assassination

[burnt star]

try this for grinding

[stoic needle]

[burnt star]

32 pf to get the trinket x-x

in a week

[stoic needle]

i got the trinket on my like 10th one, traded to me

and just never got a pox after that

[limber lion]

Yeah, this is more like it.

[limber lion]

[stoic needle]

should've known it was a sign that outlaw is verboten

it was not meant to be

[alpine latch]

I'm not grinding shit until 9.1. It's too late for me to care about getting anything at this point

[scenic root]

I saw on a wowhead guide that Castellan's Fury(council p3 enraged from Nik alive) can be soothed with shiv, but the spell ID on wowhead says it can't be soothed

[alpine latch]

At best we'll kill Darkvein and start working on SKS before 9.1 hits

[cloud reef]

that place still gives me nightmares

[spice spire]

You’re doing inerva before SKS?

That’s wild since SKS is hella cheeseable

[merry fox]

@scenic root It can be soothed on heroic, not mythic

[scenic root]

Thats really dumb

[alpine latch]

We did 5 pulls on Inerva and wiped at 45%

We killed HD without much time left and just went there since it was close

We have the skill to be 6 or 7 out of 10, we just haven't had the numbers.

Been replacing people who left, people have been going on vacation, etc.

I'm glad I put Zoldyck on pants

Since boots are a Socket of Domination location

[limber lion]

Yep.

But KT does drop high ilvl pants as well

So, who knows what's best

[alpine latch]

My guild won't get that far in Mythic

We're 2-3 tiers from CE (if we get there)

We only raid 1 night a week for 4 hours

Not a ton of 1-night CE guilds out there.

[spice spire]

Unlucky, we’re doing the same thing

Probably going to clear Xymox and call it a tier, though this is my last raid with that group

[echo cargo]

Fuck, if I could raid one night a week lol

[strange python]

Is assa going to be the best st class in the game most likely next patch with spiest being gone? I know tuning and soulbinds and all but it really seems to be looking that way

[drifting cloud]

til spriest is gone

but still, no

[strange python]

Who is better?

[dawn ivy]

spriest is still a monster

they got nerfed 4-5%

[compact pumice]

Spriest will still be top most likely

[dawn ivy]

but sin rogue looks to be top 3-5 dps

[alpine latch]

It's awesome. m+ and whatever 6 nights a week, Friday I show up and blow shit up. With crappy gear I'm top 3-4 on the meters. Each week I get better with the Sin rotation and get closer and closer to #1

[gloomy fern]

how do u call this grind btw, more than half of those has nothing to do when said item was being farmed

[limber lion]

I just pulled up a random r.io of someone who had done a lot of dungeons

It's definitely not a grind

But the man understood the point

:p

Just wanted to compare his runs to someone elses

[frail fossil]

bro i have like 70 mist runs

and it's not for an item

[limber lion]

Ye

Wtf why

[pale fossil]

I ran Mists like 90 times for the dagger

[limber lion]

I thought you didn't like m+

[frail fossil]

cuz i used to do 10 m+ vault

[limber lion]

maybe not

[frail fossil]

and only mist

[alpine latch]

I got lucky on the dagger, lol

[frail fossil]

cuz it was the faster

[pale fossil]

And then the next time I ran it after that I got the dagger a second time

[frail fossil]

i used to do 20 m+ per week for my 2 char

[gloomy fern]

ppl not understanding that the 233 dagger farm is the worst

[alpine latch]

Sadly, Mists dagger is looking like the best OH dagger (unless you get lucky in raid)

[pale fossil]

I'm using two Mists daggers atm haha

That dungeon's fairly easy to PUG at least.

[alpine latch]

I'm using Voracious Gorger Spine and Vicious Goreripper Shank

So SD and Sire, basically

[cloud reef]

i got it on the first reset after killing

[gloomy fern]

can someone kick

[cloud reef]

[gloomy fern]

not gotten it since march 8th

[cloud reef]

RIP

[hoary night]

Hope that transits into your first 259 dagger

[gloomy fern]

sylvanas hc dagger inc before

[olive peak]

should i hold on to crafting doomblade right now? Asking since doomblade gets a claok slot and we probably are gonna need gem slots from the raid right?

[tulip nacelle]

that sounds like a good idea unless you really need it now

[alpine latch]

Soul Ash doesn't really matter at this point, so if you're going to raid, just craft it

Soul Ash is infinitely farmable in 9.1

[olive peak]

infinititely how?

what did i miss

[alpine latch]

Like a month ago they announced that you'll get ~60% of the SA for each subsequent clear

It's starting in 9.1

[olive peak]

wow

[tulip nacelle]

you can also funnel from alts

[alpine latch]

You get more for your first run and you can farm it

[olive peak]

so 1200 for both after the first one

cool

[alpine latch]

You'll receive 50% more Soul Ash on your first Torghast run
You'll receive Soul Ash, albeit reduced, on subsequent runs
You'll be able to send Soul Ash to alts```

[olive peak]

also one thing that occured to me, to send soul ash over from other characters you need to unlock korthia right?

which is like 2 hours of questing?

[pale fossil]

Do both the sender and receiver need to unlock Korthia? Or just the sender? I'd imagine it's the latter.

[olive peak]

ye

just the sender

since the vendor is after u unlock it

[vestal wren]

goot to know, i xpected 50%, so slightly better but still bad

[stoic needle]

afaik the soul ash sending thing is inside torg, not korthia

unless they changed it

[dawn ivy]

they changed it

heirmir is in korthia and he sells the soul ash

was maybe 4 or 5 builds ago

[stoic needle]

i see

[cerulean nest]

can't wait for those pins to be updated

[warm parcel]

whatr you after

[dawn ivy]

"rogues dead, everyone go back home to your fotm"

[safe barn]

Fotm

[brittle hedge]

https://tenor.com/view/peace-ghost-gif-4978918

[royal lantern]

fotm rollers that thought rogue would be some big SSSSSSS tier without any real changes

[safe barn]

Never did never will

[royal lantern]

are not smart enough to read what you just said here

unless the class does ridicolous high numbers, its stuck in this weird limbo we have right now lol, everyone with half a brain knows that

aka, 0,8%of the wow community

[safe barn]

If you know how your class works its fine, unless you are running for WF

I saw a guy playing sin rogue since the beginning of the exp and he was Pumping

[slow marsh]

Imagine fotm rolling rogue

Rogue being in a good spot doesn't mean it's worth fotm rolling.

[dawn ivy]

yeah but limit max is playing rogue now

that must mean something riiiiiight

[slow marsh]

People don't seem to realize he swapped from monk to rogue

[odd hazel]

i mean

[slow marsh]

He also doesn't play in wf

[odd hazel]

peeps gonna be disappointed when all we bring is damage

we might get an extra spot thanks for DK nerf though

[slow marsh]

Well yeah you can't really stack us yet

We have good enough damage to bring one at least

Na dk spots are prolly the same tbh

[odd hazel]

i wouldnt call us FOTM though, its weird that peeps gonna re-roll to rogue besides just wanting to

[slow marsh]

You just stack amz on amz and it solves the nerf

[odd hazel]

the AMZ now is awful though

[slow marsh]

It's not awful it's just not OPOP

[odd hazel]

i mean it wasnt OP, just blizz doesnt know how to not make a raid 90% spell damage :^)

[azure bronze]

Still waiting for that utility they promised

[slow marsh]

You stack three amzs on each other with the raid in it and it still negates a mechanic every 3 mina

[dawn ivy]

feel like people havent looked at an AMZ log and seen how much damage it prevents

they buffed amz just last build to make it a balanced spell, it isnt worthless

[odd hazel]

im sure it negates a lot but, it only does spell damage ( Right? ) So if you dont make the raid 90% spell damage, there goes that utility

[azure bronze]

Magic damage yeah

[pale fossil]

Realistically I'd guess we're probably taking a Hunter spot, not a DK spot, unless fights limit the number of melee you can take.

