assassination

[limber lion]

Correct.

[bleak sky]

ya

[delicate cedar]

oki cool

[hollow river]

So

Has anyone else ever noticed their character do an animation for rupt or env.. but it does nothing and you still have the cp after the animation

[bleak sky]

you're probably getting blocked by the enemy

[hollow river]

Ok so it’s not like server lag or my computer o.o

[shell kettle]

Try standing behind your enemy 🙂

[hollow river]

I always am

Still happens

If you get blocked would you keep the CP?

[bleak sky]

you do!

[hollow river]

Ooh

Can you be blocked from behind the boss?

[unkempt ginkgo]

Sometimes I CT and I lose the CP but it's not on the boss even though I'm standing right beside it

[untold verge]

Omg lets farme ashes

[nimble tartan]

there are max targets that can get ct

[unkempt ginkgo]

Sire was the only target

[limber lion]

CT is pretty wonky and sometime it gets parried even if you're behind the target.

Unlucky.

[unkempt ginkgo]

Yea makes me sad sometimes

[soft shale]

yes ct is also not a cirlce but a weird rectangle

so sometimes even if you're beside the mob

it goes nah

[shell kettle]

On the subject of CT, how do you play it with doomblade? Is it just another bleed to keep ticking, or is there more nuance to it? Is it worth casting in single target still? 🤔

[soft shale]

f you

[limber lion]

Yes, we cast it in single target.

[balmy condor]

you cast CT single target out of shiv

[limber lion]

No we don't take it in single target.

[soft shale]

you keep it out of shiv

[shell kettle]

Alrighty cool thx

[shell kettle]

I mean i saw your pad on sire last week and i need a crack at that

[balmy condor]

CT on sire isn't really pad

tbh

[unkempt ginkgo]

Is it actually?

[balmy condor]

CT is a circle

[soft shale]

@unkempt ginkgo no just memeing

but you can get parried like someone said even if at the side

[balmy condor]

CT parries are super jank

[shell kettle]

Kinda depends right, if any of it is actually useful damage or not. Its probably less pad in boostings than it is in guildruns. Kinda just depends on your parties struggles

[balmy condor]

they happen incredibly rare

and I don't really understand how it works

[balmy condor]

it's higher p3 damage, and higher p2 damage

seems good to me

[shell kettle]

🤔

Well i guess we try

[limber lion]

Higher damage in every phase, sounds great to me.

[balmy condor]

yeah

[shell kettle]

🤑

[balmy condor]

even though probably have to stop dps in p1

but like

if it's more damage

in every phase

that's not really padding

that's just doing more damage

[shell kettle]

You've already won me over dont worry xd

I was just getting way too comfortable running poison bomb anyway

[umbral rapids]

whispyr i missed you

[soft shale]

depends on raid some people just said f it and phase p1 before third pizza slice now

or just after

getting a lot of people to 0 stacks

my guild is weak so we dont do it but seems lit

[balmy condor]

Hi cutie

[humble ginkgo]

sbs only when gemstone is active?

[balmy condor]

In single target yeah

You want to apply the dot

And then gemstone

[humble ginkgo]

So in st it wouldnt matter if im capped on sbs?

like by the time gemstone is up for the crit if im at 3/3 sbs

I feel like thats just a dps loss

[shy dust]

But it never happens

[sacred isle]

You will never be capped if you dump during gemstones

[shy dust]

The interval between gemstones is around a minute

[humble ginkgo]

ok didnt know that

dont really track it on outlaw

[shy dust]

You generally have 2 SBS

For each gemstone

[sacred isle]

But if you would overcap for some reason you send it

[humble ginkgo]

ok

[waxen harbor]

So for 9.1 still necro ? ^^

[humble ginkgo]

[sacred isle]

If you want

[waxen harbor]

venthyr looks good to

[sacred isle]

Nice things written in pins

[limber lion]

Yeah, very well written things

[waxen harbor]

yeah i saw it

[limber lion]

I wonder who wrote em

amazing

[sacred isle]

Amazing plays druid, don’t troll cev

[limber lion]

[balmy condor]

Weak I guess

[dire spoke]

lol

[limber lion]

Wtf

[dire spoke]

[limber lion]

Zem

[sacred isle]

Achievement Hunter amazing

[limber lion]

This is #assassination

This is not ot

[dire spoke]

oh shit

[limber lion]

[dire spoke]

https://tenor.com/view/meerkat-googly-eyes-what-wacky-silly-gif-7988958

[pale fossil]

You'll get a gemstone window in your opener, so you'll dump it all then, and by the time you get another gemstone window you won't have capped yet.

If something weird happens though, you send one when you cap so that you don't overcap. You should always have two to send during Gemstone; not three.

(Remember that you usually start your opener with SBS > SnD, so you'd only have two to send on opening Gemstone as well)

[limber lion]

Yeh, you should never run into a situation where you have to dump one sbs to avoid overcapping on an st encounter where you don't have resets.

[alpine latch]

Man Cev, it's nice comparing my logs to yours

I'm doing comparable damage to you when our item levels/kill times are similar

And I have room for improvement

[balmy condor]

Calling cev a shitter

[alpine latch]

lol, not at all

I didn't say I was beating him

I said comparable

Plus he was doing this 4 months ago and I'm doing it today 🙂

[pale fossil]

I'm the resident shitter excuse me

[balmy condor]

@limber lion out of all the shits, you’re the best

[alpine latch]

And yeah, clearly he smokes me in damage.

Comparable here is within like 150-250 DPS

Which is a big jump

[shy dust]

People not having BiS

[limber lion]

💩

[balmy condor]

Imagine 233 daggers

[limber lion]

patch drops in 2 weeks.

[plain thistle]

[limber lion]

got every item except pointyboys

[shy dust]

Imagine not having an infinite amount of 233s

I can delete one and send you a gif

[soft shale]

i have traded 2 slg shoulders

so far

[limber lion]

I saw the one where you deleted a sire dagger

[soft shale]

still dont have them

[shy dust]

[limber lion]

:') still haunts me.

