assassination

[alpine latch]

Is it? Because there was an entire post talking about disabling Plater and it fixed it

[limber lion]

Linkerino pepperino

[amber mountain]

I also don't tend to run WA's grabbed from wago.io, i've been building my own on an as needed basis. So I'm not exactly WA heavy

[limber lion]

I've heard of people playing without nameplates at all

[alpine latch]

lemme find it

[limber lion]

And still getting destroyed

by the lag

[amber mountain]

Plater is something I use extensively. Again, with a plate setup I built myself to deal with my colourblind issues

The default UI is garbo for colourblind people

[spice spire]

KUI default works well for me

It’s in plater but it’s nice

[amber mountain]

I used KUI for a while, but I needed more flexibility

[spice spire]

Oh no, it’s the KUI look, someone did a string for plater

[amber mountain]

Ah

[spice spire]

Ye

It’s much better than the default, I’m also colorblind

[vestal wren]

i mean it rly comes down to how far we want to go down the rabbit hole.
e.g. i know its common to use those "raid mechanic" weakauras, they are known to have performance impact and often caused crashes or other issues

[amber mountain]

That would have made my customizations easier 😛 Since I made it look as close to KUI as I could at the start

[knotty flame]

I never had an issue past the first big set of adds on denny. But boy was that first set a Fiesta

[amber mountain]

I've never run Daddy D on Mythic... soooo I've only ever dipped as far as ~90fps on the fight?

[vestal wren]

to be clear, i have no obligation to tell anyone what he should use.
my point is literally that you can get better performance by using standalone addons instead of elv or weakauras

[amber mountain]

I couldn't use ElvUI, my brother swore by it for ages because it was "clean"

Then I shared my UI that I've built using bartender, Plater, and custom WA and he's sworn off ElvUI 🙂

[vestal wren]

there are other addons that are also very bad in performance, cough raven

[hollow river]

Elv UI is just incredibly customizable

[knotty flame]

It is but it's basically a group of add-ons that already exist

[vestal wren]

the selling point of elvui is that you have a great out of the box experience

[amber mountain]

Sure, but the barrier to entry was just too high for me to be bothered 🙂

[limber lion]

I do also love Assassination.

It is my favorite spec after all.

[hollow river]

I did NOT have a great out of the box experience

[vestal wren]

and a suit that covers several elements (action bar, unit frames, other ui elements)

[limber lion]

And I have played Assassination since Cataclysm

[hollow river]

AT ALL

[limber lion]

It is such a fun spec

[amber mountain]

bringing it back on topic

[limber lion]

Any assa gamers in the chat?

[hollow river]

Nope

[vestal wren]

assassination has better <forbidden word>

[limber lion]

[hollow river]

Assassination has better Voldemort’s?

[harsh anchor]

I miss 8.3 exsang

[limber lion]

I do too, buddy

[vestal wren]

no... the forbidden word starts with a S

[limber lion]

⚖️

[hollow river]

O.o

[thorny pond]

Like a snake

[amber mountain]

So, wrists for Deathspike in 9.1?

[limber lion]

Who knows.

[thorny pond]

"Will Deathspike scale in 9.1?"

[limber lion]

They're adding new slots to legendaries, so it's not certain

[amber mountain]

I mean, just looking at the current slots etc

[vestal wren]

deathspike is an interesting design

[amber mountain]

Wrist looks like the spot right now, if they don't add more slots to it

[hollow river]

They better make leggos refundable then

[limber lion]

Maybe.

[vestal wren]

because its so bad on st but so good with multiple

[limber lion]

I love Deathspike.

Such a fun legendary

[hollow river]

Or I’m sitting at 190 on my doomblade gloves til 9.1

[limber lion]

Actually alters your gameplay in some way

[amber mountain]

I played with it on the PTR, it's bonkers

[limber lion]

Unlike Doomblade.

[iron orchid]

I love it too

[knotty flame]

It's weird to think this tier has gone on so long, and 9.1 is still entirely variable

[vestal wren]

its in my opinion to good esp. on outlaw

[iron orchid]

but I kinda also hate it

[hollow river]

Ryfie was shredding PTR keys the other night

[limber lion]

It is way too good.

[tulip nacelle]

I don't think it will be fun tbh

[iron orchid]

for being strong on outlaw due to the Flurry thing

[limber lion]

The blade flurry on sbs should not be a thing

[hollow river]

But ww still had better overall so we’re not gonna be BROKEN x)

[amber mountain]

I'm worried that the Outlaw + Deathspike dps will get it nerfed

[vestal wren]

but i think there is a point to be made that... well it is quite bad in st so should it be allowed to be op in m+?

[amber mountain]

wait... WW had better overall? My alt is a WW/BM monk

[floral vale]

Yes please! Leave the flurry alone 🙏🙏

[amber mountain]

I'll be happy if I can run around with both

[vestal wren]

i can see it being nerfed due to its dominance in m+ on outlaw,
but i mean... its hard to predict without knowing how strong other classes are

[hollow river]

On the particular keys that ryfie did the other night, yea. Nothing is set in stone with either spec yet though obv

[amber mountain]

If they nerf it, I hope it's only in relation to outlaw

[iron orchid]

What would be the impact of just removing the flurry from SBS copies generated via the leggo ?

[limber lion]

I want to play sin in keys

[amber mountain]

me too

[iron orchid]

Well I already do

[odd heath]

Me too

[limber lion]

But I don't want to spend an eternity looking for a group in lfg. What to do

[hollow river]

I also saw qingxin fire mage do way more overall than jpc on PTR keys

[iron orchid]

Find a team

[hollow river]

And jpc was tryhardjng

[amber mountain]

Become an officer in your guild and run keys with guildies 🙂 Works for me

[vestal wren]

its a potential fix to the issue but would also mean its less "fun" to use on the spec

[limber lion]

Me too, but even the man himself Ryfie said that he's swapping to Outlaw if the dps gap is too large.

[alpine latch]

I shit on an Outlaw rogue last night in my 14 Spires

[amber mountain]

That's a sad state of affairs, which is why I hope it gets nerfed in outlaw

[limber lion]

:P I'm the highest r.io in my guild already. Doubt that would work.

[alpine latch]

Finished around 1.4k higher than him overall

[limber lion]

Good stuff.

[floral vale]

On denathrius, when the adds spawn in p1 do you want to just immediately hit crimson tempest? Considering they die within 1-2 gcds, do you even get to work fan of knives in there?

