assassination

[limber lion]

That's what I would call amazing

When a 220 trinket beats 226 trinkets out the park.

I wouldn't call a semi-rng trinket that does 10 dps more "amazing"

Phial is completely passive and does more damage and you can never go wrong with it or fail to get full value out of it

That's an amazing trinket

[slow marsh]

I mean it makes perfect sense that it would be bis for venthyr though considering most of your power is coming from your flag/vendetta window vs necro's more consistent dmg

[limber lion]

Exactly.

[slow marsh]

but yes even that being said I will almost always take a passive trink over active if they sim within 1%

having to smash 4 buttons at the same time with sire add lag is pretty cancer on pull

[stoic needle]

considering that there are like ~30 some odd trinkets in the game i'd call anything within the top 3-5 amazing

[slow marsh]

the more i can take away the better

[limber lion]

I call the top 5 trinkets "good" and everything else "bad".

If there's an outlier, like IQD for Venthyr, then I'd call that amazing.

But, terminology is whatever

[slow marsh]

Personally I'd say an 'amazing' trinket is something that is unique that nothing else can even touch

[delicate smelt]

well, when i look at my stats, i have everything in haste (gems, enchants) and still have more crit than haste 23% vs 22% and IQD still sims worse than Hateful about 50dps for me.

[silent fossil]

dreadfire is amazing to me because i like to blast things for like 27k dmg on crits

[stoic needle]

it's not about %, it's about the rating

mouse over the %s and see what the ratings are

[slow marsh]

look at your actual numbers

[limber lion]

22% haste is a lot, 23% crit is not.

[slow marsh]

^^^ you have more haste rating for sure if you're at 23%

[limber lion]

Have you actually looked at your stats without any gear whatsoever?

[delicate smelt]

aah, never knew about this one 🙂 ty

[limber lion]

Because I can tell you that you'll be sitting at 13.6% mastery if you're naked.

[delicate smelt]

424 crit vs 739 haste

[slow marsh]

But if you have 23% haste and 22% crit idk if gemming/enchants are gonna catch up to the haste you have on gear

yeah

[limber lion]

Ding ding ding, that's the problem.

[slow marsh]

figured

[limber lion]

You shouldn't have that much haste as a Venthyr anyways.

You should definitely do a gem/enchant sim

[delicate smelt]

yeah

[slow marsh]

also makes it more clear why totem sims higher

[limber lion]

Might want to swap out that Huntsman neck

[slow marsh]

since its hasted

[limber lion]

(just taking a guess here)

[slow marsh]

prolly the haste/vers?maybe mastery neck from m+

[limber lion]

A lot of people default to the Huntsman neck because it's haste-loaded

[delicate smelt]

exactly

[slow marsh]

huntsmen neck is huge mastery and like 50ish haste vs 150ish haste

[pliant apex]

What I find most hypocritical when raid leaders say parses/dps don’t matter... I mean at the end of the day that’s all that matters.. people singularly call you a good bad player on the color of your parse yet won’t admit it.

[limber lion]

Yeah, but it's also the only haste neck from the raid.

[slow marsh]

true from raid

but I think the 220 sin stained pendant is better overall. could be wrong

[stoic needle]

in a bad guild maybe

in a good guild people judge you on your ability to do mechanics and not die first, your parse second

[pliant apex]

Almost all guilds/players in my 13 years of this game think that

[slow marsh]

people say parses dont matter because people focus too much on parses

they should just be a guideline not the goal

[pliant apex]

That’s a crock o shit I’m sorry

[slow marsh]

its really not tho

[stoic needle]

maybe you haven't been in a good guild before lol

[pliant apex]

But Ice way this game is, parses become the goal.. I just think ppl are in denial about it

[nimble tartan]

true! and to add on top of this sometimes ur parse will be bad because u are choosing guild first over yourself. the best guild i ever been in ~world 45 literally no orange parsers in prog most of the parse proggers around like us 30 and 16 hr guilds bro

[limber lion]

I'm legitimately the only person in my guild who parses well

[slow marsh]

parses aren't the goal when you're progressing

[limber lion]

But it doesn't matter

The bosses still die

And that's the thing that matters.

[slow marsh]

sounds like puglife

[limber lion]

As long as we kill the boss and get good progress in, we gucci

Parses are very often tied to some sort of padding as well

Not always, but often.

[slow marsh]

you parse for memes after you have stuff on farm

[pliant apex]

Respect from the community comes only from parses, I stand by that statement 100%

[potent rune]

i believe doing mechs = progressing and parse = resume for recruitment (sorta)

[slow marsh]

well then you're bad lol

[nimble tartan]

respect from people who dont understand what it takes to prog well maybe

[slow marsh]

respect from the community comes from killing bosses

nobody gives a shit about your parse if you can't kill the boss

[limber lion]

Do you respect me?

[pliant apex]

Only reason i respect cev and whisp etc is their parse

Yes very

[limber lion]

Ah shame.

[slow marsh]

well then you're full of shit lol

[balmy condor]

my parse?

[slow marsh]

whisp raids heroic

[limber lion]

I thought it was because of our expertise

Not our parses

[stoic needle]

respecting whispyr's heroic parses

[nimble tartan]

sorry cev u just a number

[slow marsh]

whisp respect comes from 10000 iq

[stoic needle]

[limber lion]

unlucky

[balmy condor]

I come from a long lineage of heroic raiders

it takes a lot to stomp on people progging heroic invera in may

[pliant apex]

That’s nuance cev, and ppl don’t care about nuance, they just pretend they do

I see orange Color I respect

[slow marsh]

well then you're just bad

[pliant apex]

Idc whether you helped the guild or not

I’m honest Ice

[slow marsh]

that's cool

you're honestly bad then

[pliant apex]

And I’m no worse than other players

[slow marsh]

your mindset definitely is

[pliant apex]

You’re too ordinary to accept denial

[stoic needle]

do you respect the people who get rank 1 parse with 10 PIs?

[slow marsh]

and its no wonder no guild probably wants you

[mighty owl]

[plain thistle]

WAIT, if whispyr parses arent good, why do we listen to him?

[frail fossil]

[stoic needle]

it's one thing to respect someone for their parses, it's another thing to respect someone ONLY for their parses

[plain thistle]

[frail fossil]

this is it, the worst opinion

[pliant apex]

Yes , and that’s my point. Ordinary/most wow players only understand colours

[stoic needle]

there's people in here who parse well but are complete idiots

[balmy condor]

great question

[stoic needle]

ok but who cares about most wow players

[slow marsh]

i mean tbh

[frail fossil]

like bro this council parse were 80% of ur dmg is on waiters really show u are such a good raider poggas

[slow marsh]

i think its an obvious troll

[plain thistle]

yeah, lets bring that guy that gets 8-9 PI every fight and let him teach us

[slow marsh]

plain member no role on mobile

[limber lion]

What do you mean? He just got recruited to a guild because of his amazing parses

[slow marsh]

prolly some bored degen that needs something to pass time in between mtg games

[pliant apex]

I think I stuck a never didn’t I, calling y’all’s bill shut out, well so be it

Insulting me don’t change facts Ice

[frail fossil]

yeah you're factually wrong bro

[slow marsh]

not really insulting just calling out a troll

[pliant apex]

No. I’m not . Most wow players too casual to understand nuance; they respect parses

I’m not a troll, it’s insulting to me to be called that

[frail fossil]

and ? does that make it the right way to only judge a player by ?

