assassination

[balmy condor]

all sin lego's should be crit haste tbh

but honestly 1 stat on 1 item won't matter for shit

[plain thistle]

ohhh sorry, I thought he was talking about status in general

not for the legendary

[stoic needle]

Yeah it's not like haste is 0 value in m+ so crit haste is fine

[worldly yarrow]

Heya M Sludge, which pillar to Vendetta on? Pull, 2, 4?

[stoic needle]

Yrs

[worldly yarrow]

ty

[alpine latch]

What WA pack do you guys use? Or did you build your own?

[balmy condor]

I use my own

[alpine latch]

Yeah, just not sure how much time I want to spend getting it right 😦

I have used the Luxthos ones in the past, but I always feel like things are missing.

[balmy condor]

luxthos is fine

[thin oyster]

Hey guys

Is Necro decent if I want to off spec?

[frail fossil]

yes

it's very good

[thin oyster]

I like both Outlaw and Assassination so it would be nice if there's a middle ground between them

[frail fossil]

yeah u can play necro

and do fine

[thin oyster]

Nice, thank you

[echo estuary]

is there a WA version of the pandemic glow?

[bleak sky]

I might just have dumbed out last week but

can you not immune huntsman's spear on P3?

[balmy condor]

not sure what you mean

[echo estuary]

I just have the plater version

[balmy condor]

you cannot, no

[thorny pond]

Some packs have a glow in them for pandemic windows yes

[bleak sky]

ty whispyr

[thorny pond]

Just the eruptions and puddles can be cloaked off

[echo estuary]

I need to try and find that lol

[thorny pond]

You can build your own if you like

[bleak sky]

Yeah those I always try to immune but the spear killed me (and my parses) last time

Sadge

[gloomy rose]

any rotation changes with zoldyck instead of doomblade or does it play the same?

[balmy condor]

same

[gloomy rose]

thx

[compact plover]

I started SL late, have a doomblade maxed. I'm planning to dump the rest of my soul ash into zoldyck. Is dashing worth crafting at all? Should I just wait for 9.1?

[stoic needle]

If you have doomblade probably not

Dashing is sightly better for cleave

But probably not 5150 soul ash better

Ya feel me

[compact plover]

yeah zoldyck seems like a more useful 2nd

[stoic needle]

For sure

[tender crown]

which slot for zoldyck

[balmy condor]

leg

[tender crown]

ty

[toxic quail]

I just killed M SLG. Going in to Sire now. Whats a good way to sim for him? So I can do some research tonight after raid.

[stoic needle]

patchwerk

[silent fossil]

neat. ep/vigor sims like 8 dps lower than blind/deeper

[toxic quail]

okay bet, cause ive seen yall say plenty times our dmg only matters in p3

thank you

[stoic needle]

we do really good damage in p2

[exotic rose]

Hey guys, does Serrated Bones Spikes counts as a bleed for Doomblade legendary?

[old depot]

got pulled into my first Mythic Council of Blood, tips please?!

got 5m before my denute

*debut

[balmy condor]

yes

[balmy condor]

don't die

[slow wadi]

yeah just pay attention to dark recital

[old depot]

do i multi dot the bosses?

or just focus on the current one

[neat pulsar]

you can SBS the 3 bosses after your opening if you are necro

[old depot]

im venthyr

[balmy condor]

you dot up to 5 bleeds

but usually the 5th is super hard

cause the other boss is far away

so just dot the boss you're hitting + the boss next to it

[old depot]

ok

[silent fossil]

swap to necro lastnight and get the conduit in one try https://i.imgur.com/GAyR7AY.png

[balmy condor]

hype

[plain thistle]

isnt sudden fractures ilvl upgrade almost nothing?

[balmy condor]

so is every other ilvl upgrade

[tender crown]

is elehtium teardrop good for tower?

[exotic rose]

Hey guys, another quick question, when running MA, why the sims suggest to vendetta + shiv + vanish + multilate + envenom + multilate making only 1 envenom on the crit window instead of getting 5 cp to then vanish + envenom + mutilate + envenom?

[balmy condor]

because it doesn't matter

[exotic rose]

I see. I thought double envenom would be more damage.

[balmy condor]

the extra cp you get makes up for the extra damage from the envenom

[exotic rose]

gotcha, thanks! 👍

[balmy condor]

np

[tropic echo]

is it normal to gray parse huntsman if barghast is being tanked separately 24/7

[balmy condor]

no

[tropic echo]

tf am i doing wrong suddenly then

[balmy condor]

[alpine latch]

Zoldycks on pants, yeah?

[balmy condor]

yes

[tropic echo]

oh wait im dumb i didnt gray huntsman

blue

[balmy condor]

blue is probably fine

[tropic echo]

still 52 bad 😦

probably because doomblade

[cunning needle]

blue is okay

[tropic echo]

seems like a terrible fight for it

[cunning needle]

still means youre above average

[balmy condor]

doomblade is our best legendary on 2 targets

just btw

[tropic echo]

better than zoldyck on huntsman? where there are constantly targets sitting under 30%? lol

[balmy condor]

oh boy

this again

okay

[cunning needle]

[balmy condor]

would you rather have 3 execute phases of 30 seconds, or 1 execute phase of 1:30

[tropic echo]

the latter

[balmy condor]

the correct answer is "it doesn't matter because you're still in execute for 1:30 in both situations"

so now

would you rather have 3 execute phases on the dogs, or 1 execute big single target execute phase, of the same length

[tropic echo]

but you're getting execute phases on the dogs + hunts + 2x dmg on hunts while he's in execute

[balmy condor]

it's still the same time regardless

it's not the amount of execute phases

its the time spent during them

120 mobs that live 3 seconds, and 1 mob that lives 360 seconds

is the same time spent in execute

[slender urchin]

Finally starting Denathrius prog...I see the top logs run AOEish talents

[kind talon]

can i feint cleansing pain or echoes

[slender urchin]

Is this just padding or is this recommended

[balmy condor]

CT is recommended

HB is not

[kind talon]

run CT

[balmy condor]

yes

[slender urchin]

Cool, thanks 🙂

[kind talon]

❤️

should i feint or save fleshcraft?

[balmy condor]

you can feint

[slender urchin]

What about Elaborate vs Blindside ofr den?

[balmy condor]

blindside for prog 100%

[kind talon]

should i fleshcraft prepull?

[slender urchin]

Roger that

[balmy condor]

no reason not to

[kind talon]

alr

❤️

[balmy condor]

[strange python]

[slender urchin]

What does CT opener look like?

[balmy condor]

the same

you don't CT during shiv

[slender urchin]

So it wont go up until after your first shiv window?

[balmy condor]

yeh

[slender urchin]

thanks friendo

[balmy condor]

np

[crystal maple]

Zoldyck for mythic sire if P1/P2 dps not an issue?

[balmy condor]

yeah that's fine

zold p3 damage is pretty big

[gloomy knoll]

ct > poison bomb also

pb is trap on denny

[crystal maple]

Tyvm

[kind talon]

holy shit

assa

is unethical on sire

[gloomy knoll]

que

[kind talon]

higher boss damage

than aff locks and spriests

never in my life

[gloomy knoll]

gwookey i'm unethical now

[kind talon]

letsgoooooooo

i tried to shadowstep gloomveil

and jumped off

it was a wipe anyways tho lmfaoooo

[hollow escarp]

didn't knew this was an issue

[balmy condor]

yeah that's a known problem

glad to see it fixed

[mystic osprey]

Was it correct in sims?

