besides the bracers
#assassination
stoic needle
solar hare
nope lmfao
drifting cloud
you forgot enchants
solar hare
oh true
stoic needle
are 2 sockets, bracer upgrade and neck upgrade really gonna be like a 200 dps upgrade
limber lion
I have one sim coming up Mori
low girder
are 2 sockets, bracer upgrade and neck upgrade really gonna be like a 200 dps up...
you're running EP/vigor
limber lion
It's a doozy.
low girder
on patchwerk
stoic needle
yes, it's only 20 dps behind DS/BS for me
stoic needle
hmm
drifting cloud
necro
compact pumice
Oh yeah, was gonna link this now:
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/aZF5Uf867zt2xTQ37jqpkF
Thanks for running it man
we got same number
low girder
lol
limber lion
I mean
drifting cloud
did you copy your stats from armory or are they actually same ingame
limber lion
You are doing something wrong in your sim
Because it sims so quickly.
Enchant/gem sims are long as dicks
solar hare
did you copy your stats from armory or are they actually same ingame
simc ofc
limber lion
Ah fair
wanton depot
zoldyk on legs or feet?
solar hare
Running a 400 combo sim with different gear rn, about to take 3 years
limber lion
2% on my sim
And the IQD takes the cake
Just had to swap ring and pants
And a couple of enchants
solar hare
Hmmmm
limber lion
10 huge dps.
balmy condor
zoldyk on legs or feet?
legs atm, might be feet if you can kill mythic kel'thuzad
stoic needle
i can't believe ceverion really greeded his way into the 9.1 bis slot for zold
drifting cloud
legs atm, might be feet if you can kill mythic kel'thuzad
wanton depot
legs atm, might be feet if you can kill mythic kel'thuzad
gonna go with legs for now :p. Dont even know if im gonna play this rogue anyway
limber lion
Ahead of the curve
wanton depot
depends what happens with hunter
stoic needle
hunter is gonna be nuts with those new items i can tell already
limber lion
But I'm still not 100% convinced that feet will be better. Will have to sim it and see.
Wait
Was it
249
and 250 for lege
balmy condor
I doubt it's gonna beat it
stoic needle
limber lion
Get your Zoldy's here boys
stoic needle
stoic needle
limber lion
I thought the lege was like 265 or something.
solar hare
stoic needle
that seems like an interesting choice to me
stoic needle
no soul ash for 260
solar hare
stoic needle
i can't say i dislike it lol
stoic needle
tarragrue and eye of the jailer seem like zoldyck fights
limber lion
Ah
stoic needle
maybe KT
limber lion
Zoldyck tier 
stoic needle
maybe sylvanas too depending on how hard her p3 is
stoic needle
The Nine is a straight up 2/3 target cleave fight
solar hare
gngn
stoic needle
nuke at 10%?
whatever the fuck this clusterfuck is?
500% extra damage done at 10%?
seems like potential zoldyck fights to me
solar hare
found another iqd winner situation https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/sXo7PdFCLGT7U9nY9p9omF
7 dps
o i didnt sim SF
low girder
idk lmao
low girder
got a higher base i guess
winged basin
MY BOYS. after procrastinating I am crafting zoldycks now, haste mastery cause aoe or just haste crit anyways
fervent beacon
ftw when I crafted mine haste/vers
whispyr misled me
winged basin
well you build zoldycks for aoe so thats why didnt know
stoic needle
it's a fine question
compact pumice
well you build zoldycks for aoe so thats why didnt know
Or for execute
on bosses too
fervent beacon
Yeah sin was a bitch to create apl for a bit iirc
stoic needle
if you were an only m+ player you could go crit/mastery for your zoldyck
but i think haste/crit is a nice middle ground, the haste is good for st and somewhat in aoe, and the crit is great for st and aoe
winged basin
yea but you only zoldycks for sire no? so haste mastery seeming like the move
compact pumice
yea but you only zoldycks for sire no? so haste mastery seeming like the move
in 9.0.5 yeah, but who knows on 9.1
eager solstice
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
winged basin
in 9.0.5 yeah, but who knows on 9.1
shit resets in 9.1 so oh well, ill just craft 2
compact pumice
Resets?
stoic needle
the most important part of sire is single target so you'd go haste/crit still
compact pumice
Do you need to recraft legendaries in 9.1?
stoic needle
no
stoic needle
soul ash isn't getting reset in 9.1
winged basin
you know patch shit
stoic needle
the new ranks are upgraded without soul ash too
compact pumice
Debating whether to do Zolds on Legs or Feet now knowing it might be bis in 9.1 with boots
Was just gonna do em this week
hollow escarp
I'm a blood elf now 
compact pumice
I mean, best way would be to make it legs, that way you guarantee you're going to kill Mythic KT due to Moore's Law, just so the universe can screw you over
heady bluff
zoldycks on feet or legs?
hollow escarp
legs
compact pumice
Next tier it will be feet if you kill Mythic KT
balmy condor
maybe
gloomy ridge
hey folks.. if i wanted to focus on strictly single target dps.. what leggo should i go for as sin rogue?
as night fae đŠ
im ilvl 220 now, and and just barely keeping 4k dps doing mythics..
fluid blaze
is there any tip for sire ?
we just got SLG but now big boi sire gotta die and imma play sire anybody got tips :D??
imma play sin*
gloomy ridge
what do recommend for conduit choices?
fluid blaze
Next tier it will be feet if you kill Mythic KT
why?
fluid blaze
oh ok ok
we dont even know whats gonna be the legendary gear at this point
what will be BiS etc
they might nerf or buff us in 9.1
gloomy ridge
Can anyone recommend some good sin rogue twitch streamers to follow?
hollow escarp
Ryfie, Seliathan
gusty mirage
Whispyr when he streams (:
obtuse ruin
Seliathan went to the dark side
gusty mirage
Seli's been messing around with sin in some higher keys
balmy condor
Whispyr when he streams (:
loud niche
<:MenheraHeart4:695915727617523723>
with IQD do i hold it till i have vend?
and what about flag?
i dont understand. My dps feels lower :C
carmine token
Pins say:
Trinkets are not affected by Vendetta, shiv, master assassin (both), or any other spec mechanics. No need to hold damage trinkets for anything.
loud niche
"damage trinks"
low girder
IQD is stats
carmine token
I'd imagine the pvp trinket falls into that as well eh, but its not mentioned either
or the other stats trinkets..
low girder
i believe you hold for vendetta but i'm not @shy dust
grand ridge
achuuallyy IQD will also proc damage
compact pumice
Can anyone recommend some good sin rogue twitch streamers to follow?
