assassination

[stoic needle]

but yea fatal flaw seems kinda nutty

[gray fjord]

Yeah was just hopping between all the covenant alts I have on the PTR

[limber lion]

Nadja's last ablity looks sick as well

Fatal Flaw is sooo nutty

20% of crit? Don't mind if I do

[gray fjord]

Rogues will never be allowed to PvP again apparently, Master Assassin RIP

Rogue
Mark of the Master Assassin (Runecarving Power) duration has been reduced by 40% in PvP combat.

Not that I PvP, but like, wth 2.2 seconds of crit? lmao

[stoic needle]

but also the extra potency slots

niceee

[hollow escarp]

Pvp

[torpid spoke]

ROFL

[gray fjord]

Jeeze

[hollow escarp]

Wait what?

[frail escarp]

Do you use all 3 stacks of serrated on cool down ?

[wise gull]

well that's kinda goooooood

[balmy condor]

on single target you use 1 to get the dot up, and then during gemstone from heirmir, spread out for LBE, or just whenever otherwise

[torpid spoke]

to the moon with sin rogue

[gray fjord]

Ah jeeze why is it so big

[limber lion]

[stoic needle]

wtf

12% agility???

[gray fjord]

Pelagos XDD

Yeah, idk

My kyrian on Ptr has 0 renown so I can't test it

[teal bloom]

Kyrian bis Poggers

[wise gull]

don't make me grind renown again please blizzard

[gray fjord]

I literally just finished Necro this week

[fleet anchor]

The Heirmir changes are really good

[torpid spoke]

venythr is still

[limber swallow]

that sounds like a worse version of Theotar's umbrella.. Better effect, but worse to use

[fleet anchor]

Necro looks quite strong

[torpid spoke]

bis i think

[fleet anchor]

Heirmir is one of the only ones that somehow got 2 DPS passives from the new rows lol

[wise gull]

There's no weird shenanigans with not being able to enter raid instances after a server & faction change, right?

[gray fjord]

Yeah the Carver eye one sounds nuts. That's like 750 mastery on every trash pull

Necro Sub?

[fleet anchor]

Basically Heirmir getting a 3% execute and a big opener buff

[limber lion]

Yeah Heirmir is a weird one

[balmy condor]

you're still locked to your mythic lockout and obviously cannot loot bosses you've already killed, but yeah

[uneven plume]

Necro is looking disgusting for both sin and outlaw

[limber lion]

Not sure what the numbers will translate to

[fleet anchor]

Anyway my is not upset with Necro based on what I'm seeing 😛

[stoic needle]

your mythic lockout is forfeit if you transfer in the middle of it

[wise gull]

kk, that's what i figured. just wanted to make sure there wasn't some weird "you cant enter an instance for 24 hours" shit

[stoic needle]

happened to me last week

no like you literally cant zone into mythic

not just no loot

[fleet anchor]

Although I think Hiermir just looks waaaay better than Emeni now

[polar cape]

is the bonespike runecarve out yet?

[teal bloom]

Hopefully Nightfae isn't worst :(

[uneven plume]

Mnemonic equipment with outlaw is nuts

[fleet anchor]

Niya buff is basically just a 50% buff to Grove Invigoration in raids/dungeons

Which is pretty solid

[torpid spoke]

i know this is a rogue channel

but

holy fuck

Venthyr: Condemn extends the duration of Last Stand by 4 sec, Colossus Smash by 1.5 sec, Recklessness by 3 sec.

what the fuck

[fleet anchor]

Is that a legendary?

[shy dust]

yes

[fleet anchor]

Right

[wise gull]

should be fine if i'm not locked to mythic though, no? it's a fresh week

[balmy condor]

#wow-general

[fleet anchor]

Yeah I think only the chosen classes get those atm 😄

[balmy condor]

sin channel pl0x

[stoic needle]

yeah if you aren't locked yet you'll be fine

[fleet anchor]

"Death Knight, Druid, Warrior and Mage have new powers available in this PTR build."

e.g. "classes with devs"

😄

[wise gull]

cool cool, we good then

[fleet anchor]

But yeah looking solid so far

But we'll see what the datamining shows

[uneven plume]

They are punishing wizards this ptr so far lmaooo

[fleet anchor]

Hard to say, the patch notes seem quite incomplete

[uneven plume]

From what we have so far

[fleet anchor]

The new PvP talent seems pretty stonks for Assassination

[gray fjord]

Rogue

The shield from Cloaked in Shadows (Conduit) is now 50% larger, lasts for 4 seconds (previously had no duration) and no longer decays while the Rogue is out of stealth.

Dayum xD

[uneven plume]

Necro sin with that is pretty nasty

[stoic needle]

yeah giving sin a MS is nice

makes us even more like sneaky warriors

especially if that stacks with wound poison

[uneven plume]

We’re replacing that with system shock I assume

[fleet anchor]

I mean if that stacks with Master Poisoner Wound Poison.. that's a metric ton of healing reduction

But I'm a little worried about the Covenant-specific legendaries

Seems like yet another crazy variable

[balmy condor]

yeah

[fleet anchor]

That will make it literally impossible to balance Covenants

[heavy skiff]

wait i didnt see this

[fleet anchor]

Only a few specs have them so far

[balmy condor]

I'm already in pain thinking about how I'm going to present info in the pins tbh

I'll have to do covenant specific legendary sims

[copper hazel]

google sheet

[balmy condor]

[heavy skiff]

do we have one already?

[fleet anchor]

No

[balmy condor]

I think all the theorycrafters have google sheets, I'm talking about the pins in the channel

[fleet anchor]

Unless they let us use two legendaries I don't really see how they play in without just being OP outlier, you know?

