assassination

[ancient kraken]

Post logs if you want help

[distant flame]

Sure, just seems like the amount of auto attacks should be the same, is that wrong?

[haughty hollow]

It sims with buffs like windfury totem

And lust

[distant flame]

Ya, I have no buffs applied

[fallen arch]

So there you go

[distant flame]

Sorry, should clarify, I have the sim applying no buffs.

[strange python]

Delay flag on opener on the nine till garrotes on both I'm guessing?

[fallen arch]

Venthyr?

[distant flame]

Correct

[fallen arch]

Sim might have better flag usage so better haste buff

In a 5 minute practice that’s 3-5x flag depending on leggo

Also u might lose uptime because standing too far away/target swapping?

[distant flame]

Just standing behind a dummy and not moving so shouldn't be that, could see it as unoptimal flag usage though.

[fallen arch]

Also, the sim is a benchmark. Use it as such, you are a person and u can’t play like a robot

Keep that in mind

[distant flame]

For sure, only confused because missing ~65 autos seems like something I'm doing wrong

[balmy condor]

lies and slander 🤖

[distant flame]

But, unoptimal Flags could do that

[fallen arch]

Maybe u can

I know for a fact Cev can

[ancient kraken]

Just don’t compare, it doesn’t help you at all

[balmy condor]

I wish I could, I parse like garbage

[distant flame]

Appreciate the help regardless

[tribal marlin]

I think the wow PvE community is focusing on dps wayy too much

[fallen arch]

Well to be fair, it is an important metric

[thin trout]

???

this isn't vanilla lol, you acutally need to push yourself hard to kill bosses, especially early

[fallen arch]

I see what you mean, it’s all about the purple and the orange and the pink parses and that can take a bit of joy out of the game

[tribal marlin]

No it's not even about parses

in general in modern WoW, dps is vastly overated when in comes to progression

[fallen arch]

Partly true

[tribal marlin]

Especially, the dps you get from your personnal skills

[fallen arch]

You do need people tho that can do mechanics and press their buttons correctly at the same time

I ran with a group that ran mechanics correctly but were shit dps. Good luck killing bosses with that

I don’t have logs, but its horrible to be litteraly 4k ahead of the number 2 on the meters

[tribal marlin]

I mean, yes obviously you need to have a bit of knowledge on how to play your class in order to play wow competitively

But people focus on that way too much bro

[fallen arch]

As long as bosses die that’s true

[tribal marlin]

People don't know when to stop dps, don't know why they should stop dps and worst they don't stop dps even when their raid leader tell theim to.

People die to mechanics some times because they greed casts, when they already meet the dps requierement

People focus way too much on their dps when they already do damage correctly and should focus more on understanding the game

[fleet anchor]

I mean dead DPS < bad DPS 😛

But obviously for prog your tiers of raiders are:
Pump while doing mechanics > do mechanics while being so-so at DPS > pump DPS but mess up some mechanics due to greed ~= never mess up mechanics but lose tons of dps > padlords who die

😛

[tribal marlin]

Yeah but I'll even go deeper because

while this is totally true, it's only individual skills

[fleet anchor]

Mark of an excellent raider is knowing how to maximize DPS even given the negative constraints of a mechanic or fight

But that involves understanding the mechanics first and foremost

And optimizing around them

Not trying to find a way to fit mechanics into the optimal DPS rotation

[tribal marlin]

20 people playing together so-so > 20 exceptionnal individuals that doesn't comunicates

[fleet anchor]

Good raider says, "I have to do X, how do I optimize my CDs and positioning in order to do the most DPS before, after, and during X"

Bad raider says, "I'm blasting, I'll do X at the last possible moment and we'll see what happens"

[tribal marlin]

Good raider will says "I should deal with that mechanics at this moment, my CDs are down i'm not doing shit" and good raider n°2 should answer "well I usually delay my CD to deal with this mechanic so we ca maybe swap"

[fleet anchor]

The choice imo isn't really between doing mechanics OR doing DPS. Because both of those binary choices are wrong. It's about making sure you do the most damage you can within the constraints of executing the mechanics well.

There's people who fall on all sorts of the wrong extremes

[ancient kraken]

Doing mechanics is easy, high parsing is easy. Both together is da shit

[fleet anchor]

You get the people who will literally do like no damage because they are so laser focused on a mechanic and never really get comfortable with it

You get the people who tunnel on DPS and fuck mechanics and wipe the raid

I'd rather have the first than the second

But ideally you have someone who can do both decently

[tribal marlin]

For sure but even then

sometime as I said you have good players that are able to do all that

and yet the guild is performing poorly, because they don't understand some very important core concept about raiding

which is playing together

[fleet anchor]

Yeah this is certainly true

I mean a good example of that from a DPS perspective

[limpid plinth]

Raid group is as good as its worst player

[fleet anchor]

Sometimes the PERSONAL choice (on a parse run) is "I have circle around me, I'm going to stay in as long as people then run out, drop and shadowstep back"

Ok, that might actually be the optimal way to parse and you might be doing the mechanic ok

But sometimes that causes tons of problems for your fellow raiders

Because they don't know where you are moving, where they need to stand themselves, etc.

So understanding the needs of the raid is important too

[tribal marlin]

In that case the good raider will say immediately "I will not move get tf out of me"

😄

It's selfish and definitely shit, but it's still better than saying nothing ^^

[fleet anchor]

Like if you have something communicated to people that you are running late, trust I will get out, etc.

But just doing things blindly like that can be problematic

Can't just have a solo mentality

[tribal marlin]

and also from what I talked with people, discussing strategy, sharing idea, adjusting damage CDs usage over a fight blabla

[fleet anchor]

Fine in a heroic parse run but not so much in prog 😄

[tribal marlin]

is something they were missing as well

[fleet anchor]

I mean CD structuring in prog is very rarely for optimal DPS as much as DPS on the optimal things. Definitely can bring down overall damage but it's just how it goes.

[fallen arch]

‘The worst kind of raiders are Padlords who die’ - Kojiyama (2021)

[fleet anchor]

Eye a good example where 2m classes will skip an entire CD set but it will line up with everything important

Probably won't do that in parse runs later but for prog it's critical

[fleet anchor]

Dude this is more like Kojiyama (2005)

🤣

[soft shale]

time travel koji

[fallen arch]

Ah well

[fleet anchor]

I'm a boomer raid leader, been saying this shit for decades

lol

[fallen arch]

Did people pad already tho in 2005

[fleet anchor]

Yes

[fallen arch]

Yikes

[fleet anchor]

"Dead DPS don't"

😛

[fallen arch]

When there wasn’t even a wcl to worry about

[fleet anchor]

I mean damage meters was one of the first addons people made in WoW

It's not surprising lol

[tribal marlin]

But yeah anyway, for me what's make a player good is a player that understand deeply this things. A player that will take initiatives, share ideas spontaneously, to help the group kill the boss faster

[fallen arch]

Yes, but you dont want 19’of those in your group

[tribal marlin]

Once you get to that stage, doing damage and mechanics perfectly and consistently become trivial

[fallen arch]

The ones that share ideas spontaneously I mean

[fleet anchor]

I think having engaged people is always good. Not everyone will have an answer to every problem. It's important to have a variety of viewpoints

Raid leaders usually have an idea going in but no one person knows everything

[fallen arch]

By the way

[fleet anchor]

Iteration between pulls is very important

[fallen arch]

Wtf is going on with one of the unholy shards

[tribal marlin]

Yeah but again I don't blame people. Sometimes they think the wrong way because they are inside a social sphere that push theim to think the wrong way, if you see what I mean

[fallen arch]

I have been ninjapulling left and right with it

[fleet anchor]

It procs from healing

[fallow otter]

@balmy condor when I was watching wf race I got reminded of you

[fleet anchor]

We have constant healing procs

It has a 1 minute ICD and just AoE pulls shit

You can track the ICD

[fallen arch]

