assassination

[plain thistle]

if using CT you will use it even in CT, but in CT you dont use if inside shiv windows, otherwise you maintain

[astral mirage]

I'm assuming FOK is still the combo builder for this?

[plain thistle]

yes, fok 4+ targets

[astral mirage]

oh, ok 4+ ..ive not been for 4 only 5. interesting

[astral mirage]

so CT at max CP regardless of it its on them or not?

[bleak sun]

Hey boys anyone having issue with stealth on SD ? the pack with 3big guys after 3rd boss

[plain thistle]

CT on max-1 like any finisher, but you just maintain the dot, dont spam

[astral mirage]

kk. thank you. same for less than 4 as well?

well say 3-4

[plain thistle]

yup

[astral mirage]

i never do with 1 or 2.

right. ok. some new stuff to try. thank you!

[quiet valley]

Havent pulled that pack since M0. But no issues outside of that. Well, you cant stealth when someone enters the gauntlet so that might be the issue?

[heavy trail]

@plain thistle I guess lets say on a low key before the 1st boss....all those ads are generally dead in seconds i guess its ok to spam some CT then if they will barely live for a few seconds? I understand that the damage probably is meaninglessness for anything other than parses

[plain thistle]

in that case I would just open normally with dots for energy and spam envenom, dont think its worth to spam CT

CT spam was a thing last expansion, not so much right now

[hollow escarp]

I wonder if these 2 guys forgot to swap back to Nadjia

[heavy trail]

and on run 25 A dh GAVE ME a phial 🙂

now to just start pushing keys and upgrade my phil and shadowgrasp or contiue trying to farm for IQD also. I will probably run out of valor. Also have a 210 decantor to play with for now

[frosty anchor]

I had this problem in a 17 earlier. I’ve now loaded up on invis pots as it’s probs the gauntlet doing something to regular ‘stealth’ whilst other party member are ahead of you

[heavy trail]

I noticed that as well when I did some D a few days ago

is there a way to change ilevel on raidbots of say a trinket to be higher ?

[plain thistle]

gear compare, select the trinket and set the ilvl

and after raidbots completes the simulation you can "copy" that and use that to sim other things

[heavy trail]

ok thanks

[plain thistle]

to copy

[radiant fossil]

+1

[stoic needle]

Get that iqd sir

[polar cape]

Its a good week to farm it <.<

[heavy trail]

I did 40 plus DOS so far and got a phial on my 25h PF so a bit blurry eyed atm lol

[stoic needle]

It'll be the 41st

[heavy trail]

Got lucky and some DH already had it and gave me it since I have no luck 🙂

[plain thistle]

huge upgrade

[sand gyro]

Ideal trinkets IQD and Phial?

[heavy trail]

So like I have a /use [@target, nostealth] 14 macro but it still seems to use the mana or heal thing from iQD. Is there anyway to avoid it using those or is dem da breaks or am I doing something wrong. (I have a lower level iQD from heroic dungeon)

[plain thistle]

make sure no one is low health and your healer has mana, you can also use without a target to avoid using the execute

[stoic needle]

You should get the weakaura so that you know what effect you'll get

[stoic needle]

Yes

[plain thistle]

I would say phial and dreadfire, but people really like IQD

[stoic needle]

Not everyone really has access to a 233 dreadfire

And if you're venthyr iqd is better

[heavy trail]

Yeah I got the WA just wanted to make sure wasn't messing anything up

[mighty owl]

226 skulkers is better than 220 iqd for me at least

[heavy trail]

the 207 (after i gear compared) sims about -6 dps in dungeon slice compared to my 210 decanter so will keep that for now i suppose

[stoic needle]

226 skulker's is over a 30 dps loss from 220 iqd for my profile

Skulker's isn't very good for sin

[mighty owl]

I’m also necro, but it’s just profile dependent seemingly

[heavy trail]

don't think im gonna get a skulker's of that ilevel being a scrub and guildless loner either so 🙂

[stoic needle]

You can pug shriekwing mythic easy

[compact pumice]

IQD simmed better than a 233 Dreadfire for 5 min, though 6min it was the opposite (absolute worst case for an IQD though exactly 6 min). Was very close though, and a 220 IQD wins over Skulker's. Considering how often skulker's can either straight up kill you or hit a spiteful for the whole amount instead I probably should get to farming DOS more...

[odd heath]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fcJGEiVhryFKti6HdkDGQr

Not an upgrade for me

[stoic needle]

You need to change your gems so that you have crit as your highest stat

And it will be an upgrade

[mighty owl]

They’re both good trinkets

[compact pumice]

Also quite unfair to compare 233 Dreadfire with 220 IQD only

[stoic needle]

I think skulker's is garbage but if you can't get anything better than sure I guess

[odd heath]

I think I have 1 haste gem only

Because it sims better this way

[stoic needle]

You might need to change gear then

Like getting a crit ring instead of the boe vers ring

[odd heath]

But tbh, I don't like iqd

[floral shoal]

Which classes/specs have iqd as bis? I gave one to a resto sham the other day with my trash hunter.

[stoic needle]

I mean nobody is forcing you to use it, but when built around it is the best trinket for sin

[winter gale]

!oil

[prisma monolith]

Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ

[hollow river]

Anyone here illidan?

Wrong channel

[compact pumice]

It seems if you change your enchants to crit the 220 IQD sims equal. But it would be higher if you could get your hands on a 226 IQD. I just found it interesting that it didn't sim higher for you so I tried a more broad sim.
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/bzn1pfj9XNjFp3c5hqXhJ

[odd heath]

Actually, I have more crit than hasts

Already

696 crit and 669 haste

[strange python]

Hey guys...so for doomblade (and strictly ST) the most buff envenom you can get is +15% right? (garrote, sbs, rupture)

[gloomy fern]

have u heard about mutilated flesh

[peak bridge]

hi all - still learning the spec. at what number of targets does FoK > Mutilate? On big packs am I right to just keep garrote on as much as I can, FoK everything and spend points on Rupture only if something will live for the duration otherwise envenom to spend?? any help appreciated!

