assassination

[vestal wren]

i still don't want to encourage meme spamming in the spec channels

[amber mountain]

Agreed

[thin path]

ofc

[gloomy fern]

yes, to much trolls in here ruining my experience

[amber mountain]

Just saw that one elsewhere and loved it

[compact pumice]

Does it really count as a meme though?

It's very similar to the emote

[amber mountain]

Yeah, but to be fair, those big gifs can make it very difficult to track a conversation

[compact pumice]

That's true

[amber mountain]

especially if they're spamming and all over the place

[compact pumice]

We need small gifs

[vestal wren]

^ the amount of space needed for the emote is rather low

[compact pumice]

[gusty mirage]

[vestal wren]

you know what small gifs are called?

[gusty mirage]

wouldn't animated emojis just be small GIFs with a fancy name?

[compact pumice]

https://i.giphy.com/media/McgWV3RzDQZZNdFWRA/200w.gif

[spice spire]

Some people are peasants that don’t have nitro. Unlucky

[compact pumice]

Damn it's still big

They stretch out even small gifs

[peak bobcat]

Is EP/Vigor better for sire than BS/DS?

[limber lion]

For parsing purposes, yes.

For generally doing more overall damage, yes.

[amber mountain]

for not being BS/DS, no

;P

[scenic root]

Cev farming again

[peak bobcat]

I know it’s close was curious if I could do more overall boss dam with it because of the multidot on remornia

[scenic meteor]

is fleshcrafter's knife any good?

[scenic root]

Isn't that an int weapon?

[scenic meteor]

int like intentionally feed? lol

[civic trellis]

in 2t cleave scenario the apl waits a bit until it uses rupture on the second target

does anyone know why?

[scenic root]

https://www.wowhead.com/item=178789/fleshcrafters-knife?bonus=6805:1472

[alpine latch]

No. That's a caster dagger.

[balmy condor]

int like intelligence

[scenic meteor]

oh its not a normal dagger ;p

[limber lion]

Yep. Haven't posted anything in an hour, and posting 2 messages now for the ez farm.

[scenic root]

No, it's a caster dagger, int as intellect

[scenic meteor]

ah lol mb

im looking through daggers trying to find one to go for

maybe the mists of tirne dagger?

[scenic root]

SD or Mists

[alpine latch]

@limber lion Did I tell you I had a re-clear of Heroic on Friday? Best parses I've had in a while man

[balmy condor]

have you considered droptimizer

[limber lion]

The Sylvanas dagger in 9.1 :)

[scenic meteor]

okok

Ceverion i have 5k valor and my daggers are only 207 and 200 lol should i not upgrade one 🙂

[limber lion]

Good stuff mate. keep it up

[deep solstice]

upgrade both with that ilvl

[scenic root]

But you need to have the dagger to upgrade

[scenic meteor]

they are raid daggers, cant upgrade

[limber lion]

Sure, why not

[scenic meteor]

so should i spam Mists mythics untill i get it?

[limber lion]

Go get a mists dagger

yes

Do you have KSM

[scenic meteor]

lol nope

[lost mist]

aaaaa, i like venthyr so much :c haha

[limber lion]

Because the upgrading system is tied to your achievements

[scenic root]

Do you have +10s done?

[limber lion]

Even if you get a dagger, you can't upgrade it to 220 if you're not KSM

[scenic meteor]

how far can i upgrade without ksm?

[amber mountain]

I have concerns about that one with its lack of stats

[balmy condor]

I'd just wait till 9.1

[balmy condor]

the effect is ridiculous tho

[scenic meteor]

i have half at +10 pretty sure

[limber lion]

Looks pretty decent.

[amber mountain]

I know

just going to have to test some stuff out or sim it vs other daggers

I'll be going for it regardless

[scenic meteor]

ive def done the +5 achievement not the +10 yet

[amber mountain]

Then you can only upgrade to 207

[scenic root]

Valor is useless then if you don't have KSM. Better off trying for heroic raid or wait for 9.1

[scenic meteor]

ah ;p

[lost mist]

keep talking about sylv dagger, i wanna know

[scenic meteor]

prob just wait, only started 3 months ago, didnt think ksm was achieveable, still dont at 214ilvl ;p

[amber mountain]

You can definitely go farm daggers in SD and MoTS, and spend all the valor you have upgrading them as far as you can, but you could also just wait 8 days and go for higher item levels

[scenic meteor]

true

so dump all my valor on mats? lol

[scenic root]

Noo

[alpine latch]

Yeah, this next week is going to be weird .. First week all tier I am not doing m+

[balmy condor]

I mean at this point

go for it

tbh

[scenic meteor]

i mean valor resests next week and no use for it right?

[balmy condor]

yeah

[scenic root]

Are they being dumb and resetting valor... Rip..

[amber mountain]

Yeah, there'll be enough people pushing and trying to get last minute KSM

[scenic meteor]

only my dagger is below 207

[amber mountain]

No official word, but probably?

[limber lion]

Or just buy KSM :')

[scenic meteor]

lol ceve after buying my 235 cloak and leggins i only have 10 k left

[alpine latch]

I plan on selling in 9.1 so please buy KSM

[amber mountain]

Or heal your way through KSM, i have a guildie who did that. he definitely wouldn't earn it in any other role

[delicate bone]

you should do some this week forsure, to get a higher key next week for 9.1

[amber mountain]

That's not to say healing is easy, but you get higher volume of runs and you can count on others to drag you through more often

[scenic meteor]

which should i go for ;p

[white igloo]

whats the fastest way to earn covenant rankings?

[amber mountain]

Don't keys reset between seasons?

[balmy condor]

just pick one

[scenic meteor]

lol ok

[balmy condor]

spam m+

[white igloo]

is it 1 level per m+?

[amber mountain]

Raid, M+, watch the indicator in the covenant screen for anything blocking it

no

it's not 1 per M+

[delicate bone]

i dont believe so

[amber mountain]

the drop rate is about 1/4 based on my runs

[scenic root]

It's a % drop. High % but not 100

[balmy condor]

for the early ones yeah, but as you get more renown, the chance goes down

[white igloo]

im level 10 lol

switched to necro

[civic trellis]

from what i could gather from the apl: in 2t scenario we dont use rupture on the second target if vendetta + shiv is up

is that corrrect?

and does it apply for 3t/4t aswell?

