assassination

[dense cedar]

but there is a loss to switch to a 0 renown cov

[balmy condor]

There’s no reason to swap later instead of swapping now

[vestal wren]

Atm is the best time to bring all 4 covenants to 40

[trim dirge]

can you complete the first swap quest one week and then like a month later will you only have to complete the next one whenver you want?

[misty zenith]

Ok so that means that there is data now about PTR where necrolord just trumps Venthyr in multiple target situations and gets really close ST for Sanctum? Or is that feelcrafty from people testing PTR at the moment

[balmy condor]

Yes

[trim dirge]

nice

[balmy condor]

Necro already trumps venthyr on anything more than single target

[dense cedar]

@misty zenith it doesn't matter

[balmy condor]

It has

For months

[dense cedar]

it does

but that info doesn't matter

[misty zenith]

Which was my original question btw 😄 before this whole thing span off

[balmy condor]

There’s pins

Showing that

[vestal wren]

you can sim it, necro is behind on st but necrolord feels better to play (esp. on a low apm spec) and is better in multi target

how relevant multi target will be in the raid, i am not sure

[misty zenith]

Well yea that is what i am trying to understand from the PTR raid test, from the fights i've seen its pretty mixed

[vestal wren]

but a convincing argument for necrolord is that its rly strong on outlaw an hence you will cover outlaw(for m+/cleave) and assassination(for st) with it

[frigid sleet]

On single target do we CT outside of shiv window no matter the legendary?

[misty zenith]

Oh Outlaw 😦

[balmy condor]

Yes

[vestal wren]

a fight having adds does not mean you will spend a long time on them

or that your damage is needed on the adds

[misty zenith]

Fights i saw had an add phase and after a ST phase or something, but there are a couple that are really multi-target indeed

But Necrolord vs Venthyr doesn't change a lot in rotation if i look at 9.0 logs, you just open with SBS

Instead of Muti

[balmy condor]

You still recast sbs

[undone lodge]

guys, i need a tips for cleaving in m+, do i have to garrote all adds, and soon after i FoK with CT?

[misty zenith]

Wait am i correct in thinking that even now, from fights going from Xymox and up Necrolord already seems to edge forward

[undone lodge]

my multi targetting sucks big time, it's a burden for my mates 😦

[balmy condor]

Yes

[balmy condor]

Should garrote everything, as long as you’re not overwriting subterfuge garrotes

Maintaining ct, and rupturing everything that isn’t going to die soon

[misty zenith]

I need a WA telling me to not overwrite the buffed garrote

I keep failing at that sometimes

[dense cedar]

Whispyr so pro

[balmy condor]

I had to do it with custom code

Kinda tricky to do without it

No way to track the targets properly

[misty zenith]

I need to re-do the UI tbh, i am overlapping a Luxthos Pack with a pack from Preachgaming

Which sometimes does my head in

Anyway we've stopped raiding now so, ideal time to set it all up for 9.1

[undone lodge]

ahhh thanks

[undone lodge]

i'm using mystler's WA

[misty zenith]

Aha, i will test that one out

Using the Luxthos pack atm

[undone lodge]

that's what he replied when to know if garrote is empowered

but honestly, i never seen the timer goes green, maybe just once or twice

just like what he maentioned in his replies

[stark ravine]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[quaint carbon]

is there a way to cancel SBS on dummies ? it goes on forever

[sacred isle]

Should get removed if you get more that 100 yards from them

But last I checked cp generation will still be bugged when you start combat with them again

[quaint carbon]

okay

[strange moss]

hey i play outlaw and i just started to play sin.. what do you do with excess combo points?

just dump into envenom?

[tulip nacelle]

you might need to relog

[balmy condor]

yup

same as dispatch on outlaw

[limber lion]

We just finish at max-1 instead of max

[teal bloom]

When do you use crimson tempest in the opener vs huntsman altimor? before or after vendetta

[balmy condor]

after

[strange moss]

im currently on heroic sludgefist do i hold vendetta for pillar hit or use on opener? we only just have the dps after all pillars are dead and the boss is about to hit wall

[limber lion]

Are you lusting the fourth pillar?

[balmy condor]

that means you're doing 4 pillars

so should pull/2/4

[limber lion]

If so, then use on pull, 2nd and 4th

[balmy condor]

what does lust have to do with it

[arctic walrus]

Good answer

[balmy condor]

[limber lion]

Nothing, just asking

[strange moss]

thanks guys

[limber lion]

But for real though, if you lust first pillar for example, you can still get Vendetta for 1st pillar, 3rd pillar and just before he hits the wall

[arctic walrus]

Jesus fuckjng Christ though man your raid sucks

[limber lion]

So 3 Vendettas regardless

But I would advise against it.

[tulip nacelle]

hitting wall on hc sounds... not pleasant

[limber lion]

This is with first pillar lust

3 Vendettas, pillars 1 and 3

and then before the wall

This is what I do on my boost runs.

[strange moss]

haha we're all undergeared and we only just got to sludgefist yesturday and had 2 dps dead

[frigid kestrel]

Horde or Ally?

[limber lion]

1st pillar lust is the most common heroic tactic and if you're hitting the wall regardless, then using cooldowns on 1-3 is honestly fine.

I would never advise it on mythic though, even if you did lust some random pillar.

[languid cipher]

Will necro be the go to covenant for assa in raiding in 9.1?

[balmy condor]

most likely

[arctic walrus]

Why though

[balmy condor]

why necro?

[south hollow]

Afaik most of the fights are cleave not pure ST

And SBS hels with cleaving

[tulip nacelle]

there you go Whispyr

[south hollow]

I don't think there ever was a full single target fights raid

[odd hazel]

there was one raid i cant remember that was like

70% ST

[arctic walrus]

If you want to cleave so bad you play outlaw

You’re taking an assa rogue for the st prio so you hone that in with venth rather than giving your limp padding dick to sylv

[balmy condor]

but it's like 0.8% - 1.2% off in single target

and if you're gonna play outlaw, you're going necro anyway

[undone lodge]

pardon me, but what is SBS stands for?

[balmy condor]

bone spike

the necro ability

[undone lodge]

ahhh okay, thanks whisp

[limber lion]

Pretty sure Necro pulls ahead in prio damage as well when you introduce more targets.

[undone lodge]

i just got Macabre (trinket) a couple of weeks ago, i find it hard to play with it as it spreads the dancers, any tips how to play with it?

[small crypt]

delete it probably

[balmy condor]

the easiest way to play the trinket

[small crypt]

worst trinket ever existed

[balmy condor]

is to get a different trinket

[small crypt]

if you want to bruteforce it though, you can manipulate the place they spawn by changing your camera angle

unless they fixed that

but in reality any other trinket is better

[warm parcel]

Or play a tauren

Big enough to soak the dancers just standing

[whole bluff]

Tauren rogue incoming

[polar matrix]

213 Sudden fractures or 200 Well placed steel for mythic sludgefist?

[undone lodge]

hahahaha ok ok i get it, i have another, and it is skulker's wings

[balmy condor]

wps

[sinful cradle]

Id pick wps

[misty zenith]

Just as a quick fire question, which races are you guys using for an Assa rogue?

