assassination

[shy dust]

Cant hear you over an 100 dps difference

[vestal wren]

sin is good on venthyr, but sub is dependent on it because subs legendary items are only 5% while both sin/outlaw have 8%+ legendary items. The venthyr legendary is one does beat the 5% and brings subtlety up to ~8% too

[limber lion]

make it 300 with the potion

[vestal wren]

venthyr is probably still the best in pure st

but necro is close enough

[hollow river]

imagine the gemstone SBS/Envenoms

in ST

probably won't pull ahead of doomblade but meh

[limber lion]

I mean all of that is possible with Doomblade.

Gemstone SBS/Envenoms don't exactly cancel out Doomblade. Maybe you meant to say Venthyr? :p

[faint harness]

What are the odds of some assa rogues going necrolord deathspike and doing 9.0 dps on st

[safe barn]

dude

i don't think im phiscally able to play outlaw anymore

sin must be OP for the sake of my health

[vestal wren]

it is atm on top of the melee dps chart

so for what its worth, it does seems rly good

[safe barn]

even on m+ enviroment?

[faint harness]

no

for st and low target cleave

[safe barn]

[gloomy knoll]

venth cheese patched

necro is de wae

[safe barn]

link?

[drifting cloud]

go on ptr and try it

[hollow river]

no i mean "more" sbs/envenoms with deathspike

[safe barn]

not enough space in my hd

[limber lion]

Ah right.

[gloomy knoll]

[limber lion]

• Use Tome
• Swap to Theotar with Refined Palate
• Pre pot
• Swap back to Nadja

Really funny isn't it.

[lapis pecan]

which soulbind for raid as kyrian? pins says pelagos and wowhead mikanikos

[alpine latch]

Sim it

[limber lion]

Don't play Kyrian. If you really must, then you should sim it.

[lapis pecan]

@limber lioni know it isnt great but im too lazy to switch and farm all that renown again

[short token]

guys i just swapped necro last night, i grinded up to renown 15 in LFR/callings etc. what's the best way to grind up renown at my level? low mythics? heroics?

[odd hazel]

M+, quest line, etc

Heroic

[void pecan]

Do the campaign

then grind

[limber swallow]

making sure you finish the campaign quest line is key. Nathria at every difficulty

[short token]

ok...also where the F does lashing scars drop?

[limber swallow]

and then M0's

[plain thistle]

calling and sire

you can get 200 ilvl lashing from calling, above that only sire or rng upgrade with stygia

[short token]

F me

ok ty

[odd hazel]

You can also get them from world bosses

[vapid nimbus]

So far, how bad is the difference between Vent and Necro in 9.1? Is it a lot bigger than right now in 9.05?

[limber lion]

It takes one, maybe two days. It's not that bad.

[odd hazel]

It’s about the same but necro gained a little dps in ST

Venth still too in ST and necro is the best in anything with more then one target

[limber lion]

We don't really know yet. All soulbinds/legendaries/items/trinkets etc. have not been implemented yet, so anything can change.

[odd hazel]

^this too. Sadly a LOT is in the air

Even sockets

[vapid nimbus]

Thanks guys

[limber lion]

You should do the raid on all difficulties, not just LFR.

[short token]

will do ty

[limber lion]

[quaint carbon]

pressing bonespike feels good

[limber lion]

Sure does, it's a very rewarding button to press most of the time.

[short token]

i just went back assass from being outlaw since god knows when man it feels so good, bone spike is just so smooth compared to Night fae

[limber lion]

Yep, and it fits assa very well.

It's a bit clunky on sub, but it's great on sin.

[deep solstice]

The venth leggo kinda makes Vendetta and Flag line up.....I doubt that is better than doomblade tho. But it would be a great quality of life thing.

[limber lion]

According to current sims, no. It's looking to be worse than Doomblade.

But ANYTHING CAN CHANGE

Domination sockets might spice things up

Among other things

[deep solstice]

tbh I wouldnt mind all of the covenant leggos being BIS leggo per covenant. At least situationally. They are all pretty fun and well designed. Maybe just not balanced well just yet.

And current BiS leggos are boring as fuck.

[limber lion]

Yeh definitely.

Most passive legendaries that just passively increase our damage are boring.

Deathspike is looking to be the best choice for AoE and M+. So that's at least exciting.

[deep solstice]

Ya. Doomspike is great. The venth one is mostly passive, but it rewards you for using flag well. The night fae one almost makes sepsis not awful. Kyrian has a legendary, presumably.

[limber lion]

Any Toxic Onslaught gamers

[sinful cradle]

Sepsis lego

[balmy condor]

Do you think humanity’s inherent need for self validation can change?

[limber lion]

Keyword: can
Will it? nah bro

[balmy condor]

Tru

[limber lion]

humanity's fucked

Gotta say that pizza tastes better when you're a bit tipsy.

[deep solstice]

Looked at the kyrian leggo.....damn that is awful. That might even be a dps loss. lol

" Echoing Reprimand now animacharges 4 combo points."

[balmy condor]

kyrian lego is actually quite a bit better than the fae one

[limber lion]

It's definitely not a loss when compared to a base item at 235 or whatever

[deep solstice]

Unless I am misunderstanding it, and it means it charges 4 different point values?

[balmy condor]

ye

[deep solstice]

Ah, ya that is really good then

[balmy condor]

it charges 2,3,4 and 5

it's not really good

it's still trash

[limber lion]

Still a bad covenant ability.

[balmy condor]

it's just nowhere near as bad as the fae one

[deep solstice]

I mean as a standalone effect / design it is really good. Not necessarily the dps value of it

[balmy condor]

fae lego can be a dps loss

which is hilarious to me

[deep solstice]

How would it ever be a dps loss?

[limber lion]

funny you ask

[deep solstice]

Oh I think I see

[balmy condor]

the buff you get can override the current buff

[deep solstice]

If it applies vendetta it overwrites your vendetta?

[balmy condor]

so if you have 10 seconds left

which is reasonable if you macro them together like a pleb

and then ambush immediately on proc

and you get vendetta

you just lost 2 seconds of vendetta

[deep solstice]

Hmm, ya they should def redesign it to not activate your current spec's ability

[balmy condor]

that's not much better

[limber lion]

It needs jesus.

[balmy condor]

it needs to go into the dumpster

and be replaced

[deep solstice]

Sepsis needs replaced, but we already know that

[balmy condor]

sepsis is fine

[limber lion]

Nah, Sepsis is dank

[balmy condor]

it's just nothing connected to sepsis is good

ambush isn't strong enough to be useful for the proc

the legendary is garbage

the soulbinds kinda suck which is why we don't play fae anymore

[deep solstice]

On one hand I like fae and would like them to buff it back, but on the other hand, 90% of specs play night fae so I understand them wanting some specs to not want night fae lol

also I really dislike sepsis, so, works for me

[limber lion]

I honestly think that SBS is the perfect covenant ability for assassination.

[deep solstice]

and even better for outlaw

mutilate is already kind of a very good builder, at least compared to the other 2 specs.

[limber lion]

It's no Shadowstrike, but yeh it's pretty great.

