assassination

[gusty mirage]

@balmy condor wanna fill in for my client meeting at 3?

[balmy condor]

aight let me do the talking..
"your honor my client could never have committed this crime, he's way too stupid"

[gusty mirage]

you'd make a good attorney

only have to tweak the last bit with some fancy words

[balmy condor]

He has way severe pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis

[craggy oak]

Flex

[gusty mirage]

you're hired

[stoic needle]

Could that new apl change make pb slightly less worse in aoe?

[balmy condor]

nah

it also makes CT stronger

so

[stoic needle]

How so?

[balmy condor]

more CT's

pre-pandemic CT's are kinda fine turns out

[stoic needle]

[gusty mirage]

MOAR

[balmy condor]

not full spam

but like

just more

[stoic needle]

Oh baby are we entering the CT spam era?

[gusty mirage]

seems like its clipping the dot earlier than pandemic rather than spam

[balmy condor]

yeh

[dim ledge]

which fights if any in mythic would you use outlaw for over assassination assuming no cheese dps farming strats

[balmy condor]

slg

[dim ledge]

its hard to get a read from just checking rankings on wowlogs because theyre often farming dps with outlaw

[gusty mirage]

council for sanity purposes if your guild can't strafe in a circle and SLG

[dim ledge]

ty

[stoic needle]

So what timer on it are we refreshing now?

[balmy condor]

not sure yet

[hollow river]

How does outlaw help with this?

[gusty mirage]

if they're geometrically challenged, acrobatic strikes is a godsend

[hollow river]

Gotcha lol

[stoic needle]

Is it more than half the duration or is it just a few seconds earlier?

[balmy condor]

few seconds

right now its 2 (basically pandemic) on 1-5 targets, and 3 for 5+

[stoic needle]

Facts

And hook can save you from wiping

[gusty mirage]

[balmy condor]

but it's looking like instead of 3, 5-6 sec seems pretty gud

[stoic needle]

That's actually sick

[scarlet spade]

vers/crit for finality?

[gusty mirage]

my misplays are a dps gain?

[balmy condor]

yes, but wrong channel homie

[scarlet spade]

whoops

[hollow river]

[stoic needle]

Is that seconds earlier from pandemic or seconds on the cd?

[limber lion]

[balmy condor]

seconds from timing out

[scarlet spade]

was a long night sorry..

[stoic needle]

I see

[balmy condor]

in terms of UI design for pandemic since CT is a weird one

can probably just make it glow on 5

and it'll be okay

[stoic needle]

Sweet I'll edit my plater profile

[balmy condor]

[limber swallow]

5-6 seconds means on a 4 point CT, you'd only let it tick for 2 seconds? Does that sound right to you or are we pushing for always using CT at 5/6?

[stoic needle]

So how many bleeds up do you need to have for envenom to be a gain with the new scriptures?

[balmy condor]

4 point would tick for 4-5 seconds in that case

[gleaming tiger]

hi guys

i use https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/character/eu/twisting-nether/phøeníx

this set for m+ but

i think my haste kinda low

[balmy condor]

enough for energy saturation

[limber lion]

Stop.

[balmy condor]

the condition itself checks for energy regen

not bleeds

its similar to the energy from prio rotation

[limber swallow]

am I looking at the wrong wowhead spell? oh.. I'm just having reading comprehension failure.. reading the 3 point duration for 4 points..

[limber lion]

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/character/eu/stormreaver/ceverion
wow look we both have 21% haste :o

[gleaming tiger]

@limber lion sorry i mean my mastery kinda low

[red bloom]

thats some typo

[limber lion]

Even worse

[gleaming tiger]

but i got a friend lower crit than me and has 24 mastery with same ilvl

[gusty mirage]

its 8s for 3cp, 10s for 4cp

[limber swallow]

yea, i got it.. I'm just failing at normal life behavior today

[gusty mirage]

I've been there

[limber swallow]

It's pretty normal for me... Most days I just roll with it..

[gusty mirage]

I couldn't type or speak english this past wednesday

somewhere between my brain and my mouth/hands there was a severe disconnect

[stoic needle]

Aha so my jank bleed tracker weakaura is actually useful in aoe

[balmy condor]

kinda?

it doesn't actually change our thinking process much

like if you're in sustained aoe

and you're at energy saturation (I'll call it esat cause I can't be fucked)

you're still slamming ruptures

the only thing the esat does is up the TTD needed to hit a rupture

so like rupturing sire p1 adds, still good

rupturing sire p2 adds, still good, even if they die fast

but something like rupturing attendants when you don't need the energy

technically bad

it's a specific niche situation where you would want to rupture things that die fast, or will die soon, but you don't care for the energy, so you hit an envenom instead

[hollow river]

So we’ll basically be doing no envenoms in aoe

[balmy condor]

we already don't

[hollow river]

Refreshing SnD >:)

[balmy condor]

well yeah

that's still a thing

[limber lion]

#removesnd

[pliant apex]

for vendetta combined with vanish, i need to be at 4-5 cp before casting vendetta?

[balmy condor]

no

[hollow river]

O: I tend to do that

[limpid quest]

Hi is lashing scars still the best potency conduit? for assasin for raid

[limber lion]

For Venthyr, yes.

[limpid quest]

ty

[hollow river]

We rupture p1 ads? O.o

[balmy condor]

there's always a straggler you can hit yeah

all it need is a couple seconds for it to be worth

[pliant apex]

oh then how to use ?

[balmy condor]

you just vendetta

and vanish

without forcing yourself to 4-5 cp

[pliant apex]

oh ok, so spend those cp first

if i have them?

[balmy condor]

no

just use it

you don't have to think about cp

[stoic needle]

It would've been nice to know when I was doing slg prog ngl

[balmy condor]

just use the ability

[pliant apex]

ok, use irrespective of cp, gotcha thanks

[hollow river]

Would it be worth running DS on say council or slg as necro?

[lunar elm]

i have a few questions regarding assass and doomblade

[teal bloom]

Why has the api used CT when it has 2 seconds left instead of when the pandemic window starts? Or did i understand correctly

[plain onyx]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[limber lion]

Maybe. I ran DS as Necro and got r1, so it definitely works. Just sim yourself for different kind of situations and make the choice.

[stoic needle]

If by DS you mean deeper stratagem yes

[limber lion]

Go ahead.

[limber lion]

It doesn't really matter when you reapply, as long as you do it before the bleed drops.

[lunar elm]

so does Bottled Flayedwing Toxin and Phial of Putrefaction increase the damage done by envemom when using doomblade?

[stoic needle]

Deeper strat has a nice qol of letting your dots drop off a few seconds later which gives you more time to play around mechanics

A rupture lasts about the full duration of a skirmisher spawn for example

So like If you rupture a general and a Goliath right before the skirmishers spawn you won't have to refresh theirs until the skirmishers are mostly dead

[limber lion]

No.

[lunar elm]

But the necro ability does right?

[limber lion]

They are not bleeds even to begin with.