[pliant apex]

No, but that’s what happens

That’s what I’m saying

[frail fossil]

cuz u just said this is what u do

[limber lion]

Bigger number, better person

[frail fossil]

so if u do it

u think it's right yeah ?

[stoic needle]

most wow players are idiots

the sky is also blue

[pliant apex]

Pretty much cev. You don’t even remotely agree with that ?

[frail fossil]

not if all of ur dps is echoes of sin dmg bro

[pliant apex]

It’s not right, but I’m the everywhere wow player

[limber lion]

Wouldn't that be kind of egoistical?

[frail fossil]

then you're fine with being wrong ?

so if u know u're wrong why are u arguing with people saying u're wrong

[pliant apex]

Because ppl pretend most ppl don’t think that way

They do

[ruby birch]

wtf did i miss

[pliant apex]

Yall don’t , I get that; most ppl do

[stoic needle]

one more time

who

cares

about

most

people

[frail fossil]

i mean sounds like u're trash and u plays with trash players

[stoic needle]

who cares?????

[pliant apex]

I do

[frail fossil]

dont act like we're like u

[slow marsh]

just a troll doing troll things

[stoic needle]

stop caring

[ruby birch]

is this about what colour is on your warcraft logs

[frail fossil]

like u literally just seems to be bad and play with bad players

and u took ur case for a given

sounds like a you problem

[slow marsh]

take it to the DH discord

they will prolly agree with you

[pliant apex]

It’s about my go. Parses matter to me , it’s another matter altogether I’m too shit to even parse blue

Ego **

But I admit it

[frail fossil]

because cleary i dont care about ur parse on sire if 80% of ur dmg is p1

[slow marsh]

This channel is full of real gamers we dont give a shit about your parse

[frail fossil]

it matters, but it's not always accurate to a player's skill

u need to go through the log

and not just look at the color

[pliant apex]

Heh it’ll be egotistical yes , but most ppl wish they were in a position to BE egotistical, lord knows I do

[balmy condor]

dude they're all making fun of me but grey is my favorite color man wtf bullies

[frail fossil]

bro u're so cringe lmfaoooo

[nimble tartan]

tbf there is like a weird jump so as a casual heroic parses are everything to get into a low low tier mythic guild that see that as everything and that goes all the way up to like mid/upper mid tier guilds where u get like 12-16 hr guilds struggling to compete with 9-12 hr guilds cause they stil have parse brain mentality

[frail fossil]

mf talking like he's in a naruto fanfiction

[ruby birch]

bullying whispyr wtf

[nimble tartan]

then after that peopel care way less

so as a player looking to get into mythic u sorta do have to just all in parses for a foot in a door

and then parse for a foot in a higher door

[ruby birch]

[slow marsh]

parses are just a guideline

[ruby birch]

itll be ok

[balmy condor]

[nimble tartan]

until u let go of what made u a monster

to become chadx gamer

[limber lion]

I'm straight chilling, just eating pringles, drinking some coca-cola and reading the shit show. I was thinking of popping on Netflix, but this'll do

[pliant apex]

All casuals care about are parses and colours

[limber lion]

[compact pumice]

Casuals don't even know how to check parses I think

[slow marsh]

so you're a casual

cool

[pliant apex]

What you guys are saying , fuck off if you’re casual coz we’re not

Yes Ice

And? You want to insult me then?

[slow marsh]

i think that when you join a class discord and select a role you no longer fit in the 'casual' category

[delicate smelt]

does the ilvl bracket parses matter?

[slow marsh]

but that's just my opinion

[silent fossil]

https://i.imgur.com/A7PkWtQ.png would u say this warrior is good art

[pliant apex]

I do , I am here and I am casual

[silent fossil]

cuz he's caused a lot of our wipes on progression and plays like a chimp a lot

[pliant apex]

All I saw was 92.2 swear to god and I would lick his ass

[ruby birch]

wtf

[pliant apex]

I’m not a good player , barely Mediocre

all I. Read was 92

That’s my point

THAT is 80-90% wow community

[stoic needle]

ok then

[pliant apex]

Why not admit it

[stoic needle]

stop being like that

[compact pumice]

Casuals have questions like "should I bleed the bear on huntsman"? Casuals don't worship high parses, they think getting a high parse is cheese and unattainable under normal circumstances.

[stoic needle]

you have a choice

[compact pumice]

I've talked to a lot (almost a whole guild) who said someone didn't need to improve even if they were doing tank DPS, since they just said that mechanics was everything.

Which is true until you start hitting the damn enrage mechanics...

[pliant apex]

I lack respect in everyday life: a parse color makes me think I’ll get it from some ppl on wow.

But I’m honest

Most ppl wouldn’t accept that

[ruby birch]

dude

this is evolving into a personal real life issue

[pliant apex]

I’m just honest MSN

Man*

[subtle tundra]

yea but your real life isnt ass topic

[pliant apex]

Ofc it’s personal Everything is personal

[subtle tundra]

sin*

[ruby birch]

if you're lacking validation in real life, i dont think parses on WoW are a healthy form of getting that validation

[subtle tundra]

maybe your life is ass

assassination

[pliant apex]

It is

[subtle tundra]

🕴️

booga

[pliant apex]

Why else do you think I play wow

[timber basalt]

[pliant apex]

But I’m special enough to own it

No denial

No bs

[ruby birch]

unfortunately this is a channel that talks about how to apply poisons to your daggers and hit stuff efficiently, i do not think we should talk about personal life matters here

[timber basalt]

noone's denying you're special

[balmy condor]

hey man you too

[compact pumice]

Maybe you shouldn't project what you think on other people. It's better to start looking at yourself and find out why you think the way you do, and this isn't really the best place to do that.

[balmy condor]

[pliant apex]

Fair enough I’ll stop talking

[slow marsh]

ty

[pliant apex]

Asshole

[slow marsh]

sorry man i'm just being honest ya feel me

[pliant apex]

Me too

[limber lion]

Are we all friends now?

[slow marsh]

I think so

[hollow escarp]

so do you guys hold shiv for vendetta?

[limber lion]

w0w kohjack, read the pins

[hollow escarp]

ok

[slow marsh]

I always save my shiv for vendetta

like I hold that shit for a full 1.5mins

[low girder]

Sire prog huh?

[scarlet spade]

Anyone have any idea what the drop rate is on conduits

Looking to upgrade my well placed steel its at 184 right now but I have a dos 10 i was gonna run to take a crack at getting it

[low girder]

Uh, decently high. Not sure if there's an exact number out there

[indigo mulch]

Is it worth running ep/vigor with doom blade for prog on sire?