[alpine latch]

I still have 197 shoulder and I'm 219 item level

[soft shale]

rae has big boi daggers

just do pvp man

[alpine latch]

I'm doing RBGs this weekend to farm the mount

[soft shale]

i still have those 220 from like first month

[alpine latch]

I got raid tonight

So hopefully heroic SLG shoulders ... Still never seen them drop

[soft shale]

wait can you get shoulders on a m+

[pale fossil]

I have 213 pvp boots still. I'm too bad at pvp to climb

And I haven't put any effort into learning tbh.

[alpine latch]

Vers/Mastery from m+

[pale fossil]

This is what I'm using too haha. 226 Vers/Mastery shoulders.

Not ideal.

[alpine latch]

Yeah, there are a few Vers shoulders, no haste from m+ that I remember

Man, I've gotta be fucking up my opener completely. I need to go over this again tonight before raid

Comparing me and Cev, our damage profiles are similar (he killed the boss a lot faster than me so I'm only looking at the damage pattern while the boss is alive), and he basically doubles my spike during bloodlust

[devout prism]

same buffs/trinkets?

[alpine latch]

Nope, but the damage spike is real

Cev is purple, obvi

I cast envenom 2 times less than him, and he does 55k more damage with his than me

I know item has some to do with it, but I fucked up my opener hardcore

I'm also using stones/agi pots, he's using phantom fire and shadowcore oil

[burnt star]

Is that profile with cev when he was venthyr?

Or is that a more recent one

[limber lion]

The Venth one is the only public one I have.

[alpine latch]

Yeah, he's venth on this one

This is his highest damage public pull

[burnt star]

So expect a big spike difference on opener

[sonic schooner]

hiding logs 😒

[alpine latch]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/compare/avwr7ZD3C2KHLJVp/zjHdg4Xp2T31an7b#fight=15,3&source=16,17&type=damage-done&start=3967627,378733&end=4167596,578702

[hollow river]

That’s a decent sized part of why it’s higher lolz

[alpine latch]

Feel free to tell me how shitty I am, lol

[burnt star]

Compare your opener with necrolord to see how u did

[devout prism]

looks like a great IQD proc too, which you aren't using

[burnt star]

U can filter rogue. Assa. Necrolord

[alpine latch]

I mean, I'm looking at it and I can see how bad I did on my opener, lol

But yeah

[pale fossil]

Yeah, IIRC Crit IQD's a huge deal for Venth Sin

[limber lion]

Not my choice :P

[pale fossil]

Cev doesn't want us to discover his super secret padding strats

[alpine latch]

Damn @limber lion, I'm embarassing you on uptimes man

80.08 compared to 79.98 on garrote

[pale fossil]

[alpine latch]

lol

Nevermind the fact that he did 2k more DPS and 300k more damage overall

It's all I got

[sonic schooner]

btw ceve quick question for my reclear on sludge. I ve inerva 226, dreadfire 220, iqd 220. I also have a 220 phial but i think double activable is better. Any idea on what combo would be the better? 🤔

[pale fossil]

Do you have others in your squad with the inerva trink?

[sand plume]

[sonic schooner]

we 2

we re*

[burnt star]

In the whole raid?

[sonic schooner]

and yea obviously if i sim it tells me inerva + phial but i m talking specifficaly about sludge which is different

yep

[sand plume]

True

[burnt star]

Ive seen phial do more damage. Then my 220 d.f

But we are 4 with inerva trinket

[sonic schooner]

most of the melees in my raid use stone generals trinket

[burnt star]

With 2.. im pretty sure d.f and inerva comes really close

[sonic schooner]

😒

[burnt star]

Well i told.people using d.f to switch to memory in my group

[sonic schooner]

in my mind it will be inerva + dreadfire, but maybe i m wrong and iqd is a real pop in this fight, should compare few logs to be sure 🤔

[limber lion]

Memory + DFV

[sonic schooner]

u rock

love ya <3

[limber lion]

[sonic schooner]

[balmy condor]

Actually not that important

[limber lion]

[sonic schooner]

i dont even know how i would use iqd in sludge 🤔

[balmy condor]

You would use on pull and pillar 4

[sonic schooner]

that was my guess, sounds not great

[alpine latch]

Don't worry, it's the only thing I beat you on and it's a fraction of a percent. lol

[shy dust]

Wym sounds not great

[limber lion]

It's pretty great as Venth

[shy dust]

Iqd slams on sludgefist

[gloomy knoll]

iqd is a fucking gigantic buff

and during a pillar

[shy dust]

Iqd slams in general

[gloomy knoll]

it's even better

lol

[shy dust]

You’re guaranteed two stat usages

[gloomy knoll]

thank god it's getting nerfed

[balmy condor]

Any believers?

[gloomy knoll]

i believe in iqd

not in 9.1 tho

[shy dust]

I’ve believed before it was common place

[gloomy knoll]

that shit got the fun detected bat

[balmy condor]

I wish it was a 2min

[limber lion]

Same

[sonic schooner]

it would be a no brainer

[shy dust]

Already is

Just be a venthyr

[plucky briar]

If you use 2 on use trinkets for sludge? What is the usage timer like for them?

[limber lion]

You just use each trinket on every other pillar.

Memory on pull, DFV on p1, memory on p2, dfv on p3, memory on p4, dfv before wall

[thorny rampart]

will you be able to craft doomblade on cloaks after 9.1?

or is that just a dashing recommendation on the pins

sorry if it was asked already lolol

[balmy condor]

Both

[timid talon]

should we be swapping to necro now? or waiting still

I kinda wanna catch up on renown but if venth is still top for st ill probably chill for now

[balmy condor]

Can do either

Venth will still be slightly ahead

I’m talking like 100 dps maybe

[timid talon]

Oh alright then i wont worry, thanks

[sonic schooner]

i think it was closer like 40-60dps in pure ST between venth and necro 🤔

but yea pure ST venthyr still ahead

[rustic thunder]

so rn we shouldn't even craft a leggo

[alpine latch]

You can craft Zoldyck

That goes on legs and isn't impacted at all

[timid talon]

cant we refund legendaries anyway in 9.1 or did i mishear that

or refarm ash with no cap, something to catch up

[rustic thunder]

we can't refund them for sure

[timid talon]

so even if you do craft now you can just rebuild it

[amber mountain]

I don't think there's a full refund, but there is a partial, and soul ash farming will be uncapped

[alpine latch]

I never heard them confirm we can refund them. They said "yeah that might be an issue" but then I never saw anything after that

[rustic thunder]

what's the partial refund?

