Chad M+ Sin rogue
#assassination
pallid bough
bleak sky
macabre sheet music(200) sims higher than shriekwing trinket (200) for me and I'm so sad
stoic needle
Don't use that garbage
gusty mirage
yeah but fuck the macabre ballsack trinket
bleak sky
trinket feels absolutely horrible
gusty mirage
its kind of one of those trinkets where it seems okay
but in actuality its fucking awful
bleak sky
if they made the minigame less shit it'd be nice
stoic needle
They won't tho
gusty mirage
or you know smarter so they don't spawn in shit on the ground
which they like 80% of the time do
bleak sky
Get thee an iqd
ya let me drop one rq
gusty mirage
chadgrasp totem kinda nice with it though
bleak sky
I really want the pf trinket
gusty mirage
you just gotta run PF like 32 times to get it like me 
I was capped on valor by the time it dropped
balmy condor
And a phial
And rings
And an off piece for death spike zold and doomblade
And new daggers
stoic needle
stoic needle
That'll never drop
What I really want are the sylvanas crit ring and chest and the crit necklace
And then mastery everything else
Then I'll hit 40% crit and start scaling
final star
ruby birch
220 inscrutable or 226 skulk, skulk is simming about 0.4% higher for me rn, but idk if inscrutable sims are reliable
neat tartan
Good afternoon everyone. Is there a talent build suitable for both Mythic+ keys and Raid? Currently I'm using:
Elaborate Planning
Subt
Vigor
Wire
Alacrity
Crimson Tempest
Doom blade with 23% Haste, 23% Crit, 18% Mast
gusty mirage
depends on what your definition of viable is
@stoic needle when you try to find ways to get more crit and mastery out of your gear:
stoic needle
220 inscrutable or 226 skulk, skulk is simming about 0.4% higher for me rn, but ...
inscrutable sims are reliable. are you venthyr?
balmy condor
Good afternoon everyone. Is there a talent build suitable for both Mythic+ keys ...
That’s already technically viable
But obviously the single target is worse
gusty mirage
started out w/ a 990 combos 
stoic needle
Good afternoon everyone. Is there a talent build suitable for both Mythic+ keys ...
there's no reason not to swap talents between raid and mythic +
ebon thorn
Good morning #assassination
dark crag
We got a dagger off the 4th boss
4th boss? After CN we should get it from first
low girder
If only 
ruby birch
inscrutable sims are reliable. are you venthyr?
necro
gusty mirage
tokens? You mean those things that sire denathrius never dropped for my guild?
low girder
gusty mirage
in ANY difficulty?
stoic needle
personally i'd use iqd over skulkers because fuck skulkers
low girder
I know that feel
stoic needle
but technically skulkers sims better so you wouldn't be wrong to take it
dark crag
Is blizz kinda dumb? Why introduce tokens and then scrap it on 2nd raid?
low girder
Idk
neat tartan
That’s already technically viable
I see.. I play that after watching JustRuss. Also watched the interview vid of you and the other Rogue discuss on Marcelian.
The last Tier talent Poison Bomb and CT headache
gusty mirage
personally i'd use iqd over skulkers because fuck skulkers
I fully agree with the second part of this sentence
dark crag
Isn't there even a new faction?
low girder
Hoping it's still early
stoic needle
sin uses the same soulbind for raiding and M+
gusty mirage
because they wanted the covenants to feel more "meaningful"
low girder
But would be very weird to add all the weapons and put them on specific bosses, and then add tokens later
Idk
stoic needle
you can use emeni in m+ if you have a melee heavy group but otherwise bonesmith all day
low girder
Possible but seems unlikely
neat tartan
there's no reason not to swap talents between raid and mythic +
Okay 👍🏻
gusty mirage
so you could get your super cool wood dagger from the night fae and the bloody dagger from the venthyr
with completely different stats because "reasons"
balmy condor
Is blizz kinda dumb? Why introduce tokens and then scrap it on 2nd raid?
“We were trying a new concept meant to bring back some meaningful choice and a feeling of weight. Your covenant giving you a reward after defeating sire denathrius or other bosses in castle nathria should feel like a moment to rejoice with your covenant, a hard fight won. Sadly this experiment didn’t quite work out the way we expected, so tokens won’t be coming back in 9.1, but we’re still considering other options for important drops in future raids”
dark crag
Didn't work?
balmy condor
I see.. I play that after watching JustRuss. Also watched the interview vid of y...
Yeah that row is a mess, thanks for watching though I hope you enjoyed it!
low girder
That's too on the nose of blizzard tone
balmy condor
That's too on the nose of blizzard tone
balmy condor
I read a lot of blue posts
dark crag
I haven't heard from one who doesn't like tokens
cerulean nest
That's too on the nose of blizzard tone
link?
low girder
It's not real lol
cerulean nest
woops meant to reply to the one about the interview
balmy condor
dark crag
What i observed is that tokens seem to drop less than other stuff
balmy condor
woops meant to reply to the one about the interview
low girder
They buffed it later but I haven't seen a boss drop since then
ruby birch
@stoic needle yeah, i just simmed again and inscrutable simmed 3 dps ahead, had the wrong equipment on. Def gonna pick it over skulker's lmao
low girder
So idk if it's different now
cerulean nest
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FggsOgZfIH0
ty ty
dark crag
Raid is full mythic sire trinkets. Tokens were like 4
low girder
Yikes
But like we get royally fucked again with personal only loot
I'm the only rogue in the raid
Daggers are gonna suck
low girder
I'm sure hunters were happy too, although now they get a special one
dawn moat
I’m the only rogue in raid, and we don’t have war/monk. Feel the pain 🙂
low girder
I got benched on our one council kill so
low girder
Sire will die with 220/213s
dark crag
Hunter should have 1 drop from endboss
gloomy knoll
if i got shitty dagger luck i could get a weapon traded from warrior or dh
or like i got my pvp daggers hella early
so i could just give the homies my tokens
low girder
Yeah. As of now there's no tokens, but loot tables are up
wind dune
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FggsOgZfIH0
Actually just finishing this up, during my overnight you nailed it with how assa feels like two different specs on aoe or single target.
low girder
So, rip
gloomy knoll
blizzard always fucking it up smh
dark crag
I want to see the data, if there is any
balmy condor
Actually just finishing this up, during my overnight you nailed it with how assa...
