assassination

[velvet nacelle]

and since it's all one hit, whether it's 1cp or 5, i wanted something to instantly see if i fucked it up so i can try to adjust for the next one

i'm finding that a lot of assassination is small adjustments

i took a long break from 9.0 to 9.1 and when i came back, without really thinking about it, i was "rushing" the playstyle, so not pooling to take advantage of envenom/EP buffs

wasn't til i posted a bad log from this week that someone pointed it out, it was like one of those small things i had internalized without really thinking about it before

[gentle gyro]

i will never learn the opener for MA instead of Subterfuge, so we all have our battles

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[quasi ledge]

Playing Assass all through release until the buffs got me used to not pressing anything for extended periods

[velvet nacelle]

i'm generally good at adjusting my buttons

and i write a lot of weak auras to encourage good play

like my weak auras for rupture/garrote highlight when they're in pandemic, etc.

nothing crazy

[gentle gyro]

would it generally be worth delaying shiv to re-apply garrote / rupture when they are about to run out?

I'd assume so, but who knows

[velvet nacelle]

but some things i think were just baseline assumptions in my head that i never really put in a weak aura or ui indicator

you should never delay shiv

things should be in place before shiv comes off cd

[gentle gyro]

even if the very first thing in the shiv window would be pressing rupture?

yeah alright that's another way, sure

[velvet nacelle]

if you need to rupture in a shiv window it's likely that you misplayed beforehand

when that happens i'd reapply rupture and probably curse myself out for getting into that situation

these past two weeks there's been a lot of self-cursing

[quasi ledge]

Just press Shiv, it's OK to reapply during but that's something that generally happenes because of timing or planning ahead a little more and refreshing instantly in pandemic if Shiv is about to come off CD

[velvet nacelle]

general rule of thumb is that shiv should be fired as closed to cooldown as possible

since it's cd is so short, even delaying it a few seconds every cast will likely mean you miss more than one cast in a fight

[gentle gyro]

ye ik, was just wondering. but it's correct that the question shouldn't come up in the first place

[velvet nacelle]

delaying longer stuff like vendetta/vanish is ok as long as you KNOW you aren't going to miss a cast because of it in the fight

i'm thinking of doing the unthinkable and dusting off outlaw for m+

after 2 full expansions of outlaw in dungeons i took a break in 9.0 and did mostly assassination

[odd hazel]

No

It SHOULD be on cd

Not as close to

Just slam it

[quasi ledge]

I got double slappy boys from Ra-den at the end of BfA so I gave Outlaw another go after trying at the start of BfA. I popped CDs with the extra proc buff and slammed 8-9 Sinister Strikes into the boss without a proc so I just hearthstoned out and never went back

[velvet nacelle]

@odd hazel i mean, boss mechanics/intermissions?

i'm being pedantic, ignore me

outlaw feels amazing sometimes and just terrible other times

but it's largely unchanged since legion it feels like

i mean the rtb change this expansion was a hugely welcome change

but i feel like dispatch is a wet noodle now anyways

[gentle gyro]

i was thinking the same

now that we have an all-around legendary

[velvet nacelle]

i still haven't made obedience

the prices are still ridiculous

[gentle gyro]

[odd hazel]

You don’t tell people to use things based on mechanics

That should be a no brainer you don’t use something like that

[velvet nacelle]

@odd hazel i already called myself out, we can move on

[odd hazel]

A 235 was 10k on my realm

[gentle gyro]

backs are dirt cheap

especially if you know someone that can actually make them, just give them mats and some pocket money

[velvet nacelle]

i think people in the guild were working on it

so maybe now-ish or soon i can get it done in guild

[odd heath]

I got my 262 cloak for mats +10k tip.. 235 cloak was another 10k.. it is really cheap if you search for people that craft, and don't buy directly from the AH

[odd hazel]

Even the AH Is cheap

A 235 is 10k or around there on my server

Higher then that? Oof I think like 160k

[velvet nacelle]

235s were 25k last i looked on my server

that was last week so probably cheaper now

[odd heath]

R5 is 200k and r6 120k here right now

R6 probably getting reset tomorrow

[odd hazel]

R6 being cheaper

[velvet nacelle]

25k isn't CRAZY but it's hard in my mind to justify when they were like 10k before the patch

[odd heath]

Ye.. r6 wasn't doable yet tho..

[velvet nacelle]

my own fault for not grabbing one then

how is obedience for outlaw, i'm assuming v good, lemme go peek at their pins

yuck, looks like i'm still gonna wanna upgrade my celerity

[stiff thicket]

Hello everyone 🙂 ! Does anyone know how i can keep an eye on "Banshee's blight" thanks to a weak aura please ? I tried to create one but it doesn't work

[velvet nacelle]

i haven't done past guardian yet, but the WAs in https://wago.io/slraid2 have been all i've needed so far

[stiff thicket]

oh thank you but i meant about the Sylvanas's dagger proc

[velvet nacelle]

so with obedience and doomblade simming pretty evenly right now, what's the compelling reason to make obedience?

[odd hazel]

It’s better

[spice spire]

Well blight is the dagger proc 😛

[velvet nacelle]

oh that's what it's called?

[tame moss]

What % of total damage do venth peeps find flag is for them in M+?

[spice spire]

A. It’s better
B. It’s used in multiple contents, less gear swapping 😛

[floral shoal]

I have a needless weak aura for flag too, it's only purpose is to push me to get higher stacks. So flag isn't just a fire and forget button but makes me plan a bit ahead when I see it coming off cooldown.

[velvet nacelle]

@floral shoal this guy gets it

[odd hazel]

Youre putting to much thought into it

[velvet nacelle]

i mean, empirically is it "better" if it's a wash numerically?

i guess, "what makes it better" is the less snarky way of asking that last question

[violet hemlock]

More Burst better in prog than flat dmg profile

[spice spire]

Along with that - point b. still reigns

[velvet nacelle]

both points are fair

[spice spire]

It’s also just different, albeit very minuscule, and creates a different flow

Which some people really want in their spec

[velvet nacelle]

i've been struggling enough lately so i guess i'm resisting "change for the sake of change" and the cost right now

[spice spire]

Same reason NS MA CT was a thing in M+ for a bit, was about the same damage but they wanted a different feel

[velvet nacelle]

but probably time to stop being a tiny bitch about it and just git gudder

[spice spire]

There’s no “requirement” to change you can use Doomblade and keep vibing bröther.

I swapped back to NL and am living the best life

[velvet nacelle]

well, i'd argue that i'm not vibing anyways, so making a change would be good timing right now

[spice spire]

It’s not like Doomblade is so much worse that it’s unplayable.

That’s fair

[velvet nacelle]

but i was looking too big picture

although if i were to prioritize, i think i'd rather get my celerity up from 195 for M+ then do obedience

although... outlaw already does good aoe/cleave without more AR uptime, maybe obedience for boss burn would be a better idea

now i've confused myself

and after that stupid weak aura the last thing i needed was to confuse myself further

[hollow oasis]

guys, with master assa, do you vanish then envenom or envenom vanish mutilate? i prefer the first one but heard some people do the second one?

[spice spire]

It really doesn’t matter either way, just depends on where you’re at when it comes off CD.

It also depends on talent you take

[velvet nacelle]

i vanish envenom > mutilate personally, i likey them big envenom numbers

i also find it's not a significant difference

[spice spire]

This is assuming you’re using vigor and not deeper - you get 3 GCDs at least in an MA window so you’ll get at least one envenom off, unless you’re just hyper unlucky

[hollow oasis]

ok, thanks!