[amber mountain]

I'm not 100% sure. But I think you get a partial of the soul ash back.

I can't see them giving the base item or missive's back without blowing up the economy

But I don't know

[hollow river]

They said they were looking into to implementing a method of refund I believe. But never said they would implement one.

[wanton cobalt]

correct, 9.1 doesnt have anything to refund soul ash... there was just mention from Ion in an interview that its something they will consider adding but I'm pretty sure he was clear it wasnt in the cards for 9.1

[limber lion]

They talk about a lot of stuff, shouldn't take everything they say as facts before we see them in the game.

[nimble tartan]

omfg the rogues i look up every tier didnt swap to necro yet bro venth stocks are still UP

[alpine latch]

Venthyr will still probably be slightly higher ST

50-100 DPS

[nimble tartan]

im only swappin when the oceanic rogue chads swap bro i trust them

[limber lion]

Good, saving the aoe parses for us stinky boys.

What a humble, loyal man.

[meager iron]

!sims

[prisma monolith]

Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html

[plain jewel]

Necro will be much better in cleave though right?

[meager iron]

yes

[shy dust]

it will be better yes

[nimble tartan]

its the ethical way

[plain jewel]

Heck. So rogues just be cycling thorough all the covenants lol

[frigid kestrel]

Anytime a second target pops up Necro wins

[limber lion]

Nah, Necro/Venth for Sin, Necro for Outlaw, Venth for Sub.

Honestly if you play sin and another spec, just go with the one that works better with the off-spec.

[winter vapor]

heroic Sire, Vendetta, phase 1 once, phase 2, once or twice? then twice in phase 3 right?

[limber lion]

Just Vendetta on cooldown.

[winter vapor]

cev first in once again

[frigid kestrel]

Ye I give up when he’s on a roll

I just wait for him to take 40 seconds to answer a question and then I type

[limber lion]

:')

[limber lion]

That's a good rule to follow, usually doing something else if I'm not answering.

[winter vapor]

❤️

[mighty hazel]

@limber lion bro for sire shaded sharpening with point agility or oil with phantom fire ?

[meager iron]

ik this might sound like a dumb question, just curious. can rogues where the quiver since its a back piece? or is it hunter only. ik it says hunter only on wowhead but i just want to confirm

[visual prairie]

i thought everyone could wear it

[shy dust]

hunter only

[meager iron]

ok tyty

[alpine latch]

We MIGHT be able to xmog it, but you can only loot it on a hunter

Assuming it's transmoggable

[meager iron]

wish u could use it but we just dont get the effect

bis stats, sadly have to put doomblade on back tho

😦

[limber lion]

Shaded sharpening with Agi.

That's fine.

[mighty hazel]

ty

[visual prairie]

wowhead says this.. " Dark Ranger's Quiver: Back which can be worn by characters of any class. Currently the unique effect may only be usable by Hunters."

is that wrong?

[limber lion]

No it's not.

It doesn't specify whether or not we can actually get the drop

Technically we might be able to equip it, but just not use the unique effect. Highly doubt we can actually get it as a drop.

[visual prairie]

they asked if we could "where" it and all said hunter only

[balmy condor]

usually stuff like that is equip only for the class

[visual prairie]

so wasn't sure if anyone knew for sure

[limber lion]

Pretty safe to assume

that we won't be getting it

and it's only for the hunters*

[slow oriole]

But it would be hilarious if another class could get it and then not trade it because of itemlvl

[sonic schooner]

[obsidian edge]

man can you imagine hunters reaction to a rogue getting it? back to TBC i guess

[visual prairie]

i remember hunter in our group taking my axes in ICC

i still get mad.

[shrewd night]

why is tbc any better? thats exactly the time where a rogue got the world first leggo bow from sunwell

[limber swallow]

wouldn't it be hilarious if it happened again in TBC: Classic?

[limber lion]

[obsidian edge]

to let them relive the moment , the greatness of it

[bleak sky]

God I've done goofed

I thought I'd have to "prove myself" to the necrolords before swapping covenants

now I'm a necrolord with 1 renown and raid on monday, no clue on how to play SBS

[limber lion]

Hah, only when swapping back to an old covenant.

I mean, you can get your renown up in 1-2 days

And you'll get it down with practice.

[bleak sky]

let's hope so Cev

[limber lion]

I wouldn't worry about it too much.

You can practice it in the raids whilst you're farming renown

[nimble tartan]

see u in heroic halls of atonement my friend

[bleak sky]

I'm the BIG DAM on P2 denny, so I'd better not slack

[limber lion]

Yeh, Necro is better for that anyways

So, actually a good change.

[strange python]

@balmy condor How to play assassination rogue

[limber lion]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[strange python]

Wow

Thanks

[bleak sky]

Do I have to complete the campaign to get the good soulbind or nah?

[hazy crater]

Yeah

[final star]

@limber lion hOW TO PLAY ASSASSINATION ROGUE

[gloomy knoll]

@balmy condor can i see the dagger sim for sylv dagger

[strange python]

https://tenor.com/view/i-know-im-getting-better-improving-getting-better-pinky-malinky-netflix-gif-16837038

[gloomy knoll]

will we still be using it or will we just use 226 weapons

what yall mean by it's bad

[limber lion]

[balmy condor]

not implemented afaik

[gloomy knoll]

wait this is way diff than the 2% 260 damage one

[balmy condor]

let me double check

[limber lion]

They did buff it.

