assassination

[warm parcel]

Intentionally

[whole mason]

or say not to pool that much before shiv or say press shiv when it is up

[warm parcel]

Youre supposed to shiv on cd regardless

[inland glacier]

Guys I'd really appreciate your help - and I'll totally understand if you just refer me to the usual guides. I'm playing sin, doing raiding and maybe dabbling in m+ for gear. I have a 235 MA leggo already, should i go for doomblade or zoldyck next? I've looked at both IV and wowhead but can't make a decision

[warm parcel]

That shouldnt be a factor

[balmy condor]

WTB a sim showing any gain for this feelcraft

[balmy condor]

I'd make doomblade

you can play MA in keys

[inland glacier]

thanks very much! that's exactly what i'll do

[frosty bridge]

On Sire Cabalists, should I garrote rupture both and pump sire or?

[balmy condor]

rupture anything that lives long enough

[frosty bridge]

Yeah but I shouldn't focus them right?

[balmy condor]

nah don't have to

[frosty bridge]

Sick thanks

[warm parcel]

if youre garroting both bosses you wont have cd to garrote the adds

just actually not possible

so its going to hit boss dps if you miss refresh on sword when it swings by

[frosty bridge]

Gotcha, thanks

[frozen jasper]

is necro much better for m+ higher keys ? like 19/20 range ? im considering to switch from venth

[balmy condor]

depends on "much" better

but it is better, yes

[halcyon zealot]

depends on if your group needs a venth player too, venth players seem to be few and far between

[frozen jasper]

right now im venth and we need a necro, if i switch we need another venth

[halcyon zealot]

ya that’s a toughy

[honest rain]

did anyone cleared PH hc as assa?

*PF

[frozen jasper]

yeah i guess ill switch this week and try it out

[balmy condor]

sub is easier

[honest rain]

is there any special tactic?

[halcyon zealot]

if you switch and just instantly pick up the prep quest, it’s not bad at all to test for a week

[honest rain]

cba leving and equiping a tank

[balmy condor]

have like 225+ ilvl, run soothing, and cheese all the consumables you can

the first one is the hard boss

you can vanish to reset the adds

[honest rain]

yeah im full pvp 227

[frozen jasper]

sounds like a plan. thanks for the advice

[balmy condor]

at the end of the day it's just a dps race

[honest rain]

i ll try ty

[vocal stone]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/d2v6mP3HntzwV8fL#fight=13&type=summary&source=78

any suggestions for improvement with this log? i know i need more haste, just haven't gotten any haste drops :c

[balmy condor]

uptimes could've been a little higher

91% on gar/rup means it dropped a couple times

[vocal stone]

right

as for envenom uptime, is that just needing more haste

[balmy condor]

the envenom uptime looks fine

but haste means faster, and faster means more uptime

so I guess it would help

[warm parcel]

I mean how bout ignoring stats and getting the basics

[balmy condor]

yeh

stats are big whatever

[warm parcel]

Getting 14 dps from a haste gem isnt going to make you play better

[balmy condor]

also you missed at least 1 shiv cast

[crimson sleet]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/BRfJnP9CHMD7FNZy#fight=21&source=9&type=damage-done&targetclass=Boss some tips for improvement to pump more on dena ? I mean i am happy, but more is more 🙂

[balmy condor]

I'm expecting 10, maybe 11 if you're casting the shiv strictly on cooldown

and there's 9 there

[raven pecan]

Is it worth using garrote twice in your opener for a 24 sec empowered garrote?

[balmy condor]

no

it's one of the worst things you can do actually

with subterfuge on single target

[vocal stone]

huh yeah i am missing a shiv cast

[warm parcel]

I mean you cast your second shiv at 40s

You just forgot

[balmy condor]

yeh

[warm parcel]

So getting ui that you like

Hitting a dummy to just get it to muscle memory

Thats what wow really is

Same with the dena log

Youre doing some random questionable things

Like vanish mut rupture

And if you wanna talk actual cd usage

You didnt ven as soon as p3 hit

Meaning you wont get 2

[warm parcel]

Meaning you wasted one in p2

[balmy condor]

also looks like you bound vend and vanish together

which leads to very questionable things

like that

(for the sire log)

[warm parcel]

Shiv with 0 envenoms in it

Dno if youre out of range or what but youre simply not casting jack in it

[crimson sleet]

Ill use vend after forst blod price in p3x, and get it a second time around 9:30

So its better to use it instant ?

[whole mason]

Imho, the energy you can gain for the whole window of shiv cd (25s) is limited. Energy you pooled for shiv window means it not usable out of shiv. This is why I did the calc to make sure if I really need to plan energy for shiv, which resulted in the napkin math. This does not have any impact on current practice or existing sim APL. My original thinking is to pool at least 325-18*(1+haste) *9 energy so that 3 env can be done in shiv, which makes it quite limited energy outside of shiv window, which is 18 *(1+haste) *(16+9) - 325 for 1rup, 1-2gar and several muts. That's why after the napkin math I see an env buff outside of shiv is not that bad or say two env in shiv is ok.

[warm parcel]

Well the ven usage is really up to your raid and bl usage

[hollow escarp]

energy it's not wasted if it's not capped

[warm parcel]

But when most(afaik) groups use bl downstairs, its about 2 mins into p3

Thats when dks get army and stuff

So to hit that you would have to ven asap

If you lust later, then its fine

[balmy condor]

holy this is so convoluted for 0 reason

I can't even keep up with the math

[crimson sleet]

We lust start p3 downstairs

After first bloodprice

[balmy condor]

just pool out of shiv, and slam in shiv

it's not complicated

[warm parcel]

Yea well the cd usage is up to the raid

But just general rotation for you too

Its wacky at points

Just not what you would wanna do

[crimson sleet]

Yeh i know, 2nd week assa for me. Have to get it rolling

Is macro vanish and vendeta not good ?

