assassination

[limber lion]

Not sure why everyone hates outlaw and wants combat to return

Like surely they reworked combat because it was bad.

[bronze belfry]

Its the same thing lol

More or less anyway

[limber lion]

That's what I said as well, but no one apparently agrees.

Outlaw is just more heavy on the pirate theme

[wide hawk]

They reworked it because they wanted to give Rogues an extra 'class fantasy' type in Legion - I think it worked quite well, but it's still boring.

[alpine latch]

Outlaw is just Combat with 2-3 new abilites and 2-3 re-named abilities

[misty zenith]

Actually i stopped playing rogue in Cata, because i got shipped out for army. Returned to rogue in Legion first, but wasn't able to play it much. So full on the rogue for Shadowlands now

[alpine latch]

Anyone who wants "combat to return" is under the impression it ever really left in the first place, which is a bit weird

[balmy condor]

you take that back

combat was good

combat was fun

[alpine latch]

Combat/Outlaw is just a different take on warriors, honestly

[limber lion]

The only memory I have of combat was in Cataclysm where you didn't do anything else but keep SnD up and your melee/poisons did all the damage.

[balmy condor]

wod combat

[alpine latch]

More of the assassin-based Warrior than full blown assassin

[balmy condor]

holding revealing strike

[misty zenith]

I had fond memories of cata, with that quests for the daggers

[wide hawk]

your mind found a way to blank out the spine of deathwing encounter then

[alpine latch]

lol

[limber lion]

Definitely not.

[misty zenith]

Exactly, didnt see it mate. I was in the desert then

[limber lion]

Spine is in the running for being the worst boss in the entire game.

[misty zenith]

Its even bad for xmog

[wide hawk]

and farming mounts....

: [

[fallen arch]

Not even close to any other fight if you ask me

[azure bronze]

Blast Furnace in BRF was pretty tedious as well

[misty zenith]

Is it normal that during the ST opener, i need to wait for energy for Garrote, target dummy though. So Mute - SnD - Mute - Wait for Garrote - Garrote - Flag/Vend - Rupt

[stoic needle]

Yes

[vestal wren]

combat was boring

[vapid nimbus]

Hi Guys, are BiS strictly relative to our current build and obtainable by simulating ourselves, or are there items that we all want to get in 9.05?

[balmy condor]

[limber lion]

This is one of the reasons a lot of people tend to like Vigor more. If you can't get over with having to wait for energy before garrote, you might do better with Vigor.

[balmy condor]

aside from phial and most drops from mythic slg/sire, not really

[limber lion]

They're very close in output, especially on Necro.

[vapid nimbus]

Sweet! I just got my 226 Phial Tuesday

[misty zenith]

@limber lion Thanks mate, yea there is quite a mix of Vig and Strategem

Not gonna lie, i look at your logs trying to learn from it

[balmy condor]

[vapid nimbus]

Also, do we switch to Zoldyck whenever we switch to CT in Castle Nathria? Or are there instances where we switch to CT, but keep Doomblade and vise versa?

[limber lion]

[balmy condor]

we switch for sun king and slg

also can for sire p3 specifically

[limber lion]

Yes, CT is already better in 2T but Doomblade is our best legendary in 1-2T

Meaning that on Huntsman you would play Doomblade and CT.

[balmy condor]

yeh

[misty zenith]

Huntsman is fun fight as assa rogue

[limber lion]

Huntsman is a fun fight.

[misty zenith]

I get the liberty of just tunneling the boss and the adds

[limber lion]

It's not Sire, but it's up there.

[misty zenith]

Since soaking with Cloak doesnt always work

[limber lion]

A very simple 2 target fight always works well on sin.

[balmy condor]

I would like huntsman more if mut spamming wasn't a thing

[limber lion]

Tbh that's not even where most of the damage comes from

[balmy condor]

yeah

but it's still dumb

[spice spire]

I don’t like Zoldyck on mythic sun king since damagé usually doesn’t mean a lot until it comes to shield damage

[limber lion]

The last 10% is the biggest juice

[spice spire]

That could just be comp issue tho

[vapid nimbus]

Good rule of thumb, so CT on any multi target situation, but only equip Zoldyck when there are 3 or more targets.

[limber lion]

Yes sir.

[steel geyser]

!ambush

[prisma monolith]

Macroing Ambush to Mutilate only works with the use of a addon.
It comes with the downside that it often requires multiple key presss.
Suggested addon to use(Gnome Sequencer):http://tiny.cc/mxb6tz
Showcase Video: #assassination message

[steel geyser]

whats the command for explaining muti > ambush

[teal bloom]

Does muti spam actually do a lot of damage to the shades or is it just for parsing?

[vapid nimbus]

Thanks guys, I really appreciate all your help. It's helping me progress a lot faster, Yesterday I cleared my first +15 dungeon, and now I'm looking to get into Heroic Raiding.

[limber lion]

Go get em champ!

[steel geyser]

!muti

[teal bloom]

!mut

[prisma monolith]

Ambush is currently only used from blindside/sepsis proc, not from stealth.
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3).
Some other factors to consider are increased poison applications, blindside, and doomblade. This is true for all talent combinations and legendaries.

[steel geyser]

thx

[spice spire]

[alpine latch]

I do legit miss the days of "ambush, backstab, they ded"

[teal bloom]

@limber lion Does muti spam actually do a lot of damage to the shades or is it just for parsing?

[limber lion]

It does mega damage to the Shades.

It is used for parsing, but it is actually just the best strategy overall.

Slap a rupture on one shade and then just muti muti muti muti

[teal bloom]

Oh I've thought it's just some parsing trick and not optimal for actual damage. Will do :D

[limber lion]

You can actually see the unfiltered damage on WCL

Here's what it looked like for me 2 weeks ago.

This is overall on all targets, not just Shades.