[safe barn]

Ofc, that means he likes playing rogue

Especifically sin rogue

[slow marsh]

You also have to count the fact that now havoc is getting a spot

Instead of tanking

[dawn ivy]

potentially more than 1 spot

havoc looks great

[slow marsh]

Havoc won't get stacked

[azure bronze]

Depends how valuable darkness will be in the new raid compared to amz

[slow marsh]

Darkness is bad tho. Darkness is always worse than amz

[azure bronze]

Since they are sorta now on the same playing field as far as I understood

[slow marsh]

You have to have the whole raid stack in it and it's only a chance at being a defensive and not guaranteed

Had that discussion when amz nerf first dropped. Stacking DH is far worse than stacking dk

[pale fossil]

Sure, but realistically you're swapping Havoc for Fury/Arms and making your other tank a Prot Warrior, aren't you? Which leaves you with the same number of slots as before?

[slate echo]

Newer player, just wanted to ask, if wow head and icy veins infro regarding talents, and openers, and rotations is reliable, or is there a better place to find quality info. Thanks

[pale fossil]

Or am I misunderstanding something?

[pale fossil]

Icy Veins is decent to get a feel, but where it disagrees with the pins, go with the pins imo.

And

[slow marsh]

Imo you're probably taking guardian + prot spec

[slate echo]

okay, thanks a bunch.

[slow marsh]

Either pally or necro war

[pale fossil]

You'd take Guardian over Monk?

[slow marsh]

Guardian + monk would be bis I think but not aure

Guardian for sure though

[azure bronze]

I think brew has gotten zero buffs in 9.1?

So that means WW is probably still the better pick overall

[slow marsh]

Brew is being buffed indirectly. They were already decent just not better than other classes

[azure bronze]

Unless they drop off immensely

in terms of dps

[slow marsh]

Havoc could take the ww slot to free up brew

[dawn ivy]

oh you havent done enough research if you think darkness isnt going to be very strong going into next raid lol

[pale fossil]

I guess that's kinda the thing, right? You want one Monk/DH/Warrior, but not more than one of any of them haha, so you'd want two to tank.

But if Guardian's too good that means two need to be DPS.

[azure bronze]

Blizz just needs to buff the shit out of MW monk

problem fixed

[slow marsh]

Yeah guardian is too good so

I think you could go with any combo just not vdh

[pale fossil]

I know our VDH is planning to run go Prot Warrior for 9.1, and I think our Brew will stay Brew.

[slow marsh]

I mean obviously for most guilds it doesn't super matter but for optimizing I don't think you can pass on the guardian damage. At least from what I've seen so far

It's interesting for sure. I've never super cared about comps in general but I guess there's nothing else to do right now so why not

[pale fossil]

Yeah, I mean it probably only matters for top 200 guilds, but theorycrafting during down time is fun haha

[azure bronze]

Prot pala does more damage then Guardian druid though

from the raid testing I saw

[slow marsh]

Yeah it does

I think prot pally guardian is the highest damage tank combo

[pale fossil]

Any chance people are going to run Blood with the way AMZ works now? Or is that not realistic?

[azure bronze]

Nah don't think so

[pale fossil]

I guess UDK would need to be worse at damage for that to make sense.

[slow marsh]

People are looking to play blood but moreso cuz they couldn't play it this patch. Not because optimizing

[azure bronze]

UHDK still top tier damage

Plus a bunch of the fights in the new raid have tanking mechanics that require mobility

[slow marsh]

Yep

[pale fossil]

I've heard there's a lot of "run away with the bomb" mechanics.

[azure bronze]

On the more difficult fights yeah

[placid cobalt]

is there any word on how strong the sylvanas weapon is yet? i noticed on ptr the tooltip does around 300 dmg on proc...

[echo geyser]

is there any way for me to evaluate if zoldycks or doomblade is better for me on sire?

is it based on Kill timer?

[warm parcel]

why would kill time affect it

[azure bronze]

Take the tooltip currently with a grain of salt, it can be changed/buffed/etc still

[alpine latch]

Kill time would effect any execute mechanic.

[warm parcel]

no

[echo geyser]

if u kill faster u get less time in 35%?

[warm parcel]

what

[placid cobalt]

@azure bronze i hope so because currently it has no secondary stats either, im no theorycrafter but it doesnt really look good to me XD

[warm parcel]

boss still has 30% of his health below 30%

no matter if its 1m or 100m

[alpine latch]

You gain damage longer, though.

[warm parcel]

dude

its still 30%

nothing changes

[alpine latch]

Correct. But 30% over 1 minute or 12 minutes is clearly different

[warm parcel]

no

it isnt

[pale fossil]

What's your raid composition? Does your raid have to stop DPS toward the end of Phase 1 or Phase 2?

[azure bronze]

You can sim execute damage and see if zoldycks wins out on DB, then decide if your guild is comfortably reaching the 37% before phase 3 starts. If yes you could consider using zoldycks to increase phase 3 damage

[echo geyser]

its a farm but im new to assa

so no problems in killing the boss

[pale fossil]

If you're on farm I'd go DB. DB is more damage throughout the whole fight, Zoldyk is just better in P3.

[azure bronze]

^^ basically

[placid cobalt]

doomblade absolutely then

[pale fossil]

You can squeeze out enough damage from Zoldyk to make it competitive by focusing low HP adds and whatnot but DB is overall better.

[echo geyser]

but still if a boss lasts longer in 30% compared to not how would i not gain more dmg from zoldyck?

@warm parcel

[alpine latch]

It would, you can literally fucking Sim it and prove it

[placid cobalt]

depends on group and gear but if they're geared i doubt u get much value from sub 30% hp adds

[alpine latch]

Kill time absolutely changes it's value

[echo geyser]

yeah i mean its logical

[warm parcel]

no

people please

this is grade school math

[pale fossil]

You don't get much value, I just mean you get a little bit to make it more of a discussion.

[warm parcel]

30 out of 100 is 30% just like 300 out of 1000 is 30%

[pale fossil]

But yeah DB is more damage overall.

[echo geyser]

yeah im not saying the effect is lessened

[slow marsh]

it is actually because even though the boss hp is the same, the raid wide damage will vary which affects your singular dps

[echo geyser]

im just saying youd gain less on a short fight compared to a long fight below 30

[whole bluff]

You might have more damage dealt overall but the dps is still gonna be the same in p3 no matter how long it is

[echo geyser]

like yeah it still does 30% extra dmg to ur dots

[alpine latch]

Except for the fact that if you're only getting a damage bonus for 10% of the fight length versus 30% of the fight length, that completely changes the value.