[soft shale]

wait did they just triple it

[urban plover]

that's on normal

[soft shale]

lets gooo

[urban plover]

heroic is even more

[gloomy knoll]

oh they buffed it pog

[soft shale]

literal 300% buff

[hollow river]

Oh shit

[gloomy knoll]

oh snap

that looks poggies

[limber lion]

@warm parcel

[soft shale]

wait so that now is a lot of dam

[gloomy knoll]

ty supla

[warm parcel]

[gloomy knoll]

that looks big poggies

[hollow river]

Mythic daggies might stomp poggers

[warm parcel]

could it even be worth equipping now

[soft shale]

well guess someone is doing hc every week

[limber lion]

Yeh, looks pretty good

[gloomy knoll]

any1 know if

[soft shale]

they did a 400% buff

[gloomy knoll]

we're getting the upgrade tokens for the dagger

like hunter is for their bow

[soft shale]

no idea

[gloomy knoll]

those feat of strength things?

[hollow river]

Doubt it

[warm parcel]

I mean the daggers effect started at 10 dps

so we getting there

[limber lion]

actually good

maybe

hopefully.

[gloomy knoll]

[limber lion]

🤞

[soft shale]

it was busted for a while because it didnt list max stacks

but they backpedalled

[bleak sky]

is this worth not having stats?

[soft shale]

now its worth worth

[limber lion]

We don't know yet

[gloomy knoll]

hopefully

[limber lion]

We still need to wait for sims

[soft shale]

it was close before

[limber lion]

Did you sim it?

[hollow river]

Bout to be bRoKeN

[soft shale]

kind of hard because we dont know when you can get more than 1 stack per %

but someone did a one where each 25% gave 1 i think

[limber lion]

Then

Why are you saying it was close

[warm parcel]

presumably starts at 1 and sub25 is 4

[soft shale]

man you write fast XD just let me finish

[warm parcel]

which would make mean 7.5% chance

[limber lion]

If there are no sims

[gloomy knoll]

yea

i'd assume based on the wording it stacks to 1 at start and every 25% it can stack again

[limber lion]

Let's not feelcraft numbers and say something is good or bad

[gloomy knoll]

so 50-75 = 2 stacks

[limber lion]

Let's just give the sim wizards some time

[gloomy knoll]

25-50 = 3 stacks

[limber lion]

And then we'll know

[gloomy knoll]

0-25 = 4

would be my assumption

but yea lets give it time xd

[warm parcel]

quick maff makes this 90dps effect

still meh

[soft shale]

now will it be multiplicative or additive on using 2 daggers

[warm parcel]

Im on the dmg stacks train

so basic finisher would just have 15% chance to bomb boss for 3k dam

[visual prairie]

why stop at 2 daggers

[limber lion]

[soft shale]

mythic one seems quite crazy im curious how much vers was that boi running https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/486284970806083584/855553617348132874/607b9072dd73d09b0b06c966eb8105db.png

because if you play obedience and it crits

and if you have two

[warm parcel]

350 * 0.075 * 2032/ 300

[soft shale]

that is almost 10k damage proc

[warm parcel]

180dps

still just barely over sec stats worth of dps

idno

[soft shale]

i mean its good because we get further from stat dr

[warm parcel]

I mean

getting more agi also means raw gain from sec stats is more

so it balances out

if it can crit we can make that over 200 dps

then it should start being a clear pick on st at least

[soft shale]

if it can proc on aoe no cap

[limber lion]

Yeh for sure.

Pretty sure they want to make that the dominant choice

[soft shale]

obedience may gain some dozens of dps for assa too

[limber lion]

So I'm not exactly surprised that it'll pull ahead.

[soft shale]

im actually really happy because it goes so well with sub

as you get way more finishers

maybe even on outlaw

now the question is will that make deeper on assa better always now as assa?

[hollow river]

I want a big lengendary shuriken for sub and kunai for sin

[warm parcel]

sub would finish more true

and have the soulbind

[limber lion]

So the PK trait from BFA?

[warm parcel]

[limber lion]

meh

[warm parcel]

maybe sub rising

[soft shale]

wait maybe dashing is getting a lil more dps too with dagger same as obedience

extra finishers and extra vers

[nimble tartan]

sub tier baby

[hollow river]

Pk?

[nimble tartan]

finally

[thin path]

l pop in chat and see sub mention? what's goin on? ^^

[balmy condor]

??

[limber lion]

wat

[soft shale]

more vers=proc does more damage

more energy=more finishers

[limber lion]

Nothign special, dagger is doing better now.

[soft shale]

i dont expect nothing like 100 dps but 20 or so may be there

[thin path]

only for sub or for sin too?

[soft shale]

both

[thin path]

sweet

[balmy condor]

but like

[limber lion]

where do we get more energy from

like

[soft shale]

poison crits

[limber lion]

it has a damage proc

it doesn't give us more energy

or combo points

[balmy condor]

....

[limber lion]

wat

Do you not know how Venomous Wounds work

Also, that's shadow damage

[soft shale]

read what i wrote man

[limber lion]

that's not a poison

or a bleed

[hollow river]

Kekw

[balmy condor]

okay hold on

[soft shale]

i was talking dashing with the dagger

not dagger alone

[balmy condor]

dashing with the dagger... is better because what

[limber lion]

But how do they work together

[soft shale]

more energy more cps more finishers

[warm parcel]

more procs

[soft shale]

more chances of procs but still something

[limber lion]

Ah, I see what you mean now

You get more energy from dashing, which results in more finishers and more damage from dagger

yeyeye

[soft shale]

like i say nothing crazy like sbs critting

but getting some from here some from there

same as obedience more vers more damage when it procs

[balmy condor]

yeah idk

[indigo mulch]

I'm actually sad if that dagger is as bad as you guys make it out to be D:

[limber lion]

it was just very oddly put

but idk

[balmy condor]

maybe with dashing that close to doom

could be a thing perhaps maybe slightly

[soft shale]

like good thing we have math and maybe dashing does not even gain 20 or so dps

[limber lion]

