X4
#assassination
odd hazel
heavy dove
Yeah it's his raid gear, obviously he's missing gems but his sim does seem pretty low
soft shale
@heavy dove if that was his sim tell him he has outlaw conduits
soft shale
maybe that is their best ilvl gear
also well the sockets on rings and things like that
solid venture
idk i have like 30% mastery and i sim ~7.4k 
odd hazel
Yes, Ep/subterfuge/vigor/crimson
teal bloom
Nice
solid venture
!oil
prisma monolithBOT
Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ
heavy dove
Alright guys, thanks a lot for your suggestions much appreciated
odd hazel
Sim your self
Your stats can vary wildly
I have 21% haste and it still says to take more
I sim at 6.3k at 223
I need a shadowgrasp totem in my life
south belfry
I need 229 phial and totem
odd hazel
Knowing me I’ll get the same 3 items
grim hawk
I need a shadowgrasp totem in my life
wait shadowgrasp totem is good now?
alpine latch
It's been good
iron orchid
carrying myself through SD 16 
alpine latch
lol
green flame
holy
vagrant bison
i am 222 and never went past 6.2k overall 
quaint carbon
iron orchid
We had a good tank, optimizing our urn uptime for big packs
light mirage
We had a good tank, optimizing our urn uptime for big packs
What do your stats and ilvl look like?
That’s some damn good dmg
light mirage
You little rebel you
ebon minnow
bone zone 4ever
icy dock
do i make zoldyck and doomblade both with crit haste ?
isnt crit mastery better for zoldyck since u almost only use it in m+
west cove
hey gents, looking to dust off my rogue a bit, i see guide says Venthyr is this still our recommended? see alot of guys run necro on raider.io
lusty surge
do NW weapons still work with the MA talent?
or is it nerfed for both the legendary and talent
odd hazel
wait shadowgrasp totem is good now?
It’s always been good
odd hazel
hey gents, looking to dust off my rogue a bit, i see guide says Venthyr is this ...
Both are very good and very close so pick your favorite
Like 100-200 difference if that
balmy condor
do NW weapons still work with the MA talent?
It never worked with the talent
fervent path
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
vestal wren
do any classes have modifiers that work with it?
no
odd hazel
Other then that just use it during gemstone and don’t let it cap
vestal wren
at least not rogue
strange python
ah i see ok
vestal wren
iirc warriors still have mechanics that work on items
grim hawk
Both are very good and very close so pick your favorite
but when we consider m+ and pvp necro pulls ahead right?
odd hazel
but when we consider m+ and pvp necro pulls ahead right?
I believe necro pulls ahead with cleave fights
grim hawk
ooh
north basin
poison bug -200 dps. and sylvana dagger + 150-200 dps? so in other words blizzard took sylvana dagger dps from us?XD
drowsy parcel
im not sure they are even aware
drowsy parcel
but i vote for sandbagging for another week until tuning is done 
hollow escarp
why we are not flooding forums with it. its not minor
not sure if that would help anyway
hollow escarp
yeah, they can shout 
dawn ivy
does rogue have a group of loud people
north basin
we sneaky
vestal wren
does rogue have a group of loud people
no
dawn ivy
we need one
slender berry
spamming the forums mihg result in them looking at it again , result will still be the same
north basin
we can send spam squad from ravenhold to blizz forums and twitter.
real pewter
anywhere I can find weakauras that track all of our dots?
balmy condor
anywhere I can find weakauras that track all of our dots?
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
real pewter
thanks
balmy condor
hit "own only" in the trigger
thorny rampart
tyty
wintry mica
how is venthyr in keys? Im not liking bone spikes as much as I thought I would
balmy condor
it's good
bleak sky
are you all crafting r5 obediences or just waiting for r6?
hollow escarp
rank 4 and then skip to 6
might not be the greatest idea if you want to trade cloaks
alpine latch
So it's a 250DPS loss if we go back to Neolord
hollow escarp
on bis profile, yep
alpine latch
Honestly, I might just make the jump back to Necro and call it a day.
250 DPS is a good bit, but I much prefer the playstyle of it.
alpine latch
I like SBS more, personally.
hollow escarp
same
alpine latch
So it doesn't make sense to craft obedience
hollow escarp
the only thing that makes me wanna stay venthyr is that I can also play sub in M+
I could with necro as well
but meh
teal bloom
with my gear the difference between necro and venthyr in patchwerk was only 0.3% so I swapped back to necrolord
alpine latch
Yeah, but Sin is fine in m+ too
hollow river
What’s sad is that we will never use necro legendary
alpine latch
Yeah, I'm not a CE raider yet, let alone an HoF. A small hit in DPS isn't the end of the world.
hollow escarp
for sure, but I already play sin in m+
just wanted to play the other specs as well
bleak sky
What’s sad is that we will never use necro legendary
I wish they hadn't gutted the necro leggy
alpine latch
I have never really enjoyed Sub
alpine latch
Sub is all about maximizing your dance, right?
