Even if theotar sims higher I would suggest Nadjia. Cuz any amount of movement during soothing shade will nullify theotar’s usefulness
#assassination
nova flax
nova flax
Wdym
odd hazel
Why would movement nullify him
slender berry
u move away from the boss while thrillseeker is up no useful?
odd hazel
^
heavy coral
Any clue which trinkets from raid will be bis/good?
slender berry
also for right now youre not completly wrong but once you unlock the last trait the shade is a tiny bit of power you get from theo compared to the rest
odd hazel
No idea
final star
Any clue which trinkets from raid will be bis/good?
You can sim them now in droptemizer
nova flax
u move away from the boss while thrillseeker is up no useful?
? If a boss is moved during soothing shade and you follow it. U lose the buff. If a boss is moved during euphoria you can follow and still get value out of it.
slender berry
yea sure you can make up specific situations where that is true
nova flax
On a fight like Sire soothing Shade would be ass
slender berry
but that doesnt mean you just default not pick theotar
nova flax
I. What? You are literally losing the buff that picking theotar gives you if the boss gets moved.
strange python
You just have something for theotar huh
slender berry
nah just generalized untrue statements are a thorn in my eye
nova flax
Theotar simmed higher in keys for me last season. And i didnt ever take it because the tank was moving so much i would never get the full value out of it
slender berry
that is correct
upbeat needle
Just swapped Venthyr where the fuck do I get a Lashing Scars conduit from
nova flax
This man hates generalized untru statements but has provided no evidence to support his stance 
strange python
I’m still confused as to how it’s untrue lol
timid talon
its migel what do you expect
nova flax
It isnt generalized or untrue. Look at literally every sin rogue on logs. Every single on runnung Nadjia
slender berry
if something sims higher there are obviously more than enough situations in the gamee where you get the full value out of it so dont dismiss it
slender berry
those fights exist
slender berry
hungering destroyer huntsman
strange python
Huntsman definitely is not, shit can go so many different ways
nova flax
Huntsman has mechanics that cause you to get off the boss
And is often moved for adds
Sludge? Heavy movement. Artificier? Luck. Shriek? Movement.
shy dust
Theotar simmed higher in keys for me last season. And i didnt ever take it becau...
But you took thrill seeker?
nova flax
But you took thrill seeker?
Yes. Because tanks have to kite in mythic plus. So shit would get kited out of the shade. Also the door of shadows aoe stop is very nice in keys.
shy dust
But you know you lose value in thrill seeker too right
violet canyon
Is it worth crafting Zoldyck / Doom right now or should I just wait for Obedience ?
nova flax
Is it worth crafting Zoldyck / Doom right now or should I just wait for Obedienc...
Obedience
balmy condor
Is it worth crafting Zoldyck / Doom right now or should I just wait for Obedienc...
If you already have lego’s I would wait
oak sky
I think the reason theotar performed better in dungeons is because the nadjia traits give haste and 3% damage to 1 target, which both lose value in aoe while the theotar stuff is still good
nova flax
I think the reason theotar performed better in dungeons is because the nadjia tr...
I ran double potency. Not dauntless in keys.
shy dust
It’s not like you didn’t lose large value
oak sky
Thats kinda what im saying
nova flax
But you know you lose value in thrill seeker too right
Yes but mid pull if it procced i dont lose value. If shade procs mid pull and the tank is kiting i lose valud.
shy dust
And what about all that time where your stacks are rapidly dropping
slender berry
you compare best case vs worst case
violet canyon
If you already have lego’s I would wait
I currently don't started a rogue alt D:
nova flax
And what about all that time where your stacks are rapidly dropping
When would that be? You are pretty much constantly in combat in keys. At least during real keys.
oak sky
Nadjia and theotar are both pretty good in keys if you are venthyr tho
shy dust
During real keys
You’re in combat the entire time sounds very interesting
This sounds similar to the impossible to restealth
balmy condor
I currently don't started a rogue alt D:
I would craft like 210’s and then see what happens obedience wise
shy dust
For MA to be value
nova flax
You’re in combat the entire time sounds very interesting
You go from 1 pull to the next. I dont run MA in sin keys either. I run zoldyck
shy dust
My hatred for m+ “big brains” grows
oak sky
Hell i ran dauntless duelist in keys because i was too lazy to swap
nova flax
Im only ever out of combat for 1 or 2 seconds at a time to restealth for subterfuge garrotes
oak sky
I know it was worse
slender berry
just say you dont like theotar and you think nadja is better for you in most cases no need to tell people to never pick him even if he sims higher
arctic hare
Heh, i forgot that I had to switch off of dauntless
shy dust
Thrill seeker was amazing on council
Getting that juicy haste injection while I’m dancing
oak sky
They were close enough with double potency that it didnt matter in dungeons i think
So you just go what works for you yeah?
shy dust
Yes because there was a substantial difference in the strength of the binds in st
nova flax
just say you dont like theotar and you think nadja is better for you in most cas...