[gusty mirage]

skulkers is el terrible

change my mind

[gloomy fern]

skulkers bis

[polar cape]

Skulker is the troll sludge partner trinket

[gloomy fern]

actually impossible to kill someone with skulkers on sludge

[gusty mirage]

[gloomy fern]

unless ur actively trying

and the other run away from the boss at the same time

[stoic needle]

You can redo this with a 226 by typing 'ilevel=226' in the simc input

I'm 100% positive that it will sim higher

[heavy trail]

ill try to find where to put that also

[dark crag]

!oil

[prisma monolith]

Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ

[grave dock]

Using consumables will increase your damage

huge if true

[celest ruin]

do you guys rupture skirmishers on slg?

they usually die too fast idk if a 4-5 sec rupture is worth it

[compact pumice]

Oh shit, it simmed higher than Phial actually.
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/uMkwToUZ26KikesEY6iex8

[stoic needle]

One or two could be worth it for the energy return when they die

Yep, iqd is giga

[odd heath]

The difficult is getting a 226 iqd or phial.. 3x m15 vault slots since idk, second or third week and never seen it drop

[grand ridge]

I have a 226 iqd on my holy priest ... And I've seen it on my priest at 226 3 times

Feelsbadman

[steel geyser]

What's the goal in mind when taking taking Elaborate Planning instead of Blindside in raid ?

[compact pumice]

Yeah. Never seen 226 Phial but have actually declined a 226 IQD due to me mainly playing Outlaw at the time.

[dawn ivy]

woah i was able to log into my ptr character for a tenth of a second

progress

[plain thistle]

doing more damage

thats always the goal

[gusty mirage]

EP provides more on demand damage than blindside which is why you see it used on sludge for example

[steel geyser]

Ikr, but what are the condition that make the one talent better than the other

[plain thistle]

and its better for more targets

[gusty mirage]

Yarp

[steel geyser]

It makes sens for sludge

[plain thistle]

and can even be better or super close if you are playing necrolord ( EP + vigor )

[gusty mirage]

Any multi target fights as well because you’ll be putting up ruptures/CT which activate EP

[dawn ivy]

does necro play vigor?

[gusty mirage]

Higher uptime

[steel geyser]

But I feel like Dena is mostly ST since adds are dying so fast I have barely the time do dot adds in P2 (not even motioning P1), so why EP

[grave dock]

or on real AOE when you're using mutilate less

[stoic needle]

Ep vigor is only 10 dps worse than bs/ds on 5min patchwerk for me

[grave dock]

like on SLG

[stoic needle]

As necrolord

[compact pumice]

BS/DS is usually mainly a big difference if you’re venthyr

[steel geyser]

EP Vigor is 44 dps loss for me for pw5min

as venthy

I'm trying to maximise my dmg output in P3 denathrius to make it easier to farm with mix of alts, idk what build to get tbh

Feels like Zoldyck is overrated

[plain thistle]

if you want p3 damage go blinside and zoldick, for execute damage

[steel geyser]

yea thats what I did but I'm not very satisfied of my dmg

[fallen bone]

What are other Vent Sin rogues doing to get high stacks on Flag? I am typically between 22-25 and try to get closer to the 30 max. Any advice is welcome.

[plain thistle]

22-25 is pretty normal, you cant get to 30 without lust and some luck

[north basin]

lust + lucky crits to get 4 cp per gcd

[ember nest]

Zoldyck vs MA on mythic raiding?

[compact pumice]

I am fairly certain Doomblade does more overall during P3 since execute is only for around 75% of the P3 phase.

[steel geyser]

yea

first vendetta is outside zoldyck window

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/M2NAQrxmX94JfwYC#fight=4&type=damage-done&phase=4 thats my kill from yesterday with zoldyck, prob a lot of minor mistakes and I played it safe cause I knew we were fine on dps but yea

I hate the BL on 2nd bloodprice

vendetta isnt up yet

[cedar crater]

I am thinking about switching to Sin from outlaw, im just worried about dmg in m+, any opinions?

[gusty mirage]

Give it a go, you may enjoy it. But outlaw’s a lot less effort to get damage out than assa in m+

[ember nest]

Lol its doing big dmg

[compact pumice]

I play OL in m+ and Sin in raid. But you can do the opposite if you want and still not do bad

How high keys are we talking?

[gusty mirage]

Similar numbers but a bit more effort involved for assa

[cedar crater]

ive been doing up to 13/14s

[wintry stone]

is you're playing DS, on your opener, do you envenom at 4 cp if you have like, MA chuggin along? or do you mutilate a second time for 6 before envenom

[cedar crater]

Any help with the dual spec? ive never actually done that before lol

[supple hawk]

Guys is there a way to simcraft myself with https://www.wowhead.com/spell=198145/system-shock enabled to get info about how much it is better to spen 5 combo points on envenom instead of 4?

[gusty mirage]

That’s a pvp talent

[compact pumice]

Then it doesn’t really matter tbh, the damage potential is very good for Sin and you’re not expected to keep gouge on cooldown nor get one shot by things that extra melee range would solve.

[supple hawk]

that is a pvp talend but it might be useful in outdoor content

[willow isle]

Any thoughts on new covenant legendaries?

[north basin]

in top 100 assa logs on denatrius only boss dps, only 3 zoldyks ). top zoldyk dps to boss on p3 was 6100. top dooomblade dps on p3 was 6700. not enuf data but still )

[gusty mirage]

Just set up 2 soulbinds (for example: Theotar for m+ and nadjia for ST)

[compact pumice]

I guess I don’t do anything but change soulbind and talents for m+. You can pick a covenant to be somewhat more tuned for M+ Outlaw and still perform well as Sin in raid, but I am sticking with Venthyr personally for now.

[grave dock]

people say that, and i'm sure it's true to a degree (I haven't played assassination keys yet) but necro outlaw with SBS and MFD is fairly involved

[bleak sky]

have we talked about the new flag legendary?

[compact pumice]

Outlaw rotation for one target compared to multiple is barely changed, just use blade flurry. But outlaw normal rotation has a bit of things to consider, true.

[gusty mirage]

Assa requires a lot to get the damage rolling. You need ~5 bleeds up so you can actually not be energy starved. As opposed to pushing blade flurry

[grave dock]

yea, I think the floor is higher for outlaw, and it's easier

[gusty mirage]

And doing your ST rotation

[grave dock]

just saying that necro outlaws are doing a lot of things in keys

[compact pumice]

Necro adds the same for sin as for OL though

Just playing with our without MFD can be optimized

[strange python]

I play sin in 19s

[gusty mirage]

There’s been some talk about it in #off-topic ironically. I think the CFs and fuu are still toying around with it and simming stuff

[stoic needle]

It's bugged currently

[gusty mirage]

Idk if it’ll beat out doomblade though. They’re definitely interesting concepts and I’d like to see them viable

[stoic needle]

Deathspike gaming

[compact pumice]

But MFD is not that crazy to optimize unless you can predict adds dying very accurately, and you will only gain very slightly more overall doing it. Well unless we talking spiteful then it’s a bit easier to snipe MFD

[gusty mirage]

SBS and mfd resets on spiteful are the only redeeming part of that shitty affix

[north basin]

btw when specced to CT we get envenom buffed by 15%? when garrote and rupture on target too?

