assassination

[limber lion]

Wait for sims

[pallid hollow]

My rogue is only 209 anyway as I’m swapping from my 225 pala xD

[limber swallow]

it's a smart idea.. the cloaks were all like 6k yesterday and 24k today.. wrists jumped to 80k from 13..

[pallid hollow]

So it’s all up in the air for me haha

[keen swallow]

eh 30k for legs

[gusty mirage]

wait did I just get fleeced on a 23k cloak?

[scenic meteor]

I’m away for 10 days at 9.1 release so I’ll come back and assume you guys have all worked it out haha for leggos

[gusty mirage]

wait I did

[limber swallow]

LOL. yea, probably. I was like "meh, I'll wait until tomorrow"

[gusty mirage]

I remember buying it for my pally for like 11k the other day

I got got

[limber swallow]

it's ok.. when I crafted legs, I accidentally bought 2... and that was like when they were 150k...

[limber lion]

Perfect.

Pins is the place to start

[glass dust]

Necrolord is always better than NF in ST right ?

[limber lion]

If there are no.sims in the pins, they are not ready.

[limber lion]

Yes

[gusty mirage]

I bought a 235 chest in January when I thought I'd still be playing sub

[glass dust]

👌

[limber swallow]

lol. Yep.. have 235 finality and 235 celerity 😉

[winged basin]

So I know we had a big talk about it yesterday, but bonespikes get saved for gemstone procs right?

and in the opener

[sonic schooner]

i ve 235 celerity akari finality doomblade ma and 225 zoldyks deathlyshadow

too much gold spent

😔

while boomies crafted only one leg

[scenic meteor]

I have 225 doomblade on gloves and 225 zoldycks on boots

[tulip nacelle]

pain

[sonic schooner]

and now for outlaw i should craft guile and the other pistol leg, i m just done

[gusty mirage]

225 deathly?

[sonic schooner]

OL is like changing leggo every 2 weeks

[gusty mirage]

you bought into the voodoo

[sonic schooner]

i wanna try dashing for sin

looks fun

[limber swallow]

I just want deathspike.. and we have to get to 48 renown for that....

[sonic schooner]

isnt the deathspike leggo nerfed to the ground?

🤔

[gusty mirage]

for outlaw kind of

should still be good for assa

[limber swallow]

it got nerfed, but it's still good

[gusty mirage]

more cheap CP makes assa flow like a river

[soft shale]

yea im also going to be a bad person and resell a lot of rank4 cloaks so if you're on draenor

hit me up i can hook you with some

[pallid hollow]

How much!!

[sacred isle]

Guile nerfed 🙂

[gusty mirage]

they fixed guile?

[sacred isle]

Nope. They buffed it. But the buff makes the bugg worse

[gusty mirage]

perfect

[sacred isle]

All according to plan 🙂

[humble ginkgo]

how do I sim 2t?

oh nvm

[limber lion]

You just select 2 targets in raidbots :D

You got it nice

[humble ginkgo]

ye I didnt see that option at the bottom

[limber lion]

All gucci my man

[humble ginkgo]

would it be better to just run quick sim?

[tulip nacelle]

depends on what you're simming for

[humble ginkgo]

I see people comparing outlaw and sin in the same sim

idk how to do that

ig im just gonna run 2 diff sims

I didnt know assa was that good on 2t

jesus christ

1k above outlaw in this sim

[limber lion]

That's advanced

Yeh, cleave is sin's forte

[sacred isle]

Sin is beast on 2t

[limber lion]

Not only is it insane

It's so much fun as well

[sacred isle]

3 up and the law takes point 🙂

[limber lion]

I'd argue that sin 2t is the most enjoyable content out of the specs

[humble ginkgo]

I like it

Ive been hitting target dummy for like 10 hours now

[scenic meteor]

True sin two and three target is very fun

[humble ginkgo]

[limber lion]

Hah

Practice makes poggers.

[humble ginkgo]

but it all comes down to how well I can see the time of the bleed on 2nd target in raid

bc its pretty easy to see it on a nonmoving dummy

I feel like in raid im gonna be tunneling too much

[simple wadi]

Thinking ahead on your garrote usage is huuuuge

Lots of cases where cd and pandemic can get hairy

[sand plume]

Home. Making the swap to necroboi.

[limber lion]

Yeah, garrote usage can be funky sometimes especially with dying targets, like on Huntsman

[limber lion]

Welcome home.

[simple wadi]

When I look at logs - managing garrote in multi targets is what really separates people

[sand plume]

ty ty

[limber lion]

One of many things for sure!

[simple wadi]

I love how you can really find angles to maximize what on the surface is a simple spec

[humble ginkgo]

I hate if both garrote's are like

3 seconds apart

and its on cd and one of them drops

like

[limber lion]

Yepppp

[sand plume]

is the ilvl of world quest items based off renown?

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[gusty mirage]

yeah

[sand plume]

ah alright. doesn't look like I need to care about those though until well placed steel comes in rotation (if it ever does(

[gusty mirage]

renown 29 unlocks 194 gear from WQs and 203 from callings? I think

[sand plume]

looks like that comes from de other side anyway

[gusty mirage]

you can just get your conduits from callings chests

[sand plume]

oh ok cool

[gusty mirage]

I wouldn't bother farming a dungeon for it

[sand plume]

was about to ask. forgot how getting a high ilvl one worked.

[gusty mirage]

just do your callings every day and you'll eventually get em all

do any conduit WQs

and you'll be good to go by 9.1

[sand plume]

I mean the only one that really matters is WPS right? seems to be the only potency we use

but maybe that changes in 9.1?

I also have a bunch from playing my rogue a ton beginning of expac

[gusty mirage]

what cov are you?

[sand plume]

swapped to necrpo

necro*

[gusty mirage]

you'll want to play sudden fractures then

[sand plume]

oh I guess IV guide is wrong then

[gusty mirage]

yeah its a little out of date

[sand plume]

gotcha

[gusty mirage]

if you're necro or venthyr you wanna play the covenant ability conduits

[sand plume]

in that case, I have a sudden fractures wq right now.. but 184

up for 1 day 21 hrs... wonder if I could get 29 renown by then and it upgrades?