[amber mountain]

I'm not 🙂 I'm 4th, got a boomie, palli, and DH ahead of me 😕 (but they're in my group)

[hollow river]

Spires is pretty cleave heavy isn’t it

[limber lion]

Yes, you should save CP for an instant Ct

Then FOK right after

[hollow river]

Instead of just pure aoe

[limber lion]

Yes, the packs are pretty small. Most packs are like 3-4 mobs

Depends on how big boy your tank is

[hollow river]

So sim should be ahead of outlaw in spires correct

[vestal wren]

i am still not sure how well sin is in keys, same goes for subtlety

[iron orchid]

Let's just say that I'm happy we get to try a new type of gameplay as sin

[limber lion]

And how big/small he wants to go.

[limber lion]

For sure.

[iron orchid]

and do as I did in 9.0

[limber lion]

In 9.1 or currently?

It's very, very good currently.

[vestal wren]

in 9.1

[limber lion]

Yeh.

It's still very good, but gets outshined by Outlaw obviously.

[alpine latch]

I can't imagine it's getting any worse?

[vestal wren]

idk how well specs work with the seasonal affix

[limber lion]

Because of BF Spikes

The new Volcanic Plume affix is ridiculous

[vestal wren]

and how big pull sizes are

[limber lion]

I'm sure we will see some tuning in a bit

[vestal wren]

as this could shift the spec choice

[limber lion]

Most likely

[hollow river]

If anything plume gets nerfed

[limber lion]

Hoping to see some sub m+ plays

[hollow river]

Not deathspike

[iron orchid]

I've tested it and it feels good, but we clearly lack some damage if we are to compare to our OL friends

[limber lion]

Yeah, we can't really compare to OL

[vestal wren]

i don't think you will play sub with necrolord

[limber lion]

Def not.

[hollow river]

I’d love to play some sub in 9.1

[alpine latch]

We're technically better on Tyranical weeks though, aren't we?

[limber lion]

Obedience sub all the way

[limber lion]

Eh, not necessarily.

[alpine latch]

The issue right now is NO ONE pushes on Tyranical weeks

The new system will change that

[limber lion]

We lose quite a bit of ST damage because of our m+ talent choices

[vestal wren]

i am not sure about that

[alpine latch]

True. It's a large difference isn't it

[limber lion]

And we don't play Doomblade in m+ either most of the time

All the small things that make Sin a great spec in ST are gone

Well, not really honestly

But yeh.

It's that as giga as you'd think

[hollow river]

I still tend to do top ST dam in keys

[vestal wren]

you probably will play deathspike in m+

[limber lion]

In most dungeons yes

[vestal wren]

doom in raids

[limber lion]

ToP/PF are different, don't see Deathspike there.

[amber mountain]

I do great on Tyrannical weeks. I just set my TotT macro to target the highest DPS and away we go

[hollow river]

Lmao

[limber lion]

I just use it on the healer

[alpine latch]

Only if they give us another slot on it.

[limber lion]

[hollow river]

Toxic

[amber mountain]

lol

[hollow river]

[limber lion]

Yeah, it depends on domination sockets.

Dashing might be better if slots are not changing.

[alpine latch]

Domination sockets may blow it all up. Rogues haven't gotten any additional leggo slots, yet.

[limber lion]

And if we cannot add domination sockets to legendaries

[vestal wren]

domination socket gives 2 ranks in a potency iirc?

[amber mountain]

If the domination sockets are where they are, and our leggos don't get new slots, then Deathspike has to go on wrists

[limber lion]

No, you're thinking of the wrong thing.

Those are empowered conduits

Domination sockets are the ones in your gear

[vestal wren]

oh okay

[limber lion]

That you put the new raid gems in

[amber mountain]

They're like the "New Coke" of gems

[alpine latch]

They are basically new raid gems that have a set bonus and 3 damage gems, so you want all 5 slots that are available

[amber mountain]

They'll come in, we'll use em lots, then we'll get rid of them and go back to "Coke Classic"

[vestal wren]

oh ye i remember, not sure how strong the set is

[limber lion]

They are very busted and tailored for raids in particular

So you definitely need to get them

[vestal wren]

but possible that you want to craft new legendary items for it

[amber mountain]

Right

depending on sockets etc

[limber lion]

Cloak is one slot that doesn't have a domination socket, meaning that Dashing Scoundrel on cloak might be the play next patch.

[vestal wren]

ring and cloak is a good slot

[limber lion]

Both gloves and shoulders do have sockets, meaning that Doomblade is rip.

[compact pumice]

We getting a third slot for Doomblade tho, right?

[cerulean nest]

is anythinig Feint-able on sludge?

[limber lion]

A third slot you mean?

Who knows.

Not necessarily.

[compact pumice]

I meant that yeah

[limber lion]

They only added third slots to some legendaries.

[alpine latch]

maybe. Some classes did. They may balance it, they may not.

[amber mountain]

Shards of domination leather slots (currently): chest, helmet, shoulders, gloves, boots

[limber lion]

Yup.

[amber mountain]

So Zold on pants is ok, Deathspike on wrists is ok, Dashing on cloak is ok, Doomblade is f'd

f'd right in the doomblade

[limber lion]

Pretty much.

[amber mountain]

Or you're dropping a shard...

which is as poopy as it sounds

[limber lion]

Most likely don't want to do that.

But again, who knows.

Everything might change

[amber mountain]

yeah, so much is up in the air

[limber lion]

We might get more slots, we might get the chance to put dom sockets on legedanries

Will just have to wait and see.

[alpine latch]

It also depends on whether it's Unique-Equipped per gem or per rank of the gem

Right now it's per rank

[limber lion]

Yep

You can have each rank on

It's kinda dumb

lol

[alpine latch]

Even more so because you just have to carry around a ton to upgrade them

[tulip nacelle]

aren't cloak and wrist the worst possible legendary slots?

[alpine latch]

And eff that

[limber lion]

Chest, legs and helm are the best slots.

They give the most stats.

[compact pumice]

Damn, I don't look forward to this added system tbh.... It just seems kinda like they had no good ideas.

[limber lion]

I do enjoy it.

[stoic needle]

dashing goes on cloak or boots, not ring

[alpine latch]

It's not too bad, honestly.