[warm parcel]

dude

no

if boss has less health

[echo geyser]

explain pls

[warm parcel]

youre not suddenly spending only 5% of the time below 30%

what the fuck

[echo geyser]

its not about health its the timer

[alpine latch]

^

[pale fossil]

Well sure, but DPS is a time measurement. If you spent 5% of the fight killing the first 70% of the bosses health, and 95% of the fight killing the last 30%, your DPS will be higher than if the time spent was 50/50.

[echo geyser]

same hp but more time spent in 30% execute

[pale fossil]

The same is true at less extreme intervals.

[slow marsh]

I think boss hp isn't what the original question was though

it was kill time

[alpine latch]

Correct, and kill time matters

Weak is saying it doesn't

[echo geyser]

yeah i never mentioned hp

[slow marsh]

Boss hp doesn't matter but kill time does

[warm parcel]

I mean by your logic the kill time only suddenly changes when boss hits sub 30

[pale fossil]

I mean, the P3 kill time can be elongated relative to P1/2 because of mechanics or raid deaths.

[slow marsh]

Slow kill time means raid is doing less damage overall which means you are likely going to get more overall damage out during execute compared to others right? IDK

[warm parcel]

overall damage doesnt fucking matter

its dps you wanna look at

lol

[alpine latch]

....

I can't even

"Overall damage doesn't matter, but damage relative to time does lol"

[slow marsh]

Regardless the answer is zold

[pale fossil]

I think Weak's point is that if you're taking 10 minutes or 1 minute to kill the whole boss, but the proportion within that of P3 time is the same, your DPS doesn't change.

You're talking past each other.

[slow marsh]

Because multiple adds that you're dotting up you'll end up getting more value from zold vs doom unless you're just parsing on reclear

[pale fossil]

The answer is Zoldyk for Progression or Doomblade for max DPS over the course of the whole fight.

[slow marsh]

yee

[ionic kelp]

and taking hidden blades to pad p1 hard af

[slow marsh]

Oh yeah that too

[echo geyser]

is it just me or is this red ink power rly good in torghast? says 30% more dmg from poisons and bleed

its just a common power

[pale fossil]

It's pretty good, but the chain link one is better I think. It's also common and you get 150% increased damage from your next builder after a finisher.

[echo geyser]

maybe its got shit uptime

i read it as perma lol

[placid cobalt]

i mean, it's really pointless discussion when you can just look at logs and see that 95% of the people in top 100 play doomblade

execute can be good if you're progressing there and want to squeeze as much as possible in p3

the p3 gain is not comparable to the dmg loss in p1-p2 in terms of overall damage

[warm parcel]

so

[normal crater]

Lens>all in torg lmao

[warm parcel]

if boss spends twice the amount sub 30

[stoic needle]

Lens is busted

[warm parcel]

you gain twice the dmg from shackles

yes

but

not like doomblade suddenly doesnt work anymore

it also doubles in raw damage when the time spent in execute is doubled

aka

it doesnt matter

[pale fossil]

Not to open another can of worms, but I think the same logic is why most top logs run EP/Vigor instead of BS/DS. The latter is arguably better in P3 but requires a big P1/P2 tradeoff.

[warm parcel]

no

top logs simply use whats higher overall

hence its a top log

[pale fossil]

That's, uh, what I just said haha

[slow marsh]

Top logs are top logs which is not generally what you should look at when you're progging imo

[pale fossil]

Agree.

[stoic needle]

Bs isn't even hands down better in p3 btw

[pale fossil]

Also true.

[slow marsh]

If you have no idea wtf you're doing then sure copy pasta top logs

[stoic needle]

Because of all of the downtime that makes you pool and possibly overcap

[pale fossil]

Some of it's strategy-dependent. I don't think we had a ton of downtime on P3 other than Blood Prices.

[slow marsh]

I can see the EP>BS because of movement/bloodprice/knocks

Plus the increased value p1-p2

[simple wadi]

Let’s be honest - the difference between relevant legendaries is dwarfed by variance in player skill

[placid cobalt]

@pale fossil the thing is, sims approximate reality but playing the game is a different story. I personally did top 30 world on sire with Necrolord covenant and EP/vigor with doomblade leggo

i think EP is good in p1 because when u get lifted up by boss u can pool more

[simple wadi]

You going zold or DB ain’t netting you a kill

[placid cobalt]

with 170 energy if u know what i mean

[pale fossil]

I mean, obviously, but the point of the discussion is to bridge some of that gap by optimizing your loadout.

[stoic needle]

A lot of the value in bs is from the energy efficiency and extra cp. If you're forced to pool the benefit from bs is reduced

[pale fossil]

I'm shit at the game so I need to optimize to be able to kill the boss lol

[slow marsh]

I mean part of player skill is knowing your class though imo

[echo geyser]

yeah my initial question was just how can i tell what is better for me, in a farm environment

im deciding wether to craft an outlaw lego or just make zoldyck now

[pale fossil]

Yeah, I agree. We just killed M Sire for the first time yesterday and I ran EP/Vigor/Zoldyk because I agree with your logic.

[placid cobalt]

@echo geyser you can just filter logs for your covenant and see what the top parsers use, and imitate

[cerulean nest]

why is doomblade better for TOP over zold?

just smaller packs?

[echo geyser]

@placid cobalt yeah i just wasnt sure if i can apply it to my raid rly have no clue about these legos

[alpine latch]

Smaller packs, more mini bosses

[placid cobalt]

as i said earlier pretty much everyone in top 100 uses doomblade, so if your goal is to top details that's what you should use

[pale fossil]

My parse was garbo, but the worst rogue that kills M Sire is still CE 🙂

[vast forum]

tbf, what's better doesn't always mean what does more damage 😄

[alpine latch]

ToP/PF both use a lot of Doomblades over Zolds

[cerulean nest]

huh okay

[vast forum]

in general, doomblade will be better simply because very few guilds struggle with p3 dps on farm

[cerulean nest]

i guess it makes sense

[echo geyser]

yeah i guess i dont need zolds then

[simple wadi]

Are you necro?

[echo geyser]

can craft next patch

yep i am necro

[pale fossil]

Especially post-nerf the DPS check isn't all that tight anymore anyway.

[simple wadi]

Optimizing your sbs will net you better parses than worrying about lengendaries imo

[echo geyser]

SLG seems like the only clear cut zoldyck winner then

[pale fossil]

Is Zold not better on Sun King?

[limber lion]

Nah not on prog

[ionic kelp]

for parsing ya i can see it, but ya not on prog

[limber lion]

You want blasters for sheilds

[pale fossil]

For parsing, is it basically DB on everything except SLG/maybe SKS?

[neon siren]

Is there any reason to not FoK on 2 targets? does it affect auto attacks or anything?

[pale fossil]

The combo point per energy odds are not in your favor I don't think.

[neon siren]

say for example i had 45% crit with FoK >:)

[stoic needle]

Still no

[neon siren]

decent odds of getting the same about of cp for 35energy instead of 50, also deals more damage

[echo geyser]

ud also have 45% on mutilate then for extra cp as well

[neon siren]

-5% but yeh

[stoic needle]

You only fok on 4+

[neon siren]

running fok conduit

ok ty!

