assassination

[limber lion]

But yeah, anything can change and nothing's certain yet.

[carmine solstice]

still struggling between necro and venth, I will change today, but dont know which one

[severe harness]

is it worth if i use zoldyck over doomblade if my guild lacks dps on denathrius p3?

or it aint that much difference

[limber lion]

I'm changing from Venthyr to Necrolord myself tomorrow :)

[shrewd dawn]

What is that Theotar cheese?

[limber lion]

Yes, especially if your damage is not as needed in P2.

Zoldyck for progression is definitely a great choice

[limber lion]

You use a tome, swap to Theotar with Refined Palate, you pre-pot and then swap back to Nadja

That way you get the full benefit from Refined Palate (100-200% extra duration on potion) and the full Nadja soulbind tree.

[carmine solstice]

what is the reason behind? i pref necro, since outlaw bis (doing m+ as outlaw all the time, sub time has gone), assa 2+ target better than venth, good for assa pvp and not that bad for sub either

[shrewd dawn]

Thx a lot did not know that

[limber lion]

Necrolord wins in any aoe situation. In 2t, m+, add waves etc.

And it's not necessarily too far off in single target either, less than 100 dps.

[carmine solstice]

gotcha

it will be my 3rd change, soooo booooring

[limber lion]

Most bosses have some sort of add mechanic, so necrolord becomes the ultimate choice.

[limber lion]

No worries mate!

[carmine solstice]

leveling everything again, getting companions, doing quests

meh

[limber lion]

I changed from Night Fae to Venthyr to Necrolord to Venthyr to Necrolord

:--)

[carmine solstice]

sheesh

kyrian -> nf -> necro

[limber lion]

I mean, I don't care for any of the anima stuff

I only care about dps

[carmine solstice]

same

[limber lion]

So I don't do any of the covenant specific stuff, like mission tables, tea parties or anything

[carmine solstice]

but still

mounts are good tho

[limber lion]

I mean getting Renown 31 takes less than a day

It's not that bad

[carmine solstice]

do you have a tip how, or just play the game

[limber lion]

Yeah

[coral hazel]

clear LFR, is a fast early way to get renown

[limber lion]

Just do LFR then Normal then Heroic

Then you do the world boss

Then you do the covenant campaign from start to finish

Tada, you got 31+ renown

[carmine solstice]

ezpz

[limber lion]

You can get 20+ renown from just the raids

[pure moth]

i didnt get a chance to pug raid... just did lfr and campaign and some dungeons and im at 30

id prob be at 40 if i did the raid

[thorny pond]

Storyline and the 2 weeklies are the worst part of Renown grind

[limber lion]

Definitely

[thorny pond]

I'd do souls too before soulkeeper upgrade unless you need the extra 15 fwiw

Not like it takes long but it gets annoying

[olive peak]

Hi guys, as a new rogue looking to do Mythic raid and M+ come next patch what covenant should i choose? Mostly Outlaw for M+ and Assa for Raid

[limber lion]

Definitely Necrolord.

No question about it.

[olive peak]

even if i mainly focus assa for mythic raid?

[limber lion]

Yes.

Necrolord is the competitive choice for assassination.

Venthyr is good for ST, but that's about it.

[olive peak]

i see

ye rogue covenant choices seem so underwhelming

compared to say hunters

[odd hazel]

Realistically it doesnt matter what CoV you do. but since you wanna do M+ i agree with Cev, go Necro.

You can preform fine as venth in M+ but you're more priority damage then spread damage

Also that necro leggo is just cementing Necro as the M+ CoV

im 100% going necro next patch until i get KSM next season then most likely wil lswitch back to venth

@limber lion you're going to get a 226 weap in the vault this week.

[olive peak]

why is venthyr even that better for assa? what makes it stronger than necro in ST

[odd hazel]

it gives you a ton of haste and hits like a truck

[plain thistle]

does more damage

[odd hazel]

also

euphoria

[limber lion]

It just does more damage with the covenant ability. Pretty simple

The ability is tailored for ST whereas SBS is tailored for AoE

[olive peak]

i see

[limber lion]

[iron orchid]

Don't use your luck now, if you get one this week, you won't ever get one in 9.1

[odd hazel]

yeah but you wont need one as soon in 9.1 if you get one now

[iron orchid]

I mean a 252 one in 9.1

That's just superstitious shit anyways

[odd hazel]

if my luck is anything like it is now with weapons, i wont ever get one till 9.2

i just got my first 223 weap in my vault last week so lmao

first weap i ever saw in vault

[iron orchid]

It worked for me going from 8.1 to 8.2, let's hope it does going from 9.0 to 9.1

First week 252 dagger POG

[dark crag]

I had a 252 dagger in the ptr vault

Let's hope it is a sign

[odd hazel]

honestly

if i got a good dagger at start

i'd be okay with anything else that happens

[spice spire]

Any 213 Offhand gamers still?

Just me? Damn

[sacred isle]

210 :/

[odd hazel]

i currently only haave a 213 one but can upgrade to 220 now.

[spice spire]

220 MH and 213 OH
But I finally got a phial last week

[sacred isle]

Got 220 from sire this week for mh. Before that I had 210/197. Been trying to get daggers to switch to sin since feb ~~

[fallen arch]

Spam Mists?

Doesn’t seem that hard

[spice spire]

I got a 220 in March. Been looking for weapons since November

[sacred isle]

Don’t have unlimited playtime.

[odd hazel]

who said you had to have unlimited play time?

[sacred isle]

Done 4 14-15 each week. Pf nw mists and sanguine. Never drops. And havnt seen a rogue spherule this entire tier

[spice spire]

I play wow maybe ten-fifteen hours a week, work, relationship, and other stuff get in the way, y’know 😅.

[sacred isle]

This does

[spice spire]

All weapons were given to me as well

[odd hazel]

thats just saying spam mists

???

[sacred isle]

Do you know the definition of spam?

[odd hazel]

i do

[sacred isle]

Except for the ham

[odd hazel]

but he didnt say how much

you can spam it for the hours you have

[fallen arch]

Rip

That sucks

Sounds like I got lucky then

[odd hazel]

i was rocking crit/mastery for the longest time

only like in the last 3 weeks did i get a haste/vers dagger

prob did like 20+ Mists

[spice spire]

Some people are unlucky with weapons. 8.3 I didn’t get a 475 until like July, spammed entire patch ><

[sacred isle]

Biggest problem I’d say is no one but rogues can drop agi daggers. So it’s locked to your loot

[spice spire]

Yeah - it’s really bad. Tokens helped at least, like I said. Gifted all my weapons. Next patch I’m scared though

[odd hazel]

i havent got a single sire token though but

i have a 223 Tanglewood and now will have a 220 OH tangle as well

but i feel like i got lucky with that

[sacred isle]

Doesn’t help that warriors and monks are in rare supply in raids aswell

[frosty bridge]

Defo in that category. Not a single heroic or mythic wep token since release

Still running 2x220 valor upgraded mists daggers

[spice spire]

This is the week 226 in vault, one time

[odd hazel]

i would love any thing thats a upgrade at this point. but Phial/IQD/Dagger would be the biggest upgrade

[spice spire]

Like I said, phial dropped for DK in my group and they gave it up. Huge moment. I think outside of daggers IQD biggest upgrade?