Like they'll either be useless

Or op

I have a hard time seeing much middle ground here

[copper hazel]

yeh just going to have to link to one to present it all

its just not going to fit in a pin 😄

[balmy condor]

the point is not doing that

[stoic needle]

blizzard making sidegrades sounds unlikely

[copper hazel]

best of luck then lol

i trust

in the whisp

[balmy condor]

I'm just waiting for more patch notes tbh

the next week or two is just handling the surge of "GUYS THE PTR THEY DID IT HAS BUT THE NUMBER HAVE YOU SEEN DID YOU KNOW BUT ITS NOT BUT THE PTR AND THE NOTES AND THE PTR AND NEW STUFF"

[limber lion]

I'm hyped now, but it's still 3 more months of pain

[fleet anchor]

I mean the raid trinkets don't even have effects yet

They have a long way to go with this PTR

[limber lion]

They do

[prisma crescent]

!opener

[limber lion]

It's the yellow text

[limber lion]

You can refer to !guide

[gray fjord]

But Whyspir, that's what they said and it was good on the notes but now it isn't!

[limber lion]

Here, I'll help you out

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[fleet anchor]

Do they actually work? Or is that just the design?

[balmy condor]

that's the design

[limber lion]

Yeah, probably don't work

There's no numbers whatsoever now that you mention it

[fleet anchor]

So yeah, that's kinda what I mean. They have a lot of implementation work still to do, legenadaries, trinkets, etc.. still have quite a ways

[teal bloom]

What if that's new iqd Pog

[limber lion]

Yeah that's true, sorry misinterpreted

:p

eu brain

[fleet anchor]

Oh I guess this also answers the ilevel gap question

Didn't even think about that

[limber lion]

I can't wait to get to play Sin in the new raid.

[fleet anchor]

They are still doing +7 ilevel on last two bosses again

[limber lion]

Yeah, Mythic items are 252 and last 2 are 259

Ye

[vital haven]

only daggers on the last 2 bosses

[uneven plume]

And the last two items will of course

[vital haven]

no outlaw weaps

[uneven plume]

Be rogues

For

Lmfaoooo

[fleet anchor]

26 ilevel gap is.. kinda a lot lol

That's like 2 traditional tiers worth of ilevel

Our numbers gonna be so yuge by the end of the xpac

[compact pumice]

The shield from Cloaked in Shadows (Conduit) is now 50% larger, lasts for 4 seconds (previously had no duration) and no longer decays while the Rogue is out of stealth.
Shit 😦

[limber lion]

Yeh, some people were thinking that 9.2 is the last patch

[maiden shoal]

guys best legg for sin?

[limber lion]

Just basing off of how the Sylvanas fight plays out

[balmy condor]

check the pins

[limber lion]

And how the numbers look.

[vital haven]

no way

[maiden shoal]

oh right thanks

[heavy skiff]

if they keep releasing content at this pace... i dont think we are gonna be that huge xD

[gloomy knoll]

sylvanus drops a dagger

are they not doing tokens again o.O?

[vital haven]

they are gonna wod shadowlands

[brittle pawn]

guys no rogue buffs on ptr, pls explain

[limber lion]

They probably forgot the token things

And will implement them

I don't see a world where we have a dagger from the last boss but no 1h.

[fleet anchor]

Well like, ilevel is compounding DPS increases so...

[gloomy knoll]

she doesn't drop a weapon

for every spec

but she do drop a dagger

also

[fleet anchor]

Basically our gear baseline should be going up to like 9-10k

[gloomy knoll]

TONS of crit haste gear

in the loot table rn

[balmy condor]

idk why I have to say this every 5 minutes but #wow-general is below this channel

[fleet anchor]

Plus the new Conduits/Soulbinds

[uneven plume]

I really wanna try necro soulbinds

They look promising

[fleet anchor]

I'm talking about Assassination DPS numbers, that counts Whispyr 😄

[gloomy knoll]

nadjia soulbinds look pog for sin

[uneven plume]

For both specs

[fleet anchor]

As if Sub will do 9-10k

😄

[gloomy knoll]

yea im talking about gear in relation to sin

[limber lion]

Yeh, it's gonna be interesting to see how everything plays out for Assa

[gloomy knoll]

sub / sin gearing looks really good

[fleet anchor]

At least there appears to be a dagger quite early in the tier

But no tokens

Makes me

[gloomy knoll]

yea 4th boss

[fleet anchor]

Very sad

[balmy condor]

[fleet anchor]

Lack of tokens is just awful for Dagger specs

[limber lion]

I don't see them ditching the token thing.

Probably just an "oopsie" from Blizzard.

[fleet anchor]

Maybe...

We'll see

[limber lion]

Hopefully

[gloomy knoll]

yea prob not implemented yet

no talent changes from what i can see for sin

or leggos in our table

[fleet anchor]

Otherwise we only get daggers from 2 bosses.. but one is higher ilevel off the last boss

Then Outlaw gets 3 weapons but none higher ilevel?

wut?

[gloomy knoll]

yep

[fleet anchor]

I don't understand

[gloomy knoll]

nyalotha

2.0

[fleet anchor]

tokens. plz

[limber lion]

I'll admit it. I checked the talents the first thing when I jumped in to ptr, and hovered my mouse over Exsang first

Sadly

Nothing.

[fleet anchor]

I haven't noticed any talent changes no

[gloomy knoll]

sin looking strong so far

tbh

everything looking good for it

[limber lion]

Where's all of the sweet borrowed power

Where's shrouded suffo

[gloomy knoll]

now just gotta see covenant leggos

[limber lion]

:''(

[fleet anchor]

I need to look into what was being mentioned earlier about differences in tooltips, but could be something else entirely

Until we have a data dump fully

[limber lion]

Yeah, not really worth it looking at the numbers atm tbh

[dense axle]

why not? Rupt got a pretty big nerf for Sin

[balmy condor]

bro

can you stop

with the random doomsaying

[dense axle]

I think Sin will still be pretty strong

but theyve definitely tuned the different spells we have

not doomsaying

[balmy condor]

there's actually 0 reason to talk about numbers atm

[fleet anchor]

My Rupture tooltip

Is literally identical on PTR vs. live

[dense axle]

not mine!

[fleet anchor]

🙂

[balmy condor]

LMAOOOOOOOOOO

^^^

[limber lion]

[fleet anchor]

8244 on both PTR and live

[dense axle]

you have DS?