[gusty mirage]

I'd just run normal & heroic castle

it drops off sire too

[sand plume]

oh yea

look at that

[gusty mirage]

200/213, skip some ranks 🙂

[sand plume]

smart

[violet hemlock]

What are some of sins best trinkets? Or can I just use my dreadfire + phial like I do for outlaw?

[limber lion]

233 DFV and 226 Phial are the best choices for non-Venthyr's

For Venthyr you'd want an IQD

[violet hemlock]

Just trynda do some prep for next tier

kk

[limber lion]

You can sim em with raidbots to see how they perform

A lot of trinkets are doing pretty similarly in output honestly

[violet hemlock]

I have a 220 DFV and a 220 Phial

[limber lion]

Mythic Chain/Memory might sim better than the DFV

You should sim them in top gear and see how they perform

But 220 DFV and Phial is a good combo

[violet hemlock]

Sadly stopped raiding a month ago so I probs wonbt be getting any more mythic drops... I passed on memory last time as I didnt like it for outlaw.

[limber lion]

Fair enough

Trinkets will only ever get you so far, I wouldn't fret about them too much

They get oudated quite quickly with all the new dungeon/raid trinkets and higher ilvl items

[violet hemlock]

Was mainly asking if any dungeon trinkets sims are desceptive

cause rn sims say IQD 220 is better than DFV

As necro

[limber lion]

Yeah probably

IQD is a bit worse to play though

But it's great for m+

IQD is def the better choice for Venthyr though

I mean, get the IQD and see how you like it

[sand plume]

I can do lfr/normal/heroic to get renown from bosses right? doesn't cap with 1 difficulty?

[violet hemlock]

Does IQD hit ur highest stat?

ye Mord

[sand plume]

cool ty

[limber lion]

Only during lust

It's 50/50 your highest and second highest outside of lust

[violet hemlock]

ooh

aah

that would bhe crit or vers...

which vers wouldnt be great

[limber lion]

Ye, make sure to do all of them before campaign/weeklies

[limber lion]

Crit/haste should def be the top ones

[violet hemlock]

Respeccing from outlaw working with the gear I got

[limber lion]

Yeh

Bit by bit :p

[sand plume]

oh really? ok. was just doing callings and then was gonna do the campaign, but I guess I'll do the raids first

[violet hemlock]

they are all pretty close tho 609crit/560vers/469Haste

[vital haven]

@sand plume https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EyKThZsXEAYDPTu?format=jpg&name=small

[limber lion]

Big disagree

Do not do this.

[shy dust]

Just do up to whatever soulbind you need - campaign renown

[vital haven]

oh really

[shy dust]

Then just do campaign

[limber lion]

Yes

[shy dust]

To finish it out

It’s not hard

[limber lion]

Yeh exactly

[vestal wren]

is the mega dungeon out with 9.1 release?

[violet hemlock]

But I needa be 40 by launch

[vital haven]

ye

[vestal wren]

if so its a good way to get gear

[limber lion]

Yes it is

[shy dust]

You can hit 40 by launch

[vital haven]

you get 233 from the hard modes now

[shy dust]

You get two renown weekly

[limber lion]

Just do raid on all difficulties

Why would you only do lfr skip

Raids has the highest drop rate for renown as far as we know

So you should do em on all difficulties

[violet hemlock]

Im up to 26 Im not really sweating

[limber lion]

Not spamming m+ which takes ages

[limber lion]

Easy peasy!

[balmy condor]

[fleet anchor]

Assuming HMs are enabled initially anyway. I don't know if we know many official details about it yet.

[limber lion]

Yuuuuuup

[violet hemlock]

Is valor getting reset?

do we know

[limber lion]

Yes

[violet hemlock]

time to spend it all

[limber lion]

Buy out the valor store before 9.1

The consumable one

[fleet anchor]

Dungeon is basically gonna be a decent time-waster in the first week I guess when you are done with Maw/Torghast grind

[limber lion]

Or rather the material one

[fleet anchor]

Maybe first two weeks

[limber lion]

Definitely.

[fleet anchor]

But tbh Heroic and M+ ilevel once things unlock make even the HM drops kinda pointless

[balmy condor]

9.1 mostly implemented, that’s why I can’t sim sanctum gear, most trinkets, domination sockets

[limber lion]

[fleet anchor]

233 gear is decent right now but like

It's basically M+12 spam gear ilevel and worst than Heroic raid gear

Even Rival gear is 240 so

Probably better off spamming PvP tbh

Challenger gear is 233 and pretty much everyone can get that with minimal effort

[violet hemlock]

isnt pvp gear gonna get the downgrade to it?

[fleet anchor]

That's base ilevel

In PvP it's +13

[vestal wren]

domination sockets arn't even that interesting

[limber lion]

Wtf

[vestal wren]

iirc mystler mentioned that they are unique

so you cant put in the same twice

[limber lion]

But they literally change how we gear

[gusty mirage]

I mean they're kind of interesting enough to change where you craft your legendary

[vestal wren]

what means you just pick all dps ones and fill up for the best 3 bonus

[limber lion]

And which legendaries and on which slots we use

We don't even know if you can stack multiple dps gems of different ranks

Like you can on the ptr currently

[fleet anchor]

PvP Duelist    Baseline    246
PvP Duelist    In PvP    259

[sonic schooner]

At the end of the day we just gonna use the same because they are all unbalanced as heck 😔

[balmy condor]

Super not interesting

Only shifts the balance of like half your gear

[limber lion]

WTB boost to 2100

[fleet anchor]

Also Whispyr you can sim all the trinkets just fine

[dawn ivy]

i like dom sockets

[fleet anchor]

Here let me run a sim for you

Ok done

Phial good

[sonic schooner]

Let's double rogue ceve 😏

[limber lion]

Woah

[fleet anchor]

Get ready to farm Phial like 5 times by the end of this xpac

[balmy condor]

Fuck

[fleet anchor]

🤣

[balmy condor]

Koji is so good

[limber lion]

Didn't get 233 weapon

Didn't get 226 phial

[vital haven]

man i cant wait to go to plaguefall again

[limber lion]

Maybe 9.1 is my patch

[fleet anchor]

Phial+Totem probably BiS forever lol

[balmy condor]

Me and the boys at 2am looking for phial

[vital haven]

lmao

[hollow escarp]

just minmax and get it from great vault

[sonic schooner]

220 daggers and phial gang

[bleak sky]

220 phial and iqd gang

[vestal wren]

they can pull a EP on trinkets

and just buff the shit out of all raid trinkets

[fleet anchor]

I mostly just assume raid trinkets are gonna be garbo for melee by default and if they are good it's a pleasant surprise

[vital haven]

people still using coral+font on mythic nzoth

good times

[sonic schooner]

Shriekwing trinket tp you randomly on a cleave

[limber lion]

"PLAGUEFALL-THON. EVERY SUB = 1 RUN OF PF | REDDIT RECAP LATER?"

