if you're doing 3 pillars on heroic you would hold for 1/3
#assassination
balmy condor
balmy condor
whats the top one?
royal lantern
dreadfire imo
alpine latch
roflmao
astral plover
astral plover
i fking hate double on use
balmy condor
double on use is really good on sludge
astral plover
Could macro IQD to Vandetta, and Dread to Toxic Blade
balmy condor
yeah that doesn't sound good
astral plover
hater
balmy condor
you're going to cast dread on shivs that aren't on pillars
which then just ruins the entire point of running it in the first place
so
if you can't be fucked running double on use
then just run dreadfire and a passive
or IQD and a passive
and call it a day
astral plover
When do u use double on use?
balmy condor
on pillars
astral plover
Good answer
astral plover
Palmer knows whats up
astral plover
Same
alpine latch
On use trinkets can suck it
astral plover
MY MAN
hazy crater
muted ridge
yo guys, is there any bug with Flag? During tonights raid I noticed multiple times that I lose Haste right when it should be up
after first 12 sec
balmy condor
I don't think there's any bugs on live
muted ridge
happend to me twice so far
alpine latch
I really need to get a fucking Phial 😦
I don't care if it's from a +2, I have the valor to boost it to 220
strange python
with elaborate planning, do i wait till it drops before using envenom or use it just before it drops?
rotund wigeon
MA opener on council?
stoic needle
with elaborate planning, do i wait till it drops before using envenom or use it ...
you don't play around the ep buff
strange python
not opener just general
strange python
you don't play around the ep buff
why not?
stoic needle
because it's not worth playing around?
you envenom at max energy - 30, or asap during shiv/vendetta/flag
pooling energy outside of cds, or dumping as many envenoms as possible during them is more important than playing around EP
alpine latch
I feel like every time I'm supposed to be pooling, garrote and rupture are about to fall off
strange python
pooling energy outside of cds, or dumping as many envenoms as possible during th...
but during this time you can time envenom around EP
stoic needle
when you pool energy you naturally play around EP
and when it's not worth it, ie, during cds, you don't
tropic echo
does fae guardians reduce vendetta's cd enough to where you can line it up with flag?
loud light
fae gives 20 seconds of cdr and has a 1:30 cd so it wouldn't quite work out without delays
kindred crescent
any word on what the rogue utility they plan on brining in 9.1
stoic needle
no
unreal parcel
I wonder if bringing smoke bomb back as a raid cd would be the right play?
I loved when we had that
compact pumice
if it's unchanged from how it was it wont matter that much
i.e. 10% DR for 6 sec on a 3 min cd
unreal parcel
I think its was 20% no?
compact pumice
vestal wren
its likely not the same
hasty loom
im looking at swapping from Outlaw to assasination, ANy guides you guys recomend for ST and AOE rotation
stoic needle
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
hasty loom
Any video guides sorry i should have mentioned
strange python
im looking at swapping from Outlaw to assasination, ANy guides you guys recomend...
Infexious Rogue Guides on YT
hasty loom
TY
fallow solar
Do you guys think Necro is BiS for last 3 bosses in Nath?
tulip nacelle
last 2 yes
stoic needle
Infexious Rogue Guides on YT
Absolutely not
hasty loom
you reccomend one?
stoic needle
Theredrogue or justruss make good ones
strange python
oh if people hate Infexious then ok 😄 I don't specifically follow his guides, i just watch as many as I can then work my way around them 😄
balmy condor
oh if people hate Infexious then ok 😄 I don't specifically follow his guides, i...
Yeah....... don’t do that
strange python
i'll take a look at this redrogue and justruss tho
potent rune
@hasty loom venth and necro are good, necro aoe/cleave (though not far from venth in st) and venth for single target
gloomy knoll
@balmy condor do you know if the final soulbinds are supported by ptr sims yet?
balmy condor
They definitely aren’t
gloomy knoll
sadge
balmy condor
Hold on I’ll give a screenshot
fallow solar
How about sludgefists dmg amp, flag still better there?
gloomy knoll
bonespike is better for sludge than flag
balmy condor
drifting cloud
ok, and what about passive stats from venthyr soulbinds?