Actually a good shout

thinking about it

[soft shale]

but hey you take what you get

also profile on new tier seems that we got a lot of free crit from items

[hollow river]

Could make for a more interesting playstyle

[thorny pond]

Then you have a dagger that isn’t great for m+ potentially

[soft shale]

what do you mean

that proc is not capped on aoe

its better than some haste on a stick

[thorny pond]

Oh someone said it was earlier

[indigo mulch]

There is so much haste/crit on sanctum gear tbh D:

[limber lion]

But yeaaaaaah a lot of interesting stuff

[soft shale]

dont worry necro has good binds that do not dr

[thorny pond]

Can’t wait

[soft shale]

not unlike venth

[indigo mulch]

Necro has good binds? D: I feel like necro is pretty meh

[limber lion]

Necro is bis

wat

[soft shale]

wtf

just read what heirmir does

and think

THINK

you get like 1k mastery on your opener with ct

[indigo mulch]

No i know what gem does. Its good don't get me wrong. I was refering to the new ones.

the 60 one. D:

[soft shale]

you can even stagger it on mobs

to get the shit rolling

[warm parcel]

also in case any of you cares

its never gonna drop

its amanthul 2.0

[soft shale]

also good thing for rogues in general this trinket exists https://ptr.wowhead.com/item=186429/decanter-of-endless-howling?bonus=6805

[limber lion]

Yeh, and we cannot actually get the quiver either

that someone asked about

[balmy condor]

is the dagger testable at all

[warm parcel]

no

unless you got it to drop

[limber lion]

we can't get it from any vendor

we can't even get all 5 domination items from vendors

[timid talon]

What a shame

[limber lion]

just helm/chest/shoulders

[dawn sinew]

blizz is ridonkulous

[timid talon]

you think they'd know better

[gloomy knoll]

is the dagger like that too?

or just bow

[soft shale]

helm is super good stats tho

[warm parcel]

only bows orange

[gloomy knoll]

LOL

get fucked hunters

[soft shale]

yea bow is going to be aman thul

ahahaha

[timid talon]

The bow is upgradeable too, so like you'll get it eventually either way?

[soft shale]

only 1 in my guild got it

after like 30 kills

[dawn sinew]

here play the ptr. and guess whats suppossed to be, and by the end of the expansion we'll get it right then delete it all and then back to azzeroth!

[indigo mulch]

But they get stats on their max level item atleast :c

[white jetty]

i've been following the ravenholdt rotation guide for sin, where exactly should one use SBS?

[balmy condor]

on pull for the dot

then during gemstone

(if we're talking single target)

[white jetty]

yeah during ST

if it were aoe how'd it change?

[limber lion]

You just apply it to everything around you that doesn't have the dot yet.

[balmy condor]

yeah

[limber lion]

Then you chill and wait for Gemstone's again

[balmy condor]

dot/sniping resets

always takes priority

[white jetty]

nice nice thanks

[limber lion]

using sbs preemptively not to cap after a reset

[azure bronze]

They buffed the sylvanas dagger

[limber lion]

Yes they did :)

[azure bronze]

Ah I missed the previous post

I am a slowpoke

[modest jasper]

At about 14 finishers/minute assuming 5cp/finisher we should get about 2.1 proccs/minute which means at max stacks around 16.8k dmg or around 280 dps.

That's quite okay I guess.

[soft shale]

it can crit

or well we hope it can crit

[modest jasper]

That makes it a bit better :-)

[limber lion]

Yeh, it's pretty interesting.

But again

[modest jasper]

But also increases variance.

[limber lion]

We'll just have to wait and see.

[modest jasper]

12-18%/finisher is a decent chance I guess.

[limber lion]

Speculation is fine and fun

But often also incorrect.

[modest jasper]

Oh ye, for sure.

[warm parcel]

You dont get 14 5cp finishers a min tho

[modest jasper]

Probably not

I just guesstimated a random number to get an idea of the order of magnitude we are talking

[warm parcel]

No need to guess when sim exists

[burnt star]

Ya. Thats 1 5cp finisher per 4.29 sec

So 2 gcd to get 5 cp

[limber lion]

I just find it easier to just chill and let the sim magicians do their work

Instead of trying to napkin math it out

[hollow river]

We often finish on 4

[soft shale]

chances are you will play deeper even as necro or is it behind vigor

[hollow river]

And running deeper it’s less finishers at 5 and 6

[delicate cedar]

We dont get soulash from twisting corridors right?

[soft shale]

no

[limber lion]

We don't have sims yet xddddddddddddddddddddddd

[delicate cedar]

ok

[limber lion]

not sure how many times

we have to say it

we don't know

anything

as you saw

the dagger just got changed

[soft shale]

yes i know something

[limber lion]

10 minutes ago

[modest jasper]

I wasn't trying to math it out, I just wanted to get a feeling for the order of magnitude as I mentioned... Be it 10s 100s or 1000s of dps. That's all :P

[soft shale]

you wont play subterfuge on st

[limber lion]

the dom gems are not implemented

[soft shale]

or dark shadow ever

[limber lion]

there's a lot of stuff

[burnt star]

The dagger will disapear in 10.min

[limber lion]

in the air

[soft shale]

praise me

[hollow river]

We need spec speculation channels Cev

[limber lion]

You can use Alter Time's channels for that

[warm parcel]

thats called wowhead comment section

[limber lion]

it's a mess anyways

[hollow river]

[burnt star]

They still nerfing m+ affix too

I seriously hope we get 1 for spiteful...

