assassination

[kind talon]

But prevents certain drama too imo

[oak sky]

In terms of usage theres no problem with spriest pi-ing another target, it just feels bad to use a personal cd as a dps on someone else

[tribal marlin]

Otherwise if funneling PI become a cheese that trivialise game mechanics, then it's an issue.

[oak sky]

So i would support changing pi on spriest only for that reason

[kind talon]

i agree with that

[oak sky]

But like i said i think disc and holy are just fine

And with current tuning spriest is fine too

The problem only exists if priest dips below the best st

[kind talon]

why is my top giving me way less score

?

[balmy condor]

yo fuck

#wow-general

get your complaining about other classes out of spec channels

wtf

[balmy condor]

r.io merged with blizz.io

[kind talon]

ya but like

top 18 is giving less than

sd 15

????

[balmy condor]

yeh dunno

[oak sky]

Wur

[ruby birch]

Uh what

[balmy condor]

probably a bug

[steep vessel]

Just coming back, covenants pretty universal?

[tribal marlin]

Would you keep your sharing about your morning routine out of spec channel too if we do ?

[balmy condor]

gonna get fixed eventually

[steep vessel]

dps wise

[oak sky]

Yo chiiiill

[tribal marlin]

chill i'm just kidding

[kind talon]

venthyr is miles ahead

[oak sky]

Lmao

[ruby birch]

The key itself should be higher, but if you have higher than an 18 ToP and your 18 ToP is the alternate weekly affix between tryan and fort then it will give less

[reef axle]

We waiting for obedience? Or craft doom blade back?

[balmy condor]

waiting to see what happens with obed

[kind talon]

nah like

its blue?

[reef axle]

Hopefully nothing 😂

[tribal marlin]

Pretty sure you can farm infinit soul ash anyway

[ruby birch]

Did you time it

[kind talon]

yes

[tribal marlin]

but for Soul cinders, might be wise to wait a bit yeah

[vast forum]

@balmy condor what's the poison bug?

[kind talon]

!pb

[prisma monolith]

Deadly Poison doesn't apply on some casts like Garrote, Rupture, and Shiv.
It's a minor bug but "notable" in that it does have some noticeable impact on DPS.
Should be around a 100-200 dps loss

[kind talon]

@vast forum

[ruby birch]

Is it barely timed

[kind talon]

prolly

[oak sky]

Oh they arent orange anymore past ksm

[kind talon]

prolly 20+ is orange

[ruby birch]

Is your 15 SD +2ed or +3ed?

[oak sky]

Damn my m+ page is gonna look bad

[ruby birch]

Cuz then that could explain it

[kind talon]

maybe

[tribal marlin]

orange is 275+ score I guess

[reef axle]

True but buying the back piece over and over again can get expensive

[kind talon]

i mean

my 18 top

is giving less than any other key

15s 16s and 17s

[tribal marlin]

may be a bug

[kind talon]

prolly

[wise fiber]

Im getting draven as top sim (with renown 42) is that about right?

[kind talon]

ill have to do a higher one anyways

[tribal marlin]

My 18 TOP is giving me same than my 18 Mist

[kind talon]

270?

[tribal marlin]

275

[balmy condor]

are you simming triple potency theotar as well

[tribal marlin]

#wow-general btw 🙂

[wise fiber]

Yeah. only one missing is Nadja. (43)

[balmy condor]

probably okay to play draven then

his buff is pretty good

[kind talon]

league of draven

dont have access to sims rn

whats the 3rd potenct

i assume first 2 are lashing and wps?

[hollow river]

did anyone else get stuck on the NF assault?

[balmy condor]

lashing wps and then maim if you're running doomblade

[kind talon]

o cool

[tribal marlin]

Built for War maybe

isn't it better than 3rd potency ?

[wise fiber]

We still running Zold for dungeons?

[kind talon]

what is built for war

[kind talon]

ya

until obedience

[tribal marlin]

+5% agility while you are above 80% health

[wise fiber]

Yeah thats the one the sims recomend.

[tribal marlin]

Don't forget it's that kind of mechanics we usually dislike

[kind talon]

oh

is that

draven?

[tribal marlin]

it take 10sec to ramp up and you loose all stack if you fall below 50%

[kind talon]

oh ya

the draven thingi

[tribal marlin]

yeah, in practice it is necessary lower value than simmed, if simmed at 99% uptime

[kind talon]

ya

is 5% AGI 5% dps gain?

[tribal marlin]

no

[obsidian anvil]

so obedience over doomblade?

[kind talon]

yes

[pure sinew]

Around 3.9%

Round that up to 4

[kind talon]

what % dps gain are our other conduits?

[tribal marlin]

Lashing was above average, but it was supposed to ~2.5% for normal conduits

I don't have exact numbers. Fuu's did the evaluation back then

maybe he updated

5% agility is supposed to be much more valuable than regular conduits. But again, it's not a 100% uptime buff.

[ruby tree]

@kind talon you get blue for only having it done on tyra or forti. Purple is combined score from both. Hover over it to see

[kind talon]

oh

i see

[ruby tree]

Yep, learned that today myself

[kind talon]

oh

interesting

woah

crazy

[ruby tree]

That's the new "have to play both forti and tyra" implementation

Also why rio scores got higher, to match what blizz's new system is

Mine went from 1,4k to 1,9k

[kind talon]

cool

i like that

[dull osprey]

Is there a way to sim food or do we always take agil food?

[gusty mirage]

yep

!oil

[prisma monolith]

Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ

[gusty mirage]

🙂

[thorny pond]

That

[gusty mirage]

but primary stat will almost always win

[hollow river]

yo oxi you already do your cov assault

[gusty mirage]

yessir

[thorny pond]

You usually get more primary and it’s worth more per point

[hollow river]

where do i turn it in?