So if I stand stealth next to boss

[balmy condor]

but why

[fallen arch]

And I use vial pre pull

[fallow otter]

Meerez hair

[balmy condor]

oh

[fleet anchor]

It'll trigger just from stealth or SnD

[fallen arch]

Fuck that

That’s just plain stupid

[fleet anchor]

It's only worth like 0.5% DPS so

Either stay further than 8y

[tribal marlin]

triggers from Tricks

[fleet anchor]

Get an ICD tracker

Or swap it

[fallen arch]

It’s the only one I have currently

[tribal marlin]

I just macro tricks on my SoD

and it trigger it consistantly every mn

[fallen arch]

But I will get it out, it gives me nerves

[fleet anchor]

Yeah it was not very well thought out

[fallen arch]

I wrecked a key with it

[fleet anchor]

Should only trigger in combat

[fallen arch]

Yeah

That’s what I thought

[tribal marlin]

it trigger outside of combat for me

[fallen arch]

Yes it does

[tribal marlin]

when I tricks my tank

[fleet anchor]

Well I mean it shouldn't

[fallen arch]

Thats the problem

[tribal marlin]

oh yeah

[fleet anchor]

If they set it up right 😛

[tribal marlin]

it fucks the iCD

[fallen arch]

Will they fix that u think?

[fleet anchor]

Possible

If more people get it, I think it'll be obvious

Healers probably will use it at some point too

[fallen arch]

Yeah and they will be ninjapulling

[tribal marlin]

I wonder how much it scales with rank of the shard

0.5% on my pulls was with rank 1

I have 3 blood shard ready as well

it isn't bad tbh

[soft shale]

i have it at rank 3

and does sometimes from 0.5-1.2

crit rng and obedience etc

[tribal marlin]

i c

if I get the chest out of nhc run i'll play blood anyway

and if I get any other piece I'll play triple dps shard xD

[slow marsh]

I'm looking like I'm playing blood as soon as I get 3rd to drop next week

Just cleared norm again tonight and no lootz. Must mean it'll all drop for me in heroic tomorrow right ?

:pepeclown-1:

[fallow otter]

Im afraid not

If you mean shards

[slow marsh]

Na not shards

I'm done with those till next week

Just loots in general

[fallow otter]

Glgl

[timid talon]

Was the nightly sim updated to fix obedience oversimming? does anyone know

[slow marsh]

Yeah

It accidentally got reverted to pre nerf but it's fixed now

[open aspen]

So, if i kill The nine on say heroic and i don't get a shard drop. I can't go to normal or lfr, kill it, to get another chance at dropping right? thats how that works?

[timid talon]

Correct

its once per boss, doesnt matter the difficulty

[open aspen]

Okay, that's shit hahaha

[gray pond]

What should I do to get “Memory of the Obedient”? I am at renown 48

[timid talon]

the campaign quest gives it to you

[modest jasper]

If you are 48 this week you should already have it in your bag :-)

[sudden mason]

Hey, i am new playing rogue... is assa the best spec for leveling?

[spring root]

Assa is not really good for leveling cos you dont have your passive early to get energy regen, you should consider other 2 spec and if you gone do dg while leveling outlaw is nice i think

If you gone do questing sub is also really nice

[sudden mason]

Okay thx :)

[timid talon]

outlaw is far more forgiving while leveling than assassination

[knotty saffron]

Hi, i'm a little Lost, what leg IS the best for raid ? Obediance or blood ? I've 235 obediance back, and 190 blood on chest, do i have to mount blood or craft on other stuff ?

[balmy condor]

blood?

as in bloodfang?

[low girder]

bloodfang doesn't go on chest

so i'm very confused

[balmy condor]

neither does doomblade

[knotty saffron]

Doomblade

[south belfry]

Yes doomblade

[knotty saffron]

Maybe leg i dont remmember

[south belfry]

???

What are you asking

I dont understand the question

[knotty saffron]

Sorry my english not good

What the best for raid, doomblade or obediance ?

[south belfry]

Doomblade

[knotty saffron]

And the slot appropriate?

[south belfry]

Cape

[knotty saffron]

Ok thx

[spark patrol]

hey
Im wondering as assa should i use skills as soon as I have energy for them, or keep some energy to be able to cast several spells?
outside vendeta it feels like u are always in an energy shortage 🙂 Really weird felling after outlaw 😄

[wind sun]

So i'm seeing a lot of conflicting results. I switched to Venth From Nightfae, but i see a lot of Sin rogues Going Necro. How big of a difference between these are there really

[stuck zenith]

Personally I always safe up energy before shiv comes up to get max amount of envenoms out during it.

[empty tangle]

Why are more people using doomblades over obedient?

[south belfry]

[spark patrol]

we dont have obidient yet, no?

[limpid plinth]

Just pool for envenom

No need to pool for shiv

[bright turret]

Necro is going to be really strong this tier because almost every fight has adds

[spark patrol]

so when u have 4 combopoints and shiv about to cd
u stop using spells and let ur energy fill in?

[lean coral]

got it this week

if you're caught up on renown

[bright turret]

I imagine it's better in M+ because of that too

[spark patrol]

yeah I play necro because it's so much better for M+ outlaw
and it's okayish for sin in raid

[wind sun]

Makes sense. Would just hate having to switch after grinding all that renown. Think i'll just end up playing Venth

[bright turret]

necro is barely behind anything else in ST, and takes off the moment you have adds, it's more than okayish in raid

[limpid plinth]

You just pool for normal envenoms and allways just slam shiv on cd even at max cp

[wind sun]

Are we switching to Doomblade now or playing with the obidient

[bright turret]

they're about the same and doomblade is much simpler to use

obed would be for if you play ass/sub

[young nacelle]

I think the consensus for obed is that it has its moments, but doomblade is ultimately the play

I run obed just fine

[slow marsh]

Obed has niche uses based on timers but doomblade blasts with no requirements necessary

[bright turret]

obed also has the drawback of being interupted or sat on if a mechanic is coming

you're importing a sub problem for no gain

[slow marsh]

Yep

[balmy condor]

I’ve never seen a more cursed sentence in my life

[wind sun]

From the sims i didn't see any significant difference. But was thinking of playing Sin/Sub so i'll prob end up getting and using both

[slow marsh]

Yes you have

Obedience is fun there's that

[balmy condor]

Obed downtime
Importing sub downtime “problem”

That’s shit

Is gold rated shitposting

[slow marsh]

😆😆😆😆😆

[bright turret]

how so

[balmy condor]

Pure injection of feelcraft nonsense

Into my fucking veins

[slow marsh]

Well

[pseudo hamlet]

So... eventually Doomblade > Obedience in raids?
And what about M+? Is Zoldyck better than Obed?

[slow marsh]

You know how the channel goes during EU time

[bright turret]

im curious how its feelcraft

[shell ivy]

I think ppl overthink too much about it when sims already show there isn’t much diff, only thing that should be taken into consideration is how obed would “help” with the fight timers/mechanics so that your cds line up the most useful moments

[bright turret]

constant mechanics hurts sub quite a bit compared to assassination, that isn't really feelcraft

[pseudo hamlet]

@slow marsh I did check the pins. The sims are showing Obedience in both M+ and Raiding, but people are crafting Doomblade... and their sims are also showing that DB > Obed.

[slow marsh]

Pins don't show obedience for raid

[balmy condor]

Because this whole downtime thing is already overblown as fuck, and obedience is more flags, which means mechanics hurt it less than having less flags. Compared to doomblade, sure, whatever, but then fire mage combust, and vendetta, and flag, and literally every cooldown in the game is just instant rip because oh no mechanics

[pseudo hamlet]

Pins are showing either ST and Dungeonslice, they're also showing Vers/Crit on the cloak instead of Haste/Crit(which are best for Assa I think?)
I have no idea what to think about it.