[fleet anchor]

Yes

[dense axle]

let me relog see if it updated

[fleet anchor]

Currently all my damage tooltips are identical

[balmy condor]

yo my sides

[gloomy knoll]

my rupture says 5,980

for 6

THE END IS NIGH BROTHERS

[dense axle]

yep, updated

ok cool, just a bug then

[gloomy knoll]

[balmy condor]

guys nerfs

[limber lion]

but the numbers mason

what do they mean?

[fleet anchor]

Means I have nothing to do on PTR branch since like.. there are no Rogue changes 👌

[balmy condor]

ez

[fleet anchor]

I sleep now

[gloomy knoll]

sim soulbinds

duh

need to know which is better

[limber lion]

Nightnight Koji

[gloomy knoll]

new necro or venth

day one

[limber lion]

[gloomy knoll]

right now

[stoic needle]

yes

[ionic kelp]

necro looking strong especially when u have sbs for mt fights which seem to look like a majority of?

[gloomy knoll]

wait

[stoic needle]

is it just me or does theotar's final trait look like trash

you get it once per day for 1 hour

????

[fleet anchor]

So far basically every new trait design seems to be like

"Last soulbind gets some cool shit"

[strange python]

Ye

[fleet anchor]

"Useless PvP soulbind gets +2-3% passive damage"

"The one everyone used initially but doesn't use much more now gets jack shit"

[stoic needle]

draven still trash

[torpid spoke]

cept fatal flaw

that shit

is nuts

[balmy condor]

draven is trash, but this is curious

[fleet anchor]

I mean the other ones are good for tanks I'm sure

Just from a DPS perspective lol

[limber lion]

Healing logs

[dense axle]

can someone with necro on PTR double check how much Sudden Fractures % chance is once it's equipped?

[balmy condor]

wild stab in the dark gonna say the same as live

[ebon bramble]

Fatal Flaw When the Haste effect of Euphoria ends, gain 10 sec sec of either 20% increased critical strike chance or Versatility, whichever you currently have more of.

this is going to be fun

[stoic needle]

i think he means when it's enhanced

[ebon bramble]

20% crit ❤️

[balmy condor]

are enhancements working?

[limber lion]

I'm actually kind of surprised that we don't see any major borrowed power being introduced.

[stoic needle]

they are

[limber lion]

Ye

[balmy condor]

wow that's very not like blizzard

[limber lion]

226 Lashing is 90%

Kinda nutty

[copper hazel]

theres still time for that im sure

[ebon bramble]

what? so 1 hour in raid? XD

[dense axle]

@balmy condor again, this is why im checking with someone else . Mine appears different

[fleet anchor]

It's 48% chance for my 200 ilevel Sudden Fractures on PTR, which is higher than it should be (same as tier 7)

[stoic needle]

16% maim/mangle

[fleet anchor]

Could just be a tooltip problem

showing the wrong rank

[dense axle]

on PTR mine says 51%, is that 226 version?

[stoic needle]

yeah this seems trash

[fleet anchor]

I think it's just showing the 226 values

[dense axle]

that seems right

[limber lion]

Imagine trusting tooltips

[fleet anchor]

Also they had a conduit vendor here a moment ago and now it's gone.. rip

[balmy condor]

I still have no idea how much damage flayedwing does

[limber lion]

I don't think anyone does

[dense axle]

im glad I get to wear 2 DPS conduits AND have Heirmir's gemstone now

thats a good increase

[balmy condor]

yeh katar in m+

[stoic needle]

yeah necro stonks are up

[balmy condor]

does the empowerment on katar increase the crit as well

well

I guess the tooltips are fucked

[stoic needle]

no

[balmy condor]

so who fucking knows

lmao

[stoic needle]

it's still 5%

[balmy condor]

smh blizz

[dense axle]

it says 5%

[limber lion]

The enhancements basically only increase the level of the conduit

Nothing special

Or interesting

Lashing still 4 lashes, WPS still the same old, CtO still busted

Nothing new.

[balmy condor]

I see

well that's probably why it's implemented

the's literally just number is now bigger number

[fleet anchor]

One dagger in Tazavesh

3 Outlaw weapons

smh

[limber lion]

When the gates opened up, it looked like there's a lot of new stuff

But now that it's cooled down

There isn't really

that much

[stoic needle]

god dammit these empowered conduits should be azerite traits

where is my shrouded suff

[limber lion]

I mean, we still haven't seen the new zone so that could be something else

As long as Assa performs well in raids, I'm happy.

[dense axle]

where do you see empowered conduits?

[wary ice]

is there a recomended iqd wa?

[limber lion]

Just use the one with the most downloads

It works perfectly fine.

[limber lion]

In your soulbind tree?

All of the slots are empowered currently.

[gray fjord]

Empowered conduits just seem to be slightly higher % gains right now, so if you look on your soulbind tree they should be updated on PTR

Kinda lame and hopefully not the only thing they do with it, since they made it sound way more impactful than that when they discussed it a while ago.

[dense axle]

ahh, thats probably the % change I saw earlier

[limber lion]

Yeh

[dense axle]

I dont see any visual identification other than maybe a thicker gold outline?

[limber lion]

They are very boring

[gray fjord]

Yeah that's basically it

[limber lion]

I was hoping to see some new effects tied to the old ones.

[dense axle]

lol wow

[gray fjord]

And it says Enhanced in blue letters when you hover over the slot

[dense axle]

so 6% more crit on SBS. Thats rather lame

[gray fjord]

Yeah that's what they said they were going to do, hopefully this is just a placeholder or something.

