assassination

[nimble tartan]

thats high apm baby

[indigo mulch]

Phantom fire cheese? D:

[nimble tartan]

so u do pot at 1 and then click activate on nadija?

[polar cape]

Inc that 1 boumy that pull at 5 cuz “fatfinger”

[nimble tartan]

100% i already know ima be stuck on this guy one pull somehow to someone pullin early lmao

[limber lion]

No, you pot at like 3s and then activate Nadja.

[limber lion]

Swap to Theotar with Refined Palate, use pre-potion, swap back to Nadja.

[limber lion]

Not really. It's 2 clicks, I'm sure you'll be fine.

[pale fossil]

How do I optimize IQD? My second highest stat is crit, so I think I want to use it outside of Lust to hopefully get Crit stats from it, but do I just generally want to line it up with Vendetta?

[nimble tartan]

ok ty!

[limber lion]

Yes, line it up with Vendetta. Crit should be your highest stat.

[stoic needle]

change your enchants and gems to crit

[nimble tartan]

omfg i just tried it out and got a 1:13 phantom fire

POGUUU

[limber lion]

Grats.

[indigo mulch]

How much does it actually give you @limber lion ?

[nimble tartan]

https://tenor.com/view/dragon-ball-goku-charging-up-super-saiyan-gif-13283325

[limber lion]

Quite a bit. Around 200-300 on 5min ST.

Or 0.

Or 500.

If you're using Phantom Fire it can pop off hard.

[indigo mulch]

Can't do it on sire though :/

[limber lion]

But you can use Spectral Agi for more consistency there as well if you want.

[pale fossil]

Gotcha. I can get to crit being highest with a couple gem swaps.

[limber lion]

You're not allowed to use potions in P1? lol

[indigo mulch]

Officers will go ham if i pre-pot cause we're already pushing it way before we should :c

[limber lion]

Definitely do that. Outside of lust IQD chooses either of your 2 highest stats.

[pale fossil]

Right now my substats are Haste > Crit > Vers > Mastery

But legit all my enchants and gems are haste haha

[limber lion]

Yeah that's pretty normal, but when playing with IQD as a Venthyr, you definitely want crit as your highest stat.

Yeah, a lot of haste jewelry from M+/raids.

And not much crit.

[pale fossil]

I'm Necro if that impacts it.

[indigo mulch]

I think i'm sitting at like... 17% haste?

or 16%

and like 33% crit

[limber lion]

Yeah then you should have haste as your highest stat.

IQD is not the best trinket for Necros.

It is still decent, but IQD definitely goes hand in hand with Venthyr.

[indigo mulch]

Maybe i should get an IQD

using skulkers and a 216 phial :X

PLS NO LAUGH!

[limber lion]

As a Venthyr you definitely should.

[indigo mulch]

I got like 3k unused valor lol

[limber lion]

Why don't you up your Phial then?

[indigo mulch]

Its my first m+ item i ever got

way before valor

[limber lion]

Rip.

[pale fossil]

Oh, I didn't realize that made IQD worse. I guess I should just run some sims and see what it likes haha

[limber lion]

Yeah definitely.

[indigo mulch]

I didnt actually know idq was better than phial

[limber lion]

Only for Venthyr. Phial is still the bis trinket for others.

[stoic needle]

it's not better than phial, it's better than dreadfire

[limber lion]

Phial is still dumb.

[pale fossil]

I'm running 226 IQD and 220 Phial, but my only alternatives are 213 Memory/Chain or 226 Shadowgrasp, and I feel like Sire probably moves too much for Shadowgrasp to be useful there.

[limber lion]

Yeah, IQD and Phial is probably your best bet there.

[indigo mulch]

I'm venthyr though

[spice spire]

Bis setup (6 ilvl phial upgrade only)

[pale fossil]

In which case, replacing a couple gems to make Lust gives me Crit is probably still worth it.

But I'll run a quick sim and see.

[limber lion]

That only applies for Venthyr. For Necro you want haste as your highest stat, even with IQD.

But yeah, you should definitely sim yourself.

[pale fossil]

Is that just before more haste = more as/globals = more gemstone?

[limber lion]

Gemstone has a cooldown, so it doesn't really matter.

Venthyr just gets a lot of haste from its kit passively (with Flagellation and Thrill Seeker) and they value crit more because the more you crit during flag, the more haste you get, amongst other reasons. Simply put.

[stoic needle]

Shadowgrasp has a 50yd range

Just don't use it before he goes through a portal and it should be fine

[pale fossil]

Or shortly before a named add dies, or before a P1 ravage, or before a P3 hand

[indigo mulch]

Nadija gives crit aswell after 9.1 right?

or was it vers? D:

[pale fossil]

I'm too bad for these rules oshosi

[limber lion]

Yes.

But it's tied to Thrill Seeker, which is a stupid passive ability that procs whenever it wants to

[indigo mulch]

Hmm

Haste jsut gives me more dps atm though 😒

acording to statweights atleast.

[limber lion]

Yeah keep looking at stat weights

It's such a good resource

That's why it has a huge yellow banner warning you that it's so great

[indigo mulch]

lol

Honestly, after using raidbot so much.

I never really paied attention to it.

[limber lion]

I haven't touched Stat Weights in 2 years

[dull cloak]

did something change about iqd, i thought it gave your top 2 secondaries randomly. this was 1st, 2nd month launch tho

[limber lion]

And neither should you

[limber lion]

Yes this is correct, but during lust it gives you your highest stat at an increased duration.

[pale fossil]

What's the logic for when you use Crimson Tempest in ST? The sim doesn't use it until like 20 seconds into the fight.

[limber lion]

Outside of Shiv windows.

[pale fossil]

I assume for Sire you just drop one as the adds spawn, with a FoK before or after depending on CP.

[limber lion]

You build to 5-6 CP and then use CT first and FoK after when the adds spawn

[pale fossil]

So if I get 5-6 CP the second or two before adds spawn, I should hold it and start with CT rather than going for the Envenom and starting with FoK

[limber lion]

Yes.

[indigo mulch]

😒

Maybe i should run ct build there too :c

[limber lion]

Do whatever makes you happy.

Don't let your dreams be dreams.

[indigo mulch]

I want to kill the boss :p

But ep/vigor/ct is pretty poopoo for p3. :S

[limber lion]

Very poopoo in fact.

[stoic needle]

Bs/DS/ct

[indigo mulch]

specially when your entire raid is focused around cleaving. I don't think its right to skip out just because i wanna have a cool log :X

[limber lion]

Kill the boss first

Worry about the logs later.