[velvet nacelle]

ugh, somehow i forgot to do torghast the past 2 weeks on my rogue

i have more cinders on my alts than my main

[odd hazel]

Oof

[velvet nacelle]

might have something to do with how much i absolutely abhor torghast

on the plus side, that means i just punted the decision about which legendary to upgrade to r5 or 6 first. that whole argument is moot for the next 2 weeks haha

[spice spire]

I didn’t do it this past week because I’ve been on the mythic+ grustle for my guild

[velvet nacelle]

once upon a time i was there

oh mythic+

i miss chasing CE

my guild now is pretty bad

i'm like 3rd or 4th overall on every fight with single digit parses

[spice spire]

[velvet nacelle]

it kinda saps the motivation to try much harder when i'm outperforming people while watching the finals during raid

[spice spire]

Casual guild here. I’m all for the m+ grustle, but after the 8th DoS in two weeks for the tank looking for trinkets it’s

[wild mural]

Try doing 27 m+s in 2 weeks to see one dagger 😂

[velvet nacelle]

wait, m+'s can drop loot? 😛

[hollow oasis]

yeah

they usually drop pieces you already have a legendary on

[velvet nacelle]

i don't want to talk about how many pfs i did last tier to get a phial

[odd hazel]

Or the mists trinket

[spice spire]

Mists trinket

[odd hazel]

[alpine latch]

I wouldn't know. I ran 10 m+ yesterday and didn't get a single item

[spice spire]

I did get a dagger instead of a phial at least on PF

[hollow oasis]

i got my only m+ weapon last chest of 9.0, the pf axe for outlaw... now im playing sub in m+

[alpine latch]

I'm still rocking double 220 weapons... I'd kill for a weapon 😦

[odd hazel]

I did get a 226 WPs conduit and shadowgrasp totem out of one DoS

[velvet nacelle]

i got p lucky with weapons from my vault

last tier

[spice spire]

This weekend actually wasn’t too bad - got a 236 dagger and a 239 totem. And a 220 pox on my DH

[velvet nacelle]

i went outlaw spec for some boss in heroic sanctum and got a 239 weapon

[sick cairn]

question, do u guys run crimson tempest? on soulrender?

[spice spire]

I don’t personally but my guild can kinda dome the adds. So if you need add support, and they live for more than a few seconds, it could be good.

[sick cairn]

oh aiight

thanks

and also is everyone really running ep vigor? or am i in a different dimension?

[velvet nacelle]

yeah my guild can kill the adds fast enough, if i go CT it's just to pad for parses

and it's a little early for me to care about padding especially when i'm struggling on fundamentals

ep/vigor sims slightly lower for me, but i needed a break from blindside/ds

vigor generally means more button pushing

ep gives me pretty big envenoms

[lusty surge]

Haven't felt a need to do anything other than tunnel bosses this tier so far

[velvet nacelle]

for those of you multi-spec'ing obedience, what stats did you go for on it?

[lusty surge]

Maybe that will change in mythic

[velvet nacelle]

actually let me check my sub stat priority

[lusty surge]

Pure ST

[spice spire]

For multi-spec you go vers crit

[velvet nacelle]

yeah that seems the safest

oh you know what you need to make legendaries besides the item, memory and missives?

guess i'm farming some torghast

[cedar star]

Do you get a chance at a dom gem one every difficulty

[random fossil]

ep/vigor gang

[cedar star]

or just 1nce per boss no matter what difficulty

[violet hemlock]

Once per boss only

[cedar star]

oh

[violet hemlock]

Ye....

[cedar star]

so if I kill it on Heroic, there is no reason to kill it on Normal for another chance at a gem

[violet hemlock]

Correct

[cedar star]

fuck

[violet hemlock]

Thats why only norm boss i find worthwhile pugging is sylv

[burnt star]

The dom sock are worth

If u dont have 3

Even in 226

[violet hemlock]

Maybe if I had any unholy shards

[spice spire]

Shard of dyz only this week

[velvet nacelle]

how are sylv pugs?

i dunno if i want the dagger that bad

[cedar star]

i have 3 sockets +helm, but only 2 unholy gems :((((

[velvet nacelle]

my guild isn't planning on doing norm

[violet hemlock]

Painful, but doable

Normally ask a guildie or 2 to join me

[ivory chasm]

guys, in AoE, do I spend combo on envenom over garrote or rapture or is one of those more important to maintain

[alpine garden]

Oh you want dom shards? Have a shard of kyr, I hear you rogues love damage absorb

[ivory chasm]

getting mixed advice from guides

[spice spire]

Aoe you want to prioritize running Crimson Tempest - after that you want to maintain ruptures to keep energy regen up, but you want to make sure you envenom occasionally to keep slice n dice rolling

[gusty mirage]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1W2Db7rkSIiT56b0PXQPjugZATnyx6aDOflx4oZgVwgs/edit?usp=sharing

[spice spire]

Priority in aoe can be fluid based on situations overall 😛 but also aoe is 5+

[gusty mirage]

Only sin m+ guide worth reading

[spice spire]

Yeah just listen to the best sin rogue in m+

And ryfie is alright too I guess

[gusty mirage]

Yeah he knows a thing or two

[spice spire]

I was saying you’re the best though oxi

[gusty mirage]

I’m a black powder spammer now though @spice spire

[spice spire]

Oh

Actual unethical and dishonest rogue play

At least you don’t raid as sin too, right haha?

[gusty mirage]

I’m a one trick pony in raid sir

[spice spire]

Actual unethical rogue play

[gusty mirage]

[serene finch]

What lega do you guys use for m+?

I'm running Obedience, but kinda curious about Zoldyck

Is it worth using?

[gusty mirage]

I switched to obedience

Zold is still good for non-venthyr

[low gale]

I need your help guys. I recently switched to venthyr and i've been having trouble getting 30 stacks of flagellation even during the vendetta window, is that normal? As sub I have no problem whatsoever

[gusty mirage]

20ish (18-22) is normal for sin so you’re doing fine

[serene finch]

It's pretty much luck factor

[low gale]

Ah, nice! I thought I was doing something wrong

[serene finch]

Since if you crit, you get much more

[gusty mirage]

You need to get super lucky with crits to even sniff 30 as sin

[low gale]

If i'm not lucky with crits i usually end up with around 20 stacks

[serene finch]

Just make sure to use Flag with 5 combo points

So you get a little headstart

[low gale]

Yeah, i'm doing that. One more thing, do you guys always wait for vendetta to come up before using flagellation?

Or do you use it on cd

[serene finch]

On cd

[low gale]

Ah! That i'm doing wrong

[serene finch]

Most likely

If you use it in AoE situations

You get 30 stacks most likely

Or close to that

[low gale]

Yeah, I noticed that on soulrender

Very easy to stack flag

[serene finch]

That's right

As sin rogue, you most likely just use flag, trinket etc on cooldown

And use vendetta as often as you can afford, while keeping it for bosses and big adds

[zealous quest]

Can i do something in raid/m+ as necro ? cba changing to venthyr as i mainly pvp

[low gale]

I heard that stacking flag and shiv is a must tho

[serene finch]

That's what I do basically

[gusty mirage]

Necro is super good for assa m+ it was the play before obedience was a thing

[zealous quest]

oh nice

[low gale]

Necro in aoe is king, most people run venthyr because it also excels in single target situations

[zealous quest]

how is it good in aoe ?

[low gale]

Because of the bone spike

And heirmir soulbind is also rly good

[serene finch]

gemstone

Crit

=

Big numbers

[low gale]

Yap, pretty much that

[meager mountain]

wait what?...I just made a doomblade cloak.... 😦

[low gale]

x)

[serene finch]

Doomblade is good for single target

[zealous quest]

i use marileth just like in pvp but ill consider swapping then 🙂

[serene finch]

So is obedience

[zealous quest]

thx for the tips

[low gale]

Doomblade it's not bad, actually, is your second best option for single target

[serene finch]

You can run both, but obedience is like a general legendary

Excels in both aoe and single target

[low gale]

And you can also play sub with Obedience

Another pro ^^

[meager mountain]

Does blizzard refund soul ash still? within 12 hours of crafting

[serene finch]

Good question

[timid talon]

No, there is a confirmation lol

[low gale]

I actually don't know mate

[timid talon]

they'll tell you to be more careful next time

[meager mountain]

Crap

[serene finch]

Since the lega crafting asks you twice and you have to wait like 5 sec before you can craft it

I don't think so

[low gale]

Don't worry too much about it, doomblade is also rly good in single target

[meager mountain]

I looked at subcreation and saw doomblade was more popular, I should have just come here first

[low gale]

And you can always craft Zoldyck for mythic

[meager mountain]

thanks for the help!