[nimble tartan]

i love speculation its so fun seeing peoples ideas

[modern heart]

but wait... hear me out here.

it applied Banshee's blight, Banshee's Blight stacks up to 4, what IF ITS 3%chance per combo point spend PER Banshee's blight. AKA 4 stacks being 12% per combo point spend

[limber lion]

[nimble tartan]

heres one…hidden blades flagellation versatility so when u max vers u use hidden blade stacks and its bis single target talent

[warm parcel]

it doesnt matter if its proc chance or dmg that stacks

[nimble tartan]

[warm parcel]

it is the same outcome

[nimble tartan]

hidden blades obedience

[final star]

omr going full

[hollow river]

Cev gonna have a conniption in the chat

[limber lion]

stahp

[burnt star]

9.1 state being the same as 9.0

[limber lion]

[nimble tartan]

hidden blades obedience max vers consume hb stacks

[burnt star]

Release with so many bugg

[nimble tartan]

thats better than pb forsure!!!

[burnt star]

Shit not done

[final star]

omr

how do you sit down

how do you do it

[nimble tartan]

depends

[final star]

with balls that big

[modern heart]

but 60% -72% chance sounds so much nicer to me

[nimble tartan]

⛹️‍♂️

[hollow river]

[warm parcel]

given they increased the dmg, proc chance stacking makes more sense

[burnt star]

Look. They just reverted the change to necrotic done few days ago!

[warm parcel]

getting a random 20k+ shadow damage in pvp aint too fun

:)

[hollow river]

Wut

They nerfed bolstering and raging too oh wow

[limber lion]

Good.

[soft shale]

dont worry getting a 7k gushing wound dot from double fist monks will help keep the rage away from rogues

[strange python]

pins say craft doomblade on cloak but doomblade is only hands/shoulders?

[soft shale]

next patch

[limber lion]

Cloak slot unlocks next patch, but anything can happen.

Who knows, maybe we play something else.

[strange python]

[warm parcel]

like sub

😏

[fleet anchor]

I would love to see logs of the dagger

[strange python]

rogue bench squad again is thats whats goin on here?

[fleet anchor]

If anyone has any

[warm parcel]

I dont think anyone killed sylvanas lol

[nimble tartan]

sub bis start of tier again baby

[limber lion]

Yeah, no one has the dagger

[nimble tartan]

just like every tier

[limber lion]

And you can't get it from a vendor or anything

[modern heart]

well ill gladly wait untill wEak has made another guide for me to follow

[warm parcel]

bigbrain move

reroll warlock

:D

[final star]

that's the smallest brain move I've ever read

could have said any other spec

[modern heart]

well , that is my 2nd confirmed char

[limber lion]

Imagine fotm hopping

And not just dedicating yourself to a spec

Ew

[modern heart]

i've been unholy dk this tier

[final star]

rogue gang

[limber lion]

Diehard Assa gamers only here.

[south geode]

How is assassas aoe? How do they/ will they hold up in M+

[limber lion]

Fotm 🚪 👈

[limber lion]

It's decent, but it lags behind both Outlaw and Sub in 9.1

Currently it's quite similar to Outlaw in output.

Some even prefer playing Sin in some dungeons instead of Outlaw.

But Outlaw just has much more utility.

[south geode]

Dang I gotcba

[final star]

Outlaw also has the advantage of blade flurry SBS

[limber lion]

Uhm

That doesn't really do anything

but damage

[strange python]

is there alot of cleave fights in sanctum? im tryin to decide whether i should stay venthyr or get back on the necro train

[limber lion]

it's not a great tool Outlaw uses

FYI, the Deathspike legendary is bad for Outlaw now after the nerf.

[oak sky]

so i saw on wowhead that it says shiv is an enrage dispel now, does this mean we can play crippling but still have it?

[limber lion]

Appears so.

[thin path]

l am glad necro gets some attention, was there the whole time and hope to stay x3

[limber lion]

Quite a few yeah.

[pale fossil]

Oh wow. Are we about to just use the same legos as 9.0 but in different slots?

[limber lion]

Probably, but nothing is certain yet.

[oak sky]

thats a cool qol

[pale fossil]

Deathspike was going to be mad fun.

[oak sky]

maybe we arent getting smoke bomb because blizz wants a more original idea than another DR cd on a dps

[warm parcel]

seems so

cool imo

[final star]

Yes, and I feel like that's the sole reason outlaw is further ahead in dungeons

damage-wise

[thin path]

oh l like that shiv enrage dispel, sweet

[final star]

Ooo so shiv is always enrage removal now

that's pog

[pale fossil]

I don't think it is. Acrobatic Strikes is a fairly big deal, and the damage profile's a bit different in meaningful ways.

[burnt star]

Well outlaw has gouge wich is an insane interupt

On spell that cant be int

[pale fossil]

Outlaw's damage doesn't ramp, it's more immediate, and you can effectively do ST damage while cleaving instead of splitting your attention more.

And yeah, Gouge is great.

[final star]

yupp

[burnt star]

Dont need to waste cp on kidney shot

[limber lion]

It's really not.

[cerulean nest]

people are too deep in the rut to realize sin is essentially just as viable

[final star]

Who said it wasn't

[cerulean nest]

especially with covenant stuff

[final star]

[nimble tartan]

[bitter grotto]

Is there any information on what rogue spec will be the best for 9.1?

[limber lion]

I don't even know

what is a meme

and what is not

anymore

[limber lion]

Sims are not finished yet, we're still working on it.

[bitter grotto]

Okay nice

[pale fossil]

Work faster.

[bitter canyon]

^

[hollow river]

It’s all a meme Cev

[limber lion]

Not exactly getting paid for anything

We're chillin'

Whispyr doing mega work

[balmy condor]

yeah cev

[limber lion]

for free

[balmy condor]

where's my implementation

[limber lion]

imagine

[balmy condor]

do the sims cev

[pale fossil]

If I don't get a finished sim in the next 15 minutes you won't see a dime from me.

[nimble tartan]

guys lets all calm down im working on the hidden blades flagellation obedience sims sin rogue

[limber lion]

yeh it's all me brother

[warm parcel]

cev why you didnt implement the dagger in sim yet

cmon man

[balmy condor]

pay me

[warm parcel]

its been 30 mins

[limber lion]

ik right

need to work harder

and faster

[pale fossil]

Venmo

[sonic schooner]

force that shit

[final star]

give me ur sort code and acc number, I'll transfer it right this second

[limber swallow]

what is this subtlety nonsense, first podcasts and now sims.....