[amber mountain]

you shouldn't be rupturing during shiv windows

[scenic root]

You can rupture in shiv, just press shiv on cd

[civic trellis]

Yeah that makes sense

[balmy condor]

what makes you say that

[civic trellis]

would be indepedent to the number of targets

[civic trellis]

variable,name=skip_rupture,value=debuff.vendetta.up&(debuff.shiv.up|master_assassin_remains>0)&dot.rupture.remains>2

[balmy condor]

okay

so there's your answer

?

[delicate bone]

they will just drop 4 levels i believe like in the past

[civic trellis]

well i wasnt sure if i interpreted correctly that

[limber lion]

That's not target cycle

[civic trellis]

thats why i asked

[balmy condor]

it's correct

if vendetta, and shiv

then skip

[delicate bone]

save all cov stuff and weekly anima/souls for after you get past 30

[amber mountain]

Ah, yeah. But you definitely get a lower key. So pushing as high as you can does make sense

[delicate bone]

its a struggle hwen you get that high

[limber lion]

Yeh true

[civic trellis]

what do you mean?

[limber lion]

Vendetta being the keyword

Nothing, I'm meming

[civic trellis]

actually

its my bad

XD

i said rupture instead of vendetta

[civic trellis]

.

[limber lion]

ye

[echo mantle]

Anyone have a good bit of info on SBS usage? Made the swap (god this ability is fun as fuck so thanks for the recommendation last night) but a bit confused on exact usage.

[balmy condor]

1. bleed everything
2. don't overcap
3. gemstone

in that order

[echo mantle]

Should I be dumping in vendetta windows? During shiv active as a builder?

Moreso for ST (I dont have gemstone yet because RIP renown grinding :D)

[limber lion]

Renown grind takes like a day

just get it over with

[balmy condor]

if you don't have gemstone, just put it in shiv I guess

not having soulbinds isn't really something that's optimized

[sonic schooner]

just dont pick any covenants

[echo mantle]

Just dump during Gemstone then? So im not saving for like vendetta windows?

[limber lion]

Gemstones happen naturally during Vendetta if you cast Vendetta on cooldown.

[shy dust]

it generally naturally lines up that way

[balmy condor]

fun story: while I was doing the pins for 9.0.5, I actually removed the covenant from a profile to make it more generalized, and the entire sim broke because of it

[echo mantle]

Ah thats pretty nice.

[sonic schooner]

"covenant:no-icon"

[balmy condor]

no it just threw an error and didn't sim

didn't even get to the icon

[scenic meteor]

zoldycks or doom for sire hc?

[sonic schooner]

could we actually play whole shadowland without picking a covenant?

[balmy condor]

prolly zold honestly

[sonic schooner]

i would see someone who did that

[balmy condor]

I think it's part of the main story quest to pick a covenant

so not sure how you would get around that, or if you need to even

[fleet atlas]

about to change covs as we speak. necro still looking like the play for 9.1 for sin correct?

[balmy condor]

yuh

[sonic schooner]

yea i think u gotta pick a covenant in order to unlock the whole torghast / venari questline and stuff

not funny blizzard

😔

[scenic meteor]

covenants are bloody annoying

could the abilities not be free rein but then you choose a covenant for cosmetics?

[sonic schooner]

specially as rogue

we went through every single covenant

[scenic meteor]

ik lol

[balmy condor]

we really didn't

if anything, we went through 3

[sonic schooner]

while boomies are rn "wtf i have to change covenant like wtf dood how am i supposed to do that"

[winged basin]

I went from NF to Necro to Venth and I’m going back Necro today lmao

I never thought about kyrian 🤢

[sonic schooner]

started as kyrian cuz it was op op, swapped to nf cuz kyrian got demolished, venthyr was fun so why not, and nowadays necro"

[scenic meteor]

i started NF, went venthyr, went necro, then venth and now back to necro

[limber lion]

Imagine starting as kyrian

[winged basin]

^

[limber lion]

Yuk

[balmy condor]

the only reason we went kyrian was because it had a second potency earlier than the other covenants

that's it

[scenic meteor]

but i started in 9.0.5

[limber lion]

for literally like 30 dps

massive.

[balmy condor]

and I guess pvp nerds thinking it wouldn't get nerfed

[limber lion]

even worse

[scenic meteor]

lol

[sonic schooner]

it was also bis for pvp, the kyrian subrogue oneshot

[limber lion]

kyrian was dead by then and renown timegate was over with

[scenic meteor]

icyveins told me night fae was best so i went with ti

[limber lion]

oh well, it's in the past

We're stinky boys now.

[sonic schooner]

:WhispyrGasm:

where s the gasm emote 😠

[limber lion]

[tulip nacelle]

[balmy condor]

[sonic schooner]

😔

ok ok

[plain thistle]

icyveins? oh no get seli here

[civic trellis]

iv said sub is one of the worst specs to play in m+ in 9.1

[plain thistle]

we need to teach him

[civic trellis]

😄

[balmy condor]

no, the fae recommendation is intentional

[sonic schooner]

sub gonna popoff m+

[echo mantle]

I swear the worst part about swapping from Venthyr to Necro is the Cov armor for Venthyr is slick....the Necro set is....pls no.

[civic trellis]

and they talked with blizzard and we will have sub buffs removed OO

[spice spire]

NF very easy to play

[limber lion]

It's not a guide for mythic raiders, it's a guide for beginners.

[sonic schooner]

i miss my venthyr back so hard

[spice spire]

And isn’t really THAT far off

[sonic schooner]

still have it on my bank

but cant mog it 😔

[echo mantle]

The knives?

[spice spire]

Very beginner friendly 🙂

[plain thistle]

yeah yeah, like a general covenant, I know why its there

[balmy condor]

its easy to play, doesn't require a lot of thinking, the teleport is good, there's soulbinds for m+, raid, and pvp

[limber lion]

Just don't use the sets. Ez.

[sonic schooner]

yep havoks

[echo mantle]

Yeah same. Those are some of the coolest things :[ I wish we couldve chose the cov abilities independently from our actual cov. Wouldve made life better. :/

[spice spire]

Jhonwei trolling

I’ve seen it all now

[plain thistle]

I just want to say good thing to seliathan

[spice spire]

Oh.

[plain thistle]

shh

[scenic root]

The real poggers play would be not use a legendary cloak at all, and wear the tmog item

[plain thistle]

I started as nightfae, would have been full by now

[scenic root]

I was NF for sub to start, then went necro for outlaw, then been necro since I switched to playing sin.

