What a shit ability
#assassination
balmy condor
stoic needle
At least the slime backpack from bubbleblood is fitting for sin
I don't have it yet
limber lion
strange python
fair, it's a mess, but for some reason I enjoy it, it has a potential skill cap increase that has to be taken into account, we don't really have many of those left aside from like "higher melee uptime"
balmy condor
Honestly it’s a miracle that the torghast ability that spreads the damage actually sort of works
strange python
plus although lashing etc is SO good for sin, imo SBS FEELS better on sin, having that cp gen when you need it for such low energy etc
but w/e
feelycraft'ish
stoic needle
Flag is a fun button but it's not quite as exciting after a while as it was to begin with
strange python
flag vs sbs reminds me a lot of kyrian healing pallies that don't want to switch to venthyr
limber lion
I still enjoy it.
strange python
losing rotational additions legit feels awks by comparison to gaining a cd
I mean, except for the fact that pallies that DON'T go venthyr are just objectively incorrect
but yeah
upbeat finch
I'm new to sin - is it normal to not use env? I feel like I never have time to use it because by the time I can, I need to refresh rup
this is low ilvl, just hit max
limber lion
I'm new to sin - is it normal to not use env? I feel like I never have time to u...
You should be able to hit Envenom quite often.
Rupture lasts around 30s when reapplied in pandemic
So you have pleeeenty of time to generate with Muti and finish with Env
upbeat finch
maybe in higher lvls, by the time I squeeze in one env, I have to use a low cp rupt
like 2-3
else it's going to fall off
strange python
Flag is a fun button but it's not quite as exciting after a while as it was to b...
Mood. At first it was a "whoa so much haste this is awesome!" then it transitioned into a "eh, I guess" sort of thing.
limber lion
Levels don't really matter
Or stats
Or covenant
Or legendary
The rotation is still very similar
stoic needle
This might be a dumb question but do you have your poisons applied and you're making sure to keep garotte up too?
fleet anchor
Deeper is pretty much identical to Vigor for Necrolord for M+ fwiw.
As painful as it may be lol
strange python
I guess a lot of people profess to the idea that having "decent" haste makes it FEEEEEEEEEL more "smooth" but realistically your rotation opportunities don't really change much if youre doing it corrctly
stoic needle
Yup
balmy condor
Deeper is pretty much identical to Vigor for Necrolord for M+ fwiw.
We never use deeper in m+
strange python
Having anything but vigor feels absolutely horrendous
balmy condor
I’m aware of what the sims say because I simmed it earlier
limber lion
MFD is fine honestly.
balmy condor
I’m just choosing ignorance
strange python
Ignorance is bliss.
fleet anchor
I mean Deeper is better for Necro for ST as well most of the time so it's easier to kinda just leave it be.
One less thing to change 😛
Funny thing is how interchangable Vigor and EP are
Like Vigor+EP and Deeper+Blindside are almost identical for me as Necro for ST
strange python
they're super close for me even as venthyr atm tbh
fleet anchor
Probably both of them will die at some point when we get higher haste at the end of the xpac
strange python
like there's a difference but not enough to make me get all hyperbolic about the gap
Better to have that than something like WW where they're pigeonholed into something for 4 years running.
limber lion
Like Vigor+EP and Deeper+Blindside are almost identical for me as Necro for ST
Wouldn't you want to play with EP/Vig then because it's much more fun to play with? And we like fun in here 
balmy condor
Ep deeper already sims higher for me in heroic ilvl gear for next tier
It’s happening
stoic needle
ep deeper
low girder
single target CT when
fleet anchor
I think probably Blindside+Deeper is more fun just because it's another button
limber lion
Yeh fair enough
fleet anchor
But yeah I don't really care
stoic needle
Exxxxxxxxtra low apm sin
balmy condor
Koji doesn’t care
limber lion
Yeh, I'm just a dps slut so I use whichever does the most dps
stoic needle
Ew
fleet anchor
limber lion
Huge
strange python
Keep DoTs up whack-a-mole at the end of the day 😄
this is how sin really makes me feel atm, liek the whole spec is kind of a "so long as you DO x/y the order barely matters, just DO it"
stoic needle
Me
balmy condor
Something something 10% of the time hit button something - koji
strange python
it kinda feels like "just don't waste cp, you good"
strange python
Low floor does open the opportunity for high ceiling in the future though.
stoic needle
I haven't been anywhere that wasn't shadowlands since I got engineering to use the mechanical AH
somber forge
boring spec for boring people 🙂
stoic needle
I want to play the slowest possible iteration of sin just for shits and giggles
balmy condor
Low floor does open the opportunity for high ceiling in the future though.
Sin hasn’t had a skill ceiling for like 6 expansions
fleet anchor
balmy condor
And before that, the game had no skill ceiling
stoic needle
boring spec for boring people 🙂
Who?
strange python
Not that it does 
fleet anchor
Just apply this logic to Assassination nowadays
limber lion
boring spec for boring people 🙂
no you
somber forge
gets em good
balmy condor
https://i.redd.it/yq4pknvp65131.jpg
fleet anchor
People were like "we like Classic"
And Blizzard was like "we gotchu fam"
And Assassination was stripped of all its energy regen
strange python
fucking lol
stoic needle
Imagine the malding if they made outlaw like classic combat
strange python
can't wait to go back to tbc classic just so I can experience the wonder that is "dont hit your finisher UNLESS you have AR active, your snd will drop bro"
fleet anchor
Classic Combat was more like Sub than Sub is
limber lion
I mean the base concept of Sin is pretty good, but it's just lacking some things and it's a bit of a clusterfuck
strange python
hey... don't talk about sub, you'll make me cry
fleet anchor
Combat Backstab Daggers was the go-to for a long time
somber hill
crimson tempest should just be a basleine aoe ability
balmy condor
Yeah but then what
fleet anchor
Sub was just the pointless Hemo "PvP" tree
strange python
shrouded suffocation should be in the talent tree
limber lion
Most of us agree that CT should be baseline, but that doesn't really change much
strange python
a lot of things should change about the talent tree
fleet anchor
CT baseline sure would solve a lot of problems with the spec though
strange python
Some iteration of vein rippers could get put into the tree as well.
limber lion
a lot of things should change about the talent tree
Tbh, I like our current talent tree.
