assassination

[quaint carbon]

im not really into em but seing so high numbers go me questionning it

so thanks yalkl for infos

[tropic ocean]

👍

[quaint carbon]

87 also says 2 weeks but its as +4k parses and other link only 154.. maybe there its a server log or something

[dawn ivy]

yeah id be surprised if there werent 154 sludge logs uploaded every day

let alone 2 week

[indigo escarp]

This makes you question the meaning of life!

[tropic ocean]

y especially in heroic

maybe some issue on wcl end

[limber lion]

You should not look at damage done for your parses. You should look at rankings at the top.

Damage done is not accurate.

But yeah, that log is corrupted.

The entire log is corrupted, not just the Sludgefist kill

[quaint carbon]

aight i see, when i got to the character page it's not corrupted i can check there 👍🏼

[limber lion]

Someone else logged as well, and these logs are actually functional and not corrupted:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/JbfBYaCHX2T6WZpA#fight=1&type=damage-done

[quaint carbon]

thats the one showing on character page! thats why then

pog

[neat pulsar]

is there a haste threshold to get 4 gcd during master assassin talent ?

i feel like i can almost get the 4th

[warm parcel]

no cause haste doesnt affect rogues globals

[neat pulsar]

really ? didn't know this 😮

[tulip nacelle]

yes energy classes don't have hasted gcds

[warm parcel]

both feral and rogue are baseline 1s instead of hasted 1.5

[tulip nacelle]

and monk

[warm parcel]

o right

[neat pulsar]

so no way to get 4 gcd during MA 😭

[tulip nacelle]

our only way of lowering gcd is ar but other than the horrible new nf legendary it's only outlaw territory

[drowsy coral]

Is there a way to sim Memory of the Past Sins depending on how many ppl in your group use it ?

[dawn ivy]

wouldnt bother

that part of the effect is damn near useless

[drowsy coral]

Oh is it ? Am I baiting myself from using it even when other ppl don't use it ?

[tulip nacelle]

depends on your choices

[drowsy coral]

On sludge at least (obviously) it seemed like the secondary effect made a lot of differences, haven't pay attention for other bosses

[dawn ivy]

oh no its a good trinket

the damage is fine

its just not worth communicating "okay guys use sins trinket now!"

[drowsy coral]

Oh really, I thought it was one of the main incentive for this trinket lol

[dawn ivy]

just use it

[limber lion]

Yeah, it's a decent trinket even without taking into account the raid stacking nature of it.

It's one of the better trinkets for Sludge along with DFV.

[dawn ivy]

in the best scenario youre getting a tick or two dealing 20+% dmg

[drowsy coral]

Hmm okay I see, I was trying to compare it to my 220 shadowgrasp totem but both seems to sim weirdly

[limber lion]

Shadowgrasp is also great.

[tulip nacelle]

I would like to see the damage with a full raid of sins

[dawn ivy]

still wouldnt be anything amazin

it maxes out at 25%

[sacred isle]

You can get a wa tracking debuffs on target so you know when to use it. But more likely to cost you a cast than substantially increase your dmg.

[limber lion]

It's easier to just use it on cooldown instead of trying to plan for its usage.

For very minimal gain

[tulip nacelle]

yeah but it would be a lot of ticks at +25

just wondering

[drowsy coral]

Is shadowgrasp affected only by base haste or does the tickrate go crazy under lust/PIs ?

[dawn ivy]

i think its all haste

[tulip nacelle]

all haste

[drowsy coral]

Okay interesting, thank you

Also why is it not more used on fights where you can get cooldown reduction through padding (i.e. council/slg) if it's that good ?

Just something to do with popularity ?

[tulip nacelle]

a lot of ppl probably passed on a 226 in their vault before we found out that it's actually good (hasted)

so ppl just don't have it

also popularity

[warm parcel]

also lazyness

easier to just have vessel with fire n forget

or phial

[drowsy coral]

Makes sense, thank you !

[limber lion]

You'd be surprised by how many people just stick to one build for farm/clears for every single boss

[mossy mulch]

Assasination rogues for m+ and raid are using ventyr? or necrolord?

In 9.1 ptr

[limber lion]

Necrolord for M+, it's still a bit open which one is better for the raid.

But Necrolord is definitely a safe bet if you're planning to do both.

[mossy mulch]

but assasination with more haste in 9.1 and ventyr should be better in pure ST in raid i guess..

[limber lion]

Yeah but because of dimishing returns, the more haste we get, the less value Venthyr's toolkit gives us.

Haste is still really good for Necrolords, but Venthyr generally want more crit.

[untold nest]

Also pure ST does not mean BiS for raiding

[neat pulsar]

necro use cleave to get a better ST than venthyr right ?

[limber lion]

Yes

Necro has better funnel damage.

[neat pulsar]

funnel ?

[limber lion]

Funnel is the same as prio damage.

[neat pulsar]

ok

[limber lion]

So pretty much 2+ targets, but you mainly blast one target.

[north basin]

we didnt receive any major changes on ptr? was lil bit away from wow things lately

[dawn ivy]

biggest changes would be the sylvanas execute dagger and bone spike critting

[limber lion]

Yeah, nothing really groundbreaking and major.

[dawn ivy]

smoke bomb next week for sure

[limber lion]

Hopefully not 🤞

[terse talon]

So im now up in good renown with necro and working on my openers on dummies... I read earlier here that as necro assa you save the SBS for the gem-window. However, the first window comes within the opener with vendetta vanish etc. Also when checking the high end rogues I get the impression the SBS is mainly to help out getting the envenoms in the shiv windows and not the gem window at all.
Anyone got input?

[limber lion]

That is incorrect. You want to only use SBS procs during gemstone windows.

Meaning that in the beginning you open with SBS, then you use the other 2 charges during the gemstone window in the beginning

You then stock up the charges to use them when the next gemstone window happens.

The priority list for SBS is as follows:

• Apply SBS to targets that don't have it yet, or;
• Use SBS during Gemstone procs, or;
• Use SBS to avoid capping charges

[terse talon]

Ok! fair enough! thank you

[thin imp]

if you don't know the length of the fight and you don't know if you will benefit for more casts of flagellations, do you wait to align it with vendetta or just at cd?

[limber lion]

Just use it on CD.

You can try to allign the last cast if you're sure that you won't miss a cast

Boss has 30% hp, Vendetta is off cd and Flag coming in 15s, should probably hold Vendetta for 15s

[thin imp]

I see, yea obviously there are circumstances, either I won't cast it on cd if I will have to do a mechanic or something, but okay got it, as a general thing to use it on cd

thanks!

[limber lion]

Yeah pretty much.

My pleasure mate.

[gusty mirage]

huge fan

[limber lion]

[sonic schooner]

[dawn ivy]

ngl i was kinda happy to go necro because i couldnt be asked to use flag on cd

felt wrong even though i knew it was right and just kept holding for vendetta lmfao

[jade raven]

Guys when is the best moment to use cloak exactly in p3 sire in the overlap, after shattering pain hits or before

[vale marten]

before blood price

that hits the hardest

or you could cloak and go into ravage if you are dodging massacre

[jade raven]

Does cloak negate the first hit of ravage?