[teal bloom]

Unfiltered means that the bonus damage is included or?

[limber lion]

Yes.

This is what it looks like with the filter

The filter is turned on by default.

[teal bloom]

Ah ok.

[alpine latch]

Man, not a single rogue in xD's 75-minute Nathria clear

That hurts

Oh wait, nvm - there was one.

It was a Sin rogue, lol

[vagrant bison]

there is a spreadsheet somewhere for every dungeon spell affected by feint?

[red pagoda]

!def

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Defensives usability: http://tiny.cc/x8rytz

[red pagoda]

check this

[balmy condor]

damn beat me to it and it's just day 1 when people haven't even seen it yet

[dawn ivy]

yo did any necro rogues test sylvanas? did bone spike reset on arrows?

[frigid kestrel]

Na Cev posted it earlier

[balmy condor]

yeh I know

but even then

hasn't propagated too far

ya know

[frigid kestrel]

ye

[red pagoda]

saw it this morning and was amazed

[dawn ivy]

gotta get that thing updated asap for SoD

[red pagoda]

thanks for doing that @balmy condor

[balmy condor]

[nimble light]

Thinking about going back to my rogue for 9.1. Have they made Assassination any better now? And which covenant is recommended? (Last time I played rogue I was Kyrian but I didn’t like that match up at all.)

[balmy condor]

assassination is really good atm

would suggest necro

we don't have any changes for 9.1 though

so

kinda just stays as is

[mellow pier]

Other classes got worse

Which makes us better

[nimble light]

It was really early 9.0 the last time I tried it though so that may not be a bad thing.

[balmy condor]

yeah we're almost 30% better now

countless buffs since then

[nimble light]

That sounds good. I’ll start grinding some new covenant rep. Thanks.

[spice spire]

Yo whispyr thanks for the list, remember you posting about it months ago. HUGE

[limber lion]

Np

[bronze belfry]

Wasn't cut to the chase added in 9.0.5 the envenom refresh for SnD?

[limber lion]

Yes.

[bronze belfry]

That's also pretty material too, cuz like that would have felt just doo doo

[ruby birch]

Daily reminder that this is a thing in 9.0:

[limber lion]

I just crafted my 235 legendary on my mage with 5 soul ash to spare

smh goml

[ruby birch]

this is my 2nd doomblade that except it has crit haste on it

[teal bloom]

Mage

[pale fossil]

Why does Mutilate do extra damage to shades? And what shades are we talking about here?

[indigo mulch]

We're prob going to have to change doomblade anyway 😄

[limber lion]

The Shades that spawn on Huntsman. Because Doomblade double dibs on the % damage buff.

[indigo mulch]

from gloves to like cloak or some shit

woo

[ruby birch]

put you cant parse with shades >(

[pale fossil]

Oh, the Shades of Barghast? That's wild.

[limber lion]

You can and have to with Mutilate.

[limber lion]

Yes.

[ruby birch]

wait what

i thought shade damage was removed?

[pale fossil]

So you just get all of your bleeds up and start spamming Mut/Envenom on shades? Or is it so good that you don't even spend your CPs, you just Mutilate?

[balmy condor]

get ready to craft your third

[ruby birch]

sub in 9.1

[limber lion]

To add to this, the way Mutilated Flesh works is that you do 45% of Mutilate damage as bleed.

So the shades % amp first amps up your Mutilate, after which the bleed will be applied. After that the % amp amps up the existing bleed on the target.

[dark crag]

Mut them really hard

[ruby birch]

never touching doomerblade again

[indigo mulch]

I really hope they let us refund our leggo 😦

[bronze belfry]

Top kek

[indigo mulch]

ONE CAN ALWAYS DREAM OKAY!?

[pale fossil]

I have a 210 Finality, 210 MA, 235 Celerity, 235 Zoldyk, 235 Doomblade. Make it stop.

[indigo mulch]

:'c

[bronze belfry]

Blizzard likes their gear treadmills

[dark crag]

Like the orbs of that 9.1 boss, ptr test was funny

[ruby birch]

wait didnt they already say they were gonna allow you to refund

[bronze belfry]

I will be absolutely thrilled

But I wouldn't count on it

[limber lion]

Let's say Mutilate does 100 damage and the amp is 20X.

First you Mutilate, it deals 2000 damage. It applies the Doomblade dot that deals 900 damage.

The amplification amps up that 900 damage 20 times as well, meaning that you do 18 000 damage with one Doomblade bleed.

Normally you should be doing 900 damage with the bleed, but because it double dips, you do 18k instead.

[ruby birch]

did you mean to reply to me

[limber lion]

These are just fictional numbers and it's actually quite a bit higher in reality.

Yes.

You said you thought the shade damage was removed

And it is.

[ruby birch]

oh i was talking about the damage on logs

[limber lion]

Yes

Me too

[ruby birch]

oh okay

so why would you hit shades to parse then?

[limber lion]

The logs still look like this

[limber lion]

?????????????????

[pale fossil]

Does that crazy amp mean that we just spam Mutilate on Shades and don't even spend our CPs because the Mutilate damage is that good?

[limber lion]

The amp damage

is removed

but not overall damage

[ruby birch]

wait so the mut flesh still counts???

[limber lion]

If you do 100 damage with Mutilate and it gets multiplied by 20

The log will show 100 damage

[ruby birch]

the "unamped" mut flesh?

[limber lion]

Even though you did 2k

[ruby birch]

OH I SEE

[limber lion]

Now read the reply that I posted earlier.

[ruby birch]

so the application of doomblade from the amped mut still counts

[vapid nimbus]

Thanks for the mitigation list @balmy condor that's just what I needed!

[limber lion]

Yes.

[ruby birch]

but the amped version of that bleed is removed

but you still get the amped mut's bleed

[limber lion]

Yes.