strange python
sin is really good right now but the talents suck giant ion cannon balls
limber lion
We have a lot of options
strange python
how dare you
limber lion
And can change stuff around quite a bit
strange python
you take that back
limber lion
There's a few dead talents
somber forge
I've got a great idea actually, make blindside baseline and give it wod sub's sinister calling effect on bleeds
spec saved
fleet anchor
I mostly am against the whole "LOL BASE LINE" spam being an ex-Demon Hunter
limber lion
Like Exsang, Venom Rush and MP
somber hill
maybe make CT generate like energy when active on multiple targets or something
fleet anchor
Since Havoc players literally want like
limber lion
But everything else is perfectly fine
somber hill
so it actually feels useful beyond just dmg
fleet anchor
Every single talent basline
limber lion
Ye
mighty owl
alacrity baseline 
fleet anchor
But CT really should be baseline
limber lion
Lul
strange python
CT probably should be though yeah
stoic needle
maybe make CT generate like energy when active on multiple targets or something
All of that energy would be pretty much useless, we're already essentially energy capped with a few bleeds up
fleet anchor
I think it's something they addressed with Sub (for better or worse design-wise)
But not having an AoE finisher
Is just meh
somber hill
bring back more variations in dmg poison maybe?
stoic needle
We need an aoe energy dump, not more energy generation
strange python
it's not like CT is this gigantic mega talent that changes the world the moment you select it
Perhaps something like ferocious bite with druid that consumes excess energy?
it just makes shit feel more comprehensive
stoic needle
If ct's instant damage was increased on a target already dotted by CT, that would be something
fleet anchor
CT changes the world in terms of AoE viability though
Because it makes Assassination go from like
epic trash tier AoE
to fairly decent AoE
As a talent it's actually way too strong tbh
limber lion
Ye agree
strange python
but!....
YoU OnlY BRinG ROAg for ST!!!!!
limber lion
It does the job it's meant to do very, very well
Compared to PB which is garbage
And boring
And HB
Which is just
why
fleet anchor
Hidden Blades was like just their attempt to smooth over the Legiondary deletion stuff
edgy mango
If anything, Alacrity should be baseline in some form?
fleet anchor
Same with MA
limber lion
Yeah
I never understood why they added PB as a talent though
That made no sense to me
mighty owl
the problem with alacrity is it's way too strong to be just a talent
fleet anchor
But Hidden Blades was never really particularly good
somber forge
You do only bring rogue for ST, the class is just not designed to do aoe. No cooldowns that synergise with aoe, and aoe finishers with no cooldown don't make for a class that can do burst aoe which is the dominant form of raid aoe.
limber lion
It was the most ridiculous thing in Legion and everyone hated it
So Blizz decides to add it in the game as a talent
But a really bad one.
At least it's not truly random, so you're guaranteed to proc it
So it's just constant damage on longer fights
But still, it's just so boring.
fleet anchor
The problem with Hidden Blades is that it just doesn't do enough
Could potentially work
But needs some tuning
FoK is too weak atm
limber lion
For sure
strange python
hot take: Legion FoK sin should be a thing
fleet anchor
FoK mostly relies on pure poison damage
limber lion
hot take: Legion FoK sin should be a thing
fleet anchor
The damage increase on the physical part is kinda too small to care about
limber lion
I don't think using FoK as a ST generator was a good thing.
strange python
hey, my logs loved it
idkwym
I thought you were a "dps slut"
how dare you backpeddle like this!?
limber lion
The damage increase on the physical part is kinda too small to care about
Yeah. There's a lot of cool stuff that Blizzard could do with FoK/poisons/EB/HB
daring brook
for crafting my MA for all specs, vers/crit or vers mast? or what
limber lion
But I don't think they care enough to do something like that.
daring brook
on ring i think i'm going to do cuz i have the 226 bracers that are boe's
limber lion
for crafting my MA for all specs, vers/crit or vers mast? or what
Yeah that's fine.
strange python
Should change HB into EB and have each echo give its own poison application chance.
limber lion
Instead they just aura-buff Assa by a ridiculous amount
strange python
Granted that'd just shift things into more FoK spam in aoe.
limber lion
I don't think FoK spam would be very healthy either
fleet anchor
But like
limber lion
I mean it's fun to do damage, but the gameplay should still be engaging
fleet anchor
Hidden Blades actually isn't that bad all things considered
brittle pawn
it was just a mistake to take away baseline stuff from legion imo
limber lion
I don't think that hardcasting Flamestrike/Flame Patch is a fun and engaging thing
stoic needle
for crafting my MA for all specs, vers/crit or vers mast? or what
You shouldn't really put crit on MA
fleet anchor
It's really about the same as Poison Bomb for DungeonSlice lol
limber lion
But it does damage, so mages do it.
fleet anchor
Within like 0.4%
limber lion
It's really about the same as Poison Bomb for DungeonSlice lol
Buuuuut when compared to CT
Probably gets destroyed.
daring brook
like i think sub doesn't need haste, sin needs haste, outlaw doesn' t need haste?
but all 3 like mast right?
low girder
none of them particularly like mastery
stoic needle
or vers haste?
Sub doesn't like haste. I think vers/mast is the most well rounded overall
daring brook
hmmm
low girder
mastery's decent for aoe for sub, and i think for sin it's aight in aoe as well
limber lion
Hidden Blades actually isn't *that* bad all things considered
Is this assuming Poisoned Katar as well? Because that increases HB value too.
fathom swift
nobody likes mastery really except sub
low girder
outlaw it's just bad
stoic needle
It's equally meh for all specs
daring brook
then what would you use on secondary lol
stoic needle
Well sin likes it for aoe
daring brook
haste or crit
fathom swift
if you want something neutral go crit/vers
fleet anchor
The biggest problem with Hidden Blades is that you actually can't really bank it
stoic needle
You don't put crit on MA though
limber lion
if you want something neutral go crit/vers
Vers/Haste or Vers/Crit are both fine tbh
fathom swift
why not
stoic needle
Because the effect of it gives you 100% crit
limber lion
The biggest problem with Hidden Blades is that you actually can't really bank it
Yeh true.
stoic needle
Which devalues crit on your gear
limber lion
Imagine if HB scaled exponentially instead of linearly
fathom swift
oh no my stat is devalued for 4s out of 2 minutes
fleet anchor
Like sure there's a theory of like.. you could Nightstalker+MA leggo+big open but then you have to not use FoK the rest of the pull if you want it up for next pull
fathom swift
nevermind the hundreds of crit on the rest of my gear
strange python
HB could be some sort of on use active skill that increases FoK damage for x amount of casts, give some semblance of burst aoe.
limber lion
Where banking FoK charges would be the thing to do
strange python
you said nightstalker, this makes me happy, I love that talent
stoic needle
oh no my stat is devalued for 4s out of 2 minutes
You can run sims with ma and see how much less the stat is valued
limber lion
Like sure there's a theory of like.. you could Nightstalker+MA leggo+big open bu...
Yup
But CT does this even better
stoic needle
It's true for every spec
brave gazelle
Ay boys real question what's better for raiding, blindside or elaborate planning? They seem to be simming close for me
somber hill
turn fok in Shur storm
brave gazelle
Real quick*
limber lion
Ay boys real question what's better for raiding, blindside or elaborate planning...
Just follow your sims.