[balmy condor]

yeh

[cerulean nest]

what soulbind do you take for m+? been seeing some vids saying theotar for double potency

[balmy condor]

theotar double potency is bugged

troll as fuck

either wasteland or double nadjia

[cerulean nest]

how so?

[cerulean nest]

you mean double potency nadija? or duelist

[balmy condor]

double potency

double potency theotar pulls you out of stealth constantly

because of the shield

[cerulean nest]

oh yuck

[sacred thicket]

what lego do people use if any thing different on multi target raid bosses

[balmy condor]

zold

[sacred thicket]

cool thx.

[stoic needle]

[kind talon]

do u think they notice the boss damage?

(just sire)

[cinder nymph]

yes, that’s why you are there

[kind talon]

proggers

[lost cloak]

Can I use pandemic to refresh a 5 cp rupture indefinitely?

[balmy condor]

weird way to phrase that

but you won't ever drop rupture if you use pandemic timers properly, yes

the goal is 100% uptime on snd/rup/gar

[lost cloak]

Okay, I was worried I was losing dps by always refreshing rupture before it fell off

(under 7 sec)

[balmy condor]

no, up to 30% of the duration of the newly applied dot transfers over

so as long as you're not overwriting empowered dots, you're good to refresh within that 30% window

[lost cloak]

right ok just wanted to make sure, thanks

[balmy condor]

np

[lost cloak]

Another one - NF sepsis ambush is worse than just casting mutilate again due to seal fate right?

[balmy condor]

it's a wash for the most part

ambush/mut differences are super super minimal, they don't show up often

mut from vanish is optimal, but sepsis/opener is a little questionable

they have ups and downs

when in doubt, just mutilate

safe bet that it'll be better

[lost cloak]

that's been the motto so far lol

[balmy condor]

the difference from opener/sepsis is super super minimal

we're talking like 2 dps

[low girder]

it's easier to just tell people to not outside of blindside so that's what we settle on 😄

[balmy condor]

yeah

[dense axle]

is shadowgrasp totem trinket a sim trap? It sims second best for us

[low girder]

nope, it's good. it's hasted.

[dense axle]

oh sick

[balmy condor]

it's very good

sim trap is a no no word btw

we don't like that

[low girder]

as long as you're aware of the 50 yd range and don't pop it at a weird time it's very strong

[hollow escarp]

I've asked this before

[dense axle]

just got one in my vault

[hollow escarp]

when people asked this question

[dense axle]

226

[hollow escarp]

did some public wow figure said that this trinket is a sim trap?

I see so many people asking that

[dense axle]

to me "sim trap" = not performing nearly as well IRL as it does in sims

aka poorly simmed

[low girder]

probably not, it's just a thing people catch on to

[hollow escarp]

yeah, but specifically for this trinket

[low girder]

IQD had the same problem, and i was guilty of it

[dense axle]

I had an older version that seemed to do very little dmg

doyou need to stay within 50 yds of the trinket for it to work?

[low girder]

you don't, the totem does

[dense axle]

ah

so if you have movement heavy fight it might not be best

[hollow escarp]

50 yards is a lot for most fights anyway

[dense axle]

donny is what we progin

so might become an issue

[low girder]

yeah the only one i can really think of is popping it at a bad time on sire

in p2 specifically

i think you'll basically always be in range in p3

[dense axle]

but 15s is not a long time really

[low girder]

yep

[dense axle]

on that one P2 cabalist set youre over for a while

during massacre, cresendo, etc

[balmy condor]

simtrap has the connotation that the sim is wrong in some way, versus someone mis-interpreting the sim. There's been a lot of mistrust in sims lately for whatever reason, so calling things simtraps just don't help that

everything sims accurately

[low girder]

it'll swap to your target if the thing it's hitting dies, too

[dense axle]

yeah, so I wonder if I can get more uses during P1 with adds dying

[low girder]

possible. i don't actually have one, this is all secondhand

[stoic needle]

i think it swaps when you swap regardless of if it dies or not

[low girder]

i don't think it actually just targetswaps with you

i could be wrong

[dense axle]

I vaguely recall it swapping when the target dies

when I had one back in the start of 9.0

[stoic needle]

oxi who has one says that it target swaps with you

hmm

i have one in my bank

i'll try it out after raid

[low girder]

i don't, let me know

i could have but we didn't know it was hasted at the time

so i took something else

[hollow escarp]

I have on my hunter but bell sims better than it

low ilvl totem btw

[balmy condor]

I haven't used it, but I think it swaps on death

from what I've heard

[upbeat needle]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[kind talon]

after sire phases

do the dots i had on remornia finish their damage

or do they disappear

[balmy condor]

they disappear

p2-p3 transition functions like remoria dying for all realistic purposes

[kind talon]

alr ty

[stoic needle]

sbs stays up tho

[balmy condor]

yeh sbs is mega jank

[civic knot]

are there any vods for a sire kill using EP/Vigor/CT talent?

cant seem to get the timing for CT on ads while keeping uptime on sire

[shy dust]

why EP

[civic knot]

cause thats what most top 100 parses got going on

[balmy condor]

I mean

isn't EP vig CT

just m+

[shy dust]

P3 burn

matters a lot though

[civic knot]

so what i shoudl go BS/DS/CT

[kind talon]

bs ds ct

v good

yep

[hazy crater]

IQD doesn't

[marsh ridge]

Why does bloodmallet list hateful chain so high? Does it proc off poisons/bleeds?

[balmy condor]

it's hasted

it's very good

[full sail]

Whats our standard talents for a st raid boss

[balmy condor]

also just sim yourself

[echo estuary]

so is shadowgrasp better or worse than dreadfire at 220 ilvl?

I know what sims say but its stationary

so i unno

[stoic needle]

it has a 50 yard range

[echo estuary]

oh shit realy?

[stoic needle]

you aren't moving 50 yards in any raid boss or m+ pull

except going through the mirror on sire

[echo estuary]

so I should actually invest in that trink huh?

[stoic needle]

if you're venthyr iqd is probably a better choice

[echo estuary]

if I get one

got 3 good trinks but no iqd

phial dread and shadow

all 220

rogues been getting pretty lucky with gear being only like 3 days played at 60

[stoic needle]

@low girder i just tested the totem it swaps targets as you do

[low girder]

oh true, kk

good to know

[gusty mirage]

I covered this 2 weeks ago

no one listens to me sigh

chadgrasp totem underrated

[glacial bough]

do we use crippling, wound, or mind numbing in m+? does it change per dungeon?

[balmy condor]

numbing usually

but if your tank kites a lot, go crippling

wound is hard trolling

wound is a deadly poison

[glacial bough]

so wound only

is what ur saying

[stoic needle]

[gusty mirage]

deadly poison

pls

[glacial bough]

so no poisons

is bis

[gusty mirage]

yes

[glacial bough]

got u yall the best

[stoic needle]

infact you should do m+ with a sword

[glacial bough]

or as sub KEKW

rogue jokes

[stoic needle]

outlaw can do it, why not assassination?

