assassination

[sacred isle]

Who the fuck cares when u are full

[gusty mirage]

also idk why putting in conduits you don't already have gives you 1 conduit energy but upgrading conduits doesn't

[strange python]

is it true in beta conduits used to be consumables

[frosty bridge]

Do they consider people like to play PvP, M+, raids AND offspec?

[frosty bridge]

They got destroyed if changed iirc

And you had to refarm it

[strange python]

damn

[gusty mirage]

yeah thankfully that system died quick

because that'd be miserable af

[sacred isle]

Imagine veenari rolling with that 🙂

[alpine latch]

When you first use a conduit, it uses energy. It's not JUST changing. It definitely blows on an alt when you smash through renown and add in a bunch of conduits at once.

[frosty bridge]

The fact that they even considered it tho

[alpine latch]

The only time I have ever ran out of energy was on my druid. I set up a tanking tree, a feral tree, and a resto tree

[gusty mirage]

it is the same company that said "fuck emissary quests that you don't have to pick up, here are new emissaries that you HAVE to pick up, but they're called Callings"

[alpine latch]

And my resto tree didn't even get finished for like 3-4 days

[frosty bridge]

It's nice when offspecs use a different soulbind

[alpine latch]

No, they don't care about those people. PvP participation is extremely low.

[frosty bridge]

But it's not always the case

Well, I noticed, they pay very little attention to PvP

and their communication is terrible for a AAA company

[alpine latch]

Of all "end game" content, PvP is by far the least participation

So it makes sense they spend the least amount of time on it

[frosty bridge]

It does, I don't think the PvP community minds that they spend more time on PvE, but they barely did anything for PvP this patch

9.0 and 9.0.5 i mean

[alpine latch]

If you care about PvP and you play WoW

You don't care about GOOD PvP

There's 19,000 games that do PvP better and more balanced than WoW does

[gusty mirage]

eh I think that's a hot take. Arena is unmatched by any other game

[frosty bridge]

I mean.. that's a bad take imo

[gusty mirage]

if blizzard gave a fuck about arena, it'd EASILY be the best pvp mmo

[frosty bridge]

There are people who play for the story too when there are a milion better games for it

[gusty mirage]

but arena suffers from the same thing the rest of the game does, lack of balancing patches & no communication

[alpine latch]

I don't know anyone who plays for the story.

[gusty mirage]

no consistency, etc

[alpine latch]

I know people who play AND like the story

But they don't play FOR the story

I'm a big lore guy

But that has no bearing on whether or not I play the game

[frosty bridge]

My point is, there is people who play to do the campaign and play the game mostly like a single player game

[alpine latch]

That's definitely true.

[frosty bridge]

A milion games do that better

Yet people still like to play like that

[alpine latch]

If anything, I'd argue that is the "average" WoW player

[frosty bridge]

Well exactly, Blizzard has no excuse for their lack of communication

They are just lucky that WoW is still the best MMO out there by far

[alpine latch]

IMO, WoW hasn't been the best MMO in 15 years

[frosty bridge]

The genre needs some competition to put fire under their butt

[alpine latch]

It's just the biggest and most popular

Rift, IMO, was far better.

As was Aoin

Aion*

[frosty bridge]

Well sure, I meant most played, better is subjective

[alpine latch]

It was never nearly as popular though. People loved the game, but all of their friends played WoW, so they eventually quit and went back

Rogue tanking in Rift was so much fucking fun

[frosty bridge]

Never played it, the lack of competition allows Blizzard to be "lazy"

Personally, I hope Riot do their MMO well. Not sure about Ashes but I would like for it to succeed

[grand ridge]

Wildstar was dope

I miss that game

[compact pumice]

Tbh it's more likely that Blizzard implodes and fails rather than some other game somehow stealing 15+ years of loyal subscription fans.

[tropic ocean]

just the developer was bad sadly

stalker was rogue but with good design

[grand ridge]

I played the spellslinger

As a healer

[tropic ocean]

😁

once a rogue, always a rogue

[grand ridge]

I wish wow would introduce broadcasting with mechanics

It's so nice in ff14 and wildstar

[stoic needle]

They have it but it's just poorly executed

Red lines on a red floor with red spell effects going everywhere

[gusty mirage]

blizzard executing something poorly? No way

[tropic ocean]

@stoic needle its different in ws

[stoic needle]

I've seen how it's different in wildstar

[tropic ocean]

every spell had a telegraph under it showing you point exact length and width of it

[stoic needle]

It's much more clear where the boundaries of the effects are

[tropic ocean]

which is sometimes VERY weird in wow 😂

[stoic needle]

That's why I said it's poorly executed on blizzard's end, there's no reason why they shouldn't do the same

[gusty mirage]

blizzard seems to struggle w/ visual indicators & actual size of the abilities

#neverforget the giant stomp in freehold

[stoic needle]

Wow will have a swirly and the effect will be bigger than it

[gusty mirage]

where the ability circle is larger than the visual indicator

[stoic needle]

Or smaller

[tropic ocean]

idk how often i got hit in antorus first boss of shit

cuz of different dimensions compared 2 graphics

[hollow river]

Doesn’t FF do a decent job with indicators as well?

[gusty mirage]

from what I've seen their outlines for abilities are super precise

but I've never played it

[hollow river]

Everything is just so damn flashy

[gusty mirage]

yeah it's definitely a lot

[hollow river]

Me neither, just watched people raid

Looks like seizure central

But the fact you can play any class on your 1 character is very tempting to try out

[subtle tundra]

whats better is subjective, but by looking at how much bigger wow is than any other mmorpg its obviously a better game on average

[hollow river]

FF is getting pretty darn popular

[subtle tundra]

i wont play it until i can buy subscription with ingame currency like wow

[slender trail]

what's the venth opener sequence with flag inside the vendetta window?

[gusty mirage]

same as default, but flag before the rupture

[subtle tundra]

with MA, mut snd mut gar flag rupture

[slender trail]

yeah but where's vend and shiv

[subtle tundra]

after that

you asked opener

i gave you opener

thats part of the normal rotation

[slender trail]

my question was what's the opener with flag inside vendetta window

[subtle tundra]

?

[slender trail]

see question again 🙂

[subtle tundra]

???

[stoic needle]

Just put vendetta before flag

[slender trail]

right but then you have shiv and vanish. sounds like there's no set rotation for this sequence then.

[subtle tundra]

?????

[spice spire]

???

[slender trail]

i think cev runs it. i'll check his logs

[stoic needle]

Use those after Rupture?

You're really overthinking this man

[subtle tundra]

you're so dense

[gusty mirage]

its the same rotation, you just swap around where you use your CDs

[slender trail]

and you're absolutely not helpful, varas. you completely answered the question wrong to start.

[stoic needle]

But he told you the correct answer

[subtle tundra]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[slender trail]

no he didn't. he said put vend after when i specifically asked for the opener with it before

and no it's not in the guide

jesus you guys

[stoic needle]

Dude you literally

Just press vendetta before flag

[subtle tundra]

give me your account and i can do the opener and you log in after

[stoic needle]

It's not rocket science

[slender trail]

that's a perfectly fine answer

but that didn't show up until 8 answers later

so thank you

[gusty mirage]

[stoic needle]

.