[fleet anchor]

Like using BfA as an example, was really only EP that had decent trinkets. Like all 3 other raid tier trinkets were worse than dungeon trinkets

[limber lion]

Coral

Font

[vestal wren]

EP had good trinkets after they buffed them

[vital haven]

true

what was the trinket that stacked and then did a bunch of damage at execute

it was on ep as well

[fleet anchor]

I really liked Coral, Font can diaf though

[limber lion]

Inkpod

@humble ginkgo

[fleet anchor]

Inkpod was good yeah

[limber lion]

Swtf

[vital haven]

i liked inkpod

[limber lion]

@vital haven

[fleet anchor]

Coral+Inkpod was nice but Inkpod didn't scale as well into next tier since it wasn't stat-based

[limber lion]

Inkpod was a fun passive one

Most passive ones are very boring.

[vestal wren]

flag could have been coral

[limber lion]

Yeh, it's similar

Kingsbane-esque

[vestal wren]

it was similar, but they did forget to add the qol changes and put it on a stat that's not as powerful

[hollow escarp]

had some fun leveling this week, got into 3 man premades that were farming plaguefall and pretty much got boosted a few levels for free

that's for renown farming

[vital haven]

at least we can upgrade it with valor right from the start

[fleet anchor]

Well Valor cap means we can't do it until week 2 or 3, depending on what they do

[vital haven]

hmm right

[fleet anchor]

But yeah

[hollow escarp]

you'll still inhale some copium 1 month hoping for a max ilvl version to drop in GV

[fleet anchor]

It's funny Blizzard hasn't really clarified how the M+ season launch is actually going to work

[tulip nacelle]

[fleet anchor]

afaik

e.g. what weeks things go active, when Valor cap ramps, when the ilevel unlocks, etc.

[sick scarab]

i am saaad LOLOLOL

[fleet anchor]

Good thing the patch is going live in a week or so

🤣

[vestal wren]

iirc you just lose all your valor

[sick scarab]

no fae love in patch ffs

[hollow escarp]

make sure to buy that heavy callous hide with the valor remaining next week

[fleet anchor]

Well Fae is getting a bit of love with the Dreamweaver changes but it'll still be behind

[red plaza]

Yeah on the latest ptr when you copy over your valor is gone now

Probably gonna be converted to gold

[vestal wren]

fae just has a terrible legendary

[violet hemlock]

@limber lion after upgrading a bunch of stuff in my bags there are no more 220 upgs from dungeons on my sim... Guess I call it till next tier.

[vestal wren]

besides being slightly behind by default

[violet hemlock]

got haste to be highest stat too!

[fresh heron]

Am I missing something, the Pin says to craft doomblade on cloak and thats not an option.

[limber lion]

Not yet

It will be in 9.1

[fresh heron]

Oh, roger that, thanks.

[limber lion]

:')

[limber lion]

Nice!

[sick scarab]

i hope in some conduit buff LOL

[violet hemlock]

Basically was able to move 300 vers into haste

[hollow escarp]

just buy the crafting mats with valor because that will be worth it more than the silver you get for valor at the end of the season

[fleet anchor]

Best I can give you is 1 copper

[red plaza]

True

[hollow escarp]

1 copper per valor

[red plaza]

There’s no new potions or flasks it looks like right?

[hollow escarp]

no

there are some new stones I think

and legendary ranks ofc

[vital haven]

new consumables are prob gonna happen in 9.2

like in bfa i'd reckon

[limber lion]

We're getting empowered conduits

Soo maybe that's the buff you're looking for :''')

[north basin]

if we buy something for valor before patch and then refund back to vendor we get valor back?

[hollow escarp]

I would test that

[limber lion]

Doubt we can refu d

Maintenance probably gimps that

[hollow escarp]

no, you can't because the 2 hours pass during offline time now

[limber lion]

Yeh

[hollow escarp]

if there was an item

and I wouldn't mess with exploits that give player power currency like that

[north basin]

we need to exploit something!

[hollow escarp]

remember the azerite wq farm bans?

[north basin]

xD

[violet hemlock]

!oils

what!

[hollow escarp]

also, they're not really consistent on what's a bannable exploit or not

[limber lion]

!oil

[prisma monolith]

Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ

[limber lion]

;)

[bleak sky]

you can sell valor for currency? wut

[hollow escarp]

vendor near GV yes

gives 10 of heavy callous hide, lightless silk and something else

I think elethium

https://www.wowhead.com/currency=1191/valor#items

[north basin]

blizz gona nerf 200% potion/swap duration thingy in patch for venthyrs?

[hollow escarp]

I've been valor capped for weeks

[azure bronze]

yes

[balmy condor]

They already did that

[limber lion]

It has been nerfed already.

[balmy condor]

Like 2 weeks ago

[north basin]

oh

[limber lion]

My man's been on a vacation or something.

[north basin]

did a break from a game

[limber lion]

Welcome back

[north basin]

back to necro. or welcome to necro i would say xD

now it became like mainstream opinion here

[limber lion]

Definitely.

Necro is bae

[whole bluff]

You're 10 days early, Rey xd

[limber lion]

More like

2 months late

:')

If you're talking about the necro swap

Probably talking about coming back

But I'm just a pepega

[balmy condor]

Yeah necro has been really good for a while now

[whole bluff]

I'm talking about 9.1

[hollow escarp]

can you stack Prove your worth quests?