I'm glad you're enjoying it 
neat tartan
Is it normal for assassination spec rogues are being declined for Mythic+?
dark crag
The only downside was you had to port to the cov
gusty mirage
its normal for all dps to be declined for m+
if you want a good laugh, go into LFG start a group for a 14 mists rn and see how many people sign up
low girder
I was being declined for 9s with 1400 io and 225 equipped
neat tartan
its normal for all dps to be declined for m+
Icic. I just back to the game after 5yrs+ and just completed my 1st month of sub hahaha
I tot it was me
low girder
Just happens a lot
gloomy knoll
I was being declined for 9s with 1400 io and 225 equipped
i got kicked from a +2 once when i was 226 and 1900
because a worse rogue applied but he had a tank buddy
gusty mirage
nah its just people can wait a few minutes and get like 20 more people to sign up
gloomy knoll
gusty mirage
so you're competing with people w/ higher ilvl and higher rio score
low girder
Or i guess I'm 1350 but still
gusty mirage
rogue's in a good spot for m+, shroud is invaluable especially for nailing down pride timing in some dungeons
low girder
Unless you're a mage and there isn't currently a mage in that group
gusty mirage
true
low girder
That's pretty much what happens
bleak sky
go mastery stack somewhere else osho
stoic needle
never
bleak sky
but ooze is just as good, right...? 
obtuse ruin
Ok to rephrase that
Is it normal for rogues to be invited and then kicked after they see we are assa?
compact pumice
I've heard about it, I guess it's kinda like booting a feral after you expect them to be Boomkin.
swift dragon
I’m the only rogue in raid, and we don’t have war/monk. Feel the pain 🙂
dropped token last night from heroic denny but cant trade it to my rogue cause its an ilvl upgrade despite all the gear being haste and therefore effectively useless for me
weapon tokens are possibly the single dumbest change they made in this expac
literally the only class that gets any benefit from it is 2 hunter specs because bows rarely drop
swift dragon
?
low girder
sin and sub only use daggers?
we get a huge benefit of a bigger pool of weapon trades, since only rogues can use them
swift dragon
casters use daggers
low girder
those don't swap to agi?
swift dragon
they should
low girder
well they don't, so
balmy condor
they dont
swift dragon
just because they dont doesnt mean they should
low girder
the tokens essentially do that already by being class wide. you share with a mw int weapon
low girder
idk why you think it's not a benefit
compact pumice
idk why they didn't make a token for any class instead of groupings of 3 or whatevr
swift dragon
cause the ilvl soulbound thing is incredibly dumb
low girder
that's not an issue with tokens though lol.
swift dragon
anything with haste on it is utterly useless for monk
yet i cant trade to my rogue who would massively benefit from it cause its a +7 ilvl "upgrade"
compact pumice
Ilevel upgrades are usually good anyway though
low girder
same shit happens with trinkets all the time. it's not an issue with tokens, it's an issue with personal loot
swift dragon
Ilevel upgrades are usually good anyway though
not for all classes
kind talon
shrewd night
Someone trigger filter, dad watches channel for a bit 
honest karma
yet i cant trade to my rogue who would massively benefit from it cause its a +7 ...
To your rogue?
So the issue isnt the tokens, but that its not boe?
swift dragon
the issue is that blizzard are smoothbrains and have decided that ilvl is always an upgrade regardless of stats which is dumb and incorrect
and theyve therfore made tokens soulbound if its an ilvl upgrade
heavy trail
Darn you can't afk in torghast level 3 for 4 hours and come back and resume 🙂
low girder
which wouldn't matter if it wasn't a token because it wouldn't be tradeable anyway
like i said, your problem isn't with tokens
it's with personal loot
swift dragon
my problem is with blizzard being out of touch with how their game works and dumb
honest karma
But you got weapon token on ur monk? But u want the weapon for your rogue?
shrewd night
Loot not being tradeable if its a ilevel upgrade is probably one of the better things for casual guilds. Imagine the pressure of having to trade away actual good gear to someone more liked? Not being able to focus on the perks of "dumb" shit seems to be more of an issue.
swift dragon
playing rogue
swift dragon
Loot not being tradeable if its a ilevel upgrade is probably one of the better t...
what pressure ?
shrewd night
Oh, you dont think social pressure exists?
honest karma
Ahh okay, then i get it
swift dragon
i just wanted to give the weapon to rogue once I saw the stats were garbage for me
swift dragon
Oh, you dont think social pressure exists?
not unless your progging mythic
swift dragon
in which case you should be funneling gear to whoever its the biggest upgrade for
honest karma
There is alot of guilds who force you to give away loot to "core" members
compact pumice
Trials would trade away all gear until members 
honest karma
Despite it being less of an upgrade, cause they know eachother irl etc.
shrewd night
Nice to see you read my entire sentence and manage to put yourself into situations
swift dragon
Despite it being less of an upgrade, cause they know eachother irl etc.
if youre in a shit guild that prioritizes sucking each other off over whos the better player, leave
I did
game has been a much better experience since
honest karma
Remove the soulbound if upgrade would be nice for a set roster progging mythic, but if Ur a recruit i wouldn't get gear
honest karma
if youre in a shit guild that prioritizes sucking each other off over whos the b...