[cerulean raft]

hey guys, can somebody help me? for cleave situations like generals mythic, when do i use mut and when fan for cp generation?

[balmy condor]

mut on 3, fan on 3 to apply poisons, fan on 4 to generate

[cerulean raft]

thanks

[strange python]

what is best covenant for assa m+

[scenic meteor]

necro

[strange python]

How come?

[scenic meteor]

the bone spike abillity is the absolute best for aoe

[scenic root]

[scenic meteor]

^^

[strange python]

thanks

[limber lion]

Venthyr is slightly ahead in single target, but Necrolord wins in other situations.

[strange python]

Are the soulbinds for necro also good?

[limber lion]

Yes.

[civic trellis]

this is for m+ aswell right

[balmy condor]

it's a rule everywhere, yes

[civic trellis]

Thankss

[mental trout]

so in 9.1 you think assass will be alright in M+ or if you are really trying to push outlaw is still the BiS>

[bleak sky]

outlaw is bis still

as of right now, it seems that outlaw > sub > sin for M+

but I'm not an expert, I'll let the adults tell you that

[robust sandal]

is necro or venth going be BiS for ST assasin/outlaw

[civic trellis]

To spread bleeds, do you use mouseover or tab switch guys?

[balmy condor]

yeah minalba's pretty much correct

[civic trellis]

what do you find more comfy

[balmy condor]

most people tab

but it's a preference thing

if you want to mouseover

then go for it

nothing wrong with it

[sonic schooner]

i tab my subterfuge garrot but then it s all on mouseover

[civic trellis]

Yeah i am not used to the tab thingie

[balmy condor]

venth for both I believe

[robust sandal]

awesome, thanks

[mental trout]

i thought necro was best for assasin/outlaw raid and m+ wise

[civic trellis]

Tbh i didnt expected this fun with sin at multitarget

[sonic schooner]

venthyr is better when it comes to pure single target which almost never happen 🤷‍♂️

[stable spoke]

new to sin question; is it better to let the envenom buff drop off than to envenom with low combo pts?

[robust sandal]

so basically go necro then

[balmy condor]

it is

[balmy condor]

yes

[sonic schooner]

i mean, it happens, but it s like 1/5 boss or something close to that rate

[balmy condor]

we never finish at less than max-1 cp

so with vigor, never under 4

[stable spoke]

cool, but it's better to do a low combo pt rupture than let the bleed fall off? As i'm learning i'm still getting a hang of it all

or is never under 4 still the rule

[balmy condor]

it's better to just not let the bleed fall off

[stable spoke]

tyty

[balmy condor]

more than enough time with pandemic

like if you get into the situation where you have to decide between low cp rupture, and letting rupture drop

you're already wrong

[sonic schooner]

!pandemic

[prisma monolith]

Pandemic takes up to 30% of the duration of a applied dot/buff and adds it to your new applied one. The duration depends on the new instance.
Example: Garrote (18 sec) can be extended by up to 5.4 seconds from an existing instance.
Note: Pandemic applies to most but not all debuffs/buffs

[sonic schooner]

no excuses to let rupt/garrot falls off

[balmy condor]

yeh

[civic trellis]

!guides

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[balmy condor]

anything under like 97-98% uptime on garrote/rupture in single target is just trolling

[civic trellis]

do you ct in ST?

i mean, like in huntsman, when the dog goes away i shouldnt refresh ct right

[sonic schooner]

outside of shiv window, yes we do

[balmy condor]

on 2 target you CT regardless of shiv

on 1 target you CT outside of shiv

[warped moon]

[civic trellis]

Uhm thanks, i have raid now, but apl is using envenom with shiv down, i guess its because the env buff?

will ask it later better thanks 😄

[limber lion]

[balmy condor]

envenom is our main finisher?

what

of course it's using it with shiv down

what else would you spend cp on

[cobalt pelican]

i prefer eviscerating

like my spec icon tells me to

[civic trellis]

i thought we would use ct

[balmy condor]

for the bleed bro

please don't spam CT

[ancient kraken]

[thorny pond]

garrote from stealth right?

[civic trellis]

that's what i mean here

[balmy condor]

every time I say "CT out of shiv" I have to add that CT is a bleed I guess

[civic trellis]

if i should spam ct 😄

meant*

[balmy condor]

just add a laundry list of disclaimers

[ancient kraken]

u never spam ct

[civic trellis]

haha

[ancient kraken]

u just keep the dot up

[civic trellis]

Okay thanks 😄

[echo geyser]

didnt u spam ct in bfa?

[ancient kraken]

because thats all it does

[echo geyser]

for some aoe

[mental kestrel]

re-learning sin for next raid, can anyone of u wise sin gamers look over the pure st fights from today and check for major rotational fuckups? dont rly need to look at anything that has more than 1 target since i dont know shit about aoe on sin yet xd https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/malganis/pheynn#difficulty=4&spec=Assassination

[balmy condor]

CT out of shiv:
terms and conditions may apply. CT is a bleed, don't spam bleeds, that doesn't make sense. This doesn't apply for anything more than 1 target, maintain the dot regardless, please see a guide for more info, not available in all locations

[echo geyser]

[cobalt pelican]

think it was only if you had no eb and you were on like 500 targets or something niche like that

but idr

[civic trellis]

now i notice its like i said "do we use rupture on cd" 😄

[balmy condor]

yeah something like that

[faint harness]

Yes you use rupture on cd

[echo geyser]

wait i removed that from my bars tho

[balmy condor]

every other global

[echo geyser]

should i use it?

[drowsy parcel]

[faint harness]

If you cant grasp that, remove it from your bars

Easier to play that way

[drowsy parcel]

i fucking hate covenants dude

i want to dabble with sub next patch

but sbs is bae

[amber mountain]

i have a meme for that...

