assassination

[limber lion]

I had to hold my damage for 20+ seconds completely in p1

[cold spoke]

same

[nimble tartan]

are you 2-1-1 or 2-2

[limber lion]

and I still did 7.5k in overall

You just need to learn to maximize your output in p2

[pale fossil]

Oh my good god

[limber lion]

Be it keeping dots up on everything

[fluid eagle]

Yeah I know, that's why i said its not an excuse

2-2

[pale fossil]

I just did a Sludge pull and had NO soulbinds activated

[limber lion]

Having higher up time

Or whatnot

[limber lion]

My boy.

[nimble tartan]

oh 2-2 should be good to go for parsing

[limber lion]

How much dps are you doing in p2 and p3?

[gusty mirage]

Ultimate chad move

[pale fossil]

I clicked the Sanctum Report to confirm that I had Niya up and there was nothing below the Renown bar hahahahaha

[limber lion]

Around 6k is fine for p3

[cold spoke]

who needs soulbinds

[limber lion]

P2 should be around 8k+

Feel free to link the log, I can take a peak.

[fluid eagle]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/v7wM8YaFhq4KzdHZ#fight=23&type=damage-done&phase=3 this is my best log I did 7k in p2 only 5.6 in p3

[limber lion]

So one thing I immediately noticed

was that you held your Vendetta after the overlap

That's actually kinda bad because you use lust after second blood price (which is the norm for melee)

But by you holding Vendetta, you don't get the last 20s of lust

inside of your Vendetta window.,

[fluid eagle]

what do you mean by after the overlap?

do you mean i heald my 3rd vendetta for P3 rather than using in p2

[limber lion]

After the last massacre+ravage+shattering pain overlap

You held your very, very last Vendetta

[fluid eagle]

gotcha let me look

[limber lion]

for like 16s

[fluid eagle]

yeah i did... hmm ~17 secpmds

seconds*

[limber lion]

So you didn't get much value out of the lust

Blue is lust
Red is vendetta

By using the Vendetta on cooldown, you would have gotten the full value out of it during the lust.

Would highly recommend that

[fluid eagle]

Yeah I didn't have it all during lust i dont know why i dindt cast it for 18 seconds...

that is pretty dumb

[limber lion]

There should be some downtime before the overlap as well.

You also, for whatever reason, use Mutilate at max-1

a lot

and garrote at max combo points

Don't do that

You always use a finisher at max combo points or max-1

And since you're playing with Vigor, that means at 4-5 CP

There is no need to build to 5 CP every time.

You shouldn't waste combo points with garrote either

It's a generator, use it when you're missing combo points, not when you're maxed out

[pale fossil]

If you mess up are you're at max CP, but garrote will expire before the GCD after your finisher, you go ahead and garrote, right?

It's just that you messed up by being in that situation in the first place.

[limber lion]

Yeah, this should never happen

Pandemic exists for a reason

It's 5.4s or something for Garrote

That's a lot of room to do stuff

To finish, to build

etc.

That's a very basic thing though, you NEVER EVER press Mutilate when you're at max-1 or max combo points.

Energy waste and combo point wastes are one of the major things to keep track of, alongside high bleed uptime.

In p2, you don't want this to happen

[fluid eagle]

All of that makes a ton of sense, and definitely things i need to improve. Would you suggest I don't run EP vigor or is that fine. It looks like hte next week I did the vendetta correctly and used it at beginning of lust full duration

[limber lion]

Always make sure to keep SnD up with Envenoms

Never let it drop so you have to cast it again

[fluid eagle]

yeah its awful that i cast that during vendetta; should never cast it besides at beginning of fight

[limber lion]

Even if it means not refreshing a rupture early

Yeh

You just maintain it with Envenoms

[scenic meteor]

what are the exact pandemic times ?

garotte : 5.4?

[limber lion]

But yeah, there's quite a few minor things you can improve on

[scenic meteor]

what about rupture and CT?

[limber lion]

It's 30% of the applied duration.

It's different for each combo point

Because the more combo points you use, the longer the applied duration

[scenic meteor]

ah okay

i was assuming 5 cp

[limber lion]

But for 5CP rupture it's 7.2s I think

[scenic meteor]

but then you have DS

[limber lion]

CT is 4.something

It's safe to just use a weak aura that tracks pandemic

And just reapply when they start to glow or whatever.

You don't have to remember the exact numbers yourself.

!pd

[prisma monolith]

Pandemic takes up to 30% of the duration of a applied dot/buff and adds it to your new applied one. The duration depends on the new instance.
Example: Garrote (18 sec) can be extended by up to 5.4 seconds from an existing instance.
Note: Pandemic applies to most but not all debuffs/buffs

[scenic meteor]

cheers

[fluid eagle]

Oh a question for how to play CT properly in ST, is it actually worth pressing? my average cast of CT in P3 did 5.3k and the average envenom did 7.2

[limber lion]

@fluid eagle Are you looking to get a better parse or what's the plan?

[limber lion]

Yes, you should be pressing CT in single target outside of Shiv windows.

Let's compare your p2 and my p2 damage breakdowns, shall we?

[fluid eagle]

great

I appreciate you doing this btw

[limber lion]

You did 7060 dps, I did 9094 dps.

[limber lion]

No worries mate, we're all here to learn mate. :p

Here's your breakdown

Here's mine

What do you notice immediately?

[fluid eagle]

I definitely do want to get a better parse but its less about the parse and more about improving. I played Outlaw the majority of hte tier and know i will have to play Assass in SoD.

my CT damage sucks

yours is great

[limber lion]

Is there something that pops out right away?

Yes pretty much

You should be utilizing CT way more

I pretty much cast CT 3 times every time you cast it once.

CT is our biggest finisher in AoE

You should have ruptures and garrotes on both Sire/Remornia at all times, right

[fluid eagle]

I try to yeah

[limber lion]

So when the cabalists spawn, you should prioritize using CT right away

[fluid eagle]

gotcha

[limber lion]

And only after that start applying more ruptures

Making sure to always keep SnD/CT up

[steep kelp]

Hold on a second... I'm new here. CT is best talent for ST?......

[limber lion]

CT is nutty in 2 targets, let alone 4.

[limber lion]

No it is not.

[steep kelp]

Ok thank you. I was starting to get dizzy

[limber lion]

We're talking about Sire Denathrius, where we commonly use CT.

