assassination

[soft shale]

then you choose

[royal lantern]

just think its funny that they sim the same

its litearlly a 2dps difference

[soft shale]

yea variance does that

but hey maybe crit can highroll more

like i remember funny tentacles/IS sims

or full masterful sub sims with like 40-50% variance

[royal lantern]

yeee, going with crit

[limber lion]

Haste/Crit especially as Venth

Crit usually pulls ahead as Venth after a while.

Doesn't really matter tbh

[royal lantern]

gotta love how i answer questions quite often here, and then show up and ask stuff like that

[limber lion]

Secondaries are shit.

Everything is shit.

[normal spoke]

So annoying that 2ndaries are in nice highlighted green and the agility is in a blending white... but it should be opposite pretty much.

[royal lantern]

oh, and quick side information

if you bought your baseitem from 1 faction

and then swap, the legendary wont have the "crafted by XYZ" text

[normal spoke]

At least in SL pre 9.1... hopefully it starts shifting with 9.1 already

[royal lantern]

@soft shale good choice, went from 24%crit too 27%crit

and now can feel better cus i can think" yeha every 4th hit is a crit"

[soft shale]

dont worry brah

i have had like 40% crit

and i look at the log

and see 14% crit on envenom/evis

and im like hmm

[normal spoke]

dood... with poisoned katar conduit + 35% crit and 3 targets around me... you would think that those cps will fill up quickly... but noooo... imagine seeing three cps after three Fan of Knives casts back to back.
😩

[limber lion]

Yup

It's pretty bad.

[royal lantern]

BoD, MA as a talent

[limber lion]

It sucks on M Sire as well. Getting 2 cp from hitting 8 targets with 50% crit

[royal lantern]

fight starts, mut->garrote->mut, not a single crit

alt f4

[gloomy fern]

that looks wrong

[frosty cedar]

can anyone explain how fan actually generates CP

cause sometimes I get giga CP and sometimes 2

[gloomy fern]

gotta do the crit

[drifting cloud]

+1 for every crit

[balmy condor]

yeah, read your passive called seal fate

that's also the reason why mutilate gives you 3 or 4 cp sometimes

[drifting cloud]

hey dont forget 2

please delete MA ty blizzo

(the talent)

[balmy condor]

lmao

[drifting cloud]

whispyr can I ask for a small favour

[balmy condor]

no

no favours

[drifting cloud]

unlucky

[balmy condor]

what is it

[drifting cloud]

oh nvm seems to be a newerish pin

guess I havent checked in a while

[royal lantern]

whispr, another question

why is this discord called RAVENholdt

but there is 0informations about birds?

[balmy condor]

fuck

that's a good question

[gloomy fern]

here u got a bird

[royal lantern]

yeha but what kind of raven is that

or is it a crow

[gloomy fern]

its a murderous one

very rare

[balmy condor]

a fun raven fact

is that they use hand gestures

and they will point with their beaks similar to how we point with our fingers

[royal lantern]

why is this not in the pins

smh

[frosty cedar]

thats pretty cool

[dusk lion]

Hey just trying to get a little clarification which leggo should I focus first zoldycks or doom?

[limber lion]

Depends on which content you do mostly.

For AOE and M+ you want to get Zoldycks.

Doomblade is mostly used in raids and PvP.

[dusk lion]

I will mostly be raiding and doing mythic+ on outlaw

[limber lion]

Then Doomblade is probably the preferred choice.

[dusk lion]

Ok just wanted to be sure before I spent my ash this week

[gloomy fern]

lol ppl taking r1 shriek hc going the 100% battle pot talent and having phantom fire doing 850 dps and like 80% uptime and 100% pi uptime

imagine they using crit iqd instead of double on use dmg trink

[limber lion]

Oh they overthrew my r1 rip

That's kind of a dank build, ngl

But those 3 PI's doing work for sure xd

[gloomy fern]

its more

[limber lion]

Oh right it's actually 100% uptime

[limber lion]

Welp

[gloomy fern]

they rly tried hard

[limber lion]

Sheeeez

[gloomy fern]

i guess they was taking turns having 100% pi

[stoic needle]

[gloomy fern]

easily over 9k with that build and iqd

[shy dust]

This is why

Heroic parses are a meme

Lfr parses are more honest

[gloomy fern]

haha, refined palate bis

[shy dust]

Have you got an Iqd?

[gloomy fern]

only a 203

cba farming dos

[stoic needle]

Imagine not being an iqd gamer

[shy dust]

[stoic needle]

[gloomy fern]

one day

[limber lion]

Feels good to say that, doesn't it?

[stoic needle]

It really do

It only took me 10 dos in a row

[gloomy fern]

i do an avarage of 1 m+ per week on my rogue

[shy dust]

Same

I might do 4 this week

[gloomy fern]

ye if u do more than 1 by misstake u gotta commit

[limber lion]

Ye that Refined Palate build actually sims a lot better than Nadja

[stoic needle]

I have to do 10 keys a week because no mythic vault

Good thing I enjoy keys

[gloomy fern]

i dont need to do any this week i know im getting dagger

[pure moth]

You may have just jinxed it

[gloomy fern]

no such thing, will be 233 dagger and some other 233 item

[pure moth]

Ah you have mythic sire vault. Then yeppp

[burnt star]

I got one cube in vault.. i didnt even want it

But now i cant remove it :)

[stoic needle]

All I really want from vault now is 226 cube or Phial, pox or a necklace

[ember nest]

!ui

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[gloomy fern]

hmm the pot build is prolly better on like all parse ~ 2 min fights in hc

gonna try it out

[limber lion]

Yeh and after simming it, looks like MFD is also the play if you get a 30s pull timer and use it at 28s.

[gloomy fern]

haha max stream right now looking at rage clips

[limber lion]

1.5mins (with 30s assumed pull timer) with my character, even without PI the highest sim is higher than what the dudes got with 100% uptime on PI

lul

Also

Lemunter had 4 PI's, but there's only 3 priests in the raid

wat

[gloomy fern]

some pis last 50s other 20s

wut

[frail fossil]

nf guardian ?

making pi less than 2min cd

[limber lion]

With 3 PI's Subt starts pulling ahead

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/wQCmKNTL9PdXtZBA#fight=22&type=casts&view=timeline&ability=10060

They only cast 3 PI's

[frail fossil]

spriest got fae guardian

[limber lion]

The last priest used his PI at 30.5s

The fights lasts for 81s

[frail fossil]

yeah that's weird lol

[limber lion]

50s PI

[frail fossil]

something sus is going over there

[gloomy fern]

yeah 2 of the pis is 50s one 20s

[sullen pagoda]

jesus man some people actually care that much about hc logs

[limber lion]

Actually even with 1 PI, Subt starts pulling ahead.