[deep solstice]

SBS mostly feels good for sin when you are emeni....being able to keep up the huge agi buff through your burst and get some low energy CP is nice.

[limber lion]

Idk, I just think it's the perfect ability in its design, regardless of soulbind.

A ranged bleed that scales off mastery/haste.

[deep solstice]

does sbs scale with sin mastery?

[limber lion]

Yes.

[deep solstice]

If only that mattered enough to make mastery a good stat lol

[nocturne geode]

any thoughts on where to craft the st/m+ lego w thw new raid gems being a thing

[balmy condor]

no idea atm

dashing cloak might be best

or if they give more slots to legendaries

or if the gems don't stack past 3

or if they wake up and change the system next week

[nocturne geode]

but right now were still using zold and doomblade generally right?

or did i miss read

nvm i got it

ill craft cloak for now thx

[winter vapor]

does anyone actually use emeni for m+ over bonesmith?

[delicate crater]

so Cloak is the new slot for Doomblade in 9.1?

[balmy condor]

[dawn ivy]

hooooow would we do cloak?

did that get an added slot? lol

[tired galleon]

Lots of leges got extra slots

[fathom swift]

pretty much all the ones that were only available on domination socket slots got extra

[dawn ivy]

didnt see any rogue ones get an extra slot but blunderbuss

[fathom swift]

log on ptr and check

[dawn ivy]

i only see shoulder hands

[fathom swift]

maybe that one doesnt have it yet then

[dawn ivy]

it would be nice, but im kinda fine with going dashing/something else next tier

[balmy condor]

Only one that got extra is blunderbuss

Which is why I said “if they give more slots” to begin with

[fathom swift]

if they do it for some seems pretty likely they'll do for all

[balmy condor]

We don’t know though

Why make assumptions

[thorny pond]

Never make assumptions of blizzard because you'll make an ass outta yourself

[safe barn]

did anything change on cov?

[balmy condor]

Sbs crits now

That’s pretty cool

Other than that, not really

[sonic schooner]

Whispyyyyr

[gusty mirage]

have you tried making a post about it?

🙂

I hear they're pretty effective

[balmy condor]

[safe barn]

when did that happen?

this week?

[balmy condor]

Yes

[safe barn]

ohh

i have to sim this

but wait, the dot crits or the hit?

[dawn ivy]

dot

the initial has always crit

always been able to*

[balmy condor]

Only the dot was the part that didn’t crit

It’s like 50-60 dps

[fathom swift]

no assumptions made

[safe barn]

still, great change

feels more like a bugfix but still

[balmy condor]

It definitely is a bugfix

But we had this convo yesterday while bolas was here and I don’t really want to repeat it

[fathom swift]

?

confused what you're trying to imply

[balmy condor]

I’m not implying anything

[fathom swift]

uhuh

[balmy condor]

It’s simply not a conversation I want to have

I’m happy the Paladin stuff is working out

[fathom swift]

same

[tawny veldt]

new Sin player here.. Internal bleeding doesnt work in raids?

[gusty mirage]

bosses are immune to stun

so it does not

[tawny veldt]

oh no.. i've been wasing so much combo points

thx

[gusty mirage]

np 🙂

[gloomy knoll]

whispyr deliver the secret necro scriptures

[balmy condor]

Doesn’t exist

[gloomy knoll]

when the world needed him most he vanished

[dawn ivy]

some of the soulbinds dont even work

let alone a sim working

[sonic schooner]

@balmy condor what about sbs crit ? :)

okok i was joking dont hit me too hard D:

[dawn ivy]

ur ded

[balmy condor]

Doesn’t change anything fundamental about the ability, so nothing to change in sims

[gloomy knoll]

https://media.tenor.com/images/adb20f7b06e2ea1ac3e5d17c6cb6c1ea/tenor.gif

[balmy condor]

If it was like “the dot stacks”

Then we’d be talking

But if it’s just the same thing but you have 2 more spikes, and they hit targets

Not much there

[ancient peak]

we stop maintaining garrote above 3 targets correct?

[dawn ivy]

you cant do more than 3

even as a robot

[balmy condor]

Yeah the cooldown doesn’t allow you to do more than 3

[ancient peak]

True. And what about rupture? We stop above 4 targets right?

Also, I'm seeing people use crimson tempest on single target? When are we supposed to do that?

[dawn ivy]

Typically using CT on fights that have consistent add/constant multi target

St you still keep CT up outside of shiv windows

but its normally not taken on pure ST like shriek/sludge

[ancient peak]

yeah I'm just looking at sire logs rn, so I'm seeing them use it against him in p3

thanks

[dawn ivy]

as for rupture, i personally dont have a "number"

just kinda get a feel for whats living and whats not

[balmy condor]

I have pins

on both of these topics

in the faq

[safe barn]

what did i do

[ancient peak]

thanks

[fleet whale]

is venthyr still usable in 9.1?

[gusty mirage]

did something happen for it to be unusable?

[fleet whale]

idk i just hear a lot of hype for necro

[lean meteor]

The leggo is very good for keys

But that’s p much it

[balmy condor]

not for sin it's not

or do you mean the necro one

idk if we're talking venth or necro

[rugged sandal]

bs and ds for mythic sire?

[balmy condor]

ye

[rugged sandal]

okay

ill try it cause, i was running vigor and ep but someone told me bs and ds is better

[balmy condor]

you run blindside specifically for p3

EP/vig is for more damage on multiple targets

like p1/p2 adds

but if you're progging, should definitely not play EP

[rugged sandal]

yeah and my comp we dont have an issue with the adds so i guess its better

got it

tyvm

[balmy condor]

np

[rugged sandal]

and just to clarify its okay to finish on 5 with ds

right?

[balmy condor]

always max-1

deeper you finish on 5, generate on 4

vigor finish 4, generate on 3

[frank venture]

hi i am new to playing rogue, should i be crafting doomblade on hands or shoulders for 9.1? will the raid gear with domination shards mean I shouldn't craft them on the shoulders slot?

[balmy condor]

shouldn't craft them on hands either by the same logic

we don't know what to craft where currently

[frank venture]

my thinking behind not crafting on shoulders is because kel'thuzad 2nd last boss drops shoulders with domination socket

[balmy condor]

yes

there are hands with sockets as well

[frank venture]

but not from either of the last 2 bosses, so lower ilvl

[balmy condor]

okay?

[frank venture]

that should affect your decision right

[balmy condor]

shoulders are definitely not the play

but with the sockets, there's a good chance that the hands arent either

[frank venture]

can we even craft them in a different slot

[balmy condor]

not as far as we know

blunderbuss got a third lego slot

but that's all for rogue legos atm

[thorny pond]

Osh is convinced Dashing will be the play

[frank venture]

alright so I should hold off then on crafting lego until we know more

[balmy condor]

osh is convinced about many things

[balmy condor]

correct

[frank venture]

ty

[thorny pond]

Mastery Dashing lol

[fathom swift]

theres no downside to crafting something now except gold and soul ash

and soul ash is basically free atm so

[balmy condor]

you just listed 2 downsides

[fathom swift]

are u ok whispyr

[balmy condor]

yeah I'm doing well thanks for asking

[granite thistle]

anyone have a nice lil SBS weak aura 🙂

[fathom swift]

everything good?