[dense axle]

passive increase to a passive effect

womp womp

[gray fjord]

[limber lion]

Fingers crossed

[gray fjord]

I was hoping more like the crucible from Legion, where it unlocked an extra effect. (Maybe not the silly huge tree of effects they had, but something slightly more than just % gains)

[limber lion]

I actually liked Netherlight Crucible

[dense axle]

I wonder if Mnemonic Equipment counts as a bleed for Doomblade lol

[limber lion]

So many people complained about it

But I enjoyed it

[dense axle]

doesnt say bleed

but wouldnt that be fun interaction :P

[balmy condor]

not really

[gray fjord]

It was a good system, but it'd feel really bloated I think in the soulbind tree. In Legion it was a bit more in-line with the idea of relics or whatever they were called, since it basically just let you get the effect of other relics and you could choose one of two choices or something like that.

[limber lion]

I'm hoping to see some legendary tuning as well

Would love to try other legendaries and not just stick to the same stuff

[limber lion]

Yeh agree.

It's a toughie

But this is an early build, everything is messed up. The effects, items, conduits, mechanics, numbers etc.

Should take everything with a grain of salt.

[gray fjord]

Oh absolutely, it could very well just be a place-holder since it is probably a low priority for them compared to the bigger changes being made.

[stoic needle]

we all know that the covenant specific legendaries are gonna be bis

there's your 'tuning' :p

[limber lion]

"Your combo generating abilities now also lash the target and Flagellation's haste cap is increased to 50%"

[low girder]

i don't think i want to know what the covenant legendary will do to convoke

[limber lion]

[gray fjord]

The only solace I have with Convoke is knowing it will be gone in about a year and a half. -_-

[low girder]

true

[uneven plume]

When do we refresh garrote and rupture again?

As MA talent

[stoic needle]

in pandemic

[limber lion]

Your talent choice doesn't really change when you refresh garrotes/ruptures outside of Vanish windows.

[cerulean nest]

anything noteworthy on ptr?

rogue wise

[limber lion]

Not really.

[low girder]

not really. nice QoL buff to the cloaked in shadows conduit

still wouldn't run it in pve though

[stoic needle]

i think its nerfed actually

for pvp

[limber lion]

It's a massive nerf.

[low girder]

what, how

did i misread it

oh, 4s duration

nvm

unlucky

[limber lion]

We're raiders here

[stoic needle]

rogues getting pvp nerfs while most classes stay untouched is just odd

[limber lion]

Who cares

[stoic needle]

i care

[limber lion]

[low girder]

nah fire got kinda blasted

no klepto

[limber lion]

Rogues get nerfed in PvP, but all the other classes got nerfs on their base kit.

[low girder]

no dampen

[stoic needle]

i am extremely happy about fire and boomkin nerfs

[low girder]

these are huge

[stoic needle]

Also interesting that shadowpriests didnt get any changes

If they don't that means sin is safe

[strange python]

I don't think sin was liable to get nerfs. Its single target damage is offset by bringing no utility and no aoe.

If anything I'm surprised rogues didn't get a utility buff or that AMZ didn't get a nerf

[dawn ivy]

226 phial the day 9.1 ptr drops

[balmy condor]

you'll get to use it for the next 2 months

don't worry bout it

[strange python]

Or even 3 at this rate lol

[dawn ivy]

i screamed like a girl and didnt even look at my other options

[pliant apex]

My RL said I’ll have to do seeds on mythic artificer , is that something a rogue needs to do?

[dawn ivy]

just snagged the trinket. i think there was a weapon

[ruby birch]

hi guys im one of you now

[balmy condor]

they can, yeh

[ruby birch]

here wait one sec

[pliant apex]

Coz I haven’t done that on heroic even and that scares me

[strange python]

Others can do it better but rogues are a fine option for this.

[pliant apex]

Is it hard

[balmy condor]

you click the seed and run through the portal

[strange python]

It's very easy, you'll pick it up fast if you pay attention

[balmy condor]

and then press your button

[ruby birch]

@balmy condor how do i remove this horrible blue colour

[balmy condor]

and then run through the portal

[minor anchor]

first two seeds are easy, 3rd and 4th seed can be tricky

[ionic kelp]

ya but it makes more sense for ranged to it

[balmy condor]

!subtlety in bot spam

[stoic needle]

If you're going to die carrying seeds, cloak

[minor anchor]

but cloak should give you a get out of jail card

[ruby birch]

ok

ty

[stoic needle]

You can soulshape with the seed

[minor anchor]

the melee seed should be done by a rogue or DK

[stoic needle]

Very poggers

[ruby birch]

Hello everyone I am now assassination rogue

[thorny rose]

lmfao welcome

[pliant apex]

Fuck it’s too much pressure

[limber lion]

Maybe you should change your name to Exsang Enthusiast instead

[thorny rose]

Doomblade Enthusiast when

[pliant apex]

Is there a video I can watch of a rogue doing it

[ionic kelp]

just wipe your raid team a couple of times in a row. that way you either get benched or you dont have to do seeds

[ruby birch]

ill have to look through sin and find some horrible talent to root for

exsang sounds good

[balmy condor]

Venom Rush Enthusiast

[dawn ivy]

master poisoner chad

[low girder]

Hidden Blades Enthusiast

[stoic needle]

Exsang is the best

It's the worst talent in our whole tree

[ruby birch]

i actually have a meme build for exsang

...

[balmy condor]

I think it might be better than venom rush

[stoic needle]

But venom rush sims higher?

[dawn ivy]

exsang at least makes us play a different way, so its got that going for it

[balmy condor]

oh wait true

I was thinking backwards

lmao

yes

exsang is the worst talent we have

[thorny pond]

Too bad it doesn't stack SBS ticks infinitely

[ruby birch]

ill have to disagree

[balmy condor]

it did on 9.0.5 ptr for about 3 days

[limber lion]

[balmy condor]

and it was crazy broken

[stoic needle]

Like crashing the servers broken

[thorny pond]

Give it back

[balmy condor]

yeh

[stoic needle]

[balmy condor]

like it actually crashed servers

[low girder]

sire already crashes half our pcs

fuck it go all the way

[thorny pond]

That can be our utility is free repair costs since we'll all be back in oribos

[ruby birch]

there, now it's proper

[daring brook]

doo you guys garrote on cooldown

[limber lion]

Good man

[balmy condor]

no, just to refresh

[daring brook]

kk

in pandemic for it as well as rupture right?

does it work where it refreshes in pandemic to gain additional time on the dot?