:p

[indigo mulch]

y

I'm running zoldycks with bs/ds and pb

Since everyone else is cleaving anyway

[limber lion]

Good man.

Will pump p3 then

[indigo mulch]

Just feelsbad when our other rogue is like 1k ahead of me everytime we reach p3.

[grand ridge]

Just change your details to show boss damage

[hollow dirge]

You have 2 rogues in main grp, that’s a rarity 😂

[stoic needle]

CT is arguably better for p3

Sire won't stand in your pb very consistently

[pale fossil]

I was gonna say, I have to cleave because my officers choose the squad based on total damage haha

[indigo mulch]

lol

[limber lion]

Guilds do things differently.

Killing the boss is all that matters

[indigo mulch]

Do zoldycks affect ct though?

[stoic needle]

Yes

The initial damage and the dot

[strange python]

Hi, new to sin, a quick Q: if there are 3+ targets and you are running MA, do you FoK instead of Mutilate from stealth?

[balmy condor]

yes

[strange python]

Thanks

[odd flax]

What stats does the Council dagger have?

[balmy condor]

only to apply poisons though

so if you're vanishing you wouldn't

but from raw stealth, you would to get the poisons up

[strange python]

is that universal or just at 3 targets (so acc. guide, if at 4 targets, you FoK no matter what even with MA up)

[balmy condor]

3 targets for poison, 4 to generate

[strange python]

awesome, thank you

[balmy condor]

pleasure

[misty holly]

Did something change with the sim build recently? Haste just showed as by far my best stat in dungeon slice. It always used to be worst or tied with worst.

[stoic needle]

Link sim

[misty holly]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7M1V5UjANfHaG5uSUGToWp

[indigo mulch]

@limber lion So if i don't want to look at statweights, where should my haste land at as venthyr? D:

[stoic needle]

That definitely seems off

[stoic needle]

Whatever top gear tells you is best

[limber lion]

Who gives a shit?

Close your eyes

[balmy condor]

nothing changed recently that would affect you

[limber lion]

Don't look at it

I have no clue what my stats are like

[balmy condor]

same

[limber lion]

[balmy condor]

I couldn't tell you how much haste I have

maybe 10%?

maybe 20%?

maybe 15%?

I know I was at 16 at some point but that was a while ago

[limber lion]

Me neither. Probably somewhere around 10-20%

I've just been saying 17% because that's what it was at like 2 months ago

No clue if it's changed or not.

[misty holly]

They should add resource cost reduction and cooldown reduction stats to the game like diablo has.

feels like only 4 secondary stats isn't enough.

[indigo mulch]

10 energy cost mutilates pls

ty.

[pale fossil]

I have 16% Haste and 23% Crit

[lyric cave]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/8xyPLdGR9WV7R93fyiN1Xj

[limber lion]

Cool

I guess

[misty holly]

mists challenge mode looks pretty cool on a mecha

[stoic needle]

Bring back multistrike

[balmy condor]

I agree, stats are incredibly boring

[limber lion]

Which also causes gear to be incredibly boring as well.

Equipment are literally just items with secondaries and primaries, no unique effects or anything whatsoever.

[balmy condor]

especially when mastery/vers/crit do basically the same thing in different flavors

and haste isn't far behind it

[misty holly]

dear lord. okay either I got a bad sim, or a very small change in stats makes a BIG difference in stat weights. No wonder you guys are saying its useless.

I switched out my cloak and resimmed

got completely different results

[limber lion]

Are you using IQD?

[balmy condor]

yeh

that happens

[misty holly]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cTCijtKoVjNiXDLvUPbiw2

[balmy condor]

nah no iqd

[limber lion]

Ye, happens

[misty holly]

those weights are what I expected.

[balmy condor]

haste/crit cloak to a vers/mast

makes sense

[lyric cave]

[misty holly]

Not haste top stat like first sim showed

[shy dust]

Only 7.2k

Peasant tings

[nimble tartan]

i never simmed with windfury bro

who is privileged enough to have blue man in group

[limber lion]

[compact pumice]

Tbh having windfury is kinda more cheating than getting PI

[pale fossil]

How much should I be playing around Gemstone? Like stopping all dps on Sludge for a second before charge to make sure Gemstone doesn't pop early seems extreme, but maybe it's that good?

[shy dust]

no its not

Windfury is much worse

than PI

[indigo mulch]

Should i use IDQ on CD? 0: or should i hold it 1min for vendetta?

as venthyr that is.

[heady steppe]

Hi quick question top ranking sin rogues on Mythic CN has more crit than haste but I thought we should prio haste stat first?

[shy dust]

sync if you wont lose a cast

ie on a 5 min fight

on pull and with 3rd vendetta

[heady steppe]

On SLG I think it's best you sync

[compact pumice]

Get the stats that Sim tells you to get

[limber lion]

Not really worth playing around it at all. Just let it happen

[slow marsh]

haste is technically valued higher for lots but people dont take into account all the free haste % we get

[limber lion]

It depends on your covenant and what trinkets you use. But secondaries don't matter, stop looking at them

[slow marsh]

Yeah just sim

Also gemstone is on 1min timer so shouldn't it be up for every pillar?

[heady steppe]

I have venthyr and sometime with lust and covenant ability give me huge amout of haste sometime the energy goes cap :/

[limber lion]

It doesn't quite line up.

[slow marsh]

Is that just based on how fast you're procing it?

[limber lion]

You just explained why Venthyr prefers crit often, yet you question it. Lol.

[limber lion]

No, the pillars are just not exactly 1 min.

[pale fossil]

That and it lasts 10 seconds, so the effective CD is 1:10 unless I'm thinking of it incorrectly

[slow marsh]

oih gotcha

[limber lion]

First pillar is 0:55, second is 2:05, third 3:15

[stoic needle]

The cd starts as the effect activates, not as it ends

[pale fossil]

O

TIL

[balmy condor]

the pillars are 12 seconds

the first is like 0:55 and then 1:10 after for each one

that's just how the fight plays out

not anything weird cooldown wise

[limber lion]

Yep.

[devout hazel]

guys

1 question

best stats for assa

raid

single target

[novel lodge]

Hello new rogue here! just wanted to ask how terrible would it be if i really enjoyed the kyrian covenant but i also wanted to pump dps? Thanks!

[stoic needle]

https://tenor.com/view/sim-simyoself-gif-20048910

[stoic needle]

It's literally the worst covenant for sin rogue

So you won't be pumping with it by any means

[novel lodge]

But those combo points...