[slender trail]

right, and look how long it took to get there

[gusty mirage]

15 seconds?

[slender trail]

oxi is talking about flag and rupture swapping

not vend

anyway, i have my answer. thanks

[subtle tundra]

on wowhead

[gusty mirage]

yeah np man

[subtle tundra]

please do research ^^

[slender trail]

holy shit varas, stop

[subtle tundra]

nah

wont

[gusty mirage]

appreciate the snark though

[spice spire]

What the fuck was this conversation

[gusty mirage]

a reminder that I should avoid RH before noon

[spice spire]

T[oxi]c

[slender trail]

like, i'm not being snarky

[gusty mirage]

no you kind of are

[slender trail]

why? i asked flag/vend swap rotation

and your answer doesn't mention it

[gusty mirage]

my 2nd response did

[slender trail]

right

[gusty mirage]

literally nothing changes except where you press vendetta

if you wanted flag IN vendetta, press vendetta then flag then rupture

[slender trail]

and again, between my question and that answer y'all go off like i'm a moron

[gusty mirage]

nowhere did I treat you like a moron

literally none of my messages were demeaning or rude

[subtle tundra]

and this is why i advocate for own research
open up a warcraft log on any venthyr assa and look at their casts

takes 30 seconds

[gusty mirage]

I could have been more precise in my first message, sure. That's why I followed it up with my 2nd

[rugged sandal]

Calling someone snarky is rude, also imagine flaming someone for asking a question about ass rogue in the ass rogue channel in the rogue discord

Couldn’t be I

Back to work I go

[gusty mirage]

@rugged sandal appreciate your two cents, but read the entire chain

(:

[final star]

what if

we are all dumb

[rugged sandal]

^

[subtle tundra]

i enjoy being an ass to people

[gusty mirage]

not a what if, I am dumb

[final star]

📠

[subtle tundra]

ass rogue that is

[gusty mirage]

I'm a world class dumb ass tyvm

[spice spire]

It’s also in a million places - it is easy to get frustrated on some basic things, happens to the best of us.

Also wouldn’t say calling someone snarky is rude, I’d say being snarky is rude. Attitude goes a long way sometimes not to condemn Tender because I’ve not interacted with him beyond that - but attitude “seemingly” unprovoked will elicit a similar response.

[subtle tundra]

ok bye
vanish

[spice spire]

Tl;dr it’s a video game have fun

[gusty mirage]

@subtle tundra just gonna stir the pot and dip?

[rugged sandal]

Good point however my point was name calling is rude. But you are right @spice spire

[subtle tundra]

sap

[spice spire]

That’s also a fair point but like I said, little things happen to the best of us. I tend to not immediately judge someone on a negative interaction - after several in a row, definitely. We all have bad days. Hope everyone has a great Friday 🙂

[slender trail]

thanks for the sane reply. not sure why i'm going to bother continuing this but....

really read the chain. simple/fair question, no smark.

• first answer incomplete
• second answer wrong (followed by snark and more wrong answers)
• which leads to more snark
• correct answer

[gusty mirage]

Okay

Explain how my 2nd answer was wrong

[slender trail]

i should have been the better person and just left it alone then, which i tried to do (offering ot just go look at cev's logs)

[gusty mirage]

"Same rotation, you just change around when you use your CDs"

and go

[slender trail]

oxi, you weren't the only one answering

[gusty mirage]

I blame Varas for this

[slender trail]

or maybe you have varas on block?

[gusty mirage]

I just tune people out when they stir the shit tbh

[slender trail]

well i dont know varas so his answer is as valid as anyone's to me

[lone crescent]

guys stop, this is what the Jailer wants

[slender trail]

anyway, yes, it's a game, enjoy it. and thanks for your response oxi.

[gusty mirage]

much love tender no hard feelings

also tbf I probably woulda been snarky too if someone attacked me right away

[spice spire]

It’s pretty common here, so it’s easy to tune out

That’s fair. You also mentioned checking Cev logs - that’s also a great line. Cev is an absolute mad lad

[gusty mirage]

I feel like Cev also may be a robot 🤖

[spice spire]

But yeah oxi is goated. But basic things can get under anyone’s skin, idt I’ve ever seen him snarky back

[spice spire]

He’s in his reboot cycle rn

[gusty mirage]

between him and fuu, they're multiplying

[spice spire]

Fuu was speaking to himself this morning, was scary

[frigid sleet]

i'm not sure about m+ garrote usage anymore in aoe, do you want to have it on as many target as you can or do you prefere building ruptures for energy/damage generation ?

[spice spire]

Both. You want to keep garrotes as well as ruptures up. Especially with subterfuge on. You obviously won’t be able to garrote everyone outside of the opener/Vanish windows, but just garrote targets as you can

You also want to keep CT up

[stoic needle]

You can only keep up 3 at a time because of the cooldown. But you should try to keep up 3

[spice spire]

It’s part of what makes sin neat in m+ imo

[frigid sleet]

do we still start pumping envenom after we got ~5 bleeds up, or damage wise its better to put ruptures on high hp targets

[stoic needle]

It's better to Rupture if it will live longer than 4 seconds

[frigid sleet]

thats kinda what i'm doing, ending up somehow having some trouble with snd uptime

[spice spire]

This is also in the pins to help!

You can pump a random envenom as the SnD is about to drop

Especially if you already have bleeds going

[limber lion]

Keeping SnD up with Envenom is one of your main priorities, even in AoE.

We tried some stuff with Whispyr to see if hard-casting SnD instead or just dropping it altogether would be better

But they all lost.

CTTC is too strong to not take advantage of, even in AoE.

[gusty mirage]

yeah, free snd + increase in poison procs from envenom are huge

[frigid sleet]

envenoms it is then

[tropic ocean]

would never check anyones logs to get correct answer for rotational logic

just straight up read it from rh guide

[gusty mirage]

but if you're going to read anyone's logs for rotational logic, Cev's is top tier

[tropic ocean]

but u shouldnt read logs for it i first place

[spice spire]

While fair, to make sure it’s 100% up to date, you can always check someone’s logic from a week ago compared to a few months ago (if outdated)

[tropic ocean]

because you know, humans dont 100% do the logical thing to do

[spice spire]

They’re improving APL all the time here.