Im saying that sims shouldnt be treated like the bible
arctic hare
Okay, I’ve lost track of the conversation, what are we talking about?
shy dust
But why did you run thrill seeker
If you never got full value out of thrillseeker
Why didn’t you swap
oak sky
Dd was sick for raid tho
nova flax
If you never got full value out of thrillseeker
Because i get even less value out of shade. Hello? Do you do keys?
shy dust
No I’ve never stepped into a key actually
arctic hare
Shade stays still doesn’t it?
oak sky
Yes
primal zodiac
well the original question was if theotar is worth it atm cause of an aditional potency
nova flax
No I’ve never stepped into a key actually
Then why are you arguing something you dont have experience with or understand.
oak sky
I dont think it is in st
shy dust
True
oak sky
But maybe
nova flax
Regardless it doesnt matter. In 2 days nadjia is gonna have the potency too lmao.
arctic hare
I can see shade being useful in a stationary bossfight in mythic keys, but i can also see why you wouldn’t choose it since most bosses make you stay still for the most part
Or move around lol
oak sky
I think a lot of it was about trash packs though
arctic hare
Right
primal zodiac
well, yes. but that wasnt what you answered. you talked about situations where you lose shade, but ignored situations where you lose thrill
arctic hare
Since trash packs have you moving almost constantly
nova flax
Bossfights arent really the issue. The issue this tier was u had to do massive trash pulls and the tanks had to kite
primal zodiac
thats the issue for people i think
nova flax
Now BFA keys? Where tanks did massive pulls and could just tank it all with massive verse? Theotar all the way.
arctic hare
Thrill is a buff, how would you lose it?
arctic hare
Now BFA keys? Where tanks did massive pulls and could just tank it all with mass...
Heh, those were very interesting days
Right
nova flax
The stacks drop off rapidly while out of combat. But ur only out of combat for 1 or 2 seconds at a time for a restealth.
oak sky
So i think the argument was that you could potentially stack it at bad times
And also lose your progress to it
Idk though i never had big problems with it and i full pugged everything
arctic hare
Hmm, honestly, what i see here is the fact that each one is viable and each one has its upsides and downsides
oak sky
Yeah thats pretty much it
nova flax
Theotar would also probsbly be better in 15 keys where tanks dont kite or pull big. But also if ur doing keys that low just play outlaw. Sin wont have time to do damage at that level anyways.
Trash will die before ur dots do anything
oak sky
Lol you should see puggers at that key level
shy dust
Try doing some keys
arctic hare
I have, but i don’t think it ended too well
oak sky
I was top damage very frequently
shy dust
It’s not that bad to get in
oak sky
Not that my damage was high tho
shy dust
Not doing a 10
Is not much effort into keys
Get your 15s in brother
The vault is calling
arctic hare
Yeah, but I wasn’t playing much, and yeah yeah, i know
oak sky
Unguss, in 15 pugs i was doing 5k-6k depending on the dungeon and that was usually top
arctic hare
I fully plan on getting ksm this patch
shy dust
Best of luck on that
nova flax
Unguss, in 15 pugs i was doing 5k-6k depending on the dungeon and that was usual...
Thats pretty good
arctic hare
Unguss, in 15 pugs i was doing 5k-6k depending on the dungeon and that was usual...
Is that bad?
oak sky
Thats how 15 pugs work
shy dust
Hopefully rogue has a more secure spot in the meta so you can get into keys easier
arctic hare
Yeah, true
oak sky
Pulls are small and nobody does good damage
nova flax
I do on average 7k in 15 pugs
shy dust
Read guides and become better
nova flax
And the ppl i saw. Yikes.
shy dust
It’s not hard to improve yourself
oak sky
Yeah
shy dust
Especially with how much information is available
oak sky
I feel like for sin i know a good amount
nova flax
And practice. Reading will only help you so much. If u bash ur head into keys enough ull get better at them
oak sky
A lot of it is just running more keys
Im new this season
I climbed from m0 not kicking to ksm
nova flax
The biggest thing about doing damage in keys is using ur cooldowns on cooldown honestly.