Yes, SBS is counted as a bleed.

[plain onyx]

Should I still be going with Zoldyck for M+ rather than Dashing Scoundrel ?

[limber lion]

And so are garrote, rupture, ct and mutilated flesh.

[limber lion]

Yes

[plain onyx]

10x

[teal bloom]

@limber lion yeah I was just wondering if there was anything behind that 2 seconds or if it's just an arbitrary number within the pandemic window

[lunar elm]

I was thinking of rerolling from Venthyr to Necro cuz they seem fairly similar in ST but Necro seems better in M+ and cleave situations

[limber lion]

Definitely. Theotar is only good for the Theotar potion abuse

[lunar elm]

I play Nadja tho

[strange python]

Pretty noob question here, would you guys recommend assassination or outlaw for a new melee player focusing on running keys around the 15 to 18 range? Swapping from heals to melee for our group and didn't know which would be easier to pick up.

[limber lion]

Yes, everyone does.

That's the whole point of the potion abuse lol

[limber lion]

Outlaw is definitely easier to pick up and get up to par.

[lunar elm]

Whats the potion abuse?

[limber lion]

Assassination is easier in ST, Outlaw is easier in aoe.

[limber lion]

You swap to Theotar with Refined Palate, you use a pre-potion before the encounter then swap back to Nadja before pulling.

That way you get the increased potion duration from Theotar on top of the whole Nadja soulbind tree.

[lunar elm]

oh interesting

Would you recommend staying Venthyr for Mythic Prog or swapping necro ok

cuz i feel like my envenoms arent hitting hard at all

and you get a second potency for necro

[stoic needle]

You don't use double potency for necro

[limber lion]

Swapping to necro.

You don't use second pot

Also, why do you care about your Envenom damage?

[stoic needle]

Because he's a man of culture

[lunar elm]

So in my guild we have to venth assass and one necro

and my envenoms dmg is usually lower than theirs

[limber lion]

Sure

But why does that matter?

[lunar elm]

I just feel like im not pulling my weight

[limber lion]

How does your Envenom damage have anything to do with that?

Feel free to enlighten me

[lunar elm]

Most of the time theres a 30% dmg difference between my envs and theirs not too sure why

[sonic schooner]

🤔

[lunar elm]

And i thought envenom was the main source of dmg

[limber lion]

Here's my Envenom damage on an encounter.

Here's someone else's.

[stoic needle]

They have more mastery or better envenom uptime than you

[limber lion]

Guess which one is rank 1 and which one is rank 50

The one that did 500k with Envenom

Or me who did 300k

[balmy condor]

well since you're a shitter, I'm gonna say you're the rank 50

[limber lion]

Exactly

[balmy condor]

[gusty mirage]

GOT EM

[limber lion]

But yeah, it doesn't matter whatsoever

Look at your dps

[limber lion]

And your parse

And your ranking

[lunar elm]

here one of our pulls on inerva

[limber lion]

Not your Envenom damage

Listen

There's 2 things that I don't spend my time on

[sonic schooner]

Just press envenom harder to do more dmg

[limber lion]

1. Damage breakdowns

2. Secondary stats

And neither should you

[stoic needle]

Maybe they have better bleed uptime than you

[lunar elm]

I thought secondary stats were important

[stoic needle]

Giving them more energy to do dmg

[sonic schooner]

Sbs gives envenom 5% more dmg with doomblade as well? Right?

[balmy condor]

yuh

[limber lion]

Maybe you should start by reading the pins, homeboy

[gusty mirage]

ABSED

[balmy condor]

get lagged on

[sonic schooner]

Nice photoshop whispyr

[stoic needle]

One person doing 43k with a phantom fire vs 2 others doing 20k and 10k

[sonic schooner]

That was a quick one

[gusty mirage]

damn I can't even discord properly

[limber lion]

@lunar elm You wanna destroy your assa friend in dps?

Just do the Theotar potion trick

And you win

[slow marsh]

truuuuuuuuu

[balmy condor]

graphic design is my passion

[limber lion]

Assuming that they don't.

[gusty mirage]

it's beautiful

[sonic schooner]

Woah professional use of Paint

[gusty mirage]

how'd you get your text in black? @sonic schooner

TELL US YOUR SECRETS

[balmy condor]

discord why

[stoic needle]

AS?

[sonic schooner]

I might send it as well

With some french because why not

[balmy condor]

[gusty mirage]

I tried finding a second S, I was unsuccessful

this is my failure

[warped temple]

[sonic schooner]

Use a 5 instead of a S

[gusty mirage]

@balmy condor you didn't show up to the meeting 😦

also looks like I'm suing a PD soon

[hollow river]

Ok cuz I see a lot of the higher logs use ep vigor for any aoe/ad based bosses but I assume that’s mainly vemthyr as I haven’t looked in depth

[limber lion]

He's talking about DS for SLG in particular.

[gusty mirage]

oh

forgive me

[limber lion]

But yeh, DS is actually really good for SLG as Necro because you get max amount of combo points with SBS every time.

And you have plenty of energy regen from having 4 bleeds up at all times from having 2+ targets available at all times.

Sims better for me, but could be different for you.

[hollow river]

Hi xarth (:

[hollow river]

I believe I am one of the other rogues on this inerva pull

@limber lion thank you

[upper skiff]

Hey guys, how is FAE compare to Venthyr in 9.1 is it a viable choice ?

[frail fossil]

in 9.1 who knows but u can find a 9.0.5 sim comparison of every covenant in the pin 😉

[balmy condor]

fae just doesn't seem good

if you want to play it because you love fae

go for it I guess

but it's just worse

[upper skiff]

Alright ty 🙂

[strange python]

I miss soul shape

[shy dust]

Dont we all

[limber lion]

[sonic schooner]

Soulshape is such a cool and useful ability

😔

[pure moth]

It was definitely handy

[dawn ivy]

i kinda dislike soulshape because of how strong it is

[pure moth]

I had to use my mount to get around rather than soul shape short distances lol

[dawn ivy]

it makes being necro/venthyr feel a little worse

[sonic schooner]

For transmog run soulshape is so cool

[gloomy knoll]

soulshape is bae

i miss it every day

[tiny dagger]

Doomblade on gloves or shoulders?

[shy dust]

gloves

[tiny dagger]

ty

[loud trench]

What is easier to manage, since they are similar, the necro bonespike or flag currently in M+/CN. Swapping back to rogue next tier and currently fae so will be swapping

[dawn ivy]

necro takes a second to get used to but personally feels better than flag

but flag is press on cd and doesnt change any form of rotation

[wise fiber]

So what would be ideal for pushing higher keys (19s) in tyrannical ? Zoldyck? maybe doomblade? Nadja with dauntless duelist?

[stoic needle]

Zoldyck, still theotar, or nadjia with exacting preparation

[gloomy knoll]

zdicks, nadjia with 2 potencies

is good

[wise fiber]

Ty Guys.