Or Rogue general

[frosty cedar]

Zug Zug orc

[warm parcel]

belf cause others have shit looking mog

[misty zenith]

Isnt nightfallen a bit like Belf?

But more volume

[warm parcel]

same model effectively yes

[fallen arch]

Void Elf cos Alliance>Horde

[warm parcel]

I would rock any of human, nelf, nb if I were alliance

alas

[fallen arch]

Wait, we use wps over sudden fractures?

[balmy condor]

For sludge yeah

[odd hazel]

mechagnome superior race

[misty zenith]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[frigid kestrel]

Mechagnome because I live by the sims

[winter moss]

blood elf bc aesthetics

[shrewd night]

why not void elf, afaik its better because the 1% magic damage applies to poison damage ala envenom

[fallen arch]

I couldn’t look at myself as a mechagnone either, which might even be more important

[limber lion]

If I was alliance, I would 100% play Mechagnome.

But for Horde, Belf is the only race.

[shrewd night]

Honestly, I played mechagnome on my second rogue, not being able to mog is such a kick in the teeth.

Difference between mecha and ve is thankfully not that big

[ruby bronze]

!covenants

!9.1

[limber lion]

It's like 30dps, which would be a massive gap for me.

[odd hazel]

the god him self spoke

[limber lion]

What did you try to achieve with that command?

You can just ask and we'll help you out

[odd hazel]

you can mog though

[shrewd night]

Is this really the hill you want to die on?

[ruby bronze]

lol just trying to see if ppl are staying vent or going necro for 9.1 raid so far, or if its still too early^^

[odd hazel]

absolutely

[limber lion]

Necrolord is the more versatile choice overall and beats Venthyr in any encounter where you have adds.

Venthyr only really pumps in pure single target.

But yeah, it's still a bit too early to see. We don't have the specific tuning and balancing numbers yet.

[odd hazel]

inb4 they nerf venth.

[limber lion]

They already did, by removing the Theotar cheese. :p

[spice spire]

[ruby bronze]

I see. Swapped my rogue for a hunter main in castle beginning, just finished sire progress so looking at potential new mains in 9.1, so my rogue is still NF

[odd hazel]

@spice spire

[limber lion]

Necrolord is honestly the best covenant all around. I would highly recommend swapping to it, if you can stand the awful sanctum and cringe mog.

The covenant ability is just too good for most things.

[odd hazel]

if it was a diff color it might be a decent mog

[limber lion]

It's not really worth being any other covenant atm tbh, unless you're cheesing for parses with Venth/Theotar.

[ruby bronze]

I see! might as well do it then! thanks for the input

[limber lion]

No worries.

[warm parcel]

idno aint too fan of velf

nelf/human always been it

[odd hazel]

you can literally make it look like a blood elf

[warm parcel]

Id not be belf if I could

Its the best horde has to offer

[odd hazel]

you can

[limber lion]

I used to be a lore fanboy back in the day

Nowadays I'm just a dps whore

But even as a dps whore, I still value belf tmogs more than the atrocity that is Orc.

[warm parcel]

lre

[odd hazel]

belf isnt even the best horde race

:^)

[limber lion]

Orc rogue is cringe

[odd hazel]

listen

cev

dont do this to us

[limber lion]

A big dude with massive hands playing around with tiny daggers

skip

[warm parcel]

also mog of any other colour than red or green?

nop

[odd hazel]

i wish

orc just got the red skin of the new orcs

seems like there was a few wasted spots for allied races

[lost horizon]

Give me snake people god damn it

[warm parcel]

cant rock an orc male in femboy mog

but a melf?

hell yue

[odd hazel]

A male elf?

even worse.

[limber lion]

Damn right.

[odd hazel]

i do wish i was horde though, as much as i like mechagnomes i miss being a troll sometimes

[warm parcel]

hell no

[limber lion]

Trolls are the worst

[warm parcel]

troll is the worst

[limber lion]

And it's not even close

[warm parcel]

literally unmoggable

[odd hazel]

listen, you're blood elfs

dont say anything

lmao

[limber lion]

You can't tmog shoes on them

Like you literally cannot

[odd hazel]

i dont wear any, any way

:^) invis feet mog ftw

[warm parcel]

idno chief

[odd hazel]

i mean

atleast be a female belf

the male models for any race are awful

[warm parcel]

male in the week fem in the weekend

😏

[vestal fox]

What’s the best covenant if I want to be assassin everywhere besides mythic+? Currently venthyr atm

[limber lion]

Probably Necrolord still.

[vestal fox]

Appreciate gonna switch now, does necro do well for pvp aswell?

[lost horizon]

If pvp matters to you, isn't venth still big money?

[limber lion]

You need to ask in #pvp for that.

[vestal fox]

I’d probably value mythic+ over pvp, but would still like to get into pvp since I never really have before

[limber lion]

Necrolord is honestly probably fine in pvp, but it's so much far ahead in everything else.

[vestal fox]

Yeh I think I’ll just take the hit in pvp to be able to play assassin/outlaw in pve

[lost horizon]

I'm sure necro is still fine for pvp

End of the day, cov choice will not be holding you back

[vestal fox]

Gotcha thanks guys 🙂

[spice spire]

I hate this tremendously.
Cev

[shrewd night]

Mechagnome weak when

[limber lion]

[carmine dawn]

cev can you log review for me

whyspyr never got back to me after work

[limber lion]

I'm in the middle of a boost run, but I can do it after that.

So in like an hour or so

[thorny pond]

Blue.bae

[frigid kestrel]

I Mechagnome has a second cheat death too, i absolutely hat the mog but shit is to good in my eyes to not be one

[odd hazel]

tbh i prob wont ever switch from the

"semi" decent mog i found

[limber lion]

I did use the same mog for years

Only recently changed because I got a new mount that I wanted to get tmog for

[undone lodge]

ahhh ok ok i'd try that

[small crypt]

better don't try that 😄 you said you got skulker's wing

just use that until you get a better trinket

[undone lodge]

use skulker

?

[small crypt]

yes

[limber lion]

You should never really use the macabre trinket.

It's very bad.

[undone lodge]

ahhh ok ok

thx for the tips

[limber lion]

[undone lodge]

kiss kiss

[misty zenith]

Anyone here playing with Elvui, i'd like to only have it show Garrote, Rupture, CT

Not sinful rev etc

On the enemy NPC Nameplates

[warm parcel]

blue mog on green orc

[tulip nacelle]

here's Cev's plater profile

but you need plater not elvui nameplates

[misty zenith]

Wait wow thats golden

Just need to disable elvui nameplates then

[tulip nacelle]

maybe, not sure if plater overrides elvui

[limber lion]

Yeah, you have to disable Elvui for plater to work.