[rustic whale]

doomblade benefits more if you play necrolord

[meager mountain]

Is there a macro that people use for an opener? whether youre master assassin or blindside? Just like a standard cast sequence one

[rustic whale]

muti > snd > muti > gar

sbs > snd > muti > gar for necro

[alpine garden]

press button Rogue go brrrr

[rustic whale]

idk about blindside procs tho

but still if you have MA talent gotta use muti

at opener

[spice spire]

It’s not recommended

[meager mountain]

Oh okay. I have one for spriest thats pretty long, so I dont fuck up any order of skill/pot during each pull

but if its not the same for rogue, i wont, ty

[spice spire]

Yeah, due to optimal play changing due to seal fate or procs from bs (if you run) it creates branching gameplay.

[velvet nacelle]

oh i forgot how much soul ash you get from a single run

[spice spire]

Quite a bit these days

[meager mountain]

ahh good point thank you. forgot about seal of fate

[velvet nacelle]

i was like 800 away, got it in one side

[rustic whale]

layer 11 - 1100-150 if i m not mistaken

[velvet nacelle]

yeah i had just unlocked 10 on this guy

960

obedience made

you guys convinced me

gun to my head and all

[rustic whale]

hf 😄

i m necro doom btw 😄

[velvet nacelle]

yeah i was running doom too

but i like the idea of a legendary that actually affects my rotation

[gusty mirage]

[velvet nacelle]

lots of em are just passive

[rustic whale]

so you got a bite from vamps

just don't miss to spend combo points on activation 😄

or its a waste

[twin prism]

when will we be able to craft obedience?

[gusty mirage]

You can craft it now

[velvet nacelle]

you can get to 48 this week

as long as you play the catchup game right

[twin prism]

well im currently renown 37 so i dont think i can make it this week

[velvet nacelle]

you absolutely can

don't turn in your 1k anima or do your campaign/weekly in korthia

do lfr and dungeons to 45

then turn those bad boys in

it might gate you at like 42 or 43 and force you to do korthia campaign for renown it was weird and inconsistent in 9.0

but lfr and raids gives a ton of catchup

[meager mountain]

Does anyone recommend a youtuber/streamer whos vods i can watch? for raiding/m+?

[velvet nacelle]

ugh i didn't 4 star the 10

i didn't use the empower at all

[deft wagon]

If im raiding as assassination and really wanna do m+ too, should i go necro for assass/outlaw?

Sorry if this gets asked alot

[velvet nacelle]

it's covered in the pins

and the bottom line is: it doesn't matter that much, play what you enjoy

forgot torghast is basically timed now ugh

[twin prism]

are there any really good assassination rogues that i can see their sanctum of domination fights?

also why is this the case?
Use Envenom at four or more combo points (5+ with Deeper Stratagem). Against a single target, without damage cooldowns up, it is worth pooling to about 80% energy before using it.

[tame sigil]

Does that mean in your Shiv window?

[spice spire]

Which part? That’s two seperate thoughts 😛

[spice spire]

That is one, yes!

[twin prism]

Against a single target, without damage cooldowns up, it is worth pooling to about 80% energy before using it.

this one, why is this the case?

[hollow river]

So you always have energy available/can switch to reapplying your bleeds when they hit pandemic instead of casting another envenom

And you will also always have energy to burn fast during the beginning of your CDs. Also stretches envenom debuff uptime on your enemy a bit

[twin prism]

aha i understand!

And do you ever use shiv if youre at max CP?

[hollow river]

Yes

Slam it no matter what as long as rupture is ticking on your target

[tame sigil]

I recently started playing Assa again for raid cause of course I would this tier. Open with mutilate and use S&D, then another mutilate and garrote, rupture depending on combo points. Then I feel kinda energy starved unless its bloodlust on pull and I feel I have to wait to pool energy a little and then Adrenaline Rush, covenant ability/trinket, shiv, vanish then spam my envenoms. However it can sometimes feel a little awkward cause garrote will start to drop in that Shiv window and Rupture will be close to falling off because I was pooling energy before popping off. Is this just how everyone is without BL on pull atm because of the lack of Haste? I am running Vigor as well.

[tame moss]

so i shouldn't hold if i'm just about to drop a 5cp rupture?

[hollow river]

Nah slam it on CD. I mean if you’re literally right about to, idk tbh. If rupture is in pandemic and u have 5cp I’m not sure

I always try to press it as soon as it’s off CD

[gusty mirage]

You should ideally be refreshing your rupture in pandemic so in a perfect scenario you’d refresh your rupture and then shiv

[tame moss]

thanks for the info, i've been trying to hold it till i have full poisons up

[gusty mirage]

But you should shiv on CD

[scenic meteor]

@tame sigil what covenant are you?

[tame sigil]

Night Fae

[twin prism]

Got it!

[hollow river]

In opener you apply garrote and rupture first. Do you have a WA to track pandemic timers?

[twin prism]

So assassination is basically keeping up dots, and having enough energy in your shiv windows?

[tame moss]

yeah i do, but i'm thinking about MT

[hollow river]

MT?

[tame moss]

multi-target

[hollow river]

Ahh

[tame sigil]

I'm guessing Venthyr doesn't have that problem because of the Haste buff?

[velvet nacelle]

envenom when: you're within 1 point of cap and at 70-80% energy OR you're in a vendetta, shiv or flag window, then just throw em as fast as you can get em

at least that's my understanding

envenom is basically our lowest priority finisher

[hollow river]

Assassination is just kind of a slower spec. You get used to it and it gets a tad bit better with more gear.

[tame sigil]

If I do swap (which I dont wanna cause I do like the theme of NF) I would probably go necro because I play Outlaw a lot out of raid

[velvet nacelle]

i tend to think of it as burstier than slower

[hollow river]

Make sure you always have your poisons applied as those give you energy regen too

[twin prism]

but overall its pretty simple right?

[velvet nacelle]

rogue is pretty simple overall to be average

[scenic meteor]

Yeah venthyr with obedience helps with that a lot @tame sigil

[velvet nacelle]

squeezing out the last little bits tend to be a lot of small habits and nothing huge

[hollow river]

Sub is definitely burstier

[velvet nacelle]

i guess that's true

sub burst feels like a long window to me

so it feels more like "lots to do with windows of nothing"

whereas assassination feels more like a "wait for it... GO" class

[hollow river]

Idkk I feel the opposite

[velvet nacelle]

and outlaw is just "how badly do you want carpal tunnel?"

[sharp panther]

yeah lol

[hollow river]

Sub pools outside of dance

As well

Just has faster/more windows

[velvet nacelle]

yeah, that's probably why it feels more the norm to me to play in those windows

also i mainly play sub for just questing and torghast now so i'm only ever really in those burst windows

so i'm probably biased

[hollow river]

Yeah lol I’ve been trying it out a bit in raid

Backstabbing feels rough

[velvet nacelle]

i found sub to feel a lot like ww to me

[hollow river]

Bout to craft obedience though hoping it feels a bit better

[velvet nacelle]

once you 'get it' you kind of just settle into a rhythm

and yeah you can get better at that rhythm

[mild dagger]

Master assassin opener pumps on single target

[hollow river]

It’s really just CD management

[velvet nacelle]

but assassination feels like i'm reacting more to the situation than just kind of hitting my buttons

[hollow river]

Yeah I like the bleed upkeep playstyle

[tame moss]

how many stacks should i be aiming for on flag?

[hollow river]

Sub is a nice change of pace though especially on fights with a little aoe you can funnel finishers off of

[hollow river]

18-24ish

Outside of lust

[velvet nacelle]

when i was running sub in early 9.0 i swear the difference between me watching the playoffs during raid and me being focused was like... 1% overall dps heh

i LOVE those fights @hollow river

[hollow river]

Same

Painsmith and Fatescribe

[velvet nacelle]

hmm, didn't think of painsmith as being one of those fights

just the balls?