[gusty mirage]

I'm doing the sweaty thing now

[dull osprey]

baller. I figured since my stat weights has agil as well over double the next closest secondary

[hollow river]

D:

[gusty mirage]

the assault? oh shit uh

korthia I think

to bolvar?

[thorny pond]

Sounds right

Most stuff occurs there

[gusty mirage]

Any darkmoon faire sweats?

[hollow river]

nope :l

bolvar ain't it

i think my shit is bugged

no ?'s on my map

but i've completed everything

[gusty mirage]

hm

try reloading

or relogging

[hollow river]

trying

the cov assault symbol was still on my map

but there was no one to talk to there

[thorny pond]

Disable some addons and reload

[hollow river]

nothing

ooo

something worked

idk what but i got the chest in my bags and ? at bolvar

[thorny pond]

Yay!

[hollow river]

thx guys

was pissing me off lol

[thorny pond]

You got a friend in me

[hollow river]

i need a sweaty partner

[kind talon]

wyd?

cov assault

?

[hollow river]

nah i was able to turn it in finally

i guess out of date add ons were messing it up

i need to do korthia dailies and farm rares etc now

[spiral pebble]

in M+ do we keep up garrote and rup on all AoE targets on top of CT?

[lean fossil]

like 5 bleeds will keep you good on energy

[gusty mirage]

you can, but your goal should be to get ruptures up on everything and maintaining crimson tempest & envenoming for snd

[hollow river]

what's with all these waiting groups for rares?

[spiral pebble]

@gusty mirage gotcha, makes sense; does it matter which targets you envenom? like do you prioritize low health targets?

[gusty mirage]

tbh unless it's like bolstering not really

you just do it to maintain snd

[spiral pebble]

gotcha thanks for the help!

[half marten]

quick question, do we have to wait till renown 48 (3 weeks) for obedience legendary?

[limber swallow]

yes

[kind talon]

is there an agi version of this

oh apparently there is

its just primary stat for all classes i guess

do we have sims of it?

[jagged yoke]

is it me or is assassination really bad in dungeons for aoe?

[arctic hare]

Well, are you putting rupture and garrote on as many enemies as you can?

[jagged yoke]

yeh i get 4 garrotes going and crimson then rupture

[arctic hare]

Hmm

Are you envenoming? Are you slice n dicing?

[jagged yoke]

yeh...i dont have zoldycks if thats a massive difference

[arctic hare]

I personally haven’t used it and I do just fine

[jagged yoke]

yeh i got doomblade

[limber swallow]

What difficulty are you running? On lower keys, your targets aren't going to live very long (assuming your group is decent) which makes dots feel less effective

[plain thistle]

its fine, just did a mists +20 and did 8.5k dps

our damage is fine, we just dont do explosive AoE burst

[jagged yoke]

yeh thats what i was thinking...im only at 10s atm cause i just got back and my mate is a dh so i think he may just blow them up before my shit works

[plain thistle]

but oh boy do I miss sbs for dungeons

[arctic hare]

Yeah, that’s prolly why then

[limber swallow]

I refuse to give up ... but damn, I wish the deathspike nerf would've been a little different

[jagged yoke]

also some dungeons feels like i just have 0 energy not sure why

[arctic hare]

Whats the ilvl?

[gusty mirage]

make sure you're spreading ruptures

to keep energy regen up

[jagged yoke]

ahhh ok

[shy dust]

thats for tank specs

[spice spire]

today was the last dance of sbs for me

[arctic hare]

lol

[spice spire]

it was like putting ol' yeller down

[gusty mirage]

it's not

[spice spire]

tomorrow we rejoin the vampires 😦

[gusty mirage]

wait until you're getting hit hard with something

and then you go to fleshcraft

and you're just sad

[white igloo]

is it safe to craft rank 4 doomblade on cloak now?

[spice spire]

@gusty mirage don't.

[spice spire]

it's safe 🙂 but if you're venthyr still recommended obedience!

but if you're anything else go doomblade

[white igloo]

wtf so now sin is going ven?

[spice spire]

also you can do it either way, because obedience isn't out until mythic week

yep check pins for all sims 🙂

[white igloo]

lol....

i went necro bc i thought that was the play

[spice spire]

well you have a free swapsie rn

[limber swallow]

is that in yet?

[white igloo]

i was originally NF

[limber swallow]

not gonna switch back to venthyr before week 4 anyway. I'll wait to see if they decide to nerf obedience before it launches 😉

[spice spire]

obedience available week 3 tho

same 2 renown plus story renown next two weeks, puts us right at 48 week 3

[limber swallow]

oh, we're getting 3 per week starting next week?

[brittle vigil]

Does anyone know if theres a rare that drops a dagger in korthia?

[white igloo]

Im going to stay necro to. knowing bliz they will tune stuff

[kind talon]

o that makes sense

[oak sky]

I like venthyr better anyway but gotta do the dam move

[arctic hare]

lol

[oak sky]

So if necro is better necro it will be

[arctic hare]

Just start off as venthyr

[oak sky]

I was already venthyr

Swapped last week

[arctic hare]

Ahh okay

I could never get the hang of sbs, I always spent it all in one thing just to have it do some extra dmg then never worry about it again

[kind talon]

yikes

[arctic hare]

Ofc, this was before I became better at togur

[oak sky]

Count Agreon coming to a raid near you

[arctic hare]

Rogue

And when I was playing outlaw still

[kind talon]

ya i mean

[arctic hare]

I hated outlaw after a while

[kind talon]

im glad u figured out what the ability did

lol

[arctic hare]

lol

Still haven’t actually

Not in practice that is

Switched to venthyr and pretty much never looked back

[kind talon]

it only refunds charges when a target dies

with the bleed

[arctic hare]

And after I switch to sin, it was incredibly simple for me cause I had played feral for an entire patch

I knew that much lol

[kind talon]

ya

is feral similar?

just keep up blleds

[arctic hare]

Oh god yes

[kind talon]

?