[tropic ocean]

and just generally speaking in the past we saw what r1 players did

[spice spire]

And that’s where you’re wrong. Cev is a robot, definitely not human

[tropic ocean]

and how it wad not the optimal thing to do

[spice spire]

People do jank and stuff. But you can see trends from consistently performing players and draw conclusions

[tropic ocean]

so rather just always stick to apl.logic

[spice spire]

When looking at the specific question, “hey how do you sequence this opener” and they don’t want to look at an APL - it’s not without reason to see it in a consistently performing player no one will show you perfection but again, drawing conclusions from the places you know aren’t without merit

[tropic ocean]

well then the wont get the 100% correct answer, simple

you dont need to do correct rotation or make optimal decisions to perform consistently good

you dont need to do rotational logic to be r1 player

[gusty mirage]

very true

[tropic ocean]

we saw it in the past

we see it in this tier

and im not judging anyone or anything

but to get precise answers the best thing to ask is a robot that did x 5000000000 times

[gloomy fern]

cev might have tried to parse more than that in heroic

[tropic ocean]

this is talking about rotational logic only

obviously its better to look at top performing players when it comes to indepth encounter logic

like holding vendetta for a dmg increase phase

or w/e

[spice spire]

Going after what Tender knew compared to “just check sims” when looking at an ST fight would show him the answer to his question was also my logic in the situation. It’s easy to just say “check the sims” but that doesn’t resonate with everyone always. If they’re going to look at logs - check someone who’s consistently working on optimizing sequencing. Rather than “built different yolo rogues”

Though Cev is built diff

[tropic ocean]

but how will you get an correct answer from looking at logs

[steep reef]

cev is a midmaxer

[tropic ocean]

like looking at mythic logs?

ok he parsed 99 but that doesnt mean he executed the rotation 100% correctly

heroic logs? not worth to look at i log sire 98% avg in 200 kills and i do lots of mistakes and bad decisions

theres literally no correct answer except sim and even in sim sometimes the answer is only correct at the time asked, until logic was improved

[gusty mirage]

I can confirm that, because I know on my highest parse I definitely made mistakes

[tropic ocean]

+encounter design impacts your log by such a lot

[gusty mirage]

because I beat myself up over it when I saw it, I knew that if I played a little better it could've probably been a 100 instead of 99*

[tropic ocean]

i can join my saturday alt raid to slg on main and will 99 it

cuz raid dps is so low that I never need to dps stop and can pad on commandos in intermission 24/7 without popping shields

even if i play like a dog

using logs to answer questions that can be solved by raidbots are very bad advice

[spice spire]

It’s also diffusing a situation sequencing your opening vendetta and flag could have been solved any number of ways

[tropic ocean]

I mean thats a simple question to answer, we had some french rogue here dunno if he still is that often spend a lot of time on different rotational approaches in raidbots

some were gains, some were losses

[spice spire]

I could have said check my logs and I’m a 4/10 shitter - I think your looking at macro a bit harder than micro here.

The best advice is always check pins, guides, and sims. If you have more questions, let’s go in depth. So my advice was not the best here in general, but in the moment it elicited response and helped diffuse.

[tropic ocean]

im not judging you or what you did

I just can't understand how often ppl get so offended when they get the best possible answer

it became pretty common over the years that ppl rather accept answers that fit their thought process

[spice spire]

Yeah, you’re good. This is a lengthy explanation 😅

I’d always rather be challenged on actions people think are incorrect than be complicit. I’m trying to explain decision making but poorly.

And like I said In my earlier novela, it happens to the best of us

[tropic ocean]

or just copy paste what top players use

but not realizing that most of those players can play whatever legendary or talent

and will still be r1 cuz the difference between em is not big enough to influence the skill level

[high mantle]

anyone know if bonespike dot counts as a bleed for doomblade lego?

[spice spire]

It does

Also counts as a bleed for Zoldyck’s iirc

[gloomy fern]

this all sounds like fake news

[spice spire]

Oh?

[high mantle]

ive head about Zoldyck’s

[pure moth]

In a log, are you able to tell if pooling is a problem? Im not energy starved by any means. Im just trying to figure out why i cant fix darkvein.

[thorny pond]

You can track energy and CP wastage yes

[tropic ocean]

link log

[gloomy fern]

as long as u dont overcap energy

or waste globals when pumping

[tropic ocean]

if you're talking overall on inerva, you probably dont dps enough on adds or dont spawn enough adds to get a better log unless you are making rotational mistakes

pooling will not impact your dps output by a large margin

[jagged bobcat]

Is sin looking healthy in 9.1?

[thorny pond]

Like a 61 year old marathon runner

[jagged bobcat]

So i dont have to reroll? sick

[thorny pond]

Only thing you should reroll is yer bones

[pure moth]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/p7F3AL8TbkCdxwhH/#fight=5

[untold nest]

Sin looking like best ST dps for 9.1 probably after nerfs to WL/mage/SP. EMPHASIS on probably as patch is like 2 months away and noone knows yet (before i get roasted in replys)

[tropic ocean]

yeah

you need to do way more dmg to adds

pad the shit out of em

sbs rupture

use ct on add spawns

[pure moth]

Dont think i used ct, but prob not a bad idea

[tropic ocean]

if u have 3 adds around her u can build with fok

[pure moth]

I just started collecting renown. So i had 5 renown.

[tropic ocean]

that as well yeah

but inerva is pad fight so if u wanna log.good

pad adds

[spice spire]

You also get a bit of a damage increase by getting your conduits n shit for your soulbind lol. Not a ton ofc, but some

And yeah 100% bleed adds

[tropic ocean]

if ur guild.can handle it.dont immune add

[pure moth]

I pugged into the run, knew someone. Their guild was missing people last night

[tropic ocean]

ideally want 3 every spawn

[pure moth]

But ya if its a pug.. i can definitely skip cloak for getting more adds

[gloomy fern]

you dont use ct on inerva wtf

[spice spire]

If you’re padding, you definitely can on Mythic

[pure moth]

Their small add died pretty quick. Would die before full tick of rupture as well

[gloomy fern]

which one of the mare you

[tropic ocean]

ct is not much worse than pb and better on > 1 target

so why would you not use it

[pure moth]

Shadowsin

[gloomy fern]

you get less envenoms, adds barely live boss sits on the same palce anyawy for pb

you should instead of focusing on padding

get ur garrote uptime etc up

u got 83% uptime on ienrva with garrote

for example

[spice spire]

If adds are being immuned or adds die super quick

[tropic ocean]

???

[gloomy fern]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/p7F3AL8TbkCdxwhH/#fight=5&type=resources&source=20&spell=104you overcap a lot of combopoints wasting dmg

[tropic ocean]

u cant immune all adds

overcap a lot of cp?

lol

[spice spire]

Also 500 energy wasted

[gloomy fern]

u dont think overcappign 19 cp in 5 min is a lot?

[spice spire]

Is a bit

[gloomy fern]

and its not seal fate

[tropic ocean]

on a fight with adds?

no

and if you have to play orbs

u naturally overcap energy

as well

[gloomy fern]

what do adds have to do with overcapping cp?

[tropic ocean]

are you just looking at flat numbers?

o_O

[spice spire]

Yeah, but not an 8th of your total energy

[tropic ocean]

because overcapping cp in multi target is dps gain?

[gloomy fern]

!??!?!?!?!?!?!?

[stoic needle]

Uh, no it's not

[gloomy fern]

ARE U FUCKIGN DUMB

DPS GAIN?

why are u giving advice to anyone

[stoic needle]

We aren't talking about seal fate

It's the rest

[spice spire]

That’s why I said 500 is a bit. Out of 3829 - 500 is a lot of energy wasted unless you were just perma mechanic’d

[pure moth]

And i was all night tbh

[gloomy fern]

im out cant argue with idiots

[pure moth]

Think i had beam 3 or 4 times

[spice spire]

CT is fine on the fight if the ads stay alive but the rest is definitely more uh problematic

[tropic ocean]

gj kazzak

[gloomy fern]

keep spouting "because overcapping cp in multi target is dps gain?"