[stoic needle]

Sorry friend idk what to tell you, kyrian sucks for rogue

[novel lodge]

i appreciate the hard facts, thats kinda what i needed to hear

[stoic needle]

To be completely honest in the grand scheme of things you can do good dps as kyrian if you are a very good player, but it's an uphill battle and you'll always be behind

Unless the new soulbinds traits for kyrian are somehow incredibly bonkers(and they don't seem to be)

[novel lodge]

well i was lookin at the new cov legos and one of them said that the kyrian ability would trigger at 4 instead of 3

ill be honest, no idea what that translates to in numeric terms but sounded cool

also who doesnt think an arcane melee dps is a cool fantasy toon

[stoic needle]

What that actually means is that it animacharges multiple combo points so you can get multiple 7cp finishers in a row

But it doesn't seem to be very good

[novel lodge]

damn

[odd hazel]

The other leggos are just to good tbh

Necro is gonna be nuts

It’ll most likely replace zold if it stays the way it is

[indigo mulch]

😦

I don't wanna swap to necro 😭

[novel lodge]

ill check out necro but i hate their xmogs

[pale fossil]

I promise it's more fun than you think it's going to be.

SBS is a really fun button.

[indigo mulch]

Sure is but raiding is my main focus D;

[odd hazel]

The leggo makes it a bit more interesting

I mean

The raid has like 2 ST fights apparently

[indigo mulch]

I odn't know how SoD looks so i don't know if its worth staying venthyr or not

[odd hazel]

So it’ll be a good raid for necro most likely

Necro wins the moment multiple targets are introduced

And that leggo is nuts, 2 extra charges/also puts the dot on 2 nearby enemies

The NF one looks dope for sub

[stoic needle]

Nah it's terrible

[odd hazel]

Really ?

Sad pepe

Sounded good atleast

[stoic needle]

Turns out 8 more seconds of an already bad cooldown doesn't do much

[thorny pond]

Sepsis needs some lovin

[pale fossil]

Is Crimson Tempest on ST just "keep the DoT up" like everything else?

[balmy condor]

NF lego is the worst legendary we have

[thorny pond]

Except during shiv

[odd hazel]

Sad honestly, a interactive leggo is always bad it seems

[pale fossil]

Ah, so if Shiv comes up as CT is expiring, just let it expire and refresh it after Shiv

[odd hazel]

Yeah, you always want to pool for shiv so you can dump as many evenoms as possible

[red bloom]

Think im just going to play with Echo of Eonar

[thorny pond]

Good for you 😊

[balmy condor]

is it interactive?

[odd hazel]

Interesting is the word for it I guess

[balmy condor]

it's just an extension of your cooldown

which is very boring

vend is just more damage

AR is basically just more damage

blades is the only thing that really has a change

and blades is pretty trash

[limber lion]

They're all trash

[uneven plume]

Just sitting here waiting for a class rogue buff

[limber lion]

[limber lion]

[slow marsh]

dont play outlaw

there's your buff

[balmy condor]

rogue in general is fine outside of raid util

[slow marsh]

indeed

just said that cuz outlaw role

also other classes do melee cleave better

but not many classes do sin ST as well

But even then its fine and seems like it'll be better in next raid anyways

cuz adds

[odd hazel]

i'll prob dabble in the other two. i wanna try out that necro leggo ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[safe barn]

Is this related to the NF leggo?

[hollow river]

sheet music worth using?

[balmy condor]

no

[limber lion]

No

[hollow river]

trinket*

wow

quick draw guys

my vault is arse =\

[limber lion]

[hollow river]

about to pay to server transfer to join mythic raiding wooo

[unkempt ginkgo]

finally got a 226 dagger

[hollow river]

only option i don't have is Gloves of Haunting Fixation (haste-vers) [203 ilvl]

[limber lion]

Have fun!

[limber lion]

Grats!

[hollow river]

guess i take soul ash this week

oh wait it's stygia?

[unkempt ginkgo]

thanks!

yea its stygia

and only 750

[hollow river]

pfft

idk why i thought it was soul ash that'd make too much sense

guess i take a 2nd pair of SLG heroic shoulders to DE for the lulz

[balmy condor]

you mean EP?

[limber lion]

Rarely but yes

[balmy condor]

EP DS is not worth it in raids

you can make an argument for it on sun king maybe

[limber lion]

It's fine on SLG

[balmy condor]

but it's not really a talent choice you should use

[limber lion]

Got my r1 with it :3

Yes.

You know not everyone does the slow strat

6 months after the release of a tier

[royal lantern]

rupture skirms is a big no

you just rup+garrote boss+goliath, use CT like you use ct and then ST the guy you currently need too focus on

[cerulean nest]

@warped temple just read through the guide and totally learned a lot, thanks for writing it up!

your ST opener for necrolords is super different than what I've seen elsewhere though

[coral imp]

am i dumb

does mind numbing poison slow raid boss attack speed

im getting flamed

lol

[balmy condor]

yes

it does

[coral imp]

yikes i missed that rip

[balmy condor]

it stacks with the warlock curse as well

[wise fiber]

Can someone share with me the IQD macro for selfcast. plkease

[warped temple]

how so? m+ talents maybe? are you talking about the mut-snd-mut opener, cause you dont do that in m+

[compact pumice]

I had to make it like this to not get execute:
/target player /use [@player] Inscrutable Quantum Device /targetlasttarget

[wise fiber]

Thank you so much Anno.

[compact pumice]

np!

[pure moth]

Why do you have to have a target macro for iqd?

[compact pumice]

To not get the execute effect

[hollow river]

May i ask a quick off-topic questoin

Oo there's a server specific to off-topic rofl

[tulip nacelle]

depends on how offtopic but #wow-general is probably a better option

[hollow river]

I got it answered thanks :d

[strange python]

do we have any recent sims whispyr? or are you guys in the same situation as you were on 4/21/21

[balmy condor]

there are sims but like 75% of soulbinds aren't implemented and obedience is still bugged

the pin is still accurate

[strange python]

kk, thank you

[balmy condor]

except I guess I overhype the necro lego

might want to tone down the excitement on that

[stoic needle]

[hollow river]

Why

[uneven plume]

im confused

are nf rogues getting a wild spirits?

spell

or did we already have one

[loud light]

what does that even mean

[stoic needle]

Yes it's called wild poisons

[uneven plume]

lmfaooo

no idea. i dont even know what wild spirits does tbh. just saw nf changes and wild spirits in some of them lmaoooo

[loud light]

you don't get bonus spells from covenants

you got sepsis, sorry

[balmy condor]

[loud light]

I've said it before and I'll say again

should need a license to read the wowhead data mining posts

[balmy condor]

yeh honestly

[low girder]

you didn't like being pinged 30 times by the time you wake up, all asking if you've seen the dmg amp buff on tricks?