It's a quick way to pick your own set bonus

[limber lion]

I'm excited to see what will happen

[alpine latch]

Since set bonuses won't be in the game until 9.2

[stoic needle]

the system would have been fine if they left the items in their original implementation with multiple slots per item

[amber mountain]

Thanks, i'll fix that

[limber lion]

I'm ready to dump Doomblade and try out a new legendary

[stoic needle]

the pillar impact

[limber lion]

Bingbong

[tulip nacelle]

so that's a yes

[dawn ivy]

unforch

[vestal wren]

yes

[limber lion]

Finality on chest

[dawn ivy]

the disparity looks awful but im sure numbers wise its not all that bad

[vestal wren]

i haven't looked into the domination sockets to much

[limber lion]

I want a chest legendary for sin.

[cerulean nest]

ty

[stoic needle]

the stomp is feintable too i think actually

[limber lion]

And so is the little circle that comes around you

[cerulean nest]

does the stomp do dmg if you make it outside?

so literally all the abilities are feintable? lol

[tulip nacelle]

no but the circle around you does it's damage at the same time

[stoic needle]

yeah that's what i meant, sorry. the seismic impact

[cerulean nest]

ah okay

[stoic needle]

if you're too close to someone feint can save you otherwise i wouldnt bother

[tulip nacelle]

roar isn't iirc, chain and dot aren't

[cerulean nest]

i mean not like I can dps for that moment

might as well

[stoic needle]

well that energy is better used on the boss

[floral vale]

Roar is cloakable though iirc?

[stoic needle]

no

[tulip nacelle]

No it's sonic damage

[stoic needle]

it's sonic damage

[tulip nacelle]

like shriek

[stoic needle]

aka fuck rogue damage

[tulip nacelle]

you can cloak 0 mechanics on sludge

[floral vale]

Sonic damage 😭

[echo geyser]

is there any indication of when zoldyck or doomblade will be used in new raid?

rn in castle its only used for sire right?

zoldyck that is

[alpine latch]

Isn't it used for SKS as well?

[floral vale]

Interesting. I remember digging through top kill logs on sludge and some people cloaked on pull I assumed to not get knocked

[limber lion]

And SLG.

[stoic needle]

zoldyck could see some use on sylvanas

[alpine latch]

Only Mythic SLG though

[stoic needle]

but its still too early to tell

[limber lion]

But no, we don't know much about the new raid yet.

[echo geyser]

yeah i know theres no tuning or w/e

[limber lion]

Zoldyck could be good on Sylvanas as it is most likely the typical end boss

[echo geyser]

but what makes zoldyck good?

[limber lion]

But who knows.

[echo geyser]

is it like high hp = good

[ionic kelp]

kt maybe phylactery phase maybe?

[limber lion]

No.

[echo geyser]

if execute value = good?

[limber lion]

Yes

Execute = good

There's some bosses that you value execute more than the others

[cerulean nest]

tends to the the tighest window for big deeps

[tulip nacelle]

don't believe that's a thing

[limber lion]

If there's a hard damage check towards the end, then you want high execute

[polar cape]

Plot twist blood fang is bis for some weird interraction/bug

[echo geyser]

yeah makes sense

[limber lion]

akin to Sire Denathrius, mythic Argus, mythic Nzoth

etc.

[echo geyser]

so what is this thing with doomblade getting "fucked" in 9.1?

[limber lion]

With the new domination sockets we might be changing legendaries

But nothing is certain yet.

Nothing is "fucked" yet.

Just wait and see.

[alpine latch]

If you don't want to stockpile Soul Ash, it's infinitely farmable in 9.1

[echo geyser]

theoretically it would be doomblade is a slot where dom socket cant be and then u lose a gem?

[alpine latch]

Feel free to burn through

[limber lion]

Yes.

[echo geyser]

so dom sockets only go on legos?

[cerulean nest]

there are so many currencies in 9.1, i barely know whats going on lol

[floral vale]

Really? 😮

[alpine latch]

Yeah, you only get like 60% for all clears after the first

But you can just infinitely farm SA, not Soul Cinders

[floral vale]

that makes me feel so much better

[limber lion]

You got it twisted

They go on specific slots

[alpine latch]

specific slots that only drop in raids

[warm parcel]

raid literally drops special items

[alpine latch]

Yup

[echo geyser]

aha

[floral vale]

I’ve made 7 legendaries already so broke

[alpine latch]

Really? I make about 60k a week

[limber lion]

Same

[floral vale]

Like soul ash broke

[alpine latch]

oh

SA broke is a different thing, lol

[floral vale]

😂

[echo geyser]

as of right now assa only rly uses doomblade and zoldyck for raid

[floral vale]

Doom blade is fine on Denny right?

[echo geyser]

is there any others to keep in mind u might need to craft ?

[alpine latch]

I was gonna say - I may 8-10k a week just off of a single characters table missions

[floral vale]

I don’t have zoldyck yet but need to do an assa Denny kill (nor prog)

[limber lion]

Yeah it's fine. Zoldyck is better for prog.

[limber lion]

Dashing might be the better choice for 9.1, but we're not sure yet.

MA is always a good choice for open world content, torghast, maw etc.

Deathspike might be huge in 9.1

[bitter canyon]

Do sin rogues ever go MA legendary?

Thought it was pretty bad on sin

[limber lion]

We don't use it in raids, but we do use it in M+ sometimes.

And like I said, it's the best legendary for stuff like Torghast, open world content and the Maw.

[echo geyser]

havent even heard of dashing

oh damn its the 2nd best for ST

[limber lion]

Haven't heard of it, because it's 2nd best and not best.

:p

[echo geyser]

does it have aoe value too?

[limber lion]

Some, but not as much as Zoldyck.

[raven vapor]

should i be maintaining garrote/rupture on all three during p1 of council or just two for regen?

[limber lion]

Just two.

Both bleeds on 2 targets.

[echo geyser]

i guess the lower the content the worse zoldyck is at least for m+

[raven vapor]

great cheers

[limber lion]

Well, kind of. Not necessarily.

We just start to value burst stuff more.

Zoldyck requires a lot of setup to get good value out of.

Like if a pack dies in 10s, you can barely get any dots out

[echo geyser]

yeah what would u p lay in like a +10 key?