[arctic hare]

Rake is like garrote, rip is like rupture

The literal same concept, but that movement speed god it was niccceeee

[oak sky]

Feral seems ok

[arctic hare]

Ferocious bite was kinda like envenom

[kind talon]

oh but u go nf right

like convoke

[arctic hare]

Which is the entire reason why I switched off of feral and came to rogue

[kind talon]

or do u go

necro now

idk

[arctic hare]

I absolutely hated the fact that the vast majority of my dmg was due to convoke

[kind talon]

anyways thats cool

rogue is sweet

[arctic hare]

Idk what it is now, but last patch it was convoke

[oak sky]

Rogue is wicked nasty

[kind talon]

my bad i keep going offtopic

my brain is

sludge

[arctic hare]

Rogue, in comparison is less crappy and their abilties feel more meaningful

[kind talon]

gg

[arctic hare]

Such as

[kind talon]

ya i guess to me it just feels like

we have a lot of biuilding

buildup

compared to say warrior

esp on sin

[arctic hare]

Vendetta feeling like an actual powerful cooldown over berserk, now, berserk, gotta give it some kudos, it is good, but vendetta makes you actually feel like you’re assassinating your target

[oak sky]

Shiv makes this class fun

I said it

[arctic hare]

I’ve just barely touched shiv so far

[kind talon]

SLAM SHIV

[shy dust]

Idk about making the class fun

[oak sky]

ON CD

[shy dust]

Assa is pretty barebones

[oak sky]

Shiv is a nice damage amp

[arctic hare]

Try hanging all of your “good” damage on convoke

Absolute torture, and its dull

[oak sky]

Im sure they could make assassination more fun

But i like it

[arctic hare]

Oh undoubtedly

[thorn glen]

is switching from sin to sub the move rn? how big of a gap is there

[arctic hare]

No clue

[oak sky]

Pretty sure both are good

[arctic hare]

Yeah

[shy dust]

Pins

Answers

Your second question

[obtuse ruin]

With numbers

[arctic hare]

I just can’t wait to actively raid with rogue

[oak sky]

If you like sin better you wont have big issues

Mjb

[arctic hare]

Raiding an entire patch with feral wasn’t the most fun, especially when all boomies out dpsed you in everything

[pallid panther]

anyone know if this is a bug? just received the weapon token from final scenario so think its finished?

[oak sky]

Feral was really nice st right?

[pallid panther]

or last one just not out yet?

[sharp panther]

yeah it’s not out yet

[pallid panther]

pog

[arctic hare]

It had pretty good single target, but mostly through convoke

[pallid panther]

1-42 renown in 20 hours

[oak sky]

Nice

[arctic hare]

Like, my average with feral was about 3-4k

Then I switched to sin and had way more fun lol

[oak sky]

Yeahh

[arctic hare]

Well, outlaw, then sin, but outlaw is too much rng

[sharp panther]

it’s not really

[oak sky]

The weird thing with outlaw is your rotation is like the same in aoe and st

[arctic hare]

Well, try having like 5% haste with outlaw

[arctic hare]

Which is another reason why I didn’t enjoy it

[thorny pond]

flag is definitively not SBS in keys

[arctic hare]

Well ofc not

Not horrible tho

[thorny pond]

Nah, just getting back to a different playstyle is always kinda jagged

[arctic hare]

True

For some reason, I enjoy flag more than sbs

[thorny pond]

in keys?

or general

[arctic hare]

General

[thorny pond]

I would agree

[oak sky]

I really liked juicing bosses/prides with flag

[thorny pond]

feels like a CD

[arctic hare]

Mm hmm

Especially in m+

[thorny pond]

Sub Flag is another beast altogether

[sharp panther]

certainly more impactful on st, but idk in open world sbs def feels better

[arctic hare]

Yeah. i can see where you’re comin from

[oak sky]

Sub flag is gonna be fun thats something ill definitely mess around with

[arctic hare]

Sub flag???

Whats the difference?

[oak sky]

You get 30 stacks

[thorny pond]

It's free 30

[arctic hare]

Wha? Why?

[thorny pond]

you just build and spend much quicker

[oak sky]

You play deeper + shuriken storm

[arctic hare]

Oh okay

[oak sky]

Shuriken storm fills you like every time

[arctic hare]

Never learned sub, so

[thorny pond]

in M+ you hit nado + flag and it's all ogre

[oak sky]

Mix in those black powders

[arctic hare]

I’ve been slightly interested in sub, but was never really sure

[thorny pond]

24 stacks in 4 GCDs is stupid

[arctic hare]

Is it more faster paced than sin or something?

[thorny pond]

yea

[oak sky]

Yeah

[arctic hare]

Than outlaw?

[thorny pond]

Sin is one of the lowest APM specs in the game lol

[sharp panther]

feel like sin is the only one i have trouble getting to above 25 consistently, get there often with outlaw cos of mfd and opp procs and sub is easy to reach

[thorny pond]

Outlaw with Dreadblades and Flag kappa

[oak sky]

Iirc theres a good amount of energy regen in subs kit

[arctic hare]

Hmm, wait, APM? Never actually heard of that term before

[kind talon]

wait

how

wot

LOL

[thorny pond]

Tornado

• BP

is 4 GCDs

[arctic hare]

Any target caps?