[maiden plaza]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[steep kelp]

I think I understand. For the melee adds and Remornia. Sorry for butting in

[limber lion]

No worries

[fluid eagle]

So I did notice that about my CT usage and then tried to use CT more but I dont know why it feels so awkward to me

[balmy condor]

You still cast it in single target

Is the thing

It’s just not better than pb

[limber lion]

You just gotta get used to pressing it more, especially when there are multiple targets

Whenever there are 2+ targets, you need to prioritize CT a bit higher.

But that's not the only problem

[fluid eagle]

okay, doesnt surprise me

[limber lion]

Look at the amount of casts as well.

I pretty much cast everything more

[void pecan]

Sudden fractures the go to potency? or should I just sim between them to find out

[balmy condor]

On everything other than sludge yeah

[limber lion]

That's probably because I made sure to always keep bleeds up on both Remornia and Sire, which in turn gives me more energy to do things.

Let's see how our energy gain compares

Do note also

[void pecan]

Cool, thanks fam. Gotta get better than 145 now

[fluid eagle]

1300 less

and i wasted 500 more

[limber lion]

that our P2 is the exact same length

[fluid eagle]

so i gained 1700 less than you

[limber lion]

I got over a thousand more energy than you

during p2

[fluid eagle]

oh im looking at a different one of your logs

where you had even more than that from me

1700 more

[limber lion]

Yeah no, this is my private log

[fluid eagle]

gotcha

[limber lion]

That's the only public log I have

That's a really bad one, don't look at it.

Anyways

[balmy condor]

Calling should insta drop a 200

[limber lion]

I had over a thousand energy in p2 compared to you

And that's only because I made sure to always keep bleeds up on multiple targets

AS WELL as keeping poisons up

That's a really important thing to remember

If you slap a 32s rupture on Remornia, you will have to slap her a few times during it

[scenic meteor]

is there a video of your kill ceverion?

[limber lion]

because your poison will run out

[limber lion]

No, sorry.

You need to make sure to track both bleeds and poisons very actively

[fluid eagle]

So yeah I see that i only had 71 % uptime for deadly poison and 59% uptime for garrote on remornia. and only 75% for rupture

[limber lion]

The second your poison drops, you lose all the potential energy from the bleeds.

[lone moth]

whats fastest way to gain renow. just changed to necro

[limber lion]

Raids on all difficulties, then wb, then callings, then campaign then weeklies.

[fluid eagle]

they all dropped off at the same time pretty much

and for al ong time

23 seconds strraight

[limber lion]

Yeah, here's your deadly poison uptime on Sire specifically

Here's mine

[fluid eagle]

oof yeah i had a 32gap there too

[limber lion]

All the other bleeds have lower uptimes as well, so you really need to pay more attention to it.

This is an outlier though:

[fluid eagle]

so that was the first time i had ever used CT in my life

[limber lion]

That's fair enough.

[fluid eagle]

still should be better

but that is the case

[deft obsidian]

Cev in p2 are you priortising dotting cabalists after sire/remornia or just CT and maintaining focus on the other two?

[limber lion]

But yeah, that's quite a few things already that we're gone through.

[fluid eagle]

Best way to practice for these type of things? should I just run heroic sire a bunch or just do M+ as Assass?

[limber lion]

Just:

1. Make sure to keep poisons up on your bled targets at all times
2. Make sure to keep bleeds up on your main targets (Sire and Remornia) at all times
3. Use CT more actively

[limber lion]

Honestly just playing more with CT in different scenarios

Heroic raids are a good practice spot for sure.

[fluid eagle]

So I have a heroic sale on sunday, should I just use CT for every boss just so I use it more?

[limber lion]

I make sure to have all bleeds up on both targets before the cabalists spawn

So when the cabalists spawn, I can instantly CT and change to rupturing them

[limber lion]

That's fine, I would probably just use it on Huntsman/SKS/Council/SLG/Sire

[deft obsidian]

Perf 👌

[limber lion]

But you can definitely just rock it from start to finish

And get some single target practice in as well.

(Useful for p3)

[fluid eagle]

k I think i'll do that because I have a feeling this talent wont be going away in 9.1 and will have use on bosses. and if I run CT do I always run EP/Vigor?

[limber lion]

Yeh might as well.

[balmy condor]

I have a feeling this talent wont be going away in 9.1

god I hate that you're right

[limber lion]

Make CT baseline

[deft obsidian]

This

[balmy condor]

100% true

should be baseline

[fluid eagle]

Same, but it is what it is. I appreciate you taking time to walk through that with me, I did see a lot of those issues but I didn't realize how glaring some of those were.

[balmy condor]

but also god damnit why are we casting it in single target

fuck that

[granite fjord]

For current content is Doomblade best in slot on shoulders or hands?

[balmy condor]

hands, but will be cloak in like 2 weeks

10 days?

[granite fjord]

Got it. Thanks @balmy condor 🙂

[balmy condor]

my pleasure

[limber lion]

No worries, it's what we do in here.

If anything comes up, feel free to dm me

I'm an EU frog though, so if I'm sleeping, I'm sure our lovely @balmy condor would love to help out in my stead.

[limber lion]

[south oak]

Is it bad to go venthyr when doing a little bit of m+ pushing on the side of raids?

[limber lion]

Nah, it's completely fine.

[balmy condor]

Shift change?

[limber lion]

If you're not pushing for world ranks for mega high keys, you'll be fine.

[thorny pond]

CT baseline then what goes in that slot for talents?

[balmy condor]

A new, exciting talent

[thorny pond]

Exsang that is good?

[south oak]

Fleshcraft seems alot more useful than door of shadows though monkaHMM

[limber lion]

Yes please.

[scenic meteor]

/wa

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[limber lion]

Good night lovelies.

[thorny pond]

Bye dad

[balmy condor]

[hollow river]

[thorny pond]

Give us that old guaranteed crit on next ability use

The talent before seal fate

[shut garnet]

a new exciting talent

someone say venom rush?

[thorny pond]

Get out

[shut garnet]

[hollow river]

something to make FoK crit like SS would be nice

[balmy condor]

2 changes I giga want to see:
Ct baseline
Fok 2cp baseline

[thorny pond]

Shrouded suffocation—-

Or Echoing

[shut garnet]

expedient baseline

[torn atlas]

But then I can't enjoy the moments where I Fan a pack of 5+ for 1 CP.