vestal wren
flag does not line up super well thats probably the main agrument
drifting cloud
just ignore those :d
balmy condor
I mean what about heirmir crit on pillars
drifting cloud
doesnt line up
balmy condor
We can go in circles about this
vestal wren
i think both are valid/good choices
drifting cloud
Ive killed the boss as both covenants like 3 times I think venthyr is easily better
I dont see how you can do 9k as necro on sludge
vestal wren
there are a lot of good arguments for necrolord, but it rly comes down to what you want to focus on
dull cloak
PI
gloomy knoll
sludge really just comes down to crits anyways
vestal wren
esp. in 9.1 you will probably decide between venthyr/necro depending on what 2ndary spec you want to play
if you want to play subtlety and assassination you probably will go venthyr over necro
stoic needle
I don't think sbs is better than flag on sludge because it does more damage on the pillars
vestal wren
if you want to play outlaw and assassination you will likely go necro over venthyr
gloomy knoll
sbs does big dam generates cheap cp and can be pooled for pillars
drifting cloud
what does that have to do with sludge
stoic needle
utlaw
gloomy knoll
so much cleave in the raid
low girder
it's pretty shit on the things you'd play outlaw on
vestal wren
so you can play both and maintain all 3 specs
its just likely that you want to use a certain one for a specific other spec
drifting cloud
like youre overthinking this so much
it just depends on a case per case basis
yeah you can always be necro, but if im progging a boss as assa where venthyr would be better ill just swap to venth
I can just swap back next week
and then it just depends how much you care about m+
ive swapped covenants like 5 times this patch already its barely a hassle
drifting cloud
yes?
gusty mirage
not if you do it before reset
drifting cloud
nice math
gloomy knoll
so 1 week
gloomy knoll
what do you mean
i'm just talking about if necro is the play for sin and it's substantially better than venthyr but venthyr is substantially better for sub then it makes it harder to play what i want
which is sin + sub
drifting cloud
then you can easily be venthyr
because necro isnt gonna be that much insanely stronger
even if the fights are better for it
gusty mirage
necro & venthyr are very close in ST damage for assa
drifting cloud
theyre not that close oxi it depends on kill timers
gusty mirage
they're pretty close.
drifting cloud
theres kill timers with iqd where venth is 200 dps better
gloomy knoll
this discussion is purely based on multi speccing
gloomy knoll
?????
bro don't join a discussion with no information
say something not relevent
and then be sarcastic
lmao
gusty mirage
You seem angry today
gloomy knoll
nah i'm chill
drifting cloud
like its so overblown like just because theres adds necro is going to be 5% better or some shit not really
gloomy knoll
true even on denny they are kind of close
drifting cloud
but anyways Id like to know why sbs is better on sludge
gloomy knoll
whispyr told me
drifting cloud
because I dont see it, maybe you can argue theyre close enough
I just dont see necro being better by any decent margin
gloomy knoll
cuz of the pooling for every pillar and with sbs
you drought on non vendetta pillars
like halfway through with flag
drifting cloud
maybe if heirmir lined up with pillars
gloomy knoll
but yea u right on necro aint go be like
insanely better
unless it's a sustained council fight
where you can damage all of them for extended durations with sbs
was overthinking it
hollow river
Can you ever pad with hidden blades
thorny pond
Sire
drifting cloud
and yeah like I said you can just swap back and forth pretty easily you just need game plan
hollow river
Or w.e the fok talent is
thorny pond
Or w.e the fok talent is
People do on sire
hollow river
Kk
low girder
i am unconvinced of HB
drifting cloud
you gotta use t he stacks otherwise whats the point of the talent
hollow river
Mm I’ve never used it so
gloomy knoll
and yeah like I said you can just swap back and forth pretty easily you just nee...
i haven't actually swapped back to a covenant i left yet, lemme get this straight so you do it the day before reset and have to wait a week starting from that reset the next day ( do you have soulbinds or anything during this week or are you legit just useless) @drifting cloud
i've been under the impression you have nothing
just kinda in limbo am i mistaken?
low girder
only if it's one you haven't been
if you're swapping back you don't leave until the second part
gloomy knoll
talking about going back to one i left
drifting cloud
its just 2 weeklies, you can have 2nd part completed in your log and it insta swaps you when you turn it in
gusty mirage
You retain everything you had before the switch
low girder
yeah
drifting cloud
like I did that last week, had it completed, killed sludge as venth, went necro for slg sire
tulip nacelle
you are never without a covenant
gusty mirage
so if you were venthyr and switched at 35 renown to Necro, and switch back to venthyr you'd start at 35 renown w/ everything you had prior including anima & souls
gloomy knoll
after a week
fallow solar
Well the race is on for me, 5 days to go 1 to 40 renown... Can i make it before raid...
gloomy knoll
or as soon as you finish the quest?
gusty mirage
as soon as you finish the 2nd quest
so on reset you just fill the bar to 100% turn it in and you're back
gloomy knoll
what's the week wait for then?