They cause conflict with one another.

[misty zenith]

Elvui just told me that there was a conflict

and i selected Plater 😄

[limber lion]

Yep :p

[misty zenith]

i just tried to import yours

crashed my game 😄

[thorny pond]

perfection

[gusty mirage]

[warm parcel]

disgusting

[stoic needle]

It takes a second because plater profiles are large

[thorny pond]

you're disgusting. i bet you eat jello with vegetables in it

https://tenor.com/view/jello-jiggle-dessert-jiggling-shaking-gif-9467832

[warm parcel]

I dont even eat jello

[limber lion]

Jello's not really a thing in Finland

[thorny pond]

I'll send some

[gusty mirage]

People voluntarily eat jello

[warm parcel]

Ill pass

Im fine chief

[thorny pond]

Old people

[limber swallow]

with alcohol in it?

[spice spire]

https://tenor.com/view/i-dont-know-about-that-one-chief-minato-jutsu-naruto-shippuden-power-gif-17919644

[thorny pond]

https://tenor.com/view/cry-sad-why-anime-himouto-gif-5298257

[undone lodge]

anyone get vaxed?

[tulip nacelle]

not really an #assassination topic

[limber lion]

gamers only.

[undone lodge]

LOL

[frail fossil]

venthyr 52 dps upgrade ooof https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ziX4nXcui4K8GMJxJPaWy

[limber lion]

Only

[thorny pond]

7k club, 52 DPS is .7% increase

[limber lion]

Where's IQD and crit stack

:(

[frail fossil]

i have iqd i guess

[spice spire]

[cobalt pelican]

doomblade shoulder -500dps

[limber lion]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jAFkXqzGfYsvdYt2R2kTB6

You beat me on Necro dps but not Venth

[whole bluff]

No cloak enchant too 😉

[frail fossil]

let me sim with iqd

[frail fossil]

that's not a dps upgrade is it ?

[whole bluff]

speed gives you +5% to parses

[limber lion]

Care for Sire ring shenanigans

[frail fossil]

tried to get a better venth sim, iqd still behind tho https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/bAshKHYFYraVpzm92E3pkM

[slow marsh]

my 226 SGT sims higher than IQD feelsbad

[frail fossil]

i guess i have too much haste still

[limber lion]

SGT?

[slow marsh]

Shadowgrasp

[limber lion]

Almost 70 more haste than crit

[frail fossil]

weird cuz i simmed some other crit items instead of haste and then dont come at the top

[limber lion]

Because they sim less.

They sim more only if they manage to push crit as your highest stat

[frail fossil]

[limber lion]

If it's less than haste, it's likely that a mastery/crit item still loses to an item that's haste/vers

For example if your crit ends up being 690 and haste 691

[frail fossil]

i need to get prenium i cant sim everything i want

[tulip nacelle]

not having premium

[frail fossil]

do u think i can just ask mom credit card for raidbot

[tulip nacelle]

sure lemme find the 3 numbers on the back

[stoic needle]

not having raidbots premium

[tulip nacelle]

oh your mom...

well

[frail fossil]

trying to find who asked

[limber lion]

oh no 3€, what ever will i do

[stoic needle]

you should be trying to find that credit card instead

[limber lion]

Rather buy 2 chocolate croissants for breakfast

[frail fossil]

[frail fossil]

[limber lion]

@frail fossil

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6xkPWpNRCSB2ijqHj7DjzP

That's forcing a crit gem on your belt though

[frail fossil]

aight so it's like a 73 dps upgrade still

not much

for how good sbs is on a lot of fight

[limber lion]

Yeh for sure

I don't see any good reason for playing Venthyr currently, unless you're looking to cheese parses with Theotar.

[frail fossil]

or play sub

[warm parcel]

overall mby not

but ven still offers slightly diff profile

[analog pilot]

as someone new to assassination

is it worth crafting a legendary now

or waiting for 9.1 sims

for which is best

[limber lion]

Definitely, but Venthyr loses to Necrolord even in priority damage when there's multiple targets.

Loses overall and prio

Sad times.

[limber lion]

I mean, you can create legendaries now if you want to play the spec. You'll get a lot of Soul Ash come 9.1

I personally have 11k soul ash saved up for next patch, but it's not necessary whatsoever.

[analog pilot]

11k JEEZ haha

makes sense

[limber lion]

I would recommend just crafting 1-2 legendaries now

But not maxing them

Just leave them at 190

You don't get too much from maxing them

[analog pilot]

so probably get doomblade and zoldyck

[limber lion]

Yep.

[manic pebble]

is this the bis trinket for raiding?

[limber lion]

No it is not.

It's a decent trinket, but by no means bis.

[warm parcel]

I dont think spikes gona do much when you down in the phyl

[limber lion]

There are like 5+ trinkets that are better.

[manic pebble]

ah

[warm parcel]

Like there are just cases where ven still has a place

[limber lion]

Yeh agree, Venth is definitely better on KT

You don't even get any resets from KT's adds

which is dumb

Yeah for sure, Venth is by no means a dead covenant. It's still great and has its place.

[warm parcel]

ye but from my pov I aint doing shit with spike on kt

and that and sylv are the only two I care of

[limber lion]

Yeh, Venth > Necro on KT

Necro is probably better for Sylvanas though

[stoic needle]

you sure you don't get resets on the adds

[carmine dawn]

can someone check out a log for me?

[warm parcel]

so necro isnt something I see Id want

[stoic needle]

i could've sworn i was

[warm parcel]

even if you were to get resets

[limber lion]

Necro offers more execute damage as well.

[warm parcel]

you dont get any in the phyl

and phyl is the reason I would be there as a rog

[limber lion]

Which could be valuable for Sylvanas

[stoic needle]

sure

[limber lion]

No, you don't get any resets whatsoever

[warm parcel]

slyv is to be seen obviously

dno how mythic is going to play out

[limber lion]

Not from the big ones, the small ones or the stalagmites

Nothing

[willow eagle]

More execute because of the trait?

Souldbind*

[limber lion]

That and if you play Zoldyck, SBS is actually affected by it

[stoic needle]

is there a way to see spike refunds in logs i want to go look at mine

[carmine dawn]

bump

[limber lion]

I mean you can just look at the amount of casts.

[limber lion]

Send em to me, I've got time now.

Or just post em here and several of us can tune in

@carmine dawn Which one are you? Sneaky or Vojax

[carmine dawn]

not the good one lol

[stoic needle]

i'm looking at the logs and it's hard to tell either way

[real solar]

LOL

[carmine dawn]

[limber lion]

@carmine dawn

1. Is there a reason why you're Kyrian? It is by far the worst covenant. I'd highly recommend swapping to Necrolord or Venthyr. And why are you using Kleia and not Pelagos?
2. Is there a reason why you use Blindside and Vigor? Usually EP/Vig and BS/DS walk hand in hand.

