assassination

[balmy condor]

Stop talking please

[mighty hazel]

because of high agility

[soft shale]

ahahaha

[balmy condor]

If you don’t know what you’re talking about

[hollow river]

CD alignment practice bby

[balmy condor]

Please stop talking

[mighty hazel]

i know

[cyan dew]

😆

[mighty hazel]

you will see that 250ilvl will make assass and warrior godlike 😄

[frigid kestrel]

Sub M+ is gonna be the play for me more then likely.

I just don’t get down with Pirates

[gusty mirage]

[hollow river]

But whispyr

[balmy condor]

That’s not how that works and you should be ashamed to think that honestly

[hollow river]

We scale better

[soft shale]

sub is really easy now just dont int long fws on cleave

[frigid kestrel]

Please Don’t Say this ever

[mighty hazel]

you will see bro

[hollow river]

It’s the truth (:

[frigid kestrel]

O no

[hollow river]

By .3% per 100 ilvl

[balmy condor]

One sim. Show me a single sim. Showing the evidence

[frigid kestrel]

#LurkMode I’m done here

[balmy condor]

Half a sim

A quarter

Anything

Show me math on a piece of toilet paper you scribbled the maddening descent into chaos you are entering

I don’t care

[gusty mirage]

What about a 5-6 target 30s sim with lust?

[balmy condor]

I would like to see anything

[soft shale]

just get 11 pis like our boi passasin

real strong class

[mighty hazel]

even now guy make 3052 with that low agility and ilvl imagine when he have 259 ilvl

[gusty mirage]

Backstab is just memeing come back we love you

[balmy condor]

What does this even mean

[soft shale]

sinister calling died in wod my friend

[balmy condor]

@mighty hazel please don’t spread misinformation

[soft shale]

we dont have extra scaling from agi apart from leather specialization

[mighty hazel]

warrior and assas getting effect alot of then other specs classes

[gusty mirage]

No they don’t

That’s literally not how any of this works

[hollow river]

[trim dirge]

I don’t understand why so many people get trapped in this concept of ilvl scaling

[mighty hazel]

why are we even talking you will see anyway just wait some guys get gear 250+ and sit top dps

[scarlet spade]

Didnt yall just say you could not find 235 cloaks for under 90k?

[mighty hazel]

not ilvl scaling its agility scale

[gusty mirage]

Well agility goes up with ilvl. So yes ilvl scaling.

[hollow river]

It’s different for every server I just got one 5 minutes ago for 20k

[trim dirge]

It’s the same thing lol

[balmy condor]

Where do you think the agi comes from

I’m honestly curious

Where does it come from

[hollow river]

Ilvl

[mighty hazel]

yea but like maybe he think im talking about dps haste crit etc thats why i said agility

[frigid kestrel]

It hurts just to read this exchange. Can’t tell if troll or serious

[balmy condor]

It’s the same stupid fucking concept

[balmy condor]

It’s still wrong

[gusty mirage]

I think this individual is serious

[balmy condor]

Like

Why

[gusty mirage]

And I’m scared

[scarlet spade]

ilvl and agi go hand in hand.

[mighty hazel]

lmfao you are so funny xD

[hollow river]

I wasn’t being serious merely quoting someone.

[fallow otter]

@balmy condor what's the necro go? Emeni full left side WPS and the maim one?

[balmy condor]

Show me evidence

[delicate bone]

He’s right though..

[gusty mirage]

Heimir

[hollow river]

Heirmir with gemstone

[mighty hazel]

how i can show evidence there is no 250+ilvl guy in game

like how i can shot

show

[balmy condor]

Show me a sim

Show me historical data showing that ilvl specifically was the cause for sin being good

Show me anything

You have a belief

[frigid kestrel]

Side note, !help is missing the !def command. Unless I can’t read

[balmy condor]

So clearly you have data and evidence

Right?

You have to have gotten your ideology from somewhere

[gusty mirage]

!def is relatively new so you’re probably right

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Defensives usability: http://tiny.cc/q602uz

[balmy condor]

Where did you get it from

[mighty hazel]

no its always has been assass and war always get so much scale second expansions

[hollow river]

Word of mouth

[balmy condor]

SHOW ME

FUCK

[frigid kestrel]

Ye, I thought I heard it was added. That’s the only reason I said something

[balmy condor]

STOP TELLING ME

[mighty hazel]

and alot alot of peoples saying that to always

[balmy condor]

SHOW ME

[mighty hazel]

im telling you you will see anyway in 2-3months

[hollow river]

[balmy condor]

THATS NOT EVIDENCE

[gusty mirage]

Yeah a lot of people said fire mage was going to be dead in shadowlands. Funny how that works.

[mighty hazel]

then we can talk i dont need evidence i know what will happen

[gusty mirage]

It’s almost as if people talk out of their ass

[hollow river]

Ok this is too much I’m going to bed

[balmy condor]

You can see the future?

[soft shale]

good night my man

[mighty hazel]

yes

[hollow river]

Night night everyone

[tame ravine]

this is hilarious

[hollow river]

❤️

[balmy condor]

Then can you tell us what’s happening in 9.2?

What’s the spec of choice

I’m 9.2

[gusty mirage]

Do we finally get conduit energy removed?

[mighty hazel]

assass will drop dps but when second exp come he will be top again

[balmy condor]

Get the fuck out of here

[mighty hazel]

xd

[frigid kestrel]

Even if this theory was the case. This rumor was based on secondary stats scaling to make us pew pew harder. And secondary stats now had DR. So if your theory was correct (which it isn’t) the DR would hinder the infinite Haste scaling theory that people magically have all the time.

[balmy condor]

He’s not even on that

This dude has huffed so much paint thinner he’s abandoned all hope for the secondaries

He’s on AGI SCALING

[gusty mirage]

Magically at 250+ ilvl assassination will just do a billion more dps

[frigid kestrel]

Dude that’s even more wild then the secondary stat scaling shit

Wtf are you actually on?

[mighty hazel]

i will be have fun in 3months 😆

[gloomy knoll]

this is a rare case of aggressive ignorance

crikey

[frigid kestrel]

Agi Scaling, how?

[mighty hazel]

thats good to see this talks

[gusty mirage]

This ridiculous belief that somehow other classes don’t scale the same with primary stat

[gloomy knoll]

welp

tornado warning

gonna go hide in the basement

[gusty mirage]

Like it’s super duper special strictly for warriors and assassination rogues

[mighty hazel]

i enver said that oxi lol

i said assass and warrior scale better

[frigid kestrel]

This hurts my brain, where are the numbers?

[mighty hazel]

i didnt say other specs not scale

[fathom swift]

[cobalt pelican]

banana for scale

[gusty mirage]

That’s exactly what you’re saying. You’re implying that the other classes don’t scale the same as one spec and an entire class

Which is actually impressive, your point is getting worse the more you try to explain it

[balmy condor]

Aight let me try something else. We are currently 220 right? At 300 item level, what do you think will happen with subtlety in comparison to sin? Do you think sin will beat subtlety because of the agi scaling?