[whole mason]

not good

[warm parcel]

My honest opinion is to not macro any of that shit

And literally go hit a dummy for 4 hours

Itll help

Repetition is the key as in any sport

[balmy condor]

macroing things together is never the move imo

why would you force yourself to macro things together

when you could have control over it instead

[warm parcel]

I get some people macro vessel to muti cause theyre just lazy

But like if you can, just put it on a separate bind

[hollow escarp]

I wanna see somebody mutilating an immune boss with that macro

or one of SLG bosses in dr phase

[warm parcel]

Not like our alt rogue used vessel on lust reset when muting boss

[balmy condor]

it's just laziness that adds situations where you lose dps

for no reason

[warm parcel]

And didnt have it for actual pull

[hollow escarp]

lol

[warm parcel]

I get it

Vessels whatever boring trinket on use dmg

[royal lantern]

i macroed vessel with vendetta/arush

[warm parcel]

But sometimes it can bite you in the ass

[royal lantern]

and just use it togheter with that cd, or by itself when its off cd

too save 1 keybind

[whole mason]

The math is simple, 325=shiv+env+mutX2+env+mutX2+env. 18*(1+haste) *9=9sec energy gain in shiv. 18 *(1+haste) *16=16sec energy gain outside of shiv.

[warm parcel]

I mean yea my ven macro has /use 13/use 14

So I dont have to care of them

First off

We have simc for math like this

2nd

Theres rng with assa

[hollow escarp]

I have IQD macro in my vendetta with cast on player

[warm parcel]

Especially if you talent into bs

So you cant simply get a static value like this and apply it

[balmy condor]

"math is simple", proceeds to do energy math for a 9 second window for I guess fun?

[halcyon zealot]

me when the actual math comes out

[balmy condor]

I don't even know what we're arguing about at this point

I just see more napkin math with no point

and no sims

so I sleep

[warm parcel]

To really get this into anything thats not just napkin youd have to change the apl and have it show gains

[nimble tartan]

new rogue legoo came out on ptr

[warm parcel]

Simply removing shiv check from envenom line did nothing

[balmy condor]

cool

[warm parcel]

So this may just be another case of "doesnt matter what the fuck you do as assa"

[balmy condor]

usually how that works

[warm parcel]

Ironically right after I just told someone they were playing wrong

[whole mason]

My napkin math only justifies current APL works as I can see no huge pool before shiv on current APL.

[balmy condor]

[warm parcel]

Well it isnt there quite that clearly cause the apl as a whole needs to be understood

[balmy condor]

the APL definitely pools

lmao

[warm parcel]

The very base of assa apl is that it doesnt cast a builder unless it is about to waste energy

[balmy condor]

it just pools on envenom

not on shiv

[warm parcel]

And it builds upon these rules upon rules

Like

Wow isnt set do this do that

[whole mason]

yes, it pools on env not on shiv

[warm parcel]

Its just a bit ass prio list

[balmy condor]

well then what are we arguing about

if you agree with the APL

[whole mason]

not pooling on shiv but on env

[balmy condor]

why is this discussion in existence

[limber lion]

This is the first minute of our Artificer kill. What the fuck is this blasphemy

[hollow escarp]

content

[wary pawn]

im raiding as sin atm, vigor/ep is -26 dps difference over blindside/DS, is it rly that small of a difference?

[limber lion]

130k damage from a single consumable

[balmy condor]

yes

[hollow escarp]

have you did the theotar prepull trick?

[wary pawn]

so i can go vigor always and do fine, its very good i guess

[limber lion]

Ye

[hollow escarp]

oof

with shadowcore oil on one weapon?

[limber lion]

Yep

[hollow escarp]

I'm too lazy for that

and afraid of ninja pulls

[limber lion]

But 130k from one potion is still so fucking dumb

I was doing 50-60k with them on every single pull

Except that one

Where it suddenly did 130k

[halcyon zealot]

i’ve had shadowcores go crazy on a fight like council where by first dance macabre of p1 it’s like top 3 dmg done - never to that extent though

[whole mason]

What is theotar prepull trick?

[hollow escarp]

reminds me of 8.3 when the only twisted appendige logs were crazy lucky guys but I was still coping with that to not farm expedient gear

[muted ridge]

Anyone already posted new Rogue leggos?

[hollow escarp]

before pull you are specced in the middle conduit on theotar, pop phantom fire then swap to nadjia

you get the prolonged effects on combat potions

[balmy condor]

no, wait literally 10 minutes for wowhead to post

[warm parcel]

no cause theres no ptr

[muted ridge]

I got pics if you want

[balmy condor]

I actually could not care

[muted ridge]

I mean

[gloomy fern]

how i get 0 procs

[shut garnet]

whispyr gone mean

[limber lion]

Ye I normally get jack shit from the potion, this was insane

[gloomy fern]

for 1min 4s

[balmy condor]

I'm just tired of every week GUYS PTR BUILD NEW THING JUST RELEASED FIFTY MICROSECONDS AGO DO WE HAVE SIMS IS IT OP DO I SAVE ASH IS IT GOOD DO WE USE IT HOW DO WE USE IT

it's the same fucking thing

every week

[shut garnet]

[balmy condor]

over and over and over

[muted ridge]

he mad

af

[shut garnet]

i dont blame u

ngl

[warm parcel]

wai was there a build actually

[balmy condor]

and I just can't be fucked anymore

[warm parcel]

my client didnt update

[shut garnet]

whispyr doing the zine cycle

[muted ridge]

like

[shut garnet]

and ya there's a build i think

[muted ridge]

you can just ignore those ppl

[hollow escarp]