[orchid valley]

Can someone who’s done it explain the whole melee baiting dealio on m sludgefist

[rugged sandal]

on sire prog is pb or ct better

[balmy condor]

CT usually

[rugged sandal]

ok

i feel like pb can get missed with boss movement

[balmy condor]

yeh

if you run zoldyck (for the p3 damage), CT is actually surprisingly close, even without the movement

so with the movement, it's pretty much just the move

[dark crag]

Melee baiting?

That sounds so wrong

[young fable]

Hello, i’m mainly outlaw but curious to try some m+ as sin, how viable to do it as a Keryian with Deathly Shadows : )?

[orchid valley]

Sorry, was just looking at kill vids for a few guilds and the rubbles from the charges are getting baited by the melee players away from the rest of the raid. I think I get it just from staring for like 20 mins

[compact pumice]

I wouldn't recommend kyrian nor Deathly Shadows even as Outlaw, but definitely not as Assa!

For M+ recommended is Zoldyck's and Necrolord

[dark crag]

Melees stick to boss. It's more like the ranges have to care about the rubbles

[young fable]

I tried necro and really didn’t like it, i like Keryian and 9.1 new soulbinds seems great. But why not DS if i might ask?

[dark crag]

As melee you try to attack sludge from outside without wasting uptime if the rubbles are a problem

[compact pumice]

9.1 really is good for Necro though, especially with then new Necro legendary if it isn't nerfed. But if you like Kyrian go ahead, no one's stopping you!

Deathly Shadows is kind of like a 2 minute MFD (well it's around 1 minute as Outlaw but still, MFD is like 25s as outlaw so still worse). MA is usually the go to M+ Outlaw leggo. If you play super high keys then Celerity might be more useful, especially if you don't take Killing Spree, but the cutoff point is probably at least 20+ keys before you try to replace MA.

[young fable]

But why i see DS as the most common in top logged outlaw runs? sure the other 2 are there but not as common. Asking cuz I don’t know really, i made celerity and the DS, i liked the latter more, still don’t have MA and cba chorghast

Especially with thr 9.1 katchups

[stoic needle]

Absolutely not

DS is like a 300+ dps loss for sin in dungeon slice, it's terrible

[compact pumice]

It's James (Jpc) and the Chinese rogues who actually WCL log, and he copied the Chinese meta with DS and prefers it for really high keys. Even though it sims worse and there's no proof or justification on paper why it's better AFAIK. But anyway, they are playing very high keys, the highest in retail normal servers in fact, and what they do don't necessarily translate to what you do at 16-17s or whatever.

It takes like 7 minutes for a run as a rogue, you need to do two per week and MA is probably the most versatile legendary for rogues for solo play and PvP (though this will change in next patch probably ).

[compact pumice]

^

[stoic needle]

For the average person DS is just a dps loss over MA or celerity

[compact pumice]

When James talked about it on stream it just sounded like he prefers the playstyle, rather than it being more damage or burst (which it isn't). He doesn't recommend other people to run it last I heard.

Basically it's feelcraft

[gloomy knoll]

? it's not like it gets better with skill

is just vanish do more dam for a bit

lol

[stoic needle]

What I mean is like.... A better player is more likely to perform well with a worse legendary than an average player

[gloomy knoll]

oh yea i agree

xd

my bad

is why good players can run absolutely dogshit builds and still time really high keys

keys aren't about hyper optimization

[stoic needle]

High key timing is about not dying

[gloomy knoll]

yea

is more about playing your spec well and doing its jobs while routing / executing the pulls properly

than it is about optimizing your character for that .01%

[gusty mirage]

nah guys you got it all wrong

it just undersims because "the sims don't account for real keys"

the reasons were changed every time it was proven wrong

now we've settled on "it splits AR and vanish"

[royal lantern]

wrong channel

[spice spire]

Is this sub?

[odd hazel]

@stoic needle would we really make dashing on back just because of the gem?

[carmine token]

I cannot believe necro is this fun and nobody told me

but damn is it gonna take some work to remember it actually awards me combo points

[ruby birch]

personally, pressing SBS makes me want to rip my eyeballs out

something about that ability feels so awkward to press

dont get me wrong, i love the damage and CP generation

but the ability honestly feels so bad it makes me play worse

[stoic needle]

Yep

Dashing and doomblade are like less than 100 dps apart

If the gem is worth that you might go dashing

Or maybe it'll be a budget option, who knows

[wispy hazel]

deeper strat or vigor for nathria?

[stoic needle]

Depends on the fight

Ask about a specific one and get an answer

[wispy hazel]

council and sire

[bleak sky]

ds on council and vigor on sire i think

[stoic needle]

DS on both

For prog

EP vigor on sire for parsing

[granite thistle]

So I was trying to do some research. Now I need some help :p I'm swapping to rogue next tier. Getting Doomblade to 235 then making Zoldyck 235. I am thinking of making them on Pants because there is a pair of raid boots that are Heavy haste over crit, but there are also pants off of KT that are Heavy Haste over Crit but obviously higher Item level because KT loot.

Do you think I should make Zold on Pants or Boots? Or just say fuck it and do both just in case?

Edit: KT pants are Crit/Vers. Haste over Crit is a diff boss that isnt increased Ilvl.

[bleak sky]

I'd craft it on the spot that doesn't have the highest ilvl from raid

[stoic needle]

I'd just wait a few more weeks until we know exactly how the domination sockets will work

[bleak sky]

also that

[odd hazel]

i mean, if you have the ash i would create doom atleast

then save all your ash

only 2 more dungeons for KSM.....i better not get another 15 SD keystone tuesday

[alpine latch]

Do you guys change up talents on ToP?

Or just run the standard m+ with EP/Sub/CT?

[odd hazel]

i just use the standard M+

[spice spire]

I'll run doomblade, and nothing else changes iirc

and that's really just because it's tyrannical

[ornate zodiac]

yo, who has the weakaura that shows all the bleeds on the side

[alpine latch]

yeah, I don't have DB yet. I'll craft that next week

[spice spire]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[spice spire]

is it one of those?

[ornate zodiac]

I'm not sure, I just know Infexious uses it

just started playing rogue again

[gusty mirage]

[odd hazel]

[gusty mirage]

@stoic needle has one that I use, it's pretty good https://wago.io/Lp33X6aon

[dense axle]

Infexious built his own weak auras afaik. You could start with a pack as linked and then move them where you're more comfortable or you could ask him what it would take to get his

[gusty mirage]

he offers them to his subs

[ornate zodiac]

@gusty mirage ty, this is basically what I wanted.