Depends on your stats/covenant/gear.
stoic needle
turn fok in Shur storm
Then sin becomes a better sub, that's not really a good thing
limber lion
Venthyr people usually sim DS a lot higher than Vigor.
But for the other covenants it's much more tied to actual haste values.
stoic needle
Vers/mastery is the most well rounded stats for using Ma with all 3 specs. It may not be the best for all of them, but crit becomes your worst stat with every spec when you have MA equipped so it doesn't make sense to put crit on it
limber lion
I'd go with Vers/Haste, but it doesn't really matter tbh.
strange python
^
limber lion
You just switch your other gear, enchants and gems accordingly.
fathom swift
how is it well rounded when mastery is the worst stat for 2/3 rogue specs
limber lion
Sub hates haste though
One ring with haste isn't gonna break the spec.
stoic needle
Crit becomes your worst when you have ma equipped
fathom swift
it is
strange python
the main reason I'd persoanlly go ver/haste is that it's probably just the best overall, including for OL where crit does get pretty devalued when using MA
limber lion
Me and Whispyr both have Crit/Vers MA rings.
Do what you must with that information.
strange python
it's not like it will make/break you either way
fathom swift
if you really dont like crit sure whatever dont put crit on it
strange python
people get way to hung up on the marginal differences
limber lion
people get way to hung up on the marginal differences
Yuuuuuup
fathom swift
but why would vers mastery be better than vers haste
stoic needle
The idea that 'mastery is the worst stat for all 3 specs' just isn't true when you're using ma, that's my whole point
Because sub hates haste and the idea is to have a decent ring for all 3 specs
strange python
you have like what 14 other pieces of gear to balance your stats around? like chiiiiiiiiilll
brave gazelle
Just beacuse its the "worst stat" doesn't make it a bad stat ay
strange python
WHAT!? BUT MASTER SAYS IT WORTH 1.1 AND CRIT WORTH 1.2!!!!!
YOU'RE WRONG!!!!
MASTER TERRIBAD!!!!
gusty mirage
BUT MY .3 DPS PER STAT GUIZ
fathom swift
Because sub hates haste and the idea is to have a decent ring for all 3 specs
and outlaw and assa both would much rather have haste than mastery
so why are you saying the combo thats only good for 1 spec instead of for 2/3?
strange python
also haste isn't like super GOOD for sub sure, but like... meh it's still ok'ish for st, and really it needs a buff anyway so who cares #ripslsub
brave gazelle
Tbf even with sub you still want like 9% haste right? So putting haste on a your ring isn't gonna disadvantage you, but again the difference is marginal and you could always sim what's best
strange python
take care with espousing specific values, people get... touchy
brave gazelle
I getcha, I just meant a lil haste never hurt ay
stoic needle
so why are you saying the combo thats only good for 1 spec instead of for 2/3?
If you're prioritizing haste and crit for outlaw and sin, the mastery on MA is often enough to meet all your needs in one slot. Saying that it's 'only good for one spec' isn't true especially when considering aoe scenarios, in which mastery becomes pretty valuable for sin and not that terrible for outlaw either(over haste at least, otherwise nadjia would sim better than theotar for outlaw in dslice)
strange python
someone just legit said to me in game "hey man noticed you're sin now, I told you that once you had good gear sin would scale well!"
yeah dude, the buffs had nothing to do with it, it's all that sick haste i've been getting on gear.
I love peoples understanding of this stuff
strange python
just you wait, we'll end up overpwoered now because of scaling and we'll get mega nerfed bfa sub style
low girder
actually with cttc and doomblade buff i think it ended up being like 28% or something
brave gazelle
We don't talk about the bfa sub nerf 😥
strange python
*narrator voice
Assassination spec gets a buff
meanwhile, a little sub waits for an aura change
gusty mirage
Blizz needs to figure out wtf they want from sub. Idk why they didn’t just revert the change of being able to funnel aoe to ST. I felt like that was such a cool feel to the spec. But now I’m just ranting in the wrong channel lol
fathom swift
If you're prioritizing haste and crit for outlaw and sin, the mastery on MA is o...
isnt theotar vs nadja for outlaw more about other traits than soothing shade and thrill seeker
every single sim i have done with outlaw shows me wanting 0 mastery
its never been good
stoic needle
You use double potency for both, so thrill seeker vs soothing shade is the only comparison
I'll go resim it to confirm, but I'm pretty sure in aoe mastery is better than haste for outlaw
fathom swift
i am skeptical but i could be wrong
unborn root
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
somber hill
anyone using afenar WA's have an issue with flag icon not showing stacks while ur stacking?
oak sapphire
whats the go to leggo atm? still MA?
unborn root
doomblade
lost mist
anyone using afenar WA's have an issue with flag icon not showing stacks while u...
to fix just add a trigger on Flagellation_B with Exact Spell ID(s) : 323654
just that
unborn root
What's the decision making process between picking blindside and EP? Is it just simming yourself, or will blindside generally perform better in a straight single target?
stoic needle
ep is generally better on very short fights, or multi target fights
glad light
Does zoldyck's incrase damage by increasing the speed of dots rather than just buffing the damage?
unborn root
In pvp too ?
ask the pvp channel
low girder
Does zoldyck's incrase damage by increasing the speed of dots rather than just b...
no, it's just straight damage
glad light
I'm not seeing it in logs in key I ran with it 😦
Rupture ticking the same at the start and end of the fight
low girder
strange. can i see?
glad light
654 ticks at start and end, can't think of the reason why
oh maybe it's some on pull empowered thing, because they drop off then go back up
low girder
did you have prideful going in?
low girder
np
simple gulch
What conduits do you guys use for m+
balmy condor
Sudden fractures
clear zealot
!fuu
prisma monolithBOT
Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz
clear zealot
do we use fractures for ST as well or wps?
hazy crater
Sim it. Sudden Fractures does sim better for me in ST as well
But I think it depends
fallen arch
Quick question - I always thought Vigor was the way to go for ST but DS seems to sim higher for me atm. Is this due to my current ilvl/secondary stats?
hazy crater
Yes
reef axle
If the grp has cleave covered, will it be viable to bring sin rogues for st? Or you would still run outlaw rogues?
compact pumice
If the grp has cleave covered, will it be viable to bring sin rogues for st? Or ...
Sin should be better for 2 target cleave. Not sure about 3 target but as long as they live long then sin will do good damage and it will be close either way. But for pure aoe then Outlaw really wins. But I mean, for progression I also went pure ST on Sun King due to the boss damage being the actual important thing (not gonna parse well though).
hazy crater
Oh yeah I assumed when talking about a group the question was about M+
balmy condor
If the grp has cleave covered, will it be viable to bring sin rogues for st? Or ...
It is not generally, no
Sin doesn’t do an impactful level of single target more than outlaw in m+
vagrant bison
How important is the damage of daggers for a dot based class?
