assassination

[royal lantern]

gdocs is like

no answer EVER

[warm parcel]

Guess guild website apps arent a thing anymore

[royal lantern]

i have yet too find the guild that does that

my current guild wanted me btw

and like, higher ranking, they got ce, so im happy

@hollow escarp wanna know peak depression during guild finding?

put myself up on wowprogress, get a friend request 2-3 days later

it was a

wait leme check

[hollow escarp]

ohh, I thought getting accepted as trial for 2 guilds

and then you having to pick

[royal lantern]

rank210

guild

[hollow escarp]

[royal lantern]

they wanted me

now comes the problem

they where alliance

it was ok for me tbh

BUT i had 3 irl friends on horde side

so i said no, sorry

2weeks later, all 3 said they stop playing wow

🙂

:))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

:)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

[hollow escarp]

oof

most of my friends are horde but I was alliance for most of the time I played wow

[royal lantern]

and the good thing, im alliance again now anyway

thx flo

fuck you, srsly, thats why push you off the map in destiny

[hollow escarp]

I mean, alliance is not that bad if you get in an established guild

[royal lantern]

ye, ofc

i was alliance most of my time too

[hollow escarp]

like Howling from Honolulu said, they don't need to transfer to horde as they get a lot of applications

[royal lantern]

horde has more players yes

but more players<----->better players

[hollow escarp]

what kills a lot of guilds now is people not showing up for raids

so if you don't have quantity

you can't even progress

[royal lantern]

yep

[sonic schooner]

Oh dood wowprogress. My rsham friend got 14 friends request within a day with 75 average parse on Heroic. I got 2 friends request in a week with 94

[royal lantern]

never do long raid breaks

1week after CE ye

[sonic schooner]

Rogue life

[royal lantern]

but after that push people for farm runs

if you stop raiding for 2-3weeks>people stop showing up

[hollow escarp]

2-3 weeks is a lot

for most guilds means progressing a boss

and killing it

[royal lantern]

like i said, raids every week, do a 1week break after CE and then do farm runs, otherwhise the chance for people stop showing up is way too high

[heavy trail]

at 19 assassin is very energy starved haha

[royal lantern]

sin during lvling is a big no no

painfull as hell

[heavy trail]

well practice anyway but doing it for a few reasons

[sturdy mesa]

Raiding with a good fun environment and stil getting CE is the best. Nothing overly serious is always pog

[royal lantern]

eh, you dont really practice a class during lvling

[hollow escarp]

especially not sin

[royal lantern]

at best you somewhat get muscle memory, but thats it

[hollow escarp]

as you build up one mob

and finish the other

[rocky pecan]

Hello guys someone can say me what best stat would be for zoldyck on legs ?

[royal lantern]

whatever sims highest for you

[heavy skiff]

how does iqd decide the stat it gives u? is it just random between ur 2 highest stats?

[stoic needle]

It's your highest stat by rating during lust

[heavy skiff]

and outside of lust?

[heavy trail]

@royal lantern So there you go. Agreed. And I get to play with my brother and his son too 🙂

[tribal marlin]

https://i.imgur.com/X2zr2Mi.png

is that true

he must be joking

[hollow escarp]

really curios how can you ever achieve that

[sonic schooner]

i think i ve heard limitmax talking about that few days ago aswell

🤔

[ocean zodiac]

@tribal marlin that is like 6 melee spots for actual dps, so its not far fatched

[sonic schooner]

just make the boss having anticast mecanics 4head

[ocean zodiac]

7/8 melee also includes hpalas

[hollow escarp]

add quacking and volcanic mechanics in raids

[sonic schooner]

quaking in raids

would be a disaster, i can imagine mages ragequitting

[royal lantern]

huh?

[placid dawn]

also includes mistweavers

[vital tapir]

sure

get ranged cucked

[tribal marlin]

To be honest they actually have sort of a very very well designed encounter that really made it

like a school case

and it's Denathrius

Like, you might not played ranged but

going into the mirror as a ranged class, it's just so inneffective

it's really suptoptimal, ranged guy just don't live in that shitty place

[sonic schooner]

gladly Sire grab you to the mirror to make u spend less time walking

[tribal marlin]

such that you basically needs to have melee to go into the mirror

[worn fossil]

Actually mirror Phase is not too bad for Ranges

At least for firemages

[warm parcel]

well they dont have to stop

so thats not really a fair comparison

[tribal marlin]

lots of ranged are dying out there

if you have premium immunity you might live

[worn fossil]

at the 2nd bait you mean?

[tribal marlin]

but you're just dying, you also get knock threw so you need to actually play melee to make sure you are on the correct side of the boss (while when being knocked back, you just gotta move forward a bit)

ye 2nd bait

there is (use to at least) 2 soak so you gotta move as well from one soak to the other, while being knocked threw

[worn fossil]

well, i actually dont know. we just had 2 firemages in melee phase. maybe could work as hunter pretty well. poor for the rest

[tribal marlin]

every ranged will under perform in the mirror, really

execpt you know BM

[worn fossil]

yea

i mean, you prolly just want one cause of heroism

for reasons

[tribal marlin]

we have a shaman

think we were 1 dk 1dh 1rog 1war 1 monk and 1 kitty + 2 tank + holy pal and resto shamy that usually get BR or Ank while Feral get protted

But anyway the point is that they manage to make a fight that isn't really restricting your melee spot to ideally <4 that much and it has been a long time since such a last boss was made

[faint harness]

fire mages can do well in mirror part of p3

[heavy trail]

@royal lantern If you didn't get it, then don't worry about it 🙂

[green flame]

why ryfietv use 34% crit and 5 haste 32 mastery?

[plain thistle]

maybe thats where it landed with his best gear, not like he has chasing exactly those numbers

[green flame]

ahh okok

[plain thistle]

he is a m+ player, so he probably has more crit/mastery than "normal"

because mastery is not very good for single target but good for AoE

and haste looses a little bit of value for AoE, and good for ST

[green flame]

thxxx

that help me alot

for my onw build

[plain thistle]

but I assume he has more crit than other status, and crit is very good for AoE and ST

[green flame]

got u

thx

[steep reef]

hello gm #assassination

[hard yarrow]

when doing keys, is Crimson Tempest not worth using on ST?

[heavy trail]

So did my first storming dungeon. That's annoying 🙂 Any tips for that other then being ranged 🙂 ?

[hollow escarp]

avoid hitting tornadoes

[hollow escarp]

yes, maintain outside shiv windows

[heavy trail]

with 2-3 of them going on sometimes hard as melee to avoid em but will practice

Is there a way to limit the number of them or anything outside of just dodging ?

[ornate lake]

For sludgefist mythic, would you use DFV on timers of vendetta? (Pull, 2nd and 4th pillar?) Or use on 1st, 3rd and post 4th?

[hollow escarp]

mfd simming 146 more dps than vigor in dslice

[grand ridge]

At least you can kinda aoe from a mid range using fok and ct

[slow marsh]

If you do get hit by a tornado don't forget you can shadow step down from it so you don't get wombo combod

[grand ridge]

You can cloak em too

[heavy trail]

Yeah noticed that i guess just doing it and practicintg avoiding will help mitigate any dps loss. Thanks folkjs.