[low girder]

joking about sub

you'll all learn

in 9.1

[gusty mirage]

FoK builder

kek

[stoic needle]

i wonder if deathspike will be good for sub too

[low girder]

i doubt it

[gusty mirage]

nah venthyr will probably still be bis cov for sub

[low girder]

storm is mega good

[shy dust]

It won’t be

[gusty mirage]

its ridiculously strong for sub

[shy dust]

Mostly necause

Subs cleave is shit

It’s fine at large aoe

You wouldn’t play necro as sub

[stoic needle]

yeah but deathspike could make it less shit

[shy dust]

Why would you focus

[stoic needle]

[gusty mirage]

idk if it does enough cleave to supplement that weakness

[shy dust]

On improving your insane weakness

Instead of buffing your strengths

Oh wtf this isn’t off topic

[stoic needle]

[glacial bough]

yea i will have to contact a mod

[gusty mirage]

osh is present everywhere

koffing might actually cut you

[stoic needle]

funny that contacting a mod is the quickest way to get banned on RH

[low girder]

it's true

[whole mason]

thanks

[echo geyser]

when u play deeper strat, is it worth to use envenom at 4cp if shiv is about to fall off?

2nd question : If u have blindside proc inside of MA(talent) window is Ambush or Mutilate higher prio?

[low girder]

1. no 2) ambush, mostly to get rid of proc waste possibility

[echo geyser]

follow up question for #2, do u always muti > envenom > muti regardless of crit rng inside MA window?

or would u go muti muti envenom

if no crit

[low girder]

either one, you'll only get one envenom in the window with deeper so whatever is fine

[echo geyser]

ah sorry i meant in the shiv > vanish window

still same?

[low girder]

ye

[echo geyser]

ok ty

[storm nymph]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[covert stratus]

starting prog on sire next week. is it worth running CT? also, doomblade or zold?

reason being doomblade might help us push to the later phases then I might switch to zold when we get there consistently

also, anything I can cheese with clos / evasion?

[hazy crater]

I think optimally you cloak blood price 1 and 3 in P3

since it works on nothing else there

I would probably run CT yeah, legendary question is tricky and probably doesnt really matter much

[covert stratus]

we use CT on ST when not in shiv window correct?

[hazy crater]

yeah

[covert stratus]

cool tyvm 🙂

[hazy crater]

and if you are about to leave boss range

[covert stratus]

might switch to venth for this one, am necro atm

[hazy crater]

probably not worth it tbh

unless you just want to change anyway

[covert stratus]

fair enough.thanks again

[safe barn]

which race you guys are in your rogues

[winter gale]

Whats the current state of rogues for 9.1 ? Is there any post or article where I could read something about that?

[limber lion]

BE personally, but doesn't really matter

[limber lion]

Not really. It's still too early to say, but it's looking good especially for Sub Rogues. But again, anything can change so speculating is wasted energy.

[balmy condor]

State of rogues for 2 months into the future

Pog

[safe barn]

just want to know if we got any forsaken boys

[balmy condor]

I’m be as well

[exotic rose]

Hey guys, does MA talent affect trinkets?

[low girder]

nope

[balmy condor]

I wish upon a star

But it turns out the star was just a pin

So it doesn’t work like that sadly

[echo geyser]

does trinket and pots work with MA talent?

or only vendetta?

[torn atlas]

Orc rogue is best rogue

[limber lion]

[balmy condor]

Cev

Imma jump

[limber lion]

I'll be right behind you

[balmy condor]

[mossy crown]

oh dear, so I'm currently sat at crit: 30%, haste: 16%, mastery: 23%, vers: 12%. Is that a concern for most?

[ornate lake]

You gotta work with what u get. Sim your pieces to see what is biggest upgrade.

[balmy condor]

3 in a row

[subtle tundra]

do i say the 34 thing

[balmy condor]

One more pinned answer and we get bingo boys

[low girder]

!bis

there

bingo?

[wary ice]

Bingo is 5 in a row

[balmy condor]

Yeah but it’s a free square

[ornate lake]

Just wait till 9.1 launches and all these questions are asked again 1000 times.

[wary ice]

Ah true true

Bro the only difference is the cadence

[low girder]

still better than launch sub

or god forbid, beta sub

[balmy condor]

8.3 sin

Still scars me

[low girder]

rip swamp

[vestal wren]

wdym, 8.3 was the best patch in wow history

[night prawn]

Hey dudes, serious question(s).

I saw this guide on WoWhead where you could do Twisting Corridors to get any legendary effect if you got the right tower. So obviously I am trying to get Doomblade but I've now done Mort'regar SIX times without getting it at layer 3. Am I doing something wrong? Has this been fixed? Anyone actually done this before?

[vestal wren]

you need to do layer 3 or higher

[wheat needle]

Hi, is anyone play Kyrian here ?

[night prawn]

I did a layer 3

[balmy condor]

Not really

[night prawn]

Is it RNG drops?

[vestal wren]

kyrian was the best covenant early, but hasn't been since 30 renown was unlocked

[balmy condor]

It’s not 100%

[night prawn]

Or meant to be guaranteed?

[balmy condor]

But it’s fairly high

[night prawn]

Oh

[balmy condor]

It’s probably 90%

[vestal wren]

6 times full layer 3 run does not sound like it shouldn't opt you the legendary

[wheat needle]

I'm thinking about swapping from Kyrian to Venthyr but since I've unlocked all my buildings lvl 3, I'm reluctant to swap
If I swap, do I keep anima achievements (when you get more animas by bosses etc...) Do you have any advices to up renown quickly ?

[night prawn]

Well that what I was thinking, I've checked my bank to make sure I'm not being an idiot, I haven't deleted it by accident and I definitely dont have it

So I dont know

[restive dawn]

You keep the increased anima drops from achievements when you swap.

[night prawn]

I'll keep trying I guess

[balmy condor]

Renown is super fast, shouldn’t worry about that, just play normally, do your lfr/callings, run some keys/pvp and you’ll get there in a couple days tops

The buildings will be level 1

But they don’t really provide anything of value outside of the tp to Oriobos

[vestal wren]

you lose building progress, troups and stuff like titles

[balmy condor]

Yeh

[wheat needle]

Thanks for advices 🙂

[vestal wren]

btw. if you ever switch back to kyrian you gain the benefits back

they are just specicif to each covenant

[north basin]

Myth dena 40% till 0%, with all movement and shit, whats the difference between doom and zoldyk? And CT vs P.Bomb, in % roughly estimate? Anyone have some even approx answer?)

[limber lion]

My boy, you can just sim it yourself. PB is worse, but loses value when the boss moves. Zoldyck is obviously better than Doomblade.

With Zoldyck the difference between CT/PB is smaller.

[balmy condor]

No sim, only feelcraft number

[final star]

I read top log I do what top log say

[north basin]

How do i sim 40% to 0% with movement and take into consideration 30% to 0% execute range?

[balmy condor]

Sim execute patchwerk

[north basin]

But what about these 10% hp without execute range?

