remember towards the end of Ny you were so hyped for sub, Sel. Lol

[vestal wren]

funny actually

i remember a discussion that you would like fok to have the same cp generaton

[marble hemlock]

yeah

and then i played it

early SL

[soft shale]

ahaha

[marble hemlock]

and i specced to the spec i despised even more

i mean

id like consistency with fok cp gen, that isnt reliant on crit

[vestal wren]

sin becomes close to sub in aoe rotation if cp generation is like with storm fixed

[marble hemlock]

even if fok would give 5cp every cast, it would still be much more involved due to target selection mattering and needing to swap targets and use different finishers

the ss>bp>repeat is just dull

[vestal wren]

sub just now drops rupture or even snd with enough targets due to how black powder scales with targets

[marble hemlock]

i quite liked early bfa sub for example, where youd ss+evis funnel during dance, and then ss+nightblade multidot outside of it to recharge dance charges while giving all targets NB debuff for more sectec damage during dance

[vestal wren]

it just becomes inefficient to maintain both with 6+ targets

i am baised, i rly liked legion dfa version

[marble hemlock]

the change id like for fok is still the same

[vestal wren]

i didn't like bfa sin with the fok spam nonesense

[marble hemlock]

make fok grant extra CP when hitting a target that has rupture or garrote active

[vestal wren]

emphasizing on bleeds seems like a nice concept

[marble hemlock]

would give it more consistent cp gen in low-target

i always wanted them to combine scent of blood and echoing blades, to not proc an echo on crit, but on each target you hit that has rupture active

one of the main issues i have with sealfate based CP gen on fok, is that it is capped on 8targets, and as such the critrate requirement for consistent cp gen on aoe is always the same, even when fighting 50 enemies. which seems dumb

always felt like an oversight to me when they made assa cap at 8targets instead of being uncapped like it originally was

[vestal wren]

blizz could just get rid of the target caps

and then balance if sth is rly to big of a outliner

[marble hemlock]

it wasnt though

it was really good 😄

echoing blades just happened to be better and filled the same purpose

id just like more finisher-based desing for assa

but once more most of our rental powers and legendaries are designed around builders, not finishers

and its annoying

[limber lion]

double dose

shrouded suffo

[marble hemlock]

echoing blades

poisoned katar

maim mangle

doomblade

[hollow escarp]

maim

[limber lion]

everything

[marble hemlock]

tiny toxic blade

[spice spire]

Db at least effects our finishers

[vestal wren]

is there a good combination for pk?

it seems just not very strong

[soft shale]

katar kind of crutches on aoe

[hollow escarp]

if you have triple potency and nothing to fill

[soft shale]

but nothing amaing

i mean if you're not necro for m+ you run out of conduits fast

like on venth you would go lashing+lethal poisons

then the next ones are ugh

[vestal wren]

the covenant conduits look quite decent in dungeon slice

[marble hemlock]

nah, its just bad

if the fok crit would scale with the conduit level

it would be solid

but fok damage is so minor

that its essentially just like the MG conduit for outlaw

pure aoe value and still worse in aoe

for m+ you just run SF+WPS, and if oyu get a third potency, LP

but WPS is too valuable this season with generals and more st focus

[silent fossil]

i still need 1 blood, 1 frost, and 1 uh from raid. is the chance greater than 0 to complete my uh set this week?

[limber lion]

Definitely is

In fact I'm sure you'll get it

[subtle tundra]

i still need all 3 unholy 🙂

🙂

[silent fossil]

finna get benched because i do no dps

[subtle tundra]

🙂

🙂

[subtle tundra]

the other rogue in my guild sims 1k more than me 🙂

🙂

not salty

[limber lion]

I'm guessing you haven't played too too much

[silent fossil]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/oBKrePfWByAKo5g4gzYRZE

[subtle tundra]

i did

[limber lion]

because that's super unlikely if you've cleared every week

[silent fossil]

[subtle tundra]

im 4/10 m

i cleared every week, only missed a single boss one week cause i was on vacation

[marble hemlock]

cough

[hollow escarp]

you have 2 unholy Seli

[marble hemlock]

we have a hunter with 1

[hollow escarp]

but not looting any in 3 weeks is kinda sus

[marble hemlock]

who has 5shards total

[hollow escarp]

oof

[marble hemlock]

all of them not giving DPS benefits

[subtle tundra]

i literally have 3 bloods, 2 frosts

[marble hemlock]

well, blood set is almost as good as unholy

[odd heath]

This system is so bad lol

[marble hemlock]

and has defensive benefits

[hollow escarp]

and other ungrateful people just delete them

[odd heath]

I got lucky with 8 shards last week, and then the last shard on reset day

[subtle tundra]

yea but why invest into something thats gonna be worse when i get the other

especially when i cant farm embers

[marble hemlock]

cause "worse" is in the eye of the beholder

[grizzled orbit]

are there any rotational differences playing Blindside/DS vs EP/Vigor?