[slow marsh]

You can kind of bait them too so once you get the rhythm it's no big deal

[stoic needle]

https://tenor.com/view/i-pretend-i-do-not-see-it-i-do-not-see-it-emoji-ew-gross-gif-20086803

[heavy trail]

well i did a 7 for practice they dont seem to do too much though my most damage taken was them haha. Tank ate about 300k worth and i was at about 90k

i guess ranged had less since a bit easier for them

[hollow escarp]

can link you the sim

[slow marsh]

They don't kill you by themselves. They cc you into something else that kills you usually if it does

[stoic needle]

Link what sim

[hollow escarp]

mfd > vigor

[grand ridge]

What is mfd 🤔

[slow marsh]

Marked for death talent

[floral shoal]

About stormy: they seem to spawn about the same time. Try to get your tank to move 10 feet, tanks don't like stormy either

[stoic needle]

I don't sim MfD because I'm necro

[hollow escarp]

[slow marsh]

Weirdchamp

[stoic needle]

MfD and sbs together is unnecessary

[slow marsh]

But did you sim it

[stoic needle]

Why bother

MfD isn't as impactful for sin as it is for outlaw

We've been through this before

[slow marsh]

I used mfd in keys last night and I'm Necro but I was doing MA NS CT

[stoic needle]

Yeah that's different

[slow marsh]

Of course

[stoic needle]

With the normal zoldyck build and sbs

[hollow escarp]

[stoic needle]

You don't really need mfd

[slow marsh]

Agreed

[stoic needle]

[hollow escarp]

1 dps difference

from vigor

[grand ridge]

Wcl statistics are where it's at

[slow marsh]

False

[hollow escarp]

what statistics?

nobody logs m+

[stoic needle]

Padcraftlogs?

[slow marsh]

Picraftlogs

Cheesecraftlogs

[timber basalt]

is the dungeon slice sim accurate for assa?

[grand ridge]

the top 10 parses across all dungeons - 80 parses only four of them have run mfd

[timber basalt]

i tried simming 190 zoldyck vs my doomblade and 190 ma and both came out much higher

[grand ridge]

you can say that doesn't matter, but it sure looks like most top performers aren't running mfd to me

[stoic needle]

Yes

[stoic needle]

None of the top m+ players log their dungeons

[hollow escarp]

yeah, but are those top performers running the same profile as I do?

[stoic needle]

M+ parses are irrelevant

[hollow escarp]

pretty sure most top m+ players are necrolord

[stoic needle]

M+ parses are based on speed, not damage

[hollow escarp]

pretty sure they are not on speed either

but on key level

[stoic needle]

The leaderboards are the time and key level

[grand ridge]

you can show it by dps

[stoic needle]

But again

None of the top players log their dungeons

I have all 97+s on every dungeon

From doing 12s and 13s

This is just objectively false

There is no way I'm the #43 assassination rogue in the world

[blissful storm]

might be bc close to nobody plays assa in dungs xdd

[hollow escarp]

[north basin]

U are #43 assa in the world, well logging assa )

[grand ridge]

It would be nice if more people logged their m+

but I see your point

[hot helm]

Would anyone be into log review? This is my first expac on rogue and I feel like im missing something with raiding

[stoic needle]

Yeah I agree it would be nice

[hollow escarp]

are you guys gonna apply in the raider.io charity event?

to play with 2 pros and 1 influencer?

[slow marsh]

How are you higher than me

[hollow escarp]

points =/= damage

[slow marsh]

I demand a recount

I'm memeing but just proving m+ logs mean nothing

[hollow escarp]

for some reason I only have logs from early season

no idea how

like wtf is this

[slow marsh]

The healer I run with logs literally everything so

[grand ridge]

Look at wcl and sort assassination rogue by key, view +24 keysa

[slow marsh]

Ah yes I don't miss the sub days at all

[hollow escarp]

190 ilvl

[grand ridge]

There are two rogues lmao

[slow marsh]

Honestly they're trolling for doing 20+ anyways

[hollow escarp]

????

[grand ridge]

Assassination is best spec

[hollow escarp]

same damage as outlaw = trolling

[slow marsh]

Pushing high keys 20+ not as outlaw is trolling

But more power to them

[stoic needle]

You're wrong, but that's okay

[hot helm]

would anyone be into critiquing my raid logs?

[grand ridge]

Link em

[hot helm]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/zuljin/tortortor?zone=26&new=true

[plain warren]

hello what are the talent for assassination in mm+ please ? 🙂

ty

[wary ice]

EP in st is wrong

[grand ridge]

I bet your parses would be higher if your group underhealed farm bosses and the lower dps brought their dps up. more dps > shorter fight > more hero uptime

[wary ice]

your opener on hungering is all over the place

[stiff tapir]

Sludgefist we use vendetta on pull 2nd and 4th yeah?

For mythic

[wary ice]

theres also a weird point ~70s in where you're throwing poisoned knives and im pretty sure you're capped on SBS charges

you do this often actually

[sage mist]

not necessarily, but EP is usually paired with Vigor. I know that I sim within 2dps running EP and Vigor over BS and DS. I like this playstyle a bit more too bc vigor allows for a faster opener or recovery after being hit with mechanics. so i have been running EP/Vigor and have seen an improvement bc of the recovery aspect

[stiff tapir]

I ran EP/vigor for council and I’m doing it for sludgey wudgey too. Big pump

I also bribed one of our priests to pi me so huge dam

[sage mist]

yeah, i started running EP/Vigor on Sire for the faster opener as we switch targets, but i ended up liking the playstyle more, plus like i said, my single target sim is withint 2dps

haha yeah, i had a pocket priest that was using PI on me on cooldown while we were carrying new players through Heroic

it actually took some getting used to bc i would have to be careful to not start energy capping whenever it was up

[kind talon]

Ep vigor is fine

[stiff tapir]

On sludge it’s during my cd windows so I wassssss goinggggggg nutssssss

[sage mist]

yeah, that happened to me on hunts last night. with bleeds on both targets, cooldowns, and PI i was attacking and finishing on global cooldown just to keep my energy below 100 to 120

[kind talon]

Nice dude

[sage mist]

it's certainly fun... just can't be expected to happen that way all the time, but i enjoyed it while it lasted 🙂

[hot helm]

@wary ice I think I'm used to saving SBS charges for spawns, but on hungering that doesn't matter yeah. So i need to fix that SBS>knives on ST

@wary ice I thought i was doing the ravenholdt open, but i guess im messing that up

[sage mist]

Dont cap SBS charges, but I do try to save them for when gemstones procs during the crit/burst window. However, if you are at range, it is better to use them for more dps then hold them for gemstones

[slow tulip]

hey, bois, wanted to ask smt - we are progressing sire - should i go for zoldyck cuz the 3rd phase is the hard one or doomblade ?

[kind talon]

You casted garrote from stealth on shriekwing

[wary ice]

the only difference is you SBS instead of first mut as necro

[rain edge]

does length of fight effect parses? longer fight time = lower parse?

[hot helm]

outside of open + capping SBS, would those really bring down parse below like 75?

[wary ice]

I mean

mistakes like that extending throughout a 5:30s kill time probably wouldyeah

[hot helm]

wait so its it better to throw a SBS over a Mut when about to cap charges?

[kind talon]

Yea

[hot helm]

even with the doomblade leggo?