[west cove]

what if sub is giga

[amber mountain]

#assassination message

[thorny pond]

then it's giga what

[west cove]

need to farm new lego and commit venthyr

[drowsy parcel]

if sub is giga then i gotta go venthyr

i would rather not

[thorny pond]

sin is still very viable

[amber mountain]

I don't know that it's that much of a difference... besides you'll always end up coming back

[thorny pond]

you can play it

[drowsy parcel]

yeah but then we circle back to sbs is bae

[thorny pond]

if you want

venth is good for sin

[mental trout]

yea im pretty sure you could spam CT in BFA

[thorny pond]

https://tenor.com/view/slowpoke-pokemon-water-psychic-gif-7898035

[sonic schooner]

I love to spam CT

[limber lion]

Feel free to spam CT

I'll be enjoying all the free parses

[soft shale]

someone has to get greys

[pale fossil]

Hey stay away from my greys

[thorny pond]

Ct spammers < dead dps < night fae runners < Chad dashing < cev

[soft shale]

dashing may not be a meme

one thing for sure rogue is becoming a cloakmaster this tier

4 cloaks kek

[lone minnow]

what do you guys thinkg about the new trinkets

in the raid

[soft shale]

decanter and gland seem good

rack was also decent

kt one is weird it does little damage for some reason

[lone minnow]

what about amplifier

[soft shale]

not bad

raid trinkets this expansion have been quite good

[lone minnow]

its kinda like the lady trinket

no?

[soft shale]

a little bit diff

[lone minnow]

You think phial is still gonna outperform all of em?

[soft shale]

you have 20 secs to do the hits

[limber lion]

Wouldn't be surprised if it did.

[soft shale]

phial ooze and totem are quite decent if you're venth

[limber lion]

Just be patient

[soft shale]

and even as necro phial and ooze is still really good

only trinket we can sim right now is gland

[plain thistle]

phial + decanter please

[soft shale]

because you just slap a % uptime on the agi

or even make it 100%

[plain thistle]

no on use trinket = 1 extra keybind

🙂

or 2

[limber lion]

Just waif for the Sim Wizards to implement/sim everything

[soft shale]

i tried to implement some things on local

[limber lion]

no on use trinket = 1 useless keybind

[soft shale]

and it was a bother

[limber lion]

[soft shale]

you can use mfd on that bind

hahaha

[plain thistle]

yeah, I dont rebind my trinket keybind too

[teal bloom]

No on use trinket = keybind for pick pocket

[limber lion]

[soft shale]

well at least if they make kt trinket do decent damage

you can use it every gemstones

as it has 1 min cd

and can use the arcane slaps things as venth

fatal procs more or less each 1:30 too

[lone minnow]

Is the equip effect of the sylvanas daggers gonna stack?

that would be dumb no?

^^

[soft shale]

no idea how it stacks

[lone minnow]

or like

if you equip 2 of em, will both of em proc that shit?

or only main hand

[limber lion]

we don't know

we can't test them

we can't get the daggers

[lone minnow]

Aight, just asking ^^

relax 😄

[strange python]

IQD is bad for us right

or there are way better trinks out there rather

for us

[limber lion]

It's great for Venthyr.

[strange python]

interesting

[limber lion]

It's the best trinket for Venthyr.

Still good for Necro as well, but not the best.

[kindred rapids]

Should we be paying attention to sinful revelation when deciding whether to pool?

[limber lion]

No.

We don't track enchant procs or anything of the sort whatsoever.

[kindred rapids]

Not significant enough to worry about?

[limber lion]

No.

[thorny pond]

What cov you going cev? I don’t wanna think for myself today

[limber lion]

Likely Necrolord.

Having the Venthyr quest ready as a backup.

[brazen rampart]

i sudden fractures the go-to conduit for necro?

[limber lion]

Yes, but you should sim it.

WPS sims similarly.

[winged basin]

you gotta do both quests to get teh ability swap yeah?

[frigid kestrel]

Same, I got Venth ready to turn in on demand

[limber lion]

Yes

[winged basin]

word

swapping necro rn, wasnt sure

[desert inlet]

Can you swap and pick up the quest to go back right away?

[thorny pond]

Cool thank you

[balmy condor]

ye

[frigid kestrel]

No, you can not pick it up right away. Once you swap you have to wait until the following week to pick up another quest to change again.

[balmy condor]

wait really

[frigid kestrel]

Yup

I thought it was different until I swapped to Venth to help with Sludge prog

[balmy condor]

I could've sworn that's how I did it with kyrian at the start of the expac

I went kyrian to fae insatntly

[frigid kestrel]

Wouldn’t let me pick Necro change up

[frigid kestrel]

If you’ve never been a cov before you can always instantly pick it up

[balmy condor]

oh true lmao

I'm fried

[limber lion]

I even remember answering this question in Ryfie's discord one day and you agreed

Man's losing it.

[balmy condor]

I just did a halls in 11 minutes

[winged basin]

yo cov swappers

how long does it take to regain renown?

[limber lion]

damn speedy gonzales

[limber lion]

1-2 days for 31+ renown

[balmy condor]

the renown you had is saved

I'm 40 venth, 40 necro

so I'm swapping back to venth atm

and that's gonna be 40 when I swap

[sonic schooner]

i cant wait to grind all the cov 80

[frigid kestrel]

I’m 40 everything except Kyrian and that will never see the light of day. Like a Cev said it takes 1 - 2 days for 31 if you grind it out. And it’s pretty easy, just time consuming.

[oak sky]

yo is it worth to put sbs on every target at the start of council

[balmy condor]

yes

[oak sky]

kk

i gotta juice this normal council renown grind

[winged basin]

where da renown catchup guide at

[oak sky]

oh truuuu

ik you can do heroic dungeons

but i hadnt had time

[balmy condor]

I'm sure wowhead has made MANY MANY guides on that

[winged basin]

nahnahnah

I dont think you get it

the rogue discord providees everything

[frigid kestrel]

Just do keys, campaign, and raid and you will be Gucci

[winged basin]

I am incapable of googling

[balmy condor]

I see

most unlucky

[tight ginkgo]

https://www.wowhead.com/guides/how-to-swap-covenants-grind-renown-best-optimal-shadowlands yw

[sonic schooner]

specially with the 9.1 coming i m spammed by recommendations that s like "How to catchup everything?"

[winged basin]

SEE

[oak sky]

i did callings for the first time in a few weeks

[winged basin]

THE ROGUE DISCORD PROVIDES

[frigid kestrel]

Welp Whispyr has to add it to the pins now

[limber lion]

bruh

lfr

normal

heroic

[winged basin]

LOL

[limber lion]

wb

[balmy condor]

FAQ channel

[limber lion]

campaign

done

[balmy condor]

[sonic schooner]

arenas

[oak sky]

dude i tried to q lfr but couldnt find anything

[winged basin]

I ask, and I recieve

[oak sky]

40 min wait

[winged basin]

no googling necessary

[teal bloom]

Why use google when whispyr is the only search engine you need?