[limber lion]

We can all agree that the system is really dumb

[subtle tundra]

for sure

[hollow escarp]

but we will forget in 1 month when everybody will have all gems

[tawny plover]

Biggest issue with this system is that shards are lottable 1x per boss per week no matter what difficulty, so u cant really farm em by clearing differently difficulties

[subtle tundra]

so i have to wait almost 2 months to compete

with the other people

[odd heath]

What are you guys getting for m+ anima powers normally? As assassination

[hollow escarp]

brand + necrotic

[limber lion]

Necro Blade, Brand, Shield, Fungus

[hollow escarp]

not sure if it's the best

[odd heath]

Hmmmm

I'm trying the axe some times and it does decent dmg

But don't know if it is better than brand

[gusty mirage]

Axe is kinda solid additional execute damage, but that’s about it

[odd heath]

Ye..

[limber lion]

JPC said that he likes the bolster one, but I'm not too sold on it.

[odd heath]

Bolster on pf right

For last 2 bosses

Might be good, but very niche

[limber lion]

Yeh, for sure has its niche uses

[gusty mirage]

Yeah it’s good on certain bosses (last boss mists is pretty good too)

[marble hemlock]

theres some nice bolster dungeons but overall it aint worth

[gusty mirage]

It’s a neat idea, just kinda meh overall

[marble hemlock]

and the crit is just too damn great honestly :p

[odd heath]

Good thing is that assassin is pumping on m+

[limber lion]

Brand just feels good

[hollow escarp]

is volcanic the best for ranged? because I always have people in my group taking it

[marble hemlock]

yeah

volcanic seems much better for ranged

than for melee

idk why

[odd heath]

2 volcanic is like perma cc for groups

[marble hemlock]

i think its like actual volcanic, where you cant actually proc it right in melee range

so it tends to miss a lot more as melee

but thats just from my admittedly very limited tests with it

whenever i was the only one taking it, i barely felt the impact

[odd heath]

I tested it sometimes also, but didn't find it very reliable

[marble hemlock]

when a ranged took it, it was massive disrupts

[gusty mirage]

Yea 2 ranged taking volcanic in mists negates everything in the maze. It’s super nice for fort weeks

[odd heath]

Ye

[marble hemlock]

its just so dumb tho

idk

i really dont like it

[hollow escarp]

it will enable full ranged dps meta

[marble hemlock]

something that used to require solid disrupts and coordination

is now just kinda automated

and when you get unlucky procs, what then

you just wipe or what

or still cover every possible cast with one

and then its just frustrating to play to see a cast cast 4times but you never have to actually interrupt it

[gusty mirage]

From personal experience, you most likely wipe

[soft shale]

bolster is really good on pf and mists

because boss have adds

kinda decent in top too

but other dungeons its meh

[thorny pond]

good morning chads

[gusty mirage]

you're back to a red name?

[thorny pond]

I can't fight the ferals in my raid

[strange python]

Guys, I got the Cowl of Haunting Precognition helmet with the unholy socket but the only shard I have is the Leech + 30 one, is it okay to put it in or will this cause any problems?

[thorny pond]

Dom sockets can go in any

You just need the helm for the unholy bonus

[strange python]

Ah great, asked because I don't want to look like an idiot in the raid haha, you know the old stories when wow noobs for example wear cloth on a warrior or something 😄

[thorny pond]

Nah. You need the chest for blood 3 piece, and shoulders for frost

[limber lion]

You just need 2500 Stygia to buy the chisel

so you can take it out later

[mental trout]

youre good, just grab the chisel for when you need to take it out, dont want to be like one of them dummies who destroyed it! lol

[limber lion]

because you don't want to use the leech one in the future

[strange python]

Yeah bought it

[limber lion]

Okay, then you're fine

[strange python]

Thanks all 👍

[strange python]

wasn't there one guy in Echo who destroyed it? 😄

[golden prairie]

whats the general rotation for m+? spread empovered garrote/rapture and crimson tempest on top of it?