tulip nacelle
one reset has to happen
gusty mirage
it just takes 1 reset period, what most people do is do the first quest and turn it in before reset
drifting cloud
its a weekly quest that you have to do twice
gusty mirage
then on reset they do and turn in the 2nd quest
gloomy knoll
and then ur just good
gusty mirage
yea
drifting cloud
and after you swap you cant pickup the swap back since yeah its a weekly
gusty mirage
yeah you could legit make it 2-3 days
tulip nacelle
can be 2 hours
gusty mirage
^
gusty mirage
and normal dungeons count toward the % bar
gloomy knoll
i thought you had a forced 1 week waiting period where you had no soulbind
gusty mirage
so you could just spam like halls of atonement normal twice and do 1 WQ and bam 100%
takes like 40 minutes tops
gusty mirage
because for some reason a dungeon give you 48% 
frigid kestrel
That’s the pain in the ass that I didn’t know about
drifting cloud
its 12% per boss yeah
gusty mirage
that's such an odd number lol
but I mean its not too big of a hassle, just run a normal twice and you're done
w/ one WQ
gloomy knoll
only hastle i guess is
drifting cloud
you just cant swap back twice in a week
gusty mirage
yeah you'd have to grind out renown before raid
gloomy knoll
for additional soulbinds and what not
but i probably honestly wouldn't swap
unless it was like
last 2-3 bosses
unless it was like insanely better
drifting cloud
I mean depends how much renown you will need
gloomy knoll
like 15-20 to get last soulbind i think
and then more for enhanced soulbinds after that but
frigid kestrel
Ye I swapped back to Venth for Sludge prog and that Tuesday I went to pick up the necro quest so I would have a head start on swapping back .... and Blizz was like naw
gloomy knoll
don't quote me on that tho haven't checked in a bit
frigid kestrel
So the swap back will be two weeks legit
gusty mirage
yeah you can't do more than 1 weekly quest a week
placid pagoda
Best ST opener for venth assa ?
tulip nacelle
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
placid pagoda
Not using MA hence overlooked it
tulip nacelle
subt is right under it
placid pagoda
Yeah I miss read
Any decent bleed tracker addons or WA? can’t seem to find anything
hollow river
look up the red rogue's progress bars
placid pagoda
Was seeing if there was anything more simple
hollow river
along with Afenar's Rogue WA
hollow river
afenar's is a bit of a cluster. until you get used to it.
hollow river
that's why i also use the red rogue's
placid pagoda
As in does it show you bleed time
placid pagoda
Or just Cooldown on spell
hollow river
yeah easy
i use both because i do some m+ when i can and its harder to use afenar's when i'm tab targetting that much.
placid pagoda
i use both because i do some m+ when i can and its harder to use afenar's when i...
Yeah for sure
hollow river
the red rogue's is just nice bright progress bars easy to peripheral vision what i have up very quickly.
placid pagoda
the red rogue's is just nice bright progress bars easy to peripheral vision what...
Yeah very, maybe i’ll give them another go
hollow river
you could also try tweeking the colors/size to your liking
i changed it around a little bit i believe
hollow river
been thinking about simping and getting Atrocity's WA pack
yes you can. and position etc.
shy dust
Id recommend it
hollow river
Id recommend it
you use it?
placid pagoda
Id recommend it
Atrocity’s?
shy dust
yes
hollow river
member of Complexity Limit
he has a ElvUI/WA pack for every spec in the game. details, plater, WAs, everything done and coded for you and it looks pretty dang good.
placid pagoda
Will try it out for sure
hollow river
you have to sub to him for at least 1 month on Twitch to get it though lol
hollow river
LOL
it's tempting
oo
there's also Quazii
he's done the same thing, for all specs. not quite as good but it's free
i haven't tried them out yet.
but they look nice.
dull osprey
If I'm running crimson tempest for m+, do I maintain the bleed during ST?
gusty mirage
you can, @balmy condor simmed it and it doesn't matter either way
it's like a small dps difference
slender trail
If I'm running crimson tempest for m+, do I maintain the bleed during ST?
yes, outside shiv window
dull osprey
Gotcha
last flume
Do we shiv right after garrote and rupture? Or do we sneak in crimson tempest before shiv?
dull osprey
I feel like I'm inclined to try that because I don't have the right legendary rn
I'm running doomblade until I can get the zold
fierce eagle
hey guys for mythic council do you only want to keep bleeds up on one other member for energy regen? or all 3
balmy condor
Up to 5 bleeds technically
But that’s very hard most of the time
So just the boss you’re hitting + 1 more
fierce eagle
yeah i was thinking 3 would be a dps loss on the main focus target
balmy condor
Do we shiv right after garrote and rupture? Or do we sneak in crimson tempest be...