[carmine dawn]

cause im an outlaw one trick who hasnt swapped yet cause it didnt matter for me

[limber lion]

3. Your opener is very flawed. You should look up a guide and fix your opener. Fixing your opener is a very easy thing to do.

[limber lion]

Necrolord is the best covenant for Outlaw as well lol.

[carmine dawn]

yeah thats why i said

havent swapped yet cause it didnt matter for me

[limber lion]

Well if you want to maximize your dps and do more, then you should

[carmine dawn]

yeah im sitting at the necrolord dude now tbh

cause now it matters for me.

[limber lion]

There's very little reason to do log reviews and attempt to get a better parse and perform better if you're handicapping yourself by choice.

But yeah good.

Start with that.

So:

• Look at !guide and fix your opener and rotation. It is very flawed and needs quite a bit of work. I would recommend reading the guides and then just going to a training dummy and practicing the rotation on it for a while.

• Sim your character to see which talents/conduits/soulbinds are the best for you.

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[carmine dawn]

thats more of a character review

but thanks

[real solar]

Lmao

[limber lion]

Listen

[lone finch]

is there a point where deeper stratagem becomes better or do I just play vigor or deeper stratagem depending on preference?

[limber lion]

You play your class wrong

[real solar]

He’s essentially saying it’s a waste of time to log review if everything of yours is wrong atm

[limber lion]

Openers and rotation is not "character review"

You're literally playing the class wrong

you do the wrong rotation

You press your buttons at the wrong times

I can't say much

Except go look at a guide

There is no point in me doing a log review when the fundamentals of the class are so flawed.

[real solar]

Give Cev an actual log to review

[limber lion]

DS often sims better in single target, especially for Venthyr. You should sim it honestly. As a Necrolord it's usually really close and you're safe playing either.

A lot of the time it's just preference.

[lone finch]

@limber lion ah thank you!

[limber lion]

There is some placebo in play as well. Some people actually despise playing with Deeper Stratagem, so they just play worse whenever they talent into it.

Playing something that's comfortable for you will go a long way.

Especially if they are so close in actual output.

[carmine dawn]

thanks

[limber lion]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[limber lion]

^ Those are good resources for studying your rotation.

[carmine dawn]

do i refresh dots immediately in pandemic or towards 1-2 seconds left

[limber lion]

It doesn't matter

As long as you refresh them during the pandemic, before the bleed drops.

[scenic root]

I'm reviewing my logs and I seem to have a really high miss%, like 25% on melee. Is there something I can do to fix that?

[carmine dawn]

is there anything wrong with using more envenoms and going lower on energy, as long as you're ready for vendetta?

[limber lion]

Can you elaborate? Not exactly sure what you mean.

[warm parcel]

Youre a dualwielder so no

[carmine dawn]

im used to energy starving myself as outlaw

[limber lion]

You never let your bleeds drop, if that's what you're asking.

[carmine dawn]

does it matter on sin

[limber lion]

Yeah, we don't do that.

We pool energy

[carmine dawn]

yeah but you dont need to really pool until vendetta is up right

[limber lion]

The pins have quite a lot of information

And I would recommend you read em

[limber lion]

You do.

#assassination message

[carmine dawn]

literally says not a big increase

[limber lion]

But if you're just starting out as Sin rogue, maybe you shouldn't focus too much on pooling.

It is not.

But you still do it.

It's like asking

[carmine dawn]

thank you. thats the information i was looking for thats not in the pins

[limber lion]

"Should I press Envenom at 5 CP every time or not"

No you should not

You can if you want

but it's not optimal

[carmine dawn]

but its a slow loss

10-4

[limber lion]

Huh

[carmine dawn]

i constantly find myself with 15 seconds left on shiv before vendetta is up. FAQs say to hold for only 10 extra seconds. what do i do

10-4 means understood

[stoic needle]

the apl holds it for 12 seconds technically

i'd just hold it for vendetta

[limber lion]

You press it.

FaQ says 10s

You have 15s left

So you press it

[umbral smelt]

i use conRO addon pretty solid for rotation, been a big help for me since switch from sub

[carmine dawn]

would shiv come back up at the end of vendetta

[limber lion]

I would highly advise against using rotational addons

You learn stuff quickly by just practicing.

[limber lion]

If Vendetta is on 13+ second cooldown

Then yes

[carmine dawn]

wait i might me remembering wrong. if vendetta is on CD coming up soon. i frequently saw shiv comes up at 15s left

thats normal - shiv will be back up at the end of vendetta?

[limber lion]

wat

[limber lion]

"soon"

What is soon

You just used an example where you have 15s of cd on Vendetta

If you press Shiv, then when Vendetta is ready you have 10s of cooldown on Shiv

Meaning that if you slam Vendetta

You will have Shiv for the last 9s

[dawn ivy]

just do your own math tro make sure you get a shiv inside a vendetta

thats literally all the apl is doing

just get a shiv inside vendetta

[limber lion]

Like

It's not difficult.

[dawn ivy]

experienced players will be able to get a max value shiv at any point during the vendetta whether its the start or the beginning, if youre not that experienced save your shiv for the beginning of vendetta

[strange python]

if shiv is on cd and you aren't using DS, do you just always use finishers at 4 CP because it takes 2 mutilates?

[dawn ivy]

max-1 for all situations, check the pins

[strange python]

yeah I saw that but was wondering if that is because of mutilate giving 2 CP's

[limber lion]

There's quite a lot of information in the pins.

Why would it change?

[dawn ivy]

its not about mutilate giving you 2, its about using a third mutilate wasting cp

[strange python]

yeah

[amber mountain]

or having another ability generate extra CP that get wasted

[dawn ivy]

you just dont want to waste CP on a mutile that COULD give you 4 cp

[strange python]

but would you then use bonespike as a necro to get a 5 CP mutilate?

[limber lion]

No.

[dawn ivy]

nah

[limber lion]

You dump SBS during Gemstone windows.

[strange python]

because it was stated somewhere that on ST you only use it when you almost cap

[limber lion]

You never use it to fill cp.

The only abilities that you use to fill cp are garrote/shiv

[warm parcel]

and sbs generates more than 1 99% of the casts

like

[limber lion]

It's not rocket science honestly

[warm parcel]

its about cp efficiency on finisher vs wasted cp

[limber lion]

You always just keep mutilating until you hit max-1

Then you finish

If you're at max-2 and Shiv is coming off cd, then you slam that instead

Or garrote is in pandemic in a bit

[tulip nacelle]

outlaw uses sbs to cap cp

[gloomy knoll]

should probably explain to people the reasoning behind holding shiv for vendetta

otherwise they might use shiv at 12-14 seconds and then just hold vendetta

till shiv is back up

lol

[limber lion]

Oh, like we already did just now?