[stoic needle]

Yes

[fallen bone]

@plain thistle Thank you.

[dawn ivy]

ct makes it 20%

[stoic needle]

25% with necrolord

[bleak sky]

I don't want to reroll covenant

[stoic needle]

[gusty mirage]

Come to the stinky side

[stoic needle]

Join us

[gusty mirage]

No one stanned Venthyr as hard as osh and I

[stoic needle]

Facts

[gusty mirage]

And we’ve seen the third arm stinky way as the true path

[dawn ivy]

im not entirely against swapping to necro, but the flag leggo seems pog

[umbral berry]

kinda does tbh ya

[north basin]

its like everypack in m+ u need to +3 bonespike casts on top of garrote/rupture/ct spam?

[stoic needle]

I'm calling it right now

Necro sin rogue with deathspike

Top damage on The Nine

In 9.1

Quote me

[gusty mirage]

I’m with you tbh

[dawn ivy]

well yeah

[gusty mirage]

Deathspike looks REALLY strong in m+

[cobalt comet]

Im so thorn between going necro and venthyr tbh

[dawn ivy]

we have to see how often you have to spread the bosses though

[gusty mirage]

Pick the one you think is cooler

They’re all close enough tbh

Except kyrian. Fuck those owls

[stoic needle]

Venthyr is the coolest looking

But sbs is the most fun button to press

[cobalt comet]

might go necro to switch outlaw in M+ and still be very strong in raid

[north basin]

we cant be bottom dps meter for 2 raids in a row. so i expect rogue back on top1-2 dps on solo targets in 9.1 raid

[amber mountain]

I'm finding I can get similar numbers as Venthyr 'Sin in M+ but it takes a bit more work and planning

and a tank that understands you need to restealth for optimal dps

[stoic needle]

Idk man

You don't lose much at all for not being able to restealth actually

And you can't come close to necro sin overall in keys

[dark jewel]

on 20+ keys u rarely gets restealths tho

[stoic needle]

You have more priority damage but your overall will be lower

[amber mountain]

Oh, i'm nowhere near 20+'s 😛

I'm not that guy

[stoic needle]

Zero restealths at all vs normal stealthing is only an 80 dps loss in dslice

[cobalt comet]

I love playing Sin and dont mind playing outlaw but the little quality of life and utility of outlaw will always win over dps in M+ imo...

raid is no brainer Sin though

[stoic needle]

It may technically be better but it's not enough for me to care

Sin is too much fun

[amber mountain]

I don't mind playing outlaw either

I just greatly prefer 'sin

[stoic needle]

I'm looking forward to never pressing fok again in a key

[gusty mirage]

Maybe the empowered poisoned katar conduit gives us EB back

Then you’ll be sorry

I just want maim mangle to give us an extra CP from garrotes

[amber mountain]

wait... what did i miss

how do you escape hitting FoK in M+? It seems to always short me cp

[dawn ivy]

oh no not the empowered conduits

[gusty mirage]

Watch them be like mediocre increases to the current conduits so I can be mad for another tier

[stoic needle]

The new deathspike legendary will basically make every cast of sbs after the first give you 5cp

And it'll have 5 charges

Ergo the only reason you'd fok is to spread poison

Like this legendary is actually fucking insane

[gusty mirage]

Assa about to be stonks in m+

[stoic needle]

And it's even better for outlaw

[gusty mirage]

Iron wire is a tank’s wet dream

[stoic needle]

Who needs 40%+ crit when you just get 5cp every builder anyway

[gusty mirage]

Tru

[stoic needle]

Legitimately having every mob in a pack ruptured

And the sbs dot scaling with mastery on all of them

[gusty mirage]

Stop I’ll soil my pants

Energy for days

[obtuse ruin]

So if you pull 8 creeps you only need 16 globals to get them running 🙃

[gusty mirage]

Whispyr always shows up when I say something stupid it’s like clockwork

[stoic needle]

Yes, we are a ramping aoe class

Not sure what your point is

[amber mountain]

Yeah, just looking over the rogue leggo's now, and it's almost enough to make me move covenants...

[stoic needle]

I wish the ptr was actually stable so I could run a key on the ptr

[amber mountain]

stability will come in the next few weeks... until they break it again

[teal bloom]

Master assassin is simming higher than subterfuge against two targets 🤔

[stoic needle]

That happens sometimes

[quiet spruce]

If I want to play assa for 2s and 3s and raid and outlaw for M+, is there a consensus on which covenant is perfect mix for that?

[gusty mirage]

Necro

Or fae

[quiet spruce]

Thanks for the quick answer. I see.

[gusty mirage]

Necro is bis for PvP for assa afaik, and bis for outlaw

And still good in raid esp w/ more than one target

[quiet spruce]

Ohhh why are some ppl saying venthyr?

Or is that for sub? I get confused. Still new

[gusty mirage]

Pretty sure venthyr is bis for sub pvp. But tbh I’m a mediocre pvper at best. The madlads in #pvp would be a better resource

[quiet spruce]

Ahh, no. This is what I needed. Thank you

[gusty mirage]

[dawn ivy]

the more i think about the necro leggo the more i think it might need to get nerfed

[balmy condor]

Yup

[quartz kelp]

does it use a charge for the extra hits or does it just make one charge have 3 hits

[balmy condor]

One charge 3 spikes

[quartz kelp]

and the extra spikes still grant you charges when the target dies?