Shiv before
fierce eagle
tyty
last flume
Shiv before
Would that also mean that if shiv is up and CT has expired, shiv + envenom rotation has priority after opener?
balmy condor
Naturally
You don’t CT during shiv windows in single target
And the only thing you need to cast shiv
Is rupture running
So I’m your opener, you mut, gar, rup
Then rup is going, which means you shiv
And durin shiv you don’t CT
So you would CT after
last flume
Perfect. Thanks for the clarification!
balmy condor
Np
dawn ivy
so heirmir just has an extra damage trait where seemingly everyone else does not
balmy condor
Yeh
dawn ivy
thats kinda spicy
mellow hornet
So what's the general consensus, do you guys prefer the Necro playstyle or Venthyr?
mellow hornet
I've been experimenting a bit with both (two rogues) and I do like the necro playstyle more myself.
slow marsh
I mean venthyr is fine too
wise fiber
So on SLUDGE mythic i see on WL. people go with memories of past sins instead of IQD. is that better then?
dawn ivy
is mnemonic equipment working correctly on ptr? im not sure its doing as much as i think it should
balmy condor
hard to tell
silent tinsel
So seeing how poison bomb is a mere 2%, ive been thinking of one of the other 2 for sire
balmy condor
CT is good
hollow river
so i finally got off my lazy bum and finished campaign and got Heirmir
how do i get Emeni?
balmy condor
there's a quest chain for emeni
dawn ivy
abom factory starting quest
spice spire
Isn’t heirmir goated tho
dawn ivy
yeah but i dont think enemi is that bad
especially if youre setting it up for another spec
spice spire
That’s super fair
hollow river
ty
orchid valley
mint anvil
If flag is about to run out, is it worth doing a 3 combo point finisher under flag or just keeping it for a 4-5 cp not under flag
spice spire
If flag is about to run out, is it worth doing a 3 combo point finisher under fl...
Nothing changes, just keep for a 4-5 point (assuming vigor and not deeper strat)
spice spire
Any time, best of luck papi 
silent tinsel
How do you CT in ST?
frail fossil
u keep close to 100% uptime on it
mental isle
What’s the ability that makes sin good in execute?
balmy condor
blindside and zoldyck
honest vessel
does numbing poison work in raid at all? bosses too or just adds if so
balmy condor
yes, it slows attack speed
honest vessel
even bosses? thats kinda nutty
balmy condor
it stacks with the warlock curse of weakness
which is also just stronger
cause we get nothing unique :(
polar vigil
bis consume oils or stone?
balmy condor
bis consume oils or stone?
!oil
prisma monolithBOT
Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ
polar vigil
Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/...
tyvm! 🙂
balmy condor
np
frigid kestrel
Stupid question
can we CoS the knock back on SLG
When someone else dunks the ball?
wise fiber
Question on Sludge Mythic. do we pre vendetta on pillar. or just as it hits?
mint anvil
Yeh, usually just save cloak for removing bleeds without getting stunned
balmy condor
Question on Sludge Mythic. do we pre vendetta on pillar. or just as it hits?
shouldn't matter as long as the entire pillar has vendetta
frigid kestrel
that's an oddly specific thing to want to cloak
Just curious since deaths advance works we could dunk orbs faster
It would give me like 2 dunks back to back
Dont need to, but thought it would be cool
faint harness
which is also just stronger
It’s weird to me how warlocks have gateway, healthstone and for some reason 5% stronger aa reduction
What’s the point
balmy condor
quartz walrus
first legendary zoldyc?
balmy condor
first legendary zoldyc?
yeh
quartz walrus
also we have cloak Kappa
royal lantern
but at least we have evasion right
dont forget that our best deffensive ability gets the symbols of hope cd reduction
CRIMSON VIAL
low girder
1 minute off a 30s cd
low girder
that does dmg
royal lantern
its negative dmg
the dmg the images do is so low, you litearlly lose dps cus it triggers a gcd
its about the 20%dr
for 45sec
silent tinsel
How the hell do you decide to cttc with CT
royal lantern
great blizz tbh
low girder
i had a list somewhere, one sec
sour wraith
How the hell do you decide to cttc with CT
if snd is going to fall off, use envenom over ct
low girder
great blizz tbh
royal lantern
they put all the strong shit on it
silent tinsel
Vial? 