Use vendetta every chance u can. Vanish on CD for more garrotes. if the pack will live about 10 seconds longer
nova flax
Also in sin keys ur vanish and ur vendetta are 2 different cooldowns
oak sky
I always did it on prides though
nova flax
Dont sync them
nova flax
Yeah
kind talon
rae why are you being wholesome dude
arctic hare
So, this’ll be interesting
oak sky
I feel like i didnt plateau at ksm though i had more improving i could do
kind talon
go back to making ligma jokes
arctic hare
lol
kind talon
o
arctic hare
I’m not really a newcomer anymore lol
shy dust
I only mock the regulars who I speak to often
oak sky
I definitely want to attempt to hit 20s
arctic hare
Oh god, I haven’t even tried to imagine 20s yet
oak sky
But my first priority is ce
arctic hare
I believe the highest key i have ever done is a 16?
arctic hare
Oh?
strange python
I did my first 18 a few days ago :D was fine
arctic hare
I think it was mechagon
strange python
I was playing bear tho lmao
oak sky
Bear is good
arctic hare
Unless you screw up bad enough lol
oak sky
Sounds fun if you like tanking
oak sky
Incarn go brrrer
strange python
but it turns out fine
arctic hare
lol, i forgot that bears can use incarnation as well
strange python
Mhm 1 button spec
arctic hare
The rest of today and part of tmr and I’ll be home and ready to play me some of my rogueeeeee!
strange python
I’m a feral player turned rogue btw, that’s why I have a bear lol
strange python
feral stinky :(
forest delta
have you guys crafted 235 doom cloak?
arctic hare
I’m a feral player turned rogue btw, that’s why I have a bear lol
I can relate, i am the exact same way
oak sky
Nah
shy dust
have you guys crafted 235 doom cloak?
No
strange python
I can relate, i am the exact same way
Pog
oak sky
Im gonna wait and see if i need it
arctic hare
Yeahhh, feral was fun
shy dust
It’s recommended to
arctic hare
Until it wasn’t
strange python
I just wanna be useful in aoe
arctic hare
Pffft, trueeeee
arctic hare
The aoe rip just straight up sucked
oak sky
I already have hands, but if i get domination sockets/obedience ends up good i wont need it yet
brisk imp
wait until R6 base then just direct craft, or R5 if you want early
shy dust
Nor specifically on the spot that occupies doomblade
arctic hare
wait until R6 base then just direct craft, or R5 if you want early
I had forgotten about your profile pic for years
Until just now…
brisk imp
lol
I'm also holding all legendary crafting until we see if Sub is actually as strong as predicted
arctic hare
I don’t miss it, yet I do lol
Rogue, the most fun dot class
Prove me wrong!
Well, sin rogue, the most fun dot spec
shy dust
Idk about that one
shy dust
The dots aren’t even meaningful
nova flax
They do damage lol
they are more of a dot class on aoe fights where garrote and CT take over. bot in ST its literally all mut/melee/envenom lmao
arctic hare
Thats not part of dh’s base kit lol
arctic hare
they are more of a dot class on aoe fights where garrote and CT take over. bot i...
True, unless you’re running doomblade
shy dust
i mean shadow priest dots do damage
nova flax
in ST the dots are more there for the enrgy regen KEK
arctic hare
And boy is that energy regen great
arctic hare
Oh?
nova flax
oh yeah
arctic hare
Now I’m curious
arctic hare
So, how the heck does exang work
shy dust
arctic hare
Does it just double the ticks?
plain thistle
oak sky
Play some fury warrior rogue instead
arctic hare
Its crazy how bfa actually ended up making blizzard change classes completely
gloomy rose
sin ouperforms sub any day in fun 
hollow river
sin suffers from downtime same as sub
arctic hare
Not as much because of their bleeds
solar flicker
no way it's nearly as bad sub is losing out on dance reset
velvet haven
I'm sure both specs will have their better fight
arctic hare
Oh undoubtedly
kind talon
thats not the differenc
arctic hare
They still give it less downtime
hollow river
....
velvet haven
Our melees do be stabby
oak sky
Downtime 
arctic hare
Our melees do be stabby
True
kind talon
yuh
hollow river
sin still suffers
velvet haven
Also windfury is a beautiful thing
hollow river
just the same
arctic hare
Yeah, but because they have bleeds they suffer slightly less
solar flicker
same lego for 2 specs is juicy
velvet haven
I auto'd the last boss of mists almost 500 times in 48 seconds
hollow river
downtime during a shiv...suffers....downtime during vendetta...BIG suck
sub gets dance up so fast
stop worrying about downtime
velvet haven
But same time dance is subs windows no? Without it they're very meh
arctic hare
I auto'd the last boss of mists almost 500 times in 48 seconds
Sounds amazing
velvet haven
Where outside our cds were still good
oak sky
Shiv getting parried
oak sky
Backstab is making the point that sin also suffers a lot from downtime
oak sky
Its not really a competition
velvet haven
That's weird
oak sky
Even ranged can suffer from movement depending on the class
arctic hare
Heh, balance
oak sky
Its uncommon, but it can happen
solar flicker
okay right the question i'm asking is there a big enough gap in which spec suffers more from downtime that in a practical scenario sub will shave enough dps off the sim dps that sin will be competitive
viscid spear
Isn’t that true for every class, except maybe survival
It's called Survival for a reason
hollow river
okay right the question i'm asking is there a big enough gap in which spec suffe...
