plater
#assassination
stoic needle
clever vapor
It can get hard to see/click the right target with nameplates, hence why I'm looking for something like a weakaura or something
balmy condor
Mistlyr
velvet nacelle
ugh, i've lost faith in my raid team but i'm not enjoying the game enough to find a new one
we vantus'd a sun king rekill today since we had like 4 people on alts
and sun king is the last boss we killed
all of our boss kill times get longer than our initial kills
void pecan
mid-tier burnout is real my friend
random drum
Bruh I'm progressing on heroic Inerva
velvet nacelle
i wouldn't mind the struggle of progression but instead of getting better at bosses we can kill we are getting worse
hazy crater
What are you dying to
velvet nacelle
got our first sun king kill 3 weeks ago and that's as far as we've gotten, we haven't even pulled anything else since it takes us our whole raid time to get the rekills
9 wipes on it today
granted we've had to lose a raid night the past two weeks to the roster boss
so we only have one night, but if we're struggling to rekill a boss and people are on alts, the solution shouldn't be to rune the boss imo
hazy crater
Sounds like a struggle yeah
velvet nacelle
we've always had a few hard carries, like one of our locks is consistently parsing single digits, but now we've got people who used to be solid pulling out similar dps because they're on alts, so our bar is dropping instead of going up
anyways i'm just in here bitching, sorry for the rant
stoic needle
Let it all out brother
clear zinc
what is versatility gonna help with on sun king is the real question
low girder
Shield breaks?
torn atlas
Or raid team pretty much collapsed a week or two after hc Sire clear. Burnout is real and people just get lazy with mechanics.
frail fossil
we vantus'd a sun king rekill today since we had like 4 people on alts
who are these people allowing alts before prog is finished
hazy crater
why no sync with vendetta 
shy dust
stoic needle
Iqd undersimming? 
proven talon
How the fuck do we open on 2 targets with snd being a thing
limber lion
With what talents
oak cypress
does our mastery affect the dmg of the trinket that applies poison to your wepaons?
balmy condor
also the trinket doesn't really apply a poison to our weapons
hell, our poisons aren't really poisons
the description makes it sound like it
but they're actually just all character buffs like a flask, or envenom, or elaborate planning
oak cypress
ah ok, interesting
balmy condor
proven talon
elaborate planning tho?
proven talon
tf lmao
balmy condor
elaborate also falls under the "any other spec mechanics" list
vestal wren
They changed that in bfa, trinkets in Legion did get buffed by spec/class damage amps
fathom swift
it depends on the spec, some do have abilities that buff damage and some dont
vestal wren
Only exception is warrior if I don't miss another one. But that's because of how their damage amp works
fathom swift
stuff like ghostly strike doesnt have a whitelist right
lean rover
They changed that in bfa, trinkets in Legion did get buffed by spec/class damage...
That draught of souls Time 
misty holly
Or raid team pretty much collapsed a week or two after hc Sire clear. Burnout is...
The day after we killed HC Sire one tank quit the game entirely and the other rerolled dps lol. Back to normal mode raid next week.
final star
moonglaive is my favourite aoe trinket they made
limber lion
Moonglaive was a fun trinket, but busted af as well
mossy crown
has anyone tried getting the slime serpent?
balmy condor
many, yes
mossy crown
easy as sin?
balmy condor
not really "easy" as any rogue spec
mossy crown
doable tho?
balmy condor
sub is probably the easiest
not sure if it's doable as sin, but I know people have done it as sub
autumn steppe
Did it as sin earlier and sure Im pretty much full mythic geared but it was kinda easy with 17% leech and marileth buffs and haste as necro xD
balmy condor
well there ya go
mossy crown
gg
vagrant bison
@stoic needle is infectious wrong about using tab instead of a focus macro or its just the the concept of maintaining the mutilate bleed on both that is flawed?
balmy condor
the concept of maintaining on both is flawed
the dot works like ignite, and compounds it's own damage
so spreading the dot actually does nothing
at this point I'm not even surprised
I just wish he did 5 minutes of research before he churns out hot garbage for content
heavy trail
Why when I do dos folks never chime up and tell the group if they failed their nonsense on the last boss lol
Just did it 11 times today and no qcd yet but saw 3 other fuckers get it lol
limber lion
It's okay, you'll get it soon.
#believe
@vagrant bison Whispyr explained it perfectly. Just to add to the earlier portion; focus macros, mouseover macros and tabbing are all a matter of preference. There isn't one way which is better than the other. I pretty much only use tab but there's plenty of people who swear by clicking nameplates and mouseover macros.
limber lion
Yeh, sometimes when there's a lot of mobs around you and you need to click on a specific target.
final star
because there is multiple times where the nameplate slightly moves and it uses SBS on current target
limber lion
But focus macro for mutilate is completely useless.
final star
Also could someone explain the benefit of vigor vs DS in sludgefist
Discussing with rogue friend and he's never found himself to be energy starved during pillars with DS
vagrant bison
i got used to focus macros cause i play tank and sometimes when i pull 10 mobs i can't really figure out who to interrupt. So just /focus keybind works
so far focus garrote and rupture have worked good
waxen nebula
30sec afaik
balmy condor
Also could someone explain the benefit of vigor vs DS in sludgefist
vigor + EP is more burst because it allows for more pooling and envenom damage
limber lion
Discussing with rogue friend and he's never found himself to be energy starved d...
This is also completely false
Link me a log where he does 11 gcd's in a row on every pillar.
