assassination

[balmy condor]

I haven't seen anything

APL wise

[fleet anchor]

I mean

[hollow river]

So you were trying to implement the items into simc

[fleet anchor]

You also gotta sim without the gem bonuses for M+ anyway. Get ready for double the stack charts

[hollow river]

On raidbots

[fleet anchor]

😄

[gusty mirage]

wait why, I thought they said they work in all content now

[balmy condor]

3 dimensional charts

[hollow river]

Set bonus doesn’t

[gusty mirage]

wow

this system's getting even worse the more I read about it

alright boys see ya in 9.2

[civic trellis]

9.3 here

[hollow river]

Lol

[spice spire]

Imagine thinking there’s a 9.3

[civic trellis]

XD

[gusty mirage]

there will be, but it'll be in 2023 at this rate

[civic trellis]

AND Q4

[spice spire]

Nah 9.2 > next expansion

[gloomy knoll]

hmmm

[civic trellis]

NAH

[gloomy knoll]

gonna be so many charts lol

[fleet anchor]

Damaging a target increases your damage done to that target by 0.33% for 4 sec, stacking up to 3 times.
Such gameplay much WoW. Many build opportunities.

[civic trellis]

srry caps

[gloomy knoll]

do we even know where we get the gems from

[spice spire]

1%

[hollow river]

Raid I think

[fleet anchor]

May as well be a Vers gem

[gloomy knoll]

.99%

[fleet anchor]

lol

[gloomy knoll]

honestly true xD

[fleet anchor]

Your damage is increased by 2% when you have 50% or more health than your target.

Is also an awful tooltip that nobody quite understands but alas

[gloomy knoll]

oh i guess they drop from raid bosses

[hollow river]

How do you even sim that rofl

[gloomy knoll]

name a more dynamic duo

than blizzard and shit tooltips

[spice spire]

JFC LMAO

[gloomy knoll]

[gusty mirage]

that's impressively bad even by blizzard tooltip standards

[hollow river]

It’s execute dps

[gusty mirage]

I'm going to read that as an extra 2% execute damage and I won't even be upset about it when it turns out to be something different

[fleet anchor]

Like does that mean by percentage? And it kicks in at 66%?
Or by raw% and it kicks in at 50%?

Who knows!

[gloomy knoll]

this one seems pog

[hollow river]

This whole patch is centered around execution. The execution of sylvanas

[gusty mirage]

the execution of my will to play the game

[gloomy knoll]

220 primary stat

[fleet anchor]

I'm guessing it's 66% and it's relative personally because that maths out pretty close to the other one

[gusty mirage]

everything's getting executed

[hollow river]

Loooool

[civic trellis]

next bis build: stack stamina for that buff

[fleet anchor]

But who knows

We'll see I guess

[civic trellis]

you know, bosses have millions of hp

[hollow river]

It’s % wise

[balmy condor]

we should ask infexious

[gusty mirage]

I bet he knows

[hollow river]

Your chest armor is gonna be so pog in raid now

[gloomy knoll]

honestly

[fleet anchor]

Anything that is % based HP we'll probably have a Sim option for but honestly players are basically at full health MOST of the time

[gloomy knoll]

these gems are so stupid lol

[fleet anchor]

Like my Hateful chain procs heals maybe like 4-5 times per raid haha

[gloomy knoll]

whoever came up with them needs to stop

[hollow river]

I think you say fck the gems

[balmy condor]

it's new and fun and exciting

[fleet anchor]

They are just meant to look way more complex than they actually are

[gloomy knoll]

eh

[hollow river]

Just sim the gear and procs

[gloomy knoll]

i'd much rather just have tier sets

like

[gusty mirage]

I'm personally more excited for more torghast

[gloomy knoll]

this seems like shitty tier sets with way more steps

[fleet anchor]

Like this set bonus

[gloomy knoll]

just gimme a damn tier set lol

[fleet anchor]

Winds of Winter - While inside the Maw or Torghast, each time you deal a critical strike, the Winds accumulate 6% of that effect, up to a cap of 180 per critical strike. Every 20 sec, the Winds unleash, dealing Frost damage equal to the total accumulation and and surrounding you in the Winds for 20 sec, absorbing 100% of damage dealt by the Winds.

[gusty mirage]

it's what I was hoping I'd get out of the second tier

[fleet anchor]

It's an awful lot of words to say "your crits do slightly more damage"

[gloomy knoll]

i swear to god

WHO WRITES THEIR TOOLTIPS

[gusty mirage]

you're missing the part of the "with an absorb shield too for shiggles"

[gloomy knoll]

like why is it so hard for blizzard to write a tooltip

it's actually mind boggling

[fleet anchor]

I'm also looking forward to like

[hollow river]

They’re trying to put a stop to simming

[gusty mirage]

I'll send Ion a tweet and ask him if I can write the tooltips

[fleet anchor]

You get all the Frost gems so you can get the Frost set bonus

[gusty mirage]

dw I got you guys

[fleet anchor]

And then in a hotfix they are like

[gusty mirage]

we're both lawyers, we have that bond

[fleet anchor]

"Frost set bonus nerfed, Unholy set bonus buffed"

And you have to get all new gems

[gloomy knoll]

oh god pleaseno

[hollow river]

Nsbsbabaknab

[gusty mirage]

it's going to happen

[gloomy knoll]

i don't even want the funky gems

to begin with lmao

[gusty mirage]

you good man?

[balmy condor]

his name is backstab

[hollow river]

Idk

[balmy condor]

he's not good

people avoid him

[hollow river]

Wow

[balmy condor]

that's kinda the gameplay

[gloomy knoll]

toxic

[fleet anchor]

Which of course

You can't just overwrite a gem

[hollow river]

Look my WA for when I eat a feast

[fleet anchor]

That would undermine the MeaNinGfFuL ChOIcE

[gloomy knoll]

you have to buy a gem extractor

[hollow river]

Says eating leave me alone

[fleet anchor]

So when they hotfix the set bonus

[gloomy knoll]

whenever i hear meaningful choice now

[fleet anchor]

You gotta drop like 2500 Stygia to replace your gems

[gloomy knoll]

i just get mad

like they unironically gave me a trigger word

[gusty mirage]

well that's just another meaningful choice they gave you

if you think about it

[gloomy knoll]

looool

[fleet anchor]

But yeah to be frank

It's a lot of hand-waving smoke and mirrors for a system that is basically "you do slightly more damage"

They're basically less interesting Azerite minor traits

[gusty mirage]

and people wanted more interesting things

[gloomy knoll]

yea they real dumb

i'm not interested in them at all tbh

[gusty mirage]

some even expected them

but alas, blizz gonna blizz

[gloomy knoll]

i'd much rather have things liek

[balmy condor]

I think the worst thing is

this patch is already shit

[gloomy knoll]

class balance better specs better raid

etc

[gusty mirage]

Good thing we waited almost a year for it

[gloomy knoll]

instead of dogshit benthic sockets

[civic trellis]

why?