[soft shale]

only class/spec this patch that has been proven to outscale is shadow priest but even then blizz can just aura buff/nerf whatever they want

you cant just predict the future

[mighty hazel]

i never say different im saying from the start that assass and warrior scale better

[gloomy knoll]

i swear to god if this shit rips up my garden

i'm gonna sue earth

[balmy condor]

Hacha you’re next on my list with this shit I’m actually sickened

[gusty mirage]

“I never say different, but these guys scale better”

[ember jay]

[mighty hazel]

why dont we just wait ? 😄

[gusty mirage]

They have to be inherently different to scale “better”. You realize that right?

[earnest remnant]

i see a scaling comment being made comeback 5 min later and see this, fcking love this content

[balmy condor]

I can show you numbers right now

[balmy condor]

Tell me what you think happens from 220 and 300 ilvl between sin, and any other spec in the game

And I will show you what actually happens

[gusty mirage]

Because you’re spreading wrong information based on something you came up with based on other people talking out of their ass. It makes life significantly harder for people who want to try to help others.

[fallow otter]

Ty bois @dusky plaza @hollow river

You guys run sudden fract or wps?

[soft shale]

always sudden unless sludge

where wps is better

[gusty mirage]

SF usually beats out WPS, my 200 ilvl beats out my 213 WPS

[gloomy knoll]

why are we waiting when we have empirical evidence and hard data to back up the fact that what you're saying is baseless and wrong, just accept it and move on bro

[gusty mirage]

But like Dino said, for sludge you need more on demand damage so you’d play WPS

[balmy condor]

Asking once more to give me an example so I can give you evidence

[ember jay]

[earnest remnant]

literally saw the comment being made said to myself, i gotta comeback to this cuz whispyr is gonna tear him a new one

[frigid kestrel]

This isn’t a place for false theory’s, this is a home to gain real time factual information to help the entire community out. This false agi scaling is extremely misleading to anyone who doesn’t know. Se unless you can provide hard evidence to back up your claim, you should just …… idk peace out ✌🏾

[fallow otter]

Cheers boys

[balmy condor]

Let me educate you man I just want to get rid of the nonsense misinformation

[balmy condor]

Out of curiosity as well, since your in marcelians discord, did you get the idea of scaling from fuu on the podcast about sub

[fallow otter]

Us 2 rogue mains guildies who are playing ww and Hunter coz of ce race jumped on the rogues lastnight we both didn't know any of the latest stuff was weird lol. Are the sbs changes already in? Seems like it does now dmg than I remember

[cobalt pelican]

bone spike got buffed by like

a bajillion% in 9.0.5

if you haven't played since then

but nothing else has g one live since then no

[fallow otter]

Just been nightfae only logging on for raid 1 night clear then no wow til the next week so I'm out of the loop

Also rogue is alt just take him to mythic farm incase we switch to brm or something

[inland hull]

Hello, is there a specific channel for log reviews?

[gusty mirage]

You can post em here

[frigid kestrel]

You can usually link them here and someone will go over

@limber lion is extremely good at looking at them. If you see him around ask him to take a look and he will get you straight.

[inland hull]

Awesome! Good to know! I'm swapping over from fury, so I'm trying to be less zug zug.

[frigid kestrel]

4 Capes in AH at 6k Per.... Gonna buy em all and hold onto them for release

[fallow otter]

Legendary upgrade?

Just got one for ww gotta get rogue one aswell ok

[oak sky]

I see a lot of talk about scaling, personally, my take is fish and lizards scale the best.

Might be controversial idk

[dawn ivy]

this has been a fun discussion to catch up on

am i wrong in thinking primary stat doesnt "scale" with anyones class? doesnt it just go up a very strict linear line?

secondaries would obviously effect the curve of the line but just adding primary would result in a striaght line, no?

[fathom swift]

yes, but the gradient of the line would be different

[dawn ivy]

mm yes gray dent i understand

[fathom swift]

stat scaling not being relevant isnt really cause of that tho, it's more to do with the extra systems that get introduced making it irrelevant

[balmy condor]

to put it in simple terms

ww scales like a minnow, and sin scales like a tuna, but you can't tuna fish cause a guitar got 12 scales musical notes that's theory crafting

know what I mean

[humble ginkgo]

do dots crit in gemstone window?

[dawn ivy]

mm yes

[balmy condor]

yep

[humble ginkgo]

what is correct opener

on 2t

[oak sky]

Give me tuna

[humble ginkgo]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[balmy condor]

with what talent

[humble ginkgo]

CT EP vigor

[balmy condor]

subt or ma

[humble ginkgo]

I always find myself like struggling on dots

MA

like even on 2 dummies I find it hard early but then it stabilizes

and dots are easier

but I dont know what to put up on who early

[balmy condor]

ma you gonna sbs snd sbs the other boi, hit em with a gar, then a rupt, vend into a shiv vanish mut rupt the other dude, ct that shit, then hit em with a gar cause that's coming up

and then you got 2 rup, ct, 2 gar, both sbs

freelo

[humble ginkgo]

I vendetta main target, shiv main target then swap to 2nd target?

that sounds like a huge loss

[oak sky]

Isnt not having everything up a loss tho

[balmy condor]

^

[oak sky]

Also its the opener

[balmy condor]

that's the bigger thing

we shiv in aoe and then never cast an envenom

whats up with that

huge loss am i rite

[humble ginkgo]

ok so

GAR rup main target first

hit em with a gar, then a rupt, vend into a shiv vanish mut rupt the other dude, ct that shit, then hit em with a gar

the 2nd gar

guessing its for the 2nd target

[balmy condor]

yeah

[humble ginkgo]

ok

[balmy condor]

gar rup the first

then pop off the vend on that guy

then you rup gar ct

and then finish with the first boy

[humble ginkgo]

CT is so like

monka

bc it goes on pandemic same time as rupture

at least every time I tried it

im guessing CT is just better on 2t

[balmy condor]

you prio rup on 2

ct on 3

[humble ginkgo]

CT on 3 target?

[fallow otter]

Im offended

[earnest remnant]

prio ct over rupture on 3

[fallow otter]

[balmy condor]

no like in 2 target, you would rupture first, then ct

in 3 target, you would ct first, then rupture

[humble ginkgo]

Oh ok

thanks

[balmy condor]

np boo

[humble ginkgo]

please dont call me boo again whisp

[oak sky]

I like just swapped necro gotta do some lfr tonight renown

[balmy condor]

damn thought we had something fr

[humble ginkgo]

necro bis

love hate relationship

[balmy condor]

tru, I love hating you

[humble ginkgo]

[oak sky]

Im keeping my venthyr mog on even though i swapped

[humble ginkgo]

its fine

ill most likely play outlaw because im more comfortable on it

but I want to be comfortable on sin aswell

since its kind of op

[balmy condor]

a worthy challenge for yourself

I respect the grind

[humble ginkgo]

[oak sky]

Im gonna practice outlaw when i do dungeons for renown

Should be fun

[primal quail]

[torn atlas]

Is there any reason why you need to refresh both as soon as they are in pandemic tho? Like if it's 7 sec or 2 sec of pd it's effectively the same gain right?