[thorny pond]

P much

Use envenom to maintain SnD

[strange python]

that's how I do it

[golden prairie]

I wonder if I can pump more then my outlul setup

[strange python]

don't forget to crimson tempest on the boss too

[verbal mantle]

you can use that too if you want

https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/domination-socket-helper

can prevent some unfortunate events 😄

[strange python]

Damn, there's an addon for everything lol

[verbal mantle]

yes sir

[gusty mirage]

the only unfortunate event here is that I can't grab dinner with you anytime I want

[verbal mantle]

true

[mental trout]

lmao really!? imagine if they lost WF bc of it lol...

[hollow escarp]

Naowh did it

but after prog

[plain thistle]

who would ever do that, must be stupid

[thorny pond]

I am King Stupid

2 blood gems

[plain thistle]

I deleted 2 rank2 frost shard

already have it back, but lost 10 stygian ember

[thorny pond]

I got hype with 2 back to back UH shards for my 3 set

so I just overwrote my bloods

[fallen arch]

Def king stupid

Can you get new drops then or?

[thorny pond]

Ye

already replaced them

[narrow minnow]

can you not item restore the shards?

[thorny pond]

Nope

I can't delete gray items in the mail and have to type delete for most useless items

but shards you can yolo

[narrow minnow]

they make these stupidly important items and you can just drop them on the ground or shatter them with no recourse?

what is this? some korean mmo?

[lavish lichen]

Shards are legit indestructible if you try to delete from bags

Then you go to slot one in and its gone

[waxen thunder]

!oil

[prisma monolith]

Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ

[reef isle]

should i sync fusion amplifier with vendetta?

or just use the trinket on cd?

[plain thistle]

does not matter

vendetta works with a whitelist, which means it doesnt buff trinkets

[reef isle]

ah

ty

[plain thistle]

only auto attacks and our abilities

[reef isle]

and the trinket is procing with melee atk?

oki

thanks!

so i guess i should just use it on cd

[plain thistle]

yes, just use on CD

[alpine latch]

Oh boys.. I'm 100% guaranteed to have a full set this week. LETS GO

Even with the worst luck ever, I get 1 shard from Sylv

Hopefully hitting an 8k sim this week, and when I loot a Phial from my Great Vault here in an hour, it's going to be even higher.

[limber lion]

Good luck!

[indigo ginkgo]

every set is a dps increase at this point ahahah

[granite fjord]

Hey all, I downloaded the add on “max dps” and I’ve noticed that a lot of the time it is wanting me to use a finisher with only 4 out of 5 combo points. (I’m using vigor, not deeper strat). My question is, should I try following the add on? Does anyone else use it?

[hollow escarp]

not sure about the addon, but it is correct to finish at 4 combo points if you are running vigor

as casting a mutilate at 4 cp will waste at least 1 combo point

[granite fjord]

Awesome, I’ll give it a shot tonight during raid 🙂 thanks @hollow escarp

[vestal wren]

i only know hekili and hero-rotation

is maxdps configurable?

[granite fjord]

It might be, I haven’t really used it much other than in my heroic calling dungeon.

[hollow escarp]

if you want to use and addon like that, I would recommend hero-rotation, it's managed by one of the shadows and it might be more reliable when it comes to rogue rotation

[granite fjord]

Is it on Curseforge?

[hollow escarp]

yes

[granite fjord]

I will download it next login then.

[high berry]

Is hero-rotation just for rogues or other classes as well ?

[marsh yacht]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[strange python]

I think I wouldn't recommend using such rotation addons, just go to icy-veins, look up the openers and the rest is just keeping the dots up basically. With those addons you focus too much on it and lose focus on important thing is in the dungeon/raid

[vital tapir]

it's for everyone but just don't use those

just check out guides

rotation helpers are meh in the best case scenario

and really bad in others

[vestal wren]

i think i am a fan of hekili

even tho i think the rotation might need to be configured

[winged basin]

Yo imma link logs tonight, cause I feel like I’m falling tf off and I can’t tell if it’s gear or if I’m a shitter

[narrow ravine]

why not both?!