[gloomy knoll]

like they got rid of tier sets and suddenly raid gear isn't bis for pve i have an idea

give me tier sets back

[fleet anchor]

Hard for me to get too pumped for this patch when they totally dropped the ball on the Rogue raid utility statement

[misty holly]

I just saw, Sin is only "B tier" in 9.1 😭

[gloomy knoll]

rogue will always be B tier

until smoke bomb

[balmy condor]

the systems they're adding are all super janky convoluted messes

[gloomy knoll]

give us the utility

[balmy condor]

and we don't even know how bad it's gonna be

[limpid plinth]

Basic wow player patch not even live yet and people say its shit

[misty holly]

Outlaw is S

[fleet anchor]

Rogue utility is joining Crimson Vial pickpocketing on the "hope they forget about it" shelf

[gloomy knoll]

ok whoever made that chart

is obviously smoking crack

because outlaw in raid is a meme

[balmy condor]

yes, I'm a basic wow player

who is watching systems

[fleet anchor]

Outlaw in raid is fine

[balmy condor]

and the trainwreck is unfolding

[gloomy knoll]

S tier tho?

[misty holly]

it's Icy Veins!

[gloomy knoll]

like what

[hollow river]

[balmy condor]

that's me

[fleet anchor]

No I assume they are S tier because of M+

[balmy condor]

mr. basic

[gloomy knoll]

i mean sure in M+ they s tier i'll give them that no problem

[fleet anchor]

And before the nerf to the legendary

[gloomy knoll]

but raid i'd give them a high b at best

[fleet anchor]

Since Rogues can't have OP things

[gloomy knoll]

god i'm so mad about deathspike nerf

i was looking forward to it so much

[balmy condor]

it's literally a week before the patch and we don't know how half the systems work

and the ones we have an idea about

seem kinda questionably jank

[gloomy knoll]

was such a fun leggo

[balmy condor]

get a gem, which is unique, but maybe not with other ranks, that you need to remove using a thing that you buy

and the gem itself has some weird conditionals and stuff

[misty holly]

They should change the legendary to just deathspike yourself on cast, so it's clear to everyone how good it is.

[balmy condor]

buff a gem, now you need to farm x of the things you need to buy to replace the x gems you already slotted

but how do you get the gems

are they 100%?

who knows

might be chasing gems all patch

cause you had drops in the first clear

and then got nothing

[hollow river]

):

[civic trellis]

i liked 9.0 so far

maybe because its my first expansion playing wow

[balmy condor]

and that whole thing is on top of the legendaries that you gotta recraft now, which I don't think is a problem really but it is still really annoying

[hollow river]

Same. Hasn’t been too terrible but meh

[balmy condor]

there's just a seemingly large lack of foresight on this stuff

[limpid plinth]

But for blizzard point of view how nice it is to make new content for players that allways just trash talk everything 😅

[civic trellis]

but i agree that stacking 1% dmg is just...

stupid XD

[hollow river]

They know what we want

[civic trellis]

you get distracted by something at your window..

pum, 1% dmg

XD

[gusty mirage]

the money they make is a pretty good point of view to stop putting out mediocre content

[fleet anchor]

There are a lot of things Blizzard could do for 9.1 that would make me excited but most of the things they have put out there aren't in that list 😛

[gloomy knoll]

i 100% agree

[civic trellis]

i'd have loved double lego

😦

[hollow river]

They know we want less systems

[gloomy knoll]

the entire gem system seems shoddy at best

[hollow river]

Less random grind bullshit

[trim dirge]

It's not trash talk, it's valid criticism about what they've been doing for 3 expansions

[fleet anchor]

Like at the end of the day there are two things I have a hard time getting over for 9.1

[gloomy knoll]

and honestly even if it works out fine and isn't too much of a hastle i still honestly don't care about the gems

they aren't cool

[gusty mirage]

the point isn't issues with systems, the point is ill thought out systems and trying to reinvent the systems instead of just reusing the dozen we've had over the years

[balmy condor]

there isn't really anything "new" persay. A new zone, a new raid, a dungeon, and a really awkward borrowed power system that will be gone next patch

that's the last 3 years

[fleet anchor]

1. The Night Fae legendary being a literal joke
2. Them totally bailing on the raid utility thing that they specifically talked about

[limpid plinth]

When we get less systems and less grind we are like well there is no content dogshit game

[civic trellis]

tbh what i hate the most is the same mob with same textures but bigger/smaller or different color

i swear i've seen like 1000 marrowars XD

[hollow river]

Create more dungeons?

[balmy condor]

oh I'm not saying that we shouldn't get anything, I'm saying we should get something actually new, or different

[hollow river]

Or other shit

[balmy condor]

they implement things, and then don't build on them

[gusty mirage]

they just abandon them

and start a new system

lol

[gloomy knoll]

bring back artifact weapons

[civic trellis]

best thing is when they buff a legendary which is unbuffable

[fleet anchor]

But this patch baffles me

[civic trellis]

"hey look we did our job, here is your buff"

XD

and it went from 0.1 to 0.2

[gloomy knoll]

every rogue was like

[gusty mirage]

just.... fix the systems we have or expand on them. Don't implement a new one just for the sake of implementing a new one

[fleet anchor]

It's taken them the longest amount of time ever to make one of the least impressive patches

It's very confusing

This patch gets rushed out in 1-2 months? Ok, maybe I don't like it but I get it

[civic trellis]

they are focussing on classic imo

[gloomy knoll]

hey we want jack of all trades as a legendary, blizzard was like i see you but what if we made jack of all trades unusable dogshit wrapped in a sulfuric booger hows that you excited huh huh?