[grim jay]

outlaw or sub

[echo geyser]

[tulip nacelle]

probably ma ns mfd ct, would be my guess

[grim jay]

pretty hard to recommend smth as everything will still feel meh

[echo geyser]

its true assa just seems shit for low keys

[tulip nacelle]

yeah I think the mfd ma build has the most burst for such low keys

[odd hazel]

@gusty mirage Blizzard has announced that Global Cross-Region Friends Lists are coming to Battle.net in a June 8th update.

[echo geyser]

soo anyways what situations would make dashing scoundrel worthwhile over the other legos+

?

[odd hazel]

the sockets next patch

[limber lion]

We've been through this already.

You get domination sockets on different slots in 9.1. Two of the slots are the slots used by Doomblade, meaning that you would lose a socket by using Doomblade.

The cloak does not have a socket, meaning that our 2nd best legendary is probably the better choice because you don't need to sacrifice any of the domination gems by equipping Doomblade.

[limber lion]

Like Mefer said, the MA legendary, NS/MFD/CT

Assa is perfectly fine for lower keys if you play that build.

[echo geyser]

ah i see never read the dashing parts

ty

[limber lion]

So I can finally see what Whispyr and Oxi are doing, but not actually play with them

[echo geyser]

Envenom effect to also increase the Critical Strike chance of your Poisons by 15%, and whenever they deal Critical damage you generate 1 Energy. this applies to targets u dont envenom as well?

[limber lion]

What a tease.

[echo geyser]

just self buff?

[limber lion]

[limber lion]

Yes, it's a buff that you gain.

Meaning that it affects all poisons around you.

[echo geyser]

cool

[tulip nacelle]

[limber lion]

So I can finally see what all of the lovely na homeboys are doing*

[odd hazel]

i can go the distance cev

we will play together one day with whispyr and oxi and you

[tulip nacelle]

nah I'm not na, didn't feel not included dw

[limber lion]

Yeah, I know you're from Czheck (ree I still can't type it)

[tulip nacelle]

Czech

[limber lion]

Czech?

Ey

[amber mountain]

Just imagine, some day Blizz will have to make global WoW battle groups...

[sinful citrus]

can sims for the decanter trinket be trusted or should you not assume full value?

i remember people saying it misses sometimes like lightless force does

[limber lion]

Decanter does damage in a cone in front of your character

So yeah, you probably won't be seeing max value out of it in most cases.

[odd hazel]

i cant wait to replace it with my IQD

[sinful citrus]

ive got my choice between that at 226 and gloves at 226 for when i am running zoldyck i already have a phial at 226 and wasnt sure if i should run double passive trinkets lol

worst part of tuesday is the decisions haha

[limber lion]

If you don't have 226 gloves yet, I'd take those tbh

[sinful citrus]

yeah i just went for the gloves seems safer and i already have the phial at 226 and the totem at 220

[limber lion]

Yep, that's good.

[alpine latch]

I just want a phial. IDGAF what level it is

My alliance rogue can't get Pox to save his life, my horde rogue has 2 Pox and no Phial

[limber lion]

Just grind for it.

How many PF's have you done?

[alpine latch]

20ish?

[limber lion]

Not bad.

[stoic needle]

Why are you typing here instead of suffering in plaguefall :P

[alpine latch]

I'm at work

I'm not going too hard since I think progression for my guid is done

I'd rather just grind it out in 9.1 if we're not progressing

I'm planning on pushing KSM as quick as possible to cover any holes in my gear

[limber lion]

Yeah, would suck getting a massive item now only for it to be useless in 2 weeks.

[alpine latch]

yup

I'm anticipating 9.1 info at Game Fest this week

We'll see, ultimately

[wary ice]

i still remember the physical release of getting my phial drop

followed by 3 wispers of "hey do u need :3"

[limber lion]

Who knows.

[alpine latch]

Yeah, I'm not holding my breath... lol

[limber lion]

I used my 220 phial for a long time as well.

Swapped to a 226 chain after it dropped

But it served me well.

[alpine latch]

Yeah, as a non-CE raider, 220 Phial is one of my best options

[limber lion]

Definitely is.

[alpine latch]

I'm going to try to establish some quality logs in 9.1 and then start applying

[limber lion]

That's a good plan.

Do as much as you can in terms of logs and whatnot and then apply.

[alpine latch]

I was in a CE guild back in Legion, but had to quit before the guild got there.

I miss playing at a high level. I've been in more casual "get aotc and the free bosses of mythic" type guilds the last few years

[limber lion]

I mean, just apply to a guild and get back to it

Just don't aim too high right away.

[alpine latch]

Yeah, my guild right now will probably get 4-5

They are recruiting to try to build depth now

[limber lion]

High chance a guild that clears 4-5 bosses in mythic this late to a tier will not get CE on the next.

[alpine latch]

I know

[limber lion]

So if that's what you're aiming to do, then you might have to consider hopping guilds.

[alpine latch]

I'll probably just buy the CE mount and use 9.1 to establish my character since it's still relatively new.

I still need to find a m+ team horde side and start pushing.

It's shocking how shitty the 10-15 runs are on Horde side

[limber lion]

As long as you buy it from us, then that's a good plan

[limber lion]

Don't worry, they're shitty even at 20+

[alpine latch]

You're EU aren't you?

[limber lion]

Yes.

Oh yeh, rip

[alpine latch]

Yeah, won't happen

I'm Area 52 (US)

[limber lion]

Yep.

With the boys

[alpine latch]

Tons of top guilds here

10/10M right now is like 6m and comes with two loot funnels

[limber lion]

Yep.

[alpine latch]

Figure 10/10 + the mount will probably cost around 15

[limber lion]

Yeah, not sure if communities will sell 10/10 + mount

Maybe later to the patch

But anyways, sin stuff.

[scenic root]

Did totem get changed in the sims? I remember back a few months ago having it and it was simming really poorly, not it's like top 5 trinket

[limber lion]

Yes, it got changed months ago.

We did not know that the effect was hasted. The new hasted version was added to the sims and it now sims appropriately.

It was undersimming previously.

[scenic root]

Ahh, yeah I think I got fed up with it's performance before I knew any better and sold it, and have since transfered. R.I.P.

[limber lion]

Unlucky.

[tulip nacelle]

(it oversims for outlaw now, just fyi)

[limber lion]

But there's plenty of other good trinkets out there.

[scenic root]

Have Phial and got trolled in vault with 226 ooze and we are progging council and haven't done reclear for skulkers or memory. Maybe I'll get lucky vault

[limber lion]

Don't hold your breath.