[balmy condor]

Turn hidden blades into echoing, turn ct into shrouded, and idk, turn pb into “shiv makes your next envenom deal 1000% damage” or some shit

[soft shale]

pb can be kingsbane

[balmy condor]

Sure

[thorny pond]

Just make PB legion version

[soft shale]

noonono

[balmy condor]

No

[shut garnet]

assarogue would be so cocained out

if those changes went thru

[balmy condor]

Definitely not that

[dawn ivy]

Pb legion was fun only because it was addictive to get massive bombs

but it wasnt GOOD gameplay

[thorny pond]

Yea

Let me get giga tilted still

[shut garnet]

poison bomb is actually a meme talent

[soft shale]

every day ct ST comes closer

and a day passes in africa

[balmy condor]

Poison bomb debuffs the enemy, increasing poison damage for 15 seconds

You still get the giga rng of lining up with shiv

Everyone wins

[shut garnet]

ngl is there any spec that actually has 0 rng

attached to its performance

[soft shale]

rogue the spec where aoe/cleave talents are only 3% worse than the st ones

[thorny pond]

There needs to be some drawback

[dawn ivy]

there are some specs that arent RNG dependant

[dry void]

its kinda funny how bad exsanguinate is since the nighthold relic nerf

[shut garnet]

exang was nutty in 8.3

[scenic meteor]

so do i need to craft doomblade again? out of the glove spot

[brazen rampart]

Did they buff sylv dagger in today's build? I remember the pin yesterday saying it was garbo but now it says it's very good

[shut garnet]

they buffed it by like 500% or something ridiculous

i think?

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/597506344878342186/855554974142693416/unknown.png

[brazen rampart]

Sick, can't wait to not get a single one for months

[dry void]

thank god we have that sick raid utility so we can trade with fellow rogues in the raid

[brazen rampart]

Shroud on pull is bis utility

[dry void]

u know whats the best

distracting the boss during shroud to cause your raidmembers a heartattack 👍

[brazen rampart]

Distract the boss to look behind so it can't parry anyone's first hit on pull

[eager river]

distracting shriekwing is bis

she just flies the entire fight

[hollow river]

wut

[balmy condor]

Huge utility

[steep kelp]

Since we're on the subject of the dagger, will it drop on all difficulties?

[dawn ivy]

yeah

[severe sparrow]

sooo there's not a huge reason to go grind for assa gear atm, eh? im geared dumb cuz i just swapped from outlaw, but general consensus to save the face slamming, right?

[plain thistle]

assa gear? just use your outlaw gear for now, equip 2 daggers of course

[severe sparrow]

like, not VERS 2 DA MAX

[strange python]

Secondary stat optimisation across the board isn't THAT big of a deal.

It won't make or break you at least

[severe sparrow]

well my trinkets are garbage but i guess those arent spec specific

point is, there's no point in going hunting for shit rn

right?

[strange python]

Trinkets aren't really spec tuned for us

[plain thistle]

your outlaw gear is probably fine

[strange python]

Good ol trinks are just good rogue trinks

[severe sparrow]

yes i worded that dumb cuz im drunk

[gusty mirage]

I played a buncha vers when I first switched

and did fine

[plain thistle]

dont worry too much about secondary

[shy dust]

Can you check that for bandit guile’s

[strange python]

Yeah I still popped an 80 something rank on sploogefist with vers gears and a 220 offhand

You're fine

[severe sparrow]

yeah but if we were not right before a patch id attempt to give a small fuck about secondaries

[hollow river]

how much easier do mythic raids get later in xpac? jw

[gusty mirage]

they usually get tuned down so it becomes more accessible

and strats get fine tuned

[hollow river]

during the same xpan?

[gusty mirage]

oh I'm dumb I read that as same tier

[hollow river]

(:

[strange python]

Do you mean if you go backwards?

[hollow river]

yeah

[strange python]

It depends on the power creep

[hollow river]

i couldn't get the whole CN xmog mythic ):

[strange python]

Like bfa starting raids were a fucking joke by 8.3

Coz the power creep was completely insane

[gusty mirage]

yeah corruption took the creep and multiplied it by like 1000 too

[hollow river]

i'm wearing like half mythic half heroic/m+gear

lol

[strange python]

But it's not a thing you do anymore

Lfr gear in 9.1 is nearly on par with mythic gear

You leave old raids completely behind

[gusty mirage]

afaik the EP trinkets were still incredibly insane

which is why at the beginning of 8.3 people were still farming them

[strange python]

Super big outlier though

[gusty mirage]

yea

[strange python]

Thats mega rare these days

Nearly reminded me of dst from tbc

[hollow river]

i know that

i want the rest of the mythic set anyway x.x

[strange python]

Oh icic

[gusty mirage]

if you wanna farm mog, people will do mog runs and it'll get easier as ilvl gets higher

[hollow river]

i need the glowy glowy

[strange python]

Well all I'll say about that is it will be a hell of a while before slg and sire are rollovers unless your guild already rolls them

[hollow river]

rofl

5/10 atm

[strange python]

And your headpiece is locked to sire

Lol

[hollow river]

trying to find a better home

[shut garnet]

@shy dust https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/commit/6e41e2c1b6aa7f63548f6a5ab0a3d036ca0cb687

ave a look friend

[shy dust]

Ty!

[loud silo]

exsang rogue go BRRRRRRR

[misty edge]

The rumors are true the dagger was buffed! 🤗

[bleak sky]

well shit
sbs feels preeeeeeetty good

[hollow river]

yup

[shadow wedge]

Hello boys, doomblade legendary will be viable in 9.1?

[thorny pond]

Yes

Just changing slots

[shadow wedge]

what u mean

[thorny pond]

Currently best slot to craft on is hands but due to new socket system we will be crafting on cape

Barring any last minute changes

[hollow river]

so SBS crit was already added

and i'm seeing 2 ticks of bleed every tick

idr if that's how it was already or not

[loud silo]

wait what do you mean new socket system?

[thorny pond]

Domination sockets

[loud silo]

oooooh

oh wow those are pretty cool ngl

is there a limit to how many you can have or does it work like a regular socket

[balmy condor]

??

[hollow river]

Multiple sockets on each piece of gear and there’s a set bonus.

[balmy condor]

There’s only 5 pieces that have them

Or 5 slots

I guess there’s 2 pieces for some slots

[hollow river]

????

[balmy condor]

2 ticks for every tick?

What’s that mean

[hollow river]

Two instances of damage

On 1 tick

[balmy condor]

[hollow river]

Swear

[balmy condor]

That’s not how that works

Are you using sudden fractures?