[balmy condor]

[spice spire]

You wanna keep your uptime on boss as well, if you’re perma-mechanized, that’s when movement abilities come into play and in five minutes I only see one SS cast and one sprint cast. That also could have helped

[spice spire]

Not the tilted one for once

[stoic needle]

I hope that's fat free butter sir

[balmy condor]

Overcapping cp is a gain? Fuck I guess I learned something new

What a wonderful thing to wake up to

[spice spire]

We’re all learning today

[odd heath]

Why use finishers at all uh?

[balmy condor]

True

[red bloom]

Melee is my highest dam, think I’ll just use that

[spice spire]

Time to fix the APL, whispyr. Sorry 😦

[odd heath]

Smash that mut button

[balmy condor]

You’re right

The apl uses finishers and doesn’t force overcap

[spice spire]

Unlucky

[balmy condor]

All the sims must be wrong

[spice spire]

Bad TCs

[gloomy fern]

but imagine the 20cp CT in aoe

this guy got secret tech

[spice spire]

That one’s going in the vault for sure though.

RH is Wildin’ sometimes

[tropic ocean]

can flame all you want

raidbots overcap both energy and cp in aoe

it doesnt force it

but still does

[gloomy fern]

he doubles down

[balmy condor]

[gloomy fern]

im sure the apl overcap with muti and garrote in aoe

[balmy condor]

The clown puts on another layer of makeup for an encore

That took way too long quake

I expect better tbh

[spice spire]

Mobile papi :/

I’m sorry 😦

[balmy condor]

Understandable

[spice spire]

I’m reading medical records and yet they’re the second most tragic thing I’m reading currently

[icy ember]

i always overcap my CPs w/shiv before I go into the envenom phase 🤓

[balmy condor]

But I guess that’s what ausgelebt lives for

So

Worth?

[dawn ivy]

damn waiting for 9.1 really has people feelin a certain way

ive woken up two days in a row and seen a circus playing out

[craggy oak]

I guess in a hyperthetical world where fok deals insane dmg it would be a dps increase

[dawn ivy]

the only time i can remember fok spam was triple EB and even then youd spend points to keep ruptures through the entire group

[spice spire]

Vault’s getting full these days

[craggy oak]

Moving on, when we getting exang buffs, tired of alac

[dawn ivy]

VENOM RUSH

[spice spire]

Oh god

[craggy oak]

I take it back alac over vr

[stoic needle]

Got any proof of that chief

[tropic ocean]

y

[stoic needle]

Post it

I want to see raidbots overcapping cp

In dungeon slice

[tropic ocean]

dont have dslice sim

and i wasn't talking about dslice any time

[stoic needle]

Dslice is aoe though

Post an 8t patchwerk one then

[tropic ocean]

but dslice doesnt really represent inerva

i use 40 seconds 4 targets for it dunno if theres a better setup

[stoic needle]

40 second sims

[tropic ocean]

but raidbots pretty much does what i do, build with fok keep bleeds and ct up and dot every target with bonespike

[stoic needle]

Post the sim overcapping

[dawn ivy]

sometimes i dont want to correct peoples mistakes because i like to imagine them making that big of a mistake in front of people

[odd heath]

With lust, to be better

[tropic ocean]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/5tcLmm7kGhZGfJWAVExkrL/simc

if you got any better sim-style for inerva fight

feel free to share

I just took the avg of how long adds live in my raid

[craggy oak]

Are the cps not being oc from shiv and fok crits

You are not playing for extra cps there

Or am i seeing that wrong

[tropic ocean]

can possibly be and im wrong sure

[odd heath]

Overcaps from seal fate, shiv, fok

[craggy oak]

Ye

You are not playing for overcapping

[stoic needle]

Seal fate doesn't count because we don't play around seal fate

[odd heath]

Not a single cp overcap on purpose there

[stoic needle]

And the serrated bone spike dot doesn't give cp so idk wtf that is

[craggy oak]

And shive at max is a gain anyway cos shiv

[stoic needle]

Worrying about energy overcap in aoe is kind of moot because of the way that VW works

[craggy oak]

Like ye you would never play at 4 cp and say ima use another builder that would overcap as its a gain

So im pretty sure you misunderstood your sim

[tropic ocean]

nono, im not talking about seal fates, maybe I just phrased myself poorly

[stoic needle]

Or maybe you were wrong

[tropic ocean]

that as well, but then can just correct it rather than just insult and flame

[craggy oak]

Niether am i

Seel of fate is rng, what you said is overcapping cp is a gain according to raidbots

And the sim you linked does not overcap intentinaly, other than maybe shiv

[gloomy fern]

worst thing is that i showed the overcap was from muti+garrote etc and he said "overcap cp in aoe is gain"

and kept doubling down

[balmy condor]

better to not talk out of your ass and make crazy fried claims if you don't know any better tbh

but sure

our problem I guess

[tropic ocean]

just don't @ me

im glad for you you get your achieves here

[gloomy fern]

you were the only one using @ on me

not the other way around

[tropic ocean]

but ignoring someone 99% of the time is not enough for you

and luckily im not the only one it happened to

hope it makes you feel better

[balmy condor]

mizu helped a guy out, showing him that he was overcapping mut and garrotes and shivs in his logs

[stoic needle]

@tropic ocean

[balmy condor]

and you came out of the woodwork

and said "overcapping in aoe is a gain"

now you're wondering why we're flaming you

this happens a lot ausgelebt, I'm sure you remember all the previous times we've had similar discussions

if you don't know better, its fine to just not say anything

I do it all the time

[nimble tartan]

i have a real question

[tropic ocean]

didn't have a lot of discussions with you think its the first response in over a year or more maybe

since I had you on block until I msged shadow recently

[balmy condor]

[tropic ocean]

but luckily im not the only one you have these issues with

where you violate rh rules over and over by plain up personal attacking or insulting ppl

[hazy crater]

[nimble tartan]

scenario 4 targets, lets say m sire ok, i got 1 bleed up on sire ok, all targets gonna live decently long obv i wanna bleed them all ok BUT shiv comes up before i can bleed third guy ok, do i stop bleeding to envenom and then back to bleed

[tropic ocean]

logical conclusion would've been you are wrong (even though it was what I personally believed when I wrote it and how I played the fight since ever) and just correct it

[nimble tartan]

or do i keep bleeding and then shiv

please respond

[balmy condor]

that's what happened here is it not

osh even pointed out that we aren't talking about seal fate

[drifting cloud]

Hey aus ur still bad msybe next tier tyt

[balmy condor]

yes I was toxic, I'm not even denying it

[gloomy fern]

i pointed it out to him from the start

[balmy condor]

but if you're going to paint me to be the evil big bad of ravenholdt, please stick to the facts of the matter

[nimble tartan]

ok i will repost my question after this is done

[carmine token]

this drama is dumb yo, dont feed it

[balmy condor]

at least be like "anime profile pics are always awful"

[tropic ocean]

its my bad, by responding in the first place

[dawn ivy]

@tropic ocean id count yourself lucky, ive been banned for less, Whispyr is easily the nicest guy with pull in this discord

[tropic ocean]

should've sticked to my strategy for last year

[stoic needle]

I'm pretty sure that you shiv and keep bleeding

[scenic root]

It's never done

[tropic ocean]

banned for?