[thorny pond]

well 5

APM = actions per minute

[arctic hare]

Oh onay

Okay

[oak sky]

I feel like as sin i usually hit around 26 stacks in lust

[shy dust]

It makes sense

[arctic hare]

Whats the fastest? Fury war?

[oak sky]

Outside lust its like 22-24

[shy dust]

Sin is a slower spec with apm

[thorny pond]

prot war probably

I have to check again

[shy dust]

Builds cp slower and has energy issues

[sharp panther]

iirc prot pally, veng dh and outlaw are highest apm?

yeahh

[thorny pond]

nah veng DH is fast but not enough off GCD to really make it fast fast

[oak sky]

Is it possible for it to be outlaw

[thorny pond]

anything with a 1s gcd is fast

[arctic hare]

So just curious, exactly what would happen if sin had the energy regen of sub?

[thorny pond]

We'd do like 1.6x DPS

[arctic hare]

Oh wow

[oak sky]

Wouldnt stack haste right

[arctic hare]

What about outlaw?

[spice spire]

Prot pally is definitely

[thorny pond]

haste is value because of ticks

and white hits for us

[oak sky]

Mm

[thorny pond]

energy and haste is so loose anymore

you'd need an absurd amount of haste to make energy regen noticable

[arctic hare]

I do wish we had slightly more energy regen in single target

[oak sky]

Yeah i think you feel energy regen from bleeds most

Tbh

[thorny pond]

Outlaw and Sub are around same

[arctic hare]

So 170% haste would do?

Or 100% add in adrenaline rush and shadow blades?

[thorny pond]

170% you'd get more energy from bleed ticks lol

[arctic hare]

Heh, torghast

[thorny pond]

each rogue spec has a different way to spend / recoup energy. Sin is very punishing if you slack

[spice spire]

8.3 at 63% felt GCD locked

[thorny pond]

outlul is most forgiving but RNG

[arctic hare]

I’ve noticed that

[thorny pond]

sub is about the windows

[arctic hare]

Guess I’d better get better at energy management, cause i sucked at it with feral

[mortal pike]

I made a new legendary on tuesday...was I not sposed to get a socket in it?

[arctic hare]

What piece?

[oak sky]

I think youre supposed to always get sockets if its a socket slot now

[arctic hare]

Yeah

[oak sky]

Or when you upgrade

Which is a nice change

[kind talon]

Wait outlaw is most forgiving with energy?

[mortal pike]

cloak

[thorny pond]

Yea

[arctic hare]

Which is more complicated, sub or sin?

[kind talon]

Makes sense I guess

[oak sky]

Sub

[thorny pond]

Eh

context

[oak sky]

Yeha

[thorny pond]

what scenario

[arctic hare]

Fine

[kind talon]

Sub is higher apm

[oak sky]

I was gonna qualify my statement

[arctic hare]

In something such as sire

[shy dust]

Sub

[thorny pond]

Sub isn't harder just more annoying cuz cleave

[shy dust]

Sub is harder than sin on St

[fathom swift]

cloaks dont get sockets

[thorny pond]

Sin is more focused because you have to manage bleeds

[shy dust]

That’s not to say that sub is a very hard spec

Assa on st is just a very easy spec

[thorny pond]

Both ST are easy

[mortal pike]

Oh okay my b

ty guys

[shy dust]

Sub is still harder

Both being easy doesn’t mean one can’t be harder

[white igloo]

I can’t believe I’m thinking about switching to venth

[arctic hare]

lol

Why?

[thorny pond]

Sin AoE/Cleave is more about proper management and gaming the system to know when to use what finisher and at what CP

[arctic hare]

Right

[thorny pond]

Sin ST is donkey brain

[white igloo]

I just got to renown cap with necro coming from NF

[arctic hare]

lol

[shy dust]

Sim cleave is just bleeding two-3 things

It’s not some big brain thing

[arctic hare]

Two to 3? Nuh uh

[thorny pond]

If you're gaming for energy regen, when to refresh what to garrote etc

[spice spire]

Sub is definitely harder than sin and it’s not relatively close

[shy dust]

Cleave is considered a small target count Frostfire

[oak sky]

You end up with a lot to manage sometimes in sin cleave

[spice spire]

That’s pretty easy to game with plater thoigh

[thorny pond]

Sub cleave is very flowcharty

[spice spire]

And like proper tools mitigate the difficulty and planning.

Sub cleave is a meme

[thorny pond]

So it's about what you perceptualize better I guess

[spice spire]

Their cleave doesn’t exist

[arctic hare]

Actually, about nameplates, i personally use threatplates

[spice spire]

Their aoe is stronk but the cleave is

[white igloo]

I use threatplates too

[thorny pond]

In / out of dance, when to SStrike vs SS

etc

Not like any spec in the game is big brain anymore anyways

[arctic hare]

True

Well

There might be some

Affliction perhaps?

[thorny pond]

Hardly lol

Arcane has like the rights to that title more than likely with proper CD/Mana management

[arctic hare]

I know virtually nothing about warlocks, much less affliction

[spice spire]

Affliction is dot, dump, repeat

[arctic hare]

I just take my cookies, help summon, and go lol

So something I would never want to play, got it

[thorny pond]

Afflic rotation is super easy: N-> Destruction -> activate

[arctic hare]

Hmm, i can definitely see arcane mage bein up there

Definitely not hunters

I’m mostly scared that I’ll end up joining the sub train lol

[thorny pond]

Don't be scared

[arctic hare]

Why lol

[thorny pond]

It's nice to be able to just not play sin 24/7

[arctic hare]

Sounds like utter torture

[thorny pond]

It's a good break and lets you stretch a bit, I feel like it flows better and is more fluid

whereas Sin I am riding a horse trying to buck me and I have to fight against urges and follow the rules

[arctic hare]

lol, great analogy

[hollow river]

Destro is literally so buggy it’s prolly difficult to play properly as well

[thorny pond]

That's me personally. I've been sin since LK. It's nice in raid when I can focus on things other than my rotation but I need to not do it all the time

[arctic hare]

Hmm

I may have to try it when I get back from the trip

[hollow river]

They literally have to cancel cast for something because the cast bar on a spell will complete and it won’t cast the ability

When using wilfreds leggo

[thorny pond]

I'm just vehemently against OL

[arctic hare]

Ofc, i will SUCK with it

[thorny pond]

I'll play another class if it's the only viable rogue spec

[arctic hare]

lol, don’t like outlaw eh?