[trim dirge]

They're different teams

[fleet anchor]

7 months? And still feels unfinished? Honestly that just confuses me

[balmy condor]

like we had artifact weapons, then we had azerite, then it got removed
we had AP, then we had AP, then we had anima for cosmetics, and then it's probably gonna be gone again
we had mission table in wod, story mission table in legion, then pretty worthless mission table in bfa, then now the mission table is an augment rune farm

everything they add

they just iterate into a watered version

and then remove

[gloomy knoll]

even tier sets

[balmy condor]

the one thing we've gotten out of the last 3 expansions

[gloomy knoll]

azerite was like wonky shitty tier sets

[balmy condor]

is m+

[gloomy knoll]

now we get shitty gems

[balmy condor]

that's the only meaningful thing

we have

[civic trellis]

thats the hearth thing right

you get in silithys

silithus

[gusty mirage]

at least they tweaked them and tried to fix them instead of being like "Here's sockets you can throw in them to try to make them feel less shitty"

[civic trellis]

tbh the only good looking thing is the 2 handed weapon 😦

which devours other weapons to buff herself

[gusty mirage]

just idk what the point of making these elaborate systems and then just abandoning them and implementing the diet coke version of them later

[gloomy knoll]

yea is honestly a gigantic waste of dev time

[limpid plinth]

I dunno i just think too complicated prolly because if i do work and customers allways just say my product are shit do i even bother to put effort to it? Even because those customers are so dogshit they buy and use it anyway 😄

[gloomy knoll]

and just a burden on the player base

i don't think wow is shit

wow is a great game it's very fun

but a lot of the things they do are dumb or shit

[fleet anchor]

The gem slot recrafting thing is a prime example of like "wait, you guys didn't think about that?"

[gloomy knoll]

i.e. domination sockets

[balmy condor]

I mean what else do we have from wod-legion-bfa to show for in shadowlands? world quests/emissary system with callings, m+.... I guess sanctums are garrisons?

[fleet anchor]

Legendaries surely should take priority as far as SL systems go right?

I don't understand

[gusty mirage]

seemed that way

but I wonder if its because of the outlash from legion rng that they overcorrected into making most of them boring af

[gloomy knoll]

i mean the legendary system was fine

until they made us recraft them all

[balmy condor]

you could say the soulbinds are recycled artifact weapons I guess, although they're very watered down and not spec specific anymore

[gloomy knoll]

for no reason

[balmy condor]

but there's really nothing left

they're rehashing legion for the 3rd expansion

and doing it worse every time

[woeful juniper]

well you cant just keep a system that gives power around forever unless you plan on not expanding on it much if at all. At some point it would become to convoluded and stale. Thats the main reason blizzard keeps systems around but waters them down and changes them each addon.

[gloomy knoll]

i mean you can make a sytem

and improve on it

instead of making a system

fixing the bugs and the faults

and then when it finally gets good

scrapping it completely

just makes no sense lol

[woeful juniper]

yes but there is no way a something like the artifact wepons couldve stayed after legion

[gusty mirage]

I mean there's no easy way to do it, but there has to be a better way than the current way they do it

[fleet anchor]

Oh I remembered the 3rd thing I'm annoyed about for 9.1

[gloomy knoll]

i mean you can redo the artifact weapons

new traits

new paths

[fleet anchor]

Moving away from weapon tokens again

[gloomy knoll]

take out some of the bad shit

[fleet anchor]

And screwing dagger specs

[balmy condor]

sure, you can iterate the system, but don't water it down, make it worse, and call it an improvement. They wanted to replace tier sets, legendaries, and artifact weapons, WITH AZERITE

[trim dirge]

that's the problem, they make these systems to intentionally dispose at the end

[balmy condor]

that's fucking ridiculous

[woeful juniper]

i mean yea bfa was a mistake xD

[fleet anchor]

Like lol ok it's great that the new dagger is probably BiS

Good luck actually getting it

[gloomy knoll]

literally only reason i have a 233 dagger is because monk tank traded it to me @fleet anchor

i have 9 fucking sire kills

NINE

[gusty mirage]

I didn't see any weapon token drops

[gloomy knoll]

and i still only have that one dagger

[balmy condor]

In my opinion, I'm actually not sure BFA is worse than shadowlands currently

[gusty mirage]

now I can not see the dagger drop

[fleet anchor]

It's like getting a Carapace dagger only with half or fewer as many chances because of no bonus rolls 🤣

[balmy condor]

I am very disappointed with shadowlands so far

[limpid plinth]

Just unsub then

[fleet anchor]

And considering it took me like

All freakin tier to get Carapace daggers

[gusty mirage]

I think essences was a good system, the only issue with it the vendor for alts was wayyyyy too late

[fleet anchor]

After coining every week

I'm not really hopeful

[woeful juniper]

I think shadowlands is fine tbh, the main problem is the long patch. It really made the weakpoints apparent.

[gloomy knoll]

i'm basically as unsubbed as you can get without unsubbing

all i do is raid log so we can trial people for next tier

[balmy condor]

why would I unsub to a game I enjoy playing?

[gloomy knoll]

in the hopes it won't be as bad

also as i said ^

wow is a fun game

[civic trellis]

Tbh the next raid is looking pretty good

[gloomy knoll]

it just has a lot of dumb shit in it

[civic trellis]

Really fun

and the megadungeon is really really cool

have you guys tested it?

[wicked briar]

You can be disappointed with the current state of the game and demand better without unsubbing

[limpid plinth]

Reading your comments does not make me feel you enjoy it really much tbh 😅

[gusty mirage]

yeah I saw the mega dungeon, it looks cool

[civic trellis]

it could be a new city

[strange python]

This is no joke without substantial help or without guaranteed farm like PvP. I NEVER got a carapace dagger as the only rogue in group. Not even a heroic one. And I only just last week finally got a 2nd 226 dagger. That's with doing 2 m+ vault options a week plus raid.

[gusty mirage]

we said the same thing about Suramar

[civic trellis]

literally is the most cool-looking think i ve seen so far

i leveled in legion and the mega-dung is more attractive than suramar imo

[hollow river]

Carapace?

[patent monolith]

Might have to nerf/buff some anima powers for M+ as well

[balmy condor]

you do realize that I can both enjoy a game, be disappointed, and demand for a change, all at the same time right? Idk why you insist on jumping down my throat for having opinions

[civic trellis]

also all the secrets

[gusty mirage]

the new seasonal affix for m+ seems kinda dogshit tbh

[gloomy knoll]

people tend to get annoyed about things they care about, i like wow i enjoy playing it that's why i want it to be a better game

[gusty mirage]

but I guess I'll see if it actually is poop

[gloomy knoll]

it was pretty fun but they got rid of plume so now it's

alright i guess

but pride was god awful

and hard cucked routing options

so anything without pride is instantly a major improvement

[gusty mirage]

Pride was a super cool concept until the most efficient option was to invis skip it lol

[hollow river]

This. Lmfaooo

[gloomy knoll]

pride just made routing stale

[hollow river]

And this.