no. there is not a gap. kthxbyew
velvet haven
No, I’m saying thay they suck at dmging
Which is ironic
arctic hare
I haven’t kept tabs on it for years
velvet haven
Because they're highest simming hunter spec
oak sky
Year of the spear
oak sky
Nice aoe
kind talon
jinx
arctic hare
Because they're highest simming hunter spec
You’ve gotta be joking
oak sky
Very nice
arctic hare
Sounds, funnnnnnnn
viscid spear
No, I’m saying thay they suck at dmging
I mean it's harder to be a Survival Hunter because no one wants one.
kind talon
shit
velvet haven
I was windwalker main
arctic hare
lol, true
velvet haven
I'm swapping rogue because monk not doing well
kind talon
ye
kind talon
ye
arctic hare
Have mistweavers been returned to their former glory of not using mana like an alcoholic downing 5 drinks
oak sapphire
my monk friend is pulling like 11k in an 18 atm
kind talon
it was not bad at all 9.5
oak sapphire
but shes pretty nutty
oak sky
Mw is somewhat ok
oak sky
Monk is incredibly good for m+ rn
oak sky
Ww
velvet haven
kind talon
y is ur sadge so compressed
arctic hare
For instance, dks were gods of their wrath days
velvet haven
Mop mw was the most fun spec for healing of all time
kind talon
yuh
arctic hare
They're seeing life this patch tho
Bout time
velvet haven
Demonic build is playable again but momentum still better
velvet haven
It's just too good in pvp
kind talon
momentum is sick
arctic hare
Yeah, and its extremely complicated not to dash into the abyss
tall flower
oak sky
!mut
prisma monolithBOT
Ambush is currently only used from blindside/sepsis proc, not from stealth.
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3).
Some other factors to consider are increased poison applications, blindside, and doomblade. This is true for all talent combinations and legendaries.
velvet haven
Idek when to use blindside
oak sky
Pure st or execute
arctic hare
When it procs I assume
kind talon
st
velvet haven
Ok
kind talon
bs deeper
arctic hare
Gives free combo points
oak sky
Scaling
arctic hare
I just need to get better at openers in general
oak sky
Blindside is good for execute like i was saying, higher proc chance at 35% or below
Lots of free cps during a burn
arctic hare
Wasn’t it 40%?
oak sky
Might be
prisma monolithBOT
Macroing Ambush to Mutilate only works with the use of a addon.
It comes with the downside that it often requires multiple key presss.
Suggested addon to use(Gnome Sequencer):http://tiny.cc/mxb6tz
Showcase Video: #assassination message
oak sky
Yeah
arctic hare
Which in single target is almost allllll the time
kind talon
ya thats why its best st talent
arctic hare
Makes sense
oak sky
It feels really good too
arctic hare
I still have yet to understand why MA is so good though
kind talon
yes its more button
kind talon
I still have yet to understand why MA is so good though
because 50% crit
turns out to be
strong
arctic hare
And?
kind talon
lole
arctic hare
Its just crit though
arctic hare
Wouldn’t the stronger garrote be more useful?
kind talon
no
arctic hare
Oh….
arctic hare
Shiv vendetta….
oak sky
The garrote is good when you get a lot of restealths
arctic hare
Right
oak sky
Like in dungeons
arctic hare
Makes sense
kind talon
its not bad in raid fights that are sustained cleave actually
arctic hare
But in a raid setting you don’t for the most part
kind talon
huntsman
arctic hare
Sunking
kind talon
no
arctic hare
Wha? But that bossfight is all cleave
arctic hare
Hmm, i suppose thats true
Now gotta figure out how to actually open properly
Once I get back anyways
Well, imma rest for a bit, I’ll be back later
upbeat needle
just swapped Vent how can I upgrade lashing scars
pure sinew
!ambush
prisma monolithBOT
Macroing Ambush to Mutilate only works with the use of a addon.
It comes with the downside that it often requires multiple key presss.
Suggested addon to use(Gnome Sequencer):http://tiny.cc/mxb6tz
Showcase Video: #assassination message
pure sinew
just swapped Vent how can I upgrade lashing scars
do sire
whats giving me ambush procs
and should i use it
im venth so its not the nf ability
oh blindside
oak sapphire
where would we be building Obedience?
oak sapphire
Merci
dry void
whats the range of shadowgrasp totem?
balmy condor
oh blindside
thorny pond
<a:thinkge:834162718663507988>
You’re mean
eternal turtle
is every1 just capped on cataloged research? no clue what to spend it on
thorny pond
Pull out the emote when things go sideways
eternal turtle
stuck in tier 3 while capped
thorny pond
Lol
azure bronze
is every1 just capped on cataloged research? no clue what to spend it on
I just bought 5 teleport thingies
and kept deleting them
thorny pond
Spend it
eternal turtle
nice system
south belfry
What should i be watching for in logs if i want to improve?