I haven't even played it since Legion
hollow escarp
I did one sub key this patch and already beat my sin overall 
kind talon
Lol rip
hollow river
I did 5.5k in necrotic wake
hollow escarp
with 210 finality
hollow river
With no weapons
kind talon
I had a goated key yesterday
hollow escarp
oof
kind talon
8k mists
kind talon
Outlaw tho
hollow river
I’m not very good so
kind talon
Kekw
hollow river
I’m gonna practice outlaw too this tier
I want to be good at every spec and my outlaw sucks ass
pure moth
I wish i could pull those numbers overall. But our tanks have been garbage . So rip
hollow escarp
been lucky to do keys with guildies
uncut comet
is sub doing well in m+ now? feels like i only see outlaws
kind talon
Ye
odd hazel
Sin m+ for life
hollow river
Halls, DoS, Mists, and necrotic wake it’s very good
ToP, Spires I run sin
Plague and SD idk yet
hollow escarp
necrotic with so many smallies makes me wanna swap to sub for that BP spam 
hollow river
Yep.
kind talon
Outlaw is extremely strong in mists
bleak sky
Plague and SD idk yet
SD sin feels pretty good
hollow river
Why in mists?
hollow escarp
target cap
kind talon
Maze
kind talon
Lol true
hollow river
So many slugs
kind talon
Maze is by far the longest part of the dungeon
hollow river
So little time
kind talon
Though
hollow river
W usually pull the pat into tree
kind talon
Sub is really strong too
hollow river
I hate it on 2 target
kind talon
Yeah it’s like. 7 pack
vagrant bison
is a 5 item level difference worth 1.1k dps on a sim?
hollow river
What do you mean
vagrant bison
cause i run the basic sim on myself (il 222) and another rog (il227) and the difference is more than 1k
odd hazel
Itemization probably
hollow escarp
you have zoldyck
balmy condor
they both do
hollow escarp
true
balmy condor
this is a single target sim of a dslice setup
hollow escarp
I saw the gloves, thought it's doomblade
balmy condor
cause i run the basic sim on myself (il 222) and another rog (il227) and the dif...
The tldr is yes
his gear is more optimized, and he's got a higher ilvl
manic bridge
weapons are bigger tho
odd hazel
I mean I’m 223 and sim at 6.3
vagrant bison
it look like we have almost the same setup except for gear
balmy condor
yes
that's what I said
weapons are big, ilvl is big
and you have like 0 haste
so that's gonna suck
gloomy rose
the shadowgrasp totem is good onlz in aoe where you can get the cd reduction or even in single target?
balmy condor
the shadowgrasp totem is good onlz in aoe where you can get the cd reduction or ...
it's our second best trinket in single target
gloomy rose
great, thank you
hollow river
Phial #1?
balmy condor
ye
hollow river
I really need to farm that shit this tier
odd hazel
Not farming it last tier is weird champ
civic trellis
Uhm
Lot of people is playing EP/Vigor
I wonder why, if it seems a bit lower than MA/BS
hollow river
Did an alliance just say something? I can’t ready gibberish
civic trellis
I guess because downtime
dusky orbit
down time?
halcyon zealot
Lot of people is playing EP/Vigor
it’s a very minor dps loss for most profiles and is smoother to play/feels better for some people
granite jackal
Good afternoon ya all! I have a question in regards to energy usage and if I should be pooling my energy ever or just spamming abilities till I can use that ability. At the moment I feel very energy starved. I know our energy is our resource, but should I be running out in the middle of my rotation? I am only around 210 Ilevel so perhaps that is where I am hitting a wall.
civic trellis
it’s a very minor dps loss for most profiles and is smoother to play/feels bette...
Yeah
That makes sense tbh
civic trellis
down time?
downtime
hollow river
Down time?!
granite jackal
Thanks @hollow river I am very new to rogue as a whole. Is there a time frame I should begin pooling it. Like a window when my shiv is about off cd?
civic trellis
If you get a mechanic, you get up to 170 energy vs 120
with vigor
but is my guess
hollow river
Always pool
granite jackal
So always have at least 30 energy at all times?
hollow river
No
wintry mica
you pool until you are 30 away from max energy
granite jackal
Ah Okay!
hollow river
Yea
halcyon zealot
if you’re new to rogue, you honestly probably shouldn’t worry about pooling til you’re very comfortable with the base rotation
it’s just a minor optimization
hollow river
What he said^
wintry mica
Im so on the fence about swapping to venthyr, I cant decide
hollow river
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
tepid heron
is there a sheet anywhere that shows what bleeds affect doomblade?
hollow river
Always be sure you have poisons applied
All of our bleeds effect doomblade
No trinket
tepid heron
what about like the necrotic power?
odd hazel
Did an alliance just say something? I can’t ready gibberish
I’m not sure what that sentence said. Was that supposed to be read ?
balmy condor
is there a sheet anywhere that shows what bleeds affect doomblade?
garrote, rupture, crimson tempest, bone spike, and nothing else
well
internal bleeding does
wintry mica
does it stack with the muti damage it gives?
tepid heron
true thanks for the info
granite jackal
Yea I have read the guides over and over just like to hear from the community I know there is a lot of knowledge around here and frankly I am trying to gather as much as I can before raid next week!
hollow escarp
can't kidney bosses 
hollow river
Ah ok @granite jackal
wintry mica
even if you could you still wouldnt use internal bleeding lol
balmy condor
even if you could you still wouldnt use internal bleeding lol
false
internal bleeding would be a dps gain
hollow escarp
you could use Internal Bleeding on Fatescribe
wintry mica
if you could do it
balmy condor
well okay, so you're also assuming that prey works in that hypothetical
hollow escarp
the small ads can be stunned I think
balmy condor
then yes, prey would be better
hollow river
Rogue utility to stun bosses pls
quaint carbon
balmy condor
but just like strictly on paper, if internal would work, you would be kidney shotting on cooldown
wintry mica
do yall think flag or bone spikes is more fun to play with?
hollow escarp
but just like strictly on paper, if internal would work, you would be kidney sho...
but Prey on the Weak would be a raid CD
I assume that would bring more value
wintry mica
do we know on average what kind of CD reduction you will get out of obedience?
azure bronze
do we know on average what kind of CD reduction you will get out of obedience?