^

[warm parcel]

thats just what playing rogue does to you

[balmy condor]

whoops

[warm parcel]

no biggie

[balmy condor]

wrong button @muted ridge meant to block

[muted ridge]

LOL

[gloomy fern]

i parsed so poorly today, im sad

[muted ridge]

Imagine blocking me for that

for wanting to show people new leggos

[balmy condor]

it was your idea to ignore those people

[royal lantern]

@balmy condor big dum dum question incomming cus im doing my first huntsman fight as sin in 2days

how do you even open on 2 targets lel

[muted ridge]

it's not like im asking for sims

[balmy condor]

I'm just taking your advice

[hollow escarp]

as a trial?

[warm parcel]

you dont

you nuke the boss

and tpose

[limber lion]

Same, our reclear was the most scuffed shit in the world. We wiped to Huntsman like 4 times, Artificer like 5 times, SSK 3 times

[gloomy fern]

well, they do some stupid tacs for speed kills which dont benefit me on most fights

[limber lion]

Everyone was doing dogshit dps

Idk

[gloomy fern]

and my timings were scuffed af

[hollow escarp]

that's what happens when you extend for so long

[limber lion]

Yeh for sure

Don't remember the earlier fights anymore

[halcyon zealot]

damn where zine been i haven’t seen him around since like 8.3

[balmy condor]

he's always around

[limber lion]

He's in #off-topic quite often

[halcyon zealot]

really

[shut garnet]

he's lurking

dont bait him in sin

[warm parcel]

When you upgrade to mod

[limber lion]

Not much of a spec-channel boy anymore

[warm parcel]

You just stop existing

[halcyon zealot]

true

[royal lantern]

he doesnt even play wow rn if im right

[limber lion]

Yeh, he quit WoW.

[hollow escarp]

[gloomy fern]

most of my kills was just before 4 min

[royal lantern]

like, didnt even played SL

[halcyon zealot]

F

[gloomy fern]

oh well full clear in 1 day so i 100% get dagger next vault at least

[limber lion]

Sheez

We only got to Council and didn't even kill it

[gloomy fern]

unlucky

[limber lion]

I'm scared that we won't kill SLG/Sire

Maybe we will as we've been spending quite a bit of time on them recently

[gloomy fern]

i mean when u go tthe skip unlocked

its nice

u can send them first

[limber lion]

Maybe those are much more fresh in everyone's mind

Yeh that's true

[hollow escarp]

doing the hard bosses first is pretty nice

so you get them out of the way

and have fun

[gloomy fern]

yeah when everyone aint tired and cba

[hollow escarp]

I can't relate but I can imagine

[gloomy fern]

but i did slg kill with 6:50 kill timer and like no adds

was a weird experience

[limber lion]

¨wtf

[hollow escarp]

speed rank farmers

[gloomy fern]

my cds all over the place

yeh they did some wild stuff on every boss (:

[muted ridge]

For anyone interested

[hollow escarp]

wait

wtf is kyrian lego

[muted ridge]

Anima power

made into leggo

[gloomy fern]

i mean having 4 cps give u 7 cp finsihers

cna be kinda big

if u hit them

easier as a sin compared to sub so should be nice burst

[hollow escarp]

bonespike one sounds fun

[quiet valley]

Jesus, the amount of bone spikes to cast will be insane

[balmy condor]

the flag one seems interesting for single target

[warm parcel]

now gime 2 legos and we got 1min cds

[balmy condor]

getting 25 stacks is pretty easy

and that means 1 min flag

[hollow escarp]

[quiet valley]

8 sec vendetta every 1.5 min 🤔

[balmy condor]

fae is disappointing yeah

[warm parcel]

what does the kyrian even mean

4 finishers instead of 1?

[balmy condor]

yeah

that's how I'm reading it

[ashen stream]

That kyrian one tho jfc

[warm parcel]

figures

[balmy condor]

fae and kyrian seems uh

not great

necro doing more aoe

venthyr doing more single target

seems pretty comfy

[hollow escarp]

but with sepsis and that lego you need to press ambush

if I read it correctly

[balmy condor]

correct

[fallen current]

Kyrian -> 🗑

[quiet valley]

Yup

[warm parcel]

I mean garrote consumse it too

Trying to apply silence

[hollow escarp]

yeah

[balmy condor]

the thing I'm interested about

is the necro one

does it spread the dot as well

[quiet valley]

Or cheap shot 🙃

[hollow escarp]

I wanna see if it flurries on outlaw

triple SBS

[shut garnet]

apparently feint got buffed

LOL

[hollow escarp]

[fallen current]

If it spreads the dot.

[balmy condor]

is it only the dot, is it only the instant? is it both? is it the ticks doing aoe?

[quiet valley]

Yeah will second sbs cast give me 4 cp?

[balmy condor]

like that wording is uh

very vague

[hollow escarp]

yep

well so are most legendaries

[balmy condor]

it could just be that the ticks do cleave

or it could be that the instant damage cleave

or the dot cleaves

or everything cleaves

[warm parcel]

sub buffs

and buffing fefint that doesnt work

[hollow escarp]

hey, now we can't complain

[quiet valley]

If it spreads the dot and does instant damage cleave it sounds pretty insane

[fallen current]

If everything cleaves,

[hollow escarp]

backstab and black powder buffed?