Yes and get into the next guild who is doing the same shit
gusty mirage
every guild does it
compact pumice
Also it sucks if you genuinely can get it as an upgrade but it gets traded some some scrub who barely plays outside raiding where it's a 20 ilevel ugprade for
kind talon
Idk wtf you mean by people sucking each other off over who’s the better player
honest karma
Yes, had issues with a tank that did only raidlog and got 2-3 pieces from some boss kills
balmy condor
@shrewd night having fun yet
shrewd night
Besides, isnt this conversation about weapons? In what world isnt a straight 7 ilevel weapon upgrade good for a melee class?
For mainhand anyways
compact pumice
Poxstorm I guess
shrewd night
We in sin channel tho
low girder
reasonably sure poxstorm loses to sire weapons anyway
swift dragon
every guild does it
no they dont lmao
honest karma
Yes i think that is upgrade even with the worst stats, but if u dont get ur bis piece blizzard sucks
swift dragon
as proof of my current guild not depsite being a better guild than my old one
swift dragon
Besides, isnt this conversation about _weapons_? In what world isnt a straight 7...
monk
shrewd night
???
swift dragon
and blizzard being completely unable to balance the class
shrewd night
So, you are telling me that if I go to monk discord, I will read that stats on weapons is far better than ilevel? Is that what you are saying?
compact pumice
reasonably sure poxstorm loses to sire weapons anyway
Quite sure 226 Pox is definitely bis offhand at least, for OL
swift dragon
So, you are telling me that if I go to monk discord, I will read that stats on w...
not far better
but
honest karma
Upgrade is still upgrade man
swift dragon
when its only a 7 ilvl boost with haste as a main stat
shrewd night
Alright, brb, if you lead me down a goosechase of misinformation, Im giving you a hard slap.
swift dragon
its not a dps gain
honest karma
U cant expect to get a huge upgrade from every piece u get
swift dragon
where as if I were to trade it to my monk
rogue* sorry
its not only a 23 ilvl upgrade for him but its also haste which is his best stat
honest karma
Think if it this way, next week u can give him the weapon if it drops :)
kind talon
Bro I think the issue is about personal loot not weapon tokens though
As other people have said
swift dragon
Think if it this way, next week u can give him the weapon if it drops :)
yeah of course, grouped weapon toekns are just dumb
honest karma
But how is that the issue here?
kind talon
Idk why the issue is grouped weapon tokens????
swift dragon
my issue is not personal loot
shrewd night
dw, if it was ungrouped weapons you wouldnt be able to trade him at all since monks cant use daggers
kind talon
If it was a fucking dagger it would be unable to drop for you in the first place
swift dragon
Idk why the issue is grouped weapon tokens????
because theyre a dumb system
honest karma
So if it werent token, but u got say a fist weapon, how would that be different??
swift dragon
If it was a fucking dagger it would be unable to drop for you in the first place
exactly
so my rogue would have a better chance of getting an upgrade instead of being wasted on me
kind talon
No
low girder
Quite sure 226 Pox is definitely bis offhand at least, for OL
hmm, ended up being like 12 dps between the two for me. not a huge gap i guess, but you're right.
kind talon
He has an equal chance of getting an upgrade as he does now
compact pumice
If it's personal loot the only ones a sin rogue would be able to trade with for loot is other rogues so... it would literally be the worst for us since we are the only one's who use daggers
swift dragon
You keep saying "my rogue" and using words you dont mean
i am dumb
this is sperate issue
swift dragon
If it's personal loot the only ones a sin rogue would be able to trade with for ...
casters use daggers
and ik they dont switch to agi
but they should
low girder
yes, like 2-3 of them
pliant apex
Had my log analysed , thanks. I’m confused on the adds situation with inerva , multiple people saying multiple things, should I dot them? Or just focus inerva and let other classes kill them? Also agility pots over phantom on all bosses? And stones over oil?
kind talon
Yeah but it’s a separate issue
low girder
it's the same fucking thing as having tokens
swift dragon
how is it the same thing ?
pliant apex
@kind talon hey thanks for analysing it but I’m confused
kind talon
<@!170031192400199681> hey thanks for analysing it but I’m confused
Dm me
About your logs
compact pumice
how is it the same thing ?
Because a mage might not want it because it's using versatility as main stat and your rogue might get a 20 ilevel upgrade but he can't trade because its 7 ilevel upgrade for him and sims worse
compact pumice
BUT ITS THE SAME THING EVEN WITHOUT WEAPON TOKENS (sorry for shouting, got a bit flustered)
low girder
finally
gloomy knoll
honest karma
Hahah shiiet
shrewd night
wha-
swift dragon
this also might be a hot take but
honest karma
The personal loot is abit annoying at times, but id rather have that than maniac raid leaders who would fuck over anyone except the ones he likes the most
swift dragon
raid gear drops ( and great vault) should have choosable stats
honest karma
Reforging would be nice yes
swift dragon
esepcialyl if theyre just gonna halve the gear drops
shrewd night
Did you sim with an enchant?
swift dragon
yes
shrewd night
Show sim.
shrewd night
Dw, link me you char and Ill do it for you
swift dragon
?