[north basin]

accumulating power before patch is a must

[hollow escarp]

to have all 3 done?

[limber lion]

No clue honestly

[peak bobcat]

no you can't

[limber lion]

Let me know if you figure it out :')

Ah rip

[hollow escarp]

I know you can do it for one

like having it ready whenever

[peak bobcat]

Just for one ^

[hollow escarp]

guess it's safe to have the venthyr one ready

just in case

[north basin]

not much solo bosses on mythic i heard.

[vestal wren]

it rly comes down to 2 things.
#1 were you want the rogue to do damage
#2 how well the venthyr damage profile works with raid mechanics

[waxen harbor]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[hollow escarp]

yep, if you need boss damage even though there are ads around, pure ST might be the way. Council for example

but even there you can use SBS as mfd to funnel finishers into boss

[north basin]

probably well rounded option will be better for all. like necro =

[red plaza]

Didn’t fleshcraft get buffed too?

[hollow escarp]

it did

[vestal wren]

its nice if you do good cleave, but thats only relevant if you actually need to do cleave

necrolord is the default choice because its versatile in use

but this does not mean its nessecery the best choice

[north basin]

aside world firsts, people would prefer doing more overall than 150 dps more in ST on 1-2 fights from 10 )

[vestal wren]

there is a general conception that it is however

[north basin]

need to see how much vent ahead in 5min st fight. looking forward for it XD

[vestal wren]

i think you overestimate relevant aoe or cleave is in raids usually

e.g.

you can do more damage on aoe, but if your role is not aoe but either bursting down a add or doing st

why would it benefit you to invest into something that does not work well on those metrics

[north basin]

its down to what guild really capable. denatrius fight good example.

[vestal wren]

necrolord is buggy on denathrius

so idk if its a good example

sludge is a good example

you need focused burst and st

[north basin]

in terms of aoe vs solo vs which strong sides guild have. some lack aoe some lack burst etc.

[vestal wren]

we move to much into a direction that purposefully creates a scenario where padding is the best option

[limber lion]

Sludge is a bad example tbh as well

There is no pad to be had there

[vestal wren]

if you think about adding a rogue to your raid group you rarely do so for cleave or aoe

[limber lion]

If you want to maximize damage output, you need to maximize pillar windows

Which is also the optimal way to play the fight.

[vestal wren]

sludge is a bad example of padding

[limber lion]

Or did I understand something wrong?

[vestal wren]

but a good example where burst and single target damage count

[north basin]

sometimes people have no other class availible for raid slot xD so they take 2 rogues

[limber lion]

Ah right

I gotchu

[cedar star]

Which slots are we crafting on again in 9.1? Cloak and????

[limber lion]

SKS is a good example of non-pad and high burst/st

You need to destroy the shield asap

And add damage is pretty irrelevant

[limber lion]

Cloak for Doomblade

Lega for Zoldyck, currently at least

[vestal wren]

btw. i totally agree that it depends on your raid team

as it always do just like in 9.0.5 or 9.0

[cedar star]

Have we decided if we are making the swap to DS yet?

[vestal wren]

but the discussion we are avoiding to have is the usual role of a rogue in the raid

and aoe/cleave/spread cleave is usually not a reason to bring rogue

[limber lion]

Not yet

[vestal wren]

but rather another lock/boomie

[limber lion]

Sims are not complete

[shy dust]

I do agree people be going wild with how much they think of necro

[cedar star]

Cool, I just wanted to buy r4 crafting pieces before the prices exploded in a week

[limber lion]

The discussion should be "which melee to bring" tbh.

[vestal wren]

i absolutely don't want to say picking necro is wrong

[limber lion]

Because we still need melee

[shy dust]

I dont think its wrong

[limber lion]

Idk Necro is cracked

[shy dust]

but its definitely got some exaggerated hype behind it

[limber lion]

Venthyr is cracked as well for what it's used for

[vestal wren]

but i am also not a fan of saiyng necro is always the best choice

what is sadly the default recently

[cedar star]

The hype wasn’t really exaggerated when the lego was at 2 additional targets

[vestal wren]

i am for letting people decide what they need/want

[limber lion]

We're talking generally, not just in m+ setting

Doubt Desthspike would have seen much play in raids

[north basin]

top guilds probably wont take rogues again, but midrange 500-1000 guilds will. and good overall dps cov rogue will take the slot and not the best ST dps rogue.

[limber lion]

Wrong

[cedar star]

That would have been insane in raid too

[limber lion]

No it wouldn't have

There's not many giga-aoe fights

Only on Outlaw it was absolutely cracked

[north basin]

but if u add 1-2 adds which needs to die. u take necro no?XD

[limber lion]

Yes

Even if they didn't need to die

But he's talking about using the legendary

Which we wouldn't use anyways

Well, who knows what might have happened

It's nerfed now so whatever :p

[north basin]

my point is what overall dps cov win raid slot in average guilds, even if venthyr better for some tasks. coz its hard to explain to raidleaders why u do good job by doing less overall dps =)

and overall dps cov is necro

and i was replying to fuu about rogue role in raid )

[cedar star]

It’s going to be interesting to see how the aoe in the new raid works out

I’m anticipating a lot of Pad aoe on certain fights

[limber lion]

Yeh but usually dps have different assignments

Like blasting named adds on Sire

[cedar star]

I’m aware

[limber lion]

Even if you do less overall dps, if you blast the adda like assigned, that's your job done. You don't need high overall to prove your worth

Or ahouldn't need to.

[cedar star]

I mean ass is an absolutely god class on Sire, p1 is basically pad

[limber lion]

That was in reference to @north basin

:p

[cedar star]

Ah

[limber lion]

But yeh, usually stuff like this comes up later in the tier

People are ethical gamers the first few weeks

Then it goes downhill

[north basin]

very few people can understand logs, not in a way this yellow line in log shorter than blue/purple line!! )

[cedar star]

My favorite is people causing wipes on SLG by padding the meters

It’s great

[limber lion]

Raid leaders definitely should

Who cares if the normal raiders don't

But that's kind of the rl's role.