[stoic needle]

BS DS

[indigo mulch]

I mean I have r4 zoldycks aswell

[stoic needle]

then probably that too lol

[limber lion]

Just go full P3 ST

[indigo mulch]

I'm just curious if it's worth losing a bunch of p1/p2 dmg for p3

[limber lion]

It's pretty unnecessary damage honestly.

It can help if you have tight checks in P2

We had just 3 dudes using cooldowns on Baron, so it was slightly spicy sometimes.

[indigo mulch]

O.o

Where did you use the other cds?

I assume you ran 5 melee

[limber lion]

EP definitely helps with bursting the add down, but it's a lot worse in p3

Can't remember

I'm in bed

[indigo mulch]

Bed discord gang.

Either way. I think we can deal with p2 adds pretty easily with our comp

But the other rogue is running the ep vigor build so he does like 1k more dps than me overall

It's sad to see =c

[slow marsh]

I mean

Sort by boss to sire though

I was progging last night and got down on myself a bit hovering like 10th overall but i was #1 to sire most pulls. It's just all the padding on upstairs adds and it doesn't even out until p3

[balmy condor]

Isn’t it 1am?

[low girder]

i never look at sire dmg either because i'm holding shiv for like a minute so we don't push lol

not until p2

[hollow escarp]

3 for him

[frail fossil]

it's 2 am out here

[hollow escarp]

there are multiple timezones in EU

[balmy condor]

[thorny pond]

Thought this was NA server?

[subtle tundra]

It's a wow discord server

Wow has multiple regions

[thorny pond]

I'm being a dense ass

[empty tide]

@indigo mulch in the end all that matters is p3 dmg, and you should have more than enough cleave classes do get through p1 and p2 (ww,dks,boomkins,etc)

gotta do it for the team

and rogues on p3 are usually top3 boss dmg

[kind spoke]

Does anyone run assassination for tyrannical mythic plus and if so what's your talent setup and leggo?

Looking at Zoldyck and Subterfuge / CT

[stoic needle]

2212223 Zoldyck

is the preferred M+ talent setup and legendary

[umbral sigil]

in the pins for the soulbinds chart. Was is that in the first potency conduit?

its a shiv icon but im assuming its well-placed steel?

[kind spoke]

Yeah well placed steel

[stoic needle]

that soulbind chart is outdated

don't follow it

[umbral sigil]

D:

[kind spoke]

M+ Ven'thyr running Nadjia or Theotar

[stoic needle]

theotar

wasteland propriety + lashing

[kind spoke]

TY

[prime narwhal]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[hollow river]

EP, MA and CT for Sire correct

[steep obsidian]

You ain’t there to do p1 add dam as sin at least on prog

[balmy condor]

Care to tell me how?

Fuu updated it less than a month ago

So unless you know something I don’t

[faint harness]

he did

[stoic needle]

Oh I didn't know that he updated it

But yea the theotar one shows double potency

[potent rune]

but the shield breaks stealth

[stoic needle]

Exactly

And it's also just worse even if it didn't

[balmy condor]

It’s single target soulbinds

The shield breaking doesn’t affect it in raids

[stoic needle]

But double potency is worse for st than lashing+wasteland

[balmy condor]

Not on my profiles

Idk maybe something changed

[stoic needle]

Hmm I can double check I could be wrong

[hollow river]

@steep obsidian what would you suggest for sire then my good sir

i believe i asked a couple weeks ago im just bad and forgot

[steep obsidian]

Talk to your raid leader and see what he wants

[hollow river]

trying to get the best overall dps

[steep obsidian]

Most likely he wants you to pump boss dam

[hollow river]

not having an issue with any adds

[steep obsidian]

And doesn’t care about overall

So just do some sims and see what works for you too

[balmy condor]

Play zold

[steep obsidian]

Yar

There are even a few parses in the Top 100 using it

Not that that has anything to do with prog

[hollow river]

😮

when we consistantly get to p3 ill use zold

[balmy condor]

I would suggest not switching legendaries mid prog

[hollow river]

got it

thanks for the help. god's work here

[balmy condor]

[elfin valley]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[stoic needle]

hmm i guess double potency theotar is better than lashing wasteland

[gusty mirage]

yeah its slightly ahead, I ran double potency when I ran theo in raid

[whole mason]

Dungeon slice?

[stoic needle]

for patchwerk

wasteland is better for dungeon slice

[whole mason]

For st use theotar?

[gusty mirage]

no use nadjia

still better

[compact pumice]

Why can't you sim multiple different scenarios though, I wanna see a top gear setup for Patch, Hectic, DSlice and whatever at the same time

[gusty mirage]

You can on the simc app

but that's not the same and a bit of extra work

[compact pumice]

So why hasn't raidbots implemented it then

[gusty mirage]

tbh I'm not sure, if they made it a premium only feature it would def drive up income for them

[fathom swift]

cause it's really niche and people would use that very rarely?

like how often do you want to use the exact same gear setup for all of those situations

[whole mason]

For council, you may use theotar.

[torn atlas]

I just open multiple raibots tabs and copy the same input to each one but change the sim type.

[stoic needle]

yeah lol just open multiple browser tabs

[compact pumice]

You can say that about anything though. Like if I wanted to sim different covenants and it wasn't possible then "just open multiple tabs".

It's just one of the variables you want to tweak, should be batch simmable just like anything else.

[stoic needle]

changing sim types completely is a bit different from changing one or two variables

especially since the different fight types take varying amounts of processing power depending on spec

[compact pumice]

It doesn't really save them any cost if I'm still doing the calculations in multiple tabs though does it

Should just decrease the amount of variations you can test or something dynamically in Top Gear

[stoic needle]

it does however save them development costs

you'd need to make changes to the GUI to allow that

[compact pumice]

Sure! It does. And maybe it's even on their roadmap

[stoic needle]

it's easier for them to just let people open multiple tabs

[compact pumice]

Who knows what they are developing for the future

GUI wise though, it would be very minor compared to the actual implementation in the backend.

[marsh ridge]

Does the bleed from the mutilate lego give us energy back?

[shy dust]

No

[placid dawn]

is hidden blades for sire just parse?

ct for prog right?

[steep obsidian]

ct isn't mandatory even for a high log

[fathom swift]

why would you want to compare the same set of gear/talents etc. in both a st and an aoe situation at once? how much use would a setting like that actually get, compared to how easy it is to just run those sims separately?