[ruby birch]

oh shit

[limber lion]

Yes.

[ruby birch]

i didnt know that wtf

[limber lion]

So you still do giga damage in reality

[balmy condor]

[limber lion]

Like it shows that I did 75k damage with Mutilated Flesh

When in reality I did 1.6m

[ruby birch]

jfc

[teal bloom]

Unethical combo point overcapping gameplay

[ruby birch]

i couldve been abusing that shit

too late now, havent touched huntsman in god knows how long

[limber lion]

It's not really groundbreaking honestly.

[pale fossil]

So you do giga damage in reality, but on logs it still shows that you're doing a lot of damage, just not as much as you actually are.

[limber lion]

I mean the Doomblade dot was 384 dps for me

[ruby birch]

i mean, wouldve been nice on the parse runs i had

[limber lion]

I would have still done 10k dps

Even if the entire doomblade damage was removed

It's crazy for what it's worth

And for such a short duration

6 hits of Mutilated Flesh = 400 dps

[pale fossil]

Do you mind linking the log? I'm curious what that looks like in practice.

[limber lion]

I can't because it's private.

But go look at the leaderboards, everyone's doing it lol

[teal bloom]

You got rank 1 huntsman?

[limber lion]

I did get r1 because I did 10.3k

[pale fossil]

Haha alright. I'm just curious if it's like so good that people are letting bleeds drop or not spending CPs.

[limber lion]

Even with Doomblade removed it would have been around 10k

[limber lion]

No, you still keep bleeds up

You reapply all bleeds before that

You basically want to be in energy saturation when you start spamming Mutis

[pale fossil]

Gotcha.

Do you spend CPs while you're spamming Muts or do you just overcap on CPs?

[limber lion]

Overcap.

[pale fossil]

Wow. That's nuts.

[limber lion]

That's why it's "unethical"

So it looks like this.

[pale fossil]

Because it breaks our standard DPS rules to exploit an inefficiency

I'd argue well-designed fights force you to reconsider your standard rules, but I guess we're aiming for parses, not killing the boss more efficiently, so that doesn't really apply.

[limber lion]

But yeah, to be fair I only did 130k damage on Shades out of like 2.2m

Compared to over 300k in the last 10%

[teal bloom]

Did you vendetta during the last 10%?

[limber lion]

Yes

[solar flicker]

Damn I thought I was just supposed to tab mut each of the shades once

[pale fossil]

Are these people saving Vendetta/pots for that shade burst?

[limber lion]

No

You save everything for the last 10%

[solar flicker]

no u save that for the dmg amp after hecutis dies

i also never did that lul

[limber lion]

I did over 40k dps during the last bit.

You probably should.

[solar flicker]

yea i just found out recently and havent done a clear on my rogue in like 6 weeks

might next reset though 😈

[pale fossil]

One of the top logs ran Subterfuge and MfD. That seems wild.

[limber lion]

I did that as well.

I don't recommend it though.

MA/MFD/CT is much better.

[pale fossil]

Huh. It's 61% Vigor, 33% DS, 6% MfD in the top 100.

Do you just think the dogs dying + shades means you can squeeze more value from MfD?

[solar flicker]

MFD

[ruby birch]

afaik vigor is popular because it "feels better"

[spice spire]

[ruby birch]

which tbh, when its close to the other options, smoother gameplay will result in higher dps

[pale fossil]

Yeah, I get that for Vigor. It definitely does feel better imo haha

[limber lion]

You should definitely play MFD on Huntsman and there's plenty of reasons for that.

[dawn ivy]

thats not feelcraft, thats comfortable play

[limber lion]

1. It usually sims better in 2T by default
2. You get resets from the dogs
3. You get more burst for the last 10%

[dawn ivy]

some people arent good with slow energy and will just do better with vigor

[ruby birch]

like MFD is crazy good, but its also not just an energy passive that lets u pump more shit out

[limber lion]

With 4 bleeds up at all times

you don't need Vigor's energy regen

[solar flicker]

Top 2 using deeper

[pale fossil]

Do parse runs save Lust for the last 10% too?

[limber lion]

No

You lust on pull

Lusting on pull means the boss dies quicker, which usually translates to more damage overall.

[drowsy coral]

Wtf there's actually a dmg amp at 10%

[limber lion]

Yes.

[drowsy coral]

How did I miss that

[limber lion]

Sometimes it doesn't proc because god knows why.

[pale fossil]

Obligatory small indie company

[naive valve]

ok so I took a break from WoW for a bit, last time i played sin was trash and sub was at the top--is sin not trash anymore?

[limber lion]

No, Sin is one of the best melee specs.

[naive valve]

:O

lit

[limber lion]

Sub on the other hand...

[teal bloom]

[naive valve]

that's what i've heard....

[dawn ivy]

yeah subs great....

[naive valve]

is venthyr an ok cov

[drowsy coral]

Shit so it's actually pretty do-able to pump 10k on huntsman without too much struggle

[limber lion]

Venthyr is the best covenant for ST

[naive valve]

:O

lit i just chose cuz flavor

[limber lion]

We in Ravenholdt still prefer Necrolord.

It wins when you start adding more targets.

Venthyr loses already in 2T

[limber lion]

Definitely not.

How many 10k logs can you see in the leaderboards?

[dawn ivy]

and the gap in ST between venthyr/necro is very close

[limber lion]

And SBS is the best, most fun covenant ability we have.

[drowsy coral]

Do you know virtually how much dps you'd gain if you'd mut spam the shades and keep everything for the last 10% ?

I did 9k3 yesterday without doing all that

[limber lion]

There is not a single machine or simulation in the world

that could count that for you.

There's a million things that happen

[dawn ivy]

your imagination

[limber lion]

Gear, talents, people dying, cooldown usage etc.

There is no number for that.