[balmy condor]

You wanted an approximation right

[north basin]

))))

[balmy condor]

Trying to sim an actual specific raid fight is pretty stupid

It’s hours of work, and the apl doesn’t support any of it, and even then you’re not going to be accurate

[north basin]

I just dont know how to build custom sim), thats why asking

[balmy condor]

So you just sim something close enough

[north basin]

Ok

[balmy condor]

It’s not worth making a custom sim

Execute patchwerk is close enough

[north basin]

Gotcha

Its just psychological relief to know this shit 0.001% better than other, peace of mind kinda thing

[limber lion]

You sim, look at the results and then make your decisions based on the sim

If you see that PB and CT sim very similarly, it's probably a safe bet taking CT.

It's not like you're forced to take the #1 sim result whenever you sim.

It's to give you an idea on how much of a loss/gain something is.

[north basin]

I know they are pretty close on dena myth.

How close thats the question)

[limber lion]

And the answer to that lies in the sim, especially if you're talking about some 0.0001% shenanigans

Which doesn't matter whatsoever in the end because of dps margins

[north basin]

I know i can do just fine with both options, just some geeky thing here

Best option is just learn the coding stuff and make fight based sims myself))

[limber lion]

Tbh the best option would be to just not worry about it too much

[north basin]

Or this yes.

[balmy condor]

It’s literally just not worth it

[limber lion]

There's way too many variables in the game to give a shit about 20 dps

[balmy condor]

If it were worth it, it would’ve been done

[north basin]

But if something bothering me its bothering, although it have nothing to do with objective reality and boss)

I somewhat agree with this statement about not worth it.. but cant help myself not to be bothered sometimes)

[austere swallow]

[balmy condor]

Then sim an execute patchwerk and run zold

[balmy condor]

[vestal wren]

problem with fight scripts is that they always fall short on fights that need special cd handling

also i don't think that anyone would switch gear and talents every boss/affix/m+ group/m+ route constellation

[limber lion]

The thing is that us humans are not machines and we are not perfect. If a tank moves the boss away from your attack range for 2s, it's a bigger dps loss than choosing an option that is 13 dps more.

[north basin]

Totally agree, like i said my concerns have nothing to do with reality, just pure numbers for sake of numbers

[final star]

[limber lion]

Yeah, even the numbers tend to fluctuate quite a bit. The sims are not perfect, the game has millions of variables so every single pull is different etc.

But if it gives you peace of mind, then go for it buddy.

[compact pumice]

@north basin
For a specific fights you can just check people's logs. From previous discussion here it seems like Doomblade will do slightly more damage over the whole of P3 since you will have a legendary for the first vendetta+BL during the phase. Zoldyck almost catches up in the end due to the legendary effect combined with not having 100% uptime where dots will do a bigger % of your damage.

An analysis like that is usually enough for a fight. Simming is just one tool in your toolkit, IMO.

[exotic plume]

If you see CT will run out during shiv window do you first refresh it or just shiv on cd and refresh after?

[compact pumice]

If you have time to CT before the shiv window without affecting your ability to use shiv with 4+ combo points then you can do that. But if it comes down to going into Shiv with 0 CP and a CT versus 6 CP and no CT then 6 CP would be better, I'm pretty sure.

[north basin]

What about using CT on solo target vs not using CT at all? Whats better

[vestal wren]

using it

[north basin]

Ok

[gloomy rose]

can someone explain a bit how come CT is worth on ST? I simmed it and I trust what people here are saying, but I would expect that the increased chance to poison buff from envenom + potential doomblade envenom damage boost would keep it ahead, is the buff downtime offset by the CT damage enough for it to be worth?

[limber lion]

CT is simply just more damage than Envenom outside of Shiv windows, it's quite simple.

During Shiv windows Envenom pulls ahead

But outside of Shiv windows, CT wins.

Quite a few people who play Assa actively hate the fact that CT does more damage than Envenom in single target, but it is what it is.

You obviously don't talent into it in ST encounters, PB is better in ST.

[gloomy rose]

alright, what confused me was that my ingame damage of CT and Envenom was rather close by itself with Envenom also adding the poison chance buff, if it still pulls ahead it makes sense, thanks!

I actually tried to sim it for my character (doomblade, nowhere near top gear) and on ST patchwerk with CT talented I lost 10 dps by not using CT at all

on the other hand denathrius (which is discussed here quite a lot) moves a lot and CT can tick while you are doing smth else, so it's probably still worth, I just tried it because of the message that CT is worth using when you have it over not, because maintaining CT on top of the other bleeds annoys the hell out of me

[compact pumice]

Just don't focus so much on maintaining it. If you don't have CT up or if CT is in pandemic window then use CP on CT, else Envenom, as long as you're not pooling for shiv or whatever then just don't use CT for a while. The only dots that actually matter in ST is Garrote and Rupture

[keen tree]

Guys I have Zoldyck Rank 4 (plus MA rank 3 and Celerity rank 1 but i really only play Assassination).. is it still worth making Doomblade or should i just save soul ash for 9.1 now? I don't raid but i MIGHT try to pug one in the future i guess. Or is there some other lego i should make?

[stoic needle]

I'm almost positive that it's a bigger loss than that

[gloomy rose]

it's the first time I made customized sim, so I may have made a mistake somewhere, but it looks legit to me

[stoic needle]

Post the sim

[gloomy rose]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/p3yAM6uaRr9T25Hw594ubt

[low girder]

idk if it's a weird quirk with the necro APL, or a gear thing, or what, but when i do the same thing as venthyr i lose 40 dps doing the exact same thing

[stoic needle]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6NoriLWMVFZPsT1vG5Cgd4

yeah idk

i guess you're right

i stand corrected

it doesn't make much sense to me xd

why do we ever use PB then

[gloomy rose]

maybe its because necrolord has additional bleed from SbS and it impacts the Envenom damage? idk, feelcrafting here really

[low girder]

much more likely to be a haste thing

than that

[compact pumice]

PB doing so little that not even taking anything in that row is barely a DPS increase

[red bloom]

you dont like to gamble for a chance of damage proc? fun and engaging

[low girder]

this is taking CT and using it vs not using it, PB is still a decent gain lol

[keen tree]

best place for doomblade is hands right?

[stoic needle]

yes

[compact pumice]

People are simming PB to be a very minor gain to CT in ST though

[low girder]

depends on your definition of minor i suppose

it's still over 100 for me

and i'm venthyr

that gap closes harder if you're not playing doomblade

[stoic needle]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pRdwpznJPCRzosmpngE7XN

its literally 1 dps for me

[keen tree]

are you guys discussing CT vs poison bomb on ST?

[low girder]

@stoic needle

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/k4wUUw1DJhXnVJ9JkuhZAJ

double check to make sure i didn't fuck that up

seems like i did that right

[compact pumice]

Some are, but mostly it's taking the CT talent and not using it compared to using it vs a Single Target right now.

[chilly mist]

What is good overall dps in m+ with itemlevel >220?

[compact pumice]

Depends on dungeon and route and group comp

[chilly mist]

Okay then talk about Spires with tyrannical

This week

[mighty owl]

Depends on route and group comp

[keen tree]

I've asked this question and never got a straight answer. I'm finally starting to come to terms with the fact that there isn't one. Personally at 218 ilvll im doing between 4.5 and 5.2 depending on 'stuff' - i mostly pug.