[hollow river]

Yes

Is that why

[balmy condor]

Yeah

[hollow river]

I’m dumb

Big dumb sorry

But man that damage tho

My SBS used to do like 183

[soft shale]

let me tell you it can also crit now

stonks

[hollow river]

Now it’s doing like 330 and 260 added on most ticks and critting for 520+260

I know I didn’t know that was already implemented

Thought it was a 9.1 thing

[balmy condor]

No worries

I thought you meant the crit was showing as a second tick

And I was like

[hollow river]

Lol

[edgy cosmos]

anyone willing look over some of my mythic pulls for the very small things i can improve on LF absolute OCD master

[humble ginkgo]

do I run sudden fractures right

[soft shale]

yes

[humble ginkgo]

ok

[soft shale]

only boss you dont is sludge

that one wps is better

[humble ginkgo]

wps?

[soft shale]

well placed steel

[humble ginkgo]

what do you do on lets say huntsman while trying to keep up 2t dots and the dog runs away and ur dots fall off on the dog

I heard theres a lkot of 2t bosses

and 2t assa wins compared to outlaw

Just feels like pointless

[soft shale]

if tanks play well dots dont fall off

[humble ginkgo]

hm okay

do you run single target talents in 2-3T fights?

[gloomy knoll]

2-3 target is usually EP + vigor / deeper + crimson tempest

you can run subterfuge as well (i belive for full 2-3 target cleave and not just partial it is better) me personally i like MA

[humble ginkgo]

I like MA

[gloomy knoll]

but that's only because the two target cleaves we have now are kind of

[humble ginkgo]

2-3 target you go crimson?

[gloomy knoll]

meh or not full 2t cleaves

yea crimson any time there's more than 1 target

basically

or when boss has super high movement like denny so poison bomb loses value

[humble ginkgo]

wtf

[gloomy knoll]

?

[humble ginkgo]

I mean it says ex 5 man instances

thats why im suprised

so 2t bosses I go crimson tempest

like huntsman

[gloomy knoll]

multi target is anything over 1

[humble ginkgo]

ok

[gloomy knoll]

technically but yea

huntsman you'd go ct

[humble ginkgo]

what is CT

oh

crimson tempesst

ok

when do you even use that finisher?

[soft shale]

keep it up outside shiv windows

[humble ginkgo]

oh its another bleed

shit ok

[cobalt pelican]

big reading power

[humble ginkgo]

on huntsman do I want to do normal opener and apply both bleeds on huntsman then do them on the dog?

[soft shale]

it is a but diff but i dont remember

i mean if youre necro you sbs snd sbs

or wait maybe 1 garrote so it does not have cd

[humble ginkgo]

oh I see that

he Sbs slice and sbs the dog im guessing

he starts on margore

[sonic schooner]

u want to keep all bleeds up, CT aswell

i usually go sbs sbs snd on the opener cause i dont enevenom early enough to keep the buff rolling

dont know if it s the best but that s what i founnd for myself

[humble ginkgo]

u got this

xqcl

[drifting cloud]

why is your vendetta running there

[safe barn]

idk dude

i was in "fuck this" mode

[severe sparrow]

what plates are those?

or like uh

is it plater? fuck sorry words are hard

[humble ginkgo]

plater

atrocityUI

[gloomy knoll]

@balmy condor for that keep ct up except during shiv windows rule at what density would you just keep ct up regardless

denny p1 for example

say shiv window is when ads spawn

i'm 100% cting

regardless

and quite often during raid encounters aoe is in a limited window where ads come in etc

so that rule never really made sense to me

[muted adder]

is it worth it to craft legendaries now or wait until 9.1?

heard we might have to recraft

[gloomy knoll]

we can't craft them now

the option isn't available

[loud trench]

I am also super confused on this as well, ran it as a rogue tonight on my alt

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/BTWtchNXgj7xdDzK#fight=14&type=damage-done

Roast me for not knowing 2/1/1 well enough but also, my ph1 damage, i feel like i have a CT falling off during transitions or right before adds spawn so im just sending another CT and then FOK FOK/CT and then funneling back into the boss but they always seem to happen during shiv windows too

[gloomy knoll]

sometimes ct falls off right before or a couple seconds before ad spawns

i generally just hold it for those couple seconds

since i know i'm going to be casting it when ads spawn anyways

but yea shiv lines up with the ad spawns as well

but the density is so high there

it's def worth to CT

even if in a shiv window imo

[loud trench]

yea I have no idea if im just blowing my windows or what but i feel like im doing it "right" but im leaving ph1 at like 6k on a somewhat decent pull w/doomblade and i feel like that is far far too low

[gloomy knoll]

i mean your damage in p1 is entirely dependant on your raid

not super important

[loud trench]

also my ph2 damage, granted I have never really seen the fight as melee nor 2/1/1 but I feel like im hardly casting envenoms with the amount of time i am trying to send off and refresh bleeds on sire and remoria and a calbst or two

[gloomy knoll]

you envenom a lot less in cleave build yea

but you still do it

once bleeds are gucci

and during shivs

[loud trench]

ok ty

[muted adder]

is it better to refresh rupture a couple secs before it expires or just right at the last second

[vernal tapir]

Switching over to sin in time for the new patch. Is venth bis here?

[gloomy knoll]

you want to rupture in pandemic

which is 30% of the casts length i believe

a general rule is ~7 seconds or less left on rupture though

[gloomy knoll]

depends on what you want to play next tier

sin / sub = venth

sin / outlaw = necro

[vernal tapir]

It seems like I have a decision to make..

I'll want to keep sub for pvp but Outlaw for M+

fuk

[gloomy knoll]

sin pvp will be better than sub next tier

or at least it's lookin that way

[vernal tapir]

sweet

Reckon hold off on crafting Doomblade lego until 9.1 patch?

[thorny pond]

Probably

[gloomy knoll]

yea we'll more than likely be making it on cape

once 9.1 drops

to allow for dom gem

[limpid plinth]

But we can farm soul ash indefinetly in 9.1 so does not really matter

[thorny pond]

Just one more thing we would have to do in 9.1

[balmy condor]

the moment you have more than 1 target the shiv thing goes out the window, like atimor? you'd CT during shiv

[hollow river]

is 5 bleeds "saturated"?

[balmy condor]

kinda

[hollow river]

is there any DR or stop on energy regen with VW?