"Yeh, you get 900 more dps by doing it"

Would also highly recommend playing with either DFV or IQD

Because you can slap those when he gets to 10% to get giga damage out of them

[drowsy coral]

I know people in outlaw sim'ed something similar with mfd reset in M+, that's why I asked

But in raid there's too much variable to even make a guess i get it

[limber lion]

Something similar?

As in what?

[drowsy coral]

As in adding a variable throughout the fights

But yeah that was just a question if by any chance maths could've guess something.

[limber lion]

Muti spam, assuming you don't use Mutilate at all on the Shades? How many mutilates do you use? What do you consider spamming? How long do the shades last? What % is the damage amp when you go kill them?

[dawn ivy]

its worth doing, thats basically all

[limber lion]

Save everything for the end? Does that mean you wouldn't miss CD's by holding? Would you miss CD's by holding? Do you get mechanics before it? Are your raid members dead? Does the amp even proc?

[pale fossil]

How many PIs you get

[limber lion]

What is your rotation during this whole endeavor?

What is your gear?

You can't really count it.

You just have to go look at the logs and compare yourself to someone who does it

But it changes for everyone

Some people do 150k with Mutilated Flesh, some do 70k

For some the Shades die in 2s, for some they're alive for 10

[teal bloom]

Just hope that all the other dps players somehow die just before the last dog dies so you can solo blast the whole phase

[limber lion]

Exactly. Just you, 1 tank and 2 healers.

[spice spire]

[pale fossil]

[spice spire]

Everyone else huddle together on a sin seeker

[gusty kestrel]

abusing shades is very cringe

[drowsy coral]

I've lost all interest in parsing high so i'm not bothering doing it

[limber lion]

[spice spire]

Highly unethical Cev

[limber lion]

I don't do it anymore.

[drowsy coral]

It's like using CT on the little shits on council

It feels wrong

[spice spire]

Also Cev, dagger check?

I forgot to ask on reset

[limber lion]

Hah, no luck.

Our buyer instead got helm, cabalist trinket and the weapon from our Sire kill

[gusty kestrel]

theres a small difference between playing differently and actually abusing a legendary

[limber lion]

:-----)

[spice spire]

Dead inside 🙃

[limber lion]

Probably the luckiest buyer in existence.

The 2 vips he had got items

And he himself got an item

And no duplicates

[teal bloom]

Worth EZ How much are they paying?

[limber lion]

I'm not entirely sure, but around 7m for 10/10 I think

[spice spire]

Only 7m? Seems low for CE this tier tbh

[limber lion]

Well, it's also been 7 months

[spice spire]

Still though, SD Seems infinitely harder than whatever old god 8.3 was, nzoth iirc

[drowsy coral]

I'd consider paying 7m for 3 denath gear pieces, wth

[teal bloom]

I could easily afford that but I don't want to have an achievement that I can't get myself :( maybe I'll get cutting edge some tier in the future

[drowsy coral]

If I had that much money in the first place

[crystal lava]

The hardest part about CE is finding a guild for it

[limber lion]

A capable guild*

But yeah definitely.

It depends on the tier as well. Normally tiers don't last for 8 months

[ornate charm]

last 2 season were way too long

[cloud reef]

did they remove the pre pull pot cheese

[limber lion]

Yes.

[alpine latch]

As long as you don't lie and say you were a part of a CE guild, no guild will care if you bought CE

But if you lie about it, that's a MAJOR red flag

[solar flicker]

Wait they removed the theotar pre pull shit?

[limber lion]

Yes sir.

[solar flicker]

since when wtf

[cloud reef]

is phantom fire still the best pot without the cheese

[limber lion]

This reset.

[limber lion]

We use Spectral Agi for the consistency.

Just use Agi for everything.

[balmy condor]

necro buffed by removing dishonest venthyr gaming

[limber lion]

Definitely. Literally no reason to play Venthyr anymore.

[spice spire]

Ethical necrolord gamers rise up

[ionic kelp]

pot cheese is still there

[strange python]

I love pot cheese

[limber lion]

Nameless Fairy literally said about 2 hours ago that it was fixed.

When was that log recorded?

[ionic kelp]

yesterday night

[limber lion]

Maybe it was hotfixed in today?

[ionic kelp]

well yesterday night at 7pm pst

ya maybe

[limber lion]

Are you Venth?

[ionic kelp]

ya

[limber lion]

Can you test it

[vestal wren]

its fixed on ptr iirc

not sure about retail

[limber lion]

It is yes

Nameless claimed that it's fixed in Retail as well

[ionic kelp]

cant rn since im at work, but it was definitely working in our reclear last night

[limber lion]

He tried it and it didn't work

I'll trust the CF who tried it just a few moments ago.

Probably hotfixed.

[balmy condor]

cringe

trusting CF's

[limber lion]

u

[balmy condor]

respect the drip cev

[limber lion]

Who can I trust if not the CF's

[spice spire]

The shadow blades

[limber lion]

[balmy condor]

shiennar

[limber lion]

[balmy condor]

he almost has CE

[limber lion]

I'm also almost wr1

[soft shale]

he never surrenders

[balmy condor]

600 more pulls

and he's got it

[limber lion]

Surely.

[soft shale]

just hope he's not like me 1700 on uu nat and no kill

[spice spire]

Only 200 pulls away

[balmy condor]

2000*

[limber lion]

not legit.

link logs

[spice spire]

Unlucky

[soft shale]

i wish i had those same as argus 900

[balmy condor]

no no, I remember hacha talking about it

[spice spire]

1700 pulls is an unreal number

[soft shale]

imagine killing jaina in 1 day then going to uu nat jail

[spice spire]

Yikes

[balmy condor]

there were a lot of asian guilds during legion with 1200+ pulls on kiljaeden

[soft shale]

never understimate 6 day spanish guilds

[cloud reef]

i pre potted for Shriek and it removed the pot

[balmy condor]

remove the dishonesty

[spice spire]

NonCF troll confirmed

[balmy condor]

become pure of stink

[spice spire]

Necrolord stinky boys rise up

[soft shale]

4 ocarina stacks not on wcl either

[ionic kelp]

[limber lion]

[spice spire]

Ethical gaming restored

[soft shale]

the rank 1s are always safe now

[ionic kelp]

going to report all the logs now

[limber lion]

Welcome to the best covenant in the game, boys.