[balmy condor]

let me read omr hold on

[nimble tartan]

ok ty whispyr

oop

[tropic ocean]

you don't take punishment in here for violating your owns discord rules

[balmy condor]

you throw out the shiv, and keep bleeding

[nimble tartan]

ok ty

[balmy condor]

np

[dawn ivy]

oh im not obliged to go further with my case, im just letting you know

[balmy condor]

breakfast time

[spice spire]

Better eat something sweet

[amber mountain]

Ok... i'm tempted to do something potentially wonderfully stupid.

you guys keep talking about SBS, and I keep wanting to try it

[balmy condor]

Swap

Do it

No balls

[amber mountain]

If i swap today, and play necro all weekend, if I don't like it I can swap back on Monday night before the reset and be back fully in venthyr on Tuesday, right?

[balmy condor]

Ye

It’s a very fun ability though

[nocturne saffron]

hey guys i have lil doubt here. With the removal of Mind-numbing are rogues losing the enrage dispell on shiv for good?

[balmy condor]

I haven’t heard of anything swapping back because they enjoyed venthyr more

[balmy condor]

Mind numbing isn’t being removed

[amber mountain]

I like the venthyr covenant hall and atmosphere

i've been here since week 1

[nocturne saffron]

got it! thx!!

[balmy condor]

Np

[amber mountain]

O.o where did the idea of mind numbing being removed come from?!?!?!?!

[balmy condor]

I’m curious too

But frankly too scared to ask

[nocturne saffron]

saw it in 9.1 patch notes

[stoic needle]

That's a pvp talent

The one we use is Numbing Poison

[nocturne saffron]

yeah, i thought so

[stoic needle]

Slightly different

[thin imp]

Can someone help me with sledgefist? We are starting MM this sunday and went HC to test things out, but I think that I had quite low dps :

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Cq4X9jBLK7Qa1Mmk#fight=30&type=damage-done&source=16

0 wasted CP apart from seal fate

maybe vigor is better here since we want burst in pillars

[alpine latch]

If you're killing the boss before the 4th pillar, shouldn't you be saving Vendetta for pillars 1 and 3?

[pale fossil]

Depends on Lust I would think.

[thin imp]

well it was with a group of pugs so I didnt know how long it would take

[pale fossil]

But I don't know why anyone would Lust on second, so yeah, first and third.

[alpine latch]

Also, it looks like your 2nd vendetta was after the pillar?

IDK - just a quick glance, but the timing seems off there

Destructive Impact hits at 2:06 and your vendetta was 2:17

[spice spire]

With a kill time so short, it’s also pretty unlucky with your CDs

[thin imp]

yea got paired with someone that decided not to move

[pale fossil]

Some of this is just not reading too much into a coordination-check fight you're doing in a PUG.

[icy ember]

yo just 1 gripe about being venthyr, i hate the ember court they need to redesign it

after being nightfae and soakin up all the juicy crops

[balmy condor]

ez solution is just don't do any of the cov hall stuff

[dawn ivy]

the trick is to never do it

[icy ember]

well it was easy to do

[dawn ivy]

just dont dump anima into that section

[balmy condor]

I'm 40 renown venthyr and all of my companions are level 1

and I'm level 1 on all the upgrades

cause cba doing worldquests and cov stuff for 0 gain

[icy ember]

[charred wraith]

Runes though

A lot of runes though

[icy ember]

you get gold for doing it 🤓

and the conduit stuff 🤓

i've maxed out all of my conduits

[bleak sun]

Same lvl 55average companions, you can earn ~100k/week with 2char

[pale fossil]

I'm stockpiling anima so once we finish mythic progression i can switch back to night fae and finish the garden lol

[dawn ivy]

i just make 300k a week from sales

[pale fossil]

I simply steal from the guild bank

[spice spire]

That’s unethical

[sacred isle]

Part of the rp experience. Rogues steal stuff 🙂

[spice spire]

I thought the RP experience was just being toxic af :/

[neat pulsar]

you can steal and be toxic

[pure sinew]

Having pickpocket bound to ambush is a dps up

[neat pulsar]

I like to distract bosses 2 sec before pulls to let people think it was prepull and bait them into prepull, what about you guys ?

[spice spire]

Excellent RP notes

[sacred isle]

Use shroud and cancel when ppl are close

[compact pumice]

it takes like several seconds to fall off though 😦

too lenient

[sacred isle]

Guess you cought me, never done that.

[neat pulsar]

but he did 😄

[compact pumice]

Nah it's just when you notice some healer or whatever being slow in an M+ and just barely makes it past the skip and you for sure think they are gonna pull

always make it even though they suck

[fiery flume]

I haven't paid attn to rogue 9.1 changes. Is there speculation for a bis sin 9.1 pvp legendary?

[balmy condor]

#pvp would know better

[fiery flume]

ty

[odd hazel]

we the pvp champs now whispyr

[dawn ivy]

testing blindside/vigor with dashing scoundrel and 30% haste

damn near global locked like nyalotha

[balmy condor]

yeh

we're looking at EP/deeper next tier

[gusty mirage]

are we going to be dashing boys next tier?

[balmy condor]

no

[odd hazel]

Why are we moving away from BS?

[dawn ivy]

more finishers means more EP uptime

[odd hazel]

well yeah.

but like, just because it scales better im assuming?

[dawn ivy]

theres certainly something to be said for execute fights that matter

BS will probably still be the right choice for something like sylvanas

[balmy condor]

our damage isn't super heavy anything atm. It's a lot of melee/envenom, and then poisons/bleeds, so while blindside gives some ambush damage, and a couple of free cp, the consistent increase from EP is just better after a certain point of uptime. That's why we started with vigor/bs during 9.0, and now play vigor/ep with more gear and cttc giving us extra envenom casts

[gloomy knoll]

ep deeper

[balmy condor]

deeper/bs is slightly higher atm because deeper slows the spec down, which then brings BS back on the menu

with the gear from next tier, that slow down isn't enough to justify bs anymore

so BS sulks back off into the distance

[dawn ivy]

ngl i just tested EP deeper and it wasnt actually that bad

[gloomy knoll]

now add crimson tempest

[dawn ivy]

its slow, but BS doesnt actually speed things up as much as i thought

well im not using ep deeper CT

thats lunacy

[gloomy knoll]

most fights in the next tier

have ads

gonna be lots of ct

[silent fossil]

ep/vigor already only sims like 6 dps lower than bs/deeper for me. been running it for a few weeks now since it just feels smoother.