[north basin]

tensions xD

[balmy condor]

To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to see that your shiv casts are more than 25 seconds apart

[north basin]

i often hear - hey why he is not doing dps like A B or C, not in my direction but anyway its common

[limber lion]

Definitely, that's why you can rely on us 280 IQ champions in RH to review your logs when in need.

[north basin]

xDD

[spice spire]

Only GIGA brained gamers understand, yes, of course

[north basin]

what to do if ur overall iq 50 points higher than ur average raid team mate?XD

worth explaining them indepths of rogues or nah

!!

[spice spire]

U flame the shit out of that toaster

[north basin]

xD

[spice spire]

Just kidding - nah it’s never worth

[thorny pond]

If you aren’t toxic to everyone else on your team are you even bringing any utility?

Healers need to heal you for mechanics that you should avoid. Tanks need to position better and other dps need to let you pad so you can shit talk them later

[spice spire]

@gusty mirage

[north basin]

some people look at logs and see blindside on 90% of logs and u pick elaborate planing. and they say wtf why u pick it if others dont. very common encounter

[thorny pond]

If you take EP you can replace your ambush bind with another shiv bind to slam it harder

[gloomy knoll]

if you take deathspike into a raid

as a sin rogue

you're actually trolling

0% ST gain on a ST spec

[balmy condor]

I just wanna be an outlaw rogue man

[gloomy knoll]

no you don't

blizzard doesn't like pirates lol

[balmy condor]

You right

[gloomy knoll]

blizzard like dagger bois

[thorny pond]

Is outlaw did ST damage that sin did then yea

[north basin]

outlaw its teenagers spec, grown people cant smash buttons that fast

[hollow escarp]

that's why you can only trade daggers with rogues, while on handers can be traded by any agility class 🙂

[vital haven]

can outlaw rogues use daggers plz

[thorny pond]

Off hand

[vital haven]

why do i have to get 3 weaps man

[balmy condor]

Outlaw should get a buff, and then shave off some % from flurry if it’s too overbearing

[thorny pond]

Flurry is a great mechanic

[balmy condor]

Not even an opinion

Just a fact

Buff outlaw

[thorny pond]

I love hitting one button and doing ape

[soft shale]

just make trinkets flurry again kek what could go wrong

[spice spire]

Guy is that you?

I had to triple check

[balmy condor]

Weebspyr in the flesh

[gusty mirage]

what'd I do now?

[balmy condor]

Buff outlaw

[spice spire]

See above the ping

[gusty mirage]

I'm not toxic

I'm just misunderstood

[cedar star]

Outlaw melee range gets actually addicting

[spice spire]

Sorry papi

[thorny pond]

Same

[gusty mirage]

[spice spire]

[balmy condor]

I still won’t play it

The spec is garbage

But they deserve it

[cedar star]

Guessing you don’t like Fury either?

[spice spire]

[balmy condor]

Fury is okay

My warrior is fury

[cedar star]

They play very similar

[balmy condor]

I kinda disagree

[thorny pond]

Fury is engaging

Outlaw is not

[balmy condor]

Rampage is a button that feels good

[hollow escarp]

enraging as well

[soft shale]

ancient shock is so nutty too

[balmy condor]

And enrage is good

[soft shale]

when you see them get knockback

[balmy condor]

And outlaw has idk, bone rolling

[soft shale]

[balmy condor]

And dispatch

Very fun

[thorny pond]

Fury is honestly a well built spec that moves fast with high priority moves to make the spec feel engaging

[cedar star]

Fury is probably my favorite melee spec

[soft shale]

also you can go necro to simp your ranged

[cedar star]

Followed by enhance

[soft shale]

rogue can vanish from raid

[thorny pond]

Bones and Blade Flurry are not engaging

[soft shale]

i like feral a lot

[wanton cobalt]

New guild wanting me on rogue over warrior but the more I play warrior the less I want to play my rogue. Oof

[thorny pond]

Then play warrior

[soft shale]

necro druid is so cool

playing the moonfire dot shit

[bleak sky]

havoc: fun; outlaw: meh; sin: FUN; fury:too fast for me

[spice spire]

Man of culture, I too enjoy not eviscerate ™️

[hollow escarp]

fury is fun in m+, wish it had tricks

[bleak sky]

yeah dying to ripping aggro is not fun

[scenic meteor]

Fury doesn't hit good

[spice spire]

You and I both. I say as a paladin

[bleak sky]

same thing with dh, you can't just dash+eye beam because you die kekw

[scenic meteor]

It's fun but fury ST is sad

[hollow escarp]

I like simple specs

[balmy condor]

I like you

[soft shale]

i too choose that man's wife

[thorny pond]

Damn

[gusty mirage]

how much haste do I need to play venom rush over alacrity?

[soft shale]

ahahah

now someone ask about exsang

[wispy plaza]

So for new patch we necrolords now right ?

[soft shale]

ya

[wispy plaza]

ty

[soft shale]

only loses like 100 st dps

but gains everywhere else

[gusty mirage]

it's less than 100

[soft shale]

even better

now if only i can brainwash more people with tornado

its like ct

you dont lose much st and gain on anywhere else

[sonic schooner]

@balmy condor pressing 10 keys a second is the feelgood as outlaw

🙄

[balmy condor]

[gusty mirage]

[tulip nacelle]

[balmy condor]

[tulip nacelle]

[sonic schooner]

Smol

[hollow escarp]

[wispy plaza]

any one with good macro for necro spike thing ? would assume mouse over is the way to play right ?

[limber lion]

I don't have any macro for it.

I used to use a mouseover (or a cursor) macro, but it often would just go on incorrect targets because my mouse was in africa.

You honestly don't need one.

I do have the mouseover macro for it, if you'd like it

[cobalt pelican]

i'd recommend at least trying mouseover, both on nameplates and on boss frames and seeing what works for you

[wispy plaza]

is there a macro that casts it on your current target unless you got your mouse on something then it does it on that instead ?

[cobalt pelican]

in raid i tend to exclusively use mouseover on bossframes these days outside of uncluttered environments (huntsman, etc)

[tulip nacelle]

there's one in outlaw pins

[limber lion]

Yes

[wispy plaza]

@limber lion can i get that one please

[hollow escarp]

it's in #outlaw pins

[wispy plaza]

ah right thanks !