We're all ethical gamers here.

[vestal wren]

[soft shale]

rip

[frail fossil]

LETS G OOO

[frail fossil]

bis

[limber lion]

Not even close babeh

[spice spire]

🧢

[soft shale]

i still remember the necro beta lBE pog

how broken the buff is!??!

oh wait no one cared 😦

[limber lion]

Hacha which guild did you do CoS with

And what's your characters name

[soft shale]

i was on riptide then on myst i think back then

we did try to kill uu nat way into the next tier but still didnt kill it

[vestal fox]

If i am looking to play both assassin and outlaw should I not craft doomblade?

[soft shale]

i never got my mythic mastery trinket 😦

[vestal fox]

should I craft master assassin and then craft the other 2 legendaries for both specs?

[limber lion]

Which realm

[soft shale]

dun modr alliance eu

i dont think logs were public but maybe from the first boss you can find some before the guild imploded

[limber lion]

Damn unlucky

[soft shale]

yea dont worry it became a meme on the other guild too because i always wanted to kill uu nat

and every time we went we just died for a while

then dipped

i wanted lurker mythic so bad

[weary marten]

has the necro lego been nerf ? i heard something like that but can't find any source

[soft shale]

yes deathspike only throws 1 extra spike

instead of 2

[weary marten]

does that break it to a point where necro is shit now ?

[soft shale]

i does not affect assa that much

outlaw is sad tho

[limber lion]

https://ptr.wowhead.com/news/patch-9-1-ptr-build-38950-class-and-spell-changes-demon-hunter-talent-tuning-322739

[limber lion]

Necro is already the best covenant, even without the legendary

[weary marten]

ok nice then

does just mean we'll take a few more gcd to dot everything

nothing much changes then

[hoary fulcrum]

i thought the DS nerf was because Outlaw was PUMPING with itl

idk, liek wiht bladeflurry and the cp gain and what not

[balmy condor]

DS is usually deathly shadows btw

not deathspike

[limber lion]

Or Deeper Strata.

[balmy condor]

yeh

but that's usually context

like legendary vs talent

[limber lion]

Yep

[spice spire]

Yeah

[swift sigil]

Hey! Re-rolling assa Is there any good sin rogues who stream or Vods i can study?

[limber lion]

Deathly Shadows, Dashing Scoundrel, DeathSpike

[balmy condor]

would suggest ryfie if you're looking for m+

in terms of raiding, im not actually sure of any high level streams

cev do you stream raids?

[vestal wren]

or deepening shadows 😛

[limber lion]

Yeh, every now and then

Planning to stream boost runs and mythic raids on reset.

[balmy condor]

then there ya go

[swift sigil]

Prefect, thank you

[balmy condor]

no problem

[spice spire]

Huge if true

Miss the deïræ streams

[balmy condor]

@iron orchid

[iron orchid]

I'm here

barely even play anymore

[limber lion]

Wise man.

[unique cosmos]

If I'm running strategem should I always aim to hit 5 CP or situational

[iron orchid]

I'm full-on wandering around France, no time for playing no Internet for streaming

I'll be back for 9.1 dw

[limber lion]

Always 5-6 CP

Wtf is Vaughn doing here

@outer lotus

[outer lotus]

me as a sin rogue is very sad about venthyr cheese being bugfixed very sad indeed it is a sad day

[limber lion]

[gusty mirage]

@outer lotus is on our turf now

[verbal mantle]

Vaughn in the swamp

[mint anvil]

They patched Pot Abuse didn't they

Double*

[vestal wren]

seems so

[limber lion]

Yes sir.

[halcyon zealot]

it only took them until day 199 of the patch, quick work by blizzard as usual

[limber lion]

Probably because they weren't aware of the bug but became aware of it because of the Castle Nathria speed run event.

[strange python]

patched on live or 9.1?

[vestal wren]

live too seemingly

[strange python]

sadge

[vestal wren]

i can't confirm given i am not venthyr

but some people in here did confirm

[strange python]

just tested it

gone

[soft shale]

yes a lot of pots were sacrificed today for science

maybe time for a pin so no more get slain

[strange python]

yea lol

[alpine latch]

75 minute clear was nutty ... I'm sure a lot of bugs are getting fixed this next week, lol

[gusty mirage]

that's the price of the cheese

[soft shale]

dont worry my boy shadows is safe

[gloomy fern]

OH NO MY PREPOT IS GONE MR @limber lion WHAT AM I TO DO? WAS VAUGHN RIGHT?

[soft shale]

at least for hc week on next tier

when sub is slappin

[gusty mirage]

Vaughn ratted us out?

[soft shale]

most likely they did find out when like 10 venthyr people used it on every boss

kek

on the event

like hey mc connagan why do their pots last this long they are doing like 100k damage

oh dont worry jeffrey it is a soulbind but they lose a potency

WAIT A SECOND they are not even playing that soulbind

stares into the code oh

[gusty mirage]

I bet your brain is an amazing place

[soft shale]

i just dont know many super US names

[gusty mirage]

lmao and you come up with mcconnagan and jeff?

that's impressive

[soft shale]

i mean its like if you want a latin american name you dont go salvador

you say ricardo ernesto

[odd heath]

Juan Pablo

[gusty mirage]

I go Jorge Rodriguez personally

[ionic kelp]

speedy gonzalez

[limber lion]

[sullen garden]

What was the pot cheese?