[odd hazel]

i can upgrade one currently to 220, but it would save me a ton of valor if a IQD was in there

#PrayToRngesus

wait

do you have a 226 phial

quake

[spice spire]

Nah 220

Dropped a 213 from PF - and the DK passed and I had like 5k valor for some reason so I boosted it hard

[severe hemlock]

Is there a way to look at rupture uptime in sims in multi target situations?

[odd hazel]

you can look at each target you damaged

oh

on sims?

or logs?

[severe hemlock]

Sims

I'm curious when there're 4-5 targets what my realistic rupture uptime on them should be

[spice spire]

As close to 100 as possible

[odd hazel]

226 haste/vers belt...kind of fucks my crit value. hopefully upgrading these peices gets it higher then my haste

[plain thistle]

lets go boys, second 233 dagger

played too much wow last week, I deserve it

[fallen arch]

I feel this should be deleted

[plain thistle]

it doesn't matter anymore, tier is over

[fallen arch]

But hey, congrats 😄

[plain thistle]

I can flex on my max ILVL tho

[tropic ocean]

double weapon is enough for 230?

@plain thistle

[plain thistle]

with both 233 trinkets, cape, helmet, shoulder and ring yes

[tropic ocean]

nice so I just need 2nd weapon

and dont need to steal cloth chest

[plain thistle]

too much haste boys, fuck

[tropic ocean]

👍

pretty lucky though with 1 vault option i've 9 kills 8 vaults always 3 options and still miss stuff if i didnt get back helm traded i'd still not have it 😄

[plain thistle]

I have like 10 denath kills, both dagger came from vault

first one 2-3 weeks ago and second one today

[tropic ocean]

y we struggle tokens a lot as well

not even alts need trinkets anymore

but many weapons needed

[alpine latch]

I'm struggling with the idea of finding a CE guild or staying where I am and focusing on just having fun

[spice spire]

That’s a cursed amount of crit friend

[amber mountain]

I stopped that struggle long ago. I already have 1 job, I don't need another

[odd hazel]

all i want is a guild that atleast attempts mythic

but none of my guilds i've been in can ever keep 20 people

after finishing heroic

[alpine latch]

My guild I'm in right now is Friday night only

And Friday nights I rarely ever do anything, so it works out so well

We're 3/10 and will be 4/10 this week assuming everyone is back like they are supposed to be

Turned over some people and some of the main roster has been on vacation so we've stalled a bit, but we always raid even if it's just a heroic re-clear and Shriek/huntsman

[wise thorn]

Hi! Last week, I sim'd 7k. I reran the sim this week and I'm 60 DPS lower with the exact same setup. Was there an update to the simc build?

[odd hazel]

did you make sure everything was the same?

i did mine just now and had to put some things back

like AP on both weapons

/etc

[dense axle]

damn bois, GV came through this week. I have a 226 Phial and a 233 weapon token

[tropic ocean]

theres also guilds that raid ce and you have fun in

[wise thorn]

Yes. I quick sim'd the highest topgear I ran to make sure.

[slow marsh]

Time to swap to Necro

[drifting cloud]

windfury totem fix I believe

[alpine latch]

There are, but if I leave my guild and I don't fit in with the new guild, I'm fucked.

WoW is the only game I play. I play 3-4 hours a day, every day. Even more on the weekends.

[tropic ocean]

well its up to you and idk your guild but i've been in guilds were ppl wanted to go for higher ranking but didnt like the extra hours and came back without issues, dunno if its possible in your guild

[spice spire]

This is correct, there was a wft bug fix in the sims

[tropic ocean]

in the end need to make the decision for yourself if you prefer to raid on a higher level or stay with friends and don't

[wise thorn]

Thank you for your answer! What is the bug?

[plain thistle]

necro already 🙂

[spice spire]

It was simming higher than intended across the board

[alpine latch]

Yeah, definitely. I'm still trying to figure that out... I hate when guilds end raiding early more than anything, so that's another struggle

[spice spire]

So they fixed it for everyone. So a lot of melee are about -100, though apparently hance shaman’s are even worse off

[balmy condor]

How

The change shouldn’t affect them

[limber swallow]

one day, I'll get a dagger.. one day..

[spice spire]

Wait what? Am I spewing misinformation from OT

[balmy condor]

The rank 2 isn’t affecting other people

[spice spire]

Ahhhh

[balmy condor]

It’s still working on the shaman

[spice spire]

I didn’t know what the bug was, just knew that it stopped our dps
I’ll grab a screen from earlier where it was said. Either that or I’m lit

Nope I’m lit

Shaman gets 20%, everyone else gets 10%. I just misread this am

[sacred isle]

Well there is no change in the in game dps. It’s just the sims was changes to reflect how the spell really is working

[balmy condor]

Yeh

[spice spire]

Yeah

No change for any of it at all if you don’t have a hance shaman

[sacred isle]

Which I do 🙂

[candid token]

Quick question, been browsing through Slushyfist logs, and seein' all the Rogues using Crit gems and Enchants. Is that what we want on Sludge? Im Venthyr

[shy dust]

they just use what sims best

[odd hazel]

crit gems sim like

+6 dps increase for me

over agil

[shy dust]

some people use crit gems/enchants

[limber swallow]

is there a way to have raidbots simulate upgrading valor items?

[candid token]

I already feel pretty slowish, cant imagine not having haste gems 0.o

[shy dust]

because it sims best

iqd has an effect on this as venthyr

[odd hazel]

tbh, you dont need the haste stuff as venth

[balmy condor]

Droptimizer 220

[candid token]

Allrighty, Ill just sim then I guess, thanks ^-^

[shy dust]

jesus christ Whispyr

stop

change the profile picture back

[balmy condor]

No

[odd hazel]

didnt you go mage rae

[shy dust]

Ima rogue main

Havent raided in like 4 weeks as rogue and still am pretty high in all star points

[odd hazel]

sadly as sub

[shy dust]

?

As Assa brother

[odd hazel]

oh

forgive me

brother lord of deeps

[shy dust]

Put some respect on the previous #2 in all star points

[odd hazel]

last place unless your first

[shy dust]

First had 20 more PIs

[odd hazel]

tell me how it feels to get PI

[ruby birch]

dude

i fucking hate this game

@limber lion i got another dagger

i actually cant stand this game

i literally did 1 m+ last week

i just want a chest piece

please

[limber swallow]

give me the dagger, kthxbye.