I still have the 197 pvp ones 😂
balmy condor
Well it matters regardless of dot class or not
Skill damage is calculated based off of main hand weapon dps for a vast majority of skills
So the mainhand ilvl is usually quite important
The offhand is less important, but still matters for mutilate, and auto attacks
vagrant bison
Alright, thank you
Also, for a beginner, is it better to use shiv on cd or to pool energy for it
hollow escarp
both 
vagrant bison
😂
vagrant bison
So basically once you have like 8sec of cd on shiv you start pooling?
balmy condor
No
If you’re not currently in shiv or vendetta
You don’t envenom until you’re about 30 energy from cap
torn atlas
For NS+MfD+MA build - do we open with CT, or do you apply ST logic and open with Rupt?
Mainly thinking about first boss room of Mists (2 mobs prior, as well as boss fight).
safe barn
torn atlas
full CP rupture on main boss
Yeah sweet. Pretty much how I've been approaching it. Just thought I should verify
vagrant bison
@balmy condor why waiting till you are almost energy capped is shiv is on cd? So you have always energy when shiv is available?
balmy condor
Cause it fixes all problems with one elegant solution
Need to pool for cooldowns?
Done
Worrying about envenom/elaborate planning uptime
Worry no more
hollow escarp
it might take some time to get used to, if you like smashing buttons 
gaunt mortar
Is there a weak aura to show my rotation or is hekili still best to use ?
gloomy fern
ppl use trufigcd
hollow venture
So do people think it's intended for bone spike to not refund charges when used to smack explosives?
hollow escarp
Is there a weak aura to show my rotation or is hekili still best to use ?
HeroRotation is better than Hekili, but I wouldn't recommend using a rotation addon too much
stoic needle
It can refund I think, but sbs applies poisons, so if poison applies on the explosive it'll kill it before the sbs technically does and thus you don't get a refund
hollow escarp
maybe just in the beginning to get used to spells
gaunt mortar
Ty @hollow escarp
hollow escarp
but if you don't understand why you press a button at one point, a rotation addon won't help that much
hollow venture
The sbs doesn't need to be the tick or cause of death to get the refund though is the issue
gaunt mortar
If I was to use HR what would the parse look like usually in a raid situation right now for like a normal or heroic to try it out on ?
stoic needle
The sbs doesn't need to be the tick or cause of death to get the refund though i...
it has to be applied on the target though, and if poisons kill the explosive first it's never technically applied
hollow escarp
If I was to use HR what would the parse look like usually in a raid situation ri...
no idea, last time I used it was in Legion 😄
gaunt mortar
Is it 99% close to the Max utilization for the best parse ?
hollow escarp
but it's based on APL
gaunt mortar
What’s apl sorry don’t understand English well
stoic needle
apl is ability priority list, the rotation that sims like raidbots/simc use
hollow venture
Yeah oshosi that's what I'm thinking thing just does before the server says it is on. So a bug and should be reported as such.
gaunt mortar
Oh ok so it runs as close as it can get to raid bots sim ok got it
stoic needle
kojiyama uses herorotation and gets good parses with it. but herorotation will only get you 90% of the way there, because you still have to keep fight mechanics in mind
stoic needle
Yeah oshosi that's what I'm thinking thing just does before the server says it i...
sure, couldn't hurt tbh
hollow escarp
in legion I was actually using Aethys Rotation instead of weakauras
because at some point you learn the rotation
so you don't need it
hollow venture
Well I've done my part for visibility then if any other necrosins are out there and also want to report it.
gaunt mortar
Yea I’m just trying to Lrn it not be a nub and use it all the time
stoic needle
it's not a bad tool to use for a little while as long as you don't rely on it completely
gaunt mortar
I don’t plan on it , just level my rogue to 60 like a week ago and been gearing out for sin and wanted to see about the rotation for it . Been enjoying venthyr sin a lot but aoe pulls sucks for me cause i can’t pull a lot of dps for aoe pulls only st fights
I usually stay around 4.5k but can burst to 11.5k for st fights
round harbor
I still use hekili as a helper, not a full time follow this
10/10m 2k+ io. Who gives a shit if people don't like that you use it
Just say fuck the haters and do you big dog
gaunt mortar
@round harbor what do you parse ?
hollow escarp
the reason I recommended hero rotation is because it's developed by rogue community members
gloomy fern
hollow escarp
<@!115616121519996937> what do you parse ?
based on name he is playing dk or hunter 
gaunt mortar
yea I’m gonna try HR
round harbor
I parse purple and higher
Except on bosses where strat restricts parses
Or sludge where I was brutally assassinated
Sadge
gaunt mortar
And you follow hekili to the t @round harbor ?
round harbor
For the most part it's correct yeah
But I know the specs I play well enough to know when to not follow it
gaunt mortar
Do you have it Setup to show aoe and st or what
round harbor
It auto shows aoe and st
gaunt mortar
Cause when I was using it , it had two bars 1 for aoe and 1 for st
gloomy fern
sin got like the most straightforward playstyle ever though
hollow escarp
yeah, after using it for a while, you will realise that sin rotation is very easy
there are a few essential rules
but nothing too crazy
gaunt mortar
What’s the rules
gloomy fern
Hit shiv on cd
gaunt mortar
What % of haste should I be at to be comfortable?
And got it on the rules thx y’all
hollow escarp
ilvl > secondary stats on anything that isn't rings or neck
that's a thing with the spec though, you use energy, you get energy starved
haste is helping with this
but there is no amount of haste that you should necessary look for
I have 25% and sometimes get starved when I smash keyboard 
gaunt mortar
How do I post my raiderio if I’m on mobile ?
brittle idol
Sin feels more relaxed compared to sub and outlaw
gaunt mortar
What is the average I should be pulling at the level ?
hollow escarp
gaunt mortar
I was sub at one point lol
balmy condor
Yeah the akaari’s is fucked
gaunt mortar
Been farming soul ash for the Leggo
balmy condor
But I would assume you can probably hit 5k fairly consistently
gaunt mortar
Yea my sims says 5.7
I heard the best leggo for sin is the gloves so been farming for those
balmy condor
For doomblade, yes
vagrant bison
In m plus running subterfuge, should you garrote 3 targets, fok, CT or garrote 4 targets, CT, fok?
balmy condor
Either is fine
If you garrote 3 times you would have to generate though
Just finishing on 3 isn’t really recommended
vagrant bison
So better to open with 4? I saw a guide that said to use fok after 3 garrotes to spread poisons
hot stag
What does this mean exactly? "- flag/sepsis on cooldown, only sync if you know you are not missing a cast"
I always hold flag to line it up with vendetta on raids
balmy condor
So better to open with 4? I saw a guide that said to use fok after 3 garrotes to...