[balmy condor]

Tricks of the Trade (Assassination, Outlaw, Subtlety) Increases the target's damage by 15%,

idk what that means

but I'm scared

[hollow escarp]

pvp talent

from outlaw

[balmy condor]

oh thank god

[hollow escarp]

I think

and hope

[clear zinc]

I think its pvp talent? just datamined weird

[balmy condor]

yeah I hope so too

[warm parcel]

yes its OL pvp talent

[balmy condor]

if that's baseline

I'm flipping a table

[warm parcel]

likely just becoming any spec pvp talent

[hollow escarp]

imagine tricksing the monk with karma lol

[clear zinc]

if you look further down it lists it as a pvp talent

[balmy condor]

mmo champ dataminign

is always so hard to read imo

[clear zinc]

id be charging 100k per tricks so really big loss

[hollow escarp]

I'm reading wowhead

they are also confusing

[balmy condor]

great

[loud silo]

it doesnt now why would it change

[balmy condor]

well

we wait

[hollow escarp]

initial damage does flurry

not the dot

[loud silo]

we're talking SBS right?

or did i miss read

[hollow escarp]

was thinking about the extra 2 SBS

from necro legendary

[loud silo]

it will probably act the same

[hollow escarp]

because the new legendary makes it so it hits 2 extra targets

[gloomy fern]

why are u hating on kyrian its big

[loud silo]

i dont see them doing something like that

[gloomy fern]

i mean garotte into 7cp rupture, muti into 7cp env

u gonna go big

[whole mason]

wait, this is not pvp channel.

[hollow escarp]

you're right

[warm parcel]

Doesnt sbs initial flurry

[gloomy fern]

you all just wait for kyrian master race to shine

[loud silo]

Tricks with boomy convoke

[warm parcel]

So Id imagine the 2 additional initials flurry too

[loud silo]

[hollow escarp]

it was outlaw only pvp talent

[balmy condor]

yeh

[hollow escarp]

apparently it's for all now

[balmy condor]

if it's pvp

[limber lion]

Just have 2 rogues tricksing each other.

[balmy condor]

then idc

fuck it

[loud silo]

yeah i know Im just memeing

Tricks with any class that isnt rogue = Stonks

[hollow escarp]

I mean

that's a raid buff

if it actually turns to be more than a pvp talent, Blizzard just wants to go full on buffing others this expac

[loud silo]

god i hope they dont do that

just make smoke bomb a raid cd again

[warm parcel]

Its just an OL pvp talent becomeing any spec pvp talent

Nothing more

[frosty bridge]

yeah 100%

[hollow escarp]

that's what it looks like

[warm parcel]

Most of rogue changes are just pvp talent changes

[hollow escarp]

but was just thinking about it in raids

[frosty bridge]

Wait was this actually a thing?

[warm parcel]

Theres a lot of great changes honestly

[hollow escarp]

yes in WoD I think

[loud silo]

yeah i didnt play rogue back then but it was like 15% DR?

[hollow escarp]

or earlier

[frosty bridge]

What did it do?

Lol that sounds insane

[warm parcel]

10%dr and blocked los like it does now

[hollow escarp]

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Smoke_Bomb

check all changes here

[warm parcel]

So you could use it in 5mans to do certain pulls what not

[frosty bridge]

That sounds pretty awesome

[hollow escarp]

based on the nerfs it had

they considered it to be broken

and it is better than AMZ

[loud silo]

just give it a long ass cd

[hollow escarp]

because it was all damage

[warm parcel]

who woulda guessed

[hollow escarp]

not just magical

[warm parcel]

20% raid dr and los block is broken

[vagrant bison]

when it was introduced in cata it was nuts for pvp, i hated rogs

[warm parcel]

[hollow escarp]

the los part is beyond broken

but small dr is fine

[vagrant bison]

it was also a 2m cd i think (?)

[stoic needle]

YOOOOO

holy shit this sepsis leggo wtf

[hollow escarp]

it sounds interesting

[stoic needle]

oh my god wtf are these

[hollow escarp]

but it can be annoying

[balmy condor]

the sepsis lego seems like the worst

tbh

[hollow escarp]

because targeting

[stoic needle]

really?

[gloomy knoll]

venthyr one seems good for sin

necro seems insanely busted for outlaw

[balmy condor]

if I hand you a lego that just reads "vendetta duration increased by 8 seconds"

would you be excited

[stoic needle]

i mean kinda

[drifting cloud]

the kyrian one looks way worse doesnt it?

[gloomy knoll]

no

i don't need more vendetta time

[balmy condor]

yeah the kyrian one also seems not great

[gloomy knoll]

it's already long enough

and you don't get energy past the first few seconds lol

[stoic needle]

28 second vendetta

[dawn ivy]

the kyrian one is probably bad for pve

[balmy condor]

it isn't even just vend, it's also AR

which would be awful

[stoic needle]

would it?

[balmy condor]

AR does nothing

[dawn ivy]

but for pvp the kyrian leggo could be nutty

[stoic needle]

how is more energy regen for us bad

[balmy condor]

because it's 8 seconds of AR every minute and a half

remember how strong celerity was when it was all specs

[halcyon zealot]

that necro one gonna have you pressing sbs every global in aoe with 5 charges and resets lol

[balmy condor]

it was our 3rd best

[grave dock]

re: tricks, I think the wowhead formatting makes it clearer:

Thick as Thieves Your Tricks of the Trade now increases your and the friendly target's damage by 10%15% for 6 sec.
Specializations changed from Outlaw to Assassination/Outlaw/Subtlety

[balmy condor]

and celerity is MUCH stronger

than that

[grave dock]

"thick as thieves" is the PVP talent

[stoic needle]

hmm okay

[gloomy knoll]

it's pvp only

we checked

[grave dock]

i'm pretty sure it's just all specs get that as a pvp talent now

[gloomy knoll]

it used to be outlaw only

now it's all 3

[grave dock]

right

but mmo's formatting sucks

[warm parcel]

can we make moroes delete any message with tricks in it

[balmy condor]

feelcraft says necro one is huge for aoe, venthyr one is pretty good single target

and that's about it

[grave dock]

it warms my heart that you are exactly as I remember you

[kind talon]

Anyone here venthyr?