[balmy condor]

Mechanics happen

Unfucking lucky

[slow marsh]

Whisp it's ok

[balmy condor]

You’re going to get shit on regardless

[slow marsh]

I forgive you

[bright turret]

ok i didnt say obedience isn't unplayable or something

just that there will be timings that devalue it

[slow marsh]

For flagging before sod

[bright turret]

doomblade does not have that issue

[slow marsh]

The poor guy doesn't know what he's talking about

Save him your wrath

[bright turret]

also if other CDs get scuffed, their CD stays the same

Sub CDs getting scuffed makes the CDs longer

Doesnt make it unplayable or anything, but it is a weakness sub has

[balmy condor]

Out of curiosity

How much of a weakness do you think it is in a rough %

Say if you have to move

[bright turret]

depends on the severity

[balmy condor]

Every 30 seconds

[limpid plinth]

I would trust 100% on whispyrs sims he eats and sleeps on sims

[balmy condor]

5%?

[bright turret]

like with sylv, if you didnt greed 3rd phase and moved veil and screm out

[balmy condor]

10%?

[bright turret]

5%sh I'd say

[balmy condor]

And how much do you think that hurts sin

[slow marsh]

4.999999

Cuz monkableeds

[fallen fable]

@balmy condor can u please check DM when u catch some time. I sent you message few days ago.

[balmy condor]

So true

[balmy condor]

Hm, must’ve missed it hold on

[bright turret]

so using sylv as an example to what I mean

there were constant overlaps where symbols and ance were ready, but a move out mechanic was coming in 4 seconds

so I had to sit on them alot

[pseudo hamlet]

I trust him with every cell of my body, he helped me so many times. 😄
Was just wondering why Vers/Crit instead of Haste/Crit - if there's some kind of treshold with the BIS gear(from sims) or something?
And tbh I'd like to have one legendary for every possible content I do(Raiding + M+), but I just saw a few people simming Doomblade higher, which is weird.

[bright turret]

because if you don't get full value of SD, you've raised the CD of your next SD

[slow marsh]

It's vers crit for dual use to play sub

[bright turret]

Ass you have to worry about what? Losing a few seconds of shiv? It's still coming back in 24 seconds

[slow marsh]

@pseudo hamlet

If you want legit one leggo for all content just play obed it's fine

[pseudo hamlet]

That explain it! But shouldn't we use the highest possible results for the sims?

[balmy condor]

Did you overcap on charges?

[bright turret]

nah

[limpid plinth]

Its prolly vers crit because it just sims higher and doomblade just sims higher on pure st and obe is the go to all around lege

[bright turret]

i did have to hold dance symbols and flag a few times

[slow marsh]

Crit vers is just as good as crit haste

[bright turret]

like when raze was lining up with them

[balmy condor]

It’s just really not that big of a deal man

[dry root]

could some one tell me what i can improve with my assa? 🙂

[slow marsh]

Also you're questioning if the Sims are minmaxed when you are refusing to minmax so it's pointless anyways

[olive tendon]

Guys, I have mixed feelings about Obedience. Did you already craft it and test in practice?
I was doing SoD [hc] yesterday's evening with Obedience and I had a problem with cooldowns.
In theory, it should fit perfectly because of reducing CD on Flagellation to 60s so you can use one more Flagellation before Vendetta and have another one just in time for Vendetta. The problem lays in... practice. If you play Assassination then you know that it's generally impossible to reach 30 CP-Flagellation. Sometimes, I had to wait ~30s with Vendetta because my Flagellation was still on CD.
So there are my question:

1. Is it even worth to use (Obedience)? Sims are sims but you all know that bosses aren't dummies in Orgrimmar.
2. If it is worth to use - should I always wait for Flagellation with my Vendetta?

[bright turret]

it isnt going to be -30, because the conduit lashes dont count towards the CD

[balmy condor]

[limpid plinth]

If it does not line i would just slam it

[slow marsh]

I'm sorry whisp

[pseudo hamlet]

I didn't say that I don't want to min/max. Even if I did - it doesn't matter at all. Just because one person don't want to min/max it doesn't mean the sims shouldn't do it.

[slow marsh]

I'm trying where I can

[pseudo hamlet]

I just said that I'd like to have one legendary for all possible content, because that would be more comfy. 😛

[slow marsh]

The Sims do do it though and you can click the link in the pins to see it yourself. Your answer is craft obedience

[balmy condor]

I’m gonna start telling everyone to play dashing man

[slow marsh]

If you want it with crit haste then go for it

[balmy condor]

I can’t anymore

[fading mason]

How good is the Hardmode neck as assa I have an 226 w socket

[limpid plinth]

Obed is the way you should go 100%

[slow marsh]

50 haste vs 50 vers literally doesn't matter

[balmy condor]

It’s faster, better on aoe, and completely passive

Dashing gogogo

[burnt latch]

Ohhh whisp do u have data for this? How long is it worth holding vendetta / flag for them to line up any breakpoints? Or is it literally just that as long as u dont miss a cast u can wait for them to line up

[bright turret]

where's the zoldyk love at

[limpid plinth]

As long as you dont lose a cast

[bright turret]

need it for that sylvanas execute

[balmy condor]

You can pretty safely sync every other

[limpid plinth]

I think

[balmy condor]

But yes

If you don’t lose a cast

Is the rule

[slow marsh]

@olive tendon do you not already hold flag for 2nd cast?

For 30 seconds

[burnt latch]

Aye, figured as much. Sometimes i play like a dog and get scuffed 15 stacks flags

Which sucks with obedience

[slow marsh]

Don't press flag until cp capped or -1

Problem solved

[olive tendon]

Of course I wait with my Flagellation for Vendetta. But now, with Obedience it's the opposite - I had to wait with my Vendetta for Flagellation.

[burnt latch]

Nah it doesnt work when youre a dumb dumb like me and ignore mechanic timers

[pseudo hamlet]

Sure thing, will do.
Was just wondering if there's was some kind of reason other than "because it's good for both sub/assa".

[fading mason]

What stats would you craft obediance if you want to use ist as assa and sub?

[balmy condor]

Crit vers

[slow marsh]

[slow marsh]

Then you maybe biffed your 2nd flag cast idk

[olive tendon]

For example, on my yesterday's kill on Guardian - the boss died when I got my Vendetta. I would get it earlier if I didn't have to wait for Flagellation before. That's the reason I have mixed feelings about Obedience.

Using one fewer Vendetta during the fight is painful.

[slow marsh]

What was your kill time ?

You never hold vendetta anyways so that's what I mean

You maybe just played it wrong

[olive tendon]

4:35

[balmy condor]

So vend at 0/2/4 and flag at 0/2/4?

How did you miss a cast

[bright turret]

he prob flagged/vendetta'd at 2:20sh

and flagged at 1:10sh

[olive tendon]

I missed a cast because I had to wait with previous Vendetta for my Flagellation. It's generally Obedience-talking if you missed it. 😉

[bright turret]

last I looked the sim held vendetta for flag, but maybe that's old

[balmy condor]

Oh it’s obed

[slow marsh]

Yeah

[bright turret]

it's just an unfortunate window you'd have to know ahead of time

[balmy condor]

Yeah then I guess you could’ve gotten fucked

[limpid plinth]

Do you think you would do less dps on that fight if you would just slam both on cd?

[slow marsh]

Not really

[limpid plinth]

Because now you lost a cast of vendetta

[bright turret]

just be lazy and play doomblade

[limpid plinth]

Or just push everything on cd 😄

[olive tendon]

I know, right?! That's why I'm frustrated. I feel like there's literally no point using Obedience in Assassination. I don't feel it. On sims Doomblade does similar numbers but it's a brain-dead legendary.