[limber lion]

But yeh, it's Koji/Mystler/Whisp doing most (if not) all work regarding the sims

But can't do much without the actual simc implementations

[hollow river]

[forest delta]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/7nNTjtRZxJFa9PKL/#fight=last&type=damage-done

help me

[warm parcel]

okay so the shiv change

[winged basin]

is opener with DS the same?

[warm parcel]

if they make it work on boss enemies

we actually got a raid cd just now

cause thats 30% as slow

[limber lion]

I'll take a look in a bit.

[limber lion]

Yes, but you just build to 5-6 combo points instead.

[hollow river]

Yes just finish with max or -1 Combo points and if running blindside you ambush with procs

[shrewd night]

[limber lion]

[limber lion]

Do you have any other logs than Sire logs? Sire logs are a bit of a pain to review

I'll do it, but it's gonna be difficult to pinpoint stuff.

[forest delta]

No but I'll make logs on other fights tonight

[tall forge]

In 9.1 is doomblade still looking like the best for ST?

[forest delta]

I just want to see what I can improve at this point, its like the 2nd time playing assa

[hollow river]

[limber lion]

Yeah fair enough

I'd appreciate it if you got some logs from single target bosses, like Hungering Destroyer

It's much easier to pinpoint rotational mistakes on a patchwork-esque fight

[forest delta]

I'll log one and I'll send it again, thanks

[limber lion]

Currently yeh, but not yet.

[limber lion]

For sure. :)

[winged basin]

I am wondering if 23% is too low for DS, feels really clunky

[limber lion]

You just have to sim it.

Getting more haste will not likely make a difference in how it feels to play tbh

[winged basin]

it sims higher, practicing it in heroic

[limber lion]

It's more of a placebo thing.

[hollow river]

Most run less than 23 with DS and still sims higher

[limber lion]

Yep.

[winged basin]

probably just need to get used to it, havent ran DS since BFA

[hollow river]

I run like 15-16 and use it

[simple rivet]

Can anyone shed some light about how attack power scales with daggers? Somebody said it was changed to 85% to 460% with the latest PTR build. Not sure what this means exactly, but it sounds really good?

[winged basin]

was running vigor and getting too comfy all xpac

[limber lion]

Attack power is basically just agility.

[hollow river]

Probably the sylvanas dagger change

[limber lion]

The attack power wasn't changed on the Sylvanas dagger

Or at least the main portion of it

[hollow river]

The proc was buffed

[limber lion]

Just the unique effect was.

[limber lion]

Vigor is honestly fine, especially if it's only like a 30dps decrease.

[simple rivet]

is that what this is?

[limber lion]

I have no clue what I'm looking at, maybe our giga-brain @balmy condor does

[warm parcel]

it is a queried spell_effect

[soft shale]

it means that base got buffed and scaling from ap

so as you get more gear the damage will also go up and by quite a bit from the looks of it

[balmy condor]

yeah

that's a spell effect

[soft shale]

trinkets like gland and hellscream may see gains if we have the legendary daggers equipped

also celestial stonks

[simple rivet]

ah, so just improved scaling?

[soft shale]

and also base

[simple rivet]

for ALL daggers? or strictly the sylv daggers

[soft shale]

that spell is only on the daggers

[simple rivet]

got ya

[warm parcel]

It doesnt seem like an ap proc tho

Just a flat one

[soft shale]

easy to check pop a badge on ptr anyone

and see if it changes

[cold spoke]

anyone also kinda wants to eat fried chicken right now

[winged basin]

yeah true true true, I am just trying to min max and get better. swapping back to my rogue now that we have too many mages, and it feels fuckin GOOOOOOOOOOOD. stomping 225s at 218

[limber lion]

Love to see it.

:')

[winged basin]

I started getting really good last xpac then swapped to mage for whatever reason

got 7/10 m and went nah, we playin rogue next tier

plus I cant sit in the best class hall as a mage ecks dee

[cold spoke]

last xpac, class hall

[simple rivet]

i've played 99.9% outlaw this expac, with the exception of mythic sludge prog

excited to get back to full time sin

[winged basin]

oooooh

I am thinking about going necro for next tier...

just feels right

but the venth pump..

[limber lion]

Glad to have ya back

[limber lion]

... is not really that much higher than on Necrolord.

Yeah you're right.

[winged basin]

I knowwww I knowwwww, and theres a lot of cleave next tier it looks like too

lots of little bs adds

and bonespike leggo looks SO fun

[soft shale]

think about the fun you will have playing mfd too

[ornate dawn]

Fuck adds you tunnel that boss like a Chad sin rogue should 😂

[winged basin]

ahhhhhhahahahaha, thats one thing I never practiced

MFD

I am doggie with that

I have the mouseover macro but my brain just doesnt connect the dots

[soft shale]

it is fucky as sin problem is if you fuck up it has 60 secs cd

[winged basin]

I just cant use it optimally

cause am 🐒

[soft shale]

no one bothers to use it and some mobs bug out and dont reset sbs or mfd

thug life

[limber lion]

Sure does, but it also looks pretty bad numerically. But let's wait for sims, maybe it'll be nuts

That would be fun

[dawn ivy]

so what, is the dagger going to be good now?

[cold spoke]

i've heard it's nuts

[winged basin]

I know it was strong looking pre nerf, still dont understand how fire mages are gonna go from 78k on aoe to 62k, but rogue aoe isnt allowed to be good

[cold spoke]

im happy that cloak is best legendary slot because cloak icon looks kinda pog

[soft shale]

the names on cloaks are also the best

with names like final curtain

[limber lion]

Looks pretty great honestly, but we'll have to wait and see.

[ornate dawn]

Such a fkin pain in the arse crafting new ones tho I’ve got about 7 different leggo variants already, let us bloody reforge them I say

[limber lion]

Tell that to Blizzard.