low girder
rogues are just awkward
'cause they won't do an immunity
so it's evasion, feint, or vial
sour wraith
vanish 
low girder
lmao
royal lantern
so it's evasion, feint, or vial
but hey, lets reduce the 45sec 20%dr 2min cd skill
silent tinsel
Evasion should give 50% physical reduction
low girder
not to argue havoc DH is like, really strong in raid rn
'cause it's not
but blur is already a 1m cd
royal lantern
litearlly
WHY VIAL
even feint would be better
but like
crimson fking vial
the worst selfheal in the game
silent tinsel
Remember when they said we could pickpocket special vial augments in SL?
royal lantern
i mean
im happy that this is not a thing
cus we know how smart blizz is sometimes
and that would mean 30min pickpocket farming before each raid lol
silent tinsel
Whats the worse they could do?
royal lantern
40%heal and your entire energy bar
low girder
raid utility is banned
royal lantern
low girder
only self cds
faint harness
When I look at that list, they fucked rogues and hunters
Exhileration isn’t very good either
low girder
hunters are just fucked in general lmao
faint harness
True
low girder
'cause it's either exhil or turtle
royal lantern
Desperate prayer instead of like dispersion
you know that only shadow has that
right
low girder
and they can't do turtle
thorny heart
Make it reduce the cd on power infusion Kappa
royal lantern
desperate prayer is the shit deff cd all priest specs have
thorny heart
@royal lantern Yeah, but they made the ability spec specific with other classes
faint harness
They are giving rogues another endurance conduit tho
Perhaps it’s some vial buff
Like absorb shield, dr or whatever
stoic needle
Where'd you see that?
faint harness
Morgan said they are still yet to add endurance conduits to 9.1
Some classes (like rogue) only has 3
And in 9.1 you can literally equip 4 endurance
So we would just have a hole
stoic needle
Oh interesting
silent tinsel
How high does recuperator go in 9.1?
stoic needle
Burst of speed
stoic needle
What about one that makes feint actually work on shit in the raid
faint harness
Yea and that linear scaling is low
Goes to rank 11 if you include enhanced version
silent tinsel
Reduces feint cd instead of energy reduction
misty holly
Reduces feint cd instead of energy reduction
Feint didn't even used to have a cooldown. That would be some bullshit to add a cooldown then make use choose a power to reduce it again.
wise fiber
Im really freaking dumb. i was wondering why i wasnt doint all that well in council and SLG. just realized we switch leggos... damn...
drifting cloud
not gonna make a difference on council
safe barn
longer cd no energy cost feint = wonderful for me
stoic needle
so, an even worse version of feint
dull osprey
Does mastery affect envenom? I just tried testing it but one set has decent mastery and the other has decent vers for pvp so I don't really get a good read
balmy condor
it does
stoic needle
spice spire
stop this 
carmine token
I am trying to make sense of the Pin about covenant sims. Is the covenant sim picking the best covenant soulbind for the sim in addition to the actual covenant ability?
Under the Aoe/Cleave sims: the title of the one says NF Koryn , but then underneath the sims are each covenant with numbers. Just a bit confused
carmine token
That much I understand
balmy condor
so necrolord uses heirmir, venthyr uses either nadjia or theotar depending, kyrian uses either pelagos or mikanikos
carmine token
carmine token
yeah i didnt highlight that either but same thing
balmy condor
because I simmed it with korayn
and people were like "oh but it's sustained aoe and korayn is only on new mobs so korayn sucks, sim it with herbs"
which was fair
so I did that
but then I had to distinguish between herbs and korayn for dslice sims
since korayn is the better option there
carmine token
so you pointed out the NF sim but basically the parameters changed for each one based on soulbind + covenant
I was just asking because it seemd to represent some sort of , idk? baseline? or something
balmy condor
well the rest are all the same setup I'm pretty sure
I didn't change soulbinds for the others
but herbs/korayn is such a large swing that I had to change it and make a note of it
carmine token
got it
balmy condor
like the sustained aoe sims with korayn were idk 4.5 or 5% worse than with herbs
so that's obviously pretty misleading
carmine token
Is there an easy way to sim my own ST and AOE damage from switching covenants?
final star
Yes
balmy condor
you can change soulbinds in top gear
and then just change the fight type as you need
carmine token
oh snaps okay
balmy condor
there's a little checkbox to unlock all soulbind
loud trench
I can’t believe it took me this long to swap to sin for st fights on reclear weeks. This spec is awesome and I feel like I’m not tracking 600 things like outlaw
balmy condor
I can’t believe it took me this long to swap to sin for st fights on reclear wee...