[stiff tapir]

My opener adds a mut right before vanish. So I can just envenom, mut, mut envenom during MA

[kind talon]

Yeah

[sage mist]

plus to parse high on hungering, you almost have to cloak a consume and keep dpsing, not sure if you did thaht

[kind talon]

The doom blade leggo is a bleed

[hot helm]

i don't cloak the consume, ill try that next time

[kind talon]

You can see the duration

[sage mist]

just make sure your raid leader knows you are doing it lol

[kind talon]

With nameplates

[hot helm]

i thought i should prio its uptime, and therefore mut>SBS, but that doesn't seem to be a problem

[kind talon]

You also don’t have a monk

Gg

[hot helm]

we do, he wasn't there last night, birthday boy

[slow tulip]

hey, bois, wanted to ask smt - we are progressing sire - should i go for zoldyck cuz the 3rd phase is the hard one or doomblade ?

[hot helm]

@kind talon if i change those personal things, do you think it would change the parse alot?

[wary ice]

are you seeing third phase?

[stoic needle]

You should go zoldyck the whole way if you plan to use it in the 3rd phase so you don't mess up your phasing timers by swapping legendaries mid prog

[slow tulip]

thanks bois, thats helpful

i think ill startwith zoldyck right away

[stoic needle]

[rain edge]

quick question: if you have a couple seconds left on both rupture and shiv CD, do you shiv and go without rupture for the shiv window, or hold shiv to use couple CP and get rupture going then pool to shiv? im assuming the latter for energy regen on rupture during the window

[stoic needle]

Shiv then rupture

[wary ice]

generally it means you shoulda ruptured like 3 seconds ago; but yeah rupture in shiv if you have to keep it up

[rain edge]

ty, yea i always try to keep uptimes spread apart but sometimes things just line up like that

[grave dock]

are people refreshing rupture outside pandemic to ensure you don't have to refresh in a shiv window?

[wary ice]

no

Theres just a lot of things that have to go wrong for you to need to early rupture to avoid it dropping in a shiv window

Which, again, prevention is the best medicine on. If you get there you messed up earlier.

[stoic needle]

Refreshing rupture outside pandemic to prepare for shiv is fine tho

If you have to choose between that and refreshing inside shiv it's better to do it outside

But honestly it's a miniscule difference either way

[grave dock]

I don't get what you mean by something has to go wrong for that to happen

rupture refresh is always going to be slightly variable, and given shiv's short CD, it seems like you could run into that situation without really doing anything wrong

[kind talon]

Ur right sath

Idk what they meant either lol

[stoic needle]

Yes and no

If you pool for energy properly things will naturally be lined up to the point where you don't have to refresh anything during shiv

[pine bridge]

General states priority?

[last cedar]

ST or aoe?

[pine bridge]

Hit me with both

[last cedar]

sim it

[pine bridge]

I know just want a general idea

Before going full assassination

[kind talon]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

In general simming yourself is the recommended way to determine stat weights.
The following is a general recommendation, but you will always get more accurate results through simulation.
Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[last cedar]

^

want to get a certain amount of haste, more if you're not venthyr.

Everything else is really simming and moving pieces around

[kind talon]

Actually

You want to prio crit if you have an iqd

But that’s the only thing

[last cedar]

for example, I'm stacking more crit for iqd -- so I am almost 100% in vanish

[pine bridge]

Ok im venthyr outlaw atm god i need a lot of haste then as i have 30% crit , 8% haste

[last cedar]

right what @kind talon said

[kind talon]

It’s not the end of the world

Just sim gear upgrades and play the game

You’ll get there eventually

[last cedar]

If you're curious, my stat weights for AOE are crit > vers = mastery > haste

You should have decent gear to make the swap anyway

Wasn't outlaw haste > x = y > z

so should be similar enough already

haste > vers = crit > mastery or some shit

[stoic needle]

for aoe it's more like crit > mastery > vers=haste

[pine bridge]

My highest stat weights atm are haste , but unlucky with gear , decent amount of crit and vera tho

[kind talon]

Outlaw is crit and verse over haste @last cedar

For aoe

[pine bridge]

Yea

[last cedar]

ah sorry was talking about ST

[kind talon]

Oh yeah haste

Pretty good

Unless you’re using uh

[last cedar]

was outlaw to venthyr, so I didn't really run into a gearing issue outside of a 2nd weapon

[kind talon]

MA

[pine bridge]

I just got tangledwood 226 dagger that ive been waiting to get for 4 weeks nw

[kind talon]

Then it’s haste and verse

[last cedar]

gratz @pine bridge took me forever to get a 2nd dagger lol, was using the 213 pvp one for a few eeks

got tangle after like 15 runs

[stoic needle]

ironically if i sim stat weights vers is my 'worst' for both st and aoe

[pine bridge]

God help me on the 2nd weapon

[kind talon]

Lmao I was using 200 oh dagger

[hot helm]

My stat weights eventually want me to have like 20% in everything. Is that wrong?

[kind talon]

I ran one plaguefall with @stoic needle

And boom

[hot helm]

Should i not be leaning towards haste/crit

[kind talon]

220 offhand

[stoic needle]

i don't understand how you reach this conclusion by simming stat weights

[kind talon]

Link the sim?

[last cedar]

blizz don't nerf the flag leggo

[stoic needle]

it's worse than doomblade

so i doubt they will

[last cedar]

but my sludge parses post 9.0.5

1m flag

[kind talon]

It’s not

1m

[last cedar]

"Each combo point spent while Flagellation is active decreases it's cooldown by 1 sec."

[kind talon]

Yeah it’s like average 1:10

[last cedar]

😦

but

[kind talon]

P sure but u can ask Whispyr

If he’s awake

[last cedar]

ok

[kind talon]

@balmy condor what did the math come down to?

Like avg 70/75 seconds for obedience?

[hot helm]

just rerunning sims

[ionic kelp]

isnt the leggo still bugged af? like it gives cdr outside of its activation

so its pretty strong

[last cedar]

stay bugged

[kind talon]

Yeah it’s bugged on the ptr

But there’s no way 30-40 second flag goes live

[ionic kelp]

its like close to a 30s cd, which is insane for getting bursts of haste + verse

yup

[kind talon]

Also the verse is bugged too

Lmfao

Unless they changed it it’s only the first 12 seconds

[hot helm]

Stat weights: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cMacfSDop3nj3fQm8RYTTX and my best gear sim: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gBXCkHqHB8vMcUVLR2JB4J which has basically all 20% +/- 3%

[cold sparrow]

Does it matter much if I do Vendetta + Sepsis > Shiv vs Sepsis > Vendetta + Shiv?
I feel like the 2nd one is a bit better because I can fit 1 more GCD like Mut into Vendetta at the end?

[kind talon]

Sepsis before vendetta

[cold sparrow]

Thought so, thank you!

[silent stratus]

any sin rogue who does +20m here? whats ur avg overall dps?

if u cluster all the m+ together

[hollow jolt]

You can check out ryfie @silent stratus

He streams a lot and has his disc with his dmg n stuff

[stoic needle]

1. +-3% is a lot
2. that's not how stat weights or top gear sims work. it just so happens that 20% of each stat is best for you, but the bis gear sets don't have 20% of all stats

[late cliff]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[short hamlet]

I try to do that but our kill times are in the 4.5 minute mark, so it's either delay the second one by a lot or just never get the third one

[kind talon]

True

[misty zenith]

Am i true in thinking the soulbinds for assa and conduits are kinda weak?