I'll wait.
final star
This is the only log he has on there I think since 9.0.5
already discussed the vendetta usage 😛
limber lion
To be fair, I do think that EP/DS could be good with SBS. Not sure about Blindside though because of its rng nature.
final star
Yeah he said he also had the wrong conduit
subtle kiln
DS feels very much starved as necro
final star
Why's that mr scath
final star
no problems with energy in opener
limber lion
Ya'll have an enhancement shaman in your raid
subtle kiln
opener is on pull. 2 mins on p2 p4 and you’re starved with ds on p1/3 if you don’t have cds
final star
they do 
subtle kiln
ep + vigor and sbs should get you 3 full envenoms every pillar
but i’ve never done the afk until first pillar.
final star
Yeah 
I'm yet to do mythic sludgefist
the guild I joined is on SLG
so it'll be a while before I can test it out
subtle kiln
that’s 100% a fight that I think you’re talents will change based on what the strat is. there are multiple ways of doing it now.
subtle kiln
yup
final star
but I do like in patchwerk sims how it uses SBS during heirmir crit buff
3 in opener
then 2 during crit buff
then 2 during next vendetta
repeat
subtle kiln
on that fight, i’ve been using it every pillar to top off cps for envenom on bad mutilate rng
final star
Yeah sludge seems the edge case
dark crag
The soak not being in melee ranges sometimes even when sludge hits the pillar at the melee spot is much more disturbing
subtle kiln
when both are out of range we’re crying. if it’s one our MW gets it.
final star
The chain is longer and soaks take longer to drop so Melee should no longer need to soak, instead we're going to let one pair of ranged soak the Melee stack and have the tanks soak by themselves.
This was posted in my guilds sludgefist channel when they wer eprogging it
that sounds so bis for me
stoic needle
It's 20sec, 25 during lust
warm portal
has anyone done the Plaguefall mount achiev solo ?
fallen arch
Is that even possible with a rogue?
low girder
there's a video or two floating around
waxen nebula
@strange python which talents did you run for domina?
and are you venthyr or necro?
fallen arch
Will that be easier next patch? Or will difficulty scale?
waxen nebula
I believe HC doesn't scale at all on later patches
compact pumice
has anyone done the Plaguefall mount achiev solo ?
It seemed tough and I wiped on third boss once. Just swapped to my brewmaster alt and it was a breeze though.
drifting cosmos
strange python
<@456226577798135808> which talents did you run for domina?
Venthyr, EP MA Vigor
grizzled harness
Hi guys
I have a question, is the Void Elves racial bugging on Altimor?
Is there some weird interaction I don't understand
Because this was on Friday :
limber lion
Yes, the Void Elf racial Entropic Embrace does more damage than it should on the Shades as it double dibs (or triple or even quad dibs depending on what you use the passive with)
It's not properly accounted for by WarcraftLogs.
grizzled harness
Ohhhh now I see it 😮
limber lion
Yeah, imagine getting the proc and you Mutilate the Shade with Doomblade
grizzled harness
Yeah makes sense
faint harness
But if it works like doomblade the entropic thing might be an actual dps increase
And not just a wclogs thing
limber lion
But if it works like doomblade the entropic thing might be an actual dps increas...
Yeah it does function similarly.
But it is still bugged (afaik) as it shouldn't be double dipping.
faint harness
Then void elf should be good on sludge too
limber lion
Or who knows, maybe Blizz intended for double dipping.
ocean verge
It is realy better to play venthyr assa than necro assa ?
limber lion
Yeh, same applies for Sludge.
faint harness
Blizz did not intend it
limber lion
It is realy better to play venthyr assa than necro assa ?
For raiding, yes.
limber lion
Blizz did not intend it
Yeah I highly doubt it as well.
faint harness
Shadow blades had the same interaction on beta
And it was fixed
It was just a lot more visible with sub rogues doing millions of dmg with it
faint harness
Yea
limber lion
Likely will just stay that way for the rest of the tier.
faint harness
It might be a good thing to keep in mind for any future fight where the target takes more dmg
Does it work the same on cabalists then?
After denny debuff
strange python
do we know if Venthyr will still be better with 9.1? The crit buff after the initial haste buff on Nadjia sounds good.
limber lion
After denny debuff
For sure.
Around 2k per hit from Mutilated Flesh, 2.2k from Mutilate.
45% of 2.2k 
faint harness
I wonder how many bugs like this exist in the game
limber lion
Probably a lot.
faint harness
Must be more specs with % dmg based functions
limber lion
Most of them just go unnoticed.
limber lion
do we know if Venthyr will still be better with 9.1? The crit buff after the ini...
No one knows yet. It's hard to say which is better and which is worse at this current point. Anything can change and a lot of things will change.
9.1 is still at least 3 months away.
limber lion
A Blizzard employee themselves has said that "July would be the earliest and that's pushing it, August is probable"
Or something along those lines.
vast forum
no, a blizzard employee said it's behind schedule and "it's looking like it might even be august"
faint harness
Yea he might employ some hyperbole for effect
Will the longest ever 1st patch also have the longest ptr?
Seems like something you want to avoid by all costs
waxen nebula
WoD patches took longer
vast forum
no they didn't
faint harness
No
vast forum
they were just shit
6.1 was much faster
than 9.1
it just had no content
just a raid and selfie camera
faint harness
They launched a patch for selfie goggles tho
vast forum
to be fair to them
corona isn't nice to any1 😄
it's unprecedented times and i don't hold delaying an expansion by a few months against them
but delaying a FIRST PATCH by 3 months is pretty weird
polar cape
Well they prob dont wanna be successful otherwise they get fired you know <.<
coral portal
how come we use a 2nd mutilate after slice and dice on opener before garrote? is it because of master assassin?
faint harness
They might need to hire more devs, who would have thought
limber lion
how come we use a 2nd mutilate after slice and dice on opener before garrote? is...
Yes.
coral portal
thx
ocean verge
For raiding, yes.
Ok but for Mythic and pvp ?necro is great right ?
subtle kiln
necro is strong all over
venthyr will do better on ST in raid. for prog it’s debatable which is better. necro is better overall imo when you take into account multi target and defensives. venthyr better for parsing.
play whatever you think you’ll enjoy more.
limber lion
Ok but for Mythic and pvp ?necro is great right ?
Yep.