[shut panther]

Any worth to see guides? Not sure if IV is worth, because they said zoldyck is best overall and a lot of ppl/guides said something else (?)

[limber lion]

These are all fine, including IcyVeins:

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[limber lion]

IV suggests Zoldyck because it's the most versatile one for most content. It's still best for M+ and AoE and it's used for many progression fights.

Doomblade is still generally the preferred legendary for raiding as it's the highest ST legendary and I'm pretty sure it's mentioned in IV as well.

[shut panther]

Yeah, got it

Do you know any vids with tips and stuff about assa? I just changed spec from outlaw. Its my first time playing assa, but it seems more fun

Just want to learn as mich as possible

[limber lion]

JustRuss has a pretty well put together video about Assa.

It should give you a good starting point

After that you should start practicing it, taking it into raid and then coming here for log review where we can give you some pointers on what to improve on.

All of the guides are filled with great information, as well as the pins in this channel

[shut panther]

Got it, boss! I will check it out

Oh, havent check it yet

[limber lion]

If you ever have a question, you should read the pins. If the answer's not there, look at a guide. If it's not there, you can ask about it here.

[shut panther]

Ok, thank you for your time

[limber lion]

My pleasure.

[shell ivy]

https://i.imgur.com/vaerItg.png

o__o

sbs first?

[stoic needle]

Sure

[fleet anchor]

Yes

[stoic needle]

Since we have cttc now the number of cp you use to get up snd doesn't matter a ton

And sbs is a cheap builder that hits hard

[fleet anchor]

SBS crits do quite a bit of damage and this is not a case where some of the mutilate edge cases on CP gen matter

[shell ivy]

actually ye does make sense now

[fleet anchor]

You get a couple extra ticks in this way as well

[shell ivy]

true

[balmy condor]

you stay the hell away from my mutilate ambush nonsense

this is an ambush free zone

[fleet anchor]

Also I am Necrolord now as of yesterday so

All hail Necro gang

[stoic needle]

You avoid energy starving with sbs

[fleet anchor]

I also just found 0.5% for Heirmir so I think I have it within 1% of Venthyr now

[stoic needle]

[fleet anchor]

(Prioritizing SBS charge dumps during the Gemstone buff)

[shell ivy]

same

[stoic needle]

I'm switching as soon as sludgefist dies

[fleet anchor]

I will say that Necro/Crimson Tempest AoE as Assassination is pretty fun

[stoic needle]

Maybe even before who knows

[fleet anchor]

I don't think it beats Outlaw still but it is quite a lot of damage lol

The only issue I have with it so far is that Outlaw with SBS/MfD is kinda overwhelming at times. I need to find a better strategy for managing it.

Don't think it helps that this week is explosive...there is a lot going on

In that way Assassination is a little more straightforward without MfD

[stoic needle]

I was thinking about it and it seems like just using MfD on cd on your focus target and trying to snipe with sbs since it does damage might be good

[limber lion]

We're converting them one by one. First Seli, now Koji.

[subtle kiln]

welcome to the party pal

[stoic needle]

I don't wanna be stinky

[fleet anchor]

lol I wouldn't say I'm a convert

To Assassination AoE

I think Outlaw is probably still quite a bit better in keys 😛

[stoic needle]

It's so fun

[fleet anchor]

Especially since SBS Flurries

[limber lion]

It's okay

[subtle kiln]

run deeper instead of mfd

[limber lion]

You'll join us eventually.

Seli already said that he believes that Assa deals more damage in several m+ dungeons

But Outlaw just has more utility

[fleet anchor]

I might run some keys as Assassination next week just for fun to compare a little better

[limber lion]

It's a lot of fun, ngl.

I play Venthyr though, so it's not as optimal.

[subtle kiln]

assa sbs in keys is fun

[limber lion]

I dream of Necro, looks a lot of fun

[fleet anchor]

Necro is definitely fun

Like for solo stuff I was just running NS+MA leggo so I can one-shot shitters with SBS from stealth

It's basically the same thing as Sub Shadowstrikes lol

[subtle kiln]

i had the same issues with outlaw mfd. deeper sbs just makes me smile

[arctic walrus]

@fleet anchor can you elaborate on the spike dump during buff

[fleet anchor]

I think I just need to macro them together tbh because SBS actually is ideally cast on the shortest living targets

The same as MfD

[arctic walrus]

or just straight up use save charges until you get the buff and dumb 2/3

[fleet anchor]

Just with a modifier

Instead of two different binds

I'll figure something out 😄

[fleet anchor]

Just dumping chargest in ST when the buff is up rather than when you're about to cap or whatever

[stoic needle]

Yeah mouse button for sbs/MfD seems like a good way to handle it

[fleet anchor]

Doesn't seem to be much better time to do it

[limber lion]

My MFD bind is kinda aids for that sort of thing.

Shift + 3

[balmy condor]

shift spacebar tho

[stoic needle]

That's vanish

[subtle kiln]

how do i uppercase space then ?

[balmy condor]

toggle caps lock obviously cmon

[subtle kiln]

shit you right

but caps is ptt

[swift zinc]

Best assassin guide?

[limber lion]

[arctic walrus]

for shit like cleave/add spawns you would dump normally though?

[limber lion]

interesting.

[stoic needle]

So you let yourself overcap on charges so you have 2/3 for when the gemstone buff is up, or you treat it like dance charges and use it when you'd overcap except if the buff will be up soon?

[limber lion]

They're all great.

You're welcome

Very helpful

[swift zinc]

Oh ok good to know

[balmy condor]

@fleet anchor creme or custard donuts?

[stoic needle]

Custard donuts

[balmy condor]

www.google.com
assassination guide 9.0.5 big deeps how to play wow good
noxxic.com/assassination-rogue
hmmmmm

HMMMMMMM

[limber lion]

I was actually referring to the guides at !guide

Okay

Need to be more specific next time

[arctic walrus]

@marble hemlock was just a prank bro

[shy dust]

📈

[limber lion]

DON'T look at Youtube/Twitch guides.
DO use the guides posted in here, made by the CF's of RH.