250pulls on slg so far so just trying something new

[stoic needle]

Fok conduit is bad

You spend a lot of time on slg mutilating, getting zero value from PK

But you always get value from LP or sudden fractures

[neon siren]

okty

[limber lion]

And Council

[pale fossil]

Oh, Zoldyk's better on Council? Good to know.

[amber mountain]

You get 3 boss level execute windows 🙂

[pale fossil]

• a hot mess of adds

[amber mountain]

Yeah, but i'd think MA is almost as good for the adds

[shy dust]

No

[shy dust]

Doesn’t work like that

[stoic needle]

It's the same HP total as a regular boss

[shy dust]

3 execute windows doesnt mean you’re gaining more value from zoldyck

[amber mountain]

Hrm, I suppose that's true

[pale fossil]

That's kinda what threw me off haha.

[echo geyser]

i know this is all speculation and all, its mostly cause of curiosity

but on aoe fights ud probably opt for zoldycks right? future raid

wouldnt u be usually better off playing outlaw?

[stoic needle]

Depends

On where the most important damage is

Just cuz a fight is aoe doesn't mean you automatically play an aoe legendary or outlaw

[subtle gyro]

its not better on council? im misinformed

[drowsy coral]

Probably deathspike legendary . o 0 ()

[pale fossil]

Yeah, like Sire's nominally an AoE fight but the most important damage by far is the ST damage, so you still want DB (ignoring relative value of phases).

[stoic needle]

Also

[urban geode]

Any Sims out on the dagger yet?

[stoic needle]

Sin does better 2 target cleave and better 6+ target aoe then outlaw

So there's only really that weird 3-5 target area where outlaw is better

[echo geyser]

i see

[stoic needle]

If I'm gonna be honest blade flurry should be uncapped

Cuz outlaw should be better in aoe in more situations if it's the 'aoe spec'

[shy dust]

Depends on what the raid needs

Outlaw might bring more overall damage to a fight but that’s not what’s always needed

[echo geyser]

yeah i was just thinking of zoldycks in particular

its mostly excelling on execute needed scenarios right?

over just "raw" aoe output

[stoic needle]

If I could balance all 3 specs I would change them so that

ST: Sub > sin > outlaw
Cleave: sin = outlaw > sub
Aoe: outlaw > sub = sin
Burst damage: sub > sin > outlaw

[pale fossil]

Well, Assassin already wants you to spread bleeds around to generate energy, so you're in AoE situations you're getting a lot of execute value. It's a combination of the two.

[stoic needle]

And make the differences fairly dramatic

Otherwise you get into situations like the current one where you ask why you'd bring an outlaw rogue at all

[pale fossil]

And just laugh when asked if you would bring a sub rogue

[stoic needle]

It just seems like blizzard wants every spec to be okay in every damage profile

Which is boring as shit to me

[lusty bane]

I just want them to stop favoring ranged and either deciding to uncap everyone or cap everyone

[pale fossil]

Agree, but it's a tough balance because some people are wedded to their spec and want some baseline level of viability in every profile.

[alpine latch]

I want them to pick a spec from every class, delete it, and rebuild a completely new spec from the ground up

[stoic needle]

Quite frankly I think they should just get over it and learn every spec of their class

[shy dust]

Cap is not even a big deal

WW is insane damage

Hunter was insane damage

[pale fossil]

What do you do with classes that only have one DPS spec, then? Does that one have to be a generalist?

[shy dust]

Fury is very good m+ damage

[stoic needle]

No

[shy dust]

The cap is not why some specs are so broken. They’re just very very overtuned

[stoic needle]

I do think removing blade flurry's cap would help it be competitive in large aoe situations with the other specs, that's the only reason why I mentioned it

And it's weird that our 'aoe spec' is worse at aoe than the other 2

[frail fossil]

which talent do u guys take for slg ?

[alpine latch]

Isn't Outlaw the best m+ spec for all of melee?

[limber lion]

Ep/ma/ds/alac/ct

Or vigor if you're scared.

[stoic needle]

WW absolutely on par if not better

[alpine latch]

So, it's tied for best

[limber lion]

WW def better in terms of damage

[alpine latch]

Wouldn't they want to buff OTHER specs, not just making Outlaw even better?

[stoic needle]

if we didnt have shroud we would be ded

[pale fossil]

I guess what I'm struggling with is that stratifying the profiles a lot makes it so that certain specs have a really hard time doing specific content. Outlaw would be even worse at PvP, Sub would suck more at M+, etc., but I guess that's solved if your solution is that people be able to freely build and play all specs.

[limber lion]

In terms of functionality/utility? Rogue probs

[shy dust]

From a damage pov for m+

WW is much more damage

[limber lion]

Outlaw does awful damage in comparison to the big boys.

[alpine latch]

Yeah, but we provide more utility with multiple stuns and shroud that WW can't match

really?

[limber lion]

With the old deathspike we were barely doing similar damage to fire mages

[alpine latch]

Since it's the top melee spec in terms of IO I figured it was a no-brainer it was the best

[limber lion]

And it got nerfed

[pale fossil]

WW is also more valuable damage because of the uncapped AoE and higher burst to deal with troublesome packs and big pulls, which is flexibility we don't offer.

[limber lion]

We don't pkay Outlaw for dps

[shy dust]

Being the best doesn’t always mean you do the Most damage

There are other reasons besides raw throughout for why you bring a spec

[stoic needle]

but ww also has a lot of cc

paralyze, ring of peace, leg sweep

[alpine latch]

Why is Outlaw better than Sin in m+, then? I figured it was specifically because it was better at cleave damage

[stoic needle]

they arent exactly lacking in the utility dept

[limber lion]

It is and it has a better kit overall

[stoic needle]

honestly only because of gouge and acrobatic strikes

[limber lion]

It does most damage out of all the specs that have shroud

[stoic needle]

the damage is similar between the 2 and outlaw is easier to play

[limber lion]

Doesn't mean it's great

[alpine latch]

Granted I'm not pushing, but as Sin I'm almost always #1 in every m+ I do (10-15s).

[cerulean junco]

and vanish can be used as defensive

[alpine latch]

I already have KSM so I'm not pushing my IO

[limber lion]

Very bad comparison

[alpine latch]

yeah

[limber lion]

I am also #1 on every dungeon

But that doesn't mean much

[alpine latch]

I know, but it's all I've ever really done. I don't ahve anything else to compare it to

[limber lion]

Go watch Ryfie do +25'd

[echo geyser]

is there anyone pushing as sin rogue in m+?

[alpine latch]

That's why I asked

[limber lion]

Yeh no worries

[cerulean junco]

Ryfie and wingsoflight

[alpine latch]

There's one guy that has like +25s

[thin imp]

other advantage of outlaw vs sin in m+ is they it delivers damage, sin has to rump up and outlaw is flat direct damage on demand

[limber lion]

Watch Ryfie for sin m+ and JPC for ol m+

[echo geyser]

o:

ever since seli started playing outlaw in m+ i thought sin was a meme

[alpine latch]

Yeah, OL is just "hit BF and do your standard ST rotation"

[limber lion]

Seli plays sin quite a bit lately

[echo geyser]

o:

[alpine latch]

Sin changes how you play, which I enjoy a lot. It's much different between bosses and packs

[pale fossil]

Yup. Sin does more damage if you're doing mechanics/dealing with downtime, but that's not really a thing in M+.