Scath pretty much summed it up.
royal lantern
venthyr and necro are both viable options, venthyr slightly more st, necro better for aoe/the shield is good
tbh, for most people its just "take what you want"
subtle kiln
imagine thinking it's a clown answer. @cobalt kindle
subtle kiln
shit, you right
faint harness
Talking about 9.1 covenants before they have been touched on ptr and before we have covenant legendaries
subtle kiln
wait 9.1? i thought they wanted 9.0.5 
faint harness
Might have misinterpreted
royal lantern
im dooing my covenant choice for 9.3
subtle kiln
waits for SL to end with 9.2
royal lantern
2patches ahead of you
subtle kiln
the one that gives you sbs + soulshape
royal lantern
nf, when you get the super-animacharged sepsis, you do 700%AP in a cleave
good for leveling
subtle kiln
we need 3-5 more rounds of druid and mage tears before we can expect to even see rogue stuff on the ptr
they'll shove it all in with release candidate
royal lantern
the mage nerf was overblown, page 1 of my 18page explenantion
part1
remember how people always said "frost/arcane is always good at expac launch, fire gets good later cus of stat S C A L I N G, and then its ok too be broken!!! they need crit!!!!"
and then we have BfA where they dont even use crit
and SL where fire is #1 for everything on the first patch
🙂
strange python
I don’t really watch infectious as much as I watch justruss I just stumbled across his video and would love to have that visual aid on the side that has a timer in bold for dot you have on your enemy
royal lantern
stat scaling truly is a miracle
subtle kiln
sick cairn
hey guys, is it possible to get the slime serpent? as a rogue?
subtle kiln
have not done it personally, but some have said they have
faint harness
Didnt they make crit pointless after giving combust 100% crit
royal lantern
no!!!!! they need CRIT!!!!!11111!!!!!!
faint harness
It used to be a real pain to reach crit cap as fire
fallen arch
hey guys, is it possible to get the slime serpent? as a rogue?
Theres a video on yt of a 227 sub rogue doing it
He said it’s probably even easier as assa since u have higher st dps
But you will need an ilvl in that range
faint harness
Not sure if assa is better, drops quite hard after vendetta
strange python
No one knows yet. It's hard to say which is better and which is worse at this cu...
simulated my character and eternal skirmish is actually better now for me....guess thats because of 26% haste I guess?
faint harness
If you can sustain for 1.5 mins maybe
fresh monolith
did it with 223 necro assa- was pretty easy
strange python
oh sorry, wasnt supposed to be an answer^^
fresh monolith
haste buff, drums, all consumes, heirmir, clos 2nd stun, cardboardassasin-vanish first adds
killed on 2nd try
royal lantern
eternal skirmish sims better for me since always lel
never had eternal stats be higher
strange python
eternal skirmish sims better for me since always lel
really? crazy. I really though stats was better for me at one point
royal lantern
i mean, its the frking chest enchant
lets not act as if it will make a noticable difference lol
faint harness
Yea its not a big dealio
limber lion
simulated my character and eternal skirmish is actually better now for me....gue...
Ye, just use Eternal Skirmish. I've used it for 3 months now on all content, doesn't make much of a difference.
shell ivy
haste buff, drums, all consumes, heirmir, clos 2nd stun, cardboardassasin-vanish...
What if u don’t have engineering
😢
hollow escarp
can spiteful week be over? I hate playing outlaw 
stoic needle
You can play sin
gloomy knoll
why is sin bad with spiteufl
hollow escarp
no restealth
stoic needle
Sin loses less from spiteful than outlaw does
gloomy knoll
does sin even use mantle
hollow escarp
and I'm blood elf now, not night elf
gloomy knoll
is that with NS or with sub
strange python
New to the rogue game planning on going ass rogue at 60 but is leveling as outlaw quicker?
gloomy knoll
New to the rogue game planning on going ass rogue at 60 but is leveling as outla...
outlaw or sub, sub is bis for leveling
sin is da worst
hollow escarp
I did a SD 18 and I did 0.9 mil less dps than the other outlaw rogue, he was playing necro though
all the difference was in blade flurry 
stoic needle
Sbs is
stoic needle
Giga
I can't go back
Sbs as sin is like a second rupture
That hits as hard as envenom and gives cp
You just do tab sbs rup instead of fok rup or mut rup
hollow escarp
I'm not sure what I wanna do though, starting SLG prog and I could just go necro
hollow escarp
you playing sin on SLG?
stoic needle
Also you always get 3 envenoms in shiv with sbs
Nah I'm playing outlaw
We only have one hunter 
hollow escarp
I would have enough time to get renown until reset
but I'm also tempted to play sin theothar on SLG
stoic needle
Gemstones lines up with every other shiv and vendetta
hollow escarp
already got NF portal
hollow escarp
I will return Venthry once we kill SLG
stoic needle
Hilarious because it was the first covenant I picked
Necro is better for sire
Not even close
Sbs is bugged af
The adds 'die' but u still get like 5cp per sbs
stoic needle
Only takes a couple pulls
hollow escarp
also how do you guys play rogue without being night elf 
I know the dps difference is not relevant
limber lion
Venthyr damage makes me moist.
limber lion
Yeh Belf is decent.
stoic needle
I'm not going to lie I don't notice an overall damage difference between venthyr and necro so far
hollow escarp
at least on what I've seen
gloomy knoll
yea with vigor there's not really any downtime
with deeper u get like a gcd of downtime after garret
if you don't vendetta before that
with vigor i just save it for any drought
hollow escarp
but on most HC fights I started playing Vigor EP and it just does more damage
stoic needle
Sbs in shiv windows and vendetta feels so good
gloomy knoll
don't need vigor for ep
hollow escarp
When there's adds, EP/Vig pulls ahead.