[bright turret]

well you cant say that isnt how ass works anyways

[slow marsh]

I had 4:30 kill time and casted vendetta 3 times flag 4 times with obed

[bright turret]

Obedience is really for sub/ass, if you are dedicated ass, no reason not to use doomblade

[olive tendon]

The thing is I'm not lazy at all. I'm also rather a good player and I want the highest numbers of course. But I feel like Obedience is trolling me.

[bright turret]

oh i was just shitposting when I said that

[olive tendon]

😄

[bright turret]

I agree in that there's really no point playing obedience as sin when doomblade exists

unless you are playing sub as well

[limpid plinth]

Just join us stinky bois and enjoy life

[bright turret]

the chad sin play is to just go necro

[limpid plinth]

Yep i love it

[olive tendon]

🙂

[limpid plinth]

Got rank 4 on hc painsmith yesterday as stinky boy

[bright turret]

this raid has soooo many SBS opportunities

screw that extra 1-2% pure ST

[limpid plinth]

And didnt even feel like i played it good tbh

[north basin]

so i came into conclusion if u on farm with excellent knowledge of ur guild kill/mechanics timers go obe in sub for logs. if not go doomblade assa xDD

[bright turret]

not necessarily

some fights like eye are going to straight up favor ass

we still don't know what last 3 mythic bosses will look like

heroic sylvanas has some issues with sub, who knows what mythic will be

[north basin]

right now sbs + doomblade combo looks stonks, coz in real fights u can mess up flag usage (

lets see twitch progress meanwhile xD

[bright turret]

yea i think necro sin is being a bit underestimated

[limpid plinth]

It really is and feels so much better to use

[bright turret]

can't go wrong with just hitting everything on CD

[north basin]

i think i made right move to hold jumping on venthyr back train xD and still necro

[bright turret]

and SbSing random adds

[left plaza]

i really love necro sin cause u can get 100% critchance in ur burst window.

[limpid plinth]

I jumped on venthyr and when obed was nerfed i jumped straight back to necro 😂

[left plaza]

feels amazing

[north basin]

wdym 100% critchance?XD

[limpid plinth]

Gemstone ftw

[left plaza]

32% base crit + heirmir 18% + MA talent 50%

and heirmir procs every minute so... 1 time without burst and the other with ur cds

[north basin]

well right before heimir 18% crit u can have some runaway mechanics. but anyway 30+50 looks good . agree

[raven vapor]

is there a way to sim the so'leah trinket?

[left plaza]

ofc im playing venth right now cause i really love that covenant, but necrolord have a place in my heart during 9.0.5

[left plaza]

I did the same question yerterday, idk if simc are using haste or crit

on that trink

[raven vapor]

yeah would be useful to know if i gain more from 100 crit or haste, my weights are towards crit but it's minor

[left plaza]

i normally use it to balance haste and crit, 800 crit 700 haste so i use so´leah and i have 800 in both stats

[cinder yoke]

anyone know if you shadowstep balls on painsmith if it puts you behind them or just murders you?

[olive tendon]

You will die.

[left plaza]

kills u

[cinder yoke]

alright thanks

meant to check twice this week but my brain too smooth

[olive tendon]

That was one of the first things I checked on this boss. My guild wasn't happy. 😛

[cinder yoke]

always gotta call out the science

"gonna try something, might die"

[north basin]

just shadowstep on tank xD when he is behind balls

[cinder yoke]

yea i figured there was a super low chance it would work

[rustic whale]

You ll die

[muted linden]

did they change something on Necro ? Bloodmallet says Necro is as good as Venthyr now... this wasnt the Case a few day ago if i Remember correctly

i Mean i Like it i really hate the venthyr Playstyle

[timber sage]

come to the dark side

[modest jasper]

No changes.
No idea what Bloodmallet sims, check the Pins for proper ones.

If you prefer Necro over Venthyr, go for Necro unless you are raiding in RWF which, based on you being here right now instead of progressing on Painsmith Mythic is probably not what you do ;-)

Necro is 2.4% behind. It's literally whatever.

[dry void]

more like necrolol'd

[wanton creek]

If gold isn’t a massive issue am I as well crafting 225 doom blade until I have resources for higher or should I just wait

[wide hawk]

depends on how long you'd have to wait, doomblade is always an excellent investment

[lavish isle]

everyday ppl are changing minds first Obedience then doomsblade

[limpid plinth]

Just leave em vampire weirdos and join us necrolords

[whole skiff]

What does sbs mean?

[limpid plinth]

Should be general guideline that if you struggle choosing between obed or doom just come to necro fam

[limpid plinth]

Necrolord ability

Serrated bone spike

[whole skiff]

Ah

[limpid plinth]

Aka BiS

[small nymph]

Can I get some help looking at a log? Trying to figure out how to become "better" 😅

[limpid plinth]

Ceverion is the man at looking logs but might be busy owning ingame rn

[north basin]

btw bloodmallet now lists fusion amplifier as top trinket, finally xD

but only on mythic version unfortunatly. 95% of people wont have it in 2 months,

[small nymph]

Ahh, whelp here's the log in question.
From a few days ago on Guardian. I had some unlucky mechanic timings but other than that I feel like I've should've done more.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/mRFNZACxvTHXwJnj/#fight=17&type=damage-done&source=1

[limpid plinth]

Im at mobile atm so cant really look into it but did you have 100% uptime on garrote and rupture

Did you press shiv on cd?

[small nymph]

97% uptime on them

Shiv cast 12 times, missed it a few times then

Or 🤔

Flagellation, Vendetta on CD, missed 2 casts of Vanish

[limpid plinth]

On cds you can hold shiv for up to 10sec if vendetta is coming up then you vendetta shiv vanish

You allways wanna use vanish with vendetta

[olive tendon]

Something's wrong or Dashing Scoundrel just became the best legendary for Assassination?
I'm on bloodmallet and it's top#1 on Hectic Add Cleave somehow and it's top#2 on single target (with almost the same value as top#1 - Obedience).

[primal turret]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[rose violet]

good old hectic add cleave

never disappoints

[ebon notch]

am i supposed to buy a bunch of anima items before i swap covenant?

[primal turret]

Should i keep flagelation 30 seconds to line up with vendeta/vanish?

[bleak sun]

Only if you dont lose a cast

[primal turret]

okey

[glad siren]

sorry i'm a bit derpy, "only if you don't lose a cast" so ... at the end of the fight it's okay because it won't be coming up again or ?

[violet hemlock]

well depends on the setting, but when progging a fight after a few pulls you'll get a good idea of fight length and u can look at those places ur cooldowns are close together and start syncing them knowing u wont lose a cast

[dim temple]

I am on my way!

[violet hemlock]

but if its a fight where u have no clue of fight length, ye syncing the last use makes sense

[glad siren]

okay, ty. I've always held for the 2 min cd's all together. 😦

[violet hemlock]

😦

only time u hold is if it doesn't miss a cast or you'll have low uptime in the buff due to mechanics

[sudden obsidian]

Hey Guys quick question, when should i play Deeper Stratagem over Vigor in sIngle Target?

[limpid plinth]

When it sims more 😄

[sudden obsidian]

my bad 😄

[finite heart]

what do you guys use to track ruptures and garrotes easily on multiple targets?

[limpid plinth]

Plater with pandemic glow

[glad siren]

i've never had vigor sim better than DS

[finite heart]

thx will have a look

[limpid plinth]

Np i think ceverions plater profile is quite popular for that

[glad siren]

oh nice, ty for the question and the answer, i had no idea.

[lusty bane]

I'm having a hard time getting my logs up to 75+. When I compare with the top Assa we basically have the same killtimes, rotation, covenant och trinkets. But the dps could differ 1500-2000dps on the same bossfight, without any PIs. What I mostly see are my secondary stats are way off (where the other rouges have around 250+ more haste and crit than me). Could those secondary stats really do that much?