[placid dawn]

its not about mandatory or not, its about what is best for prog

[gusty mirage]

I mean if stat weights is still a thing, I don't see why that idea being niche is a negative

[fathom swift]

ct isn't good for sire prog

[gusty mirage]

Sure it may not get a lot of use, but it would get some use

[fathom swift]

stat weights already exist, that would require dev time to add which would be better spent elsewhere imo

[compact pumice]

I can think of a few scenarios I'd want to test.
What Top Gear combination is best for each scenario
What enchants and gems are better for which content and much overlap is there
How much will a gear/talent/soulbind be for patchwerk, for add cleave, for multipatchwerk, etc, to "try to sim for a specific fight"

[gusty mirage]

I get your point, it's a completely valid point from a developer standpoint

Kinda picking and choosing where you spend your time & resources is incredibly important for any project management scenario

but I like to nerd out on info and know a lot more than I'll probably ever need :3

[fathom swift]

you can already just sim those independently tho

the feature you're asking for will only save literally 5 seconds

[compact pumice]

If simcraft already has support to launch a sim with different scenarios which Raidbots is using as backend AND the minimal changes to the GUI needed to be done it becomes more a question as to why they haven't prioritized it, which may have a legitimate answer

[fathom swift]

because dev time is more useful elsewhere

[compact pumice]

You can say that about any of the features, that it already has

[compact pumice]

It will save more than 5 secs

[fathom swift]

copy tab, hit run sim again, change fightstyle, sim

literally 5 seconds

[compact pumice]

Copy tab doesn't copy everything in a Top gear setup you have already done. The best way to do it now is to run one sim for patch (since it's quickest) and then alt-click "Sim again" multiple times and run each with a different scenario

Which I do regularly

[fathom swift]

that's what i said

but it takes 5 seconds

[velvet nacelle]

i love my forever grey parses on darkvein

18% baby! come at me with your "skill" and "better stat priorities"

[stoic needle]

are you like... not bleeding the adds?

[velvet nacelle]

i am but i get slammed with mechanics on every kill shot

i'm at like high 6s most wipes

then we get a kill shot and i get every beam, every add between cloaks

i also don't really notice much of a dps change for getting ruptures on the adds

i mean mathematically it makes sense that it'd be impactful but yeah

our kill shot i got killed twice on beams waiting for the 3rd guy get into position and i'm using cloak pre-add cast

[misty holly]

Someone made a website that tracks how likely a given spec is to time a completed M+ key by pulling data from the api. Rogues were at the top of the list and sin rogues #1 place. Nicely done everyone. https://keyscore.me/

[velvet nacelle]

wow surprised we beat out outlaw but maybe everyone's like me and sick and tired of outlaw in m+ after the past 2 expansions

how high are you guys peaking on your openers in raids anyways?

i'm only hitting like 11-12ishk

[misty holly]

Outlaw is still much more popular

but sin rogues are clearly very skilled players.

[velvet nacelle]

i like to think that that's why i parse so low, the rest of you are just very skilled

i get like 80-90 ilvl parses on my other characters and on my rogue i'm solidly in blue parse land

[hazy crater]

Or you just play rogue worse than your other classes

[stoic needle]

it takes a truly sophisticated kind of gamer to appreciate sin in M+

[craggy basin]

zold on pant or boots?

pants for higher stats i assume?

[balmy condor]

Panties homie

[craggy basin]

thx 😄

[stoic needle]

technically boots will be better in 9.1

[proper sage]

do boots scale better than pants?

[balmy condor]

Notify you kinda suck in your stomach and make yourself lighter t sknwo what I meant ? Yup just weigh yourself and little bit light sup you breathe in

Fúcking finger

But like the make yourself lighter

[stoic needle]

Yes

[strange python]

I play and stay ass rogue

just did a quick 11 SD for renown and testing bone spike. 5,4k average dps

lvlv 22 renown now

[misty zenith]

I love sin in keys

It’s like feral, but less tedious, no owl weaving and has an immune.

[north basin]

Btw how many flag stacks do we need to obtain every flag usage for venthyr to be able to surpass necro in ST?

In terms of dps

[limber lion]

There isn't any number

Flag wins always.

Sometimes you get 21, sometimes you get 27

You don't really do anything special during flag windows

[half oriole]

Flag before vendetta or after?

[limber lion]

Doesn't matter, sim uses Vendetta after flag but many players tend to use Vendetta before Flag

[half oriole]

Yeah this is what’s confusing me

[limber lion]

Just do what you want, the dps difference is very minimal, it honestly doesn't really matter

We're talking about less than 10 dps here

[half oriole]

Uhh then not worth thinking about it

[limber lion]

Yep

[stone vale]

How is spamming swipe and having to reapply primal wrath every 5 seconds because you’re using circle tedious?

[misty zenith]

Because swipe is capped, and with more then 4 you are tab raking

Then you have to make sure that every PW has a TF buff

Then you have to weave

I am enjoying Sin 100% more in keys and it shows, I do a lot more damage on a lowered geared character

[strange python]

You should look forward though. Who cares about low geared and low keys? 🙂

I see all the top ones also use necrolord

[frail fossil]

it doesn't include china in those statistics

[limber lion]

Yeah, usually playing something that you enjoy will yield better results if the alternative is close enough.

[old galleon]

when doing burst, do you vanish before or after vendetta? with master assasin

[limber lion]

You want to Vanish inside the Vendetta window

You also want to use Shiv before using Vanish

[frail fossil]

usually u want around 2/3 cp depending on vigor/deeper and use shiv before vanish

so u vanish > mute > envenom

[vestal wren]

how is this aggregating damage, most people don't log m+

[frail fossil]

wait is it actually saying assa is doing more dmg than mage

[vestal wren]

yes

it says sub does more than mage or ele

[frail fossil]

they gotta stop with these scuffed website

they're paying an IP to misimform people

[limber lion]

Yeh, there's so many of these as well

[vestal wren]

unless i missread it:

[limber lion]

No clue where they get their info from

[frail fossil]

i swear someone gotta put a stop to that

[limber lion]

Nah, that's how I interpreted it as well fuu

[frail fossil]

also all stats from the api doesn't include CN

which is a huge part of the player base

[vestal wren]

all those websites have some good ideas

[frail fossil]

and rogue player specficially

[vestal wren]

but the problem is usually:
#1 they don't present information on what they do and what value the metric has
#2 they often make very specialized graphs

ad #2, you can read "how to fake statistics" to get a idea why this is bad

[limber lion]

#3 and are often incorrect in what they state

[frail fossil]

honestly like all websites trying to do an objective ranking usually never protrays it acurately

unless they put warlock in S tier, that is always true

[limber lion]

But yeh

There's always going to be scummy websites

Casuals get baited into them

[vestal wren]

not nessecerly, they possibly state sth correct but unless they tell us "what they show" its easy to missinterprete

[frail fossil]

but i mean realistically who are these websites helping, just giving bad information to new players, cuz obv experienced and good players will not go on wowmeta and such to determine which spec is better or which isn't*

[limber lion]

Yeah, that's true.

[stoic needle]

That's not saying damage, that's the damage role

[limber lion]

Huh

[stoic needle]

The percentage is the likelihood that a specific spec successfully times the key

[frail fossil]

does that change that sub is in fact ahead of elem, boomkin and mage in their list

[stoic needle]

It literally days 'damage' 'tank' 'healer'

[stoic needle]

It just means that the people playing sub are gamers

[limber lion]

Also why is the layout so awful

[stoic needle]

It's probably 99% grimzyo

[vestal wren]

and there we go

[frail fossil]

yeah idk it doesn't even explains what it represent

[limber lion]

Or is it just a phone thing

[vestal wren]

faked statistics, here we come

[frail fossil]

[limber lion]

But yeah, that's legit unnecessary and dumb statistic

[stoic needle]

Faked statistics?