I've seen better results even on Xymox
gloomy knoll
some fights deeper / ep sims higher
limber lion
Yep
gloomy knoll
i think it's better 2target
stoic needle
EP/vig vs ds/bs is literally 15 dps for me so I run EP vig everywhere
hollow escarp
it's also about EP uptime
stoic needle
I made the same choice between MA and subt early on
limber lion
I've seen better results even on Xymox
That might also be rotational or just because EP/Vig feels better to play, so you play it better
hollow escarp
I'm also talking from a IQD cultist pov
stoic needle
I think that BS is less necessary with sbs
quasi oar
What if u don’t have engineering
I did it as venth sub without engineering. Ask for a healthstone
hollow escarp
I did a full clear HC yesterday and I actually beat some of my previous best pulls with that build
limber lion
And EP/Vig wins most fights.
hollow escarp
mfd on sludge as well
my last pillar was scuffed yesterday
for some reason I pressed mfd at 3 cp
stoic needle
hollow escarp
ofc
limber lion
Smile
hollow escarp
the most damage was done by me being frustrated for doing that 
thin oyster
Hey guys, I'm new to rogue and while leveling, I've noticed I'm struggling with energy management (I always tend to be low on energy more often than not)
Was wondering if there were any tips
stoic needle
I'd be hard pressed to notice 15 dps in practice
gloomy knoll
Hey guys, I'm new to rogue and while leveling, I've noticed I'm struggling with ...
are you playing sin
hollow escarp
Hey guys, I'm new to rogue and while leveling, I've noticed I'm struggling with ...
that's how the spec is early on
stoic needle
Hey guys, I'm new to rogue and while leveling, I've noticed I'm struggling with ...
Don't play sin while leveling
thin oyster
Yea
gloomy knoll
get used to it
thin oyster
Assassination
stoic needle
Sin doesn't get it's energy regen passive until lvl 48
limber lion
Hey guys, I'm new to rogue and while leveling, I've noticed I'm struggling with ...
You got poisons on? You using bleeds on multiple targets? What level are you?
thin oyster
You got poisons on? You using bleeds on multiple targets? What level are you?
48 now
And yes I am trying
limber lion
It should get better with Venomous Wounds now
thin oyster
Yea it has gotten better I've noticed, but it just seems that everything costs a lot of energy
limber lion
You don't really need to spam stuff as sin
You apply bleeds and take it easy
Use Shiv and spam during it
Then chill again
thin oyster
Ah I see
limber lion
As long as you don't cap energy, you're gucci
hollow escarp
a big issue while leveling is that most of your damage on a mob comes from builders so when the mob is almost dead you get 4-5 cp to apply a rupture
at that point might as well apply 1-2 cp ruptures
thin oyster
Maybe leveling as sub/outlaw is easier? Then switch to assassination when I get 60?
limber lion
Definitely
hollow escarp
but that's only a rule for leveling
thin oyster
Okay, thanks guys :)
hollow escarp
Maybe leveling as sub/outlaw is easier? Then switch to assassination when I get ...
don't forget to swap back to assa, it's a fun spec 
limber lion
DOT classes are generally not the best for leveling. Like Affli
waxen nebula
Maybe leveling as sub/outlaw is easier? Then switch to assassination when I get ...
get leggo first, then swap to assa
limber lion
Affli is awful.
thin oyster
Yea for sure, it's why I made a rogue in the first place
limber lion
Yea for sure, it's why I made a rogue in the first place
Great!
thin oyster
get leggo first, then swap to assa
Zoldyck first yea?
waxen nebula
Doomblade.
thin oyster
Oh okay, thanks
shell ivy
I did it as venth sub without engineering. Ask for a healthstone
how the hell do u survive 😱
stun + adds
quasi oar
I cloak first stun, vanish first set of ads
Previak+feint second stun
And it should be dead
shell ivy
but arent u gonna reset boss if u vanish?
quasi oar
Nah just press something really fast
I did reset it a couple of times since i was a bit slow
waxen nebula
do you had finality leggo? @quasi oar
compact pumice
Just vanish when GCD is up, Not right after a cast so you can't do anything for a full GCD.
quasi oar
They shoot for a bit then stop shooting
quasi oar
do you had finality leggo? <@!294852609821507585>
Yes
quasi oar
I did around 7,4k dps by the time domina died, i also played draven in case i die, she would still get blown up
waxen nebula
tried dravens soulbind but that passive didn't do anything
she just dissapeared and quickly resetted after i died
quasi oar
Interesting, it always went off for me every time i wiped
I had like 5-6tries on her
Last boss was easy, use cds on first phase, push before you need to soak the add's ability, do the same in p2 with drums, and rotate defensives for the add/during p3
But I'd imagine it's a lot simpler as necrolord
oak cypress
haste/crit on leggo items correct?
sacred isle
Finality won’t make or break you. It’s not a huge dps gain for sub
So u can still do the boss as sub without it
gusty mirage
haste/crit on leggo items correct?
Yes
waxen nebula
Did my best with MA but couldn't get past 8%
Had no defensives, no cds at all, no health pots, no healthstones.
Changed conduits, soulbinds too.
agile geode
Playing as assas or sub?
stoic needle
You can do it with both
I'll probably try sin first because I have doomblade
Not sure if elusiveness feint on cd or leeching poison will be better
gusty mirage
I’m just going to do it on my vdh
stoic needle
Imagine having other characters 
gusty mirage
Imagine having other characters <:clown:742192213517271072>
I have 6 level 60s wanna fight about it?
undone eagle
For assa rogues when you finish move, you regen your SnD
does it also affect the timer on alacrity?