[sonic schooner]

yea besides Sire the queue for LFR is taking its sweet time

[tight ginkgo]

I regret my decision

[oak sky]

i did callings while i was waiting so now i just join normal and h pugs

[delicate bone]

i had much better luck in m+ getting renown to drop over normal/heroic bosses

[winged basin]

nah not whispyr

he work too hard

I bug the rest of you

[oak sky]

m+ takes too long prob

[frigid kestrel]

Legend has it that if you search “Rogue stat scaling” using the Whispyr Search engine, you will catch hands on site.

[delicate bone]

not if you bang out low keys on mists

and more reliable than hoping a random pug raid is capable

[balmy condor]

It’s true

It’s like “do a barrel roll” in Google

Except I’m gonna fuck you up

[winged basin]

is it that easy?..

[frigid kestrel]

So is this new Mega Dungeon even worth doing at all until they split it into two and make it a M+? Havnt looked to much into it, and my Guild Leader is talking about doing it.

[limber lion]

Yes it is, hardmode rewards 233 gear.

M+ is introduced in 9.2

For 9.1 it's m0 only

[frigid kestrel]

Gotcha

[winged basin]

first week of 9.1 reset is mythic dungeon event

[azure bronze]

I wonder if they will nerf the neck that unlocks hardmode

[winged basin]

so free 239 piece

[frigid kestrel]

i guess ill start looking into the shit then

[limber lion]

Who knows if you can even take the neck outside of the instance

or if it just goes poof

[winged basin]

pov: me when I get mythic kelthuzad neck

[azure bronze]

Apparently you can cause I saw this coming by in my guild discord https://twitter.com/Mandl_TV/status/1406344936203722755

Mandl (@Mandl_TV)

@WarcraftDevs "Let's make item level a clear indicator of what's worth wearing" was a BfA saying from @WatcherDev.

This neck has a 35-40% uptime 173 mainstat proc that isn't even on the item budget. It is better than quite a few rank 6 legendaries. What gives?

Twitter · Jun 19, 2021, 8:15 PM

[delicate bone]

its the ptr

[limber lion]

[delicate bone]

atleast wait to complain when/if it makes it to live

[limber lion]

Yeh, you're not allowed to complain about anything that's in the ptr

/s

[delicate bone]

lmfao

[azure bronze]

I mean if you don't complain about it on the ptr it will be bis probably for most classes at the start or even the entire patch until they nerf it on retail

[oak sky]

do we go emeni in m+ and does outlaw?

[delicate bone]

its just as likely that the proc is only meant to work inside that dungeon

[lean coral]

only the transformation is for the dungeon afaik

[delicate bone]

yes

on the ptr, noone knows if thats intended to be how it is meant to work or not

[lean coral]

altho tbh i dont get the complaints

the neck is from a vendor if i recall right

and upgraded through the hardmode quest or w.e

so everyone gets one

[limber lion]

No, Heirmir everywhere.

[oak sky]

ok

everyone everywhere

got it

[delicate bone]

a 226 neck shouldnt be bis over mythic raid gear lol

is the big issue

[lean coral]

hi welcome to wow

all of legion had people fighting for a trinket from a world boss from the first patch

[limber lion]

say that to the mages farming the wrists from mechagon

[delicate bone]

i mean

[azure bronze]

Think it's more the issue that it most likely will make any necks obsolete from the raid just due to the main stat proc on it, if it keeps working as it is now on PTR

[delicate bone]

we used the coral trinket

[lean coral]

bfa had the wrists from mechagon and the proc rings

[delicate bone]

for 8.3

[oak sky]

i just wanted to decide if it was worth getting emeni rn @limber lion

[lean coral]

also people using azshara trinkets in the final raid tier

[limber lion]

I haven't got it

[forest delta]

@limber lion thanks for the tips, really helped

[limber lion]

and I've been necro for like 2 months

[sonic schooner]

look at dat

[oak sky]

haha

[limber lion]

[sonic schooner]

a new big d friend

[limber lion]

Great job!

[sonic schooner]

[lean coral]

this isnt the first time the gear from a dungeon or some other place >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> raid

[forest delta]

on sunking too

[delicate bone]

noone said it was

[forest delta]

:)))))

[delicate bone]

lol

people thought it was dumb then, theyre allowed to think its dumb now

[forest delta]

the only thing I'm bad at, the MA talent thing, still don't know why I don't get it right

[limber lion]

Practice makes perfect.

[scarlet sequoia]

np

[limber lion]

[indigo mulch]

Is 9.1 yet? No? Okay 😦 goes back into his den

[drifting basalt]

guys sry for the super dumb question, I'm not a rogue - attack speed slow poison works on raid bosses, yes?

[limber lion]

Yes

[drifting basalt]

ty! 🙂

[limber lion]

And stacks with Warlock's Curse of Weakness.

[strange python]

The weird thing is. Min maxing 5 ppl to do specific mechanics on mechanics in m+ vs getting 12 to 20 something ppl to do specific special mechanics in mythic raiding. U would think mythic raid gear should be better then m+

[delicate bone]

theyre not talking about a m+ piece either though

its a quest piece from the hardmode version of the new dungeon

even lower hanging fruit than m+

[strange python]

Even fucking more oof then

[limber lion]

You just walk in

and go buy it

[strange silo]

Hi so i just checked the pinned messages and both necro and venthyr are fine so just choose what feels better at this point right?

[limber lion]

Necrolord wins in aoe and cleave, Venthyr is the pick for pure single target.

But yeah, just pick what you like more. Doesn't matter too too much.

[balmy condor]

Bro I can’t even fucking read the question can you slow down

[lean coral]

mythic raid gear was barely better this tier

[limber lion]

If you play multiple specs, pick according to that then.

[balmy condor]

God damn

[limber lion]

[sonic schooner]

if you re going for pure ST AND AoE, just pick ceve in your raid

[stable coyote]

So if I have rogue as main-alt, and its already 40 renown with Venthyr, its really not worth swapping?

[limber lion]

I mean, you have to define "what's worth".

If you want to do more damage in aoe/cleave, then you should swap.

Renown grind isn't too big.