I really like to watch Raz play http://www.twitch.tv/raztvx
balmy condor
with IQD do i hold it till i have vend?
and what about flag?
i dont understand. ...
same rule as usual, sync if you won't miss a cast
so 5 min? pull with IQD, IQD at 4 with vend
manic harness
Should I use CT for single target DPS when adds aren't up?
like should I maintain that as well as Rupture and Garrote?
compact pumice
like should I maintain that as well as Rupture and Garrote?
Yes, outside shiv windows
loud niche
same rule as usual, sync if you won't miss a cast
tytyty 
regal cape
Completely forgot, envenom isnt buffed by zoldycks; right?
balmy condor
correct, not buffed
regal cape
Figured, thats how it was in legion
heavy trail
Got to 194 ilevel should i still be frustrated doing about 4-4.5 k in dungeons whenthey go well? Still being outdpsed by fire mages overall though this one was 5.4k dps to my 4.2 k dps and well stuff dies so fast in lower keys I suppose. I guess it's decent? I think the fire mage was like 222 ilevel
balmy condor
well then there's no reason to be frustrated
he's got 30 ilvl on you
4.5k seems fine though for 194
quiet spruce
new to rogue, any pins here leading to good WAs?
balmy condor
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
quiet spruce
perfect, thanks
uneven plume
doing about 7.6k-8k right after fourth pillar on m sludge
is that decent?
getting him down to around 5-7% and wiping
balmy condor
yeh
heavy trail
Thanks not always that high esp if it's a bad tank or a lot of stand in the fire fellers or whatever đ I guess my biggest challenge is deciding when to simply AOE or when to put up more rupt/garrs. And I probably don't refresh my SND as much as I should in those hectic aoe situations.
heavy trail
@balmy condor Still using MA for now do you recommend waiting for 9.1 or should i make a zold now since I mostly do keys? I figure stuff might go the shitter on some stuff so who knows and I also want to make a good PVP lego for assassin since they are gutting MA kinda
uneven plume
the first pillar the gemstone buff comes at the end or right when the phase ends
=[
but is perfectly aligned with 2nd pillar
balmy condor
<@!167090536602140682> Still using MA for now do you recommend waiting for 9.1 ...
nothing else to use ash on
upgrades in 9.1 aren't ash based from what it seems
so craft whatever you'd like
heavy trail
Alrighty thanks
cloud crown
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
manic harness
CT on one target feels really bad
balmy condor
yup
obtuse ruin
In aoe how many ruptures do you want up before envenom spam?
I remember it was three in bfa
3-4
balmy condor
In aoe how many ruptures do you want up before envenom spam?
you don't really ever get to that point
rustic whale
anyone can advice me to when to use Flagg on my opener?
balmy condor
anyone can advice me to when to use Flagg on my opener?
before rup
balmy condor
yeh
rustic whale
aight ty
obtuse ruin
you don't really ever get to that point
What do you mean?
balmy condor
we never spam envenom in aoe
pseudo nimbus
If it seems like I am out of energy all the time. What could I do better in my rotation? Is that a lack of haste?
neat cairn
I guess just like
Pool your energy when you need it
Otherwise go Vigor until you feel comfy then go deeper strat and if that's what you're doing and you're still slow, might just be trying to pres buttons too fast
Just my own input, idk if that's actually a thing or not thatt's recommended
cloud crown
Without damage cooldowns up, how much energy do we need to pool before using Envenom?
stoic needle
max-30
cloud crown
140 or 90?
fallow otter
Your max minus 30 energy
loud trench
Are we usuing ambush procs during shiv windows?
With doom blade lego
For the free cbs or is waiting on a mut better
wispy iris
which dungeons would you consider using doomblade over zoldycks?
agile ledge
Man, im getting 60-80 percentile parses on every mythic boss up to council progression where im doing 9% on the boss.
Im keeping bleeds up on two bosses and using fan of knives when there are 3 or more enemies around me. What am I screwing up?
Id probably be doing more dps if I just focused one boss and ignored everything else but I cant imagine thats what I should be doing.
loud trench
Why is there a pooling mechanic for envenom? Couldnât find an explanation with the guides
gloomy fern
U prolly lose a lot of cp and dmg using fok before p3
loud trench
Ah okay
low girder
Man, im getting 60-80 percentile parses on every mythic boss up to council progr...
you don't FoK til 4+ btw
dark crag
Also you don't lose any dmg as long as you don't overcap cps and/or energy
gloomy fern
That dmg is negated anyway and u gotta luck with crits for a cp gain
agile ledge
Should I still use it on occasion to poison the other boss with my bleeds for that energy gain?
gloomy fern
Ye u can use it during dance for example
dark crag
I play sub at council because ranges are lazy, but the assa logs were mostly full st
gloomy fern
Should keep uptime
agile ledge
Alright, ill try out these tips thanks. Also, we felt like we were totally robbed on a kill tonight because we got a dark recital right when a gargoyle landed on us. Was that bad timing or does that happen every time?
The boss was at ~20% hp
agile ledge
What do you guys do?
gloomy fern
Find ur partner and don't die
dark crag
You have to move in circles and hope that not all healers have to run
hazy crater
Do our best đ just survive
dark crag
As rogue you use cloak and watch others panic
agile ledge
Ah alright. Well ill relay that to my guild. Guess we just need to be aware.