swift dragon
literally what im saying
the problem with monks is haste is completely useless unless its above 50%
stoic needle
What happens at 50%
gloomy knoll
more blackout cdr i think
honest karma
U get alot of it
gloomy knoll
changes up the rotation slightly
swift dragon
U get alot of it
literally this
compact pumice
Rotation changes at a lot of haste breakpoints though
swift dragon
wait re you dumb
gloomy knoll
uh oh
gloomy knoll
tempting the gods 
swift dragon
my smoothbrain is contagious
gloomy knoll
MAY THE UNWORTHY BE SMITTEN
swift dragon
gloomy knoll
xD
stoic needle
swift dragon
smoothbrain via osmosis
shrewd night
And screenshot what I said, and what you said
balmy condor
swift dragon
go ahead
shrewd night
stoic needle
<a:uwuPopcorn:470972109737164822>
You're going to get fat eating all of that popcorn
shrewd night
balmy condor
You're going to get fat eating all of that popcorn
man this channel is a fucking disaster lately
gloomy knoll
popcorn actually has very low calorie count
most of it comes from the buttor
it's a very healthy snack 🙂 just watch the salt
shrewd night
I swear
If this fucking sim comes back
With more than 2 dps upgrade
Im going to curbstomp someone into the next century
gloomy knoll
honest karma
Haha ive seen Channels go abit off track, but this? Monk weapons and popcorn
swift dragon
low girder
Im going to curbstomp someone into the next century
not it
gloomy knoll
i learned that from alton brown when i was a kid
solar flicker
still better than the outlaw channel
swift dragon
Haha ive seen Channels go abit off track, but this? Monk weapons and popcorn
wait till you see the bagged milk in the enhance shammy discord
honest karma
wait till you see the bagged milk in the enhance shammy discord
I think ill stay away from there 😂
stoic needle
i love alton brown
Good eats was the best show
kind talon
Quick question
stoic needle
Im going to curbstomp someone into the next century
gloomy knoll
fun and informative
kind talon
Is it a dps loss to sync niya mastery proc from sepsis with vendetta
kind talon
1:30
balmy condor
same as flag, only sync ifg you won't miss a cast
gloomy knoll
you just blast on cd
kind talon
Same as flag
stoic needle
It's the same as flag
gloomy knoll
if you won't miss a cast line the last one up
stoic needle
Fuck that syncing nonsense imo
kind talon
Okay got it
gloomy knoll
eh just gotta watch fight times
like on huntsman for instance you only get 2 vendettas 2 flags
no reason to make them not sync and use them in execute
doesn't hurt to hold there
kind talon
Yeppers
balmy condor
curb incoming
kind talon
north basin
Guys, did 7500 dps on sludge hc, without dh and ench shama, for how much my dps would ramp up approximatly with them present?
compact pumice
With more than 2 dps upgrade
I know he talked about haste being a bad stat specifically but... with the weapon tokens you can trade for several items as a monk, with different stats on them. One does not have haste on it (mace, sword, axe or fisties) on each tier afaik.
balmy condor
Guys, did 7500 dps on sludge hc, without dh and ench shama, for how much my dps ...
depends on how much damage was magic and autos
stoic needle
Its a 30 dps upgrade
compact pumice
It's worse for rogue since it's only one dagger
swift dragon
Its a 30 dps upgrade
shrewd night
I know he talked about haste being a bad stat specifically but... with the weapo...
Its sorta dumb really, I should be able to do the same as shaman, but can only trade tokens into axe
north basin
All my poisons counts as magic ye?
gloomy knoll
balmy condor
All my poisons counts as magic ye?
and envenom
anything that isn't phys damage
so all the nature stuff counts
low girder
garrote, rupture, and autos i think the only phys parts. unless i'm forgetting one
balmy condor
mut is phys
balmy condor
ambush as well
balmy condor
flag is magic
stoic needle
Tiny toxic blade 
compact pumice
Is poisoned knife magic?
low girder
it just auto procs poison
swift dragon
do bleeds count as phys ?
balmy condor
yes
compact pumice
Since it would be nice to have any CP builder go through BOP
right now it's only if you have CP left to Envenom through BoP
compact pumice
Vanilla/Classic only afaik. Think they made it physical in TBC
compact pumice
at least it's not as easy to dispel it in pvp now
balmy condor
not really
balmy condor
no
stoic needle
No
swift dragon
oh
vital tapir
Why would you?
balmy condor
because physical damage is not melee hits
swift dragon
useless knowledge then
balmy condor
bleeds ignore armor
if you care for that
so find weakness on sub does nothing for rupture
compact pumice
You could dodge the application of a bleed
swift dragon
imagine playing sub lmao
north basin
Flaggelation also count as magic i guess. What about trinket from plague dung?
swift dragon
i feel bad for sub players tbh every time blizz gets them hyped in beta and then cucks them because we cant possibly have a melee class have the best funnel
gloomy knoll
imagine playing sub lmao
you shut your filthy mouth
low girder
i like how once becomes every time
kind talon
Question
low girder
spec abandonment isn't really new, ask the demo warlocks
balmy condor
Flaggelation also count as magic i guess. What about trinket from plague dung?
it's magic damage but I'm unsure if it's actually buffed by dh
I would assume not
north basin
So about 44% of my damage comes from magic, so if i do 7500k on sludge, with dh it would be something like 2.2% increase?
kind talon
Why are there three sbs?
shrewd night
Id take the spec opinions of someone who cant sim properly with a grain of salt 
balmy condor
Why are there three sbs?
one for the instant, one for the dot, one for sbs
the conduit
whatever it's called
balmy condor
So about 44% of my damage comes from magic, so if i do 7500k on sludge, with dh ...
yeah around there is probably accurate
shrewd night
WFT does close to nothing to sin aside from extra poison hits but thats super low
north basin
Ok
Too bad people dont play ench shamans.. nor in the guild runs neither in pugs..