[ruby birch]

please

im so sick

of getting daggers

im actually so sick of it

[odd hazel]

maybe get more then one choice pepe

[willow eagle]

Would be nice to swap, been getting chestpieces for weeks when I need a dagger

[ruby birch]

i had a week where unironically all 3 choices were daggers...

but at least that week i actually needed a 226 dagger

[balmy condor]

@ruby birch dagger gang

[ruby birch]

[spice spire]

No dagger gang

[odd hazel]

I wish i got a 226 dagger

fight me gloom, give me

[ruby birch]

give me a 226 chest piece with crit haste on it

[odd hazel]

what about a 220

[spice spire]

Best I can do is haste vers

[odd hazel]

what about my226 haste vers belt i jsut got

[sacred robin]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[amber mountain]

I'm in the no dagger gang... 226 pants this week....

Still running 213's

[spice spire]

[stoic needle]

another week with 220 gloves

why even bother living

[odd hazel]

@stoic needle why not 226?

[stoic needle]

perish

[odd hazel]

[stoic needle]

[limber lion]

Dayum

Rich get richer, smh

[spice spire]

True

[oak sky]

my best vault drop is a dungeon trinket that isnt phial 😦

today

[stoic needle]

Which one

[upper trout]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[oak sky]

flayedwing toxin, which is ok but not great

[stoic needle]

oof

big rip

[gusty mirage]

I circumvented disappointment day by doing nothing last week

[stoic needle]

i tried the one key thing

failure

[gusty mirage]

Can’t get mad if you don’t get anything

[odd hazel]

everyday i just remind my self that i have 226 gloves and osh doesnt

[gusty mirage]

[oak sky]

i was finishing up ksm this past week so i ended up with 4 dungeons done

[odd hazel]

but

[stoic needle]

i will end you

[odd hazel]

i got a 226 haste/vers belt so i guess its fine

[gusty mirage]

You too?

[spice spire]

We should form a club

[stoic needle]

you feeling lucky punks?

[odd hazel]

everyone post a picture of your gloves

[gusty mirage]

Stop teasing me with a good time and put me outta my misery already.

[cedar star]

Do we know yet if we are keeping Doomblade on gloves for next tier

[slow marsh]

No

[slow marsh]

we might have to change to dashing

[stoic needle]

still too early to say because the domination gems aren't simmable or fully developed yet

[slow marsh]

Also I have the same @odd hazel but with avoidance. Though I'm using the ones with flipped stats cuz the higher haste sims higher

[spice spire]

Infinitely worse 226 🙂

[slow marsh]

I mean I wouldn't say infinitely .. xD

[carmine token]

I've gotten my KSM, and figured since my raid group called it quits at 6/10m, i'll try to push keys. I'd love to try to do 20s. I'm about 221 ilvl, and my dps seems to be somewhere between 5-5.3k in those 15s with a decent group (last week). Without using pots. As necro, how much dps you guys who push keys are putting out?

[oak sky]

im doing from 5k-5.5k depending on dungeon/group as venthyr

[slow marsh]

6 easy 7 if i'm trying

[stoic needle]

usually 6-7k, 8k if you're really pumping

[oak sky]

in 15s

[slow marsh]

yea 15's 16's

[odd hazel]

do you spam the garrotes first then put out your spikes?

[stoic needle]

yeah

[spice spire]

yeah

[slow marsh]

Depends on which setup but yeah for normal zold subt you garrote x4 then CT then use sbs as builder

instead of fok

[oak sky]

i should mention my ilvl is probably low haha

[slow marsh]

tbh i doubt its that much lower. I was doing 5-5.5 for a minute before i got a good feel for what i was doing

[oak sky]

yeah ur prob right

[slow marsh]

a big thing is dont hold vendetta / vanish too long if at all

[oak sky]

i definitely forget about vanish a lot but im pretty good about vendetta

[slow marsh]

Yeah vanish is big cuz you get refresh of sub garrote which is huge

[stoic needle]

it's actually not as big as you'd think

but it's important

[oak sky]

i usually pop it on prides but i forget about it mid dungeon

[stoic needle]

just use it on cd

[oak sky]

ye

[slow marsh]

Popping stuff on pride is a given, you should be blowing it up every time

[oak sky]

100%

[slow marsh]

Its the in between mob pulls that are probably the ones making the difference for your overall

[oblique harness]

guys can i ask you for a good list of macros for my assassination rogue?

[balmy condor]

You don’t need any

[drifting cloud]

vendetta+zugzug

[stoic needle]

@balmy condor what does the "cycle_target" parameter mean in the sin AOE APL? i'm trying to understand what your APL changes mean in terms of rupture usage. If I'm understanding it correctly, the TTD for rupture goes up when saturated with energy?

[balmy condor]

Yes

The cycle just picks a target

[stoic needle]

Okay. gotcha. so the rupture TTD becomes 9 with dashing/doomblade, 15 with dashing/db while esat, and 4 with zoldyck, and 10 with zoldyck while esat?

[balmy condor]

Yes

I’m praying 2 legendaries won’t be a thing

Cause technically dashing + doom = 14 base, 20 esat

That would be giga losses

[velvet escarp]

hey guys, if i've got vendetta on one target, and a second target spawns, do i swap over and apply bleeds? or just tunnel the vendetta target until it's over?

[balmy condor]

You apply

[velvet escarp]

cool thanks

[stoic needle]

i wonder how that would feel to play

with 20 esat ttd on rupture

[dawn ivy]

experienced rogue looking at "esat" "ttd"

https://tenor.com/view/letterzip-question-mark-confused-question-gif-13025594

[balmy condor]

Esat is new

TTD is time to death

Esat is Just energy saturation

It’s been a thing in sims for a while but the stuff in #tc-research uses it more

So it’s something

[stoic needle]

esat is just a big brain way to say '5-6 bleeds on poisoned targets'

[balmy condor]

I mean not really

[limber lion]

Gonna take some time to get used to the new Whispyr

looking cute tho

[stoic needle]

not really what?

[balmy condor]

Esat factors in your passive regen as well, I did an example yesterday with esra where you technically reach a haste breakpoint

[limber lion]

esat is dynamic, 5-6 bleeds is not.

[stoic needle]

interesting

[limber lion]

Flag haste, bloodlust

Still need 5-6 bleeds?

Nope

[balmy condor]

#assassination message

[drifting cloud]

[balmy condor]

That’s for choosing to CT vs rupture

But it uses an esat of 20

So same concept

[hollow river]

[stoic needle]

wow

that's very useful info

[hollow river]

Is everything changing?

[balmy condor]

No

[stoic needle]

is 20 energy per second the number we usually go for to consider it saturation?

[balmy condor]

No, 20 is just the break to CT over a rupture

The apl has 2 CT lines

One before rupture

And one after

The before line doesnt proc until you have enough energy regen (logically makes sense, you want to not be starved after a CT)

The second is there as a backup

[stoic needle]

ah so that's what that second line is for

that's sick

[balmy condor]

35 is the break for esat as in actual saturation

Esat20 Just for the rup vs ct

[limber lion]

Just wanna say that all of this talk about saturation, energy, ct and whatnot, will probably not change how you play the class for real.

