assassination

[frigid kestrel]

This can be used on lanterns and gives auto 6 stacks

[stoic needle]

Wow

Yeah people definitely aren't doing that lol

[frigid kestrel]

if two people drop you will auto get 10 stacls

[stoic needle]

Half the time people never use the lanterns in the middle of the instance

[frigid kestrel]

i imagine blizz will fix because fun is detected

[timber basalt]

that toy is like 100k on the ah btw

[frigid kestrel]

Also get the WA for General Kall's Blink Step, makes the gauntlet super easy

[timber basalt]

after the exploit was discovered

[frigid kestrel]

I got 6 for 1k a pop

and then a week later when everyone realized what it did sold them back for 250,000

[stoic needle]

[timber basalt]

stonks

[wary ice]

lol thats hilarious

[deep dagger]

Is there any WA, that keeps track of total amount of bleeds out?

Super quick example

[simple wadi]

@frigid kestrel Do you just run away from her or try to max melee? I refuse to run a 20 sanguine simply because I hate the gauntlet

[plain thistle]

yes, I use one since legion/bfa

1s ill get it for you

[deep dagger]

Thanks @plain thistle

[plain thistle]

cant find, let me export mine

[heavy trail]

i have one for rup, sbsand garr but i just add a text to my icons

[deep dagger]

Does it track Deadly Poisons too?

I like that one though Ralazz, mind if I ?

[heavy trail]

yep hold on its a hack of afenars

[plain thistle]

https://wago.io/tyD92vLbS

just delete everything that isnt garrote/rupture multi target tracker

[heavy trail]

in the middle of a nother dos

[deep dagger]

ai - And thanks Jhon! I'll see which one I prefer

[heavy trail]

should i be tracking deadlyh poison or does it matter that much 🙂 ?

[plain thistle]

tracking deadly should not be needed

you apply pretty easily when using FoK

[deep dagger]

Yeah, it's a miniscule thing

[plain thistle]

but I would like to see how you did @heavy trail , mine has a lot of custom code and I dont have one for spikes yet

[heavy trail]

give me like 10 mins

[plain thistle]

maybe you did in a simpler way

[stoic needle]

I'd also be interested to see the way you track spikes

I'm tracking the number of spikes up with nameplates but it doesn't work if things move out of your camera field of view

[plain thistle]

when I got mine we didnt have multi-target trigger in WA, not sure if thats how you did

[stoic needle]

I tried the multi target trigger but it didn't work, maybe I wasn't doing it properly

I made this to track the number of garottes and ruptures https://wago.io/WULju2fnt

Gonna combine it and my sbs wa

[grave dock]

is there a reason to track the number of spikes?

on AOE you're just putting it on any new target when you have a charge anyway

[stoic needle]

So that you know how many cp you'll get from a spike

[grave dock]

I suppose

[stoic needle]

So you don't overcap

[plain thistle]

and if a target you put a spike on dies

[grave dock]

I dunno if it's just me, but it seems like the CP you receive from spike is slightly delayed

[stoic needle]

Yeah because of blizzards janky ass recent change

The ability is just buggy as fuck

[grave dock]

I just levelled this dude so I didn't play it before the change

[stoic needle]

Instead of making the ability give 2cp by default +1cp for every extra spike

[frigid kestrel]

Just run away from Kall, doesnt even have to be that far

[stoic needle]

It gives 1cp+1for every active spike bleed including the one you just used

So it's delayed

Supremely jank

I think it has to do with the travel time of the spike and the bleed not applying until the spike actually hits

[grave dock]

wait, you're saying it's always supposed to give 2 then?

[stoic needle]

Yes

[grave dock]

if it's 1+1 for every bleed, and the bleed you just used counts

i've definitely had it give 1 before

[stoic needle]

And sometimes it just gives 1 yeah

It's buggy

[grave dock]

i've only been playing outlaw but that shouldn't matter

don't even know how you optimize as assassination, I assume you get the bleed up ASAP and don't overcap charges

beyond that do you just fill at -1 CP?

(on ST)

[limber lion]

No

You use SBS during Gemstone procs or during cooldowns.

[stoic needle]

On st you use it during shiv windows or marrowed gemstone windows

[grave dock]

what's the advantage of using it during shiv windows?

more efficient CP generation = more envenoms in shiv?

[limber lion]

Pretty much.

[ornate lake]

Whats the reason why people some necro assa rogues are running DS or vigor?

they sim it I guess but i thought venthyr is the convenant for DS

[heavy trail]

darn some fucker got the trinket a healer didnt even want it that much

[limber lion]

DS starts pulling ahead with high amounts of haste.

[ornate lake]

So the necro rogues got that much haste they do more with DS

You know cutoff point by any chance?

[subtle kiln]

there isn’t one. it’ll be a balance of what you have with crit and haste so your best bet is to sim with talent and gem/enchant options.

mastery gains value for necro. it’s all give and takes

[limber lion]

Yeah, there are no breakpoints. Talents, gear, legendary, covenant, conduits, soulbinds, enchants, food, potions, oils - literally everything affects which gear/talents are best for you

[heavy trail]

https://wago.io/JVdutGOz0
https://wago.io/4pfAFZPR0

I didn't edit it really so it might not be perfect but those are mine SBS one is a bit different than the other bleed ones but pretty much the same

Would just move the top one over the icon from the second one

[plain thistle]

ty

[ornate lake]

Cheers for the feedback guys, researchign stuff for tonight's progression on sludge 🙂

[deep dagger]

@heavy trail And your combined bleed tracker?

[plain thistle]

yeah, multi-target with %matchCount, that what I was thinking

[heavy trail]

https://wago.io/NJH5R4xd-/32 i hacked this guys just to use the bleed strength stuff otherwise i just used the same sorta thing for all over it (dot count and the debuff tracker with desaturate non active

[deep dagger]

I'm really monkey at digging into WA's - Is there any way you can upload yours?

[heavy trail]

Sure hold one 🙂

[deep dagger]

Thanks!

[heavy trail]

Note that you will need the one i just linked above if you want the bleed empowered colors to work on the text for it

https://wago.io/s3MiVhYDQ

You can go in and disable the ones you are not using but keep the libraries of custom stuff loaded (that's what I did)

I never hacked for rupture yet will do that now 🙂

For the bleed count it's the same as the sbs one except you change the trigger to garrote , rupture etc

I change the colors a bit too

[deep dagger]

Thank you so much @heavy trail !

[trim oak]

If you could use only 1 legendary for assa in m+, what would that be? In the pinned message Doomblade seems best overall

[fallen current]

zold

[radiant fossil]

zoldyck probably

[trim oak]

Even in non-fortified weeks?

[limber lion]

Yes.

Don't play Doomblade in m+.

[trim oak]

Uhm ok thanks

And in a raid single target scenario? It's still best Zoldyck? (I run Outlaw usually)

But thinking about switching to Assa in ST focused fights

[pastel shale]

Raid ST best is usually Doomblade

But Zoldyck is fine if you're only crafting 1 sin leggo and want one for raid and M+

[trim oak]

I'll start from there this week 🙂 thanks a lot!