[balmy condor]

yeah I'm good

are you good?

[fathom swift]

ye

[balmy condor]

cool

[fathom swift]

just seem argumentative

[balmy condor]

I get argumentative when people say things that don't really make sense

but we correct it and move on

so it's all good

[frank venture]

i didn't read him that way, he was helpful

[fathom swift]

ty 🙂

[balmy condor]

I try my best

[fathom swift]

like

i dont have anything against you personally

no need to be passive aggressive about everything i type here

[balmy condor]

I don't have anything against you either

I just don't get why you come in and say things that I have to then correct all the time

it's okay that it's not your main class/spec/whatever

I know you got a lot on your plate with ret

so if you don't know, it's fine

[fathom swift]

nah i main rogue atm

i have mained it on prog for a while

[balmy condor]

hm

[ember jay]

[balmy condor]

then it makes even less sense to me

[fathom swift]

what does

[balmy condor]

this

[fathom swift]

i mean

that doesnt really happen

[balmy condor]

It's happened a couple times in the last week

[fathom swift]

example pls

[balmy condor]

last night

5 minutes ago

[stoic needle]

[fathom swift]

about the bugs? and crafting legendaries?

thats nothing to do with rogue specifically

[balmy condor]

sure, but it's still advice that isn't really that great now is it

[sweet sorrel]

https://tenor.com/view/thriller-michael-jackson-eating-popcorn-watching-gif-5577709

[ember jay]

[fathom swift]

is it not?

that seems more like a difference of opinion than a factual issue

[balmy condor]

the factual issue is that we don't know any better

and the opinion is that you don't care that we don't know better

[stoic needle]

I'm convinced that we have no idea what blizzard is going to do with the sockets, and that we don't even know how much the gems will be worth individually

[lean meteor]

was talking about the necro specific leggo ye

[fathom swift]

about what?

[stoic needle]

I hate this game of telephone y'all play with the things I say

[balmy condor]

ah yea, the necro one is pretty good

[balmy condor]

about what slot, if any slot we're getting for doom, about how the sockets will impact that

[stoic needle]

I said that dashing MIGHT THEORETICALLY POSSIBLY BE BIS that's far cry from being convinced everyone should go craft dashing

[thorny pond]

I can get behind that Osh. Sorry for taking it out of context

[fathom swift]

thats a very weird way to read that conversation

but past the conversations today and yesterday

can you point to anything I've said that is actual misinformation

[ember jay]

this conversation is dumb asf 🍿

[fathom swift]

rather than just a difference of opinion

[frank venture]

i think you're reading into it too much bolas

[fathom swift]

i dont think so

[balmy condor]

I just don't like that you suggest things that we need more information on to give a proper suggestion

[odd hazel]

that

guy was going on about this earlier

when i mentioned we might craft dashing because of sockets

:^)

MIGHT

[balmy condor]

we might craft dashing on cloak

we might craft doomblade on a fucking ring

who knows

I don't

blizzard doesn't

[stoic needle]

Doomblade ring would be pog

[odd hazel]

but

[stoic needle]

Actually no it wouldn't

[odd hazel]

that requires blizz to think wisely

[stoic needle]

Because of those 2 insane crit rings in sanctum

That are like 75% crit 25% other

[fathom swift]

i didnt do that

go back and read my messages

[odd hazel]

i mean, all we pretty much said as far as i know of. we MIGHT craft dashing because sockets might be worth more and that was @stoic needle specifically. we cant test anything if NOTHING is entirely out.

a proper suggestion cant be made

[fathom swift]

im very confused why you guys are randomly bandwagoning about stuff i literally did not say

[twilit hollow]

[balmy condor]

I really don't want to argue with you about this man, I don't have anything against you, all I want is that we wait for info, and in the last couple convo's we've had about it, it's been pretty clear that you disagree with some of that philosophy. I don't want to lead people astray wasting money on legendaries that they'll have to recraft, and I don't want people wasting time getting ash that could've been better spent. At the end of the day, it's just about educating the masses effectively, and until I'm sure that something is actually better or worse, I'm not going to give an answer on it

and as long as we can agree on that, we're chilling

[fathom swift]

i dont have any problem waiting for info to make decisions, i just dont understand why you think i disagree with that

[steep obsidian]

my hot take is that personally its bad design if you can make those mistakes and then have them set you behind and blizzard should just fkn fix that

[fathom swift]

if someone has a ton of gold there's really not a large downside to crafting legendaries now if they want to do content with them before the patch comes out, I wouldn't say it's good to do so but it's a personal choice they can make

[stoic needle]

Why would they fix something that makes them more money by making people playing longer?

[odd hazel]

why waste soul ash though?

[steep obsidian]

i dont pay by the hour

[balmy condor]

aight if we don't have any problem waiting for info to make a decision, then we agree on my point, and we're chilling

thank you

[steep obsidian]

i dont even log on rn outside of raid

[solar rose]

Reading this conversation hurts my brain

[stoic needle]

More time spent in Torghast/farming gold = more engagement for blizzard

[limber swallow]

agreed.. and yet I cannot look away....

[fathom swift]

soul ash is basically free, amount you get weekly doubles in 9.1 and can send from alts

[odd hazel]

but, you could save soul ash and spend it correctly at the moment you need it. or send to a alt.

[stoic needle]

That's why they add very obvious features that should be in the game from day 1 in a .5 patch as 'qol'

[solar rose]

Time and gold is not free

[fathom swift]

yep, you can definitely do that, so its up to the individual whether its worth it or not

[odd hazel]

i mean

no

its certainly not worth it to ANYONE to do that

just save your ash unless you need to build doom or zold

[fathom swift]

if they want to use a legendary to play with for the next month before 9.1 then yeah

[odd hazel]

you're cucking your self that way

[fathom swift]

it is worth it

[odd hazel]

its not "worth" it. its a waste rather you want to do it or not but to each their own

[fathom swift]

yeah different people value time/gold/having x legendary now differently

[odd hazel]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[solar rose]

Did you know the sky is blue

[balmy condor]

idk bout you guys

but I think shiv is a pretty cool ability

I wish that shiv were better

[odd hazel]

Shiv? if only the shiv leggo was good

[stoic needle]

Shiv should spread bleeds to a nearby Target

[limber swallow]

<-- is dumb today.

[balmy condor]

bone spike does apply poisons

[limber swallow]

wut? rly?
Do the bonus hits (IE in torghast w/the anima power?)

[balmy condor]

that idk

could be janky and not do it

[limber swallow]

well... if they do.. that'd be nice for cleave.. I don't think the bonus hits apply the dot.

[balmy condor]

but in theory it's the same projectile'

so it should apply

[balmy condor]

the original ttb

what a time

[west garnet]

If it does apply that means one cast can theoretically refund 3 more. That’s pretty nifty.

[balmy condor]

oh we're talking poisons

it for sure does that with deathspike

[ember jay]

are u sure about that? on ptr it doesnt

[west garnet]

Oh okay mb

[balmy condor]

the refund stuff

[balmy condor]

the extra ones or the original one?