[limpid plinth]

Sorry if so maby its just because people have played this game decades so we have seen it all. Dont wanna be rude just want to understand ❤️

[gloomy knoll]

when you have to section a dungeon up into 20% chunks and if that 20% procs in the middle of something you just wipe

[hollow river]

I like pride but man you had to tip toe on %

[gloomy knoll]

routing gets very limited

[gusty mirage]

I mean I see why they went that route, reaping was beloved

[gloomy knoll]

yea because it wasn't really an issue

you just did the key normally and got to do big aoe sometime

you didn't have to hard conform your route and play around it at the risk of bricking an entire key and it didn't scale so badly that you had to skip it to time higher keys lol

[gusty mirage]

idk I hope I'm wrong about 9.1

but so far SL has kinda been what I thought it was

[gloomy knoll]

SL is diet legion

it's alright

[gusty mirage]

a kinda okay expansion that's best quality is that it isn't bfa

[gloomy knoll]

not that great

[woeful juniper]

i mean legion wasnt all that great early on tbh.

[gloomy knoll]

bfa early on was so bad i quit the game

didn't come back till nyalotha

fuck uldir

and infested

[gusty mirage]

damn missed out on bod & EP

2 great raid tiers

[gloomy knoll]

yea i wish i got to play reaping

i'm fine with missing EP

benthic and beguiling

are just

🤢

[woeful juniper]

the way legendarys worked in early legion was god awful xD

so maybe SL has a chance

[gloomy knoll]

yea but it was also bugged

i'm hopeful for shadowlands but

seeing 9.1 i'm kinda moving my hopes to 9.15 or 9.2

cuz 9.1 seems

alright i guess

not super enthused about anything tho

lots of dumb decisions made

[strange python]

What do you mean? You didn't like people leveling and deleting a dh to level a new one because their first fast leggo wasn't the ring?

Why not?

[civic trellis]

Raid and mega-dungeon seems fun

[gloomy knoll]

yea at least CN was a decent raid

[civic trellis]

Also new creative ways in m+ i guess

[gloomy knoll]

prideful was

abhorred though

[civic trellis]

Yeah

the first days is like oh wow challenguing shit

but you got tired of it in 2-3 weeks

[gusty mirage]

they could've easily fixed prideful, make it max out the damage at key level 15 like bursting damage

[woeful juniper]

i think 9.1 looks ok. Obviously the lego stuff isnt great, but I do think thorghast is gonna be more fun now. granted i will probably not enjoy it anyways.

[gloomy knoll]

torghast is shit content

[patent monolith]

Blizz literally could have done alot of things but they just didnt..sadly for us

[civic trellis]

Well

[gloomy knoll]

it was cool at first but

[woeful juniper]

yea its ass xD

[gloomy knoll]

it got old in like 2 runs

[strange python]

Why are people mad about rogue leggos in 9.1? Is it just having to recraft doomb?

[gloomy knoll]

honestly just shit content

[civic trellis]

A system to recycle some soul ash would been pretty

[gusty mirage]

Torghast is fine, it's the fact that it just feels like a chore that sucks

[civic trellis]

from outdated legos

[gloomy knoll]

we have to recraft literally every leggo except for zdicks

[hollow river]

This has gone from #assassination to #blizzardsucks

[gloomy knoll]

LOL

true

[hollow river]

(:

[gloomy knoll]

iuno oxi

like binding of isaac

is my shit

i fucking adore that game

torghast is not roguelike

it's just boring

[gusty mirage]

I was super excited about roguelike solo content

[gloomy knoll]

same

[gusty mirage]

and I was given... this

[civic trellis]

Well idk if you are necro

[gloomy knoll]

i am currently

[woeful juniper]

well theyre trying to make it more roguelike

[gloomy knoll]

i'll be venth next week

[civic trellis]

but with a necro power you can blast the entire room

XD

[gloomy knoll]

i don't think blizzard understands

what roguelike means

[civic trellis]

the entire layer i mean

[hollow river]

What is a roguelike

[gloomy knoll]

go look up binding of isaac

perfect example

actually amazing game

[woeful juniper]

no they dont really. I think the skill tree is a step in the right direction tho

[gloomy knoll]

super fun

[balmy condor]

I've played wod through to now, but I dabbled in cata-mop as well, so I'm kinda new I guess. I just see patch come and go, and systems that are cool in theory, but then it gets scrapped, and then it gets added back but less interesting. I loved artifact weapons, and having a new ability for my spec, then it was 1 patch of an essence as a new ability, then now it's an ability from a covenant that's gonna be gone next expansion again. Just doesn't seem like there's an attempt at a long lasting change ever, just a means to get from this raid, this patch, this expansion, to the next. When they prepatch to the next expansion and get rid of all the shadowlands stuff, there's a good chance our characters will be functionally equal to their legion prepatch versions, and that's concerning. An MMO That goes stale is an MMO that people don't play, and the current cycle of changes is very reliant on using the same 3-4 things slightly differently for the expac release, then following with patch systems that get scrapped the next patch, and then scrapping it all at the end of the expac. It's just frustrating that nothing changes over the years, when they had such a good opportunity to keep the artifact abilities, bake in some azerite powers or legendaries, keep tier sets, make mage tower stuff, add some world content outside of world quests, but there just doesn't seem to be much. Azerite shard farming on broken shore was kinda cool for a little bit at least, but there's really nothing like that in bfa, nor shadowlands. There's so many areas they could do something with, and it's just getting tired for me personally

[gloomy knoll]

woah

[hollow river]

Fresh page baby

Essay in this bit

[gloomy knoll]

whispyr hit em with the MLA format

[hollow river]

What about PoE and Diablo

What are those

[gloomy knoll]

arpg's

[hollow river]

Ahh

True

[gusty mirage]

a dungeon crawler where you can power up your character with choices & such throughout and rng has a lot to do with it

[odd hazel]

i've been playing more diablo at this point

[balmy condor]

poe also bakes basically every league into the base game btw :P

[hollow river]

?

[woeful juniper]

poe waters every league down tho

[hollow river]

Idk what this means

[balmy condor]

sure but you still interact with the stuff

[hollow river]

Every patch?

[gloomy knoll]

basically this yea, and there's generally like rng routes and different endings based on the choices throughout etc

[woeful juniper]

yea true

[balmy condor]

poe has 4 leagues, or 4 patches, and each patch has it's own system, once the patch is done, it goes into the base game as a watered version

[hollow river]

I haven’t played any games in like 10 years guys

[civic trellis]

sounds like a korean game

😄

[hollow river]

Ahh ok I get it

[woeful juniper]

i think tge main problem is balancing keeping cool stuff and abilitys and not having way to much stuff an abilitys. If we had everything that have power since wod we wluld need 3 keyboards by now xD

[hollow river]

I’m down for that

I’ll go buy two more keyboards

Choice is what counts

[limpid plinth]

Ahh i see now what you mean and there you are 100% right tbh my mindset has been more casual just hyped over new content kind of just ignoring all these 😅

[woeful juniper]

you cant just keep adding and not take things away

[hollow river]

Have a fucking poll on what abilities stay and go?