[vestal wren]

hero-rotation is the more accurate one but the presentation of hekili is rly nice

also you can modify hekili without lua knowledge

[winged basin]

🙂

[narrow ravine]

once we accept we are all undergeared shitters, we can then grow, once a week after you check the vaults

[winged basin]

pls no more, my heart can only take so much I’ve gotten 2 back to back doggie vaults

[narrow ravine]

my heroic raid ive got a total of 2 drops, both the same exact item

gave one away

[copper spoke]

Goodluck on your vaults everyone!

[narrow ravine]

busted through 11 m+ last week, hopefully something is decent

[deft wagon]

Stupid question maybe, but how come literally 99% of top 10 logs on every boss is with doomblade, even venthyr rogues

I understood it like obe simmed better ST aswell

[high berry]

@narrow ravine same here and both times have been the same necklace. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[ornate dawn]

Big Envenoms go Brrrrrrrrr

[hollow escarp]

the sims in pins are for high ilvl profiles, even there you can see a small gap

for me doomblade simmed better as venthyr

with around 235 ilvl

[strange python]

let me guess, Halls of Attonement?

[high berry]

@strange python mine was from the heroic raid. I only get cloaks in my mythic +. Although a nice warrior gave me a 236 phial from +12 Plaguefall last night.

[bleak sun]

When is NA reset ?

[narrow minnow]

half an hour then an hour of maintenance

[strange python]

Phial can I have it? I got a low one 226

[high berry]

@strange python I think I will keep it since I was using a 220. 😀

[wide ridge]

phial on vault today

[spice spire]

[deft wagon]

literally my first vault

https://i.imgur.com/N6cEDlN.png

[south belfry]

Ofc

[limber lion]

Grats!

[copper spoke]

Damn

[high berry]

Grats

[spice spire]

We love to see our rogue brethren secure the bag

Grats king

[deft wagon]

Thank you haha

Yeah ok now doomblade 262 sims almost 100 dps better than obe 262, hmm

[arctic hare]

I got shoulders......

I finally got shoulders.......

[visual prairie]

i actually got a phial drop last week, so it will now definitely be in my vault

[arctic hare]

lol, nice

[timid talon]

peak cringe

[ornate dawn]

Get phial drop, boost it up with valor, get 252 in vault - this is the way

[idle star]

woot got sylv dagger in vault

[limber lion]

Grats

Big boys right here

[gentle gyro]

i mean, the boots aren't that bad

[alpine latch]

I got 2 items I already have and a cloak option - and my m+ slots were all Dom socket slots

[gentle gyro]

but yeah rest is cringe

[alpine latch]

I got 72g from my vault ... woohoo

[ornate dawn]

stygia crew

[limber lion]

bis pants

[slim siren]

edge of night is really good for us right? or is it only for sin?

[timid talon]

I have 252 haste/verse pants atm lol

and a 252 socketed neck

[limber lion]

Welp

[timid talon]

It's a rough one

[limber lion]

Asking if it's good for sin in the sin chat

or only for sin

Yes, it's good for us

[ashen fulcrum]

233 edge of night in the offhand if mainhand has higher DPS?

[timid talon]

Im taking the flayedwing trinket since my fusion amp is only 226 lol

[limber lion]

It's good for all specs.

[limber lion]

Yes

[ashen fulcrum]

tyvm

[limber lion]

Flayedwing is really bad

[slim siren]

oh okay cool cause just got one from my vault im hyped

[timid talon]

yeah I know, but now I can at least trade 252's

better than taking the token

[limber lion]

Yup

[timid talon]

also 😐

[gentle gyro]

and at 252 is likely is still better than most others at 226

[merry mountain]

I think I need to take the shoulders... especially since I still need one frost shard so I'm rocking Blood Link on my chest

[limber lion]

Yes, chest is a dom socket item anyways

[gentle gyro]

you never ever take the chest here

[limber lion]

Can't take non-dom items from m+

[ornate dawn]

I want my vault now not tomorrow why you guys gotta make me feel bad man

[gentle gyro]

ehhhhh, you could, potentially

I'm fairly sure once you have the set you want down the line, you will / can replace dom socket slots with higher ilvl pieces

[merry mountain]

IDK. if you get to the point where you have all 252 items from M+ vs 239 domination gear... I haven't done the sims to see how that works out

[ornate dawn]