[limber lion]

Venth is probably pretty dank because you get to sync it with every Vendetta.

[kind talon]

Yo ceve

[limber lion]

Or mostly at least.

[balmy condor]

yeh

[polar cape]

kyrian could be good if its 1 finisher per anima charge combo

[kind talon]

How many cp do you get per flag

[limber lion]

Sup

[warm parcel]

igotchufam

[limber lion]

Like 24-29

[kind talon]

Hmmmm

[dawn ivy]

20-25 is my average

[kind talon]

Is that like

29 with lust 24 without or?

Just crit luck changing it

[dawn ivy]

oh thats true im thinking of non lusted

[limber lion]

Yeah something like that.

[warm parcel]

yikes

[dawn ivy]

24-29 with lust sounds better

[balmy condor]

[warm parcel]

next tiers look is literally legos

[limber lion]

[hollow escarp]

isn't that lego set?

[balmy condor]

why can the art team not make decent leather

they're good at everything else

[limber lion]

They even got Mail right this tier

[warm parcel]

ye its legos I think

[hollow escarp]

yeah, leather sucks

[limber lion]

Mail is fucking sick

[grave dock]

is that the leather?

it looks like a mail set

[limber lion]

Nah the mail one is actually good.

[dawn ivy]

i assume thats just placeholder

[whole mason]

necro leggo is like holy, vent leggo is like devil, the rest ones are...

[fallen current]

That’s the leather one.

[dawn ivy]

theres no way they go that lazy

[grave dock]

I doubt it

[warm parcel]

this is the rogue elite set yes

[grave dock]

are you an elite rogue tho

[uneven plume]

Guys

Tricks buff?

[limber lion]

No.

[uneven plume]

😮

[grave dock]

oh man

[split veldt]

https://tenor.com/view/eye-looking-around-staying-vigilant-gif-10055847

[uneven plume]

Lmaooo I knew it was too good to be true

[limber lion]

Good thing it's 1am and I can go to sleep

[hollow escarp]

pvp buff

[shy dust]

wym yikes

that looks sick

[hollow escarp]

hold your horses

[warm parcel]

no chief

its ugly

[whole mason]

Now it depends on the 1% vers

[warm parcel]

and lazy

its literally legos

[hollow escarp]

it's the legendary set

nothing special

[warm parcel]

like where the fuck are the cool tier sets we used to get

not these raid themed lame sets

[grave dock]

they're uh

[limber lion]

9.2 apparently

[grave dock]

back when tier sets existed

[split veldt]

wait the tricks buff is pvp only?

im confused

[limber lion]

Whispyr writing a pin, mark my words.

[stoic needle]

1min flag

[limber lion]

[warm parcel]

tricks isnt a buff

its literally pvp talent

[hollow escarp]

it was outlaw only, now it's all specs apparently

[warm parcel]

that had spec change

moroes

[grave dock]

I thought weak was giving me shit for explaining the tricks thing but i'm pretty sure he's trying to pre empt the flood

[warm parcel]

delete tricks

[stoic needle]

1 min flag sounds pretty sick

[hollow escarp]

no

[split veldt]

https://tenor.com/view/push-pin-thumb-tack-gif-5359523

[grave dock]

you cannot stop it

[split veldt]

where are you seeing 1 min vendettas

[limber lion]

1min flag

He means flag

With the new covenant legendary

[stoic needle]

having flag for every vendetta

sorry i got my words mixed up

[hollow escarp]

that means not playing doomblade

[limber lion]

1min Flag + Duskwalkers?

[warm parcel]

And yea Im anticipating about 2500 more questions bout tricks

[limber lion]

For sure

[hollow escarp]

^^

yeap

[stoic needle]

this would actually be fucking insane

[grave dock]

well

yea

[hollow escarp]

I can see it

[grave dock]

it's a patch

[balmy condor]

All of our PTR data is feelcrafting and early sims atm. We won't have a full picture of things for a couple weeks with tuning etc. Please try to avoid stating things as absolute truths. All will be revealed with time. Some initial feels/sims on legendaries:
Kyrian doesn't seem all that great.
Fae is in the running for the worst legendary to exist.
Necro is a good m+ legendary, most likely better than zold. Very strong in aoe
Venthyr early sims have it around 2.5-3% behind doomblade, if it is implemented how we think. The PTR version is bugged in a million different ways, making it hard to see true intention of this one.

[limber lion]

Whispyr about to write a poem in the pins about the PTRT changes

There we go

[limber lion]

That's the one

[hollow escarp]

can I answer all tricks questions?

[warm parcel]

whysipiry

add that this is feelswise

not dpswise

[balmy condor]

TRICKS CHANGE IS A PVP TALENT PLEASE STOP

[grave dock]

you're a PVP talent

[limber lion]

🙂

Alright EU boys, time to sleep

[balmy condor]

there

better?