[stoic needle]

i'm fixing my janky bleed tracking weakaura as we speak lol

[limber lion]

It's just making the sim smarter and better

It's very min-maxy stuff and I don't think it's worth counting TTD's in M+

[stoic needle]

i think the stuff about refreshing CT before pandemic is useful

[limber lion]

It's information overload

Yeah, that's true.

I mean, it's all very important stuff and can be useful

But it can also become very overwhelming if you start to think about it too much when actually playing the game

[stoic needle]

perhaps

I don't really count the individual TTD of every single mob in a pack. i just think it's valuable when choosing what targets to use your abilities on which is like 50% of playing sin in M+ to begin with lol

i feel like i rupture things that are dying a bit too much at times

[balmy condor]

I think there’s some validity to thinking about your energy regen during aoe towards the end of the pack

The question of “do I rupture this” when packs are at like 15% hp comes up quite a bit

Seasoned sin players will however already be doing basically what the change does already

[limber lion]

Yeah, but I feel like

Yeah well there we go

[limber lion]

I was just about to say this

Took the words out of my mouth

[hollow river]

Yep

[gusty mirage]

You can still rupture things that are dying, just don’t dump a 3-5cp rupture into something at 10% health

[stoic needle]

i mean i'd literally been doing the opposite because the apl says the ttd for rupture is 4s lmao

[limber lion]

I've just been using Envenoms on packs that are about to die because not only is it more efficient damage wise, it also helps extend SnD and carry it over to the next pack.

[gusty mirage]

You’re probably better off envenom anyway

Envenoming*

[limber lion]

Having ruptures up so you have energy to actually dump Envenoms is important as well

[balmy condor]

Well the change will probably make you CT more

[limber lion]

Can't go energy starved just trying to dump Envenoms and nothing else.

[strange python]

Can you one shot people in kidneys as assa

[limber lion]

Sure #pvp

[balmy condor]

Not usually

[gusty mirage]

#pvp would probably know better

[hollow river]

I have to fix my plater profile, once a mob is below like 30% my last two bleeds cover the health

[strange python]

Oh fuck wrong channel haha sry fellas

[gusty mirage]

Get yoself a plater profile like @balmy condor (:

[gusty mirage]

[strange python]

Thanks!

[hollow river]

What do you mean

He has big PP profile?

[limber lion]

All sin mains do.

We don't play the game with shitty plater profiles.

[hollow river]

Mines not bad

[gusty mirage]

From personal experience, stronger oxi has the best of the best

Including better dps than me

[warm parcel]

How bout not using plater

Just vanilla plates

[gusty mirage]

[balmy condor]

Cursed

[limber lion]

I prefer mine, so screw you.

[stoic needle]

[limber lion]

[stoic needle]

vanilla plates are horrible

[balmy condor]

But I’m stronger oxi

[gusty mirage]

Listen here buddy.

Budget Whispyr/Ryfie is trying his boomer best

[limber lion]

Ey 2 in one

[hollow river]

We’re all stronger o I

[strange python]

How do you guys feel about assa in keys?

[hollow river]

Oxi*

[limber lion]

Very good.

[stoic needle]

its the most fun rogue spec in keys

[limber lion]

Smiley

[stoic needle]

no cap

[gusty mirage]

[strange python]

Fr? Nice

[burnt star]

Can u link your plater!! :)

[limber lion]

Remember when Oshosi used to play Outlaw in keys?

[burnt star]

I want to change mine

[gusty mirage]

[alpine latch]

Sin is pretty chill in keys and can handle +25s

[stoic needle]

we all have periods of weakness ok

[gusty mirage]

Cev’s just passively roasting me today

[scenic root]

I played outlaw to KSM, then switched to Sin, so much more fun.

[hollow river]

❤️

[warm parcel]

Seems good enough ignoring the stupid large font size on ptr

[limber lion]

Gotta strike while the iron is hot

[balmy condor]

https://wago.io/p/Whispyr

[gusty mirage]

Wdym those numbers are perfect for me

[limber lion]

That's... default?

[stoic needle]

i played sin to ksm, played outlaw for my first couple 17s and 18s, and then switched back to sin and never looked back

[limber lion]

Is that some minimalistic-version of vanilla or

[warm parcel]

Only skinned, but yes "default"

[balmy condor]

He’s actually playing classic

You don’t remember but that’s what they looked like back then

[strange python]

You guys are playing venthyr pretty much right? Not necro for keys or raid?

[limber lion]

Ah fair enough

[balmy condor]

Necro gang

[limber lion]

No fuck that

We're Necroboys

[alpine latch]

Necro

[gusty mirage]

In we trust

[slow marsh]

necro bois here

[scenic root]

Necro gang rep

[limber lion]

Imagine saying we're Venthyr

[stoic needle]

[balmy condor]

[hollow river]

With pandemic highlight O:

[balmy condor]

Theotar abuser

[limber lion]

[spice spire]

Bone spike only gamers

[dawn ivy]

venthyr is pure ST and boring, bone boy is more fun

[gusty mirage]

My covenant path was so cursed. Old venthyr -> kyrian -> venthyr -> necro

[spice spire]

Even I made the swap

Same but replace kyrian with night fae

[slow marsh]

those are some serious allegations sir

[warm parcel]

ven > kyrian > fae > ven > necro

[spice spire]

Actually exact same

[stoic needle]

i was OG necro

[limber lion]

Pls Blizzard-gods nerf the living shit out of Theotar

[spice spire]

Damn weak really out here

[gusty mirage]

Fellow sufferer of old flag

[limber lion]

So I can finally swap back

[stoic needle]

necro > venthyr > nf > venthyr > necro

[limber lion]

[warm parcel]

old flag was so bad

holy

[spice spire]

Cursed

[balmy condor]

Kyrian for 2 keys cause sub kyrian hitting the cp is aids > fae > venth > necro

[scenic root]

Fae> necro. The thought of sub being good at 9.0

[gusty mirage]

Dollar store haste version of ashvane’s coral

[stoic needle]

old flag was one of the worst abilities they have put in the game ngl

[spice spire]

Max covenant gamer

[limber lion]

Agonizing Poison

[balmy condor]

I’m 3 renown on kyrian

[slow marsh]

I went Kyrian - Night Fae - Venthyr - Necro - Venthyr - Necro. What about it

[stoic needle]

keyword there is one of :p

[spice spire]

Gaming

[oak sky]

recasting old flag felt soooo shit

[limber lion]

Yeah, a lot of shitty abilities come and go

[gusty mirage]

Ngl though, it was nice having 3 viable soulbinds after being venthyr. Only redeeming quality of the blue owl boys

[limber lion]

Recasting? Who remembered to do that? Not me

[oak sky]

exactly lol

[gusty mirage]

I needed a sound queue to remember to reactivate it

[dawn ivy]

so glad i dropped rogue for the beginning of this tier tbh

[oak sky]

and it did like 1k damage per cast or something

[strange python]

Thanks for being super helpful! ❤️

[limber lion]

No worries buddy

[stoic needle]

i like the sound of recasting CT halfway through the duration

gotta try that out this week

[strange python]

Is there a good place to look for how I should be playing in keys? Ww rerolling to rogue.