[mighty owl]

There are so many factors for overall dps in a dungeon, you can’t say your dps in a vacuum and say if it’s good or bad

Just work on playing the spec right

[stoic needle]

It looks good to me

[chilly mist]

I know that this fluctuates a lot, but I would like to compare values

[low girder]

yeah idk wtf is going on then, gonna get whispyr to look at it

[compact pumice]

Dudes, there's not really a good answer to that question. And Good is subjective.
If you beat the mage on overall DPS you are either doing really well or the mage is terrible. So if you think you are doing really well then go with that answer 😛

[stoic needle]

Don't worry about it tbh, timing keys is not really about dps

It's about not dying

Once you go a whole key without dying or messing up mechanics you can start worrying about your dps

[keen tree]

When you play with either a pug or people you know who aren't really loyal to you then DPS DONE suddenly becomes important (for all the wrong reasons).

I think also it depends on key level.. high level key guys probably appreciate that dps done doesn't matter but in the 12-15 range.. it matters.

[stoic needle]

Yeah no

It still doesn't matter

All that matters is whether you time the key or not

[keen tree]

i did qualify 'it matters' with a 'for all the wrong reasons'.

[compact pumice]

I mean lets be clear here, as a rogue you can pretty much keep up with the other DPS very well while still helping out a lot with tricks and kicks and stuns (and gouges). So if the other DPS are ahead of you that means that the casters are getting very favourable pulls (like the tank pulling double pulls on their CDs) or you are not playing as well as you could.

[gloomy rose]

tbf dps also matters, because some mechanics get harder to deal with overtime and you can sort of damage through it, good example is stradama

[compact pumice]

If the route is very AOE heavy at times then you can be fine being behind on overall DPS.

[keen tree]

@stoic needle I can give you a scenario i have faced. You spend a billion hours trying to get in to a group. You finally get one and time the key. You want to join the same group (pug) for the next key so you dont have to wait another billion hours for a key. I think in the 12-15 key range they look at your dps a lot to decide whether they keep you.. it's wrong but it happens.

[stoic needle]

The solution is to make your own group

[keen tree]

i knew you were going to say that

[stoic needle]

So you don't have to wait at all

[compact pumice]

Start your own keys ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[keen tree]

but at some point when your key gets depleted 4 times in a row its a bit annoying / soul destroying 🙂 but yes you are right.

[stoic needle]

Idk what else to say man it's the truth

[keen tree]

you are definitely right 🙂 I realise that.

[compact pumice]

That means you should be way more selective in your team members

[neat tartan]

Hi guys, another question came to mind. What will happen to our current 220 12/12 and 226 from vault going to happen in 9.1? Are they going to be obsolete or the rank limit will increase?

[stoic needle]

Yeh it really does suck, that's why you add the good people you play with so you don't have to pug anymore

[stoic needle]

No one knows yet

[keen tree]

BTW - even if you push your own key - you still have to wait a billion hours for the tank to arrive 🙂 And then at the end of the run you can face the same scenario again.

[neat tartan]

I see.. Okay thx 🙏🏻

[keen tree]

I'm not arguing with you btw - just sharing experience. The other prob i had was that 'good' ppl wouldn't add me back when my dps was lower than theirs.

i realise they are not really good ppl 🙂

[compact pumice]

The thing about 12-15 keys is that timing it pretty much comes down to how experienced the team members are. If they are like average in the sense that they know what to do, average dps, average HPS, average tanking route and tank IQ, you are going to like +2 Chest it. It's just about minimizing the chance of having a Clown that wrecks the key.

[keen tree]

I spent too long being made to feel like that clown since my dps was a bit lower than others.. but i tend not to die and i tend to be ok on mechanics (ofc could always be better).

[stoic needle]

Yeah you aren't the clown

[keen tree]

❤️

[stoic needle]

It's the person dying and ass pulling extra packs trying to be a pumper that's actually the clown

[keen tree]

anyone else get shit for playing sin in dungeons? I mean i dont give af.. i'd rather leave the group than play another spec.. but ive noticed it happen a few times.

[stoic needle]

It happens rarely

Pugging my way to 1700 io it's happened less than 5 times

I get more compliments for my dps than trolls

[keen tree]

nice 🙂

[compact pumice]

Just by friends who want to be annoying if my DPS was bad one run (they don't complain about Outlaw since that's the baseline for them). TBH I have done both insanely well and insanely bad as Assa. I tend not to play Assa on higher keys though where I think the two specs would be closer in terms of damage.

[keen tree]

i'm having such a fun time playing sin in dungeons. I find it hard to put my finger on why but it's always been that way.

[compact pumice]

I just find it a bit harder to stay alive, interrupt shit and dodge shit as Assa so I don't wanna have to deal with that in higher keys

[limber lion]

Usually I get compliments for how well I did or people wanting to play more. It's just that there's the stigma that assassination is an awful m+ spec because it's not Outlaw and people assume the worst. It's also because Assassination is a pretty rare spec to see in M+.

[compact pumice]

Assa is more fun though since it's engaging even during easy packs for me

[keen tree]

this is true. my Outlaw dmg is SO far behind my Sin dmg though.. even when i had better gear.. it's never therefore appealed to me. The playstyle is also not my cup of tea tbh.

[limber lion]

You can do like 7k as assa and people will be surprised by your dps.

[stoic needle]

Just wait until they see deathspike sin next tier

[keen tree]

what's that?

[stoic needle]

The new necrolord legendary

[keen tree]

im venth - do i need to think about switching? 🙂

[stoic needle]

That's a 5% dps increase over zoldyck

It's going to be insane

[keen tree]

ahh balls

[stoic needle]

It fires two extra bone spikes every use and gives you two extra charges

[keen tree]

i love being a vamp boi but if the dps is more as necro i'll have to change. I guess it's better to wait and see for now though?

[stoic needle]

Yeah definitely better to wait and see

[compact pumice]

I mean a dungeon such as Mists I think Assa would be insane on. The packs all live long enough to fit Assa damage profile pretty well, not that many hard to dodge abilities where the increased melee range is a game changer.

First boss is insane for Assa

[stoic needle]

I did like 7.5k last mists key I ran

Spires is really good for sin too

And DoS

It's probably better damage on theater of pain too because it's got better 2-3 target cleave

[compact pumice]

I think you can pump 8+k DPS on mists

Beat some mages

Yeah ToP, esp tyrannical, is Assa heaven

[keen tree]

i'd love to be able to do that or even close to it. I think i managed 5.2k with 218 gear on a 14 or 15 in a pug but i know i have a LONG way to go to optimise my rotation.

[young herald]

heavy breathing

[winter vapor]

stat weights any good for seeing if crt/haste enchants or gems can be changed or is it just better doing a full sim

[stoic needle]

Doing a lot of dps as sin is literally just using garotte on cd, dotting everything, and not dying

[stoic needle]

You're always better doing a full sim

[dim tide]

@keen tree https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/775446825678274592/817795819922915349/unknown.png :)

[winter vapor]

@stoic needle but im lazy! fiiiiiine

(ty)

[limber lion]

Top Gear is always the answer.