[balmy condor]

if you play CT you would also be dotting them

so

[gloomy knoll]

not if they short lived

like denny p1 ads

[balmy condor]

yeh

[gloomy knoll]

and some fights its multi target for portions

and then st for the rest

but that is with hundreds more secondary stats

so maybe it won't feel bad

[balmy condor]

I mean we're also talking not huge differences

like right now vigor/ep is slightly behind deeper/bs

but people still play it for a multitude of reasons right

[gloomy knoll]

well ep is good on quite a few fights

[balmy condor]

deeper/bs will still have it's place probably

[gloomy knoll]

and people just play vigor with it because it's smoother

[balmy condor]

and vigor will probably have it's place too

[gloomy knoll]

but on some fights ep + deeper is the play

like council

people just don't do it cuz it feels worse

[balmy condor]

yeh

[gloomy knoll]

same reason outlaws don't play gs i guess

the feels are too stronk

[odd hazel]

can you blame them though? its barely a increase so why not just play the easier thing when you're barely losing any thing?

just curious if there would ever be a point CT wins over PB on ST

[gusty mirage]

only way I can see that is in a hectic fight with constant movement

[balmy condor]

there is

haste enables that

[gusty mirage]

it would have to be a ridic high amount of haste though right?

[odd hazel]

so if we get enough haste it would win?

[balmy condor]

it wouldn't have to be too ridic with zoldyck

[gusty mirage]

oh true

CT ST

[odd heath]

Iirc on bfa with corruptions CT was the same dps as PB on st at around 45-50% haste

But could be lower with zoldycks

[gusty mirage]

I'm a huge fan of CT, it's just a cool ability

[cerulean nest]

(havent done any ptr testing myself) how does rogue feel overall though? like in terms of strength compared to other melee/dps in general?

[gusty mirage]

all I can confirm about ptr is deathspike is SO much fun in torghast

[odd heath]

Me too

[gusty mirage]

esp w/ the chain power stacked and the max range sbs one

[odd heath]

I like juggling bleeds

[balmy condor]

there isn't really a huge meta shift from what I can tell

we're still strong at the same things

we're still weak at aoe

[odd hazel]

DKs got fucked with AMZ

[balmy condor]

yeh

[gloomy knoll]

Oh yea is death spike better than zdicks for sin whispyr?

[balmy condor]

yes

[gloomy knoll]

For aoe

Really?

Ew

[balmy condor]

yes

[odd heath]

Will it go live the way it is now? Difficult to tell

[gusty mirage]

well luckily they have a month and a half left of PTR

[balmy condor]

who knows

[dawn ivy]

how do you kill this boss lmfao

raid testing this boss is awful

[odd hazel]

i was kind of hoping the venthyr one would be somewhat AoE tbh, like maybing let flag hit 2 targets beside your current one

[cerulean nest]

cant wait to see what our new raid util will be

sounded like Ion was hinting at it for 9.1

but maybe thats optimistic

[dawn ivy]

i dont think theyve been insinuating they ARE giving us something

i think its been more of an example

[odd hazel]

i mean

only reason AMZ has been good

is because they like to make 90% of a raid spell damage

so it would have to be equivalent to that

[cerulean nest]

I mean he mentioned rogues specifically. seemed semi legit

[dawn ivy]

them gutting AMZ shows they dont want everyone to have big raid utility

just small stuff

[odd hazel]

yeah, you could just stack 2-3 DKs and be fine

[maiden plaza]

is zoldycks still recommended for mythic sire prog?

[thorny shore]

hey someone knows the fastest way to farm renown, changing to necro rn

[odd hazel]

LFR, M+, Campaign, Normal/heroic

just basically do as much as you can in a day or 2 and you'll be at 26-30 in no time

i think i got to like, 23? in a day or so of play time.

thats not really hard core trying either

[balmy condor]

for purely p3 damage, yes

[maiden plaza]

cheers

[drifting wing]

Hi
I've just started playing assassination rogue and was wondering, do you ever use Ambush in PVE?
It does less dmg than Garrote and costs more energy

[odd hazel]

with BS you use it when you get a proc.

!ambush

[prisma monolith]

Macroing Ambush to Mutilate only works with the use of a addon.
It comes with the downside that it often requires multiple key presss.
Suggested addon to use(Gnome Sequencer):http://tiny.cc/mxb6tz
Showcase Video: #assassination message

[odd hazel]

uh

thats not the one i wanted

!bs

[prisma monolith]

Macroing Ambush to Mutilate only works with the use of a addon.
It comes with the downside that it often requires multiple key presss.
Suggested addon to use(Gnome Sequencer):http://tiny.cc/mxb6tz
Showcase Video: #assassination message

[odd hazel]

@balmy condor halp

[balmy condor]

!mut

[prisma monolith]

Ambush is currently only used from blindside/sepsis proc, not from stealth.
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3).
Some other factors to consider are increased poison applications, blindside, and doomblade. This is true for all talent combinations and legendaries.

[odd hazel]

[drifting wing]

Oki, ty 🙂

[craggy oak]

On the topic of gutting amz, i honestly think its not because they want less raid cds, i would say its because they are relativly out of touch with their game at a functional level

Did amz need a nerf, yes, should they have murdered it, no

[dawn ivy]

i disagree im glad that ability became a personal

[craggy oak]

Why

Expand on your thought process please

[dawn ivy]

nah

[craggy oak]

Boooooooo

Is it a bigger picture reason, or because dk had something and rogue didnt

[odd hazel]

i mean

it made things easy

everything in CN was spell damage basically

so you stack that CD for the DR

and other melee like us

who bring nothing

will get put off to the side just because of AMZ

so, they gutted it because people were abusing it to make mechanics trivial

[gusty mirage]

If your strat for a boss is stack 3-4 of one class, then something’s inherently wrong with the raid design or the class design

[odd hazel]

^

Not only did DKs ahve good dps

but they had arguably the best raid DR Cooldown in the game

[gusty mirage]

Easily the best DR cd in Nathria

[odd hazel]

its not the spell tbh

its the fact

thjey make everything spell damage

[gusty mirage]

Plus a better version of cloak

[odd hazel]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[gusty mirage]

And having multiple DKs made the traps on xymox a joke

[odd hazel]

yeah, bring that and a few mages and it was a joke

[gusty mirage]

Am I a little butthurt we got nothing? Sure. But DK utility was obnoxiously strong

[odd hazel]

i dont think we needed change. we just need something to make us worth bringing

instead of just raw damage

[gusty mirage]

Idk if it deserved to be rendered useless, but that’s typical blizzard. Swing the hammer one way or another. Remember how strong aura mastery Devo was in BFA? Now it’s a joke

[odd hazel]

they have no clue how to balance things tbh.

they either make something RIDICULOUSLY strong

or worthless

[craggy oak]

Oh dont get me wrong dks amz needed a big nerf and as a dk main i agree 100%

[odd hazel]

the problem wasnt the spell it self

it was the fact they made CN all spell damage

[craggy oak]

Yes and no

[odd hazel]

you make a raid 90% physical damage and its worthless

[craggy oak]

It was that there dmg profile is insane, and the cd itself ciuld be used ever 45 secs with 3 or 4 dks

Hense 4 were brought

[odd hazel]

yes but, if we are talking about the CD only. All of CN is basically spell damage and the fact the class can make one of the main mechanics of a boss pretty much trivial. They gutted it for a good reason but they gutted it because they didn't realize it was their fault in the first place it was used so much.