[frail fossil]

PLAY SUB ROGUES TO TIME UR KEYS GUYS

THIS IS THE SECRET

[limber lion]

It doesn't tell anything

[vestal wren]

if you look at lower brackets subtlety has a low % sucess chance

like 3rd or 2nd last

but the worse success chance of the "lower keys" is a lot higher than on higher keys

if you look at very high keys you only have sub on very few keys

and this means basically sub is excluded from "high keys"

[stoic needle]

This is based on the blizzard API of all keys so it doesn't rely on people logging

[vestal wren]

this is why sub overall is high, it only has data for lower "more sucessfull" keys

the website does not factor the key level in to their data

so it shows a "correct" statistic that a spec thats only played in low keys is one of the most sucessfull keys

[stoic needle]

You're just looking at this week

[vestal wren]

but its missleading

[stoic needle]

Check the other weeks

[vestal wren]

the shortcomming of the statistic is shown in the current week

[stoic needle]

If you sort by all brackets and all time the numbers look quite different

[vestal wren]

its basically a problem of distribution and baise at the top end

[limber lion]

Can we all just agree that the website is awful and is basically useless information?

[indigo mulch]

[stoic needle]

I don't think it's really useless, I think it's interesting

[old galleon]

@limber lion @frail fossil thank youuu

[vestal wren]

its not useless, but missleading

[frail fossil]

ur welcome king

[indigo mulch]

I wonder how well sub is actually going to do in dungeons after 9.1

I actually enjoyed sub quite a lot in dungeons.

[stoic needle]

If you look at all/all it looks like the generally accepted m+ tier list lol

[frail fossil]

it'll be fine if u wanna play it

for sure

i dont think the BP buffs were wise they should've buffed ST but i mean what can u do

[stoic needle]

Tornado is looking giga for aoe

[indigo mulch]

I mean all specs are fine tbh.

[vestal wren]

so you would put sub above dk in a tier list?

interesting

[frail fossil]

but sub might be very good in 9.1 for m+ who knows

buffing sub aoe is def a weirdchamp from me tho

buff evis

[vestal wren]

9.1 m+ will probably depend a lot on the m+ affix

[limber lion]

How is it useful in any way?

Most players deplete keys after wiping, or if a team mate afks or dcs, or if a team mate ragequits the group

[vestal wren]

subtlety could be good outside of that if the pull sizes are big enough, but the affix probably will have quite a big impact on our spec/class picks

[limber lion]

It's not like the spec is the reason for the deplete

Usually it's some other outside variable

[indigo mulch]

I wish tanks actually could tank tbh. Sin would be so much better in dungeons that way. 😦 Tanks could pull bigger and stuff would survive longer. Assassinations aoe dps is pretty nutty on 16+ targets

[limber lion]

Like a russian healer leaving the group

[frail fossil]

16+ target bro ?

[indigo mulch]

Yes?

[limber lion]

Does that mean assassination is bad because someone in my group ragequit after 6 mins?

[indigo mulch]

Double CT on everything!

[frail fossil]

CT is capped

[stoic needle]

https://twitter.com/nerftanktv/status/1391223055188480007?s=21

NERF (@NerfTankTV)

Guardian druid is broken, please nerf so I don't have to play this sleeper class. https://t.co/7lnlQKOo8O

Likes

251

Twitter · May 9, 2021, 2:46 AM

[limber lion]

Does that mean assassination is bad because my tank dc'd and we couldn't finish the key?

[stoic needle]

Just play guardian

[limber lion]

How is thay information relevant or useful in any way

There's too many variables that can cause a deplete

Other than the spec choice

[indigo mulch]

CT is capped but if you put CT on 16 mobs the tick dmg just goes boomboom.

[frail fossil]

i mean correct me if i'm wrong but i'm p sure the dot can only go on 8 guys

[stoic needle]

You use it twice and it's on 16

[indigo mulch]

^

[frail fossil]

not ethical

[limber lion]

Just like blade flurry

If you sinister strike once, it hits 6 targets around you

[stoic needle]

I just think the information is interesting to look at, Im not trying to use it to make any statements about spec viability of anything like that

[limber lion]

You sinister strike again, it hits 6 targets again

[frail fossil]

no cuz it cannot use blade flurry cannot dmg 10 dudes at the same time

[shadow helm]

me go back stinky boy

[vestal wren]

to reiterate on the "tier list agument"
this is the top dps in all/all tier list

while outlaw/ww/mage/balance/fury seems fine

[limber lion]

That's true, tell that to the mages destroying 40 mob packs

[vestal wren]

survival/havoc/assassination that high?

[frail fossil]

so if u just have a big pulls and u just need CT twice and 16 mobs will take dmg at the same time

nerf CT on god

like unironically CT is too strong

[limber lion]

Lol

Assassination is stilll considered the weaker m+ spec

So

[stoic needle]

I didn't say it looked exactly like the commonly accepted list, I said it looked similar

[limber lion]

[indigo mulch]

But you cant do that, because tanks arent tanky enough to do that on high keys.

[frail fossil]

i wont let assa have good aoe not on my watch

[stoic needle]

But look at the number of players by comparison

[vestal wren]

idk if i would put any of those 3 specs above elemental shaman

[frail fossil]

i mean just look at the mobs bro

[limber lion]

Fuu, why are you still looking at that website

[frail fossil]

there are very few mobs u could pull 16 off even if tank were tankier

cuz u know they do things

like casts and such

[limber lion]

It's shit.

No reason to track which spec times a dungeon and what %

[stoic needle]

Did you see that Twitter video I posted

[limber lion]

It's a completely dumn statistic

That have no relevance whatsoever

[frail fossil]

yeah i mean those are literally just dummy mobs that do nothing

[limber lion]

Me playing assassination and depleting a key because of a disconnect or ragequit do not sync

[frail fossil]

but blizzard made it very important to have mobs be as obnoxious as they can with casts on such

so u couldn't big pull them

[limber lion]

Me playing assa didn't cause the rq or dc

[stoic needle]

I just want to see a guardian pull all of ardenweald at once

[limber lion]

It's the same for the other specs. Playing a spec doesn't mean that it's more likely to deplete a key

[stoic needle]

All of it

[indigo mulch]

I think the community perception of classes and specs is just a bit to much meh.

If you ask me.