[short hamlet]

in general our conduits are not nearly as impactful as some other classes, no

but that means you have to farm less stygia

so rejoice

[compact pumice]

Our strongest conduits are the covenant ones so yeah, you're very correct

[kind talon]

Except for kyrian and night fae

[hot helm]

i guess my followup question is am i hindering myself with stat weights like that? like are those sims misleading?

[stoic needle]

I don't think it can be considered 'hindering yourself' by using the best combination of the gear you have available. if you want to look for more upgrades you should sim your character with top gear

[compact pumice]

The sims are not misleading, it's just that you can't make any real decisions by simming stat weights, unless you want to know like "Why is this item good? I thought the stats were my worst!" then you can sim for stats and see that like it's actually good for you because you have so little or because you simmed DSlice instead of Patchwerk etc.

If you want to make decisions regarding gear in some way the best way is always to sim it (probably using Top Gear at that point but you can do some Gear Compare sims, it's just a bit more annoying to set up).

[hollow escarp]

night fae is fine

you just need low ilvl WPS and 226 Septic

[keen cairn]

Shouldn't TC layer 3 Floor 6 Mortregar drop doomblade?

[hollow escarp]

never did it myself, but I've heard it's based on first floor layer type

not 100% sure

[keen cairn]

yeah i resetted until I got Mortregar

killed the floor 6 boss

no Lego

[hollow escarp]

layer 3?

you said already

[keen cairn]

yeah

[kind talon]

[sand gyro]

Doomblade on Shoulders or Hands? WoWhead says shoulders but see a lot of people with hands

[hollow escarp]

hands

also pins

[stoic needle]

Shoulder doombladers

[hollow escarp]

hey, I have MA with Crit Vers

don't bully

[stoic needle]

[kind talon]

[royal lantern]

ma with crit feels so galaxybrain

[hollow escarp]

what I can say in my defence is that it's not as bad on assa as it would be on outlaw

[royal lantern]

playing sin in m+ is pretty

and i love the spec

[hollow escarp]

you clearly don't

[fallow otter]

if you're a rogue and not just a sin player then playing mfd outlaw in keys atm is super fun

[hollow escarp]

I mean you can play all specs in every scenario

[royal lantern]

i just dont wanna think, outlaw m+ is great for turning the brain off

multidotting? meh, just bf and spam shit

[hollow escarp]

debatable, it's easier to do dps, but it's harder to min max

[fallow otter]

hahaha you could not be more wrong

[royal lantern]

im here for how many years now

[hollow escarp]

yeah, you can time keys with 5k dps

[stoic needle]

playing outlaw ever

[royal lantern]

and people STLL take all shit i say serious as fk

[hollow escarp]

gonna play outlaw on SLG tonight

[toxic quail]

Quick question; I’m progressing on SLG and my guild is letting me play Ass cause I’m better at it then Outlaw. I was going through my logs last night and I was top 3 dmg done on Goliaths and the Generals. The skirms and commandos die to fast to do shit to. Is there really anything else to do on that shit as Ass? Or just keep doing what I’m doing?

[hollow escarp]

I can't help myself, I have full sockets in outlaw gear

[royal lantern]

playing SLG

[fallow otter]

you gotta work on your emote game bro hahaha

[stoic needle]

imagine not being made to play sin on slg by your rl

[hollow escarp]

14% vers on outlaw

[fallow otter]

just play ww for slg bros

[stoic needle]

there really isn't anything you can do to change that, just keep pumping the goliaths and boss

[stoic needle]

WW is unethical

[toxic quail]

Kk that’s what I thought @stoic needle thanks man.

[stoic needle]

make sure to CT when the adds come up and use them for sbs resets

maybe toss a garotte on one for extra energy

but that's about it

[agile ledge]

This was my best attempt on sludgefist last night.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/zxBYydnMG7ADfbp9/#fight=27&type=damage-done&source=7

If anything looks completely off, id really appreciate some pointers.

Feel like im doing decent, but my percentile isnt the greatest so I have a couple questions. Ive been using shiv on cooldown but I feel like I often miss out on half of it because of stomps. Should I just hold it or is it okay to miss some of the duration?

On my opener I go ambush -> SND -> mutilate -> garrote -> flag -> rupture -> vendetta -> shive -> mutilate till 4 or 5 then vanish + ambush. It feels like it flows well as im need to refresh my dots right before the stomp but it feels bad because Im missing out on half the flag buff waiting out the stomp. Is there a different opener anyone uses?

During the middle of the fight, I feels like im holding on to flag forever just to use it on the pillars. Is it even worth waiting, or should I just use flag as soon as its up?

if I suck and one of my dots falls off during the pillar stun, is it even worth reapplying or should I wait until after hes awake again.

[toxic quail]

Yeah makes sense. My RL was like “Option why are you low on dmg?” I was like “bro don’t even. Check the Goliath and Boss dmg.” Then he said “Oh you right. Fair enough.”

[fallow otter]

my rogue is a bench boi atm but iirc you wanna vend before 6s in iirc?

6s latest iirc

[stoic needle]

your opener should be mut > snd > vendetta > mut > gar > flag > rup > shiv > vanish

if you dont vend and vanish early they won't be up at the right time for the pillar

[fallow otter]

well there it is, confirmed

[stoic needle]

on the first shiv after the pillar ends, hold it until after the stomp and it will be up again before he hits the pillar

[fallow otter]

🤩

[stoic needle]

you can shiv twice before the first pillar

[agile ledge]

Alright. Thats good to know.

[stoic needle]

i don't know whether it's more optimal to refresh or keep pumping during the pillar window

[fallow otter]

you wasted a global on bag of dicks tricks

[hollow escarp]

Silent Footpads in Soulforges wing

[stoic needle]

but you should always gar and rupture early during the hateful gaze/charge

so that you never have to make that decision

forget about pandemic before the charge just refresh early

[agile ledge]

Okay

[stoic needle]

try to move next to the pillar before he hits it so you can shiv him right as he's hitting it

[agile ledge]

@fallow otter And yeah... i started trying that last night in my opener because it felt like I had one GCD where I didnt have the energy to do anything, but if Im popping vendetta early then I probably wont have hat issue.

[fallow otter]

yeh true

[agile ledge]

yeah, Shiv was definitely not up when he hit the pillar more than once, so ill try and hold it right before.

[fallow otter]

i actually hate the current sin opener, sip your coffee while you wait

[agile ledge]

At least im not on council anymore, it felt way worse on that fight

[fallow otter]

sludge is fun af

its free now, chain is so long

[agile ledge]

Yeah my guild was not having a fun time on council, 8 min into a fight only to have your tank die isnt fun

[fallow otter]

kite?

strat

or tank first one strat

[agile ledge]

But thanks oshosi I appreciate it.

yeah, we eventually kited it, but it took a while to figure out what to do the last phase

we ended up killing the first gargoyle during phase 3 and after the dance then kited the rest

[placid pagoda]

I’m really struggling

I do M+ and raid as assa

Should I take doom over Zoldiks?

[stoic needle]

only for raid

[agile ledge]

I pretty much raid only at this point so I took doom

[royal lantern]

you dont use mut during trashpacks

[placid pagoda]

Tbh I have celerity maybe I just run outlaw until next week and craft Zoldiks then

[royal lantern]

so doom has 0 value there

its pretty easy too understand tbh

[hollow escarp]

69k flag crit in torghast

nice

[placid pagoda]

Does Zoldiks have value in raid?