[stoic needle]

feint got a buff

[grave dock]

gonna be pretty funny when it turns out that it actually is a PVE change

[hollow escarp]

night Cev

[warm parcel]

perfect

[grave dock]

and we can go back to siege of orgrimmar

[warm parcel]

id show you

if ptr didnt crash every other second

[grave dock]

I know

[stoic needle]

yo holy shit though

deathspike in M+

[warm parcel]

really unstable build

[stoic needle]

[warm parcel]

raidtesting gona be impossible

[loud light]

9.1 any day now

lol

[grave dock]

death spike is good but

idk

[balmy condor]

I'm sure the fights will work perfectly without testing

[grave dock]

on smaller packs, you can get spike on most right now anyway

the bonus is the splash damage and saving some globals

[stoic needle]

yeah but this makes it even easier

[balmy condor]

the new legendary combinations I need to sim for pins

[limber lion]

Have fun Whyspir

We'll be cheering you on

Stream the process

[balmy condor]

I will

undoubtably

[warm parcel]

wym hard work

[stoic needle]

also what is this going to mean for the cp generation

does 1 spike give 3cp??

[warm parcel]

hes just gona click his python script once

[fallen current]

🚀🌕

[warm parcel]

and its gona run it

[stoic needle]

im gonna log onto the ptr and craft it

[kind talon]

4

[balmy condor]

imagine having scripts

[warm parcel]

then you just copy pasta and boom

maybe make some

[balmy condor]

yeah

[kind talon]

One spike gives 4 if there are 5 targets

[balmy condor]

I honestly should steal mystlers

[kind talon]

3*

[stoic needle]

sbs just completely replaces fok

[warm parcel]

mystler at one point in legion gave me his and showed me how to use it

it was nice

[hollow escarp]

doomblade still better than all new legendaries

[limber lion]

I hope not.

[kind talon]

Venthyr one

[balmy condor]

yeah I'll have to ask him about it

[kind talon]

Could easily be better than doom blade

[grave dock]

I think it means "the ability will still be bugged in some fashion, just with new bugs"

[gloomy knoll]

bone spike cleaves and the additional ones that cleave also bladeflurry it's bonespike ception

gonna get nerfed forsure

otherwise M+ is 3 rogues now

[stoic needle]

[limber lion]

guys what covenant is the best in 9.1??

[stoic needle]

triple bone spike blade flurrying sounds amazing

[gloomy knoll]

you come out of mantle

[grave dock]

it's great for outlaw, yea

[balmy condor]

idk, aren't you the one doing all the ptr sims?

[gloomy knoll]

launch bonespikes

[grave dock]

ve'nari is the best 9.1 covenant

[stoic needle]

Deathspike on wrists or gloves?

[limber lion]

Ye with my buddies JPC and Infexious

[balmy condor]

[stoic needle]

gloves for stats or wrists for eventual 2 leggos?

[warm parcel]

took bout 20 logins but we got in

[limber lion]

Wow I can't believe that's baseline now!!!

Okay, I'm off for real.

[warm parcel]

[stoic needle]

i wonder if the venthyr legendary gives cdr during the first 12 seconds or during the full 24

if its the full 24 it's going to unbelievably busted

[balmy condor]

it reads like the 12 seconds

where it ramps

"while flag is active"

the flag debuff goes away after that first 12 seconds

[stoic needle]

but that could easily be the entire buff's active duration

[whole mason]

I think necrolords should be happy for the leggo as it has a specific usage in keys. Vent needs to wait for the % vers.

[grave gazelle]

that necro legendary sounds so fun lol

[balmy condor]

seems questionable at best that the cdr is tied to the haste buff when nothing else is

[grave gazelle]

aoe bs sounds nuts.

[balmy condor]

you get the haste, and assumingly the vers from the first 12 seconds

dunno why it would be the full 24 for the cdr

[whole mason]

! you mean 1% vers means like 1% for each cp?

[balmy condor]

yeh

just like the haste atm

[whole mason]

oh my! 30stacks of vers in Ved with 30stacks of haste and lust...

[stoic needle]

gonna test this

[winter gale]

Is assa being brought to Sire Progress mainly for ST dmg or? I stopped raiding since 9.0. as 6/10 but guild reactivated me. Is there any tip for us on that fight?

[hollow escarp]

true

[warm parcel]

Now a stack is 1% haste
with this lego one stack is 1% haste 1% vers and 1s cdr

[hollow escarp]

I could craft all of them

[warm parcel]

quite simple

[hollow escarp]

on PTR

[balmy condor]

that's why it's brought to raid in general

sin isn't good at anything else

2 target is good

but anything more than that is pretty meh

[stoic needle]

it's good at looking cool

[gloomy knoll]

yea sin 1-2 target is where it's at

[winter gale]

Reason why I ask is couse I did one night tonight and I am in 1st soak and right after goes Blood Price and then I cannot cope with others up until end of p1. Is it just me or its how it is? 😂

[ionic vault]

do you use numbing and instant poison as sin?

[royal lantern]

@balmy condor DID YOU SEE TRICKS????????

sorry

[balmy condor]

that's how it is

[balmy condor]

we don't have instant, we have deadly

but yes

[ionic vault]

sorry i meant deadly

[winter gale]

Good, as I am 1st on Sire Dmg and on both leutenants

[drowsy snow]

p1 adds just get blasted by dk/dh/mage/etc. you're there to kill named adds in p2 and p3 sire execute dam

[ionic vault]

also, how would you use SBS as a necro sin rogue on ST fights?

[winter gale]

Ty @balmy condor, good man always responding ❤️

[royal lantern]

you use it as a cp generator

[stoic needle]

equipping the new legendary crashed my client

[ionic vault]

Tryan what priority does it have?