You can complete pretty much any key as assassination or sub tbh 😒

[frail fossil]

thing is that's not the problem, why u would do it as sub when u could do it with meta classes more easily

it's like in raid u dont need to stack 4 unholy dks

but it sure is easier to do so

[stoic needle]

Because it's more fun

[vestal wren]

the twitter video just shows how easy the rotation becomes on bug pulls iirc

idk if i would argue that any of the tanks is that more complex to play tho

[frail fossil]

i mean this is literally like why u dont see good players on bad spec, cuz they can just play the good specs and everything becomes easier for them

like yeah u can time keys with a demon comp sub, blood dk, demo lock and idk arcane mage

[limber lion]

The top tier players rarely want to handicap themselves just to play a spec that's "more fun"

[vestal wren]

not everyone chases the meta

[frail fossil]

but it's easier to take vdh/bear mage boomie

and that literally applies to a lot of people who tries to push keys not even at a high level

[vestal wren]

90% of players in here don't because they did not switch away fom rogue even tho it was probably the worse class in cn

[frail fossil]

why they would play something that makes push harder for them

[limber lion]

And that 2% being the CF's and Shadowblades

[vestal wren]

i changed it to 90%

[limber lion]

Hey, you switched it

:(

[vestal wren]

given i know some switched

[frail fossil]

this isn't what i'm saying, i'm just saying like people dont chase fotm cuz it's the only class being able to time good keys or do good in raid, they play them cuz it's easier to do so

[indigo mulch]

I was forced to switch 😦

Not forced but i wouldnt really have a raidspot if i didnt go WW at the time lol

[frail fossil]

like u take a affli lock and a enhanc sham in raid, one will have to make more effort than the other to be competitive

[north basin]

I tried mage in m+, and i find assa rotation more satisfying, more apm, more decisions, harder.

[frail fossil]

so most people dont play it

but good enhanc owns

like whenever people are starting to get into hard content they'll always play meta cuz it'll seem easier for them

this is why u see wr 1500 guild only asking for DKs and warlocks

when some very good guilds run much less "meta" comp and perform 10000% better

[limber lion]

I think it's completely fine switching specs to get better results and help your team succeed. But I also think it's completely fine just being a OTP.

[indigo mulch]

DK's are just strong because of AMZ and warlocks has been busted pretty much the entire tier.

[limber lion]

Rarely are you ever in a position where your class or spec choice will handicap your raid comp

[frail fossil]

they also cant die, have execute, are the best pi target, do good damage in st and aoe

[limber lion]

Unless of course you're in a top 20 guild pushing for ranks

[north basin]

Raidleadee is the one who inviting, and he have some perceptions about meta fotm etc, if he didnt ever play ur class.

[frail fossil]

i do think a lot of new guilds/new players are shooting themselves in the foot without realizing it by having such a restricted vision on specs

like literally why do 4/10m guild look for specific meta class, just say open to every dps and u'll get more chance of getting good new players in

[north basin]

We know truth, about assa, just need to persuade others we are totally fine in mythic and m+ )

[indigo mulch]

I mean, rogue dps is fine it has nothing to do with their dps tbh. The problem with rogue is that they don't relaly bring anything to the raid while you have multiple buff classes.

[limber lion]

But yeh, nothing wrong with chasing the meta.

[frail fossil]

cuz playing a less meta spec is also motivating in the sense that u'll work harder to compete

but also i understand why ppl chase meta

[limber lion]

It's easier to get good results

And be accepted into stuff

[frail fossil]

like yeah u can do keys as bdk but doing them as bear/vdh is straight up easier

[low girder]

Beard tank class when

[frail fossil]

[frail fossil]

i picture all bear main as big bearded boomers

[warm parcel]

With a leather jacket

And a cig

[limber lion]

I have a friend who plays bear and he's pretty much that

He's fucking huge

Like 200cm tall

[warm parcel]

That was our bear tank too

[frail fossil]

i mean idk but the bear animation just are so funny, it really looks like the guy playing it is like totally dense

idk the way they move around is just hilarious

[warm parcel]

Lol

[frail fossil]

if there is one boomer spec

it's bear

assa cant compete

[low girder]

Werebear or death

[north basin]

Do we have some statistics which specs/classes finished 10/10 myth and in which quantity? I feel we like all time low maybe with surv hunters together

[limber lion]

Lol

[frail fossil]

check how much surv hunter lgos there is on sire, but also u wont have private logs

[indigo mulch]

I think rogues are one of the best specs for sire tbh.

Atleast assassination rogues.

[frail fossil]

i would say rogue is very good for sire

and not just assa

[warm parcel]

Copium

[north basin]

Not talking about best. Just about quantity

[frail fossil]

outlaw is bis

[low girder]

We're one of the least played classes, that'll always happen

[limber lion]

We're doing fine now, we were struggling in 9.0

[frail fossil]

check wcl sire logs u can check the numbers, but u wont have access to the exact numbers

[tulip nacelle]

my guildie is a bear main, he's like 18 and used to do figure skating

[warm parcel]

Yeh rogue is always on low end of repredentation

[limber lion]

Don't have the numbers, Watson

[frail fossil]

like wcl sire logs number can give u an idea of a spec popularity

[low girder]

The only one ever lower than us on a class wide basis is monk

[frail fossil]

but no exact number, as private logs exist

[frail fossil]

p sure they stonked up this patch

[limber lion]

But didn't they get nerfed when they fixed the bugs?

[indigo mulch]

WW is super strong, prob one of the strongest melee specs after unholy.

[low girder]

It's not about strength, just representation

[indigo mulch]

They do a bout the same damage as they did pre-nerfs on live.

[low girder]

Even when monk is strong as fuck

[frail fossil]

they do less ST

[low girder]

No one plays it

[frail fossil]

than before

[limber lion]

Assa does more damage than udk lol

[indigo mulch]

I mean as a whole in CN.

[frail fossil]

without PI

cuz PIed DKs are on crack

[limber lion]

Yeh

[indigo mulch]

PI'ed rogues on execute is pretty nutty too D:

ngl

[low girder]

I should've asked for it in p3

[limber lion]

Assuming we run the PI lege

And Blindside

[low girder]

Actually I think they were both out of mirror so rip

[frail fossil]

i mean like r1 uh is 300 more dps than the r1 assa on hungering and the r1 assa got 7 PI

[limber lion]

We had an SP that did 4.3k damage in p3

He should have definitely just PI'd one of us ibstead

[low girder]

4.3k wtf

[indigo mulch]

Wait how do you do 4.3k in p3 as an SP o.o

tanks do like 5k =/

[frail fossil]

assa is not really a good pi target realistically

[limber lion]

[indigo mulch]

Why not @frail fossil ?

[low girder]

Ours did like 5.8 or something

[frail fossil]

because u have 5 specs that benefits more from it ?

[limber lion]

Our second one did 6.4

[low girder]

I was #1 at 6.2 lol

[indigo mulch]

5 other specs that benefit more? During execute?

I dunno

[frail fossil]

like yeah PI on assa is decent but if there's 5 specs that benefits more from it u wont use it on assa

[north basin]

Well surv and frosts are lower than usin numbers) on wcl sire myth

[low girder]

Aff, dk, spriest would probably all be stronger

[frail fossil]

easy as that

[frail fossil]

warlock

[low girder]

During execute

Ye I said aff

[frail fossil]

i cant read

[indigo mulch]

aff is broken though D:

[low girder]

Lol

[frail fossil]

like on prog u just PI one of those

not assa

reclear is w/e

[low girder]

Mage is also probably not terrible

[frail fossil]

MM also was omega with PI before

but a bit less now

but if u PIed a MM on wild spirit in aoe everything would just disappear

[warm parcel]

Assa exwcute isnt even as giga as yall make it sound like

Shackles is like 10%

Its not that big

[frail fossil]

10% more dmg when u hit 30% range when doomblade is 8% during the entire fight

[low girder]

250 up in execute vs doomblade for me last I checked, but also 200 down in overall

[warm parcel]

Yea

[frail fossil]

poggas assa execute

[low girder]

It's definitely not giga

[warm parcel]

I mean it is exe

And I value exe

[frail fossil]

and like idk honestly people saying that only P3 matters on sire are kinda capping

like yeah it's the race

[warm parcel]

But its not like assa becomes godtier when boss hits 30%

[frail fossil]

but u want those fucking adds and phase the boss faster in p2

which is giga important to even see p3

[glass grotto]

while playing necrolord do we open with sbs instead of mut ?