[limber lion]

/cast [@mouseover,harm,nodead][] Serrated Bone Spike

[wispy plaza]

thanks everyone !

[limber lion]

Alright, taking a look now.

[winter vapor]

do you folks generally soak seeds on p3 Denny?

[red plaza]

yes

[balmy condor]

I don't think that's a choice

you kinda have to

[limber lion]

1. You're wasting combo points by using Mutilate at max-1 combo points and garrote at max combo points. Always make sure to finish at max-1 or max combo points. Since you're playing Deeper Strata, that means at 5-6 combo points.

2. Your bleed uptimes are pretty bad and you let your bleeds drop several times during the fight. Are you aware of the pandemic feature for dot based classes? Read the command below for an explanation on how Pandemic works. Your bleed uptime on single target should be closer to 95%+ and they should never, ever drop.

3. You need to press Shiv way more often. It should be pressed on cooldown pretty much. You missed 2 entire Shiv casts because you delayed them so much.

4. Your opener is not very optimal. You should definitely check out a guide regarding the opener. This one is easy to fix, just find the correct opener and practice on a dummy a few times.

5. You should be using Vanish with your Vendetta/Shiv every time. You just randomly used it whenever, not great.

6. Your general rotation needs work.

I would highly suggest that you spend some time with a guide going through the fundamentals, like generator/finisher rules, pandemic, opener etc.

Once you get the basics down, you'll see a massive improvement in your performance. These are quite minor things, but they are very easy to fix.

So in summary;
Keep bleeds up at all times
Press Shiv on cooldown
Use Vanish with Vendetta
Fix your opener
Read a guide

Good luck!

@forest delta

!pd

[prisma monolith]

Pandemic takes up to 30% of the duration of a applied dot/buff and adds it to your new applied one. The duration depends on the new instance.
Example: Garrote (18 sec) can be extended by up to 5.4 seconds from an existing instance.
Note: Pandemic applies to most but not all debuffs/buffs

[limber lion]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[sonic schooner]

Ceve is the new wow analyzer

[balmy condor]

@limber lion you need to just make a google doc template like I did dude

much easier

[limber lion]

I'll legitimately have to consider it

Yes, Necro is looking like the best overall choice.

[sonic schooner]

[limber lion]

We're still waiting for sims to see what happens.

[sonic schooner]

[balmy condor]

but they all implemented

[limber lion]

[balmy condor]

[pulsar nimbus]

big oof, never even checked pins RIP

[sonic schooner]

Do more sims

[balmy condor]

I literally can't

[limber lion]

i'll implement the dagger in a bit np

[balmy condor]

you can check my vod from yesterdays stream

and see the pain

[limpid plinth]

Will be so hard to get good logs next tier because Ceverion coaching all rogues to god gamers

[sonic schooner]

I dont wanna see the pain

I wanna see the pin

With every single possible sim ever

[balmy condor]

implemented

YUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUP

[sonic schooner]

220 daggers gang

[limber lion]

It's a vast sea of sin rogues. Any competition is always welcome. :')

[balmy condor]

my favorite piece of gear from the new raid is box [html:icon missing file]

looks sick

[sonic schooner]

No icon

[soft shale]

who needs icons

just plug it into your brain

[forest delta]

Thanks for the help!!

[limpid plinth]

True :p

[limber lion]

My pleasure, mate.

Had to add the comma after the fact

[gusty kestrel]

looks fine to me

can u sim some things for me now

[balmy condor]

[gusty mirage]

those rings look insane

[limber lion]

Even thinking about [html:icon missing file] makes me wet

[bleak sky]

it's absolutely bis in slot

[balmy condor]

how's sylv dagger look? no effect
how's domination set bonus look? no effect
how's domination sockets looking? no effect
what about this raid trinket? no effect

blizz announcing a patch way earlier than expected

now everyone scrambling

[true beacon]

How is assassination looking for mythic plus

[thorny pond]

I think we’ll scale well with new [html:icon missing file]

[gusty kestrel]

its fine ok

[bleak sky]

same as before i think?

[dawn ivy]

does [html:icon missing file] scale with our mastery?

[gusty kestrel]

my feelycraft will be right in the end

[thorny pond]

Right in the feelycraft*

[true beacon]

ive never really played Rogue too much

deciding between outlaw and assassination

[limber lion]

It's doing good, but still losing to Outlaw in overall dps. It's not too too far though.

Sub might even pull ahead of us, but we're waiting for 9.1 sims

Join the line.

[bleak sky]

oh no

mom pick me up I'm scared, I don't wanna play sub rogue

[hoary isle]

yeeeees

[sonic schooner]

Sin rogue is fun

[hoary isle]

❤️ sub

[sonic schooner]

In m+

[balmy condor]

it definitely does

that part we can sim

it's like outlaw > sub >>>> sin in dslice atm

kinda tragic

[sand plume]

is there a certain renown at which you don't get 100% drop rate from bosses?

[true beacon]

Ive played sub before and its fun

[balmy condor]

at which you DONT get 100%?

like 2 or 3

[true beacon]

would it be good for m+

[sonic schooner]

As long as sub is not bis I'm ok, m+ as sub is terribly boring for me

[drowsy parcel]

sub hates necrolord though right

is that true in m+ as well

[sand plume]

oh. I'm at 13 and I could have sworn I just got one 100% from every normal boss I did.

[limber lion]

Yeh, I saw some sims where Outlaw and Sub were neck and neck and Sin was 1k behind

tragic.

[sand plume]

just did my first overlap of a boss between LFR and normal and I didn't get one.

[balmy condor]

yeah that's lucky

[sand plume]

oh weird

[dawn ivy]

its going to be such a whiplash having to play sub competitively for the first time in 2 years

[sonic schooner]

Isn't renown locked by the campain progression now?

Like if u did nothing u can't get above a certain point?

🤔

[south belfry]

Not currently

It was while the campaign was ongoing

[sonic schooner]

I thought it was because when I swapped I get till r15 and then nothing from raid /arena / dungeon. I decides to finish the campain and the week after renown was raining

[bleak sky]

oh god cev don't do this to me

[limber lion]

it's sad, but it's true.