[stone pilot]

We should pin that

[balmy condor]

nah

just use brain

[stoic needle]

That's asking a lot, whispyr

[limber lion]

Yeh, brain goes a long way

[stoic needle]

That's gonna have people fok on 3t

[echo geyser]

does CT count towards the doomblade lego effect?

[limber lion]

Yes

[echo geyser]

[low girder]

vers

[balmy condor]

That’s part of why it sims so good against poison bomb fucking bullshit ct single target

[low girder]

BfA vers

[balmy condor]

grumble grumble

[echo geyser]

wait is CT the default ST pick for raids then?

[low girder]

doomblade ct single target sims lower than zoldyck ct though

[shy dust]

no

its pb

[echo geyser]

ah alright

[low girder]

just run dashing and you'll never have to worry about ct single target

[balmy condor]

It just sims scarily close, and there’s an argument to be made for movement heavy fights

[low girder]

idk with doomblade for me the gap was fairly large

[echo geyser]

if u are necro doomblade is default raid lego tho right?

[low girder]

it's the default for everyone really

[echo geyser]

[stoic needle]

Dashing p good too

[carmine token]

talents for slg? whats best for 2 targets, CT?

[shut panther]

So necro > venthyr?

[fleet anchor]

Nah I didn't put in anything that specified overcapping but if you follow this logic I don't think you should ever deal with the cap anyway

Since the buff happens every minute

You're already -1 charge from the opener so it's pretty hard to cap if you are just dumping during crit buff

[stoic needle]

That makes sense. I think I'm overestimating how quickly they recharge

[limber lion]

As another thing, I'm guessing it's widely accepted that the pull timer is around 10s and forcing MFD at 28s before pulling on the sim is a dummy thing to do @fleet anchor

[fleet anchor]

Uhh yeah

[limber lion]

Because on 3 mins MFD pulls ahead by 120+ dps by forcing a longer pull timer.

Works pretty well on log runs :^)

[fleet anchor]

Wouldn't the CP decay before then?

[limber lion]

No

You lose 2 CP

[fleet anchor]

Thought the decay was 20s

Ah ok

[limber lion]

No, it's 1CP per 10s

And with CTTC you never have to press it again

MFD at 28s, SnD at 2s

[fleet anchor]

I put 10s in the APL as the default value, I don't think we'll change that too much anyway

[limber lion]

Yeh figured as much

It's a dumb thing for sure

And not a realistic thing to happen :p

No one wants to sit through 30s of pull timers

Even 20s was rough back in BFA with Font of Power

[low girder]

no ty leave 8.3 behind

fucking fire mages

[glacial crypt]

Anyone mind going through an assa log for me and telling me what I've done wrong? 😄

Rather, with me

[limber lion]

Yeah, makes sense. No good reason to do that tbh.

Are you aware of the bug with MFD/SnD and talent swapping? It's nothing major, but it allows you to start a raid encounter with Vigor/DS and with SnD running before pulling.

[fleet anchor]

Yeah I mean think you have always been able to do that

[limber lion]

Ye

It's just much better and more abusable currently with CTTC, but nothing major tbh. Slightly faster opener rotation yay

@gloomy fern Apparently the PI's are just a logging error from Blizzard's side (again).

Where the logs don't handle overlapping PI's very well.

I figured as much, but they just seemed very weird because the overlaps extend to both directions. Like if A applies PI at 30s, B applies PI at 59s, I could see the log suggest that the PI used by A would last from 30 to 79s because B pretty much "extends" the PI by 20s, but it's even more of a mess than that.

[limber lion]

Yeah sure thing, just post it here and we'll take a look.

[thorny rose]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[dark token]

you guys prefer doomblade or zoldyck for m+ out of curiosity

in my testing doomblade actually seems to do more

[glacial crypt]

here you are, didn't see this - sorry! https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/YjZ7yzqx2TQ1a9AV#fight=12&type=damage-done

From what I've gathered I wasted 20+ combo points, which is something I'll need to just practice the spec more for

[balmy condor]

Most of that overcap is seal fate which is actually fine

The shiv overcap is the concerning part

[dark token]

arent you supposed to overcap cp if you are at 5 and shiv come off cd

[balmy condor]

Yes but usually not to that extent

60% cp overcapping on shiv usually means that they’re holding shiv for something

And you’ll tell that there’s 10 casts of shiv in 5:20ish

In that time, I would normally expect to see 13

So that’s most likely waiting for high cp to go into a shiv window, then holding shiv as a consequence of that, and missing shiv casts

The good part for you, @glacial crypt, is that’s the only really blaring issue in your gameplay

The other part that’s a little questionable is your choice in talents and soulbinds

Double potency theotar probably doesn’t sim higher than duelist nadjia

And I would be very impressed if deeper doesn’t sim higher

[plain jetty]

hey how does recuperator interact with cut to the chase?

[balmy condor]

Pins

[plain jetty]

F

[glacial crypt]

Yes, I normally try to get 4 - 5 CP and pool to around 70energy before shiv

[glacial crypt]

Thisd is because I mainspec outlaw during transitioning to Assa, once I get get 31 renown I'll be swapping everything over

[sudden hound]

no reason to hold onto the button for this. if it lines up at those cp its fine, but your just want uptime on the shiv debuff

[brave vector]

This logs a bit old but it’s the last hungering one I have and I figure that’s as close to patchwerk as we got this tier, could anyone take a look through and see if I’m making any glaring mistakes? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/HCxvPVBhq8X3ytQc#fight=9&type=damage-done

[glacial crypt]

I saw people in logs getting 2 4-5 CP envenoms during Shiv debuff and just rotating normally afterwards despite the shiv debuff still being up but, that's just because your dots may be running out around that time, right?

[sudden hound]

typically just the amount of envenoms you can reliably get into the 9s window.

[shy meteor]

when u use KS in the MA buff - can you use it when the buff is 1 second left and does the crit apply to the whole duraiton of KS, or do you to have the buff up for the whole KS

[shell ivy]

if I’m not wrong KS “animation” takes 2s so u should save 2s for KS and fill 2 other GCD

Also #outlaw

[balmy condor]

You should aim to just hit shiv on cooldown, and if you fit 2 envenoms, so be it, and if you hit 1, so be it

@glacial crypt

[glacial crypt]

So is pooling not a massive thing?