[limber lion]

Seli prefers Sin out of the two specs in fact

[alpine latch]

Seli sounds like a stand up individual

[limber lion]

He only plays Outlaw on some dungeons if he feels like it's a lot better for it

[alpine latch]

I know I liked them for some reason

[echo geyser]

yeah but performance w ise he still does outlaw right

sin might be more fun

[stoic needle]

at the highest level, theres less of a reason to play sin if it does only on par damage with outlaw and is harder to play

[echo geyser]

but isnt better

[lusty bane]

Havent touched outlaw much but the few times I just got lost in all my buffs lol. I’m so comfortable with Sin and enjoy it the most

[limber lion]

It is on some dungeons

[rapid prism]

Going into the new content what covenant is best for assa? Necro or venth? For raids.

[echo geyser]

o: which dung

[limber lion]

Stuff like

Hoa

Mists

Top

Pf

[echo geyser]

u run normal zolds for t hose?

[limber lion]

Yes

Except pf and top

[echo geyser]

damn maybe i craft zolds for m+

[alpine latch]

Put it on pants if you do

[limber lion]

You probably should

[alpine latch]

Pants doesn't have a SoD spot in 9.1, so it's safe.

[pale fossil]

Venthyr is better in raw ST, but Necro is better in every other situation.

[echo geyser]

i wanted to test a new outlaw lego cause it seems raid wise there wasnt too much point for zol atm

[pale fossil]

And even in some ST fights (like Sludgefist) Necro is better.

[alpine latch]

It just got a nerf to it last night

[stoic needle]

greenskin gaming

[alpine latch]

Not catastrophic, but impactful

[frail fossil]

when do u use vanish ?

[echo geyser]

i mean a current lego

not 9,1 one

[frail fossil]

on pull in st ?

[alpine latch]

Ohh, my bad

[echo geyser]

yes i wanted to try it

[stoic needle]

when the adds spawn, to use the MA crit buff to fok > envenom into boss or goliath, possibly rupturing the highest hp skirms

[thin imp]

it's been nerfed but probably still the go to for m+

[limber lion]

On pull immediately, in p2 bleed everything around you then vanish/vend

[primal zodiac]

would zolds be best for lowish keys aswell? 14-17, ive never done much sin in m+ in SL, but i liked it in bfa

[frail fossil]

kk

[primal zodiac]

and how is sbs used as sin, only know it as outlaw as well

[limber lion]

Rup - sbs - rup - sbs - rup - sbs - CT - gar - vend - shiv - vanish

[frail fossil]

trying my best for slg as assa

[thin imp]

sbs opener, and when crit buff

[limber lion]

Euring gemstones

Sbs as first gcd

[cerulean junco]

What was the nerf?

[limber lion]

Get em tiger!

[thin imp]

instead of hitting 2 additional it only hits one now

[pale fossil]

Also don't overcap

[alpine latch]

Only hits 1 additional target instead of 2

[cerulean junco]

Mmm

[frail fossil]

kinda trolled sludge, thought i was benched so didn't go with good gear/conduit sadge

[limber lion]

@frail fossil this was for you in p2

[strange python]

what would be a good first and overall raid legendary to craft as sin?

[primal zodiac]

thanks cev 🙂

[frail fossil]

i see on the adds spawn when intermission is done yeah ?

[limber lion]

No worries :(

[alpine latch]

Zoldyck's is our best overall

Doomblade is better forST

[limber lion]

Yeah

[alpine latch]

But you'll run Zold's in m+ and it's not bad in raid, it's just not the best.

[strange python]

I do m+ as outlaw so should I just go doomblade then?

[thin imp]

do you easily get 40 renown in a weekend right? I will reroll to necro but wanna be ready for sunday

[pale fossil]

It takes two resets (and you need to do the campaign) in my experience.

So take a weekend and get to 25 or whatever, and then finish after the reset.

[compact pumice]

I did go t4 Doomblade before even making a Zoldyck, since I also did m+ as OL

[alpine latch]

You farm renown til like 31, then start doing covenant campaign stuff/1k anima/collect soouls

[strange python]

are there more doomblade or Zoldyck fights in Nathria?

[pale fossil]

Are you parsing or progging?

[alpine latch]

Progression wise, you use Zolds more

Parsing wise, you use Doomblade more

[compact pumice]

I would really only use Zolds on Sire.

Doomblade on rest, except SLG

[strange python]

yeah sounds like Doomblade is the way to go for me

[pale fossil]

I think Zold is pretty important on Sludge if your raid is having trouble.

[shy dust]

Doomblade would be used much more for prog

[pale fossil]

Idk though.

[shy dust]

Zoldyck on sludge is awful

It’s a dps race

Not a sub 30% race

[compact pumice]

Sludge is shit for Zold

[strange python]

so I make doomblade hands with crit/haste right

[stoic needle]

doomblade is better for sludge

[alpine latch]

Probably, but be prepared to remake it in a few weeks

[strange python]

in 9.1?

[compact pumice]

Implying 9.1 will ever come out

[strange python]

would I have to remake zold aswell?

[pale fossil]

I'm not sure we know yet. We might end up using Dashing Scoundrel mostly haha

[alpine latch]

Not if you put it on your pants (and assuming you're not getting CE)

[stoic needle]

doomblade can be crafted on cloak now so doomblade is back on the menu

[alpine latch]

KT drops pants so that's not an ideal sport for it either

Is that official? i only saw Bloodfang got a new spot

[stoic needle]

there's no ideal spot for anything anymore

every legendary slot has its drawbacks

[alpine latch]

Yeah, so Doomblade will 100% be re-made the day it's possible

[spice spire]

Ahh yes the infamous draw bags

🙂

[alpine latch]

Hey, draw bags are amazing. That's why trash bags use them

[spice spire]

[strange python]

but disgregarding 9.1 since it's probably a myth at this point

doomblade goes hands?

[alpine latch]

I put mine on shoulders

I had really good gloves and I'm not getting to Mythic SLG so I didn't have to worry about it

[pale fossil]

People say hands because of the SLG shoulders, but this late in the tier if you're not killing M SLG it's not really an issue.

[wary seal]

can i get a link for bis items pls

[strange python]

so shoulders for more stats then

[alpine latch]

That's what I did, yeah. I wasn't going to get 233 shoulders from Mythic SLG so it made sense to make a r3 shoulder and call it a day

[stoic needle]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/droptimizer

[alpine latch]

Not sure something like that exists man. You'll probably have 10 different itemsets that are all within 50-100 DPS of each other.

This isn't Classic where you only have 3 options to pick from

[subtle karma]

Does someone know how alacrity works exactly ?
I have 27.06% base haste but with 5 alacrity stacks (+10% haste), I get 39.77% haste
why did I get 2% more haste ?

[warm parcel]

haste is multiplicative

[scarlet spade]

jesus thats a lot of haste

[warm parcel]

1,27*1,1

[subtle karma]

oh yeah
was it always like this ? bfa and previous expansions ?

[warm parcel]

as long as I member yes

[subtle karma]

thx

[thin imp]

what are others classes do you enjoy playing? What thinking on warlock, spriest and WW since I see some similarities

[sweet pecan]

finally got a spherule from sire heroic

so long outlaw

and so long grappling hook, i shall miss you most of all

[hazy ruin]

does anyone know what melee are lookin pog for next tier yet?