@gloomy knoll

[dawn ivy]

damn thats crazy

[strange python]

I just started playing my rogue again like 3 days ago and all these little things can get confusing sometimes when you just read them

[limber lion]

Practice makes perfect.

[strange python]

and I may or may not have been doing full CP finishers pretty much all of the time until I saw someone bring it up

[limber lion]

Outlaw brain.

[gloomy knoll]

just like in general

this the first time i seen it mentioned

tbh

[limber lion]

wat

[dawn ivy]

i mean its mentioned you use cds on cd and that the only time you hold anything is shiv <12 seconds

none of the rules change in anything besides holding shiv if you were forced to hold shiv in the lkast 2 minutes

and the "mention" im referring to is all the FAQ/guides

[limber lion]

Let's add another thing for "we hold Shiv for 12s because otherwise we will not get full 9s value out of it during the Vendetta window. Using it when Vendetta has 13s+ cooldown remaining will ensure that you get Shiv up for the last 9s of Vendetta. As long as you get the full 9s value out of Shiv inside the Vendetta window."

But I think "Press everything on cd, hold Shiv for max 12s if Vendetta is coming up" is easier.

The guides do mention it, I'm pretty sure.

[gloomy knoll]

yea but like i said then you'll just run to the conclusion

oh i'm holding vendetta for those 9 seconds

[limber lion]

?

[gloomy knoll]

half the time

[limber lion]

There is never

a mention of holding Vendetta

Why would you assume people would hold Vendetta

[strange python]

Uhm this is probably a stupid question but I don't understand why you use finishers at 5CP with DS, wouldn't 3 mutilates give 6 CP ? And isn't getting to 5CP pretty awkward unless you use shiv or garrote

[limber lion]

We only say "Hold Shiv"

Nothing else

[gloomy knoll]

why would they assume the opposite

[limber lion]

??????????????

"Hold Shiv" - okay I will hold Vendetta

How does that make sense

Not sure if trolling

Has to be

[gloomy knoll]

becasue people assume shit

[dawn ivy]

@strange python first mutilate gives you 2, second mutilate gives you 3

[gloomy knoll]

if they think oh i gotta shiv with my vendetta

[dawn ivy]

you now have 5 CP

[limber lion]

But

[gloomy knoll]

might not be thinking oh i'm getting shiv on the backend

[limber lion]

We never say that

We never say that you need to use Shiv with Vendetta

[strange python]

how does the second give 3?

[limber lion]

We say

"Everything on cd, hold Shiv for 12s if Vendetta is coming up"

14s remaining, so I shiv

14s later Vendetta is up, I press it

[dawn ivy]

@strange python seal fate

[limber lion]

11s later Shiv is ready, so I press it.

[dawn ivy]

anytime your melee abilities crit on a target you get an extra CP, mutilate has two hit components that can each crit, giving a potential 4 cp in total

[lean coral]

3 weeks ina row

i cant

i hate this game

[limber lion]

[gloomy knoll]

lol

[strange python]

but isn't this assuming that your second muta will crit

[gloomy knoll]

is ok i got 8 weeks of denny and only 233 pieces i got are from trades

[limber lion]

You don't use 3 mutilates. You use as many mutilates as necessary to get to 5-6cp

[gloomy knoll]

vault is the devil

[limber lion]

Sometimes you use 2, sometimes you use just 1

Sometimes you use 3.

[dawn ivy]

again youre looking at our reasoning as "mutilate gives you 2" when we just dont want to waste CP from a mutilate that could be giving us 4 CP

[lean coral]

only have 1 233 piece

and its that

and i got it from our first kil

ive seen it 3 vaults in a row

[strange python]

so basically if you cast 2 muta's and they both don't crit, you do a third one to get 6 but if the second one does 1 crit you will have 5CP and just use it at 5

[limber lion]

Yes.

Or you get to 4 CP with 2 mutilates, then you have Shiv coming up or Garrote is dropping

so you press those instead

And now you're at 5-6

Then you finish

[umbral smelt]

should i go doomblade shoulder or hand? what’s most common lol

[strange python]

I see , thanks

[limber lion]

Gloves.

[strange python]

really smoothbraining this spec for some reason

[umbral smelt]

ok ty

[limber lion]

It's not really rocketscience.

Don't overthink it.

[lean coral]

gloves if you can get mythic slg shoulders

[strange python]

I think it's mostly that I main UDK so not really used to a "rotation"

[dawn ivy]

you get used to the rule set, becomes pretty natural

[gloomy knoll]

any1 got a good gemstones wa

[limber lion]

https://wago.io/MarrowedGemstone

[gloomy knoll]

ty

[umbral smelt]

ok thx bro

[spice spire]

I use that as well

Deece

[gloomy knoll]

i made one but it doesn't change colors

and i remember seeing better ones on streams lol

[limber lion]

This one does, very pog.

[gusty mirage]

I added a sound to this one when it procs

I’m a fan

[gloomy knoll]

oh that's a good idea

should be necro in a few dungeons

动态网自由门 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 六四天安門事件 necro 天安門大屠殺 out of control 反右派鬥爭 my mind.. the wheels in it were turning 大躍進政策 insane Execute 文化大革命 DEATHspike 人權 awakening 民運自由 theorycraft 獨立 almost went mad 多黨制 blessed weapon.. diminishing returns 台灣 臺灣 Infinite 中華民國 combine all four 西藏 土伯特 唐古特 5.0 haste weight 達賴喇嘛 secret rogue build.. 1 rogue 4 executes 4000000 dps 法輪功 sin meta dominate 10 years 新疆維吾爾自治區 ~heavy inhale 諾貝爾和平獎 Rogue... scaling .... infinite 劉暁波 rogue best dealer 民主 言論 洪志 rogue epic 劉曉波动态网

[warm parcel]

Im a big fan of auras like this

You dont even always need visual

[spice spire]

Gonna yoink that, thanks

[gloomy knoll]

a few streamers i seen do it like that

[spice spire]

[gloomy knoll]

half they shit is just

sounds and not even visual lol

just hear a cat meowing like wtf

[strange python]

I finished the venthyr campaign just so I could upgrade my covenant gear for higher ilvl and now I gotta do the necro campaign again

[gloomy knoll]

i got every cov at 40

except kyrian

fuck them fascist blue bitches

[strange python]

kyrian is my least favourite aswell

venthyr probably favourite for rogue looks-wise but yeah

[polar cape]

I liked kyian on outlul and in corridor

[strange python]

also the 9.1 venthyr mount is so good

[gloomy knoll]

#neverkyrian

[gusty mirage]

I find that I often miss the visuals too so I’ve resorted to sound queues: “Oh cash register? Gemstones procced, dump charges”

[limber lion]

Auditory stuff is really helpful

[amber mountain]

As someone who's colourblind and can miss some of the visuals in this visually cluttered game, sound design is everything! Also, GTFO is teh best addon ever

[cerulean nest]

i have a 220 dreadfire, 226 skulkers and 226 phial. should i drop phial for sludge prog and just do two on-use?