[vale marten]

no the initial hit of ravage goes through cloak

id say use cloak on first blood price in p3 and youll have it again for something later in the phasr

[jade raven]

Cloak doesn't negate massacre either?

[vale marten]

no

[jade raven]

Evasion helps neither I guess?

[vale marten]

nope, shadowstepping a dk or warrior is your best bet

cuz they dont get knocked

[jade raven]

Thanks a lot

[tulip nacelle]

you should cloak 1st and 3rd blood price in p3

then do the step play on overlap

make your peace with procing cheat there

[warm parcel]

I just literally wont even bother with anything fancy

slam > cd procs > step back to boss > keep going as normal

[tulip nacelle]

yea I guess you can just use cheat and not care

[limber lion]

Yeh, as long as you don't get hit by a massacre when you tunnel the boss with cooldowns cough

[tulip nacelle]

I have to say sin is kinda fun in keys

[limber lion]

Definitely didn't happen to me 2 days ago cough

[limber lion]

It is really fun!

[tulip nacelle]

but it goes from super hectic in packs to super boring on bosses

[limber lion]

I do enjoy it quite a bit but SBS is definitely playing a huge role in it for me

[tulip nacelle]

yeah

I'm not super used to playing sin so 4xgar ct and stuff is really enjoyable

[untold nest]

But outlaw prob more aoe (or i still fck up in aoe) and easier to do that dmg

[limber lion]

Definitely is.

Just not my cup of tea personally.

[tulip nacelle]

Outlaw is bae, I just wanna try sin out

At least I get some use of my Zoldyck

for "Sire prog"

[limber lion]

Yeh it's good to broaden your horizons

[untold nest]

I think next patch ill give it a shot gor keys with necro leggo

[gusty mirage]

Next patch necro outlaw reigns head and shoulders over the rest of the rogue specs in m+ enjoy it now when it’s still close to outlaw

[shy dust]

Necro outlaw gets nerfed due to being broken

And the rise of sub in keys begins

[teal bloom]

Is the necrolord legendary worth using for assa in M+? It gives pretty much 0 dps vs bosses

[limber lion]

Yes. Looking to be better than Zoldyck.

Depends on what you want to do as well right

If you're on Torghast-mob-duty and boss-duty, then it's probably not the best legendary for your group

But if you wanna pad the meters, then it probably is.

[north basin]

sylvanas dager and zoldyck will make us godly executioneers?XD

[limber lion]

Maybe. Time will tell.

Still waiting for the numbers.

[north basin]

they must throw us a bone. after 9.0 humilation

[dull cloak]

i hope the daggers wont be like poxstorm lol

[limber lion]

[north basin]

so we chase 2 daggers in both hands and hopefully it will be around 4-5% total damage

[dull cloak]

or maybe it be like raden fists lol one can only hope

[stiff geyser]

I feel like my single target rotation is always off. I always feel like I either don’t have enough energy pooled to use shiv on CD or I’m going to run out of bleeds during my shiv window. Is this typical?

[limber lion]

What do you mean you don't have energy pooled for Shiv?

You just follow the normal pooling suggestions in the pins and it'll be fine for all shiv windows.

Applying bleeds during Shiv is completely fine. You just reapply as you would during pandemic windows

[low wedge]

Was it figured out how the non bugged version of obedience works?

[limber lion]

Afaik it's still bugged, so not sure yet.

[royal lantern]

the rule of thumb is: evasion works on nothing in PvE

cus it litearlly has 1 or 2 uses in an entire expansion max lol

[tulip nacelle]

evasion helps with some dungeon stuff, but it's safe to say it doesn't work in raid unless you're heroicly killing the boss as the last man standing

[compact pumice]

Hey, don’t knock that shit. Happened before, also quite a few close calls.

But not many mechanics are evasionable

[limber lion]

Evasion is a dead ability in raids.

[soft shale]

yea if we had taunt that would be other thing

but evasion itself is meh

[odd heath]

My guild's first M raden kill on prog had a mage on block and me with evasion and cloak alive at the end lol

[stoic needle]

Evasion works on tarragrue chain soaks

[turbid harbor]

i remember watching nelbur's first KJ kill in tomb where he evasion tanked the boss as the last alive and managed to finish him

[strange python]

how much of a gain is zoldyck over doomblade in m+?

[hoary isle]

depends on the dungeon imo .. think doomblade is better in TOP for sure

[stoic needle]

It's viable, but not strictly better in top

[hoary isle]

prolly depends on affixes too

[stoic needle]

Yeah

In general I do 300-400 more dps overall with zoldyck in keys over doomblade

[hoary isle]

sure , but you prolly do more dmg "where it matters" more with doomblade .. eg: pride , minibosses .. shard of halkias , red dudes in DOS. and bosses ofc

[stoic needle]

I disagree actually

You already do more than enough damage to priority targets regardless as sin

You just int your overall for an unnecessary prio damage boost

I'm always top damage on all of those things without doomblade

[hoary isle]

maybe ur right .. i just pref. doomblade in some dungeons then . Playing doomblade without haste feels omegabad for me tho

[stoic needle]

If I was gonna pick a legendary for prio it would probably be dashing instead of doomblade

Because it actually has some aoe value

[regal cape]

Evading Argus scythes was very pog

[hoary isle]

fuck that thing sucks .. i tried it

[royal lantern]

like i said: 1 or 2 uses

[rustic turtle]

hey all is anyone gonna be making any significant changes based on ptr for sanctum prog? looking to main my rogue now that assa is looking nice in both pvp and pve

[stiff geyser]

So after applying rupture, garrote, and CT I would pool to (max energy - 30) then go into shiv window?

Is it more important to maintain main bleeds or get off envenoms in shiv window?

[cerulean nest]

maintaining bleeds

but they should be refreshed beforehand with the knowledge that shiv is coming up

[stiff geyser]

I feel like at that point I’ve exhausted all my energy refreshing bleeds and CT needs to be refreshed as well

[hollow river]

If they’re not in pandemic and shiv is coming up I don’t think it matters if you refresh during shiv if you have to

[stiff geyser]

Always feel like I can’t beat the CT timer and it delays my shiv casts

[hollow river]

In ST?

Or

[stiff geyser]

M+ on bosses

[hollow river]

I think you can just leave CT out of rotation until you get boss to execute range HP

Since it’s only like a 15 dps loss to leave out CT in ST but if running zoldycks you’d want CT on boss in execute range

[stiff geyser]

Gotcha

I’ll try that

[frank venture]

quick question, trying out assassin, whats bis cov for m+?

[hollow river]

Necro

[frank venture]

ty

[hollow river]

Np it’s also barely behind venthyr in raid, 100 dps less in pure ST give or take

[stiff geyser]

There was somebody here that tried to convince me to swap and I think I’m gonna

SBS seems more fun than flag

[hollow river]

To necro? It’s nice

I definitely prefer it

As venthyr you lose like 400? Dps in aoe

Necro pulls ahead as soon as 2 or more targets

[stoic needle]

You're envenoming too much. Don't envenom unless you're at max energy -30 outside of shiv and you will always have enough energy for shiv windows and to refresh all bleeds

[stiff geyser]

This helps a lot

[stiff geyser]

Do you just chunk out spikes on CD?