[scenic root]

Ooze isn't horrible but very mediocre

[limber lion]

Yep.

Trinkets are not the end of the world.

You can just farm something like IQD if you want a good 220 trinket.

[scenic root]

Been farming heroic sire, no luck yet.

[alpine latch]

sigh

5 necks in my GV today

Cool

[stoic needle]

Could still be in the item restore

[scenic root]

Not after server transfer

[gusty mirage]

I can finally play with @limber lion ?!

[amber mountain]

Nope! But you can see that Cev's online and playing!

[gusty mirage]

[floral vale]

Is there a way to have details continue logging through vanish when hitting a target dummy?

I’d like to basically do reps of a certain time frame on the dummy, record it and pull out my details log / combat log if possible and review

So I can work on rotation etc endlessly

And quantify my progress

[drowsy coral]

Right click the top bar of detail (next to the icone)

And select dynamic overall dps or something

Just search for "dynamic [...]"

[floral vale]

Nice

[undone eagle]

Guys regarding sire mythic p3 where orbs gonna spawn at the same time as massacre + push , does cloak soak all dmg from impales hit aswell?

[tulip nacelle]

if by impale you mean massacre then no

cloak doesn't work on p3 massacre

[limber lion]

Cloak only works on blood price, the red ground stuff and fatal finesse casts/soaks.

[floral vale]

Cloak doesn’t work on p2 massacre? 😮

[tulip nacelle]

on p2 it does

not on p3

[floral vale]

Ok cool

[thorny pond]

Blindside + DS is haste > crit?

in general

[dusky vault]

Better late than never I suppose lol

[stoic needle]

crit > haste regardless of talents

[spice spire]

Huge

[spice spire]

Isn’t haste > crit for non-venthyr ? I thought we did this a bit ago - for ST purposes only btw

[compact pumice]

Crit > haste is more of a venthyr thing tbh. I'd bet on haste in general and would likely trust a sim over any stat prio. @thorny pond

[stoic needle]

right now as necro they're basically dead even

[frail fossil]

as necro these stats are very close to each other and one can be ahead of the other so better to sim

[stoic needle]

for me

[frail fossil]

as always

[compact pumice]

For me crit is last, since my gear was mostly geared for venthyr

[spice spire]

Only sith deal in absolutes, osh.

[compact pumice]

Mastery even winning over crit

[spice spire]

But that’s more of a gear specific thing. Crit still top 1-2 for most

[compact pumice]

yeah for sure

[spice spire]

But yeah, just sim

[compact pumice]

Crit is great, usually crit haste on everything is a good bet

[unkempt ginkgo]

Just starting on sire prog. Any tips and tricks I should know about

[fair yarrow]

hi there, on sludge do you recommand to put 2 on use trink ?

[balmy condor]

Yes

[soft shale]

do remember to use one on pull otherwise you're losing a lot of value

[fair yarrow]

yeah sure as well to save shiv for pillar

[gusty adder]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[tribal spear]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

In general simming yourself is the recommended way to determine stat weights.
The following is a general recommendation, but you will always get more accurate results through simulation.
Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[unkempt ginkgo]

EP/vig is better for sire right

With DB

[soft shale]

most of sire is cleave so you do more damage as EP/vig/ CT

[unkempt ginkgo]

makes sense

with the p3 nerf, probably dont need to use zolds and BS for prog

is the feeling im getting

[soft shale]

it depends on guilds some are already killing him almost after the overlap

although for prog i would still play zoldyck

[shy dust]

EP seems shit

For prog

[limber lion]

You should probably still play Zoldyck. If you have people dying left and right, people doing bad dps because they fpcus on mechanics etc.

[shy dust]

Given I doubt you’d need P2 damage

Blindside is still more damage in the hardest phase of the fight

[limber lion]

Yeh, BS/DS is a great choice.

[shy dust]

If you wanna do more damage sure go ahead

[silent tinsel]

Even when I sim 3 targets at 3~ minutes Deeper wins

[shy dust]

More damage isn’t always better though

[silent tinsel]

mmm, Trading PB is worth it imo because the gain in aoe for 2% st means the rest of the raid can put more damage into sire

[limber lion]

Yes, CT is a good choice.

[unkempt ginkgo]

so BS/DS/CT?

with zold

[limber lion]

Are you Necro?

[unkempt ginkgo]

Venthyr

[limber lion]

Okay sec

Yeh, BS/DS/CT is great.

[unkempt ginkgo]

Should i use vendetta twice in p1?

[limber lion]

No

You shouldn't have any need for it honestly.

Just Vendetta once p1, once p2 and twice p2

Or twice in p2 if you're assigned on first add/no add

[unkempt ginkgo]

ive been assigned to duskhollow

[limber lion]

Yeh, then use Vend once in P1 and once in P2

[unkempt ginkgo]

same with flag? or just on cd

[limber lion]

Using Vend in P2 (if you're lacking damage) twice is better for timers for P3, but that means less overall damage in P3 and you probably don't want to do that.

[limber lion]

Flag on CD.

It syncs to some extent because you're holding Vendetta

[unkempt ginkgo]

thanks for the advice

[tough trail]

I need m+ advice

what leggy to play? Im playing ma just for some lowkeys atm and im running MA but I feel like its hard to not waste the critbuff while putting up dots

other opener?

[arctic walrus]

do u have zold

[limber lion]

You should play NS/MFD/CT with the MA legendary.

Otherwise just stick to the usual Zoldyck build with EP/Subt/Vig/CT

With the MA build you would open from stealth with MFD - CT - FoK - Rup - FoK - Rup - Gar

Nightstalker snapshots CT, so it's pretty decent burst but it loses to Zoldyck on higher keys because of a worse damage profile and being so inconvenient.

[tough trail]

great answer, will try it out!

Im mainly playing outlaw, but while doing some weeklys atm I just felt like trying it out

thanks!

[limber lion]

No worries mate!

Good luck!

[dull cloak]

If I craft Zoldyk with Crit and Mastery am I gonna regret it

[soft shale]

stats better for m+ but not the greatest for ST

[limber lion]

No.

Stats are stats. It'll be like 10 dps difference at most

[harsh hollow]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[forest vigil]

necro or venthyr for Sire?

[limber lion]

Necro

[forest vigil]

😮 fr?