[thorny pond]

Marijuana infused cheese is what it is now

[sullen garden]

No I mean potion cheese

[thorny pond]

Theotar cast pot tome switch to nadja

Pot lasts 2x as long and you get a better soul bind

[sullen garden]

All that just for double pot?

[thorny pond]

It was pretty good for hardly any cost

[gloomy fern]

pretty good to have 1 min+ pot for avarage of 3 min fights

[thorny pond]

Yep. Even an even distribution of 5 venthyr per raid, that adds up quickly

[limber lion]

Sometimes the potion was your top 3 damage.

[gloomy fern]

WAS? you mean its gone?

[limber lion]

stahp

[mighty kiln]

venthyr potion ''exploit'' fixed?

[gloomy fern]

[soft shale]

man we're gonna have a lot of fun for some days eh

[thorny pond]

So my new guild wondered why Sire Denny was slapping the tanks so hard on re-clear. No mind numbing

Sat me cuz I'm new for an extra dk. Sadge

[nimble tartan]

maybe if it was a pin ud remember

[thorny pond]

We have more pins than a sewing kit

[spice spire]

Huge if true

[alpine latch]

So, most of us are instantly geared for +10s in 9.1

It should make KSM pretty easy

[naive valve]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[crisp creek]

guys, what lego should I go for in pvp ? completley new rogue here and guides are all over 🙂

mainly play rbgs

got 190 mark lego atm but not sure if I should pump in the rest of soul ash in that one

[mint anvil]

LEGGO

Thx for all the help my sin friends

[soft shale]

why are you on the ground tho

[mint anvil]

cus enraged lol

[ionic kelp]

floorpov

[mint anvil]

and i dont remember what i used my cheat on

[ionic kelp]

im just happy for nezzie

[soft shale]

gzz anyways

[mint anvil]

tyty

[gusty mirage]

grats

[mint anvil]

Thx Oxi!

[faint harness]

@shy dust @strange python it is done

[strange python]

will never be used

[faint harness]

i might play this god forsaken spec once this tier

[strange python]

[limber swallow]

whoa.. those are the best... they have intellect... most important stat for rogues.

also.. those things are great..

[faint harness]

i recently learnt that its a weeb name

so i regret making them

[limber lion]

[faint harness]

ngl it feels bad to play sub on sire

that spec just doesnt do much in p3

[hollow escarp]

[faint harness]

pretty sure this is the best dps ive done in p3

[polar cape]

oofff

[gusty mirage]

nice pants

[limber lion]

That's disgusting ngl

And not in the good way disgusting

[faint harness]

so many mechanics

that interrupt sod/flag timings

[limber lion]

Yeah downtime is a bitch

[tulip nacelle]

getting beat in p3 damage by the pad spec smh

[faint harness]

outlaw is lit p3

[tulip nacelle]

yeah it's true

[gloomy fern]

wdym u got infinite shadowsteps

no downtime

[faint harness]

infinite

[gloomy fern]

got a vanish shadowstrike also

[faint harness]

2 min cd

and you need to use step charges when you got cds up

[gloomy fern]

i mean double step should be enough to be on boss at all times

unless ur tank snaps the boss

[faint harness]

and being knocked away 1-2 seconds is enough to make it bad

[hollow escarp]

vanish shadowstrike as well

but the grass is always greener on the other side

[faint harness]

ur trolling, just play it yourself if its so fucking insane lol

[gloomy fern]

not saying its insane im just saying u can be glued to the boss

[faint harness]

no

you cant

i have killed the boss 15 times

[gloomy fern]

[faint harness]

you dont sit on 2 charges ever

[copper sun]

How do I optimize shiv window?

[faint harness]

since you continuously spend them

you have 1 step

[gloomy fern]

what more do u need it for other than price and knockback

[faint harness]

overlap

but thats already 2 things

[gloomy fern]

i mean everyone lose uptime there

[faint harness]

that happens more frequently

than you get 2 charges

so you always lack a charge

for every 2nd thing

you realize getting 2 charges is 54 seconds

[gloomy fern]

one is recharged when the next comes up im PRETTy sure

[faint harness]

you keep rolling them

[gloomy fern]

knockbacks is every 25s and blood price even more

u dont even get third anymore

27s recharge

math checks out

shoud always be up

[faint harness]

its not

idk man

you have never done it as sub

i have

[strange python]

if you play assa and outlaw is it best to set looting spec to outlaw so you can get one-handers and daggers?

[cobalt gyro]

you'll only loot one handers if you set it to outlaw

[hollow escarp]

yep, and also there are more one handers than daggers in the game

which means that if you wanna get a trinket, there are more changes to get it as assa

or sub

as the loot table is smaller

[strange python]

ah weird , when I checked dungeons in the adventure guide as outlaw, It showed me daggers aswell

but guess that's not sorted by spec drops then

[worthy moth]

guys

the aoe rotation is

garrote garrote bleed bleed knives knives?

[wintry spade]

i'm confused, how do you want to do double bleed?

you would need cp for bleed

[worthy moth]

it means repetitive

[wintry spade]

ohh

[wintry spade]

the aoe rotation in assa rogue is the only thing that i find painful and unfun

:c

[faint harness]

barely higher than my sub sim

[limber lion]

jeez

[faint harness]

i guess zoldyck is trash

[limber lion]

give link

oh yeah

[hollow escarp]

yeah

[limber lion]

Zoldyck is the worst st leg

[hollow escarp]

zoldyck is only good in p3 denny and m+

🙂

[faint harness]

but is doomblade like 500 more dps

on st

[gusty mirage]

don't you smile at me @hollow escarp

[hollow escarp]

[gusty mirage]

[worthy moth]

i like

[faint harness]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/tFEQEq49zfThrCowmFF958

if you can find anything, appreciated

[leaden bloom]

can you cloak a massacre hit on denathrius?