[balmy condor]

Yes

[dawn ivy]

yeah jfc

[quartz kelp]

lmao

[dawn ivy]

thats getting nerfed man

[quartz kelp]

that is so busted

[dawn ivy]

that sounds hilarious

akaari's level non sense

[balmy condor]

It functions Just like 3 spikes

So 3 dots, 3 instant hits

[gusty mirage]

I see nothing wrong here

[balmy condor]

All 3 instant hits blade flurry on outlaw

They all seal fate if they crit

And grant cp

[dawn ivy]

lmfaooooooo

[gusty mirage]

CP for DAYS

[quartz kelp]

I can see them make the extra spikes not apply the dot

so u cant get infinite charges

[gusty mirage]

Just let us have this

[balmy condor]

Well it’s still max of 5

You can’t throw out 1 charge and get 3 back

And then have 7

[quartz kelp]

oh i know

but you get to use spikes a lot more often in total

[balmy condor]

I actually don’t think it’s quite much more across a dungeon

You’ll get more in huge aoe

But you usually get spikes on pretty much everything

And snipe dying mobs anyway

[quartz kelp]

oh ye if you pull 3-5 mobs at a time it wont change much

[stoic needle]

no touchy deathspike

[balmy condor]

I think the crazy part is the flurry damage

[stoic needle]

i think the initial damage is pretty powerful for both specs

[balmy condor]

Like we might live in a world where outlaw just throws out spikes and doesn’t care about overcapping

On some pulls

[stoic needle]

disgusting

[balmy condor]

The burst is ridiculous

[stoic needle]

i love it

[balmy condor]

Like 20k and up ridiculous

[stoic needle]

[fallen forge]

im kinda new to rogue, but outside of blindside do we ever use ambush?

[spice spire]

No

[balmy condor]

Nope

[lament canopy]

New to Rogue too. Usually tank but was wondering if u could sap more than 1 mob at a time? Also if stealthed why wouldn’t u use ambush?

[balmy condor]

No

You can sap 1 at a time

The next sap breaks the current one

!mut

[prisma monolith]

Ambush is currently only used from blindside/sepsis proc, not from stealth.
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3).
Some other factors to consider are increased poison applications, blindside, and doomblade. This is true for all talent combinations and legendaries.

[lament canopy]

Bummer

[balmy condor]

Is the reasoning for the ambush

[lament canopy]

Ahh kk ty

[rain edge]

hey all, can I get some in depth analysis on this log for M Shriek?
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/JzY9nC68XwcmNB3F#fight=3&type=damage-done&source=17

[grave dock]

few small things: your rupture dropped a few times, you were a bit late on shiv a few times, and you missed some blindside procs

[sinful cradle]

Pretty sure DS is the play when u play venthyr

[grave dock]

a few wasted CP on mut but not a ton

[sinful cradle]

on your opener you muti snd gar

[grave dock]

you also cast rupture on consecutive globals at one point

[sinful cradle]

should be muti snd muti gar

[sinful cradle]

thats only when boss parries the rupture

[grave dock]

yea that makes sense, I couldn't figure out how that would work as assassination

your second flag was really bad

you went flag > delay on next global > mut > garrote > mut

[sinful cradle]

you also vanished into muti shiv

[amber mountain]

I get that in my parses when I have to move

[sinful cradle]

Wasting your ma window there also

[grave dock]

also if you're really trying to min max your parse on shriek

you have like 5 second gaps between globals which I assume is hiding LOS for the AOE mechanic

you don't need to go that early; you can move at the last second and really only one miss 1 global

maybe 2

[amber mountain]

but don't be that guy that stands there and eats the shriek

[sinful cradle]

You also had a huge gap where you didnt have SND up

[grave dock]

you didn't use a finisher until 7 seconds into your 3rd flag

[sinful cradle]

1 whole minute

[grave dock]

and like 4-5 seconds after pressing flag with no button at all

[dawn ivy]

is dauntless duelist still the go to when theres multiple targets like the nine?

[grave dock]

and you shived 2nd global on that vanish too

[dawn ivy]

2 target cleave with a third target in the final phase?

[grave dock]

garrote is also your last global on the fight

probably not worth applying when the boss is sub 1%

[wary ice]

Dauting is applied once per-combat to the first target you hit

So in fights like Huntsman where theres multi targets and one lives for the whole fight its still good

where as fights like Sunking where multi targets / the one you want the damage amp on isnt available at the start, its bad

IDK how the nine works but i mean you should be able to draw your own conclusions with that info

[stoic needle]

dauntless does get reapplied after the first target dies

[grave dock]

yes, it is not accurate that it is once per combat

it occasionally bugs out on some fights (council is a bit notorious for this) but generally speaking it reapplies correctly

[fallen arch]

Yeah I was wondering, does cloak work against shriek? Was too affraid to try this week 😅

[tropic echo]

no

you still drop the blood

[fallen arch]

Ah k thanks

[amber mountain]

No it doesn't.

[fallen arch]

Didn’t want to be ‘that guy’

[amber mountain]

My guild does a weekly LFR alt/trolling run and I tried exactly that a few weeks ago when it was my turn to be on the carry end

[rain edge]

awesome, thanks so much! super helpful. Ill keep an eye out for those

[tropic echo]

you can use it to not get feared by krillin's destructo discs but you'll still drop a puddle i think

[wary shale]

What do you guys think about the covenant legendaries? Venthyr looks strongest imo

[balmy condor]

thoughts are in the pins

venthyr is bugged to hell atm

so hard to tell what's up with that

but necro is crazy crazy crazy strong

[neat frost]

Uncertain
The versa is nice, and you get more flagellation, but flag already doesn't sync with vendetta/vanish

If you can get enough CDR on flag to get it down to 1 minute it could be back up for vendetta every other flag. That could be nice

I would recommend letting the guys do their theory rafting and dimming and discussions, and come back in a couple weeks before you do anything crazy like covenant swap for a leggo

[kind talon]

whats the venth leggo bug?

it reduces cd with or without flag was what i heard last but

[kind talon]

with the bug i someone mentioned yesterday or so, its avg 30-45 cd

which is like

bonkers broken

[tribal marlin]

I'm not sure it's going to be a play, up until we can pair it with another leggo at least. But we'll see

oh yeah there is the versatility thing I forgot

[kind talon]

yeah

[tribal marlin]

if it's 30% versa then it may be very good tho

[kind talon]

its same versa as haste

in its current state you can get off like

3

[tribal marlin]

ok then I changed my statement

it's broken.

[kind talon]

for HD

with the BUG youd get lik

[dull cloak]

no its just 1% verse 4head

[kind talon]

7-9 probably

on a 4 minute boss

how fucked is that btw

[subtle kiln]

you mean it actually sounds legendary

[kind talon]

legendary

[polar cape]

Flag lego is a defensive with all that vers

[balmy condor]

venthyr legendary doesn't look that great btw

on first pass

[kind talon]

how much dps inc is doomblades?

[wary ice]

[balmy condor]

from what I'm seeing, venth lego is maybe between dusk and ttb

in terms of power

[kind talon]

how

[balmy condor]

so like it's top 3-4 maybe

but it's not looking great

[teal bloom]

Tiny toxic blade Pog

[kind talon]

is that with the bug? @balmy condor

[balmy condor]

no

[kind talon]

was the bug fixed ?