Heh yeah, im not worried about my own survivability lol
Just a little heartbreaking is all. We had everyone alive and we had no idea this was coming up
dark crag
The being apart dmg should not kill you, also you can stagger the jump debuff really good so nobody has to use hs hpots before
gloomy fern
Last 50% is kinda only hard part with lots of overlaps
agile ledge
We finally got the first 50% and was making good progress tonight. Hopefully we'll get them down next week.
gloomy fern
Most guild prob is prolly attendants live to long cus ppl panic and don't swap lol
strange python
On my guild's kill we managed to push hard enough right before 3rd dance so we ended up skipping a gargoyle completely. Ended up not getting that bad recital overlap with the gargoyle spawn
agile ledge
I just dont see my guild doing that.
strange python
What we were trying to do to deal with that was make sure everyone is stacked together at a certain angle where it was expected to spawn so it doesn't knock back everyone in 10 different directions. But I can't confirm if that actually works tho
agile ledge
Yeah we were thinking about that. Thanks for the tip
weak horizon
Have they fixed the theotar stealth bug?
balmy condor
No
main forge
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
In general simming yourself is the recommended way to determine stat weights.
The following is a general recommendation, but you will always get more accurate results through simulation.
Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery
willow isle
Is anyone using poison build? Seems decent for me where deadly poison is 22-25% of my total dmg. (M+ with zoldyck)
balmy condor
What goes into this âpoisonâ build
willow isle
Master poisoner, lethal poison conduit and zoldyck? :D i think :D But Poison master is overal not recomended
balmy condor
Yeah that
Doesnât sound great
Honestly just sounds like the normal setup but with a worse conduit and a worse talent
weak horizon
What seems to do better in m+ right now, the MA build or the zoldyck build?
willow isle
What is optimal sim dps for +-203ilvl assa?
balmy condor
Who knows
faint harness
9 million dps
gloomy fern
@faint harness is sin now 
balmy condor
I remember getting a 208 profile to 6k
faint harness
đ«
balmy condor
But thatâs like giga optimized
undone eagle
When you open in m+ with packs its basically 3x garrote + FoK > CT what ive learned from u , but when to use shiv?
gloomy fern
what did u waste it on this time
faint harness
undone eagle
Right after the finisher?
gloomy fern
i mean its like 20 min for both
faint harness
ye but literally havent played the game
gloomy fern
so lazy
balmy condor
When you open in m+ with packs its basically 3x garrote + FoK > CT what ive lear...
Get a rupture up, then toss it out
undone eagle
Get a rupture up, then toss it out
You mean i use it before putting the rupture on target or after??
gloomy fern
but indeed, have been working at the office last 2 weeks and i am so tired when i get home
gloomy fern
but tonight there is PoE 
undone eagle
Nvm i understood it wrong
I was thinking of getting dots up
xD
Thanks
6k + dps overall is fine in m+? @balmy condor
I run 19/20âs
balmy condor
Probably a little low
undone eagle
U always wanna be above 6.5k?
balmy condor
Yeh if youâre doing 20âs I would assume around 7k
undone eagle
Aight cheers because maybe u remember i told u guys i was doing wrong rotation, also rupturing with 5 dot
But now with your tips its much better
balmy condor
Howâs the rest of the group dps look?
undone eagle
Around the same xD
Sometimes im top dps i dont know how i can outdps a mage or druid
balmy condor
Then itâs probably fine tbh
undone eagle
Or is it normal
undone eagle
Alright cheers, i mean it would obviously be a problem if im like 6k and rest 7k+ haha
I just need to solve the plates when im focusing target
Still dont know why it resets
Somehow in m+ it resets but in general it doesnt
Maybe it is set that this only appears when they are focusing me?
balmy condor
But if youâre doing dos/mists 6k is kinda trash
balmy condor
Oh yeah thatâs fine
undone eagle
Also halls could be 6.5-7k if tank pulls big like this kind of affix đ
balmy condor
Halls can be 8k
undone eagle
Thats poggers, i like how massive pulls u can do in this dungeon
But i miss sub rogues in this case, just spam FoK + powder đ€Ł
balmy condor
Like Iâm pretty sure 9k is technically possible in a giga dungeon like dos
If everything falls into place
I havenât seen it
But judging by ryfieâs dps
It seems doable
undone eagle
Ryfie is a known assa player?
balmy condor
Ryfie is the current rank 1 m+ sin rogue
iron orchid
Don't forget that the spiteful shades leave you in combat and thus have an influence on your details recap, because you don't always damage them
balmy condor
undone eagle
Cheers
thorny glen
what covenant does Ryfie use?
sand gyro
what covenant does Ryfie use?
Necro
thorny glen
oh yeah it says necrolord, had trouble finding the spot on raider IO
all good thx
im venth right now is it worth the switch? I mostly M+ and pvp
solar hare
If you mostly m+ and pvp i would say necro is very worth personally speaking
lean rover
indeed, if raiding is the least of your concern necro is the go to
thorny glen
sounds good thx
faint harness
indeed, if raiding is the least of your concern necro is the go to
necro aint bad for raiding either
lean rover
yep yep
gloomy fern
neat jacinth
Hey guys, one quick question regarding opening on packs in M+: With subt you obviously open with 3 gar. But what do you do after that if SnD is not up yet and you do not have any spare CP? FoK into CT and after that going for SnD into as many Gar and Ruptures as possible (obv. not overriding empowered Gars)
compact pumice
Wow, top Assa parse on Sire Denathrius is pretty good. Very high boss damage and without CT or Hidden Blades.
Necrolord too
zinc frost
Hey guys, one quick question regarding opening on packs in M+: With subt you obv...
4th garrote if itâs 4+ mobs for opener usually.
stoic needle
4th garotte can risk energy starvation and when not empowered isn't more damage than a rupture so it's not always required
Ideally, you refresh snd with the cp left over from the previous pack before reopening
Otherwise, you don't apply it all if there's 5+ targets
fast bramble
So im seeing different things on here and wow head in terms of potency conduits for necro Im currently using sudden fractures but Im seeing well placed steel as best?
stoic needle
I usually do a mut into a 2-3cp snd, or a sbs into a snd
Sudden fractures is better than wps
It sims better for single target and aoe for me
stoic needle
Mine is still ilvl 145 pepehands
Gonna try to kill h sire tomorrow
Didn't get any from the callings I've done this week
limber lion
Wow, top Assa parse on Sire Denathrius is pretty good. Very high boss damage and...