[stoic needle]

mutilate at 3 or less targets, fok at 4+, only envenom to refresh SND or if there's low targets so you're only getting value from doomblade less than 50% of the time during a m+ key

zoldycks is good for all progression and for sire denathrius

and aoe fights like SLG

[placid pagoda]

Basically becomes an execute Lego right

[agile ledge]

@hollow escarp Do you feel like torghast is just fucking awful and boring as a rogue? Nothing we get is cool or interesting

[stoic needle]

i had a 200k sbs crit, come at me bro

[hollow escarp]

don't really care, just do it twice a week

[royal lantern]

if the boss needs execute or has a execute heavy phase, yes

[stoic needle]

torghast is free af as a rogue

[agile ledge]

Fair enough

[hollow escarp]

I hope they do something cool with it

[stoic needle]

we're probably one of the best torghast classes

[royal lantern]

not at expac launch

[hollow escarp]

but don't need it now

[agile ledge]

I mean, Im not commenting on the difficulty, just on whether or not its a complete slog to do compared to other classes

[stoic needle]

naw it's so easy

like you can either stealth through and just kill the bosses

or go MFD NS CT and blast everything

it takes like 20 mins a wing

[hollow escarp]

btw, if I have the ambush that ruptures ability with nighstalker, does it snapshot the rupture?

[stoic needle]

i think so

[royal lantern]

bruh

its easy now cus you outgear torghast by like

40ilvl

at expac launch rogue was so dogshit for it, it was sad

[agile ledge]

yeah I know its easy. Its just not fun

[hollow escarp]

7k this week

[agile ledge]

[hollow escarp]

might craft dashing

or deathly shadows

[stoic needle]

it was easy once i got to like 210

[stoic needle]

don't waste your time it's shit

[hazy ruin]

Dh has it the easiest, tbh

[hollow escarp]

overrated probably, but wouldn't say shit

[stoic needle]

learn from my mistake

[hazy ruin]

Dh gets perma IMO aura and it gets to a point where it just pulses 30-40k damage

[stoic needle]

its bad unless you're doing 22+ keys whereyou can actually use it in your routing

otherwise it's just worse

[hollow escarp]

I think I'd rather give some attention to sub

[stoic needle]

exactly

im gonna craft finality

[hollow escarp]

and get used to the spec when we all need to reroll next tier

[stoic needle]

and deathspike

[ruby birch]

Give in to the dark side

Roll Gloomblade spec

[stoic needle]

[hollow escarp]

I am specced into gloomblade

[ruby birch]

Just as you should be

[hollow escarp]

lemme check armory, too lazy to swap

[opaque mauve]

Is sub buffs that juicy ?

[hollow escarp]

we hope

[ruby birch]

It's looking real juicy

[hollow escarp]

3 viable specs

[ruby birch]

ShT guarantee on 4

[opaque mauve]

Nice ! After the akaari nerfs it kinda went down the toilet , shame as it’s a fun play style

[dull cloak]

inb4 perforated veins bis

[hollow escarp]

gonna move to #outlaw for 3 weeks now

[opaque mauve]

I’m currently running both for different things

A third is going to interesting

[sweet pecan]

hello

is the ??? good for ass rogue?

[halcyon zealot]

as in IQD? yes.

[sweet pecan]

its not better then the trinkets i have on combat rogue tho. is IQD bis?

[hot helm]

is that just the case for sludge?

[stoic needle]

yeah only for sludge

[hot helm]

other wise its the reg SBS/SND/Gar/Rup etc.?

[stoic needle]

iqd is bis for venthyr sin rogue yes

[sweet pecan]

ahh thnx

[stoic needle]

yeah. if you're necro you sbs snd always even on sludge

[sweet pecan]

i guess i will take it from the vault then

[hot helm]

oh and then vendetta after snd?

[sweet pecan]

all i need is a proper dagger and im good to play ass again

[stoic needle]

for sludge yeah

[hot helm]

is it worth pairing vendetta into vanish? or do you save vanish for slightly after for the envenom?

or do you vendettta /vanish/env at full cp?

[halcyon zealot]

it doesn’t matter you can either vanish > env > mut or vanish mut mut env

but you do want to sync the 2

[stoic needle]

with subterfuge you save vanish to refresh the subterfuge empowered garottes in pandemic
with MA you use it at some point during vendetta but it doesn't really matter where

[hot helm]

fair enough

is it worth running subterfuge on huntsman for the empowered garottes?

like is that even a thing?

[hollow escarp]

yes, but MA is fine as well

[undone ridge]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[cerulean nest]

honest answers only: if I'm aiming to push into 20+ keys next patch, am I an actual idiot for not learning outlaw? or is it basically a must?

[stoic needle]

Subterfuge and ma are basically equal on 2 target cleave

[fossil narwhal]

Anyone around to review logs? Have my first ST pull as assassination and I want to get ahead of obvious misplays before I get them engrained

[stoic needle]

You can push 20+ keys as Assassination perfectly fine

Don't listen to idiots who say that you have to play outlaw

[hollow escarp]

you might have issues getting a stable group though

[subtle tundra]

i have issues with that as outlaw

[cerulean nest]

nah wont be pugging, got a group

[stoic needle]

If you have a group go ham dude

[cerulean nest]

just want to make sure I'm not making it objectively more difficult for us

[hollow escarp]

well, it's better to discuss with your group then

to optimize group utility

[stoic needle]

If you're going to perform better with Assassination you'd probably be making it harder for yourself by playing a different spec worse

[hollow escarp]

a random example: let dh tank know that you will silence ads in opener with iron wire 🙂

so they won't waste sigil of silence

ngl, I've seen more people against assa in keys on this discord than I met while pugging or while doing keys with guildies lol

[cerulean nest]

i mean if the sub buffs are real I might even consider doing that lol

but yeah, learning an entirely new spec sounds tiring

since I just did it with sin lol

[hollow escarp]

it's good to know all specs of your class

especially as full dps class

but you can do one by one

[stoic needle]

People literally don't give a fuck in pugs except for 1/100 idiots who think they know our class better than we do

[cerulean nest]

yeah totally. i'll spend a bit more time with sin before i start learning probably

[stoic needle]

I'm interested in trying sub too especially since we share the same bis m+ gear

[cerulean nest]

i had a great time with sub

hoping the meta brings me back

[stoic needle]

They're getting an insane aoe buff

[ionic kelp]

you want to learn sub in m+?

storm -> black powder

[hollow escarp]

^

[ionic kelp]

congrats ur a pro

[hollow escarp]

for now

[ionic kelp]

ya when you're a little more comfortable dont forget to press dance and symbols

[fading wigeon]

Lol

@stoic needle what is stat priority in m+ set?

[stoic needle]

Crit > mastery = haste > vers

or maybe crit > mastery > vers=haste because vers helps you not die

[royal lantern]

you mean

dance and symbols TOGHETER

the 20000000IQ spec

silly sin mains think they could play it

[short hamlet]

Dance and symbols together

It's big brain time

Next thing you know we'll start doing shadowblades too

[fading wigeon]

Thank you

Is finality still the play for sub?