[low girder]

Zoldyck is still pretty good in p2 as well

[limber lion]

Yes

[frail fossil]

so idk like people saying "yoo only p3 matters" is kinda meme and not very accurate

[steep obsidian]

maybe just maybe not every single guild has the same exrperience or the same struggles in sire

[frail fossil]

yeah

that's why such statement is untrue

[indigo mulch]

It very much depends on your comp.

[limber lion]

I did argue that one day in here Flower and I got shat on by 10 people

[warm parcel]

That said, Id use shackle on proge cause for us p2 dps wasnt as problematic

[frail fossil]

i mean people just repeat what limit max says

[low girder]

P2 dps was basically never a problem I'd solve with doomblade

So I stayed zoldyck

[frail fossil]

i'm not rly talking about doom vs zold on sire, just that people underestimated the importance of p2 in general

[limber lion]

If you have problems with P2, instead of hitting yourself in the head, just play EP instead. It's more burst for when you need to kill the add and not a massive loss in P3

[indigo mulch]

If your failing p2 dps on adds its prob more of a cooldown issue than you having an execute build over ep/vigor build with doomblade.

[low girder]

Oh, ye

[north basin]

In overall numbers zoldyks effects aproxx giving us 10% total damage after 30%?

[warm parcel]

I didnt prog prog on rog so I can only say on reclears I straight up equipped zol

[steep obsidian]

mm hunter can kinda carry p2 a lot with volley remornia cheese

[warm parcel]

Its bout 10% yes

[limber lion]

I just played EP/Vig and Doomblade on prog.

[frail fossil]

it's also not the same thing when u kill it now than months ago

[limber lion]

And was #1 in p3

[frail fossil]

P2 dps was very tight

[limber lion]

And #1 in p2

[low girder]

I mean I still blasted sire dmg in p2, it's all about cd assignments

[warm parcel]

Same

I was 3rd on boss dam p2

[limber lion]

We only had 3 people using CD's om Baron and a lot of the time we didn't meet the check

[warm parcel]

Without doom

[low girder]

I think I fell to like 4th on the kill. Fucking impales

[limber lion]

Now with me swapping to Zoldyck/BS/DS would have made it miserable

[low girder]

Every other time I was top 2

[little light]

Is there any other viable legendary, besides doom and zold?

[warm parcel]

Dash

Dusk

[limber lion]

Depends on the content

Dusk is awful

[warm parcel]

New lego next patch

[low girder]

That thing sucks for sin afaik

[warm parcel]

Ill show you dusk

[indigo mulch]

Our second add just disappears instantly though 😐

[limber lion]

Dashing is good, MA is good for some things

Bring it on weak

[frail fossil]

dashing scoundrel

[limber lion]

[frail fossil]

deathly shadow for prepull cheese

(not any uses in actual fights tho)

[low girder]

I swear to God flower

[warm parcel]

Yall missing out on dusk on sludge

[frail fossil]

[limber lion]

It doesn't even line up lol

Yoy need faeries

[warm parcel]

It does

[frail fossil]

dusk would be huge if it reduced vanish too

[little light]

For example , for aoe doom is really not that great and zold feels a bit lacking, especially if mobs die fast

[warm parcel]

It makes ven 66s cd

Pillars are 68+

[north basin]

Btw guys how do we reduce/avoid impale on sire? Any tricks i dont know?

[frail fossil]

zoldyck is pretty good for m+ and aoe

and if u want more aoe u can play outlaw

[steep obsidian]

get the impale weak aura that shows you the diagram of where to stand with the impale number you have and go stand in that location near the mirror

i think there is one harder one that might go across the room late in the fight

[frail fossil]

yes last one

position properly and u should be fine

[north basin]

I have WA, just thought maybe we press something special to avoid. Dunno

[frail fossil]

healers should be ready to pump u after

[steep obsidian]

i havent tried to evasion it

[frail fossil]

i dont think feint work on it

[steep obsidian]

id assume you cant

just move quickly coz the pool ticks for like 9k

[frail fossil]

just get a healthpot/hs etc for it just in case

[north basin]

Cloak doesnt work either?

[frail fossil]

but it should not kill u

[low girder]

It's phys

[steep obsidian]

and get ready with like your self heal too

[north basin]

Fine tnx, will just use vial and hs in case.

[steep obsidian]

i THINK you might be able to bop it

i never get one of those though so im not sure

thats a healear issue as long as i dun die i dont care

[frail fossil]

If u die and u had a pot it's kinsa ur fault

But it should really never kill u unless u took bad dmg from something u could avoid before

[steep obsidian]

yah healers know to pump you after like a few pulls

if they arent dumb

[warm parcel]

They also may have to do this n that to others

[steep obsidian]

but that goes without being said

[warm parcel]

Rather pot than die

[steep obsidian]

that is one thing you should pot yar

freaking trucks

[limber lion]

If I die, it's always the healers fault not mine

[steep obsidian]

i dont clear stacks in p1 so im getting wrecked all that phase coz my guild is pretty pepega so i have sometimes potted there

[warm parcel]

https://twitter.com/Reglitch_/status/1375936165023465485

Reglitch (@Reglitch_)

https://t.co/1BeWOHokfG

Twitter · Mar 27, 2021, 10:22 PM

Reposting cause fitting

[frail fossil]

Legendary tweet

[warm parcel]

It is

Guy showed me a real goldmine of an account

[frail fossil]

I showed the account to guy

[warm parcel]

O

Good shit

[untold nest]

@steep obsidian u know u can cloak before blood price and take 0 dmg right?

[steep obsidian]

i don't think ive ever died to bloodprice

well not when it wasnt a dumb double nighthunter soak anyway

[untold nest]

Im confused as to what wrecks u in p1

[untold nest]

This

[steep obsidian]

i dont know probably adds not dying quick enough or lag

fight is a laggy piece of crap in p1

its ok mate i wasnt actually asknig for help though its fine i can figure shit out

[untold nest]

Cloak works for add dmg too. U can cloak when adds are about to tick

[steep obsidian]

i have been cloaking that i know

[sweet pecan]

wouldnt feint also work, cuz its aoe?