[balmy condor]

yeah anytime in pandemic for all our maint

[daring brook]

cool

[vagrant bison]

I got a IQD from dos. Is it better than the battery?

[balmy condor]

much

[limber lion]

A lot.

[balmy condor]

battery is trash

[vagrant bison]

yeah thats one thing that everyone agrees on this discord 😂

[stoic needle]

I hate that you have a 226 iqd

[vagrant bison]

but people are saying that IQD is too unreliable to use properly

its only a 220

😛

[stoic needle]

They are wrong

You install a weakaura

And you can know what it will do

[viral vigil]

How’s the PTR changes looking?

[stoic needle]

It will almost always give you stats on pulll, and is guaranteed to give stats in lust and has +5sec duration

[balmy condor]

we don't have any

[viral vigil]

Helya

[fierce eagle]

do you guys think for a gearing sin rogue (202 ilvl atm) i should take a 226 flayedwing toxin or a 216 deaths god signet?

[limber lion]

I think you should sim it

[vital haven]

how can you guarantee crit on iqd

[limber lion]

By having it as your highest secondary stat during lust.

[balmy condor]

^

[shy dust]

its funny

that vantus effects your actual rating

if i use vantus i get crit/vers iqd

[limber lion]

[prisma crescent]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[stoic needle]

procs affect it too

thrill seeker or soothing shade give me haste or mastery

hmm well i guess thrill seeker might not cuz its %

[limber lion]

Yeah and food buff

Learned that the hard way as well.

[prisma crescent]

With MA...is this correct?

[balmy condor]

yep looks good

would be 5 with Deeper

on #10/14

[prisma crescent]

👍

[limber lion]

You could also use Shiv right after the Sepsis

But small stuff.

[daring brook]

wait this is for if you're starting in stealth?

[balmy condor]

no, he cropped it

from #8

[daring brook]

When using Master Assassin Icon Master Assassin:

Start from Stealth Icon Stealth.
Cast Mutilate Icon Mutilate.
Apply Slice and Dice Icon Slice and Dice.
Cast Mutilate Icon Mutilate.
Apply Garrote Icon Garrote.
Use your Covenant ability if you are Venthyr or Necrolord.
Use Rupture Icon Rupture.
Activate Vendetta Icon Vendetta.
Use your Covenant ability if you are Kyrian or Night Fae, otherwise open with Mutilate Icon Mutilate.
Cast Mutilate Icon Mutilate until 4+ CP.
Cast Shiv Icon Shiv
Activate Vanish Icon Vanish.
Cast Envenom Icon Envenom.
Cast Mutilate Icon Mutilate until 4+CP.
Cast Envenom Icon Envenom.
Continue with normal priority.

[balmy condor]

[prisma crescent]

[balmy condor]

that's why screenshots exist

[daring brook]

stealth icon stealth

icon garrote

lmao

[balmy condor]

yeah

[gusty mirage]

I blame icy veins for using alt codes that copy over

[balmy condor]

copying embed images

is uh

kinda cringe

[strange python]

[gusty mirage]

[strange python]

also we get dble potency for nadija dauntless duelist path too pog

well i kinda worded that wrong....extra potency no matter which path u take

[gray fjord]

Yeah all the new pathes guarantee an extra potency since it's at a single point which is nice

[placid cobalt]

how does new nadja compare to new bonesmith stuff? still undecided wether to go venthir or necro

[gray fjord]

Lots of extra defensives too which is always good

Very much up in the air

[uneven plume]

New bone dude stuff lookin like the mvp

[gray fjord]

No sims yet, and Nadjia proc is on a 1.5 minute CD

^ Also that

Heirmir is looking pretty solid right now

[uneven plume]

But I’m sure rogues soulbind choices are all gonna be very equal

[gray fjord]

Even Pelagos has a (potentially?) amazing choice with like a 12% agi and stam buff proc

[uneven plume]

I’m just thinking more boomies are gonna switch from NF

[placid cobalt]

like im NF atm and i was pretty set on necro, however after seeing that nadja stuff idk....

[uneven plume]

So it’ll shake up the meta

I’m 9.1

Prob gonna need more NF rogues

[limber lion]

!sims

[prisma monolith]

Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html

[umbral slate]

Moving to play assassination from my hunter and there's so much more to do in M+ it's a pleasant change 😅

[stoic needle]

Sin in keys is comfy imo

[frail fossil]

council would be a zoldyck fight ye ?

zoldyck/CT

[limber lion]

I would probably just run DB with CT or PB.

But I've never killed the boss, so you shouldn't trust me

[frail fossil]

i mean on council i would simply not play assa tbf

[strange python]

well most of ur dmg on logs come from the bosses when they die

[daring plover]

only ct waiters

[strange python]

only time ur getting pad dmg is from adds during nick

[frail fossil]

i mean it's more if u play zoldyck

CT gets better

even in ST

and since u can CT waiters

[daring plover]

me lazy typer

[limber lion]

CT is already decent and is better than Envenom in ST

[daring plover]

i mean only ct if u wanna pad waiters

[heavy trail]

you guys think zoldyx will stil be good going forward ? going to make my next lego soon

[limber lion]

Depends on what content you do

[balmy condor]

yes

[limber lion]

But generally it's a pretty good lege overall

For M+ and AoE situations in particular

[frail fossil]

i mean idk weird to me no one seems to play zoldyck on council in wcl

[limber lion]

Ye

[frail fossil]

since u have like 3 execute phase

[limber lion]

But Flower

[frail fossil]

r1 is zoldyck tho

[limber lion]

Flower

[balmy condor]

oh no

[limber lion]

3 execute phases is still the same amount of execute

[balmy condor]

oh no no no

[thorny rose]

oh here we go again

[balmy condor]

not this shit again

lmao

[frail fossil]

did i say something stupid mr whispyr

[limber lion]

Yes.