The difference is very marginal
balmy condor
I always hold flag to line it up with vendetta on raids
Yeah the point is DONT do that
Let say a fight is 6:30 long
You get 4 vendetta’s, one on pull, and then 2/4/6
Flag being a 1:30 cooldown, would get one on pull, 1:30/3/4:30/6
For a total of 5
You missed a cast of flag by holding it for vendetta
hot stag
ohhh okok
balmy condor
Holding it, and thus missing a cast, was therefore a loss
hot stag
So I only get to cast them both on pull and at 6
gloomy fern
well there is only 3 fights longer than 6 min
balmy condor
In that situation, yes
balmy condor
well there is only 3 fights longer than 6 min
Depends on progression, but you can repeat the process for 3:30 kills if you so desire
I’ll leave that as an exercise for the reader
north basin
The issue is when u dont know fight lenght. So u gamble)
balmy condor
Yup
The default should be casting on cooldown
If you know what the length is
You can plan around it
And sync and avoid missing casts at the same time
In which case, go for it
You get that 50 dps
north basin
U planned and then 5 players died and fight prolonged for 1 min more))
balmy condor
But it’s such a silly min max in my opinion
vagrant bison
Is blindside a viable option in m+? Or elaborate planning is better
hollow escarp
EP is better
balmy condor
Blindside isn’t an option pretty much
You can make some convoluted argument for blindside on tyrannical
And I would be here to lose my mind over it because it’s silly
vestal wren
i think its the discussion about "should i go full st build on tyranical" rather than "is talent X good"
balmy condor
Yeah
vagrant bison
I tried blindside in raiding yesterday, it actually gave me a lot of cp
balmy condor
The answer to the first question being “lul no”
vestal wren
blindside is good on single target encounters, it starts losing out with more targets
balmy condor
Instantly loses by a pretty wide margin on 2 targets
hollow escarp
also EP is valuable for bleeds on cleave a lot
vagrant bison
Yeah, I don't really think it's good to use st talents in mythics. Every dps that I played with said that eventually it's a big dps loss overall
balmy condor
The fact that people play ep/vigor for single target should tell you all you need to know about the slim margin of victory blindside has atm
hollow escarp
don't think any class is going ST on m+
vestal wren
thats correct
but it wasn't uncommon to massively sacrafice multi target for minor gains in past xpacs
keep in mind that m+ meta often gets decided by a handful of people and their opinion
balmy condor
Even on tyrannical, bosses don’t ever make up more than like 30-40% of the dungeon
And all the single target mini-bosses and scary pulls aren’t really scary on tyrannical
So you pull stuff into those
hollow escarp
it's a bit funny because I can see the argument about tyranical and 5 prides every dungeon, but even with that you don't wanna go full single target
balmy condor
Yeh
vagrant bison
Yeah, it makes sense. It's just that. EP looks a little boring
vestal wren
the reason outlaw is so dominant is because it does well on both aoe and st
its not outstanding on st
vagrant bison
Man, I like outlaw but the rng is so frustrating
hollow escarp
is it though?
vagrant bison
Without roll the bones it would be much better for me
vestal wren
i also think that necrolord is rly good for m+,
so if you want to play sin and be somewhat compatitive to outlaw its probably the pick
hollow escarp
CTO is a good conduit to help with that, and you have RTB cdr as well which makes it less punishing for bad rolls
vestal wren
and i don't think that necro is bad in single target
the gap between necro/venthyr is also getting lower with further optimizations to the apl
vagrant bison
Yeah but still, do you actually enjoy your Dps to be impacted by RNG?
vagrant bison
The thing that appeals to me about assassination is actually the lack of CDs
vagrant bison
Well
fallow otter
vestal wren
outlaw does good sustained aoe and does consistent single target
balmy condor
the thing outlaw does the best? <a:PepeLaugh:579332145190010900>
Man what a game we play
Where the single target spec isn’t bursty
The aoe spec isn’t bursty
And the bursty spec also isn’t bursty
vestal wren
neither of our specs is super bursty
but thats more a issue of design this xpac
specs just rely on more than strong baseline damage amps
vagrant bison
The bursty spec is sub?
vestal wren
assassination is more bursty
balmy condor
Yeh
vestal wren
but thats probably also related to tuning
hollow escarp
sounds so dumb lol, but it's true
vestal wren
assassinations baseline after the buffs is actually quite high
vestal wren
shb is actually nice
vestal wren
shadowstrike does quite some damage
balmy condor
It’s a 3 minute cooldown with less impact than most 1:30 or 2 min cds
vestal wren
vestal wren
yes
vestal wren
its probably a bit to high given it runs akaari
hollow escarp
you could tell how it was at the beginning of the expac when sub was fotm
balmy condor
you could tell how it was at the beginning of the expac when sub was fotm
Fotm usually makes people like a spec
hollow escarp
yeah, it might be that more then
balmy condor
See: “omg sin with corruptions so fun”
vestal wren
shadowstrike does actually more damage this xpac because they merged the 25% damage amp baseline on accident on beta
balmy condor
And depending on who you ask, that either means raid haste or m+ crit
Or even raid crit
So really
vestal wren
sin with corruption was fun
balmy condor
People don’t really care for what it plays like as long as it’s pumping
hollow escarp
I remember, been playing casually and got trolled for not going expedient in raid 
but I had m+ gear
vestal wren
because it did a lot of damage and you could totally ignore one aspect of the spec thats energy
balmy condor
Big numbers always means fun for the community
And I will stand by that no matter how often rae tells me that sin isn’t ever fun
vestal wren
i think its diffrent for everyone
balmy condor
Yeah of course
vestal wren
i find the spec not that engaging because of the relative slow pacing.
But i can see why it appeals to others
balmy condor
I just think a broad base of the community determines fun based on viability and damage
vestal wren
i agree
hollow escarp
I like sin even when it's not the best
solar bramble
curious covenant question .. . . assuming sub pvp + sin pve (m+ predominantly. dislike outlaw with a passion). . what's the best all around. . for pvp i'm pretty sure it's NF hands down for soulshape. m+ it's necrolord. and ST it's venthyr . . . but overall if you need to pick one which would you generally go with
balmy condor
I get whiffs of it from the death knights these days with frost being the new rage
Unholy so fun omg, but now it isn’t the giga uber fotm
vestal wren
output is vital to fun, a rotation can be good and the playerbase won't like the spec (ww & sub in last xpacs)
balmy condor
So now frost so much fun omg
balmy condor
curious covenant question .. . . assuming sub pvp + sin pve (m+ predominantly. d...