OR ONLY from your envenom
stoic needle
All of your finishers give alacrity stacks so... Yes?
stoic needle
No
undone eagle
i heard on outlaw u wanna do it so i just wanted to see if its same here
stoic needle
Alacrity stacks are not worth minmaxing
With outlaw you can get like a 5+min SnD
You can't do that with cttc, it caps out at the maximum duration of Snd
I don't know anyone who actually cancelauras SnD between packs in m+
plain thistle
its a thing for outlaw
stoic needle
I feel like the value of not needing to press SnD breaks even with having to restack alacrity sometimes
Like it's 'a thing' but who actually does it in practice
plain thistle
because you cant mfd + snd to renew alacrity if you have more than 45~ seconds left
they actually do
stoic needle
Doesn't seem to be that clear cut to me
plain thistle
yeah for sure, but they do, probably something jpc does and everyone copies without knowing for sure if its a gain
royal lantern
you mean like deathly shadows? 🤔
like bruh, why would you cancle a 20sec SnD
instead of using that 5cp from mark for a dispatch/BtE
it litearlly makes no sense
plain thistle
no, you dont need to cancel a 20s snd
just if its more than you can actually get with a 5/6 cb snd cast
because the game doesnt let you cast if its higher than that
stoic needle
I'm not convinced that alacrity stacks are impactful enough to need to minmax it like that
I can understand stacking it up on a turnip before you start a key
sacred thicket
I spent a good half hour tryna get that mount on the rogue but lol nah
chrome sedge
Hey guys what legendary should I craft first? Doomblade or Zoldyck?
sacred thicket
I see doomblade to that question a lot.
plain thistle
what content you do?
waxen nebula
That's your problem
just copied what that sub rogue was doing on the video, used defensives with the same timings.
chrome sedge
i do everything
subtle kiln
dashing is good for everything
stoic needle
Craft a 190 Doomblade and 190 zoldyck
subtle kiln
doom ST
plain thistle
because for pvp doomblade is better, for raid doomblade and dg zoldick
stoic needle
Dashing isn't very good for m+ currently because we don't have the crit to generate enough cp to have good envenom uptime and maintain ct simultaneously
Maybe next tier
chrome sedge
so doom it is I guess
stoic needle
I don't really recommend doomblade for m+ either, it's only good in certain dungeons where the pull sizes are small
chrome sedge
i can see why that is
subtle kiln
dashing is more than fine for all content as a general assa leggo
stoic needle
I think you're kinda inting taking dashing for m+ atm
For the reasons I stated
Especially if you don't have good gear
subtle kiln
idk. you can play doom as assa in m+
stoic needle
You can play it but that doesn't mean it's good
subtle kiln
zoldyck is int when shit falls over
subtle kiln
if shits falling over i’d rather have doom
stoic needle
You'd still do more damage with zoldyck regardless of how long the mobs live
You don't get to envenom much in m+ unless it's top, plaguefall or SD
subtle kiln
group comp will dictate that
stoic needle
You'd be better off with MA for low keys
Group comp isn't going to change anything. Even if you have ww/fire mage bursting everything down you'd do more damage with zoldyck or MA
You don't envenom unless there's like 2 enemies left in a pack
subtle kiln
You don't envenom unless there's like 2 enemies left in a pack
if something needs to die, you’re envenoming it
sacred thicket
all this complicated talk is why I just play something dumb like outlaw in m+ lol
stoic needle
if something needs to die, you’re envenoming it
There aren't that many things that really need to be prioed that hard
sick scarab
guys anyone did Slime Serpent ?
sacred thicket
yeah on pally tank
sick scarab
on rogue i mean
sacred thicket
oh on my rogue i swapped to pally tank and did it
subtle kiln
all this complicated talk is why I just play something dumb like outlaw in m+ lo...
there are multiple ways to play the spec in m+. assa’s tricky point is not hard gimping yourself one way or the other regarding ST / AoE. figure out what you enjoy the most out of it and go from there. personally i’m not running Zoldyck in my typical comp that deletes the majority of packs in a 15-16 key. pushing past that? yes I see more value. right now I wouldn’t spend any soulash until we are close to 9.1.
lavish grove
Hey, for M+ do you keep up Crimson Tempest on single target and bosses also?
plain thistle
outside of shiv windows yes
zealous marsh
guys anyone did Slime Serpent ?
you can do it as sub with some consumables not sure if you can do it as assa tho, mby with leeching poison
saw one dude did that actually so it's doable
lavish grove
how many env is it feasible to get into a shiv window without worrying of overcapping energy?
2-3?
dawn ivy
DS 2, vigor 3
lavish grove
And just to confirm, I always envenom if I land on 4 cp (if i dont need to shiv or garrote for 1cp)?
dawn ivy
but youd have to consistenly pool a bit of energy for those
if you are running vigor, yes finish on 4
if you are running DS, finish on 5+
lavish grove
Thank you !
hazy crater
First reclear
council still horrible
Just can't get my head around how to play it better
vagrant bison
@final star i managed to modify a script to make bars change color if garrote or rupture was present. But i have done it with plater
any good?
i like IQD but half of the times it gives me versa
vagrant bison
i guess that can work as well. I tried to mess up with weak auras for nameplates but there were always problems
final star
works fine for me
The only bug is if I go out of range that nameplate disappears
then come back
it reaplies the aura so it appears twice
but
that's only against dummies where the mob ain't dying
final star
It's kuinameplates
vagrant bison
virgin kuinameplates vs chad plater
final star
and you very likely can make a weak aura that does that
stoic needle
yeah but it wont be on the nameplate
stoic needle
you can replace the buffs/debuffs on the nameplates?
final star
you can make debuffs on nameplates glow
stoic needle
i tried to do it but i couldn't make it work
stoic needle
might as well just use plater then
wary ice
How yall play the dot spec and don't have all your pandemic timers internalized smh
sinful flicker
hey would i go emeni or Heirmir for mythic plus?
limber lion
hey would i go emeni or Heirmir for mythic plus?