!!!

[civic trellis]

backstab byebye wellcome hemorrhage

[gloomy knoll]

i mean it's not just adding and taking things away it's completely scrapping systems that took extensive work to finally make them acceptable

[patent monolith]

How about a poll on who stays and goes at blizz dev team that would shake things up

[gloomy knoll]

and then players FINALLY get a chance to enjoy them in a decent state

[gusty mirage]

Of course, that's how we got the bloat we had prior. But there's a way to implement things via talent choices

[gloomy knoll]

and as they just start to get attached

blizzard throws it in the trash

[balmy condor]

yeah I'm very much not the casual. Don't care for mounts or pets or cosmetics or new zones or any of that. Probably why I spend half my time just running sims honestly

[gusty mirage]

a lot of specs have useless talents where you pick a talent because it's the least shitty option

[balmy condor]

but it's starting to feel like every patch is just regurgitating the last expansion

[gloomy knoll]

outlaw literally has talents that are dps losses

or at least it did in nyalotha

half our talents are just unusable

[limpid plinth]

Well i only play to raid and m+ maby i should care more about the systems too 😅

[balmy condor]

that's what I do :P raid and m+ and that's it

[hollow river]

Have you socketed gear with venari

[gusty mirage]

yes

[viral locust]

It's prolly a good idea to just craft Doomblade on a cloak and call it a day right? Not worry about Dashing?

[balmy condor]

dashing is probably fine

they're very close

[gloomy knoll]

honestly suprising

[hollow river]

Elitist gamer warning!

[viral locust]

Is Doomblade harder to play at all?

[gloomy knoll]

that they haven't made good solo content

since mage tower

[balmy condor]

equal

[civic trellis]

btw remember to socket all your legos rings/necks before 9.1

[gusty mirage]

nah I'm garbage

[gloomy knoll]

like literally every player

[civic trellis]

save a socket 😄

[gloomy knoll]

will tell you how fucking bussin mage tower was

and we got nothin

[balmy condor]

but you're stronger whispyr

[hollow river]

I’m not socketing fuck all

[gusty mirage]

I loved mage tower, that + the class halls made me want to level alts

I had like 7 alts at max level in legion

[gloomy knoll]

yea i loved the class halls

also

[balmy condor]

oh also what happened to crafting questlines and ranks and shit

[gloomy knoll]

was super pog

[gusty mirage]

but.... but you're stronger oxi

[balmy condor]

that kinda got dumpstered too

[gloomy knoll]

lol true

[balmy condor]

and class based questlines

that got fucked

[gusty mirage]

remember our crimson vial buffs from pickpocket?

I was actually looking forward to those lol

[balmy condor]

no

I don't

[gloomy knoll]

nah we just got a nerf

[woeful juniper]

yea legendary questline aswel

[balmy condor]

[gloomy knoll]

to crimson vial

[hollow river]

[civic trellis]

No please

[gloomy knoll]

and nothing in return

[civic trellis]

XD

[gloomy knoll]

legion had class based questlines

[gusty mirage]

then it launched and I'm like wtf and people were like "Yeah they announced it at blizzcon and never did anything with it"

[gloomy knoll]

and it was giga pog

[civic trellis]

imagine having to farm 6 totems as shamy in wotlk times

[woeful juniper]

MoP and legion lego questlines were cool

[civic trellis]

via quests and chain-quests

[gloomy knoll]

i fucking loved legion quests

really made me feel like a rogue

[balmy condor]

yeah the class questlines added a lot of replayability to alts and stuff

[gloomy knoll]

and then you get to the mage tower and it's like this super hard skill challenge

[balmy condor]

made a lot of the community real happy

[gloomy knoll]

to unlock this super cool flashy rogue thing

[hollow river]

Whatever happened to learning your abilities from a class trainer

[gloomy knoll]

like legion actually felt like an mmo

from all that stuff

[civic trellis]

this

[hollow river]

They just expect everyone to boost anyway huh

[woeful juniper]

i guess we kinda have one in SL with the thorghast questline

[civic trellis]

the feeling of leveling 4-5 leves and going to the instructor

and bum

2-3 new abilities, lot of ranks

[gloomy knoll]

torghast quest line pissed me off

it's like i already gotta farm this crap content

but now i gotta do quests here too

[woeful juniper]

lmao

[hollow river]

DECIDING ALL YOUR OWN SPEC TALENTS

[viral locust]

Legion was the good ole days.

🙂

[civic trellis]

and when you had to pay to reset your talents

[balmy condor]

I'm still mad about mage tower cause I stomped all 3 of them on day 1 when they came out cause I was so hyped, and then realized I couldn't replay them, so all my guildies and friends were progging them for like a month and I'm just sitting there all sadge

[woeful juniper]

MoP was bis tbh

[gloomy knoll]

it took me so many tries to get my shit done

[hollow river]

You couldn’t replay them??

[gusty mirage]

I missed out on mop

[gloomy knoll]

had to look up guides etc

[hollow river]

Wtf is the point in that

[gloomy knoll]

i couldn't even do the sub one

i kept getting to where he dropped the puddle

and then just died to the puddles taking over the room

[hollow river]

I just want all the unobtainables

[gloomy knoll]

but this is the thing right

like they take all the good ideas

or the ideas that took a lot of effort and work to make good

and then they just drop em

like just makes no sense lol

[woeful juniper]

yea thorgjast couldve been a better magetower

they just shit the bed with it

[balmy condor]

yeah I wanted to so many times and it was like "CONGRATULATIONS YOU DEFEATED THE THREAT YOU ARE A HERO WE LOVE YOU"

[woeful juniper]

the rewards alone in thorgjast are awful. like really no cosmetics and 1 mount. If there were cool t mogs and stuff with challanges for unlocks

god so much potential

[balmy condor]

yeah that's the other thing

like they add a system

and there's no real reason to do it

like twisting was..... idk... fun?

[woeful juniper]

i thought it sucked xD

[balmy condor]

idk what twisting was supposed to be

[civic trellis]

i think it was supposed to not having a final layer

[gloomy knoll]

i didn't even do twsiting

saw no reason to

[woeful juniper]

took way to long for nothing. only layer that I was happy after I finshed was 8.