[faint harness]

p2 ye

[limber lion]

!def

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Defensives usability: http://tiny.cc/q602uz

[faint harness]

p3 no

[limber lion]

I'll take a peek in a bit

[faint harness]

might also be cus im speced into CT

[spice spire]

You also have CT on which does sim a bit less

[faint harness]

y

[spice spire]

Fuck

You beat me to it

[hollow escarp]

does it really sim lower?

nevermind

[spice spire]

In my case, by a bit

[hollow escarp]

was thinking about execute patchwerk

[limber lion]

Yeah and your crit isn't really high. You should have crit as your highest stat with IQD as Venthyr

[faint harness]

oh

yea i have shit rings

[granite thistle]

@limber lion i forgot to send you my logs

Kekw

[spice spire]

Haste IQD proc is

[faint harness]

so i should prob just not play iqd

[spice spire]

What other trinks do you have?

[faint harness]

all of them

i was just following the words of rae

just realized i got double of many

[spice spire]

Ahhhh IQD is HUGE if you can get crit main stat. Iirc phial and dread fire

I’m like 99% sure 223 phial > 226 chain

[limber lion]

Didn't you get help from Weak?

[faint harness]

chain is a bit.. weird aint it

cus it procs less

[limber lion]

I can still take a look no worries, just send em here

[faint harness]

at lower hp

[limber lion]

Yeh, if it sims similarly to Phial, I would stick to Phial

[faint harness]

mostly simming for sire

[limber lion]

Yeh.

I'm doing a sim now, let's see what happens.

You probs want to stick to Venthyr right?

Might not wanna swap to Necro just to blast on Sire as Sin and then suffer as Sub

[faint harness]

ye im playing venthyr

[copper sun]

How do I optimize shiv window?

[limber lion]

You press it on cooldown.

Nothing else to really optimize there.

You apply bleeds before so you don't have to do them during if possible

@faint harness https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/oa3Aak8EYAEn6qwAUKBnr6

70 whole dps.

Didn't get Crit as your highest stat though, so IQD doesn't win.

[faint harness]

oh i forgot about that chest

thanks

[limber lion]

Yeah, you have a lot of haste compared to crit

Would need something like an Azure-Venom Choker from SOA to offset that

Not sure how ham you wanna go

[faint harness]

got shit statted items

[limber lion]

Let's see how that would do actually

[bitter canyon]

how does IQD choose which stat?

[balmy condor]

during lust will pick your highest

otherwise one of your top 2

[limber lion]

It chooses one of your top 2 highest stats, during lust highest.

fak

[balmy condor]

too slow old man

[bitter canyon]

ahh

thanks 🙂

so during lust wouldnt it choose haste since that will usually be your highest?

[balmy condor]

yeah but if you're venthyr you don't want that

you want to try and gem/chant to force crit as your highest

[tulip nacelle]

lust doesn't count into it

[balmy condor]

^

idk what the question is to be fair

but IQD is based on rating

not %

[bitter canyon]

ahhh

[limber lion]

Yeah, I sim around 6.7k with Zold and EP/Vig/CT.

So 6.8k is honestly pretty decent with that setup

[faint harness]

really

[limber lion]

Honestly should probably just sim execute patchwork and just build around that.

It's not really accurate, but it's better than doing an advanced sim with 200 combinations

Unless you've got plenty of time on your hands

[frail fossil]

am i seeing this right

push playing something that is not sub

[strange python]

he wont

[faint harness]

sire only

[vital tapir]

that's how it begins push

that's how it begins..

[frail fossil]

[faint harness]

nah

patch is over

[frail fossil]

look at me dude

i played sire as assa too

[vital tapir]

flower's now assa player

[faint harness]

yea but you're different

[frail fossil]

u're in too deep after

[faint harness]

also you got doomblade

i dont

[frail fossil]

wait what

[vital tapir]

I have db too

[frail fossil]

did u skip ur torghast duty ?

[faint harness]

no

[vital tapir]

never actually played it

[faint harness]

not making doomblade when 9.1 makes it a shit slot

[vital tapir]

well..

uhh

[faint harness]

gonna be cloak doombladers

[vital tapir]

I made it like

2-3 months ago

so it's fucked

[frail fossil]

i made it on the wrong slot, and then i'll recraft it on hands if i get the slg ones

and then i'll recraft it on cloak

[vital tapir]

smh flower

[faint harness]

dont you have it on shoulder already

[vital tapir]

he does

[frail fossil]

i mean on hands

fixed

[faint harness]

i have every single item now

from the raid

feelsgood

[vital tapir]

gib.

[faint harness]

dont have to do anything

anymore

[frail fossil]

LF 233 weapons

[vital tapir]

I don't have anything from M CN basically

[frail fossil]

play alts or smth

[vital tapir]

only fucking cloak

[faint harness]

alts

playing alts is a trap when ur in a raiding guild

at some point they gonna ask you

"would you want to reroll?"

[frail fossil]

just play the most dogshit class on earth

[balmy condor]

traps

[frail fossil]

like idk

[faint harness]

rae is poster boy for that situation

[frail fossil]

yeah cuz rae is good on monk, u can play an alt be awful at it and no one will ask u to main it

[frail fossil]

[faint harness]

cant be bad at classes

literally impossible

would have to remove brain

[low girder]

just say no

[frail fossil]

yeah same

impossible to be bad at any class

literally S tier on every dps spec

on god

[faint harness]

havent you played this game for like a year

tried like 3 dps classes

[frail fossil]

it's the mindset push

[frail fossil]

and i had all classes to 120 in bfa

[faint harness]

[vital tapir]

dude

[faint harness]

tbh i have only played holy paladin, havoc, ret paladin and assa/outlaw/sub in mythic raiding

[vital tapir]

but why

I've only played

sub / OL and assa in mythic raiding

my OL sucks ass btw

[faint harness]

played holy paladin on aggramar and argus

cus our holy paladin was kicked mid prog

[vital tapir]

so does my assa in SL

[faint harness]

then i got called "concrete paladin"

cus all my healing logs were grey

[vital tapir]

HAHAHHA

[frail fossil]

i played 2 different healing spec, 3 different tank spec, all rogue spec, 2 warrior dps spec, enhancement shaman, ww monk, spriest, fire mage

[vital tapir]

fucking why.