[humble ginkgo]

Idk why but im scared to lose my groove on outlaw

[torn atlas]

Not asking you specifically, general question on if I misunderstand p how pd works

[humble ginkgo]

so every time I hit dummy i feel forced to play outlaw

because I completely forgot how to play sub

after playing outlaw

[humble ginkgo]

idk I was just told to refresh them as they come

so sooner the better I suppose

[oak sky]

I think whenever is convenient is best

[fathom swift]

theres no damage difference between doing it at 7.2s or 0.1s

[humble ginkgo]

just listening to the guide

anyway i go sleep

[balmy condor]

yeah anytime in pandemic is good

don't need to do it at the start

pandemic is there to give you time to do it whenever

[torn atlas]

It's just stacks that remaining CD time onto the new one. So as long as in the windows at any time is fine.

Sweet.

[balmy condor]

ye

[torn atlas]

Haha I thought I had missed something and thought I better double check my knowledge.

[humble ginkgo]

Oh alr

I thought I HAD to do it at 7 sec

And gar at 5

Also idk why but learning sin is like 5x as hard then when i had to learn outlaw

Im j not good with dots

[balmy condor]

we're all good at our own things

[humble ginkgo]

[waxen oar]

Do we have an idea of what spec will be better for raid next tier? Assass or OL?

[balmy condor]

sin probably

[fallow otter]

New gear gonna be a problem

[oak sky]

yup

it actually went away when i logged back in

forgot it was gonna do that

ill either have a shit mog or ill go raid mog or something

[strange python]

wondering if zoldyck will be the go-to for raiding with heirmer execute

[balmy condor]

no

zoldyck kinda sucks in single target

[strange python]

gotchu

do ppl use zoldyck for sire?

[dawn ivy]

kinda

[strange python]

cuz of the p3

[dawn ivy]

only for people who REALLY needed p3 dam

[strange python]

makes sense

ok

[dawn ivy]

doomblade still does great p3 dam

[strange python]

doomblade too good huh

[balmy condor]

zoldyck is aoe or specifically for the execute niche

[dawn ivy]

very few people were running sin this tier until 9.0.5 and by then most guilds didnt NEED p3 dam, rather just needed people to survive second ravage

[balmy condor]

but like sludge? hungering?

really super trolling if you run zold

cause the single target is so much worse than doom

[strange python]

tru tru

that makes sense whyspr

and gotchya @dawn ivy

also makes sense

[dawn ivy]

i would be lying if i said i wasnt excited to see execute gems/zold/double sylv dagger/necro/blindside damage

[strange python]

that sounds p legit

am also v excited to see what we have in store for us

[balmy condor]

yeah the execute looks good

but it doesn't matter if it's just worse overall ya know

there's no real execute me thinks

maybe sylv

[celest steeple]

Hi guys what Covenant you will choise for Raiding in New raid as assasination rogue

[dawn ivy]

yeah overall it will be rough looking, but im certain ill check a kill with that setup just to see final phase of mythic sylv

maybe not first kill though lmao

[dark lake]

+1 that... Trying to figure out if I should change my covenant from NF to NL or Venth

[celest steeple]

Maybe i will Just rank up all Covenant for 40 Renown and wait to see what big brains will play

[balmy condor]

got a pin on that

[dark lake]

I mean yeah I saw the pinned message but it didn't convince me lol

[balmy condor]

you have to make your own decision

you can argue one or the other

and there is no "best" until we actually see how it works in practice

[dawn ivy]

"it didnt convince me" just fucking killed me holy shit

[strange python]

my guess is NL

[dawn ivy]

[balmy condor]

I mean if you haven't noticed, all the pins I've written, in both channels, are vague on purpose

so makes sense

[celest steeple]

@balmy condor i see your pin msg tnx homie

[dark lake]

Yes and no, because changing to a covenant you've already been in is also a big pain in the ass

[balmy condor]

[vestal wren]

i think best is to just pick the spec combination you like most and go to that covenant

so you can test it out in 9.1 release

and if you disslike the choice just switch in hero/mythic week

[celest steeple]

[vestal wren]

kyrian might be rly strong in pvp

so you have even more things you can consider 😛

[dark lake]

Yeah that's probably good advice. Anyway by the looks of the pin I definitely need to change from NF no matter what, so might as well go back to NL (which I started with)

[vestal wren]

i mean nf could recive some last minute buffs

[outer zinc]

Hey guys, when do I use shiv in a 2-3 target situation? I can't seem to find time to use shiv/envenom spam while maintaining rupture/garrote/CT on multiple targets

[balmy condor]

on cooldown

you don't care about the envenom spam

[dark lake]

When you have the chance, preferably right before you get 5/6 cp

then spam envenom for the bonus

Although I might add - the envenom spam isn't THAT important if your bleeds are running off

I usually use what HeroRotation suggests... Most of the times it's right

[balmy condor]

you only envenom for slice and dice in aoe

that's it

[upper elm]

i wonder why raidbots shows a diffrent opener now

[dark lake]

Opener depends on the talents you have

[upper elm]

first it was sbs,snd,mut,gar,rupture,vendetta shiv, vanish and so on, and now with same talents, sbs,mut,snd, gar,sbs,sbs,rupture

[sand sigil]

if u have high enough crit and were really trying to min max wouldn't the like last like 7ish globals in a big mob pull just be fok env spam?

cuz any additional ruptures would just last like 7/32s

[balmy condor]

yeah if things are dying then obviously slam that envenom

[sand sigil]

okok just checking

[balmy condor]

but core rotationally

no reason to env

[earnest remnant]

it was like that in bfa if i remember correctly after you had couple of ruptures out and if specced ct you would just envenom the rest for prio

[balmy condor]

well yes, for prio

that's also a different story

[earnest remnant]

but you also had echoin trait doing your aoe dmg

[outer zinc]

I see. What about using vendetta/vanish with the master assassin talent on the same situation? In bosses like Huntsman or Darkvein, vendetta/vanish is up during the add spawns and i'm kinda torn on what I should be pressing to be optimal.

[upper elm]

any suggestion, or is it just sim got lucky crits on pull and used sbs first cause gemstone window o_o

[balmy condor]

there's a condition to cast snd at 3 or more cp

[upper elm]

okay so if sbs crits its more >= 3 cps and snd because of that

[balmy condor]

yeah

[cyan dew]

The raidboots opening is usually right? @balmy condor

[vestal wren]

raidbots opening is one sample of it

its usually right but could have some edge cases

[shy dust]

Wasnt this changed

To even cast SnD at 1 cp

[balmy condor]

Yeh just isn’t pushed

So he’s still suffering from it

[dire spoke]

tfw sbs doesnt crit out of stealth

[teal geyser]

• Doomblade is looking to be the best legendary for raiding in 9.1. Craft it on a cloak. Dashing might also be good, will have to wait on sims.

i dont get it... maybe iam stupid ^^
doomblade is just available on shoulders / hands... does it mean i should craft dashing on cloak?

[limber lion]

We get a new slot for it in 9.1.

[teal geyser]

aahhhh okay

[limber lion]

So we have gloves, shoulders and cloak to choose from.

[teal geyser]

thanks for the reply man

❤️

[limber lion]

No worries mate

[mortal pike]

Hello fellow rogues.

https://tenor.com/view/fellowkids-steve-buscemi-kids-how-are-you-gif-5510636

It has been decided, rogue is the 9.1 main swap. BACK TO THE ROOTS.