[dim tide]

Most reactions from ppl in dungeons are positive/supprise aboout dmg from assa

[stoic needle]

Sometimes you get that one asshole from tichondrius who thinks he knows rogue better than you

And that you can't do any damage unless you're outlaw

But most people are chill about it

[keen tree]

haha 🙂 yah you are right most ppl are chill

[fallen arch]

Yes

But I’ve been denied my fair share of pugs because I was not outlaw

Until you get into a pug and smash an outlaw so they can see

[limber lion]

I've been denied my fair share of pugs because I was a rogue.

[wind dune]

I agree aswell as someones thats 1945 io i get alot more praise than comments about the sepc

[keen tree]

So annoying when that happens

[wind dune]

spec*

[compact pumice]

I mean if they aren't chill until maybe after the run (and they have some kind of proof) then they are usually not chill people overall so you should take what they say with a huge scoop of salt anyway.

[fallen arch]

This too

[compact pumice]

[keen tree]

hahahah

[dim tide]

And i think there are so few of us that ppl forget about sap , shroud etc.

[fallen arch]

Well, outside of shroud u bring no utilty that lots of other specs can’t do

[keen tree]

I'm proud of myself!!! I used raidbots to figure out what missives are best for a legendary i do not yet have! Turns out boomers CAN learn new tricks 🙂

[dim tide]

15-30 min of looking for pug is standard atm, ppl with Rio around 1.1 k looking for Player with 1.5+ Rio to carry them....

[compact pumice]

Imagine Boomers using the internet without first asking how to do something. They're evolving...

[dim tide]

Eeee, Boomer is how old - 30+?

[young herald]

more like 45+ I think

[compact pumice]

Boomers are like 40+ at least

yeah 45+ seems reasonable

[keen tree]

Let's be clear - i did ask 45,000 times what stats i should put on my lego BEFORE figuring out how to do use raidbots a bit.. now GET OFF MY LAWN.

[compact pumice]

Nice

[limber lion]

Ask @gusty mirage the self-proclaimed boomer

[compact pumice]

Did you type it into Facebook first and just broadcast what question you're answering?

[keen tree]

nah Boomers are post world war 2 babies.. 1945-65 i guess? I'm Gen X which is i think 70-90 or something.

ps it's not lost on me that i just made a boomer comment in correcting you.

[young herald]

bet they type "hello google please find me the best stats for my legendary" into the google search field

[compact pumice]

Well, KS, Kick, Gouge, Cheat Death, Cloak of Shadows and Blind is a pretty good kit to help the run going smooth IMO.

[keen tree]

plus acrobatic strikes

[dim tide]

Too bad sometimes i think that blinded mob got prio target for other DPS in dungeons....

[keen tree]

I think darkness should be a rogue spell.

[compact pumice]

Also there's just so much aoe shit that breaks CC and people would rather do max DPS than live most of the time...

[dim tide]

We got darkess - it was smoke bomb....

[keen tree]

'was'

oh is that a sub talent? I'm not familiar with those.

[dim tide]

I think that was general rogue talent in WoD

[keen tree]

ah and they stole it from us.. bastards.

[fallen arch]

Scrap gouge off that list and you have a kit that still most other classes can do as well

I mean, I never would not take a rogue

But we all know these meta slaves that only get hard of mages, boomies and ele’s

[compact pumice]

I can't think of any that has all that or comparable. Unless you count any interrupt as as valuable as a 15sec kick.

Like neither mage, boomie nor ele brings all that, even though mages come close (they just fall short having a longer interrupt CD and no Stun). But they bring good AOE which can be a bit better for some strategies.

[fallen arch]

Talk about surprises, I pugged an Enhancement yesterday that did an outrageous ton of dps

[gloomy rose]

I feel like my biggest utility in M+ group is KS, there's quite a lot of trash mechanics that can't be interrupted but can be stunned and the short CD does a lot

[fallen arch]

And shroud dude, it saves invis pots 😜

[gloomy rose]

shroud is nice sometimes, but idk, the tank I usually go with generally has routes which either don't count on shroud or it doesn't fit in too well because of prides

[gusty mirage]

Who rung the boomer signal? I felt a disturbance in the knees

[north basin]

Any signs we will be invited more in 9.1?)) Mass deny just made me quit m+ pugging after km achiev and weekly chest)

[final star]

??????

must be cos ur io bad

[sturdy merlin]

[gusty mirage]

9.1 won’t change anything, there will still be 20-30 dps signing up for every key minimum

[final star]

people have a weak aura that puts highest rio at top

well, in highest to lowest

if you don't have that wa ur inting

til it's part of blizz UI

like who they gonna choose

the 1800 rogue

or the 1300 rogue

[gusty mirage]

You’re competing again dozens of people, plus in top of that it’s r.io score + ilvl. No point in taking someone who’s 221 ilvl at 1300 io when there’s going to inevitably be someone who’s like 1600 and 226 ilvl

[low girder]

Make your own key sometime. Watch how completely swamped you get in dps apps. That's every key. That's why declines happen. I constantly get declined for even 14s at 1350 io and 9/10M. That's just how the game is.

[exotic plume]

does someone have a macro for Shadowstep where I can also Mo my focus?

[gusty mirage]

Yep. I get declined from 14s and 15s still and I’m 225 equipped (226 in bags), 6/10M, and I have almost an 1800 rio score. It happens

[final star]

yup

there is 1000's more of you

just accept it

[solid venture]

I also get declined for 15s with 2060rio and 10/10m :))

Fun game

[steady owl]

But it could be they already have a rogue, that’s something I’ve thought of when I see other rogues apply to my keys, or maybe they think they need bl, boomy or a mage for their 14 key. There’s so many reasons. Don’t take it personal. They don’t know you they just look at your score

[gusty mirage]

I chalk it up to people thinking high IOs players will leave the moment something goes wrong tbh

[gloomy rose]

I think that for DPS it might be more that its melee than that its your rio / ilvl / class

[gaunt tree]

having a lust/hero and bres class is a thing too

[gusty mirage]

Also true, the days of triple melee are far behind us

[gaunt tree]

thats why i only do DGs with guildies nowadays

[final star]

the weak aura shows what classes they already have in keys

so just don't apply to groups that already have a rogue

[stoic needle]

I use premade group filter to filter out any group with a rogue

So I never even see them

[late badge]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[ebon notch]

can anyone link me their dungeon slice sim?

just for comparison

[thorny pond]

How is that going to help you? It comes down to covenant, ilvl, etc

[ebon notch]

because if there is a huge discrepancy then i can see i simmed something wrong

[thorny pond]

Just link your sim we can critique it

[ebon notch]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7UdJhzuvEz1yQdJoTkU6pw

[stoic needle]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3kc7Lg2gJ54aTaAgxTQWzH

[gusty mirage]

Chaos brand and mystic touch debuffs

[stoic needle]

not enough mastery there sir

[plain thistle]

DH tank and MW healer, done

dh tank, monk healer, warrior for buff, rogue (you) and shaman ench (totem)

done, dream team

[tawdry goblet]

hey guys, if I want to craft Doomblade for Sin PvP, which stats should I go for?

[gusty mirage]

I don’t hate it

[plain thistle]

shaman also has lust, amazing

[gusty mirage]

Haste vers

[plain thistle]

everything covered, everyone needs to be eng for bress tho

[gusty mirage]

He could force me to use drums as long as I get wind fury

[ebon notch]

the sims are telling me to have less mastery, is it gaining value on dslice?