glad you're enjoying it
carmine token
there's a little checkbox to unlock all soulbind
does this basically change the flagg for bonespear?
i guess ill run it and find out
balmy condor
well if you change soulbinds, it doesn't sim something like sepsis with heirmir
since that's not possible
carmine token
Gotcha. Thanks Whisp , to switch to necro from venth:
+138dps (dslice) for multiple targets
+156dps (patchwerk) for ST
balmy condor
you gain dps switching from venth to necro in single target?
that seems questionable
carmine token
according to this sim
balmy condor
link it?
carmine token
oh derp
balmy condor
carmine token
that lashing scars real great
dawn ivy
that build scares me
balmy condor
oh yeah I'm terrified of that
carmine token
carmine token
ive been just derping around with it haha
final star
Want us to fix it
balmy condor
yeah that dungeonslice is reasonable
final star
carmine token
I do not use those talents for ST, i just didnt put the sim parameters in correctly :)
balmy condor
yeh yeh
copied over a profile
happens all the time when I do advanced sims for pins and stuff
balmy condor
do a single target sim, stitch all the results together, then realize it's running crimson tempest
carmine token
okay let me login and fix soulbinds, talents and leggo for a better ST sim
since a /simc is easier than maybe derping around and waiting for sim timer
dawn ivy
lmfao i never knew you can link a sim thats being ran
carmine token
i usually sim without party buffs https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/tZDnkAQ1ynrdhpjY4b54Gi
carmine token
to switch to necro from venth:
+138dps (dslice) for multiple targets
-120dps (pw) for ST
well
ish
oh wait the sidegrade tells me its +5
final star
necro also allows u to play outlaw in aoe
carmine token
how interesting
balmy condor
buffs benefit venthyr more
bloodlust especially
nadjia giving haste, flag multiplying it, and bloodlust multiplying the two of those again
quite good
(in this case like 0.4% but ya know)
"quite good" in relative terms
carmine token
i actually have been enjoying 'sin in m+. ran some 15's tonight working on my ksm and popped 5k dps each run. I do like outlaw, but i grabbed a 226 dagger from my box, so until i hit ksm, i wont be able to upgrade my sword to 220, so im just running sin.
although adds die really fast, it's an interesting way to play
balmy condor
as long as you enjoy it
carmine token
I like outlaw, but the randomness kind of bums me out sometimes
final star
Play whatever you feel like at the time
carmine token
i love hitting like 4 rtb procs nad feeling like a god
carmine token
to me anyways, i'm fairly new to the class - so i have to really watch my CP and rtb buffs so that i can react in time to not miss gcds
with sin its just tab target, apply dots, rinse repeat, use stuff off CD, move to next pack
final star
Outlaw does have complexity, especially as necrolord
A lot of people who are trying rogue now say that it's tough
carmine token
I actually went venth initially because i knew rogue would take some getting used to and venth was easier
final star
I went venthyr til I realised how far ahead necro was for outlaw
And just how little behind it was venthyr
carmine token
i looked at bloodmallet and some other sims to decide. I figured regardless of what the sims say, ill still play it subpar, so i picked the easier thing to learn. Now that i've been raiding a couple months and doing M+, thinking of going necrolord and seeing what this bonespike is all about
final star
Bonespike good
balmy condor
bonespike is a lot more fun imo
dawn ivy
the black horse is the NF leggo getting a rework
i cant imagine they let it be as bad as it is
final star
1-99 ranks
devout hazel
yo
in the shiv window
is like 9 seconds
and ur rupture is 6 seconds left
u reapply rupture
or keep putting envenoms
on the shiv window
hollow escarp
you should reapply before shiv
devout hazel
or its like 11 sec rupture
hollow escarp
but
hollow escarp
it's fine to reapply rupture at 2-3 sec left after shiv falls off
as long as it is in pandemic window
balmy condor
there's actually nothing sim wise that stops rupturing during shivs
balmy condor
yeh
hollow escarp
also, if you have doomblade, you don't want to envenom if rupture is off
devout hazel
and
hollow escarp
so apply rupture
balmy condor
just reapply in pandemic, and it should be fine
devout hazel
is worth to reapply a fast rupture
balmy condor
no
devout hazel
like 3 combo
balmy condor
no
hollow escarp
if vigor
devout hazel
cuz my mutilate always finish with 4 combo point
final star
you don't mut
devout hazel
i have a lot of questions
balmy condor
well
devout hazel
yea thats why
devout hazel
vigor
devout hazel
what is better deper or vigor
final star
sim
devout hazel
cuz i feel slow with deeper
final star
they are within ~10-15dps for my own character
hollow escarp