[gusty mirage]

[balmy condor]

Tbf I don’t trust infexious to give me directions to the nearest street corner

His weakauras can stay far away from me

[upper trout]

Some street corners are very complicated

[balmy condor]

Yeah

Some of them aren’t 90 degrees

Really weird

[untold venture]

Hey guys, gals, and non-binary assassinating pals, how good is Sin in M+? I'm trying to pick a singular rogue spec to focus on for M+ & PvP and the outlaw boys said Sin was king in PvP but I don't know how it is in M+. 🙂

[slow marsh]

You can do your weekly 15s and flex just fine in sin

[spice spire]

Sin’s fine in M+. It is not better than outlaw but it’s a fine middle of the pack spec that can absolutely blast in the right hands

[strange python]

whenever i see "x is fine" i automatically translate to "x is not getting invited in pugs and you're probably trolling your team if you guys are trying to push, except maybe like 10 people that have a team to play around the spec"

[balmy condor]

that's the wrong message to get from that

[spice spire]

That’s definitely not the case.

I even said, it’s middle of the pack and can do well. Outlaw is just simply better - but you can still blast.

[young fable]

Thanks 🙏🏻

[old galleon]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[wispy plaza]

Why do assa rogues open with Mutilate over Ambush from stealth ?

playing with doomblade lego not MA

[tropic ocean]

mutilate can award more cp

[craggy oak]

Ambush costs too much energy

Plus mutilate can crit twice

[pure sinew]

!mut

[prisma monolith]

Ambush is currently only used from blindside/sepsis proc, not from stealth.
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3).
Some other factors to consider are increased poison applications, blindside, and doomblade. This is true for all talent combinations and legendaries.

[wispy plaza]

thank you guys !

[misty zenith]

Dang i am doing something wrong. everytime i get to shiv on ST

My rupt and garotte are falling off

[limber lion]

You just need to make sure to think 10s ahead and make sure that they don't fall off during the Shiv window.

But it honestly doesn't matter too much

[dawn pike]

am i dumb or something ? i cant select doomblade to make doomblade lego

[limber lion]

What item are you trying to craft it on?

[plain onyx]

This means that I always have to maintain garrotte and rupture right before pressing Shiv ?

[odd hazel]

do you have the right armor peice inserted

[limber lion]

It's crafted on Hands

[dawn pike]

yea i bought hands

[odd hazel]

are you sure?

[potent rune]

did u buy leather hands?

[limber lion]

Take a screeny of it again

[dawn pike]

umbrahide armguards

[potent rune]

or plate or cloth or mail?

[limber lion]

Armguards

Umbrahide Gauntlets

Are leather gloves

[dawn pike]

yea

[plain onyx]

😆

[limber lion]

Not armguards

[limber lion]

Those are wrists

[odd hazel]

those are wrists

[limber lion]

My boy

[dawn pike]

im pepega thanks

kekw

[plain onyx]

you need Gauntlets/Hands

[dawn pike]

thanks lol

[plain onyx]

re-sell them on AH again

[limber lion]

No worries

[limber lion]

Well not really. It's fine to reapply Rupture/Garrote during Shiv as well

But if you know that your Rupture is entering pandemic a few seconds before Shiv comes off cd, then you'd want to pool for the Rupture so you can press it just before the Shiv

Instead of finishing and then having 0 cp to use Rupture and then having to reapply during the Shiv window

[plain onyx]

👍

On AoE situations, i garrotte up to 4 targets and then FoK, rupture them, do i use envenom on AoE does it affect my poisons/bleeds ?

[pliant apex]

should the finisher after casting flag always be rupture?

[teal bloom]

It doesn't have to be rupture outside the opener

@plain onyx you want to envenom in aoe so that SnD doesn't fall of

[limber lion]

No, you use 4 garrotes then CT. Only then you FoK around and apply Ruptures to everything around you.

You use Envenom to extend SnD, but that's it. It does increase our poison application chance which means more damage with FoK but it's not worth it for just the poison damage.

[limber lion]

No.

[teal bloom]

@limber lion doesn't FoK always apply poisons so it shouldn't be affected by envenom buff? Or did I misunderstand the tooltip "applying your active poisons at their normal rate"

[frosty cedar]

the normal rate being the rate it applies on autos and abilities which isn't 100%

It's like 70 iirc

[teal bloom]

Oh lol

I've thought it meant the normal damage or something

[limber lion]

No, FoK does not always apply poisons.

[teal bloom]

Stone harder than head :(

[pliant apex]

outside opener, it can be envenom too?

[odd hazel]

yes

[half tapir]

Am I better off going for doomblade or zoldyck insignia? I mainly do m+

[quasi ledge]

It's any finisher @pliant apex

[half tapir]

Or should I make both and just switch to whichever is more relevant at the time

[tulip nacelle]

you would never play doomblade on m+

[half tapir]

Didn't think so just wanted to double check

[odd hazel]

i should prob stop being lazy and use zold

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[limber lion]

Yes, doesn't matter which finisher it is.

Rupture, Envenom, CT, Kidney... anything works.

[limber lion]

Zoldyck is the best choice for most (if not all) dungeons. Many people choose to go Doomblade for Theater of Pain and Plaguefall because they have a lot of small packs and are not as dense. (Especially Plaguefall, if you're using the Plagueborer's to kill everything)

[half tapir]

Thank you

[limber lion]

[odd hazel]

Cev.

have you looked at the set bonuses in 9.1 at all?

for the sockets

[stoic needle]

The winds of winter one seems pog to line up with vanish MA+vend

[limber lion]

Not really too much yet. I'll spend more time on them when we know when the patch drops

Don't wanna spend too much time researching stuff that gets changed before it actually gets released

But the sockets overall do seem pretty interesting. :p

[odd hazel]

seems nice

[craggy oak]

Where can i find apl stuff, guides/knowledge so i can start doing my own custom sims n shit so i dont have to ask someone else all the time

[limber lion]

Yeah, that seemed pretty crazy when I first saw it as well

[limber lion]

https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/wiki

[craggy oak]

Tyty

[south geode]

How is sin feeling on ptr?

[sinful cradle]

Same as now

[limber lion]

Pretty much.

Nothing new, nothing crazy.

[weary marten]

Hey guys, what are you thinking about the new venthyr lego ? does it look worth ? we need to wait for sims ?

[odd hazel]

its bad

compared to what we use atleast

its AMAZING for sub

[ruby birch]

[plain onyx]

Necro ftw..

[weary marten]

i don't like necro

pressing button doesn't feel rewarding

[limber lion]

I love Necro. I think it's a very rewarding button especially in aoe

But each to their own

[pure moth]

Necro seems kinda cool. Im not above 30 yet.. but i can see it doing really well

[odd hazel]

its the best for anything above 1 target

[amber mountain]

I've been playing Necro since Friday and... I think i'm in love. Had to work my ass off to get my renown flowing and to finish the campaign so I could get some more survivability, but my god it's fun.

I'm still trying to internalize the rotation changes from Venthyr, and it's cost me some potential DPS, but I'm still in the ballpark of (and in large groups vastly surpassing) what I was doing in Venthyr

[compact pumice]

Pretty much my reaction too.