[wary ice]

its not reasonable to assume the bug will make it to live

[balmy condor]

no

[misty holly]

Does the necro legendary propagating to 3 targets mean you get a refund for each enemy that dies?

[balmy condor]

yes

[kind talon]

yes

i mean it depends whispyr

[misty holly]

Nice

[kind talon]

whether the "spent combat points during flagellation" means

the 12 seconds

or the full 24

were you doing sims with the cdr during 12 or 24

[balmy condor]

No reason to believe it’s not the 12 seconds

None of the other effects are the 24

The other effects state “when flag ends”

The debuff drops

Like

I get wanting the 24 seconds

[kind talon]

the buff and the debuff are called Flagellation right

or no

[balmy condor]

But I don’t think it reasonable to assume it’ll work that way

[kind talon]

what is the buff called

[shy dust]

You simmed it with the it working like flat does on live?

[balmy condor]

Yes

[shy dust]

Like 24 second stats 12 seconds of cdr

[balmy condor]

Yes

That’s how it’s implemented in ptr sims and that’s what the spell data would imply

Like I said

There is no reason to assume it’s supposed to be cdr for all 24

[kind talon]

what is the buff called

im not venthyr so i cant check

[balmy condor]

Idk what the ptr names are

[kind talon]

like, the aura on your character

on live

[gray fjord]

Should still be Flagellation

[balmy condor]

Yeh

[kind talon]

ok so

the debuff is Flagellation

and the aura buff is Flagellation

so we can't tell which one the tooltip is referring to

[balmy condor]

Sure we can

Spell ID’s exist

[kind talon]

oh

yeah true

[balmy condor]

And also inference and logic exists

So for the third damned time now

[gray fjord]

Press "F" to doubt

[balmy condor]

There’s no reason why the cdr should be all 24

[stoic needle]

[balmy condor]

Even if it were all 24

It wouldn’t even matter

Because you’d sync it with vend anyways

So what’s the point

[kind talon]

because its the difference between an extra cast

and not an extra cast

of flag

between vendettas

[balmy condor]

It’s 1 minute in both situations

[kind talon]

but its not

[balmy condor]

Why does it matter if it’s 1:05 or it’s 50 seconds

You’re syncing every other

It’s the same amount of casts

[frigid kestrel]

https://tenor.com/view/eating-popcorn-movie-time-chilling-tom-and-jerry-gif-13828706

[balmy condor]

We’re going into hypotheticals on top of hypotheticals, if things hypothetically hypotheticaled

This isn’t worth my time man

[kind talon]

its literally one difference

and im just wondering

[balmy condor]

Okay, let me reiterate

[kind talon]

how much better it would be

[balmy condor]

There is no reason why it’s 24

[kind talon]

with 24 seconds instead of 12

[balmy condor]

IF IT WERE the 24 seconds

[kind talon]

ik u say it doesnt matter

[balmy condor]

The cdr would sync

And you wouldn’t miss casts

[kind talon]

idk if its the difference of 25 seconds cdr vs 40

double uptime on the cdr buff would make it atleast 50

which would potentially let you get 2 casts in between vendetta

if flag had 40 second cd

[fathom swift]

yeah i also read it as only during the debuff

not the resulting buff afterwards

[dawn ivy]

you would never be getting enough cdr to be able to cast flag twice between vendetta

[kind talon]

lust pi etc

[dawn ivy]

no

[balmy condor]

You’re getting about 35-40 seconds atm on ptr

[fathom swift]

but probably not good enough unless you can consistently get 1 min flag cds

[balmy condor]

And that’s with the bug

[fathom swift]

which it doesnt seem to be atm in sims

[balmy condor]

Yeah

[kind talon]

is the bug reducing cdr after the buff on your character expires

like at all times?

[balmy condor]

All finishers reduce

[whole mason]

This is the number of reduction, right?

[gray fjord]

The CDR is applied even when flagellation isn't active

Yeah, it's literally constant, pretty nuts.

[balmy condor]

No, that’s the cooldown

[kind talon]

i see

[whole mason]

what?

[kind talon]

and is that without lust pi

[whole mason]

how come

[balmy condor]

The legendary is bugged

[kind talon]

what is it with lust or pi

[whole mason]

ahh, i see

[balmy condor]

And all finishers reduce the cdr

[whole mason]

40sec would be something interesting

[balmy condor]

It would be

[whole mason]

not realistic tho

[balmy condor]

But the legendary would need to be like 4x stronger

[tribal marlin]

What matter is the versa buff and it is not working atm

[balmy condor]

In order for that to happen

[kind talon]

wdym

[whole mason]

40sec means it can even pair with euphoria

[dawn ivy]

the vers is working

[fathom swift]

none of them seem exciting st but i didnt check aoe for stuff like necro

[gray fjord]

The vers buff falls off as soon as the initial 12 seconds of Flagellation are over, and that should most likely last the full 24 since it's tied/paired with the haste buff stacks

[vale marten]

if flag will be 1 min then duskwalker becmoes more appealing aswel

[fathom swift]

cant use 2 legendaries

[vale marten]

maybe not bis, but better for sure

[whole mason]

no 2 leggo

[vale marten]

i meant instead of doom

[dawn ivy]

.

LOL

[fathom swift]

how you getting flag to 1 min without the covenant legendary

[whole mason]

unless you mean buff flag to 1min flat?

[vale marten]

ah right its the cov

[kind talon]

@balmy condor sorry for bugging u when the legendary is still bugged to hell

[vale marten]

damn, there go my hopes

[gray fjord]

https://tenor.com/view/it-was-all-a-dream-walking-dead-twd-the-walking-dead-it-was-all-a-dream-wasnt-it-gif-13381712

[whole mason]

duskwalker should be implemented as a talent imo.

[balmy condor]

it's fine, it's just you and a million other people

[kind talon]

yeah i understand that

[balmy condor]

and having long discussions where I just repeat myself

[kind talon]

sorry to add to it

[balmy condor]

over and over and over

[kind talon]

100%

[balmy condor]

is just a waste of time

[gray fjord]

But Whyspir

[fathom swift]

welcome to class discords

[stoic needle]

if anything zoldyck should be the talent

[tribal marlin]

ok my char was just bugg now it work

[kind talon]

is it lasting full 24 second or 12 second only?

the vers?