[hollow river]

No

[sinful cradle]

during gemstone windows

[hollow river]

^

[stiff geyser]

Gemstone 😳?

[stoic needle]

In aoe you do use them asap

[stiff geyser]

Is that a conduit or something

[gritty flame]

sim your self

[stoic needle]

Last soulbind of heirmir

[stiff geyser]

Oh Christ

[gritty flame]

kek )) i just saw old message

[hollow river]

Osh is the mane to listen to for sure

In m+ you use your aubterfuge garrotes, CT(or SnD if it’s not up) and then you dump 2 SBS on 2 targets, rupt, send 3rd SBS on a 3rd target. Then it’s regular rotation

[stoic needle]

Yep

[hollow river]

But on ST bosses you use 1 on pull, SnD if it isn’t up, then you only use during gemstone windows

[stiff geyser]

Isn’t the leggo for necro supposed to be omega good too?

[hollow river]

If you mess up and cap your 3rd charge, you use 1 I think but if doing everything correctly you should only use inside gemstone

For m+ it’s looking that way.

On the leggo.

5 charges and they cleave. Gonna be stonks

[stiff geyser]

That’s lit

Wish I didn’t waste my free swap on venth lol

[hollow river]

Waste your free swap?

Wut

[stoic needle]

It's free for all of them the first time

[hollow river]

It’s the same thing

Oh?

[stiff geyser]

Oh really?

[stoic needle]

Free as in no questline

[stiff geyser]

Wow that’s nice to know

[hollow river]

Ohh you mean the quest line for switching BACK

[stiff geyser]

I swapped from fae to venth

[stoic needle]

The first time you swap to any covenants you swap instantly

[stiff geyser]

After I went sub to outlaw

Now I’ll go necro 😈

[hollow river]

Necro is better for outlaw as well. M+ wise

[stiff geyser]

My guild only does heroic raiding so not too worried about min maxing ST

Shit I’m stoked

[hollow river]

Sin in raid feels great rn

It’s a bit slower playstyle than in m+

But ez gigadps

[stiff geyser]

Yeah I mained monk in nathria so sin will be a nice relief

Also sylvanas daggers 😳😳

[hollow river]

I’m thinking of trying a monk myself for m+ next tier

[stiff geyser]

Monk is fun. You’re always pressing different buttons. It feels like if they took DH and made you press 3 buttons for every 1 DH press

[hollow river]

DH is giga in m+ now too

[stiff geyser]

Yeah I love DH

Momentum essence break is poggers rn

So much better than demonic

[hollow river]

With this game started with the end game so I could try everything lol

Wish

[stiff geyser]

Yeah same. But the dungeon leveling thing is basically that

[hollow river]

Can’t stand it lol

Plus I have to start every toon at lvl 1

[stiff geyser]

Oh yeah

True

Rip

[hollow river]

Boost is too expensive lol

[frank venture]

how many targets where its viable to be using fan of knives over just applying bleeds

[hollow river]

Never

You can FoK instead of mutilate

[stoic needle]

We don't have echoing blades anymore

[hollow river]

That’s it

You used to be able to spam ONLY FOK?

[stoic needle]

Yeah lmao

[hollow river]

WHAT IN THE ACTUAL

[stoic needle]

https://youtu.be/e2XjmTEJT-A

[hollow river]

Brain dead gameplay

[stoic needle]

This was eb prenerf

[vestal wren]

eb was rly strong ye

[stoic needle]

After that they nerfed it by 75% and it was still bis

[limber swallow]

also, we weren't target capped back then

[hollow river]

Jesus man that is insane

Lmaoo

[stoic needle]

I think the concept is sick though and I wish they'd bring it back

[hollow river]

Someone needs to create a target cap removal petition

[stoic needle]

Poisoned Katar is a slap in the face by comparison

[gusty mirage]

Not really, shrouded was bis after the EB nerf

[stoic needle]

Ok bis is probably the wrong word

It was still good tho

[gusty mirage]

[thorny pond]

Did sim profile change a bit and I haven't noticed till now?

I'm short like 200dps

[vestal wren]

eb could make the aoe rotation quite... binary

[tulip nacelle]

wft nerf

well

[thorny pond]

yea since then

[vestal wren]

wft change are in the simc for over a week now iirc

[thorny pond]

Hmmm. Interesting

[stoic needle]

That is a fair criticism. But the basic concept is still cool to me imo, it could get a change to work on ruptured or garotted targets or something

[vestal wren]

you did drop even finisher from your rotation

but yes, doing more damage in aoe is a good concept

😛

[thorny pond]

aoe is bigger numbers than single target and my lizard brain knows bigger numbers are better

[vestal wren]

its sad that it was changed to be assassination only from initially being labeled as subtlety power

would made subtlety probably way more competitive in bfa

the question for adding EB is if assassination is lacking in aoe

a lot of people argue that assassination as as good as outlaw in m+, so if thats the case i don't think it needs additional buffs to its aoe

[frail fossil]

yes i dont think assa needs any buff, and specially not aoe ones

it's 2T cleave is insane, it's ST is insane, and multi dotting damage is very good

[limber swallow]

it's just a lot more work than outlaw's for close to, but not as much reward. Not suggesting they nerf outlaw's AOE, but I do wonder if there's a way to make assassination AOE feel less like playing an affliction lock with bleeds.

[frail fossil]

Ryfie compete with top outlaw runs

[frail fossil]

dont play a dot based class ?

like are u complaining the dot spec, does damage with dots ?

[stoic needle]

Well affliction has malefic rapture which makes the aoe rotation more than just tab dotting

Sin could use something similar to make the gameplay more than just tab dotting

[frail fossil]

affli dots are weaker than sin

[harsh anchor]

Give us vein ripper from torghast

[chrome plume]

I miss the extra CP from SS much more than the EB big dam

[frail fossil]

like i genuinely cannot fathom how u look at assa rn and say "yes it needs more aoe"

when CT is this good

[stoic needle]

I didn't say that, I just want something that makes the rotation more interactive

[frail fossil]

when it's 2t cleave is this good

when u have necro

i dont think assa's aoe is much harder than outlaw either, it's just a different playstyle, assa aoe works fine, it's tuned well, and add in the fact it has one of the best ST and 2t cleave in the game, i dont think it deserves anything else

[vestal wren]

i mean

[stoic needle]

It's a lot harder than just pressing blade flurry and doing your st rotation

[vestal wren]

the big problem is you would overload bleeds even more

[shy dust]

Assa does have some ramp up time

To start doing meaningful aoe

[frail fossil]

u have other rogue specs that has different aoe style, u can play those if u dont like assa aoe, i dont think assa needs something more, it's aoe is functional, and it's purpose what never aoe dmg

[narrow girder]

as assassination mains.. do you ever swap to outlaw for cleave fights as you go through a raid? or is that too much min max

[shy dust]

While outlae just activates blade flurry

[shy dust]

Depends on the fight. A cleave fight doesn’t mean outlaw is better

[frail fossil]

and assa aoe damage is pretty good for a spec that has a ST this strong

[narrow girder]

i'm running a ST raid spec on assassination, and then i get to stone general for example and i feel like i fall behind

[frail fossil]

only SLG really, and u can even play slg as assa at this point

[harsh anchor]

I swap if prog requires it (or makes it easier). Hive mind in Nya I swapped

[shy dust]

He said assa mains brothers

[stiff geyser]

An ability like searing nightmare to spread dots would be nice

[shy dust]

Don’t lie to yourself

[frail fossil]

did i say anything wrong tho ?