[frail fossil]

not saying i played them well tho

[vital tapir]

just play another game

[frail fossil]

i even played warlock in bfa prepatch

[limber lion]

what the fuck.

[faint harness]

weird

[limber lion]

I've played this game since Cataclysm

[frail fossil]

[faint harness]

and you stuck with rogue

[limber lion]

And I've never had that many characters.

[vital tapir]

same ceve

[frail fossil]

no matter how far u go, u always wanna come back home at the end

[vital tapir]

I played tbc, wrath cata and mists

and bfa sl

I only played resto / ele sham, bm hunter and rogue all 3 specs

and only rogue in competetive raiding

[frail fossil]

wait until u see my real power on blood dk

[vital tapir]

the other ones were HC icc 25 man, firelands, naxx, ulduar

[frail fossil]

absolute monster tank

[frail fossil]

adhd i get distracted by every spec in the game when i'm bored

[vital tapir]

just

play

some

other

game.

[frail fossil]

why

[vital tapir]

I can't even level anything

[frail fossil]

is it bad i can play multiple class ?

[vital tapir]

I created a monk

got to lvl 8

quit.

the only class I have on lvl 60 is rogue

[bleak sky]

!oil

[prisma monolith]

Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ

[vital tapir]

2 of 'em

[frail fossil]

i had 3 classes at 60 on the first week

never played the 2 of them past that tho

my dk had iqd week 1 was slammin

[faint harness]

slammin 60s

hunter actually got 226 weapon

huge

[vital tapir]

[faint harness]

that shammie name is cursed

[frail fossil]

???? u got 2

[frail fossil]

pushterre

[faint harness]

no eawthwawden

[vital tapir]

ye, since I began SL on dreanor with another char then transferred back onto azjol

where my previous main was

[frail fossil]

tbf one of the most fun i had in bfa was leveling a spec, and trying to get a key as high as possible with shit ilv

[vital tapir]

so I leveled that one too

[frail fossil]

i got to like 17 with a 435 ilv bdk

[faint harness]

i hope pushterre is the correct french word

[frail fossil]

yeah

[faint harness]

clair too?

cus its light right

or am i wrong

[drowsy coral]

Clair is "Bright"

[frail fossil]

clair is bright

[faint harness]

ok

that works

[drowsy coral]

almost fucked up

[frail fossil]

would've been pushlumière

[faint harness]

oh yea

but that reminds me too much of lightbulbs

so no ty

[drowsy coral]

Yeah you clearly dodged a bullet not going for the exact translation

It sounds terrible

[shy dust]

Even push has betrayed

[vital tapir]

wdym, it's a vulpera

it's supposed to be cursed.

[frail fossil]

did push actually make a vulpera ?

[faint harness]

no

its his shammy

[vital tapir]

my shammy's called

eawthwawden

[frail fossil]

tbf cant believe i had iqd week 1 on a dk and i still played rogue for the tier

fuck unholy most boring spec in the game

[vital tapir]

never played uh dk

[frail fossil]

it's bad

[vital tapir]

never want to

[frail fossil]

dk fun ranking is
Blood dk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> frost dk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>unholy

objective opinion

[limber lion]

dk ranking:

[hollow escarp]

blood is fun

[faint harness]

blood is fun

[frail fossil]

blood is one of my fav spec in the game

wouldn't like to raid tank with it tho, but it's a fucking blast in m+

[limber lion]

Don't need to play anything else when you main a banger spec like #assassination

[frail fossil]

banger spec

[drowsy coral]

Except in HoA if hunters don't get interrupted

[frail fossil]

just death strike bro

[vital tapir]

51% aura buff
banger spec

[frail fossil]

📠

[limber lion]

Banger spec doesn't mean big numbers

You consider fire mage a banger spec?

Didn't think so.

[vital tapir]

no, fire mages are normies

[limber lion]

Exactly

[vital tapir]

fuck 'em

I only play my sub rogue :3

I'll try assa and ol here and there to not get completely rusty

[teal bloom]

Assassination is all I need to be happy in life

[bleak sky]

blood dk

[vital tapir]

but sub's the way.

[hollow escarp]

we like bloody specs

[vital tapir]

that can be taken out of context

[hollow escarp]

gimme bleeds

[teal bloom]

sorry leaked my profession

[hollow escarp]

don't you hate it when you attack some random mob and then you have this weakaura on screen for 3 hours

[limber lion]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[limber lion]

@granite thistle

[limber lion]

You can just change the load condition to only work in combat.

[hollow escarp]

I know

[granite thistle]

I see

[limber lion]

Welp

[hollow escarp]

one of the few weakauras that load outside combat for me

[limber lion]

:p

My gemstone is just really small

and part of the huge wa group anyway

[shy dust]

Tbf fire fits that fantasy

Of just nuking something with your cooldown

[drowsy coral]

And then you see them jumping like bunnies to avoid hardcasting

And it breaks the fantasy

[hollow escarp]

they ADADADADA more than fury warriors

[drowsy coral]

I thought straffing and jumping for no reason was a rogue thing, little did i know..

[hollow escarp]

maybe the 4th warrior spec

#outlaw

[granite thistle]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)