Heirmir, gemstone.
sinful flicker
gotcha boss
just curious cause bloodmallet sims emeni higher for hectic add cleave
balmy condor
hectic add cleave is also kind of weird champ
not sure why they decided to use that
final star
herodamage is best friend
balmy condor
it is indeed fine, I just don't understand the point of having it there
I guess cause 90% of classes have no dungeonslice support
it's the best that can be done
vestal wren
the reason is literally that whoever makes the site disslikes dungeon slice
balmy condor
lmao
solar hare
what is HAC
loud latch
Hey guys, sorry if this has been asked but I couldnt find a specific answer. my rogue alt is about to hit 60, Im gonna be mostly alt raiding on it but wanna get some 15's done every week too for vault stuff. Which legendary should I craft first? Is doomblade so bad in dungeons that i'd basically be useless or is zoldyck good enough to justify bringing to raid etc? sorry again if its been asked 🙂
solar hare
wouldnt it just be better to use multi target patchwerk anyway
slow marsh
Speaking of which
balmy condor
it's a boss that has add waves
vestal wren
its a valid reason, a lot of discords/communities disslike dungeon slice for one or another reason
balmy condor
Hey guys, sorry if this has been asked but I couldnt find a specific answer. my ...
really depends on what you're focusing more
solar hare
yeah my hunter friend said they run like 8 different sims for their m+ sim lmao
vestal wren
what is HAC
raid_events+=/movement,distance=25,first=22,cooldown=33,last=337
raid_events+=/movement,players_only=1,distance=8,first=13,cooldown=18```cuz dslice just doesnt exist
vestal wren
^ thats hac
balmy condor
if you aren't even sure if you want to play sin, MA is also perfectly fine
slow marsh
Mad shoutout to the peeps who do such an awesome job keeping our apls up to date across the board.
vestal wren
so its basically 5 ads every 30 secs
solar hare
i feel like you could just use a multi target patchwerk to an extent
balmy condor
i feel like you could just use a multi target patchwerk to an extent
you could
solar hare
idk i dont see a situation where that info is very relevant
sinful flicker
hero damage says emeni is still best for dungeonslice
balmy condor
but why do that when we can use a fight type that is really awkward
vestal wren
the problem with bm/herodamage/etc is that you rly need to run a lot of sims and adding a fight style does make the amount even higher
slow marsh
hero damage says emeni is still best for dungeonslice
What people say here overrides hero damage
slow marsh
When it's close like a lot of things are it comes down to profiles being used
sinful flicker
gotcha. i get you. just wanting to make sure. really appreciate the help
balmy condor
I mean emeni is fine
as much as it is a cop-out
the issue is really you can play whatever you'd like
without much difference
sinful flicker
just wanted to minmax
balmy condor
this is the expansion of "is X better than Y?" and the answer always being "they're so close it doesn't matter"
balmy condor
just wanted to minmax
problem with that is that I can't tell you one way or the other which of them is better
depending on who you play with and how good they are, emeni might be slightly better
if gemstone lines up nicely with pulls, it might be better
sinful flicker
i get what you're saying
balmy condor
we have a lot of very balanced systems as rogues
so I just sit here all day and go "it doesn't matter, I promise"
gleaming tiger
hey guys for raid st
swift dragon
whats the opinon on CT vs PB for CN ?
gleaming tiger
should i use lethal poisons or well placed steel or sudden fructures
swift dragon
should i use lethal poisons or well placed steel or sudden fructures
are you venthyr ?
balmy condor
whats the opinon on CT vs PB for CN ?
PB for single target, CT for aoe and sire
solar hare
should i use lethal poisons or well placed steel or sudden fructures
sudden fractures tends to win against those 2 but WPS is very close
swift dragon
if im gonna pick one for the whole raid
solar hare
depends on your profile
gleaming tiger
@swift dragon nah necro cuz i am playing main outlaw
balmy condor
should i use lethal poisons or well placed steel or sudden fructures
sim it :) usually SF is higher
swift dragon
<@!211204730834255872> nah necro cuz i am playing main outlaw
necro is bis in aoe for sin
balmy condor
if im gonna pick one for the whole raid
I would probably pick CT
swift dragon
I would probably pick CT
aight ty
swift dragon
is it owrth trying to mainiain CT dot on ST ?
gleaming tiger
right
teal bloom
CT better at sire? :o
sinful flicker
@balmy condor i get what you're saying 100% thank you so much for help
solar hare
is it owrth trying to mainiain CT dot on ST ?
when outside of shiv windows
balmy condor
np
swift dragon
when outside of shiv windows
noted
balmy condor
CT better at sire? :o
seems that way
gleaming tiger
@swift dragon i should play emeni right for heirmir's arsenal
swift dragon
intnernal bleeding or prey for raids ?
solar hare
neither do anything in raids
swift dragon
<@!211204730834255872> i should play emeni right for heirmir's arsenal
no idea on that one
solar hare
row is garbo for raiding
gleaming tiger
@swift dragon which conduit is better on necro
swift dragon
i suppose prey could be good for infusers/shades
swift dragon
<@!211204730834255872> which conduit is better on necro
i have no clue, i dont play necro
gleaming tiger
ah okey didnt see it ty
naive frost
is there any reason you wouldnt pair vendetta/shiv? or is macroing them into one cast fine?
balmy condor
you would want shiv to de-rage
naive frost
oh true okay thanks
loud mason
Hey folks, i usally come and check every 2th month or so. are we viable in m+ yet ? :p
final star
rogues weren't viable?
strange python
did 6.5 on p3 sire thats pretty good right 🙂
livid temple
I play sin in M+ and I've just about timed everything at an 18
vestal wren
yes we are viable
loud mason
do i just follow wowhead for talent setup for m+ ?, and do we run zoldyck ?
loud mason
Ait thanks :>
gusty mirage
yes we are viable
"we" is fuu one of us now? 
vestal wren
i didn't switch to paly assassination if thats the question
but subtlety is pretty ded rn
stoic needle
should i use lethal poisons or well placed steel or sudden fructures
sudden fractures
@loud mason this was a mists 17, i'd say its pretty viable
could've probably beat the boomies if it wasn't spiteful
gleaming tiger
@stoic needle i am playing outlaw on m+ i play assa only for some raid bosses
loud mason
that looks really good thou, since boomies gettin the nerf hammer in 9.1 (so far in ptr )
sacred thicket
I feel like it's always been a "better" choice if you wanted to go that route no?
limber lion
MFD sniping is the M+ meta right lmao?
Usually most people just run Vigor, even in very high keys.