[shy dust]

Yah ain’t no assa main

[frail fossil]

searing nightmare is awful

[stiff geyser]

😦

[frail fossil]

it's like the worst sp gameplay

[stiff geyser]

So manually spreading all those Dots would be better?

[frail fossil]

was much mroe fun when u're shadowy apparition were cracked and u had to dots everything up and do a big st burst that converted into shadowy apparitions in prepatch

that was fucking fire

SP with searing nightmare is like, mind lash and searing nightmare spam

unfun and uninteresting

[stiff geyser]

Yeah apprations are cooler for sure

[frail fossil]

i think searing nightmare should be deleted and i specially dont want something this brainless and unfun on assa

[shy dust]

Only thing that feels shit

About assassination

[frail fossil]

is fan of knives

[shy dust]

Is fok cp generation

[stiff geyser]

Yes

[frail fossil]

yeah that sucks

[limber swallow]

@frail fossil I agree with you that our damage profile is very good in AOE, 2T cleave and ST. I'm not asking for more damage. But is FOK => Rup => Tab => FOK => Rup => Tab really that engaging?

[frail fossil]

rest is good

[shy dust]

Everything besides that fits well

[stiff geyser]

What if it was a channel?

[shy dust]

Not many specs have engaging aoe rotation

WW is Sck>highest priority filler> SCK

[frail fossil]

it's fine for a spec which purpose is not aoe yes

[stiff geyser]

Elemental shaman would like to talk to you

[frail fossil]

hardcasting flamestrike calling

[shy dust]

WW and MM also want to talk to you thwn

[stoic needle]

I don't think you can even say that specs have purposes anymore judging by the way blizzard balances

They want everything to be good at everything

[limber swallow]

except utility 😉

[shy dust]

[narrow girder]

lets give everyone BL

[stoic needle]

Like look at what they did to sub

[shy dust]

I mean

[stoic needle]

It was a 'burst spec'

[shy dust]

It’s just not true at everything

[stiff geyser]

Subtlety makes me wanna puke

[stoic needle]

Now they gave it sustained aoe

[frail fossil]

sub and assa are good at different things

lol

[shy dust]

Even the m+ meta definining spec fire

Isn’t good at everything

Fire can’t do spread aoe

Whatsoever

[frail fossil]

wow they gave the bad spec a half decent aoe dmg craaaazy

[frail fossil]

fire cannot do prio aoe damage anymore too like it did in bfa

[shy dust]

It can

You can still combust for prio and ignite will do a bit of dps

[frail fossil]

by not casting flamestrike

[stoic needle]

It's not that they gave it aoe damage it's that it's sustained not burst

[stiff geyser]

Phoenix fire

[shy dust]

But not like the monster Thatwas bfa mage yeah

[frail fossil]

anyway they should not give more aoe to assa except like FOK fix or smth

cuz FOK is kinda shit

[stoic needle]

They blur the lines between the specs niches more and more

But if they change fok to be like shuriken storm then why does sub exist at all

[lean coral]

pvp

[shy dust]

How dare you

I’d mute you if I was a CF

[cobalt pelican]

maybe they should stop copying assassination spells to sub and making it asssaination lite then smh

[frail fossil]

yeah i mean FoK kinda feels bad, but does it really need to be like sub shuriken storm

i dont think so

[shy dust]

Tbf assa is the spec that’s lost

It’s icon is a spell it can’t cast at max level

[frail fossil]

delete assa

[stoic needle]

So give sin evis

Got it

[frail fossil]

they changed assa icon tho

just wcl didn't change it

[shy dust]

Not on wcl

[narrow girder]

didn't they already delete assassination when we lost CttC?

[cobalt pelican]

fok will just fix itself as time goes on probably

[shy dust]

Which is all that matters

[cobalt pelican]

having cp gen tied to crit is always awkward

[shy dust]

Since I define my self worth by parses

[frail fossil]

true

[stoic needle]

We have cttc again

[narrow girder]

altho we got it back thankfully

[cobalt pelican]

maybe this expac it'll be a little fucky with how stats work out

[narrow girder]

i came back from wotlk assassination, and i was like why does assassination feel so awful in 9.0.2

then we got CttC back, and i was like oh thats why

[stoic needle]

I mean it wasn't really cttc

[balmy condor]

day 5205 of saying fok 2cp baseline

[stoic needle]

It was the 20% of aura buffs that they had to do

[cobalt pelican]

i actually played some sin keys for venthyr renown today since i was bored and finally crafted zoldyck but it feels very.. uninteresting

[frail fossil]

i think the 25% dmg buff they got is more important that cttc

and also legendary buffs

and also new bis covenants

[narrow girder]

hmm, i felt like CttC was the "feel good" part tho

[frail fossil]

u know i think those played a bigger part

[stoic needle]

Having one extra maintenance spell doesn't make that big of a difference

[narrow girder]

maintaining S&D is such a chore and unfun

[frail fossil]

maybe, but for it's dmg, clearly the omega aura buffs they got is more important

[stoic needle]

[frail fossil]

snd is shit and no one wants it, but assa can now forget it exists

[shy dust]

It made a big dps difference

[stoic needle]

Wow pressing a button once every 40 seconds is such an unfun chore

[shy dust]

And it was a controversial addition

You can’t just try to act like it wasn’t controversial

[frail fossil]

i mean SND for assa did feel like shit

[shy dust]

I agree

[frail fossil]

and cttc is great

[shy dust]

It’s a slower paced spec with slower cp generation

[frail fossil]

cuz u had so much shit to keep up

[stoic needle]

People are just trying to find things to whine about

[frail fossil]

was really annoying

and unfun

bro u will NOT tell me SnD before cttc was fine loool

[shy dust]

Agree to disagree then

[stoic needle]

Yes it was

[balmy condor]

it was fine

[frail fossil]

[narrow girder]

fine, but less fun

it was a nice QoL to get CttC back

[cobalt pelican]

how is it annoying even

[shy dust]

Even the assa CF

[cobalt pelican]

you press it like twice a minute max

[shy dust]

It feels awful

[stoic needle]

If they changed the tooltip of Snd to say "do 15% more damage" or smth like that people wouldn't say a word

It's just because they don't see attack speed as impactful

[shy dust]

Is it not hard to understand people cna not like some gameplay things

[stoic needle]

But it's literally the same as rupture and garotte

It just doesn't bleed

It increases your damage

[balmy condor]

I understand that people thought it felt like shit

[stoic needle]

And takes cp

[frail fossil]

i'm sorry i dont like to maintain 4 buffs bro, one being a boring passive attack speed dmg

[balmy condor]

I just don't think so

[shy dust]

And yet it felt worse to me

So

[cobalt pelican]

i bet rae eats his bread no crusts

[frail fossil]

me and rae agreeing something is wrong today

[shy dust]

These people dissing Cttc

When Whispyr thought it was only worth 50 dps

Stay woke.