[tulip nacelle]

it doesn't

only with elusiveness

[limber lion]

Sire is a special boy

[steep obsidian]

i especially love it when the server is lagging so hard that the night hunters go off after the blood price

[tulip nacelle]

well feint is usually janky with what it works on

[steep obsidian]

fight stil fun tho 😐

[low girder]

still bugs me it doesn't work with blood price

[tulip nacelle]

would be kinda insane ngl

[low girder]

i mean maybe but why does it then work on SLG blades

[tulip nacelle]

I mean slg blade initial is actually an aoe

[low girder]

even though you have a giant arrow over your head

[tulip nacelle]

but it hits ppl around you

[low girder]

so does blood price

¯_(ツ)_/¯

i know why it works the way it does, because technically blood price is targeted dmg just based on number of stacks on other people

that just doesn't match up to the visual to me

and therefore i think it's dumb

[tulip nacelle]

blood price is just worded differently than it actually works I think

It sure is dumb

[low girder]

yeah the wording is that you explode

on other people

but that's definitely not how it works lol

[limber lion]

Yeah, technically everyone just takes single target damage

[tulip nacelle]

yep

[low girder]

it's also repeated dmg, not just amped

[limber lion]

It's the same damage even if yoy were spread around the room like in p3

[low girder]

i had the misfortune of dying through cheat that way once

because it explodes 10 separate times in p3

so you just die

[limber lion]

Yep

[low girder]

good stuff

[tulip nacelle]

I usually just spam hs on 2nd and cloak 1st and 3rd

[low girder]

i saved cloak for the overlap on the kill, not entirely sure why considering i wasn't using the "get knocked into red" strat

[limber lion]

I mean, I just look at my hp and act accordingly

[low girder]

so it did literally nothing

[tulip nacelle]

yea if I'm full hp I don't hs

[limber lion]

If I'm low, I cloak

If I'm full hp, I don't use anything

[tulip nacelle]

yea

[low girder]

yeah if you're above like 80% you're fine

unless you get seed

[tulip nacelle]

I got bop for overlap so I just cloaked price to help with healing

[low girder]

i just pretended i got sludge chained to my dk

"don't leave meeeeeeeee"

and then i'd step him

[prime narwhal]

what's the reason that people change their assassin build just for sludgefist?

i saw everyone went elaborate planning instead of blindside

[limber lion]

Because EP provides more burst

You usually pair that up with Vigor, which allows you to pool more resources for the pillar windows. You want to maximize damage output during the small 12s vulnerability windows

[prime narwhal]

I see. Intuitively I would think blindside would be better b/c killing him before he charges a wall is super important

so you would want that execute damage

[limber lion]

Sure, but not really

[prime narwhal]

but I guess it makes sense that u want more during pillars

[limber lion]

The more damage you do during the pillar windows, the smaller the last portion of the fight it.

[prime narwhal]

true

[limber lion]

If you do less damage during the pillars, that means that the last portion of the fight is longer

[light surge]

Is envenom buffed by zoldyck

[limber lion]

Nope.

[light surge]

ty

[hollow seal]

Yo! Im on sire progress. Can we cloak the knockback in last phase?

[limber lion]

No we cannot.

[hollow seal]

ok thanks!

[limber lion]

You're going to have to shadowstep to Sire or someone else in the raid.

No worries, mate!

[halcyon zealot]

making a step macro to ur dk friend who death advances will be ur best bet

[rose narwhal]

Is there an example opener for necrolord?

[zenith quest]

Hey! I checked the pings. And saw the sims. But is there a more explaine explanation of what covenant we pick for mythic raiding?

[limber lion]

It's the same as for Venthyr, except you use SBS as your first GCD

[limber lion]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[limber lion]

These guides explain them.

[zenith quest]

thanks

[limber lion]

But for mythic raiding usually Necrolord or Venthyr is the go-to.

Generally Venthyr sees more play.

Venthyr is the king of ST and burst, Necrolord is the king of AoE and sustained damage.

[rose narwhal]

cool thanks

[limber lion]

No worries homie.

[pliant apex]

But even for mythic raiding, NF best overall right?

[misty holly]

Don't forget necro is the king of cute pets too.

[misty zenith]

[limber lion]

It is the most forgiving and easiest to play.

[limber lion]

[quasi grotto]

So I have switched to EP and vigor for sludge, was just after some tips with pooling. Is there a bit of a go to with the timings ? And do I still fully pool for shjv windows etc

[limber lion]

You use Shiv during the pillars and once between. You still pool normally, but for pillars you would want to pool as much as possible so you have the maximum amount of resources available

Like you want to make sure to reapply bleeds before the pillar, be at 4-5 combo points and close to max energy before he hits the pillar.

[quasi grotto]

Okay so resist the 2nd shiv cast in-between pillars I was trying to get the timing right and it just never planned out !

[limber lion]

Yes, correct!

You do not want to cast Shiv on CD on Sludgefist, it is the exception to the rule

As long as you cast 2 Shivs on the opener, 1 Shiv between pillars and 1 Shiv on every pillar, then you're good!

You want to use Shiv as your first GCD on the pillar, so you get full value out of the 9s of Shiv.

Here is an analysis I did for someone else, maybe you can use some tips from it:
#assassination message

[quasi grotto]

Okay cool, also have question about trinkets. Would you recommend ditching IQD for shriek trink

[pure moth]

Ill remember these tips if i find a guild!

[limber lion]

The best trinkets for Sludge are Dreadfire and Memory. You can sync them for every pillar. The Shriekwing trinket is actually very risky, because it can pull you towards the boss and break your chain.

I would just run IQD, it's a very fine trinket to use.

Just use it on pull with cooldowns and on the 4th pillar with lust and cd's

[potent rune]

is hateful chain good on it?

[limber lion]

It's a good trinket altogether, but on-use trinkets are generally better on Sludgefist because they provide on-demand damage

[potent rune]

ty

i assume phial falls in the same camp?

as hateful chain

[limber lion]

Yep

But again, Phial and Chain are both very good trinkets for what they are worth. DFV/Memory combo does more, but they also require you to remember to press them. Having 2 on-use trinkets can be quite overwhelming when there's so much going on.

[potent rune]

does using one put the other on a 30sec cd?

[limber lion]

A 20s cd, yes.

[quasi grotto]

I also have memory actually I forgot, I shall switch to that tonight and see how it goes

[wary pawn]

thx for the time u take into helping people! will try this today on sludge

[pure moth]

Wouldn't one on use trinket be wasted though? ones always going to be outside of pillar

[limber lion]

No worries, I enjoy doing it. Good luck!

[limber lion]

No, Memory has a 2 minute cooldown meaning that you can only use it on 2 pillars.

By having 2 on-use trinkets with 2mins or less cooldown you can have 1 trinket for every pillar

By alternating them

Dreadfire on pull, memory on pillar 1, dreadfire on pillar 2, memory on pillar 3, dreadfire on pillar 4

[pure moth]

Oh oops I've had it in my bags. Never ran it though since it didn't sim well.

[limber lion]

You don't want to use on-use trinkets on Sludge outside of the pillar windows.

[potent rune]

does raidbots have a sim for sludge pillars?

[pure moth]

Gotcha

[limber lion]

Unfortunately not. It would be quite hard to create a simulation profile for Sludgefist.

[fallen fable]

Is there some Sin m+ streamer i can watch?

[potent rune]

ah gotcha ty

[limber lion]

Ryfie is the #1 ranked Assassination rogue player, you can follow his stream.