they are within ~10-15dps for my own character
mine are less than 5 dps 
final star
I haven't checked mine since I got IQD
devout hazel
im siming
devout hazel
70 more dps
final star
devout hazel
yea
final star
3dps
balmy condor
blindside/vigor is a no-no
balmy condor
it's either ep/vigor or blindside/deeper
stoic needle
I remember bs/vigor at the beginning of the expansion 
final star
13dps difference
devout hazel
sdo
blindside deeper
is better
this gonna be so much diference
now
i never play at 6 combo
i start like 3 weeks ago sin
dawn ivy
its a lot slower
balmy condor
I mean idk if that's gonna make a giga difference
dawn ivy
you gotta get used to it
balmy condor
you're still running 220's and don't have 233 daggers, only 210 doomblade, and 1 socket
so
dawn ivy
i assume he means difference in playstyle
final star
you literally cannot
balmy condor
i assume he means difference in playstyle
yeah you can't just wakeup and go "well I'm gonna rank 1 today"
at least not with that gear
balmy condor
I assume you're not in a guild that has the ability to speed kill
hollow escarp
purple is fine
balmy condor
I mean 95's are gonna be possbile
devout hazel
but my guild kill it in 3 phases
balmy condor
but anything higher than like 98
good luck
need some good rng
or a pocket priest I guess works
final star
yes I just looked at ur hc parses
but hc is largely irrelevant
if you are doing mythic
devout hazel
but i cant to mythic my guild
balmy condor
oh we're talking heroic parses?
devout hazel
dont do reclear
devout hazel
i want to parse mythic so hard
final star
then keep looking
final star
I found a new guild in 2 days
with 4/10
and did SLG prog
It's not as hard as you think
just stop applying to only 10/10 guild when u have 0 experience
hollow escarp
why spam?
cerulean nest
what is happening in here lol
devout hazel
nah
balmy condor
self-promotion is against the rules
balmy condor
but this is getting pretty weird
dawn ivy
i am confused where things are going
dawn ivy
so cool
hollow escarp
devout hazel
idk what is happening
low girder
make MA 75% 
balmy condor
why stop at 75
final star
just get IQD 
hollow escarp
IQD baseline
final star
wonder how far ahead venthyr is for me now
dawn ivy
i gain 50 dps if i hard swap to venthyr
dawn ivy
yeah i changed only the soulbind, no talents or gear
my 233 ring is actually good on necro where its basically a null gain compared to 220 on venthyr
dawn ivy
i think ep/vigor difference is smaller for necro
kind veldt
Quick question, is it still worth to pop shiv even if youre max CP? so you dont ever have to hold it
final star
yes
devout hazel
huge
stoic needle
It's about 5 dps for me
hazy crater
stats work in mysterious ways
strange python
37 for me as venthyr
hazy crater
yes
limber lion
Yep
final star
guess more vault options good
reef axle
The difference between both necro and venth are so small, from what I’ve gathered so far, necro is better so it doesn’t put us in a pure single target 1 mob situation.
reef axle
Last I checked was about 1%
limber lion
Just go for Necro, death to Theotar
limber lion
Last I checked was about 1%
The sims don't account for the Theotar potion cheese
reef axle
I’m assuming something like that seems un intentional, would think a fix will be in its future 🤔
limber lion
Definitely.
final star
Yes
limber lion
Hopefully.
final star
There is no way it won't be fixed
gaining the benfits of one soulbind whilst using another is pretty unintended
tribal hornet
Guys, can someone help me with an aoe opener with MA legendary? Also a question, does ma legendary make subterfuge talent kinda useless? New to rogue, sry if my question is dumb
balmy condor
Guys, can someone help me with an aoe opener with MA legendary? Also a question,...
With MA, you’d want to play with mfd and NS
In that build, you would mfd into a CT from stealth (if you don’t already have 4cp)
And then fok into ruptures for the rest of the ma window
So CT, fok rup fok rup
Then weaving garrotes in and continuing to dot things like normal
tribal hornet
Thank you very much! Huge help
balmy condor
polar stag
hello, does the asssa spec have downtime. Like waiting for the energy to regen ?
desert inlet
ye
polar stag
Is it a lot of downtime like feral ?
desert inlet
It's better when there's more than one target so you have more bleeds to give more energy back
polar stag
cuz if its a annoying spec, then i'll stay with my outlaw :c
desert inlet
There's a simc chart somewhere. Sin is second in downtime behind feral. I think that's on st
I like sin better than outlaw. I play fury when I want to slap my keyboard
But that's entirely personal preference
limber lion
cuz if its a annoying spec, then i'll stay with my outlaw :c
Yes, Assassination has quite a bit of downtime, especially in single target. If you enjoy spamming buttons, then assassination isn't necessarily the spec for you.