[frail fossil]

[balmy condor]

incredibly

[shy dust]

Dude

Come on flower

[thorny rose]

30 + 30 + 30 / 300

[shy dust]

Do you understand math

[frail fossil]

no

[thorny rose]

or whateva

[balmy condor]

@frail fossil would you rather have 3 execute phases of 1 min each, or 1 execute phase of 3 minutes

[limber lion]

You summoned a bunch of people for a roasting session.

[frail fossil]

fml bro it's too late for this shit come back to roast me later

[limber lion]

Ye wtf it's 3am

I was tired as fuck at 10pm

why am I up

[gray fjord]

Because 9.1 notes came out

[limber lion]

That's true :p

[gray fjord]

Ew evil giant emoji. 😛

[bright elk]

Notes!

[frail fossil]

hm i mean those are the same so that means zoldyck is as good as it is on any normal ST bosses, but also i dont think any st bosses have an execute phase of 3 min, at least not hungering/shriek/sludge are usually shorter than this, but i mean council execute might be shorter than 1min too idl

[balmy condor]

my dude

that's not the fucking point

[frail fossil]

Yeah i get it

[low girder]

you also don't play zoldyck on any of those

[frail fossil]

zoldyck is not much better in council than on any other fights

[limber lion]

It's a common misconception.

Not sure why

[balmy condor]

because math is super fucking hard

[frail fossil]

sorry for being an outlaw brain i shall go back to my cave

[gray fjord]

Zoldyck's value is based on importance of phase damage more than anything, I'd imagine.

[balmy condor]

well feelcraft wise, yeh

[gray fjord]

Hm

[shy dust]

Zoldyck is pretty shit on sludge now

[balmy condor]

sim wise it's just 30%

cause it's 30%

cause 30% of 100

is 30%

[low girder]

[frail fossil]

i mean zoldyck is not rly good on any fight except sire no ?

[balmy condor]

and you can make it 5 bosses

or 20

or 900000

[limber lion]

It's fine on SLG.

[balmy condor]

it's still 30% * Targets / Targets

[gray fjord]

I would say more for progression sake, at this point sheer throughput overvalues any importance of phase-specific damage due to how late into a tier we are.

[balmy condor]

which is just 30%

[shy dust]

basically ye

[frail fossil]

yeah i also didn't assumed u played assa in slg

[split veldt]

just let us wear two leggos, problem solveddddddddd

Sin is fun on SLG

and good, you need a strong ST machine

[low girder]

if we get 2 leggos rogue is fucked

[shy dust]

you do not

[low girder]

js

[shy dust]

need a st machine for slg

[frail fossil]

i think slg and fun just dont add up bro

[shy dust]

the bosses have such low health on slg

[split veldt]

lol my prog does

[frail fossil]

anyway idk might not even craft zoldyck and just recraft doomblade at this point

[split veldt]

we'll see what happens after this week, but our first 50 pulls last week we struggled a bit because everyone and their mother is aoeing, i shit on all of them for boss damage and the big third? i think it is, big add

[limber lion]

Recraft?

[split veldt]

zoldy is good, i have both

[frail fossil]

on hands

[limber lion]

Ah

[frail fossil]

not shoulder

if i get slg shoulder

[low girder]

thought you made

mastery/vers doomblade

for a second

[frail fossil]

[split veldt]

oof

[frail fossil]

why the fuck would i do that

[low girder]

idk

[frail fossil]

i mean i did it on shoulder so that's not out of question

[low girder]

maybe pvp

[keen tusk]

I crafted on Shoulders, too. I didn't have faith that RNG would give me SLG Shoulders

Then I got them in my Vault this week..

[gloomy knoll]

@balmy condor with zdicks do i fan on 2 or 3+?

[limber lion]

[balmy condor]

man

what is it with these outlaw brains today

one ptr build

and everyone just loses brain

[gloomy knoll]

que?

[balmy condor]

we fan on 4

regardless of anything

[gloomy knoll]

even without doom?

[thorny rose]

even on wednesdays?

[limber lion]

Why would Zoldyck's make it go down

[gloomy knoll]

doom makes mut do bleed

[balmy condor]

even when jupiter is in retrograde

[gloomy knoll]

zoldycks no make mute do bleed

[frail fossil]

do we fan on 5 if we play duskwalker ty mr whispyr

[balmy condor]

I'll beat your ass

[gloomy knoll]

bruv

[shy dust]

Whispyr

[limber lion]

okay I'm going to bed

Have fun Whispyr

[gloomy knoll]

i never played sin before

[limber lion]

[gloomy knoll]

how am i supposed to know lol

[shy dust]

does PI lower the effective cd of vendetta with dustwalkers

[balmy condor]

of course

[shy dust]

or is it just limited by the amount of energy you can spend in vendetta

[balmy condor]

we aren't energy limited anywhere except the first 5-6 seconds of lust/vend

[shy dust]

whats the advanced thing to sim with pi?

ill try to sim dustwalkers with pi

[balmy condor]

external_buffs.power_infusion=x I believe

where x is time in seconds

[limber lion]

ye

[shy dust]

ty

[limber lion]

multiple casts are x/y/z

[frail fossil]

anyway sorry mr whispyr i know learned zoldyck in council is not pog

[nimble tartan]

a valuable lesson learned

i learned many things in my first few minutes already this is why i value ravenholdt

learned when to fan and what legendary is not poggies on council

[supple pelican]

time to stay away from ptr notes

[limber walrus]

Do we know which legendaries will end up being the best combanation when we are able to equip 2?

[supple pelican]

[balmy condor]

[daring brook]

if this is the rotation
but i'm using marked for death
what changes
just mfd, slice dice before, then start at mutilate rupture?

[balmy condor]

you would mfd slice and then skip 3/4

[stoic needle]

[frail fossil]

dont kek me i'm sadge

[stoic needle]

It's ok bro

Whispyr made me craft my zoldyck as haste vers

[dawn ivy]

what a cruel dictator

[balmy condor]

yeah

I forced him

at gun point

[mossy topaz]

im considering switching to assa; planning on making crit/haste doomblade shoulder since i do m+ 95% of the time, is that right?