[gusty mirage]

So a certain prominent streamer was 400 iq spamming CT?

[limber lion]

twitch.tv/ryfietv

[balmy condor]

No

[strange python]

Ty!

[balmy condor]

[stoic needle]

who's got the ryfie guide bookmarked

[gusty mirage]

@warped temple ‘s your man for m+ content

[limber lion]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1W2Db7rkSIiT56b0PXQPjugZATnyx6aDOflx4oZgVwgs/edit?usp=sharing
this one?

[balmy condor]

Why bookmark a guide

[limber lion]

I don't

[balmy condor]

When you’re the proof read

[limber lion]

I just yoinked it from the discord

[spice spire]

Cev beat me to it

[balmy condor]

Ryfie slaps tho

[ruby birch]

[balmy condor]

Idk how he does it

[spice spire]

Mobile discord 😡

[gusty mirage]

Someone want to come kidnap me from work?

[stoic needle]

he built diffy

[ruby birch]

give me your chest piece cev

[spice spire]

Some people are simply built different

[ruby birch]

please

[cerulean nest]

i did significantly better on my first m+ after reading the guide (and still playing like ass)

[gusty mirage]

You’ll get there

[spice spire]

Only if you take me too

[limber lion]

Nu >:(

[stoic needle]

i like sin in m+ because it's methodical

[dawn ivy]

i havent been able to find a good nameplate profile that doesnt annoy me so ive been playing default plater for months now

[cerulean nest]

yeah if I really focus up going forward i can definitely start hitting 7k+

[limber lion]

I like sin in M+ because I like sin everywhere

[stoic needle]

as long as you keep your bleeds up you're gonna do decent damage even if you mess up sometimes

[warped temple]

agreed

[hollow river]

Ryfie has jump macro’d to every ability

[balmy condor]

What’s wrong with ss bp ss bp ss bp ss bp ss bp

[gusty mirage]

@warped temple teach me your secrets

[balmy condor]

That seems very methodical

[hollow river]

(:

[stoic needle]

[warped temple]

just be korean

[gusty mirage]

Flashback to EB days

[warped temple]

LMAO

[gusty mirage]

I was born into the wrong part of Asia lineage wise

[balmy condor]

Gar gar gar fok fok fok fok ct fok fok fok fok fok rup fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok

[warped temple]

LOL true that

[slow marsh]

sir we use sbs here

[gusty mirage]

Any diver’s folly freehold meme run gamers?

[hollow river]

Me: “Why do you keep jumping?”
Ryfie: “this game is too boring”
In a +24

[warped temple]

HAHAHHAH

i remember saying that

[gusty mirage]

Double folly, meme beam, fok as primary builder?

[balmy condor]

I’m not afraid to say it

Eb is degenerate gameplay

[gusty mirage]

Oh 110%

[balmy condor]

But it’s fun

[limber lion]

It is the most degenerate gameplay we've ever had

[balmy condor]

[gusty mirage]

But that fat EB damage outside on TD

[dawn ivy]

remember that three hour window where EB was one shotting packs

i member

[gusty mirage]

Remember that poisoned knife trait where you could 1 shot people in pvp?

[balmy condor]

Member in Antorus when we macro’d throw knife and shadowstep together for openers?

I member

[dawn ivy]

beautiful

[gusty mirage]

I was a casual gamer in legion

[drifting cloud]

that was patched pretty fast didnt it whispyr

[balmy condor]

2 weeks

[drifting cloud]

was it more than like 2 weeks

thought so

[gusty mirage]

Plus I had jus started law school so I didn’t have time for wow

[warped temple]

any fonters in the chat?

[dawn ivy]

oh god font

[balmy condor]

[gusty mirage]

Why haven’t you vendored that yet?

[warped temple]

LOL

[dawn ivy]

the nerd screams when your guild fucks up a timer

"MY FFOOOOOOOOOONTTTT

[warm parcel]

font op on ptr

it scales up 📈

[warped temple]

hahhahah

[spice spire]

Scales

[gusty mirage]

The nerd screams when you don’t get to stealth because your tank has “premature” issues?

[balmy condor]

I had a tank using moonglaives unironically in a 15 I did earlier this expac

It still did like 2% damage or something

[limber lion]

The second I got my hands on 475 Vita with a socket, I threw that shit out the window like Kobe

[warped temple]

LOL

[odd heath]

Oh no. Font + coral. Hated the gameplay

[dawn ivy]

vita was a godsend, i yeeted my font so hard

[balmy condor]

Font made me want to jump out of a helicopter, like Kobe

[dawn ivy]

coral/inkpod is probably my favorite trinket combo we've seen in awhile

[limber lion]

[balmy condor]

Inkpod was cool

[limber lion]

All the passive trinkets are cool

Miss me with the double active shit

[dawn ivy]

double active is typically cringe especially if theyre synergetic

[real solar]

@warped temple i love u

[warm parcel]

Not using coral on nozoth was inting tho

You had perfect 2 min burst intervals

[warped temple]

im your biggest fan

[real solar]

thx m8

[limber lion]

I used Plumage.

Can't have em both

Plum + Vita, the nuttiest combo

[wind dune]

so for iqd, does the higher stat have to be in % or is it the flat number I need higher? trying to get higher crit then mastery but its proving a little rough with the gear i've been given

[dawn ivy]

i used cannoball runner because it simmed better

[limber lion]

A one-use instant stat boost trinket and a passive stat boost trinket

[real solar]

flat number

[limber lion]

Flat rating.

[wind dune]

thanks homies

[warm parcel]

Look at them nozoth dpsers

[lament aurora]

i miss corruptions

[warm parcel]

big NP tech

[dawn ivy]

when we had so much haste and crit that we ACTUALLY started to value mastery

[tacit peak]

Embarrassed to ask this but what does ‘in ting’ mean

[limber lion]

What is this in reference to?

[plain thistle]

my first nzoth kill 😂

echoing void

and ofc coral gang

[dawn ivy]

you mean "inting"?

[tacit peak]

Can’t find the chat. Someone said something like “not using X on boss Y is inting”

[dawn ivy]

yeah inting

[gusty mirage]

[dawn ivy]

inting is intentionally being bad

or intentionally making a mistake

[tacit peak]

Thanks 🤌🏼

[dawn ivy]

typically being used melodramatically

normally just means youre making such a massive mistake you HAVE to be aware youre making it

[tacit peak]

Choosing to play sub optimally

Needs an urban dictionary entry

[warm parcel]

Inting comes from league

Intentionally feeding aka letting your team down :D

[tacit peak]

I seeee

[drifting cloud]

[warm parcel]

Coral just fit nozoth well

[tacit peak]

Some serious etymology going on here

[dawn ivy]

just gamer lingo because we want everything to sound cool

[tacit peak]

Lol yes we do

[dawn ivy]

"im sure assassination wont miss SS that much right?"