[tame moss]

cheers

[velvet nacelle]

fatescribe and the uh... garrosh duder

fatescribe makes sense but we haven't downed it in heroic yet and i've only got like 3 pulls on normal

[hollow river]

Yea

Soulrender adds too

[velvet nacelle]

soulrender yeah that one

i guess the balls come about every minute-ish right?

so you could have flag up for every one of them

and just pump finishers into him

[hollow river]

Haven’t played obedience yet

Gonna craft this week

[velvet nacelle]

i JUST made mine

[hollow river]

Can’t wait to use it in sub keys

[velvet nacelle]

i hadn't done torghast on my rogue for 2 weeks and didn't realize it so i'm nowhere near close enough on cinders

i'm not good about flag on keys

my group runs boomie, me and a hunter or mage

[hollow river]

Just press on Cd

And u can craft without cinders?

Craft r4

[velvet nacelle]

so trash dies pretty fast, i haven't bothered even being outlaw since with boomie/mage i'm mainly there for boss damage

[narrow ravine]

so what changed with our sims to give us this new boost?

[velvet nacelle]

yeah i did, i was kind of torn about whether or not to make it at r5 but then r5 is out for 2 weeks for me anyways

[narrow ravine]

sims jumped about 1000 dps in the last few days since I checked

[hollow river]

Idk I think whispyr made some optimizations

[narrow ravine]

I see necrolord and doomblade back on the table

[hollow river]

Read the pins

It says

[narrow ravine]

at least above 11k dps

[velvet nacelle]

@hollow river i had a top parse on harjatan because of the boss pumping... on a 5% wipe

like i had more damage than the top guy and we didn't even finish the fight

i mean, ultimately that's a 0 ACTUAL damage

[narrow ravine]

nice, didn't really want to switch to venthyr anyway 🙂

[hollow river]

Hellyeah

I gotta get back to work

[velvet nacelle]

but the potential with the right things playing out for the finisher pumping is just so fun on sub

[hollow river]

Later sneaky peeps

[velvet nacelle]

it's the only thing i really like about it

later!

also i was furious that we wiped at 5%, might have been even lower heh

[tardy steppe]

Should i use vigor or DS for tarrague?

[velvet nacelle]

DS simmed like 50dps higher for me, vigor feels like more fun

[narrow ravine]

doesn't seem like much, the 10% but it does feel better

[velvet nacelle]

i'm sure there's some direct numbers correlation too, but my crit is only like 29% so DS felt more punishing to get 2CP muts

like i can remember a lot of times where i had to mutilate 3 times to get to 5+ for a DS finisher

so running vigor makes me feel like i get to use my finishers more often and control the burst windows better

[twin prism]

are there any really good assassination rogue streamers

where i can analyse their gameplay?

for raids

[cerulean nest]

so the unholy set is based on the lowest level shard in the trio. what if I add a frost one that's lower? does it all still base off that one, or is the unholy trio separate from that?

[peak badger]

Heygang. I'm looking for some constructive feedback on how i can improve my dps. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/aqGpDLwNXWH91ABR#fight=16&type=damage-done

[spice spire]

Missed a cast of flag 😦
Other than that - about 200 wasted energy isn’t the biggest deal

Looking at only the eye*

[pure moth]

you cast vanish at 38 seconds and not with the vendetta/shiv in your opener.

[spice spire]

You’re also wasting some CP on mutilates pretty evenly across all fights, try to not spam the button waiting on energy 😛

[median hamlet]

any situation where doomblade > obi?

[spice spire]

I’m also seeing missing shiv casts across fights

It’s really not the BIGGEST deal on any it’s very small things to improve

[gusty adder]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[rancid blaze]

@twin prism Infexious Gaming

[alpine garden]

Are the guides actually up to date?

[narrow ravine]

I used to main outlaw but im a bit fuzzy on how assassin does aoe packs in m+ sorta just trying to keep rupture up on a few things, for energy reasons, and fan of knives and crimson

but do we use crimson every time or is it not worth overwriting if one is already there

what is the optimal setup for aoe if anyone has a moment please

[teal bloom]

Do not spam CT, just maintain the bleed on enemies like rupture

[narrow ravine]

do we spend on single target in that case or just pool and wait?

feels odd having full cp and not having anything to use it on

not like our aoe dps is much different than our ST dps

[plain thistle]

rupture anything that lives long enough, maintain CT, maintain SnD with envenom

we do have things to use combo points in AoE, envenom does increase our AoE damage by not having to cast SnD again and with envenom buff increasing our poison damage

[narrow ravine]

thanks

[swift lodge]

In AoE Do i only CT once? Or do i ensure it never drops off while maintaining ruptures and envenoms for SnD?

[plain thistle]

you maintain like a normal dot

[swift lodge]

Thanks

[cerulean nest]

people still crafting doomblade huh

[fallen arch]

Yea

If you’re necro

[narrow ravine]

yeah it makes sense just felt odd coming from other aoe specs that you are mostly just doing single target with the added CT, spreading some ruptures but going back to a main focus target and doing ST rotation on them

[fallen arch]

That’s not entirely true

You slap ruptures on as many enemies as you can

[narrow ravine]

I get to about 4 then they start dropping off

[fallen arch]

While maintaining CT and use garrote on cd

While also envenom to keep slice

But it’s not at all the same as st rotation

[timid talon]

it sims higher than obedience does in current gear for most of us, so yes.

[pale plank]

In my case I went with doomblade Bcz it sims higher, and I don’t plan on switch specs. If u plan on playing sub and sin go with obedience. The difference in dps is not game breaking

[small bramble]

ive seen people fok and ct and get higher numbers kinda like shuriken and black powder

[fallen arch]

Wdym

U need to get bleeds rolling

Otherwise ur energy starved after 2 foks and 2 CT

[hearty lagoon]

Got a question guys. everytime i run top-Gear Sims my Gear with the most haste is getting removed.. when i gear up with the bis gear from this sims and run Droptimizer afterwars he want me to loot pieces of the gear i unequipped bc of the topgear sims XD doesn´t make sense to me..Any idea if its bugged or anything is like capped, especially does hast have a softcap or smth`? TopGear: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/drktdXP5Yib9At4nwjRZRQ BiS: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3N2vujnkWqShsRrxTdXShe For Example the Ring this breaking wheel thing, i already got this in my bags but it always tells me to unequip it

[lusty surge]

CT doesn't pandemic does it?

[prisma cypress]

why wouldnt it?

[red plaza]

Link the two sims

[spice spire]

It does

[crystal vault]

if we play CT, do we use it ST outside of shiv windows ?

[gusty mirage]

Top gear uses the gear in your bags, droptimizer utilizes whatever ilvl you set when you search

[spice spire]

Yes

[primal zodiac]

is there a reason other than personal pref and i guess ease of use why EP/vig is the "dominant" talentsetup for painsmith? talking heroic, not mythic

[red plaza]

BS/DS doesn’t shine unless it has long execute times which won’t happen in heroic parsing where fights are just blasted

Also EP/vig is much easier to burst 2+ targets so anytime there’s more than one thing to hit you play that

[azure flare]

Not just necro

[inland jacinth]

i just moved to venthyr from necro, anybody have the new obedience lego and actually happy with it? :)

[deep solstice]

I've liked it a lot as sub. Haven't tried it on sin since it Sims lower for me.....but I'm lucky to get a 25 stack of flag as sin on average. So......

[idle star]

Im much happier with it as sub

[past crescent]

BiS Horde race for min/max would be Blood Elf or?

[rancid blaze]

for sin i think it's troll

[past crescent]

Even for say, PvP?

[prisma cypress]

simming yourself seems like a bad idea for that, since it's something you can't change as easily as a piece of gear

better to know what will come out ahead later on

[past crescent]

Well see, people tell you to Sim, because they don't want to answer your question.

[deep solstice]

If you're worried about pvp then the minor damage difference between races honestly does not matter at all.

[narrow ravine]

id think pvp would more worry about racial bonuses that are not dps related

[drifting cloud]

its orc and its not even close

[gusty mirage]

For pvp you go orc as horde

You don’t go anything else. There is no secret technique

[deep solstice]

Stun reduction good.

[past crescent]

@gusty mirage Thank you Oxi, for answering my question, you're the best.

[inland jacinth]

damn gotcha thanks

[fresh kernel]

Hey guys is 5k damage overall decent for theatre of pain as 220 ilvl, I ran crimson tempest but thinking maybe I should of gone poison bomb for that dungeon.

New to rogue so just trying to get a general idea.