[balmy condor]

for all realistic purposes, 5 bleeds is saturated

[hollow river]

or will you just be giga "over saturated" at a certain point

right

[balmy condor]

we don't "stop", but we do change the time to death because of it

so if you're saturated, you wouldn't rupture with like 5 seconds left

[hollow river]

right

[balmy condor]

but on something like sire

where you aren't

you would hit the add with a rupture

[hollow river]

hmm

was playing around with 4 targets

keeping all bleeds up

[balmy condor]

mhm

[hollow river]

and i could actually utilize every GCD

felt nice

think we will be able to run EP deeper in m+?

possibly

9.1 ofc

[balmy condor]

you already kinda can

it's very close

[hollow river]

really

my only worry would be ST

[balmy condor]

well the worry should be the lack of energy to work with

cleave/aoe openers are really awkward and sketch

[hollow river]

i need to mess with more out of the box thinking sims

yeah true

[sand sigil]

jw, but on st i keep hearing ppl telling me vigor + EP is strictly better if u know how to "pool properly", even tho ds/bs clearly sims better by a notable amt... do the ppl telling me this just not have good enough gear so their ep + vigor just happens to sim higher for them? like every time i run deeper + blindside ppl always ask why and i'm like well it's a clear dps increase so why wouldn't i?

[hollow river]

the ramp up would be even slower

well yeah everyone sims different

[balmy condor]

vigor + ep isn't "strictly better", but on something like sludgefist, you got extra energy to pool into pillars, and the EP is guaranteed damage over the random blindside

so there's that

[hollow river]

for a lot of people BS DS is only like 20dps gain

[balmy condor]

yeah it's quite close

[fleet anchor]

jw, but on st i keep hearing ppl telling me vigor + EP is strictly better if u know how to "pool properly"
I don't really see how it's anything other than a numbers game. Vigor + EP vs. Deeper + Blindside is a pure numbers game

And it's very close

[hollow river]

and it highly depends on how well you play with either

[sand sigil]

idk mine simmed 0.6% more. but ppl saying there's some 'pooling magic' to outplay the 0.6% lol

[balmy condor]

there is not

[sand sigil]

like u telling me if i pool energy all the sudden ep + vigor just catches up 0.6%? idk i don't think so so i just have played ds/bs

[balmy condor]

sims naturally pool

[sand sigil]

ok ok

[balmy condor]

so it's already accounted for

[sand sigil]

yeah idk everyone always says play vigor and it just clearly sims worse if u have bis gear so idk was confusing for me for a while

just gotta make sure i get all the bases covered going into 9.1 lol

it's sin tier baby

[hollow river]

9.1 may change things

[sand sigil]

yeah for sure

[hollow river]

but for the beginning i think we go with what we know now

until at least after heroic week i would assume

[balmy condor]

sub buffs tho

but you're probably staying necro for m+

[hollow river]

[balmy condor]

so that's kinda doomed

[hollow river]

and cleave fights

[sand sigil]

well if venth sub was like notably better on the last bosses or something i wouldn't mind

[balmy condor]

yeh

[dawn ivy]

is sub REALLY a potential though

[balmy condor]

sub venth is like 100 ahead in single target, and also wins against sin/law on 5+ target I think

[sand sigil]

but like idk the only true st fights are tarragrue and guardians

[balmy condor]

maybe 6 target

[hollow river]

against law?

[balmy condor]

but the cleave on sub

[sand sigil]

all the rest like 2/3t cleave or st + adds for like 10-20% of the fight

[hollow river]

oh shit

[balmy condor]

just blows

so hard

[hollow river]

yep

won't be required for raiding

i mean

[balmy condor]

sure it will

it's competitive

[hollow river]

won't be necessary

[balmy condor]

it just probably won't be the best option

[hollow river]

yeh

i misworded there

[cobalt pelican]

would see good play if you didn't need to commit in advance to play it smile

[sand sigil]

i mean if it's better execute than sin then u could definitely make an argument for it on the phylactery team on kt and sylvanas p3 but

idk i haven't heard anything abt sub being better st than sin execute

[balmy condor]

sin execute is stonks

not happening

[soft shale]

yea zold is really strong and also works with sbs

[hollow river]

whispyr

sub>outlaw aoe?

o.o

[balmy condor]

on higher target counts yeah

easily

[soft shale]

only on 6+ targets yea

[hollow river]

fuck yeah

[balmy condor]

is it 6?

even on 5?

[soft shale]

idk about 5

[hollow river]

it looked potential on 5

[soft shale]

seems dicey

[hollow river]

what does law do on 5?

[soft shale]

although with new dagger who knows

sub goes do 16% more dmg on its procs

[hollow river]

ryfie was doing 20k on 5

[sand sigil]

does sub 8 beat sin 8?

[balmy condor]

oh so much

not even a competition

[hollow river]

sub has no ramp up

[fleet anchor]

I think the only fight people regularly use EP+Vigor on right now is Sludgefist

[sand sigil]

i think sub would be sick in halls then

all the rest of the dungeons ud wanna outlaw probably

[soft shale]

yea well lets just say on tornado pulls you do around 40k dps

[fleet anchor]

And even then I'm not totally convinced that's not just kinda placebo lol

[soft shale]

for around like 10 secs

[hollow river]

halls..mists...DoS...

[sand sigil]

not mists

[cobalt pelican]

i use it on a lot but i won't argue it's for any reason other my ui half breaking when i play ds atm hehe

[soft shale]

the trick is just to keep track of fws and just move a lot

[sand sigil]

mists outlaw would destroy sub

[balmy condor]

idk I can see it, but it's kinda hard to justify

[soft shale]

like a crazy chickeen

[sand sigil]

dos only an argument if hakkar is so easy it doesn't matter

[soft shale]

mists i would pick sub just because of first boss

[sand sigil]

and u skip all of mechagon ofc

[soft shale]

but if that is not important nono

maybe on tyr weeks but even then

[sand sigil]

sin and sub gain additional value over outlaw w seasonal affix tho

[hollow river]

yeah i mean it might not be super viable is +22s and such

[sand sigil]

16% crit goes a long way on sub and sin

[hollow river]

outlaw uses crit too doesn't it

[soft shale]

who knows right now but it seems cool all specs have their dungeon more or less

[hollow river]

yup

[sand sigil]

i mean like disproportionate gains

[soft shale]

right now i only see sub 100% on hoa

[sand sigil]

outlaw just gains bte dam which doesn't even flurry properly

[hollow river]

gonna be nice being able to fiddle with sub without getting ejected from the +14

[fleet anchor]

Hard to know what exactly might be optimal

[soft shale]

but with 9.1 sin and sub are stonking

sadly im not into assa that much to know where it would pop off

[sand sigil]

honestly just halls or dos imo

[hollow river]

ToP and SoA for sure

[soft shale]

sub on DoS makes sense

[sand sigil]

soa has an argument if u have bad routing i guess

and go left

[hollow river]

i mean for sin

[sand sigil]

for sin yeah

[hollow river]

ye

[sand sigil]

but no top

that's outlaw bread and butter

[hollow river]

wut?