[tribal marlin]

12sec

[kind talon]

LOL

[tribal marlin]

probably not intended this way thoi

[kind talon]

this leggo man

everything about it is fucked LMFAO

[gray fjord]

At least it isn't the Sepsis leggo

Dead in the water

[kind talon]

okay but imagine

30-45 sec cd on flag

im assuming unlusted / no pi

best pi target

[balmy condor]

that would require the cdr portion to be like 2-2.5 seconds

[kind talon]

if it was any good 😦

i cant wait till they fix it!

actually so excited for it

[tribal marlin]

the cdr portion is pointless tbh

[stoic needle]

hi miki!

[tribal marlin]

you'll sync with vendetta anyway

[kind talon]

no

its not pointless

its a difference of # of flags between vendettas

1 2 or 3

potentially

[fathom swift]

not pointless if you dont even get it down to 1 min

[balmy condor]

@kind talon I am a lying man

the fucking sin APL nonsense that I fought to not get implemented is fucking everything over

[kind talon]

which means?

[balmy condor]

that stupid fucking sync logic

with the flag/vend

[kind talon]

OMG

NO

[balmy condor]

is forcing it to 1:30

[kind talon]

DONT TELL ME

[tribal marlin]

But ideally you want to sync it with Fatal Flaw buff which is up every 90sec exactly

[kind talon]

ITS NOT CASTING

BAHAHAHAHHAHA

[balmy condor]

god I fucking hate that shit

[kind talon]

i knew it

:)

[stoic needle]

so that means the venthyr legendary is slightly better?

[kind talon]

no

sim isnt done

[balmy condor]

yeah I have to resim without all the flag/vend syncing bullshit

[fathom swift]

it wasnt doing that when i was simming it, it was casting it much more frequently than 1.30

[kind talon]

we wait for great leader whispyr to show us the way

[balmy condor]

WHICH THE APL SHOULD HAVE BEEN TO BEGIN WITH

BUT NOOOOOOOOOOOO

WE HAVE TO ADD JANK NONSENSE

[tribal marlin]

so if the Leggo drop Flag 12sec down, I can bet you that it'll be more efficient to still cast it every 90sec (delaying 3rd vendetta to 270s marker to sync)

[kind talon]

[kind talon]

why would the leggo only drop flag 12 sec

[stoic needle]

honestly I'm glad that I'm not venthyr anymore just so i don't have to worry about syncing flag

[kind talon]

you're casting 2 envenoms

during flag?

[stoic needle]

me bone spike zug zug

[kind talon]

@balmy condor ye again sorry for bugging u but as soon as i saw the venth leggo compared to ttb

i was shooketh

[balmy condor]

ttb is actually not awful

[strange python]

whispyr do you know if koji/mystler are aware of the flag legendary's behavior on the ptr before they implement it in sims?

[tribal marlin]

if flag go down to 1:10 it will sync with Euphoria that's good

[kind talon]

the apl is fucked atm

[strange python]

not apl

[kind talon]

but from what whispyr said

they are simming it assuming that

the vers lasts all 24 seconds

and the cdr is only during the first 12 seconds

as opposed to all the time

[balmy condor]

I'm like 95% sure they looked at spell data for implementation

[strange python]

me too

[balmy condor]

I think they just ignored the bug

[kind talon]

nvm ignore me

[gloomy rose]

does EP damage buff apply to the finisher itself?

[balmy condor]

cause it's clearly unintended

the cdr works as expected in sims

[tribal marlin]

basically we could get ~20% versa ramping up with the 20% haste from Euphoria, then 20% crit from Fatal thing + the haste buff from flag

[kind talon]

the cdr or the vers bug

[tribal marlin]

that's good

[kind talon]

is the vers working in sims too?

or is it at 12 seconds

[gray fjord]

It goes off your top stat for Fatal Flaws of Crit/Vers, so you potentially will always get vers if running the flag leggo, do consider.

[tribal marlin]

no because your versa buff will mostly fade before Fatal Flaws trigger

but in the other case well

yeah it'll give versa

[kind talon]

what is fatal flaws

[tribal marlin]

new broken Nadjia soulbind

[solid chasm]

new souldbind

[kind talon]

oh shit

wait

[tribal marlin]

basically give 20% crit or Versa for 10sec every 90sec

[kind talon]

we using iqd now right?

[gray fjord]

Hm yeah, possibly then, it is plausible it could give either then. I forgot it was based off Euphoria not Flag

[kind talon]

if we are getting so much more flag cdr

[tribal marlin]

Flag CDR will be fixed

I mean, don't plan ahead it being in its current state

[kind talon]

ye

so avg 1 minute can be assumed

[tribal marlin]

I know we like to be broken, but Assa is already god damn toping metters rn

[kind talon]

which is almost double the casts

[tribal marlin]

no need for more OPness

[kind talon]

right

so we could use 1 min trinket

[solid chasm]

heh opness

[kind talon]

or different trinket thats hasted like sludge

[whole mason]

how good is the expected version compared to doomblade?

[kind talon]

whispyr doing sims rn @whole mason

[gray fjord]

If other classes can have legendaries that are 12% DPS gains, I don't see why rogue can't. 😉

[kind talon]

or at least

the sims are gonna be fixed so we dont know yet

how much %gain is doomblades

[whole mason]

That's great

[kind talon]

nvm ill check bloodmallet lol

[sinful cradle]

Man imagine if we can equip 2 legos, venthyr one + vendetta cdr

[kind talon]

7%

[whole mason]

Tons of love for @balmy condor

[kind talon]

@balmy condor

[gusty mirage]

Whispyr bullies me

[tribal marlin]

The CDR thingy kinda sucks, would be awesome if it would rather reduce Vendetta CD xD

so that everything line up : Flag / Vend and Fatal Flaws

[kind talon]

it really depends

[balmy condor]

flag is looking like roughly 70 seconds

btw

just popping in between sims

[kind talon]

whispyr is that lusted or pi

or no

[balmy condor]

baseline BiS gear

[kind talon]

no lust?

[balmy condor]

lust included

[tribal marlin]

70sec CD is not good

[kind talon]

im interested in seeing what the cdr is

with pi and lust included

[tribal marlin]

it sucks really

[whole mason]

I think that is the average interv

[kind talon]

yes

i know

[balmy condor]

if you get a PI during the lust, you'll probably get it to like 65

but from 70 to 60 is a large leap

[kind talon]

oh

its 70 seconds avg WITH lust?

[tribal marlin]

Encounters are designed around flat 2mn or 3mn CD usually

[whole mason]

70 means 20stacks right?