south belfry
I'd like to learn to analyze them myself
But i dont know what im looking for
Expect like Garrote and Rupture uptime
thorny pond
I’d start with talents
BS/DS or EP/Vigor
If you have lashing that’s your best conduit
Your opener on hungering looks good
If you need to move during CDs for things like consume or expunge is really it
winged basin
My guild has just erupted in anger that the research system is fine so I just look at em like 
plush remnant
If obedience isn't changed. Would we want to stay necro until mythic week and swap to venthyr?
odd hazel
Go venth now
tired citrus
you have the free swap dw
worthy moth
lol
night bronze
How works the free swap? Just need talking oribos npc?
tired citrus
generally its down to what boss you will get stuck at imho if its pure ST venthyr is better . I generally prefer necrolord playstyle for both sin/outlaw
odd hazel
I mean
With obedience venth is better@even in m+
If you play both specs
Just stay necro
south belfry
I’d start with talents
Ah i didnt know some of them compliment each other better
tired citrus
heroic week shouldnt matter for most guilds and you can still catch up on 48 anyway if you are necro now
plush remnant
What have you guys found to be the best to farm for renown catchup? I tried m0 and heroic raid and didn't get any for the first few kills
lone minnow
thats pretty pog
placid dawn
So, I hear sub rogue is good now, is it better than sin?
thorny pond
potentailly
strange python
What do y'all think it's the most afk way to farm renown
bright bane
So, I hear sub rogue is good now, is it better than sin?
You can also take a look at wlog 9.1
There is already some data
Sub looks fine on a farm environment
also pumping hard on 5+ target
(dormazain, roh-kalo)
undone eagle
guys did you do venthyr assault?? did you get your soul cinders?
I didnt get anything when i killed the boss in the ned
end
hollow river
I didnt get anything when i killed the boss in the ned
you might need to go talk to Bolvar
or your add ons are messing with it. disable addons, /reload. if nothing still go to Bolvar
lone wren
I didnt get anything when i killed the boss in the ned
You have to turn in the quest
undone eagle
nah i just didnt notice the chest i got in my inventory haha, problem solved
echo geyser
Imagine if it gives u energy regen too
thorny pond
Neither scenario is true
Garrote and Rupture are only 2 that return energy. Even says in the spell text
rugged heron
imagine if it did benefit doomblade though
thorny pond
Imagine if it counted your deadly poison too
thorny pond
Literally every time a bleed trinket comes out sin channel loses their shit
We did it back at new Moroes
And everything in between
void pecan
SO UH, do I just swap back to venth and make new lego now? Or wait for tuning. Someone make the choice for me
slender berry
reroll survival , year of the spear baby
thorny pond
SO UH, do I just swap back to venth and make new lego now? Or wait for tuning. S...
Obedience isn’t available yet
void pecan
But i'll be semi-behind if I wait cuz renown yeah?
I'm 40 already with them, so maybe not?
drowsy parcel
you can always catch up to max renown
void pecan
I'm max already with them, switched from them.
drowsy parcel
40 isnt max
void pecan
.
lone minnow
what is max soul cinder to have in this week?
austere ruin
270
lone minnow
ait ty
mental trout
can any one help with what i am doing wrong here? I cant imagine at ILVL 219 that my sim is this low on a 5 Min Patchwork fight...
void pecan
Sword offhand
mental trout
ahhh
hollow river
mental trout
lmao i knew some thing was happening
ashen yacht
Guys just wondering when I open on AoE what order to I do CT, Rupture and SnD?
Like what do I spend on first
wispy leaf
@balmy condor in sim sheet there is a typo. shouldn't it be "11063" instead of "11603" ? (assa ST) sorry for the ping
winter vapor
what are folks picking as second potency cnduit, well placed steel? (heirmir)
viscid spear
what are folks picking as second potency cnduit, well placed steel? (heirmir)
Yeah, both Venthyr & Necro go for their Cov conduit and then WPS
viscid spear
Katar and Lethal are both great in M+.
Since you're Necro you get even more out of Sudden Fracture in multi-target situations than Venthyr would with Lashing
south belfry
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
winter vapor
seems I'll need to remember to change conduits between raid and M+, ty 🙂
viscid spear
Shame it's not as easy as Night Fae where you had Niya for raid and Korayn for M+
I'm just glad I switched off NF
balmy condor
<@!167090536602140682> in sim sheet there is a typo. shouldn't it be "11063" ins...
you a genius I was confused on that for a while huge thanks
clear shadow
is there any way to sync vendetta with the hermir crit or is it not possible
balmy condor
it syncs naturally
balmy condor
it procs on pull and then has a 1 min cd
clear shadow
oh ok thanks
dull osprey
Do I hold flage for vend (usually ~30s) or just smash the shiny button?
spice spire
Smash on CD only if you’ll miss a cast, but 99% of time you’ll end up syncing
dull osprey
gotcha
thorny pond
Do I hold flage for vend (usually ~30s) or just smash the shiny button?