[silent fossil]

feral probably good since you can respec balance

[hazy ruin]

i heard balance is looking shit except for sylv

cuz of the boat nerf

and they gotta go venth now

[granite thistle]

Does anyone like helping people go through some logs and check to see what they may or may not be doing wrong? 🙂

[limber lion]

Honestly who knows.

[limber lion]

I do, but I'm busy currently :(

Weak does some log reviews, as well as Whispyr

[granite thistle]

I don't like bothering Whispyr too much. He gets bothered enough

[limber lion]

I leveled an affli lock and sp because I enjoy dot based combat, but I just can't get over casters.

I'll always be a melee boy.

[limber lion]

Feel free to send me the logs and I'll take a look tomorrow.

If you're not in a hurry.

[granite thistle]

Im chillin. Im swapping DK to Rogue. Just want to min max my best

I'll send soon.

[limber lion]

Yeah, but again I can't do em today. So no rush. :P

[granite thistle]

Np

[static acorn]

Just making sure, M Sludge, is it pull -> 2 -> 4 cds w/ 4 pillars and 1 -> 3 w/ 3?

[limber lion]

Yes sir.

Are you killing him on 3rd pillar?

Blaster group

[static acorn]

No clue, just got thru Council last night but wanted to make sure I knew what to do either way

It's possible we do though, really Council took so long because of mechanical failure not numbers

So it's possible

[limber lion]

Well, I doubt it

We kill it after 4th pillar

And my guild has been killing Sludge for 5 months now.

On farm

[pliant apex]

how much dps will i miss if i dont dot remonia?

[limber lion]

Killing it on 4th pillar, maybe.

[limber lion]

A lot

[pliant apex]

ohhh shit

[static acorn]

I mean given that all that damage shares to sire

and gives better energy gen

itll be pretty bigly loss

But yeah ty, wanted to make sure I had cd lineups properly

[echo geyser]

do u guys min max shiv on sire p2 to use right before a wracking pain?

its one of the big adds

like i just saw i did an envenom like 1-2sec before the debuff was applied

is it worth to just wait ?

[mighty hazel]

should i change 1 ofthem with this ?

[echo geyser]

sim it

[alpine latch]

[mighty hazel]

what

[alpine latch]

raidbots.com

Sim it

[mighty hazel]

its showing my old items :d

[amber mountain]

O.o just saw the change to Deathspike, what does that even mean? It launches an additional spike, so 1 extra target instead of 2? Still seems pretty strong

[alpine latch]

Yup, just changed from 2 to 1. Will still probably be the go-to for m+

only time will tell

[warm parcel]

I can always look at logs if Ive not yet scared yall away

[alpine latch]

Don't need to. I don't need logs to see that gaining 30% more damage for 30 seconds isn't as good as it is for 45 seconds.

[wise fiber]

Ok dummie question here. whats the proper way to analize a players LOG. to see all the abilities and buffs on a timeline ?

[warm parcel]

Ive not interest necroing the shckales convo

I was mainly talking to any person asking for logs to be looked at

And when looking at logs, you just look at what folks typically cast

And when

And uptimes and whatnot

[echo geyser]

could u take a look at my sire log and see what i can do better

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/RMPn2FxvTCgmcaK1#fight=31&type=damage-done

[warm parcel]

what is there to improve

[limber lion]

You just need to play around with the logs for some time and you'll figure it out.

[echo geyser]

that is what im asking

ive got no clue

[warm parcel]

gears solid

and overall seems you know fairly well what youre doing

[alpine latch]

For beginners, one of the best ways to start learning how to look logs is to pull up the log you want to view, click on the person, then click on "Compare". From there, use the "search parsers similar to yours" and select the person you want to review, and hit Search. Click someone you want to compare to, then start looking at things. Look the Casts tab to see what the uptime was. Do they have significantly higher uptime on dots than you do? Are you casting abilities they don't, lowering your overall damage?

Then, start looking at the timelines. Compare the openers, etc.

[warm parcel]

could play ct if you wanna go for parses

it offers fair bit in p2

mfd aswell

if you can utilise it

[echo geyser]

im used to playing mfd but im afraid im gonna feel slow since im used to outlaw

i couldnt stand deeper

[warm parcel]

seems you even kept alac before dropping down

[echo geyser]

thats an outlaw habit yes

m+ rather

[warm parcel]

its a good one

sin players may miss it as you press snd once

[echo geyser]

u reckon its mostly not playing CT then?

[warm parcel]

theres some minor accidents by the looks of it

[alpine latch]

@limber lion It's depressing when you look at logs and see you killed a boss 8 seconds slower, have better uptime than the other person, and they smoke you in DPS by 600. lol

[warm parcel]

like you rup sire twice in 4 globals

[echo geyser]

yeah hes parrying

[warm parcel]

oh

but you mut twice in between

could be just missed tab too

idno

[echo geyser]

possibly

[wise fiber]

Thank you this was the answer i was looking!

[echo geyser]

but i remember getting parried some shit in a row this try

[warm parcel]

but yea ct and/or mfd should yield higher p2

and also lets you pad p1 somewhat aswell

[alpine latch]

There are a few videos on YouTube that break down log reviews and show you the intricate nature of things. Long and insanely detailed, but also extremely effective.

[echo geyser]

i think i need to rly stand behind his back a lot more

im not used to playing melee in raid

hunter doesnt have this shit

[warm parcel]

I also have no clue how this other tac goes

We dont do 2 horsemen in a row so our p2 is different

But like you do the usual

Keep up dots on all enemies you want to

[sullen garden]

Any Necrolord Sing rogues who can care their keybinding setup?

[warm parcel]

Like theres nothing alarming

[echo geyser]

2 envenoms parry doesnt sound too bad right

[warm parcel]

Spike parry hurts the most

[echo geyser]

out of 98

shiv can also get parried right?

[warm parcel]

it can ye

did you ven twice in p2?

[sweet pecan]

so the wavendoldt guide does not mention snd in the combo points section.. is this intended or am i missing something?

[warm parcel]

cause you could get 2 vens in p3 for more p3 dmg

[echo geyser]

first add then one time on sire

[sweet pecan]

hehe wavendoldt

uwu

[warm parcel]

ye then you could save a ven for p3

ven insta

and then ven should be up again for melee lust

[echo geyser]

i think we pop earlier than 2min or does the log say?

[warm parcel]

but thats just if you wanna get more p3 out, other than that its no big deal

you go down at before 7 mins

melee lust assuming its the second one is at 8:30

so it should carry to your ven

[echo geyser]

currently my 2nd vendetta in p2 has the 2 adds so i can funnel sbs envenom not sure if worth?

[warm parcel]

for parses your vens may very well be better

Idno bout the way you do the fight

I just ven twice for p3 cause I value p3

[limber lion]

Yeah, a lot of things can be in play there. If it's an add heavy fight then padding is super important to get good logs, as well as any possible externals, difference in gear etc

But practice makes perfect

[limber lion]

Same. I was actually considering using vend for a second time in p2 to get the last Vendetta better alligned with the lust and all the downtime. But I just sticked to doing it twice in P3 instead.

Still not exactly sure what I wanna do cd-wise on Sire after the nerfs.