Any necrlorders in the chat?

[limber lion]

Welcome back

Yeah, most of us are stinky boys.

[umbral rapids]

Salute

[mortal pike]

time to start grinding soul ash 💤

[umbral rapids]

You could wait for next patch I suppose

Takes 3 weeks to get a rank 4 if you do 2 wings a week.
Potentially less depending how much soul ash additional runs give

[limber lion]

If you're a gamer, you'll just grind it out during the first few days.

[modern heart]

[vestal wren]

rogue looks decent so far

i am excited to see what people pick from the 3 covenants and specs

i have the feeling we might see some kyrian

[modern heart]

i was yelling at my rl yesterday during raidmasters that the rogue would overtake the dk on sire and he did so im good

amz hell is real boys runb while you can

[vestal wren]

i have no idea how well amz works in 9.1

[modern heart]

imm swapping either way so its fine

[vestal wren]

the wfr will have quite some impact on the meta

[shrewd night]

ur particularly stinky

[modern heart]

hope to see at least one during wfr

[vestal wren]

dk is still fairly strong and amz has good use cases

[modern heart]

oh no i mean rogue

[limber lion]

[mortal pike]

you hate to realize you let 15mill gold worth of xmog expire while playing tbc 😩

[limber lion]

I'm almost sure we'll see some rogue action in WFR.

But who knows.

[modern heart]

is there a point, and if so where zoldyk overtakes doomblade?

cause i feel like rogue execute has a lot of potential

[shrewd night]

Multitarget

[balmy condor]

The problem is you need execute to matter

[modern heart]

ye but with lets say heirmir tree and sylvanas daggers, obviously need to wait for sims

it just sounds cool

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[balmy condor]

Sure but you wouldn’t play zold with that

[modern heart]

oh

[balmy condor]

And the rest is just passives

You’re getting those anyway

For free

[modern heart]

well there goes my fantasy

[balmy condor]

Zold single target is dogshit

Just be like That

[limber lion]

Zoldyck + Mnemonic Equipment + Blindside + Sylvanas Daggers =

[balmy condor]

It doesn’t interact with any of those afaik

[soft shale]

or be a warrior and me condemn me get my cp forever

lets bug report envenom not working with zold everyday too

[balmy condor]

Maybe the mnemonic ticks from bleeds are buffed because the bleed does more damage

[limber lion]

But yeh, I prefer overall damage. All the Zoldyck fanboys can play Zoldyck and I'll get all the big boy parses with the Doomyboy

[balmy condor]

But I hardly see that making zold good

[limber lion]

[fallow otter]

But where is my monk debuff gonna come from

[soft shale]

maybe dashing does a run and gun

[balmy condor]

I’m crafting dashing just because I want to tbh

[soft shale]

its 1% or so worse or 2% right

[balmy condor]

Way less

[vestal wren]

zold isn't bad if the fight is not pure st

[balmy condor]

Sims atm have it within 15 dps

[soft shale]

oh then no joke maybe dagger stonks it up

[limber lion]

I agree, I think Sylvanas might be the only encounter where we might see it - assuming there's a dps check for the last phase. We don't actually know that yet.

[vestal wren]

soon™️

[modern heart]

picture this: you're pumping, obviously. but this aint even your final form, you're playing the godlike ass rogue, ez mechanics and big dmg cause dots are balanced and you know it. the boss hits 35%, your sylvanas daggers are starting to show their potential, you overtake some average firemage that just used his combust again. your Mnemonic Equipment has activated you're blasting, your blindside is starting to proc like crazy. You're Basically Gon now ( aka best friends with Zoldyk). you're pumping so hard you OVERTAKE the spriest. top dmg has been achieved. you kill the boss, get world first. everyone is chanting your name, you did it. you made rogue great again.

[balmy condor]

I think people remember legion zold being giga and Just overhype it

It’s much weaker in comparison now

[shrewd night]

And then you wake up.

[balmy condor]

Problem with this is that our dots don’t do shit

[sick scarab]

i want a dashing scroundrel, master poisoner, poison bomb super build LOL

[modern heart]

stop ruining my dream

[balmy condor]

100% extra damage on 50 dps

Is 50 more dps

Hyppppeeee

[sacred isle]

And sylv dagger is most likely not an increase at 35% but provavly each 25% 🙂

[balmy condor]

Similar problem with this where poisons don’t do shit

[soft shale]

yea dashing is not gonna change talents

now that we play ds anyway

[modern heart]

i wanna go back to BFA haste stacking garrote

[mental kestrel]

hello sin peeps, do u still open with sbs-snd-mut or do u do what the sim says and mut before snd?

[sacred isle]

Ill rephrase for you whispyr. Nothing we know tells us the dagger will interact differently at 35% health.

[balmy condor]

The sim is showing you an example where the sbs DIDNT crit

You would still sbs snd mut tho

[umbral rapids]

i enjoyed that tbh

[modern heart]

same, i double garrote and go afk

[sick scarab]

some massive Poison Bomb damage dunno LOL

[umbral rapids]

it was also a LOT faster 😅

[balmy condor]

Poison bomb is rng shit and I’m glad it’s shit but the alternative is ct single target and that’s shit too

Just replace pb

Fuck that

[mental kestrel]

regardless of the sbs crit? or does it never change

[balmy condor]

Regardless

Always sbs snd mut

[mental kestrel]

thanks

[sick scarab]

ehehehe agree 🙂

[umbral rapids]

assuming single target do you just sbs when low energy or it hits 5cp?

[balmy condor]

During gemstone

[sick scarab]

but pb crit give good feeling to me LOL

[umbral rapids]

oh that's it

i need to track that

[balmy condor]

Pb does negative damage though

Why does it matter if it crits

[sick scarab]

ehehehhahahaah true true ahah

[modern heart]

[umbral rapids]

surely on fights with slight movement you just play ct right ?

like sire or something

[modern heart]

yes

or.. i do

also for p1.. and p2 adds

[umbral rapids]

bring back exsanguinate

[slender berry]

Sire is not just slight movement tho, it's downtime + movement + adds

[umbral rapids]

yeah i was just assuming that if a boss moves pb is meh

idk i just started looking at sin i'm just trynna get a feel for it :)

[slender berry]

You can sim yourself And if pb and CT are close and you feel Like you loose pb ticks you can switch

[umbral rapids]

[crude stirrup]

Morning everyone, im moving to Assassination for 9.1 (from enhance/ele) would you say Necrolords is a safe pick?

[limber lion]

Yes sir.

[umbral rapids]

You just dump all your charges in that ?

[balmy condor]

Ye

[umbral rapids]

[molten locust]

Whats the safest leggo pick all round for assa for 9.1 in both content ( raid and m+ ) ?

[limber lion]

Zoldyck probably, it's not the greatest for raiding though.

[balmy condor]

Zold/ma

There’s a recommendation somewhere in the pins

[limber lion]

I would just get both Doom/Zold at 190

[molten locust]

Ay, cheers man

[umbral rapids]

@balmy condor don't hate me maybe it's pinned but i can't find it. I'm assuming you ideally try to avoid refreshing bleeds during shiv and vendetta, am I correct ? so like refresh them before then drop shiv and mut/envenom

[molten locust]

Any recommended on which slots, @limber lion ? Doomblade on shoulder and Zold on legs?