I’m with ya there tbh

[hollow river]

Outlaw just isn’t very fun

[arctic hare]

Its too, straight forward?

[thorny pond]

no

[shy dust]

It’s a scuffed fury warrior

[arctic hare]

With things such as LITERALLY NOT CHANGING YOUR ROTATION ON AOE

[hollow river]

Nah it’s actually got a lot of nuance to it

[thorny pond]

I'll play my fury warrior, fury is so nice

[hollow river]

There’s a lot of different rotations

[thorny pond]

OL is just not fun for me. The speed and flow don't mesh

[hollow river]

For every leggo

[thorny pond]

GS/MFD is quite intriguing but hot fuck

[hollow river]

Sin rotations never change hardly

Hence why I like SBS a lot

[thorny pond]

sin has been the same since 86'

[hollow river]

But gotta jump on the venthyr train unfort

[thorny pond]

choo choo

[arctic hare]

lol

Choo chooo venth is the way to go mannnn

[spice spire]

Sin definitely changed between mists and today

[arctic hare]

Oh?

[spice spire]

I came back and was like wtf happened where did dispatch go?

Then I learn that it’s a finisher for some spec called outlaw

Tilt

[arctic hare]

I just now remembered, i played rogue back when I was a little kid, and ended up naming him blue lol, ofc, got stuck in silithis where the bugs give you siphilis

[spice spire]

Last I played we had an execute and blindside was baseline

[thorny pond]

I mean okay

but no

[arctic hare]

God those were the days, except for silithis, that sucked

[thorny pond]

mutilate and poisons boi

[arctic hare]

lol

[thorny pond]

I remember back in the day having a poison ticker tracker and having to envenom right after the tick

[arctic hare]

Huh?

Wha?

[spice spire]

It was definitely different back in the day

[thorny pond]

back in the day it was rough

power auras

TMW

etcx

[arctic hare]

Uhhhh

I was 6 when i played that rogue, i have no idea what tmw and power auras are

The heck is a tmw?

And are power auras like weak auras?

Oh well, time for me to get sleep, night peeps

[spice spire]

Night sir

[weak bane]

What trinkets are looking like top for sin? Guessing phial and iqd will still be up there but unsure if there's good data on the new ones yet

[kind talon]

???

sin execute?

what

[timid talon]

yeah im not sure what he's referring to lol

[limber swallow]

below 30% health or something, you used backstab (iirc) instead of mutilate, and blindside procc'd free backstabs. I think it was backstab...

pretty sure that was in pandaria

ah right, it was "dispatch" which replaced backstab and it was 35% health. You basically completely stopped using mutilate at 35% and lower.

[white orchid]

Blood mallet showing nightfae as number top in sims now?

Nvm lol

[fathom swift]

nope?

[white orchid]

I didn’t refresh on my phone and it was showing DH

Lol was like tf?

[oak sky]

I was gonna say, no way thats true lol

[white orchid]

Yea I was like bruh 😂😂

[clever perch]

guys u craft the M+ legendary

the zoldyck one

in which slot?

feet or pants?

for 9.1

[soft shale]

pants

[little ivy]

is obedience gonna replace zold

[red plaza]

if it stays the way it is yeah

[lone wren]

are we nerfed yet?

[drifting cloud]

[clever perch]

guys, is Crit/Mastery the way to go for M+?

crit/vers=mastery ?

the rank 1 assassination rogue doesnt actually build any haste

https://raider.io/characters/us/zuljin/Ryfie#season=season-sl-1-post

and pins actually saying haste > vers

[little ivy]

= is not >

[oak sky]

That looks like a sub rogue build btw

Im not sure how much haste he goes on sin normally

[clever perch]

oh it could be

[oak sky]

But that gear has a ring leggo and the sin m+ leggo is on legs

[kind talon]

@clever perch

lol

[clever perch]

yea true

[kind talon]

thats not sin

kekw

[clever perch]

i didnt notice omegalol

[kind talon]

kekL

[oak sky]

He probably has at least some haste even for m+

[kind talon]

yes of course

[oak sky]

Secondaries arent crazy important, just sim yourself in dungeon slice for m+

[kind talon]

u wouldnt stack verse

as sin

[cyan dew]

Do I use CT on a single target or only when there's 2 or more?

[oak sky]

Yes

[kind talon]

2 or more

[oak sky]

Its a dps gain in st

Oh

Dont run the talent in pure st

[kind talon]

i thought

o

[oak sky]

But if you have it for a boss in m+ or something cast the ability

[kind talon]

ya

u press CT

whenever

[balmy condor]

You talent into it for 2+ target
You use it in single target if you have it talented

[cyan dew]

Ty!

[oak sky]

Thanks for having better words

[balmy condor]

Me word good

[kind talon]

🐵

[oak sky]

Me and clown going pepega

[balmy condor]

So much wicked in chat

[oak sky]

My old pfp was pogey

But i figured it was time for a change

[kind talon]

wickd

[cyan dew]

iF flagellation is about to transition to the final 12secs and I have like, 2 or 3 cp. Do I use them to build more Flagellation CP or w/e and continue my normal rotation?