[ember jay]

both

[balmy condor]

so if you're in stealth, and you spike from a distance, poisons aren't applied?

that's kinda weird honestly

I'm like 90% sure they should

[ember jay]

1s would like to try but impossible to stay in stealh with the stupid gem bug

[limber swallow]

checking right now

doesn't look like it

[west garnet]

If it doesn’t apply that’s dumb. Considering we already have a ranged button that applies poisons there’s no reason for bone spike to not be able to do it too

[ember jay]

yeah so no I confirm it doesnt even in stealth

[balmy condor]

wiiiiiiiiiiiiild

[limber swallow]

I can think of a few reasons they didn't want it to.. most are pvp related

being able to reliably apply wound or crippling from range would probably be a bit strong

[balmy condor]

throw dagger does that

[west garnet]

We can already do that with poisoned knife yeah

[balmy condor]

it's guaranteed even

[limber swallow]

yea, but it doesn't generate a billion combo points

[balmy condor]

yeah I guess

[stoic needle]

I'm so sad they never made it work

[balmy condor]

idk I feel like that's a weird niche that they could just fix in pvp tuning

[limber swallow]

it also costs 40 energy

[balmy condor]

the most interesting legendary we had tbh

[stoic needle]

People use pk in pvp for applying Crip and wound on demand

It should've just been a baseline talent for the spec

[ember jay]

bonespike applies Numbing 🤔

[limber swallow]

weird

[stoic needle]

Make our 2t even more insane

[balmy condor]

blizzard spaghetti

strikes again

[west garnet]

Inconsistency is like, modern WoW in a nutshell

[stoic needle]

Yeah I don't think it applies deadly

[limber swallow]

it doesn't.

[odd hazel]

i wish the leggos were more interactive.

all passives feels bad

[hollow river]

does any1 else SBS ever bug out?

[gleaming tiger]

gm guys can i ask smt about stats is 7 versa so shit to play?

[west garnet]

Like evasion working on some whirlwind attacks but not others for no particular reason

[hollow river]

or can it just not give CP sometimes?

[limber swallow]

it applies wound.....

wtf...

[west garnet]

I’ve had it only give one no matter how many I have out before, and have sometimes had it not refund a charge if the target dies during the travel time, but haven’t seen it give 0

[hollow river]

I've had it give 0 CP multiple times now.

Unless maybe my WA is bugging but I don't see why it would.

[stoic needle]

Saaaaaame

[odd hazel]

like

doom is fine but like--- its just

[stoic needle]

@hollow river did the thing die before the spike hit?

[odd hazel]

oh we still just use mut

[hollow river]

Nope, happens on raid bosses.

[stoic needle]

Oh

It was deflected

[hollow river]

[stoic needle]

Every single rogue legendary is this way except for... MA, DS, the rotten

It's actually sad

None of them change our rotation

[granite thistle]

Rogue brothers. I require assistance

[odd hazel]

yeah but MA isnt really rotation changing, you just prioritize

[stoic needle]

Imagine if zoldyck was like: when your target is undrr 30% hp, your envenoms do damage equal to the remaining duration of rupture and consume the rupture dot

So you go build > rup > env

Over and over

And just do insane damage

Or something

There's so many different things you could do

But nah

[granite thistle]

I was doing Denathrius LFR (DONT JUDGE ME, I AM RENOWN FARMING OK), SBS was giving me 5 CPs every time? Does it stick on Ramornia the whole time?

[stoic needle]

Our legendaries are boring

[limber swallow]

it won't be as much fun as you think.. that's how wotlk DK worked.

[hollow river]

New necro legendary will change rotation a tiny bit :<

[hollow river]

yes

[granite thistle]

thats a major kekw honestly

[west garnet]

It stays on Remornia all of P2 so if you have a few out you’ll get heaps of CPs yeah

[stoic needle]

Sounds fun to me but I didn't play WOTLK dk

[odd hazel]

it stays unti ldead.

[granite thistle]

Sorry, let me clarify, in P3 it gave me 5 CPs

[odd hazel]

did you also target other mobs?

[stoic needle]

Yep, this is why necro is bis for denathrius

[granite thistle]

In p3?

[odd hazel]

Yes

[hollow river]

It stays on adds after they die technically doesn't it?

Or some weird thing

[balmy condor]

they go away after a while

[limber swallow]

yea, you fired off your 2 diseases and then used something like obliterate to consume them.. it did extra damage for every disease up

[stoic needle]

Well yeah but there are no named adds in p2 lfr

[west garnet]

Oh it does it in p3 too? Huh. I haven’t raided enough to really pay attention; just been a mythic junky

[balmy condor]

but it stays for a like a minute or a minute and a half

it's really weird

[granite thistle]

thats.. hilarious

[hollow river]

Yep

[granite thistle]

lmfao

ok thanks

fucking free envenoms

[hollow river]

Double yep

[balmy condor]

[west garnet]

You never did this, if you obliterated you took the talent that made it keep the diseases afterward. Except for disease less blood but that was stupid

[granite thistle]

Im out here trying to get 34 RN before tuesdays raid. Was 1 yesterday. 10 today

[clear shadow]

!rotation

[limber swallow]

wasn't that talent introduced later on?

[stoic needle]

I would just like our legendaries to make us do something different instead of just being invisible % damage increases

[granite thistle]

IM OWNING

[balmy condor]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[clear shadow]

ty

[west garnet]

Nah day 1. Early on in naxx there was a build that just didn’t use diseases at all but if you did and used obliterate you used the talent, cause wiping your diseases was usually a really bad idea

[limber swallow]

Ahh.. Annihilation. You're right. I forgot about that talent.

[west garnet]

When Wrath came out my Rogue got abandoned for a year and a half. Still remember all about em cause I went so hard on the class lol

[limber swallow]

yea, the mechanic is there w/o the talent.. oblit consumed diseases, everyone just ran the talent anyway and blizz made the effect baseline in cata because it felt mandatory and the talent just boosted damage.

anyone remember this gem (never made live)

[heavy basalt]

what is the best way to find a guild? just quit the rando one that invited me

[west garnet]

I wonder if it would’ve been able to bounce back and forth. That would’ve been so silly

[limber swallow]

I don't think they every actually implemented it. I remember the pandaria PTR it having an (NYI) tag on it and then a few weeks later it was just gone. An effect like that now would probably be kinda crazy.

[west garnet]

Depending on whether or not it resets duration when it jumps, and how liberal it is with the description of "bleed" if you were lucky you could just get CT, Rupture and Garrote to bounce back and forth forever. Maybe even Internal Bleeding who knows

[limber swallow]

yea, the question is would it just deal the damage or apply the dot as well, and in either case would it trigger the energy regen effect if the target was poisoned. If it's applying the dot for any duration, it's kinda crazy and would make openers in M+ packs weirder than they are.
Your third or 4th garrote target for example might end up already with the dot on them before you could target them.

[stoic needle]

wow forums, wow progress, the warcraftlogs guild recruitment tool

[clear shadow]

is there like a bis list somewhere reliable i can use for referance?