[wary ice]

i miss ss that much tbh

[spice spire]

Scuffed ass opener tho

[limber lion]

Hot take

SS was almost as degenerate as Echoing Blades

[limber swallow]

echoing blades was silly.

[limber lion]

I don't think how healthy it is doing 40% of your entire damage with your first 3 garrotes

Probably even more than 40% to be fair

[plain thistle]

I liked SS more, I actually didnt play echoing in dungeon in last tier, I just used haste build with SS + status

and did actually super good damage

[limber lion]

Same.

I like SS, but it was still dumb as fuck

[plain thistle]

haste build in dungeons was super fun

[limber swallow]

I had more fun with the crit / severity build.

[subtle tundra]

i liked SS because it felt like i was actually doing damage.
as of right now, it just feels like im doing meh damage throughout the whole dungeon with no lows and no highs

which, yea, its fine but it doesnt feel good

[analog pawn]

i just swapped over to necrolord, i was curious what necro soulbind is best for assassination rogue for specifically pvp?
ive been finding a lot of contradicting opinions

[limber lion]

I just think there's better ways of doing that instead of frontloading it all into our 3 garrotes

You press the same button 3 times and you do giga damage

That sounds intuitive

[subtle tundra]

better than the monotonous gameplay of SL

[odd heath]

Agreed. On high junkyards it was really fun lol

[limber lion]

Pressing the same button 3 times and doing the majority of your damage with those 3 clicks is better than SL gameplay?

Idk

[wary ice]

SS coulda gave no damage and I'd still miss it

[subtle tundra]

ah yes cause right now doing 4x Garrote and not doing dmg from those is better

[limber lion]

I like Shrouded but it was still dumb.

[wary ice]

I just want full cp after garrote opener

[limber lion]

You're actually having to use your entire kit to do damage instead of a single ability

Imagine having to use more abilities than just one

Boomies couldn't agree

[wary ice]

boomies use their whole kit through proxy.

[limber lion]

I liked SS and expedient, because they revived Exsanguinate which was a lot of fun to play with

[spice spire]

Boomies just use convoke and go get a snack while they wait on convoke to come off CD

[limber lion]

We all like doing mega damage as easily as possible

[wary ice]

exsang build was dope cause it made you look like a champion on prog

when fights only lasted like 90s or whatever you absolutely dominated the bars

[odd heath]

The burst during lust was insane with exsang build

[analog pawn]

does anyone know?

i for real cant find any concrete info on it

[warped temple]

just look up the leaderboards and see what the top 10 rogues are playing

[balmy condor]

we have a #pvp channel

[regal pelican]

Does anyone have a cheatsheet for cd timings for M sludge?

[balmy condor]

pull/pillar 2/pillar 4

super easy

[candid cove]

any ven assa rogues have time to sit down and explain how to do dmg

[balmy condor]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[limber lion]

Farming the easy ones, I see

[analog pawn]

i asked in pvp, no one answered ;-;

[analog pawn]

i know how to do the burst rotation

[regal pelican]

And do you ever want to save shiv before or after a max combo finisher? or it does it not matter just on cd?

[limber lion]

Does not matter, you just press it on cooldown

[regal pelican]

Great thank you

[stiff geyser]

How is sin looking for 9.1? I like playing dark horse classes

[polar cape]

Could roll enhance if you like dark horses <.<

[stiff geyser]

I like rogue class flavor more

[limber swallow]

maybe play a DK. I hear they have dark horses.

[stiff geyser]

More utility and stealth 🥵

[limber swallow]

But srsly tho, Sin is going to be very good in 9.1 unless they last minute tune us to death

[limber lion]

Assassination is looking great, wouldn't exactly call it a dark horse anymore.

[stiff geyser]

Mostly good in raiding scenarios?

[limber lion]

It's most likely going to be one of the meta-specs for melee dps.

It's still lacking in raid utility, but that's about it

It's good in all content.

[odd hazel]

Same as it does now

Great

[stiff geyser]

Cool

I have a 205 outlaw rogue rn so I’ll focus on gearing up

I played WW in nathria but my lord was that a chore

[limber lion]

Assassination is a lot of fun if you enjoy the gameplay

[dawn ivy]

ptr servers are still up, im dissappointed

[limber lion]

[stiff geyser]

Would you guys recommend doom blade if I only feel like crafting one leggo?

[limber swallow]

is your primary content raiding or M+?

[stiff geyser]

If I played sin it would be raiding

[limber swallow]

doomblade is your primary leggo.

[stiff geyser]

If i wanted to M+ I would outlaw

[scarlet oyster]

How is master assassin for sin? Playing sub but wanting to build a catch all for outlaw and sin

[balmy condor]

comparisons are in the pins

[alpine latch]

But why?

[stiff geyser]

I think it’s fun in AOE. Idk honestly

If I end up liking sin I’d stick with it

[alpine latch]

Sin is so fluid in m+... Outlaw feels way too hectic

Definitely not a fun spec for me

[scarlet oyster]

Wtb soul Ash catch up mechanic so I can actually try diff legendaries on a fresh alt :/

[stiff geyser]

Yeah outlaw is a lot of buttons to press

Let me try sin and see 🙂

[limber swallow]

blizz has you covered in 9.1

[scarlet oyster]

Want it now so I can have stuff for 9.1 already lil

By 9.1 I might have a legendary for each spec....or one spec at Max

[limber swallow]

well, you can always make base level legendaries to try them. The effect doesn't change with item level, just the stats

[balmy anvil]

so im not sure if im using simc and pawn correctly. i've been resimming and getting new weights for every new piece of gear, and now i'm to the point where with each sim it tells me to switch belts based on the new stat weights

[scarlet oyster]

Still can only average one legendary a week lol

[stoic needle]

stop simming stat weights

just equip whatever sims best

[balmy anvil]

just go off dps?

[stoic needle]

yes

uninstall pawn

be free

[balmy anvil]

thanks, so when im looking at new pieces dont bother simming wieghts?

[limber swallow]

that'd have me equipping mastery this week.. and I cannot validate you.

[scarlet oyster]

Top gear sim profit

[stoic needle]

[limber lion]

You sim Top gear.

And only top gear.

Don't touch anything else.

[stoic needle]

the truth will set you free

[limber lion]

You can use Droptimizer if you're a RaidBots premium user

But nothing else.

[dawn ivy]

yeah the truth of shadow banning @stoic needle

[limber swallow]

but I lose so much crit.. and I love crit.. crit is my friend! I'm so full of crit!

[balmy anvil]

i have the actual simulation craft desptop app thing

[spice spire]

Or have someone else with premium do it for you

[stoic needle]

[limber lion]

Yeah stop.