[sonic schooner]

it s worth looking good, transmog is the real ending of the game

[stable coyote]

I mean yeah but in reality you dont bring a rogue for our aoe/cleave, youi want it for the ST which is still gonna be venthyr

so i guess im staying

[strange python]

Damn...just coming back to rogue after a shaman break...did some 15s as assa...and it actually pumps pretty good. Last time I played outlaw was the play (it might still be) but assa feels fun and it didn't feel CD starved like I was worried for.

[limber lion]

Well, not really.

Necrolord also wins in prio and funnel damage.

Even if you bring it for "single target", you gain more in prio damage as Necro

if there's any amount of adds.

[strange python]

To comment on the covenant talk...I'm hearing necro lego is real legit in 9.1

[limber lion]

It's been real legit for 3 months now.

[stable coyote]

aight so im going necro i guess fml

[sonic schooner]

i would say that u wanna be venthyr for burst dmg like sludgefist, otherwise necro is the play

[limber lion]

Just do what you want man

[stable coyote]

dont have that luxury my bro - gotta play whats most optimal

[limber lion]

Whispyr has been looking at the Necro/Venthyr burst windows, and it's not too far off.

Necro burst very similarly to Venthyr.

[sonic schooner]

oh really ?

[limber lion]

yap

[sonic schooner]

on KT cloak and Sludge the burst window is almost the same?

damn

[limber lion]

At least during Gemstones

[pale fossil]

I'd imagine that's because of soulbinds as much as it is Flag vs SBS?

[limber lion]

might be different if you don't have Gemstones for it.

[placid pagoda]

Yeah necro is the play, as soon as 2+ targets it shoots ahead over venth

[sonic schooner]

lemme check some logs

about sludge

[strange python]

Although, I do find it a little clumsy using sbs 3 times and "wasting" 3 globals on it sometimes.

[sonic schooner]

dammit there are PI on every rogues in sludge

[strange silo]

Do you guys know if there is a way to test the abilities if im in a covenant or nah?

[placid pagoda]

SBS, EV, SBS ev

[sonic schooner]

[limber lion]

I'll show you something

[pale fossil]

7 PIs

[balmy condor]

Only was testable during leveling

[limber lion]

Here's my Venthyr 2nd pillar

This is my Necro 2nd pillar

[sonic schooner]

the heck

[balmy condor]

NECRO IS WORSE

ITS WOOOOOOORSE

[limber lion]

necro is dead

[sour wraith]

20 dps breaks the bet

[sonic schooner]

how is venthyr better in sims but so close in reality

[strange silo]

meh ok but i guess the necro ability is easier? sounds atleast easier xd

[balmy condor]

It’s close in sims as well

[balmy condor]

Venthyr is literally just press the button every 1:30

[grim jay]

bcs you cant always use flag as good as it is in sims prolly. apart from that its like 70dps in sims

[sonic schooner]

also what the heck are these envenom total dmg diff

can u crit pls

[limber lion]

nu

but anyways

[balmy condor]

Sbs buffs doomblade btw

[limber lion]

Whispyr simmed the burst windows

and they look literally identical

it's actually funny

Venthyr has a little bump towards the end because it syncs Vend/Flag

but otherwise it looks very similar.

[pale fossil]

Where is my NF Sludge Pillar sim

[sonic schooner]

yea i was sure in my mind that on a burst window venthyr is wayy superior

but no

[grim jay]

the only real reasons to not pick necro is either you dont like it and can afford not being optimal or you wanna play sub aswell

[sonic schooner]

that s fun

[scenic osprey]

i like necro also because the fleshcraft is tanky lol in all content

[cobalt kindle]

lot pf crit in one + PB too

[balmy condor]

It’s true, that’s why I’m going venth

[pale fossil]

I miss Soulshape going away from Night Fae, but Sepsis feels really bad to push haha

[cobalt kindle]

cant rly compare this 2 screen ^^'

[low wedge]

i dont like necro because the pvp weapons are ugly lol, will switch week 4

[icy mason]

necrolord also has bone wings

[scenic osprey]

is 9.1 najia's 10 more sec buff going to be op lol

[grim jay]

ill prolly bite the bullet and pick venthyr from the getgo aswell, atleast as long as nothing major happens to either sub or the cov

even tho I kinda like sbs

[drowsy coral]

I'd pick venthyr too if door of shadows was something else

[stable coyote]

@limber lion - is it still doomblade as necro or does that change aswell?

[pale fossil]

The image of a rogue yeeting a javelin makes SBS feel even better to push imo

[limber lion]

Yes, Doomblade for raids.

[scenic osprey]

and tyranical weeks lol

[drowsy coral]

Wait hold on a minute, door of shadows actually MVP on the new boss with the boulders

[balmy condor]

Well the real reason I’m going venth is cause I asked someone if sharkboy beats lava girl in a 1v1 and the answer was lava girl, which I agree with, and thus picked venthyr on the coin flip

But yeah

Sub venth

[sonic schooner]

Door of shadow BIS?

[drowsy coral]

DoS BIS NECRO IS DEAD OUTLAW DEAD

[grim jay]

ok I thought my reason was valid, but you just beat me

[scenic osprey]

poision bomb is uncapped AOE right

[sonic schooner]

Poison bomb BIS aoe ?

[scenic osprey]

if your tank pulls 10+ everytime prob yes?

or single target

[balmy condor]

Yes it’s uncapped, and it wins in sustained aoe against crimson tempest at 27 targets

[limber lion]

27 targets

love to see it

[balmy condor]

(that’s the actual number, I ran the numbers)

[scenic osprey]

wowhead says its soft capped 20 so its not techly uncapped ?

poision bomb

[sonic schooner]

27 targets only? Sounds like BIS for ardenweald in DoS

[scenic osprey]

bomb doesnt cost combo points thou

[balmy condor]

It’s a weird scaling past 20 yeah

[balmy condor]

And why does that matter

[drowsy coral]

Until your tank starts kiting the birds

[balmy condor]

CT does more than an envenom in single target, so the combo points are better spent there anyway

In 3+ target aoe it’s definitely better than a rupture

Oh not to mention pb is a ground effect and CT is an aoe that’s like twice the size

Pb just bad man

[placid pagoda]

What will the stats for assa be, still crit haste for raid?

[balmy condor]

Yes

[placid pagoda]

If I were to offspec outlaw too, we looking at crit verse?