[slow marsh]

Nope sim yourself

Droptimizer

[balmy condor]

used to be, and then people decided bis is better than simming themselves, and giga trolling on things like their vault, etc

so then I had to yoink it cause it was doing more harm than good

[tender hare]

Why does doomblade go on hands and not shoulder? Pinned comment says "because slg shoulders" what is slg?

[balmy condor]

stone legion generals

[tender hare]

Ohh, people swap leggo for generals?

[balmy condor]

no

the shoulders off of generals is a higher ilvl than everything else

generals and sire are +7 ilvl compared to the rest of the drops

[tender hare]

Ohh i see

[balmy condor]

which makes them better by default

that shoulder ilvl trend is continuing in the next raid as well

but we don't know the socket situation

so we don't have a legendary recommendation for 9.1 currently

[tender hare]

And talents list as say 3-3-2-0-0-2-1...does the two zero's in the middle mean that the choice is negligible?

[balmy condor]

correct, those are utility rows and have no impact on damage

[tender hare]

Ok cool just had to clarify. Im just about to finally make my legendary for assas and i just need all my ducks in a row

[balmy condor]

yeah all good

rather ask and be sure

[tender hare]

Is that the talents you personslly use for raid?

*the ones listed for ST in pinned comments?

[balmy condor]

depends on the fight

shriek is a 332, altimor is 2210023

slg is 2210023 or 2310023 usually

sire is 3320023

[tender hare]

Oh wow do you change on the fly?!

[balmy condor]

if I want to be optimal yeah

if it's just a farm run

I don't really care that much

231 or 221 will take you through the whole raid perfectly fine

[tender hare]

What would you be farming raid for??

[balmy condor]

I kinda just take 2310021 and then roll with that

[tender hare]

You need aoe for sire?

[balmy condor]

CT is pretty good cause theres a lot of movement

the aoe in there is mostly irrelevant and gets nuked down anyway

but it helps a little

[tender hare]

I see

[balmy condor]

poison bomb is a ground effect

so boss movement kinda screws over the whole thing

[tender hare]

My ivl is 195, should I be running LFR's for my gear?

[balmy condor]

weekly lfr would be a good start

really just anything with ilvl

should be a couple of world quests that have higher ilvl stuff

trying to get into a couple of keys would be good since it's infinite gear pretty much

if you have a guild or some friends, that's pretty quick

[tender hare]

Ok cool, i ran a few times through the raid but was tough on heroic i had to leave one time because i wassnt enough dps. Thats when i decided to swap to assas

[balmy condor]

that's probably the ilvl mostly

the difference from 195 to say 215 is quite large

[tender hare]

And how about the covenant gear? Should I be upgrading that or is it just a side-grade to raid and mythic+ gear?

[balmy condor]

depends on how available other sources of gear are for you

I personally wouldn't even know how to upgrade them

didn't touch them at all

[tender hare]

Ok cool i was hoping you would say something like that lol. So much anima to upgrade id rather raid for my gear like i used to

Also, it looks like daggers dont drop from raid so is M+ the place where I go to get dagger upgrades?

[solid mica]

You get weapons in raid from the tokens that drop, but youd have an easier time getting one from m+ most likely since it's not gated

[balmy condor]

yeah like yaga said

[tender hare]

Oh you get tokens from raid? Dang i had no idea. Where is the vendor for raid gear?

[balmy condor]

in your cov sanctum

there's vendors in some corner

[tender hare]

Ok sweet. Is there a bis pair of daggers I should aim for?

[balmy condor]

sire, similar to slg, drops daggesr 7 ilvl higher than normal

so ideally 233's from him from mythic

that's probably not happening soon from the sounds of it

so any 220's with valor, 226 from the vault, or even 213's from early heroic, 220 from heroic sire

all good for now

[tender hare]

Awesome thanks so much gonna screenshot that lol. Si i hit shift+J and look at mythic sire drops and I dont see any daggers, but you said he drops daggers?

[balmy condor]

kind of a long road ahead of you from what I gather so anything that has higher ilvl is pretty much good to go

raid daggers are tokens

you're looking for a red anima spherical thing

[tender hare]

Ohh gotcha

Tokens only drop on mythic raid?

[balmy condor]

no they drop on the lower difficulties as well

at the reduced ilvl

so 213 from early heroic, 220 from sire

200 from early normal, 207 from sire

[tender hare]

Ive killed sire in LFR but dont see any tokens in my currency tab

[balmy condor]

they're not 100% drop

some people go months without seeing it

like @limber lion

he's still looking for 233's

[tender hare]

Aww frig..

You can buy 220's with valor? Where is valor vendor?

[balmy condor]

you get valor by running m+ over and over and over

there's a vendor in your sanctum, or oribos

item upgrader

[tender hare]

I do have 565 valor

[balmy condor]

the other thing about valor

is that the cap for items change

so you'll probably see an item from m+

that says upgrade level 3/12 or something to that effect

you need to get a series of achievements if you want to get higher ilvl upgrades

so all dungeons in time at +5 raises it, +10 raises it again, and +15 raises it to the final cap of 220

[tender hare]

Damn..it might be a minute before i can do a +15..:(

[balmy condor]

yeah happens

like I said

you're in for a journey

with 9.1 on the horizon all the item levels of drops will go up

[tender hare]

Well if it bumps my ilvl ill just have to take what i can get atm

[balmy condor]

it won't work retroactively obviously

so you'll need new gear

but start of patches are usually a good time to jump in

[obsidian crater]

Vault also have gear too and if you run mythic dungeon, the gear will be high in the vault too.

[balmy condor]

I'd take what you can in terms of upgrades atm, get the system knowledge and some experience, make some friends along the way, and then you're ready to dive in for 9.1

yeah the vault is a good source of gear as well

[tender hare]

Yea last week i took a pair of 213 legs over a lvl 200 dagger just fi
Or the ilvls. My daggers are both 171 pos

[balmy condor]

ah yeah

so the thing to note

is that mainhand dagger

is the most important upgrade

by a pretty comfortable margin

[obsidian crater]

Cant you get an lfr weapon token from doing the convent story

[balmy condor]

not sure

I think so

[tender hare]

My guild is pretty solid, the carried me through heroic sire and im good with mechanics but just need better gear

[obsidian crater]

Just one I think

[balmy condor]

honestly the fact that your guild can do that and kill heroic sire already puts you quite a bit ahead in terms of gear availability

[obsidian crater]

Yeah

[balmy condor]

the biggest thing holding people back from getting higher gear is usually a lack of help around them doing content

[tender hare]

For sure. I just want to be more helpful on raid nights

[balmy condor]

having to pug keys is usually painful

pugging raids is pretty awful too

you'll get gatekept a lot

so having a guild

A+

[tender hare]

Main hand is your toons right hand but your characters leftmost weapon slot yes?

[balmy condor]

left slot yes

that should always be the highest ilvl dagger

[tender hare]

Ok cool i was wondering because my daggers have the same numerical stats so i guess it doesn't matter then?

[balmy condor]

I'm gonna assume you aren't too comfortable with raidbots or simulations in general yet?