1:10-1:15 min cd ish
alpine latch
do yall think flag or bone spikes is more fun to play with?
Personally, I like SBS more than Flag.
Feels more impactful for me personally
wintry mica
so would you flag vendetta, flag, then hold vendetta for 20ish seconds for the third flag, or desync?
azure bronze
so would you flag vendetta, flag, then hold vendetta for 20ish seconds for the t...
always use flag on CD
wintry mica
worth holding vendetta to line it up with every other flag?
i guess it could be like 20-30 sec of holding which is alot
frigid pilot
After obedience nerf is doomblade the move now?
hollow escarp
based on sims, both are fine
wintry mica
sim in the pin is updated with nerf
green vortex
Is necro somewhat competitive with venthyr for sin rogues rn?
balmy condor
you can check the pins
violet hemlock
After pugging 11 pulls on Heroic the Eye I got rewarded for my patience with the chestpiece
now blizz still needs to convince me these shards exist
dusky karma
have 4/5 bis shards on my main, got no gear with sockets to put them in.. kinda sucks, 2 uholy (dps included) 1 blood dps, and 1 frost dps
real pewter
When do we use ZOldyck's by comparison to doobmlade?
dusky karma
long duration execute
real pewter
kk
dusky karma
so NOT sylvanas
real pewter
yeah
south belfry
I got the mastery trinket from tazavesh
It sims better than 226 Bottled Flayedwing :p
soft shale
it is quite a good trink for its illvl
balmy sage
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
rain nexus
!opener
stiff thicket
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
limber lion
Pretty unlikely getting both vault trinkets
frigid kestrel
Phial, Totem, and Decanter?
scenic jetty
feels like they might tune the raid trinkets a bit
limber lion
Ds/bs is generally for single target heavy fights, ep/vig pulls ahead in multitarget. But a lot of people just prefer ep/vig so they stick to that because it's more comfortable
For Necro the difference is very minimal so it's pretty common seeing Necros run ep/vig
soft shale
seems like salvaged+vault totem would be pretty good for almost everything
because of obe
but if they buff kt trinket its also really good
scenic jetty
i droped both phial + totem from 15
green vortex
what is the totem you guys are referring to? I can't find in in game
limber lion
Yoy definitely can.
limber lion
And single
scenic jetty
sims very high on ST too
limber lion
It just does good damage
violet hemlock
Hey guys look how shit outlaw is
scenic jetty
duno bro so much we need to learn yet;D
green vortex
Yea that's why Im curious haha
scenic jetty
like how will obbedience behave now
harsh anchor
Jokes on you, it's him that's the outlaw
violet hemlock
;D
scenic jetty
i can't believe we killed sylvanas normal yday with 2 hunters and both got the legendary bow while 2 rogues and no daggers for us...
what are the odds
rigid tartan
yo guys, ive been trying to search about the shard upgrades. which is the order that would be preferable to upgrade the shards?
rigid tartan
so first one to lvl 3 would be the unholy shard from sylvanas?
scenic jetty
y
like for start ud prob want the dmg increase one
when u complete set u wana level them together i guess
rigid tartan
so i just bought it at heirmir for the first upgrade. how to upgrade it further now? lol
rigid tartan
ahh, thanks so much 😄
violet hemlock
Jokes on you, it's him that's the outlaw
Im the sin rogue but its a the nine pug so expected the outlaw to do okay
hes the raid lead
plucky lintel
Hey guys, is there a full sim of trinkets somewhere???
balmy condor
!sims
prisma monolithBOT
Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html
wintry mica
do you shiv if its up and you already have max cp?
kind talon
Yes
red bloom
is the totem actually that good in practice?
worthy moth
question: should i use evenenom with 5 points ONLY or 3/4 if crit to save energy?
limber lion
is the totem actually that good in practice?
Yes, has some downfalls obviously
fallen thistle
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
limber lion
question: should i use evenenom with 5 points ONLY or 3/4 if crit to save energy...
Always 4-5 with Vigor, 5-6 with DS
Never at 3
And you don't build if you're at max-1
vocal sphinx
Hey guys, can someone explain why Dashing Scoundrel is simming so high on bloodmallet?
worthy moth
to save points to venthyr power
vocal sphinx
I'm kinda confused
limber lion
Hey guys, can someone explain why Dashing Scoundrel is simming so high on bloodm...
Don't use Bloodmallet. Refer to the sims here in the pins and Herodamage and always just sim yourself
vocal sphinx
Ok, thanks ^^
soft shale
dashing was close to doomblade and obe got nerfed so the three of them will be quite close although i think the dp bug affects dashing more
opaque sparrow
would you guys run a mostly st focused talent build for m+ this week?
opaque sparrow
rather pb than ct and ma for subterfuge
rigid tartan
what if your buildup time for Flag is running out in a global and you are at 3 cp
violet hemlock
not taking ct is basically trolling in m+
dawn ivy
subterfuge is a massive gain for m+ because it gives you 4 strong bleeds right on pull so i wouldnt do that unless you were doing a cheesy MA NS CT build
and CT loses VERY little ST damage compared to PB
opaque sparrow
do you mind if I ask when you are using CT in the st rotation?