[kind talon]

no

25

w lashing

[whole mason]

ahh

I see

[kind talon]

yep

[balmy condor]

yeh

you'd need 2 full finishers

to get to 60

[tribal marlin]

having 70sec CD is like you'll be off timing most of the time and it definitely sucks. 95% of the time you'll have to delay that shit and the CDR will be useless

[kind talon]

what are we hitting on live

with pi

[balmy condor]

PI isn't affecting stacks

[kind talon]

30 stacks ever?

[balmy condor]

30 stacks is very very very hard to hit

[kind talon]

wtf assa rogue gcd is not hasted?

[whole mason]

gcds are locked

[balmy condor]

you need to MFD and shit

[balmy condor]

all rogue gcd's are 1 second hard capped

[kind talon]

LOL

[balmy condor]

haste doesn't do anything

[kind talon]

im a failure

so haste only effects energy gen

[whole mason]

Need the power of MfD then.

[kind talon]

got it

[balmy condor]

and dot ticks

[tribal marlin]

at best you do 4 finisher maybe

[kind talon]

yes

dot ticks = energy gen

[balmy condor]

but yeah

getting 2 more finishers in

[kind talon]

but yeah im talking in terms of

[balmy condor]

compared to live

[kind talon]

finishers

[balmy condor]

is gonna be kinda brutal

[kind talon]

but whispyr

youd need to get

a 60 second flag AGAIN

[balmy condor]

yeah

[kind talon]

to sync

[balmy condor]

it's very unlikely

that's part of the reason why it's just not good

[kind talon]

so leggo will not be good unless

its not the 12 seconds

[whole mason]

I need to read the description again.

[kind talon]

well, the vers buff is still pretty big tho

[tribal marlin]

the versa buff is very good yeah

might not be top simming

but definitely something you like in real encounter

[kind talon]

i still dont know if the sims are using 24 second or 12 second

vers

[whole mason]

Is there any clarification about 12 or 24 sec from blizzard?

[kind talon]

its been out for a day

wait a bit

next patch

[tribal marlin]

bro idk like litterally 2 hours ago it wasn't even working for me (the versa buff)

and now it work but it's only 12sec

and seems like on spell data it was 24sec when first implemented so

[kind talon]

i mean ye idk

for 12 seconds its like

a scaling versa buff that does nothing

if its 24 its way better

like night and day

[tribal marlin]

they should remove the CDR part and make it 24sec

imo

[kind talon]

nah

leggo wouldnt be good unless it all lines up

[stoic needle]

have you considered whether it might be better with the bis gear set from the next patch

259 ilvl stat budgets

could give us more crit and haste to get those last 2 finishers in

[dawn ivy]

we wont be getting THAT many secondaries

[stoic needle]

idk man

have you looked at the 259 gear

[solid chasm]

say it osho

[stoic needle]

there's literally a 5% crit ring

[solid chasm]

say the word

s...

[spice spire]

Don’t you dare say it

Don’t succumb to the dark side

[stoic needle]

[solid chasm]

he wants to say it

[tribal marlin]

doesn't change the fact that 70sec cooldown will be off timing 95% of time

[stoic needle]

well what if it's not 70s in t28 gear

that's my point

[solid chasm]

sc...

[spice spire]

Where’s the mastery ring

[kind talon]

sca

[tribal marlin]

you'll get 24sec at best

I mean

[kind talon]

24sec of what

miki

[tribal marlin]

cdr

you get 4 finisher at best

[kind talon]

ye

tru

again this is assuming 12 sec window for cdr

[balmy condor]

this meme brought to you by the "I'll beat yo bitch ass" gang

[tribal marlin]

but even 66sec CD it's off timing

[stoic needle]

[kind talon]

yeah but

[tribal marlin]

and you will not have that 24sec of CDR every single time

[solid chasm]

lmao that meme

[kind talon]

ye idk

would depend on the bugs getting fixed

and what blizz decides to do with the leggo

[spice spire]

I’m yoinking this ngl

But also beat me up papi

[dawn ivy]

i assume theyre going to update the vers to be 24 seconds, and update the cdr to only be 12

thats what the wording SOUNDS like its supposed to be

[whole mason]

Unless clarified by blizzard, I think there is still hope for 24sec for cdr.

[kind talon]

^

my thoughts exactly

but id lean towards 12 sec still

only issue is that if its 12 sec

its probably not better

[dawn ivy]

the wording is a bit specific for it to bend like that

[gusty mirage]

He won’t stop though, you’ll forever be emotionally abused

[whole mason]

the activation of flag is packed with two buff of the same name of flagellation in https://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/theory/mechanic/spell/covenantflagellation?spec=RogueAssassination&version=live

[spice spire]

Jokes on him, that’s my kink.

I mean

[kind talon]

again

is "Flagellation"

the 24 second buff

or the 12 second debuff

they have the same name

[whole mason]

debuff?

[kind talon]

the application to the enemy

that stacks

for 12 seconds

[tribal marlin]

both effect should last 24sec

or at least the versa buff

tbh

[kind talon]

the vers buff obviously will

the cdr idk

but if it does last 24 seconds

then it will line up

[tribal marlin]

would be nice

[whole mason]

for my humble understanding of English, if they're talking debuff, they wouldn't use ``active", but "applied".

[wooden knot]

and usually debuff-based buffs mention that its only on that target, eg vendetta

[tribal marlin]

A wise man said "Do not trust tooltips"

[whole mason]

Why ask mr robot dose not have a ptr version!

[balmy condor]

ask mr robot

oh man

what a throwback

[whole mason]

it gives some good and detailed information

[balmy condor]

man ain't nobody use that dogshit

[gusty mirage]

People still use mr robot?

[vestal wren]

healers do iirc

[wooden knot]

not people, just robots

[balmy condor]

it's not good and detailed if it's all shadowy nonsense

who even develops the AMR stuff

has anyone ever heard of them

[whole mason]

no, i'm talking about spell details

[gusty mirage]

Wait how do you sim healing?

[grave dock]

need shadowcraft to have an updated PTR version

[balmy condor]

wowhead has those

[vestal wren]

raidbots has heal sims

[spice spire]

Damn whispyr out here really “who?”ing devs :/

[vestal wren]

*ask mr

[whole mason]

not like https://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/theory/mechanic/spell/covenantflagellation?spec=RogueAssassination&version=live

[gusty mirage]

[balmy condor]

all that info is on wowhead

[gusty mirage]

Mr. Robot can calculate how many of your raid members stand in avoidable damage?

[whole mason]

you mean the table?