[craggy oak]

All thats gunna happen now is whatever is best melee for 9.1 3 or 4 of them will be brought and community will cry murder until that class/spec is nerfed

[odd hazel]

wouldnt need to nerf a specific class if every class had a reason to be brought

[craggy oak]

Ah

But that would never work

As something will always be besg

Best

Or whatever deals the most dmg if everything had a cd or buff

[odd hazel]

it would though, in a sense. Yes, something will always be best but.

Lets think about it this way:

What do you bring?

A warrior for buff, a monk for buff, a mage for buff, a priest for buff, a shaman for Wind totem, then like 2-3 Dks for AMZ. You can just fill the rest with the big pumpers and be fine ( which were like, Priest, Boomy, And mage).

rogue bring nothing to the equation

literally nothing but raw damage

atleast one spot would be filled with the things that are needed, then just big damage dealers

and some spots can even be filled with out worrying about damage because tanks

[craggy oak]

Ye but you wouldnt bring 2 or 3 dks if cd was 4 mins

So you couldnt stack a amz every 45 secs

[odd hazel]

well no, but we still wouldnt be thought of unless we bring something

[craggy oak]

Then a sin rogue could be briught for pure st

Like not everyclass needs a cd if they bring best niche dmg

Like best execute

Best cleave

Best swap dmg ect ect

[odd hazel]

Hopefully that’s the case with the nerf

[echo cargo]

Be rogue and never have best anything

Shroud in raid

[cyan wharf]

doomblade on hands or shoulders?

[odd hazel]

Either but preferably gloves if you get shoulders from SLG

[balmy condor]

Hands

[craggy oak]

I meen rogues aee in a bit of a rough spot, but historicaly this is not the case

[balmy condor]

I don’t think they’re in a rough spot tbh

[odd hazel]

No not at all but feels@bad we don’t bring much

[craggy oak]

Rough in terms of they aint the go to spec

Class sorry

Sin fucking slaps

[odd hazel]

Besides raw damage we are meh

[balmy condor]

Outlaw is still m+ crazy

[icy ember]

it does slap, but we have 0 raid utility

[balmy condor]

Sin is raid crazy

[craggy oak]

Whispyr

Ill have none of that talk

Outlaw deserves to be put in the bin

[balmy condor]

Sure but it’s still crazy

[warped temple]

give me some hope with sub

[craggy oak]

Sin for m+ or nothing

[vestal wren]

i am actually not sure how sub ends up in m+ in 9.1

its in my opinion possible that it sees more play

[icy ember]

hopefully somewhere besides the bottom of the bottom of the board

[odd hazel]

Tbh it would be dope to see sub do well

[craggy oak]

Fuu

[balmy condor]

I’m just saying a lot of the “rogue bad” kind of stuff is just echo chambering amongst the community imo

[dull osprey]

I've been enjoying sin in m+ but seeing the nerfs to sub makes me feel sad

[craggy oak]

Sub will be the go too spec for big pull keys

[warped temple]

will def be playing it, but if outlaw is just way too good, then there will be 0 hope for sin/sub..

[craggy oak]

Like hoa and dos

[dull osprey]

My boss is a pure sub player and his is big sad

[balmy condor]

Honestly not sure

[vestal wren]

the seasonal affix decides what we will play in m+

[craggy oak]

This my feely craft btw

[balmy condor]

You aren’t pulling 8 mobs every single pull even in those keys

And the pulls where you are

Are much bigger than that

[vestal wren]

sub is good if we need to bring down a big pack or if st is relevant

[warped temple]

ardenweald is the only place sub is good in atm lol

[icy ember]

but the game is designed to be 5 npcs only, see they nerfed the aoe count so you cant damage more than 5 people 🤓

[balmy condor]

Yeh and that’s where target cap just hurts regardless

[vestal wren]

assassination is good on st and low target cleave

[craggy oak]

^^

[vestal wren]

and outlaw has its own strengths, strong st in aoe/cleave

[craggy oak]

Whatever happens at the least sub will see some m+ play

Maybe not raid

But cant have it all

[vestal wren]

the target cap is only a issue if its relevant, if we pull 10+ mobs consistantly its probably bad

[craggy oak]

Whats bad

[icy ember]

im fine w/sub not being ok in raids, i'd like it to see SOME play in M+

[craggy oak]

Sub?

[vestal wren]

pulling more mobs than aoe cap

thats bad for all target capped specs

[craggy oak]

Mages laughing

Fucking casters am i right guys

[vestal wren]

idk, you usually don't pull this big so i don't see it as a big issue

but again the seasonal affix will define how we play, so thats a big factor

[balmy condor]

Ardenweald in dos kinda really does that

Like target capped specs

Are just worthless

For a third of a dungeon

That shit fucking sucks

And sure “it’s only one dungeon”

Or “it’s only one section of one dungeon”

But just why

[final star]

remove target cap

it's really that easy

[craggy oak]

I imagine its their attempt at making the same specs not pkayed over and 9ver

[icy ember]

i fully support this idea

[final star]

????

it's the opposite effect

[craggy oak]

Ik the argument doesnt hold up when you say but fire mages

[final star]

you only play target capped specs

lol

[balmy condor]

It’s not like the non-capped specs (fire/boomy/etc) are therefore bad in lower target counts even

[final star]

non-capped*

[craggy oak]

Ikik

[balmy condor]

Like if that were the payoff

Sure

[icy ember]

i used to play outlaw, where blade flurry hit errything in the range

[balmy condor]

But it’s not

[craggy oak]

I think they just missed the mark

[balmy condor]

Like frost for example is huge single target

[final star]

yeah by adding target cap

[balmy condor]

And you give it more adds and it goes HUGER

That’s literally the shit sub got stomped into the ground for

[icy ember]

[craggy oak]

Frost mage or dk

[balmy condor]

Mage

Frost mage during council prog was doing 12k boss dps with adds up

That’s legal for some reason

[low girder]

"we added target cap to give specs more niches"

[balmy condor]

And they can be uncapped

[low girder]

fire mage and boomkin in every key

[balmy condor]

Shits fucking stupid

[craggy oak]

Buy then we have to consider "meta" story classes of wow

Like mage can not ever be nuts

As its their baby

[twin bay]

any necrolord ptr raid testers with puplic logs and the full soulbinds? had only full venthir copied

[vestal wren]

people didn't stack frost mage

so its not a issue

[twin bay]

wanna see the execute dmg 🙂

[vestal wren]

a lot of balancing is done by community perception

[untold nest]

I mean mage and boomie are also meta due to their utility kit

[indigo totem]

Is numbing poison not considered raid utility? Or did that get ninja nerfed?