dawn ivy
outside of shiv windows
versed mica
Why do people say that Necro for sin is very close? Its like 200 DPS less than venth
karmic tusk
200 is not a lot
glass grotto
So most adds on sylvanas and KT dont reset bone spikes right ?
odd hazel
200 dps isnt a lot
you wont ever notice it
and necro is better in certain instances
which this raid has a lot of of
venth will pull a bit ahead with obedience but no where near that far ahead
odd hazel
O)HHH
wide ridge
talk about a poggers moment
wide ridge
thanks man!! finally lucky for once
odd hazel
now get it a second time
obsidian socket
Holy fuck bro gj gj
south belfry
Spooned ofc
wild beacon
I'm feeling the call of the 
south belfry
Then go for it
wintry mica
is the opener in the wowhead guide correct? it seems weird to flag before vendetta instead of after
slow marsh
Flag does ramping damage. It's more optimal to have the extra couple ticks of vendetta with full flag stack vs the initial flag hit
So yes it's correct
wintry mica
ok guess that makes sense, thanks
slow marsh
Np
whole skiff
@granite jackal I wouldn't worry about pooling energy man. I parse 99s and just spam buttons. Technically pooling is higher dps, but just focus on mechanics instead of pooling imo.
nimble tartan
<@!507677590077833226> I wouldn't worry about pooling energy man. I parse 99s an...
agree
waiting 
full send always 
strange python
hey guys is there a haste cap for assa ?
south belfry
<@!507677590077833226> I wouldn't worry about pooling energy man. I parse 99s an...
Do you not actively try to have maximal uptime on like EP buff or Envenom buff?
strange python
allright 🙂 thy
rustic stump
Congratulations!
whole skiff
Do you not actively try to have maximal uptime on like EP buff or Envenom buff?
Nope. I just maintain my dots and have very high uptime on autoattacks.
If you have a decent amount of haste and crit you will have high uptime on these buffs anyway.
south belfry
Im trialing with another rogue currently, but hes parsing better than me with necrolord soulbind atm.
The crit one is so crazy
He has 2% more crit than me, but his skills have like 10-15% more crit on them
whole skiff
What boss fight?
south belfry
So hes doing more damage than me
whole skiff
I got beaten by our Necro rogue on mythic denathrius.
But he would get huge crit % on the debuffed ad.
south belfry
Just about any boss
shy dust
So hes doing more damage than me
I doubt that’s the sole reason why
south belfry
whole skiff
Straight off the bat without really looking, 84.89% uptime.
So he will have heaps of auto attack damage compared to you.
south belfry
Which boss
south belfry
I died at Eye
whole skiff
Necro is better for multi target cleave.
So the nine isn't really a good fight to compare.
south belfry
Yep
I guess remnant is something that doesnt have too much
uhh
What would you call them
Variables
limber lion
Guardian is probably the best fight for log analysis.
sonic schooner
agreed
whole skiff
Why is your Flagellation damage so low? I get 100k dmg from Flag, you're at 60?
stiff thicket
Have you guys already crafted doomblade on cloak ? Or do you want to wait a bit ?
limber lion
I'm crafting it on cloak next week
deft obsidian
I did but got gloves off eye of the jailer and a decent Dom gem
strange python
I’m also having trouble with flagellation
deft obsidian
But guess no mad rush
south belfry
Why is your Flagellation damage so low? I get 100k dmg from Flag, you're at 60?
Hmm i dont know tbh
stiff thicket
Thank you guys for your answer
limber lion
I’m also having trouble with flagellation
Cast on cooldown and just before a finisher
THat's it
south belfry
Im trying to cast it on cooldown
strange python
That’s what I do
It’s just
Don’t get too many stacks
All the time
Like playing sub I can easily get really high flag, but with assass it’s not the same
south belfry
Why is your Flagellation damage so low? I get 100k dmg from Flag, you're at 60?
Maybe your level of flag conduit?
south belfry
I only have 213 atm
odd hazel
how high
whole skiff
Mines 213 also
grand echo
It's harder with assa to get high
strange python
But there are cases where it’s lower
whole skiff
I hold flagellation to combo it with vendetta every time, unless we're at the end of the fight and I can get another off before vendetta is off cd.
Usually get 24-27 stacks every use.
south belfry
Yeah
whole skiff
Drauce, you didn't do terrible though. You parsed 75th for ilvl.
strange python
I mean like, I’m just doing the classic opener, I don’t think I’m doing anything wrong
south belfry
I came to conclusion its just the crit thing from heirmir
whole skiff
Flagellation > crit for single target
south belfry
Because he only has 2% more crit than me, but his skills get alot more crit
south belfry
His envenom critted 46,5% while mine only 22.5%
whole skiff
Yep
strange python
south belfry
I think we had similar weapons also so i dont know why that happened
south belfry
Drauce, you didn't do terrible though. You parsed 75th for ilvl.
I mean yeah, its not that terrible, but i'm losing to him anyway. I feel like i'm gonna lose the raidspot to him because hes on a currently better soulbind
placid cobalt
would u guys craft obedience or doomblade? im unsure wether to go back necro so doom sems like a solid choice, but idk....
south belfry
I have a doomblade but i'm gonna craft obedience
strange python
i have doomblade, gonna make obedience for m+
placid cobalt
yeah i meant r5 leggos, i already have doom 4
balmy condor
@umbral rapids make r5, okay boss, if you say so
placid cobalt
😄
umbral rapids
wait what
soft shale
ahaha
whole skiff
@south belfry You would've had just enough time to use flagellation with vendetta 3 times. the Flagellation in the middle only got to 15 stacks.