Probably fae
hollow escarp
the unholy players I personally know prefer to play frost
balmy condor
Well no
solar bramble
tbh you oneshot better with venthyr
compact pumice
Soulshape
solar bramble
sap > soulshape
vestal wren
tbh you oneshot better with venthyr
how?
solar bramble
and soulshape kiting
hollow escarp
you don't one shot with venthyr, you just do crazy burst in short window
so you can kill in stun
compact pumice
Necro seems to be the choice for AWC etc now
hollow escarp
which means for most people one shot
solar bramble
venthyrs 1 shot on sub is kind of redonculous . . and ya ik that isnt' a word
vestal wren
soulshape is rly strong
compact pumice
Due to the Fleshcraft
vestal wren
but the oneshot benefits a lot from koryan
solar bramble
to me death in a stunlock is 1 shot 😦 . . but ya i get waht you mean
balmy condor
Basically everything sucks
gusty adder
Been playing outlaw thus far, but wanting to dip into assassination - would you recommend me making doomblade crit/haste or haste/vers, considering i'd like to be using the spec in pvp as well?
balmy condor
Pick what you want
balmy condor
Been playing outlaw thus far, but wanting to dip into assassination - would you ...
Won’t matter really
gusty adder
Won’t matter really
Perfect, haste/vers it is I suppose
balmy condor
I doubt the damage difference is even recognizable
solar bramble
i started with zoldyck for my sin leggo as it's more well rounded to multiple area's of content. where doomblade isn't as good in m+
vestal wren
the damage amp stacking just scales insanely well with the 10% damage amp from wild hunt
i agree that soul shape is probably the strongest utility spell (not unexpected)
compact pumice
You talking about the Rotten one shot thing?
vestal wren
yes
solar bramble
well nf is the easiest to return to for me as it was my original covenant so it's ofc capped on renown
compact pumice
That seems too memey to take seriously for long term
Can't imagine choosing a covenant for it
vestal wren
you stack ns, dark, rotten, dagger, wht, trinkets, pots, etc.
solar bramble
nah the nf covenant would be more for soulshape than anything
hollow escarp
Can't imagine choosing a covenant for it
it's not hard to swap covenant though
solar bramble
necrolord would be for the defensiveness
hollow escarp
venthyr signature ability is the worst for progression
vestal wren
i got told people start to gravitate towards assassination in pvp now
compact pumice
it's not hard to swap covenant though
I suppose... maybe I'm just not that quick to jump on a bandwagon for stuff like that
hollow escarp
all other 3 are actually good
vestal wren
so will be interesting to see
solar bramble
trying to 2v2 or 3v3 as rogue that isn't necrolord is kind of rough . . fall over pretty easily.
vestal wren
how things develop
hollow escarp
interesting
solar bramble
the issue with sin was survivability necrolord gives that to us. . and bonespikes has consistent pressure
vestal wren
the oneshot is rly strong up to higher rankings
so you can more or less cheese high arena ranking with it
its one of the reasons its so popular
hollow escarp
I guess you could get 2100 if you have some pvp exp easily
solar bramble
ya if you have 2 rogues playing rotten you can cheese some interesting rating .. i'm more an rbg player though so NF is usually what i lean towards as is
vestal wren
2k+ is when people start to know how to counter it
solar bramble
convoke people know how to counter earlier
hollow escarp
but that's true lol
solar bramble
it's much easier to stop convoke than a from stealth instant nuke. .
hollow escarp
yeah, had boomie friends complain they get stunned in convoke at 1400
solar bramble
20-30k shadowstrike from basically nowhere is a bit harder to predict . . . sure you can pre-wall when blind/sap are up . . but i'm not forced to open right then i can wait on the wall
solar bramble
you use blind/sap to basically stack up dagger in the dark
hollow escarp
and even at that point, it's quite hard to react to unexpected damage
solar bramble
the predictable part is you drop out of stealth to shadowdance before vanish shadowstrikign. .
vagrant bison
Just kick shadowstrike, lol noob
solar bramble
lol
vestal wren
20-30k shadowstrike from basically nowhere is a bit harder to predict . . . sure...
you see the stacks, so you have a good idea when he wants to initiate
hollow escarp
^
vestal wren
sure
hollow escarp
you can just tease
solar bramble
you usually dont awnt to because that could kill your teammate lol
solar bramble
ya . .
and if you stop it . . the rogue has basically nothing . . they commit everything to it
dry shoal
Whats a good haste i should be headin for?
I’m normally a 225 outlaw and just tested assass for 2 15s but my haste seems so low
vestal wren
the entire talent combination punishes you for not oneshotting
solar bramble
oof necrolord vs NF is such a hard choice . . i really like fleshcraft but i also like soulshape 😦
vestal wren
if you play sin/outlaw i would say necro
solar bramble
i play sin/sub . . i detest outlaw for some reason
vestal wren
necro is weird on sub
solar bramble
i'll play it in m+ for ksm but that's about it
balmy condor
Whats a good haste i should be headin for?
I’m normally a 225 outlaw and just t...
Read pins
vestal wren
because of shuriken storm
vestal wren
i have no idea whats currently played in pvp outside of the oneshot
solar bramble
you can use any of them . . . in arena it's usually necrolord in rbg's it's nf
vestal wren
but as mentioned earlier, assassination is atm getting attention
so you could onetrick assassination
solar bramble
sin has always been my prefered rogue spec so i'm ok with that lol
in rbg's that's a no go . . . yikes
yo miss out on way too much to go sin in rbg's . . . it'd be a different story if shadowy duel wasn't just sub (and even then. the shadowdance spam cc is extremely valuable)
obtuse ruin
what slot is doomblade usually crafted on?
gaunt mortar
gloves
obtuse ruin
guide says shoulders but everyone doing gloves
lean coral
guide says shoulders but everyone doing gloves
wet condor
is there a way to write a macro for blindside and mut?
solar bramble
so for now i'll just go necrolord . . . and begin my swap back to NF (my original. necrolord i havent' done y et) . . get ksm on necrolord and then swap back for pvp if i feel soulshape is that big a deal (need 2 weeks to swap back anyway. . may as well test it out)
obtuse ruin
oh
wet condor
for having 1 button only
vagrant bison
What do you mean? A macro with modifiers?
gloomy fern
the amount of ppl who want that astonish me, its just bad
hollow escarp
I wanted to make one for my mistweaver while leveling and found out that it was disabled long time ago
because people would put their entire dps rotation in one button lol
vagrant bison
i remember a dk in wotlk asked if it was possible to put lichborne in his castsequence rotation 
wet condor
What do you mean? A macro with modifiers?
muti standard, ambush on blindside proc, one button
vagrant bison
if you want to have a macro that casts mutilate and then turns automatically into ambush during a blindside proc its not possible
crude wedge
prisma monolithBOT
Macroing Ambush to Mutilate only works with the use of a addon.
It comes with the downside that it often requires multiple key presss.