[limber lion]

still crit haste probably

[placid pagoda]

Dreamy

Raid leader just gave me the go ahead to main rogue come 9.1

[limber lion]

Haste/Vers is fine as well.

[limber lion]

Have fun man!

[placid pagoda]

Aye thanks man, swapping from fury warrior!

[oak sky]

how can heroic pugs not kill huntsman with 2 weeks left

in the patch

[scenic meteor]

fury is in a good spot too rn right?

[placid pagoda]

Disgusting isn’t it

[limber lion]

Eh

[civic trellis]

does anyone have a plater mod that changes color nameplates based if bleeds are up on them?

[oak sky]

im doing like 7k until wipe

[sonic schooner]

huntsman got at elast 4 mecanics that s a lot!

[limber lion]

@balmy condor 's profile does something similar with SBS I believe.

[placid pagoda]

Yeah it’s decent, just lacklustre after a while

[oak sky]

which isnt insane or anything but its more than everyone else at least

[scenic meteor]

i find fury too boring lol

[limber lion]

Can probably be modified how you'd like.

[devout temple]

that sounds lit

[civic trellis]

i have one with sbs

[scenic meteor]

its fast but spamming same 4 things

[limber lion]

Can't you just modify the sbs mod then?

[civic trellis]

Yeah right

didnt think about that

[limber lion]

:')

[scenic osprey]

the dmg multiplyer of envenom is 80 verse CT 98% of ap thats without doomblade, CT is scaled with mastery does envenom too?

[limber lion]

Envenom does scale with mastery, yes.

[placid pagoda]

Yeah raid rotation is very dull

[limber lion]

If that's the question

[balmy condor]

This is all accounted for in sims, but yes envenom is mastery as well

[wet sequoia]

From a 9.1 raiding perspectiv - what makes more sense? assa/sin or assa/outlaw?

[scenic osprey]

prob not outlaw lol

[placid pagoda]

Assa / sin same thing?

[balmy condor]

Outlaw looking a little weak

[frigid kestrel]

those and Mut

yes

[scenic osprey]

sub needs to be buff too i think lol

[civic trellis]

Assa/sub raid outlaw/sin m+ imo

[limber lion]

Probably asking for Assa/Sub

[devout temple]

assassin master race

[limber lion]

But, yeh looking good.

If you play Venthyr, you can just spec to Sub for single target and Assa for cleave

best of both worlds

[scenic osprey]

so mastery as secondary isn't that bad then

[limber lion]

It is.

It's the worst.

[wet sequoia]

Urgh, was kinda looking forward to being a necro boi.

[limber lion]

You can play Necro.

You can just play Sin everywhere.

[placid pagoda]

Necro is literally same

[limber lion]

And Outlaw in m+ if that's something you'd like to do.

[placid pagoda]

Necro gives you the viability to not be a ST only spec

[balmy condor]

Good thing it received like 5 in 9.1

[drowsy coral]

Sub non-believers

[scenic osprey]

i think only drawback is assas is picky about weapons lol other two can mix up weapons

[drowsy coral]

wat

[limber lion]

hmm

[scenic osprey]

but offhand weapon doesnt matter that much ?

[limber lion]

you need 2 daggers.

Sub probably looking at 2 daggers as well

Outlaw probably off-handing a dagger as well

[scenic osprey]

sub can use one hand offhand

[limber lion]

Yes

but why would you

[scenic osprey]

higher ilvl LOL

[limber lion]

Slower off hand is worse

And

We have the Sylvanas dagger

[west cove]

do we

[drowsy coral]

That non-dagger offhand have to be a super upgrade for it to be worth ditching a dagger (for sub)

[kindred rapids]

It's too bad we're not getting sludgefist down. Wanted that parse 😦

[scenic osprey]

it happens often

[limber lion]

Wipe parses are really unreliable

You should not look at them, ever.

I can tell you that 7.3k is not a 99

[balmy condor]

needs to be like 35-40 ilvl to be worth

[limber lion]

Not even close.

[balmy condor]

hardly possible

[west cove]

7.3 is 70

[placid pagoda]

@balmy condor if im mainly raiding is it worth going back to venth ?

[balmy condor]

that depends on you

[placid pagoda]

Damn now I feel the pressure

[scenic osprey]

sim

[strange python]

Yea sbs is a nice non ST addition, but it feels bad to push it so many times in a row for diff targets and use globals on 1 ability imo

[kindred rapids]

True 🙂

[limber lion]

You say that, but you press Mutilate 100+ times a fight.

[scenic osprey]

sbs is good combo builder too cost 15 energy lol

[placid pagoda]

Flesh craft comes in clutch too

[limber lion]

SBS is insane.

[placid pagoda]

And the ranged attack is really nice

[limber lion]

I never use Fleshcraft, need to get that down.

[placid pagoda]

SBS crit full combo straight into a EV is tasty

[sand plume]

Do we know if there are gonna be any current trinkets that are gonna be BIS in 9.1?

[limber lion]

No, Phial is a strong contender.

[strange python]

Valid point, @limber lion ...but it's different. Lmao

[limber lion]

Still waiting for the sims.

[scenic meteor]

do you just use fleshcraft before pull?

[sand plume]

Cool thank you.

[scenic osprey]

always forget to use phial

[limber lion]

Yes, and should also use during encounters as well.

[scenic meteor]

during?

[scenic osprey]

when not affecting dps thou better lol

[limber lion]

Yes.

[strange python]

On use trinkets I just macro to abilities. I know it's not the most optimal route, but its easier for me (I only do 15s and heroic raid...I'm casual ha)

[scenic osprey]

dead rogue does no dps lol

[limber lion]

Each to their own.

[plain thistle]

he wants you to do less dps, to get that easy 100%

[sonic schooner]

i got parse 100 healing on sire

[limber lion]

https://tenor.com/view/shh-secret-chris-pratt-silence-dont-say-gif-17543341

[limber lion]

Just run Leeching Poison and you'll get rank 1's flying

[strange python]

Lolol

[sonic schooner]

Yea true Ceve is cheating on parses. He adviced me to spam CT earleir

on ST

[strange python]

best cove next patch

[limber lion]

[strange python]

ive not played in ages

been playing the weeb game

[sonic schooner]

[limber lion]

Pinnerinos.