[limber lion]

So many things matter when it comes to stuff like that

so it's really hard to say what's good and what's not.

M+ is filled with variables.

[fresh kernel]

I understand that I'm just looking to see via people with experience if I'm running average(ballpark) for the ilvl.

[pale fossil]

You did the right thing running CT, though.

5K damage isn't bad if your squad was pulling pretty slow/small, but it's a little low overall. You should be running EP/Vigor/Subterfuge/CT and Zoldyk (unless you have Obedience).

[fresh kernel]

I was running those talents and I only have obedience Lego so far.

[spice spire]

Deaths, pull size, and a multitude of other factors come into play. I’d say 5 is fine but could be improved, 5 was about what our other rogue ran his first times and he’s 223

[fresh kernel]

From vods I watched, some where saying to swap to poison bomb for some runs, after that run I was wondering if CT was the play due to low dmg from it overall versus all the ST bigger mobs in XAV wing.

[deep solstice]

CT single target is good damage if you keep it up. IE on sire P3 people kept up CT on the boss still and it did well. The damage you gain aoe outside xav wing should outweigh the single target losses.

[pale fossil]

Generally, CT sims only a little below PB in ST but FAR outperforms PB in multi-target situations.

So CT should be your standard unless you're just really worried about ST damage on Tyrannical week or something.

[grim lion]

Is assa aoe rotation on packs like the slimes before the first boss in plaguefall just fan of knives + crimson tempest?

[violet hemlock]

If u timed the key and we're competitive with the other dps you probs did enough dmg... Kinda how I've been determinibg my dps in dungeons.

[fresh kernel]

Wait, so I should be still using CT in single target scenario's? Some rogue I was in a run with said I should not be doing CT on a boss or ST mobs that it is better to envenom

[pale fossil]

Pretty much, but you still want to open with Garrotes from stealth and spam SBS

[grim lion]

I see, I see

[pale fossil]

Pure ST situations, like raid, you want PB. But as soon as there's more than one target involved, you generally want CT.

[plain zealot]

So you always use CT, even in ST situations (like m+ bosses or soulrender)? sry for ask between another question xD

[violet hemlock]

Ct does more dmg than envenom outta shiv

[pale fossil]

For example, most people are running CT on Soulrender even though that's a ST fight because it involves adds, but still running PB on Tarragrue.

[violet hemlock]

PB quickly loses value if the boss moves a lot

[prisma cypress]

speaking of movement...how much value does theotar lose?

[eternal turtle]

for the unholy shard set, should you just upgrade the dps shard as much as possible or level them all up equally?

[pale fossil]

Theotar w/ Obediance is the highest simming Dungeon Slice loadout (see pins), so I suppose it's not too bad. It's hard to quantify loss from movement, though.

[violet hemlock]

Could check uptime and do a compariain that way

But ye not easy

[deep solstice]

I always just Sim myself. IE Draven is legit highest dslice Sim for my outlaw set ATM.

[pale fossil]

Yeah, that's the move.

[red plaza]

The set bonus levels with your lowest piece, so if you have a rank 5 dps one, but a rank 1 utility, the set bonus will still be rank 1. So upgrade them all equally

The strength of the unholy set is the set bonus, not the 1.5%dmg amp shard

[eternal turtle]

yeah thnx i found out!

got all of them level 3 now next one is so expensive

[red plaza]

I want to say it's better to get the other 2 dps ones from blood and frost to level 3 as well before you upgrade the unholy set again in terms of efficiency

[slate scarab]

I usually use Poison Bomb but am going to try our Crimson Tempest instead. Can this be used repeatedly on the same pack while the dot is ticking, or should I wait for the dot to complete before doing another CT? Sorry if that is a common question, I don't see it anywhere there.

[inland jacinth]

i'm not sure if i want to farm 5000 ash to form obedience to 235 from 0 lol if people hate it lol :(

been using doom

[fallen arch]

Wait, you have been doing m+ with poison bomb?

[pale fossil]

Don't use it repeatedly

[fallen arch]

Cos I did that today by accident and it was absolute trash

[pale fossil]

Refresh during the pandemic

[slate scarab]

Great, ty

[fallen arch]

Use it like your regular bleed finisher

It’s gonna give you a massive dps boost over pb in m+

[slate scarab]

Yes, I was unhappy with poison bomb results (thus the change 😉

How many targets does it need to make DPS sense to use?

[scenic osprey]

does anyone actually play with deeper stra ?

[shy dust]

In ST it is the premier talent

[odd hazel]

BS/DS is the best pure ST

[timid talon]

Most people don't use it because the difference is minimal and vigor feels better

[fallen arch]

But nobody realy wants to play it

[fallen arch]

On every number of targets

Even on single target u maintain dot

[odd hazel]

Yeah. I enjoy it for a little bit

[fallen arch]

Outside of shiv

[velvet nacelle]

well that was intersting, i just did a torghast layer with a group from ragnaros... it's so good that i'm linked to servers from other continents

[slate scarab]

Thanks, this looks like it is a big potential improvement to my performance.

[velvet nacelle]

i had like a 2000ms ping to that instance

[fallen arch]

Probably, gonna be huge for you

[velvet nacelle]

we got a trap floor and the traps weren't even animating, it was just like watching a powerpoint

@slate scarab i've found that it's hard to maintain CT AND capitalize on envenom burst windows personally, i hate the rng of poison bomb but over the length of a long fight it seems to normalize

i ran a lot of CT in m+ last tier, just out of boredom from outlaw, and my ST dps dropped pretty noticeably doing it vs when i'd go pure single target build on tyrannical weeks

i usually run with a very strong aoe group so we don't necessarily need my trash contributions in most dungeons

[fallen arch]

I just dont get how you can take yourself seriously without ct in a dungeon tbh

It’s massive

[slate scarab]

What made me look at it in the 1st place was I am using Doomblade and I thought maybe another bleed would work well with that. Then I started seeing that everyone is doing it and hardly anyone uses PB in Mythics anymore (at least on the stats I was looking at), making me think I'm late to the party on this one.

[velvet nacelle]

well, by noticeably, i'd say like a few hundred dps, nothing too serious

@fallen arch it's a lot less fun, that's for sure

[fallen arch]

Yeah but for packs its thousands of dps more

Literally

[slate scarab]

I can't wait to play tonight, feels like a new toy to play with

[velvet nacelle]

it's definitely a fun toy

and very viable

[fallen arch]

No it’s almost mandatory imo

To time anything over like a 16 or 17

[velvet nacelle]

sorry i was thinking more purely for ST (ie. raids)

didn't realize the context was PURELY m+

[fallen arch]

Oh no dont use that crap for ST raids 😂

[slate scarab]

I'm only running 12s, but more damage will mean better 12s too 😉

[scenic osprey]

I see, bliz balance tuning talent is just LOL one taleng gives 40% dmg increase

[velvet nacelle]

we were doing 17s fine on tyrannical weeks without me on CT for a few of em

like plaguefall specifically

[teal bloom]

Crimson tempest is very powerful in aoe, poison bomb does barely any damage in single target anyway so no reason not to run CT

[velvet nacelle]

CT is just fun with big pulls too

[scenic osprey]

i think in pinned said maintain CT outside of burst window ?

[velvet nacelle]

ryfie's guide is how i generally play CT: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1W2Db7rkSIiT56b0PXQPjugZATnyx6aDOflx4oZgVwgs/edit

[slate scarab]

I don't see a pinned chat for rotation, I was looking for it

[teal bloom]

In single target you maintain ct outside shiv windows if you are talented to it

[velvet nacelle]

that

[craggy basin]

Been out for the weekend I see Sims show obe back on top . That JUST cuz of d sockets ??

[velvet nacelle]

sims are constantly being refined

the ryfie doc explains the why's for the rotation pretty well i think

[slate scarab]

All the stats I see the top M+ performers are using Doomblade, but all the guides say Zoldyck. Am I reading the stat pages wrong, or are the guides behind and Doomblade is better now?