Isnt that a ridiculous position to be in

[merry mountain]

it's gonna happen for those of us that don't do Mythic raid

[visual prairie]

not really. a lot of us aren't in great raiding guilds to get 252 dom gear but get m+ gear every week

[ornate dawn]

I just mean the dom socket bs in general, either give M+ peices dom sockets or give us a way to add them, seems to be overly complicated as per usual

[gentle gyro]

i am, but I never get to bring my rogue

[visual prairie]

oh. yeah, i see

[gentle gyro]

dom sockets themselves are insanely dumb

and their distribution as well

cloth has TWO socket pieces from the last two bosses

giving them higher ilvl by default

[ornate dawn]

If they had any foresight or any big brains left, they could have even made it thematically incorporated by having the runecarver empower you gear and make him more than just a legendary bot

Rather than yolo rng

[merry mountain]

the runecaver is just a shadow of what he was in 9.0.5

[visual prairie]

heyo

spoilers

[ornate dawn]

Like put that bitch to work tho you know, stamp me some sockets

pick if its unholoy or blood or whatever, that would be cool asF

[barren vessel]

[spice spire]

We take these ws

[gentle gyro]

[quasi ledge]

But we also have 2 dom pieces from last 2 bosses @gentle gyro :p

[gentle gyro]

yes but only one per boss

not two

[limber lion]

A lot of massive gamers here today, sheeeesh!

[paper cairn]

why you do this to me game

[ornate dawn]

Doing 10x15's sounds like absolute torture to me

[idle star]

i was offered a 252 belt

yeh screw doing that many M+... i have a life

if i had no life outside of wow i would do 10 x 15's

[gentle gyro]

run your own key

[harsh anchor]

So do I but I manage my time efficiently so I can do 15 or more keys :^)

[dull cloak]

how can you not enjoy 10 keys per week

[gentle gyro]

there, 10x15 easily doable

[dark crag]

Since first 4 bosses got nice loot, i have a 252 dagger and a dropped phial, i stop after 4 m+

[gentle gyro]

or if you enjoy pushing keys

and once you have mostly what you need, you may play less keys

not to defend this casino we have as a vault

but we gotta make do with what we have

[dark crag]

All my good m+ vault loot was on the first slot

[terse talon]

Vault is addictive

[ornate dawn]

I feel like I should get an extra choice just from carrying my guilds dps these past few weeks right ?

[lyric cave]

so dashing scoundrel is the way to go now

[limber lion]

Definitely not

It's only good for the frost set, but the frost set is very buggy, oversims and only works on ST

sooooooooo

Not worth

Just stick to Doomblade/Obedience and Unholy

[timid talon]

it sims like 50 dps ahead of doom atm for me but

real world i dont think it'll be that good

[thorny nest]

Do you guys think 252 m+ boots would beat out 239 heroic boots with a socket(that doesn't complete your set)? crit/haste boots vs heroic KT neck with a socket are my choices

[sudden canyon]

morning shit done

time to hit this box

[lyric dock]

Almost spent Valor upgrading my 236 sg totem. Box saved by pick 3 big oof otherwise

[thorny nest]

Asking cause idk how to disable shard bonuses in topgear

[red plaza]

windows + shift + s my dude XD

[lyric dock]

That photo sent by my wife who opened it for me cause I'm at work haha

[red plaza]

big brain. grats!

[cerulean nest]

having a tough time deciding

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/qHovifrh2c7cH7cn7JcqSu

taking one of the trinkets would be way nicer than the belt, but as soon as I get a phial its gonna be replaced anyway..

[lost mist]

fucking iqd, fucking vers/mastery shoulders

[red plaza]

shoulders is off the first boss too

[fallow glacier]

Could say the same with a belt though, it’s pretty shit stats

[winged basin]

Which is zzz easy to kill and loot

[cerulean nest]

yeah. guess ill go decanter

[manic pebble]

I don't understand

why this sim better https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pUikaodZ7KUkCGet7zySaP

than this https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pEgbBSACLbXWw4W4jwzvwo

[red plaza]

anybody knows how this works? can you just spam the tea until you get the stat you want? Theotar simming higher for sin at 54 renown atm

[sudden canyon]

dogshit

all dogshit

[limber lion]

No, you just use it once and it gives you a stat boost for 4 hours

Can't spam it.