[balmy condor]

I did it cause a friend wanted the acheive

[gusty mirage]

yeah it was supposed to originally be endless

[gloomy knoll]

don't like torghast why would i do 18 floors of it for no reason lol

[civic trellis]

Yeah i was pretty excited with that tbh

[balmy condor]

but like m+ rewards kinda aren't there, raid doesn't have a tier set, so that's kinda just more gear, torg doesn't really have anything outside of ash

[civic trellis]

i thought there would be rankings and such but

[balmy condor]

it's kinda ??

they have all these pieces

and none of them fit together

[civic trellis]

m15 giving 210 ilvl have been the most topkek imo

[balmy condor]

and they just try to glue them together awkwardly

and then wonder why people don't like it

[woeful juniper]

new m+ mount is a joke tbh

like really

[hollow river]

My sad vault has been most topkek IMO

[gusty mirage]

they did the same thing with the glad mount tbf

[woeful juniper]

ita the same mount just blue

they couldve atleast switcjed them xD

[hollow river]

That took like

A year to design

Shhh

[balmy condor]

missed opportunities

all around

is the moral of the story

lots of chances to do things

and then doing the same stuff again

with minimal effort

[woeful juniper]

well corona certainly did fuck thinga over

[gloomy knoll]

corona hurts time and manpower sure

it doesn't make you make bad choices

[balmy condor]

which is also wild to me, cause every other game studio seems to have weathered it fine

there was minor delays to a bunch of stuff

but they got it together within a couple weeks

[hollow river]

They’re based in Cali

The worst state to be in during corona lmao

[balmy condor]

I mean this is going pretty off topic at this point

don't wanna get into corona and what states handled it well

[woeful juniper]

Hmmmm MMOs take alot more development than most other games tho. Like its not the same as something like league

[balmy condor]

that's a slippery slope

[hollow river]

XD

[woeful juniper]

yea lets not get political in here xD were far enough of the road already

[gloomy knoll]

like i said

corona hurts manpower

it doesn't make bad game design decisions for you

[balmy condor]

^

in other news

what are y'alls thoughts on kyrian being okay

I don't like the animacharged at all

[gusty mirage]

already at renown 40

[latent stream]

They fixed the Flagellation legendary, the versatility buff now persists throughout the whole duration of Flagellation

[woeful juniper]

uhm its shit to play

[balmy condor]

but I think thematically the soulbinds are sick

[hollow river]

Called it (:

[balmy condor]

yeah that was last week, very cool to see that fixed

[balmy condor]

pelagos having a crazy soulbind is pretty awkward tbh

[hollow river]

Same

[hollow river]

What does it do?

I’m clueless tbh haven’t looked at kyrian since 9.0

[balmy condor]

huge agi buff

[gusty mirage]

yuge*

[hollow river]

Proc like gemstone?

[gusty mirage]

bigly amount of primary stat

[balmy condor]

just a random proc

seems like

[hollow river]

Hmmm

[balmy condor]

not on a timer like gemstone

but similar in effect

[gusty mirage]

has solid uptime too

[hollow river]

Sin rogue go kyrian ?

[gusty mirage]

necro or BUST

[balmy condor]

nah we go necro/venth

sub and outlaw look good on kyrian though

[hollow river]

That would suck tbh

Yeah

[balmy condor]

sub wants venth, outlaw wants necro

[latent stream]

Im necro at the moment but since they fixed the flag leggo Im very uncertain atm

[balmy condor]

but kyrian is close for both of them

[hollow river]

I was outlaw kyrian for keys and sub for pvp in 9.0

[balmy condor]

I'm swapping back to venth atm

[latent stream]

yeah

[balmy condor]

cause I'm planning on playing sub in m+

[latent stream]

On it as well

[gusty mirage]

[hollow river]

D:

Sub in m+ venth giga?

[balmy condor]

necro shit for sub dude what you want me to do

[gusty mirage]

I'm just going to suck it up and play pirate in s2

[woeful juniper]

m+ sub

[gusty mirage]

[balmy condor]

it's pulling about even with outlaw in dslice

[latent stream]

Necro is probably allways gonna be best for m+ at least for assa and outlaw if u ask me

[balmy condor]

oh yeah for those 2 specs for sure

[hollow river]

Did you count the nerfs though?

[balmy condor]

the what

[gusty mirage]

accurate statement, but sub > assa in dps for dungeons

at least in 9.1

[hollow river]

The nerfs

[balmy condor]

it's been nothing but buffs for sub

[hollow river]

The nerfs that have yet to come

[balmy condor]

I don't really see nerfs happening

[latent stream]

yeah sub aoe is kindy busted but night fae with korayn should be best for sub right? at least in aoe

[hollow river]

Really

[balmy condor]

definitely not

korayn is worse than venthyr and kyrian for dslice

and for sustained aoe korayn is giga troll

[latent stream]

Im talking m+

[balmy condor]

yeah

so in m+ korayn is worse than kyrian and venth

[hollow river]

Worse than kyrian....

What has the world come to

[latent stream]

that's good then

[balmy condor]

kyrian got good soulbinds and the legendary giving cooldown reduction to outlaw/sub is actually kinda okay it seems

[hollow river]

I guess I’m hopping on the hype train with you whispyr

I wanna backstab stuff

[balmy condor]

sub is also the strongest aoe out of the rogue specs

so there's that

[latent stream]

Sub is kind of a sleeper man I dont see people talking about it

[woeful juniper]

my m+ group is gonna think i am trolling if come in there playing sub

[balmy condor]

like 6-8 target it smashes outlaw

[latent stream]

yeah

[gusty mirage]

it's been super quiet about sub for sure

[hollow river]

Then thing that sucks is

[balmy condor]

it's just cleave that sucks

[gusty mirage]

which is ironic because most of the rogue changes for 9.1 were for sub

[balmy condor]

but it pumps hella on aoe

[hollow river]

Sub will only be great at like 3 dungeons

[balmy condor]

the buffs are crazy

[latent stream]

they really are

[balmy condor]

can play sin for those if it comes to that

[hoary apex]

venthyr sin not bad?

[hollow river]

I know

[latent stream]

you can do some crazy burst aoe with shuriken tornado, to bad there is no pride buff next patch

[gusty mirage]

venthyr sin is good

[balmy condor]

venthyr sin is very good

[gusty mirage]

just worse than necro when another target appears

[woeful juniper]

well necro is better for doungeons

[balmy condor]

it's close in dslice honestly

[hollow river]

With venthyr leggo?