[velvet nacelle]

the ryfie guide talks about it

I get questions asking why not Doomblade overall? Doomblade only works if you use Mutilate. In any key, you will generally be using Fan of Knives far more than Mutilate. Every GCD you spend using Fan of Knives over Mutilate, you’re losing value on Doomblade. So why play a legendary that only works 1/3 or even 1/4 of the time? Zoldyck works in every single situation, making it far superior.

he goes on to say that he uses doomblade in plaguefall because of how you use the bomb mobs to kill stuff more, so the higher throughput from doomblade on the final boss helps to avoid double CHOCOLATE RAIN casts

sorry, infectious rain

i kind of think that obedience might overtake doomblade as the go to now that people actually have it

[slate scarab]

On a side note, I would enjoy chocolate rain...

I'm Necrolord so Obedience isn't an option anyway

[velvet nacelle]

where are you seeing these stats anyways?

i only ever look at WCL and no one uploads their M+ logs

[slate scarab]

I made a 235 Deathspike and tested it last night. My damage was significantly lower than when I used a 235 Doomblade before that. I have not used a Zoldyck yet though.

[teal bloom]

deathspike is bad

[slate scarab]

https://mplus.subcreation.net/assassination-rogue.html

I was looking here at the stats. And yeah, I was super disappointed with the deathspike. I wanted it to be good so badly.

[velvet nacelle]

of the two logs i managed to find, one is doomblade and one is zoldyck heh

and now we have an obedience in the mix

zoldyck's is used in almost 48%, doomblade in 38.75% and obedience in 9.59%

i'm willing to bet that next week obedience will climb

especially for a tyrannical week

actually hmm, i can see that logic going either way

also, that's from your link son!

[slate scarab]

This conversation has been so informative. I've been playing rogue since day one of WoW (more casually than the people here I'm sure) so I think I've gotten a little lax on keeping up with the best information, thinking "I already know that". I clearly don't know it though, and now I can't wait to make some changes. Like breathing some life into a boring routine.

[velvet nacelle]

@slate scarab "i already know that" is a dangerous mentality

not that i'm anything but trash, but i'm constantly having my assumptions corrected in here

even on small things

[slate scarab]

I got my stats mixed up, the Doomblade being the top legendary was from the Raid portion of that site, not the M+

[velvet nacelle]

at best i'm usually like an 80% parser, so far this expansion i've been solidly in the 40-60 range though so clearly i have a lot of room to improve

obedience is a lot more fun than doomblade so i'm imagining it'll gain some headway next week too

[slate scarab]

My last raid I was top dps for my group but only parsed at like 15%. Only one way to go from there! (and I need to give a pep talk to the rest of the group too ;P )

[velvet nacelle]

i had a 9% parse that ranked 4th in my guild this week

granted, i got a fuckton of mechanics

but it can be hard to focus up when that's the team

like why should i wake up and throw a football through a tire at 5am if there's a guy in the secondary that's just spinning around eating boogers

[visual prairie]

SPORTSBALL!

[velvet nacelle]

fair but the analogy stands

i straight up said, during raid this week, "I'm not turning off the finals if we keep losing people to distintegrate. why should i have to focus up more than them when i'm already doing better than them?"

i may have gotten a wee bit toxic

[fallen arch]

This amazes me

That so many people actually run m+ with doomblade

[slate scarab]

Well it's 1 less after today

[inland jacinth]

@fallen arch missing the convo, is doom blade not the play? hehe, or maybe... people just don't want to run 20+ torghast to get another legendary

lol

like what i'm gonna have to do if i want to craft obedience -_-

[fallen arch]

Not for m+ it isn’t

For the exact reasons that were just posted out of Ryfie’s guide

[pale fossil]

I often end up running M+ with DB because I forget to swap haha

[slow marsh]

Yike

Y'all be watching too much infexious and it shows

[pale fossil]

But if you just sim yourself with Zoldyk versus DB on DSlice, it will always tell you to run Zoldyk.

[fallen arch]

Ye it happens to me on occasion too and those runs I am so ashamed of my dps

Especially on fort weeks

[rapid forum]

is there a reason everyone is playing ep vigor? blindside deeper sims better for me in theorie

[rough kernel]

was wondering the same thing pimfi

[shy dust]

Lots of fights with more than 1 target

Or execute can be a bit of less value

[ripe saddle]

How easy is it to pick up assassin play style? I hit 60 last Monday and been gearing m+/raid as necro outlaw

[shy dust]

Or not work at all as in Sylvannas

[ripe saddle]

Just finished farming 236 daggers from M+ need to be ST sin for raid, hope I don't suck by Tuesday

[hollow river]

This is the saddest thing I’ve ever read.

They need to revert deathspike and remove the extra SBS flurrying

There’s FAQ channelssssssss

.

Omg

Is no more

Nvm I lied

[untold nest]

@ripe saddle in my personal opinion. Assasination is not hard to pick up, do your research, read a guide, compare some logs and you will be there. I find that for raids its quite "forgiving" as a specc in comparison to sub

[hollow river]

JustRuss has some reliable guides that seem to be approved by the theorycrafters here. Also marcellian. Both on YouTube. Other than that check the pins, FAQ channel, and guides like IceyVeins.

[ripe saddle]

For sure. Thanks bros. I'll be watching/reading guides and roughing up those training dummy

[spice spire]

New channels

[hollow river]

Yep. Pog

[spice spire]

FAQ very smart addition

[red plaza]

[sonic schooner]

FAQ channel is the new pins

[hollow river]

Nope we got both

[sonic schooner]

2 things to not read 😔

[amber mountain]

I'm gonna need a new "read the pins" gif that says "read the faq"

[sonic schooner]

will be hard to miss informations now

[hollow river]

[amber mountain]

nah, people are surprisingly willing to overlook readily available sources of information in favour of dropping in and asking here

[hollow river]

Sometimes when learning a new class it can be a little overwhelming

[amber mountain]

absolutely

[hollow river]

When a lot of guides just use acronyms and 20 different combinations of crapola

Warlock FAQ o.O

[amber mountain]

but right now, with 'sin topping charts, having non-stop questions in here can be overwhelming too 🙂

[hollow river]

For sure

[amber mountain]

Heh, i have to look up some of the acronyms used here, and I've played 'sin longer than anything

mostly because my aged brain is going smooth as it decays

[hollow river]

That’s why I try to pop in and answer stuff when I can, because others did it for me back when I was getting the hang of things.

I’ll always be getting the hang of things tbh x.x

[amber mountain]

that means you're always working to improve 🙂 not a bad quality

[surreal mountain]

is necro assasin good in mythic plus and raiding?

[amber mountain]

yes

[surreal mountain]

with finality?

[spice spire]

It’s top two 🙂

[surreal mountain]

how much better is it than sub necro?

[spice spire]

[surreal mountain]

which lege

[spice spire]

Zoldyck’s

[amber mountain]

Yeah Zoldyck for M+, Doomblade for Raid (bosses at least)

[surreal mountain]

ah okay

[amber mountain]

And it's close enough that individual play and comfort is going to make the difference... unless you're a machine

[spice spire]

It’s worse for m+ because sin is worse for m+

Than sub NL*

[surreal mountain]

oh so then for mythics i can just go sub with finality

[pale fossil]

I'm not sure I've ever seen a Sub Necrolord

[surreal mountain]

and raids ill switch to assa doonblade

[spice spire]

I’m not either lol

Yeah that works

[surreal mountain]

ur outlaw kyrian?

[hollow river]

I tried out sub NL for a very short period

Feels clunky

Most of us here are venthyr id imagine

[amber mountain]

I'm Necro

[hollow river]

Maybe some NL assa

[amber mountain]

started venth before it was cool, then when it started to get crowded I moved to necro

[spice spire]

NL here 😛

[hollow river]

I’m playing sin and sub so I’m venthyr

[amber mountain]

(just kidding, i moved necro for the slime cat)

[hollow river]

Oh wow

[spice spire]

True

[hollow river]

Look at these assassin chad’s

[surreal mountain]

someone else told me that sub necro was worse in m+ than assa necro, now ur telling me sub is better

[hollow river]

Sub used to sim worse as necro

[amber mountain]

I play 'sin necro for M+, sub used to be worse, but the black powder buff made it better

[hollow river]

It’s not terrible now, but I believe that is later on with more renown too

[surreal mountain]

im renown 48 on sub necro

[hollow river]

If u wanna play sub check the pins in the sub channel

They show u the sims

[surreal mountain]

k

[hollow river]

For covs and leggos

[amber mountain]

always remember plays a big difference than what sims will give you

[surreal mountain]

true

[amber mountain]

In theory i could be busting out with outlaw in M+, but I just can't play that whack-a-mole spec as well

[surreal mountain]

haha

[amber mountain]

'sin and sub i'm more comfortable with, but I still get better numbers as 'sin in M+ because i play it in the world and in raids

I can practically turn my UI off and get numbers with 'sin. Sub I still have to check cooldowns... outlaw I have to tunnel on my bars >.<

[surreal mountain]

xD

[ruby gust]

what percentage of haste everyone at?