[sand sigil]

every pull like 4 targets

maybe sin on tyrannical top

[balmy condor]

yeh

[sand sigil]

also top is so annoying w no gouge

[hollow river]

idk what each spec is pulling in each dungeon atm so

[soft shale]

depends if bear tank continues being immortal

many dungeons are gonna get big as f pulls

but then you also will have cuck weeks for doing dungeons in general

[sand sigil]

yeah we only playing rogue in maybe 3 or 4 dungeons next patch

[soft shale]

rogue seems fine on HoA mists and what else

[sand sigil]

i mean

fine for a 26 sure

not fine for a 28

[soft shale]

you mean surv or dam

[sand sigil]

mostly dam

frost fire ele going to pump way more than any rogue spec

[soft shale]

that is sad then because sp and mage are only getting stronger

yea forgot ele too

[hollow river]

ranged meta

[soft shale]

well sub is also kind of not target capped but even then

earthquake is just so good apart from damage

and they also heal etc

rogue has blind and gouge if outlaw

and thats it

[gloomy knoll]

ok that's kind of what i've been operating on under now ty for confirming this i should've asked much sooner

@sand sigil doesn't plume proc disproportionately on classes that do less dam than those that do to somewhat ease out the damage disparity between specs

from my testing it seemed like it procced 24/7 365 for outlaw and almost not at all for the fire mages

same with venth paladins for instance they got almost nothing from it

[hollow river]

i don't see them tuning each anima power proportionate to each spec

[gloomy knoll]

i remember reading somewhere that, that was one of the points of plume

to help with the damage disparities

[hollow river]

hmm

[gloomy knoll]

testing seems to back this up as well but i haven't done it extensively

only like 3-4 keys

[cobalt pelican]

sounds very made up

[gloomy knoll]

i would hope not

that'd be a pog change

make more specs viable

end hpal domination

[cobalt pelican]

an affix that deals flat% dmg propping up your spec is barely 1 toenail above doing nothing

[hollow river]

rofl

[gloomy knoll]

i mean if you can't clear above a certain key lvl with say

rdruid for instance

[hollow river]

why wouldn't they just do more lazy aura buffs?

[gloomy knoll]

because you just lose 4k dps in the key

this would remediate that problem without the need for major balance changes

i hope i wasn't misled and this is actually a thing

[fleet anchor]

I thought plume was just straight RPPM?

[gloomy knoll]

it could be i might just be wrong

[fleet anchor]

When I last looked at the spell data it appeared to be

Like straight non-hasted vanilla RPPM

[cobalt pelican]

ya, just 4

[fleet anchor]

So shouldn't really matter what the spec is at all, other than odd generic multipliers like Celerity

or Guile Charm

[gloomy knoll]

huh

might've just been confirmation bias from people i knows testing then

sadge

[winged basin]

you think it would be worth to run double on use? I have a 226 Shadowgrasp and a 220 dreadfire, but I have been using Hateful chain 213 and shadowgrasp

feel like its gonna feel really rough lmfao

[soft shale]

if its sims more its k

[winged basin]

true

[sand sigil]

plume is shit now

nobody takes plume

[dawn ivy]

all my homies hate plume

[winged basin]

thank the lord, sims said I get to keep using chain shadowgrasp

no double on use

[gloomy knoll]

it's already nerfed? LOL that was quick

[balmy condor]

yeah

it's giga nerfed

ryfie was complaining about it too

[hollow river]

oh you didn't know that

it went from like 15-20% of your dps to like 2-3%

[gloomy knoll]

sadge

plume was fun

why blizzard always gotta ruin fun

necrotic revert plume nerfed deathspike gutted

[sand sigil]

ya now u just pick the 8% stat stick

[gloomy knoll]

all my homes for next season deterred just as soon as they arrived

*hopes

[hollow river]

:/

[balmy condor]

it's prideful but you get to choose stats instead of just getting them

[gloomy knoll]

[balmy condor]

the kind of iteration we like to see

[hollow river]

bring back the real mvp spell

[gloomy knoll]

at least sub aoe got buffed

i'd rather die than play kyrian

miss me with tht shit

[hollow river]

pvp sub rogues going back kyrian

[gloomy knoll]

good thing i don't care

[hollow river]

[gloomy knoll]

kyrian could be bis for every rogue spec not touching that shit covenant with a 10 foot pole lol

[balmy condor]

[gloomy knoll]

i'll reroll another class before i play kyrian

[hollow river]

[balmy condor]

are they actually

going kyrian

[hollow river]

yes

some are

[balmy condor]

that sounds not great

[hollow river]

for the leggo

[balmy condor]

what

[hollow river]

jep

[balmy condor]

the lego seems so bad in pvp tho

[hollow river]

well

since they got nerfed so hard in pvp

they think the easier special CP hit

with evis

[dawn ivy]

wouldnt venthyr/obedience be nuts burst for pvp

[hollow river]

will be better

[gloomy knoll]

imagine nerfing a bad spec

[balmy condor]

that's so fried

honestly

[hollow river]

jep

[gloomy knoll]

meanwhile dk got so many buffs i'm never stepping in another arena again

[hollow river]

well necro and venth for sub are kinda crap so is NF

its all crap tbh

[gloomy knoll]

venth is burst

[balmy condor]

fried pvp brains feelycrafting their way into kyrian jank

venth is great

what

venth damage is huge

[hollow river]

for pvp

[gloomy knoll]

obedience also gives hella vers

which is pog in pvp

[hollow river]

meh

[balmy condor]

venth will do more damage in pvp

than kyrian

and it's also burst

and easier to use

[drifting cloud]

I like turtles

[balmy condor]

and gives stats

like I can understand if they were like "oh but the kyrian pot"

sure

whatever

but for damage reasons?

lmao

no

[gloomy knoll]

me too did you see that like 100+ year old turtle they thought was extinct they found a lil while back

[hollow river]

🤷‍♂️

[gloomy knoll]

just like lying in a ditch on some island kek

*giant tortoise

[modern heart]

my spiritanimal

[urban grail]

if using CT this week, where do you put it in the opener using subterfuge/elaborate?

[balmy condor]

after shiv

[urban grail]

then go into mutilate/ envenoms

?