[balmy condor]

definitely not

doomblade is single target

[mossy topaz]

roast me daddy

[balmy condor]

if you're doing m+, craft a zold

or MA if you're multi-speccing

[mossy topaz]

i have haste/vers and crit/vers ma but id want a crit/haste one wouldnt i?

[balmy condor]

oh my god

that's so yikes

recrafting the same legendary

you've got twice as many MA's as you need already

please don't craft a 3rd

you hurt me

[mossy topaz]

zold it is

[peak jungle]

Outside of the addon Fuu linked, I take it there is still no one button macro for Ambush/Mutilate?

[dense axle]

Are you really running out of keybinds?

[peak jungle]

Nope, lazy

[dense axle]

That's fair

[peak jungle]

Also i'm a clicker, lol

[balmy condor]

there is not

[peak jungle]

Thanks

[dense axle]

Is there a macro with our entire rotation on a single button? I wanna RP arcane mage

[peak jungle]

Hell yeah

[stoic needle]

*sim point

Clicking

[peak jungle]

17 years clicking baby!

[dawn ivy]

i kinda wanna know who the highest rank pvp/raider/m+ that clicks

[peak jungle]

I'm 2400 and working on M generals

[dawn ivy]

its such a heavy limiter, it would interest me to see the upper bounds

[peak jungle]

stopped at KSM

[stoic needle]

Amazing

Do you click everything?

[peak jungle]

every single thing

[vocal charm]

Rip the rerolling to assassination dream, sorry boys 😦

The trial mage we had is gone so I’m the sole mage left

[dawn ivy]

sadge

[stoic needle]

Wdym mage is gonna be benched after 9.1

[vocal charm]

I also play frost which didn’t get touched

[stoic needle]

Chad

[dawn ivy]

frost might not have gotten touched but fire just got nerfed

[vocal charm]

The eternal struggle between the chad frost mages and virgin fire mages in the mage discord is relentless

[sharp zodiac]

What is the haste cap before we should focus on other stuff

[balmy condor]

pins

in big bold letters

[sharp zodiac]

Sorry

[balmy condor]

np

[sharp zodiac]

Was raiding and was asked didnt have time to look

[heavy trail]

Hmm make a 190 zolds or a 210 or wait to make a higher one in a week lol

[loud niche]

DID YOU SEE THE NEW STUFF, BUT WE GET NERFED IN TOOTLIP DPS DID YOU SEE FAM?

[wary pawn]

isnt rogue untouched?

[loud niche]

It's a joke

[wary pawn]

k i panicc'd

[balmy condor]

[loud niche]

the tooltips are showing off numbers, and a couple people have said the numbers are changed, but it's PTR and there are 0 notes about the changes, and we have MONTHS before we have to worry about it

[balmy condor]

also the people who said the tooltips are wrong

relogged

and the tooltips weren't wrong anymore

[faint harness]

its a sign of whats to come

be aware

be very scared

the doomsday

is coming

you can only avoid it by @balmy condor at least once every day asking about it

[balmy condor]

I'll randomize my name every 5 minutes for the next week

can't ping me if you can't type my name

[faint harness]

gottem

[dawn ivy]

!WA

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[neon stone]

does anyone has issues with ooze trinket?

not showing on details?

[hot helm]

whats the idea for bonespike? on pull, or use sometimes are builder?

[balmy condor]

well you use it very early on for the dot

and then you cast it as a super cheap efficient generator

ideally in gemstone

[misty holly]

Sylvanas Quiver is a crit/haste cloak. Some hunter is going to make you trade it to them when it drops, aren't they?

[dawn ivy]

if it has a higher ilvl than your current claok tell em to eat dog food

you have a quiver now 😛

[misty holly]

I wonder if quiver will proc off pistol shot.

It should

[dawn ivy]

haha prooooooobably not

[frosty iris]

My 2 is a macro for Mutilate on press or modifier with shift to ambush. Works for me.

[deft widget]

anyone know if exsang is worth running for sludgefist

[low girder]

no

[balmy condor]

exsang isn't worth running on anything anywhere

actually the worst talent on the entire tree

[versed mica]

is it worth delaying using fireblood (dark iron racial) to remove effects to get the boost in dps, or is it better to simply line it up with every ven?

[jade coral]

zoldycks for mythic sun king or naw?

[shy dust]

no zoldyck

unless you want more aoe

doom is better for shield dps

[jade coral]

kk

ty

[versed mica]

I ask because I'm swapping alliance to play with friends, and I can't decide which dwarf to pick

bloodmallet says dark iron really good for alliance, assuming it is bc it's 2 min line up

[upper mesa]

if i plan to play sin for sludgefist should i make doomblade?

[deft widget]

you should 100% make doomblade

[icy ember]

and you make the gloves for doomblade

[upper mesa]

fun...

when do you vendetta on that fight? start/2/4? or

[shy dust]

yes

vendetta a bit earlier than usual

[odd hazel]

would you recommend going draven for M+?

[balmy condor]

I would recommend not going draven

like anything else

[stoic needle]

draven is legit like the worst soulbind in the game for dps

[odd hazel]

ouch

[dawn ivy]

draven is centered more towards tanks i believe

[low girder]

especially after that overhealing node that's coming

[trim whale]

how much haste % to start running deeper strategem ?

[strange python]

i miss exsang

[cerulean nest]

finally hit 7k in sims lol

we made it

[versed mica]

lol I guess no one cares about dark iron racial cuz no one knows

[hollow venture]

I'd just keep it lined up unless there is a specific debuff you need to cleanse

And dark iron looks to be ahead in sims and I think they are cooler

[balmy condor]

what about dark iron racial?