[short hamlet]

This is very true for rogues. Moreso if you want to be in cutting edge content (either high keys or mythic raiding). While you can get away with playing one spec, showing that you're versatile to play the best spec for the content at hand will generally build good will with your team too

[royal lantern]

play Rogue

not a spec

[stoic needle]

except outlaw

[short hamlet]

I resisted outLUL until I realized that the alternative was people wanting me to play my mage. Id rather play outLUL than mage.

[stoic needle]

yeah i'd rather play mage than outlaw

[short hamlet]

Outlaw is an insane button mashing fest

But at least I'm on my rogue

At this exact time it's just better for keys

Imo

[stoic needle]

i don't agree

like at all

sin does basically the same damage, so all outlaw really has going for it is gouge and extendo arms, both of which can be made up for by just playing better

[frosty bridge]

Well you play SIn in raids and Outlaw in cleave/m+

Though sin is sadly the most boring rogue spec

[ionic kelp]

also the fact that outlaw has an easier time of popping cds on high prides, and a better damage profile for prio adds into cleave

[frosty bridge]

The fun part about Sin is that it pumps numbers

[ionic kelp]

unless you vendetta prides then i dont know

[stoic needle]

except sin does better damage to prides and sin also does more cleave damage on 2-3 targets than outlaw

you do vendetta prides

and then you have it back up again for the boss

[royal lantern]

i mean

it does better dmg when you use your cd

[whole mason]

vend prides is solid.

[stoic needle]

it does more damage without the cd too

[royal lantern]

and vendetta on cd for bosses is WAY worse then arush on cd

[short hamlet]

I don't think I run a whole lot of routes with 2-3 targets per pull

[ionic kelp]

i dont really do 2/3 target pulls

[frosty bridge]

Luckily you almost always have more than 2-3 targets

[royal lantern]

^ that too

like

[stoic needle]

but you never have vendetta on CD for bosses

[royal lantern]

bruh

[stoic needle]

you vendetta the pride and it comes up during execute where you need it

[royal lantern]

you can like a spec, but saying "ACTUALLY OUTLAW IS WORSE THEN SIN FOR M+!!!!!!" is silly

[stoic needle]

but i didn't say that

i said they were equal

don't strawman me

[loud light]

ah yes all those dungeon bosses with important phase 3 mechanics that need executes

[stoic needle]

but you do more damage to the boss than outlaw does

[frosty bridge]

It's not equal though, outlaw is better

[stoic needle]

stop trying to apply raid logic to m+

[frosty bridge]

Even a tiny bit

[short hamlet]

The only dungeon that has a fair amount of 3 target pulls off the top of my head is Plaguefall but so much of that is using plagueborers and standing back as melee watching them go boom

[stoic needle]

but it's not

the only target counts where outlaw wins over sin is 4-5 targets

sin is better 1-3, and 6+

but overall they do pretty much the same damage

outlaw is safer

that doesn't make it better

[ionic kelp]

ya but where you are putting that damage into also matters

[frosty bridge]

I mean

You also have gauge and you saying "the same damage" without numbers doesn't mean much

[midnight mist]

but if sin and outlaw does the same dmg why would u pick sin since u have gouge and more range as outlaw

[stoic needle]

because it's more fun

[frosty bridge]

Subjective?

[stoic needle]

imagine wanting to have fun in a videogame

[frosty bridge]

Well great, but that's subjective

I prefer outlaw over sin in M+ any day of the week

[stoic needle]

cool story

[frosty bridge]

Talking from a balance/meta standpoint

[stoic needle]

#outlaw is that way

[solid chasm]

delete outlaw

[short hamlet]

Sin vs outlaw in this context reminds me a lot of the sub vs outlaw talks earlier in the expansion.

Sub does have 8 target cap but being realistic you rarely pull that large in high keys.

And if you're going for giga mdi strats you bring a uhdk instead of rogue

[whole mason]

I dont think sin is equal to outlaw in keys, but sin has silence cor the gouge comparison.

[stoic needle]

sin's DAMAGE is equal to outlaw's in keys

outlaw has a utility advantage but just

play better

if i play sin better than outlaw and do just as much damage

i'm not playing outlaw

[frosty bridge]

lol

good for you but that doesn't prove your point

[stoic needle]

but it does?

[short hamlet]

I mean that's kind of a weird statement because your performance on outLUL doesn't really mean anything. What matters is the typical output one could expect

[stoic needle]

my whole point is that they're close enough that you should play whatever you prefer and play best

[frosty bridge]

no because i think sin does great damage in outlaw and is probably better in 1-2 keys

[royal lantern]

but but but but, people told me fire mage is so strong cus its uncapped!!!!!! (lets ignore that most pulls dont go over the target cap)

[frosty bridge]

but overall outlaw is still better in m+ including damage

[stoic needle]

not including damage

[frosty bridge]

The aoe cap certainly helps

[grand ridge]

Fire is only op if the tank is pulling big too

[stoic needle]

like there's people doing 24+ keys as sin

top outlaw players playing sin and doing the same amount of damage

[royal lantern]

bruh, nobody said that sin is bad

both are good

sin better in some dungeons

outlaw slightly better overall

[whole mason]

personally I dont think that is true; it depends on a lot of conditions; sin needs more time for dmg starting working; unless you're talking about theories and pins disagree either.

[royal lantern]

thats it

[stoic needle]

the ramp up time of sin vs outlaw only matters in low keys which we aren't really talking about here

[ionic kelp]

all i know that is doing this is ryfie but that boy built different

[loud light]

to be clear, there's like 1 guy doing this

[short hamlet]

My friend always says that. I don't think he actually watches high keys where they rarely chain more than 1-2 pulls together

[ionic kelp]

mdi

[royal lantern]

MDI is not the real game or high keys

[ionic kelp]

exactly lol

[royal lantern]

people need too understand that

lol

[stoic needle]

there's ryfie, seliathan, kavansp, zerocool and even peen

it's way more than just one person

and just because the spec has less players doesn't mean it's any less capable of performing on a high level

[raven karma]

Hello, i do some tests with master assassin + Dreadfire Vessel. it seem master assassin dont guarantee the crit on Dreadfire Vessel ?

[whole mason]

I never doubt sin's potential, but the fact is it has its reason for less popularity...

[stoic needle]

what reason, people being sheep?

sin was better than outlaw in s3 of bfa and people still played outlaw

popularity means nothing

i'm not saying sin is better than outlaw

[frosty bridge]

So Jpc and Yenluo play Outlaw because they are sheep

[stoic needle]

i'm saying for all intents and purposes they do equal damage, and outlaw has slightly more utility

[frosty bridge]

Top players would play Sin if it was better

[stoic needle]

I

am

not

saying

sin

is

[grand ridge]

I wonder if part of it is how easy outlaw aoe is compared to assassination. I will say of course that assassination ST is pretty easy

[stoic needle]

better

[stoic needle]

this is absolutely part of it

[frosty bridge]

You are calling people sheep for playing Outlaw without a good reason to play it, maybe most people prefer how it plays

[fading wigeon]

It also has to do with how sin started out early in the expansion, and player perception

It's like frost mages. They are fine in keys at any level, but people think they need a fire mage

[stoic needle]

c'mon bro people just play stuff because it's ranked highly on a tier list or because their favorite streamer plays it, even if they don't actually like it

[frosty bridge]

Lol

[stoic needle]

sure there's some people who actually like outlaw but there's plenty of people who don't

[fading wigeon]

Streamer worship is so bad for this game

[short hamlet]

Every game

[fading wigeon]

^

[stoic needle]

JPC was literally playing sub in beta

[frosty bridge]

There is tons of people who don't like Sin either but play it in raids because it pumps

[limber lion]

Psychos

[short hamlet]

I would rather play sub than sin, but sin is so much better in single target at this point

That I do sin in raids

[stoic needle]

funny how push is playing sub and doing as much damage as sin on most raid fights

it's almost as if you should just play what you enjoy instead of following the meta

[limber lion]

He also kills most bosses twice as quick.