[sonic schooner]

Cev 1k > outlaw > sub > sin

[frigid kestrel]

I don’t mind playing Sub in Keys, just don’t want to go Venth to do it

[bleak sky]

i've got no idea how to play sub, but if it pulls ahead......time to learn I guess?

[gusty kestrel]

ok thanks patrick

[limber lion]

Have fun!

[limber lion]

I've got bad news for you buddy.

[gusty kestrel]

then dont?

didnt know ure automatically joining a covenant when u swap spec

[strange python]

There a good writeup on sbs anywhere? The wowhead page says to basically use it in the opener, but I've read here to save it for Emeni's trait. So...opener and then hold stacks for the crit? Dump stacks asap during then if it's a pure ST fight?

[limber lion]

Yes pretty much.

It's not really complex.

If there's multiple targets, you use SBS on everything. You just want to make sure you have your bleed up on as many targets as possible

Outside of that you just save for the gemstone windows and use them to avoid capping charges.

[strange python]

Any reason to not just dump all charges during gemstone if it's a patchwerk fight?

I get the cap reasoning if adds may come, but you'll tend to know in advance if they will or won't

[limber lion]

No reason, that is exactly what you do.

You should have 2 charges for every gemstone window on ST fights.

And you dump em both

[strange python]

Got it. Okay, so basically works exactly like you'd think if you've been playing sin for awhile

Time to grab a gemstone WA

[bleak sky]

so let's say on sire

[limber lion]

http://wago.io/MarrowedGemstone

[limber lion]

Pretty much.

[bleak sky]

I open with sbs, save the rest for gem proc

sbs all the adds on p2; keep funneling sire

[quasi badge]

Doomblade is not craftable on a cloack right now in 9.5 right? Do it will be avaiable in 9.1?

[strange python]

Theoretically on sire you'd stick it on the horseman, or on the du cabalists

[bleak sky]

and p3 just wait for gemstones proc but dont overcap sbs stacks?

[strange python]

Because it comes back when they die

[strange python]

Thx

[balmy condor]

correct

[limber lion]

Pretty much, if we're only talking about SBS here.

But you of course want to bleed stuff up as well with ruptures/garrotes

The basic stuff

But yeah

[limber lion]

Yes

[bleak sky]

I always try to keep rupture + CT on all adds, garrote doesn't always make it there

[limber lion]

If you dump everything during Gemstones, you automatically avoid capping that way

[limber lion]

I just keep garrote on Sire/Remornia

Rupture/CT for the adds

[strange python]

Would you not just SBS the cabalists even without gem? Since charges return when they die?

[limber lion]

You would

[bleak sky]

cev you're a gem ❤️

[limber lion]

like I said

You SBS everything

[strange python]

Oh sorry misread

[limber lion]

that doesn't have the bleed on them yet

[strange python]

Thought the guy said wait till gemstone

[limber lion]

[limber lion]

That's p3

There are no adds in p3

[strange python]

Does sbs give energy for the bleed ticks?

[limber lion]

No.

[strange python]

:(

[limber lion]

Only Rupture/Garrote/Internal Bleeding Kidney Shot do

[strange python]

I'm used to 95% haste

[desert inlet]

Is Sub looking cooler than Sin in M+? Do I have an excuse to stay Venthyr?

[strange python]

8.3 spoiled me

[limber lion]

[balmy condor]

bad thing to get used to

[limber lion]

Sub is looking great for m+

I don't know about "cooler"

[balmy condor]

1 patch out of 15 years of sin

[limber lion]

It's still shuriken storm - bp spam

[bleak sky]

I miss the haste proc out of venthyr too 😦

[strange python]

Yeah I know, I've played rogue for years but had to swap in 9.0 because rogue was trash. So my most recent muscle memory was it

[limber lion]

Honestly, I never noticed it

[royal lantern]

fuu in assassination and whispr in sub channel

what is this

[limber lion]

I didn't track Thrill Seeker

so I barely noticed it ever

[bleak sky]

I don't either, but it just feels so good

[desert inlet]

But if shuriken storm black powder does big dam

[limber lion]

implying that Whispyr is never in sub

[desert inlet]

That's pretty cool

[vital tapir]

what's wrong with it?
my pee brain can't handle anything more!

[strange python]

Whispyr is everywhere. Whispyr is life.

[limber lion]

Nothing, but I don't think there's particularly anything "cool" about spamming 2 abilities over and over

[gusty mirage]

if I push my buttons harder will I do more damage? @limber lion

[limber lion]

I guess :')

[strange python]

Never missed whispyr more than when I was in the lock discord for all of nathria.

[limber lion]

Harder and faster

It's important to do both

[gusty mirage]

[balmy condor]

[vital tapir]

it's cool alright, I can watch series on the 2nd screen bc that rotation I can do in my sleep

p sure my cat can do it too.

[limber lion]

gamer moves

[vital tapir]

[desert inlet]

Efficiency

[gusty mirage]

??? "pretty sure"? your cat's a gamer

your cat could outperform 80% of this channel ez

[vital tapir]

my cat's a fucking gamer alright

esp when he falls asleep on my keyboard

[balmy condor]

profile pic checks out

[vital tapir]

[royal lantern]

whispr is like a fart in the wind

everywhere and nowhere at once

[hollow escarp]

[royal lantern]

but you can smell him

[gloomy knoll]

@balmy condor any theotar sin stonks with the changes

?

[limber lion]

Ask again in 2 weeks.

[gloomy knoll]

when heroic comes out?

[limber lion]

Whenever the sims are finished.

However long that takes.

[royal lantern]

sudden fractures is weird, ngl

[gloomy knoll]

bless us with data

[royal lantern]

or more like, why are all rogue conduits so bad that sudden fractures is good lmao

[hollow escarp]

because it's plug and forget

[gloomy knoll]

rogue conduits just undertuned

iuno why blizzard decided all of our conduits should be worth 1%

[winter vapor]

AOTC 🙂 like 6 or less people alive!

[gloomy knoll]

grats

[royal lantern]

mate, i was laughing so hard at SL release

when so many classes had conduits that where like ABILITY X DOES 30%MORE DMG

and outlaw didnt had a single conduit that increases the dmg of a ability

[limber lion]

Congrats!