Also has PI.
foggy moat
is there a point (like on warrior) for haste to be at minimum?
lean rover
Also has PI.
you're still our champion ceve 
foggy moat
does internal bleeding work on CC immune targets?
stoic needle
No
foggy moat
well thats sad, is it ever worth taking crimson tempest over PB for the bleed bonus on envenom?
solar hare
Typically doesnt outway PB gain
Over 100 dps loss for me on single target to not take PB :p
foggy moat
even with my shit rng? xD i always get PB when the mobs/boss is moving or not at all xD
solar hare
The dot from pb is over 3 seconds so, its quite short
undone eagle
What cov is Ryfie? Cant see on phone
solar hare
Necrolord
zinc frost
4th garotte can risk energy starvation and when not empowered isn't more damage ...
Iâve never had an issue with energy doing garrote x 4 into CT for an opener.
noble ocean
Does Ct ticks give energy back on poisoned targets?
limber lion
No.
lean rover
that would be madness
fallen arch
prisma monolithBOT
stoic needle
Iâve never had an issue with energy doing garrote x 4 into CT for an opener.
It's absolutely possible if you don't get poison procs on every target you garotte, especially if you aren't using vigor
limber lion
It's absolutely possible if you don't get poison procs on every target you garot...
It's not if you're at max energy.
But if you're going from pack to pack in quick succession you don't necessarily have max energy when you open.
stoic needle
4 garottes is 180 energy
It's possible but not guaranteed
Vigor is good insurance against getting starved, but if you have MfD it's very possible
limber lion
You always get 3 empowered garrotes
stoic needle
Yeah, I'm talking about the 4th one specifically
limber lion
And might need to wait a half a gcd or one gcd for the 4th one
But does it matter if it's instantly applied or not?
Similar to playing DS on ST you wait for energy to apply garrote
Because I just did it on 4 targets by removing all of my poisons
And it's not that bad.
stoic needle
Ya that's exactly what I'm talking about. That's the starvation. Could be even worse if you get unlucky. It's not a huge difference either way, but I'd rather just fok into ct because it's a better chance of spreading posions and more damage overall
limber lion
But it's honestly not that bad.
Also FoK is 35 energy
It's not like it's really cheap either.
CT is 35 energy as well
Here's a gyazo of me applying 4 garrotes in a row without poisons
And it's honestly not bad at all
Sure it can be preference, but it's not that bad.
I just get the impression that it's like 3s of afk because you're energy starved
When it's not even 1 gcd extra.
The problem does arise when you open up on a pack with like 80 energy
Then it's so awful
And I 100% agree
Fuck 4 garrotes at that point lmao
stoic needle
Well it's
- Less damage
- More risky
So why bother? Lol
stoic needle
Yes, I went through this with Seliathan before
limber lion
The ideal opener with Vig/Subt is gar gar gar gar ct
Why wouldn't you do gar gar gar fok ct gar with Vigor as well then?
stoic needle
An unempowered garotte isn't very huge damage wise
Rupture is usually more DPE
And so is CT
limber lion
Ye but garrote is the best ability in our kit I dare say
stoic needle
Fok is more dpe than a garotte when you consider the poison application
limber lion
Because it 1. gives us energy 2. doesn't cost combo points.
And 3. does decent damage
Like we went over yesterday comparing stealth and no stealth
Empowered garrotes are not that giga.
It's mainly the energy which you get
For free
By just slamming it on a target.
stoic needle
Don't get me wrong garotte is great, but I'm pretty sure in the context of the opener it's better to put up a rupture instead of another garotte from a pure energy standpoint
Because rupture ticks faster
And costs less
limber lion
In theory it doesn't.
Because you need to build up combo poinjts
And those generators cost energy.
Best case scenario (1 FoK) one maxed out Rupture is 35 + 25 energy
60 energy for 24s
VS 45 energy for 18
Except that you will not have the best case scenario happening most of the time
And most of the time you use 2-4 FoK's to build up combo points for rupture.
Also what makes you say that rupture ticks faster?
stoic needle
Doesn't it?
limber lion
No.
stoic needle
limber lion
Where did you hear that?
swift dragon
Wow, top Assa parse on Sire Denathrius is pretty good. Very high boss damage and...
?
why would you ever use HB or CT in raid
why would you ever use CT in general
low girder
For.. aoe?
limber lion
why would you ever use CT in general
You're trolling right?
limber lion
Garrote on dummy with 89% uptime, 40 hits.
obtuse ruin
is CT usually top damage for m+? or garrote?
limber lion
is CT usually top damage for m+? or garrote?
Gar or CT, depends on the dungeon.
Sometimes even melee.
stoic needle
I heard it from seli
I went back to look at the discussion and the argument was that while garotte does good damage on its own, it's bad at cp generation which is our bottleneck in aoe situations. Comparing it to fok it has good dpe on low target counts but not as much on higher ones, and you could make up the difference by foking and rupturing more instead of garotting
Spending a gcd to only get 1cp becomes worse when the target counts get higher or somesuch
limber lion
But you don't use garrote as a combo point generator mainly
You use it for damage and energy.
You would use it even if it gave you 0 combo points.
stoic needle
#assassination message here's where the discussion starts if you want to read it yourself
Well the damage and energy becomes less of a concern if fok and rupture spam is more efficient in the long run
limber lion
Okay well Seli is wrong then
Because Garrote and Rupture have the same tick rate.
compact pumice
sorry HB*
I think 4th top parse uses HB. Itâs just to cheese damage meters in phase 1 basically. I guess itâs fine that first one FOK you do on Cabalists, but yeah generally to just parse higher on that fight without really doing âusefulâ damage.
limber lion
swift dragon
I think 4th top parse uses HB. Itâs just to cheese damage meters in phase 1 basi...
i mean id rather run poison bomb for even more execute damage with zoldycks
limber lion
This is the opener used by the sim on multiple targets.