[umbral rapids]

doomblade on cloak in 9.1

[molten locust]

Oh

[balmy condor]

Ideally yeah

There’s nothing stopping you from rupturing during shiv

But you shouldn’t make it a habit

[umbral rapids]

yeah just not ideal ok

i'm guessing garrote is fine-ish since it's still a builder

[balmy condor]

Yeah

[umbral rapids]

finishing on rupture sounds wrong though

[balmy condor]

I mean yeah, but it’s better to rupture than let it drop and rupture after

[umbral rapids]

yeah

makes sense

[limber lion]

We do have pins for that.

[plucky sluice]

i dont like it how blizzard is introducing new type of gear with that dom. sockets and now we "need" to throw away the very very expensive shoulders to create the SAME legy again 😦

[gloomy fern]

i would say wait and craf ton cloak

what is pins

[plucky sluice]

i am quite inactive last 2 months, no soulashe to upgrade cloak to lvl 4 xD

[gloomy fern]

infinite soul ash next patch

if u run thorgast enough

[earnest remnant]

literally gonna live in there after doing daily korthia shit

[solid mica]

Is soul ash resetting at all/being scales to make leggos?

[lean coral]

We get more from.firsy run next patch

It's also tradeable between toons once you unlock layer 9 i believe

[floral shoal]

Wasn't soul ash supposed to be more plentyful 9.1 as catchup? Also we can send it from other chars like war resources.

[lean coral]

Yeah you can infinitely farm it

It's less ash after the first run tho

[primal turret]

Would there be any way to catch up renow?

[lean coral]

They said they were making that faster also

I mean there's catch up right now

[errant delta]

whats the new slot for zold and doom?

[limber lion]

[errant delta]

it only says for doom

[limber lion]

Oh I guess Whispyr removed it when he got annoyed by something

But Zoldyck is legs.

[errant delta]

cool ty

[limber lion]

You can already get to 30+ in like a day.

[primal turret]

Yeah i know but i dont have that much time to invest

i can barely play the raid schedule

[shrewd night]

are you implying zoldyck on legs wasnt the play already?

[cloud reef]

is the difference between Venthyr and necro in 9.1 comparable to the difference in dps between the 2 covenants currently?

[limber lion]

Nah, zoldypants are bis in 9.0 and 9.1

We thought Zoldyck boots would pull ahead because KT drops higher ilvl pants

but dom sockets happened

[flat light]

coming back from long break is sin viable now or is it still outlaw/sub?

[limber lion]

Yes, sin is very good.

[flat light]

nice, good to hear

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[dapper flint]

platinum dumb question: so with dom sockets do i gimp myself if i have a leggo in a slot that can be dom'med? Thats why its advised to craft doom on a cloak, because it cant have a dom in it?

[limber lion]

Yes sir, exactly.

[dapper flint]

thanks!

[limber lion]

We want to ultimately get all the possible dom gear as well as the higher ilvl pieces from the last 2 mythic bosses of SoD.

It makes juggling legendaries and such a bit of a hassle.

[primal turret]

If i craft a legendary now will there be useful in 9.1?

[limber lion]

Depends which legendary you're crafting.

Zoldyck is craftable on legs, so that's fine.

Doomblade gets a new slot in 9.1, so it's not advised to craft it now.

[primal turret]

I mean i stoped playing before 9.0.5 so i dont have any assassin legendary

[lean coral]

patch is next week

so you can jsut chill and craft it then

doomblade that is

[primal turret]

Okey

[limber lion]

If you don't have any legendary, then you can get MA

[lean coral]

zoldyck you could make now if you wanted

[limber lion]

And play that everywhere.

[primal turret]

i have MA rank 4

[limber lion]

Well there we go, just run that.

It's a decent choice

[primal turret]

Okey

[lean coral]

i will say the prices of the bases might go up tho next week

[limber lion]

Craft Doomblade next week.

[primal turret]

Got like 4 legos rank 4 but for outlaw/sub

Doomblade, i assume haste/CS

in wich slot?

[lean coral]

cloak in 9.1

[weak hearth]

So... is Necro definitely BiS in 9.1 for Assa? I'd hate to switch covenants. Again.

[lean coral]

looking at pins it kinda depends on what 2 specs you plan on playing

i wanna play sub but i want to actually see how well it does in the raid

before i go back to venthyr

[primal turret]

I assume you can switch the first week of the raid

[manic pebble]

do you put dots on remornia in sire p2?

[primal turret]

with the normal clear you will get a bunch of renow

[lean coral]

yeh

im 40 in both

[limber lion]

It's been the go-to choice for months now.

[lean coral]

so it wont be bad

[primal turret]

im 40 in venthyr and kyrian xd

[limber lion]

But you can honestly play whatever you want.-

[manic pebble]

I wish convenants were just cosmetic only

[rotund arch]

folks, if I'm making one sin leggo to play in raid for next tier, is it doomblade on the cloak?

(currently Outlaw. Just going to sin for single target bosses)

[lean coral]

yeh

[strange python]

i want to go venthyr because of sub 🙂

[rotund arch]

I know that means waiting

[manic pebble]

I put doomblade on my gloves

[rotund arch]

cool, thanks

[lean coral]

gloves are a dom socket piece next patch

so gonna have to make a new one

[primal zodiac]

considering legendary crafting. is it possible to Upgrade r4's to 5 or do we have to wait for rank 6. im not sure i understood the upgrade process 🙃

[manic pebble]

wah

I fucked up ain't I

[strange python]

u can upgrade to 5 week 1 afaik

[primal zodiac]

cause the Item pushes the Base 2 ranks, right

[strange python]

rank 6 would take 4 weeks

[primal zodiac]

i worded very poorly

[limber lion]

Correct.

[lean coral]

time gating 1 rank by a month

oh blizzard

[primal zodiac]

i meant, unless i understood it wrong we need for example a r3 cloak for week 1 rank5

for doomblade in this case

[lean coral]

i mean you can infnitely farm ash next patch so you can make the cloak r4

[primal zodiac]

oh wait i think i found my mistake, i thought from a leatherworking crafter persepective, not a person using the item in the end

or maybe im just an idiot, who knows

[dapper flint]

ye, its sire damage + energy regen

[manic pebble]

thanks! at first I thought it's a waste to put dots on her

[scenic meteor]

is it grim veiled cape i need for doomblade next patch?