Smesh. They’ll line up with obedience
nova flax
I hope they nerf obedience so i can play tiny toxic blade
abstract jolt
do the pinned sims not include the other covenant specific legendaries because they are just terrible?
or worse then doomblade?
nova flax
Pls no i wanna stay venthyr for keys
fallen arch
So I can be stinkyboy again
azure flare
dont go venth now until tuning tbh unless u wanna lvl renown
i think if u leave necro ull trigger betrayer on it
since its your current cov but not sure 
proper nest
You get a one time free covenant swap so if you played necro before and they nerf the leggo than you can go back to necro without doing the betrayer thing
whole bluff
"betrayer" sounds like I teamed up with Jailer and totally didn't save each covenant like 10 times
knotty heron
On the legendary pin, what is Obedience?
Oh its the Venthyr leggo? It is simmijg higher than doom blade?
tulip nacelle
yes
knotty heron
Well shit
floral moat
is necro better early on?
nova flax
is necro better early on?
Both are viable and you will do fine with either. Play what you enjoy more.
honest silo
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
light surge
!sbs
light surge
I thought there was info on sbs useage
faint harness
!sbs
nova flax
I thought there was info on sbs useage
Check pins
faint harness
you get it as a message
nova flax
In Outlaw channel
faint harness
check ur messages
odd hazel
Use it during opener, dump during gemstones, put it on any target that doesn’t have it, and don’t let it cap
balmy condor
I thought there was info on sbs useage
we use sbs to dot, extend lbe, during gemstone, for kevin, or if you're going to overcap
light surge
I wanted to check if you use if during gemstone and during shiv window
balmy condor
not during shiv
mint narwhal
!sbs
faint harness
on the bench
light surge
not during shiv
even with gemstone up
drowsy parcel
odd hazel
6 feet under
white igloo
If I start heroic dungeon spamming to get to renown 24 and then do the story, where should the story land me in renown level?
Starting from 0
sonic spire
If I start heroic dungeon spamming to get to renown 24 and then do the story, wh...
Should be 9 chapters and I think they made it 2 renown per chapter so 18 total renown
balmy condor
even with gemstone up
if gemstone is up, you cast, because it's during gemstone
granite fjord
Do we still want haste and crit for the doom cloak!?
balmy condor
yes
granite fjord
Sweet! Thanks @balmy condor you are da best!
balmy condor
umbral rapids
<:whispyrheart:838654033618272256>
obedience doesn't change that i suppose right?
balmy condor
change what
umbral rapids
the stats
balmy condor
no
umbral rapids
obtuse robin
waiting for updated sin sims 
balmy condor
waiting for updated sin sims <:feelsloveman:587982296519278593>
yeah pins aren't gonna be updated till later tonight
but the sheet itself is updated
so you can check that
obtuse robin
sub 
proper halo
should we still use krakens eye of agility for 1 socket?
tulip nacelle
sim it, kraken def no tho, leviathan maybe
dim ledge
flag or shiv first on opener?
sharp haven
sorry this sounds like a stupid question im getting back into the game, but does the nature damage buff from shiv increase the damge from phial since its also nature damage?
balmy condor
flag or shiv first on opener?
Flag
balmy condor
sorry this sounds like a stupid question im getting back into the game, but does...
There’s a note of this on the faq in the pins, short answer no
sharp haven
got it thanks
dim ledge
ty
sick acorn
wouldnt necro still be better in raid due to all the cleave fights??
hollow river
oh shit discounts on race change atm
timid talon
time to go mechagnome boys
odd hazel
wouldnt necro still be better in raid due to all the cleave fights??
with obedience venth is better all around
odd hazel
time to go mechagnome boys
should have been from the start you posers
gusty mirage
should have been from the start you posers
odd hazel
white igloo
Right, but without obedience, necro is better?
until it actually comes out and we seee
odd hazel
i mean, if you're necro sure
gusty mirage
no venthyr still wins in ST, but they're closer
balmy condor
without obedience we're back to currently
toxic wasp
hi all. is it normal that sins have much downtime in the rotation?
spice spire
Mechagnome gamers 
balmy condor
where necro is good, venthyr is good, and both are fine
balmy condor
hi all. is it normal that sins have much downtime in the rotation?
yes
toxic wasp
thx a lot
strange silo
The instant cov swap does work now right? so i only need the first quest to change?
balmy condor
yes
toxic wasp
y
strange silo
alright good that i safed it and didnt turn it in xd
odd hazel
Mechagnome gamers <:YIKERS:859932833732624404>
people who arent mechagnomes just have a bad time
spice spire
Disagree gamer
wind totem
Which prof crafts the back item for legendaries? Alternatively - what is it called?
balmy condor
tailoring
sleek sundial
Tailor i think
drifting cloud
yes technically all backs are cloth
wind totem
Alright cool thanks
toxic wasp
another question pls. sins using 2x oil for weapons or 1x oil and 1x stone?
hollow river
!oil
prisma monolithBOT
Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ
balmy condor
damn faster than me
hollow river
Hi
umbral rapids
damn faster than me
that's what sh...
toxic wasp
ah fml, i forget these command, but i know it^^ thx
hollow river
A lot of people just run stones on both weps
viscid spear
Turns out they upped the Razorwing Eggs to 10.