And if you didn't have enough time, you just solo use it like you did mid fight anyway.
south belfry
I honestly can remember what happened
If i got bad luck or if mechanic happened in middle of it
gloomy jay
hello, i am starting to play rogue and i was wondering which covenant i should play, any help possible plz ?
azure bronze
hello, i am starting to play rogue and i was wondering which covenant i should p...
Depends what spec/content you want to focus on
limber lion
Venth or Necro is fine.,
kindred rapids
hello, i am starting to play rogue and i was wondering which covenant i should p...
Kyrian outlaw
gloomy jay
<:pins:433007514825523202>
oh my bad sorry.
gloomy jay
Depends what spec/content you want to focus on
raid and assa
azure bronze
and more versatile
silent fossil
how is necro assass more versatile when venth is better for dslice and ST and also bis for sub
azure bronze
as in world content and stuff
void pecan
Real RPer's duh
silent fossil
you got me there
kindred rapids
how is necro assass more versatile when venth is better for dslice and ST and al...
Better cleave
silent fossil
not by enough to say it's the better choice
devout glen
I think if ur progging raid venthyr is the way to go obedience is good for all 3 specs and venthyr will provide the most boss dmg
limber lion
Not necessarily.
If you're into it, you can sim yourself with Top Gear for several different fight types and then make a decision based on your own personal sims.
kindred rapids
Necro sims like 60 DPS less for me in ST and will perform better in a number of real raid situations
placid cobalt
necro sims higher or equal than venth on my toon when using EP-Vigor which is what i usually run in mythic prog.
devout glen
Necro def good still I think ultimately we will have to wait till next week and look at real raid numbers
Both are prob a fine decision
placid cobalt
atm im venth cos i switched when obedience stuff first came out, i have to say tho necro never disappointed me. I'd say the biggest downsides would be that you need to craft several leggos and all if ur necro
placid cobalt
but it's easier to play, and also not having a 1.5 min cd makes it in my opinion way more solid, as in there are situations with venthyr that you simply don't have the spell available, or the boss dies as the spell is coming back off cd's, which just doesnt happen as necro
@limber lion yeah i meant i play both sin and sub in + and occasionally outlaw, so i could have obedience to fit all sin+sub profiles is what i meant
limber lion
Yep, that's true.
placid cobalt
vs having doomblade, zoldyk, finality and potentially even aakari
but thats my personal thing cos i play all 3 sin only players have no real downside in that regard
timid talon
Are there any sims with the new trinket buffs? Im sure its insignificant but hoping its better
thorny pond
!sims
prisma monolithBOT
Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html
timid talon
Neither of those are updated with the new data.
misty holly
For long intermissions having an extra 1.5m cooldown is good. Cooldowns all recharging while you wait. I'm not sure how many SoD has, I haven't seen sylvanas yet.
woven ruin
Does doom benefit from crimson temp?
misty holly
But necro also has advantages when you have short periods of time off boss. Have to move to avoid an AoE? Use a global to bone spike to keep rotation going. Are you moving to soak something? Press fleshcraft it helps a lot. I did that every P3 in Denathrius
If the dps difference in sims is really only 60 that's close enough that secondary advantages like felshcarft or door of shadows being good/bad might be the difference
solid venture
Where do you fit in CT in the opener as necro on patchwerk? Sbs snd mut gar rup mut mut ct shiv vendetta ?
teal bloom
I think you only use ct in st after your first shiv ends
gray sleet
I'm learning assa, are they starting out of stealth? Or is there something before prepull that i'm missing?
silent fossil
looks standard, wdym
teal bloom
@solid venture I would use as the first finisher once shiv ends (unless rupture is about to fall of) regardless of how many seconds vendetta has left. You could do a quick sim and check how api uses it though
gray sleet
looks standard, wdym
Not ambush at the begginig?
teal bloom
!mut
prisma monolithBOT
Ambush is currently only used from blindside/sepsis proc, not from stealth.
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3).
Some other factors to consider are increased poison applications, blindside, and doomblade. This is true for all talent combinations and legendaries.
silent fossil
you only ambush with a blindside proc
gray sleet
Oh i see, ty
silent fossil
mut from stealth with master assass is more consistent cp
solid venture
<@!191934917221810176> I would use as the first finisher once shiv ends (unless ...
I'll give it a try tomorrow, thx ^^
limpid ermine
Anyone happen to have the sim code for best race btw?
teal bloom
@solid venture In what situation are you using both master assassin talent and crimson tempest btw? some 2 target situation?
silent fossil
anything with heavy movement or multi target
wild beacon
Human rep boost is bis 
void pecan
True
grizzled mist
does Sin want the Sylv daggers?
balmy condor
<@!191934917221810176> In what situation are you using both master assassin tale...
sire
balmy condor
does Sin want the Sylv daggers?
yes, very much so
versed mica
I heard from guy that outlaw gets better DPS increase from dagger in comparison to outlaw
idle star
Human rep boost is bis <:ez:587982298104987648>
Im not very impressed by the repals atm... what are they really offering me??
versed mica
Funny frog drawing moment
idle star
Reps*
solid venture
<@!191934917221810176> In what situation are you using both master assassin tale...
i'd use it on the nine and on soulrender dormazain
am i not supposed to play MA with CT ?
stable flint
In single target for necro should I use bone spike once or keep using it throughout the fight?
wild beacon
Im not very impressed by the repals atm... what are they really offering me??