[balmy condor]

bro does it mean we don't tricks tanks anymore?

won't that kill the mage?

[low girder]

[strange python]

Boiz

Boiz

Any hints and tips for sire?

[balmy condor]

don't cloak massacre

[strange python]

Why

[balmy condor]

cause you can't

[strange python]

Ok ty lol

Insane

[low girder]

cloak the first blood price

that's usually the one that trucks

and feint doesn't work

[gusty mirage]

@balmy condor I don't want to raid after 11 hours of work 😦

[balmy condor]

I'm suprised we're getting 20 together tbh

[gusty mirage]

tbh same

[misty holly]

did ptr patch notes troll us?

or has wowhead just not gotten to rogue? Every other class listed has a news post for it.

[novel lodge]

What do you guys think about Venth rogues assuming someone wanted to multi spec for all PvE content?

[misty holly]

Venth is good assuming you are too cowardly to join the necrolord army.

Not everyone can be a hero.

[stoic needle]

Bis for sub and sin for st, 2nd bis for sub and sin in m+, mediocre for outlaw all around

[balmy condor]

if you're multi-speccing with outlaw

then venth is hard trolling

[last cedar]

but aesthetics

i want to be a vampire pirate

[novel lodge]

looks like necrolord is the way to go

u guys have successfully convinced me out of multiple terrible decisions LOL

[nimble tartan]

venthry too good to swap to necro i cannot

[stoic needle]

Meh

[nimble tartan]

i play outlaw in 14 keys and up to 20 for sales

but its w.e

i like st dammie more baby

[void pecan]

I'm not about to switch to necro after I just swapped to blood people.

from NF

[scarlet spade]

Am I tripping or did todays build not have any rogue changes?

[balmy condor]

no changes

[loud niche]

so they think rogue is good?

[thorny pond]

Expect a utility buff I guess

[spice spire]

damage is utility

[spice spire]

!oil

[prisma monolith]

Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ

[west geode]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[west geode]

whats a good DOT tracking for AOEing

WA or addon

[thorny pond]

Plater

[spice spire]

I prefer plater on mine too, yeah

you can use WA fine for ST

but for m+ it's all but useless on packs

[scarlet spade]

so yall swear by blindside and deeper strat?

[stoic needle]

I mean, it is good

[stoic needle]

It's the best for single target

[loud niche]

It's subpar at everything it does?

[balmy condor]

rogue is quite good boss damage

outlaw has been in every meta comp for m+ since it's release

[limpid blaze]

[loud niche]

It's good but I just mean that we aren't the best at anything. And honestly I'm still not sure why exactly people aren't running 2x fire mage and a boomie for m+. Additionally, Rogues weren't preferred, even as otl, in 9.0 for m+. Hunter, Boomie, Fire Mage was better iirc

My point isn't that rogue sucks, but just that we should be better, seeing as we are dps locked

[balmy condor]

[limpid blaze]

just look at m+ leaderboards and count how many pages until you don't see a rogue

[balmy condor]

pride skipping means you need a rogue

[loud niche]

hunters, rogues, mages, locks, all classes imo that should be top dmg in most scenario's

[limpid blaze]

damage, sure

[loud niche]

Pride skipping more than once, sure

[balmy condor]

what

[loud niche]

How many times do yall skip packs in a m_

[dusty frost]

How u skip Pride since it has invis detection ? 😅

[loud niche]

m+*

[balmy condor]

it's not about skipping more than pride, it's about shrouding a pack while the invis pot is on cooldown

[limpid blaze]

you invis prides and shroud other packs that you would otherwise invis

[balmy condor]

spawn it really far away, then invis pot and run fast

[stoic needle]

we do amazing boss damage and have very good survivability

rogues are required for all high keys because of the routes that shroud enables

while also bringing competitive damage

[limpid blaze]

not to mention: soothe, gouge, stun, increased range, shroud

smooth damage curve

might be a con tho in m+

constant aoe slow if you switch to crippling poision for packs too

[balmy condor]

I'm thinking of a dungeon where we don't use shroud, and I'm coming up with nothing

[loud niche]

What level keys are you doing?

[dusty frost]

TOP

[balmy condor]

18's

[limpid blaze]

spires maybe, its doable without

[balmy condor]

there's shrouds in top

[loud niche]

you can run a 15 without a rogue, literally all day. And you get nothing from going higher

[balmy condor]

who gives a shit about 15s

[spice spire]

you can run a 15 full tank

[loud niche]

So we're great for content that doesn't give any increase from easier content. That's good

[balmy condor]

can run 15's without a healer

[limpid blaze]

you can run 15s with 5 of any class and you'll be fine

theres no point even bringing up class choice for 15s

[stoic needle]

who cares about 15s

the top keys

[loud niche]

I mean, only proving my point

[stoic needle]

require shroud for everything

[final lantern]

Hi, i was wondering if anyone can tell me, what legendary should i focus on for 9.1?

[balmy condor]

your point is that when the content doesn't matter, rogue is weak?

[loud niche]

15's are the end of scaling for loot. Who cares about going higher?

[balmy condor]

anyone who likes playing the game to push

[stoic needle]

[balmy condor]

what kind of fucking question is that

lmao

[limpid blaze]

i think his point is: there are classes that do more damage than rogues in 15s

[loud niche]

It's not content that matters, beyond an ego.

[limpid blaze]

[loud niche]

Like, you get actually nothing from it

[stoic needle]

ok buddy

[silent tinsel]

[stoic needle]

just because you don't do keys past 15 doesn't mean that rogue isn't good in m+

[stoic needle]

[stoic needle]

+15s are the equivalent of heroic content

if blizzard balanced the game around +15s/heroic it would be dogshit

[dusty frost]

Nice outlaw stats bro 😂

[limpid blaze]

1600 rating
+15 weekly done
Ahead of the Curve: Sire Denathrius

My class is weak

[loud niche]

I'm not saying that we aren't good for m+ higher than 15. I'm saying that it practically doesn't matter, because you get nothing from going higher.
In raid, why not bring a spriest instead?
In 15's why not just bring another mage since they do such insane aoe dps

[limpid blaze]

[mint anvil]

mist?