Right now

no one uses that anymore

[balmy anvil]

lol

[limber lion]

That's old school

[visual prairie]

i forked it and build it with my changes

[balmy anvil]

the site does the same thing?

[limber lion]

People used that in Mists of Pandaria

No

The site does everything better

You don't have top gear in SimC.

[visual prairie]

i get 8 combo points in my sims

[balmy anvil]

i havent played since wrath, getting caught up on all the new lingo and sims is confusing

[limber lion]

Just uninstall the program

And only use Raidbots

For everything

And always

[spice spire]

Yeah raidbots is absolute gold

[limber lion]

Most of the theorycrafters have moved to Raidbots mainly

And only use Simulationcraft's software if Raidbots is down or they need to sim something locally

[balmy anvil]

ok, thanks, so just top gear?

[dawn ivy]

yup

it has user friendly simming tools for basically everything youd want to sim

and if you want to get into the giga nerdy stuff you can do that to with practice

[balmy anvil]

someday

[dawn ivy]

you dont need to sim the nerdy stuff unless youre really trying to theorycraft new shit

[limber lion]

Yes. Gear Compare is fine for comparing individual items that you don't own, but Droptimizer does that way better and gives you more choices right off the bat.

But that's for premium users only.

But just stick to Top Gear for now. It's everything you'll need to get started.

And even further down the line.

[balmy anvil]

should i be using dungeon slice?

[dawn ivy]

for m+, its a reasonable sim

for other classes its kinda akward, but rogue is pretty well designed to actually give you a good idea of how to build

[balmy anvil]

what would sire be? hectic add cleave?

[pine crag]

You guys don't SIM by counting the damage of your ability on a sheet of paper???

[dawn ivy]

i dont want to answer that question incorrectly

[balmy anvil]

my kid used up all my graph paper man, cut me some slack

[stoic needle]

for sire you sim patchwerk

[dawn ivy]

^ is what ive done

[limber lion]

Dungeon Slice is perfectly fine for Rogue for M+ gearing.

[dawn ivy]

and then just kinda feel craft it

[stoic needle]

even though it's not purely patchwerk, the gear that you'd want to use for sire is what you'd get from a patchwerk sim

[limber lion]

You cannot really sim for really specific encounters.

It depends what you want to do on the fight.

[dawn ivy]

sire has enough data that you can just doa patchwerk sim and then go to WCL and see how people are building

[stoic needle]

you can use more aoe oriented talents, like EP and CT, but you wouldn't really change your gear

[pine crag]

Sire is all about p3! Patchwork then

[balmy anvil]

i guess im just terrible on sire, cuz im no where close to patchwerk numbers haha

[dawn ivy]

its a tough fight to get used to

[limber lion]

It's not a patchwork fight.

[dawn ivy]

lots of different damage scenarios

[limber lion]

The closest thing to a patchwork fight in the current tier is Hungering Destroyer.

[balmy anvil]

i can either focus on the fight mechanic or my class rotation stuff, im just not fast enought anymore to manage both very well

[fallen arch]

Give it time

[dawn ivy]

the moment you use a finisher, look around your screen

you know youll be using at least one mutilate/fok to generate

[limber lion]

It gets better with practice.

[balmy anvil]

i think shiv is my biggest roadblock, i either forget it right on cooldown, or use it then have to refresh bleeds partway thru the buff

[stoic needle]

sims are not supposed to be used as an "expected dps on a fight" number

[fallen arch]

Make a wa as reminder

Big cross in your screen so u dont forget shiv

With a crying baby sound

[stoic needle]

it's more of a guideline so you can understand what types of stats will do more damage in certain situations

[balmy anvil]

i have one, i think on sludge im getting better, but then he stomps right when i use it

[stoic needle]

doing a patchwerk sim is not to say " you should do 7.3k dps on every patchwerk fight", it's more to understand that "haste and crit give you more single target damage, mastery gives you more aoe damage" so you can gear accordingly to what you want to do in a specific situation

[balmy anvil]

yea, im not expecting to pull 6k dps on any fight, but when the other rogue in worse gear is doing almost as much damage i know im just messing something up

[fallen arch]

But that’s probably not having to refresh bleeds during shiv

[amber mountain]

If we could play as perfectly as a simulation, maybe. But yeah, unless you're a machine, or the Sim isn't taking something major into account, you're not going to hit those numbers against a like for like fight.

[limber lion]

Not even then.

Sims are a result and average of 10 000+ iterations. They have highs and lows.

And they don't take into account any outside factors or mechanics.

[limber lion]

You can send us your logs and we'll review them and help you out.

[balmy anvil]

how would i do that? i just check logs that my gm puts in

[limber lion]

Just send us a link to those logs

Assuming they're public

[balmy anvil]

i think so

[cerulean nest]

top logs on council I'm seeing split pretty evenly between vigor + EP and BS+DS. I tried the latter the first week and it felt shitty, switched to vigor+EP and it was better, but now into week 3 im way more comfortable with the fight and can probably execute either one. you think BS + DS would be the better move?

[limber lion]

For padding purposes, EP/Vig will always pull ahead.

And honestly on Council it's probably the better choice if you're keeping bleeds up on a secondary target (as you should be)

[cerulean nest]

yeah I am

the amount of movement/positioning happening during the fight makes it tough to keep 100% uptime on all 4 bleeds though, pretty annoying

[odd hazel]

I’m assuming you get targeted by mechanics a lot

Wait what’s the extra mechanic for mythic ?

[cerulean nest]

a normal amount. but our tanks are taunting everything around and sometimes it's a matter of walking through stavros etc. to reach that second target to refresh or something

its just not as simple as hunstman lol at least the way my group moves

[odd hazel]

Oof you should speak about that to your tanks

They shouldn’t be having people walk through stav

[cerulean nest]

they try not to, like when the dance partners happen they literally move stav way outside the raiid then bring him back, but if he's my second target that means the bleeds can fall off

its just a lot of movement in general, small scale and just positioning in general

[odd hazel]

Ahh that’s fair

[hollow river]

Yeah I find myself getting rushed by stav every once in a while because of position

If I’m trying to keep bleeds on him because 1 boss is down

[cerulean nest]

dpsing him in general just blows

constantly moving out of range for 3 seconds

[hollow river]

But a lot of tanks these days can do no wrong, so

[cerulean nest]

yeah i mean ours arent being high and mighty, i personally just dont know jack about tanking or what they're dealing with so I cant really speak up about it lmao

[balmy anvil]

man these look really awful... https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/darkspear/kittiechan#

[slender berry]

i wonder if the bis slots for your legendaries change because of the new sockets in the new raid

[alpine latch]

It very much will

[hollow river]

We’re all here to get better

[spice spire]

One big thing I’m noticing (Cev post incoming) is that you’re missing ambush casts. Ambush is pretty big in terms of damage and should be used on CD as often as possible.