[umbral sigil]

we using envenom with 4 cp a lot?

or should i mut at 4 cp

or is a throwing knife ok to use there?

[limber lion]

Are you playing with Vigor or Deeper Stratagem?

[umbral sigil]

vigor

[limber lion]

With Vigor you would use finishers (Rupture/CT/Envenom) at 4-5 combo points.

[umbral sigil]

ok cool

[limber lion]

You don't use Mutilate/PK to get it to max

Always max-1

[umbral sigil]

and is there a set amount of energy to store before shiving? im only getting 2 sometimes 3(with ambush procs) muts in the window

[limber lion]

Read the pins.

[umbral sigil]

but if i wait too long my garrote and rup fall off

ah ok

[limber lion]

You should be reapplying garrote/rupture before Shiv comes up

During the pandemic window

Pins has a lot of great info

And so does

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[limber lion]

^ these

[heavy trail]

run 28 i think now? kinda easier to just run below 4s cuz so many fuckers are irritating spending so much time "dpsing" all the spitefuls grrr

[stoic needle]

unless you're super geared i wouldn't waste conquest upgrading a low item

[heavy trail]

this is getting tiring though after 28 runs lol i guess you mean valor

[limber lion]

Yup

I've only upgraded my IQD and Phial and never used valor for anything else, but it might not be the case for you.

It is a scarce resource after all

And spending it all on a single trinket might be a bad call in the end.

[heavy trail]

i used valor on my weapons so far only so i got ton of it

[short hamlet]

28 runs of what?

I've done 31 runs of Plaguefall for a Poxstorm for my OutLUL set. Its mind numbing at this point

[limber lion]

Ya'll going hard

[spice spire]

@limber lion obviously I missed it but congrats on CE dog!

[gilded belfry]

And I got both the Phial and Poxstorm on one run. Only bad news is both started as 184. RNG gods live

[limber lion]

[heavy trail]

28 runs of DOS last 2-3 days

should i run a 0? lol

[short hamlet]

IQD?

[heavy trail]

yeah

[short hamlet]

I feel like that should be an easier one to get being that every dps spec can have it on their loot table

I've seen it a few times my self, but at the end of the day rng is rng

[heavy trail]

yeah 4--5 guys got it while iw as there

but they all needed it

[short hamlet]

[limber lion]

Soon™️

[short hamlet]

I feel like weapons are much harder to get, but I could be wrong.

Weapon type + primary restriction feels very limiting

[gilded belfry]

no question. I havent had one weapon in my vault the entire expansion. Finally gave up and got 220s through PvP

[heavy trail]

ill get it soon then get a better one in my chest so i can bash my head against the table 🙂

[short hamlet]

I've been very lucky with my daggers. My outlaw set is struggle bussing hard tho

[sharp nebula]

deeper strategem 4 cp assa rogue finisher or mutilate ?

[undone eagle]

Why does many groups decline rogues this week? Is it cuz its easy week so they wanna have blast AoE specs??

[strange python]

Spiteful probably

[pastel shale]

I specced Outlaw for one chest and it's the only chest I've gotten a 226 wep from

[short hamlet]

Thoughts and prayers for your roulette box tomorrow

Well all get loot, soon (TM)

[willow isle]

Is there any downside of skipping excile in NW with cloak?

[short hamlet]

You get a crit buff when you get back IIRC

So if you have coolies coming up you might get more value that way

[gilded belfry]

because folks think, with some accuracy, that Spiteful is punitive to melee.

[undone eagle]

So they prefer only 1 melee in group?

beside tank

[short hamlet]

^ this and because people are meta slaves. It's the same reason that you see +10s and +12s wanting lust when at this point in the season if you've been even remotely gearing out your character you don't need lust for even all of the dungeons on +15

[undone eagle]

Then I guess im skipping into queues for this week, been trying so hard and 10% chance that i get invited

literally boring

I talk about 20's Keys

It also affect I guess

Its pretty boring when i only need 20's but get declined , imma just wait for new affix lel

[gilded belfry]

sometimes. I Saw some pretty hysterical big pulls in DoS and Spires this week where we AoEd down a bunch of little bastards at once and to be fair the spiteful spawns were definitely more dangerous than the original mobs

[short hamlet]

I think you just need to budget room to kite in that situation

Will the tank do that? That's another story lol

[gilded belfry]

more power to you if you're pugging 20s! tbh im perfectly content at 15 and just about any comp works there anyway

[limber lion]

I've been having a really rough time getting to keys as well.

When you get to 20's+, you really need to find yourself a group to do keys with.

[undone eagle]

Yes

[gusty mirage]

Pugging 20s is a nightmare. Tanks are so hit or miss

[undone eagle]

Im trying to find a team and a guild

still guildless since faction change hah

once ive achieved this goal i can breath again 😂

[gusty mirage]

That’s why my vdh has been getting geared. I’m the tank now

[undone eagle]

now im living in the pug hell

[gusty mirage]

[queen herald]

Yo, do you guys press crimson tempest in single target if talented?

[sinful cradle]

Outside of shiv window yes

[subtle tundra]

i got a taste of high key pushing by playing with a 2.8k premade two weeks ago, and this week i just couldnt bring myself to play since pugging is so much worse than playing with actual players

[strange python]

Pugs r hopeless

was doing +12 for some valor, everyone in group had 1400 main ios and there was 32 deaths at the end

[cerulean nest]

any new news on 9.1 changes for rogue? last I checked it was very minimal

[gilded belfry]

isnt it the same valor for any m+? I've just spammed super low ones for speed runs

[lean notch]

Is there a general consensus for Vial vs Skulkers on Sludge? 220 Vial sims better 25dps better for me on Patchwerk vs 226 Skulkers, but cant really figure out how to sim Sludge vulnerability phases properly, google shits itself. Thinking about Skulkers hitting for 200% and potential crits on pillars probably outweights the Phial, but a lot of top ranks still use phial, but idk if that's due to them potentially not having it.

[hollow river]

Anyone know the optimal WA/add on set up for sin? For tracking bleeds/pandemics CDs etc

[spice spire]

Former rogue chad becomes VDH chad

[supple compass]

shoulder and hands are same budget right

[strange python]

It is same for all key levels but was late the time and not many groups up

[hollow river]

Best conduits for necro raid/m+?

[spice spire]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[hollow river]

Ah didn’t realize those specified ty

[spice spire]

No problem! 🙂

[hollow river]

So basically lethal poisons and poisoned katar in m+, well placed steel and lethal poisons ST

Maybe ST in plaguefall?

[limber lion]

Depends on your covenant.

For Necro it's SF for everything.

[wary ice]

Most people spam 12-15 because the loot requires less valor to upgrade to a useable level

since valor is a capped resource

[stoic needle]

PK is bad in enough dungeons that i'd never use it because of conduit energy alone

[wary ice]

PK probably feels really good tbh. Extra 5% crit is the juice tbh

[stoic needle]

sbs gives me enough cp that i dont care about an extra 5% crit on fok

[silent stratus]

wouldnt it be better to mut -> Even -> mut during the MA window? I see that the RH guide suggests mut -> SnD -> mut

[stiff thicket]

Hello everyone 😄 just one question : Human or Night elf for raiding and MM+ please ?

i'm wondering if the human +2% spassive is good

[stoic needle]

an envenom is less damage than getting up SND

[limber lion]

Night Elf is better in M+, but doesn't really matter.

[stiff thicket]

Thank you 😄

[silent stratus]

what if mut -> even -> mut -> SnD? atleast u use the 100% crit of MA on even

and delay SnD of ~1-2 secs

[limber lion]

No.

[stoic needle]

no

[limber lion]

If you delay SnD, you also delay bleeds

And energy regen

[stoic needle]

you'd want to garotte and rupture

[limber lion]

It's 100% not worth whatsoever

[stoic needle]

envenom is not that much damage

[limber lion]

Envenom doesn't even do anything

[stoic needle]

that's outlaw brain :p

[limber lion]

It's just flat damage

It does less damage than a Rupture would

And less damage than SnD

[silent stratus]

yep too much outlaw I guess

[lofty shell]

lmao xD

[silent stratus]

ty btw

[wary ice]

then you have no energy for an hour while you try and get garrote rup up from 0cp/0energy

[silent stratus]

whats the TTD required to use garrote/rupture?

[wary ice]

you just bite the bullet on the opening w/ MA

its going to suck and the damage will be in vanishes

[lofty shell]

even with mut > snd opener it feels kinda weird cuz i was so used to garrote on pull 😛

[silent stratus]

^ on cleave*

[lofty shell]

ttd?

oh time to death?

[silent stratus]

yes

[wary ice]

# Keep up Rupture at 4+ on all targets (when living long enough and not snapshot)
actions.dot+=/rupture,if=!variable.skip_rupture&(effective_combo_points>=4&refreshable|!ticking&(time>10|combo_points>=2))&(pmultiplier<=1|remains<=tick_time&spell_targets.fan_of_knives>=3)&(!exsanguinated|remains<=tick_time*2&spell_targets.fan_of_knives>=3)&target.time_to_die-remains>4
actions.dot+=/rupture,cycle_targets=1,if=!variable.skip_cycle_rupture&!variable.skip_rupture&target!=self.target&effective_combo_points>=4&refreshable&(pmultiplier<=1|remains<=tick_time&spell_targets.fan_of_knives>=3)&(!exsanguinated|remains<=tick_time*2&spell_targets.fan_of_knives>=3)&target.time_to_die-remains>4```

[lofty shell]

hmm your bleeds also give u energy

so i usually apply low cp rup to 2 targets at first

[silent stratus]

4 secs

I guess

[wary ice]

I wouldnt think too hard about it tbh

in AoE keep bleeds ticking and you're fine

[subtle kiln]

ez fix. open with sbs

[silent stratus]

@wary ice what the APL means when the comment says "not snapshot"?

[wary ice]

If you rupture from stealth with Nightstalker, the 50% damage boost is tied to(ie: snap shot onto) your rupture for the full duration until its refreshed

Also garrote needs longer to get value since it doesnt have an energy refund on kill

Its about 12s

[silent stratus]

so it is saying to not refresh when you did rupture from stealth

but let it expire first

(assuming nightstalker)

[wary ice]

Yes

[silent stratus]

thanks

@wary ice is the APL's TTD logic the same for garrote?

[wary ice]

no

By virtue of Garrote being a generator

[tropic echo]

do y'all shadowstep to barghaast to dot him when he's being tanked father away?

[wary ice]

I sprint to him dot, then shadowstep back to boss

[limber lion]

Yup and sprint back

[tropic echo]

i do the reverse lol

[wary ice]

Doesnt really matter

[limber lion]

Either is fine, same results

[tropic echo]

ye

[wary ice]

Just use your movement

[limber lion]

Sometimes I'm feeling frisky and use Door of Shadows

[tropic echo]

i would imagine that's still worth doing if sprint is down

[limber lion]

Yep for sure

[tropic echo]

honestly ive never thought about using dos one way ss the other

[wary ice]

actions.dot+=/pool_resource,for_next=1
actions.dot+=/garrote,if=refreshable&combo_points.deficit>=1&(pmultiplier<=1|remains<=tick_time&spell_targets.fan_of_knives>=3)&(!exsanguinated|remains<=tick_time*2&spell_targets.fan_of_knives>=3)&(target.time_to_die-remains)>4&master_assassin_remains=0
actions.dot+=/pool_resource,for_next=1
actions.dot+=/garrote,cycle_targets=1,if=!variable.skip_cycle_garrote&target!=self.target&refreshable&combo_points.deficit>=1&(pmultiplier<=1|remains<=tick_time&spell_targets.fan_of_knives>=3)&(!exsanguinated|remains<=tick_time*2&spell_targets.fan_of_knives>=3)&(target.time_to_die-remains)>12&master_assassin_remains=0```

[tropic echo]

i do that sometimes as well tbh, as long as garrote isn't like... 75% duration remaining still

[wary ice]

simplifies down to refresh in pandemic if its not Subterfuge boosted and prioritize it if it gets you to 5/6 cp

[tropic echo]

-1 finishers feel bad

[silent stratus]

TTD 12 or 4? I have some troubles understanding what cycle_targets=1 means

[wary ice]

cycle_targets means go to the next target

[tropic echo]

if the actual APL does force garrote at cp-1 then that makes the rotation a lot smoother ngl

[wary ice]

TTD-remains means that the time to death minus the remaining duration of the dot is > X

[tropic echo]

can basically ignore garrote uptime

mostly

[silent stratus]

so dont garrote if TTD<4

?

[wary ice]

garrote if ttd>12

Again

dont think too much about it

Keep your bleeds up

dont burn resources

[tropic echo]

shouldn't that be >12

[silent stratus]

yep Im confused of "Garrote if ttd <12"

[wary ice]

And you're doing 90% of what the apl is asking you to do

yeah sorry wrong aligator

[silent stratus]

oh ok

[wary ice]

if we're being pendantic which i guess i am today cause im linking apl

Its actually if the TTD is 20s and you have 10s left on garrote; you wouldnt refresh garrote again on that mob ever

since TTD-remains=10

which is !>12

unless it gets healed or the ttd otherwise increases

but again thats over thinking it

Really wanna drive home "it doesnt matter"

just focus on bleed uptime and not capping resources

and you'll be 90+ parsing across everything

[tropic echo]

just to make sure im not overthinking it or something, apl always does garrote at 4/5 or 5/6 unless ttd<12 or garrote is sub'd?

[royal lantern]

you only re-apply garrote when you need too do it

[wary ice]

no only if its refreshable (ie: in pandemic)

[royal lantern]

not too gain 1cp

[tropic echo]

oh

[royal lantern]

1cp before max->finisher

[tropic echo]

well that's nothing new then lol

[wary ice]

more specifically that section of the apl keeps it from Applying garrote at max CP rather than prioritizing it at max-1

[tropic echo]

think 1cp is worth more than 1 gcd of garrote uptime

[wary ice]

I'm not sure what you're asking there

[tropic echo]

nothing lol

[wary ice]

Lol

[subtle kiln]

it’s pretty difficult to actively fuck up playing assa if you’re remotely trying to play it correctly.

[wary ice]

^

our top damage is often melee attacks after all lol

[royal lantern]

tbf

thats for all rogue specs at this point lel

turns out

[limber lion]

thats for all melee*

[royal lantern]

when you bring shit&ability back

and turn melee dmg up

[wary ice]

SND kinda nasty yeah

[royal lantern]

melee will do a big part of your dmg

[limber lion]

All melee specs have melee as their top 3 damage currently

[subtle kiln]

you could probably sim 7 different openers as venthyr and they’d all be margin of error close

[royal lantern]

or be unholy dk

[limber lion]

That's the nature of the beginning of an expansion

[royal lantern]

where melee is #1 #2 and #3

[wary ice]

[subtle kiln]

[wary ice]

If only rogue had pets :^(

[subtle kiln]

we do

[iron orchid]

dem slimes

[subtle kiln]

do you not summon your remornia?

[wary ice]

IDT i have remonia :^(

[subtle kiln]

ok. summon a monkey then

[stoic needle]

Ooze gang gang

[spice spire]

Ooze gang

[limber lion]

Wait, you can summon Whyspir in-game?

[spice spire]

Toxic lmao

We all return to monke eventually

[subtle kiln]

yes. just /bis

[wise fiber]

So. whats the preffered Leggo on Keys above 17 ?

[strange python]

!bis

[spice spire]

O no

[dull cloak]

outlaw should get a band of thieves type ability thata a pet summon

[balmy condor]

Zold

[royal lantern]

assassination should get a mentor type ability that summons a pet whispyr

[balmy condor]

Mutilate

[prisma perch]

I know its only HC but i want to know what I can do better https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/73LzGqZH6gV8RJ4c

[balmy condor]

Skulk will be better because of the pillars, yes. You only get 1 on use though in the pillar windows, so you’re looking at either iqd, skulk, dreadfire, and then the phial on top since that’s our strongest single target trinket

[prisma perch]

I felt confident actually with my rotation but I feel like the parse is way worse

[wary ice]

nothing egregious is jumping out at me

On Shriekwing you missed a blindside proc, on sludgefist you're overcapping cp on 2 casts* than on your otherfights

[frozen jasper]

Saw some higher rio rogues also use skulkers for m+, any reason for that ?

[prisma perch]

I have issues with sludgefist timings thats true I tend to hesitate bcs of the pillar cd uses...

[balmy condor]

It’s a good trinket

[wary ice]

it does a lot of damage

[wary ice]

I didnt look at CD usage really

Wifi is kinda shit so things take forever to load

[prisma perch]

np:)

is around 60cpm good?

[limber lion]

What is this question?

[sour wraith]

higher apm does not mean higher dps

[stoic needle]

when u just absolutely obliterate hakkar

[prisma perch]

my bad cpm

[stoic needle]

cpm doesn't really matter for sin rogue because we pool

[limber lion]

I did a DoS 19 as well just now

https://gyazo.com/1e7fc2a21fea99ae64b618e46d18c9ba

Wish we had your lock

What a blaster

[prisma perch]

how do you freaking blast through keys on spiteful

[stoic needle]

just play like normal

sbs the spiteful for free cp

[prisma perch]

I tried to open

I can never garrote

[stoic needle]

that venthyr damage

even if you don't get subterfuge, your rotation stays the same

[limber lion]

Yeh, Venthyr-gang

[stoic needle]

you just have to work harder at making sure you garrote on cd and get plenty of ruptures up

[limber lion]

I really wish I could swap between Necro and Venth

Necro is so much better for m+

And probably a lot more fun

[stoic needle]

i wouldnt be suprised if that's what we get in a couple tiers

[limber lion]

Not that I would know

[stoic needle]

freely swapping

its a blast man

[limber lion]

Yeh, fingers crossed.

[stoic needle]

my overall for that 17 was only 6k though

the forced combat time really fucks you over

[limber lion]

Mine was 6.2k, not that much better either

Our tank's best DoS previously was a 16

[stoic needle]

lol

[limber lion]

So his route was scuffed and we died 20 times in total xd

[stoic needle]

lmao yeah we had a couple scuffed pulls

people who pull the dental drill with the dog in mechagon are

and he pulled the big dragon in ardenweald

i'd never seen that route before

[grave dock]

pulled the big dragon on purpose?

[stoic needle]

yeah

pulled the whole right side of the pond area, all of the stealthed imps and the dragon

and then made me shroud the whole path towards the dealer boss

that fear the dragon does is nasty

not quite sure how to avoid the pull completely

[gusty mirage]

[stoic needle]

It was a sketchy ass pull

[grave dock]

that's goofy

[stoic needle]

I didn't die but one of the warlocks did

had to brez him

[grave dock]

is the idea to urn the dragon?

does that even work?

[gusty mirage]

Dude I swear NA tanks are broken in the brain

[stoic needle]

oh no these were split up into 2 pulls technically

the first half with the pond birds and the first stealthed imps

and using the urn

then the 2nd pull was the other stealthed imps and the dragon

[grave dock]

I think on really high keys groups do ardenweald first and do it in like 3 pulls total

but I don't think anyone pulls the dragon

[heavy skiff]

Oxi is red now?

[gusty mirage]

Besides the lubricators in mechagon that dragon is legit stupidly inefficient

Like legit the most useless mobs ever for the count they give

[gusty mirage]

[stoic needle]

i'm not sure why you'd want to skip the whole last path in ardenweald

[gusty mirage]

It’s just for the patreon chuffa

[grave dock]

I don't either

it also makes pride more annoying

you lose pride time on dealer if you're skipping all that stuff

[gusty mirage]

Did you not have a decurse maybe? Idk

[heavy skiff]

Ah i knwe it was different from sin red

[stoic needle]

can shamans decurse?

[grave dock]

yes

[gusty mirage]

Yes

[stoic needle]

yeah idk then

[gusty mirage]

[heavy skiff]

Thought i was going crazy

[grave dock]

you don't really need decurse anyway

especially as melee

just jump

[gusty mirage]

True, maybe he wanted to be nice to the lock

[grave dock]

sure, the shaman should decurse the casters

but this isn't like ToP where if you don't decurse you'll probably die

[gusty mirage]

I’m pulling some real mental gymnastics and I still can’t see pulling the dragon outside of like a dos 5 and your tank is lazy for count lol

Haven’t pulled that dragon since heroic week

[grave dock]

it could be the most inefficient thing this xpac

the tentacles in plaguefall are pretty bad

[grand ridge]

I feel like dos timing was built around people doing huge pulls in that room

[stoic needle]

honestly i prefer plaguefall tentacles to the island in the middle

[gusty mirage]

Yeah if you pull big in ardenweald it’s an easy timer

[stoic needle]

that part is a fucking cluterfuck

[gusty mirage]

Only if your DH/shaman/priest don’t purge the ooze

[stoic needle]

nah man its the big flesh giant

[gusty mirage]

If they do, just focus big giant and it’s actually super easy

[stoic needle]

i purge the ooze and still die in the giant's shit cuz no one focuses it

[gusty mirage]

#puglife

[grave dock]

island in the middle is really efficient though

[subtle kiln]

prefer getting slapped by them.

[stoic needle]

[vagrant bison]

do you find sbs fun to use? i am considering going necrolord

[polar apex]

I use sbs, it is by far my favourite cov ability

[shy dust]

its a much more interactive button than the others

but i wouldnt call it "fun"

[ornate lake]

Agree, most fun

[polar apex]

360 no scope from across the map in torghast is also fun

[stoic needle]

i would call it fun

[vagrant bison]

@stoic needle are you using it now?

flagellation has kinda of a meh feeling

[stoic needle]

yeah sbs is a lot more fun than flag coming from venthyr

[subtle kiln]

yes. most enjoyable of the 4 for me

[stoic needle]

I like it because every shiv window feels bigger instead of one big burst every 1.5min

And marrowed gemstones is up for more or less every vendetta/vanish

[spice spire]

Traitor

[lean notch]

Oh I forgot to mention my other trinket. I'm using Memory of Past Sins as my second trinket. Sins on pull, Skulers for first pillar, Sins on second, Skulkers 3rd and Sins 4th again, Skulkers 5th. I figured that'd still be better due to trinkets not really benefiting from CDs or anything, and all trinkets are more than 1 minute in, so you cant pop 1 trink on all 4 pillars.

[balmy condor]

yeh if you trade it off, it can be okay

but phial is just really really strong

[lean notch]

That's still 3 uses of Skulkers so there's 0 waste uses so I figured I'd prolly be nice.

Yeah for sure Phial is nuts, do you think it still beats the combo I've mentioned on Sludge as well?

There's no other boss I'd consider it, but Sludge likes being a special snowflake

[balmy condor]

most likely yeh

the dream would be like skulk iqd probably

[lean notch]

Yeah no luck with IQD here, but maybe yeah. Thanks for the chat! Between pull typing had me sweating

[broken patio]

hi does anyone know yet if the PTR hemotoxin stacks with wound poison in pvp?

[honest rain]

seems like it does

64%

[broken patio]

cool thank you 😄

[fathom lynx]

Necro is hella fun, man. It's slam dunk dotting for the dot class; what's not to love?!

[rigid spindle]

Guys

I need help

my dps is shit (I think)

and I need to improve it

I'll give base stats

my weapons are ilvl 190 and ilvl 187 respectively

[balmy condor]

do you have logs

[stoic needle]

Post logs

[rigid spindle]

I'm guessing I don't considering I don't know what those are 😄

[balmy condor]

oof

not much help we can give them

[rigid spindle]

is there a way I can access them?

do I have to create an account?

[balmy condor]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/

look yourself up on there

maybe someone else logged

[stoic needle]

You need to turn on advanced combat logging in your network settings, and type /combatlog before you do a raid

[balmy condor]

https://www.wowhead.com/how-to-use-warcraft-logs-to-improve-character-performance

this is a good guide to get started with it

[rigid spindle]

ooh ok!

[gusty mirage]

@balmy condor just a random question that popped into my head: is the only reason we open w/ SBS is to get the dot rolling and because the snd cp is kinda insignificant because of cttc?

[balmy condor]

yes

[gusty mirage]

Gotcha, thank you kind sir. May you get all the fat loot in path

[balmy condor]

thanks

[rigid spindle]

ok

I figured out how the logs work

I'll send an update later and then can you guys help me out?

[balmy condor]

yep

[limber lion]

We will try our best

[rigid spindle]

thx so much!

[balmy condor]

I also have a section in the FAQ that's pinned about common mistakes

[limber lion]

Whispyr will try his best

[balmy condor]

maybe you can self-identify the issue from there

[royal lantern]

W R O N G C H A T

[limber lion]

Ok, boomer.

[limber lion]

Ye for sure, gotta join the hypetrain in few weeks.

[tribal mauve]

whats ur build

[timber leaf]

is it just me wowhead is really strange for atm?

i cant see anything. Seems they have made everything premium?

[balmy condor]

wowheads fine for me

[stoic needle]

Could you imagine if we actually didn't get any sin buffs until 9.1 like you predicted after the first aura buff whyspr

[subtle kiln]

that’s something on your end

[balmy condor]

I mean, yeh

I can imagine that

[subtle kiln]

play sub long enough and nothing is unimaginable

[timber leaf]

any idea on what? (ive tried disableing adblock ect. Nothing changed )

[stoic needle]

Try opening it in an incognito windowb

This would still be comfy sin chat

Sin swamp

[subtle kiln]

clear cache, try incognito window, check their discord. shurgassa channel probably not most useful place for wowhead tech support

[stoic needle]

We'd all be playing outlaw

[balmy condor]

sub*

[subtle kiln]

*not rogue

[stoic needle]

But sub's bad

[subtle kiln]

it’s not, it just not amazing

it’s bad to play, but output is fine if you learn the spec.

[stoic needle]

Mmm yeah I guess so

[balmy condor]

maybe you're bad

[stoic needle]

I feel like it's the other way around actually

It's fun to play but the output is bad

[subtle kiln]

you’re playing it wrong then. lol

our sub rogue is competitive with everything we do, push as well

[dark crag]

That's probably what's gonna happen. The pvp talent is all there is

[subtle kiln]

luhmi keeping the positive outlook.

[stoic needle]

Push is a god gamer in a good guild

[subtle kiln]

then learn how to get better with it. idk

[dark crag]

Just saying. What even could be a buff except more aura buffs.

[stoic needle]

Delete black powder

[subtle kiln]

the bottom of sub is the bottom. there’s clearly room to make the spec work if the desire is there

[dark crag]

I mean for assa

[stoic needle]

There's like, a million things they could do to buff/rework sub

Oh

I don't think we need any buffs

[subtle kiln]

yeah 7 reworks in 2 expansions. maybe just edit the spec instead of throwing shit at it

[stoic needle]

I want ct to be baseline but I doubt that will ever happen

I hope our covenant legendaries are fun

Has it really been 7 reworks

[subtle kiln]

depends on how you define reworks

8.0 was 7.0 all over again

[stoic needle]

Sub seems like the spec they give to every new intern to practice spec design with or something

[dark crag]

Wod to legion, mid legion, legion to bfa, zul, now sl

[stoic needle]

Did sub get anything in exchange for removing shuriken combo? Does that count as a rework?

Thought it was just a nerf

[subtle kiln]

it’s a gutting so yea. lol

and no

compensation

[dark crag]

It got more storm dmg

[subtle kiln]

oh yeah that was so noticeable i forgot about it.

[dark crag]

And sl removed the 50% stealth mod

[stoic needle]

Did storm do 50% more damage from stealth in bfa?

[dark crag]

I think so but i am not sure anymore

Wasn't it an artifact trait and then got added with bfa baseline?

[dense herald]

Guys, switched to assa today

What's the real difference between Mutilate and Ambush while in Subterfuge buff?

pvp talking

[misty holly]

PvP might change things, but in pve mutilate is just better.

[balmy condor]

!mut

[prisma monolith]

Ambush is currently only used from blindside/sepsis proc, not from stealth.
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3).
Some other factors to consider are increased poison applications, blindside, and doomblade. This is true for all talent combinations and legendaries.

[balmy condor]

just apply that

to pvp

but also #pvp

[dense herald]

I'm asking because I saw few streamers doing it in arena

And i was trying to realise why

In my head it goes like

"Same amount of dmg, but you can get up to 4 CP rather than a random crit from ambush here)

Since it is played with the doomblade legendary it doesn't make sense in my head at all

Gonna go to the pvp section, thank you!

[potent rune]

@balmy condor seen the podcast you were in on Marcelian's channel. Great stuff man!

[balmy condor]

Thank you

[potent rune]

Is there any info regarding teir sets in the 9.1 beta yet?

[cunning lantern]

any blindside macro ?

[misty holly]

Ion said a while ago no tier sets in 9.1

*class tier

[potent rune]

dang ty

[misty holly]

covenant tier sets or something like that is still a possibility I guess.

[potent rune]

i was hoping we could equip 1 normal leggo and 1 covenant leggo for 9.1

[balmy condor]

!bs

[prisma monolith]

Macroing Ambush to Mutilate only works with the use of a addon.
It comes with the downside that it often requires multiple key presss.
Suggested addon to use(Gnome Sequencer):http://tiny.cc/mxb6tz
Showcase Video: #assassination message

[balmy condor]

Ambush does twice the damage of a mut roughly

Just for the record

[cunning lantern]

thanks

thought it was like the NF proc or something else

sad

[balmy condor]

Sin doesn’t have that many buttons to begin with

[toxic thunder]

after checking the pins, is that leggo thing up to date ? doomblade is really 2nd in dungeon too ?

so i shouldnt craft the zol whatever ?

[stoic needle]

no it's not actually 2nd for dungeons

it's 2nd in dungeon slice

because it's 50% single target

[toxic thunder]

ahhh

im gearing my rogue up to prepare for 9.1

im assuming the zol whatever is the best for all around to catch up

[stoic needle]

yeah

you can craft a 190 zoldyck and 190 doomblade/dashing and be set

legendary ilvl isn't important

[toxic thunder]

thank you !

[wise fiber]

Zoldyck for higher keys then? Over ma?

[covert creek]

!bis

[stoic needle]

yes

[stoic needle]

[stoic needle]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/droptimizer

bruh

[fallen current]

So close yet..... so so far

[stoic needle]

idk why i stopped playing sin in m+ tbh

so much fun

when you get crit iqd proc on big pulls

[gusty mirage]

So what you’re saying is you’ll be my rogue when I switch vdh?

We’ll get 2k together

[torn atlas]

I keep telling my group I'll learn to play Outlaw for keys, then a few days later just start playing Sin again.

[gusty mirage]

It’s a trap, don’t do it

[frigid kestrel]

My Tank keeps asking me to swap

[gusty mirage]

Tell your tank to fly a kite

[frigid kestrel]

And i keep telling him thats a strong no dawg

#Sin4Lyfe

[stoic needle]

Story of my life

[stoic needle]

Can't believe I crafted deathly shadows

https://tenor.com/view/cube-digital-shame-cube-cover-enclose-gif-5004249

[torn atlas]

At least it wasn't Akaaris.

[feral dune]

the hell happened to assass? i can't stay stealthed when using vendetta now?

[subtle kiln]

that was a bfa change. abused in pvp during legion.

[feral dune]

since i came back to shadowlands, i've never dropped stealth upon using vendetta, until today. haven't played since tuesday, so im confused.

[subtle kiln]

they legit removed it because you could keep someone from capping a flag for nearly 40 seconds.

[balmy condor]

Vend pulls you out of stealth since bfa

[subtle kiln]

dunno what to tell you

except that it changed in bfa

[balmy condor]

Not sure why that would matter either considering we never vend in stealth to begin with

[feral dune]

i didn't play rogue before this xpac, either

[balmy condor]

So I’m guessing you just don’t notice it

[feral dune]

macro. vendetta and marked for death

[stoic needle]

Vend in stealth into MfD NS envenom pog

[balmy condor]

Vend in stealth to pull you out

Pog

[stoic needle]

But imagine

[feral dune]

NS?

[stoic needle]

Nightstalker

[feral dune]

ah, i run subterfuge

was confused for a minute

[stoic needle]

As you should for aoe

NS isn't super great

[feral dune]

yeah, i run it all the time as i only pvp

[subtle kiln]

in legion you did defending bases in rbgs. blind. sap. vendetta. sap. was useless trying to take a base solo from a rogue.

[balmy condor]

Yeh

I can only imagine

[fallen current]

Ew

[compact pumice]

What did vendetta do in that rotation though? Did it somehow stop them from capping or what?

[fallen current]

That sounds awful.

[balmy condor]

Yeh it did damage in legion

Similar to nothing personal in bfa

Nothing personal being the azerite trait from the artifact

[eager solstice]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[balmy condor]

That got rolled over

[compact pumice]

Ah

[fallen current]

Oh right. The dot.

[compact pumice]

Seems logical that an ability doing damage would pop you out of stealth yeah

[balmy condor]

Yeh

It doesn’t do that damage anymore but still gives energy

So I guess it stayed

[subtle kiln]

what was hilarious was how many rogues didn’t know about that tictac in legion.

[oak cypress]

so during M+ AoE do we just straight open from stealth with garrote? get as much garrote out then get CT out? then just what fan of knives into rupture spreading?

[compact pumice]

Pretty much yeah, keep up Slice and Dice though and envenom is good to pop on a prio target if you have 5-6 bleeds up.

I mean that's with subterfuge

You would do slightly less garroting otherwise with NS but otherwise pretty much the same. dot dot dot 🙂

[balmy condor]

Garrote and rupture basically everything you can that lives the duration

Maintain CT, refresh it in pandemic

Throw a couple envenoms out when the pack starts dying

[wary shale]

Heyo boys, so the pinned message says with enough haste its justified to play deeper strat. How much haste would that be?

[compact pumice]

Around when the sims tell you it sims higher!

[wary shale]

xd alright i will sim

[compact pumice]

Also depends on covenant

[wary shale]

necro

[compact pumice]

a bit more haste than venthyr then, but still 100% sim it

[wary shale]

alright will do, thanks

btw are there any preffered sim options or just normal Patchwerk 5 min?

[balmy condor]

For single target that’s it!

[peak jungle]

What's the pandemic window of CT? 2-3 seconds?

[balmy condor]

30% of the new dot being applied like all other pandemics

[fading wigeon]

I forgot to swap from deeper before going into a key for the first time. Lol was so awful

[balmy condor]

Deeper in keys is pretty painful

[fading wigeon]

Yep it was. Lol never making that mistake again

[compact pumice]

I tried the Seliathan version of NS with NS DS MA for the 6cp CT. I kept not having max CP up until next pack due to bad planning and stuff. A pretty unforgiving spec tbh

Might take a lot of practice to get into the habit of saving CP like that

[stiff vine]

please rip me a new one for my sludgefist logs ❤️

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/JQ4Dm218pwKxfVWR/#fight=10&type=damage-done

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/JQ4Dm218pwKxfVWR/#fight=13&type=damage-done

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/JQ4Dm218pwKxfVWR/#fight=24&type=damage-done

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/JQ4Dm218pwKxfVWR/#fight=25&type=damage-done

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/JQ4Dm218pwKxfVWR/#fight=26&type=damage-done

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/JQ4Dm218pwKxfVWR/#fight=27&type=damage-done

[topaz axle]

is it worth dumping a rupture on one or both of the secondary bosses on mythic counci?

[compact pumice]

Yes, both a garrote and a rupture is worth it.

On one add

[dense axle]

You get energy from the ticks, so yeah

As long as they're poisoned

[heavy trail]

run 33 🙂

[bleak sky]

might be a dumb question but

we rupture at full combo points only, right...?

[compact pumice]

full cp -1, so 5-6 with DS and 4-5 with vigor/mfd.

[bleak sky]

hmmm, ty

[stoic needle]

In aoe you can do 2-3cp

[balmy condor]

Pog pinned question

[stoic needle]

Whydontyoureadthepinspyr

please, sin jesus, give me a mastery ring in the vault tomorrow

@warped temple what's your opinion on emeni vs heirmir for m+?

i'm having a hard time quantifying which one is better overall

[warped temple]

the only thing i dont like about emeni is that sometimes you spam bone spike. (especially in the opener for AOE). you dont gain full value of lead by example because of it

and i actually like gemstones + passive agi. but at the end of the day, I dont think there's anything TOO different about emeni or bonesmith though

[stoic needle]

yeah i feel that, I wasn't sure if spacing out the spikes was still the play with emeni or not. i was convinced emeni might be better overall because of giving your teammates damage but lbe uptime on other people in keys seems to be pretty low

I do like gemstones a lot too because of how good crit is for us.. it stacks up nicely with iqd when they happen to line up

[loud niche]

Hey any news about PTR stuff yet? We have any new changes?

[slender trail]

ryfie/oshosi, either of you have raid logs as venthyr vs necro?

[balmy condor]

Not rogue specific

[loud niche]

ty ❤️

[stoic needle]

all i have is a bunch of sludgefist wipes

i doubt they'd be very useful

[charred mango]

anyone else have multiple rogues for the covenants?

[balmy condor]

[slender trail]

@stoic needle if you don’t mind sharing, PM them to me.

[lyric crater]

no only one i havnt use in nerolord thing swithing to them for pvp /story why cause im a not bar that like grinding pains

[wary ice]

Yeah me neither

[stoic needle]

wat

[charred mango]

lol

[stoic needle]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/qXBTLY8JhgrMpDkV here's the venthyr ones

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/W8y2AfaRwPvFXJr6#fight=29 here's the necrolord ones

i didn't get the chance to unlock gemstones before our kill

but i parsed an 8 anyway

one thing i've noticed while comparing the logs is that flag absolutely blasts on the pillars

holy shit

like look at this 4th pillar damage

[heavy trail]

34 runs 7 IQD's going to other fuckers. Some guy just got it on his 2nd run 🙂

[silent stratus]

whats the rule for how many CPs to use when rupturing in cleave?

[oak cypress]

our SnD pretty much never really runs out during boss fights does it?

[stoic needle]

If it's cleave in raids, 4-5. If it's m+, 2-3 is ok

[bleak sky]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[subtle kiln]

!bis

[uncut heron]

how long does it take to grind after swapping cov. thinking about going from kyrian >> venthyr

[subtle kiln]

you can get to 34 in 2 days if you do it right

[uncut heron]

what is the right way to do it

can you link me a guide / what you did plsss 🙂

[stoic needle]

run heroic dungeons until they stop giving renown, run all m0s, do LFR, normal, heroic raid

save your callings and weekly quests till 30+ for when it starts to slow down

[uncut heron]

pray for me raid day is wednesday

lol

[subtle kiln]

that was my necro swap.

and i didn’t max it.

[uncut heron]

oh sweet this is good info

thanks

[cerulean nest]

why do i see some top parsers using phantom fire instead of agi pots

[subtle kiln]

because phantom is good

[bleak sky]

agi is consistent; phantom is better if you get lucky with the procs i think

[cerulean nest]

like...WAY better

or minimally

?

[bleak sky]

idk tbh

[subtle kiln]

you can sim the differnce. then compare the sim amount of phantom to top logs you're looking at

[heavy trail]

I need to pay 4 guys who don't need IQD to run something with me lol

[stoic needle]

that's called a M+ boost

[balmy condor]

!oil

[prisma monolith]

Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ

[balmy condor]

But like

Phantom/agi are basically 5-10 dps apart

Non-existent

[cerulean nest]

for sure

since im belf instead of orc, ive been using arcane torrent in my opener before cds for an easier time with deeper stratagem

is wasting that one global a big enough deal where I shouldnt do that?

[balmy condor]

Most likely yeah

Like it’s fine to use there

But I would rather use it during vend

Not like it matters at all

It gives like what

20 energy?

[cerulean nest]

15 lol

thats true i should probably stop

[balmy condor]

Oh god

That’s actually awful lmao

[cerulean nest]

i guess i thought it was more than that lmao

live and learn

tomorrow's the first night i actually get to try sin with final soulbind row and proper covenant

see how I do

[heavy trail]

@stoic needle I don't need their skill just the loot of it drops ontheir toon instead of mine

[balmy condor]

So a boost

[stoic needle]

its actually more when you account for your natural regen

it's good

[stoic needle]

that's a boost

[heavy trail]

How is it a boost? I ran the thing fucking 34 times and outdpsed most tards within 10 ilevels of me lol

[stoic needle]

a boost doesn't necessarily mean that you're afk, undergeared or bad

[heavy trail]

It's a favor if anythingg lol

[stoic needle]

good players buy boosts all the time for this exact reason, because they can't get an item they've been grinding for

[heavy trail]

You fucking tunneling on Symantecs for something fucking reason lol

[cerulean nest]

what do you mean?

[subtle kiln]

it's literally a loot boost. it's not that difficult to understand

or have 4 friends

[heavy trail]

whatever lol

[stoic needle]

it's more than 15 energy that you gain for spending that global on arcane torrent

yeah man that's a boost

i do them all day long

you're paying people to give you the loot that drops

= boost

[heavy trail]

If it makes you happy to call it a boost you go ahead sir

I wouldn't really do that was more of a frustrated joke lol

[stoic needle]

i mean there's nothing wrong with it lol

rng is garbage

[heavy trail]

never paid for anything though

[balmy condor]

[stoic needle]

if paying 250k or whatever means you don't have to keep running dos til your eyes bleed i'd say that's worth it

[balmy condor]

15 is more than 15?

[stoic needle]

15+ your natural regen + venomous wounds

when you'd be spending that global on an ability instead

[balmy condor]

But why would you factor that in

[stoic needle]

thus spending energy

why wouldn't you?

[balmy condor]

Because that energy is coming in regardless of what you do

[stoic needle]

when you're wondering whether it's worth it or not to spend a global on AT in your opener

[bleak sky]

i'm on a heroic pug and the RL just told us to lust on pull @ sludgefist

this is gonna be great I can see it

[balmy condor]

Bruh

[stoic needle]

[subtle kiln]

it's heroic who cares

[balmy condor]

Why does this continue to be a thing

[subtle kiln]

you out gear it by 20 ilvls at least

[bleak sky]

sorry to bother ya with my peasant stuff

I'm still gearing my rogue lol

[balmy condor]

Raid leaders trolling the lust on sludge

[stoic needle]

parse denied

[subtle kiln]

@balmy condor we're going to lust 3rd pillar on sludge tomorrow

[balmy condor]

Are you doing 3 pillars?

[subtle kiln]

5 pillars

[balmy condor]

Trolling

[subtle kiln]

we lust 10 seconds before p4, like normal people lol

[cerulean nest]

so wait lol. where did we end up on this? worth it or not?

i'm new to the spec so genuinely curious

[stoic needle]

i say it's worth it, if you don't have energy to do anything that global anyway you might as well use it

[cerulean nest]

for sure. seems like whispyr disagrees but i guess i'll try it both ways during pulls tomorrow and see how it feels

[stoic needle]

i think whispyr just disagrees with my logic

maybe i explained it poorly, but it's just a more efficient gcd spent pooling energy

[cerulean nest]

no I know what you mean. the reason i started doing it in the first place was because during opener i found myself having to wait an extra moment before I could garrote

so just filled the gap with AT

[balmy condor]

If you have to pool anyway, might as well

I never really hit AT in raids to begin with

But I hitting it before your cd’s seems kinda troll imo

Shouldn’t really matter where you hit it though

15 energy is 15 energy later

It’s what, 2 min cd?

[cerulean nest]

yeah

[balmy condor]

Oh no, my 45 energy, that’s almost a mutilate

Miss me with that shit

[cerulean nest]

lol

[subtle kiln]

pointy ear problems

[balmy condor]

Average mutilate is what

2k?

So we’re talking like

Maybe 5 dps? Versus not hitting it

Huge gains

[cerulean nest]

lol i was mostly just concerned with it fucking up my opener vs being irrelevent

[balmy condor]

That’s within margin of error for default simulations

[cerulean nest]

obviously not any type of longterm gains

[balmy condor]

Yeah

Mostly just me doing quick math at this point to see if I’m actually bad for not using it

Turns out

Doesn’t matter at all

[obtuse ruin]

Alright after multiple runs it seems my havoc almost always does about 0.5 to 1k more dps than assa in every dungeon 😭

[balmy condor]

Sounds reasonable

[stoic needle]

rogue will never touch DH overall in dungeons

but you do 2x the st dps they do so

[outer lodge]

Prideful Deleter

[stoic needle]

A dh will never do 9k dps to hakkar in dos

A rogue will

I do 5k dps to prides without popping CDs lmao

[bleak sky]

dhs go brrrr on packs

and go sadddd on bosses

my damage went up a lot after the tips you guys gave me yesterday, thanks ❤️

this discord seems to be a lot better than the dh one

[ornate gazelle]

I'm simming patchwerk 5 min to just see how far behind necro is to venthyr but it's showing it as better and not simming gems, etc. stuff I have selected

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9SUu6t5G4gCWXN6v6f73J

Any clue what I'm doing wrong here haha

[limber lion]

Your simming Venthyr with the wrong conduit

Your using SF on that as well

[ornate gazelle]

Oh I was simming all my conduits

But you're right

I gotta sim the venthyr one everyone takes

Thanks

(:

[limber lion]

No, your literally only simming SF here

[balmy condor]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/m5XP3Y56gvfGnHWdjGKFF8

[limber lion]

:p

[balmy condor]

Fixed

[ornate gazelle]

Thanks!

Wait is it only 30 dps difference?

[balmy condor]

Yep

[ornate gazelle]

Not bad

[stoic needle]

[wild birch]

Did anyone sim the current 9.1 new soulbinds?

[balmy condor]

They’re not implemented

Way too early to tell whats good

[bleak sky]

theotar's gift looks kinda bad

or maybe i'm just dumb

[stoic needle]

Nah it looks like shit

It only lasts an hour and can only be gotten once a day? Whack

[strange python]

Imagine if we had 3 good potencies...

[ornate gazelle]

hey we have 3 good potency conduits if we combine all specs! (:

[low girder]

that gives us 2

[stoic needle]

Maim/mangle gaming

Let's go

[balmy condor]

Cto and............ wait a minute

[limber lion]

Lashing Scars, Sudden Fractures and Count the Odds. You're right!

[balmy condor]

Sudden fractures isn’t even that good

[low girder]

hey lashing is good

[balmy condor]

Being barely better than WPS isn’t an accomplishment

Lashing is good yeh

Forgot about that one

[limber lion]

Ye true

But nothing still compares to CtO to be fair

Not even LS

[ornate gazelle]

i was gonna say count the odds, lashing scars, and maybe the crit sub one?

[stoic needle]

Hey sudden fractures is like 1.7% of my damage in a key

[limber lion]

Nah, it's like a slightly better WPS for Assa. Still not great.

Actually, PE might be worse than WPS

[low girder]

it's even worse than WPS iirc

[limber lion]

[stoic needle]

Yikes

[low girder]

200 PE was 2.2%

iirc

[balmy condor]

Yeah PE is pretty meh

[stoic needle]

But they're empowered

[balmy condor]

Never mind the fact we’re talking about mostly 2-3% conduits when things like frost and fire have 10-12% conduits

[stoic needle]

Think of the ||scaling||

[low girder]

fire's is like 8% come patch day

nice nerf

[stoic needle]

Oh no

8%

Ded spec

[limber lion]

But to be fair, a lot of Fire Mage's damage comes from Infernal Cascade

If we had conduits of that sort, we would be going through the roof because our base damage, because of the aura buffs, is very high.

[fathom flax]

can someone help me

with the opener

im confused

[stoic needle]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[stoic needle]

Pick a guide any guide

[low girder]

which part are you confused by

[balmy condor]

Guides

[fathom flax]

none of them mention ambush?

[balmy condor]

Written by absolute units like mystler and seli and weak

[fathom flax]

am i dumb?

[low girder]

!mut

[prisma monolith]

Ambush is currently only used from blindside/sepsis proc, not from stealth.
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3).
Some other factors to consider are increased poison applications, blindside, and doomblade. This is true for all talent combinations and legendaries.

[balmy condor]

POG

BOT COMMAND ON TOP OF IT ALL

[fathom flax]

oh theres a bot and all

hahahahahahaha

[stoic needle]

The wonders of technology

[balmy condor]

SUPER NUT