[sonic schooner]

as a guy playing sub in rbg, sin in raids and arenas , and outlaw in m+, going to necro was such a feelgood

[sacred robin]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[gusty mirage]

its a TON of fun

and I wish I could say that sarcastically lol

@marble hemlock was right all along

[marble hemlock]

[tulip nacelle]

it wasn't that fun when it was a dps loss in aoe

[compact pumice]

Much of the fun comes from not only getting cheap CP but that it crits for like 6k too

[gusty mirage]

neither was the scuffed shitty haste version of ashvane's coral that was known as Flagellation

[odd hazel]

i'll prob switch to necro next patch for when M+ matters again

but

i enjoy the venth for raids/etc.

but if the raid is going to have more then one targets often im torn

[frosty bridge]

Sludge takes increased damage from trinkets during pillar, right?

[odd hazel]

increased damage from everything

[amber mountain]

SBS is a blast in torghast.

some of the anima powers for it are bonkers

[odd hazel]

the funnest i've had in torghast is on a lock with like 5+ infernals on summon

[frosty bridge]

Gonna rotate skulkers and Memory for that juicy parse i guess

[compact pumice]

that 120yd range with 300k crits on SBS

[odd hazel]

that wont net you a parse really, maintaining your CDs properly/etc will.

and hoping you arent chained 9 times in a fight

:^)

[tulip nacelle]

but double on use is the play on sludge

[odd hazel]

fair enough

skulkers would be poggers

[frosty bridge]

Well I'd say that would be the most possible damage for a 95+ parse

[odd hazel]

ive been able to hit one 95 parse on sludge.

[frosty bridge]

Is MFD the play tho? 🤔

[odd hazel]

nah

[frosty bridge]

Probably not aye

[odd hazel]

got my best parse at 215 ilvl. 6.4k with Phial/decanter. and BS/DS

95

i think i never got chained though for that parse

[frosty bridge]

I swear I see vigor up on every parse but I don't think i ever got it to sim higher than DS

[odd hazel]

thats what people say all the time here but it never sims higher for me

[frosty bridge]

Not as venthyr not as necro

[gloomy fern]

its more forgiving and secure more finishers on pillars

[frosty bridge]

Sounds about right, but I mean in general

[gloomy fern]

on pure st which u are prolly simming ds+bs is prolly top

on most

[odd hazel]

im curious now

[frosty bridge]

Yeah, specifically on ST it probably is

[odd hazel]

gonna sim vigor with EB

[frosty bridge]

Makes sense that vigor + EB is better on more targets

[odd hazel]

im curious on the difference of my sim though

[gloomy fern]

im not

[odd hazel]

i sim at 6,543 with BS+DS
And 6,079 with Vigor + EB

oof

[frosty bridge]

DAmn

6670 DS+BS for me, 6501 Vigor + EB

[gloomy fern]

you are 100% doing something wrong if u get 500 dps diff

[odd hazel]

even worse with just EP + DS

thats what it says for me ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[frosty bridge]

Hmmm, 200 ilvl WPS vs 226 Fractured on sludge? WPS should be more burst but the ilvl diff?

[gloomy fern]

and why are u calling elaborate planning eb

[odd hazel]

shh, never said i was a bright person

[dark crag]

I have like 50dps difference at 228 with 7180 with bs+ds

[gloomy fern]

well this guy removed his dagger and swapped talents or something

[amber mountain]

Elaborate Blanning FTW!

[odd hazel]

its a 50 dps difference, found out why lmao.

wonder why 90% of people go BS/DS then

figured more would go the easier way for only a 50 dps loss

[dark crag]

Because it sims best

[hybrid cradle]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[amber mountain]

I have vigor, because i'm too sloppy for DS to be a DPS gain 🙂

[dusty frost]

When exactly do u refresh bleeds? Right after last tick with a risk of a minimal downtime or at last 2-3 seconds?

[gloomy fern]

in pandemic window

[amber mountain]

so any time after Feb/March 2020?

[tulip nacelle]

so you're talking heroic?

[odd hazel]

Yeah, sadly my guild never progressed into mythic

im gonna attempt to see if i can pug into some but reality is i dont need much even from mythic, until later bosses

[balmy condor]

!pd

[prisma monolith]

Pandemic takes up to 30% of the duration of a applied dot/buff and adds it to your new applied one. The duration depends on the new instance.
Example: Garrote (18 sec) can be extended by up to 5.4 seconds from an existing instance.
Note: Pandemic applies to most but not all debuffs/buffs

[nimble tartan]

!mnp

[royal lantern]

what is mnp supposed to mean

[rose narwhal]

Does Zoldyk legendary affect bonespike bleed?

[winter vapor]

from my small amount of testing, yes

[nimble tartan]

mind numbing poison

[winter vapor]

not sure it affects the 'double' dot from the soulbind thing but

[rose narwhal]

interesting, thanks

[tulip nacelle]

it does

[wind dune]

https://gyazo.com/1266904ed57b855fcd84ea837baa5c41 stinkee mages

[stoic needle]

Seems like there are only 2 single target fights next tier

[stoic needle]

WPS on sludge even at the lower ilvl

[queen rampart]

@stoic needle big sadge

I like single target all out nukes haha

[dark jewel]

tips to parse on slg? its been 3 weeks on farm and my parse is always average lol

[shy dust]

Then guardian of the first ones got yah covered

[shy dust]

Be necro

[dark jewel]

[odd hazel]

tbh, a little bit of luck and aligning CDs correctly.

[dark jewel]

where should cds be aligning?

[odd hazel]

First pillar, 3rd pillar.
( dontk now if mythic is different but )

[shy dust]

That’s sludge

[odd hazel]

wait

[shy dust]

He meant slg

[odd hazel]

fuc

im dumb

[dark jewel]

lol

[odd hazel]

BUT

i can answer that too.

[uneven plume]

What’s the luck part on sludge tho? Lol

[odd hazel]

Make sure you always benefit fully with your CDs, dont accidentally use a vendetta on the boss when its immune. Make sure to keep Bleeds rolling on both the boss/gloiath as possible.

Hope you dont have to run wicked blades/eruptions to often. Also hope that you arent the one soaking as well. Dont get stunned by the soak if you dont need to get rid of a bleed.

[odd hazel]

Getting chains 19 times in one fight feels bad. always feels like you lose some precious time on pillars.

[uneven plume]

I think you get chained in mythic no matter what

[tulip nacelle]

yea

[odd hazel]

Yeah, i have no experience there sadly

[tulip nacelle]

ppl talking about parsing are usually talking mythic not heroic

[dark jewel]

yeah thats no help lol

[plucky zodiac]

hi guys, on sire mythic on how many adds you spread dots?

[odd hazel]

im assuming its the bit of the same though. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

but

hope i somewhat helped atleast.

[odd hazel]

Yeah, making sure your bleeds are awlays rolling on both

dont know the mythic strat but im sure its about the same.

[stoic needle]

Yes and no

You want to keep bleeds up on the goliath and the boss

Refresh them before every skirmisher spawn, similar like you'd do on sludgefist before a pillar

[odd hazel]

oh right, mythic has those extra adds.