[balmy condor]

you would do like gar (snd if you have to), mut rup vend shiv mut+env spam, then CT after

[mortal pike]

How we feeling about assa bois?

[vestal wren]

good

[drifting cloud]

about the same as last week

[fallen arch]

Fucking great

[pallid hollow]

Venthyr still looking to be BiS for raids in 9.1? Currently trying to decide between rogue and monk for raiding. Really don’t want to play DK but if I don’t make a choice that’s what guilds going to ask me to do D:

[balmy condor]

If you’re gonna play sub venth is good

If you’re gonna play sin/outlaw, probably should go necro

[pallid hollow]

Yeah sin for raid outlaw for m+ is what I was feeling.

[balmy condor]

Necro for sure

[pallid hollow]

Played paladin this tier and while fun the numbers just aren’t there basically

Can get the same numbers from classes 15 ilv lower

[drifting cloud]

uhm

what

[brazen rampart]

[pallid hollow]

At 210 on my DK, ele sham and hunter I can get the same numbers or near enough as I get at 220/225 as paladin outside of last 3. Not tried other classes in raid that much but looking to swap as we already have 3 paladin mains (daft I know).

[drifting cloud]

I mean sure nothing wrong with rerolling but ret really isnt that bad

its still better than like half the melee specs

[pallid hollow]

Yeah just cba with the situation I had half of this tier with messing with conduits every other day and being able to only do m+ as prot on certain days as you ran out of conduit energy.

[sharp echo]

Would it be safe to start farming necro renown as of now?

[dawn ivy]

yes

[balmy condor]

Yep

[vestal wren]

having necro/venthyr on max renown is a good preperation

[torpid sparrow]

so i just noticed with the new socket i got doomhand on gloves and zoldyck on boots, i m fucked and got to recraft both? xD

[hollow escarp]

we still have some time to see if they change or adapt anything

and you will probably want a rank 5 legendary or even 6 in a few weeks after patch so they might implement something about it

if not, worst case scenario is that there is still time to farm soul ash to recraft everything

[forest delta]

maybe they give the option to account bound trade soul ash from other characters

[pallid hollow]

Literally in 9.1 in the same way you got packages of war resources in bfa

[mortal pike]

Are there any updated numbers from more recent 😮 ?

[balmy condor]

Probably yeh

[balmy condor]

Still missing a lot of implementation in sims

[dawn ivy]

isnt there a list of all the sim updates?

[balmy condor]

There’s a document

In #wow-general

But it’s not really updated that often

[final sky]

is it worth getting my lego now? (zoldyck) or wait until 9.1

[north basin]

how long would it take for 9/9 campaign completion for necro if i rerrol ?

[final sky]

i did it in 2 days as an ilvl 170

[pallid hollow]

3/4 hours

But depends on renown drops too

[north basin]

fine. so right now 90% of raid orientated players going or already necro?

[balmy condor]

Pretty much

[pallid hollow]

Campaign is 3/4 hours.

Spam heroics to 20 renown apparently then go campaign

[north basin]

ok so i will too, if its mistake at least everyone failed xD

[pallid hollow]

BiS for outlaw m+ and then decent for raid too as sin so can’t see the downside!

[north basin]

ye i just remember faye --> venthyr hype back then. but it didnt last long

[pallid hollow]

Flagellation just feels bad to@press

Same as sepsis

[north basin]

agree

hope blizz wont switch tides after first heroic week and give some enormous buff to some other cov,

[cobalt hemlock]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[forest delta]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/aDPQdLkq8YrwtWBy/#fight=last&type=damage-done here

[tame cypress]

SbS works with Assa Passives ? like mastery and VW

[quasi grotto]

So is necro the go to now for 9.1?

Is there any sims available yet

I normally play sub for m+ perhaps it's time I practice sin in m+

[teal bloom]

Mastery affects sbs but venomous wounds only works with garrote and rupture (and kidney shot if you are using internal bleeding)

Necro looks great but sims for covenants aren't ready yet as far as I know

[rustic thunder]

lmao the 235 legendary leggins go for 150k on my realm wtf

[rustic thunder]

isn't there a 9.1 specific catch up to 40 renown?

[north basin]

u just do content. lfr raids m+ etc. and u will gain it fast. thats all

[timid grotto]

is there any point staying venthyr for 9.1?

[strange python]

if u play sub

[timid grotto]

damn, is there any point on upgrading zoldyck to 235 with the new deathspike lego?

[lean coral]

what slot do you have it on

[timid grotto]

legs

only on 190 tho

[lean coral]

ash is easier to get alot of next patch

so you can make it if you want

most people are remaking their doomblades first afaik

and you dont get the deathspike leggo right away so you have time to get ash for when you do get it

[vocal karma]

Is it yet known when and how we are getting the deathspike leggo?

[lean coral]

renown reward

[timid grotto]

yeah im still waiting to get my stone legion shoulders before i remake doomblade

[lean coral]

i mean dont bother remaking till 9.1

gotta toss it on a cloak

[timid grotto]

you can craft it on cloak tho

[lean coral]

not till 9.1

[timid grotto]

oh they are adding slots or making it so u can craft any lego on any piece?

[lean coral]

its only craftable on gloves shoulders rn

cloak is being added as an option in 9.1

[timid grotto]

ok cool thx man

[ornate raptor]

Could venthyr be viable for sin in 9.1? Or is it so far necro all the way? I mean things could still change right?

[final sky]

should I get my Lego now or wait until 9.1

[tulip nacelle]

depends on what lego

doomblade will go on cloak when 9.1 comes for example

[final sky]

zoldyck

[tulip nacelle]

zoldyck should be fine on pants

[final sky]

but I don't even have a Lego rn and I'm doing around 3.6-4k average dps

[umbral rapids]

@balmy condor was it venthyr in 9.0.5 or are you guys already necro ?

[vestal wren]

venthyr was hyped at the start of 9.0.5

[umbral rapids]

yeah i didn't really stay up to date on sin stuff since then

[vestal wren]

but people got convinced that necro is better because its not significant behind on st while offering strong cleave/multi target

so now people assume that necro is the best choice

[umbral rapids]

you say "assume" because it's the wrong choice according to you or ?

or just "it depends"

[vestal wren]

i say assume because it highly depends on what content you do

[umbral rapids]

yeah thought so

[vestal wren]

and if you want to play multiple specs

i can go a bit more in detail, if you want

[umbral rapids]

ye i'm down i'm interested

i main outlaw i'm already necro, i was somewhat surprised to see that sin was necro as well

since sbs counts as a bleed i assume doomblade still does good stuff on it, along with mastery, energy regen etc

[indigo mulch]

It does not count towards energy regen.