[balmy condor]

nah

[gusty mirage]

you'd play finality

[balmy condor]

venthyr lego is sub only

[gusty mirage]

in m+

as sub

[balmy condor]

yeah

that too

it's single target only for sub

but in dungeons, no point playing obedience

[hollow river]

Then how is venthyr right behind in dslice

[balmy condor]

?

[hollow river]

I thought there was a bit of a gap

[balmy condor]

cause venthyr is good

like the binds are good

lashing is strong

sbs on sub is awful

[hollow river]

Hmmm

I meant for sin

[balmy condor]

for sin venthyr isn't bad either in dungeons

[latent stream]

Flag leggo really helps sub in st man, they're current leggos are so weak compared to other classes

[balmy condor]

it's just less aoe

but it's in no way bad

[hollow river]

Necro>Venthyr gap

[balmy condor]

let me pull some numbers

hold on

[woeful juniper]

i was set on necro bow I am unsure

why u do dis?

[limpid plinth]

Same 🤣

[hollow river]

This tbh

[latent stream]

I was also set on necro until they fixed the flag leggo

[limpid plinth]

Now i started to think maby i wanna play sub in m+ too 🤣

[latent stream]

so close to venthyr on st but as soon as there is a couple of adds necro feels so much better

[hoary apex]

Sub really only struggles in ToP and to a lesser extent SoA

[woeful juniper]

sub st cant be that bad?

[hoary apex]

ST is not bad, but cleave is very bad

[hollow river]

[balmy condor]

dslice:
8180 necro sin
8090 venth sin

8997 venth sub
8460 necro sub

[gusty mirage]

But door of shadows is so ass

[civic trellis]

do you have st sims?

😄

[latent stream]

what leggo is sub suing in that sim?

[woeful juniper]

this is 9.0.5 right?

[umbral rapids]

Finality

@latent stream

[latent stream]

ok

[balmy condor]

7689 venth sin
7560 necro sin

7761 venth sub
??? necro sub (didn't make the top 100 combos so probably like 300 down)

for single target

[balmy condor]

9.1

[latent stream]

Sims is one thing right but dont forget that you can do some sick combos with master assasin and shurken tornado together with 30% dmg on shadow dance

[balmy condor]

you do know sims account for that right

[umbral rapids]

Is there necro outlaw there ? :)

[latent stream]

yeah ofc but they dont account for dungeon rout or the value of burst aoe

[gusty mirage]

You’d be hard pressed to find Whispyr voluntarily simming pirate spec

[latent stream]

I just mean its nice to have it in the toolkit right

[balmy condor]

7200 single target
9000 dslice

[umbral rapids]

Thanks luv u

[balmy condor]

magma hot take

[gusty mirage]

@balmy condor You’re making me want to switch back venthyr and I hate you for it

Because I know I’ll be miserable playing outlaw in m+

[trim dirge]

venth outlaw is that bad?

[woeful juniper]

outlaw isnt that bad if you dont mind getting arthritis

[latent stream]

it feels pretty bad

[umbral rapids]

It’s ok @trim dirge

[gusty mirage]

My boomer wrists can’t handle it

[umbral rapids]

Sbs is reallt fun though

[hoary apex]

renown is not that hard to catch up on. I'll probably be going venth, and I went necro like 2 weeks ago and I'm renown 35. Going to have to refarm for venth. And I'm sure it will be even easier to catch up next patch

[gusty mirage]

I should just go back kyrian and be that guy

[latent stream]

haha

[hollow river]

Which leggo?

[brisk forge]

Wth now I am torn if I wannna push m+ as sub instead of assa 😳 I mean sub is way more fun IMO and it looks like it will be better then b4 in m+...

[hollow river]

Greenskin?

[gusty mirage]

Probably guile/MA if I had to guess

[latent stream]

by the way do we know how much renown we get every week next patch, is it still 3?

[hollow river]

They’re running greenskin now

Supposedly

[gusty mirage]

In ST?

[limpid plinth]

Same but only cleave sucks with sub i think

[balmy condor]

guile single ma aoe

[hollow river]

Where are the gates greenskin sims x.x

[brisk forge]

Yeah but that’s “only” top and some what Spires 🤨

[hollow river]

Bosses do exist too ya know

And the affix boiz

[woeful juniper]

affix boiz are gonna be pulled into mobs most likely

[hollow river]

Plus how often do 3/5 die

And you have 2 big mobs left

[limpid plinth]

Damn just get out these sub info from here so need to think about it 😂

[woeful juniper]

I doubt anything is gonna come close to necro pirate tbh when it comes to m+

[hollow river]

Sub will be easier to play but how long until that is boring lol

[latent stream]

You can only get so far simming right, there is no way to know for sure what will be the absolute best until you actually get to try out stuff

[hollow river]

Yeah ik

[latent stream]

ppl seem to forget that

[hollow river]

Looks like we’re all a bunch of pirates again

[latent stream]

fk man I really dont like outlaw

[hollow river]

./dies and quits game

[latent stream]

I miss combat

[hollow river]

Honestly they’re all viable

But I bet pugs still kick you if not outlaw xD

[balmy condor]

sims are pretty close to reality honestly idk. This whole "sims don't show everything" thing has been a lot of horsebeating for years

[hollow river]

Yeah sims have bosses etc and cleave

[latent stream]

I agree sims are proabably the best way to predict stuff, but I just think its worth to speculate on diffrent builds

[balmy condor]

there's a reason why all top players sim and follow that

[hollow river]

I was speaking on subs cleave when they said top and spires were the main bad dungeons for sub

[balmy condor]

people not following the sims usually napkin mathed some nonsense

and then correct after a while

[limpid plinth]

Yep when you are good player sims are like 95% true

[hollow river]

Is it just me or

[silent fossil]

so do we use breath, iris, or blood

[hollow river]

Nvm

I’m heading off to bed

[balmy condor]

bye bye

[hollow river]

[dawn ivy]

are those sub sims basing the venthyr leggo off a full 24 seconds of vers?

[woeful juniper]

so what covenant are rwf rogues going? if they even exist?

[hollow river]

[balmy condor]

yes, always have

[silent fossil]

rwf rogues are on their better alts

[hollow river]

Night everyone

[woeful juniper]

[umbral rapids]

good night

[balmy condor]

most of them are rolling venth from what I hear for sin/sub single target

[woeful juniper]

bench is gonna take some dmg

[civic trellis]

Rwf?

[balmy condor]

Race world first

[civic trellis]

Roaming wireless framework?