[tender hare]

Correct

[balmy condor]

yeah okay

so usually you'll hear a lot of "sim yourself" around here

atm wouldn't worry about it too much, just higher ilvl on everything

but eventually when you want to optimize yourself and check if things really are upgrades

that would be a good skill to have

there's tutorials for that

[thorny pond]

https://www.wowhead.com/how-to-use-raidbots-sims-stat-weights

I'd bookmark this

[balmy condor]

yeaht

that's the one

if it's overwhelming atm, don't stress it

at your ilvl, pretty much anything that shines is an upgrade

[thorny pond]

Even if you are just playing with it and have no idea what it does its nice to just dip a toe or 2 in

[tender hare]

I definately will when the time comes. I think im a bit lowbie for that atm

[balmy condor]

yep yep

definitely understand that

[tender hare]

I do remember simming in the past on heroic SoO

[balmy condor]

ah yes

[thorny pond]

Pretty similar to that. You probably used ask Mr robot

[balmy condor]

yeh

it's changed quite a bit since then, for the better

but the core concept is the same

[tender hare]

Yes! Man that name takes me back!

[balmy condor]

we hate ask mr robot round these parts

[thorny pond]

It's much more modern now and cleaner what we do

[balmy condor]

cause they're full of nonsense and jank

but that's a very long history lesson

[tender hare]

Gotcha so raidbots is the new go-to?

[thorny pond]

Yessir

[tender hare]

Ok thanks so much I will keep that in mind!

[thorny pond]

Sin channel here is a good source for that. Some askholes but if you have a question most of us can query and answer it in regards to raidbots

[tender hare]

Killer, I sure do appreciate it!

[thorny pond]

That's 100k YouTube views if you do a nice video though

[balmy condor]

yeah can't be fucked

25 minute video and my blood pressure would skyrocket 30 seconds in

[tender hare]

Lol

[balmy condor]

basically the TLDR is amr kinda jank sims that no one really knows how they work

class discord and simulationcraft/raidbots comes around and gets popular

amr stumbles in and slanders the class discords using data that they have no real way of getting

the community backlash is so intense they walk everything back hella hard

[fleet whale]

simcraft has been around for a long time, raidbots just made it much easier for most people to usei it

[balmy condor]

and then they just kinda disappear into the shadows

yeah simulationcraft has been around but because AMR's accessability, it wasn't really a SUPER popular option ya know

really started to take off like mid-late wod into legion

and then raidbots was giga in legion

[fleet whale]

def in legion is when raidbots started to take off

and funnily enough, raidbots was almost an entirely different thing in MoP

it sort of worked like WCL

[tender hare]

You were saying you could buy a dagger with valor, did you mean honor? I looked and only see an honor vendor selling daggers

Or is it just valor for upgrades?

[balmy condor]

valor is for upgrades

pvp can buy items using conquest

we don't like pvp

[fleet whale]

yeah but sometimes pvp is the best way to get gear

if you're really struggling getting an item

[balmy condor]

not worth my sanity personally

but if you can stand it

yeh

[tender hare]

Yea i dont like pvp either. If it just takes a few bg's to get a 200 dagger?

900 conquest

[fleet whale]

arena/rbgs would be more efficient to get that 200 dagger

[tender hare]

Do you get currency even if your team loses?

[fleet whale]

for arenas you have to win

not sure on rbgs

i mean if you are struggling for a dagger, you can get a 197 one from the honor vendor

it starts at low ilvl but you can upgrade it up to 197

[tender hare]

I see a dagger at honor vendor but its a 158

[fleet whale]

yeah you can upgrade it

with more honor

to up to 197

[tender hare]

I see. But damn i hate pvp i yhink ill try to get lucky in LFR

[slow marsh]

Bros holy shit p3 sire is such a cluster

[balmy condor]

yuh

[hazy crater]

It might feel that way but after some pulls it just is super telegraphed

everything happens exactly the same

[slow marsh]

Yeah I was getting that feel after a few times getting there

[vestal wren]

amr just did make the wrong approach, instead of building on simc they did try to create their own simulation.
The problem is nobody was eager to engage with their software when simc is already so popular.
A worse implementation, documentation and being proprietary software did not convince a lot to contribute to their project for free and hence they need to do a lot by themselves.
So, you can image what happens if one person is in charge of changing/optimizing 24 apls with partly even different approaches to evaluation

[balmy condor]

Yeh

[vestal wren]

e.g. the amr apl did in legion go with "how people play" and i did go with what i found out to be best..
This was a huge difference in output in the magnitude, and is still one of my main points in the discussion about experience based evaluation/optimization (we talk about ~10-25% dps differences iirc).

we did discuss the apl problems partly in the tc channels given amr was not very keen with me telling people that their tool shouldn't be used for evaluation

[lost horizon]

I haven't even seen amr referenced in like, 4 tiers

[vestal wren]

and they eventually adopted the rotation we used in simc what closed the gap in output quite a bit

tbh i haven't followed amr development and therefore can't comment on whats good/bad

one of the big arguments for amr back then was that their assassination implementation was about equal in output to the simc apl.

This was partly the case because we lacked in contribution and later at the end of legion changed

So the best argument amr has is probably still that they maybe have as good or even slightly better implementations of specs with bad contribution or apl development

e.g. i could do a experiment and compare wl on amr to simc, and it could come out in amr's favour

[primal zodiac]

shadowcraft was discontinued around the time raidbots gained popularity right? i fondly remember this site

[soft shale]

i think raidbots came way later

[quaint carbon]

on m+ should i use bonespike like a garrot (multi hit) opr 3x tje same ?

[tulip nacelle]

as many targets as possible

[limber lion]

Just don't overcap cp by casting it 3 times in a row

Sbs - sbs - rup - sbs instead

[placid pagoda]

Is necro the play for assa pve for 9.1 or is it better to stay venth?

[sacred isle]

You can stay venth. Its looking to still be best for st. But necro will win in every fight where there is adds or more than 1 boss.

[placid pagoda]

Thanks man

[sacred isle]

And the st difference between venth and necro is negligible

So overall most rogues will be going necro

[placid pagoda]

So may be worth rolling necro for that aoe gain regardless?

[placid pagoda]

Ye would make sense if the st difference is tiny

[primal zodiac]

so i looked at a couple of logs , and im basicly just asking to doublecheck: its not worth putting bleeds on other council members for energy reg, correct?

[tulip nacelle]

also depends if you want to offspec, if you want to play sub as well stay venth, if you want to offspec outlaw go necro

[tulip nacelle]

it is

keep gar and rup on one nonactive boss

[primal zodiac]

alright, thanks for the help 🙂

[limber lion]

It's honestly quite a small gain, so a lot people just tend to not bother as it can just mess with your focus and make you mess up your normal rotation.

[primal zodiac]

we're starting progress tonight, so i guess i should concentrate on playing mechanics cleanly before thinking of optimizing dps

[limber lion]

Definitely

[primal zodiac]

but again thank you for your input

[limber lion]

I would only recommend the multi-bleeding on farm kills

Council is a very mechanic-heavy and hectic fight

[sacred isle]

well sbs should be on all bosses if your necro 🙂

[limber lion]

Yeh, for sure.