Flower

[balmy condor]

the number gets lower

[frail fossil]

assa CF lying to it's people

[stoic needle]

Cttc itself was not the big dps increase it was the aura buffs and the legendary increases

[frail fossil]

yes we know

[stoic needle]

Doomblade literal 8% legendary

[dawn ivy]

CttC was just a QoL change if anything

[shy dust]

200 dps is a large gain

[dawn ivy]

not to say it didnt add dmg

[shy dust]

From a quality of life change

[dawn ivy]

but the ability to keep it up without wasting cp on it every 40 seconds was a godsend

[shy dust]

Felt better yes

[cobalt pelican]

question

do you guys feel something when you press envenom

[hollow river]

I wonder if this will hold true in 9.1 though.

[cobalt pelican]

like do you get direct feedback

into your soul

[shy dust]

Yes

It’s evisverate to me but green

[frail fossil]

only thing i feel when i play assa is pain

[shy dust]

I enjoy pressing eviscerate

[narrow girder]

oh man i get endorphins released when i hit envenom with shiv up

[balmy condor]

asking with osh in the chat oh no

[cobalt pelican]

maybe it's a race thing

i feel like i'd be more pro-envenom

[shy dust]

I feel alive when I see that 6k attack

[cobalt pelican]

if i was human or nelf

[dawn ivy]

my goblin brain likes to play the "keep envenom buff uptime at 100%" game

[frail fossil]

i mean 15k evisc crit, feels pretty great

[dawn ivy]

so yeah i love envenom

[limber lion]

Envenom is a shitty filler ability.

[shy dust]

Beautiful animation

[vestal wren]

na, envenom is boring

[shy dust]

Oh wow YALL got some real hot take

Generic does x damage based ability is boring

What’s next

Auto attacking is pretty dull @frail fossil

[limber lion]

I mean it's boring, but it still makes me moist doing env mfd env on pillars

[balmy condor]

I actually think envenom is kinda interesting with the buff

[dawn ivy]

see

[balmy condor]

I take it over evisc

[frail fossil]

so true

[balmy condor]

evisc is boring

[dawn ivy]

the buff is the key factor in envenom

[frail fossil]

can u actually keep a 100% uptime on envenom buff ?

[stoic needle]

[balmy condor]

evisc is only "interesting" because waow big damage

[dawn ivy]

hell no

[narrow girder]

does envenom benefit from pandemic mechanic?

[dawn ivy]

yes

[balmy condor]

closer to like 85

[limber lion]

DFA > Envenom > Eviscerate > Dispatch

[frail fossil]

hello delete this please

[shy dust]

Why even list dispatch

[dawn ivy]

DFA obviously has big theatrical bonus

[shy dust]

It’s the younger dumber brother of the 3

[limber lion]

Big true

Couldn't have said it better myself

[stoic needle]

[frail fossil]

yeah just checked my logs and was unsure ty

[stoic needle]

When you hit the divine bell and get a 20k envenom crit

[frail fossil]

osho if u talk again about ur shit ass mastery

[gusty mirage]

You say things that make me hate you

[narrow girder]

i have a real dumb question.. is snapshotting active for us assassination rogues in shadowlands?

[dawn ivy]

@stoic needle why must you be this way

[shy dust]

Not really

[limber lion]

Not really.

[shy dust]

Night stalker abilities snapshot the damage buff

[frail fossil]

no, only nightstalker talent snapshots afaik

[limber lion]

Exsang and NS snapshots, but we don't use either

[stoic needle]

[shy dust]

Exsan df snapshots your haste

[narrow girder]

so i don't need to worry about overwriting my ruptures that i had a big buff on right?

[limber lion]

God it's a warzone in here

Yes, just refresh them on pandemic.

[stoic needle]

I am this way because of your reactions

[shy dust]

Proccing overwhelming power before exssang

[dawn ivy]

exsan snapshotting SS/Overwhelming Power/Vita

[tulip nacelle]

[shy dust]

I remember peaking at

[limber lion]

Galecaller's boon

[frail fossil]

subterfuge rupture u need to refresh them at the last sec no ?

[narrow girder]

interesting, thanks i was having trouble finding the right answer to snapshotting elsewhere

[shy dust]

260k dps on Maut on pull

[limber lion]

Subterfuge doens't do anything to rupture

only garrotes

[shy dust]

What a great feeling

Beating out the mages

[limber lion]

NS Ruptures, yes.

[frail fossil]

yeah i confused the 2

[limber lion]

all gucci

[gusty mirage]

I miss Maut

[frail fossil]

so i refresh a subterfuge garrote at the last sec yeah ?

[gusty mirage]

It was always a race to who could kill themselves first

[limber lion]

Ye

[dawn ivy]

having to cloak your own exsang window

[limber lion]

Or during pandemic if you refresh it with another subt garrote

[dawn ivy]

[shy dust]

Play triple NV sub rogue on Maut reflevt phase

Unable to press eviscerate or you 1 shot yoursef

[stoic needle]

I have this add-on called classic damage instead of MSBT for my damage text, and it plays a chonky impact noise when you get a crit and makes the damage text huge and highlighted

[shy dust]

[frail fossil]

so if you talk about subterfuged garrote, refresh them at the last second, unless u pandemic them with another subterfuge garrote

[stoic needle]

Maximum feedback for the envenom crits

[frail fossil]

cloak it

[balmy condor]

Bro why is everything you say the new worst thing you’ve said

[shy dust]

[frail fossil]

i have lost all the respect i used to have for u

[stoic needle]

This is bullshit tbh

Y'all don't treat hachadino this way

[balmy condor]

Bold claim saying you had some to begin with

[stoic needle]

Man's literally has a 100% mastery set

And I get flamed for having a different damage text addon

[limber lion]

Hacha isn't in here

That's the thing

[balmy condor]

We just ignore hacha and he goes and does his fried feelcraft over in the corner

You’re just in this bitch

Literally 20 hours a day

[stoic needle]

I don't post in here as much as I used to

[frail fossil]

hacha knows most of what he does is shit or weird memes

[stoic needle]

So do I...

[balmy condor]

And yet it’s still too much

[stoic needle]

[alpine latch]

Man, trying to get a Phial is killing me. I am almost done with PF.