This is more just me justifying rolling human
teal bloom
@solid venture for those fights it's probably good 😄
versed mica
Meh ne only really shines if you're running master assassin leggo
Wait there's subterfuge nnvm
I thought I was still in outlaw channel lmao
teal bloom
@stable flint dump the charges during gemstone windows when every enemy is spiked already
wild beacon
Haha. NE just too good in M+
Yeah I'll prob race change eventually tbh, meld just too handy
south belfry
I love meld even in world content
It has saved me probably hundred tiles by now
M+ and world
crystal vault
!blindside
prisma monolithBOT
Macroing Ambush to Mutilate only works with the use of a addon.
It comes with the downside that it often requires multiple key presss.
Suggested addon to use(Gnome Sequencer):http://tiny.cc/mxb6tz
Showcase Video: #assassination message
dusky orbit
Can anyone explain briefly when should I pool the energy?
modest gazelle
are you supposed to hold flag for vendetta atm?
gusty mirage
no
you only line up the first, you can hold flag for vendetta if you won't miss a cast
so like at the very end of the boss fight
dusky orbit
And to what point shall I pool it? 30 energy less than max?
magic gale
so if i have 2x 229 daggers, should i upraged both once, or main hand twice?
maybe i can sim it somehow
balmy condor
And to what point shall I pool it? 30 energy less than max?
Yuh
strange silo
might be a dumb question if we pool we just aa right? dont we waste like 1-2 gcd if we have low haste?
sonic schooner
Just spam shiv even on CD ðŸ˜
strange silo
yea ofc but even shiv has 25 sec cd :d
teal bloom
you are energy capped anyway so pooling doesn't cause you to cast less abilities
warped pebble
MY GOOD PEOPLE
strange silo
well yea true
warped pebble
I ASK YOU NOT FOR YOUR ASSASSINATION ABILITIES ON THIS DAY. BUT ONLY FOR YOUR GUIDANCE
WHAT SAY YOU?
I need someone to genuinely help me to set up a rotation for assassination, im a sub rogue whos tired of being low tier damage
lmao
void pecan
Almost all of your questions can be answered in the pins naz
warped pebble
thank you very much im just reading through them now! 🙂
south horizon
For night fae, is it correct to hold sepsis for use with vendetta, or on CD?
jagged bobcat
Wait so is obedience not nerfed anymore?
in the patch notes on tuesday i didnt see it being nerfed
odd hazel
it is nerfed.
strange silo
What second finesse conduit do u guys play? i thought maybe prepared for all would be probably the best right?
strange python
in the patch notes on tuesday i didnt see it being nerfed
It's nerfed because blizzards balance team gets visibly angry when rogues are good.
Single target DPS spec with no raid utility is theoretically going to do good single target DPS once legendary and dagger come online, after showing only middling performance in heroic week?! CANT HAVE THAT IN MY FIRE MAGE GAME
arctic hatch
Exaggeration much?
subtle tundra
literally best spec overall rn
trail hare
Hi, im new i and i was wondering if my stealth bar should be any different from normal? considering stealth or should i make it so they're the same for less confusion?
strange python
literally best spec overall rn
Was talking about sub. Since the obe nerf is more directly felt by sub.
strange python
A 7th place damage spec with no utility getting a damage nerf is wild.
subtle tundra
it didnt get a damage nerf
subtle tundra
nah you cant be real
real pewter
Can anyone help me with my opener? I'm getting conflicting info
arctic hatch
It's not the 7th spec getting a nerf, it's reducing the power spike it will receive next week
strange python
"Obe nerfs that are coming out aren't nerfs because we don't have it yet" is some gigastupid.
Other specs are getting bigger spikes.
Blizzard shilling rampant
arctic hatch
Dmg will go up and it's already in a good spot
void pecan
the guides have correct openers
real pewter
I did, hence the conflicting info
void pecan
if someone had told you otherwise, they are wrong
strange python
Other specs will go up more. Balance is relative when your tongue isn't the boot.
real pewter
my simc opener is different than the wowhead one
wild beacon
literally best spec overall rn
Huge nerf inc
subtle tundra
nah i dont think so
wild beacon
More optimistic than me then
subtle tundra
this is way too early to draw conclusions from
strange python
Sin is just going to naturally fall as it isn't going to use obe and isn't waiting on any particularly huge non-dagger things.
subtle tundra
nah sin will be giga fine
real pewter
Naturally fall to top 5 maybe, there really aren't many classes that will have huge spikes
strange python
No one said it won't.
balmy condor
so we thinking sin is going to scale but backwards?
is this an astrology thing?
assassination in retrograde atm?
strange python
No.
It's just not waiting on any big systems unlocks next week
And other specs are
And since damage is always shown as relative, it will lose its lead over specs waiting on legendaries.
arctic hatch
Which other specs are gonna shoot up over rogue next week?
strange python
Unless we're suggesting it OuTsCaLeS them
sonic schooner
scaling but backwards
charred wraith
survival?
sonic schooner
strange python
Okay. Let's make this easier to understand since reading is hard.
bronze wagon
only class afaik thats waiting on lego is boomkin
sonic schooner
they can
charred wraith
we ll see how its on mythic
sonic schooner
condemn
arctic hatch
Okay. Let's make this easier to understand since reading is hard.
Everybody understands what you mean. It's not that complicated. Ppl just don't agree
sonic schooner
but SP
balmy condor
considering fight is over at 50%
strange python
Assassination does not use a new systems unlock next week. Other specs do. Assassination will: A.) Go up in value. B.) Stay the same.