[balmy condor]

you shroud end packs sometimes in mists

[mint anvil]

true

[stoic needle]

have you actually done a m+ with 3 mages/boomkins

it's awful when everyone's CDs are down

you need consistent damage

[orchid valley]

not sure about 15s but in raid assa rogue puts every other melee in the ground on sludge prog 😄

tho we dont have a ret pal

[loud niche]

okay, so bring a monk? bring a dh? how much dps do you lose from otl to dh/monk? fury warr? Like, the only time you'd want a rogue is in a key that's over 15, that seems like a bad design of the class. We don't bring utility that is considered "good" outside of shroud, which granted is a great utility... for only m+. Cuz wtf else do you use it for..? I'm just saying that rogues deserve to do at least near the ST dps of a spriest, and/or we deserve to be in competition with fire mages in aoe. As a 100% dps class we should be given much more dmg, or more util.

priest has disc/holy one of which is nearly always great, and then spriest which is always incredibly strong on ST bosses, and have even been brought as every dps slot but 1 for a raid

[torpid spoke]

Is there a log review channel

Or can I post in here

[balmy condor]

[torpid spoke]

What can I do better here

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/b4Vdr362KqxpLhB9#fight=46&type=damage-done

[orchid valley]

we are near the st dps of a priest, and considering their st is getting hit hard in 9.1 and assa is getting away scott free it's looking like we're just gonna be sick st

[slow marsh]

yeah

[torpid spoke]

Am I not cd right time

[balmy condor]

[slow marsh]

seems like another ranter who doesn't actually play the class or doesn't play it very seriously

[loud niche]

You're CE, right?

[torpid spoke]

Do I need to hold cd? Use pot better?

[slow marsh]

working on it

[loud niche]

Git gud then

[slow marsh]

lol

[loud niche]

[slow marsh]

Yep my previous statement confirmed

[balmy condor]

bro river you're on some shit today

[stoic needle]

but we do do near the st of a spriest

on 2 specs

if the ptr doesn't change

[loud niche]

you want me to show you my CE achieve? like "seems like another ranter who doesn't actually play the class or doesn't play it very seriously"

[slow marsh]

I mean that's cool

[loud niche]

just silly

[stoic needle]

nobody cares that you have CE

you still say dumb shit

[loud niche]

i dont care that i have CE. but to say i dont play it is just silly

[slow marsh]

I can pay for CE who cares

[torpid spoke]

Wait so is there a log analyzer channel?

[loud niche]

You can. My guild sells CE for gold if you want in?

[torpid spoke]

I need help getting good

[slow marsh]

Ok well if you play rogue then why are you making statements that completely contradict the current state of the class

is what i'm wondering

[orchid valley]

you talk like someone else played it for you

[balmy condor]

I mean someone who sees you for the first time, with these takes, surely you understand that it can seem like you don't play the class

[slow marsh]

Like I could understand if you haven't played since 9.0

[fallow solar]

I dont even think shroud can be counted as utility when anyone can just invis pot

[slow marsh]

And these are only based on 9.0 state of rogue

[balmy condor]

you have 0 grasp on what you're arguing, arguing something no one agrees with

[slow marsh]

sure

[balmy condor]

and that's rough man

[loud niche]

Because it doesn't. If PTR stays as is and we're near Spriest in dps (i haven't been looking at their buffs/nerfs tbf) then it's fine, and i digress.

[slow marsh]

We already are

currently

[silent tinsel]

But wheres smoke bokb

[slow marsh]

in live

[silent tinsel]

I want my smoke bong

[stoic needle]

[slow marsh]

Like if rogue stays as it is and we get smoke bomb we will be entering OPOP territory

[stoic needle]

i don't get why doing the 2nd best st dps in the game isn't enough for you

[silent tinsel]

If you waint first

[drifting cloud]

because he has dumb takes all the time why are you surprised now

[loud niche]

Yeah, go tell me what place the top rogue is in on shriek/sludge/hungering/Arti vs all other classes. I'll tell you who's on top of 3/4 of those... It's Spriests

[slow marsh]

I mean

[stoic needle]

do you know what the word '2nd' means?

[slow marsh]

if you're talking about parses then that's cool

[loud niche]

2nd place?

Oh that's spriest

[orchid valley]

good thing their st is getting hit by 15% in 9.1 😄

[loud niche]

Again, if that's how it shakes out then I digress, because it would put us in line. and perhaps 15% is too much, seems like a big af aura nerf.

[stoic needle]

who does more ST than spriest

[balmy condor]

@loud niche thoughts on this damage breakdown

[loud niche]

I don't have context..? Is it SLG? is it N hungering? Idk heh...

[balmy condor]

shriek

with 1 intermission

3:40 kill time

[dusty frost]

Is dashing scoundrel going to be the best ST leggo in 9.1 since it benefits more from sec stats than doomblade ?

[loud niche]

N/H/M? I'm assuming M, so that's good. The spriest probably did poorly, or got rng'd out or something who knows.

[orchid valley]

ignoring parses which are pretty useless for prog, assa brings a really good damage profile for actual progression

[balmy condor]

mythic

[orchid valley]

optional exe damage, funnel damage, good 2-3 target cleave

[balmy condor]

the sin rogue is beating a monk, 2 boomies, a fire mage, a spriest, and pulling almost even with a feral

I'm just wondering

[loud niche]

I agree actually, sin def has a great dmg profile for prog

[orchid valley]

assa rogue is not just good because tuning

[balmy condor]

if you think that's normal or something

[orchid valley]

😄 I MADE HIM AGREE WITH A THING

ITS A MIRACLE

[brisk drum]

i beat two spriests on our sire kill in p3 dam 😉

sin ftw

[silent tinsel]

only cuck tanks want numbing

[loud niche]

I've been agreeing here and there heh

[slow marsh]

Pepople are watching it

[silent tinsel]

Eat sire hits like a champ

[loud niche]

Actually, what I would imagine being normal is for that rogue to be a few places lower and doing a fair bit less dps than the Spriest and Feral, but /shrug

[dusty frost]

What people? Btw are there any other updates to our new cov legos? Got venth leggo fixed on ptr?