So we are like constantly gimped by 2.5% (
shrewd night
vital tapir
What.
swift dragon
you shut your filthy mouth
I like it when youre mean to me
compact pumice
I think actually all raid buffs simmed very close to each other for me for assassination, but I think from best to worse: Warrior > Monk > Enh Shaman = DH
But it was surprisingly close
swift dragon
WFT is vastly better for some classes than it is others
Arms warrior get 7-10% dps boost with it
pretty hilarious
balmy condor
damage done and casts both have it
compact pumice
set yourself as target, debuffs, set it on cast by friendly
balmy condor
not really
kind talon
Not anywhere near 10 muts?
solar flicker
feels like a lot imo
kind talon
Idk I’m just comparing logs and wondering why ep vigor has 10 less mut casts and only 2 more envenoms than me
compact pumice
I have no reference point. You could quick sim with and without PI and check the damage breakdown?
kind talon
But I’m prettt sure it’s just dotting the adds on inerva
For reference I played ep DS
gloomy knoll
crit rng
gloomy knoll
vital tapir
Yeah
swift dragon
<#124169701881282560> <
I like it when you correct me too
gloomy knoll
hold on
azure sphinx
Hi guys. I'm a 205 ilvl rogue and obviously still gearing up, doing some mythic bosses with guild but no progress yet. They're 6/10 atm. Knowing the situation, which leg would you upgrade ? I currently have 190 doomblade and zoldyck. Ty !
compact pumice
Doomblade first
balmy condor
doomblade if you're raiding
azure sphinx
I do some 15 too tho. same answer ?
swift dragon
zoldyck for prog
for mythic and raid zoldyck\
doomblade drops off hard past 1 target
vital tapir
vital tapir
Ye
swift dragon
execute is really important for prog on quite a few bosses
swift dragon
Huntsman, artificer, innerva, sludge, SLG and sire
balmy condor
low girder
literally none of those are useful for zoldyck except sire
especially sludge
you're inting your raid
balmy condor
yes
low girder
you get 2 vendettas in p3, one right at the start and another around ~10%
swift dragon
zoldyck is the better all rounder if youre also going to do dungeons
low girder
that at least i can agree with
balmy condor
the first thing you've said that isn't trash
swift dragon
and tbf i cba to do any more torghast than is strictly necessary to get a 210
balmy condor
azure sphinx
Ty guys !
shrewd night
Wait, zoldyck is good for slg prog? Wonder what godlike dps you can do for the 30 seconds the boss is actually under execute percentage 
balmy condor
Wait, zoldyck is good for slg prog? Wonder what godlike dps you can do for the 3...
imagine the shield damage though
muy largo damagio
shrewd night
The 1 second execute damage bleeds 
vital tapir
You gon do 5 dps more to the Shields?
shrewd night
<:wide:585741988046045204> <:peepo:585741987798581268> <:happy:58574198759279820...
Are you confidentally wrong about shit every day or is this just monday to you oldname?
swift dragon
yes
balmy condor
? aight I think you might be lost, let me go over some basics for you @swift dragon. This is a rogue discord, and this channel is for assassination conversations. If you don't know something, that's okay, but please don't say something that's blatantly false just to have said something, that makes you, as we say, a dipshit
hope it helps
vital tapir
^
uneven summit
Zoldyck is fine for SLG Imo, due to the extensive dots and breaking of shields etc. I know we´re not the main dmg on shields or skirmishers, but zoldyck helps at least
swift dragon
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/26#boss=2399&class=Rogue&spec=Assassi...
I said it was good for prog
shrewd night
But.. It aint.
swift dragon
doomblade beats it on damage
fickle trout
Prog = u want to kill; u want to kill = u want the best dps
balmy condor
I said it was good for prog
please refer to the above post
fickle trout
easy as that
gusty mirage
beat another fire mage boys
swift dragon
pog
swift dragon
people who play fire post legion are actual cucks
subtle tundra
???
vital tapir
?
shrewd night
Aight, let me type this out.
verbal mantle
vital tapir
The actual fuck are you on about?
shrewd night
!mute @swift dragon 240m Calm the edge. Dont spread misinformation. Thanks.
final star
rigid mango
shrewd night
Muting someone so you dont break rules yourselves. 
rigid mango
I'm here more often than you think 
balmy condor
4 hours? man I'll have reading to do when I wake up I guess
rigid mango
Self-preservation lets call it that.
balmy condor
gusty mirage
wild things happen here between 3-5am
shrewd night
You got me on speeddial if shit hits the fan whisp
balmy condor
You got me on speeddial if shit hits the fan whisp <:koffHeart:74300904584118273...
the point is it'll be 5:30am, I won't be up
gusty mirage
but the blades are always watching 
balmy condor
hollow venture
I mean it is the perfect discord for them to be lurking and waiting for the chance to strike
normal mist
This is the best part of Monday mornings
Nothing like a good arguing, people getting muted, shots left and right, man will someone get banned today ?? 
(Jk don't ban me)
stable moss
im in a pickle idk what spec to run we just downed SLG and i am about to start prog on Denathrus tomorrow what spec should i run to get through learnign the fight and what not
errant viper
In a ST environment, what’s the optimal use of Serrared Bone Spike? I’m guessing keep DoT on target and use it when you’re at 4 CP and don’t want to waste Mutilate’s 2 CP generation? Guides say to not let it reach 3 charges, I’m guessing that doesn’t strictly apply to ST, correct?
fathom swift
im pretty skeptical zoldycks is actually better for denath, even just p3
shrewd night
No reason to be skeptical, it just is.