[kind talon]

oxi

[balmy condor]

I don't see a table on there

but there is no info on that page

that isn't on wowhead

[spice spire]

I can calc that for you bud.
All - good luck nerd LMAO

[gusty mirage]

Dang I got wrecked

[spice spire]

I fixed

I did bad

Smh

[whole mason]

at least on wowhead I didn't see the extended buff page

[kind talon]

@balmy condor what is the spell id in the tooltip

for venth leggo

idk how to check

[balmy condor]

do I bother with APL changes for kyrian right now

[gusty mirage]

No fuck them owls

[strange python]

anyone have a hidden knives wa? :)

[kind talon]

or is it still fucked with the bug

[balmy condor]

[kind talon]

god damnit

[fathom swift]

what relevant info do you need from that page?

[balmy condor]

seems to be wrapped into the same ID

if that helps

but venthyr lego is literally fucked in like 4 different ways

[kind talon]

ye ik its so funny

[vestal wren]

whispyr, can you pls find a apl change that makes the night fae legendary good?

[kind talon]

FUU

[balmy condor]

not possible

I'm pretty sure they can make it 30 seconds

and it would still be bad

[spice spire]

Just fudge the numbers

[balmy condor]

[spice spire]

Ez

[whole mason]

for example if the haste buff is following triggered or packed with the activation of flag

[spice spire]

Oh no

[kind talon]

[gusty mirage]

[fathom swift]

what difference does it make?

[balmy condor]

it makes me feel like a

[kind talon]

LOL

[whole mason]

Lets say if the activation include the extended 12sec, then the leggo may be intended for 24sec as a whole duration for cdr.

[fathom swift]

thats not how those effects work really

[balmy condor]

sounds like someone is inhaling too much copium

[spice spire]

[fathom swift]

correct me if im wrong but

are those effects not just how amr codes them for their sim

rather than how they actually work in the game?

[gusty mirage]

[balmy condor]

I wasn't gonna say anything bolas

[fathom swift]

like serrated bone spike counts as a bleed for doomblade right? im not necro idr

[whole mason]

Well, Im just reading the description and trying to understand how this ``flag" activation should mean if there is not official clarification on it.

[kind talon]

yes

[balmy condor]

it does

[kind talon]

it does @fathom swift

[fathom swift]

yeah their version of doomblade doesnt count it

so either way

unreliable

[kind talon]

lol

[fathom swift]

the description is amr trying to recreate how it works in game, its not accurate to how it actually functions

[gusty mirage]

I might have to retire from the spec channels for a while there’s some real degenerate shit being asked rn

[fathom swift]

it's like trying to figure out what kind of paint was used on the mona lisa by analyzing a 5 year olds recreation of it

tldr amr bad, dont rely on it for anything

[balmy condor]

I'm playing path

[whole mason]

I think your metaphor is not accurate here

[balmy condor]

I think it's a quite good

analogy

because AMR is a disaster

any chance to not use AMR sounds good to me

[fathom swift]

it's like

[shy dust]

I remember the old days of having to use amr

[fathom swift]

amr and simc don't have access to blizz code directly

[shy dust]

For expertise and hit rating reforging

[vagrant tapir]

I know its early, but are any of the covenant legos looking viable over the existing choices?

[fathom swift]

you can only implement abilities in sims by looking at spell data and doing your best to replicate the behaviour in game

i wouldnt advise anyone to try to figure out how an ability is supposed to work by looking it up in simc code either

[whole mason]

If that is the case, then we can only wait for bliz to fix the bug

[balmy condor]

necro is crazy strong in m+, otherwise not really

[stoic needle]

[steel geyser]

Hey,

I need to be sure for P3 denathrius :

1. Cloak does prevent from being kb by Shattering Pain ?
2. Cloak prevents from being hit from massacre ?

Both are shadow damage so I assume it would work but I don't really wanna test it myself and i'm currently using cloak to help healers on blood price

[gloomy knoll]

the venth one don't seem good?

[whole mason]

neither

[gloomy knoll]

did you sim it whispyr

tell us the secret sauce

or just me

[stoic needle]

scroll up there is no secret sauce

[balmy condor]

I did sim it

[whole mason]

The only thing cloak does is preventing damage from kb but not kb

[balmy condor]

there's nothing secret about it

it's just not good

[steel geyser]

I'm currently shadowsteping on DK during the bad combo of massacre+shattering pain of P3, how do you guys do

[whole mason]

and more importantly the dmg from red surface

[gloomy knoll]

really?

[balmy condor]

basically that

[gloomy knoll]

sadge

[gloomy knoll]

i do that yea

i cloak shadowstep dk

walk back into ravage

then go to my seeds

[whole mason]

if you trust your DK, you can do that, but remember shadowstep locate you a position behind the DK

[balmy condor]

the cdr is 70 seconds, so you get weird sync's, the vers is okay I guess, but that's the most you'll gain from it

[gloomy knoll]

damn

[steel geyser]

whats the point of cloaking then

[gloomy knoll]

to walk back into the ravag

my dk is usually like right in the middle of the room

[fathom swift]

my dks usually walk into the old ravage so i cloak before i step them but yeah

[whole mason]

I walk onto the red and run for a distance for kb

[gloomy knoll]

i was afraid that

not being able to get flag to 60 seconds

would fuck it up

[steel geyser]

thx, so no massacre dodge with cloak thx

[gloomy knoll]

nope

cheat death works on a few things there

tho

[steel geyser]

yea

[gloomy knoll]

just avoid massacres and ur good

[whole mason]

save your cheat death and shadow step for the most gain would be good

[wraith vault]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

In general simming yourself is the recommended way to determine stat weights.
The following is a general recommendation, but you will always get more accurate results through simulation.
Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[odd hazel]

im at 215 and my stats ( sim wise ) are crit > haste > Vers > mastery. Haste is like, 2 ahead of vers. prob will jump ahead with a better weap ( With haste on it, sad face having two crit mastery weaps )

[strange python]

our stats are pretty fluid

st vs aoe, talents, legendaries, covenant can all shift them around

[kind talon]

haste is better on non venthyr

[odd hazel]

yeah, thats with being venthyr.

[kind talon]

sure

[strange python]

oops this is sin rogue channel

bye

[limber lion]

Solo in #assassination

[kind talon]

LOL solo

i was gonna ask

[limber lion]

[kind talon]

LMFAO

[odd hazel]

we were bamboozled

[kind talon]

mastery on aoe

but ye krey crit is bis esp if u have iqd

for 100% critters

[odd hazel]

i fucking wish

[kind talon]

p pog champion

[odd hazel]

i have phial/decanter right now