[frail fossil]

also hacha does it in sub channel

no one goes there anyway

[stoic needle]

Why do y'all think I don't realize this is a meme

[frail fossil]

it's not funny anymore then

[shy dust]

Was it ever

[stoic needle]

No

[frail fossil]

then why do u keep talking about mastery

[stoic needle]

Because getting big crits is fun

It's not that deep

I actually did an experiment and didn't mention mastery for the last 2 weeks unless someone else said something about it first and everyone else just perpetuates the meme

I don't even talk about it that much anymore unless someone is asking about stats for aoe or mythic plus

[balmy condor]

So I’m not the funniest guy right, but I think usually jokes require a hook, and a punchline. Like who? Hooks them in with intrigue, and then who asked? Is the “unexpected” punchline which is comedy

I just feel a definition is important info to have

For no one in particular

[balmy condor]

And I’ve noticed it, it’s gotten better for sure, and you have no idea how much I appreciate it

[limber lion]

Are we all friends now?

[dawn ivy]

hug for all

[subtle tundra]

who?

[limber lion]

Yes

[real solar]

I mean at least mastery is better than the sin sword aoe build that 1 guy was talking about

[limber lion]

That's a low bar to beat

[dawn ivy]

thats not a bar

thats a piece of broken string on the ground

[stoic needle]

Yeah I'm chill, I can handle a little flaming lol

[winter vapor]

first time doing heroic CN, is it worth switching to doomblade over 235 zold? (doom is 190), drops my i level a bit for respective pieces

[soft shale]

the saddest thing about this expansion is crit is always better in the end most of the time

[limber lion]

You should sim it.

Doomblade is generally the better choice for most fights.

[soft shale]

depends on your off pieces tbh

[winter vapor]

ty cev

[limber lion]

No worries.

[stoic needle]

A 210 Doomblade simmed better than my 235 zold fwiw

[winter vapor]

any way to actually input new legendary via gear compare? or am i being dense

[true pelican]

in gear compare you search for the base item and choose the legendary power after

[compact pumice]

You can add in gear compare too, just add it by "Umbrahide" etc

[limber swallow]

oh cool. Ignore me then. good to know 😉

misinformation deleted

[limber lion]

Top gear is just quite a bit easier.

[gusty mirage]

Can I be your friend?

[limber lion]

I would personally just stick to top gear for legendary comparisons and whatnot

[balmy condor]

Yeah I don’t see a point for gear compare tbh

I guess to use as droptimizer if you don’t have premium

[winter vapor]

ty all 🙂

[oak sky]

i usually do gear compare for my weekly vault

but idk if thats optimal or anything

[balmy condor]

Yikes

[compact pumice]

Ouf

[balmy condor]

You can just top gear that

[compact pumice]

top gear does that auto

[balmy condor]

Just Open vault and /simc with it open

Much much easier

[compact pumice]

But adding gear you don't have yet is kinda annoying in Top Gear, I don't understand how those bonus stats work really

Directly to the SimC text

[limber swallow]

are you trying to sim things that MIGHT be in your vault or choices you actually have?

[limber lion]

Like honestly the only 2 sim tools you need are top gear and droptimizer. You don't need anything else.

Would highly recommend paying $3 a month just for droptimizer

[balmy condor]

Advanced

I live my life in advanced

[limber lion]

Yeh, maybe I should have paraphrased it more towards the casual user

[limber swallow]

Yea.... and we need you to have advanced sim, but most of the rest of us don't have that kind of time...

[balmy condor]

Yeh

I could run what I need locally

[limber lion]

No

You can't become my friend, if you already are my friend

[compact pumice]

But sometimes I wanna do a top gear compare with all that comes with it but then I manually need to add in gear into the SimC string. Sometimes I'm less successful

[balmy condor]

Raidbots is Just abusing cloud computing

[balmy condor]

Why do you need to add in gear?

[compact pumice]

Like a vault piece and then I do a top gear sim. Maybe two upgrades, but one is simply a good (maybe the best) upgrade due to my item being shit there, so I wanna add a 220 version that I can farm and then compare totals and then pick according to an item I don't have but can get

Done it a few times

[stoic needle]

The only time I use gear compare is to generate the string for an item I don't have to put into top gear

I don't even run the actual sim

[compact pumice]

How do you copy the string for it?

[stoic needle]

There's an option for downloading the sim input

And you just copy it from there

[compact pumice]

Yeah I see now, right at the bottom

Usually I have been running the sim and THEN looked at the results for the copyable part

this saves me loads of time

thanks!

[stoic needle]

Yeah it's pretty dope

Np

[steep reef]

hi everyone

[limber lion]

Hello kyric.

[hidden flint]

Is there a convenient Blindside macro to use it instead of Mutilate when it procs?

[limber lion]

We do not recommend that because you don't want to use Ambush from stealth, you only want to use it during blindside procs.

But here you go:

[prisma monolith]

Ambush is currently only used from blindside/sepsis proc, not from stealth.
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3).
Some other factors to consider are increased poison applications, blindside, and doomblade. This is true for all talent combinations and legendaries.

Macroing Ambush to Mutilate only works with the use of a addon.
It comes with the downside that it often requires multiple key presss.
Suggested addon to use(Gnome Sequencer):http://tiny.cc/mxb6tz
Showcase Video: #assassination message

[narrow girder]

so i shouldn't be using ambush when my sepsis procs?

[limber lion]

No.

If Sepsis made it free to use, then you would use it.

But because it still costs energy, it's just not worth

[narrow girder]

anything i ought to worry about when sepsis does proc then? do i get subterfuge garrotes from the sepsis proc?

[limber lion]

No, you just ignore the proc

It might sounds stupid to do that, but that's how it goes.

Blame Blizzard for great design

[hidden flint]

That was gonna be my next question (3vs4 CPs) Thanks!

[narrow girder]

i'm going to be making some adjustments to my rotation... i didn't realize i was supposed to be using CT on single target until i read the sticky here..

[limber lion]

That's what the pins are for :p

[limber lion]

My pleasure

[raven gyro]

I didn't understand about pool on envenom at pin. Can someone explain to me ?

[limber lion]

You just get to max-1 combo points, then you wait for your energy to hit max-30 before using a finisher.

Let's say you play Vigor so you have 170 energy.

So you would Mutilate once and get 3 combo points, you Mutilate again and now you're at 5 combo points

You're at 55 energy, so instead of hitting Envenom immediately, you wait for your energy to get to around 130-140. Then you slam that finisher.

[raven gyro]

but why 😄

[limber lion]

Because it allows us to use energy more effectively during our cooldowns, like Shiv/Vendetta.

It also maximizes our uptime on buffs like Envenom, Elaborate Planning etc.

[raven gyro]

oh thank you

[opaque mauve]

Back when poison master was king , clipping envenoms in the final second was the fun of the spec

[plain thistle]

and pointless

pretty sure sims never showed that as a gain

[opaque mauve]

I’m talking way back lol

When sims were barely used

[plain thistle]

in legion that was also a topic around here

[opaque mauve]

Maybe ask mr robot was popping up

[limber lion]

Not sure when Envenom started to pandemic, but if it was in the game back then, then stalling using Envenom doesn't make much sense

[balmy condor]

I think the pandemic was in during legion

With all the reworks

Ask mr robot though

[limber lion]

AMR bad

[opaque mauve]

More along the lines of poison did a lot of the damage so you just keep the uptime on the buff as much possible, played rogue since vanilla so I forget what exp it was , the play style has changed loads of the years

[limber lion]

Yeah, it definitely has.