[pale fossil]

I'm Necro, but I don't play Sub.

[amber mountain]

not enough?

[surreal mountain]

11% haha

[pale fossil]

31%

[ruby gust]

31

jeez

what should i be aiming for

[pale fossil]

I go fast

Don't. Just sim potential upgrades.

[surreal mountain]

37% mastery.. is that good

[amber mountain]

Yeah, chasing specific pieces of gear is the path to madness

[ruby gust]

Problem is simming doesn't take into account

Titnaic Occular Gland

So I've only got 16% haste

[amber mountain]

O.o isn't that a healer trinket?

Or am i thinking of the wrong one

[amber mountain]

I'm only at 15% haste

Oh... that one

[pale fossil]

What in tarnation

[ruby gust]

im at 16% without that

with it im at 22%

[amber mountain]

I'm only at 226 ilvl though

Heroic raiding hasn't started this tier (we haven't made it through normal yet due to people tanking vacation etc)

I mean seriously... who vacations?

[night prawn]

hi there how do you use your flagellation when using obedience ? its not lining up with vendetta and if i use it on cd it will never sync again 😦

[amber mountain]

(i dunno, i'm necro)

[quaint sequoia]

how do u tank a vacation?

[amber mountain]

I guess you just take the damage head-on?

[lavish lichen]

Who told you this?

Why would it not account for it?

[mental trout]

When I make my doom blade on cloak do I want to use the 2 stat that sim the best for me atm or is there an idea of what once’s would most likely be the best at higher ilvls?

What ones+

[pale fossil]

You want haste and crit.

[mental trout]

Figured

[obsidian socket]

just noticing that obedience now outsims doomblade in ST? why did that change

[mental trout]

I always have to manipulate my gear in order for that trinket to boost my haste and not my vers 😂 so annoying. If you change gear so you have max of the stat you want, put the trinket on it will buff. Then you replace your gear with what you want and you’ll have haste buff if it’s already not the highest.

Any rogues have their chaos bane yet?

[balmy condor]

It didn’t, always been like that, it’s a gear thing

[cerulean nest]

me as of last night

[balmy condor]

Yeh bunch of people

[cerulean nest]

its pretty bonkers

[mental trout]

Wonder how much on average that set bonus increase dps. I am one shard away, and I think I can have it rank 3 before a Thursday raid?

[pale fossil]

@balmy condor Which anima powers do we like?

In M+

[cerulean nest]

i went up like 900 dps, with rank 3

[balmy condor]

Plumage dagger and champ brand are all pretty good

[pale fossil]

I've been taking plumage for dungeons with dangerous mobs (esp during fort week) and then champion's brand (moar crit). I figure I'll grab necrotic instead of plumage next week so it'll be tyrannical.

[balmy condor]

Yeah it does a lot of damage

[pale fossil]

If the dungeon doesn't have many problem mobs I've been grabbing 2x brand

Not sure if that's good or not haha

[balmy condor]

Yep that’s fine

Is it giving crit?

[pale fossil]

Yeah

[balmy condor]

Perfect

[pale fossil]

I'm assuming I want to avoid brand if it's giving me mastery instead

[balmy condor]

It’s worse yeh

[spice spire]

Plumage stonks down on inspiring week

[buoyant venture]

hey guys, one quick question. Is there any mechaninc in SoD where rogue COS is usefull? like tarragrue soaks

[balmy condor]

A lot of places

[odd hazel]

You can drop quite a bit of mechanics with cloak

[balmy condor]

There’s at least 1 cloakable mechanic on every single fight

Most of the times like 3

[odd hazel]

You can go through the beam on the eye with cloak

[buoyant venture]

nice, tonight we'll probably do tarragrue, soak are doable with cos then?

[alpine garden]

Whats the opener with flag when running BS/DS?

[spice spire]

Cloak on the nine just hits diffy tho

[sage yew]

i think wowhead have a guide with a few that can be skipped with cloack

[balmy condor]

No, it won’t drop stacks

[balmy condor]

Same as always, flag into rupture

[obsidian socket]

so basically imma self sim and its gonna tell me doomblade cuz im not top geared?

[balmy condor]

I mean idk your character

[odd hazel]

Could be, obedience sims even closer to me then doom the more gear I get

[balmy condor]

If you sim yourself and it’s doomblade

Then it’s doomblade

If it’s obedience, it’s obedience

[obsidian socket]

imma do it rn

my 225 doomblade beats 235 obed crit vers

[deep solstice]

!pb

[prisma monolith]

Deadly Poison doesn't apply on some casts like Garrote, Rupture, and Shiv.
It's a minor bug but "notable" in that it does have some noticeable impact on DPS.
Should be around a 100-200 dps loss

[dreamy elk]

!pb

[prisma monolith]

Deadly Poison doesn't apply on some casts like Garrote, Rupture, and Shiv.
It's a minor bug but "notable" in that it does have some noticeable impact on DPS.
Should be around a 100-200 dps loss

Deadly Poison doesn't apply on some casts like Garrote, Rupture, and Shiv.
It's a minor bug but "notable" in that it does have some noticeable impact on DPS.
Should be around a 100-200 dps loss

[amber mountain]

pb should return "smooth or chunky"

[cold rampart]

sharpen or oil?

[hollow river]

!oil

[prisma monolith]

Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ

[maiden socket]

!pb

[prisma monolith]

Deadly Poison doesn't apply on some casts like Garrote, Rupture, and Shiv.
It's a minor bug but "notable" in that it does have some noticeable impact on DPS.
Should be around a 100-200 dps loss

[cold rampart]

i dont get it

[hollow river]

?

[cold rampart]

what is this

[hollow river]

It’s a command about sharpening stones/shadow core oil

It basically states that the difference between the two is normally within 0.5% of each other. You can basically just use whichever is cheapest on your realm. If you are concerned with minmaxing every <0.5% you should sim the two of them for ST/dungeon slice to see which is best for your build in which type of content you are interested in.

I just always use sharpening stones for all content because i can use agi pots. Shadow core oils/phantom fire pots are more expensive on my realm, and they are proc based.

Sharpening stones and agi pots are just straight up added Attack Power, not proc based.

[sharp star]

I’m looking at the sim APL patchwork and it appears your initial shiv is at zero combo points. SBS, slice,mut,gar,rup,vend,shiv.

Is that how most people are opening now?

[gusty mirage]

That would be a @balmy condor question, he’s the lord of the sin apl

[balmy condor]

Yeah that’s normal

[sharp star]

Thanks! Then in 2 target cleave it looks like you dot second target after the first shiv window expires. Sorry just new to reading the apl

[late birch]

Do you guys use Shadowstep on the Eye? and is it consistent ?

[real bay]

yes

just dont do it too early

[late birch]

do I get close to chain as possible while dps'ing and when it comes close I just step

coz I think i might've stepped too early and still got beamed

[balmy condor]

Correct, vend+shiv envenoms are worth more

[timid talon]

you step to the same place every time, no matter which direction the boss is facing

[balmy condor]

You don’t really need to read it per say, usually can just quick sim 1 target, 2 target, etc and look at the sample

[timid talon]

its like to the left a little if you're looking at him

[balmy condor]

The sample is typically good enough imo

[late birch]

you sure?

[sharp star]

Cool sounds good thanks.