Maelie is still bugged since I found her on patch day.
hollow river
Lol I have 1 egg
umbral rapids
Turns out they upped the Razorwing Eggs to 10.
Maelie is still bugged since I fo...
the fuck
hollow river
But I petted the horse once!
dense cedar
Venthyr > Necro cos i'm too bad to use sbs
hollow river
And I fed the mushroom to the bear once!
umbral rapids
man i was at 4 
white jetty
whats the fastest way to get some agi daggers atm? i dont have any friends that play rogue as to farm m+
dense cedar
hollow river
No idea what I’m doing
dense cedar
@white jetty Korthia drops upgradeable ones
hollow river
whats the fastest way to get some agi daggers atm? i dont have any friends that ...
M+ prolly best bet
And korthia yea
Hard rng there tho
dense cedar
I only had outlaw weapons going into the patch
and the game gave me 2 daggers really quick
white jetty
and the game gave me 2 daggers really quick
oh fuck nice
dense cedar
might've jsut been lucky tho
white jetty
i currently have a 200 and 207 which are viable but drop my dps by a toooon
what are the korthia ones called?
gusty mirage
no idea the exact name but you get them from the Korthian Armaments(?)
teal mountain
quick question, zoldyck is still better in mm+ than the venthyr leg ?
gusty mirage
Check the pins and ye shall find what you seek
gusty mirage
well there's the dungeonslice sims as the most recent pin
velvet haven
from what i see we're likely using Obedience in all forms of content according to recent sims x:
velvet haven
I've been hesitant on it too
teal mountain
will wait the 48 renow like everyone >_<
velvet haven
stockpiling soul ash for 48, but i have to raid heroic on friday
gusty mirage
Just wait to see what happens over the next few weeks
velvet haven
so i prob gotta craft a tier 3 at least doomblade as a placeholder
teal mountain
doomblade is on a back now
velvet haven
ik
teal mountain
so annoying
gusty mirage
don't stress upgrading anything unless you're rocking a r1 or r2 still
velvet haven
currently i only have tier 2 zoldyk
nothing else crafted
just running 15s to try and be ready for the 9th
mental flicker
currently i only have tier 2 zoldyk
U and I are in exact same boat. I’m waiting. Next couple of weeks won’t count for anything anyway
velvet haven
¯_(ツ)_/¯
indigo mulch
Who knows, and who cares. Soul ash is "easy" to farm anyway.
velvet haven
I think either sylv daggers or obi will get hammered
yeah I'll have to farm on alts to send over
dense cedar
i can see them leaving the daggers alone tbh
velvet haven
since the rogue has 2k atm
indigo mulch
Doubt it will be daggers, have you seen warriors weapon? :c they are absolut beasts
dense cedar
since they only affect 1 rogue
viscid spear
viscid spear
Used a Soultwining Crescent and it gave me Lashing 213
velvet haven
downfall of main swapping lol
vague falcon
@balmy condor hey, any reason why dslice went down in your updated sheet with sylv daggers compared to pins?
viscid spear
Guessing that's not that impressive
balmy condor
<@!167090536602140682> hey, any reason why dslice went down in your updated shee...
fatal flaws got hit
was implemented wrong
so it was basically doubling itself
vague falcon
and pins says 11399 for theo
it is definitely using sylv daggers in the sheet but maybe not mythic versions?
balmy condor
seems as though it's missing gems
trail anvil
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
covert belfry
does assa have any use for ambush if not using blindside?
balmy condor
no
covert belfry
free bar space 
kind talon
Less buttons to press
Boomer spec
Chads go blindside in aoe
Just to have more buttons to press
oak sky
Ambush bound 
arctic hare
free bar space <:poggers:652288776021999626>
I simply put it on a spot where I can still have it handy whenever I need it
viscid spear
haha ambush go brrr
covert belfry
seems like elaborate planning would go well with crimson tempest in aoe right
arctic hare
It does afaik
kind talon
It pairs with vigor
oak sky
You have good energy regen in aoe so you spam finishers with ep
kind talon
Has nothing to do with CT tbh
oak sky
Get some nice uptime
kind talon
Benefits more from low cp ruptures in aoe situations
arctic hare
I used to spam CT to do dps, exactly how bad of an idea was that?
covert belfry
but CT is aoe finisher -> more finisher damage -> spam CT?
oak sky
No
covert belfry
is it not like feral primal wrath
arctic hare
No
oak sky
You maintain the ct dot and spread ruptures
wind totem
Anyone else hoping fan of knives gets the shuriken storm treatment and gives cp without critting? 
upbeat needle
Do I have to do Venari to upgrade a conduit on an alt if I have the conduit upgrade unlocked on main?
arctic hare
It isn’t really
kind talon
It’s not finished damage
oak sky
If everything is fully dotted then you envenom
arctic hare
You maintain the ct dot and spread ruptures
Well ik that now lol
kind talon
I used to spam CT to do dps, exactly how bad of an idea was that?