[balmy condor]

Pooling is a thing

The amount of envenoms isn’t

Generally not pooling isn’t going to make or break anything though

Rule for pooling is the same as it has been, just pool until ~30 from max, before every non-empowered envenom (shiv/vend/flag/sludge pillars/etc)

[stoic needle]

We simmed pooling vs not pooling and it was like 30 dps

[wary ice]

we said 1 garrote is enough spread bleeding on the off targets of council?

anything more was a damage loss right?

[stoic needle]

garotte and rupture

we resimmedit

[wary ice]

so just keep double bleeds up ezpz

[stoic needle]

@limber lion @shy dust are some IQD WAs better than others? which ones do you use?

ye its not that bad but council is still a shitshow lol

[wary ice]

yeah just had the pull of a lifetime on artificer

ezpz6/10

[stoic needle]

gz!

[shy dust]

Gz

[wary ice]

<3tyty

[carmine token]

so, ran CT for SLG (and eb) and was curious what the priority system is at that point. Should I be garrott, rupture, and CT both primary and secondary target at all times? I didn't seem to get a lot of envenoms off because I was always refreshing CT

I ran it super sloppily, and overcapped a lot, and had other issues ,but i was just mainly curious how I should handle CT stacks

[lost mist]

What i do is garrote main, CT, cp fill, rupture 2nd, garrote 2nd, CT and back to main

[stoic needle]

yes you should maintain all bleeds on primary and secondary targets including CT. that's just the nature of CT though, you have less envenom casts

[carmine token]

Got it, just making sure there was nothing strange about it

[lost mist]

Just try to mantain garr+rupt+ct on both targets, and if u can dot the not priority skirmisher to gain some energy

[fleet anchor]

You should apply bleeds until around 20 energy regen/sec then you can prioritize multi-target CT over cleave Rupture applications

[wary ice]

is that 20 e/s from Vim or just in general?

[fleet anchor]

Total, including that

Which will depend on your haste levels and lust and such

Possible to reach that with only two bleeds potentially

[wary ice]

yeah i was thinking that

[carmine token]

is there a good WA for energy regen/sec? Didn't even think that could be a metric i could track

[cerulean nest]

is there a way in Elvui target aura bars to basically only show specific dots

[brave vector]

how much of a dps loss is it if you were to miss pandemic on your garr and rup?

like every single one over a 5 min fight

[balmy condor]

Should be a filter section

[balmy condor]

Depends by how much you’re missing them

If you’re letting it drop for like 1 second each time

Probably not an earth shattering amount

[brave vector]

yeah thats what i mean, if i were to just wait until they fell off and then immediately reapplied with the next 2 gcds

but probably not huge, got it

[balmy condor]

Yeah if it happens a couple times it won’t kill you

But if it becomes a regular thing, those 2 gcd’s add up

[upbeat needle]

Hey guys I'm just coming back to rogue after a few years maining different things. Currently main a 1.6k io DK. I do all forms of content, PVP, High Keys, and Mythic Raid. What Cov and spec should I run for my rogue?

[brave vector]

whichever you enjoy the most 😉

all the rogue covenants are pretty close to each other, with i think the only huge outlier being necro being fairly ahead in m+, and you probably dont want to play outlaw in pvp. only real advice i got

[stoic needle]

depends on your definition of high keys, but sin works for everything up until like +20s without an extraordinary amount of effort

definitely echo the necro for keys recommendation though

[normal spoke]

guys... quick q... did they fix Theotar's Token of Appreciation conduit and the stealth issue?

[wary ice]

no

as of 4/7

[rapid stratus]

use flag on CD or wait for vendetta?

[slow marsh]

sync unless you'll lose a cast

[normal spoke]

i would think use flag once dots are up for better energy regen while you are tryin to get more cps used

[stoic needle]

flag before rupture

vend>flag>rup

[regal chasm]

Tried some dungeons with NS MA. Don't think I'm really doing more damage than usual garrotte build (they sim pmuch the same after all) but it makes opening on packs a lil less hectic, especially as necro

The frustrating thing about it is when pulling separate packs n having to wait an extra 2-3s to open

[gritty spoke]

if you're playing venth in m+, is lashing scars or poisoned katar the better play with theotar (dropping token of apprec because of stealth break)

[balmy condor]

Lashing

Lashing is just crazy

[warped temple]

lashing

nuts

[wicked harbor]

Hey, which covenant is recommended for swichting between assasin and outlaw for m+?

[stiff vine]

how come many top rogues playing elab planning over blindside? (m sludge progging)

[balmy condor]

Necro

[balmy condor]

Vigor/ep is better for pillar damage

[vestal wren]

necro is rly good on sludge

[willow eagle]

Because of lbe?

[vestal wren]

you can use sbs on pillow

whats rly good

[shy dust]

But how does that compare

To

FLAGELLATION

[vestal wren]

good question, i have no idea

but necro in general would be my prefered choice given how well it works in non pure st

[plucky isle]

i think venthyr is the easier covenant if i'm not mistaken?

[vestal wren]

not sure

possibly kyrian

but i don't think that easy of use is a metric that is relevant when comparing covenants

[plucky isle]

i mean you have less buttons to press as a venthyr

[lapis fulcrum]

Are u playing sin in m+ or switching to outlaw? And what legend?

[vestal wren]

huh, why is that?

every covenant gives you an additional button to press

[plucky isle]

i mean you have multiple stacks of bone spike which you have to spread to different targets

[vestal wren]

its still only one additional key

[plucky isle]

true

[vestal wren]

if it comes to frequency, you will use sbs a lot more

[balmy condor]

Most people stick to outlaw, sin uses zoldyck in keys

[lapis fulcrum]

Ty 4 answer

And in raid doom?

[balmy condor]

Yes

[torn atlas]

Yeah I find the build quite fun, even though my dam is about equal. Feel like this week is a definite Zold week though if your team doesn't have enough soothes.

[balmy condor]

The damage shouldn’t really be more

Just comparable

Just BTW

[lapis fulcrum]

But i think outlaw is weak against boss

[balmy condor]

It’s really not that much weaker than sin

The difference between sin and outlaw in single target in raids is basically wiped out by the fact that we take suboptimal talents in m+

And outlaw doesn’t really

[lapis fulcrum]

What talents do u mean?

[balmy condor]

Ep is worse than blindside

Vigor/mfd usually worse than deeper

Ct is worse than Pb

Zoldyck is worse than doomblade

You’re probably easily losing 5% in single target by taking m+ stuff

[lapis fulcrum]

I thought sin got suboptimal and outlaw got only 2 choises, st only or aoe only, nothing between

[balmy condor]

?