It's the exact same opener on 4 targets and 10 targets.
With Subt/MFD that is.
limber lion
I think 4th top parse uses HB. Itâs just to cheese damage meters in phase 1 basi...
I still did the same amount of damage than the r1 in P3 even though I ran CT 
stoic needle
Shiv fok ct
Interesting
Doesn't get ct up until 8.5 seconds in though that's an oof
swift dragon
zoldycks is our best leggoright ?
loud niche
cev what do you sim IQD with %chance to proc stats to determine if you should use it vs other trinks?
limber lion
zoldycks is our best leggoright ?
For M+ and AOE yeah
loud niche
zoldycks is our best leggoright ?
doomblade ST
limber lion
cev what do you sim IQD with %chance to proc stats to determine if you should us...
I just use 100% because I never let it fail.
swift dragon
wait what
compact pumice
I still did the same amount of damage than the r1 in P3 even though I ran CT <:o...
Nice! CT is just slightly less in sims right? Did he do a lot more p2 damage to Sire then? Seems he did more boss damage overall (at least if you check the Damage to bosses column for top parses).
swift dragon
isnt the execute dmg a lot more valuable for CN ?
limber lion
Nice! CT is just slightly less in sims right? Did he do a lot more p2 damage to ...
Yes he did more damage in P2. He got PI'd in P2 for padding purposes.
limber lion
isnt the execute dmg a lot more valuable for CN ?
No.
loud niche
How do you manage that on 2nd shade phase of sun king?
stoic needle
For sire and during prog maybe
swift dragon
oh right
limber lion
How do you manage that on 2nd shade phase of sun king?
Yeah that's a fight where I just wouldn't run IQD at all tbh.
swift dragon
yeah my guild is still on mythic prog
stoic needle
Sanctum of domination is gonna be a zoldyck raid
limber lion
Probably same with Huntsman
stoic needle
Trust
swift dragon
were almost there
limber lion
That's because the healers purposefully drain their mana on that fight
So it's not realistic to use IQD there really.
compact pumice
How do you manage that on 2nd shade phase of sun king?
Same as first but you have to offtank some adds.
swift dragon
theres a lot of aoe in CN tho, wouldnt that make a case for zoldycks
loud niche
Same as first but you have to offtank some adds.
?
stoic needle
Most of the aoe in CN is padding
limber lion
And there's really not.
swift dragon
k then
stoic needle
Sun king - padding
Council - padding
Slg - actual aoe
Inerva - really more cleave than actual aoe
Huntsman - cleave
swift dragon
how are sunking nd council padding ?
limber lion
cev, you get sire down?
Yeh, I got r1 from it as well.
swift dragon
90% of sunking is adds
limber lion
how are sunking nd council padding ?
Usually you have other people dealing with adds on Council and your duty is just pumping boss, but if your comp is not fit for it, I don't consider it padding.
hazy crater
only important part of sun king is single target shields of the boss
swift dragon
council is a 3 target fight with adds you need to constantly burst down
loud niche
how are sunking nd council padding ?
the only thing that matters is boss dmg on sunking, and dps to non target boss is erased, but you still dot 1 other boss because energy regen
limber lion
Sun King is not padding because the whole fight revolves around adds.
But that's also the reason it doesn't give allstar points.
swift dragon
right
limber lion
@stoic needle
https://gyazo.com/ea30458cb4d4dfe22d4563e8fc2d9833
Here's a single garrote with 0 haste
Garrote definitely does not tick once every 3s.
loud niche
lol, if you're worried about any adds being alive on council you're missing a boomie from raid
limber lion
Otherwise it would have been 6 hits, not 10.
swift dragon
i suppose this will get clearer as i start actually raiding with my rogue, only done it with monk/enhance/arcane so far
limber lion
Seli is wrong about garrote tick rate and rupture being faster.
They're both the same.
loud niche
seli streaming atm
stoic needle
Council is a single target fight because the other bosses heal to full. So it's really single target the whole time. Rogue in general is not the best class to be taking out the adds on sks or council. If you're being relied on for your aoe in those situations you have team comp issues
limber lion
But "not being the best at dealing adds" doesn't mean that you don't touch the adds.
Even multi-dotting adds is a gain on ST.
loud niche
Well, to a point.
stoic needle
Sure, but you wouldn't go zoldyck for those fights is the main point
limber lion
That's true.
loud niche
5 bleeds iirc is the max you upkeep on non-prio target in council? plus you're not spending enough time with those adds alive for zold to out gain doomblade in dps
stoic needle
It's more damage, but in the goal of killing the boss it isn't important damage unless it helps you kill the bosses faster, which is why zoldyck isn't used
loud niche
cev, someone took r1 from you on sire already?
stoic needle
Dishonest pi gamers 
loud niche
bro NotLikeThis
limber lion
I wouldn't have cared that much
If it was the next day
But it was technically the same day still
shy dust
Sun King is not padding because the whole fight revolves around adds.
Idk about that one chief
limber lion
Well Rae you think that every single fight is a pad fight.
And doing anything else but ST is pad.
shy dust
When have I said that?
limber lion
Idk just sounds like it whenever you complain about people getting high parses on Sire for example.
fickle trout
!sim
limber lion
Okay, explain how you think that SSK is a pad fight.
What do you hit during the downtime
When the Shade is not there
Do you just afk?
shy dust
So you plan around attacking and doing the most add damage
loud niche
Do you just afk?
I do đ
shy dust
Thatâs how you killed the boss on prog?
You were out pressing CT on the adds during prog?
shy dust
Iâm talking about sunking dude
shy dust
Iâm not sure why youâre on about sire
sullen pagoda
imagine doing high boss dmg p3 instead of forgetting to use trinket and pot @limber lion smh my head try harders 
still did 6.1k but meme when i checked my usage
limber lion
But yeh anyways
Some people are not on shield duty on SSK
And are meant to just pump as much damage on Shade as possible, me included
sullen pagoda
I mean sunking early prog you shouldve played sub anyway
limber lion
I was told to use Vendetta the second it spawned
sullen pagoda
it was really good for that boss
limber lion
Because we had enough shield damage
loud niche
cev how much dmg you do to shade overall?
limber lion
Am I padding?
limber lion
cev how much dmg you do to shade overall?