[late birch]

feels like I stepped from the left once and ended up more on the right hand side

[timid talon]

im 100% sure

We tested it between pulls on mythic, its always the same spot lol

[dark jewel]

how did obedience became our new bis again? thought the sims after obedience nerf showed doomblade better

[late birch]

hmmm, oke ... so always in the middle and a bit to the left

thanks

[balmy condor]

They did not

This is one hell of a fever dream wtf

[timid talon]

its like right here lol

[balmy condor]

Obedience top sim in the pins for months, no one bats an eye

[late birch]

okay yeah then that definitely killed me, because I stepped from just a bit higher than that xD

[balmy condor]

Obedience top sim in the pins after a resim which doesn’t even change the balance

Everyone like what obedience how is that possible

[sand sigil]

wait can u actually step and not get killed? i was stepping teammates during prog cuz i just so happened to step there during heroic and procced cheat so i thought they made it so the back of the boss was where his eyebeam originated from at all times so ud always step straight into the beam

[timid talon]

yep

[sand sigil]

it'd be way easier if i just play around that circle lmfao

legendary

[spice spire]

[sharp star]

I was stepping our DK first beam and cloaking second. God damnit

[swift lodge]

Obedience is really better than Zoldyck for DSlice... that is insane...

There i was farming ash for a Zoldyck...

[pale plank]

I thought zoldyck is not good anymore

[teal bloom]

Zoldyck is the M+ legendary for everything but venthyr

[odd hazel]

How is it Insane

It’s been that way for months

[pale plank]

Oh, I am venthyr and from what I have seen people are going obedience if they are multi spec sub/sin and doomblade if they wanna stick to sin

[odd hazel]

Doom blade is only good for pure ST

[balmy condor]

Have you guys heard

There’s this venthyr legendary thing

Orangutan or something

Really good

[odd hazel]

Really? Does it give mastery or something

[timid talon]

HOW SWAY

[odd hazel]

Or vers

[balmy condor]

Apparently it’s the top legendary in the pins

[odd hazel]

Pins ?

[balmy condor]

Anyone know why?

[odd hazel]

What are those

[pale fossil]

That's interesting, but it require me to check the pins, so I'll take your word for it.

[cosmic wren]

!WA

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[winter vapor]

im just sad the necrolord legedary didnt make it out of the PTR in a good state, was gonna be fun trying a new leggo in m+

[strange python]

lol

[molten galleon]

In mutli Target do I still use Envenom or do I use CT ?

[balmy condor]

You ct to maintain the dot, rupture everything that lives long enough, envenom to refresh slice and dice, and if you can’t do any of that, you envenom to dump combo points

[molten galleon]

Okay thanks! 🙂

Can i refresh CT before it runs out like Rupture and Garrote ?

[balmy condor]

Yea, it works with pandemic like the others

In heavy aoe, you would want to refresh slightly before pandemic

[slow marsh]

Cuz vers with trink + set bonus = good?

[balmy condor]

Soleah’s with vers + obedience? Pog?

[wise flame]

The new faq section is good because no one reads pins.

[balmy condor]

No one gonna read faq either

[slow marsh]

You mean

[balmy condor]

[slow marsh]

Soleuhhhhhhhhhh

Is there a way to see the gear used for sims in pins?

[wise flame]

I think they will, they work in other discords, unless rogues are special 🤪

[fleet anchor]

Wait are you telling me Obedience is good?

https://tenor.com/view/surprised-pikachu-pokemon-shock-surprised-pikachu-gif-15357817

[warped temple]

orangubedience im p sure is what it's called

[balmy condor]

Dude idk it’s super weird. It was good, and then i resimmed it for set bonuses, and it’s STILL GOOD

[rapid forum]

is there any kind if doomblade cheese on the remnant orbs?

[strange python]

Talents:
3-3-2-0-0-2-1 - Single target (Blindside + Vigor can be okay if you're very undergeared, EP + Vigor can be okay if you're not playing obedience) ------ what if I am undergeared and not playing obedience?

am 216 now

[balmy condor]

Yeah that’s probably past the point of blindside vigor

Blindside vigor is like fresh 60, 200 ilvl, just got out of dungeons

[strange python]

ah okay

thanks

[plain thistle]

no way

[winged basin]

FAQ section was done really well @balmy condor good job can’t wait for people to not read that either tho

[pale plank]

Obedience simming higher than doomblade now?

F!

[quaint carbon]

FAQ pretty good gutted to discover off hand nm syl dagger better than 252 ?!

[cyan kite]

FAQ section is thanks for putting it together

[pale fossil]

^^^

[vestal chasm]

@balmy condor Thanks for all your efforts. I appreciate you.

[balmy condor]

I should add

if anyone thinks something should be included

like

literally anything at all

dm me and we can talk about it

[delicate root]

Anyone know how to handle this situation - I have shiv up with only enough time for 1 global press, and have 3cp - do I press a 3cp envenom or just do mutilate again?

[balmy condor]

shiv

oh

I read "I have shiv up" and I thought off cooldown

so I was like slam that shit

[delicate root]

shiv debuff is on the target, sorry

[balmy condor]

yeah

[delicate root]

😛

[balmy condor]

you would mutilate

[delicate root]

ok cool

[fresh kernel]

Is lethal poison conduit better over well placed steel for aoe or is equal due to boss fights in m+?

[mossy crown]

what are best powers to pick for Tarragrue?

[fresh kernel]

The poison cloud and heart Fang are top simming for DPS ones according some logs

Not sure if that is the actual name

[winged kindle]

Heart-Seeking Fang is really good

[fresh kernel]

Potent acid gland(poison cloud) lol

I was way off

[delicate root]

the fang is bonkers

[mossy crown]

oh I got none of those

[winged kindle]

Oddly Intangible Key provides 100% uptime outside of torment soaks

[fresh kernel]

Potent acid cloud and the gang are really good, same with howler but errotic howler can be very disruptive.

[mossy crown]

seems erratic howl is

[winged kindle]

Huddled carvings is really good if your healers are on point with fear dispels

[delicate root]

this - Blade of the Lifetaker
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/wjz1QRpFT9NgvDMb#fight=14&type=damage-done&source=29

and the acid gland seemed decent too

[fresh kernel]

How far ahead in terms of averages is outlaw ahead of sin in m+

[narrow ravine]

I checked the pins but does anyone have a ranking of the anima powers to pick for Tarragrue? I have some list from ptr testing but not sure how accurate it is

[hollow river]

^^

[narrow ravine]

pretty much the same as the PTR rankings

minus the samophlange

[winged basin]

obedience simming higher again ecks dee

did I miss a change or is it simply better at high gear levels

now im asking silly questions

[deep solstice]

The dream is real. Maim/mangle outsimming Well-placed steel. I dont have to feel as sad if I flub a shiv anymore.

[hollow river]

O.o

Doubt it will for me

252 well placed steel

[spice spire]

It was always better or close - afaik Doomblade was within the error right?

[hollow river]

[spice spire]

Conduit level isn’t that much dps iirc

But also mythic gamer

[deep solstice]

lol ya. I have them at 226 and the difference was only 32 dps

[hollow river]

Shhh

Let me have this !!!

[deep solstice]

I am mythic at not getting loot, conduits included.

[hollow river]

Bro I’m still 225 ilvl no UH/dps shards

This tier is gonna suck to gear

Reclearing normal and heroic... every week

How will my vault loot even work? Heroic only?

[deep solstice]

Well the other rogue in guild is already like BiS heroic geared + 252 dagger, so I should get some shit next week. Lotta the boomies had good luck too.

[narrow ravine]

its odd to me that the weekly vault ilevel for doing raids is the same level as the raid you are doing, m+ is still the best gear again

[deep solstice]

over a long timespan maybe

[hollow river]

Now if only I could do 10 keys a week

[soft shale]

tbh killing 3 bosses on m is not harder than sylv

[balmy condor]

#assassination message

Can read about 15 minutes of convo from there

[deep solstice]

idk my obe is 14 ilvls higher than my DB and DB still outsims by like 100 dps. def depends on your own gear.

[hollow river]

So which pinned sims are correct?

[deep solstice]

Those are all BiS loot with gem set bonuses. They are not incorrect.

[hollow river]

The newest I assume

[deep solstice]

They are just not what any of us have yet./

[hollow river]

Yeah ik

[balmy condor]

Yeh just got rid of the old one

[hollow river]

I read the little note on the top one