But also Cev is about to do a huge reply filled with a lot of useful tips. But that’s the main thing in the couple of fights that I turned into (shriek, hungering, Inerva)

[alpine latch]

Cev just tells me to "git gud kid" and pats me on the head

It helps a lot

Sometimes it's the small things, you know?

[balmy anvil]

now that my gm is bringing his rogue i feel obligated to git gud lol

[spice spire]

He usually goes pretty in depth when people post logs

[alpine latch]

Yeah, I was joking. Cev has helped me a lot

[balmy anvil]

should i be ambushing as soon as it procs? as long as im not at 4+ cps right

[spice spire]

I figured you were - I’ve just not interacted enough to be sure 😅

[limber lion]

I'm taking a look at your best Hungering Devourer log here.

1. Do not use Mutilate at max-1 or max combo points. Always finish at max-1.

2. You overcap energy a lot. Whenever you get mechanics, make sure to energy starve yourself before running out so you get energy back during the mechanic instead of capping it.

3. You sometimes let your garrote/rupture drop. Make sure to have them up at all times and never let them drop. Are you aware of the pandemic mechanic?

4. You're missing several Shiv casts. Make sure to cast it on cooldown.

5. Your opener is very flawed. Make sure to study your openers and get them perfected. It's a really easy thing to change and get better at.

6. You should be using cooldowns more efficiently and effectively. On your HD log you used your first Vendetta at 30s in and Vanish at 21s in. You ALWAYS want to sync these up. They're both 2 minute cooldowns. You use Vendetta first, then you Shiv and only then you Vanish. Make sure to read up on the rotations a bit, because you're missing a lot of really important things here.

I'll take a look at your most recent Huntsman log as well to see how you perform in 2-targets.

[balmy anvil]

i thought opener is supposed to be garrote >slice>mut>mut>rupture? thats what ive been trying to do more recently

[limber lion]

No, that is completely incorrect.

Like 100%

You don't open with garrote

You use your cooldowns much earlier

[spice spire]

A. Oh no - it’s not.
B. Opener extends beyond that.

You could probably count our opener as the first 15 or so buttons we press

[balmy anvil]

even with the talent that makes garrote stronger from stealth? i know my cds are a mess

[violet hemlock]

Ooh thats news for me too as I did my opener of the best Assassination logs...

[spice spire]

You should be using master assassin for single target

[balmy anvil]

ah

[balmy condor]

[limber lion]

That's one of the things I was about to write about on your Huntsman review

[balmy condor]

What we doin boys

[limber lion]

But you should definitely be looking at what other people are using

[spice spire]

Log review papi

[dawn ivy]

makin fun of someone getting log reviewed

[balmy condor]

Oh fun

[limber lion]

We do not use Subterfuge in single target (or well, at all)

[dawn ivy]

wants to better himself

[limber lion]

We only use Subterfuge in M+ scenarios pretty much.

The current tier doesn't really go well with Subterfuge.

[spice spire]

And by that - I mean I said vanish more and Cev gave full advice

[balmy condor]

I can’t imagine wanting to be better

[spice spire]

That’s because you’re peak rogue

[balmy condor]

With a coherent emote scheme too

[spice spire]

I do enjoy that

[violet hemlock]

Muta -> SnD -> garrote -> build to 4/5 -> flag -> rupture -> vendetta -> Shiv -> vanish -> Muta and Envenoms in MA. Is that atleast some what correct? AS that is what Ive seen others do.

[balmy condor]

mut snd mut

then the gar flag rup

[balmy anvil]

im necro

[balmy condor]

you don't want to garrote during MA

[balmy anvil]

womp womp

[balmy condor]

if you're necro

[spice spire]

Just missing the mut there

[balmy condor]

you would sbs snd mut

[limber lion]

So, summed up @balmy anvil

1. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/26#class=Rogue&spec=Assassination Go here and look at what the other rogues are doing on the fights and then copy them. You should sim yourself using Raidbots for more accurate info, but just copying what the MAJORITY of the top players are doing is a great starting point for now. Very important to use what the majority are using and not what the #1 log is using, because usually the very best logs are filled with some cheese mechanics or something else which you will not be using.

2. Open up the logs and take a look at their rotations. I would also suggest you read up on a guide at !guide to get familiar with the rotation that way.

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[violet hemlock]

aaah gotcha

[limber lion]

You're missing a lot of very obvious things for now.

[violet hemlock]

also is it better to build to 5 before the vendetta or does it not matter

[balmy condor]

doesn't matter

[spice spire]

You’ve said this a million times by now but first stinky boi raid. After initial sbs save the rest of charges for gemstone windows correct?

[balmy condor]

ye

[limber lion]

You proc Gemstones immediately in the beginning

[spice spire]

Ty papis

[limber lion]

So you would just dump right away

[balmy condor]

sbs prio is

1. dotting
2. gemstone
3. preventing overcap

in that order

[alpine latch]

By the way - if you're Necro, you open with SBS and not Mutilate

[spice spire]

Thank you

[dawn ivy]

wait i thought you dont sbs-snd off the rip

thought you wanted to sbs-mut-snd

[alpine latch]

I didn't say you SBS/SnD

I just said you SBS out of stealth

[spice spire]

Whispyr did

[violet hemlock]

Also to that guy who started this convo might wanna check wowanalyzer for some guidelines even tho the rogue one isnt too up to date greta for showing cooldown windows

[spice spire]

Iirc rule is to not go snd on one

Wow analyzer has been sketch this xpac

[limber lion]

HARD disagree

Wowanalyzer is REALLY BAD

[balmy anvil]

well my first mistake is taking an m+ talent build to raid

[limber lion]

You're much better off just coming in here

[violet hemlock]

Ye I use it to compare all my cd windows

[limber lion]

And getting help from us.

[violet hemlock]

I noticed that the tips werent great

[limber lion]

Well your M+ talent build is not exactly up to par either then

Because you don't play Blindside in M+

[alpine latch]

According to the Patchwerk sim, you SBS ->Mut -> SnD -> Garrote -> Pot -> SBS -> SBS -> Rupture -> Vendetta -> Shiv -> Vanish -> Mut

[dawn ivy]

wowanalyzer looks at logs as if its a patchwerk fight and yells at you for dropping bleeds on shriekwing

[balmy condor]

wowanalyzer is gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarbage

someone is apparently updating it

maybe

perhaps

[alpine latch]

WA is great, but it's programmatic

[limber lion]

It's so bad, don't use it

Honestly

[alpine latch]

WA doesn't take into account if a boss is untargettable, because it can't.

[limber lion]

You'll get much better information from here

[violet hemlock]

Well its also kinda required by my gm to atleast look at it tho I have told him its not great for rogues

[dawn ivy]

oh thats

[balmy condor]

I mean it definitely can

[limber lion]

Your GM is a dummy then

[dawn ivy]

rough

[limber lion]

Also how would he know whether or not you looked at it?

[dawn ivy]

your guild could be suffering if theyre all using WA lol