Haven't recleared that boss in 3 months, no clue.
limber lion
But thatâs not aoe
No, but I did choose AoE oriented talents as well
loud niche
i have 844k from 2 nights ago :S
shy dust
When even in early prog it didnât
limber lion
Because I didn't have to focus on instant shield burst damage.
You still need to kill adds in SSK
shy dust
And I would say that was not optimal
Yes of course
You have to kill the adds
That is a truth
Does not mean itâs weighed as importantly
Waiters need to die too on council
limber lion
It's just really black and white
For some comps it is the more important part
Where they struggle to kill the adds
shy dust
I wouldnât say it is black and white
sullen pagoda
I mean if he was using CT on sun king prog it still wouldnt matter
cuz losing PB isnt really spec breaking
limber lion
Yeah, no, but what you're saying is black and white
limber lion
Where "boss damage is the most important thing"
sullen pagoda
i mean its a healer fight
shy dust
That are just reallt st checks
sullen pagoda
early sunking progress was basically shield damage and shield healing
rest was irrelevant
limber lion
Some comps are just awful ST heavy
shy dust
early sunking progress was basically shield damage and shield healing
Yeah exactly
royal lantern
Some comps are just awful ST heavy
eh, 99%of the time its people not focusing in aoe, and not a class problem tbh
limber lion
eh, 99%of the time its people not focusing in aoe, and not a class problem tbh
Yeah this is big true as well
royal lantern
like, only rogue is in that weird" i can only do st or aoe"situation, all other classes just need too swap talents or play slightly different
limber lion
Some people just don't know how to press their buttons.
sullen pagoda
like start of fight is basically just 1 fire mage combust cleans the room
but does it even matter
irrelevant fight
swift dragon
Sure, but you wouldn't go zoldyck for those fights is the main point
if im not pushing realm first and am also interested in M+, is zoldyck the play ?
limber lion
No it doesn't.
That's why I said earlier that there's a reason it doesn't give allstar points
royal lantern
zoldyck is the play for most progression stuff tbh
swift dragon
we also have kindof a lack of execute in our comp so yeah
royal lantern
doomblade is slightly" simbait tbh
swift dragon
1 warr and 2 fire mages
royal lantern
not meant in a bad way
sullen pagoda
tbh zoldyck on sunking actually sounds great
stoic needle
if im not pushing realm first and am also interested in M+, is zoldyck the play ...
Yep
sullen pagoda
cuz last shield people usually are all out of cds and shit
royal lantern
but like, the difference bettwen doomblade and zoldyck is really small, and the execute help zoldyck proviides is big
swift dragon
yeah
limber lion
I would 100% run Zoldyck on SSK
swift dragon
as i said we have very little execute in our comp so i feel as tho zoldyck would be better
sullen pagoda
yeah zoldyck is legit the play there i think
swift dragon
zoldyck seems like a better all rounder
limber lion
Even if you don't need the help necessarily, it's still extra damage that you're missing out on if using Doomblade.
As long as you got people blasting the shields.
Of course if you're put to shield duty, you should respect your raid leaders orders and build toward that
sullen pagoda
yeah imo tbh if you werent sub during 8.0 sunking you were kinda trolling a bit
sullen pagoda
like sub was bringing giga dmg 1 shield and u get SoD back for 2nd
limber lion
Yeh definitely.
shy dust
It worked perfectly to the issues on prog
limber lion
Sub was great.
sullen pagoda
i guess my view of sunking shield also might be a bit skewed cuz i had boomkins that didnt get concept of pooling astral power for shields
royal lantern
still played outlaw cus the only problem we had was bigbrain locks not holding cds 
ye that too
swift dragon
were a pretty fluid raid, the only people specifically on shield duty are our 2 druids, most people turn around and kill the ad if it ever gets to melee range
shy dust
I mean at least early on the tier
royal lantern
when the druid brain hits hard
shy dust
It was a bit challenging to break shields
sullen pagoda
love to see wipe to shield and u go boomkin dmg: sunfire > moonfire > wrath spam 10/10
shy dust
Just to everyone being low ilvl
royal lantern
love to see wipe to shield and u go boomkin dmg: sunfire > moonfire > wrath spam...
IT WAS BAD CONVOKE RNG!!!111111!!!!!
sullen pagoda
XD
faint harness
We were 204 avg on first sk kill
sullen pagoda
@faint harness not being 213 on first week of mythic smh my head
sullen pagoda
i remember being hated by whole guild with my luck
swift dragon
i feel like boomies are getting a very bad rep becuse a bunch of smoothbrain fotm players swapped to it and dont understand how it works
magic summit
Seeing your talking about zoldyck is that the all around play? As an prog/M plus if you don't want to make more then 1 ?
royal lantern
no
druids have bad rep cus most oif them are cunts
ngl
we talk about DRUIDS here
the class that complained about zenflight so much that blizzard killed the skill
"INSTANT FLYING IS DRUID FANTASY AND YOU RUINED IT!!!!"
swift dragon
I remeber my old garbo guild had a corner of shame for boomies and the poor guy was not allowed to xperience altimor over fearsthat covoke might fuck up shades
swift dragon
the class that complained about zenflight so much that blizzard killed the skill
zenflgiht is monks
the fuck are you on about lmao
faint harness
Read maybe lol
swift dragon
dont you come after my fartcloud
shy dust
Yeah
royal lantern
yes
royal lantern
zenflight was flying mount speed in mop
swift dragon
my smoothbrain has just comprehended your sentence
royal lantern
but druids complained about it for years that it "kills druid fantasy" cus it was a instant flying mount
so blizzard killed the skill
swift dragon
wait they chaned it because of druids complaining
seriously
druids get instant mountand shapeshifting
how the fuck does my fartcloud clash with their class fantasy
faint harness
@shy dust k it was 208 ilvl avg actually
shy dust
When did you kill it?
faint harness
dec 22
shy dust
Yeah
shy dust
That was 2nd week yeah
faint harness
checks out
faint harness
shy dust
Still to this day have not seen a M shriek trinket
faint harness
weird
reef axle
any special way to use the quantem device or just on cd?
shy dust
Itâs a gain to sync it with vendetta if youâre not losing casts pretty sure
And yeah we donât even really sell the boss it just doesnât drop
13 kills no trinket
shy dust
swift dragon
do i cast vanish off cooldown in raid with BS/MA/DC
reef axle
so sync quantem with vendetta?
limber lion
so sync quantem with vendetta?