[dawn ivy]

if you can reliably not kill your partner with skulkers i would do double on use

[limber lion]

Yes, just don't get greedy with Skulker's.

[dawn ivy]

the gain of double on use isnt worth wiping on sludge prog lmao

[stoic needle]

You shouldn't kill your partner with skulker's after the chain nerf

[cerulean nest]

for sure. i've used a skulkers literally since the start of the expansion and have died enough to be very smart about it lol

[stoic needle]

You have to be literally trying to break chains

[cerulean nest]

unbinding shadowstep though lmao

[gleaming stratus]

Memory / dreadfire is ideal

[strange python]

Torghast is a tragedy as assa 😦

[umbral smelt]

haste/crit is stat priority right? about to craft my leggo just double checking

[spice spire]

Sin has the easiest time in Torghast of all specs wdym

[gleaming stratus]

yes

[umbral smelt]

ty

[spice spire]

Sim yourself, but more than likely ye

[strange python]

Fresh assa 160 ilvl couldn’t get a layer 8 done with a really good defensive build. Walked thru that shit on my ww at that ilvl

[frigid kestrel]

I personally think Sub has the easiest time in Torg out of the three

[spice spire]

For torghast, if you’re having issues surviving, run MP > leeching

[frigid kestrel]

But Sin is still easy

[spice spire]

Helps a bit

[strange python]

You still get absolutely blasted

[gleaming stratus]

sub is really easy in Torghast didn't struggle once when people complained it being impossible before nerfs

[frigid kestrel]

Yup

[umbral smelt]

i haven’t done torg with sin, but with a solid tank for pulls, pop symbols and spam ss and black powder my dps is ridiculous

on sub^

[spice spire]

Also monk has corrosive dosage, which makes torghast super easy mode

At 180 I was having issues even with CDs clearing boss before nerfs

[strange python]

That’s good but I prefer the sck build

[spice spire]

Ye that’s also ez mode

Rogue isn’t as busted in torgh as monk

[strange python]

No monk is so free haha. It reminds me of doing visions as dh

[gleaming stratus]

don't they have some bs with heal = damage

[umbral smelt]

idk rogue i think is still the best in torg lol i solo’d up to 5-6 bc i just stealth passed all the mobs lol

[gleaming stratus]

or some nonsense

[strange python]

Yeah but the real reason monk is insane is since every build you can mow everything down very easily. It’s not dependent on one build

[spice spire]

Corrosive dosage. Ye

[spice spire]

Rogue definitely not the best for torgh, but it’s fine lol

[tulip nacelle]

it's insane for torghast now, you can skip everything

at the start, not that great for sure

[gleaming stratus]

we get in and out in 4-7 minutes

[umbral smelt]

^ lmao exactly

[strange python]

Max gear it’s definitely very good

[gleaming stratus]

depending on the week

[umbral smelt]

upper reaches is the best took like 3-4 mins

[spice spire]

Non soulfire week it’s stupid ez

[umbral smelt]

each floor boss was like 20 ft from the door

[gleaming stratus]

just take your time on soulfire weeks 250 then just skip every floor whe nyou can afford the orb for 65% reduced fire damage it's still pretty fast

[umbral smelt]

also dk if it’s a glitch on the transmog, but discovered pre cool thing if someone wants cool daggers, transmogged to electrowing with power torrent illusion; it just steady changes color from like purple blue and orange

[spice spire]

That’s actually sick

[limber swallow]

so.. you just gave your daggers RGB?

[alpine latch]

There are a few weapon/enchant combos that do that

One goes from red to black, I believe. Pretty sure I have it on a caster dagger

It comes from the weapon animation colors + enchant colors, where they bounce from one to another

[umbral smelt]

oh awesome that’s cool, i just found this the other day by accident thought it was pre cool

[alpine latch]

Yeah, I usually xmog in "themes"

My warlock is a "basic white girl". She wears yoga pants, a sweater, etc.

The dagger I have on her changes colors, I just don't remember what dagger it was off the top of my head

Rocks the backpack xmog from visions

[umbral smelt]

that’s awesome lmao, i’m still a newb with the mogs just started trying to farm them, someone i was farming first satyrs with got it on first try 🥲

i’m on like week 5 now lol

[alpine latch]

Mind if I DM you some info?

[umbral smelt]

yeah sure !

[scarlet spade]

Any reason you would run maim?

[spice spire]

You literally have no other options lol

[scarlet spade]

OK thats what i thought

[stoic needle]

Maim/mangle is the best 3rd potency for non venthyr

[limber lion]

and non necro

[alpine latch]

In theory, it's good if you're fully maxxed on Maim and have like 180s of everything else.

But overall, it's not good

[carmine dawn]

alright work slowed down.
so if im refreshing gar/rup in pandemic windows.
keeping shiv on cooldown (pairing with vendetta obv)
keeping Vendetta on cooldown
spamming envenom while pooling energy outside of vendetta windows.

is that a wrong rotation

[limber lion]

I mean, that's not exactly "rotation" and more of a list of things to keep in mind

But yes, those are all correct.

You also stop pooling for energy during Shiv as well.

[carmine dawn]

so you're saying youd like some sort of way to see what im casting, and in what order, to see what im doing wrong?

[limber lion]

I would recommend looking up some logs and comparing your cast timelines to theirs

Like your opener was completely flawed for example.

[dawn ivy]

ive never actually cared to look at soulbind sims, how far behind is lethal poisons from Maim/mangle? ive always used lethal poisons ahead of Maim/Mangle because it just has better use cases

[limber lion]

Are you aware how you use your abilities during the opener?

[limber lion]

They're honestly very close. What are you using MM or LP for?

[carmine dawn]

every opener says to get SnD up asap with first finisher. then put up garrote and rupture. then burst

[limber lion]

Like under 10 dps close.

[limber lion]

Sure, but in what order do you press the buttons?

[dawn ivy]

on like ptr

[limber lion]

Oh right

[dawn ivy]

my rogue on ptr is centhyr and i hate dauntless duelist so id go triple potency out of spite

[hollow river]

Teach me your ways oh wise one

[limber lion]

Yeah, I would honestly probably just default to LP as well

[carmine dawn]

do you put SnD up with less than a full finish?

[limber lion]

Yes.

[carmine dawn]

sounds insane, but i guess if ur spamming envenom its chill

since that change it makes sense

[limber lion]

!guide

[dawn ivy]

1 cp is enough if youre spicy enough

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[limber lion]

Straight from the WoWhead guide.

[carmine dawn]

mhm.

[frail fossil]

they need to update it for necrolord

[carmine dawn]

so you're saying my shit opener is the sole problem wrong with me?

along with the toon shit

duh

[limber lion]

Definitely, the line next to SnD is also incorrect.

[limber lion]

No.