AskMrRobot probably made a small fortune back then.

[opaque mauve]

Ask mr robot is awful , but I think it was one of the first about

[limber lion]

Yep

[opaque mauve]

And max dps.com lol

[limber lion]

It's just an elaborate scam

[opaque mauve]

We got good tools these days

[limber lion]

Yeah for sure. Raidbots is an incredible tool. I use it multiple times per day, it's a godsend.

Same with WCL, but that's been around for quite a bit longer than RB.

[odd hazel]

@limber lion So

i saw you say you're staying venth for the crit/haste weap

but theres only a sword and fist weap

are daggers not best for us?

also, the fist weap and sword are the lower ilvl of the two

[balmy condor]

we are required to use daggers

[odd hazel]

did Cev troll us?

[balmy condor]

idk what you're referring to tbh

[odd hazel]

#assassination message

[balmy condor]

?

[odd hazel]

OH

i 100% missed htat

lol

fooled my self :^)

[balmy condor]

but sylvanas dagger is crit/haste for everyone

so

I really don't think it even matters

[odd hazel]

i think the peices that we dont have as crit/haste are options next raid

[balmy condor]

I don't think that matters either

secondaries won't really make or break anything

[oak sky]

is there a way i can set up plater so when neutral npcs are in combat their nameplate turns red as well?

if anyone knows

[limber lion]

Just FYI, every covenant has every weapon type, they are not locked behind covenant choice. The only thing different between covenant weapons are the stats on the weapons themselves and the transmog of the weapon.

[limber lion]

There definitely is a way, but can't help ya much from bed. :'( sowwy

[oak sky]

no worries ill figure it out eventually

i just downloaded it last week and ive been messing with it a lot

[limber lion]

Yeah. I get a slight red border around the enemy-borders whenever they are in combat. Should be included with plater without any mods/scripts, but I could be wrong.

Maybe try using the search function and looking for "combat"

[oak sky]

ill try that

thanks

[limber lion]

[nimble tartan]

if by next raid venth bug not fixed i wonder if we just slap that in the sim to see our true chad dps number. idk how to do it

[limber lion]

Rumor has it that it has been fixed in 9.1

[nimble tartan]

ok thats good

[frail fossil]

another W for the necro gang

[nimble tartan]

i want to cry

[gusty mirage]

all that midmaxing for nothing

however will you survive

[fathom swift]

what bug

[frail fossil]

if u go to theotar tree, take the 200% longer pot trait, use apot 4sec before pull and switch back to nadjia u keep the pot effect

[fathom swift]

oh

that bug

[thorny pond]

That was some 5 head midmaxing

[fathom swift]

its a really small increase

and wasnt relevant for prog so people didnt care

[strange python]

Hey, for a main assa, offspec sub, should i go venth or necro for the 9.1 ?

[frail fossil]

not really it's like 2 pot in a fight instead of one

[frail fossil]

if u offspec sub and dont plan on playing outlaw, iwould say venthyr, necrolord is not good at all for sub, and the venth legendary will most likely be the go to for sub in 9.1

still ptr stuff so subject to change

[dawn ivy]

necro is bad but its not like its terrible

[strange python]

Ho, i said sub, would say outlaw, sorry

[hollow river]

does the dps of SS-BP just outweigh SBS?

[dawn ivy]

oh then necro

100%

[frail fossil]

yeah then no brainer go necro

[strange python]

Okok thanks bud, i saw a lot of assa necro on raiderio, would confirm this for the 9.1, thanks a lot !

[frail fossil]

we cannot say for sure in 9.1 cuz things can change, but necro is the safest option

and the most versatile

[strange python]

Okok, don't wanna up 40 renown, switch in 9.1 et up 80 renown

so thanks a lot !

[frail fossil]

i think blizz said there'll be a renown 40 catch up

so u should not worry abt that

[fathom swift]

yes that is a very small increase

you can pretty easily sim it if you're curious about the exact difference

[strange python]

Okok, i'll wait the patch note so !

[frail fossil]

dont care for it i'm necro

[fathom swift]

ok

but if you were curious

its very easy to find out

[frail fossil]

yeah ik

just a reclear strat to chug in some more dps to parse

[fathom swift]

ya

[gloomy knoll]

@balmy condor is final soulbinds supported yet

[dawn ivy]

https://tenor.com/view/bugs-bunny-bunny-no-nope-nou-gif-14651222

[shy dust]

Check general pins

[neat pulsar]

!op

!opener

😦

[gloomy knoll]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[gloomy knoll]

@neat pulsar

[balmy condor]

[gloomy knoll]

patch needa hurry up already

[neat pulsar]

why mutilate from stealth at opening guys ? doesn't ambush deals more dmg ?

I am checking a top raiding rogue and he always ambush at start

[frail fossil]

!mut

[prisma monolith]

Ambush is currently only used from blindside/sepsis proc, not from stealth.
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3).
Some other factors to consider are increased poison applications, blindside, and doomblade. This is true for all talent combinations and legendaries.

[frail fossil]

here

if ur necro u open with sbs btw

[neat pulsar]

we don't need more cp point tho, ambush is enough to get full time SnD no ?

I am necro and I always open with SbS, but i am wondering why other covenants keep using mutilate on opening ^^

[frail fossil]

it's more damage

and mostly, it doesn't really matter

it's like such a small diff in ur dmg output

[neat pulsar]

ok

[frail fossil]

opening with ambush wont sandbang ur damage for the next 5mins

still worse than opening with mut

[balmy condor]

the fun thing with mut is that it hits twice

and poisons are guaranteed from stealth

which means you're actually getting 2 hits of deadly

the fact that it hits twice and has a bunch of side effects

[frail fossil]

[balmy condor]

makes for some interesting stuff

[neat pulsar]

I thought ambush would deal more dmg but with the poison procs it may be different indeed

[balmy condor]

like ambush vs mut debates

oh it for sure does

it's just not as easy as "ambush double damage mut why ambush bad"

[neat pulsar]

ho and mut can proc twice weapon enchants ?

[balmy condor]

in theory yes

[neat pulsar]

phamtom fire as well ?? 😮 i din't think this far

[balmy condor]

well phantom fire and some other proc stuff has internal cd's and the proc rates have a general standard

so yes

but no

but kinda

[neat pulsar]

ok I see, still more chances to proc at start even if it can't double

[balmy condor]

at the end of the day, it's really a minor difference

[neat pulsar]

yes, was just wondering because on the paper, ambush seemed stronger

[balmy condor]

yeah

it's weird for sure

it also means you ignore the proc on sepsis entirely

[neat pulsar]

what's the differences of gameplay between deeper/blindside and Vigor/elaborate planning ? They both sim same on ST for me, but I knew the last one is better for multi, and I just figured out Vigor/elaborate planning deals more dmg during burst as well, like 500 dps

[frail fossil]

kinda weird having a button u never press unless u play blindside

[neat pulsar]

do you know any other diff ?