In under 6 min fights, yes.
swift dragon
It should just normally line up
vanish and shiv ?
limber lion
More specifically 4:30-6min fights.
solar hare
@limber lion i was playing with iqd on M Sire prog yesterday
Needless to say
That was a lot of fun
On Evershade i vend iqd and was topping by an absurd amount
Avg of like 350k dam to him
Think he has like 1.1 mil
heavy trail
For M+ if i decide to swap to NL, how does one use the bone spike thing nicely with all the other things you want to try and do (ruptures,garrotes, CT) to make it smooth. How does it fit into the priority and when to use it versus aoe while determining how long mobs will live? Seems like it might make it even more stressful haha. Just perhaps someone can give a bit of scenario details
strange python
Basically stealth into as many garrotes as you can, then rupture 1 target, then start using bone spikes on then different targets to build combo points then crimson tempest, then refresh garrotes when you can while applying ruptures until crimson tempest is down then tempest again. Bone spikes are more used to generate combo points easily without using much energy. @heavy trail
heavy trail
Alright thanks. Which soulbind do you use for keys mainly? And do you find it's better worth switching from venthyr ?
strange python
I am necro for life only cause bone spike is the coolest ability in the game so I don't know the comparison. I use Heirmer marrowed gemstone with the bone spike potency
zinc frost
Bonespike low hp snipes is more than enough to keep me necrolord đ
zinc frost
For M+ if i decide to swap to NL, how does one use the bone spike thing nicely w...
Generally I open with garrote x 4 > CT > SBS target 1 > SBS target 2 > rupture > SBS target 3 >rupture/snd
heavy trail
Alright guess i can use 1st guy pvp second guy sub and third guy for m+
alpine garden
Has there been any discussion about the 9.1 datamining?
hazy crater
There's like absolutely nothing yet PvE wise for rogues so not much
swift dragon
I really hope 9.1 isnt just korthia dung and a raid
wow is going to be hanging on by an even thinner thread if it is
versed mica
they announced a new zone lol
swift dragon
korthia is the new zone
its currently 2 small questlines and about 4 npcs
as well as a weekly for leggo upgrading that if it stays a weekly is going to require veryone to get 250ksih gold for leggos
low girder
Far as I'm aware this is the first time we've had any landmass additions in a .1 patch
heavy trail
for M+ is sudden fractures worth it to use or the other potency ones ?
thorny glen
might be stupid questions but does bone spike help energy regen when you have multiple targets spiked like your other bleeds/dots do?
zinc frost
for M+ is sudden fractures worth it to use or the other potency ones ?
Sudden fractures for m +
lean rover
might be stupid questions but does bone spike help energy regen when you have mu...
nop
thorny pond
might be stupid questions but does bone spike help energy regen when you have mu...
No. CT doesn't either or doomblade, just Garrote & Rupture
low girder
And also Internal Bleeding, but not really worth considering
heavy trail
Alright had SBS for about 5mins on dummies and it's already more fun then flag lol. Had to add a count WA thingy and will now work on the renwown. Thanks for the help here. đ
That's hilarious though kinda chill around 3 dummies with it never ending lol
obtuse valley
Curious does anyone here run scoundrel with good results? Wondering if itâs worth messing around with after I make doombkade as my first lego, not doing any prog on it since Iâm just alting my rogue for now so I kinda want to test some of the alternate legos
alpine garden
There's like absolutely nothing yet PvE wise for rogues so not much
There was some stuff on soulbinds that looked interesting
odd hazel
wow is going to be hanging on by an even thinner thread if it is
thinner thread? seems to be doing fine.
heavy trail
seems like sbs gets a bit confused with WA multi target stuff due to the never ending duration lol
swift dragon
thinner thread? seems to be doing fine.
What glue are you snorting
limber lion
Avg of like 350k dam to him
đ hell yeah, IQD is the play on Sire for sure. It lines up very well with the adds and you get an use out of it in P3 as well
frail fossil
cant believe i passed on a 226 iqd now i have to farm dos 
low girder
Just have gear where you can't get crit as highest stat
limber lion
cant believe i passed on a 226 iqd now i have to farm dos <:OMEGAKEKW:8290511063...
I farmed for it as well, it's not too bad
frail fossil
u need to have crit higher than haste right ?
frail fossil
I farmed for it as well, it's not too bad
yeah just this weeks ass cuz i cant play MA
limber lion
Yeh crit highest, haste second.
frail fossil
and m+ without MA is just pain
limber lion
frail fossil
Just play Assa
i would rather just not play at all
frail fossil
Don't have deathly as outlaw? Slacking
i could but i have to recraft doomblade oopsie
sturdy merlin
Hi any thoughts on using dommblade instead of zoldyck for ToP ?
limber lion
It's fine, on Fort weeks you should still run Zoldyck but there is an argument to be made for Tyrannical ToP
sturdy merlin
Okay i'll stick to zold then đ going for 22 top now
peak jungle
Comparing the pins for dungeon slice Sub vs Sin, it really looks like they're virtually equal in M+
Having a hard time choosing what I want to spec as in M+ to play optimally outside of going outlaw
spice spire
I actually have a question about sun king (m). AoE doesnât seem to be the problem for the group, should I just go ST to funnel the shield?
spice spire
Follow up: should I do CT over PB if I run Doomblade for the extra 5% envenom? Also CT for adds, w/e
That fight is literally just shields lol
limber lion
I would go CT.
spice spire
Ty papa cev
limber lion
PB is unpredictable and the boss is not there most of the time.