[frail fossil]

yes necro is cracked on sire

[limber lion]

Necro is dummy good

[dawn ivy]

new build everyone panic

[limber lion]

[dawn ivy]

hopefully sylv daggers get numbys

doomblade on cloak

fml

DEATHSPIKE IS NERFED

panic

its one other target instead of two

[odd heath]

wooohoooo

[balmy condor]

doomblade back on the menu

[paper cairn]

[dawn ivy]

on cloak sadge

[odd heath]

just need to do it again, but well, we can use it xD

[odd hazel]

sarcasm or?

[dawn ivy]

serious

[odd hazel]

im just gonna assume yes though

[dawn ivy]

it goes on one extra target

[odd hazel]

i mean---- thats not that bad of a nerf.

[dawn ivy]

oh yeah dont panic

one target is still nuts, we gotta see if they still allow the dot to be aplied to additional target

if it doesnt apply the dot onto the second target thatd be kinda sad honestly

[odd hazel]

it would just be used on outlaw at thatp oint for the extra blade flurry

[balmy condor]

literally the best outcome

[limber lion]

Fuck that.

I was hoping Doomblade is history

[hollow river]

doomblade on back 9.1

[limber lion]

Now we have to create the same legendary on a different slot

[warm parcel]

id like a ring

[limber lion]

Exciting.

[hollow river]

woooot

[odd hazel]

well

thing is

its still possible dashing is better

or will it not matter

[limber lion]

Why

[odd hazel]

just being hopeful honestly ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[limber lion]

Dashing was better because we had no slots for DB

Now we have a slot

[balmy condor]

the literal only thing dashing had

was the slot

[limber lion]

Exactly

[odd hazel]

was just hoping we used something else some how lmao

[loud niche]

I keep holding out for sin venthyr stonks

[limber lion]

Unlucky. I was hoping for some spicy Dashing gameplay

[odd hazel]

i mean, sin venth is still good

[limber lion]

Oh well.

[hollow river]

deathspike nerfed...

sadface

[odd hazel]

its still really good

[warm parcel]

bUt dAsHiNg sCaLeS wItH cRiT aNd hAsTe

[limber lion]

It's a giga nerf.

[compact pumice]

I mean it would be shit if we couldn't use our highest simming ST legendary due to just.... slots

[loud light]

the goal of the patch is to add a bunch of new stuff that nobody uses because the old stuff is still better

confusing stuff

[limber lion]

I wouldn't be surprised if Zoldyck was better than this iteration of Deathspike

[loud niche]

ofc venthyr is good, but it doesnt scale well with target numbers vs necro FeelsBadMan

[limber lion]

The current best st legendary that is

Why should we be stuck on the same legendary from patch to patch?

[timber oak]

Do u out Zuldyck on pants ?

[limber lion]

Yes

[balmy condor]

yep

[hollow river]

tbh i don't even believe deathspike was broken

[odd hazel]

it wasnt broken

for us

[hollow river]

pretty stale of them to nerf

[balmy condor]

it was kinda insane on outlaw

[odd hazel]

^

[balmy condor]

the nerf was for them

[hollow river]

so nerf the flurrying aspect

[balmy condor]

not us

[hollow river]

it still flurries?

[compact pumice]

This is better solved by buffing unused legendaries a bit to be competitive in their niches

[limber lion]

gibe second legendary blozord

[loud niche]

this

[odd hazel]

lets all just go dashing to spite them

[stoic needle]

So they just destroyed deathspike

[hollow river]

lets all go kyrian to spite them

[odd hazel]

never

in my life will i ever be kyrian

[compact pumice]

I mean, it's not like they can't do it. They wont, but they could if they wanted to. At this point the only reason we don't expect something like legendaries to be fairly balanced is just due to Blizzard's track record and not due to common sense. What's the reason of having a choice if it's not even really a choice?

[hollow river]

l2spite

[compact pumice]

[limber lion]

Too many big words at 3am, brain no work.

[thorny pond]

SBS still blade flurries tho

[odd hazel]

so staying zold it is

[hollow river]

no one wants to play OL

[thorny pond]

I don't

I was hoping that would be the change

oh well.

[hollow river]

same

[limber lion]

Yes

[hollow river]

welp there goes my 9.1 hype

[thorny pond]

Sin got buffed cuz Doomblade got back piece

[tulip nacelle]

sbs will always flurry

[thorny pond]

Deathspike*

[stoic needle]

Blizzard giving me so many reasons to not play 9.1

[compact pumice]

You say that but after swapping to Necro, going OL on SLG and in M+ was a biiig improvement on the spec

[stoic needle]

At this point tbc looks more fun

[thorny pond]

https://tenor.com/view/no-fun-no-fun-allowed-gif-5591313

[strange python]

is assa going necro next patch?

[limber lion]

Who knows.

[thorny pond]

this patch*

[balmy condor]

we already are

[strange python]

i saw that the necro leggo seems RLY good

[copper sundial]

ehh i'd still max both covenants pre patch if you're iffy

could always switch back ect

[limber lion]

The one that got nerfed 10mins ago?

[stoic needle]

It's dead now

[limber lion]

[strange python]

??

it did?

[balmy condor]

bro why do you literally just say things

[strange python]

where can i check the nerfs?

[thorny pond]

It's as dead as the queen mate

[fleet anchor]

I doubt it's "dead" but less straightforward now

[stoic needle]

Whyspir you know it's probably gonna be worse than zoldyck

[warm parcel]

no we quite frankly do not

[balmy condor]

do you know that?

[limber lion]

Everything's dead, the spec is dead, the entire class is dead.

[hollow river]

i am dead

[limber lion]

It's over.

[hollow river]

its all over

[copper sundial]

rerolling feral druid bye

[hollow river]

jump on the doomship

[fleet anchor]

I dunno, between the options of waiting a couple hours for a new PTR nightly to sim vs. random speculation, you know I'm gonna pick speculation every time. 🤣

[strange python]

rofl @copper sundial

[balmy condor]

it's dead koji don't even bother implementing it

[fleet anchor]

It's all data, I don't need to implement sheeeet

[hollow river]

wowhead

[fleet anchor]

😄

[strange python]

ye, ive seen it.... @hollow river

[granite thistle]

TLDR DB on cloak now? It's been 15 whole minutes and I need my theorycrafters to make a decision NOW

[limber lion]

Cloak DB probably best legendary and slot

[stoic needle]

Just delete your rogues

[limber lion]

But who knows.