[loud niche]

boomies... idk, I've seen good ones and I've seen some that get by because the spec is stronk.
I think this was taken as me saying "ROGUES SUCK BRO" but in reality I've just been saying that as it is on live, I think we're below where we should be. And I'm certainly excited to see how it pans out in the end with 9.1

[slow marsh]

TC'ers and others on ptr. There's no updates right now, pins will get updated the second new info comes out. Dashing is very close to DB and so any small tweaks to something could push it over. You can play it currently if you want to and not be trolling

[orchid valley]

i think the main thing that is being disagreed on is how much rogues actually suck in 9.0.5. feels better than most melees rn in prog, tho i will say i have like negative m+ experience on that toon

[balmy condor]

idk who told you this btw but it seems like a pretty questionable argument for dashing

[slow marsh]

lol yeah it has nothing to do with stats. ^^

[stoic needle]

but if we're any higher than we are now we will 10000000% get nerfed

[silent fossil]

i actually parsed well on sire pog

[stoic needle]

we just had our first p2 pull a few minutes ago

[slow marsh]

Nice

[silent fossil]

it's ok we're 15 weeks post kill and still wipe on it sometimes

fight sux

[stoic needle]

i'm having fun

[slow marsh]

My pulls have all been p2 and start of p3

[silent fossil]

as necro assass the fight is fun

i just mean wiping cuz chimps in ur raid

[slow marsh]

Yeah same

[orchid valley]

necro sin has sbs damage on remornia thru part 3

unless changed

[silent fossil]

i dont think it does dmg but you keep the spike status like extra cp

[orchid valley]

aha

[silent fossil]

first toxic blade in p3 slams

[stoic needle]

yea

like 4 envenoms in a shiv

[slow marsh]

Honestly surprised it's not fixed

But not complaining

[silent fossil]

shiv envenom spike envenom spike envnom spike envenom

slams

[orchid valley]

y

a

im honestly so happy that necro is barely behind venthyr in st

[slow marsh]

I think it could overtake it next patch but we'll see

[orchid valley]

venthyr just feels like press on cd = profit

[slow marsh]

soulbind bonuses just seem better but not sure if it's 80-100 dps better or not

[orchid valley]

also does doomblade bleed scale off mastery and haste or is it just pure % of mutilate hit

[balmy condor]

oh and I'm also curious when that's true, cause I'm looking at 600 ilvl right now and dashing is still much worse

[orchid valley]

cuz if it scales then we just scale high

[balmy condor]

it's just the raw mut damage I'm pretty sure let me double check

[orchid valley]

thanks homie

[slow marsh]

Is dashing not better in 2 target

[balmy condor]

3, but it also loses to zold on 3

so

[orchid valley]

zoldyk supremacy

[slow marsh]

Yeah I knew it was in a weird spot

I'm crafting my zold boots this week

[balmy condor]

just the mut damage looks like

[slow marsh]

Yeah mut bleed not hasted unfort right?

Would be nice if it was

[hollow river]

first 3 bosses of mythic 2 ez

[dusty frost]

Ty for your replies, I will craft zoldyk 2 then

The idea was , unlike db, dashing also benefits more from crit, so since it is already simming mot much worse than db maybe it could be better next patches

[balmy condor]

how

that makes no sense

why would it benefit more from crit

[slow marsh]

I mean even if that were true

DB benefits just as much from crit

[orchid valley]

it benefits less from crit actually

[stoic needle]

the db dot crits

[orchid valley]

diminishing returns

[stoic needle]

and mut crits make the dot do mroe damage

[dusty frost]

More Energy gains ?

[stoic needle]

what diminishing returns?

[balmy condor]

what the fuck

[slow marsh]

10% kek

[orchid valley]

ds gives the same crit no matter how much you have

[balmy condor]

is happening in this chat

[slow marsh]

This is all because you're not raiding

[balmy condor]

so

lets do this

[balmy condor]

it does not

[balmy condor]

counteracted by getting more gear/haste/crit anyways, which will naturally speed everything up. The energy is not the important, or meaningful part of dashing. The mut bleed itself will more than make up for it

[balmy condor]

not sure why that means diminishing returns

[slow marsh]

I think he meant DRs on crit?

[balmy condor]

but that doesn't make sense either

the gain from dashing is a %

it's not affected by the DR

[next solar]

@stoic needle iqd gave me rank 9 huntsman lmao

[orchid valley]

sorry was not specific

[balmy condor]

fuck now oshosi making me get all hot and bothered about doomblade dot critting

imagine how sexy that is

[stoic needle]

[gusty mirage]

[balmy condor]

your mut crits on slude pillar, doomblade double dips, the dot then crits ON TOP OF THAT

oh fuck yes

[next solar]

was at 9.2 then had a 45k iqd proc take me to the moon right before huntsman died lmao

[balmy condor]

crit multi shooting through the roof

[stoic needle]

sorry i thought the dot crit

[balmy condor]

I wish it did

4x damage crits sound huge

[slow marsh]

that would be the life

I wish that we benefited from crit in the way that fire mages do

[balmy condor]

if crit chance is a stat why not crit multiplier

[orchid valley]

their crit val falls off over 50% tho!

xd

[balmy condor]

make it happen blizz

[slow marsh]

Imagine getting buffed crit damage % to your mut crits which then translates to DB bleed

[balmy condor]

nut

crit multi doesn't work as a stat sadly though :(

[slow marsh]

yeah

[balmy condor]

combust/recklessness abuse would be huge

and then it's still boring tbh

cause it's basically just vers

[slow marsh]

It is boring

[balmy condor]

[slow marsh]

exactly

[silent tinsel]

Rupture should get ignite treatment

[limpid blaze]

sounds like you should reroll priest mate

[fiery fable]

is subterfuge or ma better to bring for sunking?

[balmy condor]

subt

[gaunt mortar]

is doomblade the best lego for sin ?

[balmy condor]

for single target yes

[gaunt mortar]

if im focusing on mythic plus is zolydck better

[stoic needle]

yes

[gaunt mortar]

and if im doing a mixture of both what would u recommend

[balmy condor]

making both

[orchid valley]

if ur way behind the soul ash curve make zoldyk’s, execute damage valuable on a lot of prog fights

210 sin alt simming 200 dps behind 220 uh dk main 😦

[rapid stratus]

For crimson tempest, it says to not use it during shiv, what about during the vendetta without shiv window?

[balmy condor]

you use it

[rapid stratus]

okay, figured, just wanted to verify, thank you

[orchid valley]

make crimson tempest give energy pls 🥺👉👈

[balmy condor]

no

that would make it the go-to single target talent instantly

[winged basin]

is stone herald trink worth running with enough people?

[balmy condor]

not unless you literally don't have any other trinkets usually

[marsh ridge]

How good is shadowgrasp totem actually? and whats best way to use it? AOE? st with vendetta?

[balmy condor]

you use it on cooldown

because of this, in the FaQ

it is good, because it's hasted

[marsh ridge]

Im not even seeing an FAQ channel, sorry.