[stoic needle]

Pool cp to CT when adds spawn

You can rupture the last few skirmishers to spawn as they live the longest, don't bother with the first few

But mostly you're just zugging the goliath

[thin trout]

when do i use flaggelation on sludgefist mythic? 1st and 3rd? or can i use it on pull, 2nd and 4th

[stoic needle]

Pull/2/4 if your guild lusts on 4

[undone eagle]

Is necro rly good for assa now? For pvp & pve

[rain mortar]

Yea

For both

[undone eagle]

I do on pull + 2nd & 4th

I time all my good cds with it

[rain mortar]

SBS leggo going to break CC like sap/sheep/blind?

[undone eagle]

So i guess its more worth to go necro now instead of venthyr?

[dawn ivy]

venthyr is still king for ST

[undone eagle]

Also considerig going sub for pvp only, necro is also good for sub?

[limber lion]

Really depends on the strat. Not everyone is advised to just blast the Goliath.

[dawn ivy]

pure ST venthyr is a bit ahead of necro like 80 dps

[stoic needle]

I would be suprised if someone brought an assassination rogue to slg and told them to purely aoe XD

[undone eagle]

Yeah but is this only for pve?

[limber lion]

No, but I'm just everything on the boss

Not on the goliath.

And so are most others.

You need to phase the boss before the second Goliath dies for most strats

[undone eagle]

So basically I wanna go assa for pve & sub for PvP , is necro better choice for me then? (Im venthyr atm)

[limber lion]

There is no point whatsoever just nuking the goliath's mindlessly

[limber lion]

For now. Venthyr is bis for Sub in 9.1

[undone eagle]

And venthyr assa is bis for 9.1?

PvE wise

[limber lion]

Necro is most likely.

[stoic needle]

Well I did say that you rupture and ct skirmishers

[thin trout]

tnx 🙂

[undone eagle]

So i go necro i guess, cuz ill do more pve than pvp

[stoic needle]

And obviously you help break shields in the intermissions

[thin trout]

staying venthyr for now, but if the legendary stays at it is im definately going necrolord

[limber lion]

Yes. But you always say that you blast the Goliath whenever someone asks about SLG here.

Literally every time

Which is just incorrect.

It's literal misinformation

Have you killed the boss on Mythic yourself?

[stoic needle]

What? Yes, that's what my job was during prog

[limber lion]

Or are you just mindlessly spreading things that you thing are correct?

[stoic needle]

Goliath and boss damage

[limber lion]

Exactly.

[stoic needle]

We're on sire prog rn

[limber lion]

For you

Not for everyone

It's like someone asking about where to use Vendetta's on Sire

And you say "just use it on CD on the boss"

because you might do that strat

But it's just not correct for others.

[dawn ivy]

@rain mortar just checked on PTR, blind and sap doesnt get broken

[limber lion]

You need to specify it

[dawn ivy]

only one spike went out

[limber lion]

Slamming all cds on the Goliath is rarely worth it these days. It's only necessary if you're lacking cleave damage and it doesn't die quick enough.

You need to phase the boss before it dies for most strats.

You telling everyone to just use all cds and full focus on the Goliath will fuck them in the ass.

[stoic needle]

Everything I've read and what I experienced is that phasing the bosses on slg is almost never an issue for most groups

[limber lion]

I just looked through 5 logs

And on every single log

They use CDS on Kaal

You're just incorrect in what you're saying.

[stoic needle]

It's all about getting the specific adds down at timings where it doesn't line up poorly with other mechanics

[limber lion]

Exactly

So why don't you specify that?=

[stoic needle]

I always tell people to vendetta first on kaal and the second on a Goliath in the intermission

[limber lion]

You bursting the Goliath down and then getting Wicked Blades on top of it will fuck your group in the ass

[stoic needle]

So that the CDs line up properly

[limber lion]

"Full focusing the Goliath" is not advised for most groups.

A lot of groups will switch their targets around depending on boss/add health

Like

Just specify it man

Don't tell everyone to just slam the Goliath

[stoic needle]

I just spend more time attacking the Goliath than the boss in times that aren't an intermission that's why I characterize it that way

[limber lion]

Just because you do it

Sure

but I don't

Am I doing it wrong then?

[stoic needle]

Not necessarily? I don't say that there aren't other approaches that work

[limber lion]

Never have I heard you saying that there are either.

All I've heard is

"bleeds on both, ct on skirmishers, full blast Goliath"

every time

Like 3+ times now

[stoic needle]

Why am I responsible for telling everyone about every possible strategy to kill a boss?

[limber lion]

It's completely fine if you do it, but just don't assume that everyone does the same strategy and does it the same way than you

You don't even say

"I do this strategy"

You say

"Do this strat"

You don't specify that it's the strat that you use

You just put it very very very generally and say

"This is the strategy that you need to do"

Which is just incorrect.

Just specify it more or think about your words.

[limber lion]

"In my group I'm assigned to just zug the goliath, so that's what I do. You should talk with your rl and come to a conclusion in which target(s) you should be focusing on"

^ That's a better way to phrase what you said there.

[stoic needle]

Isn't that just basic to raiding though

Who just picks a strategy off the internet and does it without talking to their raid leader about it first

[limber lion]

???

99.99% people

[dawn ivy]

thats a bad take

[limber lion]

That's so awful

what

I don't talk to my raid leader and ask "which target should I focus?" "where should I use my cds?" "where do I run with this?" "Do I keep bleeds up on everything or not?"

It's assumed that YOU do the research yourself

[dawn ivy]

no one is going to go their RL on sludgefist and ask if its okay to run WPS vigor/EP

[limber lion]

Exactly

[stoic needle]

Of course you don't have to go into that level of detail, but obviously you should ask your raid leader what they want you to focus on for a specific fight

[dawn ivy]

theres some parts of strats you dont ask about and some parts that you do, and with something as needlessly complex as SLG, its honestly hard to give concrete strats

[stoic needle]

If one person on the internet says that you should focus Goliaths, and your raid leader tells you to focus on something else, you just listen to your RL

[limber lion]

"Obviously." But you always fail to mention that and instead just tell people to do what you're doing with your group.

[stoic needle]

Because they understand your raid composition better than some random people on the internet

[limber lion]

Or rather

Phrasing it in a way where it's assumed that everyone does that

When it's not the case.

[dawn ivy]

people will listen to "focus the goliath" and it will waste 20 pulls for their RL to find out whos focusing goliath, yell at them and then they get benched

[limber lion]

I haven't said anything about it the last 3 times because I thought it was just you misspeaking, which I do quite often myself as well

But that's been the default every single time SLG is brought up

It's just not true.

[stoic needle]

I mean I'm not the only one who says this

[limber lion]

Who else is saying it?

Link me one reply of someone saying "You just full bingobongo the Goliath"

A regular as well

And someone who has said it multiple times.

Not one-off's

Mastery is a dumb meme, but this is just spreading misinformation.