[strange python]

is the nerf to the leggo THAT bad?

[stoic needle]

Class is cancelled

[paper cairn]

yes

[hollow river]

Already did.

[low girder]

isn't cloak a shard slot?

[limber lion]

We could use a release date in a but.

[hollow river]

WW here i come!!!

[limber lion]

No

[low girder]

hmm

[warm parcel]

shrad slots vary based on armour class

[limber lion]

Cloak, wrists, belt, rings are free

[copper sundial]

wonder if we get to "Reforge" or something instead of dumping 5k soul ash into a different slot

[hollow river]

i h ope so

sincerely

[warm parcel]

I mean ash is quite literally meaningless in 91

[limber lion]

Yeh

[warm parcel]

So I dont really see it as an issue

[limber lion]

Currently the big problem are the gems

That get destroyed when you upgrade ranks

[warm parcel]

And its quite unblizzlike for them to come out with something like that

[limber lion]

Like that's some dumb shit

[warm parcel]

The shards are another thing

Those are a system and a half of nothing but failure

[limber lion]

Yeh

[compact pumice]

They said they wont do it probably, since they making Ash easy to get yeah.

[dawn ivy]

you can quote me on this, they are going to fix the shards of domination to not be destroyed

[limber lion]

You'd hope so.

[dawn ivy]

they used the basic gem system to build the shards of domination system, they will fix that kinda shit

[compact pumice]

You need to be more specific, they might fix it just before next expansion if you don't say like "on 9.1 release"

[random fossil]

what are we crying about tonight

[loud light]

will they though

we've seen conduit energy go live

[dawn ivy]

no we didnt

????

[low girder]

?

[dawn ivy]

we literally saw the exact same thing happen to conduits lmfaoooo

[low girder]

conduit energy still exists

now introducing: domination energy

you're welcome

[loud light]

hell yes

[dim ledge]

Why do some people run elaborate planning on single target?

I thought it was better for cleave, but some top logs use it on hungering

[warm parcel]

cause one doesnt bother to swap

[balmy condor]

that too

it's better on sludge cause you can pool more and have EP consistency

but like

hungering?

[low girder]

for cev the difference is like 4 dps or something

[warm parcel]

for me personally ep vig is .2 off of highest ST setup

[low girder]

yay necro

[balmy condor]

just lazy

[warm parcel]

so I see no reason to go st setup

[balmy condor]

high rolling the BS procs

for fun and profit

[warm parcel]

I dont have bind for ambush

okay

[balmy condor]

I mena

fair

[fathom swift]

I pretty much only run bs/ds on denath now

[dawn ivy]

dude let me into the servers

https://tenor.com/view/eric-andre-let-me-wahh-wild-go-gif-13490041

[shut garnet]

is this... good?

[compact pumice]

So, wonder how many stacks it will be then

[dawn ivy]

i figured 4 stacks

[compact pumice]

Well, that text there says it will improve as the target becomes more injured.

So better closer to execute? That's good, unless it's not a big difference.

[balmy condor]

looks like the damage got cut in half, and the proc rate was put in

so

idk

[odd hazel]

how far behind is zold on ST?

[balmy condor]

#assassination message

[fleet anchor]

I mean, does it matter if it's good or not? It's the BiS Dagger anyway because of ilevel 😛

[balmy condor]

this far

[fleet anchor]

So it's extra-BiS if the proc is good

[odd hazel]

Curious how far it might push zold if its a good amount of damage

but then again it also benefits doom

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[dawn ivy]

it wouldnt effect either

???

[odd hazel]

im like

half awake so im spewing non sense

i see it now lmao

[dawn ivy]

i am hyped to see execute daggers/execute gems/blindside/zoldyck just for memes

[fleet anchor]

But I'll be honest

[compact pumice]

Oh for sure, but yeah it's interesting if Heroic is still BIS compared to M+ daggers

[fleet anchor]

I've read the tooltip like 10 times

And still don't understand how it works without testing it

lol

[rustic whale]

Deathspike lego gutted 1 extra target

[fleet anchor]

It's like the worst tooltip ever

[warm parcel]

I read it as about 100 extra dmg per finisher in exe

Which sounds bad

[low girder]

yeah i think the stacks are only on the % chance

so up to 8% chance per CP

[fleet anchor]

Yeah I mean that's how I would guess but who knows

I would assume it's 2% additional chance every 25% HP just guessing

But honestly could be anything

Also no idea how it works with two daggers

[warm parcel]

servers still down

[compact pumice]

Isn't it Damage Per Combo Point though?

[dawn ivy]

nah i think the stacks affect the damage

and the cp affect the %chance

[oak sky]

Do we keep zoldyck on legs next patch or are we using a new slot

[west cove]

there is no way without insane luck to obtain the dagger anyways

[paper cairn]

just get em

[shut garnet]

i would definitely hope the effect stacks

itd be SO cringe

[fleet anchor]

How much money does someone want to wager with me as to if it works with animacharged CP costs or not

[shut garnet]

if it only worked once

[warm parcel]

it will not koji

[compact pumice]

Will prob be vaults for people

[warm parcel]

dont worry

[low girder]

bonus rolls are also back

unless they retconned

[fleet anchor]

Oh ye of little faith

Spoilers: it did not

[west cove]

how many pieces drops for rog from sylvanas

[warm parcel]

wym did not

[fleet anchor]

It's the meme template 😦

[warm parcel]

oh

sorry

[shut garnet]

@low girder where u seeing bonus rolls

[low girder]

forever ago they talked about it

[fleet anchor]

Also I am enjoying the fact that we finally get a mega cool final boss unique item

oh btw, no more weapon tokens so we'll never see it 😄

[paper cairn]

implying I saw weapon tokens to begin with

[dawn ivy]

im pretty sure someone mentioned bonus rolls got datamined by accident

[fleet anchor]

Wonder if they will let it drop from GV

[dawn ivy]

theyre not coming back

the strings were just still in the game?

[low girder]

possible

dagger specs and hunters get fucked once again

[west cove]

at least there are couple of huntars in raid comp

[shut garnet]

its probably safe to assume anything and everything that can drop in the raid gearwise will be obtainable from ur weekly vault

otherwise itd be

really dumb

[west cove]

rog will be 1

[warm parcel]

I mean we have no precedent for items like this and vault

[compact pumice]

Some FOTM might reroll rogue tbh

[warm parcel]

So who knows

[shut garnet]

assa fotm for a tier?