[stoic needle]

Yes, mastery is about equal or better than haste in dungeon slice/aoe

Mastery is better for aoe damage, haste is better for st

[ebon notch]

i have 23% already, how much are you running

[stoic needle]

32%

I want more

[gusty mirage]

Yeah osh is addicted to mastery

And refuses to admit he has a problem

[stoic needle]

I just want that big d overall

[thorny pond]

https://tenor.com/view/chapelle-dave-tyrone-biggums-gif-12898292

[stoic needle]

I need another crit/mastery ring

[gusty mirage]

Y’all got some more of that mastery?

[stoic needle]

Vers actually becomes my worst stat when I sim for dslice

I have 8% vers

29% crit 32% mastery 17% haste

[gusty mirage]

Vers was better in bfa because of echoing blades. Kinda lost a bit of oomph now that fok kinda blows

So it makes sense

[stoic needle]

I'd like do get down to about 10% haste and put that value into the other stats

I don't like being so low vers because I feel like I take a lot of damage

[ebon notch]

i just dont have enough 226 or even 220 gear with these stats to build the setup i want

really annoying

[gusty mirage]

I don’t worry about secondaries anymore tbh. I’m liking the SL stat scaling. I follow what the robot tells me is my best set up

[ebon notch]

just been perma chasing crit/haste/vers for outlaw

[gusty mirage]

Feint 4head

And stack avoidance like a real m+ chad

[stoic needle]

I don't ever get avoidance gear

[gusty mirage]

I think I had something stupid like 13% avoidance at one point this tier

Third boss in sanguine tickled with feint

[ebon notch]

putting on your different sets mid dungeon in legion was so fun

straight up to like 20% avoidance

putting on the archimonde trinket to survive oneshots

[stoic needle]

Ive had high mastery since the beginning of the tier, at first I hated it but now I love it

[gusty mirage]

I’d feint the aoe and be at like 85% health with 1 orb, it as so satisfying

[stoic needle]

At one point I had almost 27% haste

But that was like 15 ilvl ago

[gusty mirage]

You’re a changed man with a new addiction

[stoic needle]

I've evolved

[spice spire]

Devolved more like

Mastery crit legendaries when

[stoic needle]

My first craft in 9.1 will be 235 crit/mastery deathspike

[thorny pond]

kek

[stoic needle]

Don't worry you'll all see the picture

[thorny pond]

Nobody here will doubt that

You're eerily close to being Daniel Radcliffe in a bathrobe crazy though. If you need help, we are here for you

[stoic needle]

I'm not crazy I just like mythic plus

[spice spire]

Like he said, we’re here for you.

[stoic needle]

You call me crazy

But whispyr has more mastery gear than me

[thorny pond]

Yea but Whispyr is a chad

[spice spire]

I got the huntsman neck last night, does that make me a degenerate like osh?

[stoic needle]

Wtf is this double standard

Whispyr is a chad but I'm a crackpot

[stoic needle]

It makes you a king

[thorny pond]

The difference between trashy and cool is wealth

[obtuse ruin]

no phial? 😮

[thorny pond]

poor people doing crack = trashy
Rich people doing crack = fun

[stoic needle]

I don't have a 226

[spice spire]

Whispyr poor af tho while osh swimming in that boosting gold

[stoic needle]

Decanter sims better

[spice spire]

Decanter

My mans actually only has 35k

[stoic needle]

I bought all the bases for my sub legendaries yesterday and a token

[spice spire]

Oh and he’s P2W

[stoic needle]

I'm only medium-time with the boosts though

[spice spire]

Virgin osh buys tokens while the Chad Whispyr makes everyone else buy his shit

[stoic needle]

That was with my boosting gold wdym

I haven't paid for wow since like January

[spice spire]

Ohhhh you bought a token for gold - not bought a token to make gold

I deadass haven’t paid for wow since like November thanks to the HOT referral stuff

I think I’m set until June?

[thorny pond]

Who do you know IRL that wants to play this dead game?

[spice spire]

• used to do 3 months at a time

Losers like me

[thorny pond]

jesus, I'm here because I've been here since late vanilla. The hell are zoomers doing getting into it now?

[stoic needle]

Doing like 1-2 push keys and then like 8 boosts a week gives me more than enough to cover my subscription and all of my raid consumables and gets me 10 keys for vault

And thousands and thousands of savory deviate delights

[spice spire]

I’m a boomer and I’m recruiting other boomers 🙂
I’ve also been a vanilla nerd. But started at AQ so I didn’t really get to raid vanilla while it was current tier

Not actually a boomer, but in the gaming world I am

[stoic needle]

I have ptsd from the classic scarab lord race

My guild farmed out three scarab lords

[spice spire]

LMAO

Yike

[stoic needle]

One of them quit, one of them turned out to be an abuser and the other one held one of our guild banks hostage to demand that the abuser be given a fair trial among the guild and be let back in

[thorny pond]

oh no

[stoic needle]

Classic was a mistake

[spice spire]

Ahh

So that explains why you’re off classic

[stoic needle]

Yeah the guild's dead

I was already pretty much sick of it

The drama was the nail in the coffin

And I'm not going back for tbc either

[spice spire]

That’s absolutely nonsense over a game.
My guild (current) just said see ya next tier lmao. And we still play games together, occasional magic the virgining - and they enjoy valorant and shit while I’m running mythic with another group

Part of the reason I like them so much - they’re pretty chill

[stoic needle]

Yeah I still talk to them and they're cool people

Just no more wow lmao

[thorny aurora]

Hey, question about the opener

It's stated on IV to open with mutilate from stealth

Why not open with ambush?

[spice spire]

!ambush

[prisma monolith]

Macroing Ambush to Mutilate only works with the use of a addon.
It comes with the downside that it often requires multiple key presss.
Suggested addon to use(Gnome Sequencer):http://tiny.cc/mxb6tz
Showcase Video: #assassination message

[spice spire]

Wrong one

Essentially, there are many reasons, the main one being that mutilate generates more CP and more damage.

[stoic needle]

!mut

[prisma monolith]

Ambush is currently only used from blindside/sepsis proc, not from stealth.
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3).
Some other factors to consider are increased poison applications, blindside, and doomblade. This is true for all talent combinations and legendaries.

[spice spire]

Ty papi osh

[thorny aurora]

Thanks !

[stoic needle]

[thorny aurora]

So let's say you're not playing blindside, you like never ever use ambush ? 🤔

[spice spire]

Correct

[stoic needle]

Yep

sad isn't it

[spice spire]

Unless it gets buffed

[thorny aurora]

A little yeah haha

[spice spire]

Ambush more dead than my hopes and dreams

[thorny aurora]

Plus I gotta change some bindings cause I only have amb in my stealth bonusbar for when I play outlaw

[stoic needle]

Ambush should deal damage equal to 5 seconds of rupture if it hits a ruptured target

Or something

[spice spire]

Also oddly, during an MA window If you get a BS proc - you choose that over another mut

Not oddly, but seems counter intuitive.