But it is the most obvious problem.

[floral vale]

With necrolord it’s SBS first?

[limber lion]

Yes.

SBS - SnD - Muti

[alpine latch]

Don't you SBS while stealthed as a Necro?

[floral vale]

Why do you finish -1 cp as assa?

[limber lion]

Yes.

[alpine latch]

Seems weird that it's not added first

lol

[carmine dawn]

so how else do i know what im doing wrong, besides my opener and my gear. clearly im "keeping everything in mind"

[limber lion]

Because you want to minimize wasting combo points.

[limber lion]

You practice

Once you have fixed your gear, talents, soulbinds, covenant, opener and general rotation

then you can ask for a log review

And we'll help you fine tune stuff.

[carmine dawn]

no i said how do i know im doing something wrong

practicing the wrong stuff is bad

[floral vale]

It’s interesting how this works out. I kind of want to dig into to the math to see why it’s worth wasting some points as outlaw. Or is it just because mutilate generates too many points?

[limber lion]

Mutilate always generates at least 2 combo points

Sinister strike only generates 1+

[floral vale]

Got it

[limber lion]

Meaning that it's safe to use sinister strike and not waste cp

But you will always lose combo points if you use mutilate at max-1

[hollow river]

I think as outlaw you still wanna minimize wasted CP

[limber lion]

Yes you do

[floral vale]

And why SnD at any combo point? The outlaw rule is use SnD like any other finisher no?

[hollow river]

But you finish at max

[limber lion]

You would finish at max-1 if you have Opportunity

[hollow river]

^

[limber lion]

Because of Cut to the Chase

[solid venture]

also when you have broadside roll 🙂

[floral vale]

Ah ok

[limber lion]

This too!

[hollow river]

How do you take a pic and post that fast sir

[limber lion]

Windows* + Shift + S

[floral vale]

Unless you’re running ghostly strike

[limber lion]

Okay okay, we get it

It was just an example boyos

[floral vale]

😂

[hollow river]

I need to brush up on my computing I’m good enough at sin for the time being >.>

[limber lion]

[solid venture]

[floral vale]

I’m pretty comfortable with outlaw at this point but new to sin and guild is asking me to do sin for Denny and Sludge on reclear

Much nerves

[limber lion]

You'll pick it up fast!

[knotty flame]

Don't worry shoshin

If you played sin the past couple expansion, it feels pretty close

[floral vale]

❤️

Hah not really. New to rogue this tier!

On sludge do you dump SBS on pillars?

[knotty flame]

You might just fall in love tho. Sin is pretty chill game play and good dmg

[limber lion]

Correct!

Normally you'd dump during gemstone, but Sludge is a different kind of beast.

[floral vale]

I’m mostly worried about lining things up on burst windows

[limber lion]

Breaks a lot of our rules.

[floral vale]

And keeping track of multi dotting

[limber lion]

Good nameplate setup will get you far.

[hollow river]

And WA pack

[limber lion]

There's not much to line up honestly, especially as Necro. Your Vanish/Vendetta always sync up. Shiv is the only thing that you need to track so you have it for the entire duration of Vend.

[knotty flame]

Yeah sludge is weird. I'm currently on my warrior but hoping to go back to rogue next tier as we have 2 fury wars now. And we had to pop reck on pull just to line it up for pillars

[limber lion]

You'll pick it up quick, no doubt about it.

[floral vale]

Any recommendations?

[limber lion]

Yep. I played NF Warlock on Sludge and had to pop the NF ability first

[limber lion]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[hollow river]

I like the red rogues progress bars

[floral vale]

You vanish after vendetta right?

[limber lion]

I personally use Afenar's pack.

[limber lion]

Yes, and during Shiv.

[knotty flame]

Sludge is big fun with the chain nerf, wasn't as fun before

[limber lion]

Vendetta -> Shiv -> Vanish

[floral vale]

So vendetta shiv then vanish? Ok ok

And ideally you Envenom before then?

[limber lion]

Yeah and with the smaller circle.

[hollow river]

Red rogues progress bars are awesome for beginners learning pandemic windows

[floral vale]

For ep?

[limber lion]

No, ideally you just use Shiv on cooldown. It doesn't matter if you have EP up or not.

[knotty flame]

That too. Makes melee super safe

[limber lion]

If you do the normal opener, you get EP from using Rupture.

[floral vale]

Right right

[limber lion]

SBS - SnD - Muti - Gar - Rup (EP!) - Vendetta - Shiv - Vanish

[floral vale]

Back to slamming the dummies for a bit

[limber lion]

Good luck buddy

[floral vale]

Thanks y’all you rock

[limber lion]

[knotty flame]

Of course. This is one of the good discords

[hollow river]

Cev how do I get afenars to glow on pandemics

[limber lion]

It does glow.

[hollow river]

Mine doesn’t

[limber lion]

Huh

[hollow river]

O.o

[alpine latch]

I'm so close to having an updated version of Afenars ...

[limber lion]

Here's my condition for my Rupture

[alpine latch]

My "isStunnable" broke and I need to fix it

[limber lion]

That's the pandemic condition.

Can you show me what yours looks like

[hollow river]

On mine the number just turns yellow

[knotty flame]

All this SBS talk and I'm over here as a venthy boi

[hollow river]

I’m on mobile atm

[limber lion]

Actually I think I know what it is

I think it broke when WA was updated one day

And you have to tick that small box yourself

[hollow river]

Oo

[limber lion]

This yellow small box next to "visibility"

You press that and it should light up

I mean, it's going to be blank/black for you

So you press it and it turns yellow

I do remember there being some sort of an issue like that

[hollow river]

Ok ty

[limber lion]

I do also recommend that you check the pandemic timers, because I think those were slightly off

Rupture 7.2, Garrote 5.4

[hollow river]

Good thing I’ve been using red rogues WA for pandemics lol

But I want to switch to just one pack

[limber lion]

Yeah, I just use Afenar

And I've added and modified quite a few things here and there

Instead of an icon tracking EP, I have a bar

I colored my Envenom bar green to differentiate

Fixed the Flag weakaura when it was updated

Etc.

[amber mountain]

.< I've been making my own WA's

I find the packs often have too much in them and configuring something I didn't make is a pain

[floral vale]

Do you know if there’s a simple way to have different WA packs per spec? I’m really used to my outlaw stuff I wish I could do like a different profile for sin

[amber mountain]

Yes you can

[hollow river]

I just have gemstone as an extra tracked WA

[limber lion]

There's other packs out there just for sin.

Or you can just simply change the load conditions to sin only

[amber mountain]

There's "Load" options for every WA and Class and Spec are in there

[hollow river]

And I’m gonna switch to the gemstone wa ryfie uses because mine doesn’t show the CD

[floral vale]

Ok cool ty ty

[limber lion]

Make sure to delete sub/outlaw only weakauras

Or you will be tracking roll the bones and whatnot as sin

and you don't want that

:p

[hollow river]

Afenars switches automatically doesn’t it

[limber lion]

Yes

But he doesn't want that for Outlaw.