Let's not pretend Sub is as good as Sin

[short hamlet]

In the same way you just said outLUL is more forgiving than sin in AOE, the average player (which I am) can get way more pump out of sin than sub.

[ionic kelp]

you should totally play what you enjoy instead of following meta, but you also sacrifice getting a raid spot at that point too because guilds like having the best specs and there's nothing wrong with that

[loud light]

the "nothing matters, there are no facts, do what you prefer" thing is weird and not exactly a strict improvement from meta slaving

[stoic needle]

for the vast majority of the people in this server it doesn't really matter, if they put enough effort into either spec they'd get similar results

[ionic kelp]

ya but not everyone is a top mechanical player and the lack of performance mechanically is offset by the core strength of the spec itself. so playing meta helps in that regard

[raven karma]

Hi, someone can confirm pls ? i done some tests with master assassin + Dreadfire Vessel. And it seem master assassin dont guarantee the crit on Dreadfire Vessel use ?

[halcyon zealot]

yes

[loud light]

after the nerf to necrotic wake weapon usage, the MA legendary doesn't affect trinkets either

[halcyon zealot]

that was changed in 9.0.5

[whole mason]

check the pins

[halcyon zealot]

and the talent never affected trinkets

[raven karma]

spoked about talent master assassin

oh ok

too bad

[loud light]

yeah talent never did, lego did for a while but not anymore

sad times

[short hamlet]

Still big sadge they did this for trinkets

[loud light]

I assumed he meant the lego since he said "guarantee" and the talent is only 50% crit anyway

[shy dust]

This is just not true

Assa is significantly ahead of sub currently

It’s not even close

[short hamlet]

When you control for iLvl, the discrepancy between sin and sub is pretty dramatic imo. Obviously there are chads like Push who have great gear, are in a good guild with fast kill times, who put up great numbers in spite of this. But I think it's pretty objective to state that sub is notably worse than sin right now in the hands of an average skill/geared player

[winter gale]

If I want to purely ST Sire for entire fight I go Zoldyck/Blindside/Deeper Strategem?

Mythic prog*

[ionic kelp]

yup bs/ds/pb with zoldyck

[winter gale]

And is it normal that is sucks a bit during P1?

[north cobalt]

do you guys ever use thistle tea?

[ionic kelp]

totally normal, p1 literally does not matter and you will always end up holding dps once everyone gets comfortable

[winter gale]

I am currently EP/Vigor/Doom and still I am best on Sire and leutenant dmg by good versus others but dunno is that enough or shall I push even more. We just started to enter P3, best pull 33%

[halcyon zealot]

yes you’re playing full ST and with no legendary until you’re into p3, and p1 is all pad dmg

[short hamlet]

It shares a cd with combat pot, so I only use it in replacement of a more expensive pot

I.e. just doing lower keys memeing around

[halcyon zealot]

if you’re playing that build that you described, you can’t expect to do good p1 damage

[north cobalt]

ah ok nice. its really cheap and sounds like a cool rogue specific cheap option when just doing random shit haha

[cerulean nest]

when's the best time to pop first potion during council? saving one for lust at the start of niklaus obviously, but I mean earlier. right on pull for frieda?

[whole mason]

P1 most likely will be the last thing you worry about in that boss fight.

[halcyon zealot]

your second pot ideally should be in the 50-0% phase of nic when u have haste buff - hero phase should get pushed fast enough... but i guess as for your first pot it doesn’t really matter as long as it’s 5 min before you need your p3 one

[short hamlet]

Yeah I use them in world pvp too. They're still fun to use but just be aware they're going to put your combat pot on cd, but if that's not a problem with your content then go for it

[winter gale]

Ty guys. And one more q, as soaker very 1st Cleansing Pain, I dot prior to it and use CD after 1ST Blood Price?

Since I anyway need to delay my 2nd 2min CD's

[whole mason]

You vend on the 3rd GCD.

[cerulean nest]

gotcha okay.

[ionic kelp]

you dont vendetta twice in p1

[whole mason]

You can vend twice in P1, not?

[ionic kelp]

you can cause there's enough time, doesnt mean you should

cause you have to hold dps for so long that you're either fucking up the timing, wasting the cd itself, or fucking over the rest of your raid

[north cobalt]

i mean i'll still use agi when doing like actual challenging content and shit. but when im doing like 15s or something just to fill the time then i'll prob use those. and prob use them for open world shit just for the memes. they are SUPER cheat haha

[whole mason]

Not necessarily, unless you're assigned on evershaow

[velvet imp]

2 questions guys:

1. do u hold venthyr ability to line up with vendetta?
2. do u hold shiv if u know 2min cds are coming up shortly?

[short hamlet]

100%. They're an iconic rogue consume that can be fun. I really enjoyed them playing sub because that energy in shadowblades was fun.

[velvet imp]

also what are the pandemic timers for rupture and garrote, i assume around 4 sec or less

[whole mason]

Pushing dmg in P1 and you can wait before the transition.

Unless you need to burst Evershade, you need to save vend for that.

[halcyon zealot]

1. only hold flag for vendetta if you know you won’t miss a cast during the fight because of it — if you’re unsure, just use it on CD
2. you hold shiv for vendetta if it’s <12 seconds away from coming up

[velvet imp]

thanks

any other 99 logger tips u got for me

i switched to ass but didnt do the full detail research

[halcyon zealot]

garrote is around 6 seconds rupture is around 8

[lavish grove]

where do you get thistle tea from? They are 1500g on AH but i remember a vedor sells them in rogue order halls no?

[balmy condor]

I believe so

But why would you want thistle tea

[mighty bolt]

Tea is refreshing?

[halcyon zealot]

yeah nothing like a nice cup of chamomile

[thorny pond]

refreshing

replenished my energy

[wise fiber]

Is MoD still usable in higher keys? it take quite more time to things to die and get reset. or switch to vigor ?

[fallen arch]

Slam em when your WA’s light up

[frosty bridge]

How much time should I spend on minibosses and cabalists compared to Sire/Remornia?

Just rupture cabalists I guess?

[bleak sky]

rate my stats

[balmy condor]

I assume MFD, and yes, you can use it in higher keys perfectly fine, vigor is just preferred

[quartz kelp]

secondary stats

[balmy condor]

Unsurprisingly, they’re fine

[thorny pond]

your leech sucks

get better luck

[silent stratus]

parse mythic huntsman: EP + MA + VIgor + CT?

from what I understood, better pair vigor + EP?

[frosty bridge]

8% speed feels good

[thorny pond]

that's mythic hunts

[silent stratus]

I dont really look at top 100 breakdown

thats a sign of popularity, not inherently of what can perform better

[thorny pond]

It's a sign of what preforms well

[silent stratus]

not at all

[thorny pond]

Okay then do something better.