[rain mortar]

Great news. 5 spikes is interesting. That means if you can get all 5 out then you get 5 CPs every time you can send another out

[odd hazel]

outlaw is gonna be BSUTED with that in M+

all those refreshes during blade flurry

tbh im prob just over hyping it but

yeah

but

sin

imagining those tastey 5+ CP evenoms back to back

easy 5+ CP ruptures.

[limber lion]

Oh look, you couldn't do it.

Because you're literally the only one.

But yeah, Bonespike is looking really strong.

And a lot of fun to play around with!

I think the fun factor is really important for legendaries.

Legendaries should impact the gameplay and make it more fun to play, not just passively increase your damage by a % imo

[dawn ivy]

thats why doomblade feels kinda sleeper

[limber lion]

Yeh

I'm not the biggest fan of Doomblade.

[dawn ivy]

even dashing makes me THINK something is happening

even if its barely any actual energy

[limber lion]

Zoldyck is passive as well, but it makes you think about your cd usage and gameplay around the execution mark.

[dawn ivy]

true

[limber lion]

And how you want to focus your damage

Like if there's 2 targets and one is in execute range, you want to be pumping into the execute one if possible

[steep reef]

I really enjoy today’s topic on midmax slg and I think to summarize that everyone is capable of midmax their own strats when appropriate

[odd hazel]

i mean, i wish duskwalkers was better

but all the leggos seem meh gameplay wise

[limber lion]

Yeah. Our Vanish is too strong of a cooldown because it's tied to our talents

Not having Vend/Vanish line up feels pretty meh

[stoic needle]

I think you're being a bit disengenuous about the way I describe what we should do on slg. I looked back at every post I've made where I mention the word Goliath and every single one except the most recent one I say focus on BOSS AND GOLIATH damage not just Goliath damage

[limber lion]

Vendetta is not the best cooldown in the world as well, that's why Duskwalkers is very meh :p

[stoic needle]

Search it for yourself if you don't believe me

I say 'garotte and rupture the boss and Goliath and rupture/ct skirmishers

[balmy condor]

make sure to SMASH that like button

[limber lion]

[steep reef]

and hit the SUBSCRIBE button

[dawn ivy]

dont forget to hit that bell icon

[steep reef]

who is this new green name

[odd hazel]

new?

whispyr isnt new

[steep reef]

u lookin kinda cute

I don’t see whispyr

[limber lion]

wat

[odd hazel]

[steep reef]

death’s whispyr... new person...

[stoic needle]

Literally right before that

[odd hazel]

hes not new

[stoic needle]

I think you just need to chill out man

[limber lion]

??

[stoic needle]

You're being kinda aggro for no reason

[limber lion]

How does that change anything what you've said

Idk man, you say a lot of dumb stuff

[stoic needle]

Me telling someone one time to flag on a Goliath and kill it = \ = me saying every single time someone brings up slg to only focus Goliaths

[odd hazel]

so

new topic

is it normal that a 220 decanter does more then a 220 IQD? for a venth Sin? ( Well, they say its a -0 in sim )

[limber lion]

[stoic needle]

Like you're either drawing conclusions from these last couple times or you're just grossly mischaracterizing what I'm saying to fit your narrative that I spread misinformation for some reason

Either way it's kinda weird

[limber lion]

Not as weird as calling yourself the up and coming mastery CF.

[stoic needle]

Why do you take memes so seriously dude lol

[limber lion]

Have you tried simming gems/enchants as well to get crit as your highest stat? :P

Not sure if meme though, very confused

[odd hazel]

my crit is 30% and haste is 23%. unless you mean during lust?

[limber lion]

The rating

Not %

[odd hazel]

ah

[limber lion]

Like actual rating behind it

[odd hazel]

all my enchants are crit so, rip that fix

[limber lion]

23% haste is definitely higher in rating than 30% crit

[odd hazel]

it is by like 60

[limber lion]

Can you link the sim?

[balmy condor]

#assassination message

[odd hazel]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/vpRRTBUZwwDrbv64E9wbVn

( Not sure if matters but i turned off group buffs my group doesnt have )

[limber lion]

No worries, give me a few seconds here

I got you homie

[odd hazel]

Ye boy, thank you

[limber lion]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ak1QwnjUJCZR96kw564qdT

Eyy

[odd hazel]

wait

excuse me

[limber lion]

Had to swap out the ring and the gem on your wrists

[odd hazel]

IS THAT REALLY THE FIX LOL

[limber lion]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/thT3BKJcpcVpr4PoeMBuii

Here's the top gear

Of your 210 IQD

I just took the profile that simmed with the 210 IQD in Gear Compare with 220 IQD instead

And it pulls ahead there

210 IQD still loses to 220 Decanter though :p

Gotta get that valor

[odd hazel]

figured, yeah. im working on it lmao need one more timed 15

thanks for the help!

[limber lion]

No worries :P

Love to see some Venthyr IQD gamers

[odd hazel]

Yeah, i enjoy Flag---- i honestly prefer being able to prioritize damage on a certain target then just AoEing a ton. found it has helped my runs quite a bit sometimes

[mighty bolt]

guys, EP+ Vigor or BS- DS for sludge? Im necro btw ❤️

[limber lion]

Definitely EP + Vigor.

[mighty bolt]

my hero

thx ^^

[limber lion]

Good luck!

[bitter canyon]

Does anyone know where the extra combo point comes from when you mutilate and sometimes get 4?

[potent rune]

seal fate

[bitter canyon]

Says seal fate will only provide 1 extra cp

[slender trail]

both hand hits

[bitter canyon]

Or is it 1 extra for each hand

Ah

Misinterpreted that then, thanks!

[limber lion]

Yep. That's why it shows up as a double-ability in Warcraft logs if you ever look at logs.

It also applies poisons at twice the normal rate because of it.

[gusty mirage]

Cev idk if you need to hear this today or not, but you're awesome

[limber lion]

You too

[odd hazel]

Cev is a god

[gusty mirage]

[odd hazel]

we ship oxi + cev here

[fallow solar]

Prob asked 1000 times but what is the timings for sludge opener? Can I shadowstep the roar and then go into a normal rotation with cds, or do i need to be popping on pull timer?

[limber lion]

You just pop everything in the beginning as you normally would. You have to use Vendetta pretty early (before 5s) so you have it up for the second pillar.

Everything else should line up perfectly.

Use 2 Shiv's before the first pillar on cooldown to have the 3rd one up for the pillar.

[fallow solar]

Awesome thanks :)

[limber lion]

[real bay]

you mean 2nd, you dont have anything but shiv for 1st

[hollow river]

i feel like 9.1 is gonna be just as troll with covenants as it has been

different specs wanting diff covenants etc

[limber lion]

Huh?

[hollow river]

[frosty bridge]

Vendetta pull - 2nd - 4th, 2 Shivs before first pillar

[limber lion]

Yep, but it's fine.

[limber lion]

Yes, just like I said.