[drifting cloud]

No

[minor wigeon]

well with 13-15% haste im struggle and have alot of downtime

[thin gate]

Guys whats atm a good gold/ H Method ? Ma twink is on a different server and i cba to buy gold tokens (new leggos aint cheap tho)

[glad siren]

habaneroz ... are you taking into consideration mechanics that you might be getting targeted for? if i have to step out for some time for mechanics my logs tank.

[lusty bane]

Nah when comparing we usually have the same uptime, but they usually can have around 120 envenoms where I have 90. Same goes for melee where they have around 150+ more "casts"

[odd hazel]

if they have THAT much more melees then you

they are on the boss more

if you link logs it'll be easier to see

[lusty bane]

I'm comparing with Nerzul. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/rx3CfXvQVdKa7D26#fight=39&type=damage-done&source=1 I'm not assigned for any mechanics for this fight and never got the big dispell balls either

[odd hazel]

what top sin player are you talking about?

[lusty bane]

eeehm

wait

[lusty bane]

This for example https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/c8AYpHPdnQZL2Fjr#fight=4&type=damage-done&source=8

[odd hazel]

( well some minor things first )
You wasted 8 CP on mut
2 on garrote
8 on SBS

You wasted a LOT of energy.

your EP buff uptime is very low ( 71% )

your envenom buff uptime is low.

To note you on that other log you just linked:

You missed some of your envenoms, as he did not.
He wasted way less energy then you
he has 100+ melees on you, which he was ALWAYS on the boss. there was a hot second that you were not.
his evenom uptime is a lot bette rthen yours, he also used BS/DS which is better for ST fights ( seems he stayed on the main target more then not )

[inner chasm]

so what is our best leggo then if its no longer obedience

[odd hazel]

Doom for pure ST/Obedience for M+

[inner chasm]

dam good old doom is still number one

[fading wigeon]

If you care about multi specxing obedience is fine . The different in st is so small looking at whispers sims in pin

[inner chasm]

guess I should have stayed a necro boy

[odd hazel]

necro is fine

im not sure how you got doom is still number one for that

[lusty bane]

Thanks for the suggestions. So more careful when spending CP so they dont go over 5. How can you "fix" the wasted energy? Almost always feel energystarved when vendetta isn't used

[finite heart]

think wasted energy translates to capping energy so weird that you feel starved most of the time?

[odd hazel]

yeah, only way you waste energy is if you sit energy capped.

or you're putting bleeds on a basically dead enemy

[lusty bane]

Yah It's like the GCD is keeping me from using envenoms from time to time. But will look into that. Thanks for the suggestions!

[cosmic prism]

why does obedience sim for almost the same as doomblade but there are barely any obedience logs near the top for sin?

[storm hedge]

Mby noone crafted it yet? Because its been out for just a few days

[odd hazel]

its only the first week

im sure more and more will pop up

[burnt star]

Ya

[inner chasm]

or maybe ppl think its a waste to craft it I have been checking the logs and wondering the same. Also the ppl that I noticed using it switched back to using doomblade

[harsh anchor]

Because gang

[young jacinth]

how come there no theo sim for zold?

[inner chasm]

I am starting to consider going back necro

[young jacinth]

is it just real bad? xD

[odd hazel]

just sim it my guy. its better for M+ for me but only 70 less for pure ST

100% not a waste if you play both sub and sin

or if you just want to be lazy and use the one leggo

if you want to play necro go for it

[gusty mirage]

because if you're venthyr, obedience sims better than zold

the sims in the pins would be ridiculously long if Whispyr simmed every single possible set up

[shadow pivot]

obedience assa doesn't feel good

you cant pull 30 stacks every flagel so it doesnt' reduce flagel by 30 seconds but instead 22-25

so it doesn't line up with vendetta

[high nacelle]

anyone got a sim comparing unholy and blood sets to hand?

[shadow pivot]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/wXbPGRZA4fo2CSqo7vnMy9 done as sub but i don't think sin would be different

[high nacelle]

thanks, some blood set players in raid seem to be getting so much value

[shadow pivot]

blood seems not too far under

[strange silo]

Hey guys how is 6.1k overall in 16 SoA as sin rogue?

[north basin]

bad xD

but rly it depends on ur gear

and pulls and and and

etc xD

[fair void]

why do you put strength on your hands?

[north basin]

probably coz he can

strong rogue better than weak

!

[manic pebble]

Does it do anything?

[fallen arch]

Ilvl?

[strange silo]

sadge then :d but we did some weird pulls it was a pug group

230

[teal bloom]

Daggers are so big nowadays so it's good to have strength to wield them

[fallen arch]

Then it’s not great

Could be way better, even with weird pulls

Did you die a lot?

[strange silo]

1x on big trash pull and 1 time on boss ye

[fallen arch]

How in the world

9.5k whaaat

[south belfry]

I fucking hate that i basically need 2 item sets as rogue to do both m+ and raids

[fallen arch]

Best dps increase is stop dieing

[shadow pivot]

the str on hand is purely for OCDs, no value at all

[fallen arch]

What talents did you run?

[strange silo]

i got clapped by imbued wep in the trash pull and on boss the tank died xd

2 2 1 2 2 2 3

[fair void]

thank you

[spice spire]

Unholy shards + good MH and decent trinkets.

Set bonus kinda deece

[fallen arch]

Yeah but holy fuck

[shadow pivot]

yea I got pretty lucky with the vault/tazavesh shit

[spice spire]

Hey, we take those

[fallen arch]

I am 231 and i sim 7.2k

[plain thistle]

unholy set alone should be something like 300-400dps

those trinket are also really nice

[spice spire]

Wait I thought it did more

But yeah the trinkets are actually disgustingly good

[inner chasm]

@strange silo hard to take your serious with that avatar man

[shadow pivot]

Tazavesh trinket is also way stronger on assa than sub for some reason

[fallen arch]

Also

[shadow pivot]

closed the gap between my 2 specs by quite a big margin

[plain thistle]

yeah, not sure about the exact numbers, but I got something like that with frost set for assa, unholy should be a little bit better

[north basin]

anyone did theoreticall sims 2 sylv heroic daggers vs 252 daggers?

[azure bronze]

unholy set was almost a 9% increase for me in my sub gear

[fallen arch]

Get your stupid sub sims outta here

[azure bronze]

around 700-800 dps

[plain thistle]

jesus, yeah, unholy for sub is even better then

[odd hazel]

sad that the sack is less then phial for me

i wanted it to be better

[north basin]

but i saw logs sack did 9% of damage. phial can come close to it?

[odd hazel]

simmed it compared to a phial, it does less for me.

sack is fine yes.

[shadow pivot]

i have 10min+ fights of sylvanas from yesterday where sack is 4% and the next pull it's 6%

Kinda rng too

[honest needle]

whats best leggo for assasiantion for raid and what slot, i think im gonan switch to venther, but i also play outlaw for keys so i kinda wanna go necro, this sucks

i cant decide

[north basin]

i mean without sim. in real world, u saw sack doing less than phial?

[spice spire]

This is a question answered in the pins!

To actually all of the questions

[shadow pivot]

4th pull, sack above Fusion amp 239

the very next pull

[fallen arch]

Can you show your damage breakdown?

[shadow pivot]

Sack dogshit

it does feel very rng to be

because you have to consider sack is 105 mastery instead of agi

[fallen arch]

It looks like it too

[north basin]

the fight sample above 1million damage?

done by u

[honest needle]

@spice spire so doomblade i see people see to be using more but what slot ? and haste crit is best ?

[shadow pivot]

They're both 10+min Sylvanas records

[burnt star]

The 9.5 sim is done with unholy set rank 5 though. And that show 1200 dps increase

[north basin]

kk good

[strange silo]

@fallen arch

[spice spire]

On cloak - it doesn’t mess with our domination sockets that way, and yeah haste crit good stats

[odd hazel]

thats not how that works.