[warm parcel]

I mean ven on horse man is +50% unless logs filter it out

And ye better lust timing if it otherwise sucks

[limber lion]

Yeh

I got 6.8k in p3 today, but I feel like it could be better if I moved some stuff around.

Need to do some research for next weeks pull.

[warm parcel]

We had no lust in p3 today

[limber lion]

[warm parcel]

Someone used drums last 20 sec

[amber mountain]

I hate drums 😕 But I carry ~10 at all times because they're better than nothing

[warm parcel]

And ye my highest p3 was 6.7

Suppose I could get to 7k with better gear and setup for p3

[pliant apex]

ive noticed heroic sire is generally a hard fight to parse as sin rogue

theres so much going on

its really difficult , or so it seems to me

[frail fossil]

probably not as sin rogue, but it's a bit hard for less comfortable to make sure to be on the right pace, keep dots up and stuff

[pliant apex]

yea i mean its hard to track remonia to keep dots up on her

shes doing so many things ..

then making sure dots dont fall on sire, using cds etc, i have on use trink, making sure i dont miss it smh

[echo geyser]

yo does the internal bleeding talent work for doomblade?

[stoic needle]

yes but its not really worth running over iron wire

[compact pumice]

Yeah maybe in PVP

It's pretty good burst then

Where you actually use KS on cd

[soft shale]

deathspike seemed quite good in pvp

even with the nerf

[strange python]

is the loss of haste for necro sin just not worht it in 9.1?

[unique sleet]

Bonesmith in all content? Or only raid

[soft shale]

heirmir quite good

assa just does not have great conduits

[sweet pecan]

is the idea that we never have to use snd because cut to the chase gives us so much time it never falls off?

[frail fossil]

pvp u go emeni

[frail fossil]

yes

[sweet pecan]

do you get the 3 seconds even when snd is not up?

that would be too easy right|

no way

[unique sleet]

What about in M+ what potency do I use. Shiv still or swap to Bonespike?

Or Fan of Knives?

[echo geyser]

sbs potency always

aka sudden fractures

isnt it bis for ST too?

apart from sludgefist where u play shiv

my well placed steel is only 213 tho

[compact pumice]

Heirmir Gem with Sudden Fractures pretty much for all content is a good bet

Very niche cases you can go double potency emeni

[echo geyser]

what would the 2nd potency be with emeni?

[compact pumice]

Depends on the content

Pure AOE for some reason would be the FOK one

WPS or LP are good ones though

[echo geyser]

i see

do ppl use that for m+ then?

[compact pumice]

No, Sudden Fractures + Heirmir

The 2 potency Emeni is just for very niche stuff

It's pretty much just the best soulbind with 2x potency atm, so whenever a potency becomes better than Gemstone, which is very rare, then that would be the pick

[echo geyser]

i see

[sweet pecan]

any way to make a macro only do a /cast when im in a party?

[echo geyser]

what kind of ability is that?

[sweet pecan]

basically i want a macro tht adds vendetta and vanish in 1, but i dont want to vanish in the open world while fighting, i want to keep it for utility. so i only would use vanish when in a party, or raid/dungeon or something group content

[echo geyser]

but u dont wanna macro vendetta and vanish together tho?

or am i missing something

[sweet pecan]

i want to press 1 macro do both vanish and vendetta, ONLY when im in a party. if im not i only want to vendetta

is there like a [party] condition or something?

[echo geyser]

when u talk about this it makes me think that im playing wrong

are u supposed to press shiv > vendetta vanish in same gcd > envenom?

[sweet pecan]

guide says to try and cast them together, and considering they are the same length adding them would work

[echo geyser]

yeah thats what im thinking about now

[alpine latch]

Can't you just get better at the rotation and not rely on a macro?

It's not like you're hitting 400 buttons a minute

[sweet pecan]

hey

if i want to write the next great american novel while raiding, thats my business

[alpine latch]

Talk to text man

[oak sky]

plus what if youre playing subterfuge in m+ then you dont really always want to directly sync them

[sweet pecan]

m+? changing talents ever?

optimized gameplay? nani de fuc?

[alpine latch]

I love looking at Subcreation and seeing that Sin is worse than Arms Warrior in m+

[stoic needle]

good thing those tier lists are absolutely meaningless

[alpine latch]

I know that. A lot of people don't.

And it impacts which specs theyinvite

[stoic needle]

the whole site should be deleted tbh

[dawn ivy]

i havent looked at that site once lmao

didnt even know this existed

[sweet pecan]

found it

appearently [group] is a thing, you can even specify party or raid

[alpine latch]

👍

[dawn ivy]

im intrigued to ask how/why you need something so specific

[sweet pecan]

i want a macro that casts vanish and vendetta in 1 button

but only vanish when im in a group

[stoic needle]

i think you're just making a macro that will make you play badly

you don't cast vanish and vendetta together all the time

[sweet pecan]

cause when im not, i dont want to reset the mob health

and keep vanish for utility

[silent fossil]

lol 100% a 2 bind situation there

[dawn ivy]

you dont gain anything from pressing vanish the instant you pop vendetta

[stoic needle]

you usually want to vendetta before vanishing, not at the same time

[silent fossil]

i would only invest in the jank muti/ambush / other weird macro situations if there's some kind of physical disability present. otherwise learning to use more binds will help you a lot

[crisp creek]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

In general simming yourself is the recommended way to determine stat weights.
The following is a general recommendation, but you will always get more accurate results through simulation.
Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[brazen rampart]

Is it likely we'll be recrafting doomblade on another slot due to raid loot? Haven't checked the loot tables myself

[echo geyser]

im hoping they let us scrap or get back if we get fucked by that

seems bit unfair to lose 5 weeks of torghast cause its such a boring task

[gloomy knoll]

doomblade prob gonna swap to cape

knawmean

[echo geyser]

yeah for sure

just a question of if we get some refund

[drowsy parcel]

soul ash is farmable i think no?

in 9.1

i mean infinite

[echo geyser]

yeah but the farm was done

[silent fossil]

scrapping and stat swapping on legendaries will be added in the 3rd tier like legendary QoL in legion

[echo geyser]

the time will be forever lost

[drowsy parcel]

true

[silent fossil]

i made haste/verse doomblade gloves when i first swapped assass w/o giving it that much thought because of my haste/vers outlaw legendaries. got lucky that haste/vers ended up = to haste/crit for my profile

[limber lion]

[peak wasp]

anyone have a good rupture and slice and dice w/a they can share? please

[limber lion]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[balmy condor]

[ruby birch]

i just came to say

im 10 soul ash off of my r4 crit haste doomblade

and this game is dogshit

back to never touching retail until 9.1

[stoic needle]

You're smoking some good copium if you think blizzard will give us a soul ash refund

It's free money for them to not offer one

[ruby birch]

the price i pay for having god knows how many legendaries

[warm parcel]

soul ash is meaningless in 91

you can literally send it from any char

or just farm endlessly

[ruby birch]

yeah there's no point for me to even farm soul ash rn

[stoic needle]

Well there's diminishing returns on soul ash

From extra runs

Eventually you get zero

[ruby birch]

they're also increasing gains by 100%

[stoic needle]

But still

It's not infinitely farmable

[echo geyser]

was there any indication of being able to farm a r4 in 1 sitting?

like was it a weekly reset on DR or just daily?