With CT you get consistent damage without any chance of RNG or movement rendering your last talent choice useless.
spice spire
That was my thinking as well, thank you đ
limber lion
Good luck! 
limber lion
SLG takes the cake there.
lean rover
it's a fun fight, at least the first 15sec.. if you're a fire mage 
(Sun king)
quiet valley
There are few things i am as happy about as being on the bench for SLG prog
peak jungle
In AoE situations, if i'm reading the guide properly, on 3 targets you're using mutilate and not FoK? Still keeping up garrote/rupture/deadly poison on each
lean rover
In AoE situations, if i'm reading the guide properly, on 3 targets you're using ...
yes
peak jungle
@lean rover finisher wise, what is the target threshold for using CT over envenom in AoE situations?
obtuse valley
So should I make doomblade or zoldyck first if im going to do both raid/m+ (really only planning on playing sin)? I was kind of wanting to try playing dashing scoundrel but seems like its mainly only competitive in ST.
lean rover
<@!240933702287360000> finisher wise, what is the target threshold for using CT ...
you just keep the bleed from CT up (12sec at max cp) and then use envenom (or Rupture if targets will leave long enough for rupture doing almost all it's damage).
And there is no "target cap", you have CT, you use it. On ST just don't use it during shiv window
spice spire
The first 30ish seconds of council i deadass fok- rupture - Mut - rupture - go to pedestal and everything is dead
lean rover
The first 30ish seconds of council i deadass fok- rupture - Mut - rupture - go t...
council ?
spice spire
Yep lmao
swift dragon
pedestak on council ?
icy crater
lean rover
are we talking about The council of Sun king ?
swift dragon
spice spire
Correct
Not the actual raid boss council. This ones just the burst phase only mechanic
swift dragon
what ?
spice spire
SLG is way more of a fight. Sun king is literally just âfunnel the shields and winâ If you have enough aoe
limber lion
swift dragon
sludge is worst fight in the riad
patent topaz
so very wrong
swift dragon
if you play any melee class thats not a ret pally you get forced to play like one
patent topaz
sludge is the only fight thats not absolute trash
swift dragon
theres a reason I dont play that class, its boring as fuck
swift dragon
sludge is the only fight thats not absolute trash
average outlaw main 
patent topaz
I play assa but whatever
prisma monolithBOT
cold sparrow
Honestly, no idea, trying it out lmao. Was looking for info on CT cause I want to learn Assa for m+, outlaw is not fun for me :P
cold sparrow
Thanks đ
quiet valley
sludge is worst fight in the riad
How so? I would say its pretty fine for assa
swift dragon
havent played it on assa but on monk it is pure pain
CN imo is one of the more fun raid tiers, aside from sludge and sometimes council
spice spire
Monks
patent topaz
imo CN is one of the worst tiers in a long time
swift dragon
uldir was a lot worse
patent topaz
sire is good but most of the bosses get worse the better your gear is
which fuckign sucks
swift dragon
thats the only other start tier i experience
antorus remains my first and favourtie
then its CN/Uldri/Nyalotha
quiet valley
Apart from sun king, council and SLG i really liked this tier
I guess xymox is trash on farm but prog was fun
patent topaz
first 3 are fine, artificer is trash, inerva is a non encounter, sun king is trash, council is trash, slg is trash. Sludge and sire are fun
swift dragon
xymox is best fight in the raid imo
quiet valley
đ°
swift dragon
sun king and SLG up there too
quiet valley
Are you satan?
swift dragon
maybe
quiet valley
First player to like SLG
swift dragon
id let lil nas x hit any time of the week
SLG>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>sludge
im a monk
quiet valley
But yeah u are monk, i guess fun to top meters
swift dragon
SLG is the only fight where i get to do damage
and i can go do obrs in 3 seconds so thats fun
quiet valley
I liked sludge a lot, was a tight and fun progress
swift dragon
hated that shit in progres and still hate it
by far my least favourite fight in the whole game
its steaming ass garbo
quiet valley
Thats how i feel about council
swift dragon
council is second worst fight in raid imo
halcyon zealot
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
halcyon zealot
i usually take a bit from a bunch of diff WAs
i tried installing/using atrocitys UI yesterday which resulted in me fully uninstalling the game
s
swift dragon
also doesnt look awful and is pretty compact
halcyon zealot
so this morning im trying to get my old shit back
halcyon zealot
well, its preference
frail fossil
xymox is best fight in the raid imo
u cappin
frail fossil
xymox is either u stand still and dps or u have all the mechanic at once and u have 10% uptime on the boss
frail fossil
ruby birch
Actual masochist
swift dragon
ive never had those issue on xymox
frail fossil
as i monk i can understand u liked slg if u never had to hold dps
ruby birch
You're one lucky fucker
swift dragon
Actual masochist
separate issue
frail fossil
since monk just do infinite dmg on slg
but man xymox ? might aswell say my fav fight is shriekwing
swift dragon
the worst i ever had was overlapping pull and beams
ruby birch
I love sub on huntsman 
frail fossil
best boss of the raid hungering destroyer imo
swift dragon
Sunking and SLG are the 2 fights i get to do damage
hunstman and innerva are ok too
frail fossil
sire ?
swift dragon
denny p1/p2 is nut
although dhs fuckingdominate that
we stand in a conga line so our dh can eyebeam into fel rush and delete the adds
arctic cloud
swapping covs is so residentsleeper
swift dragon
its kinda dumb how fast he kills them
ruby birch
It's cuz of UBC being what it was supposed to be
frail fossil
swapping covs is so residentsleeper
ruby birch
Blizz "fixed" its bugginess and then nerfed it by 300% 
frail fossil
i'm about to grind the last 2 cov i need to 40
ruby birch
Now they buffed it back up
frail fossil
tons of fun my dudde
arctic cloud
im 40 with venth and necro but i started the NF quests, so im kinda stuck for 2 weeks
which btw im 0 renown :)))
frail fossil
and then i have to go NF 
swift dragon
halcyon zealot
kyrians my last after necro
frail fossil
i hate nf man