[winter vapor]

thank youuuu

thankfully it wasnt logged...

[gloomy knoll]

seriously like if it wasn't for cto spec would literally be dead

[hollow escarp]

it's always logged on your armory

[gloomy knoll]

in the dirt 12 feet deep

[hollow escarp]

[vestal wren]

@balmy condor not sure if deathspike is rly that good in m+

esp. after the nerfs

[royal lantern]

[tulip nacelle]

buff deathspike

[royal lantern]

delete outlaw

[kind frigate]

delete sub

[royal lantern]

delete wow

[vestal wren]

next tier will be exciting

[hollow river]

every rogue spec will have it's uses

[gloomy knoll]

buff death spike

[vestal wren]

esp. given how people need to decide between subtlety and assassination if they want to play necro on sin

[limber lion]

Have you simmed it?

[royal lantern]

i mean fuu, for most people that is not a hard question

[limber lion]

or just feelcraft?

[gloomy knoll]

it's been simmed for outlaw

and it's worse than dog shit

[soft shale]

it was a 4% aoe gain

but 0% st

so nononoo

[vestal wren]

only saw some early sims and it wasn't one of the strong choices in dungeon slice

[royal lantern]

if people can chose bettwen beeing a sub 1trick with venthyr and do "only" st, or taking necro witch is the best for sin and outlaw for raiding and m+

most peeps will go necro

[gloomy knoll]

venth chads only necro bois hit the bricks 🚪

[vestal wren]

i am not sure if there is anything else i miss tho

thats why i ask

[limber lion]

Nah probs not

[soft shale]

zold is quite strong

[limber lion]

Zoldyck is most likely the play tbh

[vestal wren]

^

[gloomy knoll]

see here's the thing though

outlaw in raid is troll

[vestal wren]

zold or even doom in specific dungeons

[gloomy knoll]

and sub has st, while sin has cleave

i.e.

[soft shale]

sin does a lot of cleave baseline

[gloomy knoll]

venth chads only

[balmy condor]

I didn't write the pin

[soft shale]

that is quite good in itself

[royal lantern]

thats a weird thing to say when sub is like 0,8%more 100%st

[gloomy knoll]

it's baseline like 2-3% higher

and that's without our better tripple potencies

and shadow damage bonuses from gems and dagger

[royal lantern]

inc: sub gets a nerf again cus they will do decent dmg

[soft shale]

the hc love tap

[royal lantern]

eviscerate: removed

[gloomy knoll]

still better than outlaw

in raid

[vestal wren]

huh?

[limber lion]

@vestal wren I wrote the pin

[gloomy knoll]

cev wrote it

lol

[limber lion]

He just posted it

[vestal wren]

alright

[balmy condor]

#assassination message

I do as I'm told

[vestal wren]

the question is targeted at you then

[limber lion]

Feel free to remove it

If Deathspike is bad, remove it.

The pin was posted before we had sims for the nerfed Deathspike

[vestal wren]

i haven't tested it in dungeons, but it doesen't sim super good

[limber lion]

If the nerfed Deathspike is awful, just remove it from the pin.

The previous Deathspike was performing better than Zoldyck

But yeh

Feel free to remove it

[cerulean nest]

i love sitting back and letting you chads concoct BIS and stick it in the pins

can't wait

[balmy condor]

I mean

[royal lantern]

virgin TC vs chad lurker

[balmy condor]

I could do without the "just sim it"

when I actually just can't

kinda really getting on my fucking nerves

not gonna lie

[cobalt pelican]

just askmrrobot it

[vestal wren]

bis lists?

[cobalt pelican]

lol

[royal lantern]

when will we get the feint/cloak list whispr

[balmy condor]

!def

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Defensives usability: http://tiny.cc/q602uz

[vestal wren]

^

[royal lantern]

HOLY SHIT

[vestal wren]

whisper is ahead of you

[royal lantern]

HE DID IT

[thorny pond]

That’s one way to get log review priority

[spice spire]

This has happened for a while Tryan lol

Like a week or two, not huge while

[vestal wren]

from what its worth, i haven't seen deathspike being ahead in sims

so for the time being i assume its not worth

[balmy condor]

brb I need to get back to work simming the definitely implemented and working sylvanas dagger for giga stonks to the moon damage

[limber lion]

@vestal wren but yeah, it does say "We're waiting for the sims" in the pin

We didn't have sims when the pin was posted

[bleak sky]

+4 DPS HUGE

[limber lion]

as we're still currently still waiting for them

[gusty mirage]

gotta do what you gotta do

[balmy condor]

[limber lion]

It's pure speculation

[vestal wren]

hehe thats the discussion i started

[limber lion]

For all the 100+ people that came in here

[gusty mirage]

[limber lion]

when the release date was announced

[gusty mirage]

that ring looks insane

[vestal wren]

"is it worth keeping it?"

kinda

[balmy condor]

it definitely was ahead

by about 2%

[limber lion]

Yeh

[vestal wren]

pre nerf?

[gusty mirage]

yes

[balmy condor]

yes

[vestal wren]

i mean that was expected

it was probably even higher on outlaw

so should we update the pin or not?

given that its not ahead anymore

at least in dungeon slice

[gusty mirage]

we don't know for sure if its ahead or not yet

[bleak sky]

why not ignore the pins

while the 9.1 stuff isnt ready

[vestal wren]

wdym?

[balmy condor]

there

it's fine

we update

whatever

[vestal wren]

is there something missing that prevents us from knowing?

i seem to miss sth obviousely

[gusty mirage]

well yeah, most of the 9.1 stuff

[cerulean nest]

"Zoldyck is the choices"

[tulip nacelle]

was about 2% for outlaw as well

[soft shale]

also something cool to look at is can items have regular sockets and dom sockets?

[balmy condor]

not that I know of

[soft shale]

ok so we playing m+ with normal heads

[vestal wren]

what exactly?

[soft shale]

that is going to be so funky

[limber lion]

I mean the dom sockets do work in m+

[vestal wren]

is there anything that interacts with sbs thats not in the sim?