[viral meadow]

do the bolts from P2 start in sire silence rogue kick?

rather not do it for science

[limber lion]

Silence does not affect our kit in any way whatsoever.

You can still continue your rotation and use kicks as normal.

[viral meadow]

ty

[winter vapor]

MFD with MA leggo in M+, MfD into CT for opener, but otherwise just get 5 bleeds et al as 'normal' right?

[winter vapor]

ah, goes to show, you think you know the pins... ty cev, as usual

[limber lion]

So with the MA lego, you play Nightstalker MFD CT. With that build you would open with MFD - CT - Fok - Rup - Fok - Rup - Gar. After that you just apply all the bleeds you can to everything that lives long enough, maintaining SnD with Envenom.

No worries mate.

[winter vapor]

throwing in SBS as usual I presume

[limber lion]

Yep! And I just edited the comment to also include maintaining SnD with Envenoms.

That's really important

[winter vapor]

yeah, I need a better weak aura for SnD

not big and flashy enough, 'PRESS ENVENOM PLEB' in big writing would be better

[limber lion]

Hah yeah for sure. I have to consistently remind myself to reapply it as well, especially in very large packs.

[winter vapor]

I ended up wanting to try it as I went into M+ with MA still talented yesterday, was like 'ooo big numbers with CT'

[limber lion]

Yeah, it's pretty fun to play, especially on lower keys. It's a lot more upfront burst when compared to Zoldyck

[royal fjord]

guys im kinda confused, trying to learn assa in M+ (people tell me its easy) and im completely overwhelmed with applying garrote/rupture/crimson, tracking it while kicking spells and positions.. like its defeniteley not easier than outlaw isnt it?

[tulip nacelle]

in aoe it isn't

[fallen arch]

Wayyy more fun tho

Especially as a stinky boy

[fallen arch]

Give it some practice in low keys

But yeh, you are swapping targets a lot

[royal fjord]

Do you would recommend swapping targets by clicking them or just rotate through them with "target neareast enemy" keybind? gotta practice a lot really confusing especially when u want to min max sbs too

[limber lion]

I just tab target everything.

I apply bleeds to one target, tab, apply bleeds, tab, apply bleeds etc.

Assassination is definitely the harder spec for AoE generally, but it's very personal. Some people think that tracking bleeds on multiple targets is easier than Outlaw. It's a different kind of difficulty.

[scenic meteor]

Is slice and dice important to keep up in aoe? Since I’m not using envenoms it runs out often

[hollow dirge]

Same . Once in your fingers , you know how to turn and where to stand to tab specific targets. Mouse clicking a target nameplate is last option , use it only when there’s a lot of mobs and some require focus

[limber lion]

Yes, you should always keep SnD up regardless of target count.

[hollow dirge]

Always keep it up.

[limber lion]

You keep it up with Envenom

Even if that means having to delay casting a rupture on a target, especially if you're already at a saturated energy level (5+ bleeds)

[scenic meteor]

Ok that’s something I have been doing wrong, if it’s about to run out do you envenom just to keep it up? Or re apply snd

[scenic meteor]

Ahh thanks

[limber lion]

You keep it up with Envenoms only.

[royal fjord]

I have no problems with my opener since thats actually simple in AoE, but when the targets live long enough im not able to reapply my dots properly while keeping track of kicks and positiong.. guess its just practice practice practice ^^

[limber lion]

Yeah, I only click nameplates if there's a large amount of mobs and you have to target a specific one.

[limber lion]

Yeah that's definitely it. Just need to play more and keep practicing.

[scenic meteor]

Ok so stealth, garrotte 3 empowered, one nonempowered, then crimson tempest, FoK to build points, rupture on all

If you know the mobs won’t last a full rupture can you just stick a 3cp rupture on each target?

[limber lion]

Yep, applying SBS if using that, using cooldowns (Vend/Shiv/Vanish) when possible and keeping Envenom up.

[limber lion]

Those are very edge cases and usually you should prio just slamming ruptures on the big targets that do live an extended period.

But yeah, applying small ruptures can be fine.

Especially since you open with 4 garrotes, you usually get enough energy from those for 18s

And if the mobs live for more than 18s, then you should be applying full ruptures.

But all of this comes with practice.

[scenic meteor]

Ok and when SnD is running out keep it up with envenoms

[limber lion]

You don't actually look at seconds/numbers, you kind of know what's worth and what's not worth using.

[scenic meteor]

On main target

[limber lion]

Yes. And you can also save some combo points from a previous pack to use SnD before opening on a new pack to maintain it.

[scenic meteor]

Oh true

[royal fjord]

quick question: its not worth getting zoldyck rank 4 for M+ since the new sbs leggy will be better? I have 6k soul ashe but idk if i should craft it now

[limber lion]

Doesn't really matter which target you Envenom, as long as you keep it up.

The buff will buff your FoK casts as well after.

[limber lion]

I would save the soul ash personally. 190 Zoldyck is completely fine for m+.

The difference between a 190 and 235 Zoldyck will not make or break a key.

[royal fjord]

ight thx

[scenic meteor]

Do you think I should not upgrade my 190 zoldyck incase other Leggos overtake it

[limber lion]

I would hold off on upgrading Zoldyck personally.

[scenic meteor]

I have a 225 doom blade and 190 zoldyck

[hollow dirge]

True, but we don’t even have a date for 9.1

[limber lion]

I'm not the biggest fan of Torghast, so the less time I need to spend there, the better.

[scenic meteor]

But I’m ventjyr, think I should make the change do necro before 9.1?

[limber lion]

But if you enjoy doing it every week and plan to do it often during 9.1 as well, then it's fine.

[limber lion]

Necro is definitely the more versatile choice. Venthyr is still looking to be the king of ST in 9.1

[scenic meteor]

Might stay ventjyr, I do more raiding than m+ probably

[limber lion]

I do too, but I'm Necrolord.

Necrolord beats Venthyr whenever you introduce any amount of adds or extra targets.

[scenic meteor]

Lol I might as well level necro renown before 9.1 right

[limber lion]

Venthyr only beats Necrolord in single target.

[royal fjord]

is there anything wrong with crafting max rank doomblade for raiding in 9.1? like theres nothing right now which is competetive right?

[limber lion]

Yeah, well it only takes a day or two, so it's not that bad.

[scenic meteor]

I have night far at 40 and venthur at 40

[limber lion]

Currently not. I think that's fine.

"Minmaxing" dps for raids is more important than minmaxing dps for m+.

[scenic meteor]

Really? How do you get that much renown

[limber lion]

M+ introduces a lot more variables and elements out of your control, so minmaxing in that environment is not really necessary.

[limber lion]

You clear the raid on all difficulties, then you do the world boss, then you finish the covenant campaign and top it off with the 2 weekly quests.

All difficulties, meaning LFR, Normal and Heroic.

Just doing the raids will get you to around 20-25+ renown.