[frail fossil]

i dont understand what u're saying

both blind side deeper and elaborate planning vigor are very close in ST yes

[stoic needle]

god p2 sire is so fun

just running around rupturing everything

[frail fossil]

only time assa feels good to play

[neat pulsar]

I thought they sim the same in ST, but I tried a 20 sec sim and Vigor/elaborate sims 500 dps higher

[stoic needle]

with necro it's so goated

[neat pulsar]

i gained like 40% higher parses on sludge then

[stoic needle]

sbs > rupture > garrote

ez

[frail fossil]

yes because ST sims are usually not 20sec long

[stoic needle]

yes, EP is much better on short duration fights

[neat pulsar]

yes, but if you want top be opti for bursts on sludge, vigor seems better

[stoic needle]

ok so like

[frail fossil]

yeah most people play ep vigor

on sludge

[neat pulsar]

was wondering if there were any other cool stuff to know about how to pick your talents even if they seem same on ST 5 min

[stoic needle]

EP: more burst
BS: free, cheap cp, vulnerable to forced energy overcap from mechanics, more damage in execute
Deeper: less finishers but more powerful ones, better on extended cleave and long fights
Vigor: more finishers and more energy regen, better for burst

[neat pulsar]

nice one thx

[stoic needle]

p2 damage on our last pull, lets go

[neat pulsar]

thought vigor would be more punishing about overcapping no ?

you get overcap faster

[frail fossil]

no not really

u get more energy

and a bit more energy regen

technically it's harder to cap energy on sludge with vigor

since u got more of it

[neat pulsar]

ha ok, I see

thx it makes sense !

[frail fossil]

so i would say vigor is a good choice on sludge

[neat pulsar]

yep, i went from 40% parses to 80% just by getting vigor/EP lol

[frail fossil]

also the diff between deeper and vigor as necro is smaller than venthyr

[frail fossil]

i doubt a change of talent is the only reason why that happened but that's great

[hollow river]

leaving an SBS on remornia tho

and SBS > env > SBS > env etc, on sire during gemstone and shiv

mmmmm

[dry girder]

would you open with mutilate or ambush as assassination? ^^

[hollow river]

from stealth always muti

unless you're necro

[frail fossil]

if you're necrolord u open with sbs

otherwise u open with mutilate

[balmy condor]

!mut

[prisma monolith]

Ambush is currently only used from blindside/sepsis proc, not from stealth.
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3).
Some other factors to consider are increased poison applications, blindside, and doomblade. This is true for all talent combinations and legendaries.

[dry girder]

i started rerolling rogue yesterday and cant get a grip of the rotation -.-

You would prio 5 combo points on rupture first then land your first envenom after garrote, slice n dice and shiv are applied? 😮

[compact pumice]

Wait what,

SND and Rupture all comes before Shiv and then during shiv you mainly envenom.

[frail fossil]

so the opener somewhat would look like this :
Mutilate > SnD > mutilate > garrote> rupture > vendetta > mut > vanish > mut > envenom

roughly

[dry girder]

oh thanks! i've been applying garrote and rupture after 1st mutilate -.-

[hollow river]

don't forget shiv

O:

[frail fossil]

oh yeah fuck

it's late ok

[compact pumice]

Btw that's the opener with MA talent

If you have subterfuge you would do a garrote the first 3 secs

[hollow river]

yeah depends on the content you're doing VVV

[frail fossil]

Mutilate > SnD > mutilate > garrote> rupture > vendetta > mut > shiv >vanish > mut > envenom

may vary depending on ur crit luck btw

[dry girder]

i mostly use shiv when im missing 1 combo point before envenom

when its off cd

[hollow river]

noo slam it off CD

always

[compact pumice]

You use it as soon as it goes off CD yeah

[frail fossil]

shiv rule is you use it on cd, try to pool energy when it's about to come off cd

and if vendetta is coming off cd in 10sec it's fine to hold shiv for it

otherwise u use shiv on cd

even if ur at max cp, u can use shiv

[compact pumice]

I think you can delay vend or shiv up to 12 seconds even

[frail fossil]

it depends, for me most of the kills like hungering are like 4:18sec long so i dont wanna hold it or i wont benefit from a third one

[hollow river]

always spend 4 CP if you'd overcap from another builder

[dry girder]

appreciated 🙂 the pvp opener would be the same i suppose? just swap out 1st mutilate with cheapshot

[compact pumice]

You delay if you don't lose a cast. If you do then don't

[hollow river]

pvp is prolly a good bit different

#pvp would know best

[frail fossil]

that is literally what i explained lol

holding shiv for vendetta or vendetta for shiv is roughly the same, it depends on ur kill timers most of the time

[compact pumice]

Your wording made it sound like you preferred 10 secs delay only and not 12 while I said that it is 12 but as long as you don't lose a cast

[dry girder]

should I be applying rupture with 1 cp or 5 cp on boss fights? 😮

[hollow river]

4-5

[compact pumice]

You finish at 4/5 without DS and 5/6 with DS

[frail fossil]

the only finisher u can use at low cp is SnD

[hollow river]

since envenom applies SnD

[frail fossil]

u can use low cp rupture on adds that will die soon

but in ST situation u will be using rupture at max or -1 from max cp

[dry girder]

thanks 🙂 i just struggle with high SnD uptime

[balmy condor]

you envenom for uptime

[frail fossil]

u shouldn't

[balmy condor]

should only ever cast snd once

it maintains itself from there if you just keep an eye on it and envenom

[compact pumice]

Btw, I found reading a guide might answer questions you didn't think of to ask:

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[dry girder]

ah i see so the idea is to apply 1 SnD and then use envenom for uptime before it runs out. understood

[dry girder]

tyvm

[frail fossil]

if u do ur rotation properly ur SnD should never fall off once u apply it at first

and u wont have to reapply it

[shrewd current]

aw man I can't decide.. orc or belf..

[hollow river]

same

[compact pumice]

Orc

[hollow river]

like every class can be belf but that's boring

[compact pumice]

Ofc

[shrewd current]

transmogs on male belf look SO GOOD though

[compact pumice]

Belf is only for horny kids

[shrewd current]

belf it is

[hollow river]

yep

you made up our minds for us Anno

[neat pulsar]

I don't like the female Belf attack animations

[compact pumice]

Casuals! Get Orcing!

[neat pulsar]

but male is fine

[shrewd current]

yea, female has such good stealth animation though

but transmogs kinda look trash on female belf

[hollow river]

most would argue female belf is best xmog

[shrewd current]

I think its mostly between female orc vs male belf

[hollow river]

hmm

i'd never go male belf js

[shrewd current]

also for reference, am currently male vulpera

so the bar is set pretty low

[hollow river]

ew

im undead but getting bored of it

[neat pulsar]

you can switch gender for free now btw

[hollow river]

its not free

still costs GoLd

[neat pulsar]

😦