1 hour cooldown

[red plaza]

gotcha thanks

[sudden canyon]

no dom pieces. no weapon. no trinket. shit week

gg

[gentle gyro]

makes absolutely no sense

[wind dune]

feels so bad my only options are 252 shoulders or gloves only to replace either or the second i get a domination socket. What a terrible system

[manic pebble]

[silk wraith]

@manic pebble

[gentle gyro]

unless the formula has changed over the last 6 days

[manic pebble]

oh I feel dumb now, thank you!

[gentle gyro]

ohhhhhhh @manic pebble

i see why

[wide ridge]

garbage ass vault

[gentle gyro]

y'all are givin me hope that I get sth good tomorrow

if there is no good loot in yours, it must be in mine

that's how it works

[ancient peak]

yo offhand weapon damage doesnt mean a whole lot right?

so it would make sense for a sim to tell me that a weapon 3 ilvls lower in the offhand with better secondaries is slightly more damage?

[fallow glacier]

Yes, offhand damage is inconsequential

[wide ridge]

I cna either pick IQD for +16dps increase or a 252 shoulder that i'll replace when i get a domination socket one

boooo

[cursive silo]

You want the sylv dagger anyway no?

[mossy mulch]

1 question bros

2 dagger 252 or 2 edge of night?

[red plaza]

[wide ridge]

two 259 edge of nights

[mossy mulch]

hahah

In simulations 2 daggers 252 sims 0.3% more than edge of night

[fallow glacier]

Sylvanas dagger will always be better in oh

Main hand is weapon dps mostly

[manic haven]

Is titanic occular a bit of sim bait? Anyone know what the uptime is for it?

[ancient peak]

it has like 95%+ uptime

on most bosses

[lost dock]

30% crit or 28% haste ? Or 26% both ? I can’t decide lol. I like them both being up there, but haste just always feels better

[cursive silo]

Sim

[dull cloak]

damn can u feel the difference of 2% haste

[quasi scroll]

if vault offers a 3rd domination socket then that's the play?

[manic haven]

Think it's worth rocking over a 246 Shadowgrasp?

[red plaza]

depends on what the 3rd is and how far progressed your guild is

[quasi scroll]

or just sim it on stats?

[red plaza]

and if you're looking for short term gains or long term

[quasi scroll]

we've only done 3 heroic

[ancient peak]

shadowgrasp kinda slaps, not sure how strong 252 occular is though

[quasi scroll]

but

even just on ilvl it's a good upg

[knotty heron]

May sound dumb... but, does Focus Magic proc with Poison Ticks? It's considered "magic" damage, right? Theoretically could a mage focus magic us to get more benefit off of Dashing Scoundrel/Winds of Winter dom shaards?

[merry mountain]

everyone getting those shoulders today

[red plaza]

for that vault yea, get the shoulders

[quasi scroll]

I don't have 3 decent gems of any type but even on stats it's good

then I can get a 230 crafted for some other dumpy slot

[wide ridge]

you could wait for your heroic tarragrue kill just in case you get shoulders there

unless your guild is struggling there

[quasi scroll]

true

tarra is usually not much trouble but we have like 5 new people every week so always a wildcard

[wide ridge]

I'm sure i'll get my shoulders from heroic KT this week, for sure

[merry mountain]

TBH if you get the shoulders on tarragrue it can be a nice funnel for a friend

[quasi scroll]

the 252 cloak would be nice except that's my legendary

[merry mountain]

I'm already regretting not taking my 252 chest from my vault... but the shoulders gave me a 150dps+ upgrade when socketed, so I shouldn't over think this.

I'm just remembering that these dom sockets aren't useful in M+

[fallen arch]

F on the 242 phial

[quasi scroll]

except

[fallen arch]

Oh wow

Gamer

And here I am on run 26 PF

[quasi scroll]

doesn't quite make up for having a 197 dagger for all of 9.0

[fallen arch]

With 0 phials

[quasi scroll]

yeah last week was 252 phial

today 242

just to mock

[tiny bramble]

is it worth going Theotar this week over Nadjia just for party favors?

[quasi scroll]

meanwhile my paladin is still with a 210 Scale from DOS6 in week 2 of 9.0

[lost dock]

Haven’t seen a phial drop or vault in 7 months so idk lol. Daggers drop like candy for me though.

[quasi scroll]

well with my luck they'll nerf it now that I got it

"oh it's doing 10% of this guy's damage, that can't be..."