Just prep to get flamed while you prog the other phases
fathom swift
dw i killed it a long time ago
low girder
can't get flamed if you get asked to run it 
fathom swift
i tried both a few times
and my p3 damage isnt meaningfully different, or doomblade is higher if it is
obv small sample size etc. but
it also doesnt sim a large difference at a ~3 min 40% hp start sim
fathom swift
yeah
and p3 dps check is so free now idk if its worth basically having no legendary for the second phase
and you dont get any zoldycks value for your first p3 vendetta
shrewd night
and p3 dps check is so free
idk man, coming from someone that is in a guild having issues with p1 dps check - I feel having that 250dps is going to save us 100 wipes in p3
low girder
fathom swift
we can do p3 with 2 people dead the entire time and still make it easy
fathom swift
you play enh or play with an enh?
stark geode
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
shrewd night
I play enh
river quarry
what should i do if i have max CP and shiv off CD? use finisher 'cause CP overcap is bad or shiv has more priority?
ruby birch
shiv
if you hold shiv, you're going to have to wait to get more CP again to not waste duration on shiv anyways, which means you're holding it for even longer. That's worse than overcapping by 1 CP
river quarry
gotcha. same thing for garrote?
balmy condor
garrote shouldn't ever be a waste because you can just play around pandemic
river quarry
kk, thanks
kind talon
whispyr whats optimal sepsis usage on opener
river quarry
one more noob question.
should i use finisher on 2-3 CP when flagellation stacking is about to end? does 2-3% of haste for next 12 sec worth weak envenom/rapture?
low girder
one more noob question.
should i use finisher on 2-3 CP when flagellation stacki...
it's not worth. just build and finish as normal.
kind talon
mata do u know 😮
low girder
before shiv
pliant apex
I’ve heard to wait after sepsis like 8 secs? And then vanish, but idk I’m confused and probably doing it wrong.
Also this makes sepsis really hard to play , not fun at all. Is venthyr ability easier ?
low girder
not really. and i'm not sure what the reasoning of that is, maybe getting the burst to hit during the MA window in vanish. i swapped to venthyr before i starting playing sin in this patch
compact pumice
I’ve heard to wait after sepsis like 8 secs? And then vanish, but idk I’m confus...
The point is to have the last hit of sepsis inside the MA window yes.
pliant apex
Can you please elaborate how to do it right.
low girder
you just vanish so that the 3s MA window is while sepsis expires
pliant apex
do I need to get an envenom on that MA window? Coz it’s hard sometimes
compact pumice
Sepsis duration - How long duration your MA is (3 from talent 4 from legendary) = How long you wait
kind talon
yes
compact pumice
do I need to get an envenom on that MA window? Coz it’s hard sometimes
Ideally yes
compact pumice
But as long as you don't have to refresh rupture in that window then you should get one either way, Mut mut env or Env mut Env or Env mut mut
compact pumice
So I vanish 7-8 secs after casting vanish
I would have to look up duration of sepsis. Did you understand the equation I linked above?
compact pumice
So if Sepsis is 10 seconds, on the last hit it will hit bigger, so ideally you want to both have shiv active and MA active for it.
10 seconds - duration of MA window, lets just assume you're using the MA talent, is 3 seconds
So you wait 7 seconds and then Vanish
pliant apex
What if I finish prev env at 5 and it becomes 9 sec instead 7?
5cp I mean
That happens a lot to me
compact pumice
wait what
low girder
i'm not really sure what you mean by the second part
compact pumice
How can 9 sec become 7?
low girder
what becomes 9s
pliant apex
The wait duration
quasi ledge
I think you're thinking of Envenom buff instead of Sepsis
quasi ledge
As long as you vanish before Sepsis ends, you're fine. Doesn't matter if it's 7 seconds or 9
pliant apex
I start , vendetta-sep-shiv- mut- env- then build 5cp for envenom before vanishing
Sometimes that means vanishing after 7 secs since rng on CP
Or sometimes 9
compact pumice
As long as you vanish before Sepsis ends, you're fine. Doesn't matter if it's 7...
Technically you want as many dots ticking as possible so it's a very minor gain to get maximum amount of sepsis ticks into the window as possible
compact pumice
I start , vendetta-sep-shiv- mut- env- then build 5cp for envenom before vanishi...
You can vanish with 0 CP.
kind talon
the most important part is the last tick right
pliant apex
As long as you vanish before Sepsis ends, you're fine. Doesn't matter if it's 7...
Ahh ic.
compact pumice
The only difference is what happens inside the MA window then
kind talon
meh anno i wouldnt vanish with 0 cp playing DS
pliant apex
Hmm
compact pumice
with 0 CP you Mut Mut Env (with DS, without DS you might Mut Env Mut)
kind talon
personally
kind talon
if i get cucked and get a 4cp envenom
compact pumice
You still need to do two muts and an envenom
Whatever you do
So how many CP you have when you vanish doesn't matter
pliant apex
Does this make nf ability most complicated to use? I mean it’s not easy tbh
Is venthyr easier ?
compact pumice
if i get cucked and get a 4cp envenom
Well this is very unfortunate
But
It doesn't really matter, the envenom can not crit too and you have "wasted" the MA. It still makes for about the same dps using muts or envenoms in the MA
kind talon
i know
i agree
but with DS i like to vanish with 1 or 2 cp
at min
to guarantee finishing at max -1
with vigor you always do
pliant apex
Would you guys agree this makes NF hardest ability to play?
compact pumice
But what you like to do is not really a good advice to give someone else as a tip if it's not an actual increase in dps
quasi ledge
No
pliant apex
Will life be easier with venthyr
balmy condor
Would you guys agree this makes NF hardest ability to play?
nf is often recommended due to its ease of use
honest karma
I guess u could try it out and see how you like it tbh
pliant apex
But whisp this wait with vanish ability doesn’t seem easy at all, is it just me ?