Ah

[kindred shuttle]

Mornin, how are the daggers from sylvana looking? Are they going to be better then normal daggers? Maybe i am asking too soon, don’t eat me

[balmy condor]

They’re gonna be bis no matter the strength, but it looks kinda good right now

No sims

But napkin math says pretty strong

[kindred shuttle]

Noice

[woeful juniper]

if you manage to drop them

cant wait ti have ce and still bo daggers

[hoary apex]

like good enough that heroic sylv daggers beat mythic ilvl daggers?

[kindred shuttle]

I am sole rogue in our guild

[balmy condor]

Who knows

If they’re that good, they might get tuned in heroic week and then all this speculation isn’t worth a damn anyways

[umbral rapids]

just sim it whispyr and tell us

[balmy condor]

Can’t sim what I can’t sim

[kindred shuttle]

Deep

[umbral rapids]

i need to know if the HC dagger from last boss is better than raid dagger in the raid that drops in 2 weeks

[woeful juniper]

limit and echo running 20 rogues on heroic sylvanas week 2 to trade daggers incoming

[latent stream]

Would be very boring if hc dagger wasnt worth equiping even in the off hand compared to normal mythic daggers

[balmy condor]

Feel free to check my vod if you want to see how sims are looking

[umbral rapids]

haha

i'm just fucking with you the question is funny

[balmy condor]

Fucking boxes and missing effects everywhere

[umbral rapids]

it's not like it matters at all for now

[balmy condor]

[fervent tusk]

is outlaw still ahead of assa in m+ dps wise?

[civic trellis]

Just curious, how items are implented in simc, manually?

[balmy condor]

Easily

[latent stream]

Damn I miss shrouded suffocation

[civic trellis]

Or its like you dump wow db into simc

[latent stream]

and echoing blades

[hoary apex]

SS/EB was the best

[limpid plinth]

Yes

[balmy condor]

Not fully, the effects need to be added, but the basic gear is basically just an import

[fervent tusk]

dang...any ideas between havoc and outlaw? m+ only

[civic trellis]

Rogue

[balmy condor]

Probably outlaw

[hoary apex]

sub

[woeful juniper]

both top tier

probably

[limpid plinth]

Havoc looks strong but i would say outlaw still

[civic trellis]

I wonder if you want a dh because the Magic buff

[hoary apex]

shroud is going to be really good for getting the Anima buffs early

[woeful juniper]

xd just play 3 rogues and atealth to each boss get power and then clear the doungeon

[balmy condor]

Yeah I mean there’s still skips and stuff

[latent stream]

If DH tank can survive high keys they'l probably still be used for the 5% buff, since they got more dps than the other competetive tanks

[balmy condor]

Rogue isn’t a must take, but it gets a little questionable routing wise

[civic trellis]

Oh i see thanks, i guess formulas can be obtained from wow files

[brisk forge]

If meta stays 2 range yea

[woeful juniper]

invis pots to dtrong tbh dhould be removed

[civic trellis]

Nah

Druid is gonna be the way

[latent stream]

I think so to but not if dh can survive right

[civic trellis]

Unless you are doing 15#s

15s

[woeful juniper]

drood tank 3 rogues tree new meta steath man group

[latent stream]

the value of druid tank is a lot lower with 3 rogues in the grp xD

since target cap lawl

[civic trellis]

We tried mists 19 at ptr and our 229 dh got melted in the first pull

[woeful juniper]

just skip the entire doungeon. cant have a bad time if you never went inside

[civic trellis]

Not even Double pull

[latent stream]

Oh ok

[brisk forge]

But with current gear or?

[hoary apex]

229 is basically current gear

[civic trellis]

It was scaled to 230 iir

[humble ginkgo]

Is it safe to sim only crit and haste enchants/gems for sin?

[civic trellis]

Iirc*

[humble ginkgo]

for some reason its not letting me select more than that

I know vers is not something we stack

and mastery is shit

[woeful juniper]

should be fine

[brisk forge]

Sim all? 🤨

Aha

Nvm

[balmy condor]

yeah that's fine

[woeful juniper]

or sim stat weights first and see if something is very off

[balmy condor]

don't do that

stat weights bad

[humble ginkgo]

I have never used stat weights

and I dont think I ever will

[latent stream]

they can be bait yeah

[balmy condor]

skip that's the most beautiful thing I've seen you say since I met you

based opinion

[humble ginkgo]

also people that aim for a certain % of stats

is dumb

just sim

[civic trellis]

Nono

[balmy condor]

2/2 skip

holy shit

[humble ginkgo]

I might be dumb but im not that dumb whisp

[balmy condor]

keep it up

[latent stream]

haha going for % of stats is classic brain

[lyric nexus]

no stat weighs

[humble ginkgo]

I learned from the 40% crit back then

[woeful juniper]

well if you cant actually sim yourself properly with all gems

[humble ginkgo]

you taught me well

[civic trellis]

I want 30% crit 12% haste 0% mast 18% versa

Or i quit

[humble ginkgo]

I could run 2 different sims but I cant be asked because I know the result will be between haste and crit

the sim will not tell me to go mastery or vers

and I am currently full vers because outlaw

and stacking haste/crit is also benefitable on outlaw unless I run Master assassin in m+

crit becomes useless

[balmy condor]

gem sims kinda unnecessary anyway

[fleet anchor]

Realistically daggers won't be implemented until someone can test them. Heard they may be on a vendor soon, but who knows.

[balmy condor]

the difference is so low

[humble ginkgo]

I could just full gem haste

[balmy condor]

doesn't matter

[humble ginkgo]

yea

[civic trellis]

They are so close the difference will fall into the sim error Skip

[fleet anchor]

Too many question marks as to how they actually work

[civic trellis]

:D

[balmy condor]

yeah I know, frustrating

[fleet anchor]

Spell data gives some ideas but really nothing definitive enough to be confident in

[civic trellis]

Why?

[fleet anchor]

Lots of magic scripting going on

No idea how they work in AOE

No idea how they work with dual wielding

No idea if the stacks scale the chance or the damage

[civic trellis]

Uhm so will be based on empirical data?

[fleet anchor]

It will be based on somebody actually hitting a dummy or having some logs and figuring out the answers to those questions 😛

[latent stream]

Go sub and have the sylvans dagger in main hand and the new fist wep in off hand for maximum loot coverage xD

[sacred isle]

I can imagine if they do work with fok ct they will be very op in aoe

[fleet anchor]

We know it has a 500ms ICD on the proc effect, but currently it appears it can proc from yellow hits

[civic trellis]

Sounds fun tbh

[fleet anchor]

But as to how that works with AoE who knows

Don't even know what happens when you use an AoE finisher if the debuff is on multiple targets

[woeful juniper]

would be pog for sub in m+

[latent stream]

very much so

[woeful juniper]

maybe sin ct?