[spice spire]

So far, yes

[scenic meteor]

I bought 235 cape for 23k and 235 leggings for 33k

[limber lion]

[sonic schooner]

Cloak r4 is 70k at my hv I just bought all the comp to get a guildies crafting it for me for only 12k

[gusty mirage]

[sonic schooner]

Well when I say guildy, it will actually be my gm

[scenic meteor]

I have no money now lol time to do callings

[spice spire]

The ultimate bad beat

[gusty mirage]

I’d rather just buy a wow token at that point tbh

[spice spire]

Same

[scenic meteor]

Lol I’m a broke student

[grim jay]

280k is reasonable

😄

[gusty mirage]

I’m just glad I made all my gold with m+ carries and the prosperity flask making in bfa

Haven’t had to farm gold since

[spice spire]

I’d rather do irl callings for a token than wow callings. And by that I mean literally anything else lol.
But also yeah if you’re cracked just boost

[grim jay]

got everything with m+ and raid-boosting 😄

[sonic schooner]

Currently down at 25k gold in the bags

[gusty mirage]

Pretty sure my level 48 night elf rogue has more gold than you

[scenic meteor]

I’m at 1k after dropping 55k beteeenthe 235 cloak and legs

But to be fair I’ve only been playing wow a few months

[sonic schooner]

Night elf obviously u are naked at goldshire ans monney is raining on your naked body

Just fact

[gusty mirage]

Absolutely

[sonic schooner]

Spitting the truth

[gusty mirage]

Skills to pay the bills baby

[sonic schooner]

Next season imma be a booster spam

No choice

[scenic meteor]

My guildmate got banned for selling dances for 200k in Goldshire lol

[gusty mirage]

Great way to make gold. I made a few hundred thousand this tier with aotc carries

[sonic schooner]

I did a total of 800+k this season, wasnt enough

Need moaaaar goaaaaald

[gusty mirage]

Yeah I didn’t do very many

I think my cut from the guild carries was like 30k per run? So not terrible

[teal bloom]

I have 16 million gold and need to transfer to another server to join a guild. I am suffering from success, can't take more than 1 mill in gold with me

[sonic schooner]

I'm doing one hour of leather farming a day now, how in need am I looking

😔

Stupid expensive server

[gusty mirage]

That’s the reason I turned down some guilds too many characters and too much gold to bother tbh

[sonic schooner]

With 1600g flask

😔

[shrewd night]

Ill take some off your hands to help you out.

[sonic schooner]

Janiss if u go on a smoll serveur, just buy every fken mats on your current server and sell them on the new one

Free stonks

🤓

[teal bloom]

@shrewd night What a helpful fellow

I am going from small pop to full pop lol

[limber lion]

welp that's a bad transition

[sonic schooner]

[limber lion]

Going from full pop to small pop would have meant even more bank

Could have bought every single legendary base item

and sold them when 9.1 drops

[shrewd night]

Buy every single augment rune, theyll sell like hot bread after patch

[sonic schooner]

I came from a 300g flask to a 1600 one. If only I knew it before I would have robbed my old HV and become the king of the server

[gusty mirage]

Holy shit

[teal bloom]

Yeah idk if I'll even bother to take stuff with me or if i'll continue selling them on small pop. Have to check prices

[sonic schooner]

I think u can check AH prices per serveur on internet

🤔

[teal bloom]

Undermine journal

[gusty mirage]

You can also just make a trial mage and port to a major city and check an AH without having to finish the shit on the boat

[teal bloom]

You can also just make maghar orc and you'll start in orgrimmar

[gusty mirage]

Tru

[sonic schooner]

Need to unlock em tho

🙄

[crude compass]

Hey there fellow stabbers, rolling a rogue for the next tier. Assassination's the way to go for raids?

[manic pebble]

yes

[crude compass]

Alright, thanks.

[limber lion]

Sub looking honestly really strong as well

[sonic schooner]

if we re able to stick to the boss without doing any mecanics at all

sub looks great

🙄

[vestal wren]

all 3 specs look great in different areas of the game

you can pick any of the pairs from the last pin and be competitive

[spice spire]

I agree - all specs are looking pretty viable in some area of content. You love to see it

[vestal wren]

the current dilemma is what pair to pick 😛

[limber lion]

Or just be a true otp and only play one spec regardless

[sonic schooner]

that

[vestal wren]

i guess ill choose that

[tame ravine]

this is the way

[scenic meteor]

Don’t know if you guys know infexious gaming but he says he will keep updating this cheat sheet - good resource

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16OHsHq0RG4cMfiTkGHn4qyMfRZjp2uZN_9_w29bH168/edit#gid=1369962072

[spice spire]

[limber lion]

I would highly not recommend listening to his stuff too much.

[scenic meteor]

Is je bad?

[limber lion]

He's kinda washed up and doesn't really keep stuff updated.

And he feelcrafts a lot of things

[scenic meteor]

Is he lol

[limber lion]

He used to be really active and on top of the game

[winged basin]

monkatrue

[scenic meteor]

Well he said he will update it into 9.1 but I assume your advise is better anyway lol

[limber lion]

If you ever post his video here, I'll assure you that you'll get dumped on by memes, question marks and whatnot.

[winged basin]

There has never been an answer or question this community hasn’t been able to answer

they are great, and it’s always good information. Quick asf too

[scenic meteor]

Is he washed up lol ? I just see his vids on YouTube

[deft obsidian]

I appreciate the work people put into videos and the likes but as said, the community here is all you’ll need for Q&A

[limber lion]

Yes, the videos are not too great.

[vestal wren]

seems to be somewhat up to date from the first look

[limber lion]

He posted an assassination video and the majority of it was false information.

[scenic meteor]

Ah well sorry, thought it might be of use to anyone but not if it is bad

[limber lion]

He posted a m+ video and his rotations were completely off.

[sonic schooner]

ceve > all

yep i said it yep yep

[limber lion]

I'm sure he means well and he could do great, but he doesn't do as much research as the boys in here.

He just comes in here, reads the pins/guides and then slaps those on his videos.

[long furnace]

this guy thicc accents makes me belive him

[limber lion]

He used to be a blade back in the day.

[deft obsidian]

Scottish have that resonating accent alright 😂

[scenic meteor]

Ah well altleast I know now

[long furnace]

watch him on twatch

[scenic meteor]

I’m Scottish lol, my accent is not as thick as his

[long furnace]

you need more whiskey eyyy?

[deft obsidian]

I’m Irish and even I find his is popping thicc 😂

[wary shale]

Why is Doomblade on Cloak the way to go now? It used to be hands for 9.0.5

[scenic meteor]

Pretty sure you need the whiskey from us 🙂

[winged basin]

Domination sockets op

[deft obsidian]

Imagine relying on Scottish whiskey

[scenic meteor]

And you think Irish whiskey is better

[wary shale]

Oh so you craft it on cloak just for the sockets? Makes sense

Haven't really looked into the new Socket System

[deft obsidian]

Yup yup

Well a mix of sockets and higher ilvl items, cloak will make the most sense

[shrewd night]

@limber lion it even has a bis list

[deft obsidian]

BRB, loading up

[shrewd night]

Oh no

Statweights too

[scenic meteor]

How much did you guys spend on the 235 cloak piece

[harsh anchor]

9k

[scenic meteor]

Damn sounds good

[long furnace]

is wellplaced steel conduit better? I have seen most using sudden fractures

and it sounds cooler

[hollow oasis]

my realm has it at 18k but got one at 7k poor guy lucky me

[limber lion]

reddit.com/r/makemesuffer

[long furnace]

31k here ;/

dont worry there wil be a legndary recombobulator

[deft obsidian]

Think it’s super cheap right now, it’s a shock buying cloth items vs leather/plate 😂

[long furnace]

goblins gonna see the money oppurtunity

[scenic meteor]

235 leggings are 35k for me 😭

[late badge]

45k for cloak damn

[grim jay]

@limber lion even back in the day I wasn't too fond of him

there always were better/more experienced players in here willing to help

[spice spire]

Infexious isn't so great? Are you kidding me? When was the last time you saw a theorycrafter with such a dps increase? Infexious puts the game on another level, and we will be blessed if we ever see an ape with this much of a raider IO increase for rogues again. Ravenholdt breaks records. Wowhead breaks records. Infexious breaks the rules. You can keep your statistics. I prefer the magic.