Outlaw’s aoe is entirely dependent on its single target

That’s how flurry works

If you do more single target, you will flurry more aoe

[lapis fulcrum]

Yeah i know, I thought ideal talents 😂

Nvm its ok

[marble hemlock]

another factor is that bossfights in mythic+ generally arent very great for a 2minute cd class

as fights very rarely last longer than 2 minutes

SL dungeon bossfights are kinda designed around not lasting very long, and if they do you cut down the pulltime by getting pride before it/saving BL for it

so you rarely get a second vendetta, which would be really amazing when playing zoldyck, but it only happens on a few bosses 😦

so assa st in m+ isnt actually all that amazing. still solid ofc, but not to the point where youre "carrying st"

[limber lion]

Ah, I just used the most downloaded one from Wago. Works just fine.

[limber lion]

Went to bed already, but Whispyr got you. 😎

[hollow escarp]

is it the one that predicts the buff?

[limber lion]

Predicts the effect that's about to happen from pressing it.

[hollow escarp]

well, you can decide to wait or not

[limber lion]

Yes

That's why you get the wa

You don't press IQD on cooldown.

[gray tundra]

anyone know secondary stats effect bone spike?

[hollow escarp]

Cuddle posting logs with me dying

[junior pulsar]

Do you use crimson tempest on ST aswell

[hollow escarp]

outside of shiv, yes

[junior pulsar]

Nice

[stiff vine]

does double oil work? is this what should use, am on sludge

or 1 oil 1 stone

[limber lion]

Didn't even notice

[hollow escarp]

my last xymox kill for a while

[gloomy fern]

Melee guild

[glacial crypt]

LMAO yw ❤️ ❤️ last raid w/ you on monday

[hollow escarp]

already leaving?

[glacial crypt]

Back to Inner Sanctum, their second team needs help with SLG prog

[hollow escarp]

gonna be a long ride

[gloomy fern]

is it time to get a cube

[misty holly]

This is why I go for half and half with those talents so as to be suboptimal at both. :bigbrain:

[gray tundra]

anyone know secondary stats effect bone spike?

[hollow escarp]

mastery for sin

unless it changed since 9.0.5 ptr

[limber lion]

Yes, what KoJack said and you can crit with it as well.

[hazy crater]

and ticks are hasted

[obtuse ruin]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[obtuse ruin]

what soulbind are rogues playing for m+ in necro?

[limber lion]

Heirmir with gemstone

[gloomy fern]

@limber lion u can actually prepot with refined palate and swap over nadja

[limber lion]

Holy fuck

[gloomy fern]

then phantom will be better no matter the rng i guess

cant be unlucky for a min

[hollow escarp]

isn't phantom 30 sec though?

nvm, it also lasts longer

[limber lion]

Not with Refined Palate

:^)

[gloomy fern]

so 40s pulltimer for 3cp snd also and be able to swap nadja and we blastin

can u macro theo-> nadja swap somehow

[hollow escarp]

you can also use the dance trinket before pull to get the haste buff

[gloomy fern]

oh palate actually better than i thought , was 100-200% was thinking only double

just dont let rae know about this

[winter vapor]

is there a general level of key where Zold pulls ahead somewhat of Doomblade? I appreciate I could be using MA but I felt I didnt get much benefit on packs compared to what I was losing on single target (im sub 10 keys mostly atm, but getting to all 10 in short order hopefully)

I'm assuming fortified makes it a better pick also

[limber lion]

Generally Doomblade is always pretty bad in m+.

It doesn't get any value in packs whatsoever because you don't have time to mutilate/envenom and you don't want to Envenom on more than 3 targets anyways.

Zoldyck is the go-to for most dungeons, the MA build with Nightstalker is pretty good in lower level keys but you should play with both and go with the one you like

[winter vapor]

hmm, I shall give it a go, I guess the wisdom if mobs die quicker - MA, last for longer Zoldyck is the go to?

[obtuse ruin]

with MA NS do you try and always open with CT on packs?

[limber lion]

Yeah pretty much, MA gains more value from packs that die quickly.

[obtuse ruin]

either saving combos or mfd beforre pull

[limber lion]

Yes.

Yup.

[obtuse ruin]

gotcha

[limber lion]

On 1-2T you would MFD - Rupture instead.

[winter vapor]

cheers for the input, only actually to manage getting Zoldyk this week given coldhearts been elusive

[limber lion]

Just for future reference, you can actually farm any of the Torghast legendary drops from Twisting Corridors.

So you don't actually have to wait for 5 weeks just to see the floor with your legendary.

[winter vapor]

oh, neat, I didnt know that

would've unlocked it sooner xD

[hollow escarp]

iirc, you get the same layer in each 6 corridor set?

[limber lion]

You can walk in and out of Twisting Corridors to reset the first floor to your liking

Then you just clear up to the boss, kill it and reset.

[weak talon]

Is there any way to dispell my bonespike from dummy?

[gusty mirage]

Outrange it and it should go away, but for some reason it still counts toward the CP bonespike generates even if the dot is off of it

[fathom swift]

my rogue got every piece of loot i still needed from the raid this week whats the point of even playing the game anymore

[hollow escarp]

have fun?

[limber lion]

[fathom swift]

getting loot is fun

the only upgrade i can get is a 226 phial from my weekly cache

[subtle kiln]

complaining about getting loot in SL. now i’ve heard it all.

[fathom swift]

yeah what do i do for the next 4 months before the next tier comes out

[subtle kiln]

go find a tissue to dry your tears

[limber lion]

Push m+, improve your logs or play a different game.

[fathom swift]

playing a different game sounds good tbh

[limber lion]

That's what most people do nowadays.

They log on to do their weekly m+, open the vault and raid.

[hollow escarp]

WoW is also an mmorpg, a virtual world, the game is not all about gearing your character

[limber lion]

And that's it.