[thorny pond]

Mut procs blindside iirc

that's why

[stoic needle]

Yeah it's the same as not sinister striking with an opportunity proc

[spice spire]

It is - but I always have the dam on my mind

Except not - my parses are a travesty lmao

[stoic needle]

I'm excited to use blindside again on sire

I've missed it

[spice spire]

You got SLG?

[stoic needle]

All of my prog has been with ep vigor lol

Soon

I swear to God it dies on Friday

We got to 25% p3

[spice spire]

You did EP vigor for sludgefist?

[stoic needle]

The next couple times we make it into p3 they're dead

Yeah EP vigor is more burst on the pillars

[spice spire]

Ahhhh yes ofc

[stoic needle]

I still parsed an 8 tho

First pillar soak was out of melee range

[spice spire]

Imma hit you with it like I hit my boomy friend. On mythic, parses don’t mean shit - the boss kill is the W for prog

Current group can’t down shriekwing by the second intermission so that parse is SCUFFED forever

[cerulean nest]

so is necro sin ~feeling~ like the best move in 9.1?

thinking about leveling up necro covenant now

[stoic needle]

It's feeling stinky

And good dps

Lots of stuff to cheese with sbs in the new tier

[keen tree]

Stay loyal to the vamp bois brother!

[thorny pond]

Ok Edward

[stoic needle]

I'm gonna be 5/10 CE what the hell is that gonna look like applying to guilds

[shy dust]

Who knows

Maybe it is

Maybe it isn’t

[stoic needle]

[spice spire]

Like you paid for a boost

[stoic needle]

It's ok I have ~100+ wipe logs to prove I'm not boosted

[thorny pond]

Then that's fine

[spice spire]

They were the budget boosting surface LMAO

[thorny pond]

Reminds me of my boosting service

[rustic whale]

i m 5/10 M raider. Played Venthry and Necro (both renown 31). Venthry is far ahead for ST fights to me, while Necro rips M+ ( assassin ). So with new Necro Lego i m sure it will be best for M+. But for Raiding i highly suggest to stay as Venthry

[spice spire]

But also after hard forcing me into venthyr, osh left the covenant smh
Vampire boi for life, I guess

[stoic needle]

I'm sorry

I'm in love with deathspike

Necrolord is only 80 dps behind venthyr atm

That might change with the new soulbinds but I doubt it

[cerulean nest]

hm

might switch just to have it ready to go just in case

[rustic whale]

it is still early

[cerulean nest]

we're about to kill council but I doubt we move on to sludge and stuff

[rustic whale]

wait a bit more

[stoic needle]

Venthyr is better burst and really shines with damage amplification mechanics but I don't see any sludgefist like fights next tier

[cerulean nest]

so I don't mind switching

[stoic needle]

You can swap and swap back before 9.1 releases

[cerulean nest]

yeah exactly

[rustic whale]

i did swapping because i dont know what 9.1 will bring

but atm (actually today) swapping back to venthry

[stoic needle]

I have my swap back quest ready to turn in

[rustic whale]

i cant deny the power of SBS M+ power

but for raiding Venthry is darn smooth

all i could say up to your playstyle

if you think you are good with venthry go for it

because its like if you are doing more dps as outlaw/sub go play with those specs

hope it helps regards

[stoic needle]

I find venthyr to be kinda boring in comparison to necrolord

It's just press button do dam

[cloud reef]

better than night fae, press button do no dam

[shy dust]

So is sbs

You press it

Then press it again during gemstones

[rich wren]

i'm finishing venthyr 40 this week and it feels really lame and bad by comparison to me

[dusty garden]

Crit mastery or haste vers on sire wep guys?

[rich wren]

used to being necro for 2 months but i really really hate flagellation lmao

[dusty garden]

i know its proably 0 difference but help me decide

[shy dust]

Flagellation feels fine

[stoic needle]

On single target sure but it's more engaging in aoe

[rich wren]

any multi it's way more fun

[stoic needle]

https://tenor.com/view/sim-simyoself-gif-20048910

And if you aren't running heirmir you use it during shiv which feels really good

[rustic whale]

why? it provides nice burst and haste

[shy dust]

Press on mob that doesn’t have sbs

Doesn’t seem too engaging

[stoic needle]

Still more engaging than flag

[shy dust]

That’s not a high bar to reach

[stoic needle]

And?

[dawn ivy]

still not wrong

[shy dust]

You press mutilate more than envenom

Therefore it’s more engaging

[stoic needle]

We're comparing covenant abilities here

[alpine latch]

What item level did you guys need to start just doing stealth runs on layer 8 of Torghast?

[stoic needle]

Not rotation abilities

[shy dust]

The same principle applies

[stoic needle]

~210

[stoic needle]

Doesn't matter, my comment was that sbs is more engaging than flag

[alpine latch]

Thanks! I've been getting carried with a mage these last two weeks. I'm hoping to not need him since I know he hates Torghast.

[stoic needle]

Stop arguing for the sake of arguing man

[rich wren]

because "burst" and auto attacks aren't fun for me@rustic whale

[stoic needle]

yeah rogue is easy af in torghast now, you could probably do it with less gear than that if you play well and maybe clear a little extra

[alpine latch]

I'm only 193 and just built my first leggo on this guy.

[thorny pond]

We all start somewhere

[alpine latch]

Not sure I'd be able to do it yet

[thorny pond]

Treat it like early choreghast and go stealthily

[stoic needle]

the lower ilvl you are the more beneficial it is for you to clear more to get more powers

[alpine latch]

My Alliance guild stopped raiding until 9.1 and I still wanted to raid (and I really needed a change of scenery anyway), so I boosted a Horde rogue last Monday night

[stoic needle]

and freeing the souls helps a ton

[thorny pond]

I don't think I could manage 2 rogues so props to you

[alpine latch]

First time playing Sin since Legion, so it's actually nice.

I'll probably take my Alliance Sin too. Outlaw is just hectic.

[thorny pond]

It is hectic

Some people enjoy that

[alpine latch]

Yeah, I don't. Also Sin just pumps damage.

I was 191 with no legendary and I was hitting 4k overall in m+

Granted I'm a shit warlock, but my warlock is 218 item level and was only hitting like 4500

[thorny pond]

Absolutely

We have a great damage profile for most content

Engaging talent choices (some) and we aren't cookie cutter for all content, which feels good

[tropic drum]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[alpine latch]

I need to get better at my rotations and just overall melee. Most of my experience is on ranged except just fucking around on farm content.

I'm not using Envenom nearly as much as I thought I would in m+

[thorny pond]

You really don't

[alpine latch]

It's mostly when I shiv the priority target, or if it's a long path between pulls (Spires) and I need to refresh SnD asap

[stoic needle]

yeah you basically just use envenom when things wouldn't live the duration of a bleed or to refresh SND

or in single target/2 target

[thorny pond]

^

Envenom after shiv once feels good too for poison applications

[tropic drum]

for M+ fortified weeks would zoldyck insig outperform doomblade by quite a lot?

[thorny pond]

every week

[stoic needle]

it outperforms doomblade every week

[tropic drum]

bugger

thanks (y)

[stoic needle]

soon doomspike will reign supreme

and the heirmir mastery soulbind

[thorny pond]

Mastery SB means you can stack other stats

and still get your fix