[fallen arch]

Looks like you need to press CT wayyy more

[honest needle]

@spice spire im still nightfae for now is doomblade still good if im nightfae for now and do u think obedience is a better choice to craft i dont have much gold

[north basin]

u can have some trinket go up by quite a bit overnight just coz simcrafters add some missed line or something) they are humans too

[fallen arch]

Aso take necrotic, not volcanic

[north basin]

so i prefer logs+ sims.

[odd hazel]

Yes, but currently phial sims higher for me.

[north basin]

k

[odd hazel]

sims show whats good for you

you should follow them

theres a reason we always say

"sim it"

[honest needle]

?

[north basin]

i know general guidelines )

[strange silo]

oh ok really even in kick/interrupt heavy dungeons?

[north basin]

and i know how sims can change too, coz mistakes etc

[fallen arch]

Yes

[spice spire]

If you’re going venthyr, then yes you should craft obedience if you’re on a budget because it’s good all around. NF is currently the worst covenant choice; however, just keep to whatever you want on that.
If you’re NF, Doomblade is still the best single target legendary with Zoldyck’s being your m+ choice

[fallen arch]

Let one of your range dps take the volcanic

[spice spire]

If you do thicc pulls volcanic gains GIGA stonks this week

[honest needle]

@spice spire id be playing outlaw for m+ but i cant decide if iw ant doomblade or obedience i will eventually switch to venther.

[spice spire]

I don’t hate the volcanic pick up ngl

[strange silo]

alright so overall press more ct and pick necrotic? and hope to get good pugs with not much chain pulls xd

[fallen arch]

I don’t want big pulls with inspiring

Also I don’t want them on sin

[honest needle]

@spice spire also since im still nightfae im gonna use dreamweaver for now with prolly doomblade but can some 1 give me opener with doomblade leggo and best raid talent choices.

[tacit bay]

Stupid basic rotation question: It is recommended to pool energy before envenom - this is because we want to get more Mutilates out in the envenom buff window, correct? If you play with EP, do you try to get another envenom in the EP window, or is it better to wait for the envenom buff to finish, assuming you increase overall envenom uptime?

[fallen arch]

Yes, altho chain pulling shouldn’t make that much of a difference

[spice spire]

AHHH. Well I’d you’re doing sin/outlaw Necrolord boys are usually the go to, but venthyr is also super fine.
I’d probably go obedience since you can use it on both sin and outlaw 🙂

[spice spire]

That’s beta talk chief, kicks are a healer mechanic 😛

[fallen arch]

😅

[spice spire]

I had an absolute mess of an SD last night where I had raid talents and Doomblade on and volcanic carried me to a 7.2 😛

Because our healer JUST KEPT PULLING. But he kept up

[fallen arch]

Until you are the draining fluids target

[spice spire]

So

[honest needle]

@spice spire u have a site that gives me best opener for sin raid with both leggos obedience and doomblade so i can see the different openers. I havent play sin in a long time

[spice spire]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[spice spire]

🙂

[honest needle]

@spice spire u think necro is a better choice ? i was gonna go venth cause it seems alot easier for outlaw and alot less streessful

[fallen arch]

The whole 3% carried you there

[manic pebble]

!opener

[spice spire]

Pulls were very big, it was closer to 12%

[fallen arch]

Necro

[manic pebble]

!rotation

[shadow pivot]

also very minor question but

[fallen arch]

It’s so much more fun

[shadow pivot]

do yall know which spell triggers the gem?

[odd hazel]

mut - snd - mut - garrote - vendetta - flag - rupture - shiv/vanish - mut - envenom - mut

[fallen arch]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[spice spire]

If you’re looking for easier entry point, venthyr definitely the play. Both are solid options for outlaw/sin

[honest needle]

@fallen arch even tho rotation for outlaw m+ is alot harder for necro

[manic pebble]

With MA and DS right

[odd hazel]

yeah

[spice spire]

Should be every spell, right

[fallen arch]

Yeah but Outlaw is not for the faint hearted

[manic pebble]

But is that okay to do with EP and Vigor?

[honest needle]

@spice spire ok well if i do go necro does necro have a seprate soulbind for each outlaw and sin so i dont have to use the same for both

[manic pebble]

Or there’s a different opener for that

[fallen arch]

Whether you’re necro or venthyr, outlaw is frantic either way

[odd hazel]

you would just finish at 4 instead of 5. but yes

[shadow pivot]

i don't know what they refer to with "helpful spells", and I keep seeing it active when I use stealth even out of fight

kinda weird

[fallen arch]

Its nearly everything

[manic pebble]

Thank you! Imma go practice on that

[shadow pivot]

like

[fallen arch]

It’s a bit annoying atm

[shadow pivot]

im just emo-stealthing randomly in Oribos

[honest needle]

@fallen arch outlaw is super ez without necro sbs

[shadow pivot]

and its active

[spice spire]

As far as I know - gemstones is still the play, but I don’t know absolute optimal soulbinds for outlaw, once there is recommend you check with the outlaw folks. They’re very helpful!

[spice spire]

FUCK, I swear to god

[honest needle]

so for raid woul i be better off going MA or subter ?

[fallen arch]

To do really wel? Doubtful

[spice spire]

It’s another one of these bullshit interactions

[spice spire]

MA

I might have an answer for you @shadow pivot

[honest needle]

@fallen arch i mean i parse high 90s and im a noob

[fallen arch]

Has anyone tested Subterfuge on the Nine?

Then keep doing what you’re doing I guess

[spice spire]

Yes, MA is better because p1 with multiple adds is so short compared to the one big ad

[fallen arch]

Ok

Yeah if the three targets would live a bit longer

[spice spire]

@shadow pivot it’s another niya herbs situstion with cloaked in shadows I bet

[fallen arch]

It might be better

[spice spire]

https://www.wowhead.com/spell=341529/cloaked-in-shadows

Even if you don’t have it equipped

It creates a healing event for “0” which procs herbs

[shadow pivot]

its kinda annoying tbh, I pulled a pack in HoA yesterday because I just shrouded and this shit activated

[spice spire]

Same with recuperator

[fallen arch]

Yeah same

Also ninjapulled in raid already

[spice spire]

The day I learned that spaghetti code was fucking cursed

[honest needle]

i dont want to use gemstone for outlaw and sin because its a apin in the ass to switch. so whats the best way to do it if i want a seperate soulbind for each spec ?

[fallen arch]

Make an extra rogue

[honest needle]

whats the best way to do it tho

if i want seperate

[spice spire]

Emeni also good afaik. Maybe even better for M+ sometimes, so just swap between them? (Also like I said I’m not 100% sure on the outlaw techs, I HIGHLY recommend asking them)

Swapping constantly

[fallen arch]

Ask Blizzard to get rid of conduit energy

Because it’s bs

[spice spire]

^

[fallen arch]

And otherwise just swap when you can

[spice spire]

Now that I can get behind

[honest needle]

if i still currently only have MA leggo for assasintion should i use subterfuge instead of master assasin ?

becausse i only have MA leggo for now

[spice spire]

Probably? But I’ve not ran into this issue as of yet 😦

[honest needle]

what u mean

[fallen arch]

That u have to raid with MA

[spice spire]

Yeah I haven’t raised with MA since like week 2 of CN. So I’d think sub, but I’m not 100%

[honest needle]

do u have a link to the action soulbind sims so i can see where nightfae ranks in

with doomblade

[spice spire]

It’s in the pins! NF is at the bottom of both, whispyr uses the best sim of every soulbind

[fallen arch]

Might be worth the pain to swap

I mean, the renown grind isn’t that bad

[spice spire]

It really isn’t as bad as I thought looking at it

[plain thistle]

the boring part is the covenant campaign

[honest needle]

ya i dont like cov campaigne

it sucks and i rarely have time cause i play 2 toons

i had 3 i cut down to 2

so this cov swapping sucks ass

i mean its only 200-250 dps difference

if i stayed nightfae

but i do wanna switch. but im lazy as fuck

[idle star]

So we downed painmaster heroic in 11 pulls tonight ...