[fathom swift]

sure, people enjoy doing other stuff, but i only enjoy killing prog bosses and getting gear, so im kinda out of content for a while

[lethal heart]

join new guild on your alt and progress with them

[fathom swift]

already do splits

[lethal heart]

[gusty mirage]

Idk push for CE, push for gladiator, tmog farm, collect transmogs and rare mounts, push IO, play the AH, level an alt and do it again, log out and come back in 9.1. Your options are limitless

Play some apex, change it up a bit

[fathom swift]

yeah ill just level alts then play another game probably but

it was mostly a rhetorical question to begin with

[gusty mirage]

I’m gearing a vdh to push keys with when I get bored of my rogue and I’ve been having a blast with it

[sick scarab]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/d3KzHh2QW8b3gi8JGgEx4w
do you guys suggest to go IQD or no ?

also shadowgrasp totem is nice LOL

[hollow escarp]

IQD is underrated

but depends on fight

I try to use it whenever I can

[hazy crater]

IQD also Sims less than it should on 5min sims since its not being synced with vendetta

[sick scarab]

but the execute is passive or it is an effect on use ?

never used it so i dont have a clue

[hollow escarp]

you want a self macro to avoid using the execute use

I use something like this

I could put it in Vendetta macro, but I prefer having a separate button for it

I know there is another way to do it but forgot the line

@ player or something

[sick scarab]

and why i have to do this ? execute is bad ?ù

[hollow escarp]

yeah, it's like 2 envenoms

you want stats in execute phase as well

[sick scarab]

ah

[frosty cedar]

my second use always give healer mana sadge

[hollow escarp]

same for me on some bosses

[sick scarab]

this should work

/use [@player,nodead,noharm]13

[frosty cedar]

wot does that do mate?

[hollow escarp]

you do not execute the boss

[sick scarab]

targhet you when you use trinket in slot 13

[hollow escarp]

but use it on yourself for stats

[wet ruin]

can the IQD still proc heal or mana if you target yourself

[sick scarab]

you put iqd in 13 and gg

[hollow escarp]

yes

it can still do that

but at least you won't waste it on 30k damage on boss

[wet ruin]

yea, I guess

[sick scarab]

mm

#showtooltip Vendetta
/cast [nomod]Sepsis
/use [nomod,@player,nodead,noharm]14
/cast [mod:shift]Sepsis
/cast [mod:shift]Vendetta
/use [mod:shift,@player,nodead,noharm]14

seems to work

[hollow escarp]

have you tested on low hp mobs?

[sick scarab]

going now

seems to not execute

[hollow escarp]

[simple gulch]

Zoldyck on which slot?

[hollow escarp]

legs

[simple gulch]

Haste/crit right?

[dawn merlin]

can also cleartarget and targetlasttarget with IQD

[sick scarab]

we just want the stats right ?

[hollow escarp]

yep

[amber quail]

!macro

[elder crest]

I'm very confused about the use of this macro, can someone enlighten the noob?

[hollow escarp]

the IQD macro?

[elder crest]

I guess yeah

[hollow escarp]

it's so IQD won't proc execute on a low HP boss, and give you stats instead

[elder crest]

so stats outweigh the damage?

[hollow escarp]

yes

[elder crest]

hmmm thank you I was so lost

[autumn field]

Curious why do we mutilate out of stealth instead of ambushing out of stealth when running MA talent for ST? Ambush should objectively deal more damage and I can't wrap my head around it.

Is it just for the higher combo point generation to SnD? Because even with a 2 combo point SnD it wouldn't fall off before refreshing in rotation.

[timid coral]

!mut

[prisma monolith]

Ambush is currently only used from blindside/sepsis proc, not from stealth.
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3).
Some other factors to consider are increased poison applications, blindside, and doomblade. This is true for all talent combinations and legendaries.

[dark crag]

Ambush is a bit more ability dmg when you only look at ambush vs muti that way, but muti has so many extra things tied to it

Iike the command said

[simple gulch]

is it a bad idea to make zoldyck on feet

my legs are 213

its an alt

[dark crag]

Buy 213 crit haste boots in ah

Craft pants

[simple gulch]

Dont think so

[gloomy fern]

ye buy 226

[simple gulch]

its expensive

i dont wanna buy it

[limber lion]

I meam it's fine. It's not optimal in the end

[simple gulch]

Why not?

[limber lion]

But if you don't care for that, then go for it.

Because legs give more stats than boots.

At 235 ilvl you get more stats and thus more value out of legs than boots.

[simple gulch]

100k gold for boots eh

[dark crag]

For 226?

[simple gulch]

yeah

[dark crag]

Thats cheap

[gloomy fern]

and bis

[stoic needle]

Yeah that's dirt cheap

[dark crag]

Bought mine a few weeks ago for 190k. Now they were around 300k again

[limber lion]

I paid 70k

Kek

[stoic needle]

Boots were 300k on my old server

[simple gulch]

Well, its just an alt so i dont really see the char getting much ilvl

[stoic needle]

I got mine for free

[dark crag]

I also sold 2 boots for around 280k each

[limber lion]

But yeh, it probably doesn't matter then. Just choose whichever

[gloomy fern]

60k on my server

[dark crag]

When you discover an old gbank with 2.5 mio gold on an old bank char

[limber lion]

Yep, Kazzak overlords here.

[simple gulch]

i havent gotten a single hc/myhic boe

ive played since the beginning

[stoic needle]

I got 1 in a farm

Heroic

And then the mythic boots and ring in 1 mythic pug that only killed shriek and huntsman

[limber lion]

I've gotten plenty but only recently where they are already dirt cheap.

Like 15k for a cloak whoop exciting

[simple gulch]

ill just make boots

[limber lion]

Go for it

[simple gulch]

probably not that much of a difference

[limber lion]

I made boots as well.

No, not really.

You can always sim them in raidbots

[gloomy fern]

settling is for losers

[simple gulch]

Thanks for the helm

help

[limber lion]

Happy to helm

🪖

[simple gulch]

[stoic needle]

Ur gonna regret it when you see how fun rogue is and switch mains

[simple gulch]

Doubt

Even if i do

i wont regret it

[stoic needle]

That's what they all say

[frail fossil]

i mean what's ur main ?

[simple gulch]

Not everyone cares about a 0000000.1% dps increase

[limber lion]

It's quite a bit more, but yeh

Point still stands.

[simple gulch]

Im a fury warrior

[fallen current]

Tuesday I’ll have enough ash to finally craft zold

[stoic needle]

[limber lion]

[simple gulch]

Its my main but I dont really play much

[frail fossil]

do i recraft doomblade on hands

or do i craft zold

[fallen current]

I mean I could craft it now, but not at 235.

[limber lion]

Zold

[simple gulch]

I couldnt get into a raiding guild because I had trouble getting into one as warrior and being deaf

partially deaf

this tier

[gloomy fern]

everyone needs a war though

[simple gulch]

Im raiding with my friends guild

hes on kazzak

im on draenor

couldnt before because there wasnt cross realm

[simple gulch]

Everyone needs one warr

I reckon its not hard to get one warrior per guild

lmao

[fallen current]

No more. No less.