[umbral rapids]

oh it doesn't ?

[indigo mulch]

Only rupture and garrote does that.

[umbral rapids]

oh ok

[ornate raptor]

I will see what i will do. Right now i am happy in venthyr still

[vestal wren]

venthyr is in pure single target the highest output for all 3 specs.

Subtlety benefits the most from it because it can get full efficiency from Flag and the new covenant legendary will give it another damage push. Outlaw and assassination both already have very strong legendary items and can't utilize flag to the same extend this means they mainly gain a slight boost from the covenant conduit.

Outlaw and Assassination can get a big damage boost in multi target and aoe due to how sbs works with BF/mastery and how well the additional cp gain synergizes with the spec.
Given that the potency conduit is the main power diffrence both of them are not significantly behind in pure single target (only ~100-200 dps) but gain more in cleave/aoe.
Subtlety on the other hand does not benefit a lot from the additional cp income from necrolord and necrolord
isn't giving significant uplifts in aoe outside of sustained cleave besides losing the damage gain from the legendary and conduit (~4-5% dps).

Kyrian could end up as a very strong pvp choice, and isn't terrible in raid but probably won't be played outside of pvp (and also only in pvp if it becomes meta)

[indigo mulch]

I mean, when you say that its just slightly behind in ST but overtakes in multi target scenarios. Dosent that mean based on how CN currently looks like that it would be better? Correct me if i'm wrong though. Overall necrolords just looks better than what venthyr does. Not to mention if your focus is raiding your most likley doing m+ aswell to gear even if your not pushing high keys.

Yes, you can do keys as any covenant, but if you want best of both worlds necro is the way to go, specially if you run outlaw as offspec in m+.
Personally i don't bother going outlaw for m+ anymore. I only do between 15 and 20 keys never anything higher. Venthyr is fine in those keys aswell. Necro does a bit more damage but you can still run venthyr without any issues as assassination in m+.

Or is that just community perception playing tricks on my eyes?

[vestal wren]

we talk about 9.1

so its not related to cn

[indigo mulch]

I mean there are way more multi targets fights than there are pure sustained single target.

[warm parcel]

Question is how much do you value damage to nonbosses

[vestal wren]

it depends

[warm parcel]

If the value is 0, any gain necro gets is also 0

[vestal wren]

having adds on a fight does not mean you want to do damage to them

[umbral rapids]

Thanks mate that makes sense

[indigo mulch]

No, thats true but you can "kinda" funnel a target as assassination.

[warm parcel]

you can do that regardless of your covenant, but yes

[vestal wren]

it comes down to where your raid team needs the damage, necrolord is the convenient pick because its "always good"
if its the best pick rly depends on the fight design

[warm parcel]

Necro absolutely is more flexible and nice to play

But ven still offers something different

[vestal wren]

^ this

[umbral rapids]

Itns potentially free cp for your prio target with sbs ?

[vestal wren]

the flexibility of necro is why everyone plays it

[indigo mulch]

Agreed.

[vestal wren]

it feels better to have options for other parts than feeling restricted by your choice

[umbral rapids]

Makes sense

[warm parcel]

Theres no extra cp to be had when sludge crashes into a pillar

Nor is there extra funnel to be had when you go down KT phyl

[umbral rapids]

I meant on non boss enemies

[warm parcel]

Youre just there with your spike vs flag

[indigo mulch]

Dosent that make it overall the best then? Or i'm i out swimming in the theorysea?

[umbral rapids]

Yeah rhat makes a lot of sense

[warm parcel]

again we go back

what do you value

do you want overall

[vestal wren]

also necrolod is gameplay wise very good, it boosts your action economy and somewhat makes the spec feel less "slow"

[warm parcel]

or are you there for your job

[umbral rapids]

Ok I just had no idea what sin played :p

[indigo mulch]

I mean everyone has a job in mythic.

[umbral rapids]

Thanks @vestal wren that was very nicely explained :) makes a lot of sense

[indigo mulch]

Fuu is bae.

[umbral rapids]

Fax

Don’t tell whispyr i said that

[indigo mulch]

He will never know.

[warm parcel]

everyone does have their job in M

[indigo mulch]

kekw

[umbral rapids]

:p

[warm parcel]

and if I were looking for a comp for KT I wouldnt want a necro rogue

Id much rather take ven for phyl

[dusk basalt]

doomblade, what stats do we craft? haste/crit

[warm parcel]

Cause it has flag necro doesnt

[vestal wren]

i mean if we strictly speak of funnel, subtlety esp. with tornado is probably hard to beat

[warm parcel]

if I want the adds to be killed upstairs, Ill just take a boomy and few destro locks

its their job, not the rogues

[indigo mulch]

How much ahead is venthyr on ST compared to Necro bois though?

[vestal wren]

i think its vital to have differences on opinions there

every raid team differs and you need to decide yourself what your raid team needs

[warm parcel]

it doesnt even have to be ahead

it offers a different profile

[indigo mulch]

True.

[vestal wren]

or you can discuss it with your officers and make them part of the process

[warm parcel]

you have 40 seconds to kill the shade

flag makes you pump

you get to dish out the needed burst when you want to

[modern heart]

well I am a big pumper

[vestal wren]

the burst potential of flag is def. higher

but its possible that kyrian beats it

thats why kyrian could be relevant in pvp

[dusk basalt]

do i craft doomblades on gloves with crit/haste?

[indigo mulch]

But if you want burst single target you don't really bring rogues do you?

[subtle kiln]

cloak in 9.1

[warm parcel]

Have you been in the phylactory on KT encounter

It very much suits rogue

[dusk basalt]

okay so i should just hold off till then?

[subtle kiln]

can you craft it on cloak now?

no

so hold off

[north basin]

just swapped to necro 10 mins ago, well on dummy it feels much better. u have this additional /once per 30 sec/ button which smooths out whole assa rotation u just press it and it gives cp, nice nice

[indigo mulch]

Its actually once per min. 😮

If you have gem.

[vestal wren]

oh yes, something worth mentioning is that we probably want to re-craft legendary items in 9.1 due to slots

[indigo mulch]

Cloakbois

I wish we could have gotten doom on ring though.

Its hard finding good rings 😢

[dusk basalt]

how about zoldycks for M+? is new slot best?

[indigo mulch]

still pants.