"we must fix this"

[hollow talon]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4oioxsgqfyak5HFWWnsW9a

unholy set is good confirmed

[short token]

is the shadowgrasp totem legit? or sim bait?

[gentle gyro]

it's legit

[short token]

on single target bosses in raid?

[gentle gyro]

moreso if you can get something to die in it

[short token]

just use on cooldown?

[gentle gyro]

cannot really speak for st

[short token]

it's simming high for single target, is there anyone that uses it in raid that can speak to it?

preferably mythic

[gentle gyro]

tbh there are enough fights with adds to justify it

[quasi scroll]

Is it worth trying to cheese the "if mob dies the CD reduces" thing?

[short token]

@gentle gyro true but i have a couple options i'm considering from vault...i just want to make sure it's as advertised on single target as it is simming

[gentle gyro]

hey hey look over here, someone with actual choices in the vault

[timid talon]

Its hasted, its a great trinket

[short token]

but something has to die to be hasted, a raid boss isn't dying

[timid talon]

thats not what hasted means

affected by haste

[short token]

oh the shadow drain

[timid talon]

Id take it, you wont replace it if you're not doing guardian on mythic this week

[short token]

so only the guardian trinket is better @ 252?

[timid talon]

fusion amp is better at the same ilvl or slightly below but since its 239 vs 252

totem would be better

[short token]

wow...

jesus i was totally bummed

now i'm happy

[timid talon]

totem is giga powerful for raid

[mint narwhal]

hey guys quick question . do we wanna use Theotar this week for raid , since we can unlock its last row and not the case with Nadja ? .

[austere gorge]

which is better legendary? obedience or Scoundrel??

[quasi scroll]

Doomblade simmed better for dungeon slice than Zoldyck... that sound right?

[austere gorge]

i thought Obedience is good for raid now mostly single target?

[quasi scroll]

there's a new pin looks like

about obedience

[austere gorge]

so meaning no need for me to change my doomblade legendary then ?

just upgrade to 249+

[olive peak]

flag conduit says it lashes 4 aditional times

i dont see that on details tho

[austere gorge]

yah, saw in pinned message too that Scoundrel is better with frost shards?

anyway TLDR Stands for ?

[wild bone]

too long didnt read

[quasi scroll]

"the short version"

[ashen fulcrum]

how worth is a second edge of night?

[vestal wren]

it depends on the itemlevel of the dagger

assassination benefits less than e.g. #subtlety from the effect, this makes it a good but not a extremely outstanding choice

[ashen fulcrum]

word I just got my first normal one

so 252 MH and night in offhand

[vestal wren]

likely yes, i would consider simming it

[austere gorge]

so if i got 252 / 233 dagger.. which legendary should i got for sin ?

[warm fiber]

got 2 252 daggers now, simmed one against a heroic edge of night. is it still worth it to try to get an edge of night if it sims lower anyway?

[ashen fulcrum]

thank you

[vestal wren]

i don't think that your dagger itemlevel affects your legendary choice

[hollow talon]

Hello fellow unholy set gamers, is it worth tracking the proc for our rotation or not really worth changing stuff for it

[vestal wren]

ts only worth to get one if it is a dps upgrade

[warm fiber]

thanks, i thought that an edge of night OH would sim higher, but i guess i thought wrong

[vestal wren]

if you play subtlety too you could sim for it

[timid talon]

Nah, just pretend its not even there and its free damage

[winged basin]

Zzzzzz swapping to full crit frost scoundrel sounds unappealing, does sub stay unholy @vestal wren

[warm fiber]

i didn't sim for sub yet, ill try that

[vestal wren]

probably not especially on lower set levels. I think whispyr looked into it and didn't find a win.
Its possible that there are some cases of optimization for all 3 specs but so far none i am aware of

[vestal wren]

all 3 will stay unholy for now. Its not adviced to go frost before its fixed

[hollow talon]

I just upgraded my unholy set to rank 4 I'm full sending

[vestal wren]

i don't think frost is currently a big topic given how it requires higher gear levels to be relevant

[austere gorge]

simming legendary supported by simbot ?

[vestal wren]

besides the issues that needs to be fixed before considering it

[vestal wren]

yes raidbots supports simming all legendary items, there is a option for it in top gear

[austere gorge]

ok noted thanks

[indigo mulch]

So wait how high are we talking about? 😮

250+?