[simple gulch]

Im kinda switching to lock right now i guess

[stoic needle]

Doomblade shoulders keeping you from the venthyrless 7k sim

[simple gulch]

ive been playing less and less warrior

[frail fossil]

die

[simple gulch]

I find lock fun

rogue is fun too but not as much as lock

and fury

[frail fossil]

6.860K sim

[simple gulch]

imo

[frail fossil]

soontm

[simple gulch]

What is it

[stoic needle]

Once I get boe bracers and a necklace upgrade I'll be 7k

[simple gulch]

So what exactly made sin back on track

i remember it wasnt doing well pre 9.0/5

[stoic needle]

Pretty much everything about us got buffed

[simple gulch]

.5

[stoic needle]

20% cumulative aura buffs

[simple gulch]

is it doomblade

[stoic needle]

Cttc

[simple gulch]

\too

[stoic needle]

All legendaries buffed

Bug fixes

[simple gulch]

I see

What leggo would you like to play

the non competitive ones

I would like to play greenskin on outlaw

Deadshot

[gloomy fern]

no legy rly change anything for sin

[stoic needle]

None of the sin legendaries are particularly 'fun'

Doomblade makes envenoms big

[simple gulch]

Doomblade is interesting

[stoic needle]

Dashing scoundrel is kinda cool too

[simple gulch]

Wait thats the 4p from antorus

or 2p

oh yeah that makes sense

the name

[fallen current]

Greenskin for big pistolas

[stoic needle]

Because it makes the evenom you cast to get the buff crit 15% more and makes Poison bomb also crit 15% more

[simple gulch]

:GachiHYPER

[fallen current]

🔫

[simple gulch]

Poison Bomb in Legion

😳

[stoic needle]

Poison bomb is a sad shell of it's former self now

[simple gulch]

Very little difference between Dashing and doomblade in ST

[simple gulch]

100%

[stoic needle]

Yeah, the main differences are that doomblade's dot double dips from. % damage increases like sludgefist pillar

[frail fossil]

tbf it's rly funny when u see other specs last row and assa last row

assa last row is so bad

[stoic needle]

And that dashing is slightly better in cleave/aoe

[simple gulch]

Which spec has the best last row?

[stoic needle]

Because poisons are uncapped, and the extra energy is pretty decent

Sins last row is like a human rights violation

[simple gulch]

lmao

[stoic needle]

Idk I guess outlaw?

[simple gulch]

I wouldnt be surprised if you use crimson on ST for doomblade

lmao

[stoic needle]

Ks and br are both really good

[frail fossil]

i mean it's nothing insane

[stoic needle]

You don't unfortunately

[simple gulch]

😦

[stoic needle]

Comparatively to sin and sub they're really good

[frail fossil]

fortunately

i dont wanna play crimson in st

no cap

[simple gulch]

Depends on the person

[hollow escarp]

same

[simple gulch]

I guess

[stoic needle]

With zoldyck actually crimson tempest is very close to pb so it's a decent pick for fights with adds

Crimson on st is fun

[hollow escarp]

it's to low duration dot to maintain

[stoic needle]

Give me all the dots man

[hollow escarp]

it feels bad

[frail fossil]

i mean it's a low duration dot

less envenom

[simple gulch]

poison bomb is useless

holy fuck

[hollow escarp]

if CT was less damage and longer duration, I wouldn't mind it

[simple gulch]

can that get removed

[hollow escarp]

no

[stoic needle]

I don't really care about the duration

[hollow escarp]

it's our only uncapped ability

[simple gulch]

Outside of rogue I think a really strong last row is destro lock

channel demonfire, and dark soul

📈

[stoic needle]

Poisons are technically uncapped

[frail fossil]

i mean like DH last row

demonic and momentum

is p spicy too

[hollow escarp]

no, because you apply them using other abilities

it's like saying dots are aoe

because you do aoe damage

as in damage to multiple enemies

[stoic needle]

Yeah but I mean they still have no cap

[simple gulch]

true

shadow priest too

all have their uses

[stoic needle]

It's not hard to fok and poison 20 mobs

[simple gulch]

Does anyone wish we had a better aoe spender

[subtle kiln]

no

[hollow escarp]

that's 3 abilities

not 1

[stoic needle]

Fok and poison is 2

[subtle kiln]

assa st and cleave. or dot spreader in aoe. it’s more than enough

[hollow escarp]

we are not affected that much by aoe cap because we do damage with dots, but dots are not aoe

[stoic needle]

It's a stretch to even call poison an ability since it's passive

[subtle kiln]

no spec should do everything

[frail fossil]

assa doesn't need any more things to work well so yeah who cares last row is kinda oof

[simple gulch]

tbh theres somecs that excel in aoe and st

some specs*

[hollow escarp]

exactly, it didn't change since BFA, and nobody really cares

[simple gulch]

[stoic needle]

Sin is the least affected by the cap of all the rogue specs

[frail fossil]

like as long as sin do big dam it's irrelevant

[simple gulch]

is FoK capped?

[frail fossil]

and sin def did big dam in BFA and does now

[hollow escarp]

8 targets

[simple gulch]

oh

thats not bad

you only use tot apply poisons

[hollow escarp]

not at all

[simple gulch]

anyway

lmao

[hollow escarp]

there are very few situations where you have more than 8 targets

[simple gulch]

and build combo points

I guess

[hollow escarp]

yep

[stoic needle]

Yeah

[simple gulch]

I remember seeing a lot of sub rogues at the release

[stoic needle]

I think seli said that once we have access to more crit from gear pb+dashing will be solid for aoe

[simple gulch]

now they are nowhere to be found

[stoic needle]

[simple gulch]

[fallen current]

Rip outlaw massive cleave from bfa

[simple gulch]

I dont think they have gotten any nerfs

[hollow escarp]

stop hating on sub, it was my refugee spec when assa was bad

[simple gulch]

oof

5 target caps

[stoic needle]

I'm not hating on it I'm just mourning it's death

[simple gulch]

[fallen current]

Time to cleave 30 mobs

[stoic needle]

I played sub originally

[hollow escarp]

oh no, outlaw is so bad now

[fallen current]

[simple gulch]

I think 5 target cap is so unnecessary for outlaw

[subtle kiln]

doesn’t need nerfs when its bad

[simple gulch]

Id put 8 cap

since its their only aoe button

[fallen current]

It’s not.

BR is a thing.