balmy condor
Yeah that’s just you
quasi ledge
This is generally very small DPS increases. If you're having trouble understanding or playing it, then just press Sepsis on CD and ignore trying to line Vanish up with the end tick
pliant apex
Oh alright ty
quasi ledge
If you're having trouble with that, then Venthyr won't be easier
honest karma
Make a wa and practice and you wont have to think too much about the wait
pliant apex
Ahhh ic
compact pumice
how is it not an increase in dps tho
Because needing to Mut 3 times during MA window is so rare that the average DPS comes out to the same or better following the rules we just talked about
Adding additional rules might make you delay vanish unneccesarily
low girder
it's also literally impossible on the opener if you run crit IQD
compact pumice
And then you might do worse DPS than the bot
kind talon
fair
makes sense that if they read what i say they might delay unnecessarily
so its prolly best just to say vanish after shiv ig
in vendetta window
kind talon
MA with gemstone is really nice tho 😄
compact pumice
I mean you're fair to sim it and if your rule prove to be better than without you just ping the TC dudes and state your case
kind talon
oh yeah anno i use sbs during MA buff actually
thats why
i do it my way
because its max 3 cp not 4
compact pumice
is MA SBS actually better value than MA Mut though?
I'm not sure since I'm venthyr (still 
)
kind talon
sbs does more dmg but applies poisons less so probably not tbh
i think im just pepegaing it
compact pumice
Mut gains so much with the extra CP and poison procs
compact pumice
I mean it's only a small part of Shiv window anyway so maybe just use SBS after the Vanish window
for energy purposes
Since it's such an efficient builder
kind talon
sim says
use sbs to build rupture before vendetta on opener
makes more sense, because gemstone buff is active
compact pumice
yeah that's the most energy starved you are in the opener
kind talon
i think im not optimizing and fucking everything up
my thought process was "more tooltip dmg"
compact pumice
From an outsider's perspective it seems using SBS when you need CP quick while you don't have much energy is optimal.
compact pumice
Yeah big crits feel good for sure. That's why most people overvalue Envenom tbh
kind talon
to really optimize it
compact pumice
Because envenom is most of our damage (in single target) but a rupture is like... WAY more dps
compact pumice
Rupture is more dps, damage per energy and damage per CP.
Though if the mob dies to one evenom it's less DPS.
kind talon
like idk how you compare the dps
damage per energy of course
its out most efficient damaging ability, but its a bleed
so you can get multiple envenoms off in the time of one rupture
ruby birch
Snd is actually more efficient
RTB that cost cp is more efficient
kind talon
ruby birch
More buffs more efficiency 
compact pumice
like idk how you compare the dps
Yeah it's a bit scuffed to compare it since it depends on the mobs surviving long enough, but if you have the option to rupture or envenom and the mob doesn't have bleeds up, the answer is more often than not to Rupture before Envenom. If the mob literally dies in less than 2 seconds then it's not worth discussing how to dps it anyway
kind talon
Yeah it's a bit scuffed to compare it since it depends on the mobs surviving lon...
yeah of course rupturing before envenom
compact pumice
unless you have 8 of those then the right choice is CT anyway
kind talon
CT is cracked
but the reason why you rupture before envenom has nothing to do with which ability does more dps
its just because a bleed does no dps if its not on the enemy
compact pumice
Snd is actually more efficient
I mean it has pretty much the potential of unlimited efficiency since it gets refreshed as long as you are fighting in your normal rotation!
kind talon
i mean yeah snd is literally just 50% attackspeed for infinite duration
balmy condor
Even without cttc
compact pumice
You keep up SND for AoE too
balmy condor
Yeh
You toss out envenoms in aoe to maintain cttc
On like 10 target sustained aoe, you envenom for cttc, or when things start dying
Otherwise it’s bleed city
compact pumice
Even with the NS MFD CT spec the bot uses MFD for SND before combat at the start
kind talon
yeah of course with mfd you snd
compact pumice
Well with NS the point is to do a 5cp CT from stealth though
kind talon
but for opening with subterfuge on a pack is your first finisher gonna be snd always?
i thought you went rupture to fok fok ct
i actually dont know
compact pumice
First pack of the instance you SND, for the rest of them you should have kept it up kind of, if it drops again or you need to mount for a long while make sure you keep some CPs from the previous pack so you can SND before
Then it doesn't affect your opener
kind talon
ahhh
got it
ty
❤️
i might try to play assa in m+ hehe
ive been infected by oshosi
compact pumice
np!
I have much more fun playing Assa in dungeons tbh
but it feels like I do less damage
So I skip it for higher keys
but for the weekly 15s and shit I go assa usually
subtle tundra
i feel like i do more damage as assa, but thats probably cause im bad at outlaw
compact pumice
I mean it's possible if you pull very favorably for Assa
But normal routes are kinda better for OL
So I'd guess you could practice OL a bit more then
subtle tundra
So I'd guess you could practice OL a bit more then
no i cant i've done 200+ m+ this expansion
as outlaw
compact pumice
ToP Tyrannical is one of the ones where much of the DPS is from bosses or huge mobs. Assa does fairly well on that tbh
compact pumice
no i cant i've done 200+ m+ this expansion
I mean, playing with a focus and intent to improve and just playing are two different things. If you look at problems in your rotation or how you play and then try to fix them I'm sure you'll improve even if you have played the same for a long time.
compact pumice
If you do well in AOE as Assa then I bet you still have the capacity to do well with Outlaw since Assa AoE is even harder to optimise and min/max.
compact pumice
Ofc, but seeing as you thing of yourself as bad then you must see something you can improve on. Might be fun to try to do it, seeing as you're aware of it.