[frosty bridge]

Sorry boss

you the boss man

[real bay]

Vendetta pretty early (before 5s) so you have it up for the first pillar., was confused by this

as its the 2nd pillar

[limber lion]

Ah yeah that was a typo, nice catch! I thought you were talking about the Shiv :p

[real bay]

oh 🙂

[odd hazel]

what? Sin/Sub want Venth for ST ( not sure about Sub for AoE ), Sin/Outlaw Want necro for M+

not to much difference

when the % difference of each is like 2% between each other

[real bay]

sludge is one of the good bosses tbh, no rng timing shit and CDs match up so well

[limber lion]

Well for Sub the difference will be very giga.

Just play Assa and nothing else and you're good

[limber lion]

Yep for sure.

[frail fossil]

covenant diff between necrolrod and venthyr is not relevant, if you're good u can perform well at both as outlaw or assa

[hollow river]

yes but there's only 2 purely ST bosses right?

[frail fossil]

if obedience becomes sub bis legendary, u might wanna go venthyr just for sub if u into that

[odd hazel]

Yes but doesnt mean you cant play any of the mfor every boss

[hollow river]

and some other classes seem to be in a state of limbo atm not knowing what to prepapre

[frail fossil]

the diff between necro and venthyr barely matters for assa

[limber lion]

Just play what you want

[odd hazel]

kind of with a lot of things yeah but you can realistically play any CoV at a competitive level

its not like you'll be doing 20% more damage with one over the other

[limber lion]

Ye. Except for Sub.

[hollow river]

yeah i know but that 2%

[limber lion]

But like I always say

As long as you don't play Kyrian, you'll be good

[hollow river]

well if sub really makes a comeback with venth

i'm switching back to venth D:

[limber lion]

A lot of people want to see Sub do well

[odd hazel]

i mean. its doing almost as good as sin

with what people say

[hollow river]

i mean i love sin for raid

but i want to try sub for m+ again

maybe certain bosses in raid

[limber lion]

A good bunch want to play Sub because they enjoy the spec, but refrain from playing it because it's performing so poorly.

[hollow river]

yep

[frail fossil]

people were stressing out about cov in 9.0 when all were literally even, people are more afraid of having several options than one obvious best one

u should not stress abt cov just now

[hollow river]

i mained it for like a month when i started the xpac

[odd hazel]

i would of most likely stayed sub if it was decent when i first started playing my rogue

i'd rather be able to switch between 2 CoVs easily then have 2 Legendarys.

[limber lion]

Covenant swapping is pretty simple anyways, so doesn't really matter honestly

[rain mortar]

Flag is fun for the number - but I don’t love it for the play. Like it feel like you don’t do anything worth it.

[limber lion]

You can swap covenants every week.

[frail fossil]

yeah i'm probably gonna go level venthyr in 2 week i think

[odd hazel]

i mean like, talents Cev. With out having to do the quest you just click a button and swap

[limber lion]

Or at the max every 2 weeks.

[hollow river]

also for warlock necro looks as though it will make Destro stonks through the roof

with aff nerfs, ST is a little hit but NF is still the best option

[limber lion]

Yeh, everyone wants that but for lore reasons and whatnot we're never getting that.

[cloud dune]

I'm currently NF but I want to switch covenants. I'm having a hard time deciding between necro and venthyr

[limber lion]

Who knows maybe we all join forces in 9.2 which will allow us to swap covenant abilities at will

[limber lion]

Try them both. It's pretty easy swapping back and forth.

Swapping to a new covenant is instant, swapping back takes 2 days.

[hollow river]

i feel like if they would let us partner up just 2 choices to switch easier to and from everyone would be happy

i can see why they don't want that though

[odd hazel]

yeah, im not asking for all 4 just

2

[frail fossil]

i dont rly mind covenant as much as peopledo

tbf

[odd hazel]

feel like that is more impactful and meaningful with out boosting our power to much then 2 legendarys would be

[frail fossil]

i was never in a point were i was like FUCK covenant man

[odd hazel]

^this tbh, i like them as well.

[frail fossil]

always was satisfied abt my cov choice personally

[limber lion]

It's really personal.

[odd hazel]

people cry about borrowed power to much

[limber lion]

Some people care quite a bit, some don't give two shits.

[hollow river]

yeah i mean don't get me wrong

[gusty mirage]

idk man flagellation in January was awful

[hollow river]

i was kyrian when i started xpac

[limber lion]

I have been at a point where I've definitely cared about it

[hollow river]

and i liked it

[limber lion]

And been bummed out that I wasn't a certain covenant.

[frail fossil]

yeah i mean people are into diff things, i can see why people dont like the cov system

[odd hazel]

fuck kyrian

[frail fossil]

it personally doesn't rly affect me

[hollow river]

but as time rolls on, you want to perform the absolute best for your guild/yourself

at least I do

[frail fossil]

kyrian was literally the best cov early on lol

i was kyrian until 9.0.5

[hollow river]

same

[limber lion]

[odd hazel]

i'd rather delete toon then play kyrian

[hollow river]

LOL

[frail fossil]

NF

i dont like sepsis

boring af

i liked ER

[limber lion]

That's the beauty of it.

[rain mortar]

Everyone forgets kyrian days already lmao

[hollow river]

i find flag boring so im necro. still miles better feeling than kyrian

[frail fossil]

kyrian was dope

[frail fossil]

sbs is amazing

[limber lion]

After Sepsis apl changes it became pretty cool

[hollow river]

but i have venth renown to switch back to

[limber lion]

Sepsis with Shiv for big deeps and Vanish for the bonk for big bonkerino

[rain mortar]

I think SBS and kyrian ability are the most FUN. Which is why I hope they both are high up. The other two are boring. Just a button to press.

[limber lion]

SBS is definitely the best covenant ability we have imho

[limber lion]

But isn't that what Kyrian is as well?

You just press it and it does damage

[rain mortar]

Nah - because you have to play into the combo point it lands on

[limber lion]

Then you continue your normal rotation

You don't play around it

[hollow river]

[limber lion]

You just play it normally

[hollow escarp]

you don't really have to play

[limber lion]

And when you hit it

Then you press the finisher

[gusty mirage]

yeah if it lines up, great, if it doesn't it doesn't

[limber lion]

But you don't start like throwing knives or using FoK or anything

[frail fossil]

i liked it as outlaw cuz it flurried and felt like a kinda big hit

[odd hazel]

i'll prob switch back to necro for M+ grinding next season then switch back to venth

[frail fossil]

i loved the animation too

[odd hazel]

unless necro is broken in raid

[limber lion]

Yeah, I could see this tbh

[rain mortar]

Yeah I guess they should change it to make it more valuable to line it up

[limber lion]

Yeah, the 20 CP finisher in Torghast is pretty dank apparently

[rain mortar]

I still like the play of it more than venth or NF. But SBS is king as far as gameplay

[hollow river]

not as dank as you'd think lol

[gusty mirage]

vein rippers + 20cp ruptures

[hollow river]

50k crits are nice to look at but still low dps as outlaw in TG

[gusty mirage]

think about it

[hollow river]

oh i only used it as kyrian outlaw in TG

[frail fossil]

ER in torghast was hilarious