So wouldn't exactly call mfd sniping "the meta."
stoic needle
MfD is fine, but I don't find it particularly worth the effort as necrolord. Sbs does mfd's job and does a hell of a lot of damage in the process
I'm sure somewhere out there there's some god gamer who can use MfD and sbs perfectly together but it ain't me
I used to use MfD in keys but I swapped to vigor, I enjoy the larger energy pool
And the st damage boost
iron orchid
I've been trying some shit out as venthyr before going back to necro, ran DS in some keys tried Poisoned katar, tried so much things but this week is so trashy with the spiteful affix
subtle kiln
!google is @balmy condor going to lose it?
limber lion
MfD is a bit of a pain the ass as Necro for sure.
willow oracle
Yes.
iron orchid
I've been enjoying the venthyr MA setup a little too much
limber lion
Ep/Subt/Vigor is still fine this week.
iron orchid
But it is kinda unplayable this week
iron orchid
Ep/Subt/Vigor is still fine this week.
Yeah
Managed to time a SD 21 running DS with CT
Playing with another team from my guild
And that's all for the last few weeks
iron orchid
I just can't wait for next reset to go back to necro, i miss it in keys a lot
It was way more enjoyable
limber lion
I've never been necro, so I wouldn't know 
subtle kiln
you're missing out
limber lion
Probably.
limber lion
Def will swap after a week or two.
limber lion
whats the higher end of p3 damage on sire
Like 6.8-7
subtle kiln
its actually the most fun I've had on rogue since beta
strange python
ok 
still some ways to go then
limber lion
6.3k is a good amount.
strange python
i did 6.5 smile
strange python
i ep vigor
i want to go on the other add platform so i can cleave for a better parse 
limber lion
You're doing Gloom?
strange python
yeah gloom eb vigor
limber lion
:'(
limber lion
It's better in P1 and P2 as well
subtle kiln
i honestly dont miss BS/Deep
limber lion
Each to their own.
oak cypress
is flag generally used before or after vendetta? ofr like when u are first starting a boss pull?
subtle kiln
Each to their own.
yup. lucky enough to have choices
limber lion
is flag generally used before or after vendetta? ofr like when u are first start...
Doesn't really matter. The sim uses Vendetta after Flag.
Flag > Rup > Vend > Shiv > Vanish
In that order.
subtle kiln
using it before as some logs show cuts out the awkward pooling at the start
subtle kiln
you can go either
subtle kiln
yes
toxic thunder
cool thanks
oak cypress
if i understand this correctly, so flag will lash for every CP i spend right? so if i spend 4CP itll lash 4 times?
limber lion
Yup pretty much
oak cypress
you always shiv after vendetta, then shiv on cd correct?
oak cypress
like yeah i meant during
i meant like right after casting mb, poor woding
wording*
balmy condor
np np I didn't read good
silent stratus
is it common that crit/haste > haste/vers for doomblade?
subtle kiln
Sludgefist Mythic is only fight you're not Shiv on CD
oak cypress
u dont shiv on cd for sludge mythic?
subtle kiln
nope. it's pillar, one between pillars, repeat
subtle kiln
is it common that crit/haste > haste/vers for doomblade?
yes, assa loves crit haste
stoic needle
Vers is my worst stat now in both dslice and patchwerk 
Mastery is better than vers on patchwerk for me 
dull osprey
When I sim and select another cov's soulbind, does it sim having the other cov's abil as well?
stoic needle
Yes
subtle kiln
dull osprey
sick nasty
oak cypress
ah ok, yeah 25sec cd on shiv makes sense, means next shiv would be up a little bit before he charges
limber lion
is it common that crit/haste > haste/vers for doomblade?
Yes.
rotund wigeon
Sludgefist Mythic Opener? :<
limber lion
Same as normal, Vendetta a little earlier.
rotund wigeon
true, no idea why i hadnt had it ready the last 40 tries
abstract flicker
short question. i am playing assa/outlaw depends on encounter and raid /m+ . i want to go necro now. is necro assa even good?
limber lion
short question. i am playing assa/outlaw depends on encounter and raid /m+ . i w...
Necro is great!
It works great for all fights, falls slightly behind Venthyr on true ST fights (Arti, Shriek, Hungering) but they're very early in the tier
rotund wigeon
you cast vendetta by 5sec
what about vanish?
ionic kelp
It works great for all fights, falls slightly behind Venthyr on true ST fights (...
lies
rotund wigeon
its on cd ~3-5sec
abstract flicker
ahahahahah
limber lion
its on cd ~3-5sec
So?
The vulnerability lasts 12s
Master Assa lasts for 3s
You don't need it the very second he hits the pillar
jovial oriole
Anything that i can cloak on sludgefist?
limber lion
Anything that i can cloak on sludgefist?
No.
jovial oriole
Aight!
gentle rapids
should I just press Inscrutable Quantum Device on CD or hold it for Vendetta?
limber lion
should I just press Inscrutable Quantum Device on CD or hold it for Vendetta?
Hold for 4-6min fights, press on CD for longer fights.
gentle rapids
ty:)
limber lion
:)
bleak sky
any reason not to open single target with ambush instead of garrote/mutilate?
prisma monolithBOT
Ambush is currently only used from blindside/sepsis proc, not from stealth.
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3).
Some other factors to consider are increased poison applications, blindside, and doomblade. This is true for all talent combinations and legendaries.
limber lion
With Subterfuge you would open with garrote, with MA it's Muti - SnD - Muti. If you proc Blindside, you would use the free Ambush proc instead of the second mutilate.
bleak sky
huh, that's very interesting
halcyon lynx
Quick question, As I would like to go main Assa (Poisons n Bleeds rules ❤️ ), and mainly pve content (M+'s, Raids with intent to eventually go for some mythic raid), with some not high end PvP action ( for some gear mostly), with possibility to switch for some M+ to Outlaw spec (like fortified where dmg to trash is more important), what covenant you would Reccomend? Im thinking hard about Venthyr vs Necrolords!
eager solstice
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
halcyon lynx
Oh true, I didnt look that much into conduits/legendaries 😛 But thanks a lot for the tip!
stoic needle
At this point unless you're pushing world first keys you can play sin in all content
halcyon lynx
Well Im far away from that. Comming back to rogue, and want to make home out of that class again
willow anchor
For assassin Rogue, what spells would most definitely stay in my hotbar?
warped temple
f a n o f k n i v e s
balmy condor
on your hotbar?