B.) Yayyyy gold star for everyone!
Other specs that do use new legendaries will: A.) Go up in value. B.) Stay the same.
A!
When one thing stays the same and another thing goes up on a relative scale, the first thing loses its edge (aka: decreases in value).
We're all learning together yayyyy
arctic hatch
What are these other specs that will skyrocket
umbral rapids
arctic hatch
Except for boomkin
wild beacon
This relies on blizz being logical
strange python
Everybody understands what you mean. It's not that complicated. Ppl just don't a...
Disagreeing with "thing that stays the same loses its edge over things that gain a new thing" is like disagreeing with "2+2=4"
arctic hatch
Answer the question
strange python
You're asking a stupid question. I never said surpass. I said increase.
Be smarter.
halcyon zealot
is it a dumb take that i think its a lil dumb that if a fight ends at 50% hp blizz doesnt treat it as 0% for execute purposes, making 70-50% execute phase. feel free to flame if bad take
strange python
If I have $10 and you have $0 and you suddenly find $9 I am no longer as ahead of you as I was.
devout hazel
yo guys
strange python
This cannot be made any simpler.
umbral rapids
is it a dumb take that i think its a lil dumb that if a fight ends at 50% hp bli...
eh too much, that's 40% of effective health.
sonic schooner
$ 
halcyon zealot
yeah, that is true
balmy condor
daggers are the highest tuned effects on weapons
bronze wagon
which class is skyrocketing on tuesday
balmy condor
I don't think it's too insane to think that things aren't shifting that much
devout hazel
i have doomblade, im playing Elaborate Planning and Vigor, i have 30 crit / 20 haste / 30 mastery / 4 versa
bronze wagon
only one is boomkin and prob will be nerfed
balmy condor
boomy gets an increase
devout hazel
i should get something up
balmy condor
and that's really about it
devout hazel
or just sim it
halcyon zealot
eh too much, that's 40% of effective health.
would have to be a 10% execute then ig
sonic schooner
i m so happy with my new daggeeer
umbral rapids
i don't know what the point was anymore 
balmy condor
or just sim it
sim
balmy condor
i don't know what the point was anymore <:KEKW:744229479492092024>
feelcrafting that sin will be worse compared to other specs without much to show for it I guess
umbral rapids
would have to be a 10% execute then ig
i agree it's dumb honestly lol i don't know what the best fix would be
arctic hatch
You're asking a stupid question. I never said surpass. I said increase.
Ah, a troll I see. Bye 👋
strange python
Ah, a troll I see. Bye 👋
You literally failed to understand the concept of things being relative.
brisk garnet
i don't know what the point was anymore <:KEKW:744229479492092024>
To obfuscate and never admit fault, that seems fairly obvious!
umbral rapids
I mean honestly i get their point
just the rudeness makes me want to troll more than anything 
balmy condor
I get the point too
but I don't get what evidence there is for it
the only strong cov lego is boomy
strange python
Warriors?
sonic schooner
isnt the SP necro one something that will change a lot of things ?
umbral rapids
it's not as good as sims show
strange python
Sylvanas isn't a reason warriors wouldn't use condemn for an entire tier.
umbral rapids
like
bronze wagon
the point is invalid because no class is using new lego except venthyr boomkin
umbral rapids
that's simbait 101
strange python
It's one fight.
strange python
LOL
umbral rapids
like it goes from being insane to absolutely garbo
balmy condor
aight this shit is getting giga cursed now
umbral rapids
the warrior one i mean
sonic schooner
is downtime scaling backwards as well?
primal fossil
speaking of sim trap is doushing scoundrel a sim trap
strange python
Y'all went from not understanding what relative means to talking about downtime. The memes write themselves.
strange python
Ecks. Dee.
soft shale
no dashing is good just not the best by a little although poison bug kind of killed it but they might fix it fast
if they havent yet
umbral rapids
the venthyr fury lego is really not as good as sims would show
soft shale
is downtime the new scaling
balmy condor
with a 50 foot pole
soft shale
notlikethis
balmy condor
no one cares
soft shale
let me tell you something
sonic schooner
hpriest downtime, cant cast smite
balmy condor
downtime is an awful argument
umbral rapids
i mean
strange python
If a warrior is dumb enough to pop reck into a downtime window they're just bad.
soft shale
thanks my man uwu
strange python
And if you're building the wrong legendary because you're bad, then LOL
fallen ivy
what slot is recommended for doomblade?
soft shale
cloak
strange python
Cloak
sonic schooner
Dont ever say that tiny toxic blade isnt the bis leggo ðŸ˜
fallen ivy
thanx friends.