[hollow river]

Oo

Got it lol

[limber lion]

If he changes the load condition of the entire pack to "Sin" it'll start showing sub/outlaw cd's as well

[hollow river]

Tbh I’m very tempted to get atrocity Ui

[limber lion]

It's a great UI.

Would highly recommend it.

[hollow river]

Oo

Yeah ik it’s just

[limber lion]

I'm just too used to my own UI at this point

[hollow river]

The jump to elvUI

Is scary

[limber lion]

It takes a while to get used to for sure.

But I mean if you just download Atrocity's UI, then you're good

You don't actually have to play around with Elvui too much

[hollow river]

Idk if my computer can handle it, like

[limber lion]

People (like me) who did the mistake of not finding a profile for themselves and did the entire UI from scratch

that's a huge thing

[hollow river]

The way the action bars highlighted was so off timing last time I tried using it

[limber lion]

Let me ask you this

Do you use raider.io?

[hollow river]

Yeah

[limber lion]

These are the top processes going on in my game currently

Elvui is below every raider.io iteration

below weak aura

below details

[vestal wren]

if you have the time and motivation for it i would suggest everyone to create a custom ui and avoid weakauras and elvui as much as possible

[limber lion]

Like, Elvui is not that heavy for your ocmputer.

[vestal wren]

btw. ceverion, memory usage is an irrelevant metric

[hollow river]

Why o:

[floral vale]

Avoid weakauras?? Fuu are you mad

[limber lion]

But weak auras and elvui are the tools that you use to create custom ui's

What would you use to create a custom ui

[alpine latch]

What, you don't grow your own wheat for your bread? The fuck dude, get your priorities straight /s

[vestal wren]

standalone addons for specific things

[limber lion]

Sure, but Elvui doesn't really affect performance in other way.

[hollow river]

Whaaaaaat

[vestal wren]

but letme first go into why you probably don't want to use elvui

*weakauras

[amber mountain]

I use WA as a standalone addon for specific things...

[limber lion]

You know you can create your own weak auras and customize them as well?

Like you don't have to use someone else's weak auras or pack.

[amber mountain]

That's what i do

[limber lion]

It's a standalone addon that you use to customize your UI

[vestal wren]

weakauras has a performance overhead due to its structure, you basically buy with your cpu cycles

[limber lion]

That's true, gotta give it to ya

[vestal wren]

a optimized weakauras still uses ~3 times the ressources a native addon uses

[amber mountain]

And the folks at WA are probably better at resource management than I am creating a pile of addons to do the same things

[limber lion]

What other native alternative would you use to get similar functionality?

[amber mountain]

When I replace my gaming PC with a potato... i'll dump WA

[lost mist]

Which covenant do u think will be "bis" in 9.1? i tested mythic ptr raid and as i can see there is a lot of fight where necro "should" beat venthyr. I love venthyr and hate necro BUT i love dps the most x.x

[limber lion]

Necrolord will likely be the go-to covenant for most things, but balance and tuning hasn't been done yet.

[amber mountain]

Go Venthyr then?

[limber lion]

Venthyr is still really strong for stuff like KT.

[floral vale]

Are you suggesting you just use the built in resource display and custom ability toolbars to track cds? I’ve considered this...

[lost mist]

sure, we cant confirm anything, but is wise to lvl up renown right now haha

and im so lazy x.x

[limber lion]

Venthyr only beats Necrolord in pure single target and has a different damage profile.

[limber lion]

I would recommend to do so yes

It doesn't take much to get your renown up

[hollow river]

A lot of guilds require WAs

[alpine latch]

No, he's suggesting to basically build your WA as a standalone addon so that it uses less resources than it would as a WA.

[limber lion]

You can just do the quests to swap back after you're done and then stay Necro or go back to Venthyr if you'd like.

[amber mountain]

@lost mist you'll likely do better DPS playing what you're comfortable with and happy with then shoe-horning yourself into a covenant for a small gain

[lost mist]

im actually doing nothing, killed dena like 3 months ago or so, i just log in to sell aotc haha

[limber lion]

I personally went Venthyr - Necro - Venthyr - Necro

[vestal wren]

no, i just say that weakauras has a cost, and if performance is critical (e.g. you want to play on very high frame rates) you probably want to only use weakauras in areas that you can't replace with native addons

[limber lion]

Yeh exactly.

I swapped back and forth twice

It's not that bad

I would recommend it

[strong wedge]

Is necrolord going to be bis for sin rogue as well like outlaw in 9.1?

[amber mountain]

Yeah, and saying the cost of WA is in CPU time... well the cost in building things outside of WA is ME time... sooooo i'll spend the CPU cycles that I have to spare

[lost mist]

i enjoy venthyr but i enjoy doing good dps too, so im switching necro, that way when the patch comes up i can go venthyr or necro, depends on changes and i will be happy haha ❤️

[alpine latch]

100%, but some people enjoy it. (I'm building multiple WoW related websites just for fun right now)

[limber lion]

Most likely, but tuning is not yet done.

[vestal wren]

an example crimson13, mystler did rebuild the trufigcd addon in a weakaura

and after optimization and measurement it was suprising that it used around 3 times the ressources

[hollow river]

Trufigcd?

[lost mist]

that's the right answer, right now necro seems to be better overall, BUT we arent on 9.1 yet, who knows, maybe kyrian will be bis with some changes lol

[vestal wren]

a energy bar can be even worse

https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/trufigcd

^ backstab

[lost mist]

@strong wedge

[vestal wren]

because the smooth process is very expensive and its iirc on by default

[limber lion]

Highly doubt it (and pray that it doesn't)

:p

[amber mountain]

I'm not saying your point is 100% invalid. There are absolutely resource gains for doing some things outside of WA. But if WA isn't actually impacting my system resources in a way that hampers my gameplay (it's not) then it's 100% not valid for me (or i imagine a good amount of the player base who doesn't build their own WA or addon libraries from scratch)

[strong wedge]

Thank you for response, I’m off to switch from venthyr to necro 🙂

[limber lion]

Good choice, welcome to the boneyboys!

[vestal wren]

thats a interesting discussion

[shy dust]

Depends

[vestal wren]

keep in mind that certain fights in recent history did force modern pc systems to its knees

[shy dust]

Could be venthyr could be necro

[limber lion]

I do agree that if WA doesn't destroy my computer, then I'm sticking to them.

[shy dust]

No way to know which is really better

[limber lion]

:p

[alpine latch]

Wasn't Plater the reason most people had insane lag spikes on Mythic Denathrius?

[limber lion]

No.

That's on Blizzard.

It's a server-sided issue

[grim jay]

@vestal wren never had any performanceissues tbf

[vestal wren]

while you probably have enough performance headroom, its irrelevant to talk about it