I was actually somewhat happy cause i have all the blood/frost but no unholy gems so far 😄

[vestal wren]

problem is frost seems to do less damage as its supposed to do

so even if it sims good its not a good choice

so for now its considered not worth it

[indigo mulch]

So the sims are wrongz? 😮

[vestal wren]

yes

[indigo mulch]

I see.

[vestal wren]

it oversims because the bug/issues are not in the sim yet

best case would be for blizz to fix it

but i think they should fix the necro bug first it seems rly annoying

[frosty gyro]

Did they nerf the dagger or does it just sim at 100% boss HP so only 1 stack?

[vestal wren]

i don't think anything changed about the dagger

[cursive silo]

2.5% is good lol

[frosty gyro]

I mean the simcraft example sim has it at 6%

At 2.5 it's worse than another item in vault

[cursive silo]

????

[vestal wren]

did you sim it in offhand too?

[frosty gyro]

That is in offhand

MH is a 252

[warm fiber]

so when i simmed for assass OH H edge of night was +28 dps. Sub sim was dpsupgrade for both Normal and Heroic versions. i just messed up the sim the first time. for sub the N version was +95 and H was +192 in offhand. thanks for the help!

[sand sigil]

offhand like 200+ dps for me 😔

[frosty gyro]

I feel like it has to not be simming execute

[cursive silo]

It dors

[vestal wren]

did you try assassinaiton in m+ james, i wonder how well it ranks up vs. the other 2 options

[cursive silo]

Does

[frosty gyro]

Like look at the average damage in my sim vs the example sim on simcraft

[regal dirge]

if im kyriam what are the better coduits?

[cursive silo]

Example sim on simc is shit 99% of the time

Dont compare to that

[limber lion]

Eh

They use our profiles

They're fine

[sick cairn]

do we still go heimir this week?

any necro rogues here?

[bleak sky]

theotar simming better than nadja

[bleak sky]

Cev is necro afaik

[cobalt pelican]

you can liderally see boss hp in the report

regular sims are linear health loss

[iron orchid]

I mean, the example profile has double 259 sylv daggers, which is bis, and will surely end up doing more damage than your personal setup

[obtuse robin]

xd

[limber lion]

Emeni is probably better this week with Renown 54, but you should sim it.

[sick cairn]

thanks cev

[limber lion]

No worries.

[frosty gyro]

@iron orchid oh does it stack?

[sick cairn]

also if we are using pustules

[limber lion]

You use Fleshcraft on CD and cancel it instantly by the way

[sick cairn]

when do we fleshcraft

OH

okay

[bleak sky]

Do any of you know how exactly theotar's tea work?

[sick cairn]

so like move the moment i press it?

thats how it works cev?

[limber lion]

Actually, let me make sure

[upbeat needle]

why the hell am I simming higher with a blood frost and unholy shard rather than chaos bane

[iron orchid]

Something stacks, but I can't remember if its damage, proc rate or both

[upbeat needle]

send help pls

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/TsNsYA5QeQiLVQ58PiJb4

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/vE8wJJKqQpTn1NoQ7zWFjd

[fleet anchor]

Unless you got a Mythic Sylvanas dagger in your fault, I'm not sure why you'd compare to the default profiles

[sick cairn]

u didnt get chaos bane here

its just 2 unholiez

[fleet anchor]

The default profile also has two daggers and the damage is combined

[obtuse robin]

cuz mf's r dumb

sorry

[limber lion]

@fleet anchor Do we fully channel Fleshcraft with Pustules or cancel

[upbeat needle]

wait what the hell why didn't it throw my other one in

sec

[bleak sky]

I don't know, it happens with me as well.

I ask raidbots to sim all the possible shards and it just ignores me lmao

[fleet anchor]

You would want to full channel for that one iirc

Solvent you can cancel early if you want

[frosty gyro]

@fleet anchor the problem is this is my vault, and the dagger sims the lowest here 🤔 I was expecting it to be a lot higher

[limber lion]

Ah right, there we go

[bleak sky]

NUT PHIAL

[upbeat needle]

phial phial phial phial

phialllllllllllllllll

grab it before I come steal it from you

[ruby gust]

Can anyone tell me how I upgrade my lashing scars?

[frosty gyro]

Phial does sim the highest yeah

[ruby gust]

Only drops from world bosses right?