[balmy condor]

in the pins

[hollow river]

got 3/10M my first night O:

[shy dust]

Gz

[hollow river]

ty.

inerva and then Arty is prog tmrw night

[craggy basin]

emeni or bonesmith for council?

[balmy condor]

always heirmir

there is no situation where you'd want to run emeni

[craggy basin]

wasnt sure if haste buff from gnashing was worth it with adds

[balmy condor]

yeh

it's pretty trash

[gusty mirage]

whats the haste cap for my internal sadness to go away? @balmy condor

[stoic needle]

ehh, emeni can pull ahead of heirmir with enough resets

it's arguably better on slg

[west jay]

Just specced into assassin, what's the best cov?

[balmy condor]

there's comparisons all through the pins

but usually we play necro

[west jay]

hm interesting

[stoic needle]

is it more boss dps to bone spike the wracking pain adds during gemstones and funnel finishers into sire, or to hit sire with the sbs even though it doesn't give as much cp?

[balmy condor]

sire with sbs

[loud niche]

I've thought about making an alt

wait, necro?

Since when? I'm still venth

[balmy condor]

since 9.0.5

[loud niche]

What the

[balmy condor]

the single target gain from venth ain't worth it

even less so after gemstone optimizations

necro is like 1% behind venth in single target now

[loud niche]

gemstone optimizations?

[balmy condor]

yeh before we were casting sbs to avoid overcap

then we moved it into gemstone

and it was stonks

[slow marsh]

makes sense tbh

[gusty mirage]

deathspike's actually insane on ptr right now, I hope it goes live like this (minus the flurrying)

[stoic needle]

no flurry deathspike

[slow marsh]

do the cleave hits apply the bleed as well?

[stoic needle]

yes

[gusty mirage]

yep

[slow marsh]

plz no flurry

[gusty mirage]

so in big pulls, you'll end up with so many charges

[stoic needle]

sbs > fok

[gusty mirage]

as things die

[loud niche]

how does pressing sbs feel vs pressing flag?

cuz you hit sbs a lot more often

[shy dust]

I like flag

It’s burst

Sbs on st is boring to me

[lean coral]

yeah but theres what like 2 fights next patch that are pure st?

[gloomy knoll]

anybody know if the middle of council room ever gets dancers

or is it guaranteed safe every time

on m council

[lean coral]

theres 2 different outcomes

[balmy condor]

the dancers spawn around the bosses

if you hold bosses in middle

[lean coral]

its random from what ive seen

[balmy condor]

dancers in the middle

[lean coral]

either we got to sit still or we had to run to middle of room

[gloomy knoll]

rogr

ty

[lean coral]

idk if it changed tho havent done council in like a month or so

gonna get to do it again now that dennis is dead

[balmy condor]

my raid was hard forcing them to spawn on the edge where the bosses are

we ran into the middle every time

[lean coral]

we fought them in the front

we didnt always have to run middle

so idk how you force it

[balmy condor]

idk man

[lean coral]

and if you could why force it where you have to run

[balmy condor]

but we ran into the middle

every time

shit was weird

[orchid valley]

what is this gemstone optimization thingy that makes necro good?

[shy dust]

Dump sbs during gemstone buff

Make damage go up

[elfin valley]

Does feint (without elusiveness) or evasion work for impale on denathrius?

[shy dust]

No

[orchid valley]

aha ic

so its fine to cap at 3

[dawn ivy]

no

i think you always have 2 sbs charges every minute, you shouldnt over cap i think

[balmy condor]

overcapping is about the worst thing you can ever do

[bitter canyon]

quick question, does quaking pop people out of shroud?

[dawn ivy]

if you get hit by someones elses circle, yes

[bitter canyon]

but not by yourself right

[dawn ivy]

but if no one gets hit and take actual damage, you wont have anyone lose shroud

[bitter canyon]

got it, thanks!

[reef axle]

Couldn’t figure out how to sim a 200 conduit to 213 lol, is there much difference between the two for a sbs conduit?

[balmy condor]

No

Without an advanced sim you can’t compare in one sim

But should be around 10dps

[reef axle]

Good to know cause sire doesn’t want to drop it ugh

[balmy condor]

You could technically sim at 200

Then do a new sim unlocking all conduits and forcing it to 213

[plain onyx]

Do i pick Poison bomb for Tyrannical weaks or I should stay with CT ?

[gloomy knoll]

in keys always ct

[worthy moat]

is there a specific way to sim for m+? i noticed raidbots has the dungeon slice in beta but not sure if it is accurate when compared to some other potential configurations

[gloomy knoll]

dslice works well for rouges

we have very dedicated and good apl bois

[worthy moat]

noiccceee thanks!

[balmy condor]

Apl bois

[gloomy knoll]

best use of that meme

i have ever seen

hands down

[plain onyx]

lol

[vestal wren]

wait, i am the troll

[balmy condor]

It’s a goblin

[plain onyx]

I crafted Zold with crit/haste missives. Doomblade should have the same stats as well ?

[balmy condor]

Yeah sounds good

[plain onyx]

cant sim, picking Doomblade leggo on both shoulders and hands thats all. is there something else i should be picking?

[final star]

you need to select gear replacements too

an extra hands/shoulders

[plain onyx]

but i dont have extra should/hands in my bags

[final star]

unlucky

you can't sim a combination

for a combination you don't have

[limber lion]

Surely you do. I doubt you're naked,

[plain onyx]

😈 oh lala

[balmy condor]

You can add items if you’re savvy enough to gear compare and add it to your bag items

[lost horizon]

make one for 'me and the boys pushing assassination keys'

but it's only ryfie

[balmy condor]

[warm rapids]

Is it worth to get in a 2cp envenom during ven, shi, and ma in st?

Omg spell check

[limber lion]

Environment. Interesting.

But no.

[balmy condor]

You never want to finish at less than max-1

[craggy oak]

Is it worth to fish for shiv crits at 2 cp?

[warm rapids]

Okay, one of my Sims had it on the action priority list

[limber lion]

Link

[limber lion]

... meaning?

[warm rapids]

I can't link it, I'm on my phone :(

[craggy oak]

Youre at 2 cp, rather than mutilate shiv envenom, just shiv abd hope for crit into envenom, if it doesnt crit, another mutilate then envenom

[limber lion]

Yes.

Sure.

As long as you press Shiv on cooldown.

[craggy oak]

Cool ty

[rotund oak]

how much haste is considered ''descent'' to use deeper strat

going through some assa profiles from warcraftlogs most rogues stay around 20%,up or down,is it safe to assume thats the case?