[royal lantern]

too much power for you

[fallen current]

Very legendary

[stoic needle]

you use it during shiv or during marrowed gemstones

[prime geode]

that necro leggo looks yummy for aoe

[gloomy knoll]

@balmy condor what do i put venthyr leggo on

and what stats

[balmy condor]

dis dick

[hollow escarp]

max just said on stream that assassination will be bis in cleave fights in raid

bot bis, he used a different word

[gloomy knoll]

i mean if our necro leggo go's live we're just bis at everything

[hollow escarp]

and stinky boys forever

[gloomy knoll]

gonna have to make 2 rogues venth sin and necro outlaw

[shy dust]

@balmy condor

the power on ptr

works for all of flag

[balmy condor]

all 24?

[stoic needle]

[shy dust]

yes

[stoic needle]

WHAT DID I TELL YOU

[balmy condor]

what the fuck is that

[hollow escarp]

[balmy condor]

I guess I just need to smooth out my brain when reading changes

and assume that blizzard will do the thing no one expects

[shy dust]

o no

[livid temple]

Venthyr legendary seems very uninspired... seems weak

[stoic needle]

apply blizz logic

[shy dust]

its just giga bugged

every finisher

[gloomy knoll]

wait

wait

[whole mason]

you mean the cdr?

[shy dust]

lowers its cd

LOL

[warm parcel]

o shit

is max live

[gloomy knoll]

the cdr is 24 seconds

[balmy condor]

has been yeah

[warm parcel]

missing out on all the spice

fuck

[shy dust]

every finisher

[warm parcel]

why yall not telling me

[shy dust]

lowers the cd currently

[hollow escarp]

WTF

that's getting nerfed

[shy dust]

still though if it lasts all of flag

i was getting it down to like 40 seconds

after it was done

[stoic needle]

[hollow escarp]

I mean

I'll take that

[warm parcel]

no

fuck that

I want it to sync

[hollow escarp]

you can hold flag for vendetta

[stoic needle]

the sbs leggo cleaves the initial cast

doesn't look like the dot cleaves as well

[hollow escarp]

it's fine

[whole mason]

That makes sense for Euphoria sync!

[balmy condor]

yeah that's what I was afraid of

not crazy

but still good

[stoic needle]

it's gonna be insane in M+

[hollow escarp]

for outlaw even more

[stoic needle]

probably better than zoldyck

oh yeah let me check if it flurries

[hollow escarp]

please

[chrome mirage]

The Kyrian lego

[gloomy knoll]

yea it's nuts for outlaw in M+

might not be great for us outside of like

[stoic needle]

it does

[gloomy knoll]

a few fights

[hollow escarp]

#subtlety

[vestal abyss]

Am i reading patch notes wrong or are they increasing sass dmg by 51%?

[hollow escarp]

probably reading wrong

aaah

it's the aura buff

[halcyon zealot]

yeah we are getting 51% aura buff

[hollow escarp]

I think Whyspir had a pin

or message about this

[whole mason]

Could you please test kyrian leggo? does it charges 4 times of different number of CP?

[balmy condor]

we're currently at 51%

that's just the aura

[stoic needle]

i don't have a kyrian character

so no i can't

i guess i could change

yeah uh hold on then i guess

[hollow escarp]

you are still time gated

I could transfer for free

as I was never kyrian

[stoic needle]

i've never been kyrian before

[hollow escarp]

make a new copy character as well

[gloomy fern]

kyrians new will give u a 7cp finisher on 4 of ur cps its op im telling you

[vestal abyss]

What aura?

[hollow escarp]

the buffs we got

over the expansion

[stoic needle]

i'm hoping that it does 4 animacharged cp in a row

consume one, then there's another

until you do it 4 times

[gloomy knoll]

still bad

[stoic needle]

i mean 4 7cp finishers in a row would be pretty good

[gloomy fern]

nah its better that 4 randomly cps are charged at teh asme time

[whole mason]

4 different ones or 4 times on a specific one?

[stoic needle]

we dont know until i make it and test it lol

[dawn ivy]

i assumed it would be 2,3,4,5

[gloomy fern]

unless ur sub with st

[balmy condor]

every spec has a hidden buff to all it's abilities, which is the aura. When you see "spec does X% more damage" in the patch notes, they're tuning that knob

[whole mason]

You are the best!

[balmy condor]

so sin is at 51% on that hidden thing

and that's what it is right now

[ionic vault]

if you end up at max combo point but shiv comes off CD do you shiv and overcap cp before doing envenom?

[balmy condor]

you shiv

[ionic vault]

ty

[vestal abyss]

I see thanks

[supple pelican]

New patch notes?

[balmy condor]

ptr yeah

[supple pelican]

Can I get a link? Work VPN

[hollow escarp]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/new-covenant-legendaries-for-rogue-paladin-and-shaman-in-patch-9-1-ptr-build-321987

[supple pelican]

[red bloom]

havnt looked at them and im already celebrating, ignorance is bliss

[viral vigil]

I want to know how that Venthyr one works.

[balmy condor]

#wowheadnews also has them

[hollow escarp]

forgot we have that channel here

[balmy condor]

it's bugged as fuck atm from what people are seeing

[viral vigil]

At least now Kyrian can have consistent anima charges

[cerulean nest]

on inerva, do you spend time dotting up the adds or just tunnel?

[lost horizon]

i haven't played sin/venth this tier, does the CDR effect from the new lego seem gucci?

[balmy condor]

big one

[balmy condor]

pin

seems okay tho

[cerulean nest]

kk

[lost horizon]

saint

[gloomy fern]

kinda depends how long they live in ur raid

[lost horizon]

a 1min CD that's nutty

[tired citrus]

So do we know if you can switch covenants freely on ptr so we can test these leggos?