[frosty bridge]

I am 85% sure we’ll see at least 1 Rogue in RWF

I wonder if they upgrade Zoldyck or Doomblade to higher ranks first

Or well, not just them

Us roguey bois in general for progress

[balmy condor]

so does that mean you're 100% sure we'll see 0.85 of a a rogue?

[frosty bridge]

0.85 of a rogue = feral druid

And that sounds quite unlikely

[balmy condor]

feral druid in RWF

[frosty bridge]

[warm parcel]

havent you heard

feral (owlweave) (polearmweave) is topping charts

[balmy condor]

feral (moonkind owlweave) (guardian lego) (bloodtalons) (weapon swap) (giga snapshot) (chinese strat)

[warm parcel]

[spice spire]

U wot

[balmy condor]

(secret) (hidden op) (nerfed for sure)

[spice spire]

#assassination message

[versed mica]

The day where feral druid is taken to RWF is the day I quit the game forever

Feral being taken instead of rogue*

[dense cedar]

Cat power

Sin is just a fancy cat

uses daggers instead of their hands

[strange moss]

on sludge do you have to reapply bleeds during increased damage phase or do they not snapshot?

[balmy condor]

they don't snapshot

[dense cedar]

9.1 they give poisons and shiv to Feral

[somber breach]

Late to the show I know but, how does the necro covy look for sin once hitting the next renown cap? potential 6% execute buff pair with zoldyks? Do we have any info on that?

[ancient peak]

is shiv worth using in aoe?

[echo geyser]

if u are after prio dmg and will use envenoms yeah why not

for pure aoe? no idea

[stoic needle]

I think it's neither a gain or a loss to use it in aoe but whispyr can correct me

[echo geyser]

it sounds like a waste if u are not gonna use envenoms tbh

1 cp for 20% nature dmg

thats mainly envenom right?

while a gcd could be fok for cp or CT/rupture for dmg

rly need to watch some assa pov for keys

[oak sky]

i usually just use it on a prio target

[echo geyser]

the more i play it in raid it seems fun

[oak sky]

cant go wrong with that

[normal crater]

I highly recommend @warped temple

Ryfietv

[stoic needle]

The target takes more damage from your poisons, both the dot and instant hits. So when you fok it will take more damage. And it's not really waste especially if you're at 4cp and want to get to 5

[echo geyser]

true makes u finish at nice cp

[stoic needle]

Shiv itself does okay damage

[echo geyser]

but dont ppl run full crit mastery in keys?

im rly clueless

[stoic needle]

They do

It does okay damage regardless of your stats

[echo geyser]

i guess the targetcap fucks it anyways so u cant relibly get the max cp with foks

[stoic needle]

The more mastery you have the more damage you gain on the target you shiv from the poison

[echo geyser]

dont u naturally end up doing envenoms at some point after u got lots of bleeds up anyway?

[stoic needle]

If you're a mouseover gamer, you can shiv a target and keep autoing it for more instant poison procs while fok and spreading ruptures and garottes to other targets

And yeah you envenom to extend snd which happens semi frequently and when things are closer to dying

[gusty mirage]

yeah, once you get a buncha bleeds up you'll pump out envenoms naturally if you have high enough crit

only time envenoming sparsely will be an issue is if you end up getting shit rng on your fok crits

[molten moon]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[mint frigate]

hi guys, any changes for 9.1?

[lean coral]

yes

[mint frigate]

dx what changes

[late grove]

for sludgefist M, why is elaborate planning the go to? (based on top logs)

the 10% amp is better than maybe getting a ambush proc during the pillar?

[tulip nacelle]

yes

[balmy condor]

Not for sin

[late grove]

why do so many people use sudden fractures for sludgefist compared to well-placed steel?

[whole bluff]

Prob lazy

[balmy condor]

Yeah, lazy

[twilit valve]

Hi Guys I just get back to assasination rogue and I have a question about stats actually I have 33% crit and 22 haste for Raid shall i get more hast and less Crit? if you can help me? appreciate

[balmy condor]

Should sim yourself

[twilit valve]

I did but I have the feeling that more an more rogue play with higher haste

I just wanted your opinions on this 🙂

[balmy condor]

My opinion is that you should sim yourself

There’s no breakpoints or anything

So 33% haste? That’s fine

20%? That’s fine

15%? That’s fine

[twilit valve]

thx mate I will run more sim to check it out

[balmy condor]

Yup yup

Top gear

[limber lion]

!defensive

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Defensives: http://tiny.cc/x8rytz

[limber lion]

[hollow river]

Oo is it done?

[balmy condor]

[hollow river]

O: so nice and neat

[vestal wren]

should we specify it more with sth like "Rogue Defensive applicability" ?

[balmy condor]

Applicability feels clunky

[vestal wren]

practicality ?

[balmy condor]

Usage?

[vestal wren]

usability would work y

[balmy condor]

Sure

[balmy condor]

Ty

[west cove]

is 3 target fok is good idea with zoldyck and poisoned katar?

[balmy condor]

No

[west cove]

why? it seems from tooltip that 3 target fok surpasses mut’s damage?

[balmy condor]

It’s also way less cp

[west cove]

sadge

[balmy condor]

I think it might be worth specifically during execute

But it’s such a random min-max for very little gain

[vestal wren]

isn't the apl using fok on 3?

[balmy condor]

To apply poisons

Not to generate full time

I thought about katar + Lp + zoldyck

And simmed it

But couldn’t find anything

[modern heart]

thinking of coming back to sin boys. fk unholy dk

[quaint carbon]

just got enough renom for gemstone. should i try to ST burst during gemstone or burst on CD and gemstone will come with it? what about m+ usage?

[balmy condor]

The only thing you care about with gemstone is casting sbs on single target

If you have charges in single target, you dump during gemstone

Otherwise don’t worry bout it

[quaint carbon]

okay so i just try to dump the most SBS during gemstone

[balmy condor]

Yeah

Putting the dot up on other targets is more important though

So if no dot, sbs, if everything dotted, sbs during gemstone

[south hollow]

How should a damage breakdown look like in single target?

[limber lion]

Sim yourself in ST to get an idea

[dark crag]

Huge spike at start and then flat with tiny mini spikes every shiv use with huge spike every 2 min vendetta use

[limber lion]

Quick sim in Raidbots shows damage breakdown

[fallen arch]

Not really huge spike, we’re no fire mages or convoke chickens here

[night prawn]

Is it okay to shiv at 5cp when the cd comes up?

[limber lion]

Yes.

[night prawn]

Dope. So like toxic blade then?

[limber lion]

As long as you press it on cooldown.

It is Toxic Blade.

It's literally the same ability :p

Just different icon/name

[night prawn]

yeah just wanted to find out if something changed. Just picked up sin again. Thanks for the answer! 🙂

[limber lion]

Yeah, no worries.

[gloomy fern]

im so confused

[neat pulsar]

Do you use a WA to keep track of gemstones ? Didn't know we have to use SBS at this moment

[teal bloom]

Yes, you should use weakaura for that

That rogue defensive usability thingy looks very useful especially if it's updated for the new raid when it comes out

[limber lion]

About? Did I miss something?

[gloomy fern]

no im just trolling

[limber lion]

Yes, here's a good one that many use (including myself): http://www.wago.io/MarrowedGemstone

[gloomy fern]