[winged basin]

I got lucky bought 2 cloaks for 10k on zuljin lmao

[astral plover]

Do we have annupdated bis list for 9.1

[winged basin]

No such thing as a bis list if I’m not mistaken

[scenic meteor]

lol ask infexious

[spice spire]

I mean there is - but it’s not constructive. The best way to see a bis list is to sim yourself with your set of gear

[winged basin]

^

[spice spire]

Also aren’t constructive is kind of wrong. It isn’t constructive for 99% of the people in the game. If you’re getting to the point of actually at bis (which I think there are like 4 in here?) they might be helpful, but again they can just sim it out

[amber sun]

is there an info from blizz if we can scrap our old leggys for the soul ash in case we now need it in another slot (eq doomblade)?

[spice spire]

No there’s not

[amber sun]

so we proly will just have to make a new one, sucks for us i guess

[civic trellis]

lies

if i am at 4 cp with qd and deeper do i finish with evenenom or dispatch

[winged basin]

not really, hasn’t been a single question for me they haven’t answered, and I ask A LOT of dumb ones.

[civic trellis]

i am just joking 😄

[slender berry]

envenom or dispatch ? you wanna switch specc mid fight or what

[winged basin]

[civic trellis]

i used to that in duels lol

like looong ago

in wotlk times was really fun to do

[devout temple]

so I'm reading on the rogue forums , rogue has a rough time pugging keys. True/false?

finding groups i mean

[civic trellis]

False

[north pecan]

is this a thing or pipe dream 😄

[limber lion]

Correct.

[devout temple]

or is that just all melee dps

[deft obsidian]

Mostly all melee tbh 😂

[limber lion]

Mostly melee yeh

[civic trellis]

Is not about rogue, is about melees or key/people avalaible

[devout temple]

ok lol

[civic trellis]

rogue has the most prio between melees tho

usually

[limber lion]

Why would you take a rogue from a selection of 20 fire mages, 13 boomies, 17 hunters and 9 elementals

[devout temple]

well at least firemage and boomkin were nerfed ?

[limber lion]

Exactly.

You won't.

[devout temple]

maybe that will help

[limber lion]

In 9.1

Not currently.

[devout temple]

oh right

[deft obsidian]

Outside of SL rogue was nearly always the go to. In SL less so but still bring more than other melees

[limber lion]

WW is probably bought more than a rogue

Outlaw is used for very high keys where you do shroud skips

[deft obsidian]

But then as said, why bring a Melee at all

[limber lion]

but shroud skips are not really that common place for lower key levels nowadays.

As much as they were in BFA or Legion.

Now you just pick the class that deals the most damage

so, not a rogue.

:p

[civic trellis]

Well, rogue and ww are close tho

in dmg terms

[deft obsidian]

Not at all

[cobalt pelican]

i think there's like 1 default shroud skip in all of the pug routes and it's halls to skip 1 pack which you can do without a shroud anyway

[limber lion]

Not really.

[long furnace]

ww does way more dmg than rogue 😄

[deft obsidian]

WW is legit busted in keys

[long furnace]

or its just me ;D

[vestal wren]

9.1 will change m+ quite a bit

its possible that even subtlety gets played

[deft obsidian]

But no pride, means we’ll shine more

As front loaded 70k pulls won’t be a thing

[devout temple]

i never found sub personally. always assasin

*fun

maybe in wotlk with that ttalent wehre u got combo poitns when team mate crit

[vestal wren]

i mean the good thing is you can decide what to play in 9.1

[winged basin]

This isn’t true, with fire nerfs, they will just burst 62 instead of 78k on packs

[final star]

In low keys they pick highest rio

[winged basin]

Still going to be ridiculous

[final star]

In higher keys they pick meta

[deft obsidian]

Less about fire mages, more about pride interaction

[vestal wren]

both sub/sin seem to be close in output and you can decide whatever combination of specs you want to play

assuming you don't want to one trick

[deft obsidian]

From ptr testing I enjoyed sin alot more as shit doesn’t flop over from pride pulls, granted it’s capped at 226 and increased mythic difficulty but pride didn’t really benefit sin for trash versus other classes

As everything melts in 5.6 seconds

[civic trellis]

Well right

[cobalt pelican]

that issue kinda already went away with key level for sin mostly

[civic trellis]

Idk i thought they were close

[cobalt pelican]

outlaw will still likely be the go-to, sub has potential but a few questionmarks but knowing how this has shaken out the other 100 times it'll be 'good but not good enough'

sin is already good..ish

[wispy surge]

How is sanctum of domination looking in terms of melee vs ranged so far?

[cobalt pelican]

but isn't really getting better or worse

[wispy surge]

Because nathria was a bit of a pain

[winged basin]

Sin feels nice to me in keys, I feel like outlaw is just easier to use all of your utility, less pressure cause you aren’t worried about your garrotes

[cobalt pelican]

fine for the most part outside of garbage like fatescribe i think

but it's a ranged favoured world so, 'fine' means '5 melee maybe'

[deft obsidian]

Sin relies playing with a good tank/group coordination really

[long furnace]

the garrote silence is reallly handy in m+

[deft obsidian]

If you have that it’s a fun spec to play over outlaw but reality is if you don’t just go outlaw

[frigid kestrel]

How did you come up with this?

[long furnace]

how much damage is outlaw doing compared to assa in m+?

10% more?

[devout temple]

wait so was bone spike leggo nerfed because of outlaw bladeflurry bullshit?

[willow eagle]

I think the damage output is relatively close between the specs

[long furnace]

ok

[frigid kestrel]

in 9.1 yes, currently not a big gap at all. Its almost similar with Sin coming out on top in a few keys.

[limber lion]

Melee is honestly looking completely fine for SoD.

[deft obsidian]

I picked it out of thin air I didn’t say it was the best spec to go in m+, I said it’s more viable as seen by ryfie with a coordinated group.

[final ferry]

I read the pinned message about legendaries and it doesn't say anything about de venthyr legendary. le cooldown reduction is not worth it?

[willow eagle]

No, it generated insane amounts of combo points

[devout temple]

okay

[frigid kestrel]

You dont need a coordinated group to do good in Sin

[long furnace]

I was so waiting for my broken outlaw legendary :(((

[frigid kestrel]

You just have to work harder to get similar numbers that OL gets

[deft obsidian]

There is a difference of “doing good” versus spec potential

If the tank chain pulls during a shit affix week, god speed

[frigid kestrel]

There is nothing that slows down the damage of a Sin rogue other then packs taking longer to die

[deft obsidian]

And no restealths 👀

[frigid kestrel]

That legit affects every class tho

[frigid kestrel]

Thats not a big deal at all TBH

[civic trellis]

Uhm how does it work sin in m+, just curious

[limber lion]

Too many people have this prenotion that melee is like the worst shit in the world and you can't possibly play a melee class in mythic raiding

[civic trellis]

garrote/rupture spread with that bottom talent?