[honest needle]

if i did wanan craft obedience what slot is that best on i dont see that in pins

nm i see it

[odd hazel]

Shit must be nice.

did you get the mount fam

[plain thistle]

was it painful?

[fallen arch]

Painmaster?

[idle star]

The balls boss

[plain thistle]

pain inflicter

[idle star]

My logs are terrible

[fallen arch]

That’s because you’ve been killing the wrong boss

Everyone was on Painsmith

While you were stabbing some painmaster balls boss

[plain thistle]

[idle star]

Haha painsmith then

[mild dagger]

How do you even stab painsmith balls without it being mad sketchy

What sorta inspector gadget extendo arms are you packing lol

[idle star]

Its ez

[south belfry]

Just backpedal bro

[idle star]

Just strafe, change camera angle

[fallen arch]

You dont have to strafe

Just take few steps backward

[gusty mirage]

It's still so sketchy lol

[weak bane]

i was just doting it then bitching at the ranged with 0 damage on it 🙂

[odd hazel]

if

your range cant handle it

get new ranged

¯_(ツ)_/¯

not saying dont hit it at all but

99% of it should be ranged easily switching

i mean hell, a boomy/lock/mage could easily kill 2 of them

[fallen arch]

As soon as stupid range dont bump into you with their bumper carts its fine

[indigo mulch]

I forced our raids range to kill it so melee didnt have to deal with that shit :/

[odd hazel]

Good

[fallen arch]

We play with 9 melee 🤓

[odd hazel]

same here oz

[narrow ravine]

I still have not found a single unholy domination shard

[indigo mulch]

we have 5 melee atm :c

[fallen arch]

Way better

But for some reason all our heavy hitters wanna play melee

[indigo mulch]

The heavy hitters are melee though. 😮

[spice spire]

TRUE.

[indigo mulch]

Both rogues and arms warriors are pretty darn good on single target.

DH's are decent for balls though. Eye beam is good bratwurst.

[narrow ravine]

shadow...

[winged basin]

Ranged should be damn near exploding them..

[lusty surge]

Definitely seeing my value playing sin in the boss damage

[torn atlas]

Dh just zoom around the side

[narrow ravine]

even enhancement cough is pretty high on the list

while giving us windfury totem!

[lusty surge]

I gotta get in that wf group

[winged basin]

I am top raid dps every night, getting a pi now every single pull. Life as a rogue is good

[sharp coral]

Hi! By examining the top venthyr assassination rogues on Wow logs, I notice that on most raid boss fights, they are using elaborate planning / vigor instead of Blindside / deeper stratagems. By looking at the pins, the second ones should be better in ST and most fights are almost ST no?

[narrow ravine]

insert "life is good, but it could be better meme"

[winged basin]

^^

It could be better. I could get fatescribe helm Sunday, then get sylvanas dagger in my vault

[fallen arch]

Give us baseline acrobatic strikes

[winged basin]

BUT THATS ASSUMING WE KILL SYLVANAS THIS WEEKEND AND WE ARENT

[fallen arch]

Man that would be sweet

[winged basin]

That would be sweet

[narrow ravine]

yeah and I could win the lotto but I never buy a ticket

[fallen arch]

Then do

[winged basin]

I’ve been pretty lucky with my gear ngl

[lusty surge]

Bs/Ds only sims like 50 dps better for me, and vigor just feels much smoother to play in practice

I think that's why most people stick with vigor

[heavy vessel]

hmmm. 213 hateful chain sims higher than 216 totem?! (paired with 226 fusion amp) (I know, low gear scrub)

is it because of the double on use?

Well, by sims higher I mean +6dps

[winged basin]

That trinket sims so bad for me

I got one on heroic and it’s big cheekers compared to my 233 ticking and 226 totem

[gaunt tree]

hateful chain is sketchy imo, i'd stick to the totem

[teal bloom]

slamming shiv in sanguine depths+12 unholy dk damage kekw

[winged basin]

What makes chain sketchy 😂

[knotty grove]

What leggo do you use for m+ Janisss?

[gaunt tree]

heal is negligible and sims consider 100% uptime on damage

i played monk on 9.0 and i used chain for a while, not a big fan, thats all there is to it

[low gale]

Hey mates, one question. If I have 5 combo points, but everything is lined up for a huge burst window, should I just use Shiv or a finisher?

Im playing with vigor

[spice spire]

If shiv is up, we slam

[winged basin]

^

[spice spire]

Even if it overcaps it’s fine

[low gale]

Ok, nice! Thank you ^^

[spice spire]

Shiv is the ONLY forgivable thing outside of seal fate 😛

[plain thistle]

[spice spire]

Yepyep:)

[sharp coral]

Ok thanks Rhyme. I'm trying to learn Assassination because Outlaw is not viable enough for the new raid and understand the reason for vigor, especially if our haste is not high enough, but I don't understand why the rogues using Elaborate planning are higher in dps than the Blindside ones, as in theory, Blindside should be superior in ST....

[spice spire]

Lmfao

[oblique kiln]

My obedience cloak dosent sim any higher then my DS cloak, am I just dumb and doing it wrong?

[spice spire]

Probably not, did you mean Doomblade? Either way, in pins above top ST is actually dauntless Doomblade

[oblique kiln]

Dashing scoundrel

DS

[spice spire]

Ohhhhhh

So many DS things. DS close to DB, it’s not out of the realm of possibility

[winged basin]

Tell that to Foreverguy

[fallen arch]

Your Deepwr Strat clock what?

[winged basin]

All 3 specs are viable in this raid

[fallen arch]

You must like that windfury totem ey

[cloud bramble]

obedience is a let down. thanks nerfbat

[spice spire]

Hard to tell that to a sub main :/

[teal bloom]

windfury best

[winged basin]

[fallen arch]

But Outlaw is certainly not useless in SoD

[teal bloom]

@knotty grove I use Zoldyck

[winged basin]

I saw Junkratxd doing BIG PHAT damage on remnant

Regardless, all 3 specs viable, don’t have a mentality that they aren’t. Play what you want to

[honest needle]

does sub have a chance of getting better. if so imma go venther. if its gonna stay assaisntion then ill go necro

[winged basin]

sub is only going to improve

All 3 specs will improve with gear

All 3 specs will run a sylv dagger for ST

[strange python]

Having to play ma nightstalker in m+ is making me cry

[gaunt tree]

isnt sub already slapping my dudes?

[honest needle]

well its necro or venth and i cant decide. I cant stay night fae. I wanna go necro but im worried im gonan fuckout outlaw badly with sbs cause its a hard playstyle with necro

[strange python]

I do ridiculous burst but it's so dumb

[winged basin]

It has its fights

[gaunt tree]

yeah i'm planning on going back venth just cause i dont wanna play outlaw anymore

[winged basin]

If playing sin/outlaw go necro if playing sin/sub go venthyr

[winged basin]

I’m Venth and have had a grand time the past 2 weeks

[gaunt tree]

going between sub and sin is a nice pacing for this raid imo

[honest needle]

@winged basin i wanna go necro im extremly worried about playing sbs poorly

[winged basin]

Necro is super easy and super fun. You don’t touch sbs unless you are in a gemstone window, and that logic doesn’t apply to adds, fling sbs and FORGET ABOUT ITTTTTTTTT

No worries allowed my friend, be confident in yourself 🙂

[honest needle]

@winged basin so outlawe necro playstyle is hard for m+ right

[gaunt tree]

why tho?

[winged basin]

I don’t find necrolaw hard at all

[fervent rune]

I didn’t think it was hard it just wasn’t as mindless as sepsis

[winged basin]

I find Venth outlaw hard, it’s gross

[gaunt tree]

just think of sbs as a button to press once on every mob and play outlaw normally, which is imo the easiest of all 3 specs

almost kinda boring

[honest needle]

i was told u have to keep up sbs on 3 targets make sure to cleave it and use it priority over sinister strike and then i need to snipe targets at low hp

[gaunt tree]

keep up is a strange term on a skill that never goes away

[winged basin]

Yeah, you apply sbs once, then forget about, most important thing is not sbsing a trash mob with sbs already on it

[honest needle]

so then whats the trick ?