The problem comes when people say "I am not doing anything wrong but I still parse gray"
What I say is the best way to see how bad you play is to record yourself and watch it back. Most people find a lot of errors in their play when they see themselves playing from an outside perspective kind of.
subtle tundra
yea, i noticed when i watched some assa things i did
like holding shiv 1-2 gcds sometimes for no reason
subtle tundra
yes
subtle tundra
maybe its during bl
and he is figuring out the math
if he has 3 cp does he envenom or mut???
compact pumice
You should yeah, unless you have blindside and no energy for another Mut before MA runs out I guess (bad info)
Well I say you should, but I just think so
kind talon
interesting
limber lion
Even if you can afford another Muti
Because every Muti you do, you pretty much do 20% of Ambush' damage as well because of Blindside.
kind talon
do you always ambush when you proc
limber lion
But if you use Muti during Blindside, you lose the chance to proc a blindside with that mutilate.
limber lion
do you always ambush when you proc
Yes.
compact pumice
well
You still use finishers between
but you never Muti when you have Blindside procced at least
limber lion
All the normal rules apply
tidal vine
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
tidal vine
Guys i just wanted to ask, wich covenant if i switch specs. In raid im playing assa and in M+ im playing outlaw, wich one is best overall ?
vital tapir
Necro seems to be a good overall
tidal vine
i thought so but i wasnt sure
sonic schooner
definitely necro, allow u to play pvp as well if wanted so
deft fractal
if the 9.1 covenant leggy stays like that --> go necro. i swapped to necro from venthyr on saturday and already got to renown 26. i play assa in cn and in m+. the swap brought so much quality of life (and dps in m+)for me as a casual player.
tidal vine
okey, ill swap nerco today 😄 thanks guys
deft fractal
Venthyr good too
forgot to mention that^^ as rogues we r in a good position compared to other classes
thorny pond
compact pumice
Must be annoying to level so many mission tables too
halcyon lynx
And from the feels, nothing beats throwing bone spear at some enemy ❤️
deft fractal
xD#
compact pumice
Ye but first 30 levels is just meh in terms of reward
and the anima grind is real
compact pumice
More than 1k for "max" level tbh
final star
Depends how many you get but it's self sustaining either way
Venture plan makes it trivial
swift dragon
im back lads
shrewd night
Lets see for how long this time 
swift dragon
final star
🙄
deft fractal
just block him ...easy
heavy trail
darn felt good dunking on a 215 there at 202, and well managed to +2 my 11 key first one ever lol....
spice spire
Grats homie - many more to come
final star
I've done more dps on my 200 shaman than a 221 aff lock
He is categorically the worst warlock I've ever seen
He finished a +15 on 2.4k overall dps
heavy trail
They can do well in higher keys
quasi ledge
Not 2.4k garbage
heavy trail
I did more than 2.4 k dps on my 187 lock
swift dragon
dont expect big aoe from them
heavy trail
on lowr keys everything iis dead before you can ramp lol
spice spire
I’d expect more than 2.4 though
silent stratus
For certain keys and depending on damage profile, they can shine. I played with an affli lock that constantly was 7k+ dps overall
swift dragon
theyre the sin rogues of ranged
swift dragon
For certain keys and depending on damage profile, they can shine. I played with ...
he probably respecd from destro after BFA and doesnt understand why he cant just press chaos bolt and win
final star
Aff locks are not garbage lol
heavy trail
that's one of the reasons I like it. in PVE i find both affliction and ass alluring as well as feral as they all can be compared a bit with variables
shrewd night
I could have sworn we were in sin channel, rope it back to relevant topics or move over to wow-gen
heavy trail
umm comparing ass to other specs is a big deal ?
final star
I wasn't 😅😂
shrewd night
I must be blind then, because I see little discussion of sin, but mostly differing opinions on whether or not aff can be good in keys
heavy trail
Ill be quiet cuz I don't want to get booted... lol
final star
odd hazel
i can link yall to the lock disc if you need
rather you beat a certain class is not really relevant because every outcome is different then what sims might say.
heavy trail
@odd hazel K. Thanks. No thanks 🙂
odd hazel
<@!174732908689489920> K. Thanks. No thanks 🙂
i mean, if you really want to be honest. out of all specs we are talking about why is it affliction? lol
shrewd night
If anything, it should be more exciting beating fire mages as sin, but yaknow
final star
shrewd night
Opinions schmopinions
heavy trail
@odd hazel Let's talk about them over in the warlock discord if you want I can link it 🙂 ?
odd hazel
im in every class discord fam, lets do it lol
odd hazel
On average you can top the meter as rogue in any +15 pug
yeah, never really felt like iw as struggling compared to any certain class.
heavy trail
But I might get in trouble there for talking about rogues. The stress is unbearable!
swift dragon
If anything, it should be more exciting beating fire mages as sin, but yaknow
not on ST
should be more exciting beating spriests/ aff locks
sin already beats fire on pure ST
shrewd night
So in the context of keys, which key is singletarget?
hollow escarp
ToP
final star
What if I told you you're beating the player and not the class
odd hazel
didn't realize keys were ST
final star
swift dragon
didnt realize we were still talking about keys
hollow escarp
What if I told you you're beating the player and not the class
well, that's always the case
shrewd night
I know we memed on autoattakk alot, but wew
final star
I'm pretty sure a competent player could play spec x and beat spec y lol
Pointless comparison
odd hazel
its not like aff/spirest are unbeatable
odd hazel
swift dragon
<a:Revenge:696499619240083456>
that looks supicously phallic
final star
It's an arm
hollow escarp
Alinity's arm
final star