[lost horizon]

if these really end up as '2nd legos' that would be wild

[cerulean nest]

small ones dont seem worth it, big one is mostly cleaved so stays up a decent amount of time

[balmy condor]

cannot

[halcyon zealot]

i put a 2cp rupture on one small interva add if i can because i’m a kick slave but might not be optimal

[shy dust]

this plus dustwalkers

[lost horizon]

do you currently hold flag for vendetta?

[shy dust]

🤔

no

[lost horizon]

isn't the vendetta cdr on duskwalkers kinda bad?

[balmy condor]

another pin

I'm 2/2 baby

[shy dust]

its like 66 or so second cd

[balmy condor]

it got buffed in 9.0.5

[lost horizon]

oh that's not too shabby, i thought it ended up like 80+sec

[balmy condor]

it's pretty decent

[gloomy knoll]

wait

[lost horizon]

didn't realize, nice

[gloomy knoll]

so that shit would make

1 min vendetta build

line up with flag

a thing

[lost horizon]

that's kinda sick

[balmy condor]

if you had 2 lego slots

[gloomy knoll]

kinda stiffy

[balmy condor]

yes

[stoic needle]

with 2 legendaries*

[balmy condor]

which we don't

[tired citrus]

And i know you said please stop with the tricks change on wowhead the tricks change exists on both pvp section and general section probably a mistake i guess(wouldnt be bad to have that niche back imho)

[balmy condor]

so not worth talking about

[lost horizon]

fuck i don't wanna play venth LOL

[gloomy knoll]

i like flag

[lost horizon]

yet 😉

pls..

LOL

[gloomy knoll]

helps smooth out sins

low apm

[balmy condor]

esra

I will slap you

[gloomy knoll]

what

lol

[stoic needle]

MuH LoW ApM

[balmy condor]

why can't you just let sin be a slow spec

[gloomy knoll]

thrill seeker + flag is nice

because then i button mash waiting for 50 energy

and my finger hurts

[shy dust]

necro feels so much better

[stoic needle]

stop button mashing?

[shy dust]

dauntless duelist just feels like shit

i dont care waht anyone says

[stoic needle]

dont blame the spec for you being a zoomer

[balmy condor]

sin is the only slow spec still left

let it be

[gloomy knoll]

xD

[balmy condor]

stop trying to make it outlaw

[gloomy knoll]

i just want press button

[balmy condor]

then play outlaw

[stoic needle]

go play fury

[gloomy knoll]

outlaw boring

[hollow escarp]

you can press faster on sin too

won't make a difference though

[tired citrus]

i guess you mean from rogue specs arms is 10 times slower

[balmy condor]

or survival, or any of the other melee specs

[warm parcel]

hows arms slow lol

[lost horizon]

i haven't played necro sin

[warm parcel]

arms was basically gcdcapped before ring

[lost horizon]

my gear is just giga for outlaw so i somehow ended up being a monospec pleb

[gloomy knoll]

it's fun you just dump spikes in shiv windows

[lost horizon]

i blame keys

[balmy condor]

arms 10x slower

[warm parcel]

ye chief

and this is without deadly calm

[lost horizon]

he meant %

[stoic needle]

necro sin

[lost horizon]

e z

[balmy condor]

still too high with 10%

we aimed for 1000% and landed at about 8%

unlucky

[halcyon zealot]

you guys think at any point in the xpac we’ll be able to have 2 active covenants at once? like old school dual spec

[hollow escarp]

[fleet whale]

unlikely

[balmy condor]

doubtful yeah

2 legendaries is probably in the cards

[fleet whale]

at best, we'll be able to swap with no downtime

[hollow escarp]

I wouldn't mind but sounds against the "meaningful choice" idea they keep pushing

[balmy condor]

2 covenants is very very very doubtful

[fleet whale]

2 covenants would break too many things too

[halcyon zealot]

yeah wishful thinking, and i didn’t mean active at once, i kinda meant the no downtime for switching thing

[hollow escarp]

I'd rather have them let us swap freely rather than having 2 covenants at the same time

[fleet whale]

oh that, maybe

[halcyon zealot]

oh i can go venthyr for raid then go necro for keys til next raid day

then go back, etc

[hollow escarp]

just like swapping essences

who knows

[halcyon zealot]

yeah i worded it wrong, i didn’t mean 2 at once

[balmy condor]

I feel like they would've already done that

[odd hazel]

i'd rather to be able to switch between 2 covs then have 2 leggos

[balmy condor]

they kinda dug in their heels on swapping

[echo cargo]

That flagellation leggo looks cool

[balmy condor]

would be weird for them to change course at this point

if the huge uproar at the start of the expac didn't convince them to let us swap freely

then I don't think they would randomly add in that option now that the uproar is gone

[odd hazel]

think that venthyr leggo will be used at all whisp?

[balmy condor]

I think it might be really good yeah

[cerulean nest]

also when all the adds are grouped up during inerva should i FoK? or just keep pumping mutilates

[balmy condor]

seems like a lot of single target

not sure if it competes with doomblade

[fleet whale]

kyrian one looks garbage

[balmy condor]

but certainly seems promising

[balmy condor]

fok on 4

[fleet whale]

unless if i'm not reading it right

[odd hazel]

kyrian is garbo

[balmy condor]

kyrian and fae look trash

yeah

[echo cargo]

I wonder if the 1% for vers is just flat

[fleet whale]

well, i guess it depends

[echo cargo]

Or if it had the same effect as the haste

[fleet whale]

do you get 4 anima cps at the same time

[balmy condor]

scales with finisher just like haste

[fleet whale]

like you can use 4 anima finishers in a row

or is it just a qol leggo

still not great either way

[echo cargo]

How many CP do you normally spend in flag?

I don’t pay attention lmaoo