:')

[limber lion]

Yeah, who knows.

It's a sad world for us shadow boys

[soft shale]

new dagger looks for for aoe

if it can multiproc

[pale fossil]

Yeah agreed. I've got a 210 Finality, 210 MA, 235 Celerity, 235 Zold, and 235 DB.

Some of that's my own indecisiveness, but not ideal lmao

[hollow river]

reforge at least once a week tbh

for the low low cost of 2k stygia

[cold spoke]

tbf with the rate of raid drops you probably wont need to recraft for next 4 months

inb4 i loot gloves first and get punished

[winged basin]

yo

do you save Venth ability for vendetta window?

[cold spoke]

depends

[winged basin]

on?

[limber lion]

Generally just press it on cooldown.

[winged basin]

figured

[cold spoke]

if it gonna cost you a cast

[limber lion]

You can try to sync the last cast, as long as you don't miss a cast.

[cold spoke]

if you have 1 cast each of vend and flag, you save

[winged basin]

wym miss a cast? sorry brain smol

[cold spoke]

holding on too much

[limber lion]

Okay

[cold spoke]

so it costs you an usage

[limber lion]

Fight lasts for 5 minutes

You sync it with Vendetta, so on pull, 2 minutes and 4 minutes

[winged basin]

OH like so casting it twice instead of 3 times

[limber lion]

So you get 3 uses of Flag

But instead of syncing, you use it on cooldown

on pull, 1.5, 3 and 4.5

And you get 4 uses

[winged basin]

that makes a lot more sense

thanks for explaining it to me, have trouble grasping things sometimes

[limber lion]

Syncing major abilities that have different cooldowns is rarely worth it

[cold spoke]

except kingsbane

[limber lion]

It's usually better to just slam everything on cd, just to make sure that you don't miss out on a cast.

[cold spoke]

you save that for 1min vendetta

[limber lion]

No worries mate :p

[cold spoke]

i need a help from fellow necrolords

[limber lion]

What's up?

[cold spoke]

so i am here

[limber lion]

Sure

[cold spoke]

but the dude doesnt have any quests

toughts?

[limber lion]

Reload?

Relog

Try it all out.

[cold spoke]

i have

[limber lion]

Welp, idk.

There's not multiple layers on top.

[cold spoke]

yee been thinking maybe there is some secret level

[limber lion]

Nah there isn't.

The necro sanctum is very boring and plain

[dry void]

if you just swapped cov then its overlapped by an another daily

you can pick it tomorrow unless it runs out

[cold spoke]

might be the case

thank you kind sir

[fallow glacier]

I just came back to retail after an extended TBC break, and have switched to Necrolord from Venthyr, I had the opener/rotation fine for venthyr, but my small brain can't handle necrolord

[limber lion]

The rotation is very, very simple for Necrolord.

You open with SBS as your first gcd

Then you dump all charges during Gemstone windows.

You get a weak aura for it

[pale fossil]

It's organized nicely, though, with the exception of the training dummies.

[limber lion]

I use this one personally:
http://wago.io/MarrowedGemstone

When that lights up pink

you just press your sbs button multiple times

(following the normal generator/finisher rules)

[fallow glacier]

Hmmm, ok

Do i care about getting SBS in vendetta?

[limber lion]

Yeh, it's pretty accessible.

[limber lion]

No

You always use them during Gemstone windows.

[balmy condor]

@limber lion you gotta split your answers in half to get more messages

[cold spoke]

what makes gemstone so worth it

is it crit alone?

[fallow glacier]

Ok, thanks

[balmy condor]

You’ll never be big like that

[balmy condor]

Yes

18% crit is quite a large amount

[cold spoke]

does it mean when my mutilate in master assassin gets fucked like i do env mut and it gives me 2cp

[pale fossil]

I hate the weird mirror in the venthyr sanctum with a passion

[cold spoke]

it's better to do sbs instead of another mutilate

[limber lion]

It's okay, I'm not in a rush. :')

[winged basin]

hi dad, havent talked to you in awhile

[balmy condor]

Hello son

[balmy condor]

No

[limber lion]

Me too, but to be honest the second floor was pretty useless, so I never went there.

[pale fossil]

Sometimes one of the Callings is in there

[balmy condor]

We want to use sbs during gemstone, but not during MA

[cold spoke]

ok so cp generation wins in this scenario still, fairs

[pale fossil]

It's not worth saving Sepsis for a pillar, is it?

[gusty mirage]

What’s a sepsis

Or death

[limber lion]

Yes it is.

[pale fossil]

I swapped to Night Fae to finish the garden for the mounts and I miss my SBS

[limber lion]

You save all major cooldowns for pillars.

Including Sepsis, Vendetta, Vanish, Shiv, Echoing Reprimand, Flagellation, SBS charges

[pale fossil]

Wow, I didn't think Sepsis would even be considered a major CD

[fluid eagle]

Hi yall, I know it doesnt really matter anymore but I have been really struggling to do well on Mythic Sire, my guild has me hold dps in P1 so I don't expect to do amazing but I don't think that is an excuse not to atleast get a blue parse. I've dug through my logs and know some of my issues but I was wondering if someone would be willing to look through a log and tell me what I am doing wrong and give me some advice on how to improve at it?

[limber lion]

Sludge is all about maximizing those windows

[limber lion]

Wut

You get like a thousand mastery from pressing it

[gusty mirage]

[limber lion]

It increases your Envenom and dot damage by a ton during the window

[pale fossil]

Lol I had NO idea

[limber lion]

(Assuming you play Niya)

I hope you do

Please say you do.

[limber lion]

Blue parse

as in

[pale fossil]

Ofc I do lmao

[limber lion]

a blue wipe parse?

[fluid eagle]

no

[limber lion]

Or an actual kill?

[fluid eagle]

like a kill

[limber lion]

Ah

See, p1 is not really that important for parsing on Sire

[fluid eagle]

ive killed if 4 times and havent seen much improvement

[limber lion]

It's all about maximizing P2 damage.