[winged basin]

No trick

Hit and forget it

[gaunt tree]

think about what u said here

its literally apply sbs

[fallow glacier]

Throw sbs at mobs that don’t have it

[gaunt tree]

and play normally

[honest needle]

dont u always use it priority over sinister strike ?

[winged basin]

unless you are on a boss, and gemstone procs

[honest needle]

what happens if u apply it to a target that alrdy has it ?

[gaunt tree]

it just means to apply the debuff and forget it

[fallow glacier]

It does damage and generates combo points

[gaunt tree]

its a priority over sinister if the mob doesnt have a sbs stack already

[honest needle]

so if theres 5 targets i want it on all 5

[fallow glacier]

Yes, or as many as you can

[scenic root]

This would be a good conversation in #outlaw if you want good tips for Necro outlaw in m+

[fallow glacier]

^

[gaunt tree]

fair

[honest needle]

well ty that makes it alot eaiser

they made it sound alot more complicated

wtf is a gemstone proc tho ?

is there a weakaura for thaty

[fallow glacier]

It’s a heimir soulbind

[winged basin]

there def is, can someone get him the link, I’m mobile

[gaunt tree]

heirmir gemstone is the soulbind skill

gives u crit on proc

[honest needle]

ya can some 1 link me

[fallow glacier]

Also mobile

[honest needle]

so on bosses i just hit sbs multipel times to build points i can do it 3 times ina row on same 1 boss ?

[winged basin]

am at work, secretly texting my favorite discord channel #assassination

[fallow glacier]

No, one time on a boss

[gaunt tree]

https://wago.io/MarrowedGemstone

[fallow glacier]

Then dump all your charges when you get your gemstone proc

[honest needle]

@fallow glacier so 1 time on boss then never touch it again ?

[fallen arch]

No dude, listen

[winged basin]

1 time in your opener, then dump during gemstone

[honest needle]

o ok i got it

ty ty

[gaunt tree]

use sbs once, keep charges for gemstone proc, never let it get to 3 stacks

simple as that

[spice spire]

As long as you unload on gemstone procs it’ll never get to 3

[winged basin]

[spice spire]

I added a sound for mine to let me know when it’s up

[fallow glacier]

Mine covers my whole screen

[honest needle]

send me 1 with sound plz

im old lol sound helps me

[fallen arch]

Don't unload mindlessly on ST btw

If you know that adds are incoming

[fallow glacier]

Don’t confuse the man

[fallen arch]

It has to be said

[honest needle]

got it

I figured that

[fallen arch]

So for instance on the Eye

[spice spire]

Just add a sound 😛

[fallen arch]

Keep 1 for the split phase

and keep one for the angel

[strange python]

@spice spire how much crit do you reckon it'll take for me to stop using MA

[spice spire]

Yes

Oh wait

You’re the weird NS build oh no

[strange python]

Yep

[spice spire]

The meme in me says 34%

[strange python]

Holy fuck

[fallen arch]

86%

[spice spire]

But tbf, don’t think it’ll be a thing

[strange python]

I'm at 25% or so since last time I was here

[oblique kiln]

You guys use zoldyck for the first boss for his last phase

[fallen arch]

no

[strange python]

Like the NS doesn't feel bad

[spice spire]

Subterfuge dead ST unless we get borrowed power like Shrouding and NS is usually

[strange python]

Duality of man

[spice spire]

No lol. Not a bad idea, but no

[spice spire]

Truly

[teal bloom]

Nightstalker + Tiny toxic blade secret tech

[strange python]

Holy fuck

[pale plank]

What’s that one leggo that I can craft for all fights? Obedience? Or zoldyck

[visual stratus]

Can someone explain to a person coming back from a break why it is that Echo are preferring Sub rogues over Assa whenever they bring Rogues? I thought that Assa was strictly better on ST, but i might have been wrong in that assessment.

[strange python]

This is nasty, the build im using right now is gross but this is borderline disgusting

[honest needle]

dumb question but whats the necrolord flight path called ? i never been here and dont kno where it is lol

[gaunt tree]

doomblade

[gaunt tree]

its a matter of damage profile

the fights echo brought rogues in were fights on a very good dmg profile and mechanics usage proper for subs

[visual stratus]

Is it that Shadow Dance windows fit better with the timing of the mechanics than Vendetta burst windows?

[honest needle]

does opener change for assasination with sbs ?

i thought that was for outlaw

ok same shit for sin then

[spice spire]

Something rebuke

[gaunt tree]

just use asap

[spice spire]

Sub pumps on ST rn

[honest needle]

use after opener right

[strange python]

No

[spice spire]

Part of opener

[strange python]

I think it's use out of stealth

Instead of mutilate

[spice spire]

Bone spike > SnD > Mut (if at 4) > rupture

[honest needle]

during MA window ?

[spice spire]

Yes

First CD

[gaunt tree]

what I do personally is garrote from stealth, SnD, SBS

[honest needle]

so sbs snd mut garrote rupture vendetta shiv vanish mut ?

[spice spire]

Why are you garroteing with MA

[prisma cypress]

fat garrote crits

[gaunt tree]

idk tbh, probably a thing i cant let go from 8.3 sin rogue

[spice spire]

It’s only crit during the MA window, so like two ticks?

[gaunt tree]

i'm coming back from playing monk on 9.0

[spice spire]

[alpine latch]

I still can't decide if I'm going to make Obe and just rock that for raid and m+, or make DB and Zoldyck.

It's a 69 DPS loss to wear Obedience for me

ST

[strange python]

I mean it's a matter of convenice tbh

[gaunt tree]

is ur venth and only playing sin, i'd make obe since it works well on DGs as well

[spice spire]

Ahhh I see. Yeah ST with MA, you don’t garrote during the MA window

[alpine latch]

Yeah, that's what I'm considering. Just using that and banking all of my ash/cinders for the rest of the tier

[strange python]

What fights would sub be recommended on might give it a shot since obedience is rotting away in my bags

[gaunt tree]

MA window is like 2 GCDs i hate that

[spice spire]

A. Nice
B. If It’s not that much of a diff ST, then I’d say conveniently make obe

[strange python]

It's like 3-4

Not 2 gcds though fs

Unless I'm confusing the uptime on the buff with the leggo

[alpine latch]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gvPLEgGMbp4VoFF796okfF

[gaunt tree]

3 seconds idk how many gcds i can get in there with my ms

[strange python]

But I'm pretty sure they're consistent

[spice spire]

It feels low impact

[alpine latch]

+104 with Doomblade, +35 with Obedience

Literally, 69 DPS

lol

[strange python]

That's rough

[spice spire]

Nice..

[strange python]

I think I can get in about 4 gcds in ma window

Playing in like 70 ping

[alpine latch]

I really need to work on my gear. My anxiety has been sky high the last two weeks and I haven't done much outside of raid night

[spice spire]

But in all seriousness obe seems super fine and it changes okay style a little bit

[gaunt tree]

even if u want to make all leggos, starting with obe for convenience is way better imo @alpine latch

and if ur sticking to 1 you want a versatile leggo so still obe

[alpine latch]

It's just crit/haste for it, right?

[spice spire]

No worries king. It’s a game that’s meant to be enjoyed. Just find a nice vibe time and down some mythics and stuff.

[alpine latch]

I'm not playing Sub

[spice spire]

If you plan on just sin, yeah

[alpine latch]

cool

I'll just make a r4 and then make a r6 next week

[strange python]

@spice spire do you think my hate crit obedience would work for sub since I have high verse from other gear