Flagellation stacks*

[zenith hatch]

Hmmmm either im still sleeping or sin aoe sim rly close to outlaw aoe? :o

[oak sky]

Dont worry you still have gouge and acrobatic strikes

Youre safe

[zenith hatch]

Well thats racist!

[oak sky]

I shouldve checked your roles

[zenith hatch]

I love my rogue as a whole, not spec!

Calling the police

[oak sky]

Yeah sin damage is looking good

[storm swift]

I am currently sub on my rogue and am kyrian, is it worth to swap to venthyr if I am planning on going assass for a bit or will assass be perfectly fine as kyrian?

[cyan dew]

Venthyr best on both specs, so...depends if you min/max or not

[oak sky]

Venthyr is probably better if you want to be sub/sin but if you like kyrian its ok ish on sin

[storm swift]

ok hah

thanks!

[cyan dew]

If flagellation is about to transition to the second part and I have like, 2 or 3 cp. Do I use them to build more Flagellation stacks or w/e and continue my normal rotation?

[oak sky]

I have no idea personally but probably just continue if i had to guess

[cyan dew]

Yeah, I was thining about this and couldn't find on pins or guides..

[oak sky]

Maybe wait for whispyr or if ceverion comes online

[cyan dew]

Yeah, our gods.

[oak sky]

They usually know stuff like that

[ancient peak]

this has prob been asked already, but is venthyr still bis pre obedience?

[median aurora]

i mean the question is probably (whispyr or someone more into the theory can correct if wrong), but 2-3% haste probably wont be worth the loss of damage from the 5-6 cp finisher

or rather "will the extra stat gain make up for the loss of dmg from the cp not spent"

[oak sky]

In st yes but with 2+ targets necro would be better mcgoogles

Yeah thats pretty much what i was thinking too judge, i just didnt want to misinform if i was wrong

[median aurora]

it's been said before but just dont try to overthink things

follow the basics and just slam

[cyan dew]

I know, but I like too much that 99% parse, so everything counts.

😆

[median aurora]

id harbor my bets and say as long as you're doing the fundamentals correct, your guild actually kills it at the right time and you dont get bombarded with mechanics you'll do just fine if parsing is ur jam

2% haste isnt gonna make a like 85 a 99

[cyan dew]

For sure.

[median aurora]

but playing the game like you care will provide you consistent results outside of just parsing so focus on that and have fun

[balmy condor]

we never finish on less than max-1 cp

it's just simply not energy efficient to do so

[cyan dew]

Ty Whispyr.

[undone eagle]

Guys how much soul cinders can u get this week?

It says 510 per week but i guess thats for when layer 12 is unlocked

[tulip nacelle]

I think 2x60 from torghast 2x50 from cov assaults and 50 from tormentors, so 270 now

but layer 12 will give 2x180

so it will be 510 then

[oak hinge]

Doomblade should be crit haste right?

[cyan dew]

Yes

[green obsidian]

what about the stats on the obedience cloak if i want to play sin but maybe sub too?

[crisp rain]

just leveled my rogue. which is better for 9.1 vent or necro?

doing raiding and weekly M+

[fallen arch]

Venthyr

For now

[crisp rain]

i see

[fallen arch]

If you plan to play assassination that is

[crisp rain]

yeah

[sand sigil]

2 cloaks

[fallen arch]

But check pins, loads of valuable info there

[crisp rain]

outlaw maybe for M+ if really pushing

[fallen arch]

Then Necro

If u plan to swap to outlaw for m+

[crisp rain]

only for pushing on weeks that are fortified i guess

is there a huge difference if its either Vent or Necro>

[fallen arch]

For outlaw ye, kinda

[crisp rain]

i see

well thanks man

appreciate it

need to think it over

lol

[fallen arch]

You can, like a lot of us probably

Go venthyr for prog

Switch to necro where we belong after

[green obsidian]

oh no..here we go again

[crisp rain]

i mean i guess if i go ST for Vent, i prolly will be left off for harder M+ pushing since the preference is always Outlaw

[fallen arch]

How high pushing are we talking about here?

Because I do my 20-21s as sin no problem every week

And no one asks me why I don’t play outlaw tbh

[crisp rain]

around 17-20

not really beyond 20

[fallen arch]

Then you are perfectly fine with sin

[timid talon]

Post buff yeah, but the community is on a 5 month delay so don't expect people to think mut is good in keys until about Thanksgiving.

[fallen arch]

And no one in finder asks you what spec you’ll play

[fallen arch]

Wdym

[crisp rain]

makes sense

[sick scarab]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[fallen arch]

And if that’s too hard, just run your own keys

[timid talon]

Perception matters more than performance. You'll get declined to keys as assassination because it was awful pre buffs

[crisp rain]

yeah

[fallen arch]

Yeah maybe if you eant to pug 25s

[timid talon]

Itll take time before pugs realize it's as good as outlaw

[fallen arch]

Which <0.05% of us do

[crisp rain]

people always think Outlaw > Assa in M+

[fallen arch]

Its not

Well, in the right hands outlaw will be better

But we can be right up there

[obtuse ruin]

are the sims in pins lower becasue of the poisons bug? or was that before

[sand sigil]

afaik the sims pinned are before the bug, so an extra 150 dps down from there. not 100% on that

[fallen arch]

Bottom line, it’s perfectly fine to pug 17-20s as assassination. If you’re declined it’s usually not because of the spec, it’s because of the class

Or because they don’t like your rating/r.io which is something you can work on

[strange python]

so should i go venthyr now that i swapped from outlaw to assass

planning on playing it in m+ too

also looking at sims it looks like the venthyr leggo is gonna be bis for both m+ and st should i just save my soul ash for that then

[fallen arch]

Yes

[strange python]

Is that a yes to all of it

[oak sky]

I think the sims in the pins rn have the poison bug

It says Change:profile optimizations and poison bug

[vestal wren]

the sims are with the bug iirc

but i am not sure

10.6k sounds a lot like its without it

giveme a sec, ill check

[strange python]

I guess in preparation for getting obedience should I put it on helm or back im assuming helm because it has more stats

[vestal wren]

https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ohWsM9tEpBdwKT6uFDPUbc/simc

hmm

[undone eagle]

Can I jump directly to rank 6 from 4 with my lego?