[versed mica]

Was wondering if it was worth holding for bleed mechanics for the dps increase

[balmy condor]

oh

lmao

you'll be hard pressed to find any of those

very doubtful that you hold it ever

they stomped all the "bleed removal" stuff into the ground during beta when people were cheesing half the expansion

so now it clears like

maybe 3 things

[versed mica]

It still works in heroic, I have a friend who uses stormform to remove SLG and denathrius bleeds

[shy dust]

Not M slg

[versed mica]

Figures lol. I don't run mythic anyway, casual here

I only wanna get aotg and that's it, alrteady done

[shy dust]

Do what you do brother

[versed mica]

even so, I doubt forcing bleeds on yourself to increase dps is a good idea

[dim ravine]

If you plan on ever stepping into keys go nelf, free vanish is amazing

[sonic schooner]

Also for pvp, free resealth

[versed mica]

with the nerfs to cloaked in shadows coming, I'd rather have dwarf for dot removal

[formal cliff]

What do you guys play on a spiteful week?

Where you can't get the re-stealth

[stoic needle]

outlaw

[elder crest]

sorry if its an obv question but where are tags or pins for leveling talents?

[versed mica]

No, but in the wowhead rogue guide there's a levelling section

[stoic needle]

yeah

i'd advise against playing sin while leveling tbh

it feels the most incomplete of the 3 specs without its full set of talents

and rank 2s of abilities

[versed mica]

Yeah, it's outlaw or sub for me, sin is terrible levelling

[stoic needle]

like you don't get cttc until lvl 56

[elder crest]

so wowhead is a better use than Icy?

[stoic needle]

they're both fine

they both have leveling sections

well i thought IV did

[elder crest]

thanks!

[balmy condor]

There’s no real theorycrafting for leveling, since it’s not generally considered a part of the game that needs optimization, and it’s over in a couple days

[cunning needle]

play sub while levelling and use this talent tree

https://www.wowhead.com/talent-calc/rogue/subtlety/m2Wz/0/Zfy/zzYs

[elder crest]

Fair lol I'm just itching to start a build Assa is just so much fun

[cunning needle]

then swap to assi at 60

[balmy condor]

Yeh

Sin leveling is very painful

[cunning needle]

sub you just jump from pack to pack

and you can freely use dance

[elder crest]

Oh I'm doing fine leveling just optimizing for no reason

[balmy condor]

It’s still painful in early 60 tbh

[cunning needle]

Assi you will hold vendetta for the next mob when you really need it

and realise you havent popped it in half an hour

[elder crest]

wait I dont play any other spec are they better to level on?

yeah I do that

[cunning needle]

sub is much better for

1. bursting
2. sustain

[sonic schooner]

Sub is really comfy to level up. Lot of mobility in between mobs

[cunning needle]

in the levelling process

[elder crest]

hmmm

[cunning needle]

• having 2x shadowstep + shadowstrike 40 yd teleport

[elder crest]

oooo

[sonic schooner]

And no real energy problem after getting symbols

[cunning needle]

assi is sad levelling because you go in

and wait for half a year for them to bleed to death

[elder crest]

mine die so fast tho

[cunning needle]

you could do some triple garrote stuff but then you have no sustain

except vial on 20 sec cd

[elder crest]

all I do is pop procs and ambush like a spaz they all explode

[cunning needle]

hmmm

maybe they made assi better in the levelling process then

[elder crest]

I know if ambush doesn't proc its ugly tho

[cunning needle]

https://www.wowhead.com/talent-calc/rogue/assassination/m71z/0/ULz/UAb

you'd probably want this for levelling i think

maybe... MA

[elder crest]

hmm thank

[cunning needle]

but yeah highly recommend sub

until 60

then dont play sub ever

unless you enjoy being sad

actually doing WQ content sub is still better i think

[elder crest]

does sub need love?

[balmy condor]

a lot of love

it's not only numerically weak but the niches it had don't exist anymore and it frankly just don't really have a place atm

[cunning needle]

something something sub is competing for the bottom dps spot with survival hunters

[elder crest]

oooooooo

ouchies

[cunning needle]

nah it has a niche at 6-8 target sustain 😛

[balmy condor]

does it?

[cunning needle]

isnt shadowbomb or w/e the aoe ability capped at 8

instead of 6

[balmy condor]

yeh but sin exists

[stoic needle]

black powder is just bad tho

[cunning needle]

true

[stoic needle]

its damage isnt good

[balmy condor]

yeah

[cunning needle]

oh yeah black powder

[balmy condor]

sub can't cleave, and the aoe is honestly trash

[cunning needle]

cant even remember spell name since that long

[stoic needle]

guess i'm stinky again

[gusty mirage]

welcome home @stoic needle

[stoic needle]

[cunning needle]

NGL im sorta enjoying necrolord

and having a covt ability thats useful again

do miss the soulshape though

[sonic schooner]

I go sub for my daily maw farming. Otherwise sin raid/pvp and outlaw m+. Yep I love and enjoy our 3 specs in a way

[cunning needle]

yeah same, I do sub in torghast as well

MA stronk

[sonic schooner]

I do afk in torghast

[shy dust]

Biggest loss by far

[stoic needle]

i dont miss soulshape at all

[sonic schooner]

Just following the group making them think I'm playing

[shy dust]

You’re insane then

Soulshape was amazing this tier

[stoic needle]

but maybe thats because i actually used door of shadows

[shy dust]

Absolutely clutch

For slg

[sonic schooner]

I miss soulshape as heck, specially for pvp/rbgs

[stoic needle]

yeah well i never got to slg

and i stopped pvping

[cunning needle]

dw you will with your new guild right @stoic needle

or are you guys doing sire

[stoic needle]

maybe? people are still being monkeys and breaking chains on sludge

8%

[cunning needle]

how lmao

[stoic needle]

actually 5.3%

[cunning needle]

it was nerfed that you can fit a person in teh gap between chain

[stoic needle]

dude i dont even know

[cunning needle]

[sonic schooner]

Just cheat death chains 4head

[stoic needle]

oh i do

but if one melee dies thats a wipe

[ionic fox]

Progging Mythic sire, at what difference in time do i delay flag to line with ven?

[gloomy fern]

U only delay before p3

So u can ven+flag twice