[sonic schooner]

u can play a vulpera, it makes you a weeb aswell

[strange python]

yo ngl the weeb game is kinda epic

but seriously tho is there data

[limber lion]

yo seriously

look at the pins

[strange python]

ye

i did

my bby has informed me

[limber lion]

sick

[strange python]

ty for your time

thanks for nothing

[scenic meteor]

??

[limber lion]

?

[strange python]

thank you @balmy condor love u

[scenic meteor]

literally loads of info in the pins

no need to repeat

[limber lion]

what is wrong with you

[strange python]

U DID NOTHING

[limber lion]

You asked

"Which is the best covenant"

[strange python]

WHIS DID ALL

[limber lion]

And the pins have em

[scenic meteor]

bro

[sonic schooner]

the latest pins

[limber lion]

Just go back to your weeb game.

[balmy condor]

can we all calm down

:)

[scenic meteor]

[sonic schooner]

👼

[scenic meteor]

is there rogues in final fantasy?

[limber lion]

There's ninjas.

[scenic meteor]

lol

[sonic schooner]

2.5s GCD

[echo mantle]

Zoldyck on pants for 9.1 still right? That didnt change? (I cant remember the stupid Dom Sockets locations)

[strange python]

yes rogues then ninja

[sonic schooner]

everything is far from rogues

[strange python]

also im only playing chill bois

[scenic osprey]

why sub/outlaw goes kyrian ?

[limber lion]

Yes

[limber lion]

Perfect all-arounder for both.

Venthyr is bad for Outlaw, Necro is bad for Sub

Kyrian is good for both.

[sonic schooner]

necro sub is ... something else... i never know when to press SBS when i m doing quest and stuff with the spec

[scenic osprey]

Dashing Scoundrel isnt good compare to zoldyck?

[sonic schooner]

[balmy condor]

in what context

[limber lion]

Huh?

[sonic schooner]

Whisp being faster?

[scenic osprey]

m+ fortified weeks

[balmy condor]

zold is better

by far

[limber lion]

always

[balmy condor]

I'm at work now, laptop gamers

[echo geyser]

[balmy condor]

we are speed itself

honestly with how fast cev responds I've been getting into the habit of just not looking at a spec channel for like 2 hours

and doing other things

kinda weeeeeeeeeeeird

[scenic meteor]

YO 220th try on raven lord and just got it

thank god

[limber lion]

[limber lion]

Grats, that's a big dick mount.

[sonic schooner]

we have ceve here, fuu in sub

[scenic osprey]

so with the tormented affix would single target be more important ?

[sonic schooner]

who s in outlaw?

[echo geyser]

[limber lion]

Who's not?

[balmy condor]

imagine thinking fuu's in sub

[scenic meteor]

thanks 🙂 220 tries was a bit much tho lol

[limber lion]

Sure is, but gladly it's a daily lockout :P

[sonic schooner]

everytime i check sub channel i see Fuu everywhere

[limber lion]

Took me 134 tries to get Invincible with weekly lockouts.

[scenic meteor]

yep done it on all my chars since ive started playing

but was that when you could skip to lich ceve?

[limber lion]

Hahaha

No.

20 minute runs

Every time.

[scenic meteor]

invincible takes too long lol, i do it on like 2 chars

[balmy condor]

in terms of CF/blades, we have me in sin, me/fuu in sub, guy/lok/solo/vaughn in outlaw

and then weak and seli are kinda sin bros

koji/mystler are simc devs

and that's bout it

[scenic osprey]

so the value of zold is dependent on how long they live under 30%

[sonic schooner]

Ceve not even listed 😔

[scenic osprey]

35?

[limber lion]

Well, not really.

I mean, sure.

[violet hemlock]

So Im still working on getting necro renown up, whats the second potency to run?

[limber lion]

But like

If you're comparing Dashing and Zoldyck

in a 8 target fight

Zoldyck benefits from all bleeds and poisons

Dashing gives you energy (which you have an infinite amount in aoe)

Zoldyck just sees positives in AoE

And the more targets you have, the better it becomes.

The more targets you have with Dashing, the worse it gets

kind of.

not really

Just to exaggerate a point

[limber lion]

Uh, you can run WPS/SF

[strange python]

I did a mists earlier and felt energy starved during aoe, in the middle of it...and realized I wasn't speced into vigor. Feelsbadman rip

[scenic meteor]

ouch lol

[limber lion]

You shouldn't feel energy starved in the middle of packs even with DS/MFD

[balmy condor]

cev also isn't a CF or a blade

[scenic osprey]

what about single target , always do doomblade expect certain fights like sire ?

[limber lion]

Yes, Doomblade is the best choice for single target (currently)

[strange python]

Hm then I was clearly doing something wrong haha. I only have about 19% haste, I believe.

[limber lion]

Whispyr and the TC wizards are still in the middle of simming 9.1 stuff.

Dashing might pull ahead, who knows.

[echo geyser]

how many bleeds did u have up tho?

[limber lion]

Haste gets worse and worse the more targets you have, because you have infinite regen after 3 targets.

You need to make sure to apply bleeds to everything around you and keeping poisons up.

[scenic osprey]

prob need to spec into master poision too for dashing >

[limber lion]

Definitely not.

That shit's dead.

Never play MP.

[echo geyser]

why would u neeed MP?

[scenic meteor]

there it is

[echo geyser]

for more slows or what?

[strange python]

Yea...that 100% was my problem, probably (I don't 100% remember ha) but I'd guess I only had bleeds on my main target.

[echo geyser]

yeah if u dont spread ruptures in aoe u gonna starve for sure lol

open with 4 garrotes alrready sets u up pretty nice

[limber lion]

Definitely get that out of your head.

[scenic osprey]

before re apply CT should get 3-4 rupttures out i think

[limber lion]

The strength Sin gets in cleave is the ability to multi-dot.

[strange python]

I guess I gotta get used to my aoe having to ramp up and not having GREAT burst aoe. I assume getting garrotes and ruptures on as many targets as possible is more important than spamming my aoe finisher?

[balmy condor]

depends on target count

[echo geyser]

sin rly isnt a burst aoe spec apart from the nieche MA NS build lol

even then i heard its not good tbh

[scenic meteor]

is there any harm putting 2-3 cp ruptures on targets if you dont think they will survive long?

[scenic osprey]

more keep envenom buff up too

[strange python]

Ok...sorry, used to my enh sham with chain harvest and that pumping hard right away. Lol

[echo geyser]

over zolds