[vestal wren]

seems like it could be with the bug (unless the bug got hotfixed)

[oak sky]

Back so domination socket is open

[kind talon]

the pinned sims in this channel are with the bug afaik

[oak sky]

Thanks for checking fuu

[balmy condor]

it's with the bug

[strange python]

Thanks now I'm a little tilted bc I spent like 40k on an extra leggo lmao

[balmy condor]

you can see that

because the pin literally says

THIS IS WITH THE BUG

[oak sky]

Yeah i copypasted the sentence

[empty hinge]

Morning team

[undone eagle]

Whispyr i checked your pins, does this mean its worth going back to venthyr for both raiding & m+ ?

Im necro sin atm

[vestal wren]

venthyr is atm a very potent choice mainly due to obedience

[strange python]

That makes me a little unsure of saving my soul ash bc obedience might get hit with a nerf hammer, I don't have a sin leggo yet so I'm wondering if it'll be worth for me to build doomblade first instead of waiting for obedience

[undone eagle]

How about my renowns Fuu?

Will it be the same when i switch now or reset? Due to 80 renowns namn damn it

Right now im 42

[quasi pine]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[vestal wren]

42 is max

[gloomy rose]

searched it up a bit here, but what exactly is the bug?

[timid talon]

I hope 45 is max next week

[oak sky]

!pb

[prisma monolith]

Deadly Poison doesn't apply on some casts like Garrote, Rupture, and Shiv.
It's a minor bug but "notable" in that it does have some noticeable impact on DPS.
Should be around a 100-200 dps loss

[timid talon]

2 per week sucks ass

[oak sky]

I think its 42 this week 45 next then 48

[gloomy rose]

I see, thanks

[vestal wren]

you need 48 for obedience

so earliest you can craft it is mythic week

asssuming you get 3 next/mythic week

[timid talon]

if its not 2 per week

we have no evidence of it going up

which is dumb

[vestal wren]

i mean its possible that its >2 next week

because blizz gated a lot with the raid

but i think its fair to assume that its 3 per week what should guarantee the covenant legendary in mythic week

[timid talon]

I hope so

[oak sky]

I kinda remember someone saying its 3 per week after first week based on ptr

Dont quote me tho

[strange python]

Ah fuck it I'll just get enough soul ash to get all 3 leggos grinding torg 60 more times shouldn't be too bad

[vestal wren]

comparison of the top simming profiles for sub/sin:
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ppifivQfoz9yi4FyL8E6K8/simc

[kind talon]

Sadge

[ornate lake]

Hmmm. By the time we got obedience, we have balance patch. So things might shuffle around

[oak sky]

But in the pins isnt it 10763

I lied

Lol

10623

[vestal wren]

i know, sth probably changed

thats with current nightly

[oak sky]

Sin scammed by blizzard 😢

[strange python]

im prob staying necro until that balance patch, if obedience doesnt get nerfed imma swap for raid

[vestal wren]

i did re-run both st sims just in case

to get the highest st one

[arctic walrus]

@balmy condor trinket sims when

[jagged bobcat]

its crazy to think sub is getting stronger

i thought it was just strictly pvp

[vestal wren]

sims for reference:
sin:https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fADL1MeUEPWAMVDJpSGseq
sub: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/auqdmWP7DJqiFmBt7PTThZ/simc

[kind talon]

simming w/o flask food or potions?

jw if thats intended

[vestal wren]

huh

[kind talon]

maybe im stupid idk

[vestal wren]

the sim has those:

[kind talon]

o

ic

idk why its listed under

different category

[vestal wren]

could be related to spell data changes

[kind talon]

for sub

vs sin

[vestal wren]

its under "constant buffs" for both

[kind talon]

my shit bugged?

or?

idk

[vestal wren]

what sim do you look at

can you link the message

[kind talon]

anyways thats probably not it just some funky stuff with my settings that weirded me out

what message

[weak glen]

What is the top simming profile for sub, obedience?

[vestal wren]

if its your personal sim, you probably changed it under advance options

[kind talon]

no

its not my personal sim

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/auqdmWP7DJqiFmBt7PTThZ/simc

its this

draven built for war obedience

under buffs

[vestal wren]

oh i see

[kind talon]

well fed etc are dynamic for some reason

[vestal wren]

i just copy/pasted whispyrs imput

[kind talon]

but its only for that one

rly weird

[vestal wren]

so idk if there is a issue in that one

i can look at it

moment

[lone minnow]

so sub s looking stronger than sin

[vestal wren]

don't see anything wrong in the imput

[kind talon]

thats probably it

[vestal wren]

but this is indeed weird

[kind talon]

idk why its counting them as casting

at 0 seconds

[vestal wren]

thats because of pre combat actions

[kind talon]

oh

its happening

[vestal wren]

the sim basically applies food/etc before you start

[kind talon]

for the top one too

theotar triple potency

[vestal wren]

but its weird that some profiles don't have the buffs under constant

[kind talon]

also has it

[vestal wren]

i mean that could explain why its 10.3k

[pseudo hamlet]

Is there any BIS-list? I know that I should always sim myself etc. but was wondering if there's something I should focus? And sometimes the items that are simming higher aren't really better after you get to the some point.