Because this community probably makes up the majority of tha tchart

[silent stratus]

ds is most popular lego for m+ outlaw

but doesnt perform better

for example

[frosty bridge]

Lol

[subtle tundra]

well CT is in theory better, yet 81% of those are PB

[bleak sky]

tfw don't have phial

[silent stratus]

a lot of bandwagoning effect comes into top 100 breakdon

[frosty bridge]

You are talking like top M+ players didn't try other legendaries

and are just playing DS for the memes

[thorny pond]

M+ is way more diverse than raiding

[silent stratus]

isnt so easy to switch between 235 legos

jpc/yas were one of the main reasons for ds popularity

otherwise there is no explanation why ppl in pug use ds for +18s lols

[thorny pond]

Because often times for M+ it's easier to do cookie cutter than to think for 15secs about comp routes etc

[subtle tundra]

i crafted DS cause its sims better even at 225 because my legs are high mastery

[frosty bridge]

Jpc made DS after celerity

[silent stratus]

anyway the issue isnt about ds, it is that just looking at what's the most used talents in top 100 breakdowns doesnt necessarily mean it's the thing that would perform better

[thorny pond]

Hardly. Most top players have simmed and tried, especially this late into the tier

Hunts isn't complex or uncharted waters

[silent stratus]

so u would go PB in huntsman mythic parsing?

[thorny pond]

Yes

[silent stratus]

bc 74% of top 100 used it?

[thorny pond]

Because it preforms better, sims better, and is inherently better for that fight and circumstance

[final fossil]

So is it still recommended to do Doomblade gloves with upgradeable M+ gear?

[thorny pond]

Is your guild going to kill M SLG?

[final fossil]

No

[thorny pond]

Craft on either then

[final fossil]

Good to know, thanks

[lavish grove]

Just to use a cheap pot in the open world

[balmy condor]

Better off just not using anything tbh

A 5 min cooldown for like 100 energy

Is honestly just a waste of your time

[thorny pond]

I hate using it in torghast even

[shy dust]

So 2t cleave poison bomb is better?

[gloomy knoll]

That’s cap

[nimble tartan]

idk why people think top 100 isnt just whats best for a given boss numerically its just stats. the argument 100% can be made for whats better for killing the boss and being helpful for some fights, but if the concern is numbers then just look at top 100 look at the already diverse builds (2 builds) and see that ep/vigor is better on some fights and blindside ds on others and on other ifghts they couldbe equal

[gloomy knoll]

Every time I’ve simmed 2t ct wins

[nimble tartan]

and then ct on others like

esp this late into the tier people are str8 padding now

[gloomy knoll]

People play pb because it’s easier

[nimble tartan]

so whatever is top 100 is prob the best numerically by now

[gloomy knoll]

And if you look at outlaw ghostly strikes is by far the bis St talent and nobody plays it because it’s harder

You can’t just look at the top 100 and say oh this is bis

[nimble tartan]

yeah u can

because top 100 isnt 1 build

[thorny pond]

Huntsman isn't pure 2t cleave. And at this point of the tier it is mostly numerical. Early on sure, cases can be made

[nimble tartan]

u can use your brain and see okay both builds have representation

[thorny pond]

But you asked for our opinion and I gave you mine

[nimble tartan]

i can play what i want but more so x build is better on average

[thorny pond]

PB has historically been more consistent to play

[shy dust]

But you gave your opinion

As a fact that it sims better

[thorny pond]

and parses better on that fight

[shy dust]

What are you simming pure st?

[grizzled root]

which is better on pure st?

pb or ct

[thorny pond]

PB is the better ST talent

[stoic needle]

valor gear isn't upgradeable to 226 btw

[balmy condor]

Guys I can only keep eyeballs on one channel

[nimble tartan]

its ok whispyr ill handle it

[bleak sky]

check the pins

handled it

ezpz

[nimble tartan]

this week i killed slg with wound poison on

ama

[gloomy knoll]

the top log has ct

[nimble tartan]

yeah ct is the best on slg for numbers

[gloomy knoll]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cqVQXtVhMVfLBGC4RBkCHn sims also support ct even with an add up only for 605

[balmy condor]

Aight I caught up, EP subt Vig CT is better on huntsman

[gloomy knoll]

*60%

sooooo

[balmy condor]

It’s 2 target sustain

[gloomy knoll]

whoever is saying pb is the play on huntsman

is straight cappin

[nimble tartan]

nobody said that bro

[balmy condor]

And 2 targets favours all of those talents

[limber lion]

CT always wins in 2T.

CT is already close in ST

[halcyon zealot]

parsing on SLG has a lot more factors than your talents also.. i.e you strat (fast or slow) overall kill time etc

[nimble tartan]

im not goign ct cause idk the opener

[limber lion]

Don't.

[nimble tartan]

im being honest bro

[halcyon zealot]

iirc the difference between fastest and slowest SLG kill is like over 6 minutes

[gloomy knoll]

beach literally said that pb was better

[nimble tartan]

i could learn the opener if i saw it 1 time but i dont know it so i wont talent it bro

[gloomy knoll]

lol

[bleak sky]

wtb ct opener tutorial

[gloomy knoll]

don't spread lies

[limber lion]

Yeah because opener is the most important part

[balmy condor]

Why does it matter?

[nimble tartan]

this is how im rank 80 sin i know my strengths and weaknesses

[limber lion]

That is what determines if you do damage or not

[gloomy knoll]

alright and i'm rank 27 sin

[nimble tartan]

idk opener im not playin it baby

[gloomy knoll]

big whoop

[limber lion]

How you press those buttons in the first 10 s of the fight

[halcyon zealot]

ofc

[stoic needle]

imagine practicing on a target dummy

[balmy condor]

Openers are super unimportant tbh

[nimble tartan]

i refuse bro

i know but ill feel cringe nae nae

[balmy condor]

Okay so you have no argument

[gloomy knoll]

so learn how to play the rest of your spec

[balmy condor]

Moving on then

[nimble tartan]

i know my spec bro

[limber lion]

Doesn't sound like it.

[nimble tartan]

wdym??

[stoic needle]

has omr ever posted anything of substance in this discord

i don't think so

[balmy condor]

Moving on then

[nimble tartan]

wtf...

im gettin flamed for saying i dont know an opener...

[gloomy knoll]

i shall respect whispyrs wishes

[nimble tartan]

i already flamed myself bro

[gloomy knoll]

how bout that weather today

[bleak sky]

so following this would you go the same build for council?

[limber lion]

Council is not 2T.

Council is ST.

[balmy condor]

No because council is single target

[gloomy knoll]

council is st with more energy return

you could probably make a case for ep deeper there

tbh

[balmy condor]

I agree

[gloomy knoll]

if you play it properly

[balmy condor]

I think EP deeper would be quite good on council

[thorny pond]

Because of energy returns?

[gloomy knoll]

yep

[limber lion]

R1 council

[gloomy knoll]

waiter padding

[stoic needle]

DISHONEST

[gloomy knoll]

i do like 100k waiter damage

on my council kills

lmao

[thorny pond]

What's R1 boss dam?

[gloomy knoll]

such dishonesty

[limber lion]

I... just linked the screenshot

[balmy condor]

Being able to pad waiters as melee on council

Unicorn sighting

[gloomy knoll]

fr xD

[nimble tartan]

hear me out ct on council nobody allowed to touch adds but u