timber basalt
assa has way less downtime compared to feral imho
i'm actually super tilted when i play my feral now after experiencing the bliss that is venomous wounds
limber lion
assa has way less downtime compared to feral imho
Yes, Feral has a lot more downtime if you don't owlweave, but once you start doing that it gets pretty damn quick.
night bronze
hi, im about to start sludge MM with my guild, any advice for the fight ?
tulip nacelle
shiv once on pillar and once between each pillar, pool for pillars, refresh gar and rup before he charges, vendetta pull/2/4
gloomy fern
have a on use trink for every pillar 
timber basalt
Yes, Feral has a lot more downtime if you don't owlweave, but once you start doi...
the problem with owlweaving is that it feels so clunky
shapeshifting being on the gcd means you basically "waste" two gcds
whole mason
hi, im about to start sludge MM with my guild, any advice for the fight ?
eat the stone before the 3rd charge and potion before 4th.
Survive is more important before you really thinking about dmg
hollow bridge
anyone know why i craft Doomblade on shoulders and not on gloves?
or should i craft on gloves? 😄
hollow bridge
thanks
i did check pins, im just blind
Death's Whispyr — 03/14/2021
Single Target Covenant Comparison:
Doomblade on hands, talents: 3320021, WPS on non-lashing sims
okay im just blind, sorry thanks!
strange python
gloves cause u have good shoulders from SLG
limber lion
There's actually several mentions of it
Here's another one from the FaQ
But yeh no worries
iron hound
Does downtime rate reduce with higher haste %?
limber lion
Not really that much.
ornate lake
Anybody here who tested SoD yet? Kinda wondering if rogues are okay next tier. How is our position in the meta? Any improvements?
limber lion
You won't feel the difference between 20 and 28% haste for example
ornate lake
Havent seen the promising "rogue utility smoke bomb change" yet 😦
limber lion
Anybody here who tested SoD yet? Kinda wondering if rogues are okay next tier. H...
Looking good so far, Assassination pumps.
ornate lake
Oh really. You think we're getting higher prio than DK's with AMZ nerf? (I know im a bit spitballing here)
Heard most figths were cleave so I am kinda afraid :X
strange python
assa really pumps, i dont know how im constantly getting more dps as assa than outlaw
in m+
spice spire
Heard most figths were cleave so I am kinda afraid :X
Our cleave is nutty wdym
final star
most fights are 2 targets or st
I'd say 3-4 of the fights might be outlaw fights
but you can be more than competitive as assassination
depends on mythic tuning/priority mobs
bleak sun
hey mates quick question do you run lashing/Poisoned katar this week or lashing+well placed steel ? in m+
spice spire
WPS is almost never the play, lethal poisons is another option.
But for the keys you run, do you do bigger pulls or kinda staggered pulls?
gusty mirage
what soulbind?
spice spire
Almost never the play for MP+*
I’m assuming it’s double potency nadjia since it’s lashing
gusty mirage
yeah I'd probably play lethal
poisoned katar's crit % not scaling with ilvl is actually an insult
bleak sun
double potency theotar
gusty mirage
oh
spice spire
Depends on the pulls they do as well
bleak sun
not activating it btw
gusty mirage
oh then yeah I'd play lashing + lethal
grand ridge
I wish it was easier to change soulbind conduits
spice spire
Side note: SBS is a real gamer button
grand ridge
I run double potency nadjia even though for purely st fights the single potency seems to be the go to
Too lazy to switch
gusty mirage
you can switch paths in the soulbind tree w/ tomes
spice spire
Nope lmao
gusty mirage
nah you can switch paths too
gusty mirage
you probably didn't know that because blizzard gave us fuck all for info about it
grand ridge
This is my fav class discord
gloomy fern
imagine not abusing tomes
gusty mirage
yeah you can switch paths in any rested area too
tulip nacelle
only thing you can't do is change conduits
compact pumice
The dream is fulfilled the day they allow you to change conduits and also remove conduit energy with a tome
frosty bridge
Imagine being punished for playing the game
While I agree some stuff should be time gated, conduit energy shouldn't exist
gusty mirage
Want to hear the best part about conduit energy?
let's say you have like 6 conduit energy
and you switch covenants
you assume that it'll reset, because new covenant right?
yeah that shit follows you
frosty bridge
Thought it resets? Or is that for 9.1
sacred isle