Suggested addon to use(Gnome Sequencer):http://tiny.cc/mxb6tz
Showcase Video: #assassination message
vagrant bison
just use a keybind
torn atlas
I just made Ambush a shift modifier of Envenom. Easiest way without adding new buttons.
neat jacinth
Good Morning everyone 🙂
Theotar or Nadjia for M+? 👀
fair geyser
On classic you could macro riposte into sinister strike
And riposte was ability that u could use once u parry attack
neat jacinth
Yeah, thought about that. But i like having 2 pot conduits aswell 😉 And one other question: All sec stats seem to be fine for assa in M+, right? so no need to avoid mastery?
balmy condor
You want to avoid it for single target
But it’s pretty okay in aoe
So if you’re mainly looking for m+, then just pick whatever
Haste Vers crit mastery
All fine
neat jacinth
You want to avoid it for single target
Crit still outperforms everything else, right? and ty 🙂 So simply going for ilvl in the first place and simming rings and necks for my current gear.
balmy condor
At the end of the day, ilevel is the main decider like 95% of the time
balmy condor
Crit still outperforms everything else, right? and ty 🙂 So simply going for ilv...
Kinda? Depends on your gear honestly
Trying to get crit on all your gear probably isn’t the wisest decision
vagrant bison
is phial of putrefaction a good thinket? i got a 226 one and idk if the passive damage is good
balmy condor
Phial is our best trinket
vagrant bison
oh
balmy condor
In both aoe and single target
vagrant bison
poggers
balmy condor
It’s crazy strong
neat jacinth
Kinda? Depends on your gear honestly
i know, i know. just wanted to say that a big chunk of crit on f.e. one ring seems to be not too bad
balmy condor
i know, i know. just wanted to say that a big chunk of crit on f.e. one ring see...
I mean yeah
Crit is good
Big chunk of good is also good
So seems reasonable
vagrant bison
i also got the overcharged anima battery. i decided to keep it cause its a huge upgrade as pure agility but the use on effect doesn't look good
balmy condor
Battery is a shit trinket yeh
brisk forge
I would say around 30% crit is really good for m+ and a decent amount of mastery atleast if u play Necro. Haste isnt that important, i thought it was but pulling same numbers with 9 as 17
neat jacinth
Phial is our best trinket
what to use as a second trinket? IQD? Got 226 Toxin atm
balmy condor
Lot of good ones out there
Iqd, hateful, skulkers is okay, ooze, dreadfire
Decanter can be usable
Shadowgrasp is pretty good
torn atlas
Flaedwing 
hollow escarp
Flaedwing <:feelscryman:585734081304592385>
yeah, but you need to remember to click it once every 60 min
that's a bit too much
balmy condor
Flayedwing garbo sadly
torn atlas
yeah, but you need to remember to click it once every 60 min
It's nice that you think I don't stand in the puddles or frontal and die before 60 minutes is up.
I really should try and farm an upgrade.
solar bramble
curious are there multiple levels in necrolord area?
shows an available quest but i can't seem to find it. . i've tried going upstairs but didn't look like anything connected
solar bramble
hmm quest doesn't appear in either location
balmy condor
Whack
slim wagon
try reloading etc, I've seen some buggy quests that way
solar bramble
tried that already lol
how in gods name do you get serrated bone spikes off of a dummy lol
hollow escarp
you zone out
solar bramble
that's a long walk to zone out in malxraxus lol
and i'm assuming you gota progress th rough the story to get fleshcraft (have bonespikes right off but not fleshcraft.)
hollow escarp
if there is world boss or WQ group up, you can join and hope you get teleported out
balmy condor
and i'm assuming you gota progress th rough the story to get fleshcraft (have bo...
You get fleshcraft like 2 quests after
vagrant bison
at what point fok becomes better than mutilate? more than 3 targets?
limber lion
Yup
topaz sage
If you get a Blideside proc during Master Assassin buff, should I use the Ambush to build CP instead of Mutilate?
limber lion
Yes
torn atlas
that's a long walk to zone out in malxraxus lol
Hands down the worst thing about Necro (asides the zone being a diabetic ulcer) is how bloody far you need to travel just to get to the target dummies.
swift dragon
that and the leather set 
neat pulsar
and no fly master in the covenant sanctum
venthyr have everything in the same room lol
swift dragon
same with kyrian
fae and necro are just fucked
necro order hall is cool tho
mfw i have outlaw colors cause i was interested in off speccing it but my main is assa
lean notch
Does Elaborate Planning snapshot Rupture / Garrote, or is the 10% dmg increase only during it's up window?
pastel shale
that and the leather set <:peepo:585741987798581268>
Leather set is the best part of necro
swift dragon
its horrendous lmao
pastel shale
Precisely 
olive wagon
So any outlawers that switched to assassination now in 9.0.5? If so do u prefer it more as a playstyle or just because it’s better now ? (As it seems to be)
amber mountain
The only other rogue main in my guild mained outlaw and has set up his 'sin spec with the changes in 9.0.5. Mostly for raiding.
Similarly, I still have an outlaw spec I use in M+ at the moment because I have better luck with non-dagger drops, so I have 1 good dagger and 1 fantastic sword
olive wagon
Ah yes and I guess sin is still a 2 dagger spec must have right ? For mutilate
I’m asking because I have no subscription right now but thinking to come back
amber mountain
for mutilate, daggers are required, but not really for anything else. So it's entirely possible to go with something other than daggers entirely, but that makes my rotation feel janky. I use mutilate less than just about everything else, but I still use it
turbid harbor
i'd imagine using fan of knives on single target would be a dps loss, somebody should run sims to confirm
amber mountain
Oh, yeah, sorry, mutilate is much more important on single target 😛
sullen pagoda
pretty sure you don't need to run a sim for that one 
turbid harbor
😛
amber mountain
Been running almost exclusively M+ with my rogue trying to get better daggers >.<
dawn ivy
i think even in a dungeon if you try to run a non dagger you're inting but might wanna check that math
limber lion
i think even in a dungeon if you try to run a non dagger you're inting but might...
Correct. Not using daggers have been results of jank and awful borrowed power, like the Lash of the Void fists from Ra-den in BFA. Currently you lose out on a lot by not using 2 daggers that it's not even worth thinking about.
swift dragon
yeah i fail to see how youre going to deal any damage to bosses
unless you somehow manage to get perma blindside proc
but i mean
limber lion
unless you somehow manage to get perma blindside proc
You get blindside procs from using Mutilate
swift dragon
the odds of that hapenning are close to none
swift dragon
oh
well yeah
i guess you could spam fok but thats going to fuck up your finisher uptime and energy regen bigtime
limber lion
i guess you could spam fok but thats going to fuck up your finisher uptime and e...
Using FoK in ST was a thing in Legion, but hasn't really been a thing ever since.
dawn ivy
the more i hear about how fun sin in legion was the more it sounds terrible wtf
whyd you use fok on st? was hidden blades a thing?
swift dragon
Using FoK in ST was a thing in Legion, but hasn't really been a thing ever since...
lmao what
plain thistle
not using daggers in BfA was good/ok for some fights where you didnt use mutilate at all, but only because ra-den weapon was good
lashing corruption
dont think something like poxstorm can make that happen again, and in dungeons you will use mutilate a lot
polar cape
I tink it was for stuff like giga pull in TD with 3echo blade
plain thistle
yeah, and after that you switched to outlaw 🙂
and hivemind there was top logs without daggers using raden weapons too
bronze forum
Hello, is it better to Zoldyck or to Doomblade fights like Council of Blood where you go down to execute different times in a single fight? Is there a way to sim it?
limber lion
Hello, is it better to Zoldyck or to Doomblade fights like Council of Blood wher...