sonic schooner
cloak crit haste ayee :3
strange python
Sin low-key fucking slapping keys this week
wild beacon
Yeah it's been feeling real good
timid talon
Sin low-key fucking slapping keys this week
you mean necrotic dagger and raging battle axe is slapping 
timid talon
soft shale
all the cool powers got turbo nerfed
sonic schooner
u know the worst part whisp
timid talon
its better than prideful
balmy condor
its better than prideful
get out
soft shale
sonic schooner
is all of those people who did only fortified and used pride to blast bosses
balmy condor
prideful wasn't great
soft shale
when you could pull mobs into bosses as sub
balmy condor
but holy shit this affix is actual rubbish
sonic schooner
well after pride, i feel naked in keys
balmy condor
I mean the extra powers don't even do that much
soft shale
tbh people will have to eventually get used to 4 min bosses
sonic schooner
Yo
timid talon
prideful made m+ too rigid, this is way more enjoyable
balmy condor
and the actual mini bosses are just pull into a pack
sonic schooner
what do u mean D:
balmy condor
and nuke
sonic schooner
yea minibosses tuning is so bad
soft shale
good shit when we are 250 we will blast 15s so ezz
soft shale
try a 18 -50% healing guy
sonic schooner
so i guess it s balanced
soft shale
like chain guys chains had 70k life on ptr
sonic schooner
i m doing all my 18 with a gdrood who pulls 3 pack with a miniboss on every single room of every single dungeons
looks great
soft shale
funniest shit is people that dont have rio installed
sonic schooner
soft shale
i wish i could do that pug life
balmy condor
"oh wow your score is only 50 above mine"
yeah but I did all keys on a 19 and you barely timed a 17
50 score
sonic schooner
the only mate i play with is a fury warrior, it s fun
balmy condor
halcyon zealot
ya idk how this score thing works, ive timed 2 15s and have like 400 score and im seeing people whos max key is like a 7 with like 1k
soft shale
yea good thing when we also get the fortified points the gap will widen a bit but still
sonic schooner
the thing that annoy me the most is the S1 rio i see on people is rigged
everyone has 2200 rio
halcyon zealot
yeah its dumb
sonic schooner
for timing 15 last seasons
balmy condor
that's just how it works now
soft shale
yea i have like 2300 from s1
soft shale
it looks so weird
sonic schooner
yea
balmy condor
I have 2300?
devout hazel
there is a channel for show sims here?
devout hazel
i want to know if i have a good one
balmy condor
there is a channel for show sims here?
the spec channels here are fine
sonic schooner
i had 2200 rio s1, and post s1 2398
soft shale
my highest tyr key was a 17
sonic schooner
while others were 1500 rio and now 2300
devout hazel
is for single target
balmy condor
yeh that seems fine
halcyon zealot
you prob want to be playing SF instead of Maim Mangle though no?
devout hazel
yea i dont want to use it
balmy condor
the lightless force is super weird
soft shale
yea celestial is huge value
devout hazel
yea i have my enchants from m plus xd
balmy condor
yea i dont want to use it
then don't?
sonic schooner
i think the new system would be so good if tyr and fort RIO were showed , and not both in a single number
balmy condor
leeching isn't a dps increase
soft shale
wait on m+ you drop sinful not celestial
balmy condor
you don't have to use it
halcyon zealot
@devout hazel run a sim with sudden fractures as a potency option
unless yours is like 145 or some wild shit
balmy condor
226 maim and wps
soft shale
wait mfd is only a 40 dps loss
balmy condor
are actually quite good
sonic schooner
dont use lightless on m+, sinful and celestial are way too strong if they didnt change anything about how it works
devout hazel
<@!160224066718924800> run a sim with sudden fractures as a potency option
im doing it rn
halcyon zealot
i got mad lucky and got 239 wps off tarrague this week
soft shale
yea lightless is only a sub thing more or less
sonic schooner
i thought it was good because AoE, but the effects of the 2 others are so great
balmy condor
yeah
halcyon zealot
damn
grim jay
I mean, its fine and I kinda like it considers both weekly affixes. it just takes some time to get used to the small numbers actually meaning something on higher scores
devout hazel
what enchants
sonic schooner
yea we have to adjust our view on numbers we see, i guess
devout hazel
the one who gives me 5 percent more damage on single
and the one with agility right
?
halcyon zealot
nice shoulders btw @devout hazel
balmy condor
the one who gives me 5 percent more damage on single
celestial/sinful
devout hazel
yea
sonic schooner
but if only we could see tyr and fortified rio instead of both added together in an one big number, it would be actually pretty sick
balmy condor
thats.... how it works though
I'm pretty sure it'll show the score for that dungeon for the current week
like when you hover over
idk maybe I'm wrong
but I thought it already did that
halcyon zealot
i think youre right i think youll have 2 "best runs" for every dungeon, one fort one tyran
halcyon zealot
that people will be able to see on the corresponding week
sonic schooner
yea
halcyon zealot
ya guess theres no way to tell til tuesday
balmy condor
yeah
devout hazel
Im doing a finally sim to see if with everything good i can get 7k dps wish me luck kekw
halcyon zealot
also am i getting baited by thinking the decanter trink off soulrender looks insane
halcyon zealot
7k club, u did it
balmy condor
also am i getting baited by thinking the decanter trink off soulrender looks ins...
yeah
it's not great
spice cargo
Any thoughts on PvP badge as 1min on-use for Venthyr?
teal mountain
why blindside instead of elaborate 1 good reason now
spice cargo
Once we get the venthyr legendary
spice cargo
No, I mean as in an on-use for in PvE
halcyon zealot
oh i misread, my b
spice cargo
Yeah, Im just trying to see if you guys also think it could be good once we get the legendary for flagellation cd reduction
Becuase im currently working on gearing up a rogue alt to play on mythic sylvanas
But i dont know much of rogue theorycrafting this xpac because i havent played it this expansion yet
spice cargo
Well ofc thats the goal, was probs going to get a remnant mythic in mh and sylv hc in oh
But since pvp badge is easily available as a trinket, its 1min CD just like flagellation will be with the new venthyr lego. I was wondering if that is strong or whether i should just go 2 passive trinkets
balmy condor
why blindside instead of elaborate 1 good reason now
cause it does more damage