[frail fossil]

let's be very clear

[simple gulch]

i know its not not but thats the main damage

[fallen current]

It’s uncapped.

[frail fossil]

outlaw problem

is not being capped

monk, hunter, warrior and stuff is capped

[simple gulch]

warrior is uncapped?

[frail fossil]

nah i meant capped lol

[simple gulch]

lmao

fury has been capped since bfa

[fallen current]

[hollow escarp]

unironically, the thing I hate on outlaw is that it has sustained damage

cooldowns almost don't matter

[frail fossil]

like outlaw problem is not cap like

[fallen current]

Long arms best arms.

[simple gulch]

whats its problem?

[stoic needle]

Well every aoe spec can't be burst

[subtle kiln]

same as it always is

[stoic needle]

Some of them has to be sustained

[simple gulch]

I agree

[hollow escarp]

tbf yeah, we had blood of the enemy last patch

[simple gulch]

Fury is good sustain too, but their cds are pretty decent on aoe

they can use their cds every pack

which makes for a good overall

[frail fossil]

i mean i legit think outlaw has 0 design problems atm

[subtle kiln]

it has plenty

[frail fossil]

if it's weak in something it's cuz it's tuned low

[simple gulch]

I disagree, I think it needs the cap of 8 instead of 5 on BF

[hollow escarp]

the main rogue issue now is sub rogue

[frail fossil]

idk i dont find anything i dislike as outlaw tbf

[fallen current]

Sub

[frail fossil]

i dont care abt cap

[subtle kiln]

people have just gotten complacent with rtb

[hollow escarp]

you know they nerfed BF damage in beta by 120%?

[frail fossil]

old rtb was better i agree

[hollow escarp]

with 5 target cap

[simple gulch]

?

Im confuse

d

[frail fossil]

BF on use dmg yes

it was nerfed

[fallen current]

Blade flurry was nerfed hard in beta.

[simple gulch]

bf on use damage is barely anything

probably because of the nerf

[frail fossil]

cuz u would press it in ST, and u had a conduit that was omega broken and would make mastery our best stats

[simple gulch]

ah i know which one that is

[frail fossil]

that was nerfed in beta

[stoic needle]

Ambidexterity

[simple gulch]

yeah

[vernal steeple]

does numbing poison work at full effectiveness on bosses?

[stoic needle]

Imagine theotar ambidexterity outlaw

What could have been

[simple gulch]

I thin

[stoic needle]

Only the attack speed portion works but yes

[simple gulch]

imagine

they capped BF to 5 targets

[frail fossil]

but yeah like aoe cap is irrelevant in p much all raid bosses

so i dont rly care

[simple gulch]

and rtemoved the omega azerite trait

[frail fossil]

abt it

[simple gulch]

that was too far

one could have been enough

remove the azerite trait and leave target cap

😳

[frail fossil]

i mean u legit smoking if uthink outlaw specific problem is aoe cap, all aoe cap fucking blows but it is what it is

it's not exclusive to outlaw

[hollow escarp]

^

[simple gulch]

sure I guess

I still have not made the boots for zoldyck

i wanna know if its a big difference

[hollow escarp]

good

make legs

[simple gulch]

my legs are 213

boots are 190

[frail fossil]

u still make legs

cuz u will get better gear

[simple gulch]

or will i

[subtle kiln]

just buy 226 boots for 65k

[frail fossil]

i mean unless u never do anything on ur rogue yes u will lol

[simple gulch]

theyre 98k

not 65k

[subtle kiln]

sorry your sever sucks

[hollow escarp]

I bought mine for 130k gold but I had to replace the 207 boots I got on first world boss ever

[simple gulch]

yeah lmao

[subtle kiln]

still 98k

is nothing

[simple gulch]

not really for me

[fallen current]

Just stop being poor.

EZ

[stoic needle]

You can get 200 conquest voots

[simple gulch]

[subtle kiln]

stop spending your gold on hookers and blow

[stoic needle]

Or do the covenant campaign and get 197 boots

[charred wraith]

Stop being homeless, just buy a home

[stoic needle]

Doing legendaries based on what slot is the biggest upgrade is just a waste overall tbh

[fallen current]

You get it.

Unironically, legs would be the best slot for me anyways.

[limber lion]

Holy, I went away for 30minutes and there's like a hundred new messages

[fallen current]

Stop walking away.

[simple gulch]

I resurrected the channel

[limber lion]

Why can't #assassination always be this active?

[hollow escarp]

because there are the same 5 people talking and people are afraid

[simple gulch]

I am afraid of making boots

if its a 1% difference in damage

i dont care

[balmy condor]

[limber lion]

Sim it using 235 legs and 226 boots, and vice versa.

But like said

[balmy condor]

I don’t see how more crit would enable that

[limber lion]

If it's your alt, it probably won't matter that much

[stoic needle]

I don't want to misquote him but I think he doesn't like playing sin in keys very much with the levels of crit we have access to currently

[limber lion]

Correct

[hollow escarp]

well I do have Seli's crit level

[limber lion]

But how does crit levels affects the synergy of DS/PB

[hollow escarp]

34-36%

[stoic needle]

I don't think that it's 'pb dashing will do more damage than ct+zoldyck' but that it will be enough to make the build feel playable

[hollow escarp]

probably because DS is based on poison crits

nvm

the other way around

[limber lion]

But Seli plays DS with CT, not PB.

[hollow escarp]

he did a PB key with Dashing

I was afk for that one

[stoic needle]

Yes, he was specifically saying that there's not enough crit to make running pb worth it yet

[balmy condor]

Why is it not playable now

[stoic needle]

I'd guess you need more crit to make your poisons and pb do more damage to make up for the loss of ct

[hollow escarp]

he needs excuses to play outlaw

for the 1 energy regen on each poison crit?

[balmy condor]

[stoic needle]

@marble hemlock why did you say that dashing PB doesn't work yet again?

[brave vector]

That sounds like it’ll be horrible

[stoic needle]

Let's just ask instead of guessing

[hollow escarp]

he is probably sleeping

[stoic needle]

Whoops

[brave vector]

Tab targeting envenom in mass aoe to make PB have 15% crit on everything actually sounds terrible if that’s the play style

Unless it puts a buff on you

Not the mob

[stoic needle]

It's not just about pb it's also about deadly Poisons

It's a self buff

[obtuse valley]

So zoldyck and CT still basically the only viable build for m+ but scoundrel could be viable maybe with the next tiers gear or higher?