[limber lion]

but it honestly does not matter that much.

usually ranged classes are just balanced better and have better tools for stuff

[frigid kestrel]

Spread Bleeds

[civic trellis]

do you use fok at all?

[frigid kestrel]

To Generate CP ye

[civic trellis]

seems fun

[deft obsidian]

So if 2 rogues did a 15 key, one group having appropriate restealths vs the other not. Do you think there wouldn’t be a significant damage difference?

And this is obviously going on the assumption you’re playing subterfuge

[frigid kestrel]

The time it takes for a tank to wait and let you restealth isnt worth the DPS gain from a single class

You restealth when it naturally happens

Most of your damage comes from CT

[deft obsidian]

Not entirely accurate but sure

[devout temple]

ya no more shrouded suffocation

[final star]

I mean it is accurate

[deft obsidian]

You don’t need to slow a group to get restealth

My point is chain pulling or random pulling via ninja pug tendencies

[limber lion]

Restealths for sin are not as giga as you'd think.

[final star]

It really only matters if you're running MA/NS cos not having that NS CT on pull kinda smelly

[frigid kestrel]

It is %100 accurate

[deft obsidian]

Is pretty pepega

[final star]

And even then

It's such a small loss

[frigid kestrel]

If your expecting a tank to let you restealth you are doing it wrong

[final star]

That it's not as impactful as you'd think

[limber lion]

Pulling 2 packs at once is always better than pulling 1 pack and chainpulling the second pack after.

That's on the tank if stuff like that happens.

[deft obsidian]

It’s kinda what I’m getting at, regardless I don’t pug keys

[mellow pier]

Chainpulling is usually bad play

[limber lion]

But there are ways to get restealths in, even if the tank chainpulls.

[deft obsidian]

So I don’t have this issue but

[mellow pier]

It’s done in groups like cev said

[frigid kestrel]

I PUG keys all the time and never have an issue

[deft obsidian]

Hence my original point of coordinating

Rather than pepega pulling

[frigid kestrel]

i get comparable DPS to what my Push group does

[final star]

I've pugged like 80% of my keys and not had much of an issue

[plain thistle]

but thats not coordination, if your tank have a sin rogue in his party and he chain pull when the last mob has 5% he is just bad

[deft obsidian]

Again, doing well versus spec potential. Which was outlined most classes have issues with

[frigid kestrel]

This coordination argument is similar to the Scaling argument. It is the same with every single class in game.

[limber lion]

You can just walk out of the group if you notice your tank moving towards another pack to chainpull

[frigid kestrel]

^

[limber lion]

So when the previous pack dies, you'll be put out of combat and you can restealth

[frigid kestrel]

^

[limber lion]

even if your entire group is in combat themselves.

[deft obsidian]

Outlined earlier also 😂

I didn’t say an impossibility.

[winged basin]

Shadowstep op

[frigid kestrel]

You specifically said that sin relies on playing with a good tank/group to play

And im telling you it doesnt

#assassination message

All im saying is that statement is misleading

[limber lion]

I did a +15 key the other day with a dk that had never done anything higher than a +11

He only pulled small packs all the time, didn't have a good route and was just very meh

But we got a +2 on it.

Just because a tank is bad, doesn't mean that the run is doomed as a sin rogue.

[frigid kestrel]

Also, this comes straight from Ryfies Guide to Sin in M+

[deft obsidian]

I guess I’m not inferring directly just to dps, as you know. M+ control is relevant

[frigid kestrel]

If you dont believe me, you have to believe him

[deft obsidian]

Well not it’s a matter of opinion, of what the spec brings to the group. I didn’t say you need to restealth each pack. I made a comment of no aka zero restealths

The strength of sin in higher keys is having triple silence pulls in say SD etc

Just cause I said that doesn’t mean I presume you aren’t viable to be brought to an M+ not which isn’t specific to any key unless you’re pushing like 22-25 plus

You could bring a healer as dps to a 15

[little sky]

hello 🙂 since 9.1 is near, is something really changed from current setup for raids? or it's basically just the same.

[limber lion]

[frigid kestrel]

Ye but in no world do/will you ever see zero stealth.
Triple Garrote isnt the greatest strength, most PUG's don't even notice it
You can legit play almost any class up to a 22 and be solid

[limber lion]

We're still in the process of simming stuff for 9.1

[little sky]

i imagined, but htough checking pins and asking would have helped.

[deft obsidian]

Which I agreed upon, i'm more inferring push keys not weeklys which I basically boost a guildy on their 200 alt each week

[limber lion]

Not really.

"I wonder which dps to bring for this dungeon"

"Sin, because it has a triple silence"

[hazy crater]

said no one ever

[bleak sky]

Good morning fellow stabbers

[deft obsidian]

No but you'll find most rogues pushing, I'm talking in a perspective of actual high keys not weekly, as if any class is looked upon for their merits. "Queues key - searches for mage/druid/x class and profit"

[limber lion]

Me too

And the reason you bring a sin rogue to a high key

isn't because of triple silence

[frigid kestrel]

High keys is subjective, what key levels you talking?

[little sky]

i really don't want to swap to necro though, but it seems it's going to be the ay to go especially since i play assa for raids and outlaw for m+

[deft obsidian]

I said as a strength merely of the class which goes back to spec potential, not just bringing any dps

[limber lion]

Let me tell you

that the biggest merit a class brings to m+

Is high dps.

The reason you don't see Survival hunters pushing high keys

is not because they don't have any good "merits"

it's because they don't do competitive damage.

[bleak sky]

I was against swapping to necro, but god DAMN, it just feels so fun to play. You get a great filler ability which is also a huge builder.

If you're not planning on playing sub rogue, I highly recommend swapping to necro.

[little sky]

i really dislike the fact that i have invested months in a covenant just to throw everything away like this.

ill think about it. it feels to me just like "hey, we cahnaged some numbers so you'll have to redo stuff you've already seen. prepare also for 9.2"

[cobalt pelican]

yes and no kinda, moonkin is pretty much exclusively brought for util and how frontloaded their st damage profile is (which can be seen as util anyway) but that's about as far out of an example as you'll get, and it's not like moonkin damage is bad

but i think we unironically live in a world where if overall dps was the pure defining factor you'd just play mage mage shaman or shaman shaman mage and desync everything

[limber lion]

Yeah, if there is a class that does good damage but has no utility, and a class that has good damage AND utility, of course you bring the one that has both.

But purely having crazy utility will not ensure you a spot in a group.

You're still fighting against a timer

[bleak sky]

If you don't want to minmax, you don't have to. Unless you're pushing for world first/hall of fame, just play what you want :D

[odd heath]

Like, you didn't see many ele shamans on 9.0, great util, low dmg.. 9.0.5, after some dmg buffs, they are everywhere lol

[deft obsidian]

I mentioned spec potential which doesn't solely point the finger at utility or dps but rather a combined but either way i'm outtie. This back/forth is losing relevance by the second 🙂