[vestal wren]

if there is sth weird happening

[vestal wren]

the profiles used in the pins are decently well optimized.
I wouldn't call them bis but they are a good hint what to search for

[kind talon]

it seems like

for sub

all of the obedience sims

the highest ones

have well fed etc in dynamic and not constant

but akaari and other leggo sims are in constant section

idk why its very odd

[lone minnow]

in the sim you linked here, how does necro assa go up against that? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ppifivQfoz9yi4FyL8E6K8/simc

[vestal wren]

the weird thing is tho that https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ppifivQfoz9yi4FyL8E6K8/simc
has the buffs listed but still is rather low in output

so i am not sure what happend

[pseudo hamlet]

I cannot see the items 😦

[vestal wren]

niya burrs akaari does not have it but other akaari sims do have

[strange moss]

what leggo should i be using sin if im necro playing outlaw/sin?

[oak sky]

Zoldyck in m+ doomblade for raid

[pseudo hamlet]

okay I see them now

[strange moss]

@oak sky ty

[oak sky]

Np

[kind talon]

just doesnt make sense tht we lose 300dps overnight @vestal wren

like

wot?

[vestal wren]

it does seem more like related to changes to the strongest soulbind (maybe a nerf in the hotfix)?

e.g. if you look at sub the DD nadja also falls 2nd

so could be that they nerfed dd?

[pseudo hamlet]

Thank you very much! ❤️

[kind talon]

hmmm

[vestal wren]

sry for background noice

forgot to mute internal mic

[oak sky]

Could be the capstone trait

Wait

[kind talon]

wait

[oak sky]

Does the dungeon slice nadjia go down as well?

[kind talon]

is

dd

not working

if so then

that makes sense because

the difference between the pinned sim

and this

is literallky 3%

dps

[vestal wren]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[vestal wren]

letme quick check sth

[kind talon]

which is DD

[vestal wren]

yes, it rly looks like it

~3% for all 3 specs

[kind talon]

wdym

?

DD is 3% its in the tooltip

but the difference between the sim in the pins

and the sim we are looking at

is 3% damage

[vestal wren]

i was just stupid and looked up how much dps impact the trait has in my spreadsheet

^^

[oak sky]

Detective clown

[kind talon]

o

10.3k and 10.6k

the difference is ~3%

[obtuse robin]

but sub is 10.9 in sub sims and that didnt change

[vestal wren]

i just forgot how straight forward the trait is ^^

so my effort was not rly required

[kind talon]

lol

[kind talon]

thats triple potency

[vestal wren]

letme quick check it tho

[kind talon]

theotar

[vestal wren]

yes

[kind talon]

or triple potency nadjia

?

idk

[vestal wren]

its because i just used the "2nd best" more or less for both

and subs 2nd best is about equal to best

letme quick do a sim and then relay the information

[kind talon]

oh nvm

[obtuse robin]

sub is dd obi naj

[kind talon]

sub is 10.9 in pins ya

in this sim fuu linked its 10.7

so its about 200 dps los

loss*

mmm 172

[obtuse robin]

the sim fuu linked its 10.9

[vestal wren]

^

thats why:

[kind talon]

u r fried

[vestal wren]

yes nadja is 10.7

but i think black does mean the dps comparison

[obtuse robin]

yea the one linked up top with sub 10.9 ass 10.3

[vestal wren]

alright.. this is strange
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cWLSUJyfeXSw4cRQekrwrd

[obtuse robin]

is wat iom refrencing

[vestal wren]

some wichcraft is happening here

[kind talon]

o

im talking about

dd

its not working

in sims

correctly

for either assa or sub

[kind talon]

fucking sick pic bro

LOL

[vestal wren]

i just tested if it works

[mossy mulch]

we should w8 1 or 2 weeks for real sims

[vestal wren]

and it does in a simple test

[kind talon]

we are making the real sims

rn

if theres an issue with a conduit

then it has to be fixed

[vestal wren]

could be a issue with the copy/paste of whispyrs sim

[kind talon]

ya

is whispyr up?

[vestal wren]

he probably went to sleep

but letme try again

sim: https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/nNwMydQxx5rcQweYZ81QLZ/simc

^ i don't see any obviouse issues

[obtuse robin]

300 dps gone with no trace

[kind talon]

???????????????????

[oak sky]

I suspect this chat might explode tomorrow morning NA time

[kind talon]

where did the 300 dps go man

[vestal wren]

i would like to know too

will ask koji/mystler they might have clue

[sonic spire]

Is that the 300 between nadjia obi 10.7 vs 10.9

[kind talon]

no

us

sin

10.3 to 10.6

[vestal wren]

wait

letme check sth

so my hint is this: https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/commit/b71603de02cc0f3ea91b5b33fd139caa2ef217b9

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[kind talon]

wot

cant read that im dumb

[oak sky]

Is that a prob with the capstone trait?

[vestal wren]

fatal flaw is also a ~3% dps gain

an the simc commit changes fatal flaw

alright time to sim this

[oak sky]

The investigation continues

[teal bloom]

[obtuse ruin]

do people actually play in fear of obedience getting nerfed/tuned soon?

[faint harness]

if it happens it happens

thats just life

[limber lion]

Some do, rightfully so.

[obtuse ruin]

lot of rogues ive asked said to hold out another week or so before changing covs

[limber lion]

Might happen, might not.