[willow eagle]

It's just not that impactful

Nice to have, not mandatory

[twin bay]

ask sire tanks ^^

[polar cape]

Or sludge

[low girder]

ask sire tanks what, curse of weakness is enough

and you need a warlock anyway

[twin bay]

but the warlock masterrace cant afford to spend a gcd on a non dmg spell kekw

[uneven plume]

To be honest

If rogues were uncapped then there is no other melee dps

[indigo totem]

Does numbing no longer stack with curse?

[uneven plume]

For m+

And I’m raids we aren’t too bad

Prob the best st damage behind spriests I think

In*

[balmy condor]

It does

[winged ravine]

hey friends, feral refugee, i was wondering for crimson tempest do you solely use that as your AOE finisher like you would feral's primal wrath? or do you only keep the bleed up and finish with envenom if it doesn't need refresh?

Tried to find that info here but I had a hard time finding anything good

[uneven plume]

I think you envenom during shiv windows

And CT when shiv is on cd

[stoic needle]

In aoe you maintain ct like a dot, you don't use it over and over

Otherwise you spread Ruptures on anything that lives longer than 4 seconds

And envenom to extend snd or when things are imminently dying

[winged ravine]

okay sweet, i'm so used to spamming my aoe finisher and i was getting some dps i didn't like and wondered if i might be doing the wrong thing

thanks, y'all!

[uneven plume]

Sin in keys takes a bit to get down

[stoic needle]

Imagine if ct did extra damage to targets already affected by CT

[winged ravine]

yeah it seems pretty intricate, i really like it

[dawn ivy]

sin in keys is mostly rupture garrote fok and ct

[stoic needle]

Like if it did 50% of it's duration in damage to things already with ct on them

[uneven plume]

Sin is great on fort high keys

Cause shit lives longer for ruptures

And aoe is pretty good too

[winged ravine]

i've noticed, seems like ramp is pretty big for assassination so things dying fast makes my details

[uneven plume]

Yah on tyran it’s usually slower

Because mobs die really fast with everyone’s gear now

[balmy condor]

@stoic needle I’ll do you one better, what if using CT on targets already affected by garrote, rupture and CT, make CT consume its remaining duration, exploding in an aoe around the target for the damage left

[stoic needle]

[uneven plume]

And the explosion is uncapped

😄

[winged ravine]

i got told to play this because feral is apparently a really poor copy of this spec, and in keys feral is just....really really not fun, and pretty bad on damage

and it seems like a fucking blast so far, flagellation is amazing

[dawn ivy]

oh we're all bone boys now flag is so 2018

[balmy condor]

Ah see, we play this because if we were to play feral, people would tell us to heal, or Boomie, or tank, or anything other than feral

[uneven plume]

I think necro in keys is even better

[balmy condor]

[next shale]

Hey when is it better to run cube over like dreadfire or chain, and how do you use it? Obvi in opener but then just on cd or what?

[winged ravine]

i noticed people were swapping to necro on subcreation but i don't know if i'm ready to give up my haste buff

[balmy condor]

Syncing with vendetta for stats

[fleet whale]

covenants aren't really that big of a deal for sin

[balmy condor]

You want to use it with a passive trinket normally

Like phial+iqd

Or chain+iqd

But that’s really a sim question

[next shale]

There’s no way we hold vendetta a minute to line up, so do you just use it solo at 3min and then stacked again at 6

Or do you hold cube for the 4min vendetta

[dawn ivy]

you know im almost jealous of other classes whose covenants are so unblanced that 2 or three are unplayable

[balmy condor]

This

[dawn ivy]

i wish we had a covenant ability that was so busted it made the other three look trash

[fleet whale]

unless if the fight is like 3.5 mins long

[proper tapir]

In keys do you aim for low cp ruptures?

[fleet whale]

then you use cube on cd obviously

[balmy condor]

No

[royal lantern]

Wait until 9.1 is 1-2 weeks away, swapping now is not really smart cus Balance changes can happen

[ruby birch]

You never do low cp anything

[uneven plume]

You should get easy 5 cp from FoK

[fleet whale]

low cp snd

maybe

[next shale]

Gotcha, I was asking about what’s better because sometimes patchwork is not real when looking at actual fights with mechanics

[balmy condor]

What happened to exsang enthusiast

I thought we had something

A special bond

[ruby birch]

Sub stonks in 9.1 :(

[balmy condor]

I loved you

:(

[fleet whale]

is gloomblade meta in 9.1?

[ruby birch]

Do you...

[twin bay]

@royal lantern just go full nolife and prep all 4 cov. in the downtime 😄

[ruby birch]

Not love me anymore

[uneven plume]

I still miss those 90% haste days with exsang

[ruby birch]

[toxic quail]

YES DUDE

[stoic needle]

honestly feral has things that i wish sin had

bring back snapshotting

[low girder]

just play NS

[toxic quail]

i wish Envenom hit like FB

[winged ravine]

assassination has things i wish feral had, mostly damage

[toxic quail]

my alt is Feral and im like HOW

[balmy condor]

You’ve changed... back to what you were previously, after the thing that you were before what you were previously, when I met you, and loved you then, and loved you after that which is the thing you were, and now are, so yes I still do

[winged ravine]

feral is pretty fun in raids, i've liked it a lot this patch but it feels awful in keys imo

and i prefer m+ so

[ruby birch]

[uneven plume]

Feral is filthy on Sludge

[winged ravine]

i'm looking for a similar spec that actually does aoe damage

[fleet whale]

the feral and sin comparison is obvious, but I feel sin is basically a petless unholy dk

[ruby birch]

Whispyrs the best, never judges my enthusiasm

[uneven plume]

Rogue has three pretty good aoe spec

[winged ravine]

yeah feral is fucking nasty on sludge, lot of fun

[balmy condor]

This ain’t it cowboy

[winged ravine]

it does more than feral while feeling like feral, and does more ST than feral for raids so

[uneven plume]

Sub in nw and sd can pump hard as well

[winged ravine]

i'm happy enough

[balmy condor]

Well then that’s what matters

[winged ravine]

i'm not looking for the perfect solution, just fun times

[balmy condor]

Enjoy the transition from “boomy?” declined to “outlaw?” declined

[winged ravine]

LOL NO

oh no i didn't think about that

[balmy condor]

It’s okay they usually just see yellow and are happy

[fleet whale]

I guess it depends on what you are pushing, but people have rarely auto declined me for the spec i've played

and this has gone for all of M+ since legion

[balmy condor]

usually

[uneven plume]

I’m BFA rogues got insta inv

In*

S4

[balmy condor]

I’ve had a guy decline me because I was sin and not outlaw

[winged ravine]

i mostly do keys with friends so that won't be an issue in all seriousness, and i never really go above like....16-17 keys so i'm okay with not playing the pirate spec for big dam

[fleet whale]

i mean i'm sure it happens

[balmy condor]

And then the fucking other rogue in the group

Whisper’d me

And was like “yo sorry thanks for helping me learn sin”

[fleet whale]

but i think people look at IO more than spec

[balmy condor]

[uneven plume]

I just don’t tell them my spec lmao

[balmy condor]

Never fucking lucky