Depending on your luck

[scenic meteor]

How would I do heroic? My guild stopped raiding D:

[limber lion]

I mean, you don't have to. LFR/Normal already give most of the renown

[scenic meteor]

Can you pug heroic? Lol

[limber lion]

It gets slower and more rarer the further you go.

Yes you can.

[royal fjord]

doomblade on shoulder or hands? In guide it says shoulders but many are using them on hands

[limber lion]

When I swapped to Venthyr, I only did LFR/Normal myself because I was locked for Heroic/Mythic

And I still got to 31 in 2 days.

Just needs a few dungeons done instead

[scenic meteor]

I’m using on hands

[odd hazel]

Hands prefered but can do either.

[limber lion]

Which guide?

That's definitely false information

Both of the items give the same amount of stats, but gloves are preferred because we can get 233 shoulders from Mythic SLG.

There is no reason whatsoever to recommend crafting shoulders.

[royal fjord]

on wowhead it says "crafting preference: shoulders"

[odd hazel]

prob due to it being easier

[limber lion]

That's false then, that needs fixing.

[odd hazel]

since not all would get the SLG mythic shoulders

¯_(ツ)_/¯

only good excuse i can give it

[limber lion]

Why is it easier?

They give the same amount of stats

It literally does not matter at that point

[odd hazel]

easier isnt the word---- more accessible?

[limber lion]

Still wrong

They give the same amount of stats

It literally does not matter

That's why the recommendation is gloves

[odd hazel]

i meant itemization wise.

[tulip nacelle]

if you exclude the slg shoulders they're equal so

[odd hazel]

i havent even seen SLG shoulders

[limber lion]

That's fine

You can craft on shoulders/gloves then

It doesn't matter

[odd hazel]

yes.

[limber lion]

But the recommendation should not be shoulders.

It's either "Shoulders or gloves, doesn't matter" or "Gloves"

It's never "Shoulders."

[obtuse island]

You muti instead of ambush when using MA because of the combo points right? or is there another reason behind it?

[limber lion]

!mut

[prisma monolith]

Ambush is currently only used from blindside/sepsis proc, not from stealth.
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3).
Some other factors to consider are increased poison applications, blindside, and doomblade. This is true for all talent combinations and legendaries.

[soft shale]

combopoints and also if using doomblade the bleed

[obtuse island]

gotcha, thanks!

[limber lion]

[hollow dirge]

Coding101

[obtuse island]

stepping in on Sire mythic tonight so trying to figure a few things out 😄

[limber lion]

Good luck! It's a fun fight.

[obtuse island]

Thanks! i'm sure i'll enjoy it, just like to get a good grasp of things before i jump in

[tribal marlin]

Ultimately you'll have to recraft it anyway to put it on something that neither glove neither shoulder. In case they listen and add a 3rd option to this leg

[odd hazel]

as long as we think nice things it'll be fine

blizz wouldnt force us away from doom

[tribal marlin]

some other leggo suffer the same issue

[odd hazel]

yeah

[tribal marlin]

Akaari's for example

[odd hazel]

i mean, dashing is cool because its atleast different

[tribal marlin]

even it's less relevant,

[odd hazel]

i mean, you can thank obedience for that

[south hollow]

As necrolord, do you use SBS as you would use flag in the ST opener? (after using vendetta)

[limber lion]

No, you open with SBS as your very first gcd then you dump all of it during Gemstone procs.

[south hollow]

so sbs into SnD?

[limber lion]

The priority list is as follows:

• Apply SBS to targets that don't have it yet, or;
• Use SBS during Gemstone proc windows, or;
• Use SBS to avoid overcapping.

Yes.

Sbs - snd - muti - gar - rup

[south hollow]

and also, do you use rupture before or after vendetta

[limber lion]

Doesn't matter much, but generally after.

I mean

[south hollow]

when i played back in legion you would use it before but i found a video in which the guy said to use it after

[limber lion]

Rupture first, then Vend

Don't ever listen to youtube video guides, they are full of wrong information.

But it honestly does not matter much.

Vendetta after Rupture is the way the sim does it.

[sonic schooner]

Rupt > vendetta > shiv > vanish > mut > env

[south hollow]

thank you

[scenic meteor]

Oh I thought you vanish envenomed 😲

[south hollow]

^

[limber lion]

Yeah, that's incorrect.

Again, it doesn't honestly matter whether you vanish muti or vanish env

Especially when playing DS, because you always only get 1 Envenom

Important thing is to have Vendetta/Vanish cooldowns alligned so you have all 3 (including Shiv) up when you Vanish the next time

If you delay Vanish, you run the risk of not having it be ready for when the next Vendetta/Shiv are used.

[sonic schooner]

Idk I watched lot of logs for my sire prog and I saw peeps usually going van mut env when I was doing mut van env for weeks

😔

[lost horizon]

Like buddy said, with DS either way doesn't matter

Mut first is slightly preferable

But it's not crazy important

[limber lion]

Like let me tell you that if you do vanish env instead of vanish muti, it will not make you suddenly do 100 dps more

If you do 6.3k on a boss, you'll still do 6.3k

Swapping one gcd around will not do much

[sonic schooner]

Except with nightstalker right? No real reason to play this talent but if u ever do its van > env right?

Stoopid question but just to be sure

[limber lion]

No, with Nightstalker you want to do vanish - Rupture

[sonic schooner]

Does the whole rupture dmg get increased?

That sounds pog

[limber lion]

Yep

It's still not great though lol.

[lost horizon]

NS is one of the few that snapshot

[limber lion]

Unfortunately so

[lost horizon]

Eh I don't think it's necessarily unfortunate, sometimes snapshotting is cool

There was a point where you'd vanish rup for a fatty exsang, and I thought that was neat

[scenic meteor]

So how does necro ability affect rotations? I'm just changing to necro now before 9.1

[limber lion]

Not much.

Here's what I said about it earlier:
#assassination message

[limber lion]

You understood me wrong, I enjoy snapshotting as well, that's why it's unfortunate that only so few things do snapshot

[viral meadow]

evasion have any interactions on sire?

[limber lion]

No.

[lost horizon]

Gotchya

Would certainly spice up the doodoo that is sin ST gameplay

[soft shale]

you can snapshot a bleed with NS but it is not worth

[limber lion]

Yes, like we've been saying all this time

Hacha pls

[viral meadow]

Haven't been here in a while, you taking over for whispyr cev?

Or you just being the good man you've always been

[soft shale]

cev has always been a blaster

[limber lion]

Hah, no. I'm just an EU frog and @balmy condor is an NA frog

[viral meadow]

lmao bunch of frogs

whos my OCE frog?

[scenic meteor]

EU EU EU

[teal bloom]

I am proud to be Finnish because we have Cev

[odd hazel]

Maryland or get out

[limber lion]

[south hollow]

wait finland is a real?

[soft shale]

yea its the land of the end

[viral meadow]

how important is CT > Envenom on ST

application on sire mainly

[limber lion]

You use CT outside of Shiv windows.

Just maintain the bleed.

[tribal marlin]

Marginal differences, but it's more downtime dps so

[scenic meteor]

Ok so

Stealth, sbs, SnD, mutilate, garrotte, rupture? For single target start?

[soft shale]

ya