[odd hazel]

why do people call it assa

or assass

[spice spire]

Iirc EU calls it assa and NA calls it sin

[odd hazel]

but...why assa

[teal bloom]

Assa it is

[stoic needle]

eu people are weird

what else is new

[steel geyser]

Makes more sense tho

[odd hazel]

it does not

[stoic needle]

no it doesnt

[warm parcel]

assa is a nice word

[stoic needle]

sin, law, sub

[haughty verge]

Some of us calla it "muti"

[steel geyser]

Why would you take the middle of the word

[odd hazel]

middle?

you mean the end

[stoic needle]

not assa, outl, bltey

[spice spire]

Assassination is the spec name 😛

[steel geyser]

Nobody says law

[spice spire]

So it is technically middle

[stoic needle]

people do say law

[limber swallow]

combat

[low girder]

i've never heard anyone call it muti

only mut

[spice spire]

I’ve heard it called muti and mut

[odd hazel]

Sin just makes more sense and sounds better

[spice spire]

They both equally don’t make sense 😛

[low girder]

they make perfect sense if you're a boomer like me

[echo geyser]

do u guys just stealth to bosses in torghast or have to get powers ?

[steel geyser]

Sin is cool but it's definitely not the more logical

[low girder]

mut was the final point in assassination

[odd hazel]

at my ilvl, i just stealth

[shut garnet]

u can probably stealth thru and just get the powers at the end of each floor

if ur above 220 ilvl

[spice spire]

You can do it pretty easily above 213 imo

[amber mountain]

<.<

.>

I'm 220, and i just blast through having fun with the powers

[spice spire]

You can also do that!

[drowsy coral]

Imagine having fun in torghast

[amber mountain]

But i'm one of those monsters who goes there with no real reason 😄

[spice spire]

I do guild carries so I just kinda vibe

[echo geyser]

u reckon u do a full run in 10min?

[stoic needle]

[wraith heart]

Any ideas on what covenant will be better I see people trying necro over venth

[odd hazel]

Necro is currently the better option to go

but venth is better ST

any time an add appears, AT ALL

necro wins

[wintry spade]

so basically shriek and sludge venth, all other bosses necro

[odd hazel]

i mean yeah, but i wouldnt worry about that. just go necro tbh

[wintry spade]

yea i'm necro

i'm in the minority who find throwing spears fun

[odd hazel]

thats not a minority

a LOT of peopel are necro

[wintry spade]

but do they enjoy throwing spears is the question

🤔

[odd hazel]

yes

[stoic needle]

yes

[wintry spade]

in that case i yield

[odd hazel]

ive never seen the bone boys in here

not destroy them selves over SBS

[muted adder]

is vanish part of the rotation if u arent running ma?

[stoic needle]

yes

the only people i've known who don't like sbs haven't played with it

[muted adder]

what do u use vanish for?

[echo geyser]

if u dont run MA ur probably running subterfuge right

so that means u have 3 garrotes u could press that do 80% more dmg ?

[odd hazel]

in what instance?

M+? yes

[echo geyser]

hes asking what u use vanish for if u dont use MA

[odd hazel]

on CD basically

[muted adder]

ohh i didn't realize there was a talent called MA, i was referring to the legendary

[frail fossil]

in ST u dont press garrote 3 times during subterfuge window

[echo geyser]

oh ur refering to lego that is very unusual

for assa

[odd hazel]

there is a build that uses it

and its really good

[echo geyser]

that build uses subterfuge tho right?

[odd hazel]

no

NIght stalker

[echo geyser]

[frail fossil]

night stalker yeah

[echo geyser]

is it a st build?

[odd hazel]

no

[echo geyser]

[tulip nacelle]

ma ns mfd ct

[frail fossil]

nah just m+ stuff

does it sim better than the zoldyck build with subt ?

[echo geyser]

ah thats the low m+ build for burst

right

[tulip nacelle]

we talked about it today already, or well yesterday at this point

yeah

it's probably fine for higher keys as well

just def better than zold on low keys

[dawn ivy]

so 4 stacks under 25% dealing 1k+ dam on a 10% chance

[drifting cloud]

rip secondaries

[dawn ivy]

thats mythic

[west cove]

i hope it comes without secondaries xd

[odd hazel]

that

seems very underwhelming tbh

[nocturne tide]

seems to be intentional. other weapons with effects in the raid, with the exception of the hunter legendary, have had their secondary stats removed as well

[balmy condor]

yeah the fact that it had stats was an oversight

we'll have to see how good the effect is

[nocturne tide]

just gotta hope its budgeted correctly yeah

[west cove]

thank god hopefully its worse than m14 vault drop

[balmy condor]

it definitely won't be

[nocturne tide]

theres a weapon or two with seemingly cosmetic on use effects in there that kept secondaries

[balmy condor]

it's a question of how much better it will be

not if it's bis

it's going to be bis

[west cove]

yeah

[nocturne tide]

and hunters are keeping theirs either because of its legendary nature or because it introduces an opportunity cost in requiring a gcd

[short token]

guys, super noob question, with bone spike on single target, do we just leave a stack on the target until it falls off? do we reapply early? can we stack multiple spikes?

[nocturne tide]

it does on application damage and generates points so you can fill with it as a low energy builder and/or ranged usable spell as i understand it

[balmy condor]

you apply the dot first thing in your opener, and then you use during gemstone to dump charges

[short token]

Ok gemstone is something foreign to me

gotta look up what that is

[balmy condor]

the end of the current heirmir tree

in the middle

[short token]

ohhhhh ok

i just got that renown earlier today

do we just use it on an open CD during gemstone?

[balmy condor]

it replaces what would've been a mutilate

[short token]

omg that's why i noticed sometimes it gives like 4 cp

ok that's big

thank you

[balmy condor]

np

[echo geyser]

is there any footage like youtube or stream with that build in action

curious to see how it does

[balmy condor]

all my vods are too old

damage wise it's like a little worse

higher reliance on stealth

so it's just downsides

[echo geyser]

also wtf is the opener on st with subterfuge ? i remember it being something like G R G ?

[balmy condor]

only 1 garrote

[echo geyser]

but back then we had shrouded suff

[balmy condor]

it would be gar - snd - mut

[echo geyser]

o lol

[echo geyser]

just worse than zoldycks u mean?

[balmy condor]

than normal zold/subt