U probably let snd fall off by not pressing envenom
Which is cringe
kind talon
It’s ok
arctic hare
I sucked at aoe until recently lol
kind talon
I did that too 🙂
covert belfry
so for aoe you spread garrote from stealth, put CT on, spam fan of knives and put rupture on everything?
arctic hare
When I knew how good rupture was in it
oak sky
Yes spiffo
kind talon
Yes spiffing
oak sky
But if you have a prio target you get 5 bleeds and pump that guy with envenoms
arctic hare
So, why is it that if there are 5 enemies, i use it, why doesn’t it give full combo points
oak sky
Fan is based on crits
kind talon
It only gives 1 cp
arctic hare
fan of knives I mean
kind talon
Rest is crit based
kind talon
Yes
oak sky
Yes
arctic hare
Oh
oak sky
Seal fate
arctic hare
Thats, actually really good to know lol
balmy condor
Ep also is just all damage so when you take ct you’re doing aoe, and when you’re doing aoe ep is just better
covert belfry
whats the best order to set all your shit up on this spec? you you garrote from stealth and then you have to set up bone spike, rupture, and slice and dice
balmy condor
Not really connected to a vigor thing
arctic hare
So why not spam crimson tempest when it does instant dmg?
balmy condor
whats the best order to set all your shit up on this spec? you you garrote from ...
We don’t play with subterfuge normally
balmy condor
So why not spam crimson tempest when it does instant dmg?
Cause it’s not worth it
arctic hare
Oh, hmm, okay
kind talon
whats the best order to set all your shit up on this spec? you you garrote from ...
First finisher is always snd
You only play subterfuge in mythic plus and cleave
spice spire
Cause it’s not worth it
You’re worth it tho 
oak sky
covert belfry
I've been doing garrote->bone spike->rupture->mutilate->slice and dice->into rotation
mental trout
Sylv Dagger, any one know if it is working as intended yet? 
covert belfry
should I swap rupture and s&d?
dense cedar
is this in aoe?
covert belfry
no
balmy condor
I've been doing garrote->bone spike->rupture->mutilate->slice and dice->into rot...
I would suggest reading one of the guides found here
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
balmy condor
lot of core problems with that
dense cedar
Reading is for nerds
arctic hare
But nerds are cool
dense cedar
Deeper strat simming higher for me
arctic hare
Well, yeah
dense cedar
my gear is bad so it was vigor until i equip a new piece
balmy condor
dense cedar
yuh
balmy condor
are you like a fresh 60?
balmy condor
youch
dense cedar
my fault for leaving the game at launch
covert belfry
what were the core problems?
looks like you just slice and dice after garrote and then proceed as I was
umbral rapids
There’s an example opener in the guides
covert belfry
yeah im looking at them
oak sky
Are you talking st in dungeons, because in raid you just play MA not subterfuge
dense cedar
should perhaps use MA over sub
viscid spear
So Deeper is simming higher than Vigor?
covert belfry
I dont raid
dense cedar
for normal people ye
covert belfry
so no
arctic hare
So wait
umbral rapids
Aaah ok
arctic hare
Does DS just make it easier to make combo points?
oak sky
Ideally snd is still up from the last trash pack
arctic hare
Hmm., dang
I just can’t see how its good to have 50 less energy, especially with the lackluster energy gain
oak sky
Ds makes all finishers do more and lets you do 6 point stuff so its big damage
arctic hare
Hmm, true
arctic hare
Making it easier to manage bleeds
But what about the energy loss from it?
Does the extended rupture dmg help with that enough to offset the loss in energy
arctic hare
Hmm, okay
oak sky
You pool harder i guess
dense cedar
I miss perma EP
arctic hare
Yeah, i can guess that, i know for a fact that rogue already has more base energy than feral, so thats nice
EP, crap, what was that
dense cedar
Elaborate Planning
balmy condor
single target but with an aoe talent setup
you would sbs, snd (if you don't have it up already), garrote mut rup vend shiv, and then muts into envenoms, vanishing to do 1 garrote once the first garrote is within pandemic. If gemstones procs during your opener, you would dump the charges of sbs in place of mutilates
arctic hare
So, would 204 be considered severely undergeared?
balmy condor
yes
dense cedar
yup
balmy condor
204 is fresh out of leveling
arctic hare
Oh…