[verbal mantle]

No magic numbers, raidbots my friend

[covert stratus]

lol wops sorry.

[rotund oak]

guess so ye,im just curious about haste coz im 2-3% off

[whole mason]

If you check with raidbot, haste only gets higher than crit at very low haste

[covert stratus]

haste sims higher for me but top gear wants me to gem crit??

[final star]

We don't have breakpoints

[covert stratus]

I know it doesnt really matter but, like, what?

[rotund oak]

ye,its about the same as outlaw with the breakpoints,there actually none

my crit is about 26% btw haste on 17

just had a 226 haste vers dagger from GV and testing my assa,its actually bollocks how high ST it goes

[whole mason]

After cttc implemented, it is no longer that energy exhaust.

[final star]

What is the disclaimer on the stat weights part of raid bots

Should probably pay attention to it

[rotund oak]

wpn dmg>agil>haste-crit.. yy alot

[balmy condor]

Stuff people read even less than pins

[rotund oak]

gonna do alot of simming

[final star]

Instead of asking why x sims higher

[balmy condor]

Yeh

[whole mason]

You don't change your stat gradually. A good amount of stat changed will change your stat priority.

[balmy condor]

I agree with the turtle

[rotund oak]

whispyr has spoken,pawn is no more

done with this sht,going with top gear

[final star]

I don't even know why they still have a stat weight function on raidbots

it's just misleading

[balmy condor]

Should’ve been no more like 4 years ago bud

[final sky]

im currently level 32 but this is my first time playing rogue and so far ive been enjoying it, what covenant should i go

m+

[rotund oak]

u r prolly right ma dude even for the actual timerange lul

[balmy condor]

Necro

[final sky]

alright thanks 😄

[whole mason]

No, ppl like this kind stuff.

[balmy condor]

Stats weights is an awful way to try and gear

[whole mason]

It is like a topic or excuse blaming blz for not designing exactly what they need.

[balmy condor]

Haste > crit > vers is also outdated and stupid

I wish we get rid of that too

[rotund oak]

Is there any special recommendation for high council mythic btw?We are progresssing and we lack some ST dps,since the dagger came in,thinking of swapping to venthyr to pump huge ST dps

[balmy condor]

You’d do more single target damage with necro

[final star]

get rid of it then

there is absolutely nothing stopping you

[rotund oak]

oh ty,im already necro and using doomblade on gloves as well,gonna stick to it

[whole mason]

Or keep asking what kind of gear I should have for some kind of true answer until ppl fight against eachother when they're trying to answer.

[final star]

you'll still get idiots asking

and you'll still have to direct them to pins

[balmy condor]

It’s a never ending battle

[final star]

never ending war

the battle is won in the pins

[balmy condor]

That’s the move

This is just the lesser of two evils

In this evil, people can have their generalized nonsense

And I can have my sanity

In the other evil, “why no stats? What stats? Stats? Where stats? Crit? Mastery? What gear?”

And whispyr wants to commit a genocide

[whole mason]

Vent is okay. It adds some burst when you know when you can do dmg.

[rotund oak]

Venth is more windowy,sims and tests look like its stronger by a small margin,like 100dps(?) for me

did lvl up my renown on a dead week just to be ready for some fights during progress

but im not like super excited

but im mostly playing outlaw necro so might be my bias towards it

[final star]

I'm 40 renown on all 4

[balmy condor]

Running the comparison for yourself

[final star]

[balmy condor]

Bro I’m fucking hard as a brick

Love to see it

[limber lion]

🧱

[rotund oak]

im generally very skeptical about everything need to test it by myself but ye call me whatever dont rly care

[whole mason]

It depends on what boss the 100dps would be significantly amplified by the mechanics.

[rotund oak]

yy true

[final star]

for me

[balmy condor]

Usually that favors necro

Sbs does more damage on sludge pillars than flag for example

[gloomy knoll]

did not know that

[balmy condor]

(Not counting the stats from flag, that’s obviously very hard to calculate)

[limber lion]

Ye SBS is nutty.

[final star]

as soon as you add one more target

sbs is ahead

[balmy condor]

Cev mentioned it off-handedly one day and I looked through some logs

It’s actually quite consistent

[gloomy knoll]

makes sense

sbs is big dam and big cp

you energy drought like halfway through a pillar

as flag sin

[balmy condor]

Can use on every pillar too

[gloomy knoll]

yea it probably helps you get out finishers easier

as well def makes sense

[whole mason]

But not so many parse for necro tho.

Slugfist top 100 is like 70% of vent.

[balmy condor]

Yeah there’s a lot of parse cheese on venthyr

And a lot of people just aren’t necro

Cause they’re still stuck min-maxing venthyr

[whole mason]

We need to see it clearly with more necro parses

[balmy condor]

?

There are necro parses

[limber lion]

We're Theotar-slaves.

[balmy condor]

You can look it up for yourself

This isn’t private data

Just cause one covenant parses higher 70% of the time doesn’t make it actually better

How many people used blood of the enemy in 8.3 when CLF or worldvein simmed higher

Community perception leads to a lot

Especially when it’s as close as it is between venthyr and necro

[limber lion]

The best Venthyr parse without PI is 9k (229 ilvl) and best Necro at 8.6k (227).

[whole mason]

And?

[final star]

that's with theotar cheese too

[limber lion]

Necro would definitely be up to par if more people played Necro.

[whole mason]

But theotar is part of vent for the moment. It is not their fault to take that into consideration.

[final star]

it's unintended interaction for sure

[whole mason]

Okay.

[whole mason]

This is exactly why I say need more parses .

[limber lion]

I mean, not really.

There's already people doing really well as Necro.

We don't need 1000 people to justify it.

[whole mason]

To understand is one thing, but to change the decision is another. It is not like every rogue is in this room and listening to Whispyr's lesson.

[limber lion]

You suddenly turned to Hamlet.

What does that even mean?

[balmy condor]

[final star]

explain in pepo brain terms

thanks

[balmy condor]

I didn’t realize I was giving a lesson

Usually gotta pay extra for that

[final star]

wowhead guide

why u do dis

oops

[balmy condor]

Cause that’s technically how the expansion started with

[final star]

let's try that again

[balmy condor]

For undergeared and new rogues

[limber lion]

Imagine not playing in 9.0

[balmy condor]

That seems reasonable

[whole mason]

Not too bad actually. It is almost the only build you can use before cttc

[balmy condor]

The same way icyveins suggests night fae