Doomblade is still better. Even if there are 3 targets that go to execute, it's still not more time spent in execute.
Think about it
turbid harbor
there was an artifact power trait in legion called poisoned knives that caused some silly things to happen
limber lion
3 targets, 100% hp each. In total it's 300% boss hp. All of those go to execute once, which is 30% of the boss' health
turbid harbor
currently you only fok at 4+ targets, so fok on single target is trolling
limber lion
3x 30%
So the bosses have 300% hp and you execute 90% of the HP
Meaning that there's 210% left outside of execute
Now let's just divide it by 3, so we get one boss
70%
It's still the same amount of time spent in execute
Regardless if there's 3 bosses dying
Or just 1 big boss
Let's take another example
limber lion
In theory, let's say Sludge has 1.5M hp and each Council boss have 500k.
Sludge starts executing at 500K, each of the council bosses start executing at 166.7k
ancient kraken
% is a funny thing
bronze forum
Now, my question is: is it worth to dot up another boss at least, just to funnel more envenoms on my main target?
limber lion
Now, my question is: is it worth to dot up another boss at least, just to funnel...
Yes, you should rupture/garrote one additional boss, making sure to keep poisons up as well.
bronze forum
I still don't think I'll be better than Outlaw, expecially with Nik last
But at least I get an add to funnel with even in ph 3
pastel shale
but you spend more time in execute phase right 
mellow pier
100% better than outlaw if there is a boomy in your raid
limber lion
Depends on your team comp and what you need more
AoE, boss damage or attendant burst damage.
Assa rocks in boss damage, Sub rocks in attendant burst (which is often a problem in prog) and Outlaw rocks in AoE.
mellow pier
Burst dmg isn’t the problem in prog
It’s pple swapping lol
Atleast at this point in raid tier
bronze forum
On inerva they put me on boss full time as we kinda hit the hard enrage sometimes
So yeah, I think some more ST is welcome even on council
gloomy fern
I mean dotting inerva adds give u more dps
bronze forum
We also have a boomkin (and a feral), so attendandts should be no problems
limber lion
Burst dmg isn’t the problem in prog
Killing the attendant is the problem, be it swapping or not doing enough burst damage.
bronze forum
I mean dotting inerva adds give u more dps
I always dot up the tank one, if we get one, I don't even bother with small ones, they don't stay up enough
gloomy fern
Not slg
bronze forum
I sometimes throw a garrote if I feel like it
mellow pier
Yes slg
With current strats
U push boss asap
It will do less parse dmg sure
But it’s better imo
limber lion
No
Outlaw is still better in SLG
And it's not even close.
Assa is better in P3, but P3 is rarely the problem for comps. It's getting to P3 that's the problem.
mellow pier
Most of outlaws dmg is taken care of by hunters lol
limber lion
And that's where Outlaw does way way way better.
limber lion
Most of outlaws dmg is taken care of by hunters lol
Yeah because every single guild in the world has 5 hunters right?
mellow pier
2 or 3 even
bronze forum
Outlaw gets to adrenaline on like every pillar with average luck
limber lion
Most don't have 2 or 3 hunters.
mellow pier
Most guilds don’t have 2 hunters? Yikes
bronze forum
And If you get broadside + True Bearing on your first roll you can also adrenaline at pull
mellow pier
U want consistency
ancient kraken
And If you get broadside + True Bearing on your first roll you can also adrenali...
SLG= Stone Legion Generals
mellow pier
Assassin for sludge as well
bronze forum
Sorry
ancient kraken
^^
limber lion
Assa for everything but SLG.
bronze forum
Lmao, fucked that up
amber mountain
I'm glad to see i'm not the only person who just rolls between 2 specs depending on the fight
radiant fossil
@limber lion isnt phase 3 the only phase that matters on slg ? I mean do we really need to play outlaw just to padd on adds ?
limber lion
<@!165215952479322112> isnt phase 3 the only phase that matters on slg ? I mean ...
Incorrect.
Phase 3 is the easy part.
radiant fossil
and prio target goliath should be better as sin
limber lion
On progression you spend most of your wipes just trying to get to P3
When you get to P3, the boss usually dies in 3-5 pulls.
Might take you 200 pulls to get to P3, 205 pulls to kill the boss.
radiant fossil
Yeah but because of strats no ?
limber lion
<@!165215952479322112> isnt phase 3 the only phase that matters on slg ? I mean ...
Also you don't "pad" on adds in SLG. The adds are very important and they need to die quick
It's not like you're there just to show high on the meter, because you won't.
radiant fossil
What an outlaw rogue could do better than just padds on adds ? Since every others classes can cleave or aoe better.
limber lion
You're there to help kill the adds.
radiant fossil
Yeah you'are right i guess
limber lion
What an outlaw rogue could do better than just padds on adds ? Since every other...
Rogue is not the best class for that fight, but Outlaw is the clear winner out of the 3 specs that we have.
radiant fossil
I never felt we needed an outlaw damage on adds to help.
limber lion
That's probably on your guild then.
radiant fossil
could have an assa, wouldnt have change something. Maybe a comp diff
limber lion
Most guilds, especially pre-nerf, could not kill skirmishers/commandos quick enough
The nerf changed the fight dramatically.
gloomy fern
U think sin is good at shield dmg?
radiant fossil
We had 3/4 hunts for slg, so shield werent a problem.
We had more problem zerging some goliath
gloomy fern
I mean sin was useless on that also until 9.0.5 where majority alrdy done it anyway
radiant fossil
true true
gloomy fern
I do however play sin to spice it up, fight is so ez now anyways
oak sapphire
is there a guide for assa rogue thats current?
dusting off my rogue and need somewhere to start
gloomy fern
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
oak sapphire
ty
south cypress
great
vagrant bison
with all these stealth bugs play assa is quite difficult
battle shout removes stealth...
vagrant bison
what it does have to do with the soulbind?
plain thistle
are you using this thing?
lofty shell
its the token of appreciation
vagrant bison
yes
lofty shell
that causes stealth issue
plain thistle
yup
plain thistle
a bug most likely
vagrant bison
i did a dungeon with a warrior that was using battle shout before pulling the packs, it was so annoying
also heroism makes you go out of stealth
lofty shell
ye they give you "beneficial magic effects"
proccing the token
double potency isnt that good anyways
vagrant bison
thanks, i had no idea of this interaction
lofty shell
i think to avoid it you pick the middle row on theotar bottom