I think the list of things that stay in the spellbook would be shorter
detection is worthless for example
sap/blind/distract are very situational in pve, usually don't use those too much while you're starting out
you can play elaborate over blindside in single target, that removes the need for ambush
but aside from that
not really much
oh cheap shot
we don't use cheap shot basically ever in pve
vestal wren
detection is worthless for example
wdym, it makes a nice animation
vestal wren
also its not on the spelllist by default, you need to buy it
halcyon lynx
Conduits that are pinned, are the ones to prioritise while picking soulbind Nadia/Heimir right?
old depot
Is anyone familiar with Ryfie, the sin rogue pushing high keys, and if he actually uses Doomblade?
plain thistle
I think he plays with zoldick
willow anchor
Like, I just started
plain thistle
like a normal person
balmy condor
Is anyone familiar with Ryfie, the sin rogue pushing high keys, and if he actual...
I don't think anyone knows @warped temple
who is that?
plain thistle
you should get used to using everything with keybinds from your hotbar at some point
willow anchor
?
plain thistle
you asked which spells should you put on your hotbar, everything
halcyon lynx
@balmy condor Also we go only for 1 potency conduit, and bonus from last tier on Soulbinds right? (may be obvious, but just want to make sure)
balmy condor
usually, yes
halcyon lynx
So there are some, 'unusual' cases we go for double potency? 🙂
balmy condor
double potency nadjia/theotar isn't bad for m+
emeni is naturally double potency
and a common soulbind
pelagos and mikanikos single target are both double potency
halcyon lynx
Im thinking of going Necro (as suggested to me) . In case I would try outlaw for m+.
warped temple
Is anyone familiar with Ryfie, the sin rogue pushing high keys, and if he actual...
i only play doomblade in PF really, since more than half that place is done with the plague bombs and bosses are scary
plain thistle
yeah, that looks reasonable
stoic needle
Gnashing chompers sims higher than double potency for me in dslice 
Had a 55k envenom on first boss mists earlier 
halcyon lynx
Nice. Cant wait to start gearing my rogue ❤️
Btw with bone spike, can you stack all 3 charges in one mob for ST?
stoic needle
No they don't stack
halcyon lynx
So in ST its just fire and forget?
stoic needle
You use one spike on pull to get the dot up, and the others during shiv for efficient cp
Or during the marrowed gemstones window
Sbs > SnD > mut
halcyon lynx
so it gets snapshots on current buffs while placing a dot?
stoic needle
No
fallen current
Had a 55k envenom on first boss mists earlier <a:NODDERS:770256687755427871>
Big dam.
stoic needle
yup
stoic needle
i want to run doomblade just to see how high i can do on that one
fallen current
Ha
Boomie dps is wild tho
I was in a group with a ret pally who had Templar verdict hit for like 120k each hit. Was dumb.
stoic needle
wtf
fallen current
Monk tank helped but still.
sharp nebula
hei guys, if i have deeper strategem and 4 cp do i use mutilate or finisher ?
stoic needle
yeah that's insane lmao
stoic needle
hei guys, if i have deeper strategem and 4 cp do i use mutilate or finisher ?
mutilate
it's max cp or max-1
sharp nebula
sure cause i thought it can generate up to 4 cps if main and offhand crits
balmy condor
we don't account for seal fate when making decisions
sharp nebula
okey
final harbor
can someone send me a simc string of their venthyr or necrolord soulbinds?
for example:
covenant="night_fae"
soulbind="niya:1,322721/240:5/342270/233:6/320687/231:5/230:6/320659"
soulbind=dreamweaver:2,319217/233:6/246:5/319211/245:5/231:5
soulbind=korayn:6,325066/244:5/325067/233:6/325073/231:5/230:6/325069
conduits_available=237:5/238:5/239:5/240:5/241:5/243:5/244:5/245:5/246:5/247:5/248:5/242:5/228:5/233:6/234:1/235:6/236:5/230:6/231:5/232:6
renown=40
balmy condor
you can top gear soulbinds
fallen current
^
fathom swift
Monk tank helped but still.
tv is holy, not phys damage
willow rain
Is there a decent rogue content maker? Something akin to Barackoshama, but for rogues.
willow rain
Indeed, I’ve seen some distaste for him in this channel. Which is why I ask if there is someone better
stoic needle
justruss is good
willow rain
I’ll check those two out, thank you!
lone finch
what potency conduits should I use if I'm night fae?
balmy condor
wps usually for raid, and lp/katar for m+
raven gyro
Guys, how should I choose between Elaborate Planning + Vigor / Blindside + Deeper ?
stoic needle
Ep/vigor for cleave fights and Sludgefist
Blindside+deeper elsewhere
If you're necro they may sim very close, for me it's within 20 dps so I just run EP/vigor everywhere
raven gyro
thanks
outer lodge
Any Assa Venthyr bois do Slime Mount yet? I don't have a sub legendary...
lone finch
should I use subterfuge in two target cleave or stay on MA?
stoic needle
Subterfuge
heavy trail
Darn some folks ruin groups for m+ by just being lazy getting to the stone lol
atomic obsidian
What would you guys recommend for covenant when it comes to doing both pve and pvp?
subtle kiln
Darn some folks ruin groups for m+ by just being lazy getting to the stone lol
if that triggered them more than likely they would have bounced if there was a single wipe
tropic echo
question for sludge
if your group is lusting first pillar do you flag pull and save vendetta or save both?
balmy condor
question for sludge
if your group is lusting first pillar do you flag pull and ...
you tell your raid leader to stop being an idiot and lust on the last pillar
you would still follow the rule of pull/2/4 or 1/3 depending on the amount of pillars you're doing
I don't understand how lusting first pillar has become some weird standard
bunch of really really stupid raid leaders I guess
subtle kiln
deathly shadows says